April 16, 2025 • 37 mins
In this episode of the Golf Fitness Bomb Squad, host Chris Finn welcomes Dr. JP Guidry, a physical therapist specializing in golf fitness. They discuss the importance of debunking myths in golf fitness, the differences between cash and insurance-based physical therapy, common injuries among golfers, particularly back pain, and the significance of load management and body awareness in preventing injuries. Dr. Guidry shares insights on evaluating golfers' physical limitations and the psychological aspects of managing pain and expectations in therapy. The conversation highlights the evolution of golf fitness training and the need for golfers to understand their bodies better. In this conversation, JP Guidry and Chris Finn discuss common misconceptions in golf training, emphasizing the importance of understanding the limitations of certain exercises and the need for a structured training and recovery plan. They highlight the significance of building physical capacity to enhance golf performance while debunking myths about quick fixes for swing faults. The discussion also covers the necessity of recovery and personalized training plans to accommodate individual schedules and goals.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Chris fit is ruiny the game, teaching these guys to
get bigger and stronger and faster, and we're gonna blade him.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Just a fantastic christ. He doesn't get old.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome to the Golf Fitness Bomb Squad. I'm your host,
Chris Finn and that song never gets old.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you, Caleb uh.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'm excited today we have a special guest with us.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
He is a friend of mine I've had for a
long time, been in the business together similar times, getting
getting rolling and you know, and he has been around
and he's honestly for those of listening who don't know him,
we'll make sure we share all of his contacts and
everything with you at the end. I think one of
my greatest respects for him is he speaks what he believes.
(00:50):
He speaks based on science and hence we get along.
So so, without further ado, I would love to welcome
doctor J. P.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Gidry on. It's super excited to have you on. Man.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yeah, Chris, thanks for having me. I'm glad to be
on have the opportunity to chat a little bit about
golf fitness and although maybe BS that goes on.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
There's no BS.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
The best thing in the world is to stand on
a bosuball and swing a golf club because that's going
to increase.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Your our output. Right.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It doesn't look like the golf swing. It's not helping you, right.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
That's I thought.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I just thought that was you know all you know, uh,
basically proven in all the research out there. But but
let's let's let's uh. I think that's one of the
reasons we call this the golf in this bombs. Guys
like to debunk drop you know, a lot of the myths,
drop some knowledge bombs. But before we get to that,
why don't you give you know, people listening who maybe
don't know you, aren't familiar with you, kind of a
little bit of a little bit of your history and
(01:44):
uh and kind of how you got to where you
are today.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
So my name's J. P. Gidry. I live in Mandeville, Louisiana,
where I own and operate Gidriy Golf and Sport. So
my background is I've got a doctor in physical therapy.
Started out in kind of general outpatient sports physical therapy.
Ended up taking a lesson about three or four years
into being a physical therapist from James Lights, who was
(02:10):
kind of part of all TPI when they were starting up,
and he was like, hey, man, you know you like golf.
You're pt they got this TPI thing. You know, this
is probably fifteen years ago. You know, I think you
ought to check it out, go get certified. And I'd
love to have he was teaching in the area. I'd
love to have somebody I could refer to. So I
did as he said, ended up getting Level one certified.
(02:31):
Had my own outpatient business at the time, and started
kind of doing some golf stuff on the side, and
as that grew, I ended up getting out of the
outpatient stuff and the insurance stuff and dealing with all
that and jumping into the golf stuff. And that's been
she's probably ten to twelve years that I've been focusing
solely on helping golfers hit it further, play without pain,
(02:52):
and just be able to get out on the course
as long as they live.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
All good things.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the cool things
for me is getting to talk to other physios, particularly
in the cash space, because obviously that's so that's the
space you're in. And you know, I think a lot
of a lot of people golfers clients like they just
don't understand the differences. And actually you've worked in both
of the insurance space and then cash base. What I'm curious,
(03:18):
like just for you, like, what have been some of
the differences that you've seen in terms of what you've
been able to do for people, you know, when your
cash versus when you're have the insurance handcuffs on as
they say, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
So obviously, look, I you know, I can use my
knowledge and expertise as I see fit, rather than some
guys sitting in an office you reading or yea right now,
it's yeah, right now, yeah, back then looking at you know,
diagnosis codes and saying all right, will you get eight
visits and that's all you're going to get? Versus that,
So we're you know, obviously we're sitting in front of
(03:52):
the human being, having conversations with them and understanding what
they need and how much they need and so taking
as you say, those hands us off and being able
to not even worry about that and just say, hey,
this is what you need to get to your goals.
This is what we're going to do for you. And
I don't have anybody overseeing me saying well, no, you know,
we're not going to give you twelve We're only going
(04:12):
to give you eight sessions, so you know, whatever that
may be. So, you know, that's been my you know,
it was always my frustration being in the insurance based model,
and then since I've kind of stepped away from that,
and it also it allows me to just be more
creative in how I use my knowledge, right, I mean,
you know, we're pets, you know, we're doctorates. Now we
(04:34):
can kind of talk about whether that's worth it or not.
But in the end, you know, I paid for an
extra year of school, so I might as well use
that name.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
So but you know, like you know, I think we
should be allowed to kind of help as many people
as we can and as many ways as we can,
you know, and get creative with that. You know, I
have my app and I can help people through that
and hybrid models and in person and kind of get
all these differ for ways to help people that the
cash model allows that you know, insurance, you know, wouldn't
(05:05):
really cover you know, a lot of that if I
was still in that insurance you know, base game if
you will.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Yeah, for sure, speaking of the game, I always remember you,
I'd be trying to rehab people. Back in the when
I was working in insurances, I was starting to be
for as golf and obviously work cash to at this
point you know, kind of always were. But when I
you know, to pay the bills for the kids and
the wife, you know, you do the outpatient thing while
you're building up the cash side. And I just always remember,
(05:33):
you didn't get a golfer in there because they erred.
I was in the golf and you rehab the injury,
and then you get them. You obviously want to get
them back to hitting balls and see how their body
reacts and making sure they're not having flare ups and whatnot, that.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
They have the you know, the capacity to play.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
And so we'd do some hitting or I'd have them
hit you know, range protocols or whatever. But I'd always
have to document it as increased activity is tolerated.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
It was never hit.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Golf balls thirty Do that like immediate denial?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Absolutely. You got to figure out that that speak, you know,
that language that they're looking for in those notes to
pay you, which is always.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
For sure, Well, what are you know, obviously being a
physical therapist and you know you're obviously working with golfers.
You know what what would you in your practice are
kind of like you know, the top one too, most
common injuries that you see with golfers, you know as
they come in to see it.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Yeah, I mean definitely as you probably know, low backs
you know above and beyond number one, and you know
in golf, but I think that's a lot of populations.
But you know, definitely in golfers. You know, uh, low
back is you know, heads and tails above any other complaint.
You know, probably elbow, shoulder I would see next, you
know on that list with that, you know, but with golf,
(06:49):
as we know, you know, it's it's more that repetitive nature.
So I kind of view it as simplifying it is
is most golf injuries. It's not contact and not getting tackled,
you typically falling down on the ground or anything. You know,
it's it's some combination of the body's inability to tolerate
the stress you put on it and then maybe that
(07:10):
golfer's inability to regulate the stress they're putting on it.
You know. But you know, you see it all the
time this time of year. You know, the golfer hadn't
swung a club in six months and then they go
out and hit one hundred balls every day and now
my elbow hurts.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
It's like, well yeah, now the.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Yeah, or you know the other way, the golfer that's
six at a desk all day and doesn't do anything
for his body, and then you know his only activity
is golf, you know. And so I think it's a
combination of preparing the body for more stress, to tolerate
more stress, to move the way it needs to move,
all these things, you know, to minimize I guess, the
abnormal stress that's put on it. And then you know,
(07:45):
educating the golfer on how to kind of regulate that
and manage those reps, you know, based on the place
they are at in that you know, continuing of their
condition and abilities and healing and all that.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And when you get a golfer coming into folks on
back pain, since I would agree with you that is
by far and away the most popular one. You know, what,
how do you approach? It's funny when I have golf
instructors on, I always ask the question, like, how do
you know when it's time to send them to a
body person? For you, you know, as the physical therapist, somebody
comes to you with back pain, if you talk about
(08:19):
your kind of process of how you evaluate them and
then how you kind of will delineate like which of
these causes are because physically they have issues, and then
you know, how do we know that you know, maybe
are there some swing contributors in terms of how there's
I think that'd be a cool thing for you to
dive into for the listeners.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Absolutely, So you know, someone comes to me, obviously, I'm
going to run them through a physical evaluation. I mean,
you know, typically with back pain, I'm always looking at
hip mobility and thoracic spy mobility. You know, nine times
out of ten they're limited and one or if not
both of those areas from a you know, physical limitation standpoint.
I'll watch them swing, you know, I'll video their swing.
(09:01):
Like I'm by far not a swing coach. I think
I have a decent enough I did to kind of
pick out some things, you know, but and again that's
kind of part of that team approach, if you will. Obviously,
if they're working with a teaching professional, you know, that's
where I may have a conversation with, Hey, what are
y'all working on? What do you see? You know, and
get their opinion maybe on the swing things that they're
(09:22):
faults if you will, that are maybe putting stress on
the body. And then for me, my mind's still going
back to the limitations, Well, how much of that is
well they just don't you know that it's a you know,
maybe a movement pattern thing versus well, they can't swing
the way the prob wants on the swing because their
body can't do that. You know, I would say typically
more times it's it's kind of cleaning up that first,
(09:45):
you know, that mobility and that movement and strength or
whatever kind of physical limitations I find, you know, and
then kind of stepping to that next step. Okay, let's
let's reassess the swing and kind of look at those
things as well. But you know, every once in a
while you'll get a gol for what it's like, all right, well,
you know, you move pretty well, you know, maybe there's
some minor things, you know, and then maybe then okay,
(10:06):
that's telling my brain, all right, we need to spend
more time kind of looking at the swing itself. And
also again back to that load management thing, you know,
that rep management thing. You know, how are they practicing,
how are they playing? You know, if there is kind
of a swing fault that's putting stress on the body, well,
if you're doing that one hundred times a day, depending
on the level of golfer, well you know that's got
(10:27):
the tendency to lead to pain and break down itself.
But again, you know, typically I'm trying to clear the
body first, and more times thanonomy, very rarely. I could
probably count on one hand the amount of golfers that
came in for back pain that didn't have some physical limitations.
And again most of them hips and thracic spine. Again,
ninety nine percent are going to have something there to
(10:49):
start with.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, the talk more I would love to share more
about how you're looking at the load management. Is that
something that we've looked at and rehab been some of
the high level guys, But I'm really curious, actually, it's
not something I've ever really talked about with someone else
in the field. How do you talk about that with
your clients when they come in and just you know,
putting it in terms that you know, the golfer with
(11:13):
pain right now listening kind of what understand and it
kind of makes sense for him.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yeah, So obviously, you know it's the question, you know,
digging into their history. You know, how how often do
you practice to you know, have you recently ramped up practice?
Have you made a swing change? Again, You'll see golfers
going through swing changes where they're doing more drills and
working on swings and swinging more, you know, kind of
in a short period of time, you know, versus like
a slow ramp up obviously if you're coming off off
(11:38):
season to end season type of thing. You know, trying
to educate them on not just grabbing the clubs out
of the closet and you know, going to make a
hundred swings every day, but you know, how to ramp
that stuff up. And again, I think that number probably
looks different from golf golfer to golfer, depending what level
they're at, depending obviously the physical shape they're in. You know,
(11:59):
it may be you know, I have some golfers where
it's like if it's acute and they're they're in bad
enough shape, it's like, look, you know, ten to twenty
balls is all I would hit, you know, in one session,
you know, and working on that quality and resting in between,
and typically you know, kind of getting away from that
digging it out of the dirt approach to just banging
balls until you figure it out, but more that quality
(12:19):
over quantity, And I think a big part of that
is that education piece of like, hey, you know that
this golf swing is putting a certain amount of stress
on your body. You know, I think even in a
perfect world, on a perfect body, it's still going to
put a level of stress. So understanding like, you know,
we want to stay below that threshold that where that
(12:40):
stress turns into risk for pain and injury. And so
for me, it's kind of trying to figure out where
that threshold is for each person and then you know,
giving them a plan to kind of to nudge that line.
So from the physical as they get stronger, more mobile,
better condition, we're bringing that threshold up right so that
then gives them more room to play more, practice more
(13:02):
and so on and so forth. But we kind of
have to figure out where that is and then stay
below that a little bit to try to stay out
of that that risk of injury range.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
And how do you.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Help, like you know, the amateur that comes to you
to do that, are you like do x amount of
swings today based and then like how do you quantify
like how you feel, like, how do you how do
you help guys do this? I think a lot of
guys listening right now are like, oh, that makes a
lot of sense, but like, how do you how do
you how do you actualize that? How do you kind
(13:33):
of put that in a way that's measurable for them?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, So I'll typically try to start with some kind
of a number, you know, twenty swings, thirty swings, whatever
it is, and then obviously like educate them how they
feel their feedback. You know, we're trying to kind of
have this ongoing conversation throughout the course of this you know, week,
weeks or whatever, where it's like, all right, go hit
(13:56):
thirty balls. But if at twenty, you know, you start
feeling something adverse pain, right, well maybe we need to
stop there. So that's not an absolube.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Give it, give them like guardrails.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Yeah, typical. Yeah, so it's like, you know, we might
have an idea of a number thirty, but hey, look
if at twenty you start feeling bad, when we're not
going to force thirty. If thirty feels good, then maybe
the next session it's thirty five, and let's see how
you feel until we get to whatever that you know,
their goal or their idea of a full session is,
or it might be sessions per week. You know however
(14:28):
that looks so yeah, it is a bit of kind
of a range some guardrails, but also again that education
piece of them understanding okay, well what am I looking for?
Adversely that tells me I need to stop.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I think that's so important.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
I think that's so important to give them those like
you almost that wiggle room. But also you're teaching them
about body awareness, right, and like, let's listen to your
body and let's see how you feel. And I'm curious
because when when we've done it, will you or when
I've done it? Like with clients all, it's definitely a
similar approach. It's like let's try thirty today. But you know,
obviously if you start feeling X symptom, like stop, it
(15:06):
just wasn't a day do you do you have a
run into because I would sometimes run into like somebody
would go they'd do what I asked them to do
and they'd say, yeah, I felt fine during, but then
the next morning they're like super sore or there's like
a day after kind of element to that. I'm curious
how you like would handle like do you put in
rest days or you try and say, you know, are
(15:28):
you trying? You know, particularly you have a competitive player
maybe needs to play, or a guy who needs to
play like a member member or a member guest, and
they got to play multiple days in a row. You know,
first the listener who like maybe has back pains trying
to get back to playing multiple days in a row
for an event like that, how would you kind of
structure kind of recommend that they prepare to get different
where they maybe won't have a data rest.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah, so obviously you know, looking at it and making
sure they're they're warming up properly, they're doing all the
prep stuff properly, you know, to get their body ready
for that. You know, I think, you know, sometimes you
do have to kind of make those changes on the fly,
you know, in those situations where it's like or you
might get a surprise reaction like that, Okay, like they've
(16:12):
been feeling good and then they you know, it's Wednesday
and they got to play on Friday, and they go
hit balls and their back flares up, and so it's like,
you know, I got this.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, that's like the worst phone call ever Chris So
and says, John's on the phone.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
He wants to tell you about his back, Like, god,
he was doing so good.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Yeah, so you know you kind of you scramble and
to kind of manage that. I think again, you know, obviously,
for me, a lot of times it's it's kind of
the conversation of talking them off the ledge, letting them
understand like this can happen. I mean, you know, it
can be a normal part of this process. It's never
a straight line of better, better, better, you know, there's
(16:52):
always these ups and downs. So I think part of
that calms them, you know, because in their mind it's
the end of the world, right, like, oh yeah, I mean,
I'm not going to be able to play this is fun.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
So for me, I think that's the biggest part, is
just talking them off that ledge and then you know,
giving them okay, well, let's just here's let's focus on
this the next two days, whether it's some you know,
calm down movements for the back or mobility or whatever
it is, and let's just really focus on getting you
feeling better, you know, and then give you kind of
a plan of you know, ramping back up whatever that
(17:25):
may be that may be the day of but I
think a lot of times, you know, if you kind
of talk them off that ledge, I think that takes
care of a lot of stuff, because you know, I
think the more they kind of freak out and panic,
it just amplifies all that anyway, and then you know,
so I think that's probably the most important thing, and
even educating golfers just in general with back pain that like, look,
(17:49):
you know, it's not the end of the world. We
figure this out. You know, back pain is a pretty
normal feeling for most humans at some point, so understanding, Okay, yeah,
we do need to do something to get rid of it,
but and acutely calm it down and kind of have
a plan there. But part of that calming down, I
think is you know, psychologically calming them down for lack
(18:11):
of better words.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
There's always an element of the psychological when it comes
to it, because they call it physical therapy, but there
is so much of it that's managing expectations and the
emotions and reactions.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Speaking of emotional reactions, I know you and I have
similar emotional reactions to some of this stuff on social
media and Instagram around Uh.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Actually we had a funny post. I think I put
it out.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
It was like, I don't know, something like doing something
on a bosu balls, like like drinking three, like trying
to walk after drinking some beers where challenger Both of
them will challenge your equilibrium, but neither will actually make
give you measurably any good at golf. So with that
might obviously, and I think one of the reason I've
always enjoyed you is you have that strength and conditioning
(18:58):
side to you where it's not just to medical side,
you know, for you. You know, over the years, I'm
just curious, you know, as it's become more mainstream, like
ill fitness side of things, like what are some you know,
some fads that you've kind of seen come and go,
and then what are some that maybe you're still sticking
around that you you just kind of shake your head
at at this point.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, I mean definitely, I think you tapped on a
main one, which is the unstable surface training. Uh. You
know that that fires me up every time I see it,
you know, And it's just like the lack of just
logical understanding of balance and transfer a training in that
and you know you're training on an unstable surface to
play a game on a stable surface. And you know,
(19:39):
if you know anything about the research around that, I mean,
the carryover from unstable service training really only gets you
better at doing whatever you're doing on an unstable surface. Also,
you look at the data that shows at least you know,
you're you're producing less force, your your motor patterns are
changing because again, now your brain's going from completing whatever
(20:00):
cash you're trying to complete to like, don't fall over, right,
and so that's going to be some different movement patterns.
So I don't you know, it irks me the most
to see people swinging a golf club on that because
like the last thing your brain is worried about is
hitting a golf ball or making.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
The proper play you're playing in path. It's like, no,
just don't fall over.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Yeah, that's all it is. It's like, you know, our
brain's number one job is keep us alive, right, so
don't fall over is a good part of that. So
you know, we lose sight of everything else, whether we're
squatting or lunging or swinging a golf club or whatever.
You know, that goes out the window, and it's like,
all right, the brain's doing everything it can with the
body to not fall over, and that's not the goal.
If I want a squat, I want to produce get
stronger so I can produce more force into the ground, right.
(20:41):
You know, if I'm trying to swing a club, I
want to swing a club the right way and with
the goal of hitting the golf ball to a target,
not the goal of don't fall on my face. So
you know, that's probably one of the biggest ones I
still see. You know. The other one, which is kind
of more recently gotten popular, is this kind of idea
of like, do these X amount of exercises fix this
swing fault. You know, that's another one that really kind
(21:03):
of drives me nuts, because you know, there is no
exercise that's going to fix directly fix a swing fault.
And I think a lot of it is a sales tactic. Look,
golfers are desperate to swing better, and so they typically
will eat anything up that gives them the promise that
they will swing better or not do the thing they
do wrong, so to speak. You know, I think that's
(21:24):
just you know, you know, I think it's kind of
snake a little in that sense, because you know, look,
there are exercises that can get you to move better
and move through greater range of motions. There's exercises that
can you'll help you get stronger and produce more force
and maybe have a little better stable base or whatever
that is. But none of those are directly going to
fix a swing fault. I mean, you know, you know
(21:46):
I early extend in my swing, and you know I
can deadlift two times my body weight, So it's not like,
you know, getting a stronger deadlift is fixed my swing,
you know, So.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
That's not a causational impact of it.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah. Yeah, that's coming from all the stuff that I'm
supposed to be doing that I don't do that my
instructor tells me to do, but exactly, you know, So
again like that, those things bother me because you know
whether or not the person's true intent is to mislead
the golfer. I mean, it is very misleading, and they're
usually the problem with most of those exercises are usually
(22:19):
low level, pointless exercises in general anyway, so they're not
going to help you even with the general physical attributes
that you're really trying to build in the gym, nor
will they help you fixure, right, yeah, you know, and look, golfers,
especially amateur golfers, Like, what's the biggest limitation for most
of them is time. You know, they've got families, they've
got jobs, they want to be practicing and playing, you know,
(22:41):
so that only leaves so much time in the gym.
So my my biggest argument against all that is, you know,
we need to make sure their time available to work
out is efficient and giving them the biggest effect that
it can. And those things just aren't going to move
the needle very much, if at all.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I mean, my biggest my feeling is that any golfer
who's listening right now could eliminate ninety percent of all
the stuff that they do and they probably would not
see a negative impact to their golf game because ninety
percent of it is not really going to move the needle.
And I think that's kind of always been our our
(23:19):
motto has been, like, hey, what is the least amount
of stuff I can do to create the greatest amount
of impact? Because to your point, like if people have
fifteen minutes, maybe I can get them to do that, right,
And I mean they'll have fifteen minutes.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Let's be real, it's just not a priority.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
But you know, and I think if assessing not just
kind of blindly throwing stuff at a piece of paper.
And I mean, I'm sure you've had this experience too,
where you get the guy who walks in with a
eight x eleven sheet of paper, two sided, with all
the exercises that they do. It's seven days a week,
and you're like, okay, so we can just crumble this
up and we can throw them over there, and let's
(23:56):
just start with getting your hips to rotate because your
hip internal rotate, sir, is zero, So we got a
low ways to go. Let's just start there and there.
And then you get these guys doing like like wait
at I just you just gave me an hour back,
and you're like, yeah, just do thirty minutes of this stuff.
I don't know, here's an idea. Maybe go put chip
(24:17):
I don't know, do something that you actually want to do.
And it's amazing that when they start to do the
right stuff, they actually start to see like improvement. And
then then eventually they're like, you know, the bad habit
kicks in. They're like, well, give me more, give me more,
give me more, give more, and you're like, no, dude,
you're good, Like go play more golf.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
But yeah, and I.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Think to your point of the you know, the exercises
that like, hey, this is going to fix your your
golf swing, I think that's such a that's so well
stated that I think, whether you know malicious or not,
people are the golfer will naturally make the jump from
oh this exercises fixes that in my swing without they
don't a lot of times, what I think is misunderstood
(24:57):
is to your point, the extra is going to train
a physical skill that is not a sports specific skill
because there is no club in your hand and there's
no little white ball down there, right, and you know
you can fix all of the physical limitations that you know.
Let's well, you can use early extension as an example.
You get have perfect hip rotation, you get to be
(25:17):
strong enough, have the great posture, and you just still
may not understand how to not early extend in your
golf swing or come over the top in your golf swing,
or be an upper body dominant. Like you could pass
all of the physical metrics. We see this all the time,
or we'll get guys who like fail everything. You know,
three four or five six months in you're like, great,
you pass all the physical metrics, and you're still doing
all these things. Well, the good news, I always joke,
(25:40):
I say, good news, bad news, I say, Well, the
good news is you don't have any more physical limitations.
That's amazing, like you've you've checked all these boxes. The
bad news is you're still doing the thing that you
don't want to do in your golf swing or your
golf instructors. So you don't want to do and you
no longer have the excuse that it's your body.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
So that's on me. Yeah, I'm sorry. Now you actually
got to get good at golf.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yeah, you got to work to put that point.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, that's an important point I think to make.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
No, I agree, and I think you know, look, golf
a game or a sport of skill, right, So I
want them being able to work on that skill as
much as they can, because that's really you know, what's
going to move the needle more from a scoring standpoint,
you know, if they have those limitations. So you know,
I want them to spend them just enough time in
(26:25):
the gym that they need to correct the things they
need to correct or improve the things they need to
improve so that a they can tolerate that time on
the practice ranger on the course, and b they have
the time to do it, you know, because you know,
the physical is there to the body. You know, it's
there to build a body that can move better, produce
more force, produce more speed, you know, make a bigger turn,
(26:48):
whatever that is. You know, those those basic characteristics that
we can change in the gym so that then they
have the capacity. And I love the work capacity because really,
like I always say, like I'm just giving the golfer
more capacity, more capacity to do those things. Now, that
doesn't mean they're magically gonna hit the ball in the
center of the club face and have a perfect looking swing.
You still have to do that work along with it
(27:10):
or when you hit those goals. Now the focus becomes
more on that work. You know. My job is to
build a body that can better a bit, you know,
have the better capacity to do those things with greater
ease and without pain.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I always use analogy of a jar of marbles, and
I think our job on the physical side is give
people bigger jars that they can fit more marbles in
numbercent We're not teaching them how to throw the marbles
or roll the marbles or do anything to do with
the marbles. Just giving them more marbles, right, so they
can practice longer or do whatever the coach is asking
them to do longer. And and then our job is
to teach people to you know, to your point the
capacity side, you know, there's a recovery element to that
(27:47):
of like how all right, you got big more capacity? Know,
how do we get you to get those marbles back
in the jar after you just used them? And I
think that's a piece that oftentimes, you know, people miss,
and you know, on that topic, like what do you
see I think recovery is something that's not talked about
Enough's not obviously not super sexy for people, but obviously
(28:07):
lack of it will lead to injuries and then all
of a sudden people care about it.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Like what do you think is that?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Like, sir, what do you see with your golfers is
like the number one thing that they do wrong from
a recovery perspective that could really help them stay healthier
and play the game longer.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Well, I think, you know, like globally, just having a plan,
you know, having a plan, practice plan, training plan, nutrition plans,
sleep plan, you know, having a plan for all these
things that move the needle. You know, they just kind
of wing it, uh, and then you know, wonder why that,
you know, they run out of gas, so they get hurt,
you know, at the end of it. And so I think,
(28:42):
you know, and again, look, that plan is going to
look different if you're on the PGA tour versus if
you're just you know, Joe Blow who plays on the
weekends at his club. You know, obviously those plans are
going to look very different, but the basic components of
them are the same. You know, we've got to prioritize sleep.
You know, we got to make sure we're managing our reps,
(29:02):
as we've talked about, and I think inside of managing
reps is not only like how much we practice, but
how often we rest or, how we you know, prioritize
rest and recovery, you know, nutrition to support all that,
and then obviously managing the training A. So we're doing
the right things in the least amount of time, we're
doing the things that move the needle the most that
(29:24):
a B. That training isn't then bleeding over into our
ability to recovery to play in practice, right, because that's
the other thing of doing a ton of volume of
one hundred different exercise that aren't doing anything but stressing
the body in ways that aren't meaningful. You guys still
got to recover from that to some degree. So I
think understanding that component and how all those pieces fit
together in a plan over a week, over a month,
(29:47):
over whatever that may be, and having that plans ability
to adjust, you know, especially you know, I would say,
like my main clientele at this point is is kind
of your forty to six year old amateur golfer, right,
So most of them have kids.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
They realize father times coming knocking.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yeah, so they're starting to see some of maybe some
of those distance losses, of those aches and pains that
they didn't have in their twenties and thirties. They don't
have a ton of time, and most of them, you know,
a could probably better prioritize some of that time. But
in reality, look, they've got kids, their kids probably play sports,
you know, they have their job, and they're responsibilities of
that responsibility with the family. So it's understanding how to
(30:28):
fit all these things that are part of your life.
And these are the conversations I have when I'm evaluating.
Somebody is understanding, what does your schedule look like, you know,
what's what's a weekly schedule for you, your kids, your family,
your job, And then we figure out, okay, well, how
do we fit gym in there. How do we make
sure we're getting our sleep we need? How do we
you know, have a plan for you know, nutrition if
(30:49):
we're trying to make some changes on that front, and
where do we fit that training in and what does
that training look like? And again, I think that's where
that subjective part of that evaluation that that is so meaningful,
you know, in any realm of medicine or you know,
assessment is getting to know them, their story, their situation,
(31:09):
and then helping them fit a plan that works for
them and then understanding, look, those things change, you know kids,
sports are in season, out of season. You know, kids
grow up, all those things, jobs change, all those things change.
How do we giving them the tools to understand, like,
how do I change with that?
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Wait?
Speaker 1 (31:26):
You mean there's not one set of five exercises that
a guy can do for the rest of his life.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
According to social media, there is, but.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
There is, Yeah, I mean that to be I mean,
that's what you said is just so well said, you know,
just the point that's been a common it's always a
common frustration. I'd say it's not yet. It's generally like
end of May. As we get you know, it's kind
of like, you know, end of April May. You guys
are coming out of the off season. They're like, Okay,
(31:54):
I'm good, I'm gonna go play more golf. I'll see
you back in the fall. And you're like, dude, no,
like you're going to be back to where we started.
We got to repeat, like what what? What's your My
favorite line of guys are like, no, I got I
know what to do now, Like I'm way better. I
know what to do, and I'm like cool, So how
are you gonna what's your off what's your end season plan?
Look like, how are you monitoring like volume and soreness
(32:15):
and recovery? And they look at you like huh. I'm
like yeah, exactly. You have no idea, Like this is
not a good idea. You are going to crash and burn.
Some guys obviously will we'll come you know, we'll come
around to it. But other guys it's like, all right, well,
I'll just see you when you're back. Is hurting you
generally late August there's when we call that duct ted month.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Yeah. Look, I mean you kind of get the two extremes.
You get the people that just quit training, quit doing anything,
and then they're all golf. You know, you get the
people that don't understand what that training needs to shift
to when you are playing more and more, and then
they can wear themselves into the ground and like they
both of them kind of end up in the same place,
you know, at the end of the summer, which is
(32:55):
they're hurting. They've probably lost some distance over the course
of the golf season, and you know, they're back at
square one where they were last August September when they
came and saw you. And it's trying to you know,
that education piece, and you know that is frustrating from
our end, just trying to get them to understand that,
you know, you're just going to be spending your wheels
every year and starting back where you finish. You know
(33:17):
why I never understand that, Like why put all this
work in in the winter just to lose it over
the summer? Yeah? Uh, you know, when you could keep
things going and start better than you were last September
this September.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Yeah, yeah, Well, and it's kind of like parenting. You
can you can.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
You can huff and puff to your red in the face,
but at the end of the day, who knows, you
can't force them to do it. But yeah, what I
hope is everyone listening today is really kind of picked
up a number of nuggets from you and the conversation
around proper training, around you know, the types of uh
you know of options that are out there, you know,
on the medical side as well as on the training side.
(33:52):
And obviously stay off of unstable surfaces, don't swing golf
clubs on those.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
But yeah, JP where you put out.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
A ton of good stuff on social and just you know,
add tons of value for peopores, best places for them
to follow.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Pretty active on all social media, uh you know, Twitter,
I'm probably the most outspoken on uh, you know with
that uh gidry golf and sport. Instagram, you know, a
lot of more demonstrations and educational stuff there. Facebook. I
have a YouTube channel, which again is more kind of
demonstration and educational videos. Twitter's more kind of my place
(34:30):
where I'll put out my takes that makes everybody made them.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
But it's entertaining that follow all of them.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
But definitely so I'm typically more Again, there's always good
nuggets in there. But you know, and and I get
some pushback on kind of how I react to things,
but you know, in my opinion, like that's our job.
I think it's our job to educate the public. Uh,
it's our job to kind of, you know, dispel those myths,
(35:01):
whether everybody agrees with me or not. I mean, I'm
pretty secure in my beliefs and my knowledge on that.
And and you know, do I know everything, No, But
I think I have a pretty good idea of how
to best approach you know, golf, fitness, golf rehab, you know,
and and knowing to this point has shown me enough
evidence for those things to make me change my mind.
(35:22):
And in fact, the more evidence I see just continues
to to you know, back up you know, my beliefs
on that, you know, And so you know, I'm pretty
outspoken there. I'm pretty you know, upfront about my beliefs
on that. And uh, you know, some of it is
kind of some emotional reactions at times, the things I
see that that frustrate me or kind of pissed me off.
(35:44):
But when you see it all day every day, you know,
sometimes by the same people, it's like, you know, it's
it's hard to kind of keep it in when you
know it's it's wrong. And like I said, I don't
know what their intent is, what their intent is putting
it out there, but I do know it's misleading and false,
and you know, I feel like part of being a
professional in this world, you know, I think that's our
(36:07):
job is it's a beauty of social media, is we
have access to more people. I think that's part of
our job is to provide that educational piece and kind
of clear up that stuff so that golfers are the
time they are spending in the gym, they are getting
results from it.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
For sure. Well, I know.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
At my marketing guy, my marketing team made me get
on Twitter about sixty ninety days ago.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
I withheld out for this long, but I enjoy watching.
I enjoy your post, so I read them step.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
I have to step away every now and then because yeah,
it's a little much, but that's funny.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
I've avoided it for over a decade. But they're like, now, dude,
we need you to go on there, and all right, okay,
here we go. So but anyway, guys, we'll put all
those you know, all the JP's you know profiles also
ways to follow him, connect with him, and then the
show notes and definitely go check out his stuff. It's
great and JP, I can't thank you enough for coming
on today and helping me dispel some myths, drop some
(37:02):
knowledge bombs.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
It's been a blast man.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Yeah, I'm glad to do it. I appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Awesome cool.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Well, everyone listening, thanks as always for hanging out with
this year on the Golf Inn this Bomb Squad, and
we'll look forward to catching you on the next episode.
Chris fit is ruiny the game, teaching these guys to
get bigger and stronger and faster, and we're gonna blade him.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Just a fantastic christ. He doesn't get old.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome to the Golf Fitness Bomb Squad. I'm your host,
Chris Finn and that song never gets old.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you, Caleb uh.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'm excited today we have a special guest with us.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
He is a friend of mine I've had for a
long time, been in the business together similar times, getting
getting rolling and you know, and he has been around
and he's honestly for those of listening who don't know him,
we'll make sure we share all of his contacts and
everything with you at the end. I think one of
my greatest respects for him is he speaks what he believes.
(00:50):
He speaks based on science and hence we get along.
So so, without further ado, I would love to welcome
doctor J. P.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Gidry on. It's super excited to have you on. Man.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yeah, Chris, thanks for having me. I'm glad to be
on have the opportunity to chat a little bit about
golf fitness and although maybe BS that goes on.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
There's no BS.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
The best thing in the world is to stand on
a bosuball and swing a golf club because that's going
to increase.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Your our output. Right.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It doesn't look like the golf swing. It's not helping you, right.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
That's I thought.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I just thought that was you know all you know, uh,
basically proven in all the research out there. But but
let's let's let's uh. I think that's one of the
reasons we call this the golf in this bombs. Guys
like to debunk drop you know, a lot of the myths,
drop some knowledge bombs. But before we get to that,
why don't you give you know, people listening who maybe
don't know you, aren't familiar with you, kind of a
little bit of a little bit of your history and
(01:44):
uh and kind of how you got to where you
are today.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
So my name's J. P. Gidry. I live in Mandeville, Louisiana,
where I own and operate Gidriy Golf and Sport. So
my background is I've got a doctor in physical therapy.
Started out in kind of general outpatient sports physical therapy.
Ended up taking a lesson about three or four years
into being a physical therapist from James Lights, who was
(02:10):
kind of part of all TPI when they were starting up,
and he was like, hey, man, you know you like golf.
You're pt they got this TPI thing. You know, this
is probably fifteen years ago. You know, I think you
ought to check it out, go get certified. And I'd
love to have he was teaching in the area. I'd
love to have somebody I could refer to. So I
did as he said, ended up getting Level one certified.
(02:31):
Had my own outpatient business at the time, and started
kind of doing some golf stuff on the side, and
as that grew, I ended up getting out of the
outpatient stuff and the insurance stuff and dealing with all
that and jumping into the golf stuff. And that's been
she's probably ten to twelve years that I've been focusing
solely on helping golfers hit it further, play without pain,
(02:52):
and just be able to get out on the course
as long as they live.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
All good things.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the cool things
for me is getting to talk to other physios, particularly
in the cash space, because obviously that's so that's the
space you're in. And you know, I think a lot
of a lot of people golfers clients like they just
don't understand the differences. And actually you've worked in both
of the insurance space and then cash base. What I'm curious,
(03:18):
like just for you, like, what have been some of
the differences that you've seen in terms of what you've
been able to do for people, you know, when your
cash versus when you're have the insurance handcuffs on as
they say, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
So obviously, look, I you know, I can use my
knowledge and expertise as I see fit, rather than some
guys sitting in an office you reading or yea right now,
it's yeah, right now, yeah, back then looking at you know,
diagnosis codes and saying all right, will you get eight
visits and that's all you're going to get? Versus that,
So we're you know, obviously we're sitting in front of
(03:52):
the human being, having conversations with them and understanding what
they need and how much they need and so taking
as you say, those hands us off and being able
to not even worry about that and just say, hey,
this is what you need to get to your goals.
This is what we're going to do for you. And
I don't have anybody overseeing me saying well, no, you know,
we're not going to give you twelve We're only going
(04:12):
to give you eight sessions, so you know, whatever that
may be. So, you know, that's been my you know,
it was always my frustration being in the insurance based model,
and then since I've kind of stepped away from that,
and it also it allows me to just be more
creative in how I use my knowledge, right, I mean,
you know, we're pets, you know, we're doctorates. Now we
(04:34):
can kind of talk about whether that's worth it or not.
But in the end, you know, I paid for an
extra year of school, so I might as well use
that name.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
So but you know, like you know, I think we
should be allowed to kind of help as many people
as we can and as many ways as we can,
you know, and get creative with that. You know, I
have my app and I can help people through that
and hybrid models and in person and kind of get
all these differ for ways to help people that the
cash model allows that you know, insurance, you know, wouldn't
(05:05):
really cover you know, a lot of that if I
was still in that insurance you know, base game if
you will.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Yeah, for sure, speaking of the game, I always remember you,
I'd be trying to rehab people. Back in the when
I was working in insurances, I was starting to be
for as golf and obviously work cash to at this
point you know, kind of always were. But when I
you know, to pay the bills for the kids and
the wife, you know, you do the outpatient thing while
you're building up the cash side. And I just always remember,
(05:33):
you didn't get a golfer in there because they erred.
I was in the golf and you rehab the injury,
and then you get them. You obviously want to get
them back to hitting balls and see how their body
reacts and making sure they're not having flare ups and whatnot, that.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
They have the you know, the capacity to play.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
And so we'd do some hitting or I'd have them
hit you know, range protocols or whatever. But I'd always
have to document it as increased activity is tolerated.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
It was never hit.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Golf balls thirty Do that like immediate denial?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Absolutely. You got to figure out that that speak, you know,
that language that they're looking for in those notes to
pay you, which is always.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
For sure, Well, what are you know, obviously being a
physical therapist and you know you're obviously working with golfers.
You know what what would you in your practice are
kind of like you know, the top one too, most
common injuries that you see with golfers, you know as
they come in to see it.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Yeah, I mean definitely as you probably know, low backs
you know above and beyond number one, and you know
in golf, but I think that's a lot of populations.
But you know, definitely in golfers. You know, uh, low
back is you know, heads and tails above any other complaint.
You know, probably elbow, shoulder I would see next, you
know on that list with that, you know, but with golf,
(06:49):
as we know, you know, it's it's more that repetitive nature.
So I kind of view it as simplifying it is
is most golf injuries. It's not contact and not getting tackled,
you typically falling down on the ground or anything. You know,
it's it's some combination of the body's inability to tolerate
the stress you put on it and then maybe that
(07:10):
golfer's inability to regulate the stress they're putting on it.
You know. But you know, you see it all the
time this time of year. You know, the golfer hadn't
swung a club in six months and then they go
out and hit one hundred balls every day and now
my elbow hurts.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
It's like, well yeah, now the.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Yeah, or you know the other way, the golfer that's
six at a desk all day and doesn't do anything
for his body, and then you know his only activity
is golf, you know. And so I think it's a
combination of preparing the body for more stress, to tolerate
more stress, to move the way it needs to move,
all these things, you know, to minimize I guess, the
abnormal stress that's put on it. And then you know,
(07:45):
educating the golfer on how to kind of regulate that
and manage those reps, you know, based on the place
they are at in that you know, continuing of their
condition and abilities and healing and all that.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And when you get a golfer coming into folks on
back pain, since I would agree with you that is
by far and away the most popular one. You know, what,
how do you approach? It's funny when I have golf
instructors on, I always ask the question, like, how do
you know when it's time to send them to a
body person? For you, you know, as the physical therapist, somebody
comes to you with back pain, if you talk about
(08:19):
your kind of process of how you evaluate them and
then how you kind of will delineate like which of
these causes are because physically they have issues, and then
you know, how do we know that you know, maybe
are there some swing contributors in terms of how there's
I think that'd be a cool thing for you to
dive into for the listeners.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Absolutely, So you know, someone comes to me, obviously, I'm
going to run them through a physical evaluation. I mean,
you know, typically with back pain, I'm always looking at
hip mobility and thoracic spy mobility. You know, nine times
out of ten they're limited and one or if not
both of those areas from a you know, physical limitation standpoint.
I'll watch them swing, you know, I'll video their swing.
(09:01):
Like I'm by far not a swing coach. I think
I have a decent enough I did to kind of
pick out some things, you know, but and again that's
kind of part of that team approach, if you will. Obviously,
if they're working with a teaching professional, you know, that's
where I may have a conversation with, Hey, what are
y'all working on? What do you see? You know, and
get their opinion maybe on the swing things that they're
(09:22):
faults if you will, that are maybe putting stress on
the body. And then for me, my mind's still going
back to the limitations, Well, how much of that is
well they just don't you know that it's a you know,
maybe a movement pattern thing versus well, they can't swing
the way the prob wants on the swing because their
body can't do that. You know, I would say typically
more times it's it's kind of cleaning up that first,
(09:45):
you know, that mobility and that movement and strength or
whatever kind of physical limitations I find, you know, and
then kind of stepping to that next step. Okay, let's
let's reassess the swing and kind of look at those
things as well. But you know, every once in a
while you'll get a gol for what it's like, all right, well,
you know, you move pretty well, you know, maybe there's
some minor things, you know, and then maybe then okay,
(10:06):
that's telling my brain, all right, we need to spend
more time kind of looking at the swing itself. And
also again back to that load management thing, you know,
that rep management thing. You know, how are they practicing,
how are they playing? You know, if there is kind
of a swing fault that's putting stress on the body, well,
if you're doing that one hundred times a day, depending
on the level of golfer, well you know that's got
(10:27):
the tendency to lead to pain and break down itself.
But again, you know, typically I'm trying to clear the
body first, and more times thanonomy, very rarely. I could
probably count on one hand the amount of golfers that
came in for back pain that didn't have some physical limitations.
And again most of them hips and thracic spine. Again,
ninety nine percent are going to have something there to
(10:49):
start with.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, the talk more I would love to share more
about how you're looking at the load management. Is that
something that we've looked at and rehab been some of
the high level guys, But I'm really curious, actually, it's
not something I've ever really talked about with someone else
in the field. How do you talk about that with
your clients when they come in and just you know,
putting it in terms that you know, the golfer with
(11:13):
pain right now listening kind of what understand and it
kind of makes sense for him.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yeah, So obviously, you know it's the question, you know,
digging into their history. You know, how how often do
you practice to you know, have you recently ramped up practice?
Have you made a swing change? Again, You'll see golfers
going through swing changes where they're doing more drills and
working on swings and swinging more, you know, kind of
in a short period of time, you know, versus like
a slow ramp up obviously if you're coming off off
(11:38):
season to end season type of thing. You know, trying
to educate them on not just grabbing the clubs out
of the closet and you know, going to make a
hundred swings every day, but you know, how to ramp
that stuff up. And again, I think that number probably
looks different from golf golfer to golfer, depending what level
they're at, depending obviously the physical shape they're in. You know,
(11:59):
it may be you know, I have some golfers where
it's like if it's acute and they're they're in bad
enough shape, it's like, look, you know, ten to twenty
balls is all I would hit, you know, in one session,
you know, and working on that quality and resting in between,
and typically you know, kind of getting away from that
digging it out of the dirt approach to just banging
balls until you figure it out, but more that quality
(12:19):
over quantity, And I think a big part of that
is that education piece of like, hey, you know that
this golf swing is putting a certain amount of stress
on your body. You know, I think even in a
perfect world, on a perfect body, it's still going to
put a level of stress. So understanding like, you know,
we want to stay below that threshold that where that
(12:40):
stress turns into risk for pain and injury. And so
for me, it's kind of trying to figure out where
that threshold is for each person and then you know,
giving them a plan to kind of to nudge that line.
So from the physical as they get stronger, more mobile,
better condition, we're bringing that threshold up right so that
then gives them more room to play more, practice more
(13:02):
and so on and so forth. But we kind of
have to figure out where that is and then stay
below that a little bit to try to stay out
of that that risk of injury range.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
And how do you.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Help, like you know, the amateur that comes to you
to do that, are you like do x amount of
swings today based and then like how do you quantify
like how you feel, like, how do you how do
you help guys do this? I think a lot of
guys listening right now are like, oh, that makes a
lot of sense, but like, how do you how do
you how do you actualize that? How do you kind
(13:33):
of put that in a way that's measurable for them?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, So I'll typically try to start with some kind
of a number, you know, twenty swings, thirty swings, whatever
it is, and then obviously like educate them how they
feel their feedback. You know, we're trying to kind of
have this ongoing conversation throughout the course of this you know, week,
weeks or whatever, where it's like, all right, go hit
(13:56):
thirty balls. But if at twenty, you know, you start
feeling something adverse pain, right, well maybe we need to
stop there. So that's not an absolube.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Give it, give them like guardrails.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Yeah, typical. Yeah, so it's like, you know, we might
have an idea of a number thirty, but hey, look
if at twenty you start feeling bad, when we're not
going to force thirty. If thirty feels good, then maybe
the next session it's thirty five, and let's see how
you feel until we get to whatever that you know,
their goal or their idea of a full session is,
or it might be sessions per week. You know however
(14:28):
that looks so yeah, it is a bit of kind
of a range some guardrails, but also again that education
piece of them understanding okay, well what am I looking for?
Adversely that tells me I need to stop.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I think that's so important.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
I think that's so important to give them those like
you almost that wiggle room. But also you're teaching them
about body awareness, right, and like, let's listen to your
body and let's see how you feel. And I'm curious
because when when we've done it, will you or when
I've done it? Like with clients all, it's definitely a
similar approach. It's like let's try thirty today. But you know,
obviously if you start feeling X symptom, like stop, it
(15:06):
just wasn't a day do you do you have a
run into because I would sometimes run into like somebody
would go they'd do what I asked them to do
and they'd say, yeah, I felt fine during, but then
the next morning they're like super sore or there's like
a day after kind of element to that. I'm curious
how you like would handle like do you put in
rest days or you try and say, you know, are
(15:28):
you trying? You know, particularly you have a competitive player
maybe needs to play, or a guy who needs to
play like a member member or a member guest, and
they got to play multiple days in a row. You know,
first the listener who like maybe has back pains trying
to get back to playing multiple days in a row
for an event like that, how would you kind of
structure kind of recommend that they prepare to get different
where they maybe won't have a data rest.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah, so obviously you know, looking at it and making
sure they're they're warming up properly, they're doing all the
prep stuff properly, you know, to get their body ready
for that. You know, I think, you know, sometimes you
do have to kind of make those changes on the fly,
you know, in those situations where it's like or you
might get a surprise reaction like that, Okay, like they've
(16:12):
been feeling good and then they you know, it's Wednesday
and they got to play on Friday, and they go
hit balls and their back flares up, and so it's like,
you know, I got this.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, that's like the worst phone call ever Chris So
and says, John's on the phone.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
He wants to tell you about his back, Like, god,
he was doing so good.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Yeah, so you know you kind of you scramble and
to kind of manage that. I think again, you know, obviously,
for me, a lot of times it's it's kind of
the conversation of talking them off the ledge, letting them
understand like this can happen. I mean, you know, it
can be a normal part of this process. It's never
a straight line of better, better, better, you know, there's
(16:52):
always these ups and downs. So I think part of
that calms them, you know, because in their mind it's
the end of the world, right, like, oh yeah, I mean,
I'm not going to be able to play this is fun.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
So for me, I think that's the biggest part, is
just talking them off that ledge and then you know,
giving them okay, well, let's just here's let's focus on
this the next two days, whether it's some you know,
calm down movements for the back or mobility or whatever
it is, and let's just really focus on getting you
feeling better, you know, and then give you kind of
a plan of you know, ramping back up whatever that
(17:25):
may be that may be the day of but I
think a lot of times, you know, if you kind
of talk them off that ledge, I think that takes
care of a lot of stuff, because you know, I
think the more they kind of freak out and panic,
it just amplifies all that anyway, and then you know,
so I think that's probably the most important thing, and
even educating golfers just in general with back pain that like, look,
(17:49):
you know, it's not the end of the world. We
figure this out. You know, back pain is a pretty
normal feeling for most humans at some point, so understanding, Okay, yeah,
we do need to do something to get rid of it,
but and acutely calm it down and kind of have
a plan there. But part of that calming down, I
think is you know, psychologically calming them down for lack
(18:11):
of better words.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
There's always an element of the psychological when it comes
to it, because they call it physical therapy, but there
is so much of it that's managing expectations and the
emotions and reactions.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Speaking of emotional reactions, I know you and I have
similar emotional reactions to some of this stuff on social
media and Instagram around Uh.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Actually we had a funny post. I think I put
it out.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
It was like, I don't know, something like doing something
on a bosu balls, like like drinking three, like trying
to walk after drinking some beers where challenger Both of
them will challenge your equilibrium, but neither will actually make
give you measurably any good at golf. So with that
might obviously, and I think one of the reason I've
always enjoyed you is you have that strength and conditioning
(18:58):
side to you where it's not just to medical side,
you know, for you. You know, over the years, I'm
just curious, you know, as it's become more mainstream, like
ill fitness side of things, like what are some you know,
some fads that you've kind of seen come and go,
and then what are some that maybe you're still sticking
around that you you just kind of shake your head
at at this point.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, I mean definitely, I think you tapped on a
main one, which is the unstable surface training. Uh. You
know that that fires me up every time I see it,
you know, And it's just like the lack of just
logical understanding of balance and transfer a training in that
and you know you're training on an unstable surface to
play a game on a stable surface. And you know,
(19:39):
if you know anything about the research around that, I mean,
the carryover from unstable service training really only gets you
better at doing whatever you're doing on an unstable surface. Also,
you look at the data that shows at least you know,
you're you're producing less force, your your motor patterns are
changing because again, now your brain's going from completing whatever
(20:00):
cash you're trying to complete to like, don't fall over, right,
and so that's going to be some different movement patterns.
So I don't you know, it irks me the most
to see people swinging a golf club on that because
like the last thing your brain is worried about is
hitting a golf ball or making.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
The proper play you're playing in path. It's like, no,
just don't fall over.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Yeah, that's all it is. It's like, you know, our
brain's number one job is keep us alive, right, so
don't fall over is a good part of that. So
you know, we lose sight of everything else, whether we're
squatting or lunging or swinging a golf club or whatever.
You know, that goes out the window, and it's like,
all right, the brain's doing everything it can with the
body to not fall over, and that's not the goal.
If I want a squat, I want to produce get
stronger so I can produce more force into the ground, right.
(20:41):
You know, if I'm trying to swing a club, I
want to swing a club the right way and with
the goal of hitting the golf ball to a target,
not the goal of don't fall on my face. So
you know, that's probably one of the biggest ones I
still see. You know. The other one, which is kind
of more recently gotten popular, is this kind of idea
of like, do these X amount of exercises fix this
swing fault. You know, that's another one that really kind
(21:03):
of drives me nuts, because you know, there is no
exercise that's going to fix directly fix a swing fault.
And I think a lot of it is a sales tactic. Look,
golfers are desperate to swing better, and so they typically
will eat anything up that gives them the promise that
they will swing better or not do the thing they
do wrong, so to speak. You know, I think that's
(21:24):
just you know, you know, I think it's kind of
snake a little in that sense, because you know, look,
there are exercises that can get you to move better
and move through greater range of motions. There's exercises that
can you'll help you get stronger and produce more force
and maybe have a little better stable base or whatever
that is. But none of those are directly going to
fix a swing fault. I mean, you know, you know
(21:46):
I early extend in my swing, and you know I
can deadlift two times my body weight, So it's not like,
you know, getting a stronger deadlift is fixed my swing,
you know, So.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
That's not a causational impact of it.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah. Yeah, that's coming from all the stuff that I'm
supposed to be doing that I don't do that my
instructor tells me to do, but exactly, you know, So
again like that, those things bother me because you know
whether or not the person's true intent is to mislead
the golfer. I mean, it is very misleading, and they're
usually the problem with most of those exercises are usually
(22:19):
low level, pointless exercises in general anyway, so they're not
going to help you even with the general physical attributes
that you're really trying to build in the gym, nor
will they help you fixure, right, yeah, you know, and look, golfers,
especially amateur golfers, Like, what's the biggest limitation for most
of them is time. You know, they've got families, they've
got jobs, they want to be practicing and playing, you know,
(22:41):
so that only leaves so much time in the gym.
So my my biggest argument against all that is, you know,
we need to make sure their time available to work
out is efficient and giving them the biggest effect that
it can. And those things just aren't going to move
the needle very much, if at all.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I mean, my biggest my feeling is that any golfer
who's listening right now could eliminate ninety percent of all
the stuff that they do and they probably would not
see a negative impact to their golf game because ninety
percent of it is not really going to move the needle.
And I think that's kind of always been our our
(23:19):
motto has been, like, hey, what is the least amount
of stuff I can do to create the greatest amount
of impact? Because to your point, like if people have
fifteen minutes, maybe I can get them to do that, right,
And I mean they'll have fifteen minutes.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Let's be real, it's just not a priority.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
But you know, and I think if assessing not just
kind of blindly throwing stuff at a piece of paper.
And I mean, I'm sure you've had this experience too,
where you get the guy who walks in with a
eight x eleven sheet of paper, two sided, with all
the exercises that they do. It's seven days a week,
and you're like, okay, so we can just crumble this
up and we can throw them over there, and let's
(23:56):
just start with getting your hips to rotate because your
hip internal rotate, sir, is zero, So we got a
low ways to go. Let's just start there and there.
And then you get these guys doing like like wait
at I just you just gave me an hour back,
and you're like, yeah, just do thirty minutes of this stuff.
I don't know, here's an idea. Maybe go put chip
(24:17):
I don't know, do something that you actually want to do.
And it's amazing that when they start to do the
right stuff, they actually start to see like improvement. And
then then eventually they're like, you know, the bad habit
kicks in. They're like, well, give me more, give me more,
give me more, give more, and you're like, no, dude,
you're good, Like go play more golf.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
But yeah, and I.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Think to your point of the you know, the exercises
that like, hey, this is going to fix your your
golf swing, I think that's such a that's so well
stated that I think, whether you know malicious or not,
people are the golfer will naturally make the jump from
oh this exercises fixes that in my swing without they
don't a lot of times, what I think is misunderstood
(24:57):
is to your point, the extra is going to train
a physical skill that is not a sports specific skill
because there is no club in your hand and there's
no little white ball down there, right, and you know
you can fix all of the physical limitations that you know.
Let's well, you can use early extension as an example.
You get have perfect hip rotation, you get to be
(25:17):
strong enough, have the great posture, and you just still
may not understand how to not early extend in your
golf swing or come over the top in your golf swing,
or be an upper body dominant. Like you could pass
all of the physical metrics. We see this all the time,
or we'll get guys who like fail everything. You know,
three four or five six months in you're like, great,
you pass all the physical metrics, and you're still doing
all these things. Well, the good news, I always joke,
(25:40):
I say, good news, bad news, I say, Well, the
good news is you don't have any more physical limitations.
That's amazing, like you've you've checked all these boxes. The
bad news is you're still doing the thing that you
don't want to do in your golf swing or your
golf instructors. So you don't want to do and you
no longer have the excuse that it's your body.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
So that's on me. Yeah, I'm sorry. Now you actually
got to get good at golf.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yeah, you got to work to put that point.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, that's an important point I think to make.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
No, I agree, and I think you know, look, golf
a game or a sport of skill, right, So I
want them being able to work on that skill as
much as they can, because that's really you know, what's
going to move the needle more from a scoring standpoint,
you know, if they have those limitations. So you know,
I want them to spend them just enough time in
(26:25):
the gym that they need to correct the things they
need to correct or improve the things they need to
improve so that a they can tolerate that time on
the practice ranger on the course, and b they have
the time to do it, you know, because you know,
the physical is there to the body. You know, it's
there to build a body that can move better, produce
more force, produce more speed, you know, make a bigger turn,
(26:48):
whatever that is. You know, those those basic characteristics that
we can change in the gym so that then they
have the capacity. And I love the work capacity because really,
like I always say, like I'm just giving the golfer
more capacity, more capacity to do those things. Now, that
doesn't mean they're magically gonna hit the ball in the
center of the club face and have a perfect looking swing.
You still have to do that work along with it
(27:10):
or when you hit those goals. Now the focus becomes
more on that work. You know. My job is to
build a body that can better a bit, you know,
have the better capacity to do those things with greater
ease and without pain.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I always use analogy of a jar of marbles, and
I think our job on the physical side is give
people bigger jars that they can fit more marbles in
numbercent We're not teaching them how to throw the marbles
or roll the marbles or do anything to do with
the marbles. Just giving them more marbles, right, so they
can practice longer or do whatever the coach is asking
them to do longer. And and then our job is
to teach people to you know, to your point the
capacity side, you know, there's a recovery element to that
(27:47):
of like how all right, you got big more capacity? Know,
how do we get you to get those marbles back
in the jar after you just used them? And I
think that's a piece that oftentimes, you know, people miss,
and you know, on that topic, like what do you
see I think recovery is something that's not talked about
Enough's not obviously not super sexy for people, but obviously
(28:07):
lack of it will lead to injuries and then all
of a sudden people care about it.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Like what do you think is that?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Like, sir, what do you see with your golfers is
like the number one thing that they do wrong from
a recovery perspective that could really help them stay healthier
and play the game longer.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Well, I think, you know, like globally, just having a plan,
you know, having a plan, practice plan, training plan, nutrition plans,
sleep plan, you know, having a plan for all these
things that move the needle. You know, they just kind
of wing it, uh, and then you know, wonder why that,
you know, they run out of gas, so they get hurt,
you know, at the end of it. And so I think,
(28:42):
you know, and again, look, that plan is going to
look different if you're on the PGA tour versus if
you're just you know, Joe Blow who plays on the
weekends at his club. You know, obviously those plans are
going to look very different, but the basic components of
them are the same. You know, we've got to prioritize sleep.
You know, we got to make sure we're managing our reps,
(29:02):
as we've talked about, and I think inside of managing
reps is not only like how much we practice, but
how often we rest or, how we you know, prioritize
rest and recovery, you know, nutrition to support all that,
and then obviously managing the training A. So we're doing
the right things in the least amount of time, we're
doing the things that move the needle the most that
(29:24):
a B. That training isn't then bleeding over into our
ability to recovery to play in practice, right, because that's
the other thing of doing a ton of volume of
one hundred different exercise that aren't doing anything but stressing
the body in ways that aren't meaningful. You guys still
got to recover from that to some degree. So I
think understanding that component and how all those pieces fit
together in a plan over a week, over a month,
(29:47):
over whatever that may be, and having that plans ability
to adjust, you know, especially you know, I would say,
like my main clientele at this point is is kind
of your forty to six year old amateur golfer, right,
So most of them have kids.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
They realize father times coming knocking.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yeah, so they're starting to see some of maybe some
of those distance losses, of those aches and pains that
they didn't have in their twenties and thirties. They don't
have a ton of time, and most of them, you know,
a could probably better prioritize some of that time. But
in reality, look, they've got kids, their kids probably play sports,
you know, they have their job, and they're responsibilities of
that responsibility with the family. So it's understanding how to
(30:28):
fit all these things that are part of your life.
And these are the conversations I have when I'm evaluating.
Somebody is understanding, what does your schedule look like, you know,
what's what's a weekly schedule for you, your kids, your family,
your job, And then we figure out, okay, well, how
do we fit gym in there. How do we make
sure we're getting our sleep we need? How do we
you know, have a plan for you know, nutrition if
(30:49):
we're trying to make some changes on that front, and
where do we fit that training in and what does
that training look like? And again, I think that's where
that subjective part of that evaluation that that is so meaningful,
you know, in any realm of medicine or you know,
assessment is getting to know them, their story, their situation,
(31:09):
and then helping them fit a plan that works for
them and then understanding, look, those things change, you know kids,
sports are in season, out of season. You know, kids
grow up, all those things, jobs change, all those things change.
How do we giving them the tools to understand, like,
how do I change with that?
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Wait?
Speaker 1 (31:26):
You mean there's not one set of five exercises that
a guy can do for the rest of his life.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
According to social media, there is, but.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
There is, Yeah, I mean that to be I mean,
that's what you said is just so well said, you know,
just the point that's been a common it's always a
common frustration. I'd say it's not yet. It's generally like
end of May. As we get you know, it's kind
of like, you know, end of April May. You guys
are coming out of the off season. They're like, Okay,
(31:54):
I'm good, I'm gonna go play more golf. I'll see
you back in the fall. And you're like, dude, no,
like you're going to be back to where we started.
We got to repeat, like what what? What's your My
favorite line of guys are like, no, I got I
know what to do now, Like I'm way better. I
know what to do, and I'm like cool, So how
are you gonna what's your off what's your end season plan?
Look like, how are you monitoring like volume and soreness
(32:15):
and recovery? And they look at you like huh. I'm
like yeah, exactly. You have no idea, Like this is
not a good idea. You are going to crash and burn.
Some guys obviously will we'll come you know, we'll come
around to it. But other guys it's like, all right, well,
I'll just see you when you're back. Is hurting you
generally late August there's when we call that duct ted month.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Yeah. Look, I mean you kind of get the two extremes.
You get the people that just quit training, quit doing anything,
and then they're all golf. You know, you get the
people that don't understand what that training needs to shift
to when you are playing more and more, and then
they can wear themselves into the ground and like they
both of them kind of end up in the same place,
you know, at the end of the summer, which is
(32:55):
they're hurting. They've probably lost some distance over the course
of the golf season, and you know, they're back at
square one where they were last August September when they
came and saw you. And it's trying to you know,
that education piece, and you know that is frustrating from
our end, just trying to get them to understand that,
you know, you're just going to be spending your wheels
every year and starting back where you finish. You know
(33:17):
why I never understand that, Like why put all this
work in in the winter just to lose it over
the summer? Yeah? Uh, you know, when you could keep
things going and start better than you were last September
this September.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Yeah, yeah, Well, and it's kind of like parenting. You
can you can.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
You can huff and puff to your red in the face,
but at the end of the day, who knows, you
can't force them to do it. But yeah, what I
hope is everyone listening today is really kind of picked
up a number of nuggets from you and the conversation
around proper training, around you know, the types of uh
you know of options that are out there, you know,
on the medical side as well as on the training side.
(33:52):
And obviously stay off of unstable surfaces, don't swing golf
clubs on those.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
But yeah, JP where you put out.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
A ton of good stuff on social and just you know,
add tons of value for peopores, best places for them
to follow.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Pretty active on all social media, uh you know, Twitter,
I'm probably the most outspoken on uh, you know with
that uh gidry golf and sport. Instagram, you know, a
lot of more demonstrations and educational stuff there. Facebook. I
have a YouTube channel, which again is more kind of
demonstration and educational videos. Twitter's more kind of my place
(34:30):
where I'll put out my takes that makes everybody made them.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
But it's entertaining that follow all of them.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
But definitely so I'm typically more Again, there's always good
nuggets in there. But you know, and and I get
some pushback on kind of how I react to things,
but you know, in my opinion, like that's our job.
I think it's our job to educate the public. Uh,
it's our job to kind of, you know, dispel those myths,
(35:01):
whether everybody agrees with me or not. I mean, I'm
pretty secure in my beliefs and my knowledge on that.
And and you know, do I know everything, No, But
I think I have a pretty good idea of how
to best approach you know, golf, fitness, golf rehab, you know,
and and knowing to this point has shown me enough
evidence for those things to make me change my mind.
(35:22):
And in fact, the more evidence I see just continues
to to you know, back up you know, my beliefs
on that, you know, And so you know, I'm pretty
outspoken there. I'm pretty you know, upfront about my beliefs
on that. And uh, you know, some of it is
kind of some emotional reactions at times, the things I
see that that frustrate me or kind of pissed me off.
(35:44):
But when you see it all day every day, you know,
sometimes by the same people, it's like, you know, it's
it's hard to kind of keep it in when you
know it's it's wrong. And like I said, I don't
know what their intent is, what their intent is putting
it out there, but I do know it's misleading and false,
and you know, I feel like part of being a
professional in this world, you know, I think that's our
(36:07):
job is it's a beauty of social media, is we
have access to more people. I think that's part of
our job is to provide that educational piece and kind
of clear up that stuff so that golfers are the
time they are spending in the gym, they are getting
results from it.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
For sure. Well, I know.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
At my marketing guy, my marketing team made me get
on Twitter about sixty ninety days ago.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
I withheld out for this long, but I enjoy watching.
I enjoy your post, so I read them step.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
I have to step away every now and then because yeah,
it's a little much, but that's funny.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
I've avoided it for over a decade. But they're like, now, dude,
we need you to go on there, and all right, okay,
here we go. So but anyway, guys, we'll put all
those you know, all the JP's you know profiles also
ways to follow him, connect with him, and then the
show notes and definitely go check out his stuff. It's
great and JP, I can't thank you enough for coming
on today and helping me dispel some myths, drop some
(37:02):
knowledge bombs.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
It's been a blast man.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Yeah, I'm glad to do it. I appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Awesome cool.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Well, everyone listening, thanks as always for hanging out with
this year on the Golf Inn this Bomb Squad, and
we'll look forward to catching you on the next episode.
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