Greatest Defenders of the 2010's Featuring Grant Williams

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think back to that Brooklyn, that series where I
joked with Kyrie when I got to the team of
Dallas and of those guys, and I'll be like, yo, like,
I really like locked y'all up when we.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Played y'all you're triggering with some bad memories right now.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
Hey we got swept. But that series was a lot
closer than people think.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yeah, y'all, if y'all win game one, we probably, like, honestly, like, realistically,
we might lose that series. Like, I look back to
that and I'm like, we went off a buzzer beater.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Turnaround, buzzer beater, layup, layup.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Next game, We're about like four.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
And I was hot that game.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
They took me out last possession defense and gave up
a layup.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
I was hot.

Speaker 4 (00:41):
We're back. It's another episode of Greatest of their Era.
I'm your Hostan Edwards joined with my co host what
up Self.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
It was good trade was going on my boys.

Speaker 4 (00:52):
Man, We're getting a lot of love online.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Man, I like, I'm liking the feedback.

Speaker 4 (00:57):
Man.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Were getting off to a good start talking some good hoops.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
A lot of people hit me up telling me they
reminiscent with some of the names of bringing up So
I think it's hot.

Speaker 4 (01:08):
Yeah, I mean we knew this, we knew this, but
you know, it's always good to get, you know, the
positive feedback immediately, and you know, nothing sells like nostalgia.
And now I think that's the best time because you
get a chance to reflect and put some respect on
some names of the past and the present. So, man,

(01:29):
we got we got a fun episode today. Man, we
got a special guest. You know that we're gonna bring
on a little later, but you know this episode is
going to be the twenty tens defenders.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Sir, twenty tens defenders. Man, I'm not you bring up
a curry. The first thing you don't think about is defense.
But I love the game. I know a little something
about it. So we're gonna LIS's just chop it up.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
Yeah absolutely, man. So you know how we even start
this show. We set the stage with a trip down
memory lane and some of the defensive teams that I
really want to highlight, you know, the great Grit and
Grind Grizzlies. You know, I mean TA first team All Defense,
those early twenty ten Pacers teams. You know, there was
a roadblock for that next team and then the Spurs,

(02:16):
the identity of the Spurs overall, you know what I mean,
playing as a unit, getting a young Kawhi at that time,
and just being a force in the front court. And
then obviously the mid to late Warriors, you know what
I mean, you got you got a chance to check
them out close and personal. So man, we got a
lot to discuss.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, that's an interesting decade when it comes to defense
and defensive players to me, because it's kind of like
of a transition halfway through the decade you kind of
had when those Warriors teams started trying to dominate. It
kind of went less about defending the post up, less
about big center defensive bigs like that, and the emphasis
turn on the versatility. Yeah, you know, you had those

(02:54):
small teams that were you had to switch one through five.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
It wasn't early in the decade. You kind of had
the who had two bigs.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
Like you said, the Grizzlies, grind defensive, defensive minded teams
that always had two bigs and did it, did it
rough and with size. But then you had, like I said,
later in the decade, it was switching one through five,
versatile bigs wings who could guard everybody.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
So it's a lot of names gonna bring up.

Speaker 4 (03:18):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean, well, I want to you know,
we talking about the word defense, and most people think
that it's not enough defense played in the NBA. But
I wanted to start the conversation off with interior versus
perimeter defense. So you know, I think that's a very
important discussion. I've seen earlier in the year where you know,
a player voucher saying that it should be two different awards,

(03:41):
you know what I mean, And obviously I don't. I
don't want to change that and change history and things
of that nature, but it is different and frustrating for
a guy that does most of the perimeter defense and
then sometimes the shot blockers can't defend on the wing.
Could you elaborate a little bit more on that, you
know what I mean, since you're the.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Professional now that makes it.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
It's because, I mean, just it's just the facts that
bigs make more of a difference as far as your
team difference and making the most impact on the floor.
But it seems like the guards, obviously you gotta have
ball and guards that that work hard and guard a
lot of the best guys in the league or point
guards and two guards. You gotta guard them, but they
can only do so much, you know what I'm saying.
So many screens being set. The bigs gotta guard to

(04:23):
guard the rim, and that really sets the tone for
your defense and what kind of defensive teams you're gonna be.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
So but there's different types of defending the rim.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
You got you got the Dramonds who defend the rim
with position, quickness, hands, They a little bit on the
perimeter and inside. And you got obviously the go Bears
the ads who kind of locked down the paint. So
I think, like I kind of agree with it with that,
with that point that was being made, Like you see
the market Smart winning the Defensive Player of the Year,
and it's such an anomaly because they never get that recognition.

(04:52):
But it was good to see every once in a
while guard win that win at award.

Speaker 4 (04:56):
You mentioned a player like Rudy Gobert. Why does he
get such like tough slack towards you know what I
mean him? And obviously most of the things I think
he does on defense is unstatic, right, you know what
I mean, because it's the change of the game, Like
a lot of guys would drive way more if he's
not on the floor, and fans don't see it that way.
They just see it from an offensive perspective and not
on the defensive side of like him being out there

(05:19):
and how much he changes it. So you faced Rudy
Gobert before multiple times in your career, what does he
change in your your your preparation of actually going to
the basket, or your team approach.

Speaker 3 (05:32):
It's a hot topic because he's so dominant during the
regular season, but obviously we've seen some playoff series where
he gets played off the floor and the teams are
basically targeting him. You think of a Defensive Player of
the Year candidate, one of the best defenders really to
ever do it as far as the accolades and all that,
and well, I'm in some honestly, I'm in some some huddles,

(05:52):
some some scout reports and coaches are saying bring Rudy up,
attack him, bring him out the pain, make him move,
things like that. So obviously he went and what three
four Defensive Player of the Year is all defensive team
every year, But.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
When you get to that playoffs, it's a different.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
You gotta you gotta move in space, you gotta guard
the guards, and that's that's.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
When that versatility comes into play.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
So it's a real sensitive topic when you bring up
Rudy good Bears is as far as do you think
he's one of the best defenders of all time, that
he deserved the awards, the accolades, something we could talk about.

Speaker 4 (06:27):
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, Well, you know, out of obviously with
the criteria and you know, the quality of influence and
basketball now in this era that we're specifically focusing on
is very offensive, like, yeah, it works in the offensive
players you know, favor, So it's not too many defensive
shares or our opportunities that you're going to get a

(06:49):
chance to win the quote unquote ball game. You get
a chance to stop them from winning the game. You
get a chance from holding them to you know, under
their prints per game and different certain positions where you've
created an opportunity for your team to get the ball back.
I think those are the real defensive wins when you're
thinking about basketball. So it's kind of tough, but we're definitely,
you know, with our guests joining, we're definitely going to

(07:11):
talk about you know, criteria and what it takes to
actually uh, you know, pretty much establish who's elite defenders
and who's good defenders and then who are the defenders
that are masked? You know what I mean, Because like
you think about Irisen, he led, he had high steals,
but there were very help side. He had long arms,
so he could kind of bait a little bit as

(07:32):
like a defensive back. It wasn't like he was just
picking pockets on ball all the time.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah, that's why defense is so subjective, like as far
as who you think of the best defenders, because it's
not really stats. I mean, you got steals, blocks, charges,
whatever it is, but you can't really look at, oh,
this guy average this amount of points for a game,
but he can't offensively and say he's the best defender.
I mean, you gotta really you gotta watch the game.
You gotta know the game. You got no schemes. And

(07:58):
then when you get on the floor with him, you
you know, you're here to talk around the league. You
know who's respected and who's not. What's the front you
know what I'm saying. So it's the topic that we
get into, and that's that's why I's so fun of
some fund of the bait and talk about.

Speaker 4 (08:13):
Yeah, my last question, what is the difference between the
early part of your career in the defense.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Now, I think early when I came into the game
to the league, first of all, it was like I said,
it was a lot less switching one through five.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
It was some switching like one through three a little bit,
but for.

Speaker 3 (08:31):
The most part, your matchup was your matchup, and you
guarded that guy throughout the game.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
If it was screens, you fall through all the screens.
If somebody tried.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
To target like me early in my career, guys obviously
being a smaller guard, and I don't really know who
my defense honestly, we got to the playoffs, teams try
to target me and try to get me off the
floor for my offense.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
But I was showing a lot you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
I would show, which is our heads, get out on
the screen, get back to my man, and the guy
guarding the main matchup would get back and keep the
matchup to say, because that's who we wanted to guard
him on that night. But now it's really just switch
switch everywhere one through five, saying help if you need to.
But really, if you can't guard all over the floor
for extended period of time, you're not gonna be able
to play, especially in the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
So yeah, that's that's the main difference in the league.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
Now until when I came into the league, is really
your match up with your matchup you had to go
to the ball hot guards that we're gonna talk about
later in the show. Who really followed the best players
all all the way around the court the entire game?

Speaker 2 (09:29):
What do you what do you see the difference are
from a fan perspective.

Speaker 4 (09:32):
I mean, obviously, you know, being in the paint and
more switches, and then obviously you know the changing of
the big, right, you know what I mean, you got
more small ball lineups and that's credit to the Warriors
and a couple of other teams that made that adjustment
and having guys more versatile. Right you have a six
seven guy being able to guard one through five, or
you know what I mean, a six to five guy

(09:54):
that may be just truly strong and could guard one
through five and move his feet and fight through screen
and do all these things and then tangibles to help
them win. So I think it's just different because obviously
the usage of the offensive big is different. The four
men's are more on the you know, outside than the inside,
So it's kind of leaving you out there to dry

(10:16):
and more help with the offensive player to kind of
have that freedom to kind of get to the basket.
So you really have to work, you know, your butt
off to really get a stop. And I don't think
a lot of people really appreciate that, you know what
I mean, especially with professional guys like yourself being able
to score at any point, like you might not even

(10:37):
play one game but come around and have twenty eight.
People don't understand that, like the idea that we got,
you know, Peyton Pritchard and Derek White scoring forty one
at any given night, anyone. It can happen for someone.
You guys are professionals for a reason. And you know,
depending on how you defend it, depending if somebody want
to disrespect you, depending on the motivation that you have

(11:00):
offensive player, you're going to approach the game differently.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
Another thing that came into this decade that I want
to talk about. I want your thoughts on this too,
is you really had the best defending your team usually
took the best officer player on the other teams.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
So like it was controversial.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
I remember around twenty fourteen fifteen, like Steph's not guard
cp CP not guard step Oh. I was on that
sidepgs need to be guarding pgs. And you know what
I'm saying, You have Klay taking the best guard on
the team every night, and it was like that all
over team the sixth the long wing was taking the
best the point guards weren't guarding Steph on the same
same token like and fans had a problem with it,

(11:36):
like they want to see the old school mon mono
matchups and that's kind of really out the window now.

Speaker 4 (11:41):
And you used to affect my top five, like when
people would say, yo, you know, I remember Steph winning
his first one. They ain't got the second one. They're like, yo,
he number two over Isaiah da da da dah. And
I'm like, yo, he don't defend bro, Like he don't
do you know what I mean? He ain't. He ain't
checking his guy, not saying that he don't defend like that,
but I'm talking about his actual match up to Fade.
So that's why I used to have Chris Paul higher,

(12:03):
Like I'd be like, yo, Chris Paul trying to defend everybody.
He's just that, not saying that. You know, the competition
is different, but it was just like that was something
that was a part of my debate of like this
is why you would get my stamp of approval. And
now I'm kind of loosened up because I just I
just look at basketball with a different eye and understand
the schemes and why the game is to win ball

(12:26):
games regards exactly. So that's how it should be. But
you just, you know, it's a personal bias and how
you want to, you know, change the criteria of who
you want to to put ahead of somebody, because all
these debates are all ego driven anyway.

Speaker 5 (12:40):
Yeah, in fact, all right.

Speaker 4 (12:42):
We're gonna take a break, but when we come back,
we have our special guests. Grant Williams showing.

Speaker 5 (12:46):
Us my boy.

Speaker 4 (13:03):
I want to welcome our special guests. Grant Williams, six
year vet for the Charlotte Hornets. One of the most
high IQ guys, defensive specialists, a guy that can guard
one through five. Like, I'm really excited to talk defense
with him because he fits the criteria. Grant, Welcome to
the show.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
I appreciate you guys, thanks for having me on. I'm
super excited to have this conversation and really decide to
dive in on the defenders of the twenty tenths because
I grew up Washington. But I also get to compete
against those guys now, and a lot of those guys
kind of molded the player that I am today, and
I got to give those guys their flowers, but also
talk about my experience as well.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Yeah, what's up, Grant?

Speaker 3 (13:42):
I wanted you to come on this bod because I
think like you're perfect for this topic right here. When
people think of Grant Williams now two way player, defensive minded,
I feel like a guy who transits different errors. You
can play in obviously it's getting done now, but he
could play in the twenty ten feel like I could
have played in the two thousands even the nineties with

(14:02):
his physicality on both ends. And another guy takes pride
on the defensive vand and can give us some great
insight onto what he thinks is a great defender, what
makes a great defender, and some of the people he
learned from.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
Now, I know there's a personal rivalry between you and Seth.
Tell me a little bit more about this.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
Well, the rivalry, I always tell seven, it's not really
a rivalry. His school never beat me like the difference
between us two is that, like I was undefeated agains
Charlotte Christian, he lost to Providence Day I think.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
Okay, First of all, he's what seven eight years younger
than me. I didn't even I went checking in on
none of the high school hoops when I was when
I was gone, so we didn't lace it up against
each other. He was playing against the youngest that. Charlotte
Christian is a different era. We're talking era. It's a
different era, yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
A different era, meaning his best player and what he
played was like what CJ. Leslie Holm know how old,
how far I can go back versus you know, we
had bam Adebayo, Harry Giles. You know, we had actual
names in our in our class that went.

Speaker 5 (15:00):
To the league.

Speaker 4 (15:01):
It's getting smoky in here. I heard I heard my
fire alarm at this point, speaking of different eras, Grant,
did you get a chance to watch Steff play in
high school?

Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah? You know what's crazy? Back then, I was all
from the public school hoops, so I started paying. I
knew like South and those guys in high school, like
I knew where they were, but I was always watching
like back then, JT. Terrell before them, like a West
Charlotte like the Olympic those schools, because I didn't know
what private school was back when I was growing up,
honestly until I went there my ninth grade year. So
I learned more after I went to When I played

(15:34):
a Sharotte Christian for the first time and I saw
Curry's Curry's jersey, and I was like, dang, both Curries
weren't here, and oh now I knew Mason Plumley and
my like all those went to christ School. I was like, go,
they got some hoopers in private school.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
We have to bring him back for the for the
the hoops state Mecca or whatever.

Speaker 4 (15:51):
The conversation. Listen, man here, y'all go. I don't want
to hear nothing about no North Carolina. Man, California, y'all
can't hold a candle to the sun.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
You do realize California is the size of a country.
But also we can name for the name.

Speaker 4 (16:06):
And here's the thing, we cut off north and South.
We still are better than y'all.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Like we just win name for a name, like best position,
best player at the position. We win each position.

Speaker 4 (16:21):
I just disagree. I just think that Curry point you said,
who Stephen Curry at point.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
I mean we can go to the top five.

Speaker 4 (16:30):
I mean we got real Russell at the five. Bro Oh,
I'm just saying like we got Michael, we got jas Harden,
Russell Westbrook.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
You're taking Michael, Jeffrey Jordan and James Harden.

Speaker 4 (16:44):
You got Mike, Mike.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
Come on, we don't got it. We can we can
keep going James Worthy, like, we have names, you don't
have to.

Speaker 4 (16:51):
I mean, the list goes off.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
What are we talking about?

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Heys?

Speaker 1 (16:55):
Respect You just named Paul Pierce to Jane Worth, one chip.

Speaker 4 (16:59):
To fortune, great team, great team player. Look, man, I
need a little bit more time just because I'm afforded
with all this talent. Man Like, I can't do no
starting five on the fly. But I will say this,
these names sound very familiar to you. Kawhi, Leonard, James Harden,
Damian Lillard, so Westbrook, Millard.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
Listen, Allen, first of all, save this for another five
a second. You gotta keep it in l a man
like this is you going up to nord cal.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Oh No, he could he could take all of He
could take all California south, because you do realize we
talked all of North Carolina. We got Michael Jeffrey Jordan,
Steph Curry, James Worth of Bob McAdoo, David Thompson, George Bayden,
like Williams Slate. We can keep going to bring him
back for that one.

Speaker 4 (17:43):
Yeah, man, it's gonna it's gonna be Marvel versus capcom
You already know it's gonna be good. Take cover because
it's a fade.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
And you wonder guy Marvel always wins, both in the
movies and in the comics. You know, if you forget
that North Carolina's QUI kid, I can keep going.

Speaker 4 (17:57):
Man, this goes on nothing but favorites lined up in
this game. Man, But you know, respect to you know,
North Carolina and Charlotte respectfully. You'll be back on the show.
I like it though. I like the energy you establishing
it early, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (18:14):
That You know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (18:16):
But I'm just gonna leave it at this that the
West is the best, you know what I mean. We
got we are, We are really the mecca of the pros.
But I'm gonna move on and we're gonna talk about
what we're discussing today, the greatest defenders of the twenty
tens era. So I want to get into some of
these key players, you guys both have it's just you

(18:38):
guys era, so you have experience playing against these guys
and you can kind of add in your mutual respect
and and personal stories if.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
You have something before we get in at what as
far as defense and the best defenders, what do you
look for when you gauging and rating the defender, Like,
what are some of the things you look for when
you say, oh, that's a real good defender.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
For me, I've always viewed it as versatil For me,
I struggle giving guys best defenders if they weren't able
to do both, Like they couldn't guard on a perimeter
and be able to defend the rim or at least
be physical at the rim. They might be the best
shot blockers, but they might have efficient way of guarding
with their hands, swiping steels, maybe reaching up top blocking
shots like Dayne Wade and those guys were some of

(19:19):
the best shot blocking guards. But like I struggle saying
like a guy like no offense like a sound white
side or guys like that or are the best defenders
of their era because all they did was protect the paint.
It is an elite skill to be able to be
a shot blocker, but I think those are their own labels,
Like a guy that's versatile enough to guard not only
a point guard but also defend the post up, like

(19:41):
that's something that is what we search for nowadays for
a reason, Like I think that's what changed about the
philosophy of the defense as the years have gone on.
It went away from oh, can you guard your man
to now, can you guard any man in the court,
And if you can guess what, we might go four
small guys in one big because everybody can guard every position.

Speaker 4 (20:00):
Is a defensive specialist still important in today's game.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
I think there's value, but you rarely see a defensive
specialists play like a high level of minutes, like the
thing that you see with nowadays. In order for you
to be a specialist, you have to not only specialize
in defense, but you also have to be able to shoot.
Like there's two specialties required versus prior and probably the
early twenty tens, you could get away with having a

(20:25):
guy like Thabo sef Losha or somebody on the court
keep bogans where it's like all they do is guard
the best player. But now with the spacing of today's
NBA and the need for it, like you match up
your five man with them, and now it allows a
guy like Rudy Gobert or a guy like a sound
White Side Dwight Howard be able to block shots at
a high level.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
I'm glad you brought that up, because when I go
through my ghosts, I can't have you on that list.
If you didn't give me nothing on the office event,
I feel like, to me, I feel like you're cheating
because if I went out there on the floor and
play thirty five thirty minutes, whatever it is, and I
wouldn't worry about offense at all, wasn't expending energy any
energy trying to get a bucket, I feel like I'd

(21:04):
be a hell of a defender, even me. So that's
that's that's that's the way I view it.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
My question for that would be, though, like what if
that is not designed departure part of your team? Like
what if the guy is capable of being a scorer,
Like you look at a guy like Jeremy Grant back
when he was on the Nuggets and he was guarding
the best player, but they realistic didn't need him to produce,
and then he goes to a team like Portland and
now he's getting fifteen twenty points a game.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
Jamon Grant's stress because he was still giving you double digits.
It wasn't like he went out there just sitting in
the corner.

Speaker 4 (21:35):
He can get ten or twelve for sure.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
So is that some guys.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Out there in the twelve? Is that like the number versus.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Give me something?

Speaker 3 (21:41):
There's some guys that I give you five, six really
not a threat at all on offense, not even.

Speaker 4 (21:46):
That rough that rough eight is kind of kind of
tricky because it's cardio. It's still in the cardio range.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
I mean, it always depends on the minute you plan.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
But you have some guys who literally weren't doing sitting
in the corner, the I don't know, the Cephalosius Robert
like some of that. That that fifth position on the
on the on the OKC teams, we're out there literally
for defense only.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
I have names for that, like uh Breonte Weber, like
tep Losha, Corey Brewers, like at the times looking by Mute,
like there were a bunch of guys that were like
averaging like six to eight points that like you never
were like, oh he's a deadly shooter or he's like
he might get an office rebound tipping, but like he
never really provided the offensive production.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yeah, and now you can't really do that no more
to day. If you can't, if you can't knock that
open shot like you said, or produce on offense, you can't.
You really ain't no spot for you in the league,
especially when you get to the playoffs.

Speaker 4 (22:38):
Agreed from a fans perspective, Why I feel sometimes I'm
looking at it and I'm definitely wrong I feel in
this part, but this is a hot take that defense
is negotiable, you know what I mean on the offense
because the offensive player could be very good and then
it's like he not a good defender, and that's okay.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Office is more important. That's just a fact.

Speaker 4 (23:02):
Like it's well, what but I feel like with effort
right because you mentioned you say, hey, if I get
a chance to focus on this, that and the third
we all grew up for doing it all and then
we reach a certain level and we're like, I'm a
which one you want? You want the twenty points a
game or you want this? You know what I'm saying,
So like, when did it get to that point or

(23:24):
is it like why is it there? You know what
I mean? Because I watch it, I'll be like, yo,
it don't take much to play defense. I think it's
but I do understand where the part of your using
that energy on offense.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
It comes to like the same thing Steff just said,
It comes to levels like how much offense are you providing?
Like as much as we argue that you know, let's
just say a former team of both of ours, how
much as we argue that Luca isn't a great defender
or an elite defender, like he controls and orchestrates the
entire oither side of the basketball, and it controls the

(23:56):
ball and to a point where like, yeah, you might
take a couple possessions off on defense, but that's what
the guys on this team are supposed to be reliable for.
It's a team game, you know. I think that's part
of how the NBA is played, is that like compared
to overseas, like you don't really have that level of
talent in the euro League, like where Luka donc those guys'
names where now they come playing NBA, Yokic and those

(24:16):
guys they draw so much attention. So like I think
there's only four or five guys you can go away
with that with in the NBA today. But realistically, like
outside of that, you see our other superstars guarding. Like
you see a guy like Anthony Edwards, I saw him
picking up mellow and I was like, oh, take credit,
Like he's really really good defender and plays physically like.
There's a couple of superstars in today's NBA that do both.

(24:36):
But you got to argue that the ones that don't,
they're just their top three player, top four player in
the league.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
Is it worth it? Is it? Are you giving us exactly?
Are you giving us enough on offense?

Speaker 3 (24:44):
Are you important enough to our team offensively to where
we're not gonna call you out in the film session
because you're not guarding, Like it's just Ironron rule when
you're going to some film sessions on some teams, Luca
not getting called out for defense most of the time
because he's spend an energy on offense. Same probably with James,
Same with a lot of superstars around the league.

Speaker 4 (25:05):
Yeah, I understand that. All right, speaking of superstars in
the league, we have some superstar defenders and we're gonna
start and kick this one off with Kawhi Leonard, now
Kawhi Leonard the Claw. He has the nickname the Claw.
Uh you know that's the viral clip of him checking
in and the you know, the matchup against Lebron the
finals and the Lebron's just like oh man, like yo,

(25:27):
this dude's coming back in again, Like how good? Telling
people how good Kawhi Leonard is As a defender.

Speaker 3 (25:34):
Whi monster literally like his hand like his hands are
so big and so strong when he puts one hand
on you, on your heap, on your arm. When he
grabs a ball, he gonna take it, you know what
I'm saying. So you got to be one of those guys.
You gotta be aware when he's in the action, especially
in his prime when he was really moving the feet
quick and all that.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
He can guard every position.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, I agree. He's arguably a top two defender of
that decade my opinion. Like you could argue he's number one,
but I got somebody else on the top of that list.
But in terms of like Kawhi, he was the guy
that you never questioned the ever he was going to
give his ability to be physical. He was like a
like og ndanobia is trying to be what Kawhi was

(26:17):
back then. That's kind of the best comparison I would say.
Today today's game, it's like a physical defender, be able
to fight through any screen, be able to get antest
any shot, and then kind of plays every player on
the court.

Speaker 3 (26:30):
You see Kawhi now the score he turned into. I
think when he came into the league, they would have
been fine with him being a fifteen point per game
score because he was so good on defense.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
Agreed, ain't thinking that. I don't even think Spurs thought
he was turning into this.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
I don't even think he had to get to fifteen,
to be honest, because he was just so effective on
turning you know, the defense into offense. But obviously, like
you say, you take your game to another level, which
that got him into the conversation of who's the best
small forwards?

Speaker 2 (26:56):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (26:56):
He's getting in that, he's getting mentioned with the Brons
and the Kds of the world, you know what I mean,
getting considered like that, You know.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
What I mean?

Speaker 4 (27:02):
So, yeah, man, dude, dude is a problem. Obviously. You know,
he's a winner. He's one on two teams and still
competing out there and respecting on the defensive end. The
next person we talked about guys that are able to
defend one through five, Draymond Green, tell us about Draymond Green.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
In my opinion, that's my number one just because like
you look at Draymond and no matter all the whatever
you're want to call it, antics, the physicality, like all
the things that he's done, like his ability to not
only command the defensive end from his vocal perspective. That's
another thing we don't talk about a ton is the
ability to control the entire scheme, whether you're talking calling

(27:46):
out other teams plays, whether you're in positions that other
players wouldn't be in, thinking the head of the game.
Like his mind on the defensive end, especially at his
peak as a defender, was comparable to those of the
best defenders of all time. And I think that his
versatility of being able to say, I'll guard Lebron tonight,
all guard Kyrie Tomorrow, now guard k Love, and then

(28:08):
I'll guard Tristan Thompson, to be able to switch or
playing center by center, I mean, like playing in a
drop coverage, like playing off the ball, letting the guy
come downhill at him. Like his versatility just allowed him
in the Warriors to have so much success.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah, his versatility is his defense is what made those
really what may those ward teams go? They would if
he could If he wasn't able to bang with five,
switch and do all that, they wouldn't be able to
play the small ball and have the death lineups, those
Tampa five lineups, they just don't work without Draymond.

Speaker 4 (28:39):
Yeah, how important is defensive IQ? Because I feel like
we talk about Draymond Green right now, and I feel
like he's one of the smartest basketball players active currently
and just kind of knows, you know, as far as timing,
being able to swipe at the ball at the right time,
as far as being able to get and god, you know,
kind of not a modern day Rodman to me, because

(29:00):
Robin obviously is a beast on the rebound in the end.
But from a defensive perspective, to be able to wall
up and body up and grant, I see some similarities
in a scenario of you being able to be able
to guard multiple positions and take pride, because I think
that that's a whole other thing in self in defense,
it's like being able to take pride. But how important

(29:21):
is IQ? In defense.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
I think it's one of the key points of being
an elite defender. There's differences between being a great defender
a good defender, versus being an elite defender that can
play at any point of the game. And I think
Draymond was that because of his ability to think. Some
our defenders are just blessed with size with their physical ability,
while others may not have those same virtues but are

(29:45):
able to then understand the nuances of the game. Does
this player prefer to go left? Does this player preferred
to stop in the mid range and stop and pull
rather than driving all the way downhill? If he does
go in to mid range, is the better to swipe
down at his pocket or is it better to contest
up top? Like? Those are the things is that I
feel like you have to think about not only for
just your matchup, but for each player on the team.
Like I know that in history, Like I I would think, like, okay,

(30:08):
if I'm going Kyrie, like I'm keeping my left hand
on his right right pocket and hopefully have success because
when it gets there, goes in versus KD might be
swiping down because I don't have the physical length to
jump and block and shot up top, so I'm swiping
before contestant, Like, these are the things that I have
to think about through the processes, and I think that
the best defenders think about that over time.

Speaker 5 (30:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
Yeah, the best defenders are robots. Talk about like you said,
dray mindh he kind of made up makes up his
own rules and definitely did that back in the day
because offense and officer players are so good. If you
just follow the scout reporter, stick to the same schemes
over and overall game, they're gonna figure it out. So
sometimes you got to make stuff up on the fly,
try to trick the offense, anticipate stuff, and Draymond was

(30:52):
the king of like making up a defense and then
orchestrating to the rest of the team. I'm doing this,
y'all gotta have me on the backside.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
And the last thing I'll say about Draymond on top
of IQ, like, there's certain players who have a level
of mental warfare. I think they play like I look
back to Shane Battier and how he remember how he
always talked about Kobe and how he instead of contesting
his ball, he would just smack it, like put his
hand across his face and play him to the mid
range and things of that nature, rather than things that
like Draymond, for example, he would just walk out and

(31:23):
bump a guy on the court and the player would
be like what the heck to the official, rather than
looking to compete back to Draymond. So, like, I think
that intimidation factor, especially at his peak, was so high
that some defensive players, offers of players didn't even really
feel like competing with some while others took it as
a challenge and took it with pride. So that's why
I think some of our best basketball was played in
that twenty fifteen to eighteen years because you had both

(31:46):
players on both teams, whether it was bron whether it
was you know, those Spurs teams like fully taking the
challenge of saying like, yeah, you want to play hard,
you want to play dirty, or you want to do
whatever you want to do, we'll do the same.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (31:57):
Absolutely all right. This guy right here, he's going to
the Hall of Fame, wins a bunch of awards.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
Rudy Gobert, you take that up, Rudy, I mean that
this is the controversial one.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
Is he is here?

Speaker 4 (32:10):
Yeah, this is the one is here? The one.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
He got all the accolades.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
At the end of the day, he gonna be one
of the most decorated defenders of all time. Like all
defense teams, the defensive player of the Year is all that.
But honestly, around the league, he's not really respected like
that by a lot of offensive players, especially when we
get to the playoffs. Like it said, the versatility isn't there,
but he's he's he's man some of the best defenses

(32:35):
in the league, especially during the twenty tens when he
was in Utah. There's no reason those defense should have
been that good like that. You look at the individual
defenders throughout that team, not all not that great, but
Rudy really Rudy in the paint, locking up, the locking
up the rim, blocking all those shots, and he had
that intimidation factors. Anytime you get in the lane, you
gotta find where is Rudy before I go up and finished,

(32:58):
because he might be at a blocking shots. So you
got to give him respect in that sense. But I
mean everybody has a different opinion. I think I give him.
I give him his respect though, because also he's improved
throughout his career, his footwork, being able to move on
the perimeter.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
He's not.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
He's not anymore now in today's NBA. He's not really
just a stand in the paint type guy anymore. He
knew he had to get quicker, move his feet a
little bit more, and he's gotten better at it.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
I think that the best way to describe Rudy is
that like he was the best schematic defender of the decade,
because like Quinn Snyder and those Utah teams, like they
did a phenomenal job of just understanding that we can
get guys off the three point line and put Rudy
at his best. That's what he's going to make him successful.
And I think that's part of the reason why he
won those three Player of the Year awards, because it

(33:46):
was around that time where teams were transitioning, like you
saw that kind of change, but understanding like, oh, maybe
we do need a fifth shooter, maybe we can't play
a big like we have been. And I think as
the years went on, that's where you saw Rudy start
getting worse and worse on the defensive and he capitalized
on his movement. And I think that as like if
he played earlier in the years, I think that he
might have been a worst defender as well, just because

(34:08):
like his physicality when it's first he first came into
the league didn't match that of Kevin Garnett, didn't match
that of a shack of those players. So he kind
of was in that perfect timetable where like all the
dominant quote unquote bigs were panning out, especially offensively dominant
like Dwight Howard was around, but he was never a
post player like so all the offensive bigs. Al Jefferson

(34:29):
was kind of on a later age of his career
like those names were moving out.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
So my rookie year, I played against Rudy in the
GLE like he was down there a lot his rookie year.
My rookie year, I was in the GV he was
coming down from the Jazz. But he wasn't nothing like
he was. He wouldn't defender, He was definitely nothing on offense.
So his his rise has been crazy.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
I think that is perfect.

Speaker 4 (34:53):
I mean, I think that's a good point for you
to point out too, is you know, I mean, it
didn't come overnight. He wasn't just immediate person to just
terrorize the league or be the person to protect the
paint right there. I mean it was growth and to
get to that point. And I think the interesting part,
you know what I mean, you guys obviously showing respect,

(35:14):
but the right time, right place for him to be
able to be in a situation to succeed. Do you
feel like it's a skepticism of like, obviously he's going
to I mean, with this on paper, he's going to
be a Hall of Famer, you know what I mean,
Like when you really look at it, but like as
you as competitors and you see it and you look

(35:36):
at it like, Okay, I understand, but I as we
make these top five lists, he starts to trickle a
little bit down as far as criteria just because of
the advantage that he got in that specific time.

Speaker 3 (35:49):
To me, yeah, we're talking about we have this segment
born in the wrong era. He was in the perfect era.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
I think like.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
Earlier he had to debang the shacks, the post stuff big,
so might've been able to take advantage of them a
little bit with their size. And then I'm sure now
the more spacing or whatever, it's gonna spread them out
a little bit more. So I'm gonna we're gonna give
our top five later and we're gonna see it be
in there.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
Right place, right time, moving right along a dog.

Speaker 4 (36:18):
Tony Allen first Team All Defense. Tell me about Tony.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
Allen, Tony to me was the typical twenty ten's best,
like one of the best defenders. Didn't give you much
on offense, but defensively, you knew if if Tony was guarding,
he was following you all over the court the whole game.
Year guys way Kobe talked about him. A lot of
those main guys in that era who played against him,
they had the ultimate respect for him because they had

(36:43):
they knew they had a long night when Tony was gardening.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
And I think that the level like you see that
with a couple of guys in today's NBA, but the
level of pride that came with Tony Allen's job, I
think changed his entire like art complete different view of
him because not only was he taken the best guard
like he didn't care if he was mashed up against
ze Bo, his own teammate, like he was battling like

(37:06):
like it was his last breath. And I think that's
why we all respect, like every single player across the
league respects him because he was versatile, but he was
also just like no matter who he was matched up against,
you knew that he probably had the edge. And that's
crazy to say because he got at Kobe, he got
a step, he got in everybody, but like they were like,
I don't want him to guard me, so come screen

(37:28):
him and get him off me. Yeah, that's how good
of a defender he was.

Speaker 4 (37:33):
Yeah, I think that's that's just a great nod to
what the grit and grind process in Memphis, you know,
creating that whole identity. I mean, you know it's real
scruffy and like I said.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
What kind of player was Tony in college? Because I
feel like he was a bucket in college. He wasn't
really like the defender type. But then he transformed his
whole persona in his whole game kind of when he
got to the league to carve out a row.

Speaker 4 (37:56):
I think Eddie Sudden more so just kind of told
him like, if you want to be in the NBA player,
you're gonna have to do this. And I think he
mentioned it on his show with Zebo about just kind
of getting into that whole mode of like what it
takes to be an NBA player and truly buying in
because again, most of you guys can score. I mean
it's you know, you can ask somebody and him he

(38:18):
average thirty. You know what I mean. They don't understand
the process of like when you get to that certain level,
what is going to make me the money for the
rest of my career? As I can do this. I
am a specialist at this said thing. This is what
I'm going to do. I play with this player who
actually does this at a Hall of Fame level. It's
no need for me to do this. For me to
even get on the floor, I have to make these

(38:39):
adjustments to my game to do these things, you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
So you have granted for that conversation too, because he
I flight out bucking in college play the year, throwing
them ball on the post, io on going to work
and then he kind of you kind of had to
figure out your role in the league as far as
being one of the best defenders on the team. What's
that curve like coming into the league and kind of
changing your play style a little bit.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
I think that's the hardest part with a lot of guys.
It's a steve learning curve. Like for me, I didn't
come in with the expectation that I was going to
be a defensive like guy in this league or a
person that was like not going to shoot the ball
or get the ball in isolation, like be able to
have plays ran from him. Like I got to the
Celtics and I had Kemba Walker, Gordon Hayward, Jason Tatum,

(39:24):
Jaylen Brown, Like that was for the guys, not including
market Smart on my team. So like I remember having
conversations with my coach then, Brandon Bailey. He said, listen, like,
if you want to play on this team and you
have the opportunity to play a lot, like you don't
have to show that you can guard in the perimeter.
So we the entire summer, I didn't even really work
on anything besides like footwork like I was doing ladder drills.

(39:45):
I was doing like shuffles, like I was doing stuff
that like no one's like choosing to do this in
a workout. Like if you were a twelve year old
kid and your coach was like, hey, listen, we're not
going to touch a ball today. How would you feel?
So like that's where like and for me, I just
bought into it. And I think that's why I like
as the league. Has I've grown into the league, I
started to understanding you can do both. But like those

(40:07):
first two three years, that was my only focus is
like I'm just gonna guard and she if I make
a shot, I make a shot. So Dallas, I've gotten
moved and I've traded, you know, to Dallas and I
moved to Charlotte. Like being able to do both, like
having that freedom to then say like, oh, dang, I
can score twelve but also for fifteen, but I also
can guard the best player. Like that kind of took maturity.
But like most guys come into the league thinking I'm

(40:29):
just gonna get buckets and that's gonna keep me on
the floor. Like I had four or five rookies with
me my rookie year, and each one thought that the
scoring output was probably how they were going to perform.
But then they realize, I know, as we've had later conversations,
that it was really defensive end that keeps you in
the league and it makes you stick.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
I'm happy for you, because not me. I want to
do defensive slides in summer.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
The only time I did a defensive slide was that
first day of training camp.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
I was working on the j.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Must be nice because you do realize you were an
elite shooter. I was like, in college, I think I
should like Howard many threes. I think I can kind
of on how many hands. So like that's where I
came in. I was twenty five or seven three my
rookie year. That next year was the one that took
the jump to thirty seven, thirty eight forty. So like
that first year was all like, I'm ana lock up,

(41:17):
yelp this court, to play beside these guys. And then
after that I make it take work.

Speaker 4 (41:21):
I'm not even gonna lie to you, grant, I was
not familiar with your game. I don't watched no college
for a minute, so I was like, why is he
shooting a three? And then one time you was going crazy.
I said, all right, I'm put some respect because you
spreading the floor. That makes it so, you know what
I mean. Because again, as a fan watching, especially if
you haven't followed the journey or you don't look at
the transition of like yo, if you don't remember this

(41:43):
player could do this then and the third and it
puts things into perspective because you are buying into the
role that the team is asking you to do, but
also you want to play and finish games. You want
to be on the floor, you want to you buying
into the thing. Like you mentioned, Yeah, you could score,
You always could score. This is how you got to
the league. But now being drafted, in the situation you're in,
they're asking you to do this, and the only way

(42:06):
you play is if you do this, because that's showing
your professionalism and also just accepting the adversity of early NBA,
you know what I mean, because it's not going to
always go your way. It's very rare that you get
the keys immediately handed to you, you know what I'm saying,
and going in that situation speaking of a player that
had the keys handed to him and has answered every time.

(42:28):
How good is Lebron James on defense? We see the
chase down blocks, we see the switches. Obviously he's forty
years old doing amazing. I'm forty and I can't do nothing.
I ain't touching the court no more. But this guy,
I don't understand how he does it, has the energy
could guard one through five. Tell me about Lebron James
as a defender.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
So for me, I view it as like I've gotten
older Lebron, and he's a more like mindful defender because
Lebron doesn't really like his activity has changed completely since
when he was twenty twelve, twenty eleven. I the deserved lease,
so he's forty something years old. But I looked back
to the twenty tens when he was really guarding, and

(43:10):
I always remember like he was a physical defender, but
I don't necessarily say that he was the best defense.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
In the pass and lanes.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
He was athletic, he picked his spots kind of like
he does now, but he was you had to be
manful away. It was that because he was in the
passing lanes and he would come from across the court
the black shots too.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
So he reminds me of like the way Jimmy Butler's
in passing lanes wins on the heat, Like he was
just like always anticipating, Oh, you're about to make his pass,
I'm out and then I get a wide up and
dunkin transition versus he was never like on ball point defender.
And I think that's the difference is because there's some
defenders who just know how to think the game so
like they're low man and then all of a sudden

(43:47):
the pass is going to be in the air, they
know to make a little jump on it, while others
are more kind of conservative and might not try and
make that steal. So I think Lebron's always been that
guy that's like, Hey, if I have a chance to
get it, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna just get
a wide up a transition left. It doesn't happen. And
guess what, I had Chris Bosh or somebody behind me
to help me.

Speaker 4 (44:04):
You guys mentioned Jimmy Butler. I see that in the
similarity of like the effectiveness of passing lanes and just
being there and kind of you know, Jimmy sacrificing his body,
Lebron doing that a little bit later in his career,
but like just being all over and obviously another I
can see the trajectory of him at Marquette being asked
to score and do certain things, and then when he's
playing with Derrick Rose and Joe Kim Noah and lou

(44:26):
All dang and and just to fight for minutes to
get on there, he had to become a defender, and
similar to the Kauhi thing, the offense kind of changed
into that, you know what, I mean, so now he's
made a living there and he's in Golden State now
you know, potentially you know, competing and actually sticking to
the role because they got Steph you know what I mean,
And Dre's actually having him look at the defensive schemes different,

(44:50):
so he's going to become a better defender being able
to talk with him and saying, hey, what do you
see out there that I'm not seeing? So Andre just
got his jersey retired with the Golden State Warriors. Was
a good offensive player with the Philadelphia seventy six ers
in Denver Nuggets, and then he comes to the Warriors,
signs as a free agent and accepts this role and

(45:14):
it's you know, he actually won Finals MVP as a defender,
you know what I mean, which is still one of
the controversial, you know, conversations to this day. I mean
that I marked that up as one of the greatest
basketball games I've seen with my own two eyes in person,
is at that twenty sixteen Game seven Finals in Oakland.
But Iggy, let's talk about Iggy and his impact with

(45:39):
the Warriors defense along with Treymont, you know what I mean,
Like how how they orchestrated that defense into being one
of the one of the greatest defenses we've seen.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
Jiggy got some of the best hands out of ball time,
like his being able to strip guys or the ball
and the paint. You think he had a position, but
the last minute he getting to steal. He going the
other way. And like you said, he got that Finals
MVP mainly because of the defense and the work he
was doing on Lebron. Following around that whole series, like
that's literally I always say that's probably the highest level

(46:08):
of basketball I've ever seen one through five on both ends,
and those battles between him and him and Brian, even
though Bron averaged forty, he was he was doing a
good job.

Speaker 4 (46:20):
That's a tough assignment. Think about that, how locked Bron was.
Bron came through with the with the risk guard after
game one and still is locked. Like I'm looking like, Okay,
I don't know what is going on. I'm in that building.
Especially the intensity was there, and Grant mentioned like that
twenty fifteen to twenty eighteen, like it's just intention, yeah,
and not saying that you know there's anything wrong with

(46:43):
twenty twenty five, but just the intention of like competition
on both sides, the actual physicality, the actual attention to detail.
You fall asleep, you lose the ballgame that bad, like
that every possession counted.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
I feel you got to put Clay in that conversation too. Absolutely,
those that era of defense, Clay was one of those guys.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
I think that's the difference between today's NBA and like
eight years ago, ten years ago. It's just a level
of focus the team's played with, understanding the value of
putting into every single game and taking every game seriously.
And I think that as the league has gotten younger
a little bit, we haven't necessarily taken that same approach
and an approach to watching film, an approach to understanding

(47:25):
why things are valuable. But like a guy like Andrea
Gadala and Klay Thompson, like, I think they're considered the same,
like really great close to elite defenders. I honestly they
could both argue to be elite, like because I look
to Andre and I learned a lot of the things
that I do from both him and Draymond. Like the
only reason why I swiped down as much as I

(47:45):
do on shots is because of Dre and how he
did it. Both Debron whether any game, just to catch
guys off guard, he would swipe down off his right
hand contested his left. That's the only reason why I
started doing that. And Draymond, being the positional man got
that he was. That's kind of how I emulate him
as well. So a guy like Clay had the best,
one of the best, some of the best feet of
guarding someone back then too. So like those three are

(48:09):
just crazy to be on the same team, but also
like it was special to watch, and that's why I
always like compare, Like I'm a big Like I try
and compare like myself to what guys were, and I'm like,
I still have a ways to go, because I can
serve myself a great defender, Like, but I don't consider
myself an elite defender because similar to what you said,
like Dre was doing a phenomenal job of holding Brown

(48:30):
to forty. Like I look, I was saying to thing
self about this the other day, Like I'll Guardiannis and
he'll have thirty six or twenty six and it may
not be efficient, but it's like, dang, he better than
the other guys did. So like that next step is
when do you get to a point where you're like
a I look at guys like IRV Jones Drew Holliday
where it's like, ooh, they held guys to eight, they

(48:50):
held guys to twelve.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
You got pride to be one of those defensive guys
because you look at a guy like we're gonna talk
like another guy. This might be Pat ben who taking
that assignment all game and you look at the stat
sheet at the end of the game, he going steph
CP dame and he getting cooked like they got thirty
thirty five. But you gotta respect his defense because he

(49:13):
might get a key stop at the end of the
game and that's all he gonna talk about in the
post game pres consas how he got the big stop
to win him the game and whatnot. So he ain't
have pride as far as they gonna he gonna get
some buckets put scored on him. But when he get
those two three stops in a row, he gonna let
you know for sure.

Speaker 4 (49:29):
I think it's the mentality though, like again, you have
to be able to be okay with not you know
what I mean. It's not a tit for tat type thing.
He's not gonna get the ball back and get a
chance to go at him. It's like, how do I
get these certain opportunities to win? You know what I mean? Like, yes,
I frustrated him, there's a charge he ran me over.
Oh he lost the ball. I got the You know

(49:50):
how I was able to do those type of things
if we won the game, I did my job. Yes
he had thirty three. I can't do nothing about that.
D Again, elite score versus good defenders. When you get
to elite defenders and you can cut somebody water off,
that's a different type of thing because you know who,
you know what, you know. I was watching the We

(50:12):
Beat the Dream Team doc and it talks about how
Michael Jordan just said, you know what, all right, Alan Houston,
you're not going to score. And we know Alan Houston
can score. But the idea that you're saying, hey, you're
not going to score, that just takes a different level
of commitment. But you also have to have your team
all the way locked in. Obviously he's playing with the
Dream Team, so it's a little different to be able
to commit and give that type of energy. Kobe did

(50:34):
the same thing with Team USA as well, but that
type of thing of Garden Night in and night out,
elite guys being understanding, understanding that they may have had
thirty five, but you're getting up every night being able
to defend, fight through screens, swipe down, get ran over.
You know you made it tough for them. That's what

(50:56):
you paid to do. You can't call nobody, no bum,
You can't call nobody anything else, because nobody from the
couch can do that. You know what I'm saying, Like,
these guys are literally average sixty seventy if they walked
into a wreck and just played against an average joe.
So you gotta give your hats off to the defenders
that's out there every night with actual effort. If you

(51:16):
got two three steals, you've changed the possession. Y'all was
still able to win in a close game. You got
that win for the night. I'm gonna parade, I think,
And that's also the media job. I'll take full responsibility
on that end. As far as how do we talk
positive about defense in the game of basketball. How do
we reward those defenders not only to help y'all get

(51:36):
paid more, but also to help promote the game and
inspire the next generation to actually want to play defense.
Because if we just say, hey, it only looks sexy
to have the ball in your hand and be able
to have a bag, and you know what I mean.
But what about the guy that actually has to defend?

Speaker 3 (51:54):
On top of that, I think late twenty ten's early
twenty twenties is the hardest era to be, especially a
perimeter defender, because all the rules are your favorite. Of
the offense, you're gonna get the benefit of the doubt.
And two main things. One the foul band you got
James Harden that the whole time when he was you

(52:15):
literally couldn't put your hand out or he was gonna
find a way to get a draw foul, so you
couldn't really guard him. And two, the pickup points came
so out when Steph and Dane and Kyrie and now
you got all these other guards who shooting from thirty feet,
the pickup points came out, and you got to you
gotta couple way more ground defensively. So as a guard

(52:36):
trying to try to guard this era of guards, like
I said, mid when most of them came into the
league mid twenty tens, there was a nightmare, so you
gotta get them. There was guards like some of the
guys on our key list, the Aby Bradley's, Pat BEVs.
Drew Holidays, the guys who gotta guard those guys every
single night. You got tippy cats on them.

Speaker 4 (52:58):
Yeah, absolutely, all right, when we come back, we're going
to talk a little bit more about your mentality on
defense and how to win a matchup.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
In this era.

Speaker 5 (53:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
Man, So I really enjoyed this conversation about the greatest defenders.
I hope like you guys got your top five lists
coming up, you know what I mean. We're going to
talk about that in a bit, But I really wanted
to talk about the mentality on defense, Like how do
you prepare as a defender night in, night out? Like
what preparation goes into defending some of the best offensive

(53:48):
players this game has ever seen.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
I think what goes into really guarding in today's era
comes down to understanding people's tendencies and understanding people's on
The mentality is the best way is contemperament is best
way I describe it because like a guy like Kevin Durant,
like people always talk about he is the best scorer

(54:12):
I think ever in my opinion. But the things that
he dislikes, right, he dislikes a lot of physicality and
to a point where like you have to be over
physical and be willing to take a couple of fouls
to try and take him out of his mentality of
saying I'm just gonna like get to where I want
to go, Like make it very very difficult just even
coming out of a huddle just for him to take

(54:33):
two steps. Well, other guys may not necessarily care about
the physicality and may not even try and foulbait, Like
I look at the guy like Kyrie, who honestly you
rarely see him just throw his body around or fall
or flail, and you have to be more technical on
how you guard him, Like he's always going to counter
what you do, so like you be mindful of your positioning,
you'd be mindful of where he wants to go, like

(54:53):
with spots he's choosing, like he might not ever drive
to help defense, So you have to rely on the
people around you, Like each person that's different, and the
best defenders I feel like, consider not only what they
like to do. So if a guy likes to go
left or likes to go right, or pulls up going
to his right and goes downhill to his left, those
are the things that a great defender thinks of but

(55:14):
also considered all the other variables around them too.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
Yeah, you talk about tendencies.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
That's key because I like submid twenty twenty tens or
especially now, there's so many less plays being ran, like
it's a lot of randomness offensively so by say, in
the nineties, you knew the plays. It was really came
down to guarding the play and then being able to
guard to guy one on one. But now there's so many,
so much stuff can happen on the office of play

(55:39):
might be a backcut, slip screen, whatever it may be.
You never know what's gonna happen because it's like I said,
it's not plays being called, it's just randomness on offense
taking advantage of whatever happens on that possession. And I
don't know if Grahat would agree with me or not,
but that's another reason why so hard to be a
defender in today's there.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
I agree, trust me fully, because you have a guy
that might be very, very technical and like he might
be a great screener. Well, other guys like you see
a lot of times in today's NBA you're like, why
is Mark Williams guarding this guy because he can still
shoot three at forty something percent. It's like maybe because
this guy never set screens. So the guy that's point
of attack defender on the best player can still be

(56:20):
that because the person that's setting is never going to
set it. So that's part of the tendencies too, is
like how do we match up from the defast perspective
because we know it's gonna be random, But if they're
going to hunt our mismatches, who do we put our
worst defender on? Who do we put who do we
match up with? Also? How do we attack the person
that has the ball? Like Shaye Yogis. I remember there
was one time in Boston where they were match up

(56:41):
hunting and they were always one point bringing up Alhalford,
which I don't think you should ever do, but you know,
I think Al was having a poor game defensively that night,
and I may just said, you know what, OW, you're
going to guard him point of attack. And so now
it's like, do you want to start your possession off
for twenty four seconds just trying to start from ISO
or are you going to say let's run action, try
and bring him back and then you know, try and

(57:03):
figure it out that way, like it's just you have
to be considering all options.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
Yeah, it's so much more experiment going on defensively too
with these coaches.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Yeah, I remember.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
I remember for early on them when I first got
into the league, on seventy five percent of the possessions,
I could look over to the coach they've given out
their sonca over to the coach, that's time. We will
play there about the run and we'll be able to
scheme it or take away their first option, whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Now that's rarely the case.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
I can really look over there and say, oh, they're
running a side pick and roll pinned down.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Now, it's like I said, it's so random. You never
know what's going to happen.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
I looked to our game a couple of nights ago,
and after you know, the Warriors they run the same
play called WTF the entire past seven years or eight
years of being an NBA. But then you have Draymond
and stuff come together and just say something and I'm
screaming out counter, counter because you know that they're not
running the same thing, and Steph will then slip out

(57:58):
and trying to a three po line, but or he
might just come around and do a back door, like
just so much more kind of seeing the game than
there was before, where I feel like it was a
little bit more robotic, where it's like we're running a
pen down and you're coming off this because I drew
this play up, and if you don't come off of it,
because I'm taking you out the game. Like coaches were
a lot more kind of not like controlling, you know,

(58:19):
compared to nowadays coaches just like, hey, yeah, you play
the game and make make make plays how you make them.

Speaker 4 (58:26):
You ain't got too much breathing room. You either win
or you get fired. Straight up, how do you go
into approaching winning a matchup?

Speaker 1 (58:35):
For me, I think winning a matchup comes down to,
you know, the outcome of the game, but also just
they're there after the game, there is a player exhausted
and did he worked for Like did you make a
much of an impact on that player or that person
that you're assigned to, Where no, you made an impact
against him, but you made an impact on the actual

(58:56):
play style of the game. Because a lot of times
you go into a game you're like, Okay, Anthony Edwards
is gonna take twenty six shots, so he might make
fourteen twenty of them, but were they difficult? But also
like did he not was he not able to do
all the other things he wanted to do? Like I
always talk about Jokic and he's a guy that, like
I think you lout to score eighty Like, give yo,
let Jokis get eighty six points, because if he gets

(59:19):
twenty six with twelve assists, not only is he busting
your tail on the most efficient clip, but also the
players around the Michael Porter Junior, Aaron Gordon are making shots.
So rather just Garden, I always say, guard him in isolation,
and you're gonna might get you, might get sixty on you,
and he might beat you in the game. But hey,
you're taking your risk of saying, hey, he's the best

(59:40):
player in the world. Let's guard and let's see it,
not up and see who has the better day.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
I remember Steph telling me that was that philosophy doing
those those finals matchups with the Cavs back in the
day when Brown was going off or whatever and Bron
and Kyrie and like, man, y'all gotta send double I'm like,
y'all got to double them when y'all just gonna let
Bron and Kyrie Iso all game and forty forty, but
like that's the philosophy. They're gonna score regardless, but you
don't want to You don't want to give up Kevin

(01:00:05):
Love j R. Smith Kyle Kover Three's all game too.
You don't want them having thirty and fifteen or forty
and fifteen. You got to give up one another. So
you got to be like I said, as a defender,
Clay Iggy had to be okay going home sometimes getting
thirty five dropped on their head, but win a win.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Yeah, that's how I look at it. Every single day.
It's like I look up, it's like, dang, he really
got forty two right now, But listen, we're up by twelve,
so I'm not mad at it. Like you gotta be
able to swallow your pride a little bit too, because
not only is the person to be talking to you
at the same time, because like you're considered this great defender,
you're considered this guy that's like mashed up against them.

(01:00:43):
But it's like it's really comes down to the outcome.
It really comes down to it, and you got to
be able to say, you know, I did my job,
no matter if I look up he has sixty, or
I look up, he has twelve.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
Yeah, basketball is a team sport. Remember that. I think
we always drive the individual part of it, but it's
a team sport and the team has to win and
that's all that matters. Do you have a favorite basketball story,
especially like defensive, like winning your defensive matchups that just
probably either worked in your favor or went really bad

(01:01:12):
and it was just a long night for you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
I feel like I have more bad in today's NBA,
just because, like you look up and you're like, you
play so many games, it's like you're locked in. You
might hold a guy to twelve one night, then you
play Steph the next night he has forty two. So
it's like for me the ones that stand out, Like
I look to playoffs more than anything else because I
feel like those bad are the most and I feel
like I was a playoff. I've been a playoff riser

(01:01:36):
throughout the course of my career, both defensively and offensively.
So I think back to that Brooklyn Net series where
I joked with Kyrie when I got to the team
of Dallas and staff of those guys, and I would
be like, yo, like I really like locked y'all up
when we played, y'all and they're like, come on, man, y'all,
it's double team, and I said, no, we never double team.

(01:01:57):
Go back and watch the film, like it was like
we might smoke show help.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Yeah, yeah, double Now.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
I was in the serial album in the series, and
I was one of the guys y'all wasn't doubling off of.
But y'all sent y'all were in every gap, so they
probably felt like they were being double a triple team,
but it wasn't full out like come over and double yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
So that's where I was like, I guarded an isolation
and took pride in it. But there was a lot
of times where like it was like, oh, wing by yourself.
He threw somebody out, like Bruce Brown, get out the way,
and it's like I look back to it. I always
look at this clip and it makes me like prideful
in it too, just because like Katie's dropping to his
left hand like he's about to go shoot, and I
swiped the ball his hand off his leg and I'm
screaming like hype because like this is the beginning of

(01:02:40):
the game, game four and we're ready to sweep these
guys and like that like moment kept giving me confidence
that that entire game, no matter what was happening. And
I remember, like there was a time where Katie hit
a heasy pull and I like contested. It's like swipe missed.
I was like I was on P's and Q's that night,
and that's like one of my favorite games I played
in even though like there's better games, like we're offensively

(01:03:02):
it might have been better, but like defensively, that's probably
one of my favorite games that I've played.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
That you're triggering with some bad memories right now, Hey,
we got sweat, but that series was a lot closer
than people think.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
Yeah, y'all, if y'all win game one, we probably, like honestly,
like realistically, we might lose that series. Like I look
back to that and I'm like, we won off a
buzzer beater turn of layup. Next game we went by
like four.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
And I was hot that game.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
They took me out last possessions defense and gave up
a layup.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
I was hot.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
And then game two were up seventeen to eighteen in
the second half of y'all came back and one laps.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
So yeah, so I looked to that, and I'm like,
that was a crazy like because everybody was trying to
avoid y all that year, and I remember that. I
think that gave us confidence to get to the finals
that year because like everybody was afraid of the nets.
Then that next series we played the Bucks. They were
fought Chris Middleton, of course, but like we went into
that series and we should have probably beat them in
five for four, but we tricked off three games. As

(01:03:59):
that year we did a lot. And then the same
thing with that Miami Heat series. We should have probably
beat them at five and we tricked off two or
three games. It's not really focusing, and we got some
finals and we lost.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
The reason they run off the bigs, the run off
the bigs at the era, we skipped like the yeah,
key big yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:04:14):
So some of the key bigs, you know, because's pressed
for time as well. So we got Joe Kim, Noah,
Marc Gasol, Dwight Howard, you know what I mean, Rudy
Gobert obviously we mentioned and those four are super pivotal.
Tyson Chandler as well came mention, got got a shoot
Tyson Amita's high rep.

Speaker 6 (01:04:33):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:04:34):
You know those guys a couple of defensive Player of
the Year winners in there. We're super effective, had some
great years and defensive anchors for their teams. So they
definitely need to nod as far as you know, tier
tier two or tier three in this go list. When
we come back, we're going to give our goat top five.
It's gonna be some disagreements. I'm ready to discuss our

(01:05:08):
goat go top five.

Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
I run on off first, all right. My number five
Drew Holliday, probably one of my favorite defenders of the
twenty ten, still going to this day. Just one of
those guys who hawks you all night, gets through every screen,
just a monso on the defensive end. Number four Lebron,

(01:05:31):
Number three Tony Allen two is a D, the best
college defender I've ever seen, and then one of the best,
definitely one of the best NBA defenders to ever do it.
And number one is the guy himself, Draymond Green. Okay,
Drew Bron, Tony Allen a D and Draymond Green in one.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
Well, it's funny because I think I only have one
or two technically that are similar. So number five slot
is Anthony Davis. My number four slot is Avery Bradley.
My number three slot is Tony Allen, my number two
slot is Kawhi Leonard, and my number one slot is

(01:06:17):
Draymond Green Kawhi. The reason why I have Kawhi on
the list is because there's not a single person in
any year of that decade that would claim that Kawhi.
They want Kawhi to be their point of attack defender.
The reason why I don't have, honestly the defensive player
of the years on that list, like the Dwight Howards

(01:06:37):
and the Rudy Goberts and those guys of the world,
is because I think that they commanded great schemed defenses.
But when you take them out of those schemes, when
Dwight Howard went to Houston, when dwy Horr went to
LA it was not the same. With Rudy Gobert. He
was fortunate to be on Utah and then now he's

(01:06:57):
in Minnesota. But even so he's playing off the court
in every playoff series. And so you can't be considered
a great defender unless you could play the entire game.
In my opinion, those five that I named are the
only five that were really able to do so.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
So you got avery Bradley are better defendant than Drew.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
I think that the reason why I have Avery Bradley
over Drew Holliday, And this is controversial. Drew, I think
is probably one of the most elite guard defenders and
wing defenders of our era. Right, but I've not seen
a player do what Avery Bradley did since he's done it,
picking up ninety four feet, turning guys, being able to

(01:07:37):
chase guys off screens, while also being physical enough to
compete in the post. And in my opinion, I think
that Drew might have this slight edge as a considered defender.
But also Drew was at his peak in defense in
the later half like later years of the twenty tens
now going on to twenty twenties, Like so I consider
him more. If you were doing best decade of twenty twenties,

(01:08:00):
Drew Holliday would be on my list. But twenty ten's
twenty ten to twenty seventeen. I don't think there's a
single guard anybody that would be like Avery Bradley, I
want him off the like off like I want him
on my matchup. They'd be like, no, don't touch me.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
What you got traight at five? I have Chris Paul.
I have Chris Paul at four, I have Lebron James
at three, I have Tony Allen at two, I have
Draymond Green two and at one I got Kawhi Leonard.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Okay, I'm not as mad as us.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
See.

Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
I like when it comes to all three of our list,
we all prioritize versatility, a lot of wings, and not
really the bigs.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
Like you said, the bigs.

Speaker 4 (01:08:41):
No love for the big. Shouts to the bigs, but
no love for the bigs. Man, you gotta show us more, man.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
I just want to ask this stray, those first two
names in your list, like I feel like that's that's
a statistic question, like those two run.

Speaker 4 (01:08:57):
I don't know, but I do like I do like
I have seen Chris Paul low post offend.

Speaker 5 (01:09:02):
I have.

Speaker 4 (01:09:03):
I've seen Chris Paul man up the fade. I seen
it during the era of No Ducking. We had a
we had an episode you know where you know, Chris
Paul and Darren Williams, you know, like these are the
these are the things he didn't duck. No smoke of
them here. Guard Katie, he had guard whoever you whoever
out there here, Guard Broun if you have to. And

(01:09:24):
I love it, and I don't think I don't think
he gets he'll do.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Anything to get a stop.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
Him.

Speaker 3 (01:09:33):
He don't care. He out there to win the game.
He'll do whatever it takes to get a stopping and
and know.

Speaker 4 (01:09:38):
The rule book.

Speaker 1 (01:09:40):
The funny the funny thing is always that's hard for
me because I'm like, is he an elite defender or
did he just have that like that doesn't Maybe that's
the same thing he said about Tony Allen. Does he
had just have that pride at that edge.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
Of he was quick, smart as hell. Anticipations is crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:09:57):
I don't know how many multiple time leading the league
and stills.

Speaker 4 (01:10:01):
That's he's second. He's second. It stills all time.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
By the way, these are the things that you have
you have to size.

Speaker 4 (01:10:14):
Six feet. That's heart, that's effort, that's pride. Gotta throw
him in there, man, and he's been doing it. He's
still trying to defend. That's why he would break his
hand in some of the matchups because he out there
trying to reach.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
Listen, respect, respect, respect man.

Speaker 4 (01:10:33):
Hey, he might age, so I gotta I gotta fight
for old heads, man. You know what I mean, so look,
Gush seven time All NBA defense, six times in the decade.
If that don't, if that don't get you the love,
I don't know what to do. He might have to
move up past Brin for me to be honest, I'm
gonna have to put a little bit more respect. He

(01:10:54):
might have to go on my number four and bron
go to five.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
Might be talking in the top five.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
Hey, man said, you might be talking to me out
of Avery Browley right now.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
Not gonna Yeah. He one of the ones.

Speaker 3 (01:11:05):
Like I said, we we ain't talking stats a lot
on here. We ain't going into the Yeah, we ain't
got the legs, but.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
He got some. He got some accolades.

Speaker 4 (01:11:15):
Hey, we'll let the people you know, we got the
Telly system. We got the Telly system. Y'all weigh in,
y'all listening, who had the best Top five? Myself grant
herself weigh in in the comments. Let us know. I
think I got the win because I got my guys
out here changing up they five.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
So you know you chose Jordan Elevens like the hype beast.
You know, I'm just saying you got you pulled on
the listeners, hearts, heartstrings, just now.

Speaker 4 (01:11:42):
If at, if I had, if I have, if I
have braun At too, baby, that'd be that'd be pandemic.
But he's still at the bottom.

Speaker 5 (01:11:50):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
You know, I don't think all right, But you.

Speaker 4 (01:11:55):
Know what, he didn't even get enough for the mentioned
I don't think I even got a chance to mention him.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
But yes, Ad, but he was on teams that weren't
winning at the time. So you don't give credits to
the guys that aren't on the winning teams. Like we
don't talk enough about a guy even today's NBA IRB. Jones,
Like we talk about guys that are like elite defenders
because they're on the best teams, but like if they
were in different situations, like you be arguing, this guy
maybe one of the best defenders in the entire NBA.

(01:12:22):
So I think AD's in that similar position where he
was on the New Orleans teams that just weren't great
at the time, and then Bullogie Cousins comes out one
year and they're like that and he starts getting more
recognition and stuff they deserves.

Speaker 4 (01:12:34):
Well, he would he didn't make my five because I
don't start talking about him TI twenty twenty. Yeah, twenty nineteen,
twenty twenty that you know where it starts clicking. Hey,
I'm a Laker. I'm actually you know, because I felt
a couple of times he got snubbed out of a
lot of situations, you know what I mean over there.
So he definitely when we get to the twenty twenty
defenders in that conversation in Nast when I'll talk about

(01:12:56):
him a little bit more. But you made a great point.
He played on bad teams and it kind of takes
a hit to the criteria right now. You know, you
a guess, me and Seth we could be biased about
our top five. You gave your top five. You can
even mention yourself, but if you had to choose, who
do you think had the best top five goal list?

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
See? Just to be honorable, you know, I'm gonna take
myself out of the mix and I'm gonna give it
to Seth just because, like I think that as much
as Chris Paul is phenomenal on the defensive in the
basketball court, I think you both had bron in it,
but I think that Seth's list was a lot more

(01:13:38):
you know, congrul up with mine. So I'm gonna give
him the him the edge compared.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
To No Charlotte, No Horn is biased in there, even
though that's my guy.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
No Horn is biased, just honest and true, honorable. I
don't believe that.

Speaker 4 (01:13:50):
I don't believe. I don't believe that.

Speaker 6 (01:13:52):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
The reason why I think seth list is better, even
though you both had Lebron at four, I think that
Drew Holliday is a better defendian see see may have
more first team accolades, but like from playing experience, like
I've seen like Drew pick up a guy full court,
take him out of the game, and a lot of
guys just say get him off me versus Chris Paul.

(01:14:13):
I think that he's a feisty, phenomenal, you know, toughness,
gritty defender, But I don't think that he's a lockdown
player that Drew is.

Speaker 4 (01:14:21):
When we come back, we're gonna do our Born in
the Wrong Era segment you don't want to.

Speaker 6 (01:14:24):
Miss welcome Back.

Speaker 4 (01:14:42):
I'm like, this is the one. This is probably one
of my favorite segments of the pot Man Born in
the Wrong Era because you never know which person is
going to say the certain player that's born in the
wrong Era. So I'm really curious to hear what player
Grant picked, and I'm really curious to hear what Seth fix.

Speaker 3 (01:15:02):
So I think I got it. I gotta go on.
And I brought up this name a couple times throughout
the pie. But my Born in the Wrong Era is
Pat Bev Patrick Beverly. He feel like he made for
the nineties where you could be more physical, beat guys
up on offense, hand check, you put your hands on
guys ninety four feet, miss the ninety four feet. And

(01:15:23):
he's like one of those, like he liked the prototypical
nineties early two thousands point guard who defended knock down
open shots, get you in your offense, not flashy. That
that's my Born the Wrong Era guy's.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
That's a great one. Actually he took one of mind.
I think that on that note, I'll go with my secondary.
I think my Born in the Wrong Era was Serge
of Baka because I view him as if you put
him in the eighties or the nineties, the physicality or
two thousands, the physicality that he displayed at the four

(01:16:00):
he reminds me of like a forest Grant, it reminds
me of these guys that just like Rick Bahrn like.
But he also had the vertical ability to shot block
and another thing that he did before he added the
three point shot towards the later years when he got
to Toronto all those other places. Like Okay, see he
was a mid range sniper fact, so like put him
in like a ten years, twenty years, thirty years prior.

(01:16:21):
I think he fits in all three of those decades,
like he'd be one of those physical, hard nos four
men that you know you talk about when we talk
about z Bos and those guys of those years.

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
I like that a lot because we were talking about
on another plot how the four men kind of getting eliminated,
like everybody's a wing or then you have sinners. But
Serge is really like one of the last four man's
with the big body physical Like you said, it's a
good name.

Speaker 4 (01:16:48):
For me al Farukamino for real, for real, for Ruth.
I feel like Faru could actually thrive in this era.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:16:59):
I think that he would have been super effective and
actually been a two way guy for a lot of
teams and being affected because he was pretty decent for
the for the Portland Trail Blazers.

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
Yeah, he was my teammate out there in Portland when
we made that run to the Western Conference finals, and
he really one of the most unselfish teammates I've ever had,
because he was literally a three and D guard, the
best wing offensive player on the other team every single
night and never complain, Like sometimes he'll get two shots.
He watching Dame and CJ and the other guards come

(01:17:31):
off the bench and shoot the ball one hundred times,
and some nights he wouldn't touch the rock, and the
other nights he'd get ten, twelve shots up. So yeah,
that's that's a good that's one of my favorite teammates
to play with.

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
That's a good name too.

Speaker 4 (01:17:44):
Well. Grant, we're getting ready to wrap this up soon,
So do you have anything that you want to plug
for the listeners to check out?

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
Oh yeah, I would just say check out. Not in
my foundation, Grant Willnis Family Foundation. We're going to have
our next celebrity golf event this summer August twenty fifth.
And on top of that, you know, just excited for
potential going forward. I have a collect page that I run.
Seth's been on it. You know, talk to him, you know,
big time, big time card guy, both sports, Pokemon, whatever
you've been to look at so Grant one two collects

(01:18:12):
and if you guys enjoyed now and collecting, hear about
the same names that we're talking about across different eras.
I'm starting learning more about vintage. He got a pining
phoenix right there, and it's actually funny that you have
a phoenix. I have a redemption somewhere around my body.
Oh right here, redemption for the MVP front runner. Shay
gilgets Alexander calligraphy gold.

Speaker 3 (01:18:31):
So just saying, if you want to get in the style,
he getting me hooked on a car collecting too, now,
so those are going to get nostalgic.

Speaker 2 (01:18:37):
And you love the game.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
Tap in, tap in because this is where it first
starts and you listen to this podcast, I know you're
gonna love it. So that's all I got and I
appreciate you guys having me on.

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
So appreciate you brother.

Speaker 4 (01:18:48):
Thank you listeners for tuning in. Shout off to I Heeart,
Shout out to unanimous leave ratings comments. We love all that.
We want to stay engaged with you guys. Continue to
follow us on social media. I'm at Trevon Edwards t
R A V O N N E D W A
R D s.

Speaker 3 (01:19:05):
Find Me s dot Curry. Y'all know where to find
me on all socials S d O T.

Speaker 2 (01:19:09):
Curry.

Speaker 3 (01:19:10):
Thank you again to my boy Grant for coming on
today chopping it up with us.

Speaker 4 (01:19:14):
Follow Grant at Grant Will two g R A N
T W I L L the number two and that's
been the greatest of their era. Go This has been

(01:19:37):
a Udynamous Media original. Go was produced by iHeart Podcasts
and Udynamous Media. It was hosted by me Travon Edwards
and Zeph Curry. Executive produced by Stephen Curry and Eric Katy.
Co executive producer Klena Maria Cutton. The executive producers at
iHeart podcast are Sean Titane and Jason English. This series

(01:19:58):
was produced by Derek Jennings and Peter Cutcher, co producer
Kurt Red. Original music by Jesse Woodard. Special thanks to
Stephen Curry and Will Pearson. Goat is a production of
Unanimous Media and iHeart Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.

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