November 24, 2025 • 56 mins
Seth and Tray are joined by Basketball Hall-of-Famer, 5-time NBA All-Star and Olympic Gold Medalist, Tim Hardaway Sr.! Tim talks about the Greatest NBA Trios of the 1990's, how his Run TMC Warriors team was broken up too soon, and what he really thinks about JJ Redick and the Lakers. Tim gives his unfiltered takes on the Michael Jordan Bulls, Draymond Green and the true originator of the Euro-step in the NBA. Plus the guys pick their Top-5 Trios of the 90's.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I really do believe that we would have had a
great run and we would have made it to the
finals with that team. I really truly with US three
and putting the team around us. I really truly thought.
So we had this core Chris Mallin, Tim Hardaway, Mitch
Richmond that should not have been broken up, you know,
(00:26):
and that core could have done something for the Golden
State Warriors in the eighties and late eighties nineties, and
we didn't have a chance to do that.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Welcome back to another episode of goat the Greatest of
Their Era?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
What's going on? Dot? Greatest of the Era?
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Back?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
What's going on? Trade? Man?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
We got a man exciting episode. Man, we've been actually
speaking this into existence. You know, we all mentioned this
Hall of Famer you know, multiple time in previous episodes,
and we finally got them on. So we're don't give
him a proper intro before we even announce who he is.
You know, this player is a Hall of Fame Class
twenty twenty two, five time All Star, five time All NBA.
(01:14):
Because that's one of the most dangerous crossovers in the league.
The U TUB two Step three Top ten MVP finishes
was a member of the group we'll be discussing today
run timc alongside fellow Hall of famers Chris Mullen and
Miss Richmond. And then it's also the author of Killer Crossover,
My life from the Chicago Streets to the Basketball Royalty.
(01:35):
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome Tim Hardaway, Senor what's going on?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
What's happening man? Thank y'all for having me, Seth and
Trayvon appreciate y'all.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, no problem, no problem, man. So you know, this
is a show where we not only give flowers to
you know, our guests, but also allow you know, our
guests to kind of protect their legacy talk about you know,
their playing experience. This is specifically certain eras, so you
(02:06):
get a chance to actually you know, pat some of
your you know, competitors on the back on how good
they actually were, you know, because most shows don't really
do that. It's kind of a comparing contrast. But this
is where we actually discussed those eras and you get
that actual real field test versus the eye tests, you
know what I mean that you can't really explain from
the stands.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, we would.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
You come up with many discussions on this pot as
far as best point guard to the era, best crossover,
best individual move, a lot of stuff. So today we're
talking about obviously the best trios of the nineteen nineties
and when you guys came together and go to state
that run TFC, Like how exciting was it when y'all
first joined forces? And do you think y'all could have
(02:49):
a lasting legacy like y'all like you ended up like creating.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Well, you know, it was great, man, We had a
great time. We understood basketball. We practice with one another
every day talking about you know, if a team plays
us this way, if a guy plays us that way,
or going into a game and shoot around, you know,
so and so Wan he wants to guard me this way.
(03:13):
So I'm gonna go back door on him a couple
of times. Then I'm gonna use this to do something
like that, you know, just to get open, just to
just to just to get some easy buckets, you know.
And man, you know, when you got three guys that
have great IQ's of the game, it's just easy. It's
(03:37):
easy for everybody else too. You know, you ride higginst
Mario Alli, Jim Peterson, Tom Tober out in Lister. You know,
I go on and on and On and you know,
we just had great basketball minds that love to play
the game basketball. You know, after practice new he had
to kick us out at times, he really literally had
(03:59):
to kick us out of the time. Sharuna's Marcelonas a
lot of people don't know man Sharuna's Marcelonas. Nobody could
guard that man when he was healthy. Nobody in NBA
could guard him. Nobody, And he had strong hands, he had.
He was the first one, the very first one that
had the euro step. They wasn't even calling it the
euro step. They was called it traveling then, but they
(04:20):
didn't call it travel on him. We thought he was traveling,
but the refs like, no, he kept that foot down
and he dis descended or uh and made a play.
So he the one that he the first one that
had all those moves and he don't get the credit
for that. And and and that's you know, that's a
shame that you know, when when you come out with
(04:41):
something that they don't credit you for, they credit you know,
Manos Genoboli or or uh, Luca Donchis or this guy.
That guy he was actually the first person that had
done it in the NBA or in in in in
basketball period. So but no, but Chris, Mitch and Tim
(05:01):
Ron Tamsey did not stay together long enough, you know,
and that was unfortunate.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Yeah, I mean that was my leads me to my
next question, Like y'all. You hear about the lower y'all,
y'all trio throughout the league, especially in the West Coast
and the Bay Area, and y'all have like a lasting legacy,
like like y'all played together for ten years, it's only
like two and a half years. Like why why do
you think you're like y'all talked about so much? Even
(05:33):
like y'all played for two and a half years, I
didn't win a championship like y'all. Y'all names Ring Louder
and a lot of a lot of trios that did
win championships that would have together for a long time.
Why did what makes y'all so cool?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Like to talk about we had a lot of fun,
you know when we went out there, we played with charisma,
We played with confidence. We people feared us when we's
out there playing. You know, they didn't know what to
do against us. Gary Payton said, once they traded Mitch,
(06:07):
we had y'all, but with three of y'all. We didn't
know what to do with all three of y'all. And
I understood that. I understood what he was saying, and
you know, I thought that Nelly should have just built
around us, you know, and and we would have all
figured it out. But you know, not to give even
(06:27):
give us a chance two and a half years because
we went there. That first year, we played together and
you know, we just had to you know, we had
to get used to playing with one another. Then we
that second year, we was boom bam. We was off
and running from the first get go, boom bam out
the gate at Denver with Denver Nuggets. We often running
(06:50):
the whole season. Then we beat the San Antonio Spurs.
Then we lose to the LA Lakers. But you know,
we had something there, We had something there, and we
felt special and our team felt special. And he gets
traded that next year. That deflated us. That really really
(07:11):
really deflated our team. And he tried to, you know,
get us going. We was good, we made the playoffs,
we still top five, top six, but it was just
it was just something missing man, and that was Mitch.
And we could have stayed together for at least five
(07:32):
six years you never know what might have happened. You
never know.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, as Seth mentioned, like again, everybody always talks about
run TMC. My question this is not related. You started
off with number five and then you switched to ten.
How did that come about?
Speaker 1 (07:48):
The New Bowl had number ten. I went to the
New Gold they and I think I got stuck it
into it. Somebody tell me, yo, just add to them
how much you wanted? And I think they sucked me
into that court question. They suckered me into to ask
him Minute. I wasn't gonna ask minew nothing. I wasn't
gonna ask me nothing. I was just gonna I was
just gonna figure it out that I was gonna take
(08:09):
number five. But yeah, I said, I'm new man. You
know you got number ten, you know, and and and
you know, Minute was right. Minute said, and he always
told the truth. God rested, so he always said. He
said that, and I didn't think about it. He said,
you know, I wore that number when I first came
to the United States too. You know, when I first
(08:30):
came and played here in the United States, I wore
that number. They gave me number ten. And I didn't
really realize that until he said that, and then when
I asked him, you know, how much will it take
to you know, get my number? He said, your whole contract?
I said what, I said, five hundred thousand. He said,
(08:52):
let me see how much you wanted. I said, I
told now, mind, I went to the train, I said,
I take number five. So yeah, that's that's why I'm
not and please but me, you know, let's see how
if you really wanted rookie, give me your whole check. Now,
it was great. That number is special to me. It's
hanging up in the raptors. But my first year, now
(09:12):
it wasn't that special.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
That's a little nugget.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
I didn't even know that.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, man, So when I was collecting trading cards, it's
actually considered an air card because it's two different versions.
It's the five which has the rookie on it with
the Rookie label on it, and then it's another one
where he wears ten. And I was like, now they
messed up. It's no way, Tim hardaway War five. It
bothered me for a long time, probably was like seven
(09:39):
eight years old, like I'm like, no way, there it is.
He had it right or deck, So you know, and
I hope Mitchell and ness can make that one right there,
because that's definitely one of those like deep cuts, like
you gotta know to know that he wore five before
t and kicked off man. But again, like you said,
(09:59):
if y'a wouldn't had three maybe four more you know
years together, actually would have made a deep run and
would have been you know, one of the teams that
had a banner up there in Golden State before you know,
the twenty sixteen years.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I really do believe that, I really, I really do
believe that we would have had a great run and
we would have made it to the finals with that team.
I really truly with us three and putting the team
around us, I really truly thought so. And I mean,
like I said when he traded, you know, I'm not
(10:33):
getting on Billy Owens, you know what I'm saying. Billy
Owns was a great player. But we had we had
this corps Chris Mullin, Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond that should
not have been broken up, you know, and that core
(10:54):
could have done something for the Golden State Warriors in
the eighties and the late eighties ninety and we didn't
have a chance to do that. But there's nothing against
you know, Billy Owns. But our core was us three
and we had a chance and we never we never
got that chance to produce.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
I mean that sounds similar to okay, okay, see you
know what I'm saying, James had to go to Houston.
When you really think.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
About it, Yeah, that core, like all three of them,
averaged over twenty two a game. And like we we'll
talk about these other trios as we go forward in
the pod, and it's always one that like Lesson, like
one of the lesser guys. It's a main duo and
then it's like a extra guy. Maybe he's a defender
more or he's scoring less points or whatever. They run
tnc all was getting to it. All did it in
(11:40):
different ways, but all like main guys in our own sense.
So that's I mean, that's what makes it sense.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
We shared the ball, you know, we were very selfish,
you know, even though we got our points, even got
even though we got our shots up, but we was
efficient and getting our shots up. We was efficient and
playing the game, you know, and that's what made us good.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
All right, Seth, you mentioned some of the other trios.
Let's jump right into it. Uh, Jordan pipp and Rodman.
How you know you faced them with Miami. How how
good was that trio?
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Very good? They was, I mean they was Hall of
Famous like we are. You know, they was matched, you know,
they they you know, they they had. They was in
the system. They was in the system where they they
with with Chicago Bulls and and what Phil Jackson brought
to that table for them. They was in a great
(12:36):
system that was great for their not only not only
the team, but their bodies. They didn't over exert themselves.
They didn't over you know, like we're gonna run. They
ran when they got stops, or they ran when they
had opportunity to run. Other than that, they they didn't
run that much. But they but they just knew how
(12:57):
to get into the getting into and the over open
court and make plays when they needed to make plays.
But it was all about their defense. They stopped you
on defense. They turned you. They turned you over, you know,
and lot they were. They was long, you know, and
if you and if you was one dimensional team like
going down low, they double team, you know, and they
(13:20):
was long. You had to throw it over Scottie pippin arms,
you had to throw it over Luke Lonely Arms, Tony
Cool Coach Arms. All of them was Randy Brown, you.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Know, like yeah, yeah, yeah, Ron.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Randy Brown, Brandy Brown, six five sixty six long arms.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
So it was difficult man. And I mean so you
had to run high pick and rolls, you know, you had,
and a lot and a lot of people don't know
they played Zone two. They just knew how to play
this song. They just knew how to get out that,
you know, the areas that they needed to when they
supposed had got out. So they was playing his own
(14:00):
but you know, they knew. They was very sneaky with Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
You had Jordan's.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
He had Jordan Pippen. Robin.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
You also had earlier in the decade.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
The Jordan's Pippen was Horace Grant trio too, So it's
kind of like Grant and Robin kind of switched places
as part part of that trio, and Horace Grant did
in a different way. He was a little bit more
of a score than Robin, and he well.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I mean he was a score. He was more than
he was more of a score than Robin. But he
did just exactly what Dennis Robin did, except get under
your skin.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
He still did the dirty work, the dirty work, for sure.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Right he still he's still dirty work now. You know.
You know they played against he he had to play
against some some some big forwards. You know, he had
the guard. He had the guard. Who was that Charles Barkley,
you know, so, I mean he was he was guarding
some big fellas. I mean, he was guarding some scores too.
(14:57):
So so Horace Grant was, you know, a big part
of they three feet in the first one, the first one. Yeah,
I'm tall and I'm gonna tell you. I'm gonna tell
you this. You know who don't get enough credit. Jerry Crops.
They booed him, they bool him, they did they you know,
they did him dirty. You know, the boys players did
him dirty. Uh And they know who I'm talking about.
(15:19):
He put that team together for nothing. He was a
baseball he was a baseball scout, and he asks and
he asked the owner, Jerry Rhyinstorf, hey I can put
a team together, and he put it.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Damn he put up.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
He put a Hall of Fame team together that went
out there and got.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
A legit dynasty eight yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
And it was all him. It was all him, all right,
and then then he has to tell them this didn't
come from him, It came from Rhyin starf Ranstorff told
him to go tell Phil and Michael and Scott it
was the last dance. So everybody's on on on Jerry Krause.
(16:04):
That wasn't Jerry Crouse's decision. That was Ryan storff decision.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
So, like I.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Said, people getting on on Jerry Crouse, that's a bunch
of belongings.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
We had Craig Hodges on here, uh a few pods ago,
and he was talking about all the all the stuff
Jordan and people needed around them to make them a
championship team. Like they get Jordan against a lot of
the credit, and it it's the controversial topic because they
he I mean, he obviously Jordan, but he gets all
the credit for those championships as far as all the
people around them that made that whole thing, orchestra made
(16:36):
it all work.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
So and that's that same thing you're.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Saying, it doesn't matter Larry Bird, he had, he had
McHale and Robert Parrish. You know, Isaiah couldn't win it
until he got Mark Wyatt there, you know, and what
they had, you know, it's a lot of people that
you need a team and everybody think that you it's
(16:58):
one day gonna get act late s g A. He
got all the accolades, all right, but who else? I mean,
the team really wants it, don't work with everybody.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Defense work is what wins game.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah for sure, it's not one guy playing defense is
the whole team. So yeah, you got to put a
team around him, and a team got to understand who
that guy is. And that's why you gotta have a coach.
A coach got to make that team understand what's who's
gonna do what, how we're gonna do it, and this
is how we're going to win, just like the Golden
State Warriors, you know, the same way with State Warriors
(17:36):
right now.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Yeah, I mean obviously we played with you with with
Junior a bunch in Dallas. And that's the thing that
Luca was was trying to he's learning throughout his career.
Is obviously he's putting up those numbers and and doing it.
He can orchestrate the offense kind of by himself. Get
got shot. But as you get older and learned how
to win games, you got to bring your team like
you gotta sacrifice stuff. And you gotta you, You gotta
(17:59):
empower other guys. You got need you need it to.
You needed three that's gonna carry you some nights. It
can't be one guy. And that's I mean, that's what
we're talking about with as far as these trios.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, and you gotta have a coach that's gonna talk
to you, and that's gonna make you understand. You know,
as a team, this is how we're gonna play. We
can't play this way or we're gonna lose. We gotta
play this way. This how it's gotta be ran. This
is what you gotta do individually and as a team collectively.
And that's how we're gonna win. And and and I
think that's what in Dallas the coaches couldn't do to Luca.
(18:34):
Luca was running everything. Luca was telling them what to do.
JJ Reddick is like, I'm running this ship, all right,
and I'm gonna be damned if I do, and I'm
gonna be damned if I don't. And that's why I
tell coach, run your own ship, because you're gonna be
damned if you do, damn if you don't. And you're
gonna get you're gonna get.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Regardless, and I mean.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Regardless speaking of great coaches with the trio Jerry Sloan,
but the Tree all stocked them alone in Hornersheck, how
good were they?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Man, who I'm gonna tell you something. You could be
blowing them out by thirty in the first half. They
coming back, They coming back. They making them run, especially
at their house. They're making a run. They gonna cut
it within two, They're gonna cut it within four. But
they making a run. They stayed with the offense. They
(19:27):
did what they did that then what's that? I forget?
Did U s l a cut and uh screen across?
But see, that's the way the game was played back then.
And you had to get around those picks. You had
to get over those picks. That was wasn't no switching
or anything like that. That's what made the game great,
you know, That's what made the game really good because
(19:47):
you had to think. You had to think, and you
had to be in shape, and you had to understand
how to uh get around picks, how to get over picks,
how to stand in front of your man. The defense
was different and everything like that. But man, those three
guys together together and I tell you that if Jeff
Malone was a little bit younger, just a little bit younger, man,
(20:11):
that's why they traded for horna check because Jeff Malone
got hurt and he got older and they needed another
guy to come in and make shots like Jeff Malone.
Because Jeff Malone, whoa Lord my god, he made he
made shot. He was just like your dad. He made
shots after shots. At the shots. You can leave him
(20:31):
open those. But and the way they and your dad
with with with with with.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
With, oh man, he would he actually it was crazy
as he got drafted there, but then they can't keep him.
He got so he got drafted. They traded to Cleveland
for you and then the expansive draft came and he
was in Charlotte. Charlotte took him mut Yeah he was.
They thought that too because they drafted him. But obviously
he ain't really get on the floor and then get
a chance out there right right.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
But I'm gonna telling you this man, if he if
he could have ever stayed there, oh my god, how
he can shoot the ball. They would have loved.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
And that's what I mean. That's what I love about
the nineties too. Like everybody's that's a system that fit
that trill perfectly. So every team had kind of had
to play a different style of basketball. Sometimes I'm looking
out there right now, and I mean, it's obviously it's
great talent out there on the floor, but a lot
of teams are playing the same same way, the same system.
You see the same stuff night in night out, and.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
They can't you know, you know, you know what's unique
about Denver. If you look at Denver, they got some
stuff that's same, but they got a lot of stuff
that's different. How they crossed the screen and bring Murray
back up and then have this guy cross for this
guy and then he throws a live here in Murray Miket.
I mean, they got a lot of different variations of stuff.
(21:48):
And then you're right, but a lot of teams run
the same the same stuff. You know, when we when
we's playing, you probably had four things that were the
same as another team. Definitely lock me all right, Definitely
turned five they just call it different or turn four
they call it different. One up, one down, that's forward
(22:10):
the center, and thumb up that's a high pick and roll.
That was it, you know, and then then other and
then you had other stuff cross picks and this and
that that you that a lot of teams could not
have because they didn't have the Personnelity had that, and
then if you got that personnel, you could do that stuff.
But yeah, teams run that stuff. You know, they run
the same stuff all the time. And Draymond came on.
(22:34):
You know, I heard this thing about him in Oakley.
I tell you that love Draymond Green. Love Draymond Green.
I'd be the first one to tell Pat Rowley he
made a mistake on Draymond Green. We need to go younger.
He didn't want to go younger. He didn't like Draymond
Green for some reason. And he kept he kept with
Shane Battier. Yeah, you should have. He needed younger folks
(22:57):
and that knew how to play, that had basketball IQ.
All right, So now I think saying that, I know
Draymond Green could have played in that era easily with
his mindset, his basketball IQ where you come from, he
could have played in that ara. Now you gotta know
(23:20):
he has to know right now, the ratings are down
for the NBA. The ratings are down. Our ratings never
went down. Our ratings stayed up and sometimes they got higher.
People love the way we played basketball. People love how
we moved the ball. People loved how we played defense.
Even though it was in the nineties, the hundreds or
(23:40):
eighty some games, people love that style of basketball. A
lot of these guys, a lot of people fans don't
like this style of basketball because first of all, there's
too many threes, okay, and it's too many turnovers, and
it's too much one on one high pick and row,
high pick and row, high, pick and row. It's not
no movement. It's not fun. It's not fun to watch,
(24:04):
you know, so so so and Drey my I disagree
with him on that part. And another thing, guys today,
I saw when I say sault, we had people in
the stands talking to us all the time, all the time.
If he's not, if he's not, if a guy is
not really belittling you or or or uh saying something
(24:31):
like the N word, or you will be or you know,
being real bad to you, calling you Angela Reese, that's
that's that's that's nothing.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
I mean, that's a thing. Man, Like, I don't know
what I agree with you. I don't know when that
started happening. Like in the game.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah, I figured like Russ started doing a lot.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
When people will say stuff like that, normal fans get
on you for just constantly, constant, constant nagging, and all
of a sudden it's too far.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
They just off the game.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
They think supposed to be what a fan supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
That's what that's what he's supposed to do. And guess
what he has done it even though y'all won the game,
but he was in your ear. He was in your head,
that's what you was thinking. You could say no, but
your actions showed it. Your action, I wouldn't We never
wouldn't have went over there. Or like a guy said,
yo yo Jordan, you can't dunk over a seven foot guy.
(25:23):
He dunked over Mark Eaton seven four. He said, is
he tall enough? You know that's what you respawn out there?
Respond on the court, don't respond to a guy. So
that's why I said, a lot of these guys are
soft because they let everything get on them. They let
these guys or these fans get on them, and they
take it literally literally.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
So you mentioned uh not being able to switch in
your era, how personal did you take your matchups night
in and night out, especially another point guard?
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Yeah, it was it wasn't like I wasn't guarding up
Rod Strickman or Kevin Johnson or Gary Payton or you know,
John Stockton. You know, uh, you're gonna get embarrassed. You're
going to get embarrassed. You know, to real branded you're
going to get embarrassed. You know, everybody gets embarrassed. I
(26:19):
gett I get embarrassed, I embarrass somebody else. That's just
what's the nature of the bat Because of the game.
I tell kids today, everybody gonna get dumped on. Everybody's
gonna get dumped. Everybody's gonna shoot the air ball. Everybody's
gonna shoot a brick. Everybody's gonna turn the ball over.
You know, everybody's gonna get shaked, and you're gonna shake somebody.
(26:41):
So stop out here being embarrassed. Just make yourself better.
And if you make yourself better, then you can leave
all that other stuff alone. But they can't. They can't
make theyself better because they're thinking about, oh, I can't
get shipped. I can't get embarrassed. When you're getting embarrassed anyway,
because your friend is holding up a camera phone and
watch you get shipt.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
They're gonna talk about it. Regardless. So you mentioned how
good was the Phoenix Sun's trio with Barkley and Dan
Marley and kJ.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Oh, I'm gonna tell you something, man, So my introduction
to the NBA, my first game with kJ oh, my god,
oh wait, he killed me. And that's all I can think.
I couldn't even go to sleep that night. That's I
couldn't go to sleep that night. I really couldn't. And
but they you know, you had Eddie Johnson, kJ and
(27:36):
Tom Chambers all right, Oh my god, I mean you
know they they man, I mean coming down. And then
you had the Greyhound coming off the bench. God rest
his soul. I mean they had they had They had
a really really nice team and Cotton Fish Simmons knew
how to coach and they had the right person. Now,
(27:57):
they just couldn't get over that hump for some reason.
You had a trio of them where it was hard
to guard, especially pick and roll. You can't switch, you
can't switch. And you know, and we're not even talking
about shooting threes. We're not talking about shooting threes. We're
just talking about shooting mid range jump shots that was
(28:20):
consistently going in at fifty percent. If it was wide open.
People was making mid range jump shots.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
And they played a faster pace. Am I not right?
They got up and down a little bit more than usual.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
That's kind of interesting that you pointed out the fifty
percent mid range because imagine steps Era taking the recovery
will be kind of rough if it swung the ball
and just taking more mid range because you know, obviously
guys are long athletic, but like guys taking that shot
a little bit more, I don't know what the points
would probably be looking like with the options and how
(28:55):
the defense is.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
So I think a lot of people upset or that's
this is what I'm hearing about Indiana and OKC being
in the finals. I said, people, y'all missing a point.
Watch these two teams play basketball. They played basketball the
(29:17):
way the game is supposed to be played. They're not
taking three, They're not taking sixty threes. That's what y'all
upset about. They taking mid range jump shots they taken.
They taking jump shots that they can get. You know,
they they are coach very well. If they got if
they taking threes, it's wide open threes, or they it's
a desperation three that they need to shoot other than
(29:40):
that they playing beautiful basketball. I love for them to
go seven games. Man, it was absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
What I loved about it everybody on both teams had
to be guarded on the floor. It's like none of
that I'm guard to when I can leave a guy
wide open because he's.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Not the ball.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, you got you got nice slips, having a crazy game.
You got topping stepping up, you got Jalen Williams, you
know what I mean, Like every every night you couldn't sleep, so.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Could you couldn't sleep every night because it was a
different person on each team making plays on offense and defense.
So yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Mentioned that you taw Jazz team being a team that
wouldn't go away. That reminds me of the Pacers team
during that finals, where you they those leads weren't safe,
you know what I mean, where people were like, oh,
I'm about to go, you know, this game over and
then we're like the last two minutes of the game
of a deciding overtime or you know, a crucial possession
the last ten to twenty seconds of the game. So yeah,
(30:42):
that was that was a really exciting, uh you know series,
all right, this one is very controversial Hakeen, Vernon Maxwell,
Kenny Smith, those back to back Rockets teams, how good
were they? A lot of people say, if the Bulls
were still intact, they probably would have beat them. You know,
you were in that that era, you face both teams.
How good were the Rockets? And do they are they
(31:05):
disrespected as a back to back team during that era?
Speaker 1 (31:09):
I don't think they disrespected. I think that when people
says that, and Kenny Smith and Vernon Maxwell and I
Kim and if they supposed to say no, because they're
the champions. For me personally, I think if Michael would
have played those two years, they would have won eight
in a Rocket.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
All right, all right, we said, we said, but I
think I'm I'm an og Bulls fan, and I look
at it from like a perspective of like peoples like
are you tripping? You being biased? And I was just like, dude,
like how you mentioned run? Timc y'all chemistry was so
locked in and plug and play to a point where
(31:50):
I watched them get Bill Cartwright, Will Purdue, Luke Longley,
y'all mentioned Horace Grant earlier, Dennis Rodman. They even added
veteran players like Robert Parrish. That had championship experience every
different time Dickie Simpkins, the list goes like, you know,
Tony Kokach.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you that. So I think
the first three pat against Portland. I think it was
game six, Michael was having a sub part game. I forget.
I think it was game six or game five something. Yeah,
it was game six, and it was at home. He
was having a sub part game, all right, And the
(32:31):
end of the third quarter, Field was struggling about damn,
should I take these guys out? And should not take
them out? And as the assistant coach said, put the
put the other guys in. Jerry seastein that he used
to play with the Utah Jazz, my buddy Judge Buschler,
(32:53):
he used to play with me. I forget who the
guards were. And Michael, Michael, and Scotty was out. I
think Scotty came in for a little bit. Michael was
definitely out and he I mean he was struggling and
they sat him down for about four or five minutes
and the boy. Yeah, it was against Portland and the
(33:13):
Bulls actually went up six seven points when they were
struggling to go up sixt seven points. And those guys
came in and played very well. Will Purdue and those
guys they played very well. And when Michael and them
came back in, you can see the chemistry, like I said,
the chemistry, the chemistry of that team. It was so strong.
(33:37):
When you played against them, you could feel. I mean,
he rubbed his knuckles, he did something like this, or
he went he rubbed his knuckles and did or he
did five five man, whatever he did. They ran that
ship to precision to precision, and somebody was always open.
Somebody always got a shot open, somebody always made a play.
(34:01):
So yeah, man, I mean that that's the way it was.
And you know, and with and with Houston, it was Keen,
ha Keen, Hai Keen and Hai Keen. That's who they're
going with, you know. And they knew that they was
going with Hai Keen and Hai Keen. Would have had
to had to find them people because they was coming
to double lay in the game. They let you have
(34:24):
all your points. First through third quarter they let you do.
But in the fourth quarter they come.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
To duble and like you mentioned, they long, so them
passes is tipped, you know them long de blong skip
passes ain't making it.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Or yet, or they're not getting there on time. So
you can catch and shoot the ball. You gotta catch
and think about what you know, what the defense is that.
I got a question for you, talk about this trio
in Houston. You got on Keen Drexeler Robert r You
think Robert Ois should be in the Hall of Fame.
I don't think they're gonna put him in the Hall
of Fame because of his numbers. Uh, he had seven
(34:59):
rings and all that, but I don't think that I
don't think they even consider him as being a Hall
of Fame basketball player. What he has done for each
and every team that he has went to. Now that
that's you know, something that that nobody could never take
away from him. He got seven rings. No, nobody can
(35:21):
never take away from him. But you know, I he
I don't think that they think that he did enough
to to to to be a Hall of Famer. That
that's what That's what I think. I think. You know,
everybody should you know who played this game that contribute
(35:41):
in this league up to a high level, like like
a Robbert Rory should be considered as a Hall of
Famer because without him, them teams wasn't won, Lakers wouldn't
have won. Now, Lakers wouldn't have won. I mean he
he made I mean really really, really really clutch plays
(36:03):
on office and defense, you know, and with the Houston
Rockets too. But yeah, I don't think they they.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Not to shake things up. Obviously, there are some great
teams that have been inducted into the Hall of Fame.
Do you think there should be an individual category for teams?
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Teams, yeah, yeah, teams yeah, but categories Well, I mean
then I mean you gotta put you know, mister Hustle,
I mean, mister Hustles, it were there, and of course,
I mean, you know you gotta put, you gotta put. Uh.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
But that's the great debate right now for the sixth
Man of the Year award between Lou Williams and and
Jamal Crawford. They scored a lot of points. They won
this award, but like just because they wanted three times,
do they get a nod? How do you get in it?
I think.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
You got to be one of those ones like you
to be in the Hall of Fame. That you gotta
be one of those ones.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
That's gonna be tough too. That that that's gonna be
tough too. I don't think you know, just because you
six man three times in a row, I mean three
times in your career, I don't that's gonna be a
hard one to put over with them, with the with
the committee. I mean, you know they were some bad boys,
(37:16):
but you know they.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
Like, yeah, the bad great great players.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
I mean six minutes.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
I mean you gotta talk about it when you talk
about the history of the game, but hall of fame,
like you got to be one of the best in
the league. And if you're not, if you're not All
NBA All Star yeah, ag two games?
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (37:37):
How oh, I'm glad you mentioned that eighty two game season.
How important was it because I always compare it to
like missing school, right, you don't want to miss school?
How important was your availability to you? You know what
I mean? Like if you was obviously you hurt, you hurt.
But I look at always games played from yall era
(37:59):
and y'all being high eighties, high seventies, five games played,
you know, just durable. What do you think is the
difference between y'all era and now?
Speaker 1 (38:13):
So when we when we was playing, it was a
thing called if you was on injury reserve. You had
to stay out five games. You couldn't play for five games,
even though you was ready to play, you couldn't play
for five games. And a lot of guys lost their
jobs in five games, not start, not start guys. Guys
(38:37):
lost their jobs in five games. So if you're coming
off the bench and you like you get hurt, you
out for five games. The next guy step up, it
put you down to two guys. So you have you
have to reget your stuff back together and be able
to play, you know, get that, get your position back.
(38:58):
So a lot of guys played hurt back then, which
was which was which was crazy. But a lot of
guys took care of themselves. The ones that took care
of themselves knew how to, you know, stay healthy and
knew how to stay on that court. And you know,
like your dad, so you're dad, you know he knew
(39:21):
how to stay on that court, you know, because he
because he knew he especially coming off that bench you hurt,
You're like, damn, I got five games. And five games
is like it could be an internpretive man, it could
be like today.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
He was saying, that's a common theme. He was saying
the same thing, like even in training camp.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
He had to.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
He showed up the training camp competing for that spot
because there was less roster spots.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
It was and I open out letting this young guy
beat me out any day. He he's not getting my man,
it's not he's not getting the opportunity to go out
there and show he could take my job. And he
felt like that every year for sixteen years that he
played in the league.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
You had to you had to. You had to come
in in shape. You had to come in in shape.
You couldn't come in out of shape, or you was
behind eight ball right then and there. So yeah, but
we took prior to playing eighty two games, our mind,
our bodies, our mental aspect, and our physical aspect was
ready to play eighty two games. So if you played
(40:21):
eighty two games each year, that's just a tribute to
you and how you took care of your body and
how ready you was to play. I think a lot
of these guys today, you know, it's a lot of can't, can't,
or I can't do this, I can't do that, or
I'm not gonna do this, or I'm not gonna do that,
and It's always instilled in their head. Now where or
(40:45):
I'm not I'm not gonna play eighty two games. Fuck that,
I'm not just not gonna do that.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
I gotta shoot it some bells too, because a lot
of it is the medical teams too.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Like I'll be into some of these practices.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
I've seen some some medical status walk into practice and
tell all right, they've done enough today, like cancer like
practice practice over God, God's got it off the court.
Like that's that's kind of the mindset that's kind of
being drilled into us now, is rass rast, rast, rest,
rest instead of pushing yourself to the limit.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Right, I had I had so when I was coaching
assistant coaching. Uh you know, we had some guys where
you had that thing on, Yeah, that little little thing
whatever it is, you had it on. And you go
out there and you somebody want to work out for
forty They they they at their threshold already there where
(41:36):
they where they can't even practice already. But but we
can't stop them from going out to Yo. What we're
gonna say, No, you can't work out, you can't work
on your game. Chris mother used to work out an
hour before practice, an hour, run up and down, get
about you know, three hundred shots in being a dog
out ass sweat. He goes back in there, he takes
(41:59):
a ship hour and everything gets dried off and he
gets ready for.
Speaker 4 (42:04):
Yeah, I'm been going through that now. The low management
like not low Manda, but they track your load. So
you got to put on the little the tracker to
say how hard you're going to practice. They put it
on me when I step on the court, work out
pre practice. You can only go this long. So you
get ready for practice and.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
We go three hours. We shuld to go three hours?
And who if we and then just say this, if
we didn't have practice, if we didn't have practice, say
if we come there, sh you have court, you have
shoot a half court and it goes in practice over man,
we in there playing three on three.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
Whole about an hour's days.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
That's commitment. All right, We're going to Pacific Northwest? How
good were Gary Pagon, Sean Kemp and Della Triumph?
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Outstanding? Outstanding man, hard to guard? They the glove when
he gets going. They had this engine going, they said,
and then it started going. It was funny. Man, I look,
(43:09):
man Seattle, I'm gonna tell you, man, that was one
of the best arenas to go play in, best cities,
go playing. Man, them fans are crazy and they get
them hype and they and it's a it's a great
gym to go in there and shoot in But man,
when they got going, you know, Gary Payton with his defense,
(43:31):
I mean he could change the game with defense. Gary Payton,
I mean he changed the game. You look up, so
he had it didn't it didn't go on to box
score how many pressures he had, or deflections he had,
or or or or you know, uh, you know when
he stole the ball, he had assists he had that Man,
he could walk out with ten points, you know, ten
(43:54):
assists and eleven rebounds or whatever and have about seven
eight steals if they really can't deflections whatever, each and
every game. Man, that dude, he could just take over
the game that way. Sean Kemp, I mean, once he
got going, it was it was out of control. He
blocking shots, dunking on you, dunking on you, dunking on you. Again.
(44:18):
The enthusiasm and with devilis Shrimp calmed him down to
they used to go definitely shrimp six he could take yeah, six'.
Nine he could take you off the. Dribble he could
post you, up had nice. Heads he posted you, up turn,
around jump shot off the right. SHOULDER i mean them
threw was very nice, man very.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Nice all.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Right, lastly The San Antonio, Spurs Tim, Duncan David robinson
And Avery.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Johnson Avery, Avery, Avery, avery the, general the general that controlled.
Everything that's how they won their first. One he controlled.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
Everything it's true because when your two best players are
power forward and, center you got to have a guy
who get him the ball in their spots like they
can't bring the ball up in and and then shape
the offense great off like create plays for. Themselves you
needed a Guy avery in there, to like you, said
run the, show get him their, spots run out, high, low.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
And And i'm gonna tell you. This when they Got Tim,
Duncan David robinson was, Like, yeah this is your. Team
we're gonna go to. You they gonna come to me
When i'm going but we definitely going to you all the.
Time and they went to him all the. Time they
(45:43):
it was turn, four turn five And. David you know
a lot of people to Know david can make a
fifteen foot jump. Shot he was forty forty two from fifteen.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Range, yeah you.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Know so, SO i mean they Had Papa vich had
a nice system where they can make make plays and
people knew where we're gonna, go but we're gonna play,
defense but we're gonna get out and. Run and but,
yeah it was All avery. Though he used to get.
People so so this is what he did. Do he'll
bring the ball, up he'll pass it and he'll tell
(46:16):
everybody to. Wait he go to the short corner so
he could shoot that little short corner jump shot because
it's gonna come to. Him he just gotta make that, short,
short short corner jump. Shot and he's, like all, right
just run and. Play and they're run and. Play give
it To tim or give it To david and he'll
be over down that short. Corner and that's how they
(46:36):
that's how they Beat New York. Knicks The New York
knicks didn't Think Avery johnson can make.
Speaker 4 (46:41):
Those, yeah because you know they're gonna double the Big.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yeah so, YEAH i mean that that that that that.
WAS i like their team And Mario ellie was on that. Team,
uh you know they they chemistry was great and and
the reason why the chemistry was great it's because Of
Hayvey johnson in.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
General all, right we're gonna take a quick.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Break when we come, back we're gonna give our greatest
trio of the. Nineties all, right, sef who do you
(47:28):
have as your top five greatest trio of the?
Speaker 4 (47:31):
Nineties all, Right i'm ima start. Off i'm gonna hit.
Five number. Five i'm going with The sonics, Man Gary,
Payton devil Of, Shrimp Sean. Kemp that was MY NBA
jam trio right. There that's WHY i know a lot of.
These that's WHY i know so much about all these.
Trios by the WAY i, WAS i was seeing it
with my dad was in the. League but THE Nba
jam got me right as far as my knowledge of the.
(47:52):
Nineties number FOUR i Got Utah Utah, jazz the malone
stocked in the. Sec number THREE i got RUN Tmc.
Electric LIKE i, said all three averaging over twenty two is,
special like even in today's game with high a lot more,
offense a lot more. Possessions like three people averaging twenty
(48:14):
two is unseen even in today's.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
League so that's.
Speaker 4 (48:17):
Crazy and then number two and number, ONE i got
both of The bulls. Trios one With robin one With Horse.
GRANT i, think like you said that that that top
that one with With. Robin the seventy two and seventy
and ten. Team that defense is just. CRAZY i think
that's the, best maybe the best defensive team. Ever the
(48:37):
way they, robbing AND i mean Way jordan And pippin
will pick you up full and just hawk you the whole.
Game so that's my top, five all.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Right mine are going to be a little bit off
the list due to, time but number five J, Kidd Jim,
Jackson Jamal. Mashburn at, Four i'm gonna Go Brad, Doherty Larry,
Nance Mark price mm. Hm at, Three i'm gonna go
Run tim C at, Two i'm gonna Go Duncan robertson
(49:11):
And Avery. Johnson and then at one i'm gonna Go,
Jordan's pippin And.
Speaker 4 (49:16):
Robin, okay you kind of that's that's a different.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
File we didn't even get to all.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
THEM i liked.
Speaker 3 (49:21):
IT i like The mark.
Speaker 4 (49:22):
Place that's one of my favorite players, ever especially in the.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Nineties he was a.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
Dog all, Right, tim let's let us hear you're.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Five, well.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
So i'm gonna Go, Magic Sam perkins And James, Worthy, okay,
okay that's Who jordan's.
Speaker 4 (49:46):
Beat, yeah that's one of. Those, yeah you can talk
about them in The a's or the. Ninety that's one
of them. Twiners SO i like.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
That.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, yeah if they would have stayed, healthy oh lord, God.
Lee number, FOUR i would Go Kevin, Johnson uh what's his?
Speaker 3 (50:08):
Name harley And, Barkley, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Barkley And, thunderdam no, question Thunder. Dam, yeah they used
to beat our ass all the. Time. Yeah. Yeah then
number three of, course RON tmc.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
Number.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
Two you know, What, Seth i'm gonna be like you,
Man i'm gonna take the. Bulls i'm gonna take both
the bulls BECAUSE i, MEAN i, MEAN i mean With Scottie,
Pippen Horse grant And Michael jordan's you, know then you
got and then then then you go this way, too
you go you, go you Go Michael jordan coach with,
(50:51):
yeah you, know you Go cook, coach or you can
Go Dennis. Rob so since you Went Dennis rob AND
i will go on that on this okay, MAN i,
MEAN i, mean.
Speaker 3 (51:05):
OH i, LIKE i like.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
Everybody, Five we're gonna take one more break and we're
gonna do our favorite topic born in the wrong. Era
(51:27):
we went over some legendary, trios but there can only
be one that could be born in the wrong, era
which one would succeed in this modern day. Era Tim,
hardaway any trio that we just mentioned through the.
Speaker 4 (51:41):
Nineties, absolutely, Absolutely i'm gonna go with That Phoenix Sun squad.
TWO i, mean obviously it could be any of. Them
there could be any of, them just a single.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
Out, one no question them.
Speaker 4 (51:55):
THREE i like the, high high, speed fast, paced, entertaining
both entertaining in the.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Basketball and Then i'm gonna go With, Shaq kobe And Eddie.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
Jones, okay dumble.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
Down so it's this year Two, Kobe Eddie jones is
on his way out before he's, moved and Then shaq
second year From.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
Orlando, yeah, yeah you know that was good.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Three but they they didn't they didn't to, me they
didn't know how to co. Exist, okay you, know they
didn't know how to cast it because you know, why
they didn't have the right. Coaches, okay they didn't have
the right you, know if they, had if they had
the right, coach them three could have co. Existed.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
Definitely who was That Dale harris coaching them at that?
Speaker 1 (52:41):
TIME i THINK i think it Was Dale. Harris he
he really didn't know. THAT i mean you got to
first of, all you got two egos that's out of this,
world And kobe And, SHAQ i mean they out of this.
World AND i don't think he knew how to handle
those two. Egos. Uh Eddie jones was just guy that
(53:01):
that was, dead that could do whatever you need to, do, defense.
Offense he all purpose guy and. Everything but, YEAH i
like those three if they if they had a better.
Speaker 4 (53:11):
Coach, Yeah and that's a deep and that's ANOTHER i,
mean we can go in a deeper topic another. Time
but when you got this much talent on one, team
whether it's three guys four, guys you need to neither
need one a great, coach you can manage the. Egos
it's more about more than just putting in a great
system for him that will. Work is about managing the
egos and keeping everybody. Happy or you need a great
point guard who's running the, show somebody who can who
(53:34):
can get guys the ball on the right spots managed
and keep everybody happy by getting them the ball and
getting them that. Shot so you need one or another
day to make it.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
Work, Yep that's that's WHY i Like Steve kerr and you,
know and you know who's starting to grow on. Me
didn't think he was he was going to be a good,
coach AND i always, thought you, know he was just
obnoxious with what he was saying about the old team IS.
(54:02):
Jj the old school WAS Jj. Reddy you, know as
a guy that that that could only run, around couldn't,
dribble that going to catch and, shoot couldn't, guard and
other people on his team had to have his, back
you know for him to say a bunch of stuff
like like he was saying about us, now he couldn't
play AND i. Am but as a coach and his assistant,
(54:27):
coaches they had doing a hell of a job because he.
COMMUNICATES i like what he's. Doing he's communicating With luca
and making him understand what he needs to do to
make that team. Great And lebron coming. Back that's just
gonna even put the icing on the.
Speaker 2 (54:42):
Cake that's that's one way to end.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
It.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Man Tim Hardaway, senior thank you so much for joining.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Us hey go get.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Please shout your book out.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
Kill a crossover from the streets To chicago to. Basketball,
roorty go get. It out now must.
Speaker 3 (55:01):
Read i'm gonna go pick it up. Tomorrow it's about.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Me and HOW i was brought up and HOW i
Became Tim hardway and to kill a crossover and. Everything
so go get it right. Now it's An.
Speaker 4 (55:12):
Amazon i'm gonna read that on the road this year for.
Sure appreciate you coming, on, man legend and. LEARN i
learned a lot in this. EPISODE i don't know about, You, Trey.
Speaker 2 (55:21):
Yeah, NO i definitely. Did. Man you, know it's one
thing to look at trading cards and watch some, highlights
but you, Know tim was. There he's seen these. Guys
he validated a lot of. Guys he heard some guys
Like Jeff, Malone, sarunas you know WHAT i, mean being
an actual eurostep. Creator, man so many different nuggets, here
no pun so dot sign us, out sir. Man where
(55:41):
can they Find curry?
Speaker 3 (55:42):
Everywhere y'all know what it?
Speaker 1 (55:43):
Is the original Crossover king on ig And.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
Facebook, Okay And i'm At trey and At travaughn and
we're out Go.
Speaker 4 (55:58):
This has been A Unentity.
Speaker 5 (56:00):
Media, Originally goat was produced By iHeart podcasts And Unanimous.
Media it was hosted By, Bean Travon edwards and Step.
Hurk executive produced By Stephen curry And Eric. Baton co
executive Producer Colens Maria. Cutting the executive producers At iHeart
podcasts Are Sewn tittone And Jason. English this series was
(56:20):
produced By Derek jennings And Peter cut co Producer Kurt.
Reddy original music By Jesse. Woodard special thanks To Stephen
curry And Will. Pearson god is the production Of Unanimous
media and iHeart. Podcasts for more podcasts From, iHeartRadio visit
The iHeartRadio, App Apple, podcasts or wherever you get your
podcasts
I really do believe that we would have had a
great run and we would have made it to the
finals with that team. I really truly with US three
and putting the team around us. I really truly thought.
So we had this core Chris Mallin, Tim Hardaway, Mitch
Richmond that should not have been broken up, you know,
(00:26):
and that core could have done something for the Golden
State Warriors in the eighties and late eighties nineties, and
we didn't have a chance to do that.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Welcome back to another episode of goat the Greatest of
Their Era?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
What's going on? Dot? Greatest of the Era?
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Back?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
What's going on? Trade? Man?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
We got a man exciting episode. Man, we've been actually
speaking this into existence. You know, we all mentioned this
Hall of Famer you know, multiple time in previous episodes,
and we finally got them on. So we're don't give
him a proper intro before we even announce who he is.
You know, this player is a Hall of Fame Class
twenty twenty two, five time All Star, five time All NBA.
(01:14):
Because that's one of the most dangerous crossovers in the league.
The U TUB two Step three Top ten MVP finishes
was a member of the group we'll be discussing today
run timc alongside fellow Hall of famers Chris Mullen and
Miss Richmond. And then it's also the author of Killer Crossover,
My life from the Chicago Streets to the Basketball Royalty.
(01:35):
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome Tim Hardaway, Senor what's going on?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
What's happening man? Thank y'all for having me, Seth and
Trayvon appreciate y'all.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, no problem, no problem, man. So you know, this
is a show where we not only give flowers to
you know, our guests, but also allow you know, our
guests to kind of protect their legacy talk about you know,
their playing experience. This is specifically certain eras, so you
(02:06):
get a chance to actually you know, pat some of
your you know, competitors on the back on how good
they actually were, you know, because most shows don't really
do that. It's kind of a comparing contrast. But this
is where we actually discussed those eras and you get
that actual real field test versus the eye tests, you
know what I mean that you can't really explain from
the stands.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, we would.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
You come up with many discussions on this pot as
far as best point guard to the era, best crossover,
best individual move, a lot of stuff. So today we're
talking about obviously the best trios of the nineteen nineties
and when you guys came together and go to state
that run TFC, Like how exciting was it when y'all
first joined forces? And do you think y'all could have
(02:49):
a lasting legacy like y'all like you ended up like creating.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Well, you know, it was great, man, We had a
great time. We understood basketball. We practice with one another
every day talking about you know, if a team plays
us this way, if a guy plays us that way,
or going into a game and shoot around, you know,
so and so Wan he wants to guard me this way.
(03:13):
So I'm gonna go back door on him a couple
of times. Then I'm gonna use this to do something
like that, you know, just to get open, just to
just to just to get some easy buckets, you know.
And man, you know, when you got three guys that
have great IQ's of the game, it's just easy. It's
(03:37):
easy for everybody else too. You know, you ride higginst
Mario Alli, Jim Peterson, Tom Tober out in Lister. You know,
I go on and on and On and you know,
we just had great basketball minds that love to play
the game basketball. You know, after practice new he had
to kick us out at times, he really literally had
(03:59):
to kick us out of the time. Sharuna's Marcelonas a
lot of people don't know man Sharuna's Marcelonas. Nobody could
guard that man when he was healthy. Nobody in NBA
could guard him. Nobody, And he had strong hands, he had.
He was the first one, the very first one that
had the euro step. They wasn't even calling it the
euro step. They was called it traveling then, but they
(04:20):
didn't call it travel on him. We thought he was traveling,
but the refs like, no, he kept that foot down
and he dis descended or uh and made a play.
So he the one that he the first one that
had all those moves and he don't get the credit
for that. And and and that's you know, that's a
shame that you know, when when you come out with
(04:41):
something that they don't credit you for, they credit you know,
Manos Genoboli or or uh, Luca Donchis or this guy.
That guy he was actually the first person that had
done it in the NBA or in in in in
basketball period. So but no, but Chris, Mitch and Tim
(05:01):
Ron Tamsey did not stay together long enough, you know,
and that was unfortunate.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Yeah, I mean that was my leads me to my
next question, Like y'all. You hear about the lower y'all,
y'all trio throughout the league, especially in the West Coast
and the Bay Area, and y'all have like a lasting legacy,
like like y'all played together for ten years, it's only
like two and a half years. Like why why do
you think you're like y'all talked about so much? Even
(05:33):
like y'all played for two and a half years, I
didn't win a championship like y'all. Y'all names Ring Louder
and a lot of a lot of trios that did
win championships that would have together for a long time.
Why did what makes y'all so cool?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Like to talk about we had a lot of fun,
you know when we went out there, we played with charisma,
We played with confidence. We people feared us when we's
out there playing. You know, they didn't know what to
do against us. Gary Payton said, once they traded Mitch,
(06:07):
we had y'all, but with three of y'all. We didn't
know what to do with all three of y'all. And
I understood that. I understood what he was saying, and
you know, I thought that Nelly should have just built
around us, you know, and and we would have all
figured it out. But you know, not to give even
(06:27):
give us a chance two and a half years because
we went there. That first year, we played together and
you know, we just had to you know, we had
to get used to playing with one another. Then we
that second year, we was boom bam. We was off
and running from the first get go, boom bam out
the gate at Denver with Denver Nuggets. We often running
(06:50):
the whole season. Then we beat the San Antonio Spurs.
Then we lose to the LA Lakers. But you know,
we had something there, We had something there, and we
felt special and our team felt special. And he gets
traded that next year. That deflated us. That really really
(07:11):
really deflated our team. And he tried to, you know,
get us going. We was good, we made the playoffs,
we still top five, top six, but it was just
it was just something missing man, and that was Mitch.
And we could have stayed together for at least five
(07:32):
six years you never know what might have happened. You
never know.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, as Seth mentioned, like again, everybody always talks about
run TMC. My question this is not related. You started
off with number five and then you switched to ten.
How did that come about?
Speaker 1 (07:48):
The New Bowl had number ten. I went to the
New Gold they and I think I got stuck it
into it. Somebody tell me, yo, just add to them
how much you wanted? And I think they sucked me
into that court question. They suckered me into to ask
him Minute. I wasn't gonna ask minew nothing. I wasn't
gonna ask me nothing. I was just gonna I was
just gonna figure it out that I was gonna take
(08:09):
number five. But yeah, I said, I'm new man. You
know you got number ten, you know, and and and
you know, Minute was right. Minute said, and he always
told the truth. God rested, so he always said. He
said that, and I didn't think about it. He said,
you know, I wore that number when I first came
to the United States too. You know, when I first
(08:30):
came and played here in the United States, I wore
that number. They gave me number ten. And I didn't
really realize that until he said that, and then when
I asked him, you know, how much will it take
to you know, get my number? He said, your whole contract?
I said what, I said, five hundred thousand. He said,
(08:52):
let me see how much you wanted. I said, I
told now, mind, I went to the train, I said,
I take number five. So yeah, that's that's why I'm
not and please but me, you know, let's see how
if you really wanted rookie, give me your whole check. Now,
it was great. That number is special to me. It's
hanging up in the raptors. But my first year, now
(09:12):
it wasn't that special.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
That's a little nugget.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
I didn't even know that.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, man, So when I was collecting trading cards, it's
actually considered an air card because it's two different versions.
It's the five which has the rookie on it with
the Rookie label on it, and then it's another one
where he wears ten. And I was like, now they
messed up. It's no way, Tim hardaway War five. It
bothered me for a long time, probably was like seven
(09:39):
eight years old, like I'm like, no way, there it is.
He had it right or deck, So you know, and
I hope Mitchell and ness can make that one right there,
because that's definitely one of those like deep cuts, like
you gotta know to know that he wore five before
t and kicked off man. But again, like you said,
(09:59):
if y'a wouldn't had three maybe four more you know
years together, actually would have made a deep run and
would have been you know, one of the teams that
had a banner up there in Golden State before you know,
the twenty sixteen years.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I really do believe that, I really, I really do
believe that we would have had a great run and
we would have made it to the finals with that team.
I really truly with us three and putting the team
around us, I really truly thought so. And I mean,
like I said when he traded, you know, I'm not
(10:33):
getting on Billy Owens, you know what I'm saying. Billy
Owns was a great player. But we had we had
this corps Chris Mullin, Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond that should
not have been broken up, you know, and that core
(10:54):
could have done something for the Golden State Warriors in
the eighties and the late eighties ninety and we didn't
have a chance to do that. But there's nothing against
you know, Billy Owns. But our core was us three
and we had a chance and we never we never
got that chance to produce.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
I mean that sounds similar to okay, okay, see you
know what I'm saying, James had to go to Houston.
When you really think.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
About it, Yeah, that core, like all three of them,
averaged over twenty two a game. And like we we'll
talk about these other trios as we go forward in
the pod, and it's always one that like Lesson, like
one of the lesser guys. It's a main duo and
then it's like a extra guy. Maybe he's a defender
more or he's scoring less points or whatever. They run
tnc all was getting to it. All did it in
(11:40):
different ways, but all like main guys in our own sense.
So that's I mean, that's what makes it sense.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
We shared the ball, you know, we were very selfish,
you know, even though we got our points, even got
even though we got our shots up, but we was
efficient and getting our shots up. We was efficient and
playing the game, you know, and that's what made us good.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
All right, Seth, you mentioned some of the other trios.
Let's jump right into it. Uh, Jordan pipp and Rodman.
How you know you faced them with Miami. How how
good was that trio?
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Very good? They was, I mean they was Hall of
Famous like we are. You know, they was matched, you know,
they they you know, they they had. They was in
the system. They was in the system where they they
with with Chicago Bulls and and what Phil Jackson brought
to that table for them. They was in a great
(12:36):
system that was great for their not only not only
the team, but their bodies. They didn't over exert themselves.
They didn't over you know, like we're gonna run. They
ran when they got stops, or they ran when they
had opportunity to run. Other than that, they they didn't
run that much. But they but they just knew how
(12:57):
to get into the getting into and the over open
court and make plays when they needed to make plays.
But it was all about their defense. They stopped you
on defense. They turned you. They turned you over, you know,
and lot they were. They was long, you know, and
if you and if you was one dimensional team like
going down low, they double team, you know, and they
(13:20):
was long. You had to throw it over Scottie pippin arms,
you had to throw it over Luke Lonely Arms, Tony
Cool Coach Arms. All of them was Randy Brown, you.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Know, like yeah, yeah, yeah, Ron.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Randy Brown, Brandy Brown, six five sixty six long arms.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
So it was difficult man. And I mean so you
had to run high pick and rolls, you know, you had,
and a lot and a lot of people don't know
they played Zone two. They just knew how to play
this song. They just knew how to get out that,
you know, the areas that they needed to when they
supposed had got out. So they was playing his own
(14:00):
but you know, they knew. They was very sneaky with Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
You had Jordan's.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
He had Jordan Pippen. Robin.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
You also had earlier in the decade.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
The Jordan's Pippen was Horace Grant trio too, So it's
kind of like Grant and Robin kind of switched places
as part part of that trio, and Horace Grant did
in a different way. He was a little bit more
of a score than Robin, and he well.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I mean he was a score. He was more than
he was more of a score than Robin. But he
did just exactly what Dennis Robin did, except get under
your skin.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
He still did the dirty work, the dirty work, for sure.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Right he still he's still dirty work now. You know.
You know they played against he he had to play
against some some some big forwards. You know, he had
the guard. He had the guard. Who was that Charles Barkley,
you know, so, I mean he was he was guarding
some big fellas. I mean, he was guarding some scores too.
(14:57):
So so Horace Grant was, you know, a big part
of they three feet in the first one, the first one. Yeah,
I'm tall and I'm gonna tell you. I'm gonna tell
you this. You know who don't get enough credit. Jerry Crops.
They booed him, they bool him, they did they you know,
they did him dirty. You know, the boys players did
him dirty. Uh And they know who I'm talking about.
(15:19):
He put that team together for nothing. He was a
baseball he was a baseball scout, and he asks and
he asked the owner, Jerry Rhyinstorf, hey I can put
a team together, and he put it.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Damn he put up.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
He put a Hall of Fame team together that went
out there and got.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
A legit dynasty eight yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
And it was all him. It was all him, all right,
and then then he has to tell them this didn't
come from him, It came from Rhyin starf Ranstorff told
him to go tell Phil and Michael and Scott it
was the last dance. So everybody's on on on Jerry Krause.
(16:04):
That wasn't Jerry Crouse's decision. That was Ryan storff decision.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
So, like I.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Said, people getting on on Jerry Crouse, that's a bunch
of belongings.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
We had Craig Hodges on here, uh a few pods ago,
and he was talking about all the all the stuff
Jordan and people needed around them to make them a
championship team. Like they get Jordan against a lot of
the credit, and it it's the controversial topic because they
he I mean, he obviously Jordan, but he gets all
the credit for those championships as far as all the
people around them that made that whole thing, orchestra made
(16:36):
it all work.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
So and that's that same thing you're.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Saying, it doesn't matter Larry Bird, he had, he had
McHale and Robert Parrish. You know, Isaiah couldn't win it
until he got Mark Wyatt there, you know, and what
they had, you know, it's a lot of people that
you need a team and everybody think that you it's
(16:58):
one day gonna get act late s g A. He
got all the accolades, all right, but who else? I mean,
the team really wants it, don't work with everybody.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Defense work is what wins game.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah for sure, it's not one guy playing defense is
the whole team. So yeah, you got to put a
team around him, and a team got to understand who
that guy is. And that's why you gotta have a coach.
A coach got to make that team understand what's who's
gonna do what, how we're gonna do it, and this
is how we're going to win, just like the Golden
State Warriors, you know, the same way with State Warriors
(17:36):
right now.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Yeah, I mean obviously we played with you with with
Junior a bunch in Dallas. And that's the thing that
Luca was was trying to he's learning throughout his career.
Is obviously he's putting up those numbers and and doing it.
He can orchestrate the offense kind of by himself. Get
got shot. But as you get older and learned how
to win games, you got to bring your team like
you gotta sacrifice stuff. And you gotta you, You gotta
(17:59):
empower other guys. You got need you need it to.
You needed three that's gonna carry you some nights. It
can't be one guy. And that's I mean, that's what
we're talking about with as far as these trios.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, and you gotta have a coach that's gonna talk
to you, and that's gonna make you understand. You know,
as a team, this is how we're gonna play. We
can't play this way or we're gonna lose. We gotta
play this way. This how it's gotta be ran. This
is what you gotta do individually and as a team collectively.
And that's how we're gonna win. And and and I
think that's what in Dallas the coaches couldn't do to Luca.
(18:34):
Luca was running everything. Luca was telling them what to do.
JJ Reddick is like, I'm running this ship, all right,
and I'm gonna be damned if I do, and I'm
gonna be damned if I don't. And that's why I
tell coach, run your own ship, because you're gonna be
damned if you do, damn if you don't. And you're
gonna get you're gonna get.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Regardless, and I mean.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Regardless speaking of great coaches with the trio Jerry Sloan,
but the Tree all stocked them alone in Hornersheck, how
good were they?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Man, who I'm gonna tell you something. You could be
blowing them out by thirty in the first half. They
coming back, They coming back. They making them run, especially
at their house. They're making a run. They gonna cut
it within two, They're gonna cut it within four. But
they making a run. They stayed with the offense. They
(19:27):
did what they did that then what's that? I forget?
Did U s l a cut and uh screen across?
But see, that's the way the game was played back then.
And you had to get around those picks. You had
to get over those picks. That was wasn't no switching
or anything like that. That's what made the game great,
you know, That's what made the game really good because
(19:47):
you had to think. You had to think, and you
had to be in shape, and you had to understand
how to uh get around picks, how to get over picks,
how to stand in front of your man. The defense
was different and everything like that. But man, those three
guys together together and I tell you that if Jeff
Malone was a little bit younger, just a little bit younger, man,
(20:11):
that's why they traded for horna check because Jeff Malone
got hurt and he got older and they needed another
guy to come in and make shots like Jeff Malone.
Because Jeff Malone, whoa Lord my god, he made he
made shot. He was just like your dad. He made
shots after shots. At the shots. You can leave him
(20:31):
open those. But and the way they and your dad
with with with with with.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
With, oh man, he would he actually it was crazy
as he got drafted there, but then they can't keep him.
He got so he got drafted. They traded to Cleveland
for you and then the expansive draft came and he
was in Charlotte. Charlotte took him mut Yeah he was.
They thought that too because they drafted him. But obviously
he ain't really get on the floor and then get
a chance out there right right.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
But I'm gonna telling you this man, if he if
he could have ever stayed there, oh my god, how
he can shoot the ball. They would have loved.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
And that's what I mean. That's what I love about
the nineties too. Like everybody's that's a system that fit
that trill perfectly. So every team had kind of had
to play a different style of basketball. Sometimes I'm looking
out there right now, and I mean, it's obviously it's
great talent out there on the floor, but a lot
of teams are playing the same same way, the same system.
You see the same stuff night in night out, and.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
They can't you know, you know, you know what's unique
about Denver. If you look at Denver, they got some
stuff that's same, but they got a lot of stuff
that's different. How they crossed the screen and bring Murray
back up and then have this guy cross for this
guy and then he throws a live here in Murray Miket.
I mean, they got a lot of different variations of stuff.
(21:48):
And then you're right, but a lot of teams run
the same the same stuff. You know, when we when
we's playing, you probably had four things that were the
same as another team. Definitely lock me all right, Definitely
turned five they just call it different or turn four
they call it different. One up, one down, that's forward
(22:10):
the center, and thumb up that's a high pick and roll.
That was it, you know, and then then other and
then you had other stuff cross picks and this and
that that you that a lot of teams could not
have because they didn't have the Personnelity had that, and
then if you got that personnel, you could do that stuff.
But yeah, teams run that stuff. You know, they run
the same stuff all the time. And Draymond came on.
(22:34):
You know, I heard this thing about him in Oakley.
I tell you that love Draymond Green. Love Draymond Green.
I'd be the first one to tell Pat Rowley he
made a mistake on Draymond Green. We need to go younger.
He didn't want to go younger. He didn't like Draymond
Green for some reason. And he kept he kept with
Shane Battier. Yeah, you should have. He needed younger folks
(22:57):
and that knew how to play, that had basketball IQ.
All right, So now I think saying that, I know
Draymond Green could have played in that era easily with
his mindset, his basketball IQ where you come from, he
could have played in that ara. Now you gotta know
(23:20):
he has to know right now, the ratings are down
for the NBA. The ratings are down. Our ratings never
went down. Our ratings stayed up and sometimes they got higher.
People love the way we played basketball. People love how
we moved the ball. People loved how we played defense.
Even though it was in the nineties, the hundreds or
(23:40):
eighty some games, people love that style of basketball. A
lot of these guys, a lot of people fans don't
like this style of basketball because first of all, there's
too many threes, okay, and it's too many turnovers, and
it's too much one on one high pick and row,
high pick and row, high, pick and row. It's not
no movement. It's not fun. It's not fun to watch,
(24:04):
you know, so so so and Drey my I disagree
with him on that part. And another thing, guys today,
I saw when I say sault, we had people in
the stands talking to us all the time, all the time.
If he's not, if he's not, if a guy is
not really belittling you or or or uh saying something
(24:31):
like the N word, or you will be or you know,
being real bad to you, calling you Angela Reese, that's
that's that's that's nothing.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
I mean, that's a thing. Man, Like, I don't know
what I agree with you. I don't know when that
started happening. Like in the game.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah, I figured like Russ started doing a lot.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
When people will say stuff like that, normal fans get
on you for just constantly, constant, constant nagging, and all
of a sudden it's too far.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
They just off the game.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
They think supposed to be what a fan supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
That's what that's what he's supposed to do. And guess
what he has done it even though y'all won the game,
but he was in your ear. He was in your head,
that's what you was thinking. You could say no, but
your actions showed it. Your action, I wouldn't We never
wouldn't have went over there. Or like a guy said,
yo yo Jordan, you can't dunk over a seven foot guy.
(25:23):
He dunked over Mark Eaton seven four. He said, is
he tall enough? You know that's what you respawn out there?
Respond on the court, don't respond to a guy. So
that's why I said, a lot of these guys are
soft because they let everything get on them. They let
these guys or these fans get on them, and they
take it literally literally.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
So you mentioned uh not being able to switch in
your era, how personal did you take your matchups night
in and night out, especially another point guard?
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Yeah, it was it wasn't like I wasn't guarding up
Rod Strickman or Kevin Johnson or Gary Payton or you know,
John Stockton. You know, uh, you're gonna get embarrassed. You're
going to get embarrassed. You know, to real branded you're
going to get embarrassed. You know, everybody gets embarrassed. I
(26:19):
gett I get embarrassed, I embarrass somebody else. That's just
what's the nature of the bat Because of the game.
I tell kids today, everybody gonna get dumped on. Everybody's
gonna get dumped. Everybody's gonna shoot the air ball. Everybody's
gonna shoot a brick. Everybody's gonna turn the ball over.
You know, everybody's gonna get shaked, and you're gonna shake somebody.
(26:41):
So stop out here being embarrassed. Just make yourself better.
And if you make yourself better, then you can leave
all that other stuff alone. But they can't. They can't
make theyself better because they're thinking about, oh, I can't
get shipped. I can't get embarrassed. When you're getting embarrassed anyway,
because your friend is holding up a camera phone and
watch you get shipt.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
They're gonna talk about it. Regardless. So you mentioned how
good was the Phoenix Sun's trio with Barkley and Dan
Marley and kJ.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Oh, I'm gonna tell you something, man, So my introduction
to the NBA, my first game with kJ oh, my god,
oh wait, he killed me. And that's all I can think.
I couldn't even go to sleep that night. That's I
couldn't go to sleep that night. I really couldn't. And
but they you know, you had Eddie Johnson, kJ and
(27:36):
Tom Chambers all right, Oh my god, I mean you
know they they man, I mean coming down. And then
you had the Greyhound coming off the bench. God rest
his soul. I mean they had they had They had
a really really nice team and Cotton Fish Simmons knew
how to coach and they had the right person. Now,
(27:57):
they just couldn't get over that hump for some reason.
You had a trio of them where it was hard
to guard, especially pick and roll. You can't switch, you
can't switch. And you know, and we're not even talking
about shooting threes. We're not talking about shooting threes. We're
just talking about shooting mid range jump shots that was
(28:20):
consistently going in at fifty percent. If it was wide open.
People was making mid range jump shots.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
And they played a faster pace. Am I not right?
They got up and down a little bit more than usual.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
That's kind of interesting that you pointed out the fifty
percent mid range because imagine steps Era taking the recovery
will be kind of rough if it swung the ball
and just taking more mid range because you know, obviously
guys are long athletic, but like guys taking that shot
a little bit more, I don't know what the points
would probably be looking like with the options and how
(28:55):
the defense is.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
So I think a lot of people upset or that's
this is what I'm hearing about Indiana and OKC being
in the finals. I said, people, y'all missing a point.
Watch these two teams play basketball. They played basketball the
(29:17):
way the game is supposed to be played. They're not
taking three, They're not taking sixty threes. That's what y'all
upset about. They taking mid range jump shots they taken.
They taking jump shots that they can get. You know,
they they are coach very well. If they got if
they taking threes, it's wide open threes, or they it's
a desperation three that they need to shoot other than
(29:40):
that they playing beautiful basketball. I love for them to
go seven games. Man, it was absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
What I loved about it everybody on both teams had
to be guarded on the floor. It's like none of
that I'm guard to when I can leave a guy
wide open because he's.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Not the ball.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, you got you got nice slips, having a crazy game.
You got topping stepping up, you got Jalen Williams, you
know what I mean, Like every every night you couldn't sleep, so.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Could you couldn't sleep every night because it was a
different person on each team making plays on offense and defense.
So yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Mentioned that you taw Jazz team being a team that
wouldn't go away. That reminds me of the Pacers team
during that finals, where you they those leads weren't safe,
you know what I mean, where people were like, oh,
I'm about to go, you know, this game over and
then we're like the last two minutes of the game
of a deciding overtime or you know, a crucial possession
the last ten to twenty seconds of the game. So yeah,
(30:42):
that was that was a really exciting, uh you know series,
all right, this one is very controversial Hakeen, Vernon Maxwell,
Kenny Smith, those back to back Rockets teams, how good
were they? A lot of people say, if the Bulls
were still intact, they probably would have beat them. You know,
you were in that that era, you face both teams.
How good were the Rockets? And do they are they
(31:05):
disrespected as a back to back team during that era?
Speaker 1 (31:09):
I don't think they disrespected. I think that when people
says that, and Kenny Smith and Vernon Maxwell and I
Kim and if they supposed to say no, because they're
the champions. For me personally, I think if Michael would
have played those two years, they would have won eight
in a Rocket.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
All right, all right, we said, we said, but I
think I'm I'm an og Bulls fan, and I look
at it from like a perspective of like peoples like
are you tripping? You being biased? And I was just like, dude,
like how you mentioned run? Timc y'all chemistry was so
locked in and plug and play to a point where
(31:50):
I watched them get Bill Cartwright, Will Purdue, Luke Longley,
y'all mentioned Horace Grant earlier, Dennis Rodman. They even added
veteran players like Robert Parrish. That had championship experience every
different time Dickie Simpkins, the list goes like, you know,
Tony Kokach.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you that. So I think
the first three pat against Portland. I think it was
game six, Michael was having a sub part game. I forget.
I think it was game six or game five something. Yeah,
it was game six, and it was at home. He
was having a sub part game, all right, And the
(32:31):
end of the third quarter, Field was struggling about damn,
should I take these guys out? And should not take
them out? And as the assistant coach said, put the
put the other guys in. Jerry seastein that he used
to play with the Utah Jazz, my buddy Judge Buschler,
(32:53):
he used to play with me. I forget who the
guards were. And Michael, Michael, and Scotty was out. I
think Scotty came in for a little bit. Michael was
definitely out and he I mean he was struggling and
they sat him down for about four or five minutes
and the boy. Yeah, it was against Portland and the
(33:13):
Bulls actually went up six seven points when they were
struggling to go up sixt seven points. And those guys
came in and played very well. Will Purdue and those
guys they played very well. And when Michael and them
came back in, you can see the chemistry, like I said,
the chemistry, the chemistry of that team. It was so strong.
(33:37):
When you played against them, you could feel. I mean,
he rubbed his knuckles, he did something like this, or
he went he rubbed his knuckles and did or he
did five five man, whatever he did. They ran that
ship to precision to precision, and somebody was always open.
Somebody always got a shot open, somebody always made a play.
(34:01):
So yeah, man, I mean that that's the way it was.
And you know, and with and with Houston, it was Keen,
ha Keen, Hai Keen and Hai Keen. That's who they're
going with, you know. And they knew that they was
going with Hai Keen and Hai Keen. Would have had
to had to find them people because they was coming
to double lay in the game. They let you have
(34:24):
all your points. First through third quarter they let you do.
But in the fourth quarter they come.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
To duble and like you mentioned, they long, so them
passes is tipped, you know them long de blong skip
passes ain't making it.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Or yet, or they're not getting there on time. So
you can catch and shoot the ball. You gotta catch
and think about what you know, what the defense is that.
I got a question for you, talk about this trio
in Houston. You got on Keen Drexeler Robert r You
think Robert Ois should be in the Hall of Fame.
I don't think they're gonna put him in the Hall
of Fame because of his numbers. Uh, he had seven
(34:59):
rings and all that, but I don't think that I
don't think they even consider him as being a Hall
of Fame basketball player. What he has done for each
and every team that he has went to. Now that
that's you know, something that that nobody could never take
away from him. He got seven rings. No, nobody can
(35:21):
never take away from him. But you know, I he
I don't think that they think that he did enough
to to to to be a Hall of Famer. That
that's what That's what I think. I think. You know,
everybody should you know who played this game that contribute
(35:41):
in this league up to a high level, like like
a Robbert Rory should be considered as a Hall of
Famer because without him, them teams wasn't won, Lakers wouldn't
have won. Now, Lakers wouldn't have won. I mean he
he made I mean really really, really really clutch plays
(36:03):
on office and defense, you know, and with the Houston
Rockets too. But yeah, I don't think they they.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Not to shake things up. Obviously, there are some great
teams that have been inducted into the Hall of Fame.
Do you think there should be an individual category for teams?
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Teams, yeah, yeah, teams yeah, but categories Well, I mean
then I mean you gotta put you know, mister Hustle,
I mean, mister Hustles, it were there, and of course,
I mean, you know you gotta put, you gotta put. Uh.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
But that's the great debate right now for the sixth
Man of the Year award between Lou Williams and and
Jamal Crawford. They scored a lot of points. They won
this award, but like just because they wanted three times,
do they get a nod? How do you get in it?
I think.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
You got to be one of those ones like you
to be in the Hall of Fame. That you gotta
be one of those ones.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
That's gonna be tough too. That that that's gonna be
tough too. I don't think you know, just because you
six man three times in a row, I mean three
times in your career, I don't that's gonna be a
hard one to put over with them, with the with
the committee. I mean, you know they were some bad boys,
(37:16):
but you know they.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
Like, yeah, the bad great great players.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
I mean six minutes.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
I mean you gotta talk about it when you talk
about the history of the game, but hall of fame,
like you got to be one of the best in
the league. And if you're not, if you're not All
NBA All Star yeah, ag two games?
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (37:37):
How oh, I'm glad you mentioned that eighty two game season.
How important was it because I always compare it to
like missing school, right, you don't want to miss school?
How important was your availability to you? You know what
I mean? Like if you was obviously you hurt, you hurt.
But I look at always games played from yall era
(37:59):
and y'all being high eighties, high seventies, five games played,
you know, just durable. What do you think is the
difference between y'all era and now?
Speaker 1 (38:13):
So when we when we was playing, it was a
thing called if you was on injury reserve. You had
to stay out five games. You couldn't play for five games,
even though you was ready to play, you couldn't play
for five games. And a lot of guys lost their
jobs in five games, not start, not start guys. Guys
(38:37):
lost their jobs in five games. So if you're coming
off the bench and you like you get hurt, you
out for five games. The next guy step up, it
put you down to two guys. So you have you
have to reget your stuff back together and be able
to play, you know, get that, get your position back.
(38:58):
So a lot of guys played hurt back then, which
was which was which was crazy. But a lot of
guys took care of themselves. The ones that took care
of themselves knew how to, you know, stay healthy and
knew how to stay on that court. And you know,
like your dad, so you're dad, you know he knew
(39:21):
how to stay on that court, you know, because he
because he knew he especially coming off that bench you hurt,
You're like, damn, I got five games. And five games
is like it could be an internpretive man, it could
be like today.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
He was saying, that's a common theme. He was saying
the same thing, like even in training camp.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
He had to.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
He showed up the training camp competing for that spot
because there was less roster spots.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
It was and I open out letting this young guy
beat me out any day. He he's not getting my man,
it's not he's not getting the opportunity to go out
there and show he could take my job. And he
felt like that every year for sixteen years that he
played in the league.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
You had to you had to. You had to come
in in shape. You had to come in in shape.
You couldn't come in out of shape, or you was
behind eight ball right then and there. So yeah, but
we took prior to playing eighty two games, our mind,
our bodies, our mental aspect, and our physical aspect was
ready to play eighty two games. So if you played
(40:21):
eighty two games each year, that's just a tribute to
you and how you took care of your body and
how ready you was to play. I think a lot
of these guys today, you know, it's a lot of can't, can't,
or I can't do this, I can't do that, or
I'm not gonna do this, or I'm not gonna do that,
and It's always instilled in their head. Now where or
(40:45):
I'm not I'm not gonna play eighty two games. Fuck that,
I'm not just not gonna do that.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
I gotta shoot it some bells too, because a lot
of it is the medical teams too.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Like I'll be into some of these practices.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
I've seen some some medical status walk into practice and
tell all right, they've done enough today, like cancer like
practice practice over God, God's got it off the court.
Like that's that's kind of the mindset that's kind of
being drilled into us now, is rass rast, rast, rest,
rest instead of pushing yourself to the limit.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Right, I had I had so when I was coaching
assistant coaching. Uh you know, we had some guys where
you had that thing on, Yeah, that little little thing
whatever it is, you had it on. And you go
out there and you somebody want to work out for
forty They they they at their threshold already there where
(41:36):
they where they can't even practice already. But but we
can't stop them from going out to Yo. What we're
gonna say, No, you can't work out, you can't work
on your game. Chris mother used to work out an
hour before practice, an hour, run up and down, get
about you know, three hundred shots in being a dog
out ass sweat. He goes back in there, he takes
(41:59):
a ship hour and everything gets dried off and he
gets ready for.
Speaker 4 (42:04):
Yeah, I'm been going through that now. The low management
like not low Manda, but they track your load. So
you got to put on the little the tracker to
say how hard you're going to practice. They put it
on me when I step on the court, work out
pre practice. You can only go this long. So you
get ready for practice and.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
We go three hours. We shuld to go three hours?
And who if we and then just say this, if
we didn't have practice, if we didn't have practice, say
if we come there, sh you have court, you have
shoot a half court and it goes in practice over man,
we in there playing three on three.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
Whole about an hour's days.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
That's commitment. All right, We're going to Pacific Northwest? How
good were Gary Pagon, Sean Kemp and Della Triumph?
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Outstanding? Outstanding man, hard to guard? They the glove when
he gets going. They had this engine going, they said,
and then it started going. It was funny. Man, I look,
(43:09):
man Seattle, I'm gonna tell you, man, that was one
of the best arenas to go play in, best cities,
go playing. Man, them fans are crazy and they get
them hype and they and it's a it's a great
gym to go in there and shoot in But man,
when they got going, you know, Gary Payton with his defense,
(43:31):
I mean he could change the game with defense. Gary Payton,
I mean he changed the game. You look up, so
he had it didn't it didn't go on to box
score how many pressures he had, or deflections he had,
or or or or you know, uh, you know when
he stole the ball, he had assists he had that Man,
he could walk out with ten points, you know, ten
(43:54):
assists and eleven rebounds or whatever and have about seven
eight steals if they really can't deflections whatever, each and
every game. Man, that dude, he could just take over
the game that way. Sean Kemp, I mean, once he
got going, it was it was out of control. He
blocking shots, dunking on you, dunking on you, dunking on you. Again.
(44:18):
The enthusiasm and with devilis Shrimp calmed him down to
they used to go definitely shrimp six he could take yeah, six'.
Nine he could take you off the. Dribble he could
post you, up had nice. Heads he posted you, up turn,
around jump shot off the right. SHOULDER i mean them
threw was very nice, man very.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Nice all.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Right, lastly The San Antonio, Spurs Tim, Duncan David robinson
And Avery.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Johnson Avery, Avery, Avery, avery the, general the general that controlled.
Everything that's how they won their first. One he controlled.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
Everything it's true because when your two best players are
power forward and, center you got to have a guy
who get him the ball in their spots like they
can't bring the ball up in and and then shape
the offense great off like create plays for. Themselves you
needed a Guy avery in there, to like you, said
run the, show get him their, spots run out, high, low.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
And And i'm gonna tell you. This when they Got Tim,
Duncan David robinson was, Like, yeah this is your. Team
we're gonna go to. You they gonna come to me
When i'm going but we definitely going to you all the.
Time and they went to him all the. Time they
(45:43):
it was turn, four turn five And. David you know
a lot of people to Know david can make a
fifteen foot jump. Shot he was forty forty two from fifteen.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Range, yeah you.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Know so, SO i mean they Had Papa vich had
a nice system where they can make make plays and
people knew where we're gonna, go but we're gonna play,
defense but we're gonna get out and. Run and but,
yeah it was All avery. Though he used to get.
People so so this is what he did. Do he'll
bring the ball, up he'll pass it and he'll tell
(46:16):
everybody to. Wait he go to the short corner so
he could shoot that little short corner jump shot because
it's gonna come to. Him he just gotta make that, short,
short short corner jump. Shot and he's, like all, right
just run and. Play and they're run and. Play give
it To tim or give it To david and he'll
be over down that short. Corner and that's how they
(46:36):
that's how they Beat New York. Knicks The New York
knicks didn't Think Avery johnson can make.
Speaker 4 (46:41):
Those, yeah because you know they're gonna double the Big.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yeah so, YEAH i mean that that that that that.
WAS i like their team And Mario ellie was on that. Team,
uh you know they they chemistry was great and and
the reason why the chemistry was great it's because Of
Hayvey johnson in.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
General all, right we're gonna take a quick.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Break when we come, back we're gonna give our greatest
trio of the. Nineties all, right, sef who do you
(47:28):
have as your top five greatest trio of the?
Speaker 4 (47:31):
Nineties all, Right i'm ima start. Off i'm gonna hit.
Five number. Five i'm going with The sonics, Man Gary,
Payton devil Of, Shrimp Sean. Kemp that was MY NBA
jam trio right. There that's WHY i know a lot of.
These that's WHY i know so much about all these.
Trios by the WAY i, WAS i was seeing it
with my dad was in the. League but THE Nba
jam got me right as far as my knowledge of the.
(47:52):
Nineties number FOUR i Got Utah Utah, jazz the malone
stocked in the. Sec number THREE i got RUN Tmc.
Electric LIKE i, said all three averaging over twenty two is,
special like even in today's game with high a lot more,
offense a lot more. Possessions like three people averaging twenty
(48:14):
two is unseen even in today's.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
League so that's.
Speaker 4 (48:17):
Crazy and then number two and number, ONE i got
both of The bulls. Trios one With robin one With Horse.
GRANT i, think like you said that that that top
that one with With. Robin the seventy two and seventy
and ten. Team that defense is just. CRAZY i think
that's the, best maybe the best defensive team. Ever the
(48:37):
way they, robbing AND i mean Way jordan And pippin
will pick you up full and just hawk you the whole.
Game so that's my top, five all.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Right mine are going to be a little bit off
the list due to, time but number five J, Kidd Jim,
Jackson Jamal. Mashburn at, Four i'm gonna Go Brad, Doherty Larry,
Nance Mark price mm. Hm at, Three i'm gonna go
Run tim C at, Two i'm gonna Go Duncan robertson
(49:11):
And Avery. Johnson and then at one i'm gonna Go,
Jordan's pippin And.
Speaker 4 (49:16):
Robin, okay you kind of that's that's a different.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
File we didn't even get to all.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
THEM i liked.
Speaker 3 (49:21):
IT i like The mark.
Speaker 4 (49:22):
Place that's one of my favorite players, ever especially in the.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Nineties he was a.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
Dog all, Right, tim let's let us hear you're.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Five, well.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
So i'm gonna Go, Magic Sam perkins And James, Worthy, okay,
okay that's Who jordan's.
Speaker 4 (49:46):
Beat, yeah that's one of. Those, yeah you can talk
about them in The a's or the. Ninety that's one
of them. Twiners SO i like.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
That.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, yeah if they would have stayed, healthy oh lord, God.
Lee number, FOUR i would Go Kevin, Johnson uh what's his?
Speaker 3 (50:08):
Name harley And, Barkley, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Barkley And, thunderdam no, question Thunder. Dam, yeah they used
to beat our ass all the. Time. Yeah. Yeah then
number three of, course RON tmc.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
Number.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
Two you know, What, Seth i'm gonna be like you,
Man i'm gonna take the. Bulls i'm gonna take both
the bulls BECAUSE i, MEAN i, MEAN i mean With Scottie,
Pippen Horse grant And Michael jordan's you, know then you
got and then then then you go this way, too
you go you, go you Go Michael jordan coach with,
(50:51):
yeah you, know you Go cook, coach or you can
Go Dennis. Rob so since you Went Dennis rob AND
i will go on that on this okay, MAN i,
MEAN i, mean.
Speaker 3 (51:05):
OH i, LIKE i like.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
Everybody, Five we're gonna take one more break and we're
gonna do our favorite topic born in the wrong. Era
(51:27):
we went over some legendary, trios but there can only
be one that could be born in the wrong, era
which one would succeed in this modern day. Era Tim,
hardaway any trio that we just mentioned through the.
Speaker 4 (51:41):
Nineties, absolutely, Absolutely i'm gonna go with That Phoenix Sun squad.
TWO i, mean obviously it could be any of. Them
there could be any of, them just a single.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
Out, one no question them.
Speaker 4 (51:55):
THREE i like the, high high, speed fast, paced, entertaining
both entertaining in the.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Basketball and Then i'm gonna go With, Shaq kobe And Eddie.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
Jones, okay dumble.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
Down so it's this year Two, Kobe Eddie jones is
on his way out before he's, moved and Then shaq
second year From.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
Orlando, yeah, yeah you know that was good.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Three but they they didn't they didn't to, me they
didn't know how to co. Exist, okay you, know they
didn't know how to cast it because you know, why
they didn't have the right. Coaches, okay they didn't have
the right you, know if they, had if they had
the right, coach them three could have co. Existed.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
Definitely who was That Dale harris coaching them at that?
Speaker 1 (52:41):
TIME i THINK i think it Was Dale. Harris he
he really didn't know. THAT i mean you got to
first of, all you got two egos that's out of this,
world And kobe And, SHAQ i mean they out of this.
World AND i don't think he knew how to handle
those two. Egos. Uh Eddie jones was just guy that
(53:01):
that was, dead that could do whatever you need to, do, defense.
Offense he all purpose guy and. Everything but, YEAH i
like those three if they if they had a better.
Speaker 4 (53:11):
Coach, Yeah and that's a deep and that's ANOTHER i,
mean we can go in a deeper topic another. Time
but when you got this much talent on one, team
whether it's three guys four, guys you need to neither
need one a great, coach you can manage the. Egos
it's more about more than just putting in a great
system for him that will. Work is about managing the
egos and keeping everybody. Happy or you need a great
point guard who's running the, show somebody who can who
(53:34):
can get guys the ball on the right spots managed
and keep everybody happy by getting them the ball and
getting them that. Shot so you need one or another
day to make it.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
Work, Yep that's that's WHY i Like Steve kerr and you,
know and you know who's starting to grow on. Me
didn't think he was he was going to be a good,
coach AND i always, thought you, know he was just
obnoxious with what he was saying about the old team IS.
(54:02):
Jj the old school WAS Jj. Reddy you, know as
a guy that that that could only run, around couldn't,
dribble that going to catch and, shoot couldn't, guard and
other people on his team had to have his, back
you know for him to say a bunch of stuff
like like he was saying about us, now he couldn't
play AND i. Am but as a coach and his assistant,
(54:27):
coaches they had doing a hell of a job because he.
COMMUNICATES i like what he's. Doing he's communicating With luca
and making him understand what he needs to do to
make that team. Great And lebron coming. Back that's just
gonna even put the icing on the.
Speaker 2 (54:42):
Cake that's that's one way to end.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
It.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Man Tim Hardaway, senior thank you so much for joining.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Us hey go get.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Please shout your book out.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
Kill a crossover from the streets To chicago to. Basketball,
roorty go get. It out now must.
Speaker 3 (55:01):
Read i'm gonna go pick it up. Tomorrow it's about.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Me and HOW i was brought up and HOW i
Became Tim hardway and to kill a crossover and. Everything
so go get it right. Now it's An.
Speaker 4 (55:12):
Amazon i'm gonna read that on the road this year for.
Sure appreciate you coming, on, man legend and. LEARN i
learned a lot in this. EPISODE i don't know about, You, Trey.
Speaker 2 (55:21):
Yeah, NO i definitely. Did. Man you, know it's one
thing to look at trading cards and watch some, highlights
but you, Know tim was. There he's seen these. Guys
he validated a lot of. Guys he heard some guys
Like Jeff, Malone, sarunas you know WHAT i, mean being
an actual eurostep. Creator, man so many different nuggets, here
no pun so dot sign us, out sir. Man where
(55:41):
can they Find curry?
Speaker 3 (55:42):
Everywhere y'all know what it?
Speaker 1 (55:43):
Is the original Crossover king on ig And.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
Facebook, Okay And i'm At trey and At travaughn and
we're out Go.
Speaker 4 (55:58):
This has been A Unentity.
Speaker 5 (56:00):
Media, Originally goat was produced By iHeart podcasts And Unanimous.
Media it was hosted By, Bean Travon edwards and Step.
Hurk executive produced By Stephen curry And Eric. Baton co
executive Producer Colens Maria. Cutting the executive producers At iHeart
podcasts Are Sewn tittone And Jason. English this series was
(56:20):
produced By Derek jennings And Peter cut co Producer Kurt.
Reddy original music By Jesse. Woodard special thanks To Stephen
curry And Will. Pearson god is the production Of Unanimous
media and iHeart. Podcasts for more podcasts From, iHeartRadio visit
The iHeartRadio, App Apple, podcasts or wherever you get your
podcasts
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