June 8, 2021 • 45 mins
This week Rabia is joined by former fashion writer and editor Amina Akthar, author of the dark, diabolical, yet hilarious novel "Fashion Victim". Amina comes from a family with a rich djinn history, brought up to embrace the things that go bump in the night, and in this episode she shares her own hauntings, and how she got rid of an unwanted entity.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to The Hidden Gin, a production of I Heart
Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minkey. Hi, and
(00:30):
welcome to this very special bonus series of The Hidden Gin.
The interviews. In these episodes, you'll hear me talk to
people from all walks of life who have had GIN experiences,
are drawn to the stories of Gin, and draw lessons
from these stories. You'll hear from artists, scholars, writers, journalists,
and Gin exorcists, and even from me as I discuss
(00:53):
how and why this series came about in a very
personal conversation with my husband. Thanks for listening and enjoy.
Would you believe it if I told you there is
a deep and abiding connection between the fashion world and
the supernatural? Well, you might not, because I didn't, not
(01:13):
until I spoke to today's guest, Amana there Now Almana
is a former fashion writer and editor and a total fashionista.
She's worked at Vogue, l Style, the New York Times,
New York Magazine, where she was a founding editor of
The Cut blog. She's written for a whole lot of publications,
including Yahoo Style, Fashionista, x O Jay, Refinery twenty nine,
(01:35):
and for big fashion brands like berged Off, Goodman and
H and M's Ten Years of Style volume. After toiling
in the fashion ranks for over fifteen years, she now
writes full time in the desert mountains, where she's detoxing
from her once glamorous life, and she's the author of
a fantastic, hilarious, dark serial killer comedy called Fashion Victim,
(01:58):
which was her first novel published a couple of years ago.
We had a lot of fun in today's conversation, and
I learned a lot about the fashion industry and Almona's
generational ties to GIN. But just a little word of warning,
because Almina is out in the rugged wilderness of Arizona,
we did have some connection issues here and there, so
the audio might sound a little bit spotty and not
(02:18):
quite as crystal clear as I would have wished, So
sorry about that. But still, we had a fantastic conversation,
had a lot of laughs, and also I got some
genuinely scary chills. So check it out yourself. My interview
with author Almanna the Hi. Almanna, thanks for joining us
this week. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk
(02:39):
to you. Well, so I've told our listeners um all
about your background that you're a former fashion writer editor,
and I've told them a little bit about your first
book now, um, but I want you to tell them
more about your first book, because, first of all, I mean,
it's your first novel and it's got some high praise, right,
I mean it was, Um it was one of the
best crime in Miss three debuts by Crime Reads. Uh
(03:04):
it's I mean, like I saw like a whole half
page of all kinds of accolades, which is amazing really
for a first book. So congratulations on that, Thank you,
thank you. It was when I left the fashion world,
I had this idea, I wouldn't it be funny to
have a serial killer set in the fashion world and
(03:26):
no one takes her seriously or believe she's the killer.
So that was kind of the idea of it. And
then I just I have to I have to ask
you were you were you thinking about se real killing
like people in the industries that will happen to like
made you write this book? Oh my god, listen, it
was fifteen years of being on a diet, like having
(03:49):
to wear high heels. Yes, yes, absolutely, that's tough. There's
definitely people I kept in mind. Yeah, yeah, we were
you really fun to write. You know, it sounds like
a really fun read. I have ordered it, but I
haven't read it yet. Um, so I can't wait to
get into it. It It sounds like the kind of thing
I'm gonna take like the next time I take a break.
But let me ask you. Were you a writer before
(04:09):
this or you just kind of went right into it? Yeah?
I mean I was. I was an editor slash writer,
so mostly I did like blog writing for like like
New York Magazine. I launched the Cut blog and I
would you know, edit and right on there. And I
would write for l and edit for them. So, you know,
like all of places I've I've worked, I was always
(04:29):
editing and writing. Um. But I never thought of myself
as a novelist. I think, like you know, you you think, oh,
though those people get M F A S and IOWA
and stuff, and I didn't do that. But then I thought, well,
why don't I just write this and see what happens
and we'll go from there. And you know kind of
what I did. Well, I mean that says and and
(04:51):
uh Fashion Victim was published one ten Yeah right, And
but you're working on as sending. I'm working on the
next book. So I'm working on a second book. So, Um,
After after New York and that in the fashion world,
I moved to near Sedona, Arizona, where my father lives,
(05:13):
and I decided I wanted to kind of capture the
insane weirdness that is hear Um. And so that's the
it's a it's a weird cookie place. I mean, stunningly
beautiful because people are a little weird. You know, I'm
not gonna lie. It's like crystals mixed with maga hats,
you know. And you're it's a bizarre place. Well, you know,
(05:34):
I follow you on Twitter and I follow your I
follow your posts on Twitter where you're documenting all the
wildlife and I'm like, oh my gosh, she's living like
in a nat Geo special. I live on the side
of a mountain and I have a well and there's
a tarantula that hangs outside the front door. He's a
(05:55):
really big guy. So he's a big guy. But they're
very friendly and like not friendly, but they don't bother humans. Um.
And it's just a complete one eat from my life
in New York, like completely, and and why did you
decide to do that? It was it was it just
to be closer to your father, or you just needed
like a cleanse. Yeah, well that's actually I've been in
(06:22):
New York for over twenty years, and I I was
birked out, you know, I just I hit that point
where I didn't want to leave my apartment and I
was like, you know this, this is not healthy. And
my mom had passed away and my dad was by himself,
and you know, he's in his eighties. So I thought,
you know, this is a really good time for me
to be out there, so we can keep an eye
on him, make sure he's taken care of. And it's
(06:43):
pretty fun, a little weird, but fun. I love following
your when you put tweet about your interactions with your dad.
But I'm trying to remember, and I can't quite remember
when I started following you or why. I know, I
was looking for South Asian writers to follow at some
point in I don't know, but I feel like I
sort of following you because you tweeted something about a
(07:04):
gin um, which trobably did you probably did right, And
so your second book as stood, I mean, tell tell
us about a little bout your second book without giving
it all away. So the second book is called Kissmith
and hopefully and I'm still finishing it and dealing with
(07:24):
the publishing world and getting it published. But um, it
follows different women who are here in Sedona, and also
one who happens to be this and she's had a
very strange upbringing. Um, not because she's this, but because
her you know, her family was just weird. And I
feel like that's an important thing. It's like, this is
about everyone's family can be weird, regardless of where they're from,
(07:47):
you know, And it's really about like finding your place
and finding your people. And at the same time, of course,
there's a serial killer because I really enjoy killing people
in books. Um, It's a really right way to get
your anger and annoyance, how you know. So it's really
just so it's following all these women and you're trying
(08:07):
to figure out who to murder. It is so you know,
all these like scam artists, fake healers are are turning
up dead in the desert, and so it's like, who's
the killer, what's happening? Um, So that's when I'm I'm
working on now. But there is thank you Well The
(08:28):
Gin is gonna be my next book, um, and that
one I'm I'm still hammering out the idea. But what
it is is it it's this woman who um has
a gin and she didn't know it, and so she
makes this wish when she's five and you know, her
birthday to be and her name is Dunia Um. She
wants to be the best Dunia in the world, and
(08:49):
Dunia means world. So she what she doesn't realize is
that she's basically made this wish. And as she gets older,
she starts getting a Google alerts for other Dunias who
are dying all over the world in random, bizarre, not
at all seemingly related ways. And that came to me
(09:10):
because I've been getting Google alerts for Almanna up theres
all over the world who are dying like car accidents,
they have been shootings, and it's I've had like three
or four and it's so surreal where you're like, oh
my god, I'm sorry, other me like wow. So she
now has to try to figure out how to how
to make this stop and how she can be the
best her and so that's the whole book. And like
(09:31):
you know, is she also everyone thinks she's going crazy,
you know, So that's that's the idea for that next
one that actually started you know what, I want to
read all the books. They all sound So that's just
a fantastic idea. And I know you told me you
were doing like you're like starting to do like some
real research on jin stuff, but you don't really you know,
(09:52):
the research is like you know, I'm doing. I did
the research obviously for my series. You're gonna do the
research for your book. But we grew up also around
on all this, and I want to talk about that.
So where's your family from, by the way, I feel
like we all have. Oh, so, my my father from Lahore.
I mean he was from India, but you know after partitioning, right,
was mostly in Lahore. And my mother was from India
(10:14):
and then she was in because a very small village. Yeah,
it used to be small. It used to be small. Yeah,
but they're basically in the northern Punjab region. Yeah. My
family is from the similar region, same place. Yeah. Yeah,
my dad's Punjabi. My mother's is a Baton and my
dad's had the family SOUPI So okay, that's where a
(10:37):
lot of the strangeness has come in into our family. Okay,
So let's start there, because I want to know, Like
in so in your family growing up, we're jin stories
a thing that like we're just kind of like like
very common. Was it the kind of thing where kids
got together and then they stop stories or no, they
(10:59):
were like time stories, like my dad would like tell
us these stories about this. Um. He would tell us
the craziest bedtime stories like this. He grew up in
a village, and you know when he grew up, and
you know, he was born in the thirties, it was
a little different. Didn't necessarily grow up with his parents.
He grew up with other relatives. You know, it's just
kind of loosey goosey, I guess back then. And he
(11:22):
had there was a one room. So his great grandfather,
uh was a muffie and he would teach to jin Okay, Okay,
I'm gonna stop right there, all right, Okay, Well I
gotta back this up. Okay, So you said you said
his grandfather was a muffy and for for people who
might not be familiar with the terminology, and mufti is
(11:44):
basically like a religious teacher, right yeah. Yeah, And it
was his great grandfather. But that's important because his grand
father's his great grand his grandfather's didn't get the gin.
He was supposed to be passed down when his great
grandfather died, and he didn't do that because he didn't
think his sons were able to deal with this. So
(12:06):
when you say that he had as yeah, when you
say he had a school of gin that he taught, Okay,
I'm sorry, I gotta ask this question. Was he the
only one who could see that's the classroom? Because was
there anybody else? Or did you he just go to
a classroom and it was like him in an empty room?
And that's the big is are they? I think I
(12:28):
was just like in their house and there were two
male jin that would come and they would do favors
for my grand my great my dad's great grandfather. Um,
Like if he went and he couldn't find his wallet,
a new wallet would just show up. Or if they
were out of butter, butter would just show up outside
their door. So it was really strange. And my father
(12:50):
grew up with this in that there was one room
in the house no one could go into. They went
into that and I always, as a child, I thought
he meant it was a pulper guy. I didn't understand
quite that it was a gin until like later in life,
and I was like, I put it all together, and
the only person would go into that room was my father,
and so he would keep his toys in there so
(13:13):
nobody would invest with them. And that's how he became,
you know, sorry to know the gin himself. So okay,
so that room, you're saying, nobody in the else in
the family had permission to go in that room, and
his great grandfather decided, I'm not gonna pass these gin
down but for but your father had some kind of definity,
some affinity or ability or openness that allowed him to
(13:36):
connect with them. He does, but he but he denies it.
So I would say, like twenty years ago he would
have been more open, but now he's like, I don't know.
He honestly, it's like, I have no idea what what
what they are, what happens, But that was part of
my childhood and so that's what he says to me.
(13:57):
And so and he has a lot of stories of
other people in the family dealing with the gin. And
his mother used to um, who he says I remind
him of, which is a little scary because she used
to talk to the dead um and she always had
these horrible headaches, and she would be, I know, I listen,
I have the headaches, but I'm not talking to dead
(14:19):
people as far as I know. And so it's like
the whole family had these weird talents, let's say, for
lack of a better word, UM. So he for him,
this was really normal and natural, and then you know,
you come to America and it's not. So I think
he just sort of stopped believing. Oh did he actually
(14:42):
stop believing or did he just And I also know
your father, your father, is he a psychologist or a psychiatrist?
He's a he was a psychiatrist. Um. And you know
he's really like you know, you know this, he's you
gotta be an engineer, lawyer, or a doctor, as you know.
So he came to the US as an engineer actually
(15:02):
and then became and then went to medical school after
we were all born because he realized they're gonna be
expensive kids. So he became a shrink. And and sometimes
I asked him, like, you know why, like does that
impact how you're viewing things? Do you think it was
like an insanity thing or is it real? And he
(15:22):
honestly doesn't doesn't know, like he doesn't have the answer
to it, and I don't think anyone actually has the
answer to that. Well, let me ask you for such
a part of our Yeah, well, let yeah, let me
ask you this. Um. When you say he doesn't have
the answer, I guess my my question is to what question? Like,
what are what are some of the experiences that you
can share with us that he had that he he
(15:43):
cannot has not been able to answer explain. Um. I think, well,
I think a lot of it is his. Um, well,
I had an experience that he hasn't been able to explain. Um.
But the the story in our family, and I know
every family has their own stories about gin. So that's
why it's a little difficult to get like research because
(16:05):
everyone's stories are different. Um is that the they're supposed
to pass on our bloodline and to a man of course.
And so I asked myself, well, who has them then?
Like right now, who has the chin? Because let's be real,
they're gonna need anyone to be come in to me.
I want to hang out with them. I want to
I just want to see what they are and um.
(16:27):
Once so in the fashion world, you and I touched
on this in my fashion book everyone has a psychic,
a terror reader, astrologers really just really no fashion world, yes,
way totally. Like you go to dinner and they're like, oh,
this is my things healer or this is nice psychic
medium and I'm like, how nice to meet you. Great
(16:48):
thanks people, you know. So it's all it's really a
big part of the fashion world, which I don't think
people talk about enough. And there was this one shaman
in in New York, in Tribeca who all the fashion
girls were going to. And I thought, well, I want
to see what she's about, you know, like why not,
and maybe she can find this gin, not get rid
(17:10):
of it, just find it and tell me where it
might be. So I go see her and I explained
to her that, you know, this is what I'm looking for.
And she's like, okay, well, I don't know much about
your culture, but let's just see she does all these things,
like she's spinning on me and you know, rouble whatever,
all of it, you know, and it's like it's in
a small like treatment room, but you know, she like
(17:32):
there's enough space where she can be against the wall
and can't come near me, you know what I mean,
Like there's like enough it's about like ten ft. So
at one point she started doing something and I swear
to god, something started sitting on my chest. And I'm
not prone to hallucinations, so I was like, oh, this
(17:52):
is really uncomfortable and weird, like I feel like there's
something on me and I can't breathe and the woman
is across the room, so it's not her. And she
starts screaming because she said something's trying to choke her.
And I was just like, you have to say, whatever
you did, you just kissed something off, just stop, just
don't do anymore. She's like, I'm getting rid of it.
It's like, don't get rid of it. Just got goose bumps.
(18:17):
I So then, how did that end? What happened anything? Well,
the weird thing was is I used to and this
is people are gonna thinking crazy. I used to always
feel like there was something around and like I'm on
the subway later at night, but I know I'm I'm
(18:37):
fine because there's something near me and I can't explain
it more than that. But after I went to that lady,
that feeling was gone. And that was a weird sensation
because I've gotten so used to feeling like oh, I'm
gonna be fine because there's some I don't know what
it is, but there's something here. But did you always
have that feeling? Did you grow up with that feeling? Yeah? Uh,
(19:00):
I don't think I recognize that feeling until I was
an adult. But you know, are like my dad would
you know. He would make us watch The Exorcist when
we were children and buy us crazy magic books and stuff.
So we were always really I don't want to say
like not witchy because that's more of a Western concept,
(19:22):
but you know, more in tune with that part of life,
Like it was just normal. Why I'd be like, yeah,
I want this voodoo book and he's like, okay, here,
read it, you know, and I'd be like ted reading
about voodoo and it was just so normal for us. Um.
But he himself has gotten to the point where, you know,
be he he's not scared of other realms, but he thinks,
(19:46):
is if jin are real, why isn't there a Jin army?
Why aren't Why isn't anyone like raising them up to
do things? And I do not have an answer to
that question. You know, It's like it's like it's a
valid question. I don't know I've actually thought about that.
I've thought about that, um and and my my my
(20:09):
conclusion is because nobody has Solomon's ring anymore, so you know,
he was the only one who was able to really
control the Jin. Yeah. Maybe, but I also think that,
you know, people are scared because I think what happens
for people who actually, um want to summon Gin for
whatever reason or contact Jin. We all know that if
(20:29):
if we believe in Jin, if this is like a thing,
we also have to accept the fact that we can't
really control them. Maybe we could bargain with them, maybe
we could ask them to do ourselves. Yeah, and so
then maybe there's that they can do whatever they want. Yeah, well,
let me ask you, and I think some some yes,
go ahead that some members on my mom's side, I
(20:49):
think that Jin are evil and they're scared of them.
Whereas I kind of see it as well, they were
part of our family. So you know, regardless of whether
that they're they're bad, they're they're still part of our
family and they need to be recognized and you know,
honored in that way. So that's the way I see
it as opposed to like I want to summon a
genie or something you know, we'll be right back after
(21:12):
the short break. So you said, Um, you told me
earlier that your father is a Sufi, and can you, like,
can you explain at least how you understand the connection
between like that kind of system like a Sufi, which
is and for folks aren't familiar, it's kind of like
a it's like a mystical I'm some people think of
(21:33):
Sufi's mystics, but it's not really, but it's it is
a more spiritual, mystical approach to religion. Um. Yeah, so
can you explain to me what you how you understand
the connection between that and yeah, yes, and I'll be
probably honest. We were never the most religious family. Um.
And like my mother was, but you know she she's
(21:57):
as typical Bakistani as you could get. But for my dad,
it was always about a spiritual connection with God. And
and it's a personal connection. So it's not about necessarily
going to a mosue, and it's not necessarily praying five
times a day, but it was about just having that connection. Um,
and I that's how I feel about things. You know,
(22:20):
I'm spiritual. I don't know what religion is the right
religion and you know, I just think that if you
have this connection personally, that's great. Um. So we kind
of grew up not being as as Muslim as we
could have, you know, like my cousins on my mom's
side who grew up in the US, we're much more
(22:41):
religious than we were. Um, but my dad would drop
these weird stories on us. Like, Okay, I was four
and I watched the Exorcist because again, my dad's funny
that way, and my older brother was like, well, I'm
gonna it's a true story. And so you know, for
yr oldly mind is blown. You know, I'm like, oh
(23:02):
my god, my sister's gonna get possessed. I'm gonna have
to share a room in the Puzuzu holy cow, totally panicking.
And my dad says, it's okay, I know how to
do exorcisms, and he was dead serious. It was just like, oh,
that was a weird thing to say to a four
(23:23):
year old, And as a four year old, you actually
remember it, you remember that it's stuck with you. Yes,
because I was so scared. I was terrified that my
sister would become possessed because we shared a room and
I would sleepwalk, and in my sleepwalking I would be
watching her in my sleep, like literally standing by her bed,
watching her to make sure she wouldn't. It was creepy.
(23:47):
We were a creepy family. So what about your siblings?
Did your siblings have your siblings have unexplained experiences like you? Um, no,
they're they're more hesitant to dive into things. Um Like,
my brother keeps telling me, don't, don't mess with us,
don't and I's like, you know, I'm just reading about it,
(24:07):
and because I find it interesting, you know, because I
think being in the West, you are, you know, in
the US, you're surrounded by the superstitions and and and
the mysticism that we have here, which is you know,
witches and a Native Americans and druids and whatever. But
what's laughing at our stories? And so I for me,
(24:29):
it's really interesting to dive into this and and and
find these stories because it's like, oh, well this makes
sense to me and this is a part of who
I am. And it's just I don't know, it's a
weird way to feel more complete, I would say, but
my brother and sister don't. Although I think my sister
has a ghost, but you know it, Okay, Why why
do you think your sister has a ghost. I'm sorry,
(24:52):
I gotta follow that up. So my I threw, I've
seen a feason on my niece. And my nieces is
three and adorable, adorable kids, and she told my sister
that there's a man over there and she's talking to
and so my sister said, oh, well, is it a
good person? And she said no, And so we were like, well,
(25:15):
maybe that's just her being a little a little weird.
But then my sister keeps waking up in the middle
of the night hearing somebody call mom and it's not
her kids. And sometimes she's awake when it happens, because
I was like, maybe you're dreaming. Maybe it's sleep paralysis,
you know, what are the Maybe it's your neighbors, Maybe
it's a cat outside making a weird noise. We've gone
through all of the possibilities. And so she would just
(25:36):
wake up and hear someone saying Mom, or she'll be
you know, reading a book and somebody else mom, and
it's not kids at all. So it's been a little weird. Yeah,
that's actually terrifying to me. I'm terrified. So I know,
I know, I mean, I've been in that health Yeah,
(25:58):
so I said, I've been in her own some I
didn't sends anything off? But never know? Is she also
does she also live in where you are right now
out in Arizona? No, she lives in Port Worth? Okay,
do you think that maybe let me as see this Texan? Yeah?
What what? What? How do you feel about? Like? Um?
(26:20):
The difference between like the regions? I mean, are people
moren't likely to encounter like gin or have these kind
of experiences in a place like New York or a
place like where you are now, which is remote and
wild and and feels a little hoty definitely a little Um.
I think that people would more likely experience it in
(26:43):
the Arab and Indian regions, to be honest, because that's
the home of these stories. Um. Do I think I
could feel something here? Yeah? Listen, it's a Dumas beard.
There's like I don't and unfortunately I don't know if
it's just a marketing gammick for tourism or if it's real. Um.
(27:05):
But there's the vortexes here, which are energy war taxes
and so in the Red Rocks, and so you go
there and you're supposed to feel things. Um, and there's
just a high confluence of spiritual things here in theory.
Um have you have you experienced? And yeah, not the
(27:26):
vor text itself, but sometimes like in our host as
you know, it feels good, good vibes whatever. Like I'm
not scared of my house. I'm more scared of you know.
Um like that movie The Strangers when you're out in
the middle of nowhere and then there's crazy people outside
that scares me more than like ghosts. But like I'll
be washing dishes and all of a sudden, you know,
right next to me, I'll hear someone speaking Spanish and
(27:48):
then it's gone, and it's almost like it's like just
passing through. And that might have been when you follow me,
because I believe about that. I was like, this is
this is happening. It's really strange, but it wasn't scary
the same times, you know, you know what I mean.
So it's it's almost like this whole area is just
kind of funky that way. Okay, maybe it's a like
(28:09):
a little a portal, right, like where certain worlds can be.
I mean, I'm not the Yeah, and there's something I mean,
every time I try to google it, I get some
weird websites talking about Leylands, and I don't know any
of that stuff. You know, maybe I have no idea.
My I honestly cannot say one way or the other. Um,
(28:31):
do I think people here might be a little sensitive
to things? Yeah? Sure, you know, maybe they flocked here
for that reason, right, because they're seeking something. You're already
predisposed to something, right, Yeah, let me ask you this exactly?
Can you can you share with us maybe one of
the I mean, I would think as a four year old,
it's a little frightening to have your father say, oh,
(28:52):
no worries, I'm an exorcist. But but were there any
other stories your father told you or or drop little
hants or bombs are just kind of surprised you with
that really really freak you out? Yeah? There, Well, his
his mother seeing day people freaked me out. But um,
(29:13):
the men in the family were the exorcists and the
women were palm readers. And as you know, you're not
supposed to read fortunes. Um in Islam could do it,
and so yes, um, and so I remember it was
it was my stepgrandmother. Um. She would read my palm
um a lot, which always unnerked me. But then I
(29:37):
started being able to do it, and I had this
knack and I kind of call it my kids in
the Hall sketch talent, and that I can read someone's
palm and know their entire past and I can pinpoint
things that happened to them that there's no way I
should have known that, but it's it's like it's on
(29:57):
your hands. Um So, my dad was really excited when
I started, you know, learning palmistry and like getting it.
I don't. I don't do it often anymore because honestly,
it's it's really entiring and I don't really want to
know that much about people. Um So, it's actually it
actually like his emotionally draining for you or physically draining
for you. Yeah, oh yeah, I get I can do
(30:19):
like one and then you know, I got a lot down.
Um But my dad and I always wondered if it
was just him. He used to tell us this lullaby
about this woman who had ten thousand needles in her eye,
and that was, you know, our bedtime stories. And to
(30:40):
this day, I'm like, you're gonna come from Like I
ordered a book of Punjabi folk tales trying to find
this story because I and he doesn't quite remember where
it's from. He's like, oh, it's just a thing, you know,
we all know these songs. Wait, do you remember do
you remember the song? Do you remember it? Allowing now?
(31:00):
Was her name was dol football Um, which is you
know football means and on your father's side, and and
she was like pained or something, and then there were
needles in her eyes. And this was supposed to make
me go to sleep. I'm so sorry. No, I never
(31:21):
had I never had a chance to be normal. I'm
sorry you have to find this lullaby. I've never heard this.
But to be fair, my parents were like, go to sleep.
You don't get lullabies or but good night books or whatever,
just go to bed. And we didn't get any of that.
So yeah, we got those. And then on the flip side,
my mother would be like seeing a super colma, which
(31:43):
I said to you, I had, I forgot what it was.
And it's it's not a secret, it's just you know,
a verse in the Koran. But my my mother's family
called it the secret. And you have to you know,
clap three times and footmar which is which is like
kind of blowing wind out three fines to keep the
bad juju away, So she would make us do that often,
(32:07):
especially after my my dad would tell a story. Oh
my gosh, she had to ward off the evil. But
he was like bringing bringing in um. Okay, if you ever,
if you ever figure out what that lullaby was, I
have to hear it, because I just have to hear it. Um.
So let you never record him singing it. If he remembers,
Oh wow, what was on somebody else in the family.
(32:29):
You think your siblings might remember how how the tune
went or anything. No, my sister, My sister remembers it
was just really bizarre, okay, And we were like, why
would you why would you say this? Two kids? So
if you don't remember the way it went, so I'm
(32:50):
gonna let me ask you this. Did you have you
ever are yourself You seem like you're really open to
the to the not open to the idea that you believe,
you believe in gin, that they there are a gin
that are connected, that their gin that are connected to
your family, and that you are open to being like
receiving them in some way or or you're not scared
of them. So have you ever actually actively tried to
(33:11):
connect with them? Because I would not know what I'm doing.
I don't know what I'm doing. I feel like I
one I haven't found, Um, I find out a Western text,
you know, like why white writers and how to how
to conjure them? That's that's not what I want. Um.
(33:33):
I think for me, I would have want somebody from
our culture who knows how to do it. But I'm
also not the most religious person, and I feel like
jin are so connected to our religion, even but even
though some books I'm reading that they predate the religion,
that they become part of the religion. So I feel
like in order to summon them or conjure or whatever
(33:55):
you want to call it, I feel like you have
to have that religious component a little bit. Is that
only so you so you feel more protected? Like? Is
that why? I think? It's also so I don't screw
something up, you know, Like I just I just don't
think that I have that talent and to be perfectly honest, um,
(34:16):
But I do feel like there's more I don't. My
philosophy on all the spiritual stuff is that there are
things that we can't explain and maybe one day we'll
all have it figured out, you know, and and science
will be like, yes, this is weird dimensional stuff whatever. UM,
But you know, I've had experiences with ghosts and I've
had experiences with with UM. This is when it sounds crazy.
(34:38):
There was a demon in my old apartment building, and
I cannot believe. I cannot believe you're bringing up I
can't believe you're bringing up the demon in your apartment building.
This late into the conversation, but let's hear the story. Well,
first of all, I've totally I've totally tweeted this story.
So I lived, you know, on Upper East Side eighty nine.
And first the apartment was great, was like a studio,
(35:00):
but the closet was in the middle, so it was
kind of separated the bed from rest. And I sleepwalk, granted,
but I mean I sleepwalk a couple of times a
year now, it's not like a weekly thing. I was
sleepwalking every single night. Every night I would wake up
either opening my closet trying to find something that shouldn't
be there, or standing in the living room living area
(35:22):
being like, something's here, it shouldn't be here. I did
every single night for like weeks, and I made a
joke some friends, I have a closet monster. And my
dog started. Um, she started pinning her ears back at
night and staring at things on the wall that weren't there,
like there was no bug, there was nothing, and I'm
just like watching her and I got so freaked out
(35:45):
I had to put a blanket over her house. She
would and she would do this every single day. And
so now back to the whole fashion world things. This
isn't while I was still in fashion. This is one
of the those healers that I would go to dinner
with with PR people. He called me out of the
blue one day at you know, I'm at work. My
phone rings my cellphone and he says, I don't know
(36:06):
if you remember me. We went to dinner with this
PR person six months ago. My spirit guides are telling
me I have to get into your apartment. There's something there.
And I dropped my phone. I was like, all right,
I'm done. Like what So he came over and um,
he was like, I can't even explain what he did.
(36:27):
He does like energetic feng shway, and honestly, I don't
know what that is. I don't know how it applies
beyond regular peng shway. Um, but he was like, okay,
there's something this apartment, but it's coming from another person,
and it's coming, um three year bathroom, And I kind
of lost my mind because the night before he came,
(36:48):
I had this dream that if I went into the
bathroom and left the lights off, it took a picture
in the mirror with a flash on my camera on
my phone, I would see whatever I wanted to what
it was behind me. And I didn't do that in
real life. I didn't wake up and do it. I
thought no. So when he said it's coming in from
the bathroom, I was like, Okay, maybe he's right. So
he does all these weird things. Um, you know, like
(37:11):
he was using commusiology, which is so bizarre, Like he
would ask you a question and the way he your
arm would move with him would be yes or no,
you were you're incapable of lying. It's the honestly, it's
the most bizarre thing I've ever experienced. So after he
was done, and you know, everything felt a little bit
lighter in the house an apartment, he said, wait, there's
(37:31):
a message from your from your your dead mother here
And I was like all right, and he's like it's
on your bookshelf. Now my books. I'm I'm not an
organized person. They're like half hazard. They're not color coordinated
or anything, right, They're just piled up. And so he
would use my arms, like gets on this shelf, yes
or no, and so I like raising my arm yes
(37:51):
or no. He could tell by the resistance which where
it was. And he found this book and it's a
Camle book. I don't elber Kamer coming. I don't remember reading.
I know I did back in from college. And he
finds the page using my arms at this page or
it's an after this page and whatever, and he finds
the line and he looks at me and he says,
(38:11):
I'm sorry, but this is what you're supposed to say.
And the line said, yes, it would be a pleasure
to see my mother again. And I was just like,
I don't know how he did that. I just I don't.
I can't. I have no logical explanation for that, because
there's just no way. There's absolutely like, there's no way
(38:33):
he could say, oh, yeah, it's not that spine. I
know there's a line in there, you know, I guess.
But it was so randad and it wasn't even like
the plague or the strangers. It was a more obscure
one that people don't know. So it was really a
strange experience for me because I just I knew something
(38:54):
was around me that wasn't good and that my mom
sometimes popped. I would say, Hi, it's like dd um, yeah,
I've had to become more open. I was gonna ask that,
how did you know it was a demon? Only because
like you're in your because you had a sense of dread,
or because this guy told you it was Yeah, I
(39:17):
had a sense of dread. And then when he looked
at me, he said the way he's like, the way
I'm seeing this is um is uh? I think it
was dark angle arch angel Michael babbling a demon. It
was like, so that's the vision I'm seeing that. It's
because I was like, please be a ghosts, please be
a ghost. It's easy to get rid of ghosts, but
(39:37):
you know, I saw my exorcist. I know how hard
it is to get rid of the big d's, so
it's like, please don't say the D word. And then
he said it. I was like, okay, okay, but it wasn't.
It was attached to somebody else in my building, So
you know, I totally moved. I was like Nope, nope,
we're done. I don't need to stay in as an
art building. There's some weird juju here. I don't I
(39:58):
don't know what it is. I don't want to, but
I'm out, and so I moved away and it's much better. Wow,
talking that, I gotta go back and find that Twitter
threat about that. I totally missed that. I don't think
I saw that at all, But that is um, that's
that's yeah, that's not it to me. Well, it's actually
(40:19):
it was weird. It's one of those things where you're like,
am I going crazy? You know? And somebody else you know.
I'm pretty sure. I don't think I've met anybody in
my life who hasn't had some experience that they cannot explain,
something like a like a dream that was a premonition,
or just something like everybody has something, right, So I
(40:41):
think it's you have to be like an incredibly weirdly
arrogant person to think I know everything there is to
know there's nothing there that we don't know, Like sciences
discovered everything, and human beings can see and hear everything.
I don't know anybody who actually believes that, even the
biggest skeptics are like, well, I mean, look, you don't
know which happens after you die, so there's always an unknown, right,
there's always the end. Yeah yeah, yeah, Well, like I said,
(41:05):
maybe an hundred years, science will will figure out it's
a dimensional thing. I don't know. I have no idea,
but right look, science tell has told us that there
are dimensions. We know there's different dimensions. And just recently
did you see that the report that came out of
like the Pentagon where they were like navy air like
navy uh pilots. That confirms he Look, there is something
(41:28):
out there, and that's why I'm talking to you. That's
why we're doing the show. Here's something we are. The
universe is vast. We don't know what's out there like
or or what's in our closet and under our beds.
It's it's your arrogance. Yeah all right, well I should
thank you so much. I'm gonna wrap up here, but
I want um, I want folks to know how they
(41:51):
can find you online if they want to continue to
follow your your your adventures in Sedona and also your drinks. Yeah,
once you handle I'm on Twitter. Uh drama d r
R drama. That's three rs D R R R A
M I N A has been little dramatic. Um, I
(42:12):
will always I'm always happy to talk about this weird stuff,
you know, because, uh, you know, I'm not going to
judge somebody else for believing in it. And that's one
of the things that I want to include in the
second book is I, if you love crystals, that's amazing.
I personally don't. They're pretty. I don't feel anything with them.
But I'm not gonna did I lose you? Sorry, I'm
(42:35):
not gonna make fun of anybody for having a belief
like that, you know. Um. So to me, like I,
I love tarot cards because they are weirdly, my chick.
I have a terrat deck that I use and they're
um and even my friends and my sister are like this.
These are ridiculously apt and kind of really almost have
(42:57):
a sense of humor about situations. And so the more
I've used them, the more I'm like, ah, this is
getting weird, you know. So like the whole COVID, Like
I predicted somebody having COVID in our family and I didn't,
you know, realize what it was until after and my
sister mentioned it to me, and I was like, oh
my god, well, you're right. I thought it was gonna
(43:18):
be somebody else and that you know, it ended up
being this one person in our family. So there's there
are things that have come true that I'm like, No,
that's weird. You know, what are you gonna do? I
think I'm gonna that that you the veil for some
people as thinner, and the veil for you as thinner
between between what we can see and what we can't see.
And I have a feeling and I'm gonna be actually
(43:39):
really interested to see continue to talk to me about
this um offline and about like as you continue to
research a jin stuff because you know, I'm neck deep, man,
I'm I'm neck deep in that stuff, every rabbit hole
you can believe. So I think it's gonna be a
fun journey for you. I love the gym stuff. Yeah,
And I think as long as we approach it without
fear and just more of like I want to learn,
(44:01):
I think that's the right approach. Thanks for joining us
this week. You can find out more about Amina's work,
her amazing book, Fashion Victim, and everything else she's working
on by going to her website. It's Amina After That's
spelled a M I N A A k h t
A R dot work, and like she said, you can
follow her on Twitter. Her handle is at D three
(44:25):
rs d r r R and then her first name,
Amina d r r R Amina Drameda. Love it. I
hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.
Now there are as many people in the world with
jin stories as there are gin, so if you have
one you'd like to share, make sure to email it
(44:46):
to me at the Hidden Gin at gmail dot com.
That's the Hidden Gin. Th h E H I D
d N d j I n n at gmail dot com.
And until next time, remember we are not alone. The
(45:07):
Hidden Gin is a production of I Heart Radio and
Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written
and hosted by Robbiah Chaudry and produced by Miranda Hawkins
and Trevor Young, with executive producers Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams,
and Matt Frederick. Our theme song was created by Patrick Quartetz.
(45:28):
For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome to The Hidden Gin, a production of I Heart
Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minkey. Hi, and
(00:30):
welcome to this very special bonus series of The Hidden Gin.
The interviews. In these episodes, you'll hear me talk to
people from all walks of life who have had GIN experiences,
are drawn to the stories of Gin, and draw lessons
from these stories. You'll hear from artists, scholars, writers, journalists,
and Gin exorcists, and even from me as I discuss
(00:53):
how and why this series came about in a very
personal conversation with my husband. Thanks for listening and enjoy.
Would you believe it if I told you there is
a deep and abiding connection between the fashion world and
the supernatural? Well, you might not, because I didn't, not
(01:13):
until I spoke to today's guest, Amana there Now Almana
is a former fashion writer and editor and a total fashionista.
She's worked at Vogue, l Style, the New York Times,
New York Magazine, where she was a founding editor of
The Cut blog. She's written for a whole lot of publications,
including Yahoo Style, Fashionista, x O Jay, Refinery twenty nine,
(01:35):
and for big fashion brands like berged Off, Goodman and
H and M's Ten Years of Style volume. After toiling
in the fashion ranks for over fifteen years, she now
writes full time in the desert mountains, where she's detoxing
from her once glamorous life, and she's the author of
a fantastic, hilarious, dark serial killer comedy called Fashion Victim,
(01:58):
which was her first novel published a couple of years ago.
We had a lot of fun in today's conversation, and
I learned a lot about the fashion industry and Almona's
generational ties to GIN. But just a little word of warning,
because Almina is out in the rugged wilderness of Arizona,
we did have some connection issues here and there, so
the audio might sound a little bit spotty and not
(02:18):
quite as crystal clear as I would have wished, So
sorry about that. But still, we had a fantastic conversation,
had a lot of laughs, and also I got some
genuinely scary chills. So check it out yourself. My interview
with author Almanna the Hi. Almanna, thanks for joining us
this week. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk
(02:39):
to you. Well, so I've told our listeners um all
about your background that you're a former fashion writer editor,
and I've told them a little bit about your first
book now, um, but I want you to tell them
more about your first book, because, first of all, I mean,
it's your first novel and it's got some high praise, right,
I mean it was, Um it was one of the
best crime in Miss three debuts by Crime Reads. Uh
(03:04):
it's I mean, like I saw like a whole half
page of all kinds of accolades, which is amazing really
for a first book. So congratulations on that, Thank you,
thank you. It was when I left the fashion world,
I had this idea, I wouldn't it be funny to
have a serial killer set in the fashion world and
(03:26):
no one takes her seriously or believe she's the killer.
So that was kind of the idea of it. And
then I just I have to I have to ask
you were you were you thinking about se real killing
like people in the industries that will happen to like
made you write this book? Oh my god, listen, it
was fifteen years of being on a diet, like having
(03:49):
to wear high heels. Yes, yes, absolutely, that's tough. There's
definitely people I kept in mind. Yeah, yeah, we were
you really fun to write. You know, it sounds like
a really fun read. I have ordered it, but I
haven't read it yet. Um, so I can't wait to
get into it. It It sounds like the kind of thing
I'm gonna take like the next time I take a break.
But let me ask you. Were you a writer before
(04:09):
this or you just kind of went right into it? Yeah?
I mean I was. I was an editor slash writer,
so mostly I did like blog writing for like like
New York Magazine. I launched the Cut blog and I
would you know, edit and right on there. And I
would write for l and edit for them. So, you know,
like all of places I've I've worked, I was always
(04:29):
editing and writing. Um. But I never thought of myself
as a novelist. I think, like you know, you you think, oh,
though those people get M F A S and IOWA
and stuff, and I didn't do that. But then I thought, well,
why don't I just write this and see what happens
and we'll go from there. And you know kind of
what I did. Well, I mean that says and and
(04:51):
uh Fashion Victim was published one ten Yeah right, And
but you're working on as sending. I'm working on the
next book. So I'm working on a second book. So, Um,
After after New York and that in the fashion world,
I moved to near Sedona, Arizona, where my father lives,
(05:13):
and I decided I wanted to kind of capture the
insane weirdness that is hear Um. And so that's the
it's a it's a weird cookie place. I mean, stunningly
beautiful because people are a little weird. You know, I'm
not gonna lie. It's like crystals mixed with maga hats,
you know. And you're it's a bizarre place. Well, you know,
(05:34):
I follow you on Twitter and I follow your I
follow your posts on Twitter where you're documenting all the
wildlife and I'm like, oh my gosh, she's living like
in a nat Geo special. I live on the side
of a mountain and I have a well and there's
a tarantula that hangs outside the front door. He's a
(05:55):
really big guy. So he's a big guy. But they're
very friendly and like not friendly, but they don't bother humans. Um.
And it's just a complete one eat from my life
in New York, like completely, and and why did you
decide to do that? It was it was it just
to be closer to your father, or you just needed
like a cleanse. Yeah, well that's actually I've been in
(06:22):
New York for over twenty years, and I I was
birked out, you know, I just I hit that point
where I didn't want to leave my apartment and I
was like, you know this, this is not healthy. And
my mom had passed away and my dad was by himself,
and you know, he's in his eighties. So I thought,
you know, this is a really good time for me
to be out there, so we can keep an eye
on him, make sure he's taken care of. And it's
(06:43):
pretty fun, a little weird, but fun. I love following
your when you put tweet about your interactions with your dad.
But I'm trying to remember, and I can't quite remember
when I started following you or why. I know, I
was looking for South Asian writers to follow at some
point in I don't know, but I feel like I
sort of following you because you tweeted something about a
(07:04):
gin um, which trobably did you probably did right, And
so your second book as stood, I mean, tell tell
us about a little bout your second book without giving
it all away. So the second book is called Kissmith
and hopefully and I'm still finishing it and dealing with
(07:24):
the publishing world and getting it published. But um, it
follows different women who are here in Sedona, and also
one who happens to be this and she's had a
very strange upbringing. Um, not because she's this, but because
her you know, her family was just weird. And I
feel like that's an important thing. It's like, this is
about everyone's family can be weird, regardless of where they're from,
(07:47):
you know, And it's really about like finding your place
and finding your people. And at the same time, of course,
there's a serial killer because I really enjoy killing people
in books. Um, It's a really right way to get
your anger and annoyance, how you know. So it's really
just so it's following all these women and you're trying
(08:07):
to figure out who to murder. It is so you know,
all these like scam artists, fake healers are are turning
up dead in the desert, and so it's like, who's
the killer, what's happening? Um, So that's when I'm I'm
working on now. But there is thank you Well The
(08:28):
Gin is gonna be my next book, um, and that
one I'm I'm still hammering out the idea. But what
it is is it it's this woman who um has
a gin and she didn't know it, and so she
makes this wish when she's five and you know, her
birthday to be and her name is Dunia Um. She
wants to be the best Dunia in the world, and
(08:49):
Dunia means world. So she what she doesn't realize is
that she's basically made this wish. And as she gets older,
she starts getting a Google alerts for other Dunias who
are dying all over the world in random, bizarre, not
at all seemingly related ways. And that came to me
(09:10):
because I've been getting Google alerts for Almanna up theres
all over the world who are dying like car accidents,
they have been shootings, and it's I've had like three
or four and it's so surreal where you're like, oh
my god, I'm sorry, other me like wow. So she
now has to try to figure out how to how
to make this stop and how she can be the
best her and so that's the whole book. And like
(09:31):
you know, is she also everyone thinks she's going crazy,
you know, So that's that's the idea for that next
one that actually started you know what, I want to
read all the books. They all sound So that's just
a fantastic idea. And I know you told me you
were doing like you're like starting to do like some
real research on jin stuff, but you don't really you know,
(09:52):
the research is like you know, I'm doing. I did
the research obviously for my series. You're gonna do the
research for your book. But we grew up also around
on all this, and I want to talk about that.
So where's your family from, by the way, I feel
like we all have. Oh, so, my my father from Lahore.
I mean he was from India, but you know after partitioning, right,
was mostly in Lahore. And my mother was from India
(10:14):
and then she was in because a very small village. Yeah,
it used to be small. It used to be small. Yeah,
but they're basically in the northern Punjab region. Yeah. My
family is from the similar region, same place. Yeah. Yeah,
my dad's Punjabi. My mother's is a Baton and my
dad's had the family SOUPI So okay, that's where a
(10:37):
lot of the strangeness has come in into our family. Okay,
So let's start there, because I want to know, Like
in so in your family growing up, we're jin stories
a thing that like we're just kind of like like
very common. Was it the kind of thing where kids
got together and then they stop stories or no, they
(10:59):
were like time stories, like my dad would like tell
us these stories about this. Um. He would tell us
the craziest bedtime stories like this. He grew up in
a village, and you know when he grew up, and
you know, he was born in the thirties, it was
a little different. Didn't necessarily grow up with his parents.
He grew up with other relatives. You know, it's just
kind of loosey goosey, I guess back then. And he
(11:22):
had there was a one room. So his great grandfather,
uh was a muffie and he would teach to jin Okay, Okay,
I'm gonna stop right there, all right, Okay, Well I
gotta back this up. Okay, So you said you said
his grandfather was a muffy and for for people who
might not be familiar with the terminology, and mufti is
(11:44):
basically like a religious teacher, right yeah. Yeah, And it
was his great grandfather. But that's important because his grand
father's his great grand his grandfather's didn't get the gin.
He was supposed to be passed down when his great
grandfather died, and he didn't do that because he didn't
think his sons were able to deal with this. So
(12:06):
when you say that he had as yeah, when you
say he had a school of gin that he taught, Okay,
I'm sorry, I gotta ask this question. Was he the
only one who could see that's the classroom? Because was
there anybody else? Or did you he just go to
a classroom and it was like him in an empty room?
And that's the big is are they? I think I
(12:28):
was just like in their house and there were two
male jin that would come and they would do favors
for my grand my great my dad's great grandfather. Um,
Like if he went and he couldn't find his wallet,
a new wallet would just show up. Or if they
were out of butter, butter would just show up outside
their door. So it was really strange. And my father
(12:50):
grew up with this in that there was one room
in the house no one could go into. They went
into that and I always, as a child, I thought
he meant it was a pulper guy. I didn't understand
quite that it was a gin until like later in life,
and I was like, I put it all together, and
the only person would go into that room was my father,
and so he would keep his toys in there so
(13:13):
nobody would invest with them. And that's how he became,
you know, sorry to know the gin himself. So okay,
so that room, you're saying, nobody in the else in
the family had permission to go in that room, and
his great grandfather decided, I'm not gonna pass these gin
down but for but your father had some kind of definity,
some affinity or ability or openness that allowed him to
(13:36):
connect with them. He does, but he but he denies it.
So I would say, like twenty years ago he would
have been more open, but now he's like, I don't know.
He honestly, it's like, I have no idea what what
what they are, what happens, But that was part of
my childhood and so that's what he says to me.
(13:57):
And so and he has a lot of stories of
other people in the family dealing with the gin. And
his mother used to um, who he says I remind
him of, which is a little scary because she used
to talk to the dead um and she always had
these horrible headaches, and she would be, I know, I listen,
I have the headaches, but I'm not talking to dead
(14:19):
people as far as I know. And so it's like
the whole family had these weird talents, let's say, for
lack of a better word, UM. So he for him,
this was really normal and natural, and then you know,
you come to America and it's not. So I think
he just sort of stopped believing. Oh did he actually
(14:42):
stop believing or did he just And I also know
your father, your father, is he a psychologist or a psychiatrist?
He's a he was a psychiatrist. Um. And you know
he's really like you know, you know this, he's you
gotta be an engineer, lawyer, or a doctor, as you know.
So he came to the US as an engineer actually
(15:02):
and then became and then went to medical school after
we were all born because he realized they're gonna be
expensive kids. So he became a shrink. And and sometimes
I asked him, like, you know why, like does that
impact how you're viewing things? Do you think it was
like an insanity thing or is it real? And he
(15:22):
honestly doesn't doesn't know, like he doesn't have the answer
to it, and I don't think anyone actually has the
answer to that. Well, let me ask you for such
a part of our Yeah, well, let yeah, let me
ask you this. Um. When you say he doesn't have
the answer, I guess my my question is to what question? Like,
what are what are some of the experiences that you
can share with us that he had that he he
(15:43):
cannot has not been able to answer explain. Um. I think, well,
I think a lot of it is his. Um, well,
I had an experience that he hasn't been able to explain. Um.
But the the story in our family, and I know
every family has their own stories about gin. So that's
why it's a little difficult to get like research because
(16:05):
everyone's stories are different. Um is that the they're supposed
to pass on our bloodline and to a man of course.
And so I asked myself, well, who has them then?
Like right now, who has the chin? Because let's be real,
they're gonna need anyone to be come in to me.
I want to hang out with them. I want to
I just want to see what they are and um.
(16:27):
Once so in the fashion world, you and I touched
on this in my fashion book everyone has a psychic,
a terror reader, astrologers really just really no fashion world, yes,
way totally. Like you go to dinner and they're like, oh,
this is my things healer or this is nice psychic
medium and I'm like, how nice to meet you. Great
(16:48):
thanks people, you know. So it's all it's really a
big part of the fashion world, which I don't think
people talk about enough. And there was this one shaman
in in New York, in Tribeca who all the fashion
girls were going to. And I thought, well, I want
to see what she's about, you know, like why not,
and maybe she can find this gin, not get rid
(17:10):
of it, just find it and tell me where it
might be. So I go see her and I explained
to her that, you know, this is what I'm looking for.
And she's like, okay, well, I don't know much about
your culture, but let's just see she does all these things,
like she's spinning on me and you know, rouble whatever,
all of it, you know, and it's like it's in
a small like treatment room, but you know, she like
(17:32):
there's enough space where she can be against the wall
and can't come near me, you know what I mean,
Like there's like enough it's about like ten ft. So
at one point she started doing something and I swear
to god, something started sitting on my chest. And I'm
not prone to hallucinations, so I was like, oh, this
(17:52):
is really uncomfortable and weird, like I feel like there's
something on me and I can't breathe and the woman
is across the room, so it's not her. And she
starts screaming because she said something's trying to choke her.
And I was just like, you have to say, whatever
you did, you just kissed something off, just stop, just
don't do anymore. She's like, I'm getting rid of it.
It's like, don't get rid of it. Just got goose bumps.
(18:17):
I So then, how did that end? What happened anything? Well,
the weird thing was is I used to and this
is people are gonna thinking crazy. I used to always
feel like there was something around and like I'm on
the subway later at night, but I know I'm I'm
(18:37):
fine because there's something near me and I can't explain
it more than that. But after I went to that lady,
that feeling was gone. And that was a weird sensation
because I've gotten so used to feeling like oh, I'm
gonna be fine because there's some I don't know what
it is, but there's something here. But did you always
have that feeling? Did you grow up with that feeling? Yeah? Uh,
(19:00):
I don't think I recognize that feeling until I was
an adult. But you know, are like my dad would
you know. He would make us watch The Exorcist when
we were children and buy us crazy magic books and stuff.
So we were always really I don't want to say
like not witchy because that's more of a Western concept,
(19:22):
but you know, more in tune with that part of life,
Like it was just normal. Why I'd be like, yeah,
I want this voodoo book and he's like, okay, here,
read it, you know, and I'd be like ted reading
about voodoo and it was just so normal for us. Um.
But he himself has gotten to the point where, you know,
be he he's not scared of other realms, but he thinks,
(19:46):
is if jin are real, why isn't there a Jin army?
Why aren't Why isn't anyone like raising them up to
do things? And I do not have an answer to
that question. You know, It's like it's like it's a
valid question. I don't know I've actually thought about that.
I've thought about that, um and and my my my
(20:09):
conclusion is because nobody has Solomon's ring anymore, so you know,
he was the only one who was able to really
control the Jin. Yeah. Maybe, but I also think that,
you know, people are scared because I think what happens
for people who actually, um want to summon Gin for
whatever reason or contact Jin. We all know that if
(20:29):
if we believe in Jin, if this is like a thing,
we also have to accept the fact that we can't
really control them. Maybe we could bargain with them, maybe
we could ask them to do ourselves. Yeah, and so
then maybe there's that they can do whatever they want. Yeah, well,
let me ask you, and I think some some yes,
go ahead that some members on my mom's side, I
(20:49):
think that Jin are evil and they're scared of them.
Whereas I kind of see it as well, they were
part of our family. So you know, regardless of whether
that they're they're bad, they're they're still part of our
family and they need to be recognized and you know,
honored in that way. So that's the way I see
it as opposed to like I want to summon a
genie or something you know, we'll be right back after
(21:12):
the short break. So you said, Um, you told me
earlier that your father is a Sufi, and can you, like,
can you explain at least how you understand the connection
between like that kind of system like a Sufi, which
is and for folks aren't familiar, it's kind of like
a it's like a mystical I'm some people think of
(21:33):
Sufi's mystics, but it's not really, but it's it is
a more spiritual, mystical approach to religion. Um. Yeah, so
can you explain to me what you how you understand
the connection between that and yeah, yes, and I'll be
probably honest. We were never the most religious family. Um.
And like my mother was, but you know she she's
(21:57):
as typical Bakistani as you could get. But for my dad,
it was always about a spiritual connection with God. And
and it's a personal connection. So it's not about necessarily
going to a mosue, and it's not necessarily praying five
times a day, but it was about just having that connection. Um,
and I that's how I feel about things. You know,
(22:20):
I'm spiritual. I don't know what religion is the right
religion and you know, I just think that if you
have this connection personally, that's great. Um. So we kind
of grew up not being as as Muslim as we
could have, you know, like my cousins on my mom's
side who grew up in the US, we're much more
(22:41):
religious than we were. Um, but my dad would drop
these weird stories on us. Like, Okay, I was four
and I watched the Exorcist because again, my dad's funny
that way, and my older brother was like, well, I'm
gonna it's a true story. And so you know, for
yr oldly mind is blown. You know, I'm like, oh
(23:02):
my god, my sister's gonna get possessed. I'm gonna have
to share a room in the Puzuzu holy cow, totally panicking.
And my dad says, it's okay, I know how to
do exorcisms, and he was dead serious. It was just like, oh,
that was a weird thing to say to a four
(23:23):
year old, And as a four year old, you actually
remember it, you remember that it's stuck with you. Yes,
because I was so scared. I was terrified that my
sister would become possessed because we shared a room and
I would sleepwalk, and in my sleepwalking I would be
watching her in my sleep, like literally standing by her bed,
watching her to make sure she wouldn't. It was creepy.
(23:47):
We were a creepy family. So what about your siblings?
Did your siblings have your siblings have unexplained experiences like you? Um, no,
they're they're more hesitant to dive into things. Um Like,
my brother keeps telling me, don't, don't mess with us,
don't and I's like, you know, I'm just reading about it,
(24:07):
and because I find it interesting, you know, because I
think being in the West, you are, you know, in
the US, you're surrounded by the superstitions and and and
the mysticism that we have here, which is you know,
witches and a Native Americans and druids and whatever. But
what's laughing at our stories? And so I for me,
(24:29):
it's really interesting to dive into this and and and
find these stories because it's like, oh, well this makes
sense to me and this is a part of who
I am. And it's just I don't know, it's a
weird way to feel more complete, I would say, but
my brother and sister don't. Although I think my sister
has a ghost, but you know it, Okay, Why why
do you think your sister has a ghost. I'm sorry,
(24:52):
I gotta follow that up. So my I threw, I've
seen a feason on my niece. And my nieces is
three and adorable, adorable kids, and she told my sister
that there's a man over there and she's talking to
and so my sister said, oh, well, is it a
good person? And she said no, And so we were like, well,
(25:15):
maybe that's just her being a little a little weird.
But then my sister keeps waking up in the middle
of the night hearing somebody call mom and it's not
her kids. And sometimes she's awake when it happens, because
I was like, maybe you're dreaming. Maybe it's sleep paralysis,
you know, what are the Maybe it's your neighbors, Maybe
it's a cat outside making a weird noise. We've gone
through all of the possibilities. And so she would just
(25:36):
wake up and hear someone saying Mom, or she'll be
you know, reading a book and somebody else mom, and
it's not kids at all. So it's been a little weird. Yeah,
that's actually terrifying to me. I'm terrified. So I know,
I know, I mean, I've been in that health Yeah,
(25:58):
so I said, I've been in her own some I
didn't sends anything off? But never know? Is she also
does she also live in where you are right now
out in Arizona? No, she lives in Port Worth? Okay,
do you think that maybe let me as see this Texan? Yeah?
What what? What? How do you feel about? Like? Um?
(26:20):
The difference between like the regions? I mean, are people
moren't likely to encounter like gin or have these kind
of experiences in a place like New York or a
place like where you are now, which is remote and
wild and and feels a little hoty definitely a little Um.
I think that people would more likely experience it in
(26:43):
the Arab and Indian regions, to be honest, because that's
the home of these stories. Um. Do I think I
could feel something here? Yeah? Listen, it's a Dumas beard.
There's like I don't and unfortunately I don't know if
it's just a marketing gammick for tourism or if it's real. Um.
(27:05):
But there's the vortexes here, which are energy war taxes
and so in the Red Rocks, and so you go
there and you're supposed to feel things. Um, and there's
just a high confluence of spiritual things here in theory.
Um have you have you experienced? And yeah, not the
(27:26):
vor text itself, but sometimes like in our host as
you know, it feels good, good vibes whatever. Like I'm
not scared of my house. I'm more scared of you know.
Um like that movie The Strangers when you're out in
the middle of nowhere and then there's crazy people outside
that scares me more than like ghosts. But like I'll
be washing dishes and all of a sudden, you know,
right next to me, I'll hear someone speaking Spanish and
(27:48):
then it's gone, and it's almost like it's like just
passing through. And that might have been when you follow me,
because I believe about that. I was like, this is
this is happening. It's really strange, but it wasn't scary
the same times, you know, you know what I mean.
So it's it's almost like this whole area is just
kind of funky that way. Okay, maybe it's a like
(28:09):
a little a portal, right, like where certain worlds can be.
I mean, I'm not the Yeah, and there's something I mean,
every time I try to google it, I get some
weird websites talking about Leylands, and I don't know any
of that stuff. You know, maybe I have no idea.
My I honestly cannot say one way or the other. Um,
(28:31):
do I think people here might be a little sensitive
to things? Yeah? Sure, you know, maybe they flocked here
for that reason, right, because they're seeking something. You're already
predisposed to something, right, Yeah, let me ask you this exactly?
Can you can you share with us maybe one of
the I mean, I would think as a four year old,
it's a little frightening to have your father say, oh,
(28:52):
no worries, I'm an exorcist. But but were there any
other stories your father told you or or drop little
hants or bombs are just kind of surprised you with
that really really freak you out? Yeah? There, Well, his
his mother seeing day people freaked me out. But um,
(29:13):
the men in the family were the exorcists and the
women were palm readers. And as you know, you're not
supposed to read fortunes. Um in Islam could do it,
and so yes, um, and so I remember it was
it was my stepgrandmother. Um. She would read my palm
um a lot, which always unnerked me. But then I
(29:37):
started being able to do it, and I had this
knack and I kind of call it my kids in
the Hall sketch talent, and that I can read someone's
palm and know their entire past and I can pinpoint
things that happened to them that there's no way I
should have known that, but it's it's like it's on
(29:57):
your hands. Um So, my dad was really excited when
I started, you know, learning palmistry and like getting it.
I don't. I don't do it often anymore because honestly,
it's it's really entiring and I don't really want to
know that much about people. Um So, it's actually it
actually like his emotionally draining for you or physically draining
for you. Yeah, oh yeah, I get I can do
(30:19):
like one and then you know, I got a lot down.
Um But my dad and I always wondered if it
was just him. He used to tell us this lullaby
about this woman who had ten thousand needles in her eye,
and that was, you know, our bedtime stories. And to
(30:40):
this day, I'm like, you're gonna come from Like I
ordered a book of Punjabi folk tales trying to find
this story because I and he doesn't quite remember where
it's from. He's like, oh, it's just a thing, you know,
we all know these songs. Wait, do you remember do
you remember the song? Do you remember it? Allowing now?
(31:00):
Was her name was dol football Um, which is you
know football means and on your father's side, and and
she was like pained or something, and then there were
needles in her eyes. And this was supposed to make
me go to sleep. I'm so sorry. No, I never
(31:21):
had I never had a chance to be normal. I'm
sorry you have to find this lullaby. I've never heard this.
But to be fair, my parents were like, go to sleep.
You don't get lullabies or but good night books or whatever,
just go to bed. And we didn't get any of that.
So yeah, we got those. And then on the flip side,
my mother would be like seeing a super colma, which
(31:43):
I said to you, I had, I forgot what it was.
And it's it's not a secret, it's just you know,
a verse in the Koran. But my my mother's family
called it the secret. And you have to you know,
clap three times and footmar which is which is like
kind of blowing wind out three fines to keep the
bad juju away, So she would make us do that often,
(32:07):
especially after my my dad would tell a story. Oh
my gosh, she had to ward off the evil. But
he was like bringing bringing in um. Okay, if you ever,
if you ever figure out what that lullaby was, I
have to hear it, because I just have to hear it. Um.
So let you never record him singing it. If he remembers,
Oh wow, what was on somebody else in the family.
(32:29):
You think your siblings might remember how how the tune
went or anything. No, my sister, My sister remembers it
was just really bizarre, okay, And we were like, why
would you why would you say this? Two kids? So
if you don't remember the way it went, so I'm
(32:50):
gonna let me ask you this. Did you have you
ever are yourself You seem like you're really open to
the to the not open to the idea that you believe,
you believe in gin, that they there are a gin
that are connected, that their gin that are connected to
your family, and that you are open to being like
receiving them in some way or or you're not scared
of them. So have you ever actually actively tried to
(33:11):
connect with them? Because I would not know what I'm doing.
I don't know what I'm doing. I feel like I
one I haven't found, Um, I find out a Western text,
you know, like why white writers and how to how
to conjure them? That's that's not what I want. Um.
(33:33):
I think for me, I would have want somebody from
our culture who knows how to do it. But I'm
also not the most religious person, and I feel like
jin are so connected to our religion, even but even
though some books I'm reading that they predate the religion,
that they become part of the religion. So I feel
like in order to summon them or conjure or whatever
(33:55):
you want to call it, I feel like you have
to have that religious component a little bit. Is that
only so you so you feel more protected? Like? Is
that why? I think? It's also so I don't screw
something up, you know, Like I just I just don't
think that I have that talent and to be perfectly honest, um,
(34:16):
But I do feel like there's more I don't. My
philosophy on all the spiritual stuff is that there are
things that we can't explain and maybe one day we'll
all have it figured out, you know, and and science
will be like, yes, this is weird dimensional stuff whatever. UM,
But you know, I've had experiences with ghosts and I've
had experiences with with UM. This is when it sounds crazy.
(34:38):
There was a demon in my old apartment building, and
I cannot believe. I cannot believe you're bringing up I
can't believe you're bringing up the demon in your apartment building.
This late into the conversation, but let's hear the story. Well,
first of all, I've totally I've totally tweeted this story.
So I lived, you know, on Upper East Side eighty nine.
And first the apartment was great, was like a studio,
(35:00):
but the closet was in the middle, so it was
kind of separated the bed from rest. And I sleepwalk, granted,
but I mean I sleepwalk a couple of times a
year now, it's not like a weekly thing. I was
sleepwalking every single night. Every night I would wake up
either opening my closet trying to find something that shouldn't
be there, or standing in the living room living area
(35:22):
being like, something's here, it shouldn't be here. I did
every single night for like weeks, and I made a
joke some friends, I have a closet monster. And my
dog started. Um, she started pinning her ears back at
night and staring at things on the wall that weren't there,
like there was no bug, there was nothing, and I'm
just like watching her and I got so freaked out
(35:45):
I had to put a blanket over her house. She
would and she would do this every single day. And
so now back to the whole fashion world things. This
isn't while I was still in fashion. This is one
of the those healers that I would go to dinner
with with PR people. He called me out of the
blue one day at you know, I'm at work. My
phone rings my cellphone and he says, I don't know
(36:06):
if you remember me. We went to dinner with this
PR person six months ago. My spirit guides are telling
me I have to get into your apartment. There's something there.
And I dropped my phone. I was like, all right,
I'm done. Like what So he came over and um,
he was like, I can't even explain what he did.
(36:27):
He does like energetic feng shway, and honestly, I don't
know what that is. I don't know how it applies
beyond regular peng shway. Um, but he was like, okay,
there's something this apartment, but it's coming from another person,
and it's coming, um three year bathroom, And I kind
of lost my mind because the night before he came,
(36:48):
I had this dream that if I went into the
bathroom and left the lights off, it took a picture
in the mirror with a flash on my camera on
my phone, I would see whatever I wanted to what
it was behind me. And I didn't do that in
real life. I didn't wake up and do it. I
thought no. So when he said it's coming in from
the bathroom, I was like, Okay, maybe he's right. So
he does all these weird things. Um, you know, like
(37:11):
he was using commusiology, which is so bizarre, Like he
would ask you a question and the way he your
arm would move with him would be yes or no,
you were you're incapable of lying. It's the honestly, it's
the most bizarre thing I've ever experienced. So after he
was done, and you know, everything felt a little bit
lighter in the house an apartment, he said, wait, there's
(37:31):
a message from your from your your dead mother here
And I was like all right, and he's like it's
on your bookshelf. Now my books. I'm I'm not an
organized person. They're like half hazard. They're not color coordinated
or anything, right, They're just piled up. And so he
would use my arms, like gets on this shelf, yes
or no, and so I like raising my arm yes
(37:51):
or no. He could tell by the resistance which where
it was. And he found this book and it's a
Camle book. I don't elber Kamer coming. I don't remember reading.
I know I did back in from college. And he
finds the page using my arms at this page or
it's an after this page and whatever, and he finds
the line and he looks at me and he says,
(38:11):
I'm sorry, but this is what you're supposed to say.
And the line said, yes, it would be a pleasure
to see my mother again. And I was just like,
I don't know how he did that. I just I don't.
I can't. I have no logical explanation for that, because
there's just no way. There's absolutely like, there's no way
(38:33):
he could say, oh, yeah, it's not that spine. I
know there's a line in there, you know, I guess.
But it was so randad and it wasn't even like
the plague or the strangers. It was a more obscure
one that people don't know. So it was really a
strange experience for me because I just I knew something
(38:54):
was around me that wasn't good and that my mom
sometimes popped. I would say, Hi, it's like dd um, yeah,
I've had to become more open. I was gonna ask that,
how did you know it was a demon? Only because
like you're in your because you had a sense of dread,
or because this guy told you it was Yeah, I
(39:17):
had a sense of dread. And then when he looked
at me, he said the way he's like, the way
I'm seeing this is um is uh? I think it
was dark angle arch angel Michael babbling a demon. It
was like, so that's the vision I'm seeing that. It's
because I was like, please be a ghosts, please be
a ghost. It's easy to get rid of ghosts, but
(39:37):
you know, I saw my exorcist. I know how hard
it is to get rid of the big d's, so
it's like, please don't say the D word. And then
he said it. I was like, okay, okay, but it wasn't.
It was attached to somebody else in my building, So
you know, I totally moved. I was like Nope, nope,
we're done. I don't need to stay in as an
art building. There's some weird juju here. I don't I
(39:58):
don't know what it is. I don't want to, but
I'm out, and so I moved away and it's much better. Wow,
talking that, I gotta go back and find that Twitter
threat about that. I totally missed that. I don't think
I saw that at all, But that is um, that's
that's yeah, that's not it to me. Well, it's actually
(40:19):
it was weird. It's one of those things where you're like,
am I going crazy? You know? And somebody else you know.
I'm pretty sure. I don't think I've met anybody in
my life who hasn't had some experience that they cannot explain,
something like a like a dream that was a premonition,
or just something like everybody has something, right, So I
(40:41):
think it's you have to be like an incredibly weirdly
arrogant person to think I know everything there is to
know there's nothing there that we don't know, Like sciences
discovered everything, and human beings can see and hear everything.
I don't know anybody who actually believes that, even the
biggest skeptics are like, well, I mean, look, you don't
know which happens after you die, so there's always an unknown, right,
there's always the end. Yeah yeah, yeah, Well, like I said,
(41:05):
maybe an hundred years, science will will figure out it's
a dimensional thing. I don't know. I have no idea,
but right look, science tell has told us that there
are dimensions. We know there's different dimensions. And just recently
did you see that the report that came out of
like the Pentagon where they were like navy air like
navy uh pilots. That confirms he Look, there is something
(41:28):
out there, and that's why I'm talking to you. That's
why we're doing the show. Here's something we are. The
universe is vast. We don't know what's out there like
or or what's in our closet and under our beds.
It's it's your arrogance. Yeah all right, well I should
thank you so much. I'm gonna wrap up here, but
I want um, I want folks to know how they
(41:51):
can find you online if they want to continue to
follow your your your adventures in Sedona and also your drinks. Yeah,
once you handle I'm on Twitter. Uh drama d r
R drama. That's three rs D R R R A
M I N A has been little dramatic. Um, I
(42:12):
will always I'm always happy to talk about this weird stuff,
you know, because, uh, you know, I'm not going to
judge somebody else for believing in it. And that's one
of the things that I want to include in the
second book is I, if you love crystals, that's amazing.
I personally don't. They're pretty. I don't feel anything with them.
But I'm not gonna did I lose you? Sorry, I'm
(42:35):
not gonna make fun of anybody for having a belief
like that, you know. Um. So to me, like I,
I love tarot cards because they are weirdly, my chick.
I have a terrat deck that I use and they're
um and even my friends and my sister are like this.
These are ridiculously apt and kind of really almost have
(42:57):
a sense of humor about situations. And so the more
I've used them, the more I'm like, ah, this is
getting weird, you know. So like the whole COVID, Like
I predicted somebody having COVID in our family and I didn't,
you know, realize what it was until after and my
sister mentioned it to me, and I was like, oh
my god, well, you're right. I thought it was gonna
(43:18):
be somebody else and that you know, it ended up
being this one person in our family. So there's there
are things that have come true that I'm like, No,
that's weird. You know, what are you gonna do? I
think I'm gonna that that you the veil for some
people as thinner, and the veil for you as thinner
between between what we can see and what we can't see.
And I have a feeling and I'm gonna be actually
(43:39):
really interested to see continue to talk to me about
this um offline and about like as you continue to
research a jin stuff because you know, I'm neck deep, man,
I'm I'm neck deep in that stuff, every rabbit hole
you can believe. So I think it's gonna be a
fun journey for you. I love the gym stuff. Yeah,
And I think as long as we approach it without
fear and just more of like I want to learn,
(44:01):
I think that's the right approach. Thanks for joining us
this week. You can find out more about Amina's work,
her amazing book, Fashion Victim, and everything else she's working
on by going to her website. It's Amina After That's
spelled a M I N A A k h t
A R dot work, and like she said, you can
follow her on Twitter. Her handle is at D three
(44:25):
rs d r r R and then her first name,
Amina d r r R Amina Drameda. Love it. I
hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.
Now there are as many people in the world with
jin stories as there are gin, so if you have
one you'd like to share, make sure to email it
(44:46):
to me at the Hidden Gin at gmail dot com.
That's the Hidden Gin. Th h E H I D
d N d j I n n at gmail dot com.
And until next time, remember we are not alone. The
(45:07):
Hidden Gin is a production of I Heart Radio and
Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written
and hosted by Robbiah Chaudry and produced by Miranda Hawkins
and Trevor Young, with executive producers Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams,
and Matt Frederick. Our theme song was created by Patrick Quartetz.
(45:28):
For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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