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September 29, 2020 • 32 mins

They say Hell hath no fury as a scorned woman, but wait until you hear about the very first scorned female djinniya and her eternal revenge.

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
M Welcome to the Hidden Gin a production of I
Heart Radio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Minkey. A

(00:30):
brief morning before we get into this episode. This episode
includes language and refers to sexuality and sexual practices that
may be triggering or too mature for young audiences. I'll
be honest, I often get a bit uneasy with stories
about female gin and other kinds of malevolent female entities,

(00:50):
because there's no escaping the reality that historically women have
often warned the blame for things that go wrong in
a family or a community. If a couple can't have children,
it's because the wife is barren. If a husband goes astray,
it's because a wife couldn't keep them happy. Even if
a region is experiencing drought, somehow women managed to get blamed.

(01:12):
And if you don't believe me, just a few years ago,
a Texas assemblywoman tweeted the Texas was in a long
period of drought until the governor signed an anti abortion law. Yes,
that was only one person, but she was just reflecting
the kinds of sentiments that have existed for centuries. And
that's why when I read about the kinds of terrible

(01:32):
things that female monsters are said to do. I can't
help but wonder maybe these stories just to mirror deeply
misogynistic attitudes about women in general. But then there's also
this possibility that maybe stories of powerful, supernatural female entities
are actually projections of the power and ability. Women wish

(01:52):
they had the power to control their lives and bodies,
the power to exact revenge on those who hurt them,
the power to strike error into societies that really help,
no fear of them or respect for them. Maybe these
stories are a warning of what could be unleashed if
and when there's finally a reckoning. My name is Robbia Chaudhry,

(02:14):
and I'll be your guide into the world of the
Hidden Gin. Welcome. You could say that vampires have come
a long way today. There are dozens of books, films,

(02:36):
and TV shows that have sort of endeared them to us.
Vampire comedies like What We Do in the Shadows are
a big hit, and thanks to the Twilight series, an
entire generation of young people are open to vampire love affairs.
And I swear there's an entire section of vampire why
a lit in every bookstore I've ever been to. Vampires

(02:57):
are kind of cool, right, now they didn't, of course,
start out that way. The myth of creatures that crave
and survive on blood goes back thousands of years, is
found in nearly every culture, but seems to hail not
from Europe but from further east. The earliest evidence we
have of any belief in blood suckers are shards of

(03:18):
Persian pottery dating back about four thousand years depicting demons
trying to drink the blood of men. We find from
the same region the tales of La must Do, a
word that means quote, she who erases in the language
spoken in ancient Assyria and Babylonia, La must Do was
a demonus, a monster that killed babies in the womb,

(03:40):
and that attacked healthy young men, sucking their blood and
rendering them infertile. Her image was as terrifying as her reputation.
She had the head of a woman, the body of
a beast, serpents in each hand, and suckled a dog
and a pig at her bosom. And there's not that
much distance between the legends about La must Do and
a horrifying she demon found in Jewish lore. Now you

(04:04):
may be wondering what any of these demonists has to
do with gin. But remember, the Gin are older than
human history, and they take on any in every form.
What one culture now calls a gin has been called
by many other names and other cultures, and in Jewish tradition,
we have evidence of belief in a creature that lines
up neatly with the Gin, the shed Them, which North

(04:27):
African Jews also referred to with euphemisms such as tata
the yellna our counterparts underground, or Jarndellna, our neighbors. According
to the Talmud, the shed them have attributes of both
angels and humans. In three ways, they are as angels.

(04:47):
They have wings like angels, fly from one end of
the world to the other like angels, and they know
what will be in the future like angels. And in
three ways they are as humans. They eat and drink
like humans, they multiply like humans, and they die like humans.
He won't be surprised to learn that the shed Them
live in dank, dirty and desolate places, with a particular

(05:10):
fondness for bathrooms, and that they can shape shift, changing
their appearance in any way they want, with one exception
they can't change their feet. Now these descriptions should ring
a Bell if you've heard our previous episodes, including the
first one in which we talked about Ashmodai, the mighty
demon Jin that King Solomon brought under his control. According

(05:32):
to the Talmud, Ashmodai was a shed Dim, and that
takes us back to one of many Jin origin stories.
In this story, the shed them were created from the
union of a demonus and the first man, Adam, and
that demonus is Lilith. Lilith has a rich Semitic history.

(05:58):
You might even call her the original vamp hire of
Jewish lore, and she is well documented in Rabbinic literature
as having been the intended ride of Adam. Some stories
say that Adam rejected her because she refused to be
a subservient sexual partner. Lilith believed that she and Adam
were created equal, and for that he rejected her. Full

(06:20):
of despair and indignation, Lilith abandoned Adam in heaven and
dove to Earth, fleeing deep into the ocean in a
complete rage. She didn't stay in the ocean, though. Three
angels were sent after her to coax her back, and
they found her by the Red Sea, where she was
a mating with other fallen Gin and bearing baby demons

(06:40):
and Isaiah. The Bible speaks of a dark wilderness, and
there wildcats shall meet with hyenas, goat demons shall call
to each other. There, too, Lilith shall repose and find
a place to rest. Lilith was not about to return
with the angels, though she told them, I was created

(07:02):
only to cause sickness to infants, and I am the
sworn enemy of pregnant women. The angels responded, we won't
let you go until you accept upon yourself that each day,
one hundred of your children will die. Lilith accepted the condition,
and for that reason, one hundred demons die every day,
but Lilith, who is immortal, can easily replace them, and

(07:26):
is thus considered by some to be the mother of
all gin. Lilith is also known to have a sexual
appetite that is never satisfied, which certainly helps with the
baby demon making pursuits. She took on many demonic lovers,
and some say she made it with Satan himself, But
along with her demon lovers, she sometimes chooses mortal lovers,

(07:48):
and yet another legend says she came across a mortal
wandering in the wilderness. Some one who had just murdered
his brother. It was Kane, the son of Adam, who
killed his brother Abel. Lilith showed Kine the life power
of blood, and they became lovers together, birthing hundreds of
dark souls, which is pretty sinister but ingenious revenge by

(08:12):
Lilith against Adam, the man who rejected her. Other tales
say that Lilith became the wife of the demon king Ashmadai.
Lilith was you see among the legions of Gin that
King Solomon took command over with his magical ring, which
he used to force the Gin to present themselves before him.
She appeared before him as a female figure with no limbs,

(08:35):
just a head and a torso, her hair ratty and ragged.
He commanded her to tell him who she was and
what she did, and she responded, By night, I sleep
not but go my rounds over all the world and
visit women in childbirth and diving. The hour I take
my stand, and if I am lucky, I strangle the child.

(08:57):
But if not, I retire to another place, for I
cannot a single night retire unsuccessful. And now hither Now
thither I roam, and to western parts I go my rounds.
But as it is, though thou hast sealed me round
with the ring of God, thou hast done nothing. I
am not standing before thee, and thou wilt not be

(09:19):
able to command me, for I have no work other
than the destruction of children, and making of their ears
to be deaf, and the working of evil to their eyes,
and the binding of their mouths with a bond, and
the ruin of their minds, and the painting of their bodies.
So while King Solomon was able to bind her for

(09:39):
a time, she eventually, like all the king's other enslaved jins,
found her freedom when he died, and she went right
back to hunting children. You might say Lilith really holds
a grudge like the she demon La must do. Lilith
is a sworn baby killer. Lilith doesn't even wait for
a baby's birth to begin attack King it. Her attempts

(10:01):
to harm human children begin when the child is in
the mother's womb, causing miscarriages and stillbirths, and if they
survive that, she pursues their debts for weeks after they're born,
sometimes causing them to fall sick and die, and other
times strangling them in a jealous rage, and in one
final act of revenge against mankind, Lilith also visits unwitting

(10:24):
men at night as they sleep, sexually violating them to
steal their seed and bear more demon children. You may
have heard of this creature the succubus. Turns out, that's
just Lilith. Unfortunately we can't escape Lilith. While women have
worn amulets and tied talisman and prayers around their babies

(10:45):
for protection against this Gin, these are flimsy guardians against
this vengeful spirit, and so this dance of revenge will
go on for eternity, because unlike other Gin, Lilith is immortal.

(11:15):
Lilith doesn't stand alone though. In the Jewish cosmology of
female demon gin, she's accompanied by three sisters, Nama, Agrith,
and Mahalath, who is said to be the queen of
the demons and married to the demon king Ashmadi. There is,
to be honest, a confusing intersection of all these female
and male Gin, a lot of hooking up between them. Imagine,

(11:38):
if you will, a reality show where everyone has been
sexually involved with everyone else, kind of like a terrifying
Jersey Shore, just with lots of death and destruction, and
in all of these stories, the female gin often seemed
to have one mission, making lots of demon babies, and
that requires a lot of getting it on with other demons.

(11:58):
But these ladies don't just stick to one man. They
hook up with really anyone they please. So it's not
surprising that Lilith has in more recent times become a
symbol of women's sexual freedom and independence, although that's a
bit of a hard cell given her baby killing tendencies.
But if Lilith and her sisters inspired real life women
to claim power over their bodies, the opposite might be

(12:21):
true in the story of a real life Moroccan noblewoman
that has inspired the tales of a powerful female jin
by the name of Aisha Candiya. According to one fifteenth
century legend, Aisha was a beautiful Moroccan woman from the
El Jadida region, which was at the time occupied by
the Portuguese. Her husband, part of the resistance, was killed

(12:44):
at the hands of Portuguese soldiers, and she vowed to
spend the rest of her life getting vengeance. In other
versions of the tale, Aisha herself was part of the resistance,
a warrior who one by one killed enemy soldiers Aisha
used her beauty to seduce a suspecting soldiers and officers
into dark corners where she could get them into compromising

(13:05):
and vulnerable positions. Once she had them where she wanted them,
she would pull out a long knife kept hidden in
her robes, slip their throats, and savagely mutilate their bodies.
She killed so many soldiers and was so elusive that
the occupiers started fearing her. Some even said she wasn't human.
She couldn't be given the things she was able to do,

(13:28):
They couldn't capture her. So in order to punish Aisha,
the Portuguese executed her entire family, which caused her to
flee into the jungle, overtaken by madness. But she didn't
stay in the jungle. Instead, they say, she began to
attack locals, young men in particular, and devour them. The
Aisha that was once a hero against the Portuguese had

(13:50):
now turned into a monster against her own people. And
it was this depravity that over the centuries, gave rise
to Aisha Condita the Jin know to every little and
girl in the region. Even today, she's so feared that
the mere mention of her name is forbidden because it
might invite her into your world. Some say that Aisha

(14:10):
Kandija the Jin is much more ancient than the fifteenth
century figure, that her very lineage is from one of
the seven great kings of the Jinn, schem Harush himself.
Other scholars and historians believe the legend of Aisha Kandija
hails to Canaanite cults whose temples included women called the
Kadeshah known as sacred prostitutes. Now, the practice of sacred prostitution,

(14:36):
unfortunately much more common in history and across different societies,
going back as far as six thousand b c. Was
framed as an act of worship and even female sexual empowerment.
But here is a description of the practice as relaid
by the ancient Greek historian Herodotus. It compels every woman
of the land to sit in the temple of Aphrodity

(14:58):
and have intercourse with stranger at least once in her life.
Once a woman has taken her place there, she does
not go away to her home before some stranger has
cast money into her lap and had intercourse with her
outside the temple. It does not matter what some of
the money is. The woman will never refuse for that
would be a sin, the money being by this act

(15:20):
made sacred, so she follows the first man who casts
it and rejects no one. After their intercourse, having discharged
her sacred duty to the goddess, she goes away to
her home. Now, the question of empowerment of these women
is a bit questionable, given their inability to refuse any
man who approaches them, and pardon me for thinking this

(15:41):
feels a little more like exploitation than empowerment. Nonetheless, there's
no question between the connection of female sexuality and divinity
that these and other societies made, and the figure of
Kadisha pops up repeatedly. She goes from being a sacred
prostitute to worship in ancient Egypt as a goddish name.
Kadeshu Kadesha was not only a fertility goddess, she was

(16:04):
also a goddess of sexual pleasure and sacred ecstasy. The
likeliest scenario, then, and how the legend of the jinn
Aisha Kndicha emerged, is that multiple threads of beliefs came
together to forge the mythology that exists today. In the
region most closely associated with her, Morocco. In some areas

(16:24):
she's believed to be a siren like figure, and another
is more of an earth mother type, but in all
cases she's known to be a sexually ravenous gin not
unlike her mythical predecessors. Aisha Kndicha roams a wilderness near
bodies of water and northern Morocco, often the Cebu River,
but also in some of her other favorite haunts, grottos,

(16:46):
springs fountains, where she searches for her next victim, usually
a young man. They say she's tall, with large, alluring
eyes full lips, though she never smiles. Aisha Kndicha has
a flipped she was figured that can't be hidden in
the black carbons that she's draped in. Some say those
grapes are her own hair, jet black that has grown

(17:08):
so long it wraps around her body, and at times
when she's spotted, it's as she's emerging from the water
source she haunts, combing her long, wet black hair back
from her bare body. While she's feared for causing harm
to pregnant women. What Aisha Kandita is really known for
is her fearsome and violent lust, a lust so strong

(17:30):
that her only real mission is to seduce men into
her bed, and once her victim has been intimate with her,
she reveals her true terrifying form. She's gargantuane with teeth
like knives, and hidden under the black folds are the
legs and feet of a camel. Not all of the
men who fall for her discover the truth of who
she is until it's too late, until they've already entered

(17:52):
into a sexual tryst with her, at which point he
can no longer reject her. He will either have to
become her sexual slave for life or risk being murdered
by her. Talk about a rock and a hard place.
Becoming her slave comes with dozens of conditions. Her new
man can only wear a dirty, ragged clothing that's green
or red or black. He can never cut his hair

(18:14):
or his fingernails, and he definitely can't cheat on her.
And if he rejects these conditions, tough conditions, and refuses them,
then he has to pay for it with his life.
And that's because I sha CONDITYA doesn't just satisfy her
sexual urges with her victims, she also satisfies her other
carnal drives. She drinks their blood and eats their flesh.

(18:37):
She is quite literally a man eater. Not all of
her victims end up dead, though some end up driven mad,
possessed by her, possessed with love and lust for her,
but unable to obtain her. They say that those who
seek her become married to her and her alone, unable
or unwilling to take interest in a human bride, and

(18:58):
in that way I should condi Ja has at any
given time thousands of lovers and husbands. But beyond her
human husband's she's also married to Jen royalty to an
invincible Jin king by the name of Basha Hammou. Hamu's
weakness is blood, and so you'll find him at slaughterhouses,
but he also possesses people who then slashed their own

(19:20):
limbs to satisfy the Jin's desire. Aisha, Condisha and Hammu
quite a power couple, you could say, if we lean in, though,
what we see in stories about Aisha Kndija are layers
of lessons and warnings. A lesson on the power of
a woman's sexuality, but also what happens when the sexuality
of a woman isn't in check. Its spirals out of control,

(19:44):
lust turning into violence and even death. And it's also
warning to men to stay away from tempting beautiful women
that you aren't married to, because for all you know,
she could be a cannibalistic jin. Engaging and forbidden sexual
trysts could literally be the death of you. And even
if she doesn't kill you, you could find yourself gone

(20:04):
mad with desire for her, wandering the earth the rest
of your days, seeking her, useless to the rest of
the world. So in that sense, it's almost a warning
against falling in love itself. It might seem that all
the female jin have a bad rap, sexually insatiable baby

(20:26):
killers and man eaters, but that's not exactly true. Just
as there are good and evil humans, there are good
and evil gin and the good ones are often as
powerful as the not so good ones. In Morocco, where
we met Aisha Candia, we also meet La La Rakia
el Khammer, which translates to Lady Rekia, daughter of the

(20:47):
Red One. People seeking her blessings travel to the foot
of the Atlas Mountains to the enchanting town of Seffru,
located hours from the Moroccan capital of Rabat. Centuries ago,
Seffreu wasn't important trading city as well as an ancient
Jewish Berber settlement and Nestled in the western part of
the town is the Fountain of Lady Rerechia, a miraculous

(21:09):
fountains set to bring healing for both physical and mental ailments.
Those who believe in the powers of Lady Rerechia fill
up their jugs at her fountain, but most Moroccans don't
have to go that far to find her. That's because
the abode of Lady Rerechia is the bath house. And
I don't mean the room where you go to shower
in your house. I'm talking about the public bath house,

(21:30):
the hammam, which is ubiquitous in North African and Middle
Eastern cultures. Ham Moms are culturally, socially and religiously significant,
segregated by gender. The hammam is much more than a
shared pool of water, steam rooms, heated marble slabs, rigorous exfoliation,
cold showers. It's an entire series of pampering and cleansing rituals.

(21:54):
But beyond beautification and cleanliness, the hammons are kind of
like a local pub for full get together to linger
and trade gossip, albeit naked, relax with friends and neighbors,
and the hammam often even has a role in marriages, births,
even birthdays. Apparently there's nothing like water and naked people
to attract the wrong kind of gin, which is where

(22:15):
Lady Reky steps in. She's a queen in the gin world,
deeply respected for her wisdom and diplomatic skills, and she
lords over all the gin and every ham mom in
the world. She makes it her job to protect the
hammed bathers, but only if people request her permission to
enter the hammm ask for her protection and greet her

(22:35):
as they enter. Once in the hammam, Lady Rerekia guards
both men and women from malevolent beings who might otherwise
get too attached to abeather and follow them home or
whisper sinful thoughts and to obey the heart leading them
into forbidden acts and for the price of keeping peace
the hammam, Lady Rekia also demands to be thanked and

(22:56):
bid adieu while leaving. She loves offerings of oil, lamps,
incense and perfumes too, especially on special occasions. You could
say she's a bit needy, but really, who among us
doesn't like to be valued and recognized for their work.
Now in the world of good versus bad Gin. There
is one that kind of toes the line. If you

(23:18):
remember back to earlier in the season, we mentioned one
jin that while we aren't able to shake. That's our
jin double, the one we're born with and die with,
the Corinne. And if you're a woman, well, your female
counterpart is the Carina. There was, however, an original Carina,
the one that birthed all the others that were stuck

(23:38):
with today. It's believed that at the dawn of human creation,
that Carina was Adam's first wife, but was rejected by
him and later made it with Satan to produce legions
of baby gin ad infinitum. She nominally hated men, but
women too, and to punish both, she made children the
target of her fury, causing stillbirths and fatal illnesses and babies.

(24:02):
If she sounds like Lilith, you're exactly right. The original
Karna and Lilith are one and the same. So for
the ladies out there, the Carina that you carry with
you everywhere turns out that she's the daughter of the
mother of all the gin. Our personal Carina is also
sometimes called our or Shakika, both words that mean sister,

(24:24):
but this jin takes sibling rivalry to another level. She
carries a particular interest in the spouse of her human,
fueled maybe by jealousy of all the human beings she's
missing out on. She does her best to break up
the couple was to bring hateful thoughts in her humans ears,
poisoning her heart against her husband and urging her to
leave the marriage, which begs the question though, what if

(24:48):
he's just a truly terrible spouse? What if it's a
toxic or abuse of marriage? Does blaming a garna let
crappy husbands off the hook? Does it redirect blame back
to a woman to check herself health, to second guess
the thoughts that she has of leaving? But then, divorce
has always carried a heavy social stigma, especially in times
and places where women didn't have the agency to make

(25:10):
such monumental decisions. Maybe, just maybe, the Carina gives a
woman in an unhappy marriage who might find it impossible
to leave otherwise away out and so Ladies, maybe, just
like their mother Lilith, the Corina are simply asserting power
that's long been kept from women. Speaking of power, there's

(25:37):
a fascinating female flip side to the world of Gin,
and it's not about the jinn themselves, It's about the
power of women in fighting the Gin. North African regions
are replete with female jin stories, but they're also replete
with the stories of the power of women themselves, women
who were able to trick the devil himself into giving
them power. According to the friend writer Aleene de Lenz,

(26:01):
who lived in Morocco in the early part of the
twentieth century, the oral tradition of how women of the
region came to their power goes like this. In antiquity,
old women wanted to seize the devil. What can we
do to attract him, they asked themselves. While the devil
always arrives during a dispute, So the old woman started
insulting each other and the devil arrived. Then the shouting

(26:25):
turned to sobbing. What's wrong, asked the devil. The old
woman responded, the devil is dead. The devil, confused, said
that is a lie. I am the devil, and the
old woman said, he is dead. We tell you you,
we don't know you, And the devil responded, I speak
the truth. If that's so, the old woman challenged him,

(26:48):
enter into this glass vial, and we will believe you.
And so the devil entered, and the women quickly put
a stopper on the vial. Let me out, he shouted,
by fire, we won't let you free, and so the
devil berated them ditch a female camel's prostitutes, and the
old women rerated him. Back you one eyed person, possessor

(27:08):
of a single hair, And that made the devil reconsider, Oh,
my daughters, deliver me and I will help you. But
the women responded, helping you help anyone you the father
of evil, And the devil said, I will teach you
how to prevail over men, and so the old women agreed,
and he taught them sorcery as well as the art

(27:29):
of curing illness. It said that since then Moroccan women
have been feared by some as sorceresses, having the knowledge
and power to not to subjugate and control men, keel sickness,
and fight the gin, but they also have the power
to control nature itself. One account of this comes to
us by way of doctor Emil Moauchamp. Doctor Moauchamp was

(27:52):
assigned by the French to establish his medical practice in
Marrakesh in nineteen o five as part of the French
government's ploy deepen its hold on Morocco through providing healthcare. Yes,
that seems crazy, but believe it or not, they weren't
the only colonial power who has used such ploys. Mos
Schamp was one of many colonial observers in the region

(28:13):
who collected their own ethnographies, fascinated with local customs and traditions,
especially relating to magic and sorcery. He explained one point,
how to sorceress concocted a magic paste to be able
to control the moon itself. First, the sorceress would buy
a new kneading dish during the day, and then she

(28:34):
would visit the home of all the gin with it,
the slaughterhouses, the toilets, cemeteries, the tombs of saints, as
well as synagogues and mosques, with a genie stand guard.
Then she takes the water of seven springs or covered wells,
and in the night of the full moon, between midnight
and one am, she darkens her right eye with call

(28:54):
let's blush on the right cheek, a bracelet on the
right arm and anklet on the right foot, and braids
a lock of her hair on the right Then she
goes alone to the cemetery, puts the dish on the ground,
strips naked, and runs holding a reed with a little
green flag attached, asking the spirits of darkness to make
the moon descend for her. In the dish she has

(29:18):
put the water of the seven fountains. Then one sees
the moon mount to its zenith and descend into the dish.
Immediately a storm is unleashed. The water phones and spills over,
and the sorceress collects this phone. At the same time,
Benzoin and Coriander cook in a neighboring pot, and the

(29:38):
sorceress commands, I want you to serve me for good
and for evil. When the tub is full of foam,
the Sorceress puts out the incense fire and spills the
water on the ground, and the liberated moon rises slowly
into the sky. Now that is power. Unfortunately, formau Schamp

(29:59):
he wasn't able to like these stories for long. Less
than two years after arriving in Morocco, he was murdered
right outside his own clinic. His crime he raised a
pole or intent of some sort onto his roof, which
some locals feared meant he was a French spy connected
wirelessly through the pole to a a various network, but
I can't help but wonder if he just got on

(30:21):
the wrong side of a sorceress. Thanks for joining us
this week. Next week we'll be back to take you
into another step into the world of the Hidden Gin.
Until then, remember we are not alone. If you loved

(30:43):
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Please stop my iTunes and leave me a rating and
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(31:06):
if you're a Gin enthusiast, check out the Companion Patreon
series at patreon dot com slash Hidden Jin again, that's
patreon dot com slash Hidden Gin and remember Jin is
spelled d j I n N. That's where you're gonna
find an amazing series of interviews between me, scholars, experts,
art as, historians, and everyday lay people who have had

(31:28):
extraordinary experiences with Jin and everybody can check out the
first episode absolutely free. It's me and my husband sharing
our gen stories and it was a lot of fun.
And if you have any gin stories, well, I'd love
to hear from you, email me at the Hidden Gin
at gmail dot com. Once again, it's The Hidden Gin
Gin with a D at gmail dot com. And you

(31:50):
might just hear back from me, or you might hear
your story on the show. And finally, don't forget to
follow us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, and
Instagram with handle the Hidden Gin. There you can tweet, post,
insta dm me. I'd love to hear from all of you,
and believe me, I read every single message. The Hidden

(32:13):
Gin is a production of I Heart Radio and Grimm
and Mild from Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written and
hosted by Robbia Chaudry and produced by Miranda Hawkins and
Trevor Young, with executive producers Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams, and
Matt Frederick. Music for the show was provided by Smith
Sony and Folkways Recordings. Our theme song was created by

(32:36):
Patrick Cortez. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit
the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
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