Ep. 160: The Year of the New Hunter, Phil Learns Gun Safety, and a Tragedy in the Duck Blind with Guide Armando Vendittozzi

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
I guess I grew up. Hey, everybody, welcome to another
episode of The Hunting Collective in a brand new year.
We made it to one, and we also made it
an episode one hundred and sixty. I'm feeling pretty good,
Phil the Engineer, How are you feeling, buddy? I feel great.
There's a there's there's a sunlight streaming through a window

(00:35):
right now. If it's cold outside, it's one of those
winter mornings that just feel refreshing. Yes, I am refreshed.
I feel refreshed. It's a new year, it's a new
th hc uh. Same old me and you, same old
me and you. But we gotta We're gonna do a
lot this year. We're gonna do a lot of new things.
We're gonna we're gonna keep a lot of old things
around that we like. Um. But I'm feeling renewed despite

(00:58):
the fact that the political climate has not been great. Phil,
are you do you want to talk about how you're feeling?
Do you want to just skip over that? If anyone
who's been listening to podcast for the last year, I'm
sure knows what I feel about it, I'm not gonna
offer any insight. So insight still has no insight to

(01:19):
the current political climate in the United States. I don't
really have much either, other than to say, man, it's
it's super depressing, and um, hopefully we this little show
right here can be a place to dive into hunting
and learning about all that stuff. Um, we're gonna focus,
We're gonna focus on lots of things. But as I
was thinking about what this year could bring for us,

(01:41):
I was thinking about how important it is to have
new hunters come along. A lot of the folks that
listen to the show are either brand new hunters or
adult onset hunter, which you guys could all help me
rename that term, because it sounds awful. It sounds like
you have the onset of some sort of disease that
we're gonna need to take you to the hospital for.

(02:02):
But that's not what it is. So maybe the first
task in for the TC called is to figure out
what do we call adult onset hunters and to define
that that is a hunter who has taken up the
pursuit later in life, So it could be late twenties,
could be like I would say, after the age of

(02:23):
if you take up hunting completely cold turkey, as Phil
will do soon this year. Then you are an adult
onset hunter in the current parlance, the current terminology. Phil,
do you have any suggestions of what we might rename
that to be, because adult onset hunter is not not
cutting it. Yeah, I I agree it as a terrible term.
I I don't have any any ideas right now. I

(02:44):
like that you use the term called turkey though. I
mean that's just fitting because we will be making turkeys
cold high five man. Nope, not yet. You got to
do better than you do better than that. No, no,
no dad jokes allowed on th HD And well, I
really am serious about as I thought about what could

(03:05):
be would be for us. Um, I want to really
focus on things that are new new hunters, and obviously, Phil,
you will be the test case for that along the way.
But there's so much that we can talk about, so
much we can learn in regards to how we teach people,
how we bring people into what we do. So if

(03:25):
you're out there listening and you hunted your whole life
and you love this show, you're gonna find ways to
teach new people and bring new people in. And if
you're out there and you've either never hunted or like
many of you, went hunting a few times, haven't had success. Um,
you're gonna find some tidbits of information along the way
in one on this show, and so we're gonna keep

(03:45):
the door swinging both ways. Well, if you, if you
hunted your whole life, you really should be looking at
it as a way to bring in someone new to
what we do. Bring them in. Show them what why
we love hunting, Show them why we love conservation, show
them the books we read, show them the shows we watch,
all the podcasts we listen to to get us excited.
Bring them in and show them how this thing enriches

(04:08):
our lives. If you, if you've never hunted, get in
there and make it a goal to bring someone along
with you, or make it a goal to get to
a point where you're comfortable to do that. Um, I
is going to be anything for all of us, and
we can forget the division in our country for once
in our lives. It could be about growing the thing

(04:30):
that we obviously all love so much because we're here
talking about it on this show. So Phil, you will
be our mascot. You will be our shining light as
you always are. Um, what do you feel about this
idea of one is the year of of newness, the
new Hunter. I like it. I like the direction. I
don't like the idea of me being the mascot or

(04:50):
the face of this movement. Um, it just seems like
a lot of pressure, like I'm no, I'm no count Chocola,
or like that's how I like this, you go to
I don't mind that though. That's not a bad thing.
The face of the hunt, of the face of hunting,
that's what you're gonna be, if we if if I
can have my Druthers's I'm sorry, I'm sorry to all

(05:11):
the hunters out there. No, well, listen, we certainly are.
We're gonna We're gonna really try to as we get
through this year, UM, teach Phil and give him the
lessons of what we think he needs to get along
in this pursuit, and hopefully through that he can be
a proxy for all of you to do some learning
and to teach other people. UM, a huge part of

(05:33):
this show. We're still gonna have our silly conversations, are jokes,
are segments, not so sharp moments, and things of that nature.
But I think we'renna kick off the year with a
really good guest. His name None of you know, a
lot of you won't know who he is. But he's
known me for a long time, as he will say,
he's known me since I was but a young, fresh faced,
non bearded hunter in the industry. His name is Armando

(05:57):
Vento Tozie. He is a hunting guy out of Montreal
and he's one of my favorite people. He's going to
be one of your favorite people. He's as Italian as
they get. He loves hunting as much as anyone, and
he's got a lot of stories to tell for you
guys on this episode. A couple of things. One uh
the Caribou herds in northern Quebec and the Qjuak in

(06:19):
other places, kind of the the decline he was He
was a guide for Safari Norddeeck and the years of
the decline of those two herds that are now not
being hunted. Hunting seasons were revoked removed in that part
of Quebec. So we're gonna talk about that a little bit.
But more importantly, he has something pretty serious in nature
to share, and that that is um. He was witnessed

(06:43):
too and a party to a death, accidental shooting and
a death and a duck blind up near his home
in Quebec, and so that's a tough one. It's a tragedy.
It's something that is hard for him to talk about,
hard to listen to. Um, it was even awkward at

(07:03):
times for me to listen to because it's just you
feel so horrible for the family of the man that
was killed and um, the man himself. But it's something
we can all learn from. And as as we think
about teaching new hunters, we could take this story in
and then think about gun safety across the board, especially

(07:25):
in terms of turkey hunting, duck hunting, upland hunting, where
you're often enclosed quarters with a bunch of people and
those people have guns. So I just want to say
all love to Armando for coming on and having the
strength to tell the story. You're gonna hear it coming
up pretty soon. But Phil, I want to in the

(07:46):
spirit of learning from this tragedy, we're gonna hear hear
about hearing a little bit. I want to go over
a couple of things. If you're gonna learn to hunt, Phil,
what is your first tell the audience what is your
experience with shotguns? I feel like we've touched on this before,
like what is the like? What have you done? How
comfortable one to tend? We'll get back to the number
ranking system for our friend. There a call. How comfortable

(08:09):
with the shotgun? Are you one to tend? Uh? One one?
Have you pulled the trigger on the shock of before?
Have you felt the recoil? Do you understand I have
never done this? No, nothing, I have never fired a shotgun?
All right? Are you apprehensive about it? Do you feel
like you can handle it? You know there is depending
especially at turkey load, there's quite a lot of felt

(08:30):
recoil depending on what we're what we're shooting. I feel fine, Yeah,
I feel I feel confident. Um. I mean, I maybe
maybe I'm putting the car before the horse here, but
I I feel confident in in in my abilities to
learn good. Good. I'm glad you're confident. I think one
of the things and teaching new hunters is do exactly

(08:52):
what we just did with Phil here as he is
our mascot. You tell you want to test out their
confidence level. Um, Because there's varying degrees of confidence in
the many disciplines within hunting. Right, you may be confident
with a firearm but not confident with the game you
may be confident with calling, but not with a firearms.
I mean, there's a many things that someone might understand

(09:12):
or might not understand. Um, you know, it goes it's
it's as easy as how to shoot a shotgun and
maybe as deep as as death and understanding death. Uh.
This in the systems of the natural world. So there's
a lot you can touch on. We will, we will
touch on those. But Phil, if you're down for it, man,
you tell me if you're down for I figured we
would go over the gun safety rules that I learned

(09:34):
as a kid from the National Rifle Association. You want
to go over those? Yeah, that's it, Oh, you're excited. Um,
A couple of things, man, like when we start looking
at this, there are the three fundamental rules. There are
three things that you always need to know, and then
there are a bunch of other things that really as
a gun owner you should start to develop over time.

(09:56):
But the first three rules are things that will keep
everybody safe if you do this. Uh. And it really
starts with that personal responsibility of being the one who
controls the firearm you take. When you put that shotgun
in this case in your hand, you are responsible for
what goes on with that weapon. Because it is a weapon,

(10:17):
it is dangerous, and we do intend to kill an
animal with it. So we were on immense words where
that's concerned. The first one, phil is always keep the
gun pointed in the safe direction. You know. This is
the primary rule of gun safety. Of course, common sense
might dictate what's the safest direction, but it depends on
the circumstances. Certainly, I have seen some what we call

(10:38):
in the industry h a d s, or accidental discharges.
I see what I saw one on a turkey hunt
down in Texas one year, where a veteran turkey hunter
was getting It was dark out. I had a group
of guys. I was kind of guiding them, telling them
where they needed to go on this rams to find turkeys.
This guy steps out of the truck, picks up a shotgun,

(11:00):
puts his finger on the trigger in the dark, and
pulls it and he has an a D. Of course,
luckily for us, the shot went off straight up into
the air. So this is the fundamental rule of gun safety.
If the gun is pointing in a safe direction and
the worst thing happens, at least it's going to happen
into a safe place or a safe direction. And that

(11:23):
is you know, as scary as it is to have
a gun go off when you didn't mean it to,
if it goes off into the air or into the
ground and everyone is safe, at least you have a
chance to learn from it. Uh. And that that is
as important as anything when you're teaching somebody to hunt
or you're learning to hunt and there's a gun involved,
you know, in Phil's case, a turkey gun. Um questions there, Phil,

(11:44):
that's pretty that this is all pretty common sense stuff. Yeah,
And it's it's stuff that I feel like I'm I'm
anal about like when it's not doesn't involve guns, just
I feel like I would be. I'll probably be annoying
about it. I'll probably be asking a lot of questions like, oh,
is this good? Is this good? Like uh so, um,
yeah that sounds that sounds very good. I will be

(12:06):
extra cautious with yeah, do you do you see yourself
taking the control of that and and being the one
to say like, is this safe? Is this safe? Is
this safe? Because there's some people when you get into
like the social pressures of being in a hunting camp
with a bunch of people, that have done it their
whole lives. You want to seem like you know what
you're doing as fast as possible, even if you're a
new guy. And so I've seen a lot of people

(12:27):
come into it with kind of a cavalier attitude after
a short time of learning and leave this this idea
that they have to be the one with the personal
responsibility to be safe off the side once they feel
like they're part of the club and they've they've learned
the basics. I don't really have a concern about my
own choice of our decisions, but the thought of being

(12:49):
with a group of other people who all have guns,
that just just the thought of that, I just probably
sounds completely insane and silly to lifeline hunters, But to me,
it's it's just it. It makes me nervous, it gives me,
gives me the hebe gebs. Yeah, I mean it is.
We're gonna hear a story from my good friend Armando
coming up, or someone lost their life, Um, because these

(13:10):
rules weren't followed. It was an accident. But that you know,
you don't get to take that back. So that's that's
a big one. If you can always keep that gun
pointing in a safe direction. That's that's a philosophy that
will always do you well. Here's here's the next one.
Always keep and we say always like capital letters. Always,
always keep your finger off the trigger until you are

(13:31):
ready to shoot. You know, when you're holding a gun,
you rest your finger near the trigger guard alongside the frame.
You do not rest your finger on the trigger or
the trigger guard anywhere near it until you are ready
to touch off a shell or around in that gun
if if it's pointing in a safe direction, and your

(13:53):
fingers never on the trigger until you're you know exactly
where you're gonna send that payload of babies in this case,
or a shot at that turkey. You're never going to
have a problem with your trigger control. But trigger control
being something not only for the performance, for your shooting performance,
be able to hit with training at but knowing where

(14:15):
to place your trigger finger on the shotgun when you're
holding it, when you're carrying it in the woods, to
make sure there's never a chance where that finger is
gonna find its way to the trigger when it shouldn't.
Um and this this is this goes across the board,
not only when you're getting it out of the case,
when you're loading it in the case, when you are
carrying it in the field, when it's slung over your shoulder,

(14:36):
when you're shouldering it to get ready to shoot it
an animal. These are the types of things, um, that
you have to be thinking about. And not only when
you know you're gonna let around go, but when you're
doing the day to day things, the normal things that
you will do. And if you're on a seven day
turkey hunt, on day five, you will have that shotgun

(14:58):
slung over your shoulder for a long period of time
each day. So this is when those that when people
get lax, when those accidents happen. UM, in my mind,
these at the times when you can really hone, UM,
how responsible you are and how cognizant you are of
what you're doing with a firearm. Uh makes sense, fil

(15:20):
got it, got it all right? I like that, UM.
Always keep the gun unloaded until you're ready to use it. Now,
this there's a lot that goes into this. There's a
lot to knowing when how do I know when a
gun is unloaded? How do I know when to load
the gun? Um? How do I be ready should a

(15:40):
turkey come rolling around the corner? But also be safe.
Um keeping the action open on a firearm, especially a shotgun,
it's harder to do with a bold action rifle shotgun,
it's not so you know, uh, the semi auto shotgun
like you'll be using on this hunt, a weather Be
eighteen I, it's not so hard to do. You lock

(16:03):
the action open so you can look down inside the
chamber and inspect the chamber and you can see whether
or not a shell is present, and that is the
safest way. Now, all you have to do is let
that action down and that will automatically, especially in an autoloader,
put a shell in the chamber, so you're ready to roll. Now,

(16:23):
there's a bunch of reasons why you do it and
don't do it. But and this case, locking that action
back is the way that you can physically look and
inspect that at any time. If the action is closed
and it is in battery, you will not be able
to see whether or not there is a shell in
the chamber ready to roll. So this is this is

(16:44):
where it gets to the more practical application, because that
you have to know your weapon, you have to know
how it works, and you have to tell yourself there's
in this case, especially with a shotgun, there's one way
you can tell physically that it's safe and another way
you don't really know. Um, you would assume, you can assume,

(17:05):
but that action open is the thing that will keep
keep you safe when you're crawling around in the timber
looking for a turkey. Um, questions, Phil, this one, I
feel like this one you should have some questions. Yeah, Well,
this one's a little bit more. This one is tougher
because I feel like I need a more practical, like
hands on experience with with the gun to kind of
get this one fully. Because like in theory, I understand it,

(17:27):
like I know what an action is, a chamber magazine, YadA, YadA,
But like, actually, you know, interacting with these things myself,
I think will provide a lot more understanding. Yeah. Yeah,
there's like you said, there's a lot of different types
of even shotguns. I mean, we could be using a
side by side and over under an autoloader in this case,

(17:50):
there's a lot of things we could be doing. There's
a lot always to keep those different action types safe.
And so we get into bold action, then we get
into somehow to rifle, get into lever action, a single
shot there's a ton of things you can get into
when you're thinking about firearms. Um. And so yeah, man,
I think I imagine at some point we'll take a
trip to the range here in the very near future,

(18:12):
and we'll record it for everybody so they can hear
you're kind of going through the practical application of this.
But again, those three rules. Always keep the gun point
in a safe direction, Always keep your finger off the
trigger until ready to shoot, and always keep the gun
unloaded until ready to use. Are that is the bible
for gun handling. Those are the things that you cannot

(18:32):
do wrong. Um. And if you do all those things,
even if you have an accidental discharge, even if something
happens that you're not expecting, if the gun malfunctions in
a way that you can't control, we won't have a
tragedy or an injury or anything. We don't want, only
a learning experience if if we do these things correctly,
what else phil what like any other apprehensions. I mean,

(18:54):
there's some other things that we can talk about, and
we'll talk about about gun safety, but those are the
three things that you've got to have down before we
do anything. I don't have anything now because I mean,
it was sort of the same thing I was taking
my hunter safety and it was getting into all the
the nitty gritty of the actual like mechanical applications and
and and stuff. I I think, I at this point,
I just need to I just need to actually try it,

(19:17):
and I need to I need to hold a gun
in my hand and load it and fire it and
and and follow all the all the safety measures. And
I think then I'll have more practical questions. But right
right now, I think I'm pretty much as as far
as I can get good. Well, that's what I look
forward to, man, And there's other things that we'll talk
about when we get out there, like know your target
and what's beyond it. You got to be absolutely sure

(19:39):
you know what it's beyond your target, and if it is,
if there's something that is possibly unsafe, you do not
let that that round or shell fly. Um, it's not
a shell. You do not pull the trigger. It's probably
better more accurate way to say that. You know, think first,
shoot second is a big part of that. You think
about the scenarios of what's gonna happen when you pull

(20:00):
the trigger. Um, and once you're comfortable, then you shoot
you know, and of course knowing how to use the
gun safely, using the correct ammunition, understand the types of ammunition,
certainly understanding when you should be wearing eye and ear
protection because we often wear it at the range but
not in the field. Be you know, and understand the

(20:21):
operation of the gun and stuff will learn next time
we're out at the range and other times. Also how
to store a gun, how to clean a gun, what
to do with it. I mean you have kids, Um,
you don't have you have any guns in the house
right now, Phil, Nope, no guns. Um, So now you're
gonna have when I get you a gun, you're gonna
have a gun in the house. And so you're gonna
have to learn um and think through with your probably

(20:43):
with your wife. What's this gonna mean. It might mean
you're uncomfortable with having one in the house in the
short term and it has to stay in my gun
safe or um there's a way that you feel comfortable
having it there. So there's there's things when you're when
we're going through this with you, I figure out there
if you're teaching someone and this is their first time,
much like Phil, something to think about um and go

(21:07):
over so We've got a lot of emails from a
lot of new hunters here and every There's a lot
of people that are in phil situation, and one of
them is dom g Dominique Letty. He said, I just
passed the hunter safety course and purchase a license for
the year. My uncle is a lifelong hunter and we

(21:27):
are planning on some deer and elk hans out here
in Oregon this coming fall. Before that time comes, my
plan is to go out shooting as much as I can,
as well as longer hikes and backpacking trips to help
train my body. I guess my question is would you
recommend starting with smaller game first or just way to
jump into these bigger hunts we have planned. I'm looking
forward to learning, spending time my uncle getting to know

(21:49):
more remote corners of my state, and he wants to
also know, like what an elk smells like. He's looking
forward to smelling an elk. Unfortunately, filled turkeys don't have
a particular smell that I'm aware of, so but an
elk shre does. And I would describe an elks smell
is like a muskie. I'm not even sure how to
really describe. It's something it's a really musky scent that

(22:11):
turns your head as soon as you run into it
in the timber in the woods. Um. In terms of
the question dom G about bigger hunts, what should you
be doing? I think a lot of it In terms
of this learning to hunt is what are you What
are you comfortable with? Like we talked about the beginning
of this, what are you comfortable with? Are you comfortable

(22:33):
with a single tag and the pressure that comes with
you know, the kind of the singular opportunity to kill
an elk? I mean you only have to say you
only have one tag for this for the season, um?
Or do you want to get more time behind a
rifle shotgun in the in the squirrel woods or chasing rabbits? Um?
That I'll give you a better understanding of killing an

(22:56):
animal taking the meat. It's it's more fun, Certainly, the
opportunities are more plentiful. So if you're looking for that, man,
if you're looking to just get outside and experience what
it's like to be out there and be be killing animals,
um and taking their meat and eating it, certainly I
would say, um, that's the exploration for you. But if
you're okay with you know the big game hunt, which

(23:18):
is exactly that. It's big man, It's it's every time
you pull the rifle up, it's it's a singular opportunity
to fill your You're probably your one tag, I would
think in that case. So that's a decision you have
to make. Certainly less pressure on a scorrel hunt. So
if you're looking for more of a less pressure filled situation,

(23:38):
I'd go there. But it depends on your mindset. Feel
do you feel like turkey hunting is any pre any
pressure about, you know, having a single turkey tag? Would
you rather what we talked about ducks before, we talked
about rabbits, We talked about all kinds of stuff in
the past. Any any opinion there are you're just waiting
for me to shut up so you can go out
and uh no, no, definitely not not the ladder at

(24:02):
least not too much. Um I I just it's just
it's tough until I actually like, like, just from standing
from a distance and looking in, I'd say that, like
turkey hunting, it looks like a lot of fun. I
think duck hunting looks like a lot of fun. Um.
The more stories I hear about big game hunting. I
feel like I would like to work up to it,

(24:22):
and it's something that honestly from the outset doesn't like
appeal to me. Maybe it will down the road, but
like you know, obviously I'll try it, but just start
starting out. I think I think Turkey, turkey and duck hunting,
like just just look fun. It looks like a like
a low stress good time if you want it to

(24:44):
be um so good. Yeah I can't. Oh, man, I
hope you love turkey. You still have my Colonel Tom Kelly.
It's still Hill on my nightstand. Ben, Okay, I'm not
asking you for the reason that I was putting together
the new th HD studio at my house and I
was like, it wasn't here, and I've got it. I've panicked.
I panicked. So get get your reading the tenth Legion

(25:06):
if you haven't already cracked it open, crack it open um.
And I can't tell you, man, how this is. I mean,
I have sons and I will take them hunting for
the first time sometime soon. But until that time comes, Phil,
you are I am your father. I'm your I'm your
big thirty year old boy. Yeah, I am your father.
If you know what I mean, this little Star Wars reference.

(25:28):
You're feeling it, you're feeling it all right, Well, we'll
appreciate you listen listening to this, and again when you
hear the story from Armando, my good from Armando coming up.
There are ways to prevent this tragedy that we're gonna
hear here about, and there are ways to learn from it.

(25:48):
It's it's I waded in my own mind. Is this
something worthy of a podcast? Somebody died? Yeah, it was
disrespectful to the person and their family who we do
not know. On somebody I've ever met, or or and
I don't know them. But again, if if this person's
death can mean anything to us, and all the people

(26:09):
that have have perished in hunting accidents can can mean
anything to us, it's to help us learn and to
be aware of what's happening, what's happening with other people,
what's happening with ourselves. I really do think awareness and
understanding that these gun safety rules, these n RAY gun

(26:29):
safety rules are not you know, they're not only when
you're new, they're every single day you go a field
of the firearm. So hopefully that this is something everyone
can take from this. We're gonna have a lot of
fun with Rmando, he's one of my favorite people. A
lot of laughs, but they're too Towards the end, we're
gonna get serious. We're gonna talk about something it's very
important to me and should be very important to all

(26:50):
of you. As we get into the new year, everybody
set a goal. I know I've had you guys do
silly shit like drawl pictures of Phil's voice face and
make poems and sing songs. We're still going to do
all that, I promise, But if you all want to
do something for me and fulfill this year, pledge to
take someone out and teach them what we do. Or

(27:13):
pledge to yourself to learn enough this year to be
to find a way to give yourself the knowledge based
required to take someone out. If we all do that,
it will have been a good year. The number of
people that listen to this podcasts all take out a
new hunter. It will have been a good year for hunting,

(27:34):
and we will be growing this thing in the right way.
So now, my good friend Hunting Guide Wonderful. I think
he might be in the mafia. There's no way to know.
His name is Romando Benda Toozi Armando, How is it going, buddy,

(27:59):
I'm doing well, thank you and yourself been Oh I'm
doing just fine, just fine. It's a new year, a
lot to talk about. But it's been long overdue to
have you on this here podcast, So thanks for doing it.
Oh it's my pleasure. Now you have some You have
the distinct opportunity to tell some stories from the good
old days that not a lot of people that come

(28:19):
on this show have. So a distinct opportunity to tell
some old stories about how I used to be, pre beard, young, pubescent,
early days. Uh, do you want to reveal anything about
my character, you know, to pre two thousand ten bub days? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

(28:41):
you tell the people what it was like to know
me when I just had a goatee and I was
the other but a pup. Yeah. So I had the
pleasure of of hosting Rob Bob up on a bear
Hunt in oh nine, and we decided to do it
again in and is like, you know, I know this

(29:01):
good kid, he works at the n r A. He's
new in the business. You know, maybe we we get
him up and give him a shot. And I'm like,
you know, what, what the hell? Someone gave me a shot.
Why not, so I get to meet little old Benny,
Little Benny, Little Benny. He had three three hairs on
his chin, baby face. I didn't even think you were

(29:24):
shaving it. Um, but you had just started at the
n r A, and we drove you up to the
Domain Shannon up in northern Quebec. And uh, what I remember,
like it was yesterday, was when you pulled out that
cannon that you brought us a gun, thirty five whale,
and I feel like it was it was a single

(29:45):
shot Thompson center break action thirty five whale and with
the shortest barrel you could possibly get built to wreck
your shoulder. We all figured out real quick that you've
never done a bear hunt before, and maybe you there
was a little bit of a fear factor in your
choice of gun, Like all right, but you know what,

(30:07):
I think it turned out really well. You you took
a good bear. I ended up killing my first bear
with a bow on that trip. If you didn't remember
that you did, and um, I'm happy to say it
was the start of a few adventures we did together
and a pretty cool friendship over the years. Um Me
being the older one, I guess I took the the

(30:29):
that that drunk distant uncle and you're the nephew. I
like that. Yeah, I always thought. I always thought, because
you know Armando Vento toes, they always sounds so wonderfully
Italian and wonderfully uh, wonderfully Canadian, wonderfully Quebec that you know,
you would be my constltieri at time, and your wonderful

(30:51):
wife and your children, you know, often spent time with
me and took me in as someone who didn't know
anything about anything. I'm happy to say. I'm happy to
say for those that don't know. When you decided to
leave UM the n r A, I believe at the time,
and you were gonna go to the media company, we

(31:16):
sat and had dinner and talked about that and I
give you my opinion. And when you decided to go
to Yeddi, you called and we talked about that, and
I gave you my opinion on that. And I'm happy
to say that your life is working out real well
and that both of our our common understandings are working

(31:36):
out for you. UM and both of those companies were
very lucky to have you, in my opinion, And I'm
not just saying that because you're my friend. You know,
I don't. I don't usually beat around the bush, so um, yeah,
I'm really glad how that worked out for you. And uh,
and you come a long way from that little three
three haired three chin haired dude that I met in

(31:58):
thirty five whalen and a smile that gun man. Oh
my god, I think the bear died from a heart attack.
I think when he heard thirty five whale and I'm
twenty yards away, what are you trying to do to me? Yeah,
I had some learnings to do, as I still do.
But yeah, it definitely is. You know when I remember

(32:22):
when we met, we uh connected on movie quotes and
just you know, sometimes when you meet somebody you just
know right You're like, ah, it's my guy. It's gonna
be my guy right here. And you're always been incredibly
loyal and just a good person. You've raised I've known
your children since I think they were I don't even
know anymore, five six, seven years old. Josh was nine

(32:45):
when you met him, and Livy was to not Yeah,
she would not go near me for a while. I
always like to say that she was maybe in love
with me, but probably just the two year old. This
weird guy always saying it around. Uh, Livy, Livy's got
Livy's got some some character in her, that's for sure. Yeah, yeah,

(33:09):
that was pretty me. Even thinking about having kids and
now married with two kids. I I feel, I feel
where you were in life at that way back when.
Isn't it awesome? Though? It's wonderful. Yeah, we just to
see the little things. But we know the other day,
I know you do a lot of waterfowl hunting and
guide in these days. Um, the other day I was
at a buddy's house and we were we shot a

(33:29):
few geese and it was it was no big hunt.
It was cool enough that we were pretty close to
his house so the kids could watch us, you know,
shooting geese as they passed over. And my little little
guy got to plug a goose and chase the feathers
around in the yard and you know, chop wings off
with a hatchet, and you know, see and help me
hang the goose up and see what a fully plucked

(33:51):
goose looks like. It's just I mean those experiences. To me,
that would have been a really quick and easy thing
to do. You know, it would have been no big deal.
But to watch him experience that and then you know,
chasing feathers that are flying around the wind and have
the best time in his life. If that doesn't ground
you and and level things off, I don't know what will.
So I know you were telling me that your kids

(34:12):
are growing up and you missed the days when you
just had a little sidekick running around. Oh yeah, like Josh. Well,
you know, Josh has been following me around, um since
he was like six years old. I took him up
on his first trip. And he's at that age now
where it's girls and uh, girls, and I'd like to

(34:33):
say something else, but it's just it's girls. But he's
a good kid. He's in college. He wants to be
a policeman. Um. And Livy is in high school now
and she she still comes along. She likes to turkey
hunt with me. Um. You know it's important, I think
at all. It's it's very important to get your kids out.
Let him try. They'll come around. You know, you kind

(34:56):
of force it on them, like I see you with
your kid. He's he's an truly in love with the outdoors,
which is awesome. It's at some point it may it
may um straight from that, but ultimately they'll come back
to it and you'll be happy you did it. And
they grew up way too fast. I know that's the thing, man,
I would do. I I am in that little buddy
phase with my my older son. He just is everywhere

(35:19):
I go. He seems to just want to do everything
I do. And I remember that with my dad. You
know you've met my dad, Like I still feel kind
of that way if he was living around, if he
was living around these parts, I would still kind of
feel that way about hanging out with him. But but definitely, ah,
I'll miss this time when it's gone. And I know
that now. You know in the moment that I'll miss

(35:41):
this time when when whether it's football or um anything football, hunting,
plucking a goose. Um. He's excited for turkey season this year.
We were in the store the other day and he's like,
pie turkey call by as a son, I have a
thousand turkey calls. He said, one for me and you
to use. I was like, all right, perfect, I bought.
I bought a couple of turkey calls. So he he

(36:03):
felt like he had some ownership or something. So it's
just so just just to give you a little quick
story about turkey calls. I tried forever to master a
diaphragm a mouth call, and all I could do was
get like a gag sound coming out, you know, it
just it didn't work. Livy popped one in her mouth

(36:25):
and within I don't know five seconds, she was she
was clucking away, and I was like, what in the hell.
And I don't know if it motivated me or it
made me mine up, but that's that night. I ended
up finally making some turkey sounds out of that, out
of that diaphragm. But she puts it in her mouth
and she'll look at me and it's like, what the hell. Yeah,

(36:50):
you just never know you'd like him, You like him
to have that, like have this this idea that they're
going to be better than you, and there's there's nothing
you can do. Maybe slow that down, you know, the teaching,
teaching him for a while before they teach you. Uh,
that was so much. Yeah, it's just a good it's
such a you know, when you have something that you
love as much as we love at the outdoors, you
know we should probably tell people what you have done

(37:12):
and what you do for a living. But now when
you have have this love. You know, you'd like desperately
want them to come along. It's never gonna be perfect. Um.
And I don't know if i'd want my kid to
do exactly what I do because I started out just
hunting with my dad. And he was telling me the
other day, He's like, I didn't know anything we started hunting,
you know, I was just doing what I knew how
to do. Um, I don't know if I want my

(37:34):
kid to have anything but that experience. You know, it's
just a pretty normal hunting experience with his dad. Would
be would be just fine with me. Nothing, nothing too fancy.
I agree, I agree, Well we should. You know, when
I met you, you were you were doing a lot
of bear guiding. You were doing you know, like I said,
Domaine Shannon, is that still around? That that's about stiff.
I still my my daughter and I we go up

(37:56):
every spring to Walleye Fish. I don't really do the
bear hunts there. I haven't been a while, um, for
no other reason, just that, you know, other opportunities presented themselves.
And sure, um, in time, you know, you you make decisions,
you go for the owners are are still dear friends
of mine. And I mean I don't miss I don't
miss an opening, an opening weekend. For while, iye fishing

(38:18):
with Livy Um when I met you. Also, I had
the bars back then. Yeah, I remember that. I remember thinking,
like I remember thinking, this guy's like I was watching
last night, I was up watching Good Fellows. I'm like,
this guy's a good fellow. This guy's like, this guy
is he is, he owns the bar. I remember, you know,
you had like it's such a warm energy in Quebec

(38:42):
where we went, you know, and you had walking in
your bar. Everybody loves you, you love everybody, like it
was just it just felt like this guy, this guy
is a good fellow. I think I'm not not quite
but um yeah, the bar of life, I'm you know
what it did. It's time. It allowed me to to

(39:02):
do a lot and it was fun. Um. But you
know in life, you like you did, you turn the
page and you go forward with other things. Right, that's right,
that's right. Well, you know over the years, you've you know,
guided for for bears up in northern Quebec. You in Saskatchewan.
You were telling me I got in for bears and

(39:24):
I know there's a white tail and waterfowl opportunities over there.
You've you've kind of branched out into some waterfowl there
locally around where you are. Give people just it's just
a rundown on how you came to hunting and um
just because I'll tell you this, and when I met
you too, I remember thinking, this guy is a hunting guy,
like you're like, you got style, you got flash, you
own a bar downtown, like this guy is. This guy

(39:46):
is not a rural hunting guy like you have. And
now you're in real estate, like you just have this
air about you of someone that's cool and maybe even
urban if I would put it, that's probably a bad
way to put it. But like you just you just
it's it's not something that I expected the two sides
of you. So give people like how you came to
be in the outdoors and guiding folks. Well, I've I've,

(40:10):
believe it or not, I've I've been fishing since I'm
like three years old with my grandfather. Um in my family,
be at my mom's side, my dad's side, my wife,
anybody in her side. I'm the only person who hunts.
And I started hunting when I was like twenty two

(40:31):
or twenty three. Years old. UM, my friend door neighbor
and his uncle, his uncle Tony. He invited me. He's like,
you know, kid, you want to come? And I said, yeah, sure,
so let's try. And he took me deer hunting and
I seem to enjoy it. It was okay. Um. He
gave me my first gun and then he took me
out um on a on a bird hunt, and that

(40:54):
triggered something inside me. And I've been I've been, you know,
in love with water of foul hunting ever since. Um,
the big game, you know, like everyone in my area.
It's like you you hunt deer, you hunt moose. I mean,
I've done it. I worked at Safari nordic Um prior
to meeting you. That's a caribou operation. That's unfortunately the

(41:17):
Quebec Caribou um hunting no longer exists. Um. I worked
there for two years as in sales, which allowed me
to meet so many people. We were running like twelve
clients through their season. I met some fantastic people. I met,
you know, the TV guys. I met Ralph, I met

(41:39):
Michael Woodell, Jim Shocky, I mean all the all the
big wigs. I met Rob Bob we should clarify shot
out to Bob, I haven't talked to him for a
long time. When a wonderful Um. But yeah, actually I
read I read an article of his in the s
CI magazine the last issue. I was giggling all by

(41:59):
my off every time I see Oh Bob, Rob, Yeah, man,
that that's an interesting time in your life, one that
I kind of met you at the tail end of
and when I was telling you before we got on
that I wanted to talk about and if only if,
like I think, to start to understand the culture of
where you live, um, and kind of the way hunting

(42:19):
was looked at back then. I mean, we say back then,
it's not that long ago. Um. Back then there was
such an energy around caribou hunting in that side and
really the Rust Belt, really people on the East Coast
in the United States were coming up in droves to
hunt caribou. Um in the northern Quebec Herds. M hm,

(42:40):
yeah we um so Partner Dick at the time was
the biggest caribou operation in Quebec. Um. There were plenty
of good ones, you know, like people would call I mean,
I was, I was the director of sales at the time.
And all this was when I had the bar, So
that's what I mean. When the bar allowed me to
do a lot of things. So uh, you know, I
had a lot of three time, so I was able

(43:01):
to build my my sales I don't want to see,
you know, technique, but that's the only way to say it,
to build my my sales technique. Um. And we were
running like those were the heydays. Let's say, oh six,
oh seven, oh eight, o nine, we were averaging that
about clients per per season. Then I left the company

(43:23):
in oh nine, and that's when I mean it's just coincidence.
Like oh ten, the number started dwindling, eleven even less,
and it just started getting progressively harder and hardert for
nordiqu went out of business. Um, A lot of the
others went out of business. And I think the last
time I was up there was right about five years ago,

(43:48):
right like just before they closed the hunt. They closed
it for the biologists. You know, they claimed that the
the herd took such a massive hit and a decline
in numbers that they ultimately said it's due to hunting,
So we're going to close down the hunting. Um I'm
not you know, I'm not versed in the politics side

(44:11):
of it. Obviously the world we live in, you know,
that has something to do with it. So more than that,
I don't know. But it was a fantastic industry here
in Quebec that people came, not just from the East
coast like the West coast Mexico, from Europe. I I
met people from We had guides working for us from Australia.

(44:33):
Um Matt one of Jim Shocky's guides, he's he was
on He used to work for Safari Nordic and that's
where I met him. He was you know, people just
wanted to to live that experience. And I say it today,
it's too bad that it's closed. But if you ever
had the opportunity to go up into the Arctic and
experience that, it's an experience like no other. I mean

(44:54):
we all say, yeah, there's the the Africa's and the
Argentina's and this, but there's some in about that Arctic.
I mean I was fortunate enough to go up like
five times and no, no, no time was like nothing
was ever duplicated. It was always something new, something. I
mean the last time I went up there, I had

(45:15):
the privilege of hosting Blake Sheldon Um and his group,
and it was it was pretty awesome. But that aside,
I got to go quad writing in the Arctic, through rivers,
places that no one's ever walked before, and I was
I was writing a quad um, doing miles and miles
and miles each day to go kill tarm again, and

(45:35):
like just something that every person should have tried to experience,
especially if you're a hunter. It's just it was magical.
And the fact that that's over really really sucks. You know,
there's no nice way to put it. It just sucks. Yeah,
and there's you know, we certainly could have biologists on that.
We'll talk about you know, exactly why this all went down.

(45:56):
But when when you you certainly look at the from
the early nineteen seventies through the ninety nineties and in
in the early two thousand, you know when you were
kind of like like you said, you're kind of there
at the tail end of it, maybe the precipice, and
then you know, as it started to fall down. But
from the seventies of the nineties, you know, que back
caribou were I mean, they were in a special place
in the heart of American hunters. They really were. I mean,

(46:17):
there was such a it was accessible, Um, it was affordable,
and like you said, it was an adventure. It was.
It was an adventure. I never I never got to
go do it myself, but I know my dad did.
Um and I knew that you did. And I had,
you know, seen the country, um bear hunting with you, you
you know, further south obviously, but understanding the culture around it,

(46:39):
and then even seeing you know, the hotel what was
the pit stop hotel that you guys had people flying
you know, come into when they flew to the Hilton.
The Hilton, Yeah, the Hilton there. Uh, it was just
full of hunters man as this. It was a cool scene.
It just felt like a pretty timeless thing. And then
you you know, two bull hunts for a lot of
outfitters was like you know what, I don't know what

(47:00):
you guys charged, but bucks guys could drive across the
border in Buffalo, they could drive across the border in Champagne,
you know the windsor they could they could do something.
You know, at least where I came from. That was awesome. Um.
And they were you know in places like the southwest
of Kuju Act. They were in a place called the barons.
Um they could really see what you just described, which

(47:23):
is a flying camp on a on a lake in
some of the most amazing country. Um. And it didn't
feel all that far off, you know, which is important.
It was it honestly was actually uh, I just looked
at it was the last time I was up, so
I think they closed it right at Yeah, that was
when the hunt was over. Yeah, there's two there's so

(47:45):
there's I was just looking. There's two herds. There was
a leaf River herd, and then there was the George
Ever heard, right, Yeah, and they were you know which
the George Ever heard at a shorter migration moving along
that Quebec Labrador border border. But you know, at its height,
maybe it was eight thousand animals in that herd, and
to see even a quarter of that, half of that,

(48:08):
a tenth of that I'm moving across the landscape, you know,
must have been amazing. And now you know today maybe
it's five or six or seven thousand cariboo. Um. So
it's it's just interesting too. Again, I don't think we're
I'm not in a position nor I don't I think
you are to really go into you know, the population
dynamics here. I'm sure predation, winner kill, global warming, over hunting,

(48:32):
all of those things probably went into this. UM. But
as much as I know about it, there's not There's
not a bunch of biologist saying it was one thing. Um. No,
it was it was it was a collective of a
few different things. I know, like the Oh the Oh
nine season, we started seeing a lot of sick caribool

(48:52):
A lot of them had that mange. Yeah. UM, I'm
sure that that factors in. Uh. You know, UM, But
like I said, I'm not a biologist. I don't know
what it is. All I know is um it it
really like closing that it really really really hurt um

(49:13):
an industry that a lot of people had every dollar
they had invested in. You know. UM. I was president
at the time of Safari Club chapter here in Montreal,
and I remember when I got to UM Torino No
in Vegas in I think you were there that that

(49:33):
year that I met with you. UM. One of the
outfitters from Quebec had left me a voicemail and he's like,
I need you to come by my booth. I absolutely
want to see you. And he was one of the
oldest outfitters here. UM and the man like he literally
broke down in tears, like is there anything you guys
could do? And I told him, I go, listen, I go.
It's it's not a legal matter. When the biologists do

(49:56):
their tests and there's you know, our our argument doesn't
hold water against the biologists. Basically what they say goes
when it comes to the well being of a species
or or you know. So. I but to to see
a man who for fifty years ran a top notch
operation and fed his family and gave jobs and brought

(50:19):
money because it brought a lot of money to kuduac,
the hotels in Montreal, um, the restaurants. I mean, it
just annihilated a very very big industry and it's it's
too bad. I hope probably not. But I would love
for one day for for even if it's open on
a limited you know, a limited matter like a draw

(50:39):
tiger or whatever, but just for for to give people
the opportunity to go up and experience it would be
pretty awesome. Yeah. I remember my friend Andrew McKeen uh
went up there and reported on it for Outdoor Life
and wrote a really good story and I remember reading it.
You know, this would have been like two years ago
probably and just man feeling really sad because they're they're

(51:00):
haven't gone north, you know, to north in the northern
parts of the Northwest territories in the Mackenzie Mountains, these
towns like yellow Knife and some other towns. Once you
get far reaching into the northern Canada, um and into
the territories, they rely on these They rely on this economy.
I mean it is their economy at some level. Um.
If you go there, you can see why there's not

(51:22):
a lot of tourism opportunities, I mean their outposts, um,
and they rely on this, but there was I just
was looking at a two thousand sixteen report Quebec's provincial
Department of Parks and Wildlife. They said, recent documentary documentary
analysis has clear clearly revealed that the main threats to
the long term survival of migratory caribou populations are over

(51:43):
exploitation through hunting and poaching, the expansion of occupation of
the territory and the attendant industrial activities, as well as
climate change. So basically all the things we listed, Um,
you know, wolves certainly are are are in there. Um.
They talk a lot about the fickle nature the yo
yo nature of population dynamics within caribou herds, my specifically

(52:05):
migratory caribou herds, and that report that I read a
little bit, Um, there's evidence of YO young populations over
the last two hundred years. UM. And they respond weather
and predator numbers and so many other things. So maybe
there is hope that that can get going again, and
hope that we've learned something from it. Um. We certainly
learned to cherish it. I would imagine you would agree, Oh,

(52:29):
you better believe it. Those are, honestly, buddy, those are
some of my some of the best days ever spent
up there. And you know what, I'm not gonna lie.
You know, people every day people say, oh, you love
your job. You love your job. I loved working at
Safari and Radique. When I met people at the hotel,
it allowed me to meet so many people, and like indirectly,

(52:52):
it it led me to even become your friend, because
if I don't meet I don't meet Rob Bob, I
never meet you. You know what. I'm so not just
not just the the hunting factor of it, like everything
about it was awesome, UM. And I if they would
ever open up again, and I had the opportunity to

(53:13):
go work there again. I mean, I jump on it,
that's for sure. Yeah. Yeah, I just felt like a
moment in time that was important, um, for hunting and
for you know, like like I said, when I was
with you at that hotel, it just felt like it
just I was like, man, this feels this feels pretty special.
It feels like something. This feels like a moment in
hunting history that will all look back on and be like, man,

(53:33):
it was cool to be up here. And and I
guess that's evidence by all of the you know, all
the celebrities and big name folks that came through there, um,
you know, and that I watched on TV and read
about in magazines and and that's no longer. Um, you know,
there's still migratory here's in Alaska that we can hunt.
There's there's a bunch of things that can happen. But

(53:54):
it just felt like, you know, where you were at
that time and what you were doing definitely meant something,
you know, for a lot of people. All Right, Well,
you know, moving on from that, I do I kind
of this has inspired me kind of return to that
at some point in ine and and think about you know,
from a from a science and biology and ecology perspective,

(54:18):
what happened? Because what what a like what a case study?
That hurt is both in its cyclical nature and its
fickle nature, and you know how accessible it was for
hunters and what it meant to guys like you in
the whole industry over time. So it feels it feels
do you feel like that crippled, I mean that completely
wiped out an industry? Did that cripple hunting in Quebec

(54:41):
in a way? Or you feel like it's still with
waterfowl and bears and all the other things that are available,
still vibrant. The bears, the spring bears. Up until COVID
was still a very very big industry for Americans to
come up and hunt everything else like not really um,
the waterfowl maybe a little bit, but nothing like the

(55:03):
caribou or the spring bear. Spring bear hunting is still
very very popular for um for Americans to come up
and do. UM. They usually like like you experienced that
you combo it up with like walleye fishing and um
people left to sightsee Montreal, Montreal is awesome. UM, so
you know, believe it or not, depending the groups. I

(55:26):
would book that came up in to bear hunt, I'd
try and and work them that they arrived the week
of the Grand Prix, which is the busiest time in Montreal,
and it's like if you've never experienced big city life
and the parties and this and that. So I'd get
my hunters to fly in like on the Friday overnight
Friday Saturday, and then we drive up Sunday morning to

(55:49):
camp and whatever condition we'd be in after two nights
of Grand Prix downtown. But that industry, I mean that
that we didn't have that the summer either. And I mean,
like everyone else, I'm not I'm not saying we're you
know that we suffered more than anyone else. Everyone else suffered, Um,
but the tourism industry and in a hole, Um, it's

(56:10):
something that that a lot of people live on, and
uh we all suffered in that that caribou hunt. It
hurt a lot of people. Yeah yeah, I mean you know,
and then you have the what what COVID has done
over time and and you know it's not a good
it's really something we we did it first Light our company.
First Light, we looked at how can we help outfitters

(56:31):
and and in time. You know, we we donated a
percentage of sales to some organizations and gave people discounts
if they booked, you know, showed us that they booked
with an outfitter this last year. So, I mean, there's
such so many things we can do, um, especially when
restrictions are lifted, you know how it is now. I mean,
so many outfitters had to cancel haunts from last year

(56:51):
then this year, and so they're they're way backlogged on
on folks that either had already paid um. You know.
And I was talking to a few outfitters up there,
including Jim Shocky. He was telling me that, you know,
they the work doesn't stop. You can't stop maintaining and
spending the money on the camps and spending the money
on on all the infrastructure you need to get those
clients up there. You can't just leave it alone. UM.

(57:13):
And so you still have sunk cost with no income,
no revenue. UM. So it's a tough time for that industry,
your industry really well. I'll tell you this in UM
I hunted bear for the first time and like maybe
five years this year because the outfitters that I deal
with here in Quebec. We had no clients, and he
still ran all sixty five baits to keep it just

(57:34):
like you said, you mean, you got to keep it
consistent and keep it going. And you know, um the
owner called me up. He's like, you know, they lifted
the restrictions to travel, like for us, it was the
island of Montreal was the hardest hit. So for a
while there they didn't encourage us to leave the Island
of Montreal, you know what I mean. Um, So he's like, well,

(57:55):
they lifted that restriction, why didn't you come up? So
I went up and and I hunted bear and I
mean the guy kept his morale and his attitude was
was great. But he incured the same amount of costs
minus perhaps the food costs or um some of the
employee costs, but debating the gas the time it you know,

(58:16):
you can't just stop. You gotta keep it going. You
gotta up keep your your blinds and you gotta upkeep
your trails. And um. So that that's what happened here
and in Saskatchewan, um, where I do most of my
booking since two thousand and ten. Um, like clothes, like
you know, I'm going to invest the money for the

(58:37):
bird season and if we don't have it, well it'll
be an extra X amount of dollars in the red column,
and same one for the deer season. Um, and you know,
we were blessed, Thank the Lord. I put together a
couple of little meeting greets here in Montreal when I
saw that the American clients it wasn't gonna happen, and

(58:59):
I ended up booking like three weeks worth of waterfowl hunters,
which was really good. Um. He kept us busy and
we ended up selling all eight deer tags even though
we didn't have a single American client. We just you know,
we're we're booked solid with all the carryovers, and three

(59:20):
quarters of two has already booked up. As far as
deer hunting goes, I will say this and and it
shows I've always said, you know, like you go into
a hunting camp, and I think you and I have
have said this. You and I could have never met
and probably would have never crossed paths. You went to
hunting camp and a lot of times you build a bond,

(59:42):
you build friendships, you build relationships. I will say this
on those eight clients that had given deposits, some had
paid in full because a lot of the hunters they
pay in full at the end of their trip for
the following year. You know. Uh, not a one called
and said, well, would send me back my money? Too bad?
You know, we're conceling. Not one. They all said, we

(01:00:05):
want to do our part to keep you guys afloat,
keep the deposit, just transfer us over the next year,
which I found that very noble. Um. When you when
when you see people like they know a lot of
these businesses if if they lose that income one year,
a year and a half, they'll go out of business. Um.
So I found that really really cool. And I mean

(01:00:27):
we were blessed. We were blessed that we we still
we still sold eighty tags, um two Quebeckers. The owner
of my Saskatchewan outfit is from Montreal. Um, So you know,
I gave it an opportunity to eighty Quebeckers who wouldn't
normally have come hunt out west because we are booked
up with American clients every year. Gave them the opportunity

(01:00:47):
to come and experience it. And it was it was
still a pretty good season. We had a good time,
you know. Yeah. I mean that's the thing too, is
it's so for so many people, my dad included. I
don't book as many outfit a hunts, but I'm sure
you know, I sure would love to have the time
to do it. You know. That's such it's it's it's
a loss. There's like a sense of loss. People look
forward those trips every year to come with you guys

(01:01:09):
and to come up there and have those adventures. Um.
They look forward to getting out of town and and
le either loading up the truck drive across the border
or flying in and bringing their their firearms and their bows.
And they look forward to that. And so I think
a lot of it's the relationship, it's a sum of
it's also that you know, COVID took that away from him,
and they want to get it back as soon as possible.
You know, next year, I'm coming, no matter what, you know.

(01:01:30):
So I I've seen that, and of all the losses
of COVID, you know, certainly every hunting outfit or I
talked to has kind of said the same thing. Out
of Buddy and Kodiak that was telling me that he's
taken out more local folks than ever. Um, it's kind
of the same as you just said. So it's good
to see that that at some level, even though you
still have that sunken cost and these are not been

(01:01:50):
good times, it's still you know, marries up the fact
that people really need these outlets, They really need these
type of hunts that are out of town, that are
away from where they are, and and that are that
feel like adventure, no matter what, no matter what. It
was nice to see. You know, one of my fellow
guides in Saskatchewan, Nicholas, he had just purchased with his

(01:02:11):
wife a fishing camp in northern Saskatchewan, and you know,
it was going to be his first year of operation.
He was all excited and Covid like beat the ship
out of him, right. He lost all his clients, and
there too, he was, you know, like his clients were cool.
They they said, you know, we know you guys are
new in business. Not a one asked for their money back,

(01:02:33):
which it goes to say, I mean, you know, I'm Italian,
like you said, I'm old school. I look at these
things loyalty and stuff like that, and I just I
find it really really really nice to see, especially like
when you see all the bullshit in the world. You know,
it's nice to see people backing each other up like that.
I like that, you know, Yeah, well that's you know,

(01:02:54):
that's that's when I first met you. I'm like, you know,
this guy is he's got every all the characteristics of
the alliens. Yeah. Yeah, You're really stereotypical, is what you are.
You treat, but you treat people would respect, you have loyalty,
like you know, it just feels like that. That's when
you have that relationship. And like you said, when you
share hunting with somebody, it seems easier to get along.

(01:03:16):
It just seems like easier because you have a shared
value system, you kind of understand each other and you
like the same stuff. Um, that's a lot easier. M.
We always talked about having you on and it's probably
my fault more than anything, and for not having to
come and just talk, talk some ship and have a

(01:03:37):
good time. But you sent me a message recently, UM
with a pretty pretty impactful story. I guess it's it's
hard to describe it. I wasn't there. I don't know,
but I'm sure impactful is a good way to start
with it. UM. Something from a from a human perspective,
from a guide perspective, from a hunting perspective that you
hope never happens. Um, And I you know, hesitate to

(01:04:00):
force you to talk a whole lot about it, but
I know you want to share some stuff and there
was some learning. So if you want to give people
just kind of a rundown of what happened, and hopefully
we can talk about it and we can learn some
things from from the shop. Um. So my my my
main occupation. You know, I'm a real estate agent, but

(01:04:21):
I've been a waterfowl guide now for like five years
and I've been a waterfowl hunter for for twenty years.
I've been blessed. I've made some awesome relationships I've had,
I have some awesome mentors. Um. You know, here in Quebec,
I got a guy like Roger Glodzoo, who was like
a legend here. He's he's taught me in his own
way because his character is very special. Um. You know,

(01:04:46):
Bill Safe, I could pick up a phone and I'll
get a guy like like a guy like Tony Vandermore
who runs probably one of the biggest operations in the US.
He'll take the time to give you advice or talk
or whatever. Like it says a lot for me with
some of the relationships I've built over the years. Um.
And it also it also goes to show that a
lot of us, especially waterfowlers, I mean, we all do it.

(01:05:10):
We we we we look at stuff in in in
a light way many times that we don't realize sometimes
like the dangers or the risks that we take until
things hit home. Um. When I first started hunting with
with Bill Safe in New York. Bill does a a
speech every morning with his clients. And it doesn't matter

(01:05:32):
if you've find and I mean, Benny, you've been there,
you've heard this speech. I just had like a really
warm nostalgic moment when you said that dude's name, because
I haven't thought about him for a long time. But
what a wonderful guy man. Yeah, and I mean the
guy and he's he's he grew me up. You know,
he's known me since I'm a kid. And it doesn't
matter that he knows I guide, he knows I do

(01:05:53):
all this. I hear that speech every morning. If I
hunt with him five days in a row, I hear
it five days in a row and we laugh, you know,
like shoot a bird in the pocket and if you
fall off the boat. I mean, we all laugh about it,
but at the end of the day that that speech
hits home. And when I go waterfowl hunting here in Quebec,
even though I'm wearing waiters, and when I'm on the boat,

(01:06:16):
I'm maybe one of the only guys, or if you're
with one of the only guys that's wearing a life
jacket in that boat. I see the other guys. They
they take unnecessary risk. And when I guide for waterfowl
in Saskatchewan, um, I take the ten minutes every morning,
even if it's the same guys five days in a row,

(01:06:37):
and I go over the safety. You know, don't shoot
this way, don't do that, don't do this, don't do that.
And you know what most people, I want to say,
listen a lot, don't a lot laugh about it. Um,
And it's all funding games until unfortunately someone gets hurt
or worse. Um. You know, I've taken guys friends of

(01:06:59):
mine one thing that maybe shouldn't have been in the blind,
but because they're your friends, you say, well whatever, you know,
it's all good. And for the longest time, like my
biggest fear or my biggest speech was guys, whatever you
do don't shoot my dog because it's not you know,
it's not gonna go over too well with me. Um.
You know that because we don't think further than that, right.
So I came back from from guiding deers I was.

(01:07:22):
I was away for five weeks in Saskatchewan. I was
guiding deer hunters and I was itching to go on
a on a waterfall hunt. And like I said, I'm blessed.
I know a lot of really good guides here in Quebec.
I don't guide in Quebec. I don't have the time
or the where the resources to go and do it.
I live in the city. Um, so I just I book,
you know, those eight ten hunts locally here and then

(01:07:45):
I go with my friends. These guys have become my friends.
And this one particular morning he called me up. He's like, dude,
the snow geese are tight. You want to come in?
And he knew I wanted to get my dog, Maverick.
I wanted to try and get him up to a
thousand retrieves for the season. We're like right at nine.
So I'm like, yeah, okay, you know, it'll be fun
if you could get fifty sixty retrieves it will be good.

(01:08:05):
So I went and I went alone, myself and the dog,
and we were six guys that had never met each other. Um,
actually I'm lying. Two of them said they knew me
from a hunt last year. When he makes like you know,
the guys, they mix up groups. If you're two and
he has a group of three, they always try and
be six seven guys for it to be to be
worth the money to go out in the time. I

(01:08:27):
mean snow goose hunting here is uh, you do a
set up every morning and it could be like eight
nine a thousand, a thousand full body decoys. So it's
you don't want to do it in two guys, You're
you're happy when you're eight nine guys doing it. Um,
a great bunch of guys. You know. We all looked
at each other and we got in our blinds and
because of COVID, we're actually four or five ft apart

(01:08:50):
instead of being huddled one against the other, which is
kind of cool. It's comfortable. And I started to chatting
with the guy next to me, kind of Benny, like
you'll you'll know this thing. Like at one point I
looked at him and like, did we just become best friends.
Like the guy was super cool. We exchanged phone numbers
and Facebook and you know, like it just clicked and

(01:09:14):
and and it's really nice to see. Um. So Max,
the guide he does his speech, and it's funny because
you know, like there's certain things that he says his
speech in French, but if you translate him, it sounds
exactly what I say in English, or what Bill will
say or what you know. Um, but all of us,

(01:09:35):
you know, like we stress safety guys. You don't do this,
do this, do this, do this. And and then we
sat down and we started getting ready to hunt. Um So,
about a half hour in, I looked to my left
and I see a couple of smells coming and like
we're six guys in the blind and there's two gears

(01:09:57):
coming into decoy. And even though I been like five weeks,
I hadn't shot my gun. I knew my dog had
not retrieved in five weeks. So I kind of wanted to,
you know, just worry about him and not worry about
annihilating these two geese with six or seven of us
shooting at him. So I turned to the guy Dave

(01:10:17):
next to me, and I'm like, okay, dude, I'm gonna
I'm just gonna work the dog. I'm not even gonna
shoot on this. And he's like, yeah, okay, cool. So
when I died in Saskatchewan, we're not allowed we're not
allowed to shoot with the clients. So force of habit,
I get on my knees next to my dog and
I hold his collar. Um, you know, And I mean,

(01:10:37):
I don't want to sound like an asshole, because there's
always that one guy who will shoot a bird in
the decoys or whatever. And if my dog is running
around in there, like I said, I don't want anybody
shooting my dog, you know what I mean. Um. So
I'm holding Maverick and I'm watching these two birds. I'm
watching these two birds and like boom boom boom boom
boom boo boom, the guns are going off and I'm

(01:10:58):
hearing behind me, I'm hearing no no. So I'm laughing.
I go, look at these guys. I would have, you know,
and not because I'm better than anybody, but they were
just they were to my right. I would have got
up and it would have been boom boom and it
would have been finished. I go, seven guys, only one
bird felt so I opened the door and I sent
my dog. Right During all this shooting, I had felt
like a bit of commotion behind me. I didn't really

(01:11:20):
pay much attention to it, because you know the force
of habit, you know, during the waterfall season, I do
this every day. As I stand up, I turned around and, um,
you do like I did like a double take, you know.
I looked, and I looked again, and I didn't see Dave.
I didn't see him. He wasn't next to me anymore.

(01:11:41):
But I did see the third guy. And the third
guy is like sitting on his key stirt and he's
staring at me with this look of horror. And I'm like,
what I mean. I don't know if I could swear
in here, but I said, what the fund just happened?
I turned around and I see Dave is laying flat
on his face, and like, I froze for a split second,

(01:12:06):
and I jumped up and I'm screamed to the guide.
I'm like, dude, call nine one one. This is not good.
He gets up. As he's dialing nine one one, He's
running out of the field because I'm gonna get my truck.
I'm gonna get my truck. I jumped down. I call
nine one one on my phone and and um, another
one of the guys comes over and I says, do it.
Hold on my phone and I'm trying to I'm trying

(01:12:28):
to see, like did he just get hit in the
head or whatever. And the gentleman next to me and
he's like, I fell, I fell. My gun went off.
My gun went off. I fell, And and I guess
in in in the moment, you're trying to understand what
this guy is saying. But at the same time, I
was trying to look at what's wrong with Dave, um,

(01:12:51):
because you know, this is not something you expect to
happen anyway. Um. I look on the back of Dave's jacket.
I don't see any blood anywhere, and I'm like, maybe
he got hit in the head. I mean, I had
my back to all of this because I was on
my knees, you know, UM, handling my dog. Nine one

(01:13:12):
one comes on. I started talking with and and when
you call it one on, I guess it's an operator
at first for us here and go back, and uh
so I'm like, dude, I go I'm trying to feel
for a pulse. I can't feel for a pulse. There's
no blood. I mean, I don't I don't know what's
going on. And he's like, is this a hunting accident?
And I must saying yeah. He goes okay because the
the other guide was on the phone. I guess they were.

(01:13:32):
The two dispatchers were one next to each other, so
that he was aware of what was going on, so
he transferred me over to a paramedic. Um. So Dave
is lying next to me on his on his stomach.
I'm trying to feel for a pulse. I don't feel
for a pulse, and there's there's no blood. It's not
like in the movies. And he's not talking or moving

(01:13:54):
at all at this point, like he's just totally lifeless. Right,
And on the back of his jacket, I see three holes.
But again, we all watched movies and you know the
blood spraying everywhere. There's none of that. So I'm still
hopeful that he just got hit in the head with
the barrel of a gun when this this other gentleman
fell right. Um, I mean, Benny, you knew me when

(01:14:18):
I was fat, I was I was a bigger guy then. Um,
So just just to pointing, you know, and adrenaline. Uh,
this guy, Dave was bigger than I was, and I
was on my knees and I don't know how I
did it, but I lifted him up and I just
turned him over onto his back. At wish point, I

(01:14:38):
saw that, you know, like he had like a big
blood but coalgulated blood in his nose and his tongue
was sticking out, and the nurses trying to walk me
through this. So I mean, I clean out his nose.
This poor bustard has any chance to fucking breathe. He's
not gonna breathe with his nose jammed up like. So
I cleaned out his nose and try and put his
tongue back in his mouth, and I started, I started

(01:15:00):
doing CPR on him, and you know, my hats off
to that paramedics. She she stayed on the phone with
me and like she was counting and I was counting,
and um, I don't know how long. This went on
for maybe ten minutes. And all the while I would,
you know, I would do three sessions and check for

(01:15:21):
a pulse, three sessions and check for a pulse in
three sessions. Anyway, Um, when the cops, the cops finally arrived.
They they they took over. It's you know that part.
They don't let you stay around and assist them. They
grab you and they moved out of the way. Yeah. Um.
And then you know, the paramedics showed up and they

(01:15:42):
tied him up to a defibrillator and they tried to
revive them. But at that point, just like I had,
I had seen when when I first took his pulse,
he wasn't breathing. But my, my, my actions, I was
told after the fact by by all the police officers
and the paramedics, UM, and even the investigators after the fact,

(01:16:07):
my my ten minutes of pumping on his chest had
at least given him a fighting chance to maybe be defibrillated.
You know, yeah, did did you feel, I mean, when
you flipped them over, did you see like was their
trauma on his chest? Is that where that the shot
went through? Was it all in his face or the
shot from how I from how I was explained when

(01:16:31):
the guy so after the fact that just just I'll
go forward and then I'll go back, just to give
you an idea after the fact, after c S I,
we'll call him c S I, because they were there
the old fucking day, and they barred us from getting
our stuff. His gun, believe it or not, even though
they had investigated, his gun still had a fucking shell

(01:16:53):
in it. So he had gotten two shots off. And
what I think happened is the guy next to him
either and I, like I said, I didn't see it,
so I'm gonna assume either as he was standing up
had his safety off and when he fell back, had
his finger on the trigger and shot, or as he

(01:17:15):
shot he lost his footing and he shot him like
right straight under his shoulder blade. And at that distance.
The reason there was no blood is I mean he
took the whole blunt of the shot, the wad everything
went in and basically almost like sealed the hole as
it went in. That's why there was no blood. Um.

(01:17:36):
And I guess like when you when you when your
lung shot a deer or whatever and you find him
the all the blood is sticking out of his nose
and his tongue is dangling out. Well, that's exactly what
it looked like. H um. And uh yeah, So that
poor man, that poor man he kept you know, while

(01:17:57):
I was doing the the CPR. He you know, is
he alive? Is he alive, and it was just that
he's an older man. You know, I don't want this
fucking guy to get even have a heart attack and
and and die. And you see he's in like he's
in shock, you know. I mean, I'm not better than
anybody else. But but we were seven guys there, and
I was the only guy that that was on him.

(01:18:18):
You know, um that that everyone else was handling it
the way you handle yourself during during trauma. But like
I said, I mean that, you know, in life, you've
got a man up. You do you do man ship
when it's time to be a man. And I've always
I've always lived my life like that. I'm not gonna
let you know my fears or whatever or my disgustedness

(01:18:41):
of COVID or worried about getting a little blood stopped
me from helping somebody. Never never, never, never, it will
never happen. I just assumed not be alive if I
have to live my life that way. Um. So that
poor man when when the cops came, he just he
collapsed and they rushed him to the hospital too. You know,
m he's dead, but that this other guy is his

(01:19:03):
life is never going to be the same accident. It
was a accident. Like the cops, they they bring you
in and you know it's they do their their whole spield.
They gotta they got a job to do. And I
caught two really good cops and I kept my kept
my composure for for most of the interview. But at
one point, you know, I guess it affected me as well.

(01:19:24):
Right Ah, my friends that hunt with me, Like when
you hunted with me, you sat next to me right
so up until I called my friend Seragio, who up
until ten o'clock the evening before, canceled on me. Um
Sergio usually is the one who stands right next to me,

(01:19:45):
and and I'm like, fuck, this could have been you,
or it could have been Josh, could have been my son.
How the fund do I call? How do I call
your wife and tell her this happened because I invited
your husband on a hunt? You know what I mean? Well,
going back to what you were saying about how to
act in this, I don't think anybody really knows how

(01:20:06):
they're gonna respond to something like this, But I would
want you there if I could pick you know, if
I had, if I had a top five, I would
You'd be in there. So I mean, I think that
guy was lucky to have have you there, even though
he didn't make it. Um on that level. But I
guess the other the other point is like that is

(01:20:27):
I mean it It makes me stop and pause because
we talk. We've talked on this show, and we've talked
within our company about uh wilderness medicine. We just did
a book about survival, right, We did a book about
how to survive in in you know, far flung places
or in when you're alone. But we rarely talk about
and this happens in other types of of bird hunting

(01:20:49):
as well, upland hunting. As you well know, this is
a thing. You know, you're walking in line with a
bunch of guys with shotguns. Um, here you're in close
quarters with a bunch of shotguns and a bunch of
individuals you don't know, and there's a certain level of trust.
Accidents happen. But boy, this is man, this is that's tough.
Even without ever meeting Dave or or knowing him, it's

(01:21:11):
tough for me to hear man is a hunter knowing
this is this, this could happen. Um, it happens more
than we'd like it to. It does and you know, um,
my friend who who is the guide. It's funny how people,
you know, some people are just any excuse to to
shoot on you or whatever. Since then, I haven't really

(01:21:35):
heard much buzz, but like on some of our our
local social media pages or whatever, you know, you'll hear
you always hear that that stupid comment. Well, it's the
guide and this guide is absolutely probably, if not in
my opinion, the best waterfowl guide in Quebec and security wise,

(01:21:55):
he does everything by the book. I try and and
and and be the same way. When I'm in Saskatchewan,
Bill does it when he is there. Claudio will do it.
In Alberta. H an accident happens. Man. Unfortunately we were
involved in a sport or an activity where our accidents
don't forgive um. That evening, when I got home and

(01:22:18):
I called Clothe, my boss and Saskatchewan, he was still
he was still in camp. I needed I needed to
talk to him about a couple of things, and you know,
I wanted to bring him up to speed because for
sure someone was going to call and tell him that
I was there and involved. I made a point to
tell him, I'm like, you know what, dude, I don't
care how much money they pay next year. I truly don't.

(01:22:40):
And if you're my client and you're hearing this, I'm sorry,
I don't care how much money you pay if you
don't have the the head, or the intelligence or the
decency to listen and to try and be safe. When
you're in a blind with three, four or five other people,
you yourself, you could be your family member. Then you

(01:23:03):
know what, get back in your car, go away from
me in the car, and we'll refund your money if
you want to go home. But there ain't no Mallard.
As much as I live killing Millards. Ain't no Millard
worth my life or my dog or yours or anybody
else's for that matter. Um and and and it's unfortunate.
It takes something like this to open your eyes as onto,

(01:23:26):
you know, to being secure and being safe. I went
on my my after the fact that I told my
wife I wasn't gonna go hunting anymore. And I mean,
you know, Rosa, she's as tough as they come, as
far as wives go. Or she backs me up and
everything I want to do. And so she was relieved,
like she wasn't she was scared when I called her

(01:23:46):
that day, and like everyone else, she thought something happened
to Maverick. And when I told her no, unfortunately, some
other guys paid the price for an accident. Like she
was in panic. Um. I got invited on a hunt
and I and I ended up going with another another
guide and it was with some guys that I hunted
with before, so it put me a little bit. Maybe

(01:24:08):
it made my getting back into it a little bit easier,
right because I know the guy next to me is
it's very, very aware of his surroundings and doesn't take needless,
needless chances. And then like last week was the first
time I went back on a hunt in one of
those a frame style blinds, like where that accident happened,

(01:24:29):
and the guy who invited me knew and he forced
me to go. He goes, you need to get back
on track and back. So he sat next to me
and he put his hand on my shoulder and it
was like it was you know, it was I know,
I know we're all big, tough guys, but I'm here
if if there's anything, and I'm like, no, no, this
will be okay. And you know that you could be

(01:24:52):
as tough as you want, but that that transition to
get back into. It's important that you do it if
you want to keep doing it, but it's import you
do with the right people. And uh, you know, like
life is short and could be taken at any time,
and as water fowlers, as hunters, as a small game hunters,

(01:25:12):
deer hunters. I've heard stories of guys shooting because they
saw a bush move, like Jesus Christ. Is that dear
worth having that on your conscience forever? You know, Well,
there's certain types of these accidents that we focus on,
whether it's just because of frequency or you know, you

(01:25:33):
talk about places like Wisconsin, in Michigan, there's always a
handful of people that that die in hunting accidents. You know,
in the opening day a rifle season like this is
a it happens. I don't have numbers in my head.
I don't have a list of statistics here, but it happens.
We hear about it, we know it, especially here at
this company. We we try to address it when we can.

(01:25:55):
Um but this, you know, when you told me about this,
I have always said of folks around me, I'm always
more worried about safety in a duct blind. I don't
think duck blind was at the top, but I think
in an upland situation was always my top worry. When
you're walking around and birds can flush any direction and
people might not know you're there, even if you're wearing orange,
even if you're communicating. When you're walking in aligned with

(01:26:17):
someone and there's so much unknown, you really have to
trust that person beside you, um, you know, to be
as as sound as they can. Um. It's waterfowl season
in many many places here, Like I said, we were
just out, you know, hunting geese and doing things and
this when you told me this, it just made me
think that my life, my son's life, these things I

(01:26:39):
could not imagine being on either end of this obviously, um,
and even your end of it. What it would make
you think about what, you know, what's worth and and
strangely enough, as you as you mentioned there, man, like
in a time of COVID, it kind of makes you
think about because we're all thinking about death a little
more than we used to. There's a ticker on the
news that says how many people are dying of a thing,

(01:27:00):
you know, um, And so we're all kind of thinking
about our immortality a little bit. Then a little more
than normal when something like this happens. I'm sure that
that's unavoidable, you know, has to be. And it's just
what do you do next? You know, how can you
prevent this from happening again and be an agent of
change to make sure maybe you do save someone's life
just by giving a speech and being really serious about

(01:27:20):
it next time. Maybe maybe someone's life to save. Maybe not,
but um, you certainly, you certainly have a chance. Well
I agree with you. UM, I believe you know, when
it's your time, it's your time. That's why that's about
to tell my wife so she should leave me alone

(01:27:41):
when I wanted to go back out. Um, this is
you know, I could leave the house today and get
it by a car and it's your timement's your time.
But having said that, we need to put a lot
more emphasis on on being safe. Usually in those a frames,
it's usually way safer than when when we when we

(01:28:02):
hunt in coffins, um, layoff lines and you know, I mean, look,
it happened. I hope to god it never happens to
anybody ever again, will it? Probably? Unfortunately? Um, But you know,
if you you got to try and put as as

(01:28:24):
as as much on your side as possible by by
making people aware. You take your safety when you're standing up,
you know, and make sure your footing is sure. If
you've never shot a gun with a three and a
half inch magnum before and don't know what kind of
recoil you're gonna get that I've seen it put guys
back on their on their asses after they shoot, you know. Um,

(01:28:46):
all of these factors help. Is it foolproof? No, it's not.
It'll you know, it'll never be. But I know that
for myself and for a lot of the guys around me. Um,
I'm taking this very very tragic event and and I'm
gonna turn it as positive as I can, especially when

(01:29:10):
I'm I'm with clients, and you know, believe me, I'd
rather to be angry with me for yelling at him
for clicking their safety off, then learn forbid shooting the
guy or you know what I mean, or hurting or
I'd much rather they be angry with me and then
have to live with that. You know. Yeah, there's nothing
worth that too. And when you think, when I think

(01:29:32):
over my waterfowl hunting experience, I've been in pitlines on
the edge of marshes that in the in the in
January or December, where everything's frozen. The metal rails are frozen.
You have waiters on that you just jumped in the
water to go pull some some decoys. They get slippery.
You have to lean your gun up against a metal rack,

(01:29:54):
and if it doesn't have something, uh something that holds
your gun, it can slide where the other. You know,
trigger control is essential. I've shot I've been in uh
you know, roving boat blinds, hunting sea ducks, in in
on the edge of the Potomac River. Um. I've been
in layout blinds in the middle of the channel in

(01:30:14):
Maine where I'm floating there by myself. Uh So I
start to like replay all of those scenarios, and each
of them has their its own, um, cautionary tale in
terms of what might happen if you don't understand trigger
control and you don't understand when that safety has to
be on, and even beyond that, you're putting yourself into
in a relatively dangerous situation. Um. And it's just good

(01:30:37):
to recognize that. I think if people can hear your
story and just recognize, yes, we don't want to think
about the danger in these situations. We want to have
a good time, but man, like some level of awareness,
you know, some intense level of awareness of what is
actually happening there, even though it's fun and exciting and intense,
is so important. It's it's you know. And never let

(01:30:58):
that social pressure of being, like you said, yelling at
your clients for being the dickhead and the blind. Never
let that social pressure stop you from um speaking up
or or acting the way that you feel as the safest. Look.
There's there's a guide the guides with the guides here
in Quebec. His name is Dmitri, and he huntsled with
me a lot all the time. And when he used

(01:31:19):
to see me and Steve with our our life jackets
on in the morning, and I used to tell him, Dmitri,
you should wear a life jacket. And they finally, after
all this last season, he started wearing his life jacket
even when we when we get off the big boat
and go onto the little boat. And one morning this
year he looked at me and he was like, you
know what, bro, because I'm so glad I listened to you.
I go why he goes, because I zigged when I

(01:31:41):
should have zagged with the boat the other day, and
the boat flipped over, and it was a part of
the march that was a little too deep, and that
life jacket just kept me afloat enough to to to
to wait those ten feet to get to where I
could have got out. He goes, all I thought of
was you. I'm like, wow, I don't know, bro, you

(01:32:01):
got You're on a boat. I mean, I swim very well,
but not with not with waiters and twenty pounds of
almo in my pockets, and I don't swim. I don't
know anybody who could swim well in that situation, you
know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, there's so much, so
you just like you can review all that in your mind.
But I appreciate you sharing it. I understand that. You know,
I don't want to make light of anything that happened there.

(01:32:22):
We want to just kind of tell the story, let
people learn from it. Um. Like you said, accidents happen
and to people's lives, and at some level, your life
is to be changed for a long time. And uh,
it's just that's unfortunate, but it's you know, I appreciate
you sharing because I do think people can learn something
from it and as we talked about it in the
very beginning. I'm teaching a young boy to understand the outdoors,

(01:32:44):
and um, you know, stories like this are key to
helping him and me understand that process, um, you know,
and when to have heightened sense and when to relax.
And man, that's a tough that's a tough equation. But this,
this is helpful. Yeah, for sure. If I could tell
people or anybody like you know guides, I mean, all

(01:33:05):
of us we have that that attitude like uh, take
off of the boat in the middle of the night,
no lights on and don't worry and we're good. It
takes a little thing, buddy, to bring your to bring
reality back into perspective. And yeah, you know, not, like
I said, I'm not perfect, far from it. I'm sure

(01:33:27):
I've done things that if I if I really sit
down and analyze it, or like maybe that was if
he shouldn't have I shouldn't have took that shot, or
I shouldn't have spun around in the blind and shot
him back, or you know what I mean. But we've
got to try and control the controllable to some degree.
And I think, um like footing or how you control
your gun or hold your gun. That's controllable stuff. You know,

(01:33:51):
when you load your gun is a big one too.
You know, then you keep your action open. You know,
when it's closed, whether it's in battery or not. Like
understanding those little little moments and in hunting can be
can be a life or death thing at the end
of the day. So the pressure should be on us
to do it right and to understand that we need
to hold others to account at some level. Right, it's

(01:34:12):
hard to be. Like you said, the social pressure is real.
You don't want to be the dude, you know, telling
your friends to quit this and quit that. And you
know that's a hard thing to do sometimes. And I
recognize that. So when it's your friends, when it's your friends,
it's the hardest, just the hardest, man, it really is.
And that's that's and and you know what that's when
something is going to go wrong when it's your friends. Yeah, yeah,

(01:34:33):
so that's that's good man. Well, I appreciate it. I
definitely we were talking about the other day. I definitely
want to make it up Skatchewan man. I'd love to
make it back to quell back and uh then hunt
bears either way. Um, where can people find your your
guiding and and what do you want to tell them
about that part of it? Well, listen, I'm you know,
I'm I'm on social media Armando and Ditozi on on

(01:34:56):
Facebook or Safari Dude on Instagram. UM. The outfit I
guide for is called Great Great outfit Ter um or
Western Trophy. They both linked to each other. Benny, you
know you're for sure coming up this year. As soon
as they opened those borders, we've we It's been five

(01:35:16):
years that we haven't hunted together, and we're do you
We're we're do. We're do for a good heart to heart.
The last one we had was in Vegas on those
awesome chairs when you worked at Yet. Do you remember
those chairs were just like I just you know you
go through like traiteous season and that that those chairs
could save a man's life. Yeah, Rosa really wanted those chairs.

(01:35:39):
She really wanted them. I don't get as many free
chairs as I used to. Yeah, man, you know, hopefully
we can I record all my heart to hearts now,
hopefully you can get get together in camp and man,
I would love to see your family again and spend
some time up there. Man. I, like I said, I'm
grateful that you came on and it's been too long,

(01:36:01):
and um man, best your family until to those involved
in that tragedy. Tragedy, I wish you weren't here to
talk about that, um and that wasn't kind of the ending.
But just anybody out there, if you want to, you'll
go with a wonderful person who values the outdoors the
way that I do. And you all do this. This
guy right here we're talking to is is one of

(01:36:22):
the tops in the in the outdoors or just in
the in Canada, but it doesn't matter where. Uh. He
can speak French to you, he can quote step brothers
to you. He can do anything you need. Armando, All right,
Armando man, we'll talk to you soon. I really really

(01:36:43):
thank you for coming on and telling stories. Bro, this
was awesome, you know. Uh. For for those that want
to know more about Benny and before he had hair
on his chest, you can look me up. I'll be
glad to share some stories. Uh. No, seriously, but thank you.
That's a danger this proposition. I'm so happy for you
and and how far you've come in this life. Uh,

(01:37:04):
and I'm grateful to have been a part of it,
and I look forward to many more adventures together. Buddy.
Hopefully I get drawn to come to the Montana and
kill an elk this year with you. But you're for
sure coming to Quebec, so you've at either Quebec or
likely Saskatchewan. We'll have some fun there. I want you
to meet clothed and we'll kill birds and go catch

(01:37:25):
some fish and we'll have a good time. Uh. And
until then, God bless you, buddy, get my best to
the wife and the kids, and we'll talk again soon. Yeah,
right back at your man to see you later. That's it.

(01:37:46):
That's all another episode in the books. Thank you to
Armando into Tozie for sharing himself a little bit and
also his story his tragedy from the duck Blind. Like
as I said before we heard it, Um, it was uncomfortable,
it was, but it was important. Um. And I'm sad

(01:38:07):
for the family of the man who died, and I'm
sad for everyone involved, but we can all learn from it.
So let's just do that. And Um, over the next
couple of weeks, we're gonna be really putting some nails
in the Phil's first hunt. We're gonna like figure out

(01:38:27):
exactly what it's gonna be we're gonna set some dates.
We're gonna stick to it. Phil, We're not gonna let
We're not gonna let all the pressures in our life
of family and job get in the way of your
first hunting adventures. So, um you ready? I am ready
see that? All right? Well, I expect it's the next
week on the show. I'll expect to be playing some
sort of voicemail from Eric Hall encouraging this and given

(01:38:51):
us ideas. We're gonna need you. Eric, call anybody else
in the cult that we al kay Cock, anybody listening really, um,
Mike Peterson, all of our beloved, beloved THHC members please
help us out here. Um. Well, before he gets to
the end of the show, I um, I have a
new favorite song, Phil. You've heard it? I have, yeah.

(01:39:12):
Christopher Peters wrote in UM that he's a long time listener,
first time writer. I just wanted to share with you
this song as I thought you may enjoy the subject matter.
The song is called White Claw, Wasted and des by
one of my favorite artists named Kayla Ray the song
He linked it below. He also said, for for Phil,
I didn't start hunting until I was an adult. I
was twenty one, nine years ago. I think you're going

(01:39:35):
to enjoy it, and I can't wait to hear about
your first hunt. Thanks for a consistently great show, Chris Peters,
Thanks Chris, uh white Claw Wasted. I listened to it. Phil,
you listen to it. I got it. I have an
idea I don't. I'm sure Kayla Ray does not listened
to this show. I am sure of it. I'm surprised
that anyone does. But Kaylea, if you're listening, and I'm

(01:39:55):
gonna send you all kinds of messages on every platform.
Me and Phil very much wants you just sing the
new theme song, the one theme song four the Hunting
Collector for t HC. We we want you to. We
want to write original song and have you sing it.
It would be glorious. All you listeners could could get
involved in this. I needed to be Kayla Ray, so

(01:40:18):
we we're gonna respect her and wait for her to
to jump on board with this idea. But Phil is
gonna play for you a little bit of white Claw
Wasted on the way out um of this episode. So
I guess we'll see you next week for episode one
sixty one. Enjoy a little bit of white claw wasted.
Because you can't judge a man by the size of
his can. Phil you really can't say bye goodbye. He's

(01:40:44):
are going to get white clone wasted. It's a hard
silch or not boody. He can just taste it. Kate
June's are hard on a white clone man by the
size of his kate. He knows all the black punk's
greatest hits it up the girls when you're working for

(01:41:06):
just the tipsy isn't what he can because he's a
white cloone man. He don't overcompensate with no told boy
that wouldn't be very fair, and all boys holding hands
with his cane. He's a white cloone man and he's

(01:41:30):
gonna get white cloon wasted. It's a hard selt or not,
but he can just taste it. He can't judge the
herd on a white clow man by the size of
his cane. The maid lies around his as judge approve
of better clothes gone by, but he'll do it again.

(01:41:56):
He's a white clone man and it's gonna get white
clone waist. It's hard self or not, but he can
just taste it. Don't judge your hard on a white
clone man by the size of his cane. Say you
can't judge the herd on a white clone man by

(01:42:19):
the size of his cave.

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Ep. 160: The Year of the New Hunter, Phil Learns Gun Safety, and a Tragedy in the Duck Blind with Guide Armando Vendittozzi

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