Ep. 162: Hate Listeners Unite, Ammo Shortages Going Long, and Welcoming 8.4 Million New Gun Owners with RECOIL's Iain Harrison

On this week's episode, Ben learns that Phil's dad is in the CIA, we welcome hate listeners, hear Phil's perspective on guns, and start working on a new theme song for THC. Next up, RECOIL's Iain Harrison joins the show to talk about the current ammo shortage, race and gun control, and more. 

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:12):
I guess I grew up a row. Hey everybody, welcome
to episode one, six two of The Hunting Collective. I
am Benjamin Patrick O'Brien, the first Philip Engineer, PHILIPPI engineer.
What's your dad's name? Philip? Is it also Philip? No?
It is Troy Troy Troy Taylor. Is he also an engineer? No,

(00:37):
he's not. What's he do for a living? Ah? He
like helps do security for banks, Like not like a
security guard, but he sits in office and watches cameras
and like organizes. I honestly don't really know. I've asked
him about three or four times. Every time he explains it,
I get more confused. So Phil's dad is in the
c I A. I mean, honestly, it's probably that's why.

(01:00):
That's why I've never gotten a straight answer. Yeah, that
seems like a cover for something, something big time. But
we got a lot of get to today, so we
won't rush. We want to daddle on on family issues.
Feels misunderstanding with father's life, um, but we have a
lot to announce. First, I talked to our friend. You
remember the White claw you can't Judge and whack claw Man?

(01:23):
Remember that of course, yeah, lovely everybody did there. A
lot of people wrote in, a lot of people loved it,
a lot of people went and sought out Kayla Ray
and her music. I spoke to her via the Instagram
d M s that she's very excited about working with
us on a song for th HC. So now we
just gotta get creative, philm. Well, everybody, here's the thing, Ben,
You've gotten so many poems over the you know, the

(01:45):
the last couple of years that are honestly better than
anything either of us could write. So what I'm thinking is,
I mean, you love a good contest. How don't we
get a contest for the th HC theme song? You know,
like lyrics, lyrics for the theme song, and then Kayla Ray,
well we'll sing them. Oh that's a good idea, phil Um.

(02:09):
And and she would also write the music obviously as well.
You have you have confidence that the listenership can turn this,
turn this in because this would last forever, and it
will probably, but we have to put it on iTunes
and it probably would rise quickly in the charts, and
I probably would be too big for the show and
then leave. But if you if you trust the listeners Phil,

(02:30):
because you often don't trust the listeners. But if you
trust them, I'll go with you. I trust, I trust
them to write a stupid poem that makes a joke
about like Barry Gilbert and Eric Hall or something like.
That's what I trust now could do perfect limited trust.
It's not full trust, but created in this In this case,
creative trust exists between you and the listenership. Okay, uh, well,

(02:53):
give me some time to figure out the the ins
and outs this year contest. But everybody out there, start
thinking of your lyrics for the new th C theme song,
sung by none other than Kayla ray A lovely voice.
Lovely voice apparently knows a little bit about this show
and is a fan of its many maginations. So we'll

(03:15):
get we'll move on last week's show, Phil, Did you
get to listen to the interview of Miles with Miles
Nulte last week or the conversational Miles Nulty about media
and the division and polarization and what to do next?
I did what I always want to go to you first,
because I have, as you might imagine, tons reams of

(03:36):
inner like reaction emails D M. S H. I was
told I needed to log back on the Instagram, and
I did and read some messages and then read some
reviews of the podcast that were not so nice, and um,
I wanted to just pick you pick your brain first
before I get into what I want to say. But

(03:57):
I want to pick your brain into what you thought
about last week and and what you think about you know, well,
here's here's the funny thing. I mean, I don't. I
don't have a whole lot to add because I think
Miles covered I mean, it's weird because the more I
get to know Miles and spend time with him, when
I realized we're on the same page about like things.
So it was funny because we recorded the intro to
last week's episode before I heard your Guys conversation, and

(04:21):
it was funny that I just heard Miles kind of
say exactly what I said in in in the intro.
And I mean, I mean, that's that's that's pretty much it.
It's like, it's it's I just don't it's it's hard
not to be pessimistic about the whole thing. It's just
it's tough, um with with the kind of you know,
the kind of like market we have in this country

(04:42):
that drives everything like like, you know, sensationalism, Uh speaks
a lot louder than you know the reason I suppose,
So yeah, it does, it does and will continue to
do so. UM, I figure we spend a little bit
of time for you in today's topic, and it's a
good one talking about the reactions specifically to this this podcast.

(05:08):
Now we'll give you a minute. If you didn't listen
to one six one, go go ahead and give you minutes,
go back and listen, and we're back. Thanks for taking
that time to listen to Miles Nulty. It's Nulty, not
Nulte Nulty. And I go through that topic and fill
and I rip it up a little bit about it too.
But of all of the reaction, the thing that I

(05:30):
took out of it is because this is you know,
it's not a small sample size. Plenty of people reacted
to last week's email or last week so I'm sorry.
Last week's podcast it lined out one thing for me.
I love you guys. And when I say you guys
and gals, I mean like the real listeners of th HC,

(05:51):
not the people that only listen every once in a while,
but the people that follow along with us, that are
entrenched in this show and for whatever reason, um because
the t C email inbox t C at the media
dot Com for me is an island of sanity in
a sea of insanity. If I if I look at

(06:12):
like the thoughtfulness, the constructive nature of the emails that
I got on this subject, plenty of people saying that
they disagree with my my political choice and who I
voted for, but respected my right to make that choice
and wanted to kind of talk me into their points

(06:32):
of view, several points of view. All of that stuff
felt like it was people that respected each other, people
that were seeking mutual respect, and and so I'd say
thank you for for that. I can't say that about
what's outside of the th C email inbox, but I
definitely can't say that what's in it. You remember Greg Morrise,

(06:53):
phil Or Buddy Greg Hilarious Fella, the little prank Colin
um Or. Earlier last year he wrote me an email
that said, Hey, Ben, I was really into cinnamon rolls
the last couple of months. My wife and I would
bake some when we had the time, but recently have
been into grapefruits. They say grape fruits have a lot
of positive qualities, like preventing diabetes. But I haven't looked

(07:16):
into that research. I figured you needed a break from
all the other ship you've been reading in your inbox
after last episode your friend Greg Morris, So, in honor
of Greg, I'd like to feel for you to rank
grape fruits and cinnamon cinnamon buns in descending order. What's
what do you? Uh? Here's the thing about grape fruit.

(07:40):
I love the battle, I love the taste of grapefruit.
But man, they are they are bitter, bitter as hell.
I like that's why you always see you know, there's
a you eat like half a great fruit with a
spoon and some like sugar sprinkled on top. I think
that's a tasty snack. I like my fruit to be
able to be enjoyed on its own, though, and for me,
eat fruit is not enjoyable on its own. It needs

(08:04):
a little help. But but I'm a fan cinnamon rolls um.
You know, besides being incredibly unhealthy, are are just one
of the greatest tasting things on this planet. Uh. Shout
out to whoever invented the cinnamon roll um. You're a legend.
Some people might say that the fact that there's a
grapefruit spoon is a detraction from the grapefruit. I say no,

(08:27):
I say it for there to be for people want
to eat to want to eat grape fruit so much
that they created a specific tool to do so. That
little kind of serrated edge in that little spoon means
that there's some higher cultural value with the grapefruit. And
I feel like too many people are polarized on grapefruits.
Cinnamon buns is something we can all get behind, but grapefruits,

(08:49):
grapefruits are are have been long been in our culture
um subject of debate, and so I'd like to end
that debate right now. I say grapefruits over cinnamon rolls
or cinnamon buns, whatever you want to call them, because
there's no cinnamon bun spoon that I'm aware of. And
that's my final arts nothing more. I'll hear nothing more

(09:12):
of it. I'm not open to criticism, I'm not open
to a conversation and on this, on this point, there
is no nuance. The grapefruit is the champion. But anyway,
getting back to the last week, UM, every single email
that that we got in that email inbox, including that
one from Greg, was was constructive I can't say that

(09:34):
as much for some social media spots. I checked iTunes.
We had a couple of one star reviews. Phil, I know,
I know this hurts you, and I know this, and
it's it's early in the week. This might ruin your week.
But I'm gonna I'm gonna just kind of read a
little bit of what was there. If it's okay. I
can't wait to hear this living on golf too, al right,

(09:56):
like the fact that this is I have no respect
for somebody's living on golf two, Like there was another
person living on the golf anyway, living on golf two.
On iTunes, he said he can't bring himself to support
our podcast any further and that, uh, I was weak
to vote for Joe Biden and go with the status quos.
Weak Texas Moose Hunter says he has unsubscribing deleting the

(10:20):
podcast and he can't support someone who supports Biden and
his socialist agenda. Um, you know that it hurts slings
and arrows of social media. I mean, it hurts so much.
But I would say, Phil, don't you believe that these
folks have the right to leave, come and go as
they please. Please see you know, close the door on

(10:41):
your way out. Yeah, but I would say, uh, if
I haven't made this clear or the last couple of
three years of doing this podcast, I just do it now.
If you can't stay in to listen to someone that
has a different ideology, political affiliation, religion, whatever, something that
difference from your own, it's gonna be a tough road
here at the age promise. But what I would say

(11:02):
is a solution for living on the Gulf too in Texas,
Smooth Uner is you could hate listen? Why wouldn't you
hate listen? Phil? I would like to promote hate this
podcast as a hate listening podcast. We would love if
you hate us. We want you to listen. I mean
we're you know, I can often compare myself as the

(11:23):
Howard Stern of hunting Phil. I mean Phil agrees, right, Phil? No, Yeah,
just just as influential. Yeah, way shorter, not not as
curly hair, but everything else similar. Uh my wife is blond.
But anyway, you know, everybody knows that you should love
your enemies and you should listen to your enemies podcasts

(11:46):
because this podcast will bring out the best in you.
So don't simply walk away from this show. Oh, Ben,
I just want to I just want to say this,
This argument about hate listening holds as much water as
as your grape fruit argument, which is just a not
not a lot of water, which means I'll see no,
which means I'm right, can I I just I just

(12:06):
want to say that I hate follow people like a
couple of people on Twitter and Instagram, and no, like
I it does feel good effemarily, I think it's unhealthy. Uh.
For a different opinion that says that, you know, if

(12:28):
you don't want to listen to the show anymore, then
please don't please listen to it if you don't. What
else would like to say, just to be just have
a phil is sincere moment um very very quickly. But
like before the election, you and I had a like
a conversation or two off Mike, brief conversations about politics

(12:48):
and who we were planning on voting for. And the
first time we had that conversation, you told me you
were planning on voting for Trump, and I'm not gonna lie.
It was incredibly disheartening. At the same time, Oh, I mean,
I mean, you tell me if I'm wrong. I like
you probably like saw my reaction and that it wasn't

(13:09):
you know, it was not positive, but I don't think.
But then we had we I proceeded to just like
ask you why, and I told you reasons why, uh
why I voted the way that I was going to vote.
You told me reasons why. And we had an incredibly
civil conversation. And at no point did I ever think
about not that I have a choice, but I guess,

(13:30):
But at no point was like I don't think I can.
I don't think I could be a part of THHC anymore.
Like I don't think I don't think I can work
with Ben anymore. Uh. It was you know, we we
had a difference of opinion and we talked it out,
and I thought that was a good conversation, was it not? Yeah?
I mean that's that's the whole point in my mind.
The reason why I'm not scared of telling people who

(13:51):
I voted for it is because it's the whole point
is so we could so people can talk about it, uh,
talk about why and under stand each other. And that's
where this conversational media and division comes in. It's just understanding.
You can't understand someone if you don't want to listen
to them. Um, and the media plays a huge part

(14:12):
and dividing us and spinning us into arguments that are
counterproductive and feelings that are counterproductives. Anyway, that's why I
don't mind saying who I voted for. It might hurt me.
I might lose some people from this show. I might
get trouble at work. I mean, who knows, I don't
know what the me saying who just I voted for?
And here's what was my line of thinking. I don't

(14:33):
know what that's gonna do for my life, but I
don't really care. Um. As I've often said, my my grandfather,
bless his heart. I got a picture of him right
here in my office. UM always said, you know, at
the dinner table, we don't talk about sex, religion or politics.
I don't know. Maybe because he pushed that. I'm like,
let's that's the interesting stuff, man, Like that's where we

(14:55):
need to learn about each other. UM, so let's not
leave that off the table. Yeah, I I only talk
about sex in religion at the dinner table. Yeah, I
don't know. I don't allow anything else. And I sometimes
I combine them. Yeah, film sex and religion not not
not sex, calm my religion they have to be together perfect. Well,

(15:15):
that's why you're here, that's why you're our special boy.
Thank you so be You know, most people with nothing
to lose, you don't have to be scared to say
they voted for what they believe. Um. But trust me,
in the in the in the place where are our culture,
everybody has a little something to lose. Um. I have
a very good friend of mine who had lost communication

(15:35):
with his daughter over politics and ideologies, which seems insane
to me. But that's how far we've come. Any final
statements filling that like, we'll leave that aside. Certainly, it's
it's one of the three lines of this year show,
so we'll keep after it. But um, I felt like
there was you know, with a new president coming on
and all that we've talked about. It's it's nice to

(15:57):
have that conversation. And I mean, I can't tell you
much I appreciate the emails that we've received, um boy,
it feels that feels real good to retreat to the
old THHD inbox. And so don't let me down out there,
don't leave me hanging. I gotta have something to read
that I really enjoy. So all your listeners out there,
keep firing them babies in um switching gears. All interview

(16:19):
on the show today is my good friend and the
editor of Recoil magazine. Former and he's now a recurring guests.
Second time on the show is Ian Harrison. Former. He's
from Great Britain. Defected, as he might say, to the
United States after Um the gun band over there decades ago.
I follow him the Dunblane massacre and began one reality

(16:43):
show on History Channel called Top Shot and got himself
into the shooting industry for good, the hunting and shooting
an outdoors industry for good. His story is awesome if
you want to go listen to that. On his episode
forty seven, Ian Harrison and Ryan Callahan from the Florida's
Shot show back in February, Team here is an entire story,
and here his thoughts because he is a man who

(17:06):
is all about freedoms, because some of his freedoms have
been taken away. And so that the topic of the
day is guns, gun rights, Second Amendment. Where we stand now, Phil,
you're a bath to become a gun owner. So you're
gonna be thrust into this conversation. You're gonna be thrust
full head on into the conversation about guns gun ownership.
Are you are you ready? Are you comfortable being a

(17:27):
gun owner? Yeah, I'm I'm personally comfortable being a gun owner.
But just for like, just to be completely honest here, Um,
especially before I worked for meat Eater and before I
was like exposed to you know, a lot of differing
viewpoints and practical knowledge about guns and hunting. I I

(17:51):
don't want to say I was anti gun or like
I wasn't in the melt of the guns camp. Um,
if you want to call that the most extreme. Uh,
But I'm I'm still incredibly worry about firearms and who
should be not like who like the process of obtaining them,

(18:13):
who should be allowed to own them? You know that
that that's something that's I'm still thinking about. And I
have a lot of reservations about. Um, I'm not I'm
not a gung ho Second Amendment person. Um. So I
I personally, UM don't have trepidations about owning a gun.

(18:33):
I I can handle it safely. I believe in store
it safely. Um. But yeah, I still I'm still very wary. Yeah.
It's good to hear, man, and that's why we love
having you on the show for many other reasons. Is
that who's in that the background is that Kevin or
meatlok Ken's taking a bath. Kevin is taking a bath.
He's like always looking and he heared me say his

(18:55):
name and keV, keV, make sure don't you miss a spot, Keev.
Anyway back to the serious topic of the second moment,
it's it's good Phil to hear you say that, because
I think we need to normalize that position. Well here
I realized that. Sorry, sorry, man, I just want to
I'm gonna interrupt you again really quickly. Karant and I

(19:15):
had Karan producer podcast producer Kriann. I don't think she's
ever been on this show, but if you listen to
me eater a few times, it's been a while. We
need to have her back on. We had a very
long conversation this weekend about getting people on board, just
like non hunters on board, and we kind of not

(19:37):
came to a conclusion, but we just kind of one
of the big things that like we kind of landed
on was that guns is that that's like a serious
major roadblock and getting people into hunting. The the conversation
around firearms and it's tough because I feel like people
in the in in this industry want to get more hunters,

(19:58):
they want more people hunting UM, but they also I
feel like a lot of people are uncomfortable having that
conversation about guns and if you're if you're if you're
unable or uncomfortable having the conversation about firearms and how
a lot of this country, including me, has a lot
of issues about how you know, things have been handled

(20:20):
in the past and how we should move forward. And
just like, then, you're not gonna get more hunters, You're
just like, I think that's a that's a huge thing.
So I mean you you have to be willing. Both
sides have to be willing to have the conversation. No,
I love it, man, I really do. And I We've
said this before, but there's been a part of the
hunting community that I have really abhorred over the last

(20:42):
ten years that I have been a part of it,
as as the ability for us to kick anybody out
and scorn anybody that brings an opinion like you just
brought to the table. There's been some notable instances where
folks that had followings UM that we celebrated for being
in our space. And maybe they weren't, you know, they

(21:03):
weren't one of us, but they were coming and really
enjoying the value set of hunting. As soon as they
spoke up against um the Second Amendment, or they even
hinted that they wouldn't weren't going to follow the party line,
we kick them right out. We tell them that they
can't be here. And that is that is the antithesis
of what we're trying to create, which is a welcoming
community that says, like, listen, this is what we believe

(21:24):
about guns. But we know, just like hunting, guns are
a complicated endeavor and they're not made any easier by
the politics. And what is a political and cultural lexicon
that includes banning things, gun safety, mass shootings, National Rifle Association,
includes a lot of strife. So people come into it

(21:45):
with a lot of baggage, and that's something we have
to understand. We can't just say like, we're right, and
if you want into the hunting community, you have to
think this way. That's never gonna be a welcoming place.
It's not a place I want to be a part of.
So we've talked about that on the show before. I
do wholeheartedly believe in the Second Amendment. I think I
can argue with the best of them, and we'll have

(22:06):
some people on that one. I all probably argue with
me about this. Ian is not obviously one of them. Um,
But I do think if if you and I would
sit down over time, I think the best way is
to get take somebody hunting and teach them about a firearm,
but then also just talk about, you know, where the
culture is, some of the bad, some of the good.
I mean, there's plenty of plenty of nuance within this
this topic. But here's something that here's the equation fill

(22:29):
as I see it today, there are eight point four
million just imagine this, eight point four million new gun
owners this last year in the United States. Eight point
four million. Some of them will go hunting. Many of
them bought firearms during COVID to defend themselves in their families.

(22:49):
So for a perspective, the population of the the entire
country of Switzerland is eight point six million people. So
basically Switzerland is the equivalent of the country of Switzerland,
and its entire population is the equivalent of the amount
of new gun owners that are are in our world
right now. In this country. That's a sobering idea. Man.

(23:14):
More than twenty one million gun background checks were conducted
last year. That's up six from nine and there were
nearly twenty three million firearms sold last year. That's pretty crazy, man,
That's that is insane to me. I've been through this.
We'll talk when we're talking to Ian. We talked about

(23:34):
this a little bit when I worked at the n
r A and when a President Obama got elected the
first time for his first trump you see, you see
this this idea that people are gotta go scramble and
get guns. But if you, if you, According to the
NSSF was looking at an article from them National Shooting
Sports Foundation, twenties buyers of guns were women, and the

(23:58):
biggest increase of any demographic category was African Americans. They
bought guns at a rate of fifty greater than So
there's people like you that are gonna buy you know,
I'm gonna grab a shotguns so I can go hunt
turkeys or I'm gonna you know that I think is
it's not a minority. It's it's it's likely a significant
part of this number. But most of the people coming

(24:19):
in here now own a gun and they have the
responsibility of that. And like I said before, you get
thrown into this cultural battle, it's political battle of guns.
Also the things we talked about with Ian. There's an
AMMO shortage going on right now. People bought buying up Ammo.
This happens in a in a cyclic fashion. The central organization,

(24:43):
the most polarizing organization and guns, the National Rifle Association,
just filed for bankruptcy and reincorporated in Texas, and they
spent about half of the amount of money lobbying during
this last presidential election as they did the time before
in And now you have President Biden's administration preparing gun
control legislation. Probably as we speak, they're probably jott in

(25:04):
a way as we speak. So I say all that
to say, man, there is a lot going on, too
much to ignore for anybody, especially new gun owners, especially
people coming into the fray who haven't done this before.
So it's an important topic. Um. I feel like if
people want to know where I stand, I feel as

(25:26):
strongly about the Second Amendment of my right to defend
my family as I do about public lands, access, environment,
protecting ecosystems and habitat for wildlife, like like they sit
on a equal plane for me, and to bring it
back to where we started, I have to make that
choice when I vote almost every single damn time, you know,

(25:47):
do I choose the environment or to I choose my
second Amendment? It almost seems to to to ride along
those lines and it sucks. But that's the that's the reality,
I guess. I say all that to say this is
one or more important conversations we're gonna have. Ian Harrison
is if you've never seen Recoil magazine, you should check
it out. Uh. They're pretty loud, they're pretty outspoken, and

(26:10):
um they're not boring, that's for sure. So this is
a good conversation with me. Anything phil that from all
those like eight point four million new gun owners like
do you what do you when you hear that number?
What do you like? Is that unbelievable or is that
seem the whole the entire country of Switzerland just bought
new guns? Yeah, I mean it's not surprising. Um, it's

(26:32):
but you know, no matter where you fall in on
the argument, I mean I think you laid it out
pretty clearly. That's a sobering, sobering statistic. Whether or not
you are whether you kind of fall into your camp
or my camp, like you know. Um, and it's not
surprising because of you know, the political uh you know,

(26:52):
we were just in the middle of an election cycle,
very heated. Would would you say it was heated Ben
this this last elections, But it seems like we're still
in the heat. I think, still feel the heat of
the flames. Um No, I mean yeah, And and I
think what happens with when the pandemic hit and then
we have an election the same year. You have need
to mention all the BLM protests this summer that too.

(27:18):
You have to look at this and say, what is
the root psychological cause of this? Because because from from
if you were to cut this up in Matt Taiebe's
whale analogy, you might say, if I cut this up
and I look at it from a pro gun standpoint,
these people are seeking control. They want to control their lives.

(27:41):
They wanted to be able to defend themselves when they're
when they're scared. They want to have some something to
turn to that gives them power over that fear, that
gives them control over the safety of their family. When
they don't trust the police, when they don't trust our leaders,
and so no matter where you land on the political scale,

(28:01):
guns have a utilitarian use. They have a thing that
they can provide you. Whether you like Republicans, you like Democrats,
it doesn't matter. And it's clear by the numbers I
just read that that's what's going on. And so as
we think about this, we should be thinking about can
Like as scary as this may sound to some people,

(28:23):
it looks to me like guns are uniting us rather
than dividing us, like in terms of what they can
do for our lives. Now you talk about how we
politicize them, it's just like masks or anything else. We
can politicize just about anything. We've proven that. But the
way that people are buying guns, and I think at
least my opinion on on why they're buying guns down

(28:45):
to the you know, the base reasoning, it's something that
anybody can get behind. Um, if they're scared, if somebody
knocked your door down, mostly the first thing you do
is go and get a gun. A lot of people
and so that's something we will continue to knock through.
But Ian Harrison is is you know, right on the
front lines of this, thinks about it every single day. Um,

(29:08):
as one of my great friends. So we we have
some serious conversation and we veer off because I've known
him forever and he's one of my favorite humans. So
you'll enjoy that, and you will enjoy Ian Harrison from
to Alright, Ian Harrison, Welcome to the program. Welcome back

(29:34):
to the program. I think this makes you a recurring guest.
Now that is your second time coming on and talking
to me. Yeah, yeah, When was the last time? Was
it the shot show last year, the year before the
year before. I want to say, yeah, that's when we
hooked up to Live V's, wasn't it. Yeah, we were
hooked up to piece that. I totally forgot about that.
That was a podcast time. When it was when the

(29:58):
ivy bag was empty, that was the end of podcast. God,
the pre pandemic days, they were funny. I remember those wistfully.
Oh dude, I love it. Man, just I totally forgot
about that. Oh man, I need to pee after the
end of that one. Oh my god, I think I

(30:18):
might have peen during it. Uh. The folks, the Venetian
housekeepers were not happy leaving ivy bags of the place.
At least we picked up about needles. Yeah, they're like, yeah,
they're like, what happened in here? It smells like you're
in and there's needles everywhere. Uh, So I love you.
How are things going you're down in Arizona these days?

(30:41):
But more importantly, I think people are going to say,
how are things going with Recoil magazine? Uh? And and
Carnivore magazine too, and all the things that you do
uh in your world. Yeah, we had to you know,
COVID took a little bit of a ding into a
distribution back in May and June just because um, we
don't really have are on newsstands and grocery stores and

(31:02):
they were the only stores open. But since then we've
really bounced back, and that's it's cool to see the
open trajectory from there. You can tell people, like Recoil itself,
what's the mission of recoil um. Recoil was founded about
what eight nine years ago now, back in the in
the sounds of time, and we took a look at

(31:22):
what was on the shelves with regards to firearms publications
and we kind of went, yeah, we can probably do better.
And so it's kind of you know, the art director
that I had back then is still with us. Now
and he really set the bar with regards to graphic
design and the look and feel of the book, and
we wanted to touch subjects as well that kind of
being ignored to a great extent by by traditional gun media,

(31:47):
and so you know, we kind of delve into the
cool guy stuff and things that are on the sort
of periphery of the firearms world. And so, yeah, we
just have fun with what we're doing. And I hope
the fact that we are still having fun and I
love going to work every day kind of show us
through in some of the content that we produce. Yeah.
I mean, as we talked about, one of the things

(32:08):
I love about about the magazine itself and about the
way that it kind of like the corner of the
gun culture that you guys have kind of carved out
for yourselves, is that it's it's really not ashamed, but
it's also um intelligently put together and it's thoughtful and
it but it it you know, it's not willing to
it's very willing to punch you in the face you

(32:30):
need to be. Is that is that a good way
to describe it. Yeah. As far as the intelligence of
the articles go, those are all of my colleagues. That's
not me at all. Yeah, that goes without saying. But yes, UM, well,
I mean there's a bunch of things we're gonna talk about,
but in this show we're kind of dedicating this year

(32:51):
it's too new hunters. Um and really like by proxy
a new gun owners. Um, as you will know a
lot of them. Yeah, out of them, eight point full
million new gun owners into the full this year, which
is great to see. And the majority of those people
coming in are not traditional gun owners as you normally
think of them, as you know, as they're portrayed within

(33:13):
the traditional gun media. Yeah, how do you think that changes?
You know, we talked about gun culture in like a
grand scale a lot of times, but how do you
think this influx? I mean, and this this happened to
And to be honest, I was at working at the
n r A when we first met, when Barack Obama
got elected the first time, UM, and you we saw

(33:34):
similar uptick. But I think this is just it's just
different time in America. UM. And we you know, except
we talked about the gun culture a lot of times
in macro terms, But how do you see these eight
point four million people changing? Um? What you say, and
what we we all should be saying. Well, I think
really they are new audience. UM, it's an audience that

(33:55):
we probably haven't addressed all that well in the past,
and they have different outlooks and they're coming to firearms
ownership from a probably a different perspective than the most
than the majority of people. UM. For example, you know,
there's something like people who bought new guns on new
gun on the joint of the ranks in h were

(34:17):
either women or came from the black and brown community,
so people of color and now seeing what the second Amendment, um,
how the second amoment applies to them? And you I've
got to imagine that the majority of people who saw
some of their communities go up in flames over the
course of the summer probably taking steps in order to think, well,
maybe the cops aren't going to be there when I

(34:38):
did them. Yeah, that's such a it's it's we talked
a little bit last week about a certain type of
paradox in the media sphere, but that seems like quite
the paradox and the gun in the gun world to
be you know, to be thrust into, whether you like
it or not, into kind of this cultural division that's
happening in in the way that we see each other. Yeah, yeah,

(34:59):
I agree, Well, yeah the way that you and I
told you this the other day when we were talking.
I feel like you have the best cover blurb of
any magazine because because I'm gonna let you describe it,
I'm not even gonna attempt to. But you you know,
it's a guy wearing a shirt and the cover blurb,
the main cover blurb as we call it in the

(35:19):
in the biz, I guess, is on a guy's shirt.
So you can just be like he was just wearing
that shirt. Nothing that is that is his ship. That's
that's Muche to his branding. And so Marge, uh explain, Yeah,
explained Muche to you for sure, Ye mused. Tour is
as an activist, as to segment, an activist within the
black community, and he founded an organization called Black Guns

(35:41):
Matter a few years back, and he really approaches the
whole subject of firearms and firearms rights. Uh really from
the perspective in the US anyway, the very first gun
control laws that were passing this country were aimed at
Freed's freed slaves, and you know, the the authorities at

(36:03):
the time, they UM really did not want anybody from
that community, the black community, especially being able to have
the tools for self defense. UM, because you know, after
the second after the Civil War and the gym crawl
laws that ensued. UM, you know, there was trying to
trying to keep blacks from voting, keeps blacks from owning

(36:26):
guns and exercising the rights that they had fought for. Yeah,
and it's so to to I'm all you described the cover.
What does it say on the cover, Well, he's wearing
a shirt and it says all gun control is racist,
and that's his opinion. I don't agree with that because
I come from a different perspective. UM, Like in the UK,

(36:48):
the very first firearms legislation that was enacted in the
twentieth century, UM was more geared towards the other UM.
But so maybe you can approach it from that perspective,
like the authorities don't want you having guns, and uh,
it's a first uncontroll act and really effective. In the
UK it was in nineteen twenty and the establishment looked

(37:10):
at what was happening in the rest of Europe, especially
what was happening with that contemporaries over in Russia. Um,
and they did not want any of the their authority
being challenged, especially not by anybody who has spent four
years in the trenches of World War World War One,
and uh it was you know, pretty well tooled up

(37:30):
and had the had the training and capacity in order
to affect a change should they decided to go down
that route. Yeah. Yeah, I mean we've talked about this before,
you know, I I understand the fear there and the
thing I would say with homage about all gun controls
racist And I'm sure at some level you agree, like
you know, that's taking it, let's taken a little fart.

(37:52):
It's a little absolutist for me, you know, just saying
man like, maybe it's not all, maybe some of it
isn't Um. Have you had conversations with him about this
or have you you thought about that statement and of
itself and how to see from his point of view
where he's coming from and then connect we we've we've
we've been, we've been back and forth, and uh. Yeah,

(38:13):
he's an interesting character, and you know he's he's sending
to angel Um and he in the interview with him
in this issue, he describes himself as a reform scumbag
and uh and you know, but interesting guy and it's
great to see his perspective and his take on things
coming from the way, you know, where he grew up
in Philly. Yeah, and his perspective is what I mean,

(38:37):
what does he say? What when he when he gets
into this statement, it's a it's a nice way to
sell T shirts. But I mean it's a it's a
nice look at shirt. I don't know where you get one,
but that that reminds me really need to work out
some sort of affiliate deal with him. We're talking about
affiliate marketing. That's the perfect one, linking on recoil web

(38:59):
dot com. Um. It's a great T shirt and it's
a fine saying, but I think it mirrors some of
the things in the media space that I don't like
in the public sphere that I don't like that that
does tend towards the absolutist and and it clearly it
seems that Marge is trying to get people's attention here.
It is. It's it. It is I think purely for

(39:19):
that reason that that's it is created. I mean, it is.
It grabs your attention, It slaps your side the head,
and it gets you thinking now, as you say, absolutist
points of view, probably, I don't know. Look then, I
think with both an agreement and that nuance has kind
of been kicked out of the public public debate, in
the public sphere um. And a lot of that has

(39:42):
to do with you know, media dividing people in eating
into two campus so that we can yell at each other.
And I think, yeah, as a tool for starting debate,
I think is it's a good thing to do. But
as far as a philosoph he probably is a little
bit too far down that road. Yeah, And I get it.

(40:04):
I mean there's some play and black Guns Matter certainly
is Again I said, it turns it turns it into
a sensitive discussion right away, and it gets attention on
I'm sure what Marge wants to talk about now. You
said in a post on your Instagram that he's been
shadow band. I just tried to search him to no avail.
Is this true that he's been shatt Yeah. I mean

(40:24):
if you could go ahead and search for him in Instagram,
and that's search by at the top, you have to
you have to type in his pretty much his whole
name before anything pops up and you'll see lots of
other suggestions from Instagram before that happens, and so I
think that's indicative as to the stamps that social media
has with regards to Second Amendment and final his rights

(40:46):
in this country. Yeah, I want to get into that too. Um.
I don't want to leave this too far off the table.
And i'm i'm I have not read up or studied
up on the history of gun control in terms of
race and racism. So I the reason I want to
bring that up so people can go and get um Recoil.
It's on a news stands now, I'm assuming Yeah, yeah,
it drops this week. But don't limit your reading to Recoil, please,

(41:07):
don't that. There's a bunch of great titles out The
Negroes in the Gum is a great one to start
off with, UM, and it really goes into the history
of of gun control in the US. That's good. Yeah,
that's one thing in terms especially this one. Like I said,
I am not read up on this, but go do
your reading. We certainly have had some some critical conversations

(41:30):
about race and race theory and how it's applied to
even the outdoors. So sometimes the outdoors don't feel welcome
to people of black and brown skin color and people
of all minorities. UM. Certainly we see that reflected in
um the audience demographics and that listen to this show
and many many around our our space. So I'm not
gonna be any sort of bleeding hot level about this,

(41:52):
but really just looking at it from the our perspective
from you, you know, we kind of, for whatever reason,
you and I kind of been put on in this
position in order to as kind of spokespeople for the
either hunting or the finals communities. But we've done a
really crap job of reaching out to people who don't

(42:13):
look like us. Yeah, we really have. And like I
said that, there's nothing that hasn't been politicized and kind
of buried in the muck these days, you know, wearing
masks and all these other things. And this is one
thing that where we can't where you know. And and
we'll get into some of these other topics I want
to get into the n RA and gun control included
in that. But it feels like, you know, the ability

(42:37):
to have the conversations we need to have in public
about race and the outdoors and guns and all the things,
all the sticky things to go with. It has been limited.
We we self limit because it can't be controversial, but
it's also been limited culturally because you know, we don't
stand to benefit from from something that delves into the
real issues. We only stand to benefit from yelling at

(42:57):
each other. Um, as you said earlier. So I want
to have more conversations like that. I'm glad you're doing
it over there. Um, if not just a highlight guys
like Coli in the war and Mage and guys that
are are aggressively arguing for their rights, um and what
they believe and they may not look like uh, you know,
folks on our industry traditionally look and and it's my opinion,

(43:19):
I've said it many times on this program that people
are just trying to see themselves reflected in these communities.
I will give people platform to talk about how they
see the Second Amendment UM affecting them. Well, I think
that's a good stop wherever we can do it. Yeah. Well,
and as you said earlier, I mean, and it's important
that if millions of people are buying guns that didn't
happen before, and a lot of them obviously are, and

(43:41):
in these demographics that we're talking about, they gotta have
a place where they feel like they can have those
conversations because they're coming to it without all the dogma
built in and all the things built in that you
and I have from lots of years thinking about this
and talking about it and working in it. Yeah, I mean,
breaking down why people are buying guns is interesting. We've

(44:02):
done it a little bit from looking at it from
a demographic side, but just like, what's the motivations? You
know what, I'm sure you talked to new gunners all
the time. What do you see is the top motivations
right now? Yeah? Right now? I think it's if you
look at what people are buying. The majority of people
are buying handguns, and the only reason you're gonna need
a handgun really is for self protection, either yourself or

(44:25):
your loved ones UM. And I think that's that's been
the main driver, that's the main motivated for the eight
old million people who have joined our ranks this year.
And so I think one of the things that some
of the programs that the the n r A has
had a great success with UM, such as Project and

(44:45):
the Onions and the NSSF should Project Child Safe and
Edie Eddie Eddie the Eagle program and they refused to
be a victim training programs as well, the n r
SP aaded. I think those are great ways to speak
to you gun on it and get them started off
on the right foot. Now, the downside of that is
nobody can find freaking Ammo anymore. But that as happens

(45:11):
when there's the correlation is new gun owners, No Ammo.
We've we've built up that. That's another cool subject to
dive into. Um And you know, you see you see
someone online debates within our our own Second Amendment community
and say, oh, why don't manufacturers just scale a production?

(45:33):
That's easy, isn't it? Isn't it? Well? No, yeah, it's
huge capital expenditure to put rampant production for something that's
probably going to be short lived. And then you know
the banks are not going to finance this. Just there
there's reputational risk involved from from some of the bigger
finance financial companies and so where does that leave us? Uh, well,

(45:56):
we're going to be struggling for a year or so
because there's only four many at the primers in the
US and one manufacturer of nitrocellulose. Yeah, I mean, we
can't act like this is the first time we've had
an Amoor in this way. If I have to yet
again returned to when I was a young journalist working
at the n r A and covering this exact same

(46:16):
kind of scenario. Now there wasn't a pandemic, a global
pandemic pushing it along, but exactly the same thing we
did articles. I wrote articles about primer shortages ten years ago. UM.
And so this this is a cyclic for sure, It's
called renial at least absolutely. But I would say that
you know, we know that by intensified when COVID nineteen

(46:39):
came and when reached American shores. Um, we know that
the biggest sales. We talked to Hornity, you know, we
saw their biggest sales ever in March UM and they
said it was a watershed moment for their company. Or
our mutual buddy Neil Davies said, told us that are
our boy. Um. And so there's there's a lot of

(46:59):
things that happened, but I think the political climate also
went into it. One thing that we should talk about
is COVID. You know, why were people Ian Harrison, Why
the hell were people buying guns during COVID and what
the hell is going on? Yeah, I think people are
seeing that, um, you know, fed by by by the media.

(47:20):
You know, then the perception of the otis is the
end of the world. Well not really, but if it's
the end of the world, then how do you protect
yourself and your loved ones during that cataclysmic event? And
I think a gerally just focus people's mind not just
on the pandemic. I think it also focused people's minds
on Okay, well, what else could be out there? What

(47:42):
other threats to my safety and well being might that be?
And if this isn't the one, then maybe there is
something else that I should be thinking of and taking
steps in order to address it. Yeah. We we interviewed
Mark Oliver from NSSF and he had a good quote.
He said, you can't discount the toilet paper effect that's

(48:03):
going on. So yeah, but now people have got enough
stuff to wipe their offices with for the police and
this case of ammunition, so they need something. Yeah, they
need something to defend the toilet papers. That's to be
to be fair to market, I said, people are concerned

(48:25):
they aren't going to get what they need when they
need it. And I told my you know, I don't
want to. I don't want to press too hard upon
this analogy because it could fall apart real quick. But
I told my wife when she said I just bought
three times the toilet paper back in March, I said,
but that's why there's a toilet paper shortage, because everybody,
every normal person is just like I'll just buy a
little bit more just because I don't know if I'm

(48:46):
gonna need it, but I want to want to have it.
And if every person buys three times what they normally have,
then then you're done. Um, And I think that's similar
with AMMO. I think you're right. Yeah, I think you're right.
I mean it is that plus plus the one to
you people who have joined the fold. And there is
a very much a fixed supply in this country. We
can't ramp up beyond a certain level without spending a

(49:08):
lot of money. And there's a long tail in order
to you know, bring a new facility into production. So
you know, it is what it is. We have the
supply that we have. And if you have an in
elastic supply and you know, an almost infinite demand, well
guess what's going to happen? So, Um, what caliber should

(49:29):
people be stock buying right now. In your opinion, anything
that I don't have, I don't have indeed, for you
guys can have all that's caliber, right, go out and
buy all So yeah, go ahead, go buy thirty crag
and stuff. Yeah, any anything actually improved to any Actually
that's what that's what you need to be buying. Yeah.

(49:53):
We have an article now over there at the immediator
dot com and it addresses about amate addresses conspiracy theories.
Do you have any conspiracy theories you want to cover
here about amy shortages? Um, I think this is just
a major conspiracy of being unable to understand the laws
of supply and demand. Um, you know, basic economics. I

(50:15):
don't think there's any ammunition being siphoned off into secret
government warehouses. And how might I check the inside of
my my ball cap and it's surprisingly tinfoil free. Yeah,
I mean that amunition companies people are saying, you know,
their profit motivated, right, Um, they're not gonna be a

(50:38):
hoarding ammunition Like one of the conspiracy theories is that
they're hoarding ammunition like they gotta make money to could
go Yeah yeah, if yeah, if I'm a publicly traded company,
and I'm holding the material that is going to satisfy
my shareholders. How long am I going to last as
the CEO if I do that? And and those conspiracy

(50:58):
theories seem to be the same every time this happens.
Every time. Every time the cycle comes back, it's like, oh, there,
there they are hoarding the m O again. UM. And
I certainly you know, like you could bring on you know,
somebody from that knows the manufacturing processes and how how
hard it is to get brass and how hard is
to get primers and how they select, like what calibers
are we going to go in on? Um? Have you

(51:19):
had any sense of that, um from your experience with
the industry, of how they choose and times like this,
what calibers to focus on or how they differentiate. Yeah,
right now, everybody's producing nine millimeter and two to three
as fast as they can possibly do it, and they're
running three shifts and then the machines are flat out,
and so there is a huge demand for those two

(51:42):
calibers because you know, everybody wants to buy a glock
in the nail and that's just the way it is,
and it's going to be that way for quite some
time as well. Normally we've had in the past, we've
had the opportunities to to pick up some of that
that demand and satisfy some of that demand from imports.
But because of COVID, you know, the Russian Russian I

(52:03):
mean I should, I mean they should plants shut down
for two months completely over the course of and so
that left a huge gap in their supply for their
own domestic markets, and then any of the surplus that
would have sent us, well, that just went away. Yeah,
do you have any idea when we're gonna come out

(52:24):
of this? Probably in about four to eight years. Yeah,
I'm banking on a year, and I'm banking on not
being able to get um the stuff that I want
at the drop of a hat, just being able to
go into a store and just pick up a case
of ammunition. I'm pretty much banking on that not being

(52:44):
available for a year. What's going to happen, man, in
the next two years? What what are we looking at
here as gun owners, as hunters, new old veteran and
you know, rookie, what what's gonna happen to us? Well?
As my platoon sergeant was wont to say, oh my balls,

(53:08):
are hairy, not crystal. So right now, it's just prognostication,
I guess, and I'm hoping. How weren't really hoping it happens,
is that the people, you know, the people who are
coming into power right now, are going to look at

(53:28):
the changing landscape regards to the Second Amendment community and go,
you know, those eight point four million people who just
bought guns, if we pissed them off before the midterms,
then we could see a lot of losses um amongst
the Congress critics. So I'm hoping that cooler heads will

(53:48):
prevail and we won't see any primary legislation introduced for
the next couple of years. However, that's you know, that's
that's making a big assumption. So it is, yeah, surely
is there any Is there any gun control legislation or
any legislation out there around firearms that you you feel

(54:08):
like makes sense that there are any restrictive letters? No,
h if there's any good do you think you actually said,
is there any farmars legislation? Changes to firem slegislation? I
would I would approve of, yes, get rid of the
Gun Control Act, make machine guns look great again, And
I would you know, I'm more of a libertarian mindset

(54:31):
than than a lot of my peers. And that you
know that old quote that I'd like to see my
get married neighbors defending that pot plantation with machine guns. Um,
I kind of want to see that. Do you come from?
I mean, if people went back and listen to our
last podcasts where you went through the whole thing, do
you feel like that's born from that you've seen You've
had to go down when you were in England. Um,

(54:53):
you're you're a member of the military and active member
of the military and had to go turn in your firearms. Um?
Is that where this is kind one from? Yeah? Pretty much?
You know, Um, I've seen firsthand where all these you know,
just sensible gun control steps where they end up. Um,
they end up in confiscation. Um. The ratchet only turns

(55:17):
one way. By Yeah. We've talked about the slipery slope
fallacy in other ways here with anti hunters and things
like bear hunting with dogs or you know, hound hunting
and in general, or bear hunting New Jersey or mountain
hunting in California. We've talked about and examined the slippery slope.
Is it a fallacy. Is it real? Um? The more

(55:37):
that I look at it and the other logical fallacies
that exist, I think the slippery slope fallacy is not
a fallacy at all. It's very real. I just I
think people just haven't thought it through. And one of
the main reasons. And again I and I'll say this,
wherever I think the burden of proof in this case
lies with the government, lies with anyone who wanted to

(55:58):
restrict our rights. The burden of proof lies with them.
I mean, if you look at what happened in Canada,
the burden of proof that Justin Trudeau put out there
to ban people from owning certain firems was laughable at best.
Um that I read the documents and it's it's they
banned the air fifteen dot com from being purchased. Yeah,

(56:19):
you counot buy an ail fifty You cannot so, but
you know that that's the first flass for me. But
you you count the platform it, Yes you can. Thanks Canada,
get it together. Um. But I think that the burden
of proof is on the restrictor um and intensely so.
But then I also in this case, I think that

(56:41):
we have to find a way to have a conversation,
because I think we're talking past each other in a
lot of ways. One side is talking about banning um
and talking about stopping mass shootings, and one side talking
about protecting their family. We are talking completely past each other.
I agree. And again it gets back to that division
that's been created intentionally by the media in order to

(57:04):
split the country into two camps. And who just shout
at each other. Do you think there's a way, You
think there's a way we can talk to because certainly
all those there there there, I'm sure the eight point
four million new folks go across the political divides, they
go from party to party from perspective perspective, there's there's

(57:25):
no opportunity for something other than that. So their motivations
are completely different, less ideological than yours or mine might be,
or somebody that has the experience, and so there there's
a bit of the crossroads. Um. Yeah, I mean they're
buying guns for practical reasons, so they're not buying it
just because it's it's a statement of philosophy. Yeah. Well,

(57:46):
I mean part of the other thing that I think
of is when that burden of proof becomes on the
restrictor and and when I when I look at the
burden of proof that would come from somebody like Joe
Biden or for folks and his party. If if if
we look at it, let's say, an air an assault
weapons ban, I currents did not hear that term um
in and of itself is a complete logical fallacie assault

(58:08):
weapons ban or an air fifteen band. If the burden
of proof was on the government to prove that those
bands are gonna save lives, Okay, if they're gonna save
the lives of people, um, you know, innocent people, whether
it's a mass shooting or what. If they were really
making laws to do that, they would ban They would
first look to ban pistols, wouldn't they. Yeah. If you

(58:31):
you look at how often certain categories of firearms are
used in mass shootings or using crime in general, then
the vast majority of homicides are done with with handguns. UM.
Firearms related homicides anyway. Um, if you look at how
many rifles are used of all types in homicides in

(58:53):
a given year, it's around about seven hundred. Not that
figure is not really changed much in the past ten years.
The only thing that we've seen is a downward trends
in the door of the farmers related homicides. And so
if you if you do want to establish closing effect,
then with all these new firearms in circulation, then surely
you would see a massive uptick in the number of shootings.

(59:14):
And we're just not seeing that. Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing.
That's where I end up. If if we're gonna, if
we're gonna say you have to the burden of proof
of this band is on you. Um the folks like
Joe Biden, who has been on this train. I have
a I had a memory pop up on my social
media on Facebook of UM Shot Show, I want to say,
seven years ago, eight years ago, of of a much

(59:36):
younger and virile looking Joe Biden standing behind Barack Obama
as they announced some executive orders around gun control. And
we were standing in the halls of Shot Show in Vegas,
the largest UM guns show in the world. And so
I remember the irony of that day. UM pretty and
now here we are we're looking at something similar, no
shot Show, because we can't go to Vegas and gather,

(01:00:00):
but it's it's a similar, similar idea. So this this
ended of itself is cyclical, and that that burden of
proof seems to have not um shifted in the way
that it's being presented. So me is it's just just
a searching for an objective truth here, searching for objective
objectivity within this polarized debate where you almost can't talk
about it without getting people so fired up. If I'm

(01:00:21):
searching for objectivity and I start with burden of proof
for any sort of band or restriction all my rights,
I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it um, and
I haven't seen a an approach that makes sense UM
under those bounds. So that's that's where I stand. YEA, yeah,
I would agree with you on that one. And I'm
glad you refresh my memory regarding that Shot show because

(01:00:41):
I've been day drinking with some myset buddies. Shot beautiful back.
Um that was that was well before we might have
IVS that year, but we didn't record any podcast. All right, Well,
I mean again, we're gonna up into this and I'm
I'm looking forward talking to um some individuals in the

(01:01:03):
gun community that have a different view than you, and
he may be a different view than me to have,
and we talked about this. It would be nice to
in the future, when we can get phase to phase
have a debate style conversation where we can put these
ideas directly against each other. But for now, I would
we would delighted to do that because they're wrong, yes,

(01:01:25):
and I try to remain I certainly try to remain
objective harborer of those things. But I do have my
own beliefs around the Second Amendment. UM. No matter how
I've been attacked as a green decoy or other things
across the time. UM, I've been very consistent about my
belief in the Second Amendment and my belief in defending
my family and and the things we just discussed. So

(01:01:45):
but we're gonna we're gonna try that, and and we're
gonna have those ideas and present those two and let
those folks have UM their time to to speak about this.
But you know, at some point in the future, I
really do want to get together and just just hash
this stuff out. And there's no one better than you.
I mean, like I said before, you've devoted your life
to the firearms community. UM, the reason you're in this

(01:02:07):
country is because of the freedoms that we have UM
around gun ownership and the ability to defend ourselves. And
and you know, go go shoot around a three gun
if you're feeling stressed out and you need a nice release,
and I want to go have some competition. So there's
a lot that goes into that. But we'll continue to
look at this because you know this podcast, we're talking
about new hunters a lot this year, and this is

(01:02:28):
not something that can be glossed over in those terms.
It just is not in my opinion. So um, close
it out. Let's close it. We could close out with
a lighthearted topic, some something lighthearted. What are you looking
forward to? Interview me? I don't give a ship, all right, yeah,
what what are you looking for? You? But I mean
when you got any good, good hunts coming up? I do, uh,

(01:02:49):
I got a lot. You know my hunt to New Zealand.
We had a first light contest where like somebody could
win a hunt with me. I don't know why you
would want to do that, but you could go to
New Zealand, which is like the probe that live. Yeah, yeah,
maybe maybe they want somebody talk to him about ethics
and the search for truth on the plane ride over
for twelve hours. Who knows? It would be awful, awful

(01:03:11):
even for me. It would be awful. I can't help myself.
I'd be like, my god, this guy's annoying. And anyway,
I'm looking forward to turkey season. Man, like, I don't.
I don't know you to be a big turkey owners.
Do you do you turkey hunt? Oh? I like yeah, okay,
that's good. Yeah, I'm very much looking forward to turkey hunting.
I'm gonna take our engineer Phil out turkey hunting for

(01:03:31):
his first hunt ever this year. But I've also had
a lot of goals around, uh, killing turks, So I'm
looking each year I have a goal and get ten
turkeys to fill the freezer. But I feel like ten
turkeys is enough to feed my family what the white
meat they desire over the year's term. I've never gotten
to ten. I've only ever gotten I think seven is

(01:03:52):
the highest I've gotten to. But I continue to put
that calculus together in my mind about this time every year,
when there's no hunting left to do, and it's just
like a thing. Ice fishing and thinking about turkeys is
basically this time of year for me. I got coyote
hunting right now. There's a lot of eyes around your place. Yeah,
and we have you know, I've got chickens and livestock,

(01:04:12):
so it's good to put a den in the numbers.
And I know somebody's gonna come up and say, oh,
if you shoot them, then they'll just reproduce more. And you, well,
I guess what if you shoot the ones that are
eating your chickens, they don't need your chickens anymore. So now,
I mean, I you know, I'm still you know, dude,
I will say this openly. Montana. I have there's a curse.
I have the curse of the Montana tag in my life.

(01:04:34):
Every time I leave the state of Montana, I fill
my tag immediately. But I've been a two year resident
of Montana, and Montana is kicking my ass uh to
an embarrassing level. Um. And so anybody out there wants
to uh take us some swings at my ability as
a hunter, It's wide open. Baby. You're Mike Tyson, and

(01:04:55):
I'm I guess I'm not Buster Douglas. Maybe I'm a
vander holy face. I'm wide open for criticism because I'm struggling.
You're losing the hear on that one. Yeah, easy, easy,
So yeah, I'm struggling there. But this year I'm doubling
down on Montana. I might not leave Montana just because
I need to. You're going after elk, Yeah, I'll have

(01:05:15):
you know, elk and deer uh bear has been something
that has eluded me. So I'll do a lot of
spring black bear hunting. Turkeys, especially in the state of Montana,
have eluded me. Um And then, so what you're saying
is that there's actually no game in Montana. Yeah, there's
nothing here. I have it, there's nothing there. Yeah, And
I think maybe like the the the force that the

(01:05:37):
earth turns faster here and bullets, you know, maybe get
pulled to the left or right, and so circumstances, I
don't understand. Arrows don't fall where they're supposed to. But
as soon as you go into Wyoming them suckers hit good.
So South Dakota perfect. So I don't and I go
to Montana. But anyway, what's your You're always doing something crazy.
I remember you were skydiving sometime in Alaska. We're gonna

(01:06:00):
jump out of a plane and go hunt or something.
You're always doing something crazy. Yeah, yeah, that's still on
the cons for this year. Explain that, you explain this,
Explain this. Yeah, so we we um, you should probably
talk to kill and Killing Chick from modern day sniping,
because he's the one who's kind of put this up
a little crazy idea together. But yeah, the whole idea
is to go into an area that's pretty remote and

(01:06:20):
then skydive in because yeah, why not. All right, that's it, folks,
We'll see you next time. Be a great way to end.
We're talking about doing a lot of kiss stanzaing here
or just like get your joke and get out of
the podcast. Podcast always go too long? Too well? Um,
anything else, anything else you want to tell the people

(01:06:41):
the hunting collective audience here, I mean they you're a
recurring guests now, which means you're gonna have to come
back every time, something like a recurring nightmare. It's very similar.
That's very I don't know how to follow that up,
don't Well, that means we're all done. Um, thank you again,
and everybody should go back and listen to our first

(01:07:02):
interview with Ian that goes through your story of how
you came to the United States, Oh America. It's as
informative um to this conversation around gun control and hunting
and our communities at large as it gets because it's
real and it's the guy you now know and I
know very well and happened to him, so could happen
to us. Um. So we'll leave it there, Ian, thank

(01:07:24):
you very much. I will see you for our skydive
hunt pleasure, my brother James night. That's it. That's all.
Another episode in the books. Thank you too, Ian Harrison,
Thank you to fill the Engineer. And another thank you

(01:07:46):
to everybody that writes into th HD at the media
dot com. We absolutely positively appreciate you and every buddy
that listens to this program. And again let me reiterate,
grapefruits over cinnamon rolls. And I also when we hate,
listening is encouraged on the collective. If you hate us,
tell your friends and they should listen to And if

(01:08:11):
they're also uh in an ideological bubble and they just
need something to get angry at, we'll do that for
you because we're really about community and there's room in
the cult for everyone from all shapes and sizes. So
please please hate listen to the Hunting Collective. Um, Phil,

(01:08:32):
we got a lot to We got a lot of
things happening that we're gonna get to next week. A
lot of things. Now, you have challenged me to come
up with a good idea for a contest for making
the next THHD theme song, the song that you hear
every week with Kayla Ray and so I we're gonna
get with Kayle We're gonna figure something out. We'll probably
even have her on next week talk a little bit
about it. We'll figure that out for you. The other

(01:08:55):
thing we're figuring out talking to my friends at the
n w TF that's the National Wild Turkey Federation. If
we don't know about that is they're struggling right now. Man.
Conservation groups are struggling. Conservation groups can't have banquets. I
don't know if everyone listen this knows how most traditional
conservation groups make money. But they have banquets where they

(01:09:15):
they sign up members. They auction off prizes that like
in regional chapters and an abroad base, Wild Chief Foundation,
National While Turkey Federation, Rocky Mount Elk Foundation, all these
things that you know support the species and habitat that
we need and love. They're struggling because they're having to
have zoom conferences instead of shows. I mean this, Normally

(01:09:40):
we would be at shot show, we would be at
cheap show. We would be in Vegas and Reno and
seeing all our good friends in those places, but we're
not this year. Those conservation organs are struggling. And so uh, Phil,
I I what we're gonna do. And then and this is,
and you guys can help us with this too, is
we're gonna figure out a way to make Will's First
Hunt a way to raise some cache for the National

(01:10:04):
Wild Turkey Federation. And w tf, We're gonna find a way.
They have recently laid off a bunch of people, um
and talking to their folks the other day, they're saying, Man,
we don't know what we're gonna do if we don't
if if another banquet season goes bust, if we can't
gather for another year, we don't know what we're gonna do.
We don't know what that looks like for our organization.

(01:10:27):
And so it's inspired me to figure out a way,
tope to use Phil's First Hunt and and make some
cash and just give it all, every single cent of
it to the National Wild Turkey Federation. Maybe we save
a program that's important to habitat. Maybe we get somebody's
job back. Um, there's a lot of things we can
do if we all band together and help them out.

(01:10:49):
So more details to come next week on that, and
I'm hoping Phil a little tip of the cap. I'm
hoping that it will involve cameo that you and I
will be going to work making videos for cash, like
a couple of street performers in the corner. Think one

(01:11:10):
of those guys that spins around a sign, you know,
for discount furniture. That's what we'll be like, Okay, that'll
be you. I'll be like your little monkey that's hitting
the symbols. Symbols, Yes, perfect, can't you That's what I
was going to say that. But or playing an accordion,
it's her, it's your pick. I can do you can
play there? Can you play the accordion? No? But I
can do symbols, all right, I can play the recorder.
We have one hell of a band. Sure? All right? Well, um,

(01:11:33):
next week, big week, talk more with kayla Ay. We're
going to figure out what we're gonna do for the
n w TF. Please right in with your ideas. I'll
be honest, it hit me pretty hard when I heard
about this from the n w TF. So let's not
take anything for granted. If you can spare a dollar,
we're gonna find a way to make that happen for you,

(01:11:53):
and we're all band together if we can. We will
see you next week on the Honey Collective. Say bye Phil,
goodbye No, because I can't go a week without doing rong,
oh without absolute rong, drinking out right, absolute wrong, drinking

(01:12:16):
in even