October 29, 2025 • 26 mins
In the quiet aftermath of an unthinkable tragedy, the town of Moscow, at the center of the nation’s attention, continues to heal. Through the voices of those who led, grieved, and reported from the heart of the story, this episode examines how a close-knit town and the families affected by a devastating tragedy continue to navigate loss and uncertainty.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
This was a case with shocking violence. I, like everyone else,
wanted answers.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Somebody needs to speak for Moscow, and that turned out
to be me.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
We're strong and we're not gonna let whatever you want
to refer to him as break up our family or
make us cold or heard in our hearts.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
This is the Idaho Massacre a production of KAT Studios
and iHeartRadio, Season three, Episode eleven. After the Headlines, I'm
Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker,
Alison Bankston, and Gabriel Castillo. After Brian Coberger pled guilty
(00:53):
last July, his name and face have slowly begun to
fade from the headlines. News feeds every hour of every
day have grown quiet. The horror he unleashed at the
University of Idaho still casts a shadow, but finally it's
starting to drift into the distance. We've been reporting on
(01:15):
the Brian Cobeger case since the very beginning, from that
first breaking news alert to every twist and turn that followed,
and now, as his story reaches its final chapter, ours
does two. In this episode, we hear from Moscow mayor
Betge on how his town once bucolic and quiet was
(01:36):
forever changed on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, and how
they're finding ways to move forward. We're also joined again
by Kaylee Gonsalvez's brother Stephen, who shares what it's been
like for his family now that the case is finally over.
But first, Stephanie Leideker, crime analyst, Body Movin and I
(01:56):
reflect on our own journeys throughout this story and how
covering the murders of Madison Mogen, Kayleie Gonzalvez, Xana Kernodle,
and Ethan Chapin have affected each of us. Here's Body, I.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Think acknowledging the emotional toll that this has taken on
everyone as important in that even if you're approaching this
case from an analytical standpoint, as I have really tried
to do and not get emotional, vicarious trauma is still
a real thing.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
It's really hard to believe that it was three years
ago because I remember so distinctly exactly when it happened.
I mean, I remember that the Christmas lights were still on.
I remember that the couch that they partied on was
still outside, that the kids congregated on, and I definitely
did not anticipate and could not have anticipated that it
(02:50):
would end the way it did in the court, that
it was a plead out up until the last minute,
after all of the negotiations and glorious motions back and forth,
that it ended with a whimper instead of a roar.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
I think when we started this project, I personally set
out to almost disprove that Brian Coburger could possibly be
the killer. It didn't make sense. You know, a PhD student,
as we've talked about so much, a loving family, someone
who had a lot of opportunity, and you know, listen
this particular case, it didn't check any of the very
(03:29):
air quote common themes. It didn't involve greed, revenge, or heartbreak.
It just didn't check any of those boxes. And I
think the fact that there didn't seem to be an
obvious motive has always frankly kept us up at night.
Brian Coberger has no real connection to any of the
(03:50):
four victims, and to me, that remains shocking. And I
think we were all scratching at trying to figure it
out or trying to have it make sense. And I
guess that's the unknowable journey that I guess we just
won't get to because there is no obvious answer. These
are four incredible humans who lost their lives seemingly senselessly,
(04:11):
and it makes us think about just randomness or you know,
crimes of opportunity. What does that mean? How is it
possible that the person who was studying crime became the
criminal himself. We still don't have a clear answer as
to why, and I think that's going to be a
bottomless pit for so many. And listen, we talk about
this very often speaking of closure. It's it's this ripple effect.
(04:35):
It's so many were affected by this, ourselves included. We're
not related to any of the victims. You know, we
don't know Madison Mogen directly. We don't know Kaylee Gonzalveez
or Xanerkernodle or Ethan Shapin, even though our hearts are
with their families. We've all been obsessed with understanding this better.
And I guess the takeaway really is that we all
(04:58):
care very much.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Often we attached to a case because it resonates with
something personal like injustice or loss, curiosity, or even just empathy,
and once we identify why it mattered to us so much,
on like a personal level. Maybe we can redirect that
same level of empathy to something important moving forward to
help us even move forward. I think it's important to
(05:23):
remember why we cared. I.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
Like everyone else, wanted answers and was on the search.
You know, we all teamed up pretty much immediately because
it just seemed like this nightmare happening in some place
so idyllic at such a perfect time in a young
person's life, when everything is still ahead, that we all
just got hyper invested. I think collectively, the whole country
(05:48):
got hyper invested. This case ripped our hearts out, and
that whole will remain right.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I think this was a case with shocking violence, and
it had this small town like backdrop, and for the
first six weeks there was this who done it kind
of mystery, and you know, the sleuthing culture that I've
been a big part of, and the combination of those
things made this case and very intriguing. And then Brian
(06:17):
Cooper gets arrested and we learn that it's a smart
criminology student, and it took on a whole new role,
and then you know, we have all this legal drama
and IgG being used in an open active case. It
just made everything very intriguing.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
The pure innocence, not that anyone deserves any death, but
they were not out stealing drugs or whatever you would.
I mean, just like perfect innocence on the absolute precipice
of the beginning of their lives. And anyone who's had
that kind of group of friends, I think there was
a relatability and even watching the videos, here's another reason
(06:54):
I think it blew up because there was so much
of them on social media. You could see them, and
you can see their loves and they're dancing.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
One of the things that I think made this case
blow up. It was this small town backdrop and this
idyllic college experience that a lot of us really wish
we would have had. This idyllic American town that has
this amazing campus, the University of Idaho. Almost became the
fifth victim because so many people that live in that
town were being harassed and accosted by media.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
And the trauma itself of the event, just knowing that
something so scary could happen so close. Remember, this is
a small neck community where people send their children because
it's so safe. That's where you're supposed to romp and
have fun at university is because there's this implied safety,
So just the fact that it's not the case is
(07:44):
also proof that this kind of thing can happen anywhere.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
And then you know, you've got crazies out there like
me wondering what's going on, probably calling the Moscow Police Department,
incessantly asking for updates, wondering when the next press conference
is coming, ceteracit et cetera. It must have been a
lot for the City of Moscow to manage.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
The town of Moscow, Idaho, took an unimaginable turn when
the murders at one one, two two King Roade occurred
on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two. One of the people
on the front lines was Moscow Mayor Art Betge. As
the city faced an onslaught of national media attention in
the aftermath of the murders and Brian Coberger's arrest, Mayor
(08:26):
Betcky served as a crucial liaison between the community and
the outside world. We spoke with Mayor Betgy to hear
his first hand account of what it was like to
lead a small college town through an unthinkable tragedy.
Speaker 6 (08:41):
When you became mayor, did you ever see your term
going in this direction.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Oh heck no. I was thinking, geez, four years of quiet,
just housekeeping things going on would be nice. And turns
out I made it for eleven months and thirteen days,
and then what I never wanted to happen did November thirteenth.
It was kind of a mediocre morning, kind of like
the snow that had fallen before was kind of melting
(09:07):
off in places, and just kind of the kind of day.
I was returning from a trip to Costco thirty five
miles away. Driving off the road, phone lights up with
a text that said there's been homicide in Moscow. Four
people have been murdered. And my first thought was, oh, brother,
this is going to be really, really bad, And so
(09:28):
got back to town and waited for more news. I
didn't want to hinder the police in their investigation, so
I just stayed right away from that and waited for
more news to come, which it sort of trickled in
for the most part unhelpfully.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
And what were your big duties in those early days
when everything was kind of come into a head.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Well, it's just provide the resources to the police that
they need to do the investigation and make sure that
the budget is freed up for the inevitable overtime and
then stay right out of their way because they certainly
have enough to do without having a politico looking over
their shoulder. So after that it was turned into the
(10:11):
point of somebody needs to speak for Moscow, and that
turned out to be me.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment. After the murders at one one two two
King Road, the quiet town of Moscow, Idaho, was instantly
flooded with national and local reporters, along with countless social
media sleuths and tik talkers, all searching for answers about
(10:44):
what happened to Madison Mogan, Kaylie Gonsalvez, Xana Kernodle, and
Ethan Chapin. In the midst of the chaos, Moscow Mayor
Art Betge stepped forward to help manage the media onslaught
and protect law enforcement from its constant demain. Here's Mayor
Art Betkey, joined by KAT Studios producer Alison Bankston.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Now to start with, I'm a biochemist, i am not
really a professional politician, and I'm certainly not a crisis communicator,
so things were difficult.
Speaker 6 (11:18):
What was it like taking on this new role, especially
coming from you know, working in biochemistry, and then all
of a sudden, it's kind of like you're the spokesperson
for the town dealing with this tragedy. What is it
like to transition into something like that?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Horrible, just awful. But a transition to an event like
this is a lot different than a transition to something about, ooh,
we're having a big festival in town or something like that.
The major problem was dealing with the national media. The
local folks are all very good, They have a vested
interest in the community, and there are neighbors already and
(11:53):
they understand. However, the national media, I don't know what's
a good analogy. I suppose the national media is like
a strip mine where they come in wreck havoc on
the environment and then leave with a big mess behind them.
And dealing with the national media, where they really care
only for a SoundBite, is difficult. It's a daunting task,
(12:18):
and trying to navigate that in a fashion that does
not demean the magnitude of the event or harm those
who are directly involved or even peripherally involved, is a
really tough task. I didn't know many of the details
of what went on and people asking with the implication
(12:39):
that I'm hiding something when I really I avoided getting
involved with the investigation so that when I said I
don't know, I don't know because I deliberately isolated myself
from the investigation and the evidence. So it was really
terrible to try to explain these people who are going, well,
we heard that, we haven't heard that. I don't know
(13:01):
what to say, so you probably know more than I do,
which was frequently the fact.
Speaker 6 (13:08):
I can't imagine someone just being like, you're hiding something.
Especially with these investigations, everything has to be so tight
lipped to protect the integrity of it. Sorry you had
to go through that, well.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Thank you. But I must give kudos to our police department.
They weathered a lot of criticism. They were extremely tight lipped.
They protected the evidence, they protected the case, They didn't
say anything that would give away the direction of the
investigation to alert the perpetrator, and frankly, they did a
(13:37):
bang up job. It was interesting watching the emails come
in where people were impugning the police department as being
a bunch of Keystone cops, inept, unable, overwhelmed, useless, botching
the investigation, and that went on until about December thirtieth,
when the rest was made, at which point the tenor
of the emails switched one hundred and eighty degrees. Brilliant
(14:00):
job they did, so great? What perfect policing things like that.
It's kind of people you all are just bonkers. And
I don't think the prevalence of social media has helped
one whit in any of this, where people can hide
behind anonymous emails make the most egregious comments.
Speaker 6 (14:18):
What was it like when ron Coberger was arrested? When
that news was revealed in Moscow? Did it feel like
a weight was lifted off of everyone's shoulders? Can you
kind of take me back to the moment that you
found out that an arrest was me.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
I knew something was coming down the pike. I was
alerted the day before that there would be something coming.
Didn't say what, just prepare yourself. But when the news
did come out, I swear there was a waft of
a breeze coming down Main Street. That was a collective
sigh of relief. And that pertains not only to the
citizens of Moscow, but the students in attendance at the
(14:51):
university here because after the Thanksgiving break a great many
of them did not come back to town on the
campus out of concern for their safety. Were starting to
get pretty worried about what is the attendance at the
university going to be at the start of the new semester.
And I will say that students make up probably about
a third of the population of Moscow. Is substantial. And
(15:14):
so when the thirtieth of December rolled around the arrest
was made, as I indicated, the tenor of everything changed drastically.
And then when school started up the eight nine of
January something like that, more students were back than had
been in attendance at spring semester of the year before,
and overall higher attendance at the university than in any
(15:38):
of the past years. So really good. So having that
arrest when it occurred, really changed the way people looked
at things, and it was the start of some sort
of return to normalcy for the city.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
Absolutely. And were you surprised that it was Brian Colberg
or someone from a neighboring college or like or what
did the community really think when they had saw this guy,
like this is the person?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Well, the first thing they said, well, who the hell
is this guy? Nobody knew he wasn't on anybody's radar.
It was just where did this guy come from? Everybody
was bamboozo. So of course, the analogy I always use
for this is from Lord of the Rings, where Sam
and Frodo were marching across the plains of Mordor to
ditch the Ring, and the Great Eye of Souran is
(16:24):
sitting there looking looking all over the place, looking at him,
looking at him, looking at him, you know, trying to
spot him. And then the guys show up at the
front gate to Mordor, and the Great I of Souran
flipped instantly. Same thing happened here. So we had all
this media attention about how inept and stupid we are,
And then as soon as Coburger's name came up as
(16:45):
a student at Washington State University over in Pullman, which
is a short six miles away, the entire media attention
flicked and was aimed square at Pullman. And it was
a weird phenomenon. The amount of the jolting change that
occurred at that point stunning, And I don't think Pullman
(17:05):
I was quite ready for it, probably more so than
we were when all of this happened. But still they
got the media attention on them, and it was tough
for them too.
Speaker 6 (17:17):
I can only imagine and for Moscow, for the community
as a whole, how were they all impacted by this tragedy.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
The impact on the community was vast because Moscow is
a pretty tightly knit town. So in Moscow you wind
up with either you knew the students or you knew
somebody who knew them, And so the whole town is
directly or just slightly indirectly associated with the students who
were murdered here. And it's something that you can't get
(17:45):
away from. And so the impact here was vaster than
it would have been in a larger city, right.
Speaker 6 (17:53):
Yeah, absolutely, And then how does the community feel about
the plea deal.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
There's a bifurcation there where some people who are interested
in retribution really wanted the death penalty. Other people who
wanted the case closed were fine with the life sentences
without a chance of ever getting out. Frankly, to me,
a death penalty judgment would have generated an endless series
(18:20):
of appeals which bring up the issues and the gory
pictures and everything else again and again and again, inflicting
further misery on the families. Friends, acquaintances of the murdered students,
And what is the point if you get a death
penalty you appeal for years. We've got one guy on
(18:41):
death row who's been there for something like thirty years,
And really, is there a whole lot of difference between
life in prison without a chance for parole and the
death penalty when you get right down to it, other
than tormenting the family and friends in appeals cases for
years and years. So I think the sooner that the
key is thrown away and the perpetrator is in jail
(19:04):
for good, that we can just scratch him off the
list and say sit there and rot right.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
And then, for you personally, it's been almost three years
since this horrible tragedy occurred. What does it feel like
to finally have this case closed, to have the perpetrator
in prison, and the thought of a lumin trial finally
passed you?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, I'm hoping that, like dropping a rock in a lake,
you get ripples coming out, large ripples at first, and
then they gradually abate, And I'm hoping for something like that.
But I'm also aware that a case like this is
going to spark media interest for a long long time
and It's also going to be memorialized in a more
(19:45):
special way around town. I'm sure every November thirteenth at
the Memorial Garden that was established at the University of
Idaho there will be ceremonies and remembrances that go on there.
So it's not going to be forgotten. But I think
over time we'll have learned the lessons. We'll treat each
other well, because everybody is going to deal with this
(20:07):
and grieve in their own fashion, and we should let
everybody have their space to do so in their own way,
and that's going to take time. The great Healer of
all things, as it were.
Speaker 6 (20:18):
How do you want people to remember Moscow after all
of this?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Oh, I think we're resilient folks here and we will
get back to doing what Moscow does best, which is
providing a lovely, safe, inviting environment to everybody who lives here.
And I do believe we'll get back to there. This
isn't just a story. This involves real human beings, the families,
the friends, and everyone directly and indirectly associated with these events.
(20:47):
And just remember that and give people some slack to
grow within themselves, change and respond to it all. So
mostly just remember these were people.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment. Madison Mogen, Kaylee Gonsalvez, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan
Shapin were bright lights, kind, loving and full of promise.
Their lives were stolen far too soon by an act
(21:25):
of pure evil, and still their families are left grappling
with the haunting question of why Why were their beloved
children robed from them? Their lives cut short without reason
or mercy. Unfortunately that answer may never come, and yet,
through unimaginable loss, these families have shown extraordinary strength, finding
(21:47):
ways to honor their loved ones and keep their memories alive.
Here's Kaylee Gonsalvez's brother, Stephen Gonsalvez, sharing how the end
of the case has impacted him and his family. He's
joined by Kate Studios producer Alison Bankston, with.
Speaker 6 (22:04):
Coberger taking his plea deal. What has it been like
these past few months, just kind of coming up for
air after living in this horror for almost three years?
What is it like to finally be at the end
of it, to just start healing.
Speaker 7 (22:18):
Yeah, I don't know. It sucks. It never should have
played out like this. I don't know. In some ways,
we just I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
I feel like I don't get closure from three hots
and a cot, and this guy gets a gym membership
for free for the rest of his life. And every
time I go to work and clock in and clock out,
those taxes go to him.
Speaker 7 (22:38):
It's a joke. It's really unfortunate. I don't know if
closure is the right word.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
I guess the silver lining of that would be that
he's not still out.
Speaker 7 (22:48):
He can't do this to any other human or any family.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
And how has all of this kind of changed you
in your family? I am so in awe of the
strength in your family and just you bound together and
you got through this horrible, horrible thing, and you have
so much resilience you in your family. And how has
this all changed you guys? And where does this resilience
come from?
Speaker 7 (23:08):
Definitely my dad. I mean my dad raised us that way.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
You're not going to complain about anything that you're not
willing to change all kinds of lessons growing up, and
you're not going to just sit there and complain. In general,
it doesn't help anything. Get up, get off your ass,
and change something. Whether that's the view or whether that's
your job or whatever it is. That that's just how
we're always raised to be strong, to be independent, to
be you know, courageous or whatnot stand up for what
(23:35):
we believe is right. We're strong and we're not gonna
let whatever you want to refer to him as break
up our family or make us cold or heard in
our hearts. It's just it's pick it up and keep
going and do what you can. You better have some
pretty fucking awesome stories to tell Kaylee when you get
to heaven and you see her.
Speaker 6 (23:53):
And what do you miss most about your sister?
Speaker 7 (23:56):
That's tough.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Kaylee was always the person to find in new spot
and we need to go, And then my.
Speaker 7 (24:02):
Dad's like, yeah, we'll go. And then she's like, Okay,
where's your car.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Because I'm going to book the flights there and I'm
going to plan our tripe.
Speaker 6 (24:11):
Well, she kind of liked them, not spokesperson, but kind
of the family ring leader, saying, you know, let's do
this together, let's do that. I feel like every family
has one of those.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Yeah, definitely. I mean she was the middle child, so
you know what about me? You know, if anyone brought
up do you want.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
To go here.
Speaker 7 (24:26):
Yeah, Kaylee wanted to go and she had already planned it,
so in a sense, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 6 (24:33):
How do you want your sister to be remembered? Would
you say?
Speaker 7 (24:36):
I just remember Kaylee as the girl who graduated high school,
went to college, went and liked the party, joined a sorority,
did everything right, even a role model for some people.
She meant as anybody would think, a lot to our family.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
As this case comes to a close, our hearts go
out to the families and friends of Medicine Mogan, Kallie Gonzalvez,
Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin their lives and the light
they brought into the world will never be forgotten. The
horror and heartbreak of that night will forever be etched
in our minds, but so will the strength, the love,
(25:16):
and the resilience shown by those left behind. Next week,
please join us as we reflect on the case as
a whole and answer some of your most pressing questions.
More on that next time. For more information on the
case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kat
(25:37):
Underscore Studios. The Idaho Massacre is produced by Stephanie Leideker,
Alison Bankston, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and
sound design by Jeff Toois, music by Jared Aston. The
Idaho Masacre is a production of Kat's Studios and iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts,
(26:01):
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
This was a case with shocking violence. I, like everyone else,
wanted answers.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Somebody needs to speak for Moscow, and that turned out
to be me.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
We're strong and we're not gonna let whatever you want
to refer to him as break up our family or
make us cold or heard in our hearts.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
This is the Idaho Massacre a production of KAT Studios
and iHeartRadio, Season three, Episode eleven. After the Headlines, I'm
Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker,
Alison Bankston, and Gabriel Castillo. After Brian Coberger pled guilty
(00:53):
last July, his name and face have slowly begun to
fade from the headlines. News feeds every hour of every
day have grown quiet. The horror he unleashed at the
University of Idaho still casts a shadow, but finally it's
starting to drift into the distance. We've been reporting on
(01:15):
the Brian Cobeger case since the very beginning, from that
first breaking news alert to every twist and turn that followed,
and now, as his story reaches its final chapter, ours
does two. In this episode, we hear from Moscow mayor
Betge on how his town once bucolic and quiet was
(01:36):
forever changed on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, and how
they're finding ways to move forward. We're also joined again
by Kaylee Gonsalvez's brother Stephen, who shares what it's been
like for his family now that the case is finally over.
But first, Stephanie Leideker, crime analyst, Body Movin and I
(01:56):
reflect on our own journeys throughout this story and how
covering the murders of Madison Mogen, Kayleie Gonzalvez, Xana Kernodle,
and Ethan Chapin have affected each of us. Here's Body, I.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Think acknowledging the emotional toll that this has taken on
everyone as important in that even if you're approaching this
case from an analytical standpoint, as I have really tried
to do and not get emotional, vicarious trauma is still
a real thing.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
It's really hard to believe that it was three years
ago because I remember so distinctly exactly when it happened.
I mean, I remember that the Christmas lights were still on.
I remember that the couch that they partied on was
still outside, that the kids congregated on, and I definitely
did not anticipate and could not have anticipated that it
(02:50):
would end the way it did in the court, that
it was a plead out up until the last minute,
after all of the negotiations and glorious motions back and forth,
that it ended with a whimper instead of a roar.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
I think when we started this project, I personally set
out to almost disprove that Brian Coburger could possibly be
the killer. It didn't make sense. You know, a PhD student,
as we've talked about so much, a loving family, someone
who had a lot of opportunity, and you know, listen
this particular case, it didn't check any of the very
(03:29):
air quote common themes. It didn't involve greed, revenge, or heartbreak.
It just didn't check any of those boxes. And I
think the fact that there didn't seem to be an
obvious motive has always frankly kept us up at night.
Brian Coberger has no real connection to any of the
(03:50):
four victims, and to me, that remains shocking. And I
think we were all scratching at trying to figure it
out or trying to have it make sense. And I
guess that's the unknowable journey that I guess we just
won't get to because there is no obvious answer. These
are four incredible humans who lost their lives seemingly senselessly,
(04:11):
and it makes us think about just randomness or you know,
crimes of opportunity. What does that mean? How is it
possible that the person who was studying crime became the
criminal himself. We still don't have a clear answer as
to why, and I think that's going to be a
bottomless pit for so many. And listen, we talk about
this very often speaking of closure. It's it's this ripple effect.
(04:35):
It's so many were affected by this, ourselves included. We're
not related to any of the victims. You know, we
don't know Madison Mogen directly. We don't know Kaylee Gonzalveez
or Xanerkernodle or Ethan Shapin, even though our hearts are
with their families. We've all been obsessed with understanding this better.
And I guess the takeaway really is that we all
(04:58):
care very much.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Often we attached to a case because it resonates with
something personal like injustice or loss, curiosity, or even just empathy,
and once we identify why it mattered to us so much,
on like a personal level. Maybe we can redirect that
same level of empathy to something important moving forward to
help us even move forward. I think it's important to
(05:23):
remember why we cared. I.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
Like everyone else, wanted answers and was on the search.
You know, we all teamed up pretty much immediately because
it just seemed like this nightmare happening in some place
so idyllic at such a perfect time in a young
person's life, when everything is still ahead, that we all
just got hyper invested. I think collectively, the whole country
(05:48):
got hyper invested. This case ripped our hearts out, and
that whole will remain right.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I think this was a case with shocking violence, and
it had this small town like backdrop, and for the
first six weeks there was this who done it kind
of mystery, and you know, the sleuthing culture that I've
been a big part of, and the combination of those
things made this case and very intriguing. And then Brian
(06:17):
Cooper gets arrested and we learn that it's a smart
criminology student, and it took on a whole new role,
and then you know, we have all this legal drama
and IgG being used in an open active case. It
just made everything very intriguing.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
The pure innocence, not that anyone deserves any death, but
they were not out stealing drugs or whatever you would.
I mean, just like perfect innocence on the absolute precipice
of the beginning of their lives. And anyone who's had
that kind of group of friends, I think there was
a relatability and even watching the videos, here's another reason
(06:54):
I think it blew up because there was so much
of them on social media. You could see them, and
you can see their loves and they're dancing.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
One of the things that I think made this case
blow up. It was this small town backdrop and this
idyllic college experience that a lot of us really wish
we would have had. This idyllic American town that has
this amazing campus, the University of Idaho. Almost became the
fifth victim because so many people that live in that
town were being harassed and accosted by media.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
And the trauma itself of the event, just knowing that
something so scary could happen so close. Remember, this is
a small neck community where people send their children because
it's so safe. That's where you're supposed to romp and
have fun at university is because there's this implied safety,
So just the fact that it's not the case is
(07:44):
also proof that this kind of thing can happen anywhere.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
And then you know, you've got crazies out there like
me wondering what's going on, probably calling the Moscow Police Department,
incessantly asking for updates, wondering when the next press conference
is coming, ceteracit et cetera. It must have been a
lot for the City of Moscow to manage.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
The town of Moscow, Idaho, took an unimaginable turn when
the murders at one one, two two King Roade occurred
on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two. One of the people
on the front lines was Moscow Mayor Art Betge. As
the city faced an onslaught of national media attention in
the aftermath of the murders and Brian Coberger's arrest, Mayor
(08:26):
Betcky served as a crucial liaison between the community and
the outside world. We spoke with Mayor Betgy to hear
his first hand account of what it was like to
lead a small college town through an unthinkable tragedy.
Speaker 6 (08:41):
When you became mayor, did you ever see your term
going in this direction.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Oh heck no. I was thinking, geez, four years of quiet,
just housekeeping things going on would be nice. And turns
out I made it for eleven months and thirteen days,
and then what I never wanted to happen did November thirteenth.
It was kind of a mediocre morning, kind of like
the snow that had fallen before was kind of melting
(09:07):
off in places, and just kind of the kind of day.
I was returning from a trip to Costco thirty five
miles away. Driving off the road, phone lights up with
a text that said there's been homicide in Moscow. Four
people have been murdered. And my first thought was, oh, brother,
this is going to be really, really bad, And so
(09:28):
got back to town and waited for more news. I
didn't want to hinder the police in their investigation, so
I just stayed right away from that and waited for
more news to come, which it sort of trickled in
for the most part unhelpfully.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
And what were your big duties in those early days
when everything was kind of come into a head.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Well, it's just provide the resources to the police that
they need to do the investigation and make sure that
the budget is freed up for the inevitable overtime and
then stay right out of their way because they certainly
have enough to do without having a politico looking over
their shoulder. So after that it was turned into the
(10:11):
point of somebody needs to speak for Moscow, and that
turned out to be me.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment. After the murders at one one two two
King Road, the quiet town of Moscow, Idaho, was instantly
flooded with national and local reporters, along with countless social
media sleuths and tik talkers, all searching for answers about
(10:44):
what happened to Madison Mogan, Kaylie Gonsalvez, Xana Kernodle, and
Ethan Chapin. In the midst of the chaos, Moscow Mayor
Art Betge stepped forward to help manage the media onslaught
and protect law enforcement from its constant demain. Here's Mayor
Art Betkey, joined by KAT Studios producer Alison Bankston.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Now to start with, I'm a biochemist, i am not
really a professional politician, and I'm certainly not a crisis communicator,
so things were difficult.
Speaker 6 (11:18):
What was it like taking on this new role, especially
coming from you know, working in biochemistry, and then all
of a sudden, it's kind of like you're the spokesperson
for the town dealing with this tragedy. What is it
like to transition into something like that?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Horrible, just awful. But a transition to an event like
this is a lot different than a transition to something about, ooh,
we're having a big festival in town or something like that.
The major problem was dealing with the national media. The
local folks are all very good, They have a vested
interest in the community, and there are neighbors already and
(11:53):
they understand. However, the national media, I don't know what's
a good analogy. I suppose the national media is like
a strip mine where they come in wreck havoc on
the environment and then leave with a big mess behind them.
And dealing with the national media, where they really care
only for a SoundBite, is difficult. It's a daunting task,
(12:18):
and trying to navigate that in a fashion that does
not demean the magnitude of the event or harm those
who are directly involved or even peripherally involved, is a
really tough task. I didn't know many of the details
of what went on and people asking with the implication
(12:39):
that I'm hiding something when I really I avoided getting
involved with the investigation so that when I said I
don't know, I don't know because I deliberately isolated myself
from the investigation and the evidence. So it was really
terrible to try to explain these people who are going, well,
we heard that, we haven't heard that. I don't know
(13:01):
what to say, so you probably know more than I do,
which was frequently the fact.
Speaker 6 (13:08):
I can't imagine someone just being like, you're hiding something.
Especially with these investigations, everything has to be so tight
lipped to protect the integrity of it. Sorry you had
to go through that, well.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Thank you. But I must give kudos to our police department.
They weathered a lot of criticism. They were extremely tight lipped.
They protected the evidence, they protected the case, They didn't
say anything that would give away the direction of the
investigation to alert the perpetrator, and frankly, they did a
(13:37):
bang up job. It was interesting watching the emails come
in where people were impugning the police department as being
a bunch of Keystone cops, inept, unable, overwhelmed, useless, botching
the investigation, and that went on until about December thirtieth,
when the rest was made, at which point the tenor
of the emails switched one hundred and eighty degrees. Brilliant
(14:00):
job they did, so great? What perfect policing things like that.
It's kind of people you all are just bonkers. And
I don't think the prevalence of social media has helped
one whit in any of this, where people can hide
behind anonymous emails make the most egregious comments.
Speaker 6 (14:18):
What was it like when ron Coberger was arrested? When
that news was revealed in Moscow? Did it feel like
a weight was lifted off of everyone's shoulders? Can you
kind of take me back to the moment that you
found out that an arrest was me.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
I knew something was coming down the pike. I was
alerted the day before that there would be something coming.
Didn't say what, just prepare yourself. But when the news
did come out, I swear there was a waft of
a breeze coming down Main Street. That was a collective
sigh of relief. And that pertains not only to the
citizens of Moscow, but the students in attendance at the
(14:51):
university here because after the Thanksgiving break a great many
of them did not come back to town on the
campus out of concern for their safety. Were starting to
get pretty worried about what is the attendance at the
university going to be at the start of the new semester.
And I will say that students make up probably about
a third of the population of Moscow. Is substantial. And
(15:14):
so when the thirtieth of December rolled around the arrest
was made, as I indicated, the tenor of everything changed drastically.
And then when school started up the eight nine of
January something like that, more students were back than had
been in attendance at spring semester of the year before,
and overall higher attendance at the university than in any
(15:38):
of the past years. So really good. So having that
arrest when it occurred, really changed the way people looked
at things, and it was the start of some sort
of return to normalcy for the city.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
Absolutely. And were you surprised that it was Brian Colberg
or someone from a neighboring college or like or what
did the community really think when they had saw this guy,
like this is the person?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Well, the first thing they said, well, who the hell
is this guy? Nobody knew he wasn't on anybody's radar.
It was just where did this guy come from? Everybody
was bamboozo. So of course, the analogy I always use
for this is from Lord of the Rings, where Sam
and Frodo were marching across the plains of Mordor to
ditch the Ring, and the Great Eye of Souran is
(16:24):
sitting there looking looking all over the place, looking at him,
looking at him, looking at him, you know, trying to
spot him. And then the guys show up at the
front gate to Mordor, and the Great I of Souran
flipped instantly. Same thing happened here. So we had all
this media attention about how inept and stupid we are,
And then as soon as Coburger's name came up as
(16:45):
a student at Washington State University over in Pullman, which
is a short six miles away, the entire media attention
flicked and was aimed square at Pullman. And it was
a weird phenomenon. The amount of the jolting change that
occurred at that point stunning, And I don't think Pullman
(17:05):
I was quite ready for it, probably more so than
we were when all of this happened. But still they
got the media attention on them, and it was tough
for them too.
Speaker 6 (17:17):
I can only imagine and for Moscow, for the community
as a whole, how were they all impacted by this tragedy.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
The impact on the community was vast because Moscow is
a pretty tightly knit town. So in Moscow you wind
up with either you knew the students or you knew
somebody who knew them, And so the whole town is
directly or just slightly indirectly associated with the students who
were murdered here. And it's something that you can't get
(17:45):
away from. And so the impact here was vaster than
it would have been in a larger city, right.
Speaker 6 (17:53):
Yeah, absolutely, And then how does the community feel about
the plea deal.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
There's a bifurcation there where some people who are interested
in retribution really wanted the death penalty. Other people who
wanted the case closed were fine with the life sentences
without a chance of ever getting out. Frankly, to me,
a death penalty judgment would have generated an endless series
(18:20):
of appeals which bring up the issues and the gory
pictures and everything else again and again and again, inflicting
further misery on the families. Friends, acquaintances of the murdered students,
And what is the point if you get a death
penalty you appeal for years. We've got one guy on
(18:41):
death row who's been there for something like thirty years,
And really, is there a whole lot of difference between
life in prison without a chance for parole and the
death penalty when you get right down to it, other
than tormenting the family and friends in appeals cases for
years and years. So I think the sooner that the
key is thrown away and the perpetrator is in jail
(19:04):
for good, that we can just scratch him off the
list and say sit there and rot right.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
And then, for you personally, it's been almost three years
since this horrible tragedy occurred. What does it feel like
to finally have this case closed, to have the perpetrator
in prison, and the thought of a lumin trial finally
passed you?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, I'm hoping that, like dropping a rock in a lake,
you get ripples coming out, large ripples at first, and
then they gradually abate, And I'm hoping for something like that.
But I'm also aware that a case like this is
going to spark media interest for a long long time
and It's also going to be memorialized in a more
(19:45):
special way around town. I'm sure every November thirteenth at
the Memorial Garden that was established at the University of
Idaho there will be ceremonies and remembrances that go on there.
So it's not going to be forgotten. But I think
over time we'll have learned the lessons. We'll treat each
other well, because everybody is going to deal with this
(20:07):
and grieve in their own fashion, and we should let
everybody have their space to do so in their own way,
and that's going to take time. The great Healer of
all things, as it were.
Speaker 6 (20:18):
How do you want people to remember Moscow after all
of this?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Oh, I think we're resilient folks here and we will
get back to doing what Moscow does best, which is
providing a lovely, safe, inviting environment to everybody who lives here.
And I do believe we'll get back to there. This
isn't just a story. This involves real human beings, the families,
the friends, and everyone directly and indirectly associated with these events.
(20:47):
And just remember that and give people some slack to
grow within themselves, change and respond to it all. So
mostly just remember these were people.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment. Madison Mogen, Kaylee Gonsalvez, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan
Shapin were bright lights, kind, loving and full of promise.
Their lives were stolen far too soon by an act
(21:25):
of pure evil, and still their families are left grappling
with the haunting question of why Why were their beloved
children robed from them? Their lives cut short without reason
or mercy. Unfortunately that answer may never come, and yet,
through unimaginable loss, these families have shown extraordinary strength, finding
(21:47):
ways to honor their loved ones and keep their memories alive.
Here's Kaylee Gonsalvez's brother, Stephen Gonsalvez, sharing how the end
of the case has impacted him and his family. He's
joined by Kate Studios producer Alison Bankston, with.
Speaker 6 (22:04):
Coberger taking his plea deal. What has it been like
these past few months, just kind of coming up for
air after living in this horror for almost three years?
What is it like to finally be at the end
of it, to just start healing.
Speaker 7 (22:18):
Yeah, I don't know. It sucks. It never should have
played out like this. I don't know. In some ways,
we just I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
I feel like I don't get closure from three hots
and a cot, and this guy gets a gym membership
for free for the rest of his life. And every
time I go to work and clock in and clock out,
those taxes go to him.
Speaker 7 (22:38):
It's a joke. It's really unfortunate. I don't know if
closure is the right word.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
I guess the silver lining of that would be that
he's not still out.
Speaker 7 (22:48):
He can't do this to any other human or any family.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
And how has all of this kind of changed you
in your family? I am so in awe of the
strength in your family and just you bound together and
you got through this horrible, horrible thing, and you have
so much resilience you in your family. And how has
this all changed you guys? And where does this resilience
come from?
Speaker 7 (23:08):
Definitely my dad. I mean my dad raised us that way.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
You're not going to complain about anything that you're not
willing to change all kinds of lessons growing up, and
you're not going to just sit there and complain. In general,
it doesn't help anything. Get up, get off your ass,
and change something. Whether that's the view or whether that's
your job or whatever it is. That that's just how
we're always raised to be strong, to be independent, to
be you know, courageous or whatnot stand up for what
(23:35):
we believe is right. We're strong and we're not gonna
let whatever you want to refer to him as break
up our family or make us cold or heard in
our hearts. It's just it's pick it up and keep
going and do what you can. You better have some
pretty fucking awesome stories to tell Kaylee when you get
to heaven and you see her.
Speaker 6 (23:53):
And what do you miss most about your sister?
Speaker 7 (23:56):
That's tough.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Kaylee was always the person to find in new spot
and we need to go, And then my.
Speaker 7 (24:02):
Dad's like, yeah, we'll go. And then she's like, Okay,
where's your car.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Because I'm going to book the flights there and I'm
going to plan our tripe.
Speaker 6 (24:11):
Well, she kind of liked them, not spokesperson, but kind
of the family ring leader, saying, you know, let's do
this together, let's do that. I feel like every family
has one of those.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Yeah, definitely. I mean she was the middle child, so
you know what about me? You know, if anyone brought
up do you want.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
To go here.
Speaker 7 (24:26):
Yeah, Kaylee wanted to go and she had already planned it,
so in a sense, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 6 (24:33):
How do you want your sister to be remembered? Would
you say?
Speaker 7 (24:36):
I just remember Kaylee as the girl who graduated high school,
went to college, went and liked the party, joined a sorority,
did everything right, even a role model for some people.
She meant as anybody would think, a lot to our family.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
As this case comes to a close, our hearts go
out to the families and friends of Medicine Mogan, Kallie Gonzalvez,
Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin their lives and the light
they brought into the world will never be forgotten. The
horror and heartbreak of that night will forever be etched
in our minds, but so will the strength, the love,
(25:16):
and the resilience shown by those left behind. Next week,
please join us as we reflect on the case as
a whole and answer some of your most pressing questions.
More on that next time. For more information on the
case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kat
(25:37):
Underscore Studios. The Idaho Massacre is produced by Stephanie Leideker,
Alison Bankston, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and
sound design by Jeff Toois, music by Jared Aston. The
Idaho Masacre is a production of Kat's Studios and iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts,
(26:01):
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Stephanie Lydecker
Courtney Armstrong
Jeff Shane
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