February 22, 2023 • 40 mins
We’ve heard about Jake Wagner's wife Elizabeth before, but now the Alaska wife testifies and she’s not holding back. As one of the most mysterious figures in this story takes center stage, new information will change the course of the trial.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
She was inside that house. She could tell you what
it was like. I mean, she told everybody what it
was like to live with the Waggers. I remember Jake
saying that they were stressed. Decisions were typically made as
a group by list making clients to leave the house
immediately from us. Friday booked, Okay, this is the Pipson Massacre.
(00:30):
Returned to Pike County season four, episode seventeen, The Elizabeth Journals.
I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie's Studios with
Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. As always, it's important to
note that George Wagner has pleaded not guilty to all charges.
His father, Billy Wagner, whose child is upcoming, has also
(00:53):
pleaded not guilty to all charges. Hours of testimony by
investigators and relatives have painted a dark picture of the
Wagner family and the contentious custody battle between Jake Wagner
and Anna Roden over their daughter. Today, one of the
most mysterious and least known figures involved in the case
takes the stand Elizabeth Armor, Jake Wagner's ex wife who
(01:15):
he met in Alaska. We've reached out to her before,
but have never spoken directly with her. We've only heard
from Elizabeth on the occasion she posted to social media.
Like Tabitha Clayton, George Wagner's ex wife, Elizabeth is one
of the few people uniquely positioned to discuss the dynamics
of the close knit Wagner family. The murder trial of
(01:40):
George Wagner the fourth continued in Pint County today with
new testimony from the ex wife of Jake Wagner. It
was one of the most anticipated moments of George Wagner's trial.
When Elizabeth armor entered the courtroom, George Wagner's eyes followed her.
He glared as she walked across the room and took
her seat to be sworn in in Martin. Sorry nervous,
(02:07):
I've said this before. We give her a lot in
that particular chair, So we'll just speak this slow and
if I say anything that you don't to understand or
is a confusing question, to let me know that. Okay,
can you please stay your name and start your last name.
(02:27):
My name is Elizabeth Armor. My last name is A. R. M. E. R.
The twenty nine year old spoke softly as she described
growing up in a religiously conservative community in eastern Tennessee
and what led to her moved to Alaska. I grew
up in almost another night community for most of my
(02:50):
teen years, and because of that, I did not have
a high school education, since they would go to eighth grade.
And so friends of mine in from the same room
that I lived on that I had kind of grown
up with a little bit. We're working with the church
there in Alaska that had like a parish school, and
(03:12):
so they had offered to help me get my high
school education because I was interested in presuming a more
standard kind of life stay. Even though Elizabeth wanted a
more traditional life, she still stayed close to her conservative
religious roots and attended a fundamentalist Baptist church in Alaska
where she met the Wagner's how did you come to
(03:35):
start attending that particular church? So that particular church was
the church that my friends from Tennessee were attending, and
that the church which had the school as far of it,
and the teachers at that school were going to give
me classes after school to help me help get up
(03:56):
to see this gen and so I was going, they're
just you know, because my friends were okay, were you
very involved with the church above the launch, like getting
a VD. I worked in the nursery sometimes, and I
say in the choir because I loved to sing. I
homeed one of the teachers with a like a Christmas
(04:21):
program versus the church for them. Okay, while you were
there in a Tenny Matt church, did you come to
learn or know some individuals known as the wag family.
I did. The Wagner family moved from Ohio to Alaska
in the summer of twenty seventeen, a little more than
(04:43):
a year after the murders. Elizabeth met them through the
church shortly after they arrived. And can you tell us
what was your first encounter with one moment? My first
memory of the Lavens was Drink and angela people who family.
But I just remember Jake and angelining the children walking
(05:04):
into church, and I remember thinking they were a couple
with a child. Okay. I didn't have any interaction with
them at that time or was that just an observation.
It's just an observation, okay. And then with their another
time where you had another awareness of that and there
(05:26):
one of their uh one and more of them. So
memory of the whatever's one was that I had come
out of the nursery for taking care of the children,
and I looked down the hallway and like Jake was
at the other end in the hallway kind of noticing me.
And then remember like feeling nervous. But I didn't really
(05:48):
have the experience with any kind of dating or anything
like that, so I thought maybe I was attracted to him.
Because I was. It was just an intense feeling. Jake
later found her on Facebook and asked Elizabeth out. Despite
her interest in Jake, Elizabeth told him she wasn't comfortable
going out with someone she didn't know. So what happened next?
(06:11):
So he made a point of introducing himself to me
personally next time when he was a church and wanted
to chat with me in the gym. Soon after Jake
and Elizabeth began dating. Their life as a couple revolved
around the church and the small community they lived in.
Sometimes we would go out and get meals just for local.
(06:32):
I wasn't with the basso restaurants. I remember getting ice
cream him very pen I think we went for walks
and you would sometimes just go for a drive. Okay,
was there a point where you learned that there were
some negative information regarding Jake and his family. Yes, so
(06:53):
shorting me up there so long and started coming to
the church, the pastor of the church the basically in
front of the church and saying that he had known
them in Ohio and that there was some kind of
news story out about them, and that they had been
bothered by the news, and that because they'd been bothered
(07:16):
by the news, they moved to Ohio to Alaska, and
that we should not really pay attention to the news
about them and just welcomed them into the community. And
did you also asked where did Jake offer an explanation
of it as well? He did, and what did he
(07:38):
describe for you at that time? He said, basically what
the pastor had, that his certainly had been had good
by the news media, that they had there was some
static on where he grew up. That was I think
ex girlfriend had been murdered and that people were putting
him under suspicion because he had dated her, and that
(08:00):
that was why it was the new story out. Okay,
And did you did you more of us accept those
exclentations from the pastor and from Jake. I did, because
the family of his loving Wood was ex law enforcement,
and so they talked with them about it, and they
(08:21):
said that basically, if there had been any truth in
these stories, they would have already been rested since it
had been two years time. As Jake and Elizabeth's relationship
grew more serious, Elizabeth meant more of his family. She
also witnessed first hand the family dynamics. So when they
(08:42):
met them, Basically, what I remember from going to their
house was that everybody was yelling. That was my impression
that everybody was yelling, and you said there was, yeah,
tell me about that. Well, just seem like everybody was
really angry and stressed and that they were all shouting.
(09:06):
I hadn't really heard people shout that loudly in my life.
And I remember Jake saying that they were stressed and
that you know, everybody was stressed. Okay, And can you
tell us was there a point where her relationship got
(09:27):
off serious with Jacob? Nine months after I met him,
he asked me to marry him. Initially, Jake promised Elizabeth
a long engagement so they could continue to get to
know each other, but according to Elizabeth, he kept changing
his timeline and pressured her to marry quickly. How did
you change, So Jake kept changing the nine wine so like.
(09:52):
Initially he said they would be engaged for two years,
and then as time went on, he kept giving reasons why,
all out, we have to move the data up, all
we have to move the data up. And he just
kept doing that over and over and over and over.
And you know, here I am in the middle of
making wendy plans and then suddenly you have to move,
and then busy and trying to manage everything. And he
(10:16):
just kept money today, off off until eventually it was
and we don't look after and ultimately what was the
reason as to why it happy? That time he said
that he was moving and that you know, basically I
was break it off or come with him. Jake told
(10:39):
Elizabeth his entire family planned on moving to a farm
in Missouri to raise camels and pigs, and that they
would have to get married quickly, which they did. Can
you tell us what happened on your wedding night? Since
I grew up Alish, basically, I wasn't actually Amish when
I grew up in that kind of lifestyle of that community,
very so their lifestyle. I had dated any money and
(11:04):
didn't have any experience with men, and so I had requested,
I know in certain terms, that we not consummate marriage
on that night, which Jake had agreed to but did
not honor. After forcing Elizabeth to have sex on their
(11:25):
wedding night, Elizabeth says, Jake demanded access to all of
her personal information. And when you say he asked you
for your personal information, what kind of personal information are
you talking about. I think account access numbers, my social
Security card numbers, my phone pass code, and at the
(11:45):
same time you also like saved my phone with his
so that he could see all of my calls and texts.
Did you also have to sign agreements prior to or
for any time? Yes, I remember angelone them asking me
(12:07):
to sign a paper that basically my understanding was that
it was to keep me from trying to get custody
of an event of the divorce. And what in the
event of the divorce? Okay, and knew they actually signed, correct,
I did, But Jake Wagner's desire to control his new
wife didn't stop there. On your wedding night. Did Jake
(12:29):
also discuss with you, did you should not have contact
with your family? He did him and tell me about that.
So two of my brothers in their early childhood had
sexually experimented with me, and I was quite young. My
(12:53):
family didn't have like sex education, so they were both
of them under the age of ten. And so the
first one had kind of approached me and appropriately when
I was three or four years old, and then none
on a completely different occasions when I was about seven
(13:16):
years old. And so because of that, Jake asked me
to contact with my family on my wedding night. Contact
with your entire family or just so two hours, I
remember it, asked my entire family. The day after the wedding,
(13:36):
all of the Wagoners accepted its newest member, Elizabeth, left
by car from Missouri. A week later after sorting out
her passport. Elizabeth joined the entire family Jake, George, Angela, Billy,
and the children living in one small, cramped hotel room.
Elizabeth was horrified at the living situation and tried to leave,
but when she left the overcrowded hotel room to call
(13:58):
her brother for help, Jake found her and brought her back.
So when I got back to the hotel room, everybody
was agitated. Angela, George, Jake had kind of confronted me
about having left the room by myself, and I said
that it wasn't really safe for me to leave the
room by myself because news reporters might be, you know,
(14:23):
outside and try to bother me or get me to
talk to her any more, something like that, And then
I needed to only the room with someone with me.
The Wagoner's time in Missouri was short. Even though Jake
promised Elizabeth they would never move back to Ohio because
of the news coverage and the police investigation. The family
(14:44):
returned a few days after failing to find a farm
in Missouri. I was unhappy about it because Jake had
basically promised me we were never going back to Ohio
because of the news story. But after being in the
hotel for I thought anything might be better. Okay, life
(15:06):
in Ohio is just as cramped and chaotic as ever.
With the entire Wagner family living under one roof, tensions
were always near a boiling point. Can you describe to
us the family dynamics when you were living there with them?
Between Jake and George and Angela, probably they interact with
each other how made all that okay? So usually interactions
(15:32):
were strained, As far as I remember, they were usually
highly stressed and emotion angry. Again, the shadowing contained The
decisions were typically made as a group, so they would
discuss what they were going to do, come to a decision,
and then that sort anybody would do. They make group decisions.
(15:56):
Though she was now a member of the Wagner family,
Elizabeth was often at to leave the room. Angela and
George Wagner particularly did not trust her. Can you tell
us about those discussions where they would her, how they
would occur. Usually they would happen in the kitchen. I
wasn't usually asked to join them. I just remember that
(16:19):
I would hear people discussing things in the kitchen, and
because it was so loud, I would hear people talking
about what they're going to do, what their plans were,
how they were going to answer certain questions where people
ask them, how do they done to use their finances?
All that in the kitchen. Okay, So those were the
(16:42):
general topics that you would hear them discussing. They would
talk about finances, how they would answer media questions or
I think of that, how they were mentioning VCI questions
or police questions about the children, or about their clothes
and shoes. Are angry, selfish young gran Piacenye okay, here's
(17:08):
Stephanie and Jeff. She makes mention of growing up kind
of amish like in her words, and I assume that
means that she was a bit insulated and that she
was maybe raised in a bit of a bubble. And
on the one hand, that would make her a prime
target for a family of predators because she's potentially naive
(17:30):
and unaware of the outside world. And on the other
side of that, we've also heard rumors that some of
the Wagners were very paranoid that she was working for
law enforcement from day one, and they just didn't trust her.
So the fact that she's opted in to be recorded
and have video to tell her story is extremely big
(17:52):
and very brave. Obviously, we can't know what she's feeling,
but to face George Wagner in court and to put
her face and likeness out there, I think says a
lot about where she is. It's also interesting steph. Obviously
we don't know what George Wagner was feeling, but we
do know that he rarely looks up or shows any
sort of emotion, and he definitely looked up at Elizabeth
(18:14):
and almost looked like he was glaring, and he then
tracked her as she walked into the courtroom. So if
we're trying to surmise what he might be feeling, he
definitely has some strong feelings about the fact that she's testifying.
When discussion stuck out, Elizabeth remembered the Wagner's talking about
creating a bulletproof bulldozer to knock down prison walls if
(18:34):
any of the Wagner's landed in jail, and she remembered
them talking about key aspects of the investigation, tell us
what discussion did you hear about. I mostly remember them
talking about tennis shoes and saying something about, like some
of you Angela and tennis shoes from Walmart, But that
(18:57):
was because they wore boots, and they kind of like
impressed that only multiple times, like do you think we
would buy tend to use it boots because we were boots?
And they mentioned it multiple times. Going back to your
living with the Wagoners, did you have whatever had conversations
(19:18):
with you about the sexual relations you were having with Jake? Yes, okay,
And can you remember what she said what specification she
discussed you? So I remember her asking if Jake and
I were trying to have a child and telling me
(19:41):
that it wasn't a good time for to have a child.
And I remember her asking if Jake and I had
sexual relations with in the room, and I remember her
suggesting that that was inappropriate. And I remember Jake and
I having that discussion, and I remember telling him that
(20:03):
I did not think it was appropriate and that he
did not listen. So you basically read that I was
at yes, and you expressed that to Jake. Yes, Angela
ever a huge of things, great party I went. You know,
(20:24):
I definitely remember it was food poisoning. She had consisd
me off Telly intentionally food poisoned the children. And was
there a time when she accused of something. Yes, there
was a time when it was brought to my attention
by Jake that she said that I had inappropriately touched
(20:48):
see And can you tell us what happens as a
result of that. So when Jake came to me and
told me that his mom but that I had touched inappropriately,
I was also informed that because of that allegation, George
(21:11):
wasn't comfortable with my living in the house, and then
I needed to go somewhere else. Ian, can you tell us.
Did you ever have a conversation with both Jakie and
Angela about these specific allegations? Yes, Ian, can you tell
(21:32):
us what happened during that conversation or what we said.
Elizabeth described this heated conversation as the final showdown between
her and the Wagner family and the moment she knew
she had to get away from them as soon as possible.
Jake said that he didn't believe I had done it,
but that you know, I need to explain myself because
(21:55):
Angela believed that I had appropriately. She was acting very
high and mighty so this week, and I was very shocked,
and I remember Jake questioning me very starting me like
did you do this? And held it out very clearly
(22:16):
to me that if I had done it, that the
right thing to do would be to create Lucille the
baseball map from The Walking Dead and string me up
in the barn, beat me to death with the baseball bat,
both those the barn writ it down and hunt down
(22:40):
and killed my family. And then if he didn't do it,
his mom would do it. If his mom didn't do it,
his dad would do it, or George would do it,
or Billy or you know, He just kept saying, any
of them would be willing to do this because something
that right to do. Elizabeth says, she went to her room,
(23:06):
packed her bag and called a friend for help. I
was making friends to leave the house immediately. I'm as
rid the going to Okay, We're going to take a break.
We'll be back in a moment. Elizabeth Armor was determined
(23:31):
to flee Jake and the rest of the Wagoners. Elizabeth
began pushing back against the Wagner's rules, taking walks to
the library and the local cemetery. She also kept a
diary thanking one and if you could go ahead and
look at and first of all, probably if that is
what is showing on the screen, and fus my general
(23:55):
edes okay, go ahead, and your granddaddy. The people I
live with are all right, I guess They're constantly yelling
and hitting, and not one of them understands the concept
or need for privacy. Even the most private of all
(24:19):
human doings are open for discussion and comment. In this family.
It grates on my nerves. Also, nobody seems to understand
basic ownership, okay, and can tell us is that one
of the general entries that you have written that was
(24:41):
discovered by other people living in the hall. Yes, and
were you speaking about them in that journal entry we
start speaking about George, Jake, Angela, Tune, Dick and Angela. Yeah, okay.
The prosecution then as Elizabeth to read another entry about
(25:02):
the Wagner family. Dear Granddaddy, I try so hard not
to hate people. Proof of this is that, out of
my entire crazy big family, there are only two people
I truly hate. But now, Granddaddy, there are free Annual,
(25:23):
Isaac and Angela. I'm going to call her miss Angela
because the name fits her anyways. Miss Angela is horrible
for all these reasons. One she married unwisely and believes
all marriages destined to end like hers. Two she has
(25:49):
her fingers in my husband's pocket book and makes exorbitant
demands on his salary, holding her own quote unquote, gets
in help over his head like a claw to emphasize
her demands. Three she has more say over my life
(26:13):
right now than I do, because she controls my husband
through his child. Four she verbally abuses and yells insinuations
at my husband, which he doesn't understand but I do.
Five she dislikes and ridicules books, and she how to
(26:37):
reach less That that says since because she is a
manipulative liar, she is teaching our daughters to manipulate and lie. Seven.
My husband would listen to her far rather than to me,
(26:58):
because she has raised his daughter thus far. Eight She
believes me to be a replica of Tavy and treats
me as such. She has insinuated several ms that she
expects me to poison her. Nine she has repeatedly declared
(27:26):
that she will see to it that she will always
prefer to be with her and never accept me as
her mama. Ken she has threatened with my husband with
custody battles. Eleven. The most horrible thing is I have
(27:47):
her totally within my power. All I would have to
do would be to tell people she did it to
get away from her abusive mother, and I would get
her a lifetime sentence like that. Only thing is, much
as I hate the woman Scotts, it would not be true. Twelve.
(28:13):
She allows and encourages the minds of thesty Thirteen She
treats the children second, work first in kids, second, continuing
the same donary entry to want me to read in Fourteen,
(28:35):
she keeps tabs on me, always watching and listening to
see where I am thirteen and having to live in
her house under her direct control and condescension. Plan to
cross her, want to treat her only commonly and respectfully,
(28:56):
to try to become her friend. She's like Wonda, so
she really only respects working. I'm sorry, my handry is terrible.
Working three, be nice because I'm bigger than her, or
(29:18):
once I have her trust in friendship, slam the relationship
door and shut in her eyes. She likens hips food, animals,
guarding money, money, money, her kids, grandkids, working, cooking, figers,
and hospitality. She sends him about her weight and appearance.
(29:43):
She either was physically abused of or else mistreated in
her childhood. Basically Walm bosses want Indians. Elizabeth tried to
hide her diary from the Wagoners, but they later found
it and confronted her. What they asked you to do
with these items? What says ended you with them? I
(30:05):
think it was Angela and Jake, and I feel like
George was in near mind possibly read up. That's all Bye,
don't remember exactly that there's some of those things for
me wrote because the media or in the police or
somebody might get a hold of what I had wrote,
And so they asked if I would burn the journal
(30:28):
and flush it down the toilet and some to it
than I did. The Wagoner's demand for control over Elizabeth
led to more threats against her life. Indicated that on
your wedding night, Jake indicated that you should cut off
contact with your family. Was there ever a time where
(30:48):
he told you what would happen if one of them
showed up at your house? Yes? And what did he say?
And said that he would kill them? Determined to leave,
Elizabeth began making arrangements with her father to escape. On
July sixth of twenty eighteen, less than four months after
(31:09):
Mary and Jake, Elizabeth fled the Wagoner's grip. Can you
tell us what happened on the day to be batch?
We drove, We offered the parking lot. I walked into
the Walmart, changed my gloves halfway through the Walmart minute
(31:31):
changing statient so that I wouldn't look the same, and
left out the back through the entire section cause I
was a great They were following me and it was concerned,
and go into the into car, picked the same corner
out of my phone because I was concerned that was
(31:51):
being tracked, and my father was there in the car,
and we drove down a bunch of sun roads and
hit the car for a period of time, and then
when we knew we weren't being followed, we drove to
a restaurant where I switched vehicles and my friend depicted
(32:13):
me up and took me the rest of the way
to Virginia. Elizabeth Armer fled the Wagners and initiated a divorce.
George Wagner's defense team cross examined her and questioned Elizabeth
about her relationship with George and how serious a person
he was. You didn't really know him at all, lass,
(32:34):
I'm m in at church that once or twice you
saw him tu? Yeah? And did you have long conversations
with him at the church? Yeah? So you met him
at the church once or twice, retroduced him after Jake,
after Jake had proposed to you, and then you helped pack.
That's kind of the extent of your contact with George
(32:56):
when you were in a last Is that fair? Okay.
Soon after escaping to Virginia, Elizabeth testified she was contacted
by BCI agents and asked note only about Angela and Jake,
but also George. During cross examination, the defense question Armour
about her interviews with BCI agents after she left the family,
(33:18):
asking her whether she thought those threats were real during
that interview, the right, during the interview in Virginia, and
that one of the things about George was like, how
(33:41):
is that right? Yes? As Elizabeth answers from across the courtroom,
George Wagner is seen smiling. He seems to enjoy being
described this way. Yes, perhaps, yes, all right, topics that
(34:02):
you've disapproved of. He didn't approve these type of They
were quite prude, very rude, right, you want to do
things about jewelers. Is that not only would he tell
you the drugs or say, not only would he say
these drugs, but he said other things. And and you
(34:27):
came to an opinion that you got he was kind
of a blow on that type of say. And we
have to look up the definition of blow hard, but
that sounds reasonable, Okay. He would say things he really
didn't had blown off steed. I'm not sure if he
meant them or not. I don't want to infer his meaning, okay.
(34:51):
And when you talked to the officers in Virginia, they asked,
you can you tell us about Polurge is not your
kind of person. He seems that not the kind of
person I would feel safe because he's because of the
(35:13):
best interest of wars and not determinive choice in that area.
That would be my reason for that feel uncomfortable with
definitely one of my reasons. Okay, here's Jeff speaking with
forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan. What do you make of
George kind of smiling, he shows so little emotion and
(35:36):
he sort of lights up when he's talking about his
sexist jokes and calling women horse and stuff. Is that
I mean that must be That's a pretty bad luck. Yeah,
it is, particularly when you're sitting there and you know
you've got a panel of twelve people that are trying
to side what's going to happen with the rest of
your life. You know, you're in a five for year life. Literally.
(35:56):
It's powerful in the sense that you see you George's
behavior exhibited before them, So if it wasn't accented before,
then it's dan well accented after that. When he smirks
about this, maybe giggles a little bit, you know, and
you know in a very you know, the same way
that some middle school child. It's like he has no
(36:17):
self awareness at that point in Tom, he has no
self awareness of what he's up here. We're going to
take a break. We'll be back in a moment. George
Wagner's defense attorney, John Parker continued to press Elizabeth about
(36:39):
whether or not she thought George was someone she took
serious or someone who simply ran his mouth. Just a
couple of part one interviewing you in Virginia, so that
would have been drive twenty eighteen after you left time.
They asked you about George particular. They as you when
(37:03):
George specifically would talk about what he would do, what
would he say that he was going to do with
those people if he got his hands on them. I
believe your response flaws. He would say things like, if
I had my way, we wouldn't be hiding out like this,
we would be stormy Mike Dwayne's office. Hundred of them,
(37:25):
and as you know, just blows. The Agrian asked you,
is that what you perceived them to be? You didn't
perceive them to be viable threats you thought? And your
answer was, I thought they're just blows, just like blowing
off sleep. Do you recall that, I do recall that
(37:45):
in your name. But Elizabeth later corrected the defense lawyer
and insisted that she was as scared of George Wagner
as any of the others. And when you left Ohio
after twenty eighteen, you were escaping from Angela. I believe
myself to here again, Jeff and Joseph Scott Morgan. And
(38:11):
do you think is she an effective witness to the prosecution.
I think she is an excellent witness for the prosecution,
you know, and I'm a friends with guy, as you
well know. But to have this kind of circumstantial witness
that's up there where they can kind of paint a
picture of what life is like on the inside. You
can have all the blood evidence in the world that
(38:31):
you want, you can have all the ballistic evidents that
you want in the world. You can see bodies rip shreds,
But when you have a person that survived it is
there to tell the tale. She's potentially a nail in
a coffin. More on that next time. For more information
on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram
(38:53):
at Kati Underscore Studios. The Pithon Masker is produced by
Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane Connor, how Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo
and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff
Ti Music by Jared Aston. The Pike did Maasacar is
a production of iHeart Radio and Kati Studios. For more
(39:15):
podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Please welcome
Mark Fite County, Dogwood Festival. Queen Lord, I just thank
you for bringing us all together as a community. Okay,
(39:37):
all said Gus all over the house? Who could have
killed eight family members in one life? I lost my
best friends and I will never be the same because
of that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA, no witnesses.
The killer left those children laying in their mother's blood.
(40:00):
The word that comes to mind is overkill. Who was
the master mind? I'm telling you is a framer. I'm
not sitting in prison. One thing I learned. The smaller
the town, the bigger the sacreds. Be sure to watch
our upcoming documentary The Pike County Murders, a family Massacre,
(40:22):
premiering on NBC Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on
Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend November twenty fourth and November
twenty fifth. Please check your local listings and our hearts
are with the Rodents and the Gilly families.
She was inside that house. She could tell you what
it was like. I mean, she told everybody what it
was like to live with the Waggers. I remember Jake
saying that they were stressed. Decisions were typically made as
a group by list making clients to leave the house
immediately from us. Friday booked, Okay, this is the Pipson Massacre.
(00:30):
Returned to Pike County season four, episode seventeen, The Elizabeth Journals.
I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie's Studios with
Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. As always, it's important to
note that George Wagner has pleaded not guilty to all charges.
His father, Billy Wagner, whose child is upcoming, has also
(00:53):
pleaded not guilty to all charges. Hours of testimony by
investigators and relatives have painted a dark picture of the
Wagner family and the contentious custody battle between Jake Wagner
and Anna Roden over their daughter. Today, one of the
most mysterious and least known figures involved in the case
takes the stand Elizabeth Armor, Jake Wagner's ex wife who
(01:15):
he met in Alaska. We've reached out to her before,
but have never spoken directly with her. We've only heard
from Elizabeth on the occasion she posted to social media.
Like Tabitha Clayton, George Wagner's ex wife, Elizabeth is one
of the few people uniquely positioned to discuss the dynamics
of the close knit Wagner family. The murder trial of
(01:40):
George Wagner the fourth continued in Pint County today with
new testimony from the ex wife of Jake Wagner. It
was one of the most anticipated moments of George Wagner's trial.
When Elizabeth armor entered the courtroom, George Wagner's eyes followed her.
He glared as she walked across the room and took
her seat to be sworn in in Martin. Sorry nervous,
(02:07):
I've said this before. We give her a lot in
that particular chair, So we'll just speak this slow and
if I say anything that you don't to understand or
is a confusing question, to let me know that. Okay,
can you please stay your name and start your last name.
(02:27):
My name is Elizabeth Armor. My last name is A. R. M. E. R.
The twenty nine year old spoke softly as she described
growing up in a religiously conservative community in eastern Tennessee
and what led to her moved to Alaska. I grew
up in almost another night community for most of my
(02:50):
teen years, and because of that, I did not have
a high school education, since they would go to eighth grade.
And so friends of mine in from the same room
that I lived on that I had kind of grown
up with a little bit. We're working with the church
there in Alaska that had like a parish school, and
(03:12):
so they had offered to help me get my high
school education because I was interested in presuming a more
standard kind of life stay. Even though Elizabeth wanted a
more traditional life, she still stayed close to her conservative
religious roots and attended a fundamentalist Baptist church in Alaska
where she met the Wagner's how did you come to
(03:35):
start attending that particular church? So that particular church was
the church that my friends from Tennessee were attending, and
that the church which had the school as far of it,
and the teachers at that school were going to give
me classes after school to help me help get up
(03:56):
to see this gen and so I was going, they're
just you know, because my friends were okay, were you
very involved with the church above the launch, like getting
a VD. I worked in the nursery sometimes, and I
say in the choir because I loved to sing. I
homeed one of the teachers with a like a Christmas
(04:21):
program versus the church for them. Okay, while you were
there in a Tenny Matt church, did you come to
learn or know some individuals known as the wag family.
I did. The Wagner family moved from Ohio to Alaska
in the summer of twenty seventeen, a little more than
(04:43):
a year after the murders. Elizabeth met them through the
church shortly after they arrived. And can you tell us
what was your first encounter with one moment? My first
memory of the Lavens was Drink and angela people who family.
But I just remember Jake and angelining the children walking
(05:04):
into church, and I remember thinking they were a couple
with a child. Okay. I didn't have any interaction with
them at that time or was that just an observation.
It's just an observation, okay. And then with their another
time where you had another awareness of that and there
(05:26):
one of their uh one and more of them. So
memory of the whatever's one was that I had come
out of the nursery for taking care of the children,
and I looked down the hallway and like Jake was
at the other end in the hallway kind of noticing me.
And then remember like feeling nervous. But I didn't really
(05:48):
have the experience with any kind of dating or anything
like that, so I thought maybe I was attracted to him.
Because I was. It was just an intense feeling. Jake
later found her on Facebook and asked Elizabeth out. Despite
her interest in Jake, Elizabeth told him she wasn't comfortable
going out with someone she didn't know. So what happened next?
(06:11):
So he made a point of introducing himself to me
personally next time when he was a church and wanted
to chat with me in the gym. Soon after Jake
and Elizabeth began dating. Their life as a couple revolved
around the church and the small community they lived in.
Sometimes we would go out and get meals just for local.
(06:32):
I wasn't with the basso restaurants. I remember getting ice
cream him very pen I think we went for walks
and you would sometimes just go for a drive. Okay,
was there a point where you learned that there were
some negative information regarding Jake and his family. Yes, so
(06:53):
shorting me up there so long and started coming to
the church, the pastor of the church the basically in
front of the church and saying that he had known
them in Ohio and that there was some kind of
news story out about them, and that they had been
bothered by the news, and that because they'd been bothered
(07:16):
by the news, they moved to Ohio to Alaska, and
that we should not really pay attention to the news
about them and just welcomed them into the community. And
did you also asked where did Jake offer an explanation
of it as well? He did, and what did he
(07:38):
describe for you at that time? He said, basically what
the pastor had, that his certainly had been had good
by the news media, that they had there was some
static on where he grew up. That was I think
ex girlfriend had been murdered and that people were putting
him under suspicion because he had dated her, and that
(08:00):
that was why it was the new story out. Okay,
And did you did you more of us accept those
exclentations from the pastor and from Jake. I did, because
the family of his loving Wood was ex law enforcement,
and so they talked with them about it, and they
(08:21):
said that basically, if there had been any truth in
these stories, they would have already been rested since it
had been two years time. As Jake and Elizabeth's relationship
grew more serious, Elizabeth meant more of his family. She
also witnessed first hand the family dynamics. So when they
(08:42):
met them, Basically, what I remember from going to their
house was that everybody was yelling. That was my impression
that everybody was yelling, and you said there was, yeah,
tell me about that. Well, just seem like everybody was
really angry and stressed and that they were all shouting.
(09:06):
I hadn't really heard people shout that loudly in my life.
And I remember Jake saying that they were stressed and
that you know, everybody was stressed. Okay, And can you
tell us was there a point where her relationship got
(09:27):
off serious with Jacob? Nine months after I met him,
he asked me to marry him. Initially, Jake promised Elizabeth
a long engagement so they could continue to get to
know each other, but according to Elizabeth, he kept changing
his timeline and pressured her to marry quickly. How did
you change, So Jake kept changing the nine wine so like.
(09:52):
Initially he said they would be engaged for two years,
and then as time went on, he kept giving reasons why,
all out, we have to move the data up, all
we have to move the data up. And he just
kept doing that over and over and over and over.
And you know, here I am in the middle of
making wendy plans and then suddenly you have to move,
and then busy and trying to manage everything. And he
(10:16):
just kept money today, off off until eventually it was
and we don't look after and ultimately what was the
reason as to why it happy? That time he said
that he was moving and that you know, basically I
was break it off or come with him. Jake told
(10:39):
Elizabeth his entire family planned on moving to a farm
in Missouri to raise camels and pigs, and that they
would have to get married quickly, which they did. Can
you tell us what happened on your wedding night? Since
I grew up Alish, basically, I wasn't actually Amish when
I grew up in that kind of lifestyle of that community,
very so their lifestyle. I had dated any money and
(11:04):
didn't have any experience with men, and so I had requested,
I know in certain terms, that we not consummate marriage
on that night, which Jake had agreed to but did
not honor. After forcing Elizabeth to have sex on their
(11:25):
wedding night, Elizabeth says, Jake demanded access to all of
her personal information. And when you say he asked you
for your personal information, what kind of personal information are
you talking about. I think account access numbers, my social
Security card numbers, my phone pass code, and at the
(11:45):
same time you also like saved my phone with his
so that he could see all of my calls and texts.
Did you also have to sign agreements prior to or
for any time? Yes, I remember angelone them asking me
(12:07):
to sign a paper that basically my understanding was that
it was to keep me from trying to get custody
of an event of the divorce. And what in the
event of the divorce? Okay, and knew they actually signed, correct,
I did, But Jake Wagner's desire to control his new
wife didn't stop there. On your wedding night. Did Jake
(12:29):
also discuss with you, did you should not have contact
with your family? He did him and tell me about that.
So two of my brothers in their early childhood had
sexually experimented with me, and I was quite young. My
(12:53):
family didn't have like sex education, so they were both
of them under the age of ten. And so the
first one had kind of approached me and appropriately when
I was three or four years old, and then none
on a completely different occasions when I was about seven
(13:16):
years old. And so because of that, Jake asked me
to contact with my family on my wedding night. Contact
with your entire family or just so two hours, I
remember it, asked my entire family. The day after the wedding,
(13:36):
all of the Wagoners accepted its newest member, Elizabeth, left
by car from Missouri. A week later after sorting out
her passport. Elizabeth joined the entire family Jake, George, Angela, Billy,
and the children living in one small, cramped hotel room.
Elizabeth was horrified at the living situation and tried to leave,
but when she left the overcrowded hotel room to call
(13:58):
her brother for help, Jake found her and brought her back.
So when I got back to the hotel room, everybody
was agitated. Angela, George, Jake had kind of confronted me
about having left the room by myself, and I said
that it wasn't really safe for me to leave the
room by myself because news reporters might be, you know,
(14:23):
outside and try to bother me or get me to
talk to her any more, something like that, And then
I needed to only the room with someone with me.
The Wagoner's time in Missouri was short. Even though Jake
promised Elizabeth they would never move back to Ohio because
of the news coverage and the police investigation. The family
(14:44):
returned a few days after failing to find a farm
in Missouri. I was unhappy about it because Jake had
basically promised me we were never going back to Ohio
because of the news story. But after being in the
hotel for I thought anything might be better. Okay, life
(15:06):
in Ohio is just as cramped and chaotic as ever.
With the entire Wagner family living under one roof, tensions
were always near a boiling point. Can you describe to
us the family dynamics when you were living there with them?
Between Jake and George and Angela, probably they interact with
each other how made all that okay? So usually interactions
(15:32):
were strained, As far as I remember, they were usually
highly stressed and emotion angry. Again, the shadowing contained The
decisions were typically made as a group, so they would
discuss what they were going to do, come to a decision,
and then that sort anybody would do. They make group decisions.
(15:56):
Though she was now a member of the Wagner family,
Elizabeth was often at to leave the room. Angela and
George Wagner particularly did not trust her. Can you tell
us about those discussions where they would her, how they
would occur. Usually they would happen in the kitchen. I
wasn't usually asked to join them. I just remember that
(16:19):
I would hear people discussing things in the kitchen, and
because it was so loud, I would hear people talking
about what they're going to do, what their plans were,
how they were going to answer certain questions where people
ask them, how do they done to use their finances?
All that in the kitchen. Okay, So those were the
(16:42):
general topics that you would hear them discussing. They would
talk about finances, how they would answer media questions or
I think of that, how they were mentioning VCI questions
or police questions about the children, or about their clothes
and shoes. Are angry, selfish young gran Piacenye okay, here's
(17:08):
Stephanie and Jeff. She makes mention of growing up kind
of amish like in her words, and I assume that
means that she was a bit insulated and that she
was maybe raised in a bit of a bubble. And
on the one hand, that would make her a prime
target for a family of predators because she's potentially naive
(17:30):
and unaware of the outside world. And on the other
side of that, we've also heard rumors that some of
the Wagners were very paranoid that she was working for
law enforcement from day one, and they just didn't trust her.
So the fact that she's opted in to be recorded
and have video to tell her story is extremely big
(17:52):
and very brave. Obviously, we can't know what she's feeling,
but to face George Wagner in court and to put
her face and likeness out there, I think says a
lot about where she is. It's also interesting steph. Obviously
we don't know what George Wagner was feeling, but we
do know that he rarely looks up or shows any
sort of emotion, and he definitely looked up at Elizabeth
(18:14):
and almost looked like he was glaring, and he then
tracked her as she walked into the courtroom. So if
we're trying to surmise what he might be feeling, he
definitely has some strong feelings about the fact that she's testifying.
When discussion stuck out, Elizabeth remembered the Wagner's talking about
creating a bulletproof bulldozer to knock down prison walls if
(18:34):
any of the Wagner's landed in jail, and she remembered
them talking about key aspects of the investigation, tell us
what discussion did you hear about. I mostly remember them
talking about tennis shoes and saying something about, like some
of you Angela and tennis shoes from Walmart, But that
(18:57):
was because they wore boots, and they kind of like
impressed that only multiple times, like do you think we
would buy tend to use it boots because we were boots?
And they mentioned it multiple times. Going back to your
living with the Wagoners, did you have whatever had conversations
(19:18):
with you about the sexual relations you were having with Jake? Yes, okay,
And can you remember what she said what specification she
discussed you? So I remember her asking if Jake and
I were trying to have a child and telling me
(19:41):
that it wasn't a good time for to have a child.
And I remember her asking if Jake and I had
sexual relations with in the room, and I remember her
suggesting that that was inappropriate. And I remember Jake and
I having that discussion, and I remember telling him that
(20:03):
I did not think it was appropriate and that he
did not listen. So you basically read that I was
at yes, and you expressed that to Jake. Yes, Angela
ever a huge of things, great party I went. You know,
(20:24):
I definitely remember it was food poisoning. She had consisd
me off Telly intentionally food poisoned the children. And was
there a time when she accused of something. Yes, there
was a time when it was brought to my attention
by Jake that she said that I had inappropriately touched
(20:48):
see And can you tell us what happens as a
result of that. So when Jake came to me and
told me that his mom but that I had touched inappropriately,
I was also informed that because of that allegation, George
(21:11):
wasn't comfortable with my living in the house, and then
I needed to go somewhere else. Ian, can you tell us.
Did you ever have a conversation with both Jakie and
Angela about these specific allegations? Yes, Ian, can you tell
(21:32):
us what happened during that conversation or what we said.
Elizabeth described this heated conversation as the final showdown between
her and the Wagner family and the moment she knew
she had to get away from them as soon as possible.
Jake said that he didn't believe I had done it,
but that you know, I need to explain myself because
(21:55):
Angela believed that I had appropriately. She was acting very
high and mighty so this week, and I was very shocked,
and I remember Jake questioning me very starting me like
did you do this? And held it out very clearly
(22:16):
to me that if I had done it, that the
right thing to do would be to create Lucille the
baseball map from The Walking Dead and string me up
in the barn, beat me to death with the baseball bat,
both those the barn writ it down and hunt down
(22:40):
and killed my family. And then if he didn't do it,
his mom would do it. If his mom didn't do it,
his dad would do it, or George would do it,
or Billy or you know, He just kept saying, any
of them would be willing to do this because something
that right to do. Elizabeth says, she went to her room,
(23:06):
packed her bag and called a friend for help. I
was making friends to leave the house immediately. I'm as
rid the going to Okay, We're going to take a break.
We'll be back in a moment. Elizabeth Armor was determined
(23:31):
to flee Jake and the rest of the Wagoners. Elizabeth
began pushing back against the Wagner's rules, taking walks to
the library and the local cemetery. She also kept a
diary thanking one and if you could go ahead and
look at and first of all, probably if that is
what is showing on the screen, and fus my general
(23:55):
edes okay, go ahead, and your granddaddy. The people I
live with are all right, I guess They're constantly yelling
and hitting, and not one of them understands the concept
or need for privacy. Even the most private of all
(24:19):
human doings are open for discussion and comment. In this family.
It grates on my nerves. Also, nobody seems to understand
basic ownership, okay, and can tell us is that one
of the general entries that you have written that was
(24:41):
discovered by other people living in the hall. Yes, and
were you speaking about them in that journal entry we
start speaking about George, Jake, Angela, Tune, Dick and Angela. Yeah, okay.
The prosecution then as Elizabeth to read another entry about
(25:02):
the Wagner family. Dear Granddaddy, I try so hard not
to hate people. Proof of this is that, out of
my entire crazy big family, there are only two people
I truly hate. But now, Granddaddy, there are free Annual,
(25:23):
Isaac and Angela. I'm going to call her miss Angela
because the name fits her anyways. Miss Angela is horrible
for all these reasons. One she married unwisely and believes
all marriages destined to end like hers. Two she has
(25:49):
her fingers in my husband's pocket book and makes exorbitant
demands on his salary, holding her own quote unquote, gets
in help over his head like a claw to emphasize
her demands. Three she has more say over my life
(26:13):
right now than I do, because she controls my husband
through his child. Four she verbally abuses and yells insinuations
at my husband, which he doesn't understand but I do.
Five she dislikes and ridicules books, and she how to
(26:37):
reach less That that says since because she is a
manipulative liar, she is teaching our daughters to manipulate and lie. Seven.
My husband would listen to her far rather than to me,
(26:58):
because she has raised his daughter thus far. Eight She
believes me to be a replica of Tavy and treats
me as such. She has insinuated several ms that she
expects me to poison her. Nine she has repeatedly declared
(27:26):
that she will see to it that she will always
prefer to be with her and never accept me as
her mama. Ken she has threatened with my husband with
custody battles. Eleven. The most horrible thing is I have
(27:47):
her totally within my power. All I would have to
do would be to tell people she did it to
get away from her abusive mother, and I would get
her a lifetime sentence like that. Only thing is, much
as I hate the woman Scotts, it would not be true. Twelve.
(28:13):
She allows and encourages the minds of thesty Thirteen She
treats the children second, work first in kids, second, continuing
the same donary entry to want me to read in Fourteen,
(28:35):
she keeps tabs on me, always watching and listening to
see where I am thirteen and having to live in
her house under her direct control and condescension. Plan to
cross her, want to treat her only commonly and respectfully,
(28:56):
to try to become her friend. She's like Wonda, so
she really only respects working. I'm sorry, my handry is terrible.
Working three, be nice because I'm bigger than her, or
(29:18):
once I have her trust in friendship, slam the relationship
door and shut in her eyes. She likens hips food, animals,
guarding money, money, money, her kids, grandkids, working, cooking, figers,
and hospitality. She sends him about her weight and appearance.
(29:43):
She either was physically abused of or else mistreated in
her childhood. Basically Walm bosses want Indians. Elizabeth tried to
hide her diary from the Wagoners, but they later found
it and confronted her. What they asked you to do
with these items? What says ended you with them? I
(30:05):
think it was Angela and Jake, and I feel like
George was in near mind possibly read up. That's all Bye,
don't remember exactly that there's some of those things for
me wrote because the media or in the police or
somebody might get a hold of what I had wrote,
And so they asked if I would burn the journal
(30:28):
and flush it down the toilet and some to it
than I did. The Wagoner's demand for control over Elizabeth
led to more threats against her life. Indicated that on
your wedding night, Jake indicated that you should cut off
contact with your family. Was there ever a time where
(30:48):
he told you what would happen if one of them
showed up at your house? Yes? And what did he say?
And said that he would kill them? Determined to leave,
Elizabeth began making arrangements with her father to escape. On
July sixth of twenty eighteen, less than four months after
(31:09):
Mary and Jake, Elizabeth fled the Wagoner's grip. Can you
tell us what happened on the day to be batch?
We drove, We offered the parking lot. I walked into
the Walmart, changed my gloves halfway through the Walmart minute
(31:31):
changing statient so that I wouldn't look the same, and
left out the back through the entire section cause I
was a great They were following me and it was concerned,
and go into the into car, picked the same corner
out of my phone because I was concerned that was
(31:51):
being tracked, and my father was there in the car,
and we drove down a bunch of sun roads and
hit the car for a period of time, and then
when we knew we weren't being followed, we drove to
a restaurant where I switched vehicles and my friend depicted
(32:13):
me up and took me the rest of the way
to Virginia. Elizabeth Armer fled the Wagners and initiated a divorce.
George Wagner's defense team cross examined her and questioned Elizabeth
about her relationship with George and how serious a person
he was. You didn't really know him at all, lass,
(32:34):
I'm m in at church that once or twice you
saw him tu? Yeah? And did you have long conversations
with him at the church? Yeah? So you met him
at the church once or twice, retroduced him after Jake,
after Jake had proposed to you, and then you helped pack.
That's kind of the extent of your contact with George
(32:56):
when you were in a last Is that fair? Okay.
Soon after escaping to Virginia, Elizabeth testified she was contacted
by BCI agents and asked note only about Angela and Jake,
but also George. During cross examination, the defense question Armour
about her interviews with BCI agents after she left the family,
(33:18):
asking her whether she thought those threats were real during
that interview, the right, during the interview in Virginia, and
that one of the things about George was like, how
(33:41):
is that right? Yes? As Elizabeth answers from across the courtroom,
George Wagner is seen smiling. He seems to enjoy being
described this way. Yes, perhaps, yes, all right, topics that
(34:02):
you've disapproved of. He didn't approve these type of They
were quite prude, very rude, right, you want to do
things about jewelers. Is that not only would he tell
you the drugs or say, not only would he say
these drugs, but he said other things. And and you
(34:27):
came to an opinion that you got he was kind
of a blow on that type of say. And we
have to look up the definition of blow hard, but
that sounds reasonable, Okay. He would say things he really
didn't had blown off steed. I'm not sure if he
meant them or not. I don't want to infer his meaning, okay.
(34:51):
And when you talked to the officers in Virginia, they asked,
you can you tell us about Polurge is not your
kind of person. He seems that not the kind of
person I would feel safe because he's because of the
(35:13):
best interest of wars and not determinive choice in that area.
That would be my reason for that feel uncomfortable with
definitely one of my reasons. Okay, here's Jeff speaking with
forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan. What do you make of
George kind of smiling, he shows so little emotion and
(35:36):
he sort of lights up when he's talking about his
sexist jokes and calling women horse and stuff. Is that
I mean that must be That's a pretty bad luck. Yeah,
it is, particularly when you're sitting there and you know
you've got a panel of twelve people that are trying
to side what's going to happen with the rest of
your life. You know, you're in a five for year life. Literally.
(35:56):
It's powerful in the sense that you see you George's
behavior exhibited before them, So if it wasn't accented before,
then it's dan well accented after that. When he smirks
about this, maybe giggles a little bit, you know, and
you know in a very you know, the same way
that some middle school child. It's like he has no
(36:17):
self awareness at that point in Tom, he has no
self awareness of what he's up here. We're going to
take a break. We'll be back in a moment. George
Wagner's defense attorney, John Parker continued to press Elizabeth about
(36:39):
whether or not she thought George was someone she took
serious or someone who simply ran his mouth. Just a
couple of part one interviewing you in Virginia, so that
would have been drive twenty eighteen after you left time.
They asked you about George particular. They as you when
(37:03):
George specifically would talk about what he would do, what
would he say that he was going to do with
those people if he got his hands on them. I
believe your response flaws. He would say things like, if
I had my way, we wouldn't be hiding out like this,
we would be stormy Mike Dwayne's office. Hundred of them,
(37:25):
and as you know, just blows. The Agrian asked you,
is that what you perceived them to be? You didn't
perceive them to be viable threats you thought? And your
answer was, I thought they're just blows, just like blowing
off sleep. Do you recall that, I do recall that
(37:45):
in your name. But Elizabeth later corrected the defense lawyer
and insisted that she was as scared of George Wagner
as any of the others. And when you left Ohio
after twenty eighteen, you were escaping from Angela. I believe
myself to here again, Jeff and Joseph Scott Morgan. And
(38:11):
do you think is she an effective witness to the prosecution.
I think she is an excellent witness for the prosecution,
you know, and I'm a friends with guy, as you
well know. But to have this kind of circumstantial witness
that's up there where they can kind of paint a
picture of what life is like on the inside. You
can have all the blood evidence in the world that
(38:31):
you want, you can have all the ballistic evidents that
you want in the world. You can see bodies rip shreds,
But when you have a person that survived it is
there to tell the tale. She's potentially a nail in
a coffin. More on that next time. For more information
on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram
(38:53):
at Kati Underscore Studios. The Pithon Masker is produced by
Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane Connor, how Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo
and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff
Ti Music by Jared Aston. The Pike did Maasacar is
a production of iHeart Radio and Kati Studios. For more
(39:15):
podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Please welcome
Mark Fite County, Dogwood Festival. Queen Lord, I just thank
you for bringing us all together as a community. Okay,
(39:37):
all said Gus all over the house? Who could have
killed eight family members in one life? I lost my
best friends and I will never be the same because
of that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA, no witnesses.
The killer left those children laying in their mother's blood.
(40:00):
The word that comes to mind is overkill. Who was
the master mind? I'm telling you is a framer. I'm
not sitting in prison. One thing I learned. The smaller
the town, the bigger the sacreds. Be sure to watch
our upcoming documentary The Pike County Murders, a family Massacre,
(40:22):
premiering on NBC Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on
Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend November twenty fourth and November
twenty fifth. Please check your local listings and our hearts
are with the Rodents and the Gilly families.
Hosts And Creators
Stephanie Lydecker
Courtney Armstrong
Jeff Shane
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