August 20, 2025 • 29 mins
After nearly three years in silence, Bryan Kohberger shocks the nation—pleading guilty just weeks before his death penalty trial, trading the shadow of execution for a life behind bars.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Bombshell development Brian Cooberger appearing set to accept a plea
deal just five weeks before his quadruple murder trial was
set to start. Brian Coberger was simply out of options
and out of time.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Why did the prosecution take this? They were holding all
the cards.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
He essentially gets to live rent free, no expenses, for
the rest of his life, and we call that justice.
It's insane.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
This is the Idaho Massacre, A production of KAT Studios
and iHeartRadio, Season three, Episode one, The Plea Deal. I'm
Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Leideger
and Gabriel Castillo.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Are you pleading guilty because you are guilty?
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Yes. After nearly three years of silence, nine hundred and
sixty two days of unanswered questions and national headlines, the
moment finally came. In a Boise courtroom under harsh fluorescent lights,
thirty year old Brian Coberger, a former pH d student
(01:20):
at Washington State University, stood before a judge and admitted
to the brutal murders of Madison Mogen, Kaylie Gonsalvez, Xana Kernodle,
and Ethan Chapin. He showed no emotion, no hesitation, and
offered no explanation. In exchange for avoiding the death penalty,
(01:42):
he accepted four life sentences without parole. There was no apology,
no remorse, just a chilling end to a case that
shattered a community and gripped the nations.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
To Count two murder in the first degree three as
it relates to the murder of Madison Mogan, how do
you plead guilty or not guilty guilty as to count three?
As it relates to murder in the first degree for
the murder of Kaylee Gunslvus, How do you plead guilty
or not guilty guilty as to count four? The first
degree murder of Xana Kernodle a human being? How do
(02:18):
you plead guilty or not guilty guilty as to count five?
The first degree murder of Ethan Chapin a human being?
How do you plead guilty or not guilty guilty?
Speaker 4 (02:32):
We've spent the past two and a half years asking
the same haunting questions. Could Brian Colberger, a man with
academic promise and a seemingly bright future, really be responsible
for one of the most shocking mass murders in recent memory.
Colberger was arrested on December thirtieth, twenty twenty two, in
his home in Pennsylvania, following a nationwide manhunt. Investigators tied
(02:57):
him to the crime scene a house in Moscow, Idaho,
where four University of Idaho students were brutally murdered. They
did this using DNA, cell phone data, vehicle tracking, and
surveillance footage. But even now, the most chilling questions remain, why,
(03:19):
Why that house, Why those four students? Was this random
or planned? Was he stalking them? Who was his intended target?
And now a new question, why did he plead guilty
after months of denials and courtroom silence? What made him
(03:42):
change course? Was its strategy, fear, remorse or something else Entirely,
we know the how and the when, but the why
still echoes through a grieving community. Until that answer comes,
all we can do is sift through the theories, searching
(04:05):
for the truth. Here's Stephanie speaking with crime analyst Body Moven.
Speaker 6 (04:16):
We've been tracking this case closely, candidly.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
We're all a little.
Speaker 6 (04:19):
Shook at this exact moment. It's pretty earth shattering. Brian Coberger,
who has been accused of murdering for college students at
the University of Idaho. He has admitted to killing four
students that he seemingly has no connection to. This clown
just decides that the gig is up. I've wasted everybody's time,
(04:40):
all of Idaho's resources. I've been in the press, maybe
enjoying it every step of the way, and every single
thing that we thought was possibly maybe not true, or
we maybe hoped for the sake of humanity, wasn't true.
It seems as though this riddle has been solved and
the boogeyman is Brian Coburger, and we are so sad.
I don't even know where to start with it.
Speaker 7 (04:59):
It's it's so hard to imagine that this guy is,
this dork, let's be honest, you know, is capable of
this kind of madness. But I have to say I'm
not shocked. I'm a little surprised that this happened. But
there was a May fifteenth hearing and the judge did
say that the best offer would have to be done
(05:20):
at the end of June early July, and here we are.
The last day of June. The defense approached the state
about a plea and it was accepted.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Here's journalist an Jeannette Levy with the Law and Crime Network.
An Jeannette has been following this case from the beginning.
She's joined by one of our producers, Alison Bankston.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I just thought to myself, there's no way the state
of Idaho is going to make a deal on this.
How could the state of Idaho when they say they've
got all of this evidence, it appears to be a strong,
circumstantial case. How could they make a deal in this
case when you have somebody who they were saying, crossed
(06:05):
into their state and murdered for college kids, you know,
some in their sleep, I mean, attacked them in the
middle of the night. How on earth could you make
a deal? What message does that send? But then maybe
Brian Coberger gets scared when when the grim reality of
going to trial and sitting there for three months with
(06:30):
all of the media attentions. You know, somebody who appears
to be very introverted, how does he sit in the
glare of the media spotlight for three months? You know,
will he come to the realization that I very well
could be convicted and at some point in my life
face the possibility of being walked down that long hallway
(06:51):
to the firing squad. So part of me was surprised,
part of me wasn't when he pleaded guilty.
Speaker 8 (06:58):
I completely agree why it happened. Then what are you
some of your theories on why that decided that this
is the time for him to plea.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I believe that Brian Coberger was simply out of options
and out of time. His request for a continuance had
been denied. The judge denied his motion to introduce four
alternate perpetrators at trial. He was asking to point the
finger at four people, three of whom were in the
friend group of the victims. One was a guy who
(07:28):
tried to approach Kaylie at the grocery on an occasion,
thought she was pretty or whatever. All of these people
provided DNA, All of these people handed over their phones
to law enforcement, and so his defenses were narrowing. He
had no alibi. The judge was not going to give
the alibi instruction. So that was out. The driving around stargazing,
no dice there. He had no some other dude did
(07:50):
it defense. He didn't have that. It was he was
going to have to go the OJ route. Planted evidence.
The sheath was planted. It was somebody else in a
white car that looks just like mine, so he had
nothing else going on.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Author and veteran investigative journalist Howard Blum recently wrote a
piece for Vanity Fairs air Mail magazine exploring the possible
reasons behind Brian Coberger's surprising decision to plead guilty. Here's
Howard Now.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
According to my reporting earlier on in the case, Coburger's
legal team and Taylor had come to the realization that
their client was not going to win this case, so
they approached Brian Coberger and said, we'd like you to
consider taking a plea deal. He spoke with his mother.
His mother said no. Why she said no? The speculation
(08:49):
is that she actually at that point believed her son
was innocent. Fast forward then to last May. Last May,
there was a special on NBC's Dateline show in Full Transparency.
I was part of that show, and I appeared on
the show talking about the case talking head. But what
they had uncovered was that approximately two hours after the murderers,
(09:13):
Coburger had made a six a m phone call to
a number tied to a phone that was in the
name of Coburger's father, Michael Coburger. My reporting indicated that
during this fifty four minute phone call nearly an hour,
just two hours after the murder. I speculate he spoke
largely with his mother. What was said on that conversation,
(09:35):
who he spoke to I can only speculate, But according
to my reporting, he and his mother had this involved conversation.
And now that it had been revealed to the world,
now they had made known, the Coburger family had no doubt,
no doubt that this would come up at trial. They
would have to go on the stand and answer questions
about this phone call, probing questions under oath. So when
(09:59):
this was explained into Coburger by Anne Taylor, now, in
his own irrational way, something akin to remorse, and he
felt that he put his family through one version of
hell already. He did not want to put them in
legal jeopardy too. Plus he'd be able to save his life.
So he went to Ann Taylor and said, yeah, let's
see if we can make a deal. What's now more
(10:21):
astounding to me? Why did the prosecution take this? As
I said before, they were holding all the cards. Well, again,
I'm sort of forced to speculate. You can say that
every veteran prosecutor knows that every trial is a roll
of the dice. You never know what one witness out
there will be harboring reasonable doubt that could just destroy
(10:44):
your entire case, destroy your chance for a conviction. However,
what I feel, and I believe this, is that Bill Thompson,
the prosecutor, after nearly three years on this horrific, dispiriting case,
I just sort of lost the will, He lost the
appetite for a courtroom battle, and he was ready to say, okay,
(11:06):
let's settle it. He goes away to jail forever and
the state can move on. I can move on, Bill Thompson,
with my life, and for all I know, he wanted
to spend the summer of fishing rather than three months
in the courtroom.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment. The families of the victims met with the
prosecution a week before to discuss the possibility of a plea,
but not all of the families were in agreement. One
(11:43):
of those families was the Gonsolves family. Here's victim Kelley
Gonsalvez's brother Stephen, reflecting on his sister and the impact
her loss had on those who loved her most. He's
joined by producer Alison Bankston.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Was essentially a more intelligent, more sociable, better version of
me in a lot of ways. You know, being her
older brother, I kind of had to look out for
and protect her. And you know, I'll miss the days
of receiving calls no matter how bad the news was
from her, you know, breakups, everything like that, just being
(12:21):
there to be either a shoulder to cry on or
having to go talk to some stupid boyfriend. Kaylee originally
she wanted to be a lawyer, which is somehow now ironic,
but then she kind of switched up into more of
a general education. She was just applying for jobs knowing
it was her last semester there at UI, and she
(12:42):
got an IT job that was down in Austin. Kaylee
was intelligent. She was very charismatic so to speak, and
was able to facilitate that in a way where she'd
be able to maybe get into positions without knowing exactly
what she was going to do, but find find a
way to get to the resolution that she was looking for.
Speaker 8 (13:04):
I love that she chased the job out in Austin.
The ambition is wonderful, true. It truly is Can you
tell me a little bit about her and Mattie's friendship.
I know that they had a beautiful, beautiful friendship starting
from a young age. Can you tell me a little.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Bit about that they've been best friends since sixth grade.
I believe it was we were all going to private
schools back then, and that was really all she wrote.
They were essentially inseparable their friendship. I'd like to say
it's something that a lot of people think they have
but don't. Maddie and Keeley really had each other's back.
(13:38):
They were always looking out for each other's best interests.
Mattie was more soft spoken, she was there, I say, kinder,
and Kaylee was more you know, this is what we want.
I'm going to find a way to get this. I
guess that's how I would describe the Yin and yang thing.
They had. Obviously their similarities, but they also had this
(14:02):
discrepancy where they were almost polar opposites, but in a
way that kind of match each other perfect.
Speaker 8 (14:07):
I think that's what makes those type of friendships so great,
is that you know, if the people are too similar,
they're going to clash. So just a little bit of
differences makes the pieces fit together. So that was a
beautiful way to describe it.
Speaker 9 (14:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 8 (14:20):
And can you often tell me about their time at
the University of Idaho, Like what do they love about
the university? What made them excited about it?
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Sure, I can't speak too much to that because sororities
are a little bit different than fraternities. I was in
a fraternity down there. They were obviously in their respective sororities.
Kaylee got a fee, Maddy got pi fi. They joined
and they were just heartbroken that they weren't going to
be in the same sorority. And at that time I
(14:49):
was rushing as well. I had joined a fraternity. I
didn't do too well in the fraternity. I'm not great
with stingent rules. It just didn't work for me. And
I had left after a year and I told Kaylee,
I was like, you're gonna hate this. You're gonna absolutely
hate this. I know your personality. And she ended up
(15:09):
not necessarily hating it, but hating all the rules in
the things, the guides you have to follow. And that's
why they ended up getting an apartment. Kailee, I believe,
moved out first. She got an apartment at what's called
the Whites. Actually not far from King Road at all.
We're talking one hundred feet or so. And then they
got the house on King Road together.
Speaker 8 (15:31):
With King Road. Do you remember when Kaylee first told
you that she was going to move in there? It's
how excited were they to all kind of move into this.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Place with anything in a big family. It wasn't like
some big announcement that she was moving into this home.
In fact, I don't recall if she ever even told me,
but I know they were happy to finally coalesce once
again and be together. I can be certain of that.
Speaker 8 (15:55):
Let's get into the plea deal because my heart breaks
for you guys on that. Where were you, guys when
you found out that this was going on? Can you
take me back to that moment when you found out
that a plea deal had been reached.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I wasn't involved in this meeting, but from what I've
heard from my parents, my siblings, there was a meeting
had on Friday, because we had them weekly with the
prosecution to go over updates and whatnot with the case.
And there was a meeting and right at the end
of the meeting, they kind of slipped it in. They go, hey,
and if a plea deal were offered, How would you
feel about that? All of my family obviously answered no,
(16:27):
We've made our opinion very clear about the plea. There's
no confusion to be had, and they're like, okay, okay.
And then it would have been June twenty ninth and
we were out, we were having dinner at a restaurant
over here, and we found out prosecution had made some
decisions for us where they were willing to I don't
(16:48):
want to say sacrifice, but for the lack of a
better word for souls for permanent daycare, for an adult
prison daycare. He has commissary, he has a that he
can work out. He's going to be with a lot
of similarly minded people. He essentially gets to live rent free,
no expenses, for the rest of his life. And we
(17:09):
call that justice. It's insane. They knew we wouldn't agree
with it, and they made it pretty clear they weren't
too concerned with how we felt about the whole situation.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
In a letter that the prosecution sent to the families,
according to new sources, he said that they weighed heavily
the family and their decision making quote, we cannot fathom
the toll that this has taken on your family. This
resolution is our sincere attempt to seek justice for your family.
This agreement ensures that the defendant will be convicted, will
(17:40):
spend the rest of his life in prison, and will
not be able to put you and the other families
through the uncertainty of decades of post conviction appeals that's.
Speaker 7 (17:49):
Going to be considered. I mean, with a death penalty case,
there's appeal after appeal after appeal, and as a family
member of a victim, you're going to want to go
to those appeals. That's in your to be reliving this
over and over and over again. And you know, honestly,
I'm sure they relive it every day right now. They've
been living in suspended animation for the last two and
a half years.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Here's Prosecutor Bill Thompson speaking with KTVW News.
Speaker 10 (18:17):
Every case stands on its own merits, and every case
that my office is handled since I took office thirty
three years ago, has been decided based on what is
unique to that case. I understand and I respect the
feelings of some of the families of the family members
who don't agree with our decision. I honestly do, but
(18:38):
there are also others who feel like they have received
some comfort and some closure from this, and in the
end it has to be the prosecutor's decision.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
It was July second, twenty twenty five, a muggy summer
morning in Boise, Idaho. Temperatures had climbed into the nineties
as crowds began to gather outside the Ada County Courthouse.
Members of the press, local onlookers, and out of town
spectators packed the front steps, hoping to catch a glimpse
(19:14):
of the man who'd been at the center of a
national nightmare. For nearly three years. The question of who
killed four University of Idaho's students had loomed heavy over Moscow,
Idaho and beyond. And now the man accused of that crime,
thirty year old Brian Christopher Coburger, was about to walk
(19:36):
into the court and plead guilty to all five counts.
He was facing four counts of first degree murder and
one count of burglary. The moment was historic and emotional.
It also raised a new wave of questions. Here again,
(19:57):
producer Alison Bankston with Lawn Crime journalists an Jeannette Levy,
you actually.
Speaker 8 (20:05):
Were at Ryan Colberger's plea hearing.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
You had a really good feat I did. It was crazy.
Speaker 8 (20:10):
You can paint a picture for me what it was
like going into that plea hearing on that Wednesday.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Going into the plea hearing, it was very intense because
you knew that Xanna's mother supported the plea agreement. Again,
solve family, of course did not support the plea agreement,
but Matti Mogan's family supported it, as did Ethan Shapin.
So it was very heavy. You're walking in there and
you know that you're walking into something where there's a
(20:35):
lot of contention. And I walked in and we were
told exactly where to sit. And then Brian Coburger walked in.
I could tell immediately his hair was kind of buzzed
on the sides. You know, he looked like he was
prepared for a big event, shirt and tie. Of course.
Khaki's his mother Mary Anne, and father Michael were over
(20:56):
to my left. The victims were all over on the
other side of the court room to the right. He
came in no restraints, sat down, talked to his lawyers
very briefly, and then the hearings started. Bill Thompson in
court went through what he called a written factual basis,
and this was really them presenting to the court what
they believed the evidence would show a trial. And he
(21:18):
said basically that, you know, Brian Coburger bought this k
bar knife on Amazon using a gift card of all things,
in March, and then in late June or early July,
he moves to Pullman, Washington to pursue his PhD in
criminology and criminal justice, and for some reason, Brian Coburger
starts making these trips to the Moscow area. And you know,
(21:43):
they have this evidence that shows that on twenty three
occasions between July and the week before the murders, Brian
Coberger's phone is within a football field of that house
on King Road. It was always late at night, between
ten pm and four am, painting this picture of a nightstalker,
(22:03):
somebody who was kind of circling this neighborhood and possibly
this house like a vulture looking for prey. And he
said basically that Brian Coburger on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two,
went over to King Road in his Hyundai A Lantra,
circled the area, then parked in an upper parking lot
above the house at King Road.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Here's Prosecutor Bill Thompson in the courtroom.
Speaker 10 (22:33):
Entered the residence, went to the third floor and with
a knife killed Madison Bogan and Kyle Getzalos. The defendant
as he left that room for whatever reason, ended up
leaving or the sheath for a k bar knife was
left on the bed next to Madison Molden's body, and
(22:53):
I can jump ahead. That sheath was tested by the
Iaho State Police forensic clab and singles male DNA was
found on the snap of that sheaf. The state's evidence
would show that Xana Canodle was still awake at this time,
in fact, had taken a door dash order not long
before this started. Her room was not on the third floor,
(23:14):
it was on the second floor on the west side.
As the defendant was either coming down the stairs or leaving,
he encountered Xanna and he ended up killing her also
with a large knife. He's in Chapin. Xana's boyfriend was
asleep in their bedroom in her bedroom and the defendant
(23:35):
killed him as well with a large big knife. Each
victim suffered multiple wounds.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
He walked through the kitchen out the backslider door. They
find him. In Pennsylvania, you know they're surveilling him. And
then his vehicle is parked in his parents' garage and
they find a bucket next to the vehicle and they
say basically they took that vehicle apart and that it
had been cleaned. It was spotless. They also searched his
(24:08):
apartment and they said it was spartan. There was no
evidence of any of these students, no blood, no DNA
belonging to any of these victims in either his car
or in his apartment. There was no social media connection,
There was no connection between Brian Coburger and these victims. So,
(24:29):
I mean, what he outlined sound like something out of
a horror movie. This is a real life horror movie.
What struck me was the fact that Brian Coburger barely
blinked the entire time that Bill Thompson was going through
his statement of facts about what they believed the evidence
(24:49):
at trial would have proved. And he barely blinked. Brian
Coberger barely blinked. It was as if he was transfixed
by what Bill Thompson was saying. But he seemed almost
like in a trance, And I was like, is he
listening so intently to see if Bill Thompson gets every
(25:10):
fact right, you know, was he reliving the night as
Bill Thompson was going through all of this information? So
I was stunned by that.
Speaker 8 (25:20):
Just the idea of him listening to Bill Thompson's factual
basis and like reliving it is such a creepy thought.
Oh my god. I think you're right though. I think
that probably is what he was doing. And did we
learn anything new from his written factual basis? I know
that's it was almost like reciting the Affiday that his
written factual basis.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
There really wasn't a lot of new information that we learned.
I think that people were expecting a little more meat
on the bone. I mean, obviously what he painted was
a pretty compelling picture as far as circumstantial evidence goes.
But I think that people were expecting maybe a little
bit more information about the crime and how it occurred.
(25:59):
You know, you've been investigating it for more than two
years now. There has to be more evidence. There has
to be more that they were going to present a
trial that they just haven't talked about yet. You know,
the cards that they're keeping close to the vest for
whatever reason.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
Let's stop here for another break. We'll be back in
a moment. Here's crime analyst, body move in and conversation
with former homicide prosecutor Jarrett Farantino. Farantino is a seasoned
trial attorney who's handled hundreds of plea deals over the
(26:39):
course of his career. He has prosecuted some of the
most complex and high stakes cases in the country, including
multiple death penalty trials.
Speaker 9 (26:50):
If I was the prosecutor, I would want an elocution.
I would want Colberger to say affirmatively I killed Xanna, Maddie, Ethan,
and Kayley. I want to hear him say it. And
that could be part of the plea agreement.
Speaker 7 (27:03):
And that would happen at sentencing, like right before sentencing, right.
Speaker 9 (27:07):
It could, and it could happen in response to the victims' families.
He could apologize to them. He could acknowledge that he
did it. We may never know why. And I think
some of the things I'm seeing online, they're asking is
it an Alford plea? You know that I've heard that too.
Speaker 7 (27:20):
Why do people think that?
Speaker 6 (27:22):
What does that mean?
Speaker 9 (27:22):
So that that's the name of the case out of
North Carolina from nineteen seventy, the Supreme Court basically said
a guilty. TLEA could be accepted if a defendant doesn't
admit the criminal act. As long as they're saying I
acknowledge there's enough evidence against me, and I'm going to
likely be convicted. You can go out. It's exactly how
(27:42):
they got out. But those now, if I'm the prosecutor
in this case, if I'm Bill Thompson, I don't accept
an alford. I'm not taking death off the table until
you bring some closure and some accountability to these families.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Does Coberger or anyone who is in his position, do
they need to or is it customary for them to
give details of X happened and then why happened? Or
are they under no obligation to explain the events of
the night.
Speaker 11 (28:11):
He has the right to stay silent. My hope is
he apologizes for what he did. He could explain why
he did what he did. I don't expect that, though.
Speaker 12 (28:23):
I think he's going to be pretty tight lippt as
to why, because you know, it's one thing to admit
these crimes, it's another thing to admit these strange fantasies
that you're carrying out.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow
us on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios. The Idaho Massacre
is produced by Stephanie Leideker, Alison Bankston, Gabriel Castillo and
me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Twas,
Music by Jared Aston. The Idaho Masacre is a production
(28:57):
of Kat's Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like this,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Bombshell development Brian Cooberger appearing set to accept a plea
deal just five weeks before his quadruple murder trial was
set to start. Brian Coberger was simply out of options
and out of time.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Why did the prosecution take this? They were holding all
the cards.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
He essentially gets to live rent free, no expenses, for
the rest of his life, and we call that justice.
It's insane.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
This is the Idaho Massacre, A production of KAT Studios
and iHeartRadio, Season three, Episode one, The Plea Deal. I'm
Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Leideger
and Gabriel Castillo.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Are you pleading guilty because you are guilty?
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Yes. After nearly three years of silence, nine hundred and
sixty two days of unanswered questions and national headlines, the
moment finally came. In a Boise courtroom under harsh fluorescent lights,
thirty year old Brian Coberger, a former pH d student
(01:20):
at Washington State University, stood before a judge and admitted
to the brutal murders of Madison Mogen, Kaylie Gonsalvez, Xana Kernodle,
and Ethan Chapin. He showed no emotion, no hesitation, and
offered no explanation. In exchange for avoiding the death penalty,
(01:42):
he accepted four life sentences without parole. There was no apology,
no remorse, just a chilling end to a case that
shattered a community and gripped the nations.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
To Count two murder in the first degree three as
it relates to the murder of Madison Mogan, how do
you plead guilty or not guilty guilty as to count three?
As it relates to murder in the first degree for
the murder of Kaylee Gunslvus, How do you plead guilty
or not guilty guilty as to count four? The first
degree murder of Xana Kernodle a human being? How do
(02:18):
you plead guilty or not guilty guilty as to count five?
The first degree murder of Ethan Chapin a human being?
How do you plead guilty or not guilty guilty?
Speaker 4 (02:32):
We've spent the past two and a half years asking
the same haunting questions. Could Brian Colberger, a man with
academic promise and a seemingly bright future, really be responsible
for one of the most shocking mass murders in recent memory.
Colberger was arrested on December thirtieth, twenty twenty two, in
his home in Pennsylvania, following a nationwide manhunt. Investigators tied
(02:57):
him to the crime scene a house in Moscow, Idaho,
where four University of Idaho students were brutally murdered. They
did this using DNA, cell phone data, vehicle tracking, and
surveillance footage. But even now, the most chilling questions remain, why,
(03:19):
Why that house, Why those four students? Was this random
or planned? Was he stalking them? Who was his intended target?
And now a new question, why did he plead guilty
after months of denials and courtroom silence? What made him
(03:42):
change course? Was its strategy, fear, remorse or something else Entirely,
we know the how and the when, but the why
still echoes through a grieving community. Until that answer comes,
all we can do is sift through the theories, searching
(04:05):
for the truth. Here's Stephanie speaking with crime analyst Body Moven.
Speaker 6 (04:16):
We've been tracking this case closely, candidly.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
We're all a little.
Speaker 6 (04:19):
Shook at this exact moment. It's pretty earth shattering. Brian Coberger,
who has been accused of murdering for college students at
the University of Idaho. He has admitted to killing four
students that he seemingly has no connection to. This clown
just decides that the gig is up. I've wasted everybody's time,
(04:40):
all of Idaho's resources. I've been in the press, maybe
enjoying it every step of the way, and every single
thing that we thought was possibly maybe not true, or
we maybe hoped for the sake of humanity, wasn't true.
It seems as though this riddle has been solved and
the boogeyman is Brian Coburger, and we are so sad.
I don't even know where to start with it.
Speaker 7 (04:59):
It's it's so hard to imagine that this guy is,
this dork, let's be honest, you know, is capable of
this kind of madness. But I have to say I'm
not shocked. I'm a little surprised that this happened. But
there was a May fifteenth hearing and the judge did
say that the best offer would have to be done
(05:20):
at the end of June early July, and here we are.
The last day of June. The defense approached the state
about a plea and it was accepted.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Here's journalist an Jeannette Levy with the Law and Crime Network.
An Jeannette has been following this case from the beginning.
She's joined by one of our producers, Alison Bankston.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I just thought to myself, there's no way the state
of Idaho is going to make a deal on this.
How could the state of Idaho when they say they've
got all of this evidence, it appears to be a strong,
circumstantial case. How could they make a deal in this
case when you have somebody who they were saying, crossed
(06:05):
into their state and murdered for college kids, you know,
some in their sleep, I mean, attacked them in the
middle of the night. How on earth could you make
a deal? What message does that send? But then maybe
Brian Coberger gets scared when when the grim reality of
going to trial and sitting there for three months with
(06:30):
all of the media attentions. You know, somebody who appears
to be very introverted, how does he sit in the
glare of the media spotlight for three months? You know,
will he come to the realization that I very well
could be convicted and at some point in my life
face the possibility of being walked down that long hallway
(06:51):
to the firing squad. So part of me was surprised,
part of me wasn't when he pleaded guilty.
Speaker 8 (06:58):
I completely agree why it happened. Then what are you
some of your theories on why that decided that this
is the time for him to plea.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I believe that Brian Coberger was simply out of options
and out of time. His request for a continuance had
been denied. The judge denied his motion to introduce four
alternate perpetrators at trial. He was asking to point the
finger at four people, three of whom were in the
friend group of the victims. One was a guy who
(07:28):
tried to approach Kaylie at the grocery on an occasion,
thought she was pretty or whatever. All of these people
provided DNA, All of these people handed over their phones
to law enforcement, and so his defenses were narrowing. He
had no alibi. The judge was not going to give
the alibi instruction. So that was out. The driving around stargazing,
no dice there. He had no some other dude did
(07:50):
it defense. He didn't have that. It was he was
going to have to go the OJ route. Planted evidence.
The sheath was planted. It was somebody else in a
white car that looks just like mine, so he had
nothing else going on.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Author and veteran investigative journalist Howard Blum recently wrote a
piece for Vanity Fairs air Mail magazine exploring the possible
reasons behind Brian Coberger's surprising decision to plead guilty. Here's
Howard Now.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
According to my reporting earlier on in the case, Coburger's
legal team and Taylor had come to the realization that
their client was not going to win this case, so
they approached Brian Coberger and said, we'd like you to
consider taking a plea deal. He spoke with his mother.
His mother said no. Why she said no? The speculation
(08:49):
is that she actually at that point believed her son
was innocent. Fast forward then to last May. Last May,
there was a special on NBC's Dateline show in Full Transparency.
I was part of that show, and I appeared on
the show talking about the case talking head. But what
they had uncovered was that approximately two hours after the murderers,
(09:13):
Coburger had made a six a m phone call to
a number tied to a phone that was in the
name of Coburger's father, Michael Coburger. My reporting indicated that
during this fifty four minute phone call nearly an hour,
just two hours after the murder. I speculate he spoke
largely with his mother. What was said on that conversation,
(09:35):
who he spoke to I can only speculate, But according
to my reporting, he and his mother had this involved conversation.
And now that it had been revealed to the world,
now they had made known, the Coburger family had no doubt,
no doubt that this would come up at trial. They
would have to go on the stand and answer questions
about this phone call, probing questions under oath. So when
(09:59):
this was explained into Coburger by Anne Taylor, now, in
his own irrational way, something akin to remorse, and he
felt that he put his family through one version of
hell already. He did not want to put them in
legal jeopardy too. Plus he'd be able to save his life.
So he went to Ann Taylor and said, yeah, let's
see if we can make a deal. What's now more
(10:21):
astounding to me? Why did the prosecution take this? As
I said before, they were holding all the cards. Well, again,
I'm sort of forced to speculate. You can say that
every veteran prosecutor knows that every trial is a roll
of the dice. You never know what one witness out
there will be harboring reasonable doubt that could just destroy
(10:44):
your entire case, destroy your chance for a conviction. However,
what I feel, and I believe this, is that Bill Thompson,
the prosecutor, after nearly three years on this horrific, dispiriting case,
I just sort of lost the will, He lost the
appetite for a courtroom battle, and he was ready to say, okay,
(11:06):
let's settle it. He goes away to jail forever and
the state can move on. I can move on, Bill Thompson,
with my life, and for all I know, he wanted
to spend the summer of fishing rather than three months
in the courtroom.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment. The families of the victims met with the
prosecution a week before to discuss the possibility of a plea,
but not all of the families were in agreement. One
(11:43):
of those families was the Gonsolves family. Here's victim Kelley
Gonsalvez's brother Stephen, reflecting on his sister and the impact
her loss had on those who loved her most. He's
joined by producer Alison Bankston.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Was essentially a more intelligent, more sociable, better version of
me in a lot of ways. You know, being her
older brother, I kind of had to look out for
and protect her. And you know, I'll miss the days
of receiving calls no matter how bad the news was
from her, you know, breakups, everything like that, just being
(12:21):
there to be either a shoulder to cry on or
having to go talk to some stupid boyfriend. Kaylee originally
she wanted to be a lawyer, which is somehow now ironic,
but then she kind of switched up into more of
a general education. She was just applying for jobs knowing
it was her last semester there at UI, and she
(12:42):
got an IT job that was down in Austin. Kaylee
was intelligent. She was very charismatic so to speak, and
was able to facilitate that in a way where she'd
be able to maybe get into positions without knowing exactly
what she was going to do, but find find a
way to get to the resolution that she was looking for.
Speaker 8 (13:04):
I love that she chased the job out in Austin.
The ambition is wonderful, true. It truly is Can you
tell me a little bit about her and Mattie's friendship.
I know that they had a beautiful, beautiful friendship starting
from a young age. Can you tell me a little.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Bit about that they've been best friends since sixth grade.
I believe it was we were all going to private
schools back then, and that was really all she wrote.
They were essentially inseparable their friendship. I'd like to say
it's something that a lot of people think they have
but don't. Maddie and Keeley really had each other's back.
(13:38):
They were always looking out for each other's best interests.
Mattie was more soft spoken, she was there, I say, kinder,
and Kaylee was more you know, this is what we want.
I'm going to find a way to get this. I
guess that's how I would describe the Yin and yang thing.
They had. Obviously their similarities, but they also had this
(14:02):
discrepancy where they were almost polar opposites, but in a
way that kind of match each other perfect.
Speaker 8 (14:07):
I think that's what makes those type of friendships so great,
is that you know, if the people are too similar,
they're going to clash. So just a little bit of
differences makes the pieces fit together. So that was a
beautiful way to describe it.
Speaker 9 (14:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 8 (14:20):
And can you often tell me about their time at
the University of Idaho, Like what do they love about
the university? What made them excited about it?
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Sure, I can't speak too much to that because sororities
are a little bit different than fraternities. I was in
a fraternity down there. They were obviously in their respective sororities.
Kaylee got a fee, Maddy got pi fi. They joined
and they were just heartbroken that they weren't going to
be in the same sorority. And at that time I
(14:49):
was rushing as well. I had joined a fraternity. I
didn't do too well in the fraternity. I'm not great
with stingent rules. It just didn't work for me. And
I had left after a year and I told Kaylee,
I was like, you're gonna hate this. You're gonna absolutely
hate this. I know your personality. And she ended up
(15:09):
not necessarily hating it, but hating all the rules in
the things, the guides you have to follow. And that's
why they ended up getting an apartment. Kailee, I believe,
moved out first. She got an apartment at what's called
the Whites. Actually not far from King Road at all.
We're talking one hundred feet or so. And then they
got the house on King Road together.
Speaker 8 (15:31):
With King Road. Do you remember when Kaylee first told
you that she was going to move in there? It's
how excited were they to all kind of move into this.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Place with anything in a big family. It wasn't like
some big announcement that she was moving into this home.
In fact, I don't recall if she ever even told me,
but I know they were happy to finally coalesce once
again and be together. I can be certain of that.
Speaker 8 (15:55):
Let's get into the plea deal because my heart breaks
for you guys on that. Where were you, guys when
you found out that this was going on? Can you
take me back to that moment when you found out
that a plea deal had been reached.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I wasn't involved in this meeting, but from what I've
heard from my parents, my siblings, there was a meeting
had on Friday, because we had them weekly with the
prosecution to go over updates and whatnot with the case.
And there was a meeting and right at the end
of the meeting, they kind of slipped it in. They go, hey,
and if a plea deal were offered, How would you
feel about that? All of my family obviously answered no,
(16:27):
We've made our opinion very clear about the plea. There's
no confusion to be had, and they're like, okay, okay.
And then it would have been June twenty ninth and
we were out, we were having dinner at a restaurant
over here, and we found out prosecution had made some
decisions for us where they were willing to I don't
(16:48):
want to say sacrifice, but for the lack of a
better word for souls for permanent daycare, for an adult
prison daycare. He has commissary, he has a that he
can work out. He's going to be with a lot
of similarly minded people. He essentially gets to live rent free,
no expenses, for the rest of his life. And we
(17:09):
call that justice. It's insane. They knew we wouldn't agree
with it, and they made it pretty clear they weren't
too concerned with how we felt about the whole situation.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
In a letter that the prosecution sent to the families,
according to new sources, he said that they weighed heavily
the family and their decision making quote, we cannot fathom
the toll that this has taken on your family. This
resolution is our sincere attempt to seek justice for your family.
This agreement ensures that the defendant will be convicted, will
(17:40):
spend the rest of his life in prison, and will
not be able to put you and the other families
through the uncertainty of decades of post conviction appeals that's.
Speaker 7 (17:49):
Going to be considered. I mean, with a death penalty case,
there's appeal after appeal after appeal, and as a family
member of a victim, you're going to want to go
to those appeals. That's in your to be reliving this
over and over and over again. And you know, honestly,
I'm sure they relive it every day right now. They've
been living in suspended animation for the last two and
a half years.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Here's Prosecutor Bill Thompson speaking with KTVW News.
Speaker 10 (18:17):
Every case stands on its own merits, and every case
that my office is handled since I took office thirty
three years ago, has been decided based on what is
unique to that case. I understand and I respect the
feelings of some of the families of the family members
who don't agree with our decision. I honestly do, but
(18:38):
there are also others who feel like they have received
some comfort and some closure from this, and in the
end it has to be the prosecutor's decision.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
It was July second, twenty twenty five, a muggy summer
morning in Boise, Idaho. Temperatures had climbed into the nineties
as crowds began to gather outside the Ada County Courthouse.
Members of the press, local onlookers, and out of town
spectators packed the front steps, hoping to catch a glimpse
(19:14):
of the man who'd been at the center of a
national nightmare. For nearly three years. The question of who
killed four University of Idaho's students had loomed heavy over Moscow,
Idaho and beyond. And now the man accused of that crime,
thirty year old Brian Christopher Coburger, was about to walk
(19:36):
into the court and plead guilty to all five counts.
He was facing four counts of first degree murder and
one count of burglary. The moment was historic and emotional.
It also raised a new wave of questions. Here again,
(19:57):
producer Alison Bankston with Lawn Crime journalists an Jeannette Levy,
you actually.
Speaker 8 (20:05):
Were at Ryan Colberger's plea hearing.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
You had a really good feat I did. It was crazy.
Speaker 8 (20:10):
You can paint a picture for me what it was
like going into that plea hearing on that Wednesday.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Going into the plea hearing, it was very intense because
you knew that Xanna's mother supported the plea agreement. Again,
solve family, of course did not support the plea agreement,
but Matti Mogan's family supported it, as did Ethan Shapin.
So it was very heavy. You're walking in there and
you know that you're walking into something where there's a
(20:35):
lot of contention. And I walked in and we were
told exactly where to sit. And then Brian Coburger walked in.
I could tell immediately his hair was kind of buzzed
on the sides. You know, he looked like he was
prepared for a big event, shirt and tie. Of course.
Khaki's his mother Mary Anne, and father Michael were over
(20:56):
to my left. The victims were all over on the
other side of the court room to the right. He
came in no restraints, sat down, talked to his lawyers
very briefly, and then the hearings started. Bill Thompson in
court went through what he called a written factual basis,
and this was really them presenting to the court what
they believed the evidence would show a trial. And he
(21:18):
said basically that, you know, Brian Coburger bought this k
bar knife on Amazon using a gift card of all things,
in March, and then in late June or early July,
he moves to Pullman, Washington to pursue his PhD in
criminology and criminal justice, and for some reason, Brian Coburger
starts making these trips to the Moscow area. And you know,
(21:43):
they have this evidence that shows that on twenty three
occasions between July and the week before the murders, Brian
Coberger's phone is within a football field of that house
on King Road. It was always late at night, between
ten pm and four am, painting this picture of a nightstalker,
(22:03):
somebody who was kind of circling this neighborhood and possibly
this house like a vulture looking for prey. And he
said basically that Brian Coburger on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two,
went over to King Road in his Hyundai A Lantra,
circled the area, then parked in an upper parking lot
above the house at King Road.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Here's Prosecutor Bill Thompson in the courtroom.
Speaker 10 (22:33):
Entered the residence, went to the third floor and with
a knife killed Madison Bogan and Kyle Getzalos. The defendant
as he left that room for whatever reason, ended up
leaving or the sheath for a k bar knife was
left on the bed next to Madison Molden's body, and
(22:53):
I can jump ahead. That sheath was tested by the
Iaho State Police forensic clab and singles male DNA was
found on the snap of that sheaf. The state's evidence
would show that Xana Canodle was still awake at this time,
in fact, had taken a door dash order not long
before this started. Her room was not on the third floor,
(23:14):
it was on the second floor on the west side.
As the defendant was either coming down the stairs or leaving,
he encountered Xanna and he ended up killing her also
with a large knife. He's in Chapin. Xana's boyfriend was
asleep in their bedroom in her bedroom and the defendant
(23:35):
killed him as well with a large big knife. Each
victim suffered multiple wounds.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
He walked through the kitchen out the backslider door. They
find him. In Pennsylvania, you know they're surveilling him. And
then his vehicle is parked in his parents' garage and
they find a bucket next to the vehicle and they
say basically they took that vehicle apart and that it
had been cleaned. It was spotless. They also searched his
(24:08):
apartment and they said it was spartan. There was no
evidence of any of these students, no blood, no DNA
belonging to any of these victims in either his car
or in his apartment. There was no social media connection,
There was no connection between Brian Coburger and these victims. So,
(24:29):
I mean, what he outlined sound like something out of
a horror movie. This is a real life horror movie.
What struck me was the fact that Brian Coburger barely
blinked the entire time that Bill Thompson was going through
his statement of facts about what they believed the evidence
(24:49):
at trial would have proved. And he barely blinked. Brian
Coberger barely blinked. It was as if he was transfixed
by what Bill Thompson was saying. But he seemed almost
like in a trance, And I was like, is he
listening so intently to see if Bill Thompson gets every
(25:10):
fact right, you know, was he reliving the night as
Bill Thompson was going through all of this information? So
I was stunned by that.
Speaker 8 (25:20):
Just the idea of him listening to Bill Thompson's factual
basis and like reliving it is such a creepy thought.
Oh my god. I think you're right though. I think
that probably is what he was doing. And did we
learn anything new from his written factual basis? I know
that's it was almost like reciting the Affiday that his
written factual basis.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
There really wasn't a lot of new information that we learned.
I think that people were expecting a little more meat
on the bone. I mean, obviously what he painted was
a pretty compelling picture as far as circumstantial evidence goes.
But I think that people were expecting maybe a little
bit more information about the crime and how it occurred.
(25:59):
You know, you've been investigating it for more than two
years now. There has to be more evidence. There has
to be more that they were going to present a
trial that they just haven't talked about yet. You know,
the cards that they're keeping close to the vest for
whatever reason.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
Let's stop here for another break. We'll be back in
a moment. Here's crime analyst, body move in and conversation
with former homicide prosecutor Jarrett Farantino. Farantino is a seasoned
trial attorney who's handled hundreds of plea deals over the
(26:39):
course of his career. He has prosecuted some of the
most complex and high stakes cases in the country, including
multiple death penalty trials.
Speaker 9 (26:50):
If I was the prosecutor, I would want an elocution.
I would want Colberger to say affirmatively I killed Xanna, Maddie, Ethan,
and Kayley. I want to hear him say it. And
that could be part of the plea agreement.
Speaker 7 (27:03):
And that would happen at sentencing, like right before sentencing, right.
Speaker 9 (27:07):
It could, and it could happen in response to the victims' families.
He could apologize to them. He could acknowledge that he
did it. We may never know why. And I think
some of the things I'm seeing online, they're asking is
it an Alford plea? You know that I've heard that too.
Speaker 7 (27:20):
Why do people think that?
Speaker 6 (27:22):
What does that mean?
Speaker 9 (27:22):
So that that's the name of the case out of
North Carolina from nineteen seventy, the Supreme Court basically said
a guilty. TLEA could be accepted if a defendant doesn't
admit the criminal act. As long as they're saying I
acknowledge there's enough evidence against me, and I'm going to
likely be convicted. You can go out. It's exactly how
(27:42):
they got out. But those now, if I'm the prosecutor
in this case, if I'm Bill Thompson, I don't accept
an alford. I'm not taking death off the table until
you bring some closure and some accountability to these families.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Does Coberger or anyone who is in his position, do
they need to or is it customary for them to
give details of X happened and then why happened? Or
are they under no obligation to explain the events of
the night.
Speaker 11 (28:11):
He has the right to stay silent. My hope is
he apologizes for what he did. He could explain why
he did what he did. I don't expect that, though.
Speaker 12 (28:23):
I think he's going to be pretty tight lippt as
to why, because you know, it's one thing to admit
these crimes, it's another thing to admit these strange fantasies
that you're carrying out.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow
us on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios. The Idaho Massacre
is produced by Stephanie Leideker, Alison Bankston, Gabriel Castillo and
me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Twas,
Music by Jared Aston. The Idaho Masacre is a production
(28:57):
of Kat's Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like this,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Stephanie Lydecker
Courtney Armstrong
Jeff Shane
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