May 12, 2022 • 42 mins
Bobbi and Anjali are joined by philanthropist, humanitarian, and model Christy Turlington Burns. We'll hear all about how Christy found her voice and her calling after her career in modeling, and how she finds joy in family, running, and helping others.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
M how many things are different since we met, since
before the pandemic, how my life has changed, and how
a lot of people's life and how things that you
(00:20):
didn't realize were so important are really the important things. Right.
It's not just your career, and it's not just you know,
how you show up at work. It's just it's really
the words that come out of your mouth and how
you live your life. I'm so excited to talk to Christy.
(00:43):
This is gonna be a fun one. You guys are friends, right,
you guys are friends? We are? Yeah? I mean, whoever
would have put that together? I can tell you. My nerdy,
suburban Chicago schoolgirl never would have thought there'd be a
scenario where I would end up meeting Christy Turlington Burns
as an adult and become friends with her, obviously not
because of our parallel modeling careers, but because we met
(01:05):
through sort of nonprofit stuff and bonded over that and
her work with Every Mother Counts, which I am excited
to hear more about what she's up to. And also
we met when we both spoke at TED, so we
spoke the same year and became buddies, and so just
sort of got introduced over and over again and finally
just started hanging out. She's awesome. I first met Christie
when she was a young model and I was a
(01:27):
young makeup artist, and every time I would do her makeup,
I thought I was the most talented makeup artist in
the universe because all I had to do was put
clear lip gloss on her lips and pinch her cheek,
and she was stunning. And honestly, I think I learned
a lot about choosing makeup by looking at faces, and
especially hers, because she had such natural, beautiful coloring in
(01:49):
her skin, and that's how I ultimately like to do makeup.
But she was always kind and I really haven't, you know,
seen her as often as I would like, so I'm
pretty excited to talk about everything. She's doing. Awesome, And
if you can protect me from running a marathon, I
would really appreciate it. I have a feeling she's gonna
hit me up again. Let's get into it. Excited for
(02:10):
our conversation with Christie. Hi, Christie, Hi, and Julie. It's
so good to see you, well to hear you. Hi, Bobby,
Hi Christie. First of all, she knows your real name.
A Julie. She knows how to pronounce your she knows
(02:30):
how to say it. Yeah, oh yeah, because we're pals.
We're pals from the neighborhood. We are. But I knew you.
I knew you'd eight or ten years and you never
corrected my pronunciation, So I know, what did you say
on Jolly? Oh? I know? And I it's a really
bad carry over from childhood and being like a first
(02:52):
generation immigrant where you're just like, yeah, whatever you want
to say is fine, and I didn't correct people, and
now even as an adult, like I don't know why
I don't just say it right away. But I was like, oh,
she means it with love. It's not like she's being disrespectful.
It just doesn't know how to say it's I'm like,
it's fine, but yeah, now I'm I'm supposed to be
of it. I know. I'm trying to be better for
(03:12):
the next generation. I get called Cindy all the time.
You don't you do do not I do. There's no
way anyone's mistaken you for Sunday. They're like starts at
the sea, ends of the hy You you all look alike,
well you don't. You're stunningly beautiful as always, And um,
(03:32):
I feel like my first girl crush might have been
on Christy Turlington Burns when I was Yeah, when you
were in what and like what like fifth grade? What
are you trying to say? Well, it's just as a teenager,
you know, when she came on the scene, it's like
you were the closest thing we had to like ethnic
beauty being represented on on the main stage, you know,
(03:52):
in Vogue and on the pages of my favorite magazines.
And I just you know, I probably had a little
girl crush, don't I don't want to make you on comfortable,
but it's true. One thing, one thing about her, because
I met her during those times. I was lucky the
times I got to work with her because as one
of the big models, she was the nicest she was,
you know, and so with Cindy, But she was always
(04:15):
the nice I believe that. Thank you, Gosh. I want
to hang out with you every day. We're here. We're
here every day just doing this. This is what we do,
just that I'm recording. But has anyone ever called you
other than nice? I mean, I'm proud of having the
reputation of being the nice model of my peer group,
(04:39):
but I I also felt like sometimes it was a
little boring and bland, like just to be nice. I like,
come on, I've got more than that. And I'm sure
I wasn't always nice. I mean, I'm sure I had
my moments, like anyone does. But I definitely saw there
was opportunity to um, I don't know, make myself remembered,
or or to be liked, right, And we all want
(05:01):
to just be liked on the set and like welcomed,
and so to be nice was the easiest way to
um to get that. Yeah, but the answer is no.
Back then, people did not want to be nice. It
was cooler to not be nice. I was always nice.
And there was a hairdresser I don't even remember her
name who literally stopped working and she was awful. And
(05:21):
I saw her again about a year later, and she said,
I'm going to take something out of your playbook. I'm
gonna be nice to everyone. That's my new thing. There
was no chance this girl was ever going to be nice.
There was no chance that we won't name names. I
don't even remember her name. That's how much of a
remember I remember. Then. I'm curious, Yeah, yeah, exactly, Maybe
that's yeah. I guess it's the extremes, right, the divas,
(05:44):
and then the nice ones. I feel like kindness, right,
that's sort of the that's the goal. That's what I
want my children to be. Kind are they? They are? Um,
they're also funny. I think that's the other thing that
you want your kids to be because that keeps this going. Um.
But kind and funny two good qualities. I totally agree.
(06:07):
I think funny is a really great sign of intelligence too.
That's what I keep telling myself, and I am really
hard to be funny. And then I was told recently
in a meeting that I shouldn't tell people that I'm funny.
I should just tell a joke. And I was like, oh,
that burns. That hits a little too. Quotes when people
will ask the question like what is something that nobody
(06:28):
knows about you? Or what's something that's not on Wikipedia?
Like first, I never look at Wikipedia. But secondly it's
like I was like, well, I think I'm funny, and
I think it's a weird thing to say about yourself, right,
Like when you say I think I'm funny, You're like,
you can't possibly be funny, but you are funny. I
know that. Thank you, Christie. I think you're pretty funny.
You're funny, and you're kind. I would agree with all
(06:49):
those ones. So funny and kind, and you're imparting that
to your children as is Bobby, also funny and kind.
Look at us, we're just quite the trio, aren't we?
Just the most wonderful, nice, kind giving people in America? Okay,
so people are listening to think this is really not
worth my time, this is boring. So let's get out
to the to the meat of this podcast, which is
basically it's called The Important Thing because look, everyone knows
(07:14):
you're amazing career. We don't know enough about you, know
what you're doing now, I mean the world doesn't. But
what has changed for you personally since the pandemic? Like,
what are the important things to you now? I mean,
I guess it's it's all the cliches. Really, I think
the sort of slowing down piece of it. I feel
like it's the truth that I that I knew, but
(07:35):
I didn't have a choice but to really like surrender
to it um during the pandemic. I think that's sort
of your family and your your home being where your
heart is, and your your heart being or your home
is that was very evident, like I couldn't be traveling,
I couldn't be moving at the pace that I normally do,
and I fully embraced it, like and I embraced it
(07:56):
quite quickly. I realized like this was not a situation
where I like there was any reason to fight it.
It just was and it was out of our control.
And so not that it was like smooth every day,
but I I early on was like, this is bigger
than me and all of us, and you would have
to write it. And luckily I'm here under the same
roof with the people that I love the most in
the world. So can't be can't be that much. And
(08:18):
are your kids still in the house? Are there? I
don't know how they are. They're back at school. They're
back at school. Um so oh so, Grace's eighteen, she's
a senior, uh in high school and finished sixteen years
of sophomore and so you know, early days pandemic, we
were on Long Island in our house there because spring break,
and then we came back to the city and the
(08:39):
fall of of of last year. Um, and then they've
been out in school back and forth a bit. Um.
But they're in now, which has been really nice for everybody.
I also spent a lot of the pandemic in the
Hampton's and it was for us personally. Having the family
was you know, a blessing. But it was hard. I mean,
(09:02):
I'm not gonna you know, I'm not gonna say it
was hard. Three boys, three dogs. How many dogs did
you guys have in the house? A lot? Three boys,
four or five dogs, fiances, then wives, and then nephews,
so you know, it was amazing. She had a full compound,
going wow, wow, Yeah, I had two kids, two dogs,
(09:24):
and then I didn't even see in that first lockdown
my sister and her kids and her husband lived you know,
ten minutes away. We didn't even see them during that
first you know, eight weeks or whatever, so we really
just were the four of us for the very first time,
I think, without anyone. Um. Yeah, it was. It was
kind of magical. Though. There was a lot that I
(09:46):
really really loved and I still love, especially I feel
like them at these ages where I don't think I
would typically get that kind of quality time, certainly, not
evenings around the table or watching movies together, you know, weekend.
It's like they they would normally be just like a
shadow of themselves. Um, I think during these years, but
lots of quality time and what were you doing? Mostly
(10:09):
were you I was still working as they were going
to school after that initial spring break time and we
were all off and trying to figure out things. My
my mother in law was down in Florida and she
was quite ill and ultimately passed from COVID. So that
was early days. So I feel like we very much
were in that space that um. But we were reading
about in the news and seeing on television like we
(10:31):
lived it, you know, caregivers on the phone and um,
you know, it was it was intense. Um. And then
also my kids really hadn't lost anybody before, so to
have that be their first big loss during the pandemic
while they were home, it was it was pretty intense. UM.
But then once everybody kind of started to find their
(10:52):
their routines, we all found our corner of the house.
We don't have great WiFi out there, so that was
a challenge. You know, crash and we'd all be screaming
like turn on. I guess if anyone really had any
control of that either. But it was kind of also
nice to know, like if they were down. I was down,
like what could we do? I was outside as much
(11:13):
as I could. That was the beauty of being able
to be outside of the city during um those few months,
and so to go for a walk or go for
a run or something like that. I really felt like
the pool of nature even more than I normally do.
UM and I think my kids did too, like bike rides, walks,
um even alone just to like get the space that
we needed to be able to kind of come back
(11:33):
together again. UM. That was kind of critical to clear head.
And you're you're a major marathon or correct major? Yeah,
I completed my ninth full marathon last November. I've done
all the six world marathons as well. Um. Yeah, I
I've found that I love running now. I now, I
(11:55):
kind of wish that I discovered it earlier. But maybe
that's why I'm surviving as a runner now, is that
I didn't discover it earlier, and so far my joints
and bones are intact. So will you share with us
the the tips that you were giving me to start running,
which I admittedly have not started doing. Bobby will enjoy this.
Christie was I think it was last summer You're or
(12:17):
maybe last spring, She's like, would you should run the
marathon with me? And I was like, we obviously don't
know each other very well, because if you knew me better,
you would know that's not something I want to do.
But I was really inspired by the idea that you
had asked me to do it that I was like,
maybe someday, I promise I will run it for you
if I do it, but I don't know that that's
happening even a five k. Honestly, the walking walking is
(12:39):
probably the best exercise you can do, and it's probably
the healthiest for your body. Um, and anyone could do
it anywhere, right like whatever of your urban or suburban
or in rural rural part of the world, I think.
And if you do it at a pace like I think,
that's actually the healthiest for all of us and you
get all the benefits of the like solitude and meditation
(12:59):
and bree thing. Um. Yeah, I think a five k
could be okay for you. Okay, k Unsually do you walk?
I do? I walk a ton. I can walk for
like days. I mean, I would like traverse the country
if I had to walking. I can walk with no problem.
But it's the running I've never you know, it's interesting,
(13:20):
I think because as a kid, I feel like you
guys have different narratives around this. But for me as
a kid, because I wasn't traditionally athletic and like the
American school system, like I didn't play American sports well,
like basketball or volleyball or whatever. I wasn't good at that.
So I had a very strong narrative that I wasn't athletic.
I conflated the two and it was really hard for
(13:40):
me to then grow up and be like, oh, I
was athletic in a different way. But I really was like, oh,
I'm not a fast runner, or I'm not the best
on the basketball team, even if I'm tall or whatever,
So that means I'm not athletic. So it's been hard
to to change that narrative. Christie, how do I change
that narrative? Tell me? We sort of tell yourself right, like, um,
(14:02):
we are what we say we are actually, But my
dad had three girls with my mom, and he had
two children before he was married to my mom. But
there are three sisters, and he had us do every sport,
and I would say I was not the most natural athlete,
but I had to still you know, plague, soccer, um, softball,
(14:23):
ski and he had us do some track and field
as well at little like community college nearby. And I
was I got tall, and I learned that I was
fast when I was young, and so I did think
of myself as a runner, and so then dropped it
for many, many years. And when I came back to
start running, um for for every mother counts, it was
like I discovered or rediscovered that I actually love it.
(14:46):
And it's like human beings, they run for play, they
run like we We are runners, Like human beings are
naturally runners. We just in our sort of more sedentary Um,
I don't know devolution, I would say, have become a
lot more still in static and tied to our seats.
And so I don't know. If you can get that
mentality that it's actually playful, that it's fun as opposed
(15:09):
to a chore like work or exercise, then um, you
can start to kind of discover that part of yourself
that you probably forgot. And were you a runner when
you were modeling a little bit sometimes, but again more
for exercise. I would say, like, I don't know if
you remember, there was like no gyms anywhere, especially in
Europe at the time, hotels didn't have gyms, or if
(15:29):
they did, as like a teeny tiny room um in
the basement of a hotel, and so I would sometimes
bring shoes and go out for a run if I
was jet lagged or there was a park nearby. Um.
But I can't say I loved it. It was more
like the something that I should be doing that I
you know, I should be doing it like a chore
like part of my job, but not necessarily what I loved.
(15:51):
Did you love modeling? No, No, you didn't. You knows
you didn't love modeling. You just kind of sucked, know.
I mean, I think I liked a lot of things
about the job that had nothing to do with the
actual job. Um. I like the people. I like the
playfulness again, I guess like to me when I, yeah,
(16:14):
when I was a teenager and started working, I would
come to New York and you know, you have this
creative group of people playing dress up essentially, like it
was so much more fun than my friends in high
school doing whatever they were doing, Like it like trying
to be trying to go to clubs. And I did
a little bit of that too when I got here.
(16:34):
But for the most part. The work part of the
day was more like fun, like what are we gonna
do today and what's the going to be? And like
playing and trying and scratching it and starting something again,
Like there was something that was so kind of I
don't know, it really felt like a collaborative, fun, creative
process that even as a model, because I don't always
(16:55):
find the model role of the whole team and fashion
to be the most creative one. I mean, certainly there
are some that are very creative, but I always kind
of found like I'm supposed to be sort of I
don't know, playing back in a way another person's or
company's fantasy as opposed to being like an active participant
in it. But there were so many instances early on
that I think I really like that feeling of being
(17:17):
a part of a team and then going on a trip,
Like for me, that travel was always the most fun
part about the whole job and the most exciting part.
And I always love to, like go to a new country,
go to a new city, and so you know, when
you travel with people, you bond, you connect, you have
these shared experiences, and to me that was everything. So
the actually like okay, you gotta get up at five
(17:38):
in the morning and get ready and then go stand
in the cold or do whatever we have to do.
That was like the but the fun part is like
the getting there, the meals in between, the just the
adventures that happened when you get on the road. That
was so Now you're gonna laugh at me because to me,
I mean, I'm a lawyer by training, and but to me,
(17:58):
what you're describing doesn't actually sound that different from what
I loved about being a young lawyer in London or
in Paris or wherever. Was the travel and it was
the people, and there was an aspect of it that
was fun. The job stank like that was not the
fun part, but it was. I mean, I would rather
have been a model, I think in a direct video,
but um, you know, you take what you can get.
(18:19):
But it's uh, I think at that age there is
something so opening through your job. It's just like it
was a different time or like that was really the
portal for me to experience so much was that first
those first work experiences. Absolutely, the people that Christie was
(18:49):
working with. I mean, I'll tell you from being in
the same industry, the top of the top, you know,
the orbit the photographers like honestly, like the top of
the Top. I mean, I don't think you did much
catalog work, Christie, Well that that's actually the funny thing.
I feel like there was a lot of catalog work
then remember Spiegel did you ever work? So there was
(19:10):
like the German clients and the German catalogs right where
you get there, and literally you couldn't sit down for lunch.
It was like, you know, the clock is ticking, and
how I think could get ten shots? I mean like
it was just a machine, and so that's no fun.
I mean you'd hope that you could have a laugh
in the makeup and hair, you know, chairs, because otherwise
it was a bit of torture. And then there was
(19:32):
every now and again the fun shoot, which you're right.
I got to work with some of the most amazing people,
many of them are no longer with us um, but
to have had that experience to get to I think
the beauty also being a model or or on the
hair makeup team, is that we get to come in
and out of those crews and those teams all the time,
work with the different magazines. You get kind of insight
(19:54):
to it all. Whereas the photographers. You know, they only
know what they know, They only know their own universe.
And and I think that can I don't know, for
like the assistance in the groups that are so tightly
connected to at one team. I think you miss a
lot of the fun because you only know that one team. Yeah,
I see you on Instagram, you know with all the
(20:15):
other models, you know, the same models of the same
You know, you seem to be friends with a bunch
of the girls. Do you keep in touch with a
bunch of them? Yeah, I mean I I don't see
too many in person these days, just because of COVID.
But then also not everybody lives in New York anymore. Um,
I you know, I'll see Cindy sometimes. She lives in
l A, but she comes to New York quite a bit.
(20:37):
Uh Naomi is still moving at the pace that she
always did, even in the pandemic somehow, And I mean,
I know, unbelievable. I know, she's she's a hero, amazing.
So when did you start, every mother count what was
happening in your journey when you started at Yeah, I
mean I get, I mean I still model sometimes, so
(20:58):
I can't say I stopped her, but I stopped in
my mind working as a full time model. About ten
years in, I went back to school to just get
my undergrad degree at n y U UM in like
ninety five or ninety six. So that sort of was
the break off to kind of figure out who I
wanted to be and what what were my I had
(21:18):
a ton of interest, but it was like, let me,
let me explore those parts of myself, because I could
see how twenty years could get sucked away if the
industry even would have me. To be honest, I didn't.
I didn't really have a big future plan with my
modeling career. I was always like, oh, wow, here I
am five years in or ten years in. I couldn't
believe actually that I lasted that long. And so then
(21:40):
school I went full time for four years. UM. I
was feeling like, you know, my mid twenties, I I
felt like I was behind and so I was trying
to catch up and I graduated at thirty. What did
you study? Initially? It's I took a liberal arts degree
at the Gallatin School, which is an individualized study program
at n y U. And I initially was interested in
(22:02):
like art history and the things that my sister was
studying in college, like literature, and and then I started
studying comparative religion, and I kind of and I was
practicing yoga a lot at that time in my life
or just starting too, and so my studies kind of
went into comparative religion, Eastern philosophy, and then I got
to still touch on all those parts of the liceral
arts degree that I was already interested in. So it
(22:24):
was so much fun, like the whole experience, not traveling
as much for for the first time in ten years,
sort of creating a home for myself in this city
that I called a home already, you know, from the
age of like sixteen or seventeen, and then like really
making a home. You know. I think I had a
boyfriend in those years, but I wasn't living with anybody,
so it was really creating my own space, my own home,
(22:46):
walking to school, walking home from school, making friends outside
of the industry, and it was a really magical time.
I also started doing other things, you know, like you know,
I guess philanthropy started to kind of become more of
a choice. I think, you know, our industry has always
had since I've been in it, philanthropic side obviously, HIV.
(23:07):
AIDS was a big problem when I became a model
in the mid eighties, and I grew up in the
East Bay area, so outside of San Francisco, so I
felt like I knew people who were dying of AIDS
before I came to New York. And then of course
when I got to New York, you know constantly UM
and so I was aware of that issue, and the
industry really rallied. I would say around it, um, I'd
(23:30):
say soon after that, you know, breast cancers. A lot
of work and activity around that. So I would kind
of play my role but more as a sort of sure,
I'll show up to that thing, yeah, you know, donate.
And then I started to um have more opportunities to
kind of explore for myself, like what what did I
really really care about? And for me, it was pretty straightforward,
(23:52):
like my mom's from Central America, she's from El Salvador.
And I got asked in the very early nineties if
I when the war had ended, there would I, you know,
help out to try to create some I don't know,
positive publicity around the country. And it's a country that
I had grown up going to have been and so
to be able to go back after the war and
(24:13):
have you know, I don't know, for people to realize
that I was actually from that part of the world
was also like a really I think important thing for
me as a young adult. And then my next thing
was my father had cancer and he died from lung cancer.
And I had been a smoker in my teens in
early twenties, so I had an opportunity to kind of
share my testimony and share my dad's story and advocate,
(24:35):
and um, that was a pretty exciting time because you know,
tobacco cessation and prevention was very much in the culture
for the first time. When I look at that public
health nightmare, it's amazing where how far we've come. And
my kids have grown up kind of like they see
a cigarette, they're like what is that. They're seemingly making
a comeback, but for most of their lives they've been
(24:56):
like what is that. I know, if my daughter smells
it on the streets, she's like taking it back, She's like,
what is what's happening? Like, Oh, that's a cigarette, you know,
that's a cigarette smoke, and she's really that's It's like,
that's the normal weed smell that we smell. Anywhere that
she's used to. Unfortunately, in the streets of New York.
I think that she doesn't notice. But cigarette smoke is
quite charring. It's interesting. We didn't know it was bad
(25:17):
for you back then, you know. I mean I smoked
in high school. No one said you shouldn't be doing this,
it's not good for you, which is crazy. I kind
of think I knew it was bad for me, but
I I also was attracted to it for those reasons.
You know, my dad smoked always and said there was
always cigarettes around. I feel like most of my friends
parents one or both smoked. So when we started like
(25:38):
sneak cigarettes or you know, try to look like we
were older or cool, we would be smoking. And I
also grew up horseback riding, and everyone around the horses
smoked like everyone. So yeah, I started smoking in my
I don't know, twelve thirteen a little bit. And then
by the time I was modeling at fifteen, I would
like carry my pack of cigarettes around and I was
smoking all the time. And I think in those early
(25:59):
years too, when I was a bit more shy and
trying to kind of get the lay the land, it
gave you this sense that you were doing something when
you weren't doing anything when you're sitting like now people
would be on their phone, but back then, you'd sit
in a studio in a corner while they were like
ignoring you or like making you wait to have an appointment,
and you just like smoke cigarettes, drink coffee, smoke cigarettes
(26:20):
and sit there as if like you're you're doing something. UM. Anyway,
I I quit when I was about twenty five, right
before I went back to college, and my dad died
two years later, and so I felt very confident by
the time I started advocating on that issue that I
was done done and that I could be trustworthy UM
(26:41):
public person advocating on that topic. And and that's where
I kind of got excited about public health and advocacy
really UM. And that sort of prepared me for when
I became a mom. And when I became a mom,
I experienced a postpartum hemorrhage. And that's really what brought
me into this work around internal health. Wow, So what
(27:01):
your did you what did you found it two thousands? Oh?
I found the organization two thousand and ten, but I
became a mom in two thousand and three. But you
realize the power of your voice in that different way
must have been pretty incredible. I mean, because it's you know,
you're where where you're talking about how you were. You know,
when you're modeling that you're bringing somebody else's vision to
(27:23):
life or your kind of acting in that way. But
then to be able to take that attention in the
spotlights that's being shown on you and shine it on
things that you care about, it's pretty powerful. Yeah. And
I think there's when you're at all in the public,
I feel like there's a sort of pressure or there's
the questions like, oh, and you should feel like you
you should be doing these things. And yet to me,
(27:45):
there's nothing worse than having somebody in an obligatory way,
I guess, put themselves out there just to do it
because it's the right thing to do. It's to me,
it really had to feel grounded in like an experience
um for me to find my voice in that. And
I think going back to school also gave me confidence.
Just like I had to talk in the classroom, I
(28:06):
had to share my thoughts and my ideas, I had
to introduce myself every semester in every class like that
gave me a certain kind of confidence outside of my career,
which was a success, and I didn't have to, like,
you know, you kind of earn your stripes right in
the industry. Like at a certain point you can say
more because your experience, your experiences inform you that, Like
(28:26):
you see somebody else with me, you're like, hey, I
didn't know I could do that, but now I can.
Like remember the first time I said I'm not going
to wear fur. I didn't know I could say that.
I figured, like, I'm hired, it's not my choice, but
I of course I had choice within the realm of um,
you know, a certain amount of choice. But it also
must have been such a transition for you because you
(28:47):
were known for your face. You couldn't go anywhere without
people either staring at you were saying something or you know,
there were no phones back then, so maybe pull out
their camera and take a picture. And then all of
a sudden, you're going back to school and be mean
someone that talks about the things that matters. I just
think it must have been maybe subconsciously like empowering for
(29:08):
you that it wasn't just about the way you look.
Absolutely absolutely, And yet I also feel like it happened
gradually enough that it never felt like something that happened overnight.
And I also felt I don't know, I never felt
like I attracted the kind of attention that some of
my peers did. Like I wasn't followed around with a
camera outside of work. I really wasn't. I didn't. I
(29:29):
didn't have a very um I don't think I had
such an exciting, uh like personal life. So for me
being able to like look like I did if I
wasn't at work with makeup and dressed up, I kind
of ease in and out of life very easily. The differences.
I feel like I have a last name that is
a little unique. It's not something you hear all the time,
(29:50):
so it's not like Christie Smith sitting in the background class.
But mostly it didn't matter. I think the age difference
that I was, even from my student peers, was enough
that they weren't as in the weeds of what I did.
I feel like my peer group if I was with
people that were my age, maybe, but I already feel
like students eight years younger than me, like they were
(30:11):
in the whoever was next? Like you know what I mean?
It wasn't like they were preoccupied. That was I didn't
know what it was going to be like, and it
was much more comfortable than I realized. And then it
just got more and more comfortable, as like a muscle
you practice, you know, you just you just do and
then you're like, oh, I can get outside of my
comfort zone or I can blend in and I you know,
(30:31):
no one's looking at me in thinking why am I
talking about this or why do I have this opinion?
It just sort of you know, all of us have
an opportunity to do that if we feel confident in
doing it, and should have the voice and place to
do it. And so tell me just a little bit
more about what every mother accounts does I mean besides
education and awareness, yeah, we UM. I mean our mission
(30:54):
is really to make pregnancy and child worth safe for
every mother everywhere, which is a massive mission UM. But
what that entails is educating the public in a big
way through UM films and storytelling, UM, through working on
policy and advocacy changed so that people can sort of
demand for change, UM, advocate on behalf of themselves for
(31:15):
what they need in that moment um, to advocate for
support for respectful care. I think it's sort of assumed
that you know, even if you have access to healthcare
that that's like quality care, but actually, like quality care
is really quite um interesting, Like, you know, we sort
of expect a very low standard of quality, I think
(31:38):
in terms of our interaction with um with medical providers.
And I think, you know, we all are intimidated by doctors.
And I know, Angelo, you you're married to one, so
you will see this in a different way. But I
feel like most people kind of again talk about surrender.
They see somebody that's in a white coat or that
has doctor next to their name, and they're like, Okay,
(31:58):
you know best, you're the boss. I feel that way too,
And the thing, yeah, I've been married for twenty some
years and I still feel that way when a doctor
walks in the room, but to the point that actually
it's it's weird. My husband will even like when we're
going through our medical stuff trying to have a baby, um,
the doctor would walk on the room and I would
completely clam up. And I'm not shy for talking and
advocating for myself, but in that scenario, you're so vulnerable,
(32:22):
you're so nervous. I was, at least, and I would
completely clamb up. I wouldn't ask questions. I wouldn't, you know,
it was really unlike me, and so I'd have to
write them all down and make him as that, which
was so great. It's so not how I am in
any other part of my life. But in a medical setting,
I felt super nervous. Yeah, I think you do. I
think everyone feels that way to an extamp. But I
think then put on put add onto that you're a woman,
(32:45):
add onto that, if you're a woman of color, um
add on to that. You know, like there's just these
different layers. And so I think our system has really
sat people up for not feeling their most confident, not
feeling that they know how their bodies work, or feel
that connection to themselves enough to be able to know
what questions to ask. And I really think healthcare needs
to be a partnership. It needs to be like patient
(33:08):
and provider coming together and working together to have the
best possible outcome. So we do a lot of just
like sharing of resources and information, just making it in
this world of so much information, especially around pregnancy and childbirth.
Right like you go googling, and you know you'd be,
you know, beside yourself, terrified of what could possibly happen,
(33:28):
and yet a healthy amount of fear and maybe just
being aware of the possibilities is also really empowering. Um.
I was very very prepared coming into pregnancy. It was
like I was ready to become a mom. I felt
like I'd had one career, i had gone back to school,
I started a few other kinds of careers, and I
was like, I'm ready. I'm in my thirties, I'm not
(33:50):
a baby. I'm like, I'm informed. I have a supportive
like husband and like a system around me to like
get me the support I needed. And and then the
annex spect it happened, which was to have that experience
of the postpartum hemorrhage after my baby was born. So
when you think, like healthy child, she's out of my body,
surely this is over, and then it's like, no, they're
(34:13):
just starting. Yeah, exactly exactly. So I feel like I
feel like I was informed and I wasn't completely. And
I just know how many other people don't have any
sexual reproductive education at school. We don't allow it to
be taught in most states, um, you know, most counties
(34:34):
in the country. So like people are really not that
aware and sort of fighting themselves pregnant oops sex pregnant,
not having a savings because it's very expensive to become
a parent UM, as you both know, and UM to
support a child and a family through UM, through pregnancy
and childbirth, and then to raise them for the rest
(34:54):
of their life. UM. Like these are things that need
a lot of thought and care and planning, and most
people in the world, but in this country, enter it
not prepared and so part of our I would say,
our role as an organization is making sure that people
know their rights, know their options, UM, utilize those options,
(35:17):
learn to use their voice, ask the questions UM, and
then advocate so that others can have a better experience UM.
Because I truly believe, like you know, this has to
get better UM, and in order for it to get better,
we all have to be sort of out there talking
and advocating together. Where is the focus of your work
(35:37):
works countries and you do a lot more in the
US than I knew about. Yeah, we increased a lot
through COVID. Actually, I would say before before COVID, we
were about maybe of our funding went to programs here
in the US, all community based UM. And then we
also have pritners in Guatemala, Haiti, India, Bangladesh, Tanzania, uh Nepal,
(36:02):
and Indonesia. UM. And you know, like I'm actually leaving
for Africa on Sunday, and so we're going to be
adding to our African partners, you know, through a few
new relationships in Kenya most likely, but also visiting Tanzania.
I mean, there's so much neat around the world that's
like a very like tiny tiny amount of countries to
(36:25):
be focused on. And yet it's always been really important
that there is a kind of global perspective on this issue. Um.
You know, when I first started learning about the magnitude
of the problem that you know, hundreds of thousands of
girls woman die every year from pregnancy and childbirth related complications.
You know, of those deaths do happen in the global South,
(36:47):
in the developing world. UM. But the United States is
ranked fifty five in the world, Like we are doing
so badly and we've fallen behind from forty one in
the world since I became a mom. And you know,
we're of two industrialized countries with the highest matroal mortality
like ratio on the rise, Like why how is that possible?
(37:08):
So the stats are shocking. Those those stats are so
and I think people really just assume it's another place
problem as opposed to it's happening in our own backyards,
and people are not aware of it, and I don't
know what resources are needed and all that into the
work you're doing. It's really incredible to shine a light
on it and to really, you know, just to get
everyone to understand that there's not a a problem happening
(37:30):
to other people. It's happening right here too. And you're
taking care of the world. You're taking care of your family.
How does Christie take care of Christie? Tell us some
of your like tangible secrets, like what do you eat?
What do you you know? Do take baths? What are
your things? Oh? I love baths. My whole family are
big bathsakers. Think goodness? Wit of live in California anymore?
(37:52):
Um I I yoga. I mean I discovered yoga at
eighteen years old, and it has been the kind of
that keeps giving in the pandemic. I went from practicing
like two times a week, where I would like squeeze
those classes in on my busy work week or when
I was traveling. I went to like practicing six days
a week, I practiced from home. I'm still doing like
(38:13):
zoom classes with a group two groups from California that
just started in those early weeks and have just been
my like steady, steady, consistent, like reprieve in my day
that keeps me going. What kind of yoga? Um, it
is like a vinyasa practice. Um. You know, I've kind
of over the years done at all from Mashtonga to
(38:37):
I younger. But I found that, like I like to
have more precision around post years after doing it for
so many years. But at the same time, I like
to have sort of flow in the practice. Yeah, I
like it's been my favorite. And what about food? Food?
Do you have a practice in food? Not really? I
mean I I mean I try. I think I'm a
(38:57):
pretty healthy eater. But I was vegetarian for a few
years but before I became a mom and then I
just kind of listen to my body. I feel like moderation.
I mean, I try to eat things that are seasonal.
I don't like indulge too much, but not because I
not because I don't allow myself to. Just I feel
like moderation is the way. Um, I do have guilty
(39:17):
pleasure and fried foods I love. I mean, like, if
it's fried and it's in front of me, I will
eat almost anything. Um, but I am, but I don't
tend to have it that much like temporo will be
like on the edge for me in my normal life.
My daughter became a vegan over a year ago, and
(39:37):
so she's been introducing more plant based foods in our
all of our lives that I think is beneficial to
us all um. It's also made her a better cook,
and so that's been really nice that she kind of
wants to share and she wants us to sort of try.
And you know, if she see I cleanse sometimes like
once a year or so, she'll be like, Mom, don't
just cleanse, just just do vegan. Just do vegan with me.
(39:59):
You don't have to do a juice cleans like, you
don't have to just just be vegan. So I'm kind
of open, I believe, and maybe yoga helped me get there.
But I feel like I listen to my body, and
my body typically tells me what I need. Um, And
if I eat something that isn't great for me, it's
easily eliminated, you know what I mean. It doesn't stick
(40:21):
very long so quite literally, you are so balanced. I
think it's quite something. But so there's one question I
ask everyone that's on the show, and I think it's
the most important one, which is if people listening could
do one thing that you're gonna recommend that could change
their life, one thing, what would it be? I would
(40:42):
say initiative practice, a meditation practice, a yoga practice, a
practice um, something that has you sort of sitting with yourself,
getting comfortable, sitting in solitude or in peace quiet um.
And I think that could be in movement to I suppose,
but just that sort of you know, when I run,
(41:05):
I don't take music with me, I don't listen to podcast.
Sorry for your daughters, but hey, I want to be
That's like one of the few times of the day
where I'm not connected, where I can just breathe and
I can just take in what's around me and the
noises of the city or the noises of the country
wherever I am. And so I don't know, I think
building a practice figuring out how to be alone with
(41:26):
yourself is a really healthy practice. I like that a lot,
being alone with yourself as Yeah, but you can take
us with you listener, don't listen to question. Well, thank
you so much for joining us. It's been amazing to
you know, to first of all to see you and
always one of my favorites, one of my favorite humans,
not just favorite models, so I will say that here here,
(41:50):
Thank you, Thank you so much, such a joy, joy
to be with you both. To doto dot to be
inher
M how many things are different since we met, since
before the pandemic, how my life has changed, and how
a lot of people's life and how things that you
(00:20):
didn't realize were so important are really the important things. Right.
It's not just your career, and it's not just you know,
how you show up at work. It's just it's really
the words that come out of your mouth and how
you live your life. I'm so excited to talk to Christy.
(00:43):
This is gonna be a fun one. You guys are friends, right,
you guys are friends? We are? Yeah? I mean, whoever
would have put that together? I can tell you. My nerdy,
suburban Chicago schoolgirl never would have thought there'd be a
scenario where I would end up meeting Christy Turlington Burns
as an adult and become friends with her, obviously not
because of our parallel modeling careers, but because we met
(01:05):
through sort of nonprofit stuff and bonded over that and
her work with Every Mother Counts, which I am excited
to hear more about what she's up to. And also
we met when we both spoke at TED, so we
spoke the same year and became buddies, and so just
sort of got introduced over and over again and finally
just started hanging out. She's awesome. I first met Christie
when she was a young model and I was a
(01:27):
young makeup artist, and every time I would do her makeup,
I thought I was the most talented makeup artist in
the universe because all I had to do was put
clear lip gloss on her lips and pinch her cheek,
and she was stunning. And honestly, I think I learned
a lot about choosing makeup by looking at faces, and
especially hers, because she had such natural, beautiful coloring in
(01:49):
her skin, and that's how I ultimately like to do makeup.
But she was always kind and I really haven't, you know,
seen her as often as I would like, so I'm
pretty excited to talk about everything. She's doing. Awesome, And
if you can protect me from running a marathon, I
would really appreciate it. I have a feeling she's gonna
hit me up again. Let's get into it. Excited for
(02:10):
our conversation with Christie. Hi, Christie, Hi, and Julie. It's
so good to see you, well to hear you. Hi, Bobby,
Hi Christie. First of all, she knows your real name.
A Julie. She knows how to pronounce your she knows
(02:30):
how to say it. Yeah, oh yeah, because we're pals.
We're pals from the neighborhood. We are. But I knew you.
I knew you'd eight or ten years and you never
corrected my pronunciation, So I know, what did you say
on Jolly? Oh? I know? And I it's a really
bad carry over from childhood and being like a first
(02:52):
generation immigrant where you're just like, yeah, whatever you want
to say is fine, and I didn't correct people, and
now even as an adult, like I don't know why
I don't just say it right away. But I was like, oh,
she means it with love. It's not like she's being disrespectful.
It just doesn't know how to say it's I'm like,
it's fine, but yeah, now I'm I'm supposed to be
of it. I know. I'm trying to be better for
(03:12):
the next generation. I get called Cindy all the time.
You don't you do do not I do. There's no
way anyone's mistaken you for Sunday. They're like starts at
the sea, ends of the hy You you all look alike,
well you don't. You're stunningly beautiful as always, And um,
(03:32):
I feel like my first girl crush might have been
on Christy Turlington Burns when I was Yeah, when you
were in what and like what like fifth grade? What
are you trying to say? Well, it's just as a teenager,
you know, when she came on the scene, it's like
you were the closest thing we had to like ethnic
beauty being represented on on the main stage, you know,
(03:52):
in Vogue and on the pages of my favorite magazines.
And I just you know, I probably had a little
girl crush, don't I don't want to make you on comfortable,
but it's true. One thing, one thing about her, because
I met her during those times. I was lucky the
times I got to work with her because as one
of the big models, she was the nicest she was,
you know, and so with Cindy, But she was always
(04:15):
the nice I believe that. Thank you, Gosh. I want
to hang out with you every day. We're here. We're
here every day just doing this. This is what we do,
just that I'm recording. But has anyone ever called you
other than nice? I mean, I'm proud of having the
reputation of being the nice model of my peer group,
(04:39):
but I I also felt like sometimes it was a
little boring and bland, like just to be nice. I like,
come on, I've got more than that. And I'm sure
I wasn't always nice. I mean, I'm sure I had
my moments, like anyone does. But I definitely saw there
was opportunity to um, I don't know, make myself remembered,
or or to be liked, right, And we all want
(05:01):
to just be liked on the set and like welcomed,
and so to be nice was the easiest way to
um to get that. Yeah, but the answer is no.
Back then, people did not want to be nice. It
was cooler to not be nice. I was always nice.
And there was a hairdresser I don't even remember her
name who literally stopped working and she was awful. And
(05:21):
I saw her again about a year later, and she said,
I'm going to take something out of your playbook. I'm
gonna be nice to everyone. That's my new thing. There
was no chance this girl was ever going to be nice.
There was no chance that we won't name names. I
don't even remember her name. That's how much of a
remember I remember. Then. I'm curious, Yeah, yeah, exactly, Maybe
that's yeah. I guess it's the extremes, right, the divas,
(05:44):
and then the nice ones. I feel like kindness, right,
that's sort of the that's the goal. That's what I
want my children to be. Kind are they? They are? Um,
they're also funny. I think that's the other thing that
you want your kids to be because that keeps this going. Um.
But kind and funny two good qualities. I totally agree.
(06:07):
I think funny is a really great sign of intelligence too.
That's what I keep telling myself, and I am really
hard to be funny. And then I was told recently
in a meeting that I shouldn't tell people that I'm funny.
I should just tell a joke. And I was like, oh,
that burns. That hits a little too. Quotes when people
will ask the question like what is something that nobody
(06:28):
knows about you? Or what's something that's not on Wikipedia?
Like first, I never look at Wikipedia. But secondly it's
like I was like, well, I think I'm funny, and
I think it's a weird thing to say about yourself, right,
Like when you say I think I'm funny, You're like,
you can't possibly be funny, but you are funny. I
know that. Thank you, Christie. I think you're pretty funny.
You're funny, and you're kind. I would agree with all
(06:49):
those ones. So funny and kind, and you're imparting that
to your children as is Bobby, also funny and kind.
Look at us, we're just quite the trio, aren't we?
Just the most wonderful, nice, kind giving people in America? Okay,
so people are listening to think this is really not
worth my time, this is boring. So let's get out
to the to the meat of this podcast, which is
basically it's called The Important Thing because look, everyone knows
(07:14):
you're amazing career. We don't know enough about you, know
what you're doing now, I mean the world doesn't. But
what has changed for you personally since the pandemic? Like,
what are the important things to you now? I mean,
I guess it's it's all the cliches. Really, I think
the sort of slowing down piece of it. I feel
like it's the truth that I that I knew, but
(07:35):
I didn't have a choice but to really like surrender
to it um during the pandemic. I think that's sort
of your family and your your home being where your
heart is, and your your heart being or your home
is that was very evident, like I couldn't be traveling,
I couldn't be moving at the pace that I normally do,
and I fully embraced it, like and I embraced it
(07:56):
quite quickly. I realized like this was not a situation
where I like there was any reason to fight it.
It just was and it was out of our control.
And so not that it was like smooth every day,
but I I early on was like, this is bigger
than me and all of us, and you would have
to write it. And luckily I'm here under the same
roof with the people that I love the most in
the world. So can't be can't be that much. And
(08:18):
are your kids still in the house? Are there? I
don't know how they are. They're back at school. They're
back at school. Um so oh so, Grace's eighteen, she's
a senior, uh in high school and finished sixteen years
of sophomore and so you know, early days pandemic, we
were on Long Island in our house there because spring break,
and then we came back to the city and the
(08:39):
fall of of of last year. Um, and then they've
been out in school back and forth a bit. Um.
But they're in now, which has been really nice for everybody.
I also spent a lot of the pandemic in the
Hampton's and it was for us personally. Having the family
was you know, a blessing. But it was hard. I mean,
(09:02):
I'm not gonna you know, I'm not gonna say it
was hard. Three boys, three dogs. How many dogs did
you guys have in the house? A lot? Three boys,
four or five dogs, fiances, then wives, and then nephews,
so you know, it was amazing. She had a full compound,
going wow, wow, Yeah, I had two kids, two dogs,
(09:24):
and then I didn't even see in that first lockdown
my sister and her kids and her husband lived you know,
ten minutes away. We didn't even see them during that
first you know, eight weeks or whatever, so we really
just were the four of us for the very first time,
I think, without anyone. Um. Yeah, it was. It was
kind of magical. Though. There was a lot that I
(09:46):
really really loved and I still love, especially I feel
like them at these ages where I don't think I
would typically get that kind of quality time, certainly, not
evenings around the table or watching movies together, you know, weekend.
It's like they they would normally be just like a
shadow of themselves. Um, I think during these years, but
lots of quality time and what were you doing? Mostly
(10:09):
were you I was still working as they were going
to school after that initial spring break time and we
were all off and trying to figure out things. My
my mother in law was down in Florida and she
was quite ill and ultimately passed from COVID. So that
was early days. So I feel like we very much
were in that space that um. But we were reading
about in the news and seeing on television like we
(10:31):
lived it, you know, caregivers on the phone and um,
you know, it was it was intense. Um. And then
also my kids really hadn't lost anybody before, so to
have that be their first big loss during the pandemic
while they were home, it was it was pretty intense. UM.
But then once everybody kind of started to find their
(10:52):
their routines, we all found our corner of the house.
We don't have great WiFi out there, so that was
a challenge. You know, crash and we'd all be screaming
like turn on. I guess if anyone really had any
control of that either. But it was kind of also
nice to know, like if they were down. I was down,
like what could we do? I was outside as much
(11:13):
as I could. That was the beauty of being able
to be outside of the city during um those few months,
and so to go for a walk or go for
a run or something like that. I really felt like
the pool of nature even more than I normally do.
UM and I think my kids did too, like bike rides, walks,
um even alone just to like get the space that
we needed to be able to kind of come back
(11:33):
together again. UM. That was kind of critical to clear head.
And you're you're a major marathon or correct major? Yeah,
I completed my ninth full marathon last November. I've done
all the six world marathons as well. Um. Yeah, I
I've found that I love running now. I now, I
(11:55):
kind of wish that I discovered it earlier. But maybe
that's why I'm surviving as a runner now, is that
I didn't discover it earlier, and so far my joints
and bones are intact. So will you share with us
the the tips that you were giving me to start running,
which I admittedly have not started doing. Bobby will enjoy this.
Christie was I think it was last summer You're or
(12:17):
maybe last spring, She's like, would you should run the
marathon with me? And I was like, we obviously don't
know each other very well, because if you knew me better,
you would know that's not something I want to do.
But I was really inspired by the idea that you
had asked me to do it that I was like,
maybe someday, I promise I will run it for you
if I do it, but I don't know that that's
happening even a five k. Honestly, the walking walking is
(12:39):
probably the best exercise you can do, and it's probably
the healthiest for your body. Um, and anyone could do
it anywhere, right like whatever of your urban or suburban
or in rural rural part of the world, I think.
And if you do it at a pace like I think,
that's actually the healthiest for all of us and you
get all the benefits of the like solitude and meditation
(12:59):
and bree thing. Um. Yeah, I think a five k
could be okay for you. Okay, k Unsually do you walk?
I do? I walk a ton. I can walk for
like days. I mean, I would like traverse the country
if I had to walking. I can walk with no problem.
But it's the running I've never you know, it's interesting,
(13:20):
I think because as a kid, I feel like you
guys have different narratives around this. But for me as
a kid, because I wasn't traditionally athletic and like the
American school system, like I didn't play American sports well,
like basketball or volleyball or whatever. I wasn't good at that.
So I had a very strong narrative that I wasn't athletic.
I conflated the two and it was really hard for
(13:40):
me to then grow up and be like, oh, I
was athletic in a different way. But I really was like, oh,
I'm not a fast runner, or I'm not the best
on the basketball team, even if I'm tall or whatever,
So that means I'm not athletic. So it's been hard
to to change that narrative. Christie, how do I change
that narrative? Tell me? We sort of tell yourself right, like, um,
(14:02):
we are what we say we are actually, But my
dad had three girls with my mom, and he had
two children before he was married to my mom. But
there are three sisters, and he had us do every sport,
and I would say I was not the most natural athlete,
but I had to still you know, plague, soccer, um, softball,
(14:23):
ski and he had us do some track and field
as well at little like community college nearby. And I
was I got tall, and I learned that I was
fast when I was young, and so I did think
of myself as a runner, and so then dropped it
for many, many years. And when I came back to
start running, um for for every mother counts, it was
like I discovered or rediscovered that I actually love it.
(14:46):
And it's like human beings, they run for play, they
run like we We are runners, Like human beings are
naturally runners. We just in our sort of more sedentary Um,
I don't know devolution, I would say, have become a
lot more still in static and tied to our seats.
And so I don't know. If you can get that
mentality that it's actually playful, that it's fun as opposed
(15:09):
to a chore like work or exercise, then um, you
can start to kind of discover that part of yourself
that you probably forgot. And were you a runner when
you were modeling a little bit sometimes, but again more
for exercise. I would say, like, I don't know if
you remember, there was like no gyms anywhere, especially in
Europe at the time, hotels didn't have gyms, or if
(15:29):
they did, as like a teeny tiny room um in
the basement of a hotel, and so I would sometimes
bring shoes and go out for a run if I
was jet lagged or there was a park nearby. Um.
But I can't say I loved it. It was more
like the something that I should be doing that I
you know, I should be doing it like a chore
like part of my job, but not necessarily what I loved.
(15:51):
Did you love modeling? No, No, you didn't. You knows
you didn't love modeling. You just kind of sucked, know.
I mean, I think I liked a lot of things
about the job that had nothing to do with the
actual job. Um. I like the people. I like the
playfulness again, I guess like to me when I, yeah,
(16:14):
when I was a teenager and started working, I would
come to New York and you know, you have this
creative group of people playing dress up essentially, like it
was so much more fun than my friends in high
school doing whatever they were doing, Like it like trying
to be trying to go to clubs. And I did
a little bit of that too when I got here.
(16:34):
But for the most part. The work part of the
day was more like fun, like what are we gonna
do today and what's the going to be? And like
playing and trying and scratching it and starting something again,
Like there was something that was so kind of I
don't know, it really felt like a collaborative, fun, creative
process that even as a model, because I don't always
(16:55):
find the model role of the whole team and fashion
to be the most creative one. I mean, certainly there
are some that are very creative, but I always kind
of found like I'm supposed to be sort of I
don't know, playing back in a way another person's or
company's fantasy as opposed to being like an active participant
in it. But there were so many instances early on
that I think I really like that feeling of being
(17:17):
a part of a team and then going on a trip,
Like for me, that travel was always the most fun
part about the whole job and the most exciting part.
And I always love to, like go to a new country,
go to a new city, and so you know, when
you travel with people, you bond, you connect, you have
these shared experiences, and to me that was everything. So
the actually like okay, you gotta get up at five
(17:38):
in the morning and get ready and then go stand
in the cold or do whatever we have to do.
That was like the but the fun part is like
the getting there, the meals in between, the just the
adventures that happened when you get on the road. That
was so Now you're gonna laugh at me because to me,
I mean, I'm a lawyer by training, and but to me,
(17:58):
what you're describing doesn't actually sound that different from what
I loved about being a young lawyer in London or
in Paris or wherever. Was the travel and it was
the people, and there was an aspect of it that
was fun. The job stank like that was not the
fun part, but it was. I mean, I would rather
have been a model, I think in a direct video,
but um, you know, you take what you can get.
(18:19):
But it's uh, I think at that age there is
something so opening through your job. It's just like it
was a different time or like that was really the
portal for me to experience so much was that first
those first work experiences. Absolutely, the people that Christie was
(18:49):
working with. I mean, I'll tell you from being in
the same industry, the top of the top, you know,
the orbit the photographers like honestly, like the top of
the Top. I mean, I don't think you did much
catalog work, Christie, Well that that's actually the funny thing.
I feel like there was a lot of catalog work
then remember Spiegel did you ever work? So there was
(19:10):
like the German clients and the German catalogs right where
you get there, and literally you couldn't sit down for lunch.
It was like, you know, the clock is ticking, and
how I think could get ten shots? I mean like
it was just a machine, and so that's no fun.
I mean you'd hope that you could have a laugh
in the makeup and hair, you know, chairs, because otherwise
it was a bit of torture. And then there was
(19:32):
every now and again the fun shoot, which you're right.
I got to work with some of the most amazing people,
many of them are no longer with us um, but
to have had that experience to get to I think
the beauty also being a model or or on the
hair makeup team, is that we get to come in
and out of those crews and those teams all the time,
work with the different magazines. You get kind of insight
(19:54):
to it all. Whereas the photographers. You know, they only
know what they know, They only know their own universe.
And and I think that can I don't know, for
like the assistance in the groups that are so tightly
connected to at one team. I think you miss a
lot of the fun because you only know that one team. Yeah,
I see you on Instagram, you know with all the
(20:15):
other models, you know, the same models of the same
You know, you seem to be friends with a bunch
of the girls. Do you keep in touch with a
bunch of them? Yeah, I mean I I don't see
too many in person these days, just because of COVID.
But then also not everybody lives in New York anymore. Um,
I you know, I'll see Cindy sometimes. She lives in
l A, but she comes to New York quite a bit.
(20:37):
Uh Naomi is still moving at the pace that she
always did, even in the pandemic somehow, And I mean,
I know, unbelievable. I know, she's she's a hero, amazing.
So when did you start, every mother count what was
happening in your journey when you started at Yeah, I
mean I get, I mean I still model sometimes, so
(20:58):
I can't say I stopped her, but I stopped in
my mind working as a full time model. About ten
years in, I went back to school to just get
my undergrad degree at n y U UM in like
ninety five or ninety six. So that sort of was
the break off to kind of figure out who I
wanted to be and what what were my I had
(21:18):
a ton of interest, but it was like, let me,
let me explore those parts of myself, because I could
see how twenty years could get sucked away if the
industry even would have me. To be honest, I didn't.
I didn't really have a big future plan with my
modeling career. I was always like, oh, wow, here I
am five years in or ten years in. I couldn't
believe actually that I lasted that long. And so then
(21:40):
school I went full time for four years. UM. I
was feeling like, you know, my mid twenties, I I
felt like I was behind and so I was trying
to catch up and I graduated at thirty. What did
you study? Initially? It's I took a liberal arts degree
at the Gallatin School, which is an individualized study program
at n y U. And I initially was interested in
(22:02):
like art history and the things that my sister was
studying in college, like literature, and and then I started
studying comparative religion, and I kind of and I was
practicing yoga a lot at that time in my life
or just starting too, and so my studies kind of
went into comparative religion, Eastern philosophy, and then I got
to still touch on all those parts of the liceral
arts degree that I was already interested in. So it
(22:24):
was so much fun, like the whole experience, not traveling
as much for for the first time in ten years,
sort of creating a home for myself in this city
that I called a home already, you know, from the
age of like sixteen or seventeen, and then like really
making a home. You know. I think I had a
boyfriend in those years, but I wasn't living with anybody,
so it was really creating my own space, my own home,
(22:46):
walking to school, walking home from school, making friends outside
of the industry, and it was a really magical time.
I also started doing other things, you know, like you know,
I guess philanthropy started to kind of become more of
a choice. I think, you know, our industry has always
had since I've been in it, philanthropic side obviously, HIV.
(23:07):
AIDS was a big problem when I became a model
in the mid eighties, and I grew up in the
East Bay area, so outside of San Francisco, so I
felt like I knew people who were dying of AIDS
before I came to New York. And then of course
when I got to New York, you know constantly UM
and so I was aware of that issue, and the
industry really rallied. I would say around it, um, I'd
(23:30):
say soon after that, you know, breast cancers. A lot
of work and activity around that. So I would kind
of play my role but more as a sort of sure,
I'll show up to that thing, yeah, you know, donate.
And then I started to um have more opportunities to
kind of explore for myself, like what what did I
really really care about? And for me, it was pretty straightforward,
(23:52):
like my mom's from Central America, she's from El Salvador.
And I got asked in the very early nineties if
I when the war had ended, there would I, you know,
help out to try to create some I don't know,
positive publicity around the country. And it's a country that
I had grown up going to have been and so
to be able to go back after the war and
(24:13):
have you know, I don't know, for people to realize
that I was actually from that part of the world
was also like a really I think important thing for
me as a young adult. And then my next thing
was my father had cancer and he died from lung cancer.
And I had been a smoker in my teens in
early twenties, so I had an opportunity to kind of
share my testimony and share my dad's story and advocate,
(24:35):
and um, that was a pretty exciting time because you know,
tobacco cessation and prevention was very much in the culture
for the first time. When I look at that public
health nightmare, it's amazing where how far we've come. And
my kids have grown up kind of like they see
a cigarette, they're like what is that. They're seemingly making
a comeback, but for most of their lives they've been
(24:56):
like what is that. I know, if my daughter smells
it on the streets, she's like taking it back, She's like,
what is what's happening? Like, Oh, that's a cigarette, you know,
that's a cigarette smoke, and she's really that's It's like,
that's the normal weed smell that we smell. Anywhere that
she's used to. Unfortunately, in the streets of New York.
I think that she doesn't notice. But cigarette smoke is
quite charring. It's interesting. We didn't know it was bad
(25:17):
for you back then, you know. I mean I smoked
in high school. No one said you shouldn't be doing this,
it's not good for you, which is crazy. I kind
of think I knew it was bad for me, but
I I also was attracted to it for those reasons.
You know, my dad smoked always and said there was
always cigarettes around. I feel like most of my friends
parents one or both smoked. So when we started like
(25:38):
sneak cigarettes or you know, try to look like we
were older or cool, we would be smoking. And I
also grew up horseback riding, and everyone around the horses
smoked like everyone. So yeah, I started smoking in my
I don't know, twelve thirteen a little bit. And then
by the time I was modeling at fifteen, I would
like carry my pack of cigarettes around and I was
smoking all the time. And I think in those early
(25:59):
years too, when I was a bit more shy and
trying to kind of get the lay the land, it
gave you this sense that you were doing something when
you weren't doing anything when you're sitting like now people
would be on their phone, but back then, you'd sit
in a studio in a corner while they were like
ignoring you or like making you wait to have an appointment,
and you just like smoke cigarettes, drink coffee, smoke cigarettes
(26:20):
and sit there as if like you're you're doing something. UM. Anyway,
I I quit when I was about twenty five, right
before I went back to college, and my dad died
two years later, and so I felt very confident by
the time I started advocating on that issue that I
was done done and that I could be trustworthy UM
(26:41):
public person advocating on that topic. And and that's where
I kind of got excited about public health and advocacy
really UM. And that sort of prepared me for when
I became a mom. And when I became a mom,
I experienced a postpartum hemorrhage. And that's really what brought
me into this work around internal health. Wow, So what
(27:01):
your did you what did you found it two thousands? Oh?
I found the organization two thousand and ten, but I
became a mom in two thousand and three. But you
realize the power of your voice in that different way
must have been pretty incredible. I mean, because it's you know,
you're where where you're talking about how you were. You know,
when you're modeling that you're bringing somebody else's vision to
(27:23):
life or your kind of acting in that way. But
then to be able to take that attention in the
spotlights that's being shown on you and shine it on
things that you care about, it's pretty powerful. Yeah. And
I think there's when you're at all in the public,
I feel like there's a sort of pressure or there's
the questions like, oh, and you should feel like you
you should be doing these things. And yet to me,
(27:45):
there's nothing worse than having somebody in an obligatory way,
I guess, put themselves out there just to do it
because it's the right thing to do. It's to me,
it really had to feel grounded in like an experience
um for me to find my voice in that. And
I think going back to school also gave me confidence.
Just like I had to talk in the classroom, I
(28:06):
had to share my thoughts and my ideas, I had
to introduce myself every semester in every class like that
gave me a certain kind of confidence outside of my career,
which was a success, and I didn't have to, like,
you know, you kind of earn your stripes right in
the industry. Like at a certain point you can say
more because your experience, your experiences inform you that, Like
(28:26):
you see somebody else with me, you're like, hey, I
didn't know I could do that, but now I can.
Like remember the first time I said I'm not going
to wear fur. I didn't know I could say that.
I figured, like, I'm hired, it's not my choice, but
I of course I had choice within the realm of um,
you know, a certain amount of choice. But it also
must have been such a transition for you because you
(28:47):
were known for your face. You couldn't go anywhere without
people either staring at you were saying something or you know,
there were no phones back then, so maybe pull out
their camera and take a picture. And then all of
a sudden, you're going back to school and be mean
someone that talks about the things that matters. I just
think it must have been maybe subconsciously like empowering for
(29:08):
you that it wasn't just about the way you look.
Absolutely absolutely, And yet I also feel like it happened
gradually enough that it never felt like something that happened overnight.
And I also felt I don't know, I never felt
like I attracted the kind of attention that some of
my peers did. Like I wasn't followed around with a
camera outside of work. I really wasn't. I didn't. I
(29:29):
didn't have a very um I don't think I had
such an exciting, uh like personal life. So for me
being able to like look like I did if I
wasn't at work with makeup and dressed up, I kind
of ease in and out of life very easily. The differences.
I feel like I have a last name that is
a little unique. It's not something you hear all the time,
(29:50):
so it's not like Christie Smith sitting in the background class.
But mostly it didn't matter. I think the age difference
that I was, even from my student peers, was enough
that they weren't as in the weeds of what I did.
I feel like my peer group if I was with
people that were my age, maybe, but I already feel
like students eight years younger than me, like they were
(30:11):
in the whoever was next? Like you know what I mean?
It wasn't like they were preoccupied. That was I didn't
know what it was going to be like, and it
was much more comfortable than I realized. And then it
just got more and more comfortable, as like a muscle
you practice, you know, you just you just do and
then you're like, oh, I can get outside of my
comfort zone or I can blend in and I you know,
(30:31):
no one's looking at me in thinking why am I
talking about this or why do I have this opinion?
It just sort of you know, all of us have
an opportunity to do that if we feel confident in
doing it, and should have the voice and place to
do it. And so tell me just a little bit
more about what every mother accounts does I mean besides
education and awareness, yeah, we UM. I mean our mission
(30:54):
is really to make pregnancy and child worth safe for
every mother everywhere, which is a massive mission UM. But
what that entails is educating the public in a big
way through UM films and storytelling, UM, through working on
policy and advocacy changed so that people can sort of
demand for change, UM, advocate on behalf of themselves for
(31:15):
what they need in that moment um, to advocate for
support for respectful care. I think it's sort of assumed
that you know, even if you have access to healthcare
that that's like quality care, but actually, like quality care
is really quite um interesting, Like, you know, we sort
of expect a very low standard of quality, I think
(31:38):
in terms of our interaction with um with medical providers.
And I think, you know, we all are intimidated by doctors.
And I know, Angelo, you you're married to one, so
you will see this in a different way. But I
feel like most people kind of again talk about surrender.
They see somebody that's in a white coat or that
has doctor next to their name, and they're like, Okay,
(31:58):
you know best, you're the boss. I feel that way too,
And the thing, yeah, I've been married for twenty some
years and I still feel that way when a doctor
walks in the room, but to the point that actually
it's it's weird. My husband will even like when we're
going through our medical stuff trying to have a baby, um,
the doctor would walk on the room and I would
completely clam up. And I'm not shy for talking and
advocating for myself, but in that scenario, you're so vulnerable,
(32:22):
you're so nervous. I was, at least, and I would
completely clamb up. I wouldn't ask questions. I wouldn't, you know,
it was really unlike me, and so I'd have to
write them all down and make him as that, which
was so great. It's so not how I am in
any other part of my life. But in a medical setting,
I felt super nervous. Yeah, I think you do. I
think everyone feels that way to an extamp. But I
think then put on put add onto that you're a woman,
(32:45):
add onto that, if you're a woman of color, um
add on to that. You know, like there's just these
different layers. And so I think our system has really
sat people up for not feeling their most confident, not
feeling that they know how their bodies work, or feel
that connection to themselves enough to be able to know
what questions to ask. And I really think healthcare needs
to be a partnership. It needs to be like patient
(33:08):
and provider coming together and working together to have the
best possible outcome. So we do a lot of just
like sharing of resources and information, just making it in
this world of so much information, especially around pregnancy and childbirth.
Right like you go googling, and you know you'd be,
you know, beside yourself, terrified of what could possibly happen,
(33:28):
and yet a healthy amount of fear and maybe just
being aware of the possibilities is also really empowering. Um.
I was very very prepared coming into pregnancy. It was
like I was ready to become a mom. I felt
like I'd had one career, i had gone back to school,
I started a few other kinds of careers, and I
was like, I'm ready. I'm in my thirties, I'm not
(33:50):
a baby. I'm like, I'm informed. I have a supportive
like husband and like a system around me to like
get me the support I needed. And and then the
annex spect it happened, which was to have that experience
of the postpartum hemorrhage after my baby was born. So
when you think, like healthy child, she's out of my body,
surely this is over, and then it's like, no, they're
(34:13):
just starting. Yeah, exactly exactly. So I feel like I
feel like I was informed and I wasn't completely. And
I just know how many other people don't have any
sexual reproductive education at school. We don't allow it to
be taught in most states, um, you know, most counties
(34:34):
in the country. So like people are really not that
aware and sort of fighting themselves pregnant oops sex pregnant,
not having a savings because it's very expensive to become
a parent UM, as you both know, and UM to
support a child and a family through UM, through pregnancy
and childbirth, and then to raise them for the rest
(34:54):
of their life. UM. Like these are things that need
a lot of thought and care and planning, and most
people in the world, but in this country, enter it
not prepared and so part of our I would say,
our role as an organization is making sure that people
know their rights, know their options, UM, utilize those options,
(35:17):
learn to use their voice, ask the questions UM, and
then advocate so that others can have a better experience UM.
Because I truly believe, like you know, this has to
get better UM, and in order for it to get better,
we all have to be sort of out there talking
and advocating together. Where is the focus of your work
(35:37):
works countries and you do a lot more in the
US than I knew about. Yeah, we increased a lot
through COVID. Actually, I would say before before COVID, we
were about maybe of our funding went to programs here
in the US, all community based UM. And then we
also have pritners in Guatemala, Haiti, India, Bangladesh, Tanzania, uh Nepal,
(36:02):
and Indonesia. UM. And you know, like I'm actually leaving
for Africa on Sunday, and so we're going to be
adding to our African partners, you know, through a few
new relationships in Kenya most likely, but also visiting Tanzania.
I mean, there's so much neat around the world that's
like a very like tiny tiny amount of countries to
(36:25):
be focused on. And yet it's always been really important
that there is a kind of global perspective on this issue. Um.
You know, when I first started learning about the magnitude
of the problem that you know, hundreds of thousands of
girls woman die every year from pregnancy and childbirth related complications.
You know, of those deaths do happen in the global South,
(36:47):
in the developing world. UM. But the United States is
ranked fifty five in the world, Like we are doing
so badly and we've fallen behind from forty one in
the world since I became a mom. And you know,
we're of two industrialized countries with the highest matroal mortality
like ratio on the rise, Like why how is that possible?
(37:08):
So the stats are shocking. Those those stats are so
and I think people really just assume it's another place
problem as opposed to it's happening in our own backyards,
and people are not aware of it, and I don't
know what resources are needed and all that into the
work you're doing. It's really incredible to shine a light
on it and to really, you know, just to get
everyone to understand that there's not a a problem happening
(37:30):
to other people. It's happening right here too. And you're
taking care of the world. You're taking care of your family.
How does Christie take care of Christie? Tell us some
of your like tangible secrets, like what do you eat?
What do you you know? Do take baths? What are
your things? Oh? I love baths. My whole family are
big bathsakers. Think goodness? Wit of live in California anymore?
(37:52):
Um I I yoga. I mean I discovered yoga at
eighteen years old, and it has been the kind of
that keeps giving in the pandemic. I went from practicing
like two times a week, where I would like squeeze
those classes in on my busy work week or when
I was traveling. I went to like practicing six days
a week, I practiced from home. I'm still doing like
(38:13):
zoom classes with a group two groups from California that
just started in those early weeks and have just been
my like steady, steady, consistent, like reprieve in my day
that keeps me going. What kind of yoga? Um, it
is like a vinyasa practice. Um. You know, I've kind
of over the years done at all from Mashtonga to
(38:37):
I younger. But I found that, like I like to
have more precision around post years after doing it for
so many years. But at the same time, I like
to have sort of flow in the practice. Yeah, I
like it's been my favorite. And what about food? Food?
Do you have a practice in food? Not really? I
mean I I mean I try. I think I'm a
(38:57):
pretty healthy eater. But I was vegetarian for a few
years but before I became a mom and then I
just kind of listen to my body. I feel like moderation.
I mean, I try to eat things that are seasonal.
I don't like indulge too much, but not because I
not because I don't allow myself to. Just I feel
like moderation is the way. Um, I do have guilty
(39:17):
pleasure and fried foods I love. I mean, like, if
it's fried and it's in front of me, I will
eat almost anything. Um, but I am, but I don't
tend to have it that much like temporo will be
like on the edge for me in my normal life.
My daughter became a vegan over a year ago, and
(39:37):
so she's been introducing more plant based foods in our
all of our lives that I think is beneficial to
us all um. It's also made her a better cook,
and so that's been really nice that she kind of
wants to share and she wants us to sort of try.
And you know, if she see I cleanse sometimes like
once a year or so, she'll be like, Mom, don't
just cleanse, just just do vegan. Just do vegan with me.
(39:59):
You don't have to do a juice cleans like, you
don't have to just just be vegan. So I'm kind
of open, I believe, and maybe yoga helped me get there.
But I feel like I listen to my body, and
my body typically tells me what I need. Um, And
if I eat something that isn't great for me, it's
easily eliminated, you know what I mean. It doesn't stick
(40:21):
very long so quite literally, you are so balanced. I
think it's quite something. But so there's one question I
ask everyone that's on the show, and I think it's
the most important one, which is if people listening could
do one thing that you're gonna recommend that could change
their life, one thing, what would it be? I would
(40:42):
say initiative practice, a meditation practice, a yoga practice, a
practice um, something that has you sort of sitting with yourself,
getting comfortable, sitting in solitude or in peace quiet um.
And I think that could be in movement to I suppose,
but just that sort of you know, when I run,
(41:05):
I don't take music with me, I don't listen to podcast.
Sorry for your daughters, but hey, I want to be
That's like one of the few times of the day
where I'm not connected, where I can just breathe and
I can just take in what's around me and the
noises of the city or the noises of the country
wherever I am. And so I don't know, I think
building a practice figuring out how to be alone with
(41:26):
yourself is a really healthy practice. I like that a lot,
being alone with yourself as Yeah, but you can take
us with you listener, don't listen to question. Well, thank
you so much for joining us. It's been amazing to
you know, to first of all to see you and
always one of my favorites, one of my favorite humans,
not just favorite models, so I will say that here here,
(41:50):
Thank you, Thank you so much, such a joy, joy
to be with you both. To doto dot to be
inher
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