January 31, 2025 • 41 mins
The John Kobylt Show Hour 2 (01/31) - Mark Thompson fills in for John. Bryan Suits comes on the show to talk about more background on Blackhawk helicopters. A man says his wife texted him just minutes before the airline crash in DC. NTSB press conference.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Can't. I am six forty. You're listening to the John
Cobel podcast on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Mark Thompson here for John Cobelt today and we're reviewing
some of the details as they become available around this
horrible midair crash in DC. And because of the clear
involvement of the military, and it was a military training
exercise in which this black Hawk helicopter was involved, we
(00:26):
thought we'd bring in Brian Suits, who just knows such
great granular detail about so very much that relates to
the military. And I'm sure you have some takes on
what happened, Hi, Brian.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
It drips on pranular detail. I'm telling you, Mark, I
respect you so much. I check you up there, but
it's here on the phone.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Wow, that is high praise, thank you, thank you. Well,
we had to, you know, we had to put up
the bat beam and get ahold of you today because
there is so much that seems to overlap with the
world that you know so well.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
You know.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Well, here's the thing. I live underneath the approach pattern
for sea tack. So five thousand feet above me are
the seven thirty sevens of a year southwest near Alaska,
I'm about ten miles away from the storied Fort Lewis,
home of a part of the legendary one to sixtieth
(01:21):
aviation Special Operations Aviation. I know some of those dudes,
and they do low level training just below the sea
tax approach pattern, and they make really sure not to
get in there. And I have some la fun facts
for all you military aviation buffs. So that's that's what
a lucky day did for you. Mark. And my dad's
(01:43):
retired to traffic control guy, he's dead. It's Julius Caesar.
But the point is I grew up in an air
traffic in the FAA household.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
All right, well then you know, spill, spill, spill, give
us more.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yet yet good? I got to say, good reaking information.
If people remember Reagan versus the Professional Art Traffic Controllers
Organization PATCO, you remember he fired them, And at that
time my dad had just retired. My dad did twenty
nine years in diamond Hood. That's where he did the
Honolulu Center. He was never in a tower. But no,
(02:19):
I got to say, because I know a couple of
these guys, they all do you know several annual tests
for for night for cross country? Uh, instrument cross country
visual and all that, but nighttime instrumentation is a huge
rating because if they lose that, they lose everything. Those
(02:41):
guys and in d C and they're flying VIPs mainly,
they're not flying tactical people, and they take that dad
serious and so when they're up, they're always training. There's
no such thing as a non training event in the
DC area. You know they're they're training in at night.
It happens every day. At the end of the day,
(03:04):
they take to the sky. They put on nods what
are called night observation devices or night vision. They put
on ods their training period, period final. Every all three
guys on the ur person soldiers on that aircraft pilot,
co pilot and crew chief are are if they don't
have the nods over their eyes, one person always has
(03:24):
them on. So there's that.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well, let me just ask you about that with a
quick follow because we are listening to that lieutenant colonel
and former Blackhawk pilot. We're listening maybe it's been fifteen
minutes ago. Here on Kofi was saying that you can
fly into an area with a lot of city lights,
which Washington certainly has, and it can be hard to
differentiate between the aircraft and street lights, you can literally
(03:48):
just lose. Notwithstanding what you've just said, which is odd
to me. If they've got these night vision capabilities, I
don't understand how they do lose sight of something like
an airliner.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I wouldn't do it, man, I got to tell you
you're lucky to get me on a helicopter. I'm sure
as hell wouldn't do it at night with both the
both those pilots with nods on. But anyway, so here's
number one. When you put night out night vision goggles
nods on, like if you're an infantryman or my case,
out of the cavalry shout. I have hundreds of hours
on nods, right, it's disorienting as hell when you're a
(04:22):
human being under your feet. Thing one and everyone needs
to know this. Put all your ideas of Buffalo Bill
another movie movie night vision goggles number one, You have
no depth perception. Your depth perception disappears and minute you
put them on, just like you're looking at binoculars. Okay,
so now you're flying an aircraft with no depth perception.
(04:46):
All you can do is it enhances light. Night vision
enhances light. It doesn't invent it doesn't pull it out
of it. You know it it enhances the light that exists,
so normal bright white street light will blind you, uh,
and other like you know, you want to go red
light on an airplane, or you want to go infrared,
(05:08):
and even even then like infrared this one time. Now
you notice an army story. I put on night vision
goggles and a guy had cracked an infrared kem light
like it is an infrared rave. He cracked it in
the middle of the day. Didn't know it was. It
was cracked open, and it was it blinded me. I
(05:30):
put on the night vicon goggles. I was a gunner.
I went down in the driver's hat with the vehicle
and I went, what the a F? And when everyone
put them on, they saw what I was saying for.
It's because we're sitting there with an infrared kem light
on and was so bright that close to it that
I mean, that's why you can see him ten miles away,
not one mile away, but ten miles away. So so
(05:52):
people need to know when pilots are on their nods,
they're being tested, they're hopefully the instructor pilot has them
on too. And so when civilian air type of control says,
do you see that plane ahead of you? They don't
know that the pilots are on nods. They don't know
how disorienting that is. And the pilots are looking ahead
(06:13):
and you don't know what light they're looking at. I honestly,
I'm not a helicopter pilot, thank god, but I mean,
I got to say, I think that there's something to
the disorientation that happens between the pilots and the civilian
air type of controllers in the tower. They don't know
that these guys are looking through MVG through nods, and
(06:34):
that they don't know what he means by, you know,
because a civilian airliner you might think it's big. A
great experience in life is getting on a plane at Burbank.
You know, you enter the tail if you're smart, But
I mean, you realize that this seven thirty seven looks
small when it's flying, but it's pretty huge. Well, this thing,
the regional jet, the Bombardier aircraft, it's like a big
(06:56):
Gulf from It's like a gulf Stream six fifty. It's huge.
It seems like, how can you miss that? Well, you're
going two hundred miles an hour. You're supposed to be
underneath him. You're not supposed to enter that approach lane.
You're supposed to have turned around. The instructor pilot probably
should have told you or you should know it, and
(07:17):
you shouldn't be anywhere near him. Because the original report
was the civilian aircraft descended onto the the the Blackhawk. Well,
how how the hell does that happen? I remember thinking, Okay,
that's not what happened, and that's not what happened. When
people see that video, you see a white light. You
see that the black Hawk was running with lights on.
(07:39):
Because it's in civilian airspace. The lights are on. They're
not in a controlled military air space like Yakama, Washington
or Port or Win in California. You don't get to
run with no lights normally. The black Hawks, I've been
terrified in all the lights are the internal lights and
(08:00):
like the cockpit will maybe run red lights on the
instruments so the pilots can read the instruments through red light.
But they don't have navigation lights on that they normally
would over La or whatever. But that that's how that
So these kids are running with navigation lights so that
other people could see them. But you can't expect the
(08:21):
pilots of a seven thirty seven or a regional jet
to you know, they're not a fighter. They can, they can.
They have a really narrow right now. They're focused on
landing minutes away. And now they're told, you know that
there's rotary wing in your area. Okay, I look left,
look for I don't see it because because the guy's
a tiny white dot of light. But so anyway, yeah, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Stop right there, because I think I'll see if you
can stay with us for what we've got to take
a break. But I did want to ask you about
some of what you as you're speaking. Some of what
you're saying really does seem to point to what would
be a clear and I get the impression that there's
a lot of stuff that came together to make this happen.
But it sounds as though those chopper pilots and might
(09:07):
have really been out of where they were supposed to be,
and they may have not realized clearly right that they
were at this altitude. The early reports had them one
hundred feet higher than they should have been. And what
you're saying is, yeah, they're usually on an altitude that
keeps them clear of commuter traffic.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Here, I am. I have helicopters over at tree top
level at one am all the time. There are two
thousand feet below the aircraft. They are the landing at
Tea Tech. They're never higher than that. I mean, I
swear these the one sixtieth night Soccers as they're called,
they're lucky if they're above tree top level. They did
(09:49):
something wrong. Yeah, and that part training.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah exactly. It really sounds like at minimum there was
that going on. We'll finish up with Brian Suits when
we continue. Mark Thompson for John Cobell and KFI AM
six forty live everywhere in the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
You're listening to John Cobelt on demand from KFI AM
six forty.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I was just looking because got Brian Suits here. For
the last couple of minutes, we were talking about this
accident in Washington. Brian, of course, with so much knowledge
of military and the military apparatus, sort of involved in
all of this. And I say that in regard not
just to the Blackhawk, but the fact that Brian was
talking about the night vision goggles that they were wearing
(10:32):
and how that actually is restrictive in a sense. It
was really a fascinating thing to hear you say that, Brian,
that it doesn't necessarily allow you to see at night
with the same kind of understood perception that one might have,
like do you see that over there?
Speaker 4 (10:47):
You were explaining that.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Well, actually, with those night vision goggles, you oftentimes don't
see whatever that is over there necessarily.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, if it's right in front of you and it's huge,
you have no sense of that, you know, I mean
seven forty seven you're going to see the shape, and
the shape is going to tell you more than your
perception of the size because you have no depth perception.
In spite of what people might think of what night vision,
you know, it's a generation three, it's called now it's phenomenal,
but you still if you put two binoculars a monocular
(11:19):
and a left eye a monocular in your right eye,
you have two monoculars and you can kind of adjust
them like a binocular for a little bit of stereo effect.
But it's almost with night vision is an illusion. How
how FA team hoals do it, I don't know, but
they do it by training, by the way.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, right, exactly, And that training speaks very much to
what was going on there at at DC. So it's
interesting you're also mentioning Burbank and Lax in relation to this.
Could you tie that all together?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Okay, So the people don't know this. You live in
the LA area and it's huge. It is a perfect
training ground for a bunch of different elite Army helicopter
born units or helicopter helicopter pilots and Marine Corps units
on on the one. Well, one thing that happens every
it'll happen tonight at sundown. That happens during sun sun up.
(12:17):
If you know, Kinga Pass, the one on one that
is a it's a way to avoid the burbank approach
and departure pattern when it's southbound. So everything from a
ospray full of Marines to one of the weird helicopters
of the Marines have when they come north, they come
up Congo, they come right through Cooanga Pass one hundred
(12:39):
feet over one o one. Very common. And I know
this personally because I used to live on Predonia in
uh in coinca pass which me and what's his name anyway, well,
you know, you know, you know the you know one
celebrity and Hollywood prere is right there. It is made
(13:03):
by Harpo Marx, a great little, great little neighborhood. But
if you hear something briefly, you're about to see an ospre,
You're about to see a sea stallion or a sea
night or a cobra or whatever. And it's going back
to Camp Pendleton or it's coming from Camp Pendleton because
it has to avoid Burbank departure. It has to it
can't fly through the middle of Burbank approach departure. Just
(13:25):
for the same reason that pursuit helicopters that are you know,
doing the Lord's work on my Fox eleven or whatever.
They have to break off the coverage when when an
airplane goes through that one large airport.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Down by.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
You know, down by El Segundo, when they when they
go through the approach departure and they're on four oh five,
they have to break out the cover. Police have to
break it off police helicopters because you can't fly through
a civilian airspace. So clearly does don't don't crash into
the plane.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
But in this case they had and apparently do have
these training exercises going on constantly, either adjacent to or
through these very spaces you're talking about, which are remember.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
The air The tower guy said, go behind it. I
mean he said vision. He didn't say, you know you
was maneuver acts. He said go behind he said visually.
He already said audio wise, go behind it. Acknowledge. And
the guy said, okay, Roger, I see it. And the
shortcoming was, you see what? You see? A light in
(14:33):
front of you? But I'm describing this one at your
flight level, at your altitude and your elevation whatever that is.
But that's your altitude and that's the one controller man
meet you. Do you see the aircraft going from your
left to your right, from south to north right in
(14:54):
front of you? You see you see endless like the
ahead of you. But he but he took the pilots.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Let's see it.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Well, you see what? I don't know what you see?
You see what?
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
And I mean, what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, even as a layperson, I heard that and I thought, wow,
that's way too generic. Do you see that? Do you
see it? Do you see what I mean? It's just
way way too generic. Brian, I knew, yeah, I just
knew you'd be able to shed some light on this,
And thank you. I think there's so much more that
still has to be revealed. Obviously, we're taking this NTSB
press conference in just a few minutes live and we'd
(15:28):
love to be able to talk to you more about
this as those revelations come to pass.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Okay, the Dark Secret Place, remember the Darksecret Place dot com.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
The folks, the Dark Secret Place dot com. Brian Suits,
thank you, my friend. Great to talk to you anytime. Mark, Okay,
we'll speak again. It is the John Covelt Show. We
are waiting for that live press conference. Will take it
from NTSB when they begin it. We're KFI A M
six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 5 (15:59):
You're listening to John Cobel's on demand from KFI AM six.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Forty John Cobelt Show, John Off Today. Mark Thompson sitting in.
We're waiting on an NTSB conference that will that presser
will start. It should start any minute now. We'll take
it live obviously when it does begin, details coming out
in bits and pieces about this Potomac crash, a tragedy
from start to finish, and it reveals a lot of
(16:26):
what we knew, what was talked about in circles around Washington,
issues around the volume of air traffic in and out
of that airport, the proximity of that airport to military
training exercises, when those training exercises went on, what kind
of exercises, what kind of limitations, And there have been
(16:48):
as well, close calls. We've detailed those for you a
bit today and you're going to hear more about them
because this has been, as I say, for easily a
decade a conversation in and around this airport. But the
human tragedy is profound, the loss is profound. And a reporter,
(17:14):
this guy, Walter Harris in Washington, NBC reporter, spoke to
and is in touch with a man who says his
wife texted him just before this crash in DC.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
She texted me that she said, we're landing in twenty minutes.
Speaker 7 (17:33):
That was the last thing Kamad Rosa heard from his wife,
Osra Hussein, and by the time he arrived at Reagan
National Airport less than a half hour later, he realized
something was very wrong.
Speaker 6 (17:42):
So I was waiting and I saw I started seeing
a bunch of EMS vehicles speeding past me like way
too many than normal.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
And two my texts weren't going through.
Speaker 7 (17:54):
Roso watching the massive response from Terminal two as one
hundred the first responders race to the rescue OSRA Whoscein
was one of sixty four people on board American Airlines
Flight fifty three forty two that collided with the military
helicopter as an approached DCA Wednesday night. Raza says she
was in Wichita for work and never made it home.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
It's it's just feels crazy that it happened to us,
to be honest, I mean it's like you see these
things happen in the news. You see them happen in
other countries, and then I show up to the airport
and my wife's not responding, and I look on Twitter
and all.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Right, we're going to go to the news conference now.
Speaker 8 (18:35):
The ntsbman, I'm the board member on scene, and we'll
be briefing today where we're at in the investigation in
regard to the CRJ accident with the Sikorsky helicopter.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
Let me just start with it. As usual, our hearts
go out to all the families of the victims. In fact,
I've just spent the last several hours with them before
we came here, and I apologize that we had to
move this back, but they are one of our primary concerns,
along with making sure we get factual information out they
(19:09):
are having. It's a hard time for them, obviously, and
we want to do everything we can to make sure
they get the most accurate information and factual and has
always been at the core of the NTSB mission. Our
job is to just come out with the probable cause,
but then more importantly make recommendations so that this type
(19:31):
of tragedy never occurs again. So today, I know yesterday
you saw the Chairman, myself and all the board members here.
I just want to let you know they are still
actively involved with this. We're just trying to make sure
we're dividing our conquering. The Chairman and I have had
multiple conversations today. She's helped out a lot and making
(19:52):
sure we're getting the investigative needs we have, and she's
at the command post right now working with some of
our people. I'd like to start by just thinking the
first responders. When this first happened, a unified command was
set up and we had a lot of important people
that came and worked with us. In Virginia, the Fairfax
(20:14):
County Fire and Rescue, Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department,
Arlington County Fire and Rescue, Arlington County Emergency Management, Arlington Police,
Alexandria City Fire, Alexandria Police, Virginia State Police, the NCR
Incident Management Team, the Virginia Department of Emergency Management, the
(20:36):
Virginia Department of Transportation, the Virginia Senator Warner's Office, m
wi's Fire and Rescue Team, m WHAW Police. A special
shout out to every one of them, but m WAW
has been amazing and helping and working with us, and
we're truly appreciative, along with DC Fire and Rescue, just
the extraordinary taking the lead. Prince William in Maryland, the
(21:02):
Montgomery Fire and Rescue, Prince George's Fire and Rescue, Charles
County Fire and Rescue, Baltimore Fire, Baltimore Police, and Arundel
Fire Department, Maryland State Police, Maryland Natural Resource Police, MPD, DCFD.
From the federal side, the US Coast Guard, US Army,
US Air Force, FBI, Secret Service, Customs and Border Patrol,
(21:25):
Park Police, DoD Naval District Washington, American Medical Response, and yes,
the US Department of Labor. All of those have been
amazing partners and are one of the reasons why that
this investigation continues to progress the way we wanted to.
As I said, we did family briefings last night and
today there are over one hundred family members that are
(21:47):
now in the area receiving briefings and as part of
the legislative requirement receiving family assistance, they have been briefed
by the medical examiner, the fire Chief, intus B Chairman,
and myself along with the Family Assistant unit from PSA Airlines.
In regard to NTSB staff, all staff are now on
(22:11):
sen that have men requested and I want to point
out one specific staff member because we're doing a joint
NTSB and DoD investigation, the NTSB actually has a Blackhawks
certified pilot on staff on our personal staff based out
of Alaska. Once we realize the dynamics and the intricacies
(22:34):
of the Blackhawk, we have brought that member in. They
are on scene now providing direct technical assistance to the NTSB.
It does not mean that the dd is not working
and helping with us, but in order to maintain our independence,
we have our own black Hawks certified pilot in the
Working Group for Helicopters regarding salvage at this point. The
(22:57):
Navy Supervisor of Salvage is conducting salvage operations. At the
current time, barges are en route from Virginia Beach and
we anticipate them to be on scene early tomorrow morning.
After their arrival, they will be secured, located, and then
(23:17):
significant salvage operations will continue. They are ongoing right now,
but this will be the main lifting. It's being done
in conjunction with the DC Medical Examiner's Office in order
to make sure simultaneously that any additional victims are recovered
and immediately turned over to them for identification and returned
(23:40):
to their families. SOUPS Out, which is the supervisor of salvage,
is also conducting a debris mapping right now. This will
help in our post accident analysis of how the machine
actually reacted to the incident. It also help us with
understanding some of the airworthiness and crashworthiness and human factors.
(24:06):
We have right now two distinct debris fields. One that
houses the Sekorski, which is in comparison to the CRJ
a little bit smaller to the CRJ is in another
distinct area and we consider a little bit larger the
good news is based upon the initial mapping. While there
(24:28):
are some small aspects of that debris field, there are
large chunks that will be easily recoverable and it will
aid in the investigation when we bring it into the
secured facility that will be located here on m Y.
That will help us in the close proximity to be
able to review and evaluate. Yesterday we outline for you
(24:51):
a number of groups that have been stood up. A
few of them in particular, I want to call out,
although every one of them have been working very hard
for your edification. The ATC group air Traffic Control has
been conducting interviews today, they're ongoing tonight, that will be
ongoing for probably the next few days. We've had full
(25:14):
cooperation in getting the witnesses that we need to gain
those interviews. We will then take that information and match
it with other data that we're seating, and if necessary,
conduct following interviews at a later time. Our Operations group
now has on site an exemplar airplane similar to the
(25:34):
CRJ seven hundred. It's on a hard stand here at
n W. They will use that to evaluate cockpit configuration, seating,
things like that. So whenever the salvage comes up, we're
able to use an exemplar aircraft to match it against
examples such as where maybe switches are navigational AIDS electronics.
(25:56):
It is almost the exact same configuration as the incident aircraft.
I want to clarify one thing. There's been a lot
of questions in discussion regarding manifest. Let me make this
very clear. The NTSB will not and has not released
(26:17):
a manifest. We have not in our history, not in
our past, we will not be in this accident. In fact,
there's specific congressional language that whenever it is in our possession,
it is not available through the Freedom of Information Act.
It will not be included in our report. We will
not be putting any names of any of the victims.
(26:41):
Any release of that information will come from other individuals
or groups. Regarding the recorders, as many of you saw
last night, we recovered from the CRJ two separate recorders.
One was a fd FR that is a flight data
(27:07):
recorder fifty that was actually in what we consider good condition.
As part of that process, it was soaked into alcohol overnight.
It was then open today and we have a high
level of confidence that we will be able to get
(27:28):
a full download in the very near future. Now, once
we do have that download, we will not be releasing
immediately the information regarding it. We will have to go
through correct the data sets, make sure they're synchronized. This
has approximately rough up to possibly two thousand data points
(27:51):
is it reference, So all of that has to be
synchronized and looked at. It's a very laborious practice, takes
a lot of time. Regarding the crj's Cockpit Voice recorder,
once it was recovered and opened, we found that it
had water intrusion. That is not uncommon. It is not
(28:14):
an unusual event for us to receive a recorder with
water intrusion. We deal with that all the time. Our
recorder's division is one of the best in the country,
in the world. Actually, we have a quarter sent everywhere.
So there's a step. The CVR was soaked overnight in
ionized water, at which point the team put the CVR
(28:38):
into a vacuum oven in order to astract moisture. They
are still checking electrical connections to determine if they're ready
to try a download. It is one step of many
steps that we will take in order to get that data.
But we have a very high level of confidence that
we will have it. We just have to work through
(28:58):
a number of steps. Lastly, on recorders, the Sikorski, where
the CRJ has two separate recorders, the Sikorski has a
combined cockpit voice recorder and digital flight data recorder. It's
in one box. I can report to you now we
(29:20):
have recovered the Sikorski black Box. It is safely at
the NTSP headquarters. It will begin in evaluation, just as
the other two recorders did last night, to determine when
and how to take action. I can't tell you from
a visual inspection, we saw no exterior damage that would
(29:43):
indicate that it was compromised at this time, so we
have a high level of confidence that we will be
able to have a full extraction from that as well.
Those are some of the significant updates we have right now.
Obviously we'll be doing some more in the essence of
time and making sure our team gets back.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
You're listening to John Cobels on demand from KFI A
M sixty.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
I think we're gonna be able to take maybe four
or five questions. I'll call on you and I'll repeat it,
so we'll try to play that game a little bit.
Please right here, your name and outlook. Please selling someone
that they want to be heroes. All of these hands
(30:28):
and sales that you said, we absolutely should be reviewing used.
Speaker 7 (30:34):
By spos Helper plus days a complex makes of traffic.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
You see rise He stays, You're listening to an NTSB
live press conference with details of the crash that's being investigated.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
So the question for those watching, is it this time
now for us to possibly deconflict or change some of
the airspace where military aircraft operate with commercial aircraft. I
can't give you a definitive answer on that. What I
can say is, in this incident, it should not have happened.
We have an aviation what's called a Swiss Cheese approach,
(31:13):
wherein if something fails, a backup should catch it, multiple
layers of redundancy. It's been a very long time since
we've had a major aviation incident in the United States,
and that's the reason why it's one of the safest
forms of transportation in the country. But the only way
they do that is by investigating what happens now and
(31:33):
then making recommendations in the future. Again, the NTSP has
made on one hundred thousand aviation investigations. We've issued fifteen
thousand recommendations, over eighty four percent of then accepted. Once
this investigative report comes out, we will be advocating, probably
for years for changes that need to be made, but
(31:55):
will not speculate on what needs to be done until
we have the facts. I'll call on people sorry for orders.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Can you talk about how long you can take to
recover the debris?
Speaker 4 (32:08):
How long you plan to be as sciting.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
How long will it take to recover the debris is
the question from Reuter's recording.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
I think that was three or four together. How long
the debris will take, how long will be on site,
and if we've gotten any information off of the air
traffic control tapes the debris. We are hopeful once the
mapping is done that it will be done and what
I will call quick order. And I can make no
guarantees of that, because first and foremost, we need to
(32:37):
make every effort and to make sure we're recovering every
one of the people that perished in this accident. We'll
have some cranes that'll be coming up, and once that happens,
you'll see a lot more activity and we'll be moving
to that in but I don't want to give you
a definitive time. I would say it will start in earnest,
probably on Sunday, and it will go through next week.
And some of that's contingent up on weather and other things.
(32:58):
Regarding the ATC tapes, We've received a lot of different
information on ATC, and so I'm going to be let people,
I'm just going to preempt it. Off the shelf. Software
programs are not always as accurate as the data we
specifically get from ADSD from the black boxes. All of
(33:19):
that are factors that come into our investigation. So we
will not speculate about ATC tapes that you may have
heard and seen online or snippets. We are getting the
full cooperation that we need to be able to make
an accurate assessment and to make sure what we are
saying is factual and that it will help an aid
(33:41):
in the entire investigation. I've chats on the boss. Is
there anything glaring from the videos that we've all seen
that will tell you that the pilot in the black
hot color outfit man mistake? The question is based on
the videos, have we drawn any conclusions? We have not.
We know that there was a significant incident in which
(34:02):
the two aircraft collided, pretty significant fireball. If you will recall,
even after the first day, we only had maybe one
or two grainy images that were coming out. We're seeing
more and more at this time, so we're still collecting data,
but we are not going to opine until we see
a lot of other things in there. A couple more yes, sir,
(34:25):
you see how critical is it to interview the controller
and the tower and how it's running.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
How critical is you to interview the controller, the air
traffic controller?
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Is the question coming? So the question was how critical
are the air traffic control interviews and basically staffing. So
air traffic control interviews are critical. That's the reason why
there's a process in place that began immediately after the accident.
It was preservation of that evidence. It was immediately taking
(34:57):
down notes, getting logs, all that information. We will go
back and look at any air traffic controller that was
involved in this. We'll go back and look at their
past probably seventy two hours, even two or three weeks.
We'll look at their training, they're hiring everything, what they
probably ate that day, But it is not one point
that tells us everything. It's layered into a lot of
(35:20):
other information that's very critical regarding staffing. The FAA has
had a very robust plan in looking at staffing. Obviously
we'll be looking at not only staffing that day, but
progressively staffing. How many people, what job functions they were doing,
were they being combined were they not? What was the
weather outside? What was the number of landings I recalled
(35:42):
back during COVID one runway was being used. We're only
won that was only one thirty three as traffic came
back started being opened up, so we would look at
changes in traffic patterns, construction at the airport, all of that.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
All that's the NTSB official updating the deadly DC plan crash,
and to speak frankly, there was not a lot of
new information. I think it was one of those press
conferences in which an official describes the process. So if
you're interested in process, you've got a lot there, the
process by which they decode and otherwise ascertain what's in
(36:20):
the black box, the way in which they review communications.
But again no information about what was in those communications.
Just a lot about the process, which is fair. I mean,
it's very early in the investigation. The thing just happened
Wednesday night, it is not even the case that all
(36:41):
those lost souls have been retrieved from the Potomac. That
continues as well. But at the end of his remarks
that NTSB spokesperson, at the end of those remarks, I
feel is some of the you'll answer here. It seems
(37:02):
as though he fairly points to a layered constellation of
things that happened. You know, it was one thing, it
was several things coming together. And even as lay people,
as we look at what things might have happened, you
can figure out certain things. For example, it seems clear
(37:23):
that that black Hawk helicopter was one to two hundred
feet higher than it should have been. Also, the nature
of the communication with the tower, where the tower is communicating,
do you see him? Do you see that the commuter aircraft? Well,
I mean, as Brian suits and I were talking, what
(37:43):
is the that there? You know, do I see what
I mean? There are several aircraft there on that approach.
So you begin to see how in the fog of
it all, metaphorically you lose a little bit of what
might have been the thing to make it happen. But
the last thing, and it was noted here even in
(38:07):
the questioning in the back and forth, and I think
there's going to be a lot made of this. The
air traffic control tower at Reagan National was understaffed on
Wednesday night. I mentioned this to you last hour. When
a passenger plane and a military helicopter collide in mid air,
(38:28):
there generally are two different people involved in both those
instruments of aviation, Meaning there is a control tower person
dedicated to plane traffic passenger plane traffic, and there is
someone dedicated in the same tower to the military helicopter
traffic and all helicopter traffic. Two different people. But at
(38:53):
the time of this accident, one of those people left. Again,
they do it all in very much official speak. So
what they say is the control tower staffing levels were
quote not normal for the time of day and the
amount of traffic over DC. Again, they get more than
(39:16):
one hundred helicopters a day in and around and underneath
arriving and departing flights there in d C at nine
to thirty at night, just to review, the control tower
goes from two to one, goes from a helicopter dedicated
person and an airplane dedicated person to just the one
(39:40):
person handling both chopper traffic and plane traffic. But in
this case, the crash occurred around eight point fifty and
already they were down to the one person handling both
areas of traffic. So as they hunt for answers, you
know this will be one of the things they look at.
And I know that there's a lot being made politically,
(40:02):
but DEI and what was the situation? And that those
are fine questions to ask, if appropriate. But what I'm
getting at is the specifics of this strike, me as
the Blackhawk helicopter operators who were flying at a higher
altitude than agreed upon and likely didn't see this passenger jet,
(40:28):
plus the personnel in the tower down to not the
normal staffing levels to use their verbiage, essentially from two
to one. That's just the beginning. But I suspect those
are two rich areas in which there'll be more investigation.
It's The John Cobalt Show, Mark Thompson sitting in for John.
(40:50):
We're kfi AM six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Hey you've been listening to the John Cobalt Show podcast.
You can always hear the show live on KFIM six
forty from one to four pm every Monday through Friday,
and of course anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app.
Can't. I am six forty. You're listening to the John
Cobel podcast on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Mark Thompson here for John Cobelt today and we're reviewing
some of the details as they become available around this
horrible midair crash in DC. And because of the clear
involvement of the military, and it was a military training
exercise in which this black Hawk helicopter was involved, we
(00:26):
thought we'd bring in Brian Suits, who just knows such
great granular detail about so very much that relates to
the military. And I'm sure you have some takes on
what happened, Hi, Brian.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
It drips on pranular detail. I'm telling you, Mark, I
respect you so much. I check you up there, but
it's here on the phone.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Wow, that is high praise, thank you, thank you. Well,
we had to, you know, we had to put up
the bat beam and get ahold of you today because
there is so much that seems to overlap with the
world that you know so well.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
You know.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Well, here's the thing. I live underneath the approach pattern
for sea tack. So five thousand feet above me are
the seven thirty sevens of a year southwest near Alaska,
I'm about ten miles away from the storied Fort Lewis,
home of a part of the legendary one to sixtieth
(01:21):
aviation Special Operations Aviation. I know some of those dudes,
and they do low level training just below the sea
tax approach pattern, and they make really sure not to
get in there. And I have some la fun facts
for all you military aviation buffs. So that's that's what
a lucky day did for you. Mark. And my dad's
(01:43):
retired to traffic control guy, he's dead. It's Julius Caesar.
But the point is I grew up in an air
traffic in the FAA household.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
All right, well then you know, spill, spill, spill, give
us more.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yet yet good? I got to say, good reaking information.
If people remember Reagan versus the Professional Art Traffic Controllers
Organization PATCO, you remember he fired them, And at that
time my dad had just retired. My dad did twenty
nine years in diamond Hood. That's where he did the
Honolulu Center. He was never in a tower. But no,
(02:19):
I got to say, because I know a couple of
these guys, they all do you know several annual tests
for for night for cross country? Uh, instrument cross country
visual and all that, but nighttime instrumentation is a huge
rating because if they lose that, they lose everything. Those
(02:41):
guys and in d C and they're flying VIPs mainly,
they're not flying tactical people, and they take that dad
serious and so when they're up, they're always training. There's
no such thing as a non training event in the
DC area. You know they're they're training in at night.
It happens every day. At the end of the day,
(03:04):
they take to the sky. They put on nods what
are called night observation devices or night vision. They put
on ods their training period, period final. Every all three
guys on the ur person soldiers on that aircraft pilot,
co pilot and crew chief are are if they don't
have the nods over their eyes, one person always has
(03:24):
them on. So there's that.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well, let me just ask you about that with a
quick follow because we are listening to that lieutenant colonel
and former Blackhawk pilot. We're listening maybe it's been fifteen
minutes ago. Here on Kofi was saying that you can
fly into an area with a lot of city lights,
which Washington certainly has, and it can be hard to
differentiate between the aircraft and street lights, you can literally
(03:48):
just lose. Notwithstanding what you've just said, which is odd
to me. If they've got these night vision capabilities, I
don't understand how they do lose sight of something like
an airliner.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I wouldn't do it, man, I got to tell you
you're lucky to get me on a helicopter. I'm sure
as hell wouldn't do it at night with both the
both those pilots with nods on. But anyway, so here's
number one. When you put night out night vision goggles
nods on, like if you're an infantryman or my case,
out of the cavalry shout. I have hundreds of hours
on nods, right, it's disorienting as hell when you're a
(04:22):
human being under your feet. Thing one and everyone needs
to know this. Put all your ideas of Buffalo Bill
another movie movie night vision goggles number one, You have
no depth perception. Your depth perception disappears and minute you
put them on, just like you're looking at binoculars. Okay,
so now you're flying an aircraft with no depth perception.
(04:46):
All you can do is it enhances light. Night vision
enhances light. It doesn't invent it doesn't pull it out
of it. You know it it enhances the light that exists,
so normal bright white street light will blind you, uh,
and other like you know, you want to go red
light on an airplane, or you want to go infrared,
(05:08):
and even even then like infrared this one time. Now
you notice an army story. I put on night vision
goggles and a guy had cracked an infrared kem light
like it is an infrared rave. He cracked it in
the middle of the day. Didn't know it was. It
was cracked open, and it was it blinded me. I
(05:30):
put on the night vicon goggles. I was a gunner.
I went down in the driver's hat with the vehicle
and I went, what the a F? And when everyone
put them on, they saw what I was saying for.
It's because we're sitting there with an infrared kem light
on and was so bright that close to it that
I mean, that's why you can see him ten miles away,
not one mile away, but ten miles away. So so
(05:52):
people need to know when pilots are on their nods,
they're being tested, they're hopefully the instructor pilot has them
on too. And so when civilian air type of control says,
do you see that plane ahead of you? They don't
know that the pilots are on nods. They don't know
how disorienting that is. And the pilots are looking ahead
(06:13):
and you don't know what light they're looking at. I honestly,
I'm not a helicopter pilot, thank god, but I mean,
I got to say, I think that there's something to
the disorientation that happens between the pilots and the civilian
air type of controllers in the tower. They don't know
that these guys are looking through MVG through nods, and
(06:34):
that they don't know what he means by, you know,
because a civilian airliner you might think it's big. A
great experience in life is getting on a plane at Burbank.
You know, you enter the tail if you're smart, But
I mean, you realize that this seven thirty seven looks
small when it's flying, but it's pretty huge. Well, this thing,
the regional jet, the Bombardier aircraft, it's like a big
(06:56):
Gulf from It's like a gulf Stream six fifty. It's huge.
It seems like, how can you miss that? Well, you're
going two hundred miles an hour. You're supposed to be
underneath him. You're not supposed to enter that approach lane.
You're supposed to have turned around. The instructor pilot probably
should have told you or you should know it, and
(07:17):
you shouldn't be anywhere near him. Because the original report
was the civilian aircraft descended onto the the the Blackhawk. Well,
how how the hell does that happen? I remember thinking, Okay,
that's not what happened, and that's not what happened. When
people see that video, you see a white light. You
see that the black Hawk was running with lights on.
(07:39):
Because it's in civilian airspace. The lights are on. They're
not in a controlled military air space like Yakama, Washington
or Port or Win in California. You don't get to
run with no lights normally. The black Hawks, I've been
terrified in all the lights are the internal lights and
(08:00):
like the cockpit will maybe run red lights on the
instruments so the pilots can read the instruments through red light.
But they don't have navigation lights on that they normally
would over La or whatever. But that that's how that
So these kids are running with navigation lights so that
other people could see them. But you can't expect the
(08:21):
pilots of a seven thirty seven or a regional jet
to you know, they're not a fighter. They can, they can.
They have a really narrow right now. They're focused on
landing minutes away. And now they're told, you know that
there's rotary wing in your area. Okay, I look left,
look for I don't see it because because the guy's
a tiny white dot of light. But so anyway, yeah, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Stop right there, because I think I'll see if you
can stay with us for what we've got to take
a break. But I did want to ask you about
some of what you as you're speaking. Some of what
you're saying really does seem to point to what would
be a clear and I get the impression that there's
a lot of stuff that came together to make this happen.
But it sounds as though those chopper pilots and might
(09:07):
have really been out of where they were supposed to be,
and they may have not realized clearly right that they
were at this altitude. The early reports had them one
hundred feet higher than they should have been. And what
you're saying is, yeah, they're usually on an altitude that
keeps them clear of commuter traffic.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Here, I am. I have helicopters over at tree top
level at one am all the time. There are two
thousand feet below the aircraft. They are the landing at
Tea Tech. They're never higher than that. I mean, I
swear these the one sixtieth night Soccers as they're called,
they're lucky if they're above tree top level. They did
(09:49):
something wrong. Yeah, and that part training.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah exactly. It really sounds like at minimum there was
that going on. We'll finish up with Brian Suits when
we continue. Mark Thompson for John Cobell and KFI AM
six forty live everywhere in the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
You're listening to John Cobelt on demand from KFI AM
six forty.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I was just looking because got Brian Suits here. For
the last couple of minutes, we were talking about this
accident in Washington. Brian, of course, with so much knowledge
of military and the military apparatus, sort of involved in
all of this. And I say that in regard not
just to the Blackhawk, but the fact that Brian was
talking about the night vision goggles that they were wearing
(10:32):
and how that actually is restrictive in a sense. It
was really a fascinating thing to hear you say that, Brian,
that it doesn't necessarily allow you to see at night
with the same kind of understood perception that one might have,
like do you see that over there?
Speaker 4 (10:47):
You were explaining that.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Well, actually, with those night vision goggles, you oftentimes don't
see whatever that is over there necessarily.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, if it's right in front of you and it's huge,
you have no sense of that, you know, I mean
seven forty seven you're going to see the shape, and
the shape is going to tell you more than your
perception of the size because you have no depth perception.
In spite of what people might think of what night vision,
you know, it's a generation three, it's called now it's phenomenal,
but you still if you put two binoculars a monocular
(11:19):
and a left eye a monocular in your right eye,
you have two monoculars and you can kind of adjust
them like a binocular for a little bit of stereo effect.
But it's almost with night vision is an illusion. How
how FA team hoals do it, I don't know, but
they do it by training, by the way.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, right, exactly, And that training speaks very much to
what was going on there at at DC. So it's
interesting you're also mentioning Burbank and Lax in relation to this.
Could you tie that all together?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Okay, So the people don't know this. You live in
the LA area and it's huge. It is a perfect
training ground for a bunch of different elite Army helicopter
born units or helicopter helicopter pilots and Marine Corps units
on on the one. Well, one thing that happens every
it'll happen tonight at sundown. That happens during sun sun up.
(12:17):
If you know, Kinga Pass, the one on one that
is a it's a way to avoid the burbank approach
and departure pattern when it's southbound. So everything from a
ospray full of Marines to one of the weird helicopters
of the Marines have when they come north, they come
up Congo, they come right through Cooanga Pass one hundred
(12:39):
feet over one o one. Very common. And I know
this personally because I used to live on Predonia in
uh in coinca pass which me and what's his name anyway, well,
you know, you know, you know the you know one
celebrity and Hollywood prere is right there. It is made
(13:03):
by Harpo Marx, a great little, great little neighborhood. But
if you hear something briefly, you're about to see an ospre,
You're about to see a sea stallion or a sea
night or a cobra or whatever. And it's going back
to Camp Pendleton or it's coming from Camp Pendleton because
it has to avoid Burbank departure. It has to it
can't fly through the middle of Burbank approach departure. Just
(13:25):
for the same reason that pursuit helicopters that are you know,
doing the Lord's work on my Fox eleven or whatever.
They have to break off the coverage when when an
airplane goes through that one large airport.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Down by.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
You know, down by El Segundo, when they when they
go through the approach departure and they're on four oh five,
they have to break out the cover. Police have to
break it off police helicopters because you can't fly through
a civilian airspace. So clearly does don't don't crash into
the plane.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
But in this case they had and apparently do have
these training exercises going on constantly, either adjacent to or
through these very spaces you're talking about, which are remember.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
The air The tower guy said, go behind it. I
mean he said vision. He didn't say, you know you
was maneuver acts. He said go behind he said visually.
He already said audio wise, go behind it. Acknowledge. And
the guy said, okay, Roger, I see it. And the
shortcoming was, you see what? You see? A light in
(14:33):
front of you? But I'm describing this one at your
flight level, at your altitude and your elevation whatever that is.
But that's your altitude and that's the one controller man
meet you. Do you see the aircraft going from your
left to your right, from south to north right in
(14:54):
front of you? You see you see endless like the
ahead of you. But he but he took the pilots.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Let's see it.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Well, you see what? I don't know what you see?
You see what?
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
And I mean, what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, even as a layperson, I heard that and I thought, wow,
that's way too generic. Do you see that? Do you
see it? Do you see what I mean? It's just
way way too generic. Brian, I knew, yeah, I just
knew you'd be able to shed some light on this,
And thank you. I think there's so much more that
still has to be revealed. Obviously, we're taking this NTSB
press conference in just a few minutes live and we'd
(15:28):
love to be able to talk to you more about
this as those revelations come to pass.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Okay, the Dark Secret Place, remember the Darksecret Place dot com.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
The folks, the Dark Secret Place dot com. Brian Suits,
thank you, my friend. Great to talk to you anytime. Mark, Okay,
we'll speak again. It is the John Covelt Show. We
are waiting for that live press conference. Will take it
from NTSB when they begin it. We're KFI A M
six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 5 (15:59):
You're listening to John Cobel's on demand from KFI AM six.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Forty John Cobelt Show, John Off Today. Mark Thompson sitting in.
We're waiting on an NTSB conference that will that presser
will start. It should start any minute now. We'll take
it live obviously when it does begin, details coming out
in bits and pieces about this Potomac crash, a tragedy
from start to finish, and it reveals a lot of
(16:26):
what we knew, what was talked about in circles around Washington,
issues around the volume of air traffic in and out
of that airport, the proximity of that airport to military
training exercises, when those training exercises went on, what kind
of exercises, what kind of limitations, And there have been
(16:48):
as well, close calls. We've detailed those for you a
bit today and you're going to hear more about them
because this has been, as I say, for easily a
decade a conversation in and around this airport. But the
human tragedy is profound, the loss is profound. And a reporter,
(17:14):
this guy, Walter Harris in Washington, NBC reporter, spoke to
and is in touch with a man who says his
wife texted him just before this crash in DC.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
She texted me that she said, we're landing in twenty minutes.
Speaker 7 (17:33):
That was the last thing Kamad Rosa heard from his wife,
Osra Hussein, and by the time he arrived at Reagan
National Airport less than a half hour later, he realized
something was very wrong.
Speaker 6 (17:42):
So I was waiting and I saw I started seeing
a bunch of EMS vehicles speeding past me like way
too many than normal.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
And two my texts weren't going through.
Speaker 7 (17:54):
Roso watching the massive response from Terminal two as one
hundred the first responders race to the rescue OSRA Whoscein
was one of sixty four people on board American Airlines
Flight fifty three forty two that collided with the military
helicopter as an approached DCA Wednesday night. Raza says she
was in Wichita for work and never made it home.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
It's it's just feels crazy that it happened to us,
to be honest, I mean it's like you see these
things happen in the news. You see them happen in
other countries, and then I show up to the airport
and my wife's not responding, and I look on Twitter
and all.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Right, we're going to go to the news conference now.
Speaker 8 (18:35):
The ntsbman, I'm the board member on scene, and we'll
be briefing today where we're at in the investigation in
regard to the CRJ accident with the Sikorsky helicopter.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
Let me just start with it. As usual, our hearts
go out to all the families of the victims. In fact,
I've just spent the last several hours with them before
we came here, and I apologize that we had to
move this back, but they are one of our primary concerns,
along with making sure we get factual information out they
(19:09):
are having. It's a hard time for them, obviously, and
we want to do everything we can to make sure
they get the most accurate information and factual and has
always been at the core of the NTSB mission. Our
job is to just come out with the probable cause,
but then more importantly make recommendations so that this type
(19:31):
of tragedy never occurs again. So today, I know yesterday
you saw the Chairman, myself and all the board members here.
I just want to let you know they are still
actively involved with this. We're just trying to make sure
we're dividing our conquering. The Chairman and I have had
multiple conversations today. She's helped out a lot and making
(19:52):
sure we're getting the investigative needs we have, and she's
at the command post right now working with some of
our people. I'd like to start by just thinking the
first responders. When this first happened, a unified command was
set up and we had a lot of important people
that came and worked with us. In Virginia, the Fairfax
(20:14):
County Fire and Rescue, Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department,
Arlington County Fire and Rescue, Arlington County Emergency Management, Arlington Police,
Alexandria City Fire, Alexandria Police, Virginia State Police, the NCR
Incident Management Team, the Virginia Department of Emergency Management, the
(20:36):
Virginia Department of Transportation, the Virginia Senator Warner's Office, m
wi's Fire and Rescue Team, m WHAW Police. A special
shout out to every one of them, but m WAW
has been amazing and helping and working with us, and
we're truly appreciative, along with DC Fire and Rescue, just
the extraordinary taking the lead. Prince William in Maryland, the
(21:02):
Montgomery Fire and Rescue, Prince George's Fire and Rescue, Charles
County Fire and Rescue, Baltimore Fire, Baltimore Police, and Arundel
Fire Department, Maryland State Police, Maryland Natural Resource Police, MPD, DCFD.
From the federal side, the US Coast Guard, US Army,
US Air Force, FBI, Secret Service, Customs and Border Patrol,
(21:25):
Park Police, DoD Naval District Washington, American Medical Response, and yes,
the US Department of Labor. All of those have been
amazing partners and are one of the reasons why that
this investigation continues to progress the way we wanted to.
As I said, we did family briefings last night and
today there are over one hundred family members that are
(21:47):
now in the area receiving briefings and as part of
the legislative requirement receiving family assistance, they have been briefed
by the medical examiner, the fire Chief, intus B Chairman,
and myself along with the Family Assistant unit from PSA Airlines.
In regard to NTSB staff, all staff are now on
(22:11):
sen that have men requested and I want to point
out one specific staff member because we're doing a joint
NTSB and DoD investigation, the NTSB actually has a Blackhawks
certified pilot on staff on our personal staff based out
of Alaska. Once we realize the dynamics and the intricacies
(22:34):
of the Blackhawk, we have brought that member in. They
are on scene now providing direct technical assistance to the NTSB.
It does not mean that the dd is not working
and helping with us, but in order to maintain our independence,
we have our own black Hawks certified pilot in the
Working Group for Helicopters regarding salvage at this point. The
(22:57):
Navy Supervisor of Salvage is conducting salvage operations. At the
current time, barges are en route from Virginia Beach and
we anticipate them to be on scene early tomorrow morning.
After their arrival, they will be secured, located, and then
(23:17):
significant salvage operations will continue. They are ongoing right now,
but this will be the main lifting. It's being done
in conjunction with the DC Medical Examiner's Office in order
to make sure simultaneously that any additional victims are recovered
and immediately turned over to them for identification and returned
(23:40):
to their families. SOUPS Out, which is the supervisor of salvage,
is also conducting a debris mapping right now. This will
help in our post accident analysis of how the machine
actually reacted to the incident. It also help us with
understanding some of the airworthiness and crashworthiness and human factors.
(24:06):
We have right now two distinct debris fields. One that
houses the Sekorski, which is in comparison to the CRJ
a little bit smaller to the CRJ is in another
distinct area and we consider a little bit larger the
good news is based upon the initial mapping. While there
(24:28):
are some small aspects of that debris field, there are
large chunks that will be easily recoverable and it will
aid in the investigation when we bring it into the
secured facility that will be located here on m Y.
That will help us in the close proximity to be
able to review and evaluate. Yesterday we outline for you
(24:51):
a number of groups that have been stood up. A
few of them in particular, I want to call out,
although every one of them have been working very hard
for your edification. The ATC group air Traffic Control has
been conducting interviews today, they're ongoing tonight, that will be
ongoing for probably the next few days. We've had full
(25:14):
cooperation in getting the witnesses that we need to gain
those interviews. We will then take that information and match
it with other data that we're seating, and if necessary,
conduct following interviews at a later time. Our Operations group
now has on site an exemplar airplane similar to the
(25:34):
CRJ seven hundred. It's on a hard stand here at
n W. They will use that to evaluate cockpit configuration, seating,
things like that. So whenever the salvage comes up, we're
able to use an exemplar aircraft to match it against
examples such as where maybe switches are navigational AIDS electronics.
(25:56):
It is almost the exact same configuration as the incident aircraft.
I want to clarify one thing. There's been a lot
of questions in discussion regarding manifest. Let me make this
very clear. The NTSB will not and has not released
(26:17):
a manifest. We have not in our history, not in
our past, we will not be in this accident. In fact,
there's specific congressional language that whenever it is in our possession,
it is not available through the Freedom of Information Act.
It will not be included in our report. We will
not be putting any names of any of the victims.
(26:41):
Any release of that information will come from other individuals
or groups. Regarding the recorders, as many of you saw
last night, we recovered from the CRJ two separate recorders.
One was a fd FR that is a flight data
(27:07):
recorder fifty that was actually in what we consider good condition.
As part of that process, it was soaked into alcohol overnight.
It was then open today and we have a high
level of confidence that we will be able to get
(27:28):
a full download in the very near future. Now, once
we do have that download, we will not be releasing
immediately the information regarding it. We will have to go
through correct the data sets, make sure they're synchronized. This
has approximately rough up to possibly two thousand data points
(27:51):
is it reference, So all of that has to be
synchronized and looked at. It's a very laborious practice, takes
a lot of time. Regarding the crj's Cockpit Voice recorder,
once it was recovered and opened, we found that it
had water intrusion. That is not uncommon. It is not
(28:14):
an unusual event for us to receive a recorder with
water intrusion. We deal with that all the time. Our
recorder's division is one of the best in the country,
in the world. Actually, we have a quarter sent everywhere.
So there's a step. The CVR was soaked overnight in
ionized water, at which point the team put the CVR
(28:38):
into a vacuum oven in order to astract moisture. They
are still checking electrical connections to determine if they're ready
to try a download. It is one step of many
steps that we will take in order to get that data.
But we have a very high level of confidence that
we will have it. We just have to work through
(28:58):
a number of steps. Lastly, on recorders, the Sikorski, where
the CRJ has two separate recorders, the Sikorski has a
combined cockpit voice recorder and digital flight data recorder. It's
in one box. I can report to you now we
(29:20):
have recovered the Sikorski black Box. It is safely at
the NTSP headquarters. It will begin in evaluation, just as
the other two recorders did last night, to determine when
and how to take action. I can't tell you from
a visual inspection, we saw no exterior damage that would
(29:43):
indicate that it was compromised at this time, so we
have a high level of confidence that we will be
able to have a full extraction from that as well.
Those are some of the significant updates we have right now.
Obviously we'll be doing some more in the essence of
time and making sure our team gets back.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
You're listening to John Cobels on demand from KFI A
M sixty.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
I think we're gonna be able to take maybe four
or five questions. I'll call on you and I'll repeat it,
so we'll try to play that game a little bit.
Please right here, your name and outlook. Please selling someone
that they want to be heroes. All of these hands
(30:28):
and sales that you said, we absolutely should be reviewing used.
Speaker 7 (30:34):
By spos Helper plus days a complex makes of traffic.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
You see rise He stays, You're listening to an NTSB
live press conference with details of the crash that's being investigated.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
So the question for those watching, is it this time
now for us to possibly deconflict or change some of
the airspace where military aircraft operate with commercial aircraft. I
can't give you a definitive answer on that. What I
can say is, in this incident, it should not have happened.
We have an aviation what's called a Swiss Cheese approach,
(31:13):
wherein if something fails, a backup should catch it, multiple
layers of redundancy. It's been a very long time since
we've had a major aviation incident in the United States,
and that's the reason why it's one of the safest
forms of transportation in the country. But the only way
they do that is by investigating what happens now and
(31:33):
then making recommendations in the future. Again, the NTSP has
made on one hundred thousand aviation investigations. We've issued fifteen
thousand recommendations, over eighty four percent of then accepted. Once
this investigative report comes out, we will be advocating, probably
for years for changes that need to be made, but
(31:55):
will not speculate on what needs to be done until
we have the facts. I'll call on people sorry for orders.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Can you talk about how long you can take to
recover the debris?
Speaker 4 (32:08):
How long you plan to be as sciting.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
How long will it take to recover the debris is
the question from Reuter's recording.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
I think that was three or four together. How long
the debris will take, how long will be on site,
and if we've gotten any information off of the air
traffic control tapes the debris. We are hopeful once the
mapping is done that it will be done and what
I will call quick order. And I can make no
guarantees of that, because first and foremost, we need to
(32:37):
make every effort and to make sure we're recovering every
one of the people that perished in this accident. We'll
have some cranes that'll be coming up, and once that happens,
you'll see a lot more activity and we'll be moving
to that in but I don't want to give you
a definitive time. I would say it will start in earnest,
probably on Sunday, and it will go through next week.
And some of that's contingent up on weather and other things.
(32:58):
Regarding the ATC tapes, We've received a lot of different
information on ATC, and so I'm going to be let people,
I'm just going to preempt it. Off the shelf. Software
programs are not always as accurate as the data we
specifically get from ADSD from the black boxes. All of
(33:19):
that are factors that come into our investigation. So we
will not speculate about ATC tapes that you may have
heard and seen online or snippets. We are getting the
full cooperation that we need to be able to make
an accurate assessment and to make sure what we are
saying is factual and that it will help an aid
(33:41):
in the entire investigation. I've chats on the boss. Is
there anything glaring from the videos that we've all seen
that will tell you that the pilot in the black
hot color outfit man mistake? The question is based on
the videos, have we drawn any conclusions? We have not.
We know that there was a significant incident in which
(34:02):
the two aircraft collided, pretty significant fireball. If you will recall,
even after the first day, we only had maybe one
or two grainy images that were coming out. We're seeing
more and more at this time, so we're still collecting data,
but we are not going to opine until we see
a lot of other things in there. A couple more yes, sir,
(34:25):
you see how critical is it to interview the controller
and the tower and how it's running.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
How critical is you to interview the controller, the air
traffic controller?
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Is the question coming? So the question was how critical
are the air traffic control interviews and basically staffing. So
air traffic control interviews are critical. That's the reason why
there's a process in place that began immediately after the accident.
It was preservation of that evidence. It was immediately taking
(34:57):
down notes, getting logs, all that information. We will go
back and look at any air traffic controller that was
involved in this. We'll go back and look at their
past probably seventy two hours, even two or three weeks.
We'll look at their training, they're hiring everything, what they
probably ate that day, But it is not one point
that tells us everything. It's layered into a lot of
(35:20):
other information that's very critical regarding staffing. The FAA has
had a very robust plan in looking at staffing. Obviously
we'll be looking at not only staffing that day, but
progressively staffing. How many people, what job functions they were doing,
were they being combined were they not? What was the
weather outside? What was the number of landings I recalled
(35:42):
back during COVID one runway was being used. We're only
won that was only one thirty three as traffic came
back started being opened up, so we would look at
changes in traffic patterns, construction at the airport, all of that.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
All that's the NTSB official updating the deadly DC plan crash,
and to speak frankly, there was not a lot of
new information. I think it was one of those press
conferences in which an official describes the process. So if
you're interested in process, you've got a lot there, the
process by which they decode and otherwise ascertain what's in
(36:20):
the black box, the way in which they review communications.
But again no information about what was in those communications.
Just a lot about the process, which is fair. I mean,
it's very early in the investigation. The thing just happened
Wednesday night, it is not even the case that all
(36:41):
those lost souls have been retrieved from the Potomac. That
continues as well. But at the end of his remarks
that NTSB spokesperson, at the end of those remarks, I
feel is some of the you'll answer here. It seems
(37:02):
as though he fairly points to a layered constellation of
things that happened. You know, it was one thing, it
was several things coming together. And even as lay people,
as we look at what things might have happened, you
can figure out certain things. For example, it seems clear
(37:23):
that that black Hawk helicopter was one to two hundred
feet higher than it should have been. Also, the nature
of the communication with the tower, where the tower is communicating,
do you see him? Do you see that the commuter aircraft? Well,
I mean, as Brian suits and I were talking, what
(37:43):
is the that there? You know, do I see what
I mean? There are several aircraft there on that approach.
So you begin to see how in the fog of
it all, metaphorically you lose a little bit of what
might have been the thing to make it happen. But
the last thing, and it was noted here even in
(38:07):
the questioning in the back and forth, and I think
there's going to be a lot made of this. The
air traffic control tower at Reagan National was understaffed on
Wednesday night. I mentioned this to you last hour. When
a passenger plane and a military helicopter collide in mid air,
(38:28):
there generally are two different people involved in both those
instruments of aviation, Meaning there is a control tower person
dedicated to plane traffic passenger plane traffic, and there is
someone dedicated in the same tower to the military helicopter
traffic and all helicopter traffic. Two different people. But at
(38:53):
the time of this accident, one of those people left. Again,
they do it all in very much official speak. So
what they say is the control tower staffing levels were
quote not normal for the time of day and the
amount of traffic over DC. Again, they get more than
(39:16):
one hundred helicopters a day in and around and underneath
arriving and departing flights there in d C at nine
to thirty at night, just to review, the control tower
goes from two to one, goes from a helicopter dedicated
person and an airplane dedicated person to just the one
(39:40):
person handling both chopper traffic and plane traffic. But in
this case, the crash occurred around eight point fifty and
already they were down to the one person handling both
areas of traffic. So as they hunt for answers, you
know this will be one of the things they look at.
And I know that there's a lot being made politically,
(40:02):
but DEI and what was the situation? And that those
are fine questions to ask, if appropriate. But what I'm
getting at is the specifics of this strike, me as
the Blackhawk helicopter operators who were flying at a higher
altitude than agreed upon and likely didn't see this passenger jet,
(40:28):
plus the personnel in the tower down to not the
normal staffing levels to use their verbiage, essentially from two
to one. That's just the beginning. But I suspect those
are two rich areas in which there'll be more investigation.
It's The John Cobalt Show, Mark Thompson sitting in for John.
(40:50):
We're kfi AM six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Hey you've been listening to the John Cobalt Show podcast.
You can always hear the show live on KFIM six
forty from one to four pm every Monday through Friday,
and of course anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app.
The John Kobylt Show News
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John Kobylt
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