June 12, 2023 • 37 mins
Jonathan Epstein comes on the show to talk about the death of the Unabomber as Epstein is the son of one of the Unabomber’s victims. More on the Unabomber. Ireland wants to kill a bunch of cows to help meet climate goals in the country. The fake meat market has collapsed.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I am six forty.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
You're listening to the John and Ken Show on demand
on the iHeartRadio app. We're live in the radio from
one until four and after four o'clock.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
What'd you miss? High?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
If you miss something, you go to the podcast Johnny
Canon demand on the iHeart app.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
All right, well, we're gonna get right into it because
we have a special interview. Over the weekend, news came
out that the unibomber is dead. Remember that story. Between
nineteen seventy eight and nineteen ninety five, someone was mailing
bombs to people around the country. When they finally caught
up with them, he was identified as Ted Kaczinski, the
(00:38):
man who lived in a sparse cabin in Montana, and
of course the motivation was allegedly his hatred of the
modern world and technology. Three people were killed, twenty three
others were wounded. He was serving eight life sentences for
these bombs. He died, and then we learned about a
day later that suicide eighty one years old. At first
(01:00):
I thought it might be natural causes, because they had
transferred him from a federal prison in Colorado to like
a medical federal medical facility, and I thought maybe because
he was going downhill. But they're now saying he killed himself.
He had late stage cancer. Okay, well maybe that's why
he killed himself.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
And he sent the bombs to either university professors or
airline executives, which.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
And I just learned, hence the name unibomber. That's right
for university airlines.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, so we're going to talk now with Jonathan Epstein.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yes, we're gonna talk with Jonathan Epstein. His father was
one of the victims. His father did survive the bombing,
but it was atrocious. His father was doctor Charles Epstein,
University of California at San Francisco, geneticist.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
All right, let's get Jonathan Epstein on. Jonathan, thanks for
coming on with.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Us, Thanks for having me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
One of the things I just read in the story
about you, Jonathan, is you were hoping that that was
your last interview we're going to do about this, but
you agreed to come on our show. We appreciate that.
Thank you for doing that.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah, absolutely, that statement was a little premature.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Perhaps, Yeah, well, I mean there's been interest in this
for almost thirty years now, ever since the world became
aware of the unibomber, and actually his bombings go back
wide about forty five years, so you've been living with this,
you know, a big percentage of your life. Did you
have a particular reaction when you heard he was dead?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah, I mean, I guess you know, I was initially
felt glad about the news. It's not great when anyone
dies in general, but you know, my hope was and
what prompted my statement about interviews is that we brought
we'd finally be able to put this chapter of our
lives to a close. It's you know, it's been a while,
(02:51):
it's been thirty years. My father was the age I
am now when this happens.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah, let's talk about that. And your father, of course
has since passed away, but he did survive this bombing.
What did he do at UCSF?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
So my father was head of human genetics. He started
out his career bringing healthcare out to rural areas, in
particular the NEOs andesis procedure, which was new at the time,
but he ended up developing a specialty in down syndrome
(03:25):
and really trying to understand how having an extra chromosome
manifested the way it did, and as part of that,
instituted the first people that did genetic counseling who helped
parents that had or we would potentially have children that
had you not the normal set of chromosomes, and helped
(03:48):
them get through that experience.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
It sounds like it was doing remarkable research. The unibomber
picking out your father, I mean it puzzles you too.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Right, Yeah, I think you know he was He was mentioned,
and my father was, you know, used a lot as
a source, and so he was quoted in a New
York Times story. I'm not sure what that story it was.
It might have been about genetic engineering, which was something
very new that he had nothing to do with this.
So we always felt that, you know, since he hadn't
(04:23):
done his homework, if he was trying to achieve the
objectives he had stated in his manifesto, he he picked
a guy that was focused on doing good with science
and also bringing the benefits of science and technology to
you know, the full population, not just the elites.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
What happened to your dad the day he got this bomb?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah, so he was alone at home. I think my
sister had brought in the package and he opened it
up and it blew up. The bomb was designed to maime,
not kill, for which we're you know, fortunate relatively. I
guess he had thick glasses on, so it probably saved
his eyesight. He lost fingers, he had a lot of
(05:09):
internal injuries, essentially opened it. It kind of waste level
he and we know this by backing the blood trail.
He stumbled out of the kitchen, but it went the
wrong way and then went out of the front door.
The house fell down in our driveway, and the neighbors
had heard the blast, and they came and.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Did he have the Did he have long term health
problems because of the blast outside of the missing fingers, I.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Think, well, he lost some of his hearing. He had
a lot of pain from the internal injuries over time,
but I do feel that over and you know, it
took years to get his hands back in shape. But
you know, by the end of his life, I think
he was you know, other than missing some hearing and
(06:00):
some fingers, which isn't great when you're a cellist. You know,
he was able to with a pullette.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Now were you were you and your family aware of
the unibomber, I mean, the attack on your father happened
a bit late in his bombing history. Nineteen ninety three
and he was arrested a couple of years later. Were
you were you aware of him being out there?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I was not. I never heard of the guy before,
and my father was the first in what became the
new string of bombing, so it really had no historical context.
Had never heard of that name until the FBI came
calling to the house and included us in that this might.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Be the Yeah, he took some time off, Kazinski did
from doing this, as I recall, and then there was
a string of them later before they caught up and
arrested him.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Did you read his manifesto because that that consumed the
whole nation when it was published and published in New
York Times, I think, and that's what led to his chature.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah, he had a distinctive writing style, to say the least.
I read some of it. I have not read the
full manifesto.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
How did your father feel about, you know, catching Kazinsky
and the punishment and all of that.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Uh. I never really got my father's viewpoint on it.
Obviously they were glad he caught him caught, because then
they caught Kazinsky. My mother was, you know, very obviously
and rightfully upset and angry about the whole thing, and
she was upset that he twedd out. She wanted him
(07:40):
to be confronted in court by you know, the results
of his actions and felt the tech fee each way
out as she may have just done so by committing suicide.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yeah, we appreciate you talking about your dad. I see
here also in the story we're looking at that you
don't want your father to be remembered as a uni
i'm or victim. You want to be remembered for what
he did for science.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah, there was always this kind of dual edge sword.
I think, you know, it was hard for him not
to be identified in that way because he was a
victim and it was a pretty small group of people
and he was fortunate to survive. But my father was
very you know, one of the top geneticis of the country.
He went on to be the initial scientific advisor and
(08:26):
later the chairman of the Layer Trustees for the Buck Institute,
which is a leading institute focused on age research or
aging research and why by getting old does what it
does to us because there was a connection between down
syndrome and aging, and so, yeah, he was very accomplished.
He had more than five hundred scientific papers to his name,
(08:48):
and you know, ultimately that in the books he wrote
on medicine that we hope will be his legacy, and.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
He was he able to continue a lot of his
work after the bombing.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
He did after a while, after you know a couple
of years of recuperating, he went back to his lab
and he actually was able to play the cello again,
you know, on a personal life basis. They hit special
bows for him that he could hold despite his missing appendages.
But yeah, he went full long into research and if anything,
(09:22):
you know, he when this happened, he was fifty nine
my age, and was that a point in his career
where he's you know, kind of wondering, Hey, what's this
all been for? When the you know, the one that's
silver lining that's even a real thing in this case
of the incident, was that he got thousands of letters
from people whose lives he had positively impacted by his
(09:45):
work in genetics and genetic counseling. And I think that
shield him to do you know, another ten years.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And yeah, and most people never get that, nothing even
close to it. Well, listen, thank you very much for
coming on with us and talking about your father and
talking about that terrible time. People shouldn't forget, you know,
the victims in these cases. Jonathan Epstein, he's the son
of the UC San Francisco geneticist, doctor Charles Epstein, one
(10:13):
of the unibomber victims. He survived the mail bomb that exploded.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Just a geneticist who was doing great work on down syndrome.
And that's why the wild crazy guy Kazinski sometimes didn't
Obviously what he was doing was wild and crazy, but
even picking some of his victims just seemed really remarkably weird.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
You know, there's a there's a TV reporter quoted in
a story covered the court case at the time, and
he would look at us sitting there and nod and smile,
almost like we were going to have coffee.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
With him that day. He was just, you know, he
was extremely mentally ill with this bizarre obsession. We got
a little bit more coming up next on Kazinski. He
was at one one time the sort of a professor
at UC Berkeley, and his students, most of them didn't
remember him because he didn't like to talk to people. Obviously,
(11:09):
he hated humanity. So we'll talk a little bit more
coming up. Johnny KENKFI AM six forty live everywhere the
iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
You're listening to John and Ken on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
We're on the radio one till four after four o'clock.
What'd you miss?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Go to the iHeart app for the John and Kent
podcast and you know one ads to the other.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
You do the radio show. Whatever you missed, you do
the podcast?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
All right?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Well, the unibomber is dead. He apparently killed himself in
a federal medical type prison back east at the age
of eighty one. John said, what he had late stage
cancer of some kind. Yeah. Ted Kaczynski came from Chicago,
but he does have ties to the West Coast. It
was obviously a math whiz, and he got a scholarship
at Harvard. At sixteen, he went to Harvard and then
(11:58):
from there he moved to the University of Michigan for
a advanced degree in math, and then in nineteen sixty
two he eventually landed as an assistant math professor at
you see, Berkeley. He was just twenty five years old
and on a tenure track already. Now you had mentioned
earlier that one of the reasons they were able to
(12:19):
nab the unibomber ted Kazinski is because the New York
Times published his manifesto. It was his brother, David Kazinski,
who recognized the work of his own brother and basically
turned him in, And that's how they tracked ted Kaczinski
down and arrested him. Back then, there's a few memories
that people came up with, But when he was a
(12:42):
math professor at you see, Berkeley, a lot of people
could not remember him because he was antisocial. He didn't
really want to relate to people or to anyone else.
In fact, the guy that ran to the department at
the time had no recollection of Kazinsky being a professor there.
He was just very withdrawn. He lived in a cottage
behind a main residence in a quite residential neighborhood and
(13:04):
pretty much kept to himself. Even students complained he would
not answer questions, just read out of the textbook. Imagine
a profession that doesn't answer questions. And the ideas for
you know, students to be very inquisitive and to really
ask you a bunch of questions to further their learning.
It's like I didn't want to answer a question. Now
that I've had three sons go through college. You have
(13:24):
no idea how many freaks are college professors. I'm like,
like out and out weirdos.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
And because I've seen some videos of them teaching, I've
heard the stories, and these are a lot of maladjusted
social outcasts who really could not exist in the real world.
But they have their one little genius niche that they
are obsessed with and they can put pontificate on. But
(13:53):
now that that whole world is scary, it really is,
and Kazinski is one of the scary ones. The thing
that was most fascinating. And I remember I remember reading
a book on Kazinsky and this popped out in one
of the news stories this weekend.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
When he was.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I guess at Harvard, he was part of a psychological
experiment run by a professor, Henry Murray. Murray was later
accused of running what amounted to a cruel human experiment
on young adults. His goal was to subject them to
extreme stress to see how people responded to trauma. So
(14:33):
Kazinsky spent two hundred hours in the experiment absorbing all
this verbal abuse. The verbal abuse focused on each subject's
weaknesses and triggers, and then you'd have to watch yourself
being berated than he's been two hundred hours. I don't
know if that had any effect on his behavior, gave
(14:55):
him some kind of a breakdown. I mean, I mean,
there's a great example who the hell would think of
and then and then carry it out.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
He eventually leaves Berkeley and he moves back home with
his parents for a while in Illinois. But as we
now know, he ended up in a cabin in Montana,
and that's where they caught him. In nineteen ninety six.
He struck California several times with bombs. In fact, they
did think he had some kind of ties to UC
Berkeley because there were two bombs detonated in a place
(15:26):
called Corey Hall at Berkeley, the only location the un
bomber hit twice, and one of them was an electrical
engineering professor who in nineteen eighty two picked up an
item looked like a tool in the brake room. It
was a pipe bomb. He got wounded in the face
with shrapnel. He did recover, and then then May of
eighty five, a graduate student went to open a package
(15:46):
left in the computer lab that caused severe damage to
the man's hand and arm. So turing nineteen seventy eight
nineteen ninety five, Kazinski targeted California four times, twice at
Corey Hall and twice in Sacramento, killing a computer store
owner and a timber industry lobbyist. You can really see
it was really all over the place with his targets
(16:07):
a computer store owner. I mean really not that any
of this is right, but it's like the bizarre madness
that overtook him.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah. He lived in a cabin. It was ten feet
by fourteen feet, flywood and tar paper, right, yeah, filled
with journals, a diary written in code, explosive ingredients to bombs.
And he hated that people thought he was mentally ill,
and he refused to let his lawyers defend him with
(16:35):
an insanity defense. He eventually pleaded guilty rather than lead insanity.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Because with his philosophical take on what was happening to
the world, he's not insane, we are.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, he thought he was right. He thought technology was
destroying the world yeap, and destroying humanity.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
There was another story I read. He was corresponding with
a man who wrote books. They were travel books or something,
but he asked a lot of questions about where can
he find the most remote place. You know, ultimately that's
what he want. It wasn't didn't His brother also live
like in a ditch for a while, a bunker. He lived, yes,
underground in a bunker with a storm door as his roof,
(17:15):
and he would pop open the storm door to to
climb out. And he was living there at the same
time that his brother is living in a cabin in Montana, Antana.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, so ah, that's score one for gen X and
running in the family Polish immigrant parents. The answer was
three three people picked the unibomber to die. In the
John and Ken twenty twenty three Goupoles people, about three
people did remember that he was out there and he
could die this year, and he did more. Coming up
Johnny Ken KFI AM six forty Live Everywhere the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
You're listening to John and Ken on demand from KFI
AM sixty.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Well tonight, Fox News is skilled to air it's entirety
the interview that Sean Hannity did with Dippity Too. I've
decided this is another tactic of Gavin Newsom's along with
the whole mystery of whether or not he's running for president.
We've been through that before. But he wants to be
the one that's different on his side of the party
of the Isle. He wants to challenge. It's cool that
(18:20):
he goes on Twitter and picks on Ron DeSantis in Florida.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, he's not spending much time on California's disaster, is he.
I mean, he's like Garcetti. Garceetti, he's a lame duck
don after the first term.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, I know. He just got re elected though, so
what he Dude, he's done being governor of California. There's
bigger things ahead. Yeah, like Garcetti, there's not. But yeah,
i'd be funny if Newsom ends up with some ambassador nomination. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
The thing.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
The thing is, he's he's he's he's posturing. He is
just bellowing. But there's not a lot of content, and
it's it's easy to pop his balloon because he's not
a good debater at all. He's not good at defending himself.
A lot of this is indefensible what he has in California.
(19:11):
He just likes to shout slogans. He likes to shout
like some aggressive attack and generally run and hide.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
It's easy to do that on Twitter. We could all
do that.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
But if you really have a solid a solid record
of accomplishment and a solid set of beliefs that are
that are correct, you wouldn't you wouldn't behave the way
he behaves.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Well, we'll be at the Newsom is maybe running for
President desk at two oh five. They did release some
preview clips to try to generate excitement for the full
airing of the interview. It was recorded over the weekend,
I think in Sacramento, so we'll play some of them.
They deal with Biden's mental capacity and Newsom's relationship with Trump,
(19:51):
and then the whole Ron DeSantis and the migrant flight thing.
Will get to that after the news at two o'clock.
There should be some good stuff in there now. John
admitt this story on Friday, so we did some digging
over the weekend, and yes it is real. Whether or
not it's carried out is still uncertain. But there is
a plan in Ireland to cut back on two hundred
(20:12):
thousand cows two hundred thousand cows to help them meet
their climate coals. There is an obsession among these religious
fanatics with the farts of cows, with the methane that
comes out of cows, you know, we all blow out
a little methane every day. It's just a natural byproduct
(20:36):
of the digestive system in mammal in mammals, But because camels, camels,
cows live outdoors and they eat all day, they pass
gas all day, and they belch and they belch. Don't
think it.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Cow burps, cow burps, cow farts. All the gases coming
out of the cow, they claim. And I don't even
believe this. I've decided that I believe almost nothing anymore.
The idea that the cows are a big driver of
their climate war. You know, their global warming obsession is
(21:11):
getting a little nuts. They'd like to turn the world
vegan now easy there, No, they really would.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
And that's an important distinction because that includes dairy. In fact,
I remember growing up and hearing that people loved Irish butter.
They put the apparently it's become very good in the
last to ten years, the butter from Ireland. Do you
ever see the products in stores? Yes, So that's so
it's not just about eating the meat. It's about the
dairy products too.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
They want the cows not to exist, but are in
ice cream, you know, You know, all these cows were
conceived for the purposes of food, right, so they want
them not to exist and because right they can't exist
because if they did, they keep farting. Correct, I mean
they have to eat what they eat. Well, you can't
(22:02):
give them a diet that wouldn't lead to farting and methane.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
This this comes from the Irish Agriculture Minister fact on
I'm looking at agweb dot com for the latest on this.
His name is Charlie mcconnoague and he said that they're
looking into ways to reduce messane emissions, including the two
hundred thousand cows over the next three years. Now this
would not be mandatory, it will be voluntary. They're actually
(22:29):
calling it a retirement exit scheme for aging farmers. Okay,
but what happens when now the farmer gets to retire
but the cow retires a different way.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
Yeah, that's really there.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
But what happens when they don't meet their goals? Ah see,
this is incrementalism, trust me. What they want is to
eliminate the dairy and meat cow species. That's what they
want to do.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Why would the Agricultural Minister though in Ireland want to
do that because that's kind of what he's probably been
tied up in all his.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Life because he's a progressive koop is there. I don't
know anything about him, but well, if he's behind this,
he is. His His work is self explanatory. If you're
trying to call cows because you think cows in Ireland
have something to do with your global warming, by definition,
you're a lunatic.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Well here's where it came from. The European Green Deal.
Twenty seven countries who signed on agreed to reduce greenhouse
gas emissions by at least fifty five percent by twenty thirty,
which isn't that far away. So I guess somebody in
Ireland said, how are we going to do this? Well,
we've got a lot of ag so maybe our way
of doing this versus people in cars?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
The premise is stupid. Fifty five percent by twenty thirty.
Why that percentage? Why that year? Why do you want
to change people's life? How much is European cows adding
to global warming?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Oh, there's no zero practice term zero, So we're only
talking about culling the herd ten percent a year.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Okay, that's gonna have no effect on the climate. This
is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
This is like religious rituals where you watch weird little
tribes go through strange little rituals. Right, They wear strange clothes,
they wear strange things on their heads, they chant weird prayers,
they go through weird dances, and and you know, they
march around their churches and temples whatever, and the whole
(24:29):
thing really looks ludicrous. If you're not in the cult,
all things just absurd. What are you doing? What's the
point of this? What effect is this having on anybody? Nothing?
There's no effect. And that's what this is. And I'm
telling you it is. One of the defining things about
humanity in this era is that old fashioned organized church,
(24:51):
which is a lot of it's pretty nuts to begin with,
is fading away. But because human beings need to believe
in something, they need to have, like some sort of
spiritual order to their life, they are now worshiping the planet.
And so the way the way old.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Religions wanted to honor God with their strange rituals, now
we are honoring the planet with our strange rituals. It's
it's exactly the same type of behavior, it's just aimed
in a different direction. Rather than God sitting in another
dimension somewhere or aiming it at the upper atmosphere.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
So they claim that the agricultural sector of Ireland accounts
for thirty eight percent of that nation's greenhouse gas emissions.
And I don't know who does this measurement. These numbers
are true, and it's the methane. It's also nitrous oxide
from the use of nitrogen fertilizer and manure management. As
part of this methane gas from livestock contributes to a
major portion of the world greenhouse gases. Methane supposedly accounts
(25:50):
for forty four percent of total life spots. But that's
how you grow food, is with the fertilizer. Well, now
you back to where you started. They don't want you
to eat that food. They don't want you to be alive,
but they no seriously alive.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
I'm alive, and well, thank.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
You very much, very noisy. Now PTA agrees with that.
Peta says that everyone should start taking personal responsibility by
saving the planet by going vegan. That's the that's Pita though,
and they're very upset with this plant. Although there's a
woman from the Green Party or in Ireland says, well,
what we're really talking about is dairy farmers not restocking.
In other words, they won't add cows at the same
(26:28):
level they were before. So the cows will be retired
and they won't die, but you don't add new ones.
So that's how the color. But it drives up the
price of meat. Oh, people still want the meat and
want the milk right in the butter. And then and
then people can't afford it.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
So then they have alternatives or they eat less.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
There are no alternatives. There are no there are. There
are avocados and father.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
Beans, carbonzo beans. There's plenty to eat, that's right. I mean, look,
if you want it bad enough, then you're going to
pay the higher price.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Why should meat eaters be punished with this manipulation?
Speaker 5 (27:09):
I don't have an answer for that. Well, I don't
have one that I want to stay.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
You jumped in, I gave you the floor, and.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
I'm taking the fifth.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Okay, all right, must be something awfully rude. All right,
when we come back the other side of this, the
attempt at getting people to eat meat alternatives. You won't
believe how much this is colossally collapsed. For talking about
some of the purveyors like Beyond Meat, We'll tell you
that story coming up. John and Ken KFI AM six forty.
(27:41):
We're live everywhere the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
You're listening to John and Ken on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I AM six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, we're on from one to four and if you
miss anything, you can pick it up check out the
on demand podcast at caf i am six forty dot
com or the iHeartRadio app. And leading off the two
o'clock hour, we'll drag out the one of the latest
desks we have. Gavin Newsom is running for president, is
maybe running for president, or is not running for president?
Take your pick. He made a big appearance sitting down
(28:19):
with the enemy. I guess Sean Hannity of Fox News
in Depth interview so brave, so courageous. Yeah, he wants
to show you. He'll walk right into the lions Dan
and he'll take him on. John, Right, we got to
organize what does it say in this clip we have
in the desk, but.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
From the bottom up, not that's top down, because Sean
Hannity is so frightening.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
See if he uses any what will you have? Are clips?
They're just short clips. Yeah, The whole interview runs tonight
and we'll probably have more tomorrow to choose from. But
we do have a few about Biden. We have one
about Biden. We have one about and we mentioned this
a few weeks ago. Newsome likes to brag about how
great a relationship he had with Trump when Trump was president.
(29:00):
And then the last one is about, of course the
migrant flights by Florida Governor Ron Deasan. Maybe he also
God Times also did a story on that over the weekend,
which is worth talking about two next hour. Maybe ego
maniacs just have a natural affinity for each other. That
could be Trump and Newsome. Man, Yeah, I think well,
like you said, they both wanted something right, you know,
(29:20):
it was actually Newsome wanted money from the federal government.
It was over the fires when Trump came out here
a few years back, so they both could look good
to use each other. We were talking in the last
segment about a plan in Ireland to cut back on
the dairy cow population in that nation to do something
about climate change. Four years ago. It was a company
(29:45):
called Beyond Meat, Remember the two biggies Beyond Meat and Impossible.
I actually saw commercially yesterday for impossible. I hadn't seen
one in years. I was like, wow, they're trying to
make a comeback. It was just wild interest in these
two meat alternative producers. The idea that you could get
(30:06):
all the flavor of a hamburger but without the beef
and the bad health effects of eating beef. There's not
bad health effects of eating beef. Well, that's how they market.
But that was lies. Everything about this product is lies.
It didn't taste like beef, it doesn't have the nutrition
of beef. Beef is not bad for you. It's it's
(30:27):
just one lie on top of another, on top of another,
and this stuff takes root people.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
See why do so many doctors say not to eat
a lot of red meat?
Speaker 1 (30:36):
A lot?
Speaker 5 (30:37):
Well, okay, but you do you eat it every single days?
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Not a lot? I don't know. I don't think it
is a lie. But what's the definition of a lot
every day? Why? Why is that doctors.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
Say what the studies show? Maybe once a week, once
a week, yes, not seven days a week.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
You're planning to get you down to something? Is it
pop possible? My ancestors came out of the Polish caves,
and most of my family lived long. We've got good
genetics when it comes to longevity. It's possible that that
that my tribe, my breed evolved to tolerate meat because
(31:19):
there was a lot of meat eaters in my family.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Do you have your appendix, John, Yes, Okay, well there
you go.
Speaker 5 (31:27):
I have my appendix as well.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Well, the appendix was used by the cavemen to digest
raw meat. Is that right? Yes? I didn't know that.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
That's why Eric turn off your own mic.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
No, that's that's why we have an appendix.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I didn't know they ever found the reason for an appendix.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah, oh well there take that. So if we all
have appendixes that takes care of the meat, is that
I mean? I bet it probably helps? No, I actually
I'm being serious. Is that I think different different let's say.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Groups, they they evolved based on what was available to
eat where they're tribe formed, and I think in Poland
there was there was always a lot of farming going
on and that would be the main source of of
prot So you think.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
There's something with Polish genetics that they can tolerate more
meat and not get they really use. But then you're
sort of admitting there can be bad health effects. It's
it's it's the older you're just saying the Polish may
have carved out of If anything is eaten to excess,
you can anything can cause I know. Then you two
debated what is excess. He says meat every.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
Day, seven days a week.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I mean, I think he only eats two meals a day,
am I right, Well, you have a bagel in the morning,
so I don't know what that that's not meat? So yeah,
usually usually just once a day and it fills me
up for hours.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
I can't.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
I can't meat once a day most of the time. Oh,
then that's not excessive. Sometimes twice seven days a week,
six Yeah, but once a day is not. But that
you know.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
See, my son is heavily into nutrition because he's an athlete,
and he says, beef has all kinds of micronutrients that
you can't get from other protein rich foods, and that's
one it's actually good for your health to have all
these other micronutrients in there.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Well, now here's one thing we all agree on that
this idea of these meat substitutes was atrocious and now
the failure is cataclysmic. Let me just read you this
beyond Meat went public in twenty nineteen. At the time,
the company was worth more than fourteen billion. Do you
know how much it was worth on Friday Hunch eight
(33:41):
hundred and twenty seven million dollars. That is a ninety
five percent collapse. Cause whatever they were serving tasted terrible.
Now you never touched those fake meats. I did. I
went to Carls Junior and had one of them. I
think it was beyond meat. Did it suck? It did
not suck, but it was not impressive, and I said
I'd rather stick with the regular burger. Just didn't really
(34:01):
there was something kind of slimy about it. And then
I think that's the one that has the peas in it,
smashed mashed peas and stuff. And I mean it didn't
taste really bad. It just did not notice motivate me.
And I say this a lot about restaurants. You want
to come back here, you don't want to come back here?
Or are you neutral? And in that case, I was like,
I'm not coming back for this. It was just, well,
(34:23):
you're not alone, not a motivator beyond me. It shares
have fallen ninety five percent over the last four years.
Now nobody's nobody wants to bet any money on this
because the product sucks.
Speaker 6 (34:36):
An They talked to an agricultural economics professor at UC
Davis who says, part of the problem here is the
way that they marketed this like it was going to
cure all that.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
And this is what you mocked when I first talked
about this a few minutes ago, that they were trying
to tell people you can get all the flavor and
joy of eating meat without the harmful effects of eating meat.
And he said they oversold it. They really gave people
a bag of crap.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Here it is Deborah Mark. Americans eat about three burgers
a week of God's above the.
Speaker 5 (35:07):
Act exactly three times a week versus six or seven.
That's a big difference.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
I'm above averaging many ways, not just my medium. Okay,
but this is this is one hysterical blog post from
twenty nineteen. Americans eat three burgers a week about but
if they switched just one of those beef burgers to
a Beyond Burger for a year, that's like taking that's
too funny. That's like taking twelve million cars off the
(35:32):
road for an entire year. The company wrote that in
a blog post in twenty nineteen, because again, part of
this was also about saving the planet because the beef
uses water and energy and those things. The thing I
don't believe that. I think they made up that statistic.
That makes no sense. Why would that's that's absurd. Well,
and I think they mean all Americans, So all the
(35:54):
Americans to eat about three burgers a week if they
cut back too, it couldn't be one American who cuts
back to do burgers. If we can just completely change humanity.
Speaker 5 (36:04):
Try a quen Wah burger.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
When I understand what quen wa is, I honestly don't.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
I had a quen Wah salad yesterday. It's delicious, it's
full of protein. It's it's like a grain, but it
has a lot of protein, and oh my gosh, if
you have fried quen wa, it tastes so good. But
I have had quen Wah burgers because I don't. I
don't eat the fake meat. And no, it doesn't taste
like a burger because I don't want the taste of
a burger. But it's amazing and you get a lot
(36:32):
of protein.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
So don't call it a burger. Well, why did they insist?
I'm calling it just.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
Like, Okay, we're going to go back to the cocon.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
They put it on the grill that's in the shape
of a burger, so it has kind of that whole Yeah.
I know they're trying to fool people, That's what they're
trying to do. I've been disappointed by most alternative burgers
and veggie burgers. The only one I ever had, and
I've mentioned this before is Houston's Restaurant had one, and
I forget what they put in it, but it had
that grilled charred flavor or two, which is what made
(37:02):
it extraordinard. I'm not interested in this. I'm not interested
in taking twelve million cars off the road. Really, I
want to live my line. I don't think they understand
how burned out most people are by this stuff. It's
just all right, speaking of burned out, we'll be at
the Gavin Newsom is maybe sort of possibly running for
president desk. He did do this interview with Fox News
as Sean Hannity. We have some preview clips. Johnny KENKFI
(37:24):
AM six forty Live Everywhere, the iHeartRadio app, Debora Mark
Live in the twenty four hour CAFI Newsroom. Hey, you've
been listening to the John and Ken Show. You can
always hear us live on CAFI AM six forty one
pm to four pm every Monday through Friday, and of course,
anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app
I am six forty.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
You're listening to the John and Ken Show on demand
on the iHeartRadio app. We're live in the radio from
one until four and after four o'clock.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
What'd you miss? High?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
If you miss something, you go to the podcast Johnny
Canon demand on the iHeart app.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
All right, well, we're gonna get right into it because
we have a special interview. Over the weekend, news came
out that the unibomber is dead. Remember that story. Between
nineteen seventy eight and nineteen ninety five, someone was mailing
bombs to people around the country. When they finally caught
up with them, he was identified as Ted Kaczinski, the
(00:38):
man who lived in a sparse cabin in Montana, and
of course the motivation was allegedly his hatred of the
modern world and technology. Three people were killed, twenty three
others were wounded. He was serving eight life sentences for
these bombs. He died, and then we learned about a
day later that suicide eighty one years old. At first
(01:00):
I thought it might be natural causes, because they had
transferred him from a federal prison in Colorado to like
a medical federal medical facility, and I thought maybe because
he was going downhill. But they're now saying he killed himself.
He had late stage cancer. Okay, well maybe that's why
he killed himself.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
And he sent the bombs to either university professors or
airline executives, which.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
And I just learned, hence the name unibomber. That's right
for university airlines.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, so we're going to talk now with Jonathan Epstein.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yes, we're gonna talk with Jonathan Epstein. His father was
one of the victims. His father did survive the bombing,
but it was atrocious. His father was doctor Charles Epstein,
University of California at San Francisco, geneticist.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
All right, let's get Jonathan Epstein on. Jonathan, thanks for
coming on with.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Us, Thanks for having me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
One of the things I just read in the story
about you, Jonathan, is you were hoping that that was
your last interview we're going to do about this, but
you agreed to come on our show. We appreciate that.
Thank you for doing that.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah, absolutely, that statement was a little premature.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Perhaps, Yeah, well, I mean there's been interest in this
for almost thirty years now, ever since the world became
aware of the unibomber, and actually his bombings go back
wide about forty five years, so you've been living with this,
you know, a big percentage of your life. Did you
have a particular reaction when you heard he was dead?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah, I mean, I guess you know, I was initially
felt glad about the news. It's not great when anyone
dies in general, but you know, my hope was and
what prompted my statement about interviews is that we brought
we'd finally be able to put this chapter of our
lives to a close. It's you know, it's been a while,
(02:51):
it's been thirty years. My father was the age I
am now when this happens.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah, let's talk about that. And your father, of course
has since passed away, but he did survive this bombing.
What did he do at UCSF?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
So my father was head of human genetics. He started
out his career bringing healthcare out to rural areas, in
particular the NEOs andesis procedure, which was new at the time,
but he ended up developing a specialty in down syndrome
(03:25):
and really trying to understand how having an extra chromosome
manifested the way it did, and as part of that,
instituted the first people that did genetic counseling who helped
parents that had or we would potentially have children that
had you not the normal set of chromosomes, and helped
(03:48):
them get through that experience.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
It sounds like it was doing remarkable research. The unibomber
picking out your father, I mean it puzzles you too.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Right, Yeah, I think you know he was He was mentioned,
and my father was, you know, used a lot as
a source, and so he was quoted in a New
York Times story. I'm not sure what that story it was.
It might have been about genetic engineering, which was something
very new that he had nothing to do with this.
So we always felt that, you know, since he hadn't
(04:23):
done his homework, if he was trying to achieve the
objectives he had stated in his manifesto, he he picked
a guy that was focused on doing good with science
and also bringing the benefits of science and technology to
you know, the full population, not just the elites.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
What happened to your dad the day he got this bomb?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah, so he was alone at home. I think my
sister had brought in the package and he opened it
up and it blew up. The bomb was designed to maime,
not kill, for which we're you know, fortunate relatively. I
guess he had thick glasses on, so it probably saved
his eyesight. He lost fingers, he had a lot of
(05:09):
internal injuries, essentially opened it. It kind of waste level
he and we know this by backing the blood trail.
He stumbled out of the kitchen, but it went the
wrong way and then went out of the front door.
The house fell down in our driveway, and the neighbors
had heard the blast, and they came and.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Did he have the Did he have long term health
problems because of the blast outside of the missing fingers, I.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Think, well, he lost some of his hearing. He had
a lot of pain from the internal injuries over time,
but I do feel that over and you know, it
took years to get his hands back in shape. But
you know, by the end of his life, I think
he was you know, other than missing some hearing and
(06:00):
some fingers, which isn't great when you're a cellist. You know,
he was able to with a pullette.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Now were you were you and your family aware of
the unibomber, I mean, the attack on your father happened
a bit late in his bombing history. Nineteen ninety three
and he was arrested a couple of years later. Were
you were you aware of him being out there?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I was not. I never heard of the guy before,
and my father was the first in what became the
new string of bombing, so it really had no historical context.
Had never heard of that name until the FBI came
calling to the house and included us in that this might.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Be the Yeah, he took some time off, Kazinski did
from doing this, as I recall, and then there was
a string of them later before they caught up and
arrested him.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Did you read his manifesto because that that consumed the
whole nation when it was published and published in New
York Times, I think, and that's what led to his chature.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah, he had a distinctive writing style, to say the least.
I read some of it. I have not read the
full manifesto.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
How did your father feel about, you know, catching Kazinsky
and the punishment and all of that.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Uh. I never really got my father's viewpoint on it.
Obviously they were glad he caught him caught, because then
they caught Kazinsky. My mother was, you know, very obviously
and rightfully upset and angry about the whole thing, and
she was upset that he twedd out. She wanted him
(07:40):
to be confronted in court by you know, the results
of his actions and felt the tech fee each way
out as she may have just done so by committing suicide.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yeah, we appreciate you talking about your dad. I see
here also in the story we're looking at that you
don't want your father to be remembered as a uni
i'm or victim. You want to be remembered for what
he did for science.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah, there was always this kind of dual edge sword.
I think, you know, it was hard for him not
to be identified in that way because he was a
victim and it was a pretty small group of people
and he was fortunate to survive. But my father was
very you know, one of the top geneticis of the country.
He went on to be the initial scientific advisor and
(08:26):
later the chairman of the Layer Trustees for the Buck Institute,
which is a leading institute focused on age research or
aging research and why by getting old does what it
does to us because there was a connection between down
syndrome and aging, and so, yeah, he was very accomplished.
He had more than five hundred scientific papers to his name,
(08:48):
and you know, ultimately that in the books he wrote
on medicine that we hope will be his legacy, and.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
He was he able to continue a lot of his
work after the bombing.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
He did after a while, after you know a couple
of years of recuperating, he went back to his lab
and he actually was able to play the cello again,
you know, on a personal life basis. They hit special
bows for him that he could hold despite his missing appendages.
But yeah, he went full long into research and if anything,
(09:22):
you know, he when this happened, he was fifty nine
my age, and was that a point in his career
where he's you know, kind of wondering, Hey, what's this
all been for? When the you know, the one that's
silver lining that's even a real thing in this case
of the incident, was that he got thousands of letters
from people whose lives he had positively impacted by his
(09:45):
work in genetics and genetic counseling. And I think that
shield him to do you know, another ten years.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And yeah, and most people never get that, nothing even
close to it. Well, listen, thank you very much for
coming on with us and talking about your father and
talking about that terrible time. People shouldn't forget, you know,
the victims in these cases. Jonathan Epstein, he's the son
of the UC San Francisco geneticist, doctor Charles Epstein, one
(10:13):
of the unibomber victims. He survived the mail bomb that exploded.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Just a geneticist who was doing great work on down syndrome.
And that's why the wild crazy guy Kazinski sometimes didn't
Obviously what he was doing was wild and crazy, but
even picking some of his victims just seemed really remarkably weird.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
You know, there's a there's a TV reporter quoted in
a story covered the court case at the time, and
he would look at us sitting there and nod and smile,
almost like we were going to have coffee.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
With him that day. He was just, you know, he
was extremely mentally ill with this bizarre obsession. We got
a little bit more coming up next on Kazinski. He
was at one one time the sort of a professor
at UC Berkeley, and his students, most of them didn't
remember him because he didn't like to talk to people. Obviously,
(11:09):
he hated humanity. So we'll talk a little bit more
coming up. Johnny KENKFI AM six forty live everywhere the
iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
You're listening to John and Ken on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
We're on the radio one till four after four o'clock.
What'd you miss?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Go to the iHeart app for the John and Kent
podcast and you know one ads to the other.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
You do the radio show. Whatever you missed, you do
the podcast?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
All right?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Well, the unibomber is dead. He apparently killed himself in
a federal medical type prison back east at the age
of eighty one. John said, what he had late stage
cancer of some kind. Yeah. Ted Kaczynski came from Chicago,
but he does have ties to the West Coast. It
was obviously a math whiz, and he got a scholarship
at Harvard. At sixteen, he went to Harvard and then
(11:58):
from there he moved to the University of Michigan for
a advanced degree in math, and then in nineteen sixty
two he eventually landed as an assistant math professor at
you see, Berkeley. He was just twenty five years old
and on a tenure track already. Now you had mentioned
earlier that one of the reasons they were able to
(12:19):
nab the unibomber ted Kazinski is because the New York
Times published his manifesto. It was his brother, David Kazinski,
who recognized the work of his own brother and basically
turned him in, And that's how they tracked ted Kaczinski
down and arrested him. Back then, there's a few memories
that people came up with, But when he was a
(12:42):
math professor at you see, Berkeley, a lot of people
could not remember him because he was antisocial. He didn't
really want to relate to people or to anyone else.
In fact, the guy that ran to the department at
the time had no recollection of Kazinsky being a professor there.
He was just very withdrawn. He lived in a cottage
behind a main residence in a quite residential neighborhood and
(13:04):
pretty much kept to himself. Even students complained he would
not answer questions, just read out of the textbook. Imagine
a profession that doesn't answer questions. And the ideas for
you know, students to be very inquisitive and to really
ask you a bunch of questions to further their learning.
It's like I didn't want to answer a question. Now
that I've had three sons go through college. You have
(13:24):
no idea how many freaks are college professors. I'm like,
like out and out weirdos.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
And because I've seen some videos of them teaching, I've
heard the stories, and these are a lot of maladjusted
social outcasts who really could not exist in the real world.
But they have their one little genius niche that they
are obsessed with and they can put pontificate on. But
(13:53):
now that that whole world is scary, it really is,
and Kazinski is one of the scary ones. The thing
that was most fascinating. And I remember I remember reading
a book on Kazinsky and this popped out in one
of the news stories this weekend.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
When he was.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I guess at Harvard, he was part of a psychological
experiment run by a professor, Henry Murray. Murray was later
accused of running what amounted to a cruel human experiment
on young adults. His goal was to subject them to
extreme stress to see how people responded to trauma. So
(14:33):
Kazinsky spent two hundred hours in the experiment absorbing all
this verbal abuse. The verbal abuse focused on each subject's
weaknesses and triggers, and then you'd have to watch yourself
being berated than he's been two hundred hours. I don't
know if that had any effect on his behavior, gave
(14:55):
him some kind of a breakdown. I mean, I mean,
there's a great example who the hell would think of
and then and then carry it out.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
He eventually leaves Berkeley and he moves back home with
his parents for a while in Illinois. But as we
now know, he ended up in a cabin in Montana,
and that's where they caught him. In nineteen ninety six.
He struck California several times with bombs. In fact, they
did think he had some kind of ties to UC
Berkeley because there were two bombs detonated in a place
(15:26):
called Corey Hall at Berkeley, the only location the un
bomber hit twice, and one of them was an electrical
engineering professor who in nineteen eighty two picked up an
item looked like a tool in the brake room. It
was a pipe bomb. He got wounded in the face
with shrapnel. He did recover, and then then May of
eighty five, a graduate student went to open a package
(15:46):
left in the computer lab that caused severe damage to
the man's hand and arm. So turing nineteen seventy eight
nineteen ninety five, Kazinski targeted California four times, twice at
Corey Hall and twice in Sacramento, killing a computer store
owner and a timber industry lobbyist. You can really see
it was really all over the place with his targets
(16:07):
a computer store owner. I mean really not that any
of this is right, but it's like the bizarre madness
that overtook him.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah. He lived in a cabin. It was ten feet
by fourteen feet, flywood and tar paper, right, yeah, filled
with journals, a diary written in code, explosive ingredients to bombs.
And he hated that people thought he was mentally ill,
and he refused to let his lawyers defend him with
(16:35):
an insanity defense. He eventually pleaded guilty rather than lead insanity.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Because with his philosophical take on what was happening to
the world, he's not insane, we are.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, he thought he was right. He thought technology was
destroying the world yeap, and destroying humanity.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
There was another story I read. He was corresponding with
a man who wrote books. They were travel books or something,
but he asked a lot of questions about where can
he find the most remote place. You know, ultimately that's
what he want. It wasn't didn't His brother also live
like in a ditch for a while, a bunker. He lived, yes,
underground in a bunker with a storm door as his roof,
(17:15):
and he would pop open the storm door to to
climb out. And he was living there at the same
time that his brother is living in a cabin in Montana, Antana.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, so ah, that's score one for gen X and
running in the family Polish immigrant parents. The answer was
three three people picked the unibomber to die. In the
John and Ken twenty twenty three Goupoles people, about three
people did remember that he was out there and he
could die this year, and he did more. Coming up
Johnny Ken KFI AM six forty Live Everywhere the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
You're listening to John and Ken on demand from KFI
AM sixty.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Well tonight, Fox News is skilled to air it's entirety
the interview that Sean Hannity did with Dippity Too. I've
decided this is another tactic of Gavin Newsom's along with
the whole mystery of whether or not he's running for president.
We've been through that before. But he wants to be
the one that's different on his side of the party
of the Isle. He wants to challenge. It's cool that
(18:20):
he goes on Twitter and picks on Ron DeSantis in Florida.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, he's not spending much time on California's disaster, is he.
I mean, he's like Garcetti. Garceetti, he's a lame duck
don after the first term.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, I know. He just got re elected though, so
what he Dude, he's done being governor of California. There's
bigger things ahead. Yeah, like Garcetti, there's not. But yeah,
i'd be funny if Newsom ends up with some ambassador nomination. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
The thing.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
The thing is, he's he's he's he's posturing. He is
just bellowing. But there's not a lot of content, and
it's it's easy to pop his balloon because he's not
a good debater at all. He's not good at defending himself.
A lot of this is indefensible what he has in California.
(19:11):
He just likes to shout slogans. He likes to shout
like some aggressive attack and generally run and hide.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
It's easy to do that on Twitter. We could all
do that.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
But if you really have a solid a solid record
of accomplishment and a solid set of beliefs that are
that are correct, you wouldn't you wouldn't behave the way
he behaves.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Well, we'll be at the Newsom is maybe running for
President desk at two oh five. They did release some
preview clips to try to generate excitement for the full
airing of the interview. It was recorded over the weekend,
I think in Sacramento, so we'll play some of them.
They deal with Biden's mental capacity and Newsom's relationship with Trump,
(19:51):
and then the whole Ron DeSantis and the migrant flight thing.
Will get to that after the news at two o'clock.
There should be some good stuff in there now. John
admitt this story on Friday, so we did some digging
over the weekend, and yes it is real. Whether or
not it's carried out is still uncertain. But there is
a plan in Ireland to cut back on two hundred
(20:12):
thousand cows two hundred thousand cows to help them meet
their climate coals. There is an obsession among these religious
fanatics with the farts of cows, with the methane that
comes out of cows, you know, we all blow out
a little methane every day. It's just a natural byproduct
(20:36):
of the digestive system in mammal in mammals, But because camels, camels,
cows live outdoors and they eat all day, they pass
gas all day, and they belch and they belch. Don't
think it.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Cow burps, cow burps, cow farts. All the gases coming
out of the cow, they claim. And I don't even
believe this. I've decided that I believe almost nothing anymore.
The idea that the cows are a big driver of
their climate war. You know, their global warming obsession is
(21:11):
getting a little nuts. They'd like to turn the world
vegan now easy there, No, they really would.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
And that's an important distinction because that includes dairy. In fact,
I remember growing up and hearing that people loved Irish butter.
They put the apparently it's become very good in the
last to ten years, the butter from Ireland. Do you
ever see the products in stores? Yes, So that's so
it's not just about eating the meat. It's about the
dairy products too.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
They want the cows not to exist, but are in
ice cream, you know, You know, all these cows were
conceived for the purposes of food, right, so they want
them not to exist and because right they can't exist
because if they did, they keep farting. Correct, I mean
they have to eat what they eat. Well, you can't
(22:02):
give them a diet that wouldn't lead to farting and methane.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
This this comes from the Irish Agriculture Minister fact on
I'm looking at agweb dot com for the latest on this.
His name is Charlie mcconnoague and he said that they're
looking into ways to reduce messane emissions, including the two
hundred thousand cows over the next three years. Now this
would not be mandatory, it will be voluntary. They're actually
(22:29):
calling it a retirement exit scheme for aging farmers. Okay,
but what happens when now the farmer gets to retire
but the cow retires a different way.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
Yeah, that's really there.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
But what happens when they don't meet their goals? Ah see,
this is incrementalism, trust me. What they want is to
eliminate the dairy and meat cow species. That's what they
want to do.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Why would the Agricultural Minister though in Ireland want to
do that because that's kind of what he's probably been
tied up in all his.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Life because he's a progressive koop is there. I don't
know anything about him, but well, if he's behind this,
he is. His His work is self explanatory. If you're
trying to call cows because you think cows in Ireland
have something to do with your global warming, by definition,
you're a lunatic.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Well here's where it came from. The European Green Deal.
Twenty seven countries who signed on agreed to reduce greenhouse
gas emissions by at least fifty five percent by twenty thirty,
which isn't that far away. So I guess somebody in
Ireland said, how are we going to do this? Well,
we've got a lot of ag so maybe our way
of doing this versus people in cars?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
The premise is stupid. Fifty five percent by twenty thirty.
Why that percentage? Why that year? Why do you want
to change people's life? How much is European cows adding
to global warming?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Oh, there's no zero practice term zero, So we're only
talking about culling the herd ten percent a year.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Okay, that's gonna have no effect on the climate. This
is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
This is like religious rituals where you watch weird little
tribes go through strange little rituals. Right, They wear strange clothes,
they wear strange things on their heads, they chant weird prayers,
they go through weird dances, and and you know, they
march around their churches and temples whatever, and the whole
(24:29):
thing really looks ludicrous. If you're not in the cult,
all things just absurd. What are you doing? What's the
point of this? What effect is this having on anybody? Nothing?
There's no effect. And that's what this is. And I'm
telling you it is. One of the defining things about
humanity in this era is that old fashioned organized church,
(24:51):
which is a lot of it's pretty nuts to begin with,
is fading away. But because human beings need to believe
in something, they need to have, like some sort of
spiritual order to their life, they are now worshiping the planet.
And so the way the way old.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Religions wanted to honor God with their strange rituals, now
we are honoring the planet with our strange rituals. It's
it's exactly the same type of behavior, it's just aimed
in a different direction. Rather than God sitting in another
dimension somewhere or aiming it at the upper atmosphere.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
So they claim that the agricultural sector of Ireland accounts
for thirty eight percent of that nation's greenhouse gas emissions.
And I don't know who does this measurement. These numbers
are true, and it's the methane. It's also nitrous oxide
from the use of nitrogen fertilizer and manure management. As
part of this methane gas from livestock contributes to a
major portion of the world greenhouse gases. Methane supposedly accounts
(25:50):
for forty four percent of total life spots. But that's
how you grow food, is with the fertilizer. Well, now
you back to where you started. They don't want you
to eat that food. They don't want you to be alive,
but they no seriously alive.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
I'm alive, and well, thank.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
You very much, very noisy. Now PTA agrees with that.
Peta says that everyone should start taking personal responsibility by
saving the planet by going vegan. That's the that's Pita though,
and they're very upset with this plant. Although there's a
woman from the Green Party or in Ireland says, well,
what we're really talking about is dairy farmers not restocking.
In other words, they won't add cows at the same
(26:28):
level they were before. So the cows will be retired
and they won't die, but you don't add new ones.
So that's how the color. But it drives up the
price of meat. Oh, people still want the meat and
want the milk right in the butter. And then and
then people can't afford it.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
So then they have alternatives or they eat less.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
There are no alternatives. There are no there are. There
are avocados and father.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
Beans, carbonzo beans. There's plenty to eat, that's right. I mean, look,
if you want it bad enough, then you're going to
pay the higher price.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Why should meat eaters be punished with this manipulation?
Speaker 5 (27:09):
I don't have an answer for that. Well, I don't
have one that I want to stay.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
You jumped in, I gave you the floor, and.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
I'm taking the fifth.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Okay, all right, must be something awfully rude. All right,
when we come back the other side of this, the
attempt at getting people to eat meat alternatives. You won't
believe how much this is colossally collapsed. For talking about
some of the purveyors like Beyond Meat, We'll tell you
that story coming up. John and Ken KFI AM six forty.
(27:41):
We're live everywhere the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
You're listening to John and Ken on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I AM six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, we're on from one to four and if you
miss anything, you can pick it up check out the
on demand podcast at caf i am six forty dot
com or the iHeartRadio app. And leading off the two
o'clock hour, we'll drag out the one of the latest
desks we have. Gavin Newsom is running for president, is
maybe running for president, or is not running for president?
Take your pick. He made a big appearance sitting down
(28:19):
with the enemy. I guess Sean Hannity of Fox News
in Depth interview so brave, so courageous. Yeah, he wants
to show you. He'll walk right into the lions Dan
and he'll take him on. John, Right, we got to
organize what does it say in this clip we have
in the desk, but.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
From the bottom up, not that's top down, because Sean
Hannity is so frightening.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
See if he uses any what will you have? Are clips?
They're just short clips. Yeah, The whole interview runs tonight
and we'll probably have more tomorrow to choose from. But
we do have a few about Biden. We have one
about Biden. We have one about and we mentioned this
a few weeks ago. Newsome likes to brag about how
great a relationship he had with Trump when Trump was president.
(29:00):
And then the last one is about, of course the
migrant flights by Florida Governor Ron Deasan. Maybe he also
God Times also did a story on that over the weekend,
which is worth talking about two next hour. Maybe ego
maniacs just have a natural affinity for each other. That
could be Trump and Newsome. Man, Yeah, I think well,
like you said, they both wanted something right, you know,
(29:20):
it was actually Newsome wanted money from the federal government.
It was over the fires when Trump came out here
a few years back, so they both could look good
to use each other. We were talking in the last
segment about a plan in Ireland to cut back on
the dairy cow population in that nation to do something
about climate change. Four years ago. It was a company
(29:45):
called Beyond Meat, Remember the two biggies Beyond Meat and Impossible.
I actually saw commercially yesterday for impossible. I hadn't seen
one in years. I was like, wow, they're trying to
make a comeback. It was just wild interest in these
two meat alternative producers. The idea that you could get
(30:06):
all the flavor of a hamburger but without the beef
and the bad health effects of eating beef. There's not
bad health effects of eating beef. Well, that's how they market.
But that was lies. Everything about this product is lies.
It didn't taste like beef, it doesn't have the nutrition
of beef. Beef is not bad for you. It's it's
(30:27):
just one lie on top of another, on top of another,
and this stuff takes root people.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
See why do so many doctors say not to eat
a lot of red meat?
Speaker 1 (30:36):
A lot?
Speaker 5 (30:37):
Well, okay, but you do you eat it every single days?
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Not a lot? I don't know. I don't think it
is a lie. But what's the definition of a lot
every day? Why? Why is that doctors.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
Say what the studies show? Maybe once a week, once
a week, yes, not seven days a week.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
You're planning to get you down to something? Is it
pop possible? My ancestors came out of the Polish caves,
and most of my family lived long. We've got good
genetics when it comes to longevity. It's possible that that
that my tribe, my breed evolved to tolerate meat because
(31:19):
there was a lot of meat eaters in my family.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Do you have your appendix, John, Yes, Okay, well there
you go.
Speaker 5 (31:27):
I have my appendix as well.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Well, the appendix was used by the cavemen to digest
raw meat. Is that right? Yes? I didn't know that.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
That's why Eric turn off your own mic.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
No, that's that's why we have an appendix.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I didn't know they ever found the reason for an appendix.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah, oh well there take that. So if we all
have appendixes that takes care of the meat, is that
I mean? I bet it probably helps? No, I actually
I'm being serious. Is that I think different different let's say.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Groups, they they evolved based on what was available to
eat where they're tribe formed, and I think in Poland
there was there was always a lot of farming going
on and that would be the main source of of
prot So you think.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
There's something with Polish genetics that they can tolerate more
meat and not get they really use. But then you're
sort of admitting there can be bad health effects. It's
it's it's the older you're just saying the Polish may
have carved out of If anything is eaten to excess,
you can anything can cause I know. Then you two
debated what is excess. He says meat every.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
Day, seven days a week.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I mean, I think he only eats two meals a day,
am I right, Well, you have a bagel in the morning,
so I don't know what that that's not meat? So yeah,
usually usually just once a day and it fills me
up for hours.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
I can't.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
I can't meat once a day most of the time. Oh,
then that's not excessive. Sometimes twice seven days a week,
six Yeah, but once a day is not. But that
you know.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
See, my son is heavily into nutrition because he's an athlete,
and he says, beef has all kinds of micronutrients that
you can't get from other protein rich foods, and that's
one it's actually good for your health to have all
these other micronutrients in there.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Well, now here's one thing we all agree on that
this idea of these meat substitutes was atrocious and now
the failure is cataclysmic. Let me just read you this
beyond Meat went public in twenty nineteen. At the time,
the company was worth more than fourteen billion. Do you
know how much it was worth on Friday Hunch eight
(33:41):
hundred and twenty seven million dollars. That is a ninety
five percent collapse. Cause whatever they were serving tasted terrible.
Now you never touched those fake meats. I did. I
went to Carls Junior and had one of them. I
think it was beyond meat. Did it suck? It did
not suck, but it was not impressive, and I said
I'd rather stick with the regular burger. Just didn't really
(34:01):
there was something kind of slimy about it. And then
I think that's the one that has the peas in it,
smashed mashed peas and stuff. And I mean it didn't
taste really bad. It just did not notice motivate me.
And I say this a lot about restaurants. You want
to come back here, you don't want to come back here?
Or are you neutral? And in that case, I was like,
I'm not coming back for this. It was just, well,
(34:23):
you're not alone, not a motivator beyond me. It shares
have fallen ninety five percent over the last four years.
Now nobody's nobody wants to bet any money on this
because the product sucks.
Speaker 6 (34:36):
An They talked to an agricultural economics professor at UC
Davis who says, part of the problem here is the
way that they marketed this like it was going to
cure all that.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
And this is what you mocked when I first talked
about this a few minutes ago, that they were trying
to tell people you can get all the flavor and
joy of eating meat without the harmful effects of eating meat.
And he said they oversold it. They really gave people
a bag of crap.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Here it is Deborah Mark. Americans eat about three burgers
a week of God's above the.
Speaker 5 (35:07):
Act exactly three times a week versus six or seven.
That's a big difference.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
I'm above averaging many ways, not just my medium. Okay,
but this is this is one hysterical blog post from
twenty nineteen. Americans eat three burgers a week about but
if they switched just one of those beef burgers to
a Beyond Burger for a year, that's like taking that's
too funny. That's like taking twelve million cars off the
(35:32):
road for an entire year. The company wrote that in
a blog post in twenty nineteen, because again, part of
this was also about saving the planet because the beef
uses water and energy and those things. The thing I
don't believe that. I think they made up that statistic.
That makes no sense. Why would that's that's absurd. Well,
and I think they mean all Americans, So all the
(35:54):
Americans to eat about three burgers a week if they
cut back too, it couldn't be one American who cuts
back to do burgers. If we can just completely change humanity.
Speaker 5 (36:04):
Try a quen Wah burger.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
When I understand what quen wa is, I honestly don't.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
I had a quen Wah salad yesterday. It's delicious, it's
full of protein. It's it's like a grain, but it
has a lot of protein, and oh my gosh, if
you have fried quen wa, it tastes so good. But
I have had quen Wah burgers because I don't. I
don't eat the fake meat. And no, it doesn't taste
like a burger because I don't want the taste of
a burger. But it's amazing and you get a lot
(36:32):
of protein.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
So don't call it a burger. Well, why did they insist?
I'm calling it just.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
Like, Okay, we're going to go back to the cocon.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
They put it on the grill that's in the shape
of a burger, so it has kind of that whole Yeah.
I know they're trying to fool people, That's what they're
trying to do. I've been disappointed by most alternative burgers
and veggie burgers. The only one I ever had, and
I've mentioned this before is Houston's Restaurant had one, and
I forget what they put in it, but it had
that grilled charred flavor or two, which is what made
(37:02):
it extraordinard. I'm not interested in this. I'm not interested
in taking twelve million cars off the road. Really, I
want to live my line. I don't think they understand
how burned out most people are by this stuff. It's
just all right, speaking of burned out, we'll be at
the Gavin Newsom is maybe sort of possibly running for
president desk. He did do this interview with Fox News
as Sean Hannity. We have some preview clips. Johnny KENKFI
(37:24):
AM six forty Live Everywhere, the iHeartRadio app, Debora Mark
Live in the twenty four hour CAFI Newsroom. Hey, you've
been listening to the John and Ken Show. You can
always hear us live on CAFI AM six forty one
pm to four pm every Monday through Friday, and of course,
anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app
The John Kobylt Show News
Host
John Kobylt
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