February 19, 2025 • 28 mins
In this conversation, Mark Dubowitz, Chief Executive of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, shares his journey from a passionate child in South Africa to a leading figure in defending democracies globally. He discusses his experiences, the challenges faced by democracies today, particularly in relation to Iran and China, and reflects on the political landscapes of South Africa and Canada. The Karol Markowicz Show is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Wednesday & Friday.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, and welcome back to the Carrol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
Two days ago, Meghan Kelly posted this on X Ladies,
is possible to make your own money, have your own career,
pay for your own swanky New York City apartment, et cetera,
and find a man who loves you, wants to have
and raise kids with you, and wants to be with
(00:23):
you and only you. The only thing stopping you your
decision to settle for less end quote. Now, I'm not
exactly sure what spurred this commentary. I kind of assume
it's that news about Elon Musk's latest child and the
image of his latest baby mama in her yes, swanky
New York City apartment, but without her baby's father. Now,
(00:47):
I'm just speculating that this is the impetus of that,
but it sounds about right to me. Megan got such
bizarre pushback that I'm not sure people even read her tweet.
Responses said they like not wanting to be a boss, babe,
is not settling for less. My kids were raised by me,
not a nanny or daycare. It's okay to find a
(01:08):
man who wants to provide for his family.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yeah, she didn't say that. It wasn't. In fact, if
you look at what she wrote, she was saying that
you could find someone who will provide for the family
and that wants to be with only you. One of
the responses I did like was by an account I follow.
I never know how to pronounce this. It's TXs alt
(01:31):
two oh, texas off two oh. She wrote, quote, I'm
not making Kelly in appearances, brain or talent, but I
have been able to achieve a life with similar results
if you desire to have a successful career and a
loving family. Some additional points I'd like to highlight Megan,
Kelly's husband is smart, but he does not match her income.
In order to achieve this result, women need to be
(01:54):
good with that. Megan married a man who was not
threatened or masculated by her success. He also doesn't see
her as a free ride. There's a degree of initiative
and drive required on his part that prevents him from coasting.
Family is always the first priority for both parties, not
the career. She knows her success would not be possible
without him and his contributions to the family, and he
(02:16):
knows her success is his. They are a team, not
two individuals that decided to procreate, but one unit with
the same goals, drive, and purpose end quote. I really
like that because it ties into this thing we hear
about often, which is that women can only date or
marry men more successful than they are. So what would
(02:38):
it mag and Kelly do, She's already super successful. I
think we look at it wrong, Like there's a school
of thought that women go to college and higher numbers
than men, and they still have to find men to
marry at at least their same education level. The math,
you know, as the kids say, is not mathing. I
(02:59):
wrote back in twenty fifteen about this that desire to
find someone with your same level of education is just
shorthand for finding someone ambitious. I wrote, it's that what
women continue to look for in men as security, and
a college degree goes a long way toward convincing them.
He can provide that we've just gotten to a point
(03:20):
where it's unacceptable to admit that, so we use the
college degree code to say the things we won't. We
want someone with a good job. We will take care
of us, Yes, even if we're perfectly capable of taking
care of ourselves. It's not as if women will turn
down an entrepreneur like Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates just
because they didn't finish college. Exceptions will be made. The
(03:43):
sooner society lets go of the college degree as some
sort of marker of success, the better the situation for
women seeking their mates will be. The numbers won't seem
so jarring, and the sad tales of women unable to
find their equal with dissipate. This focus on money in
a partner really leads women astray, and as I've talked
(04:03):
about on this show many times, success often follows in marriage.
Stability gives people the freedom to take chances they might
not otherwise take. It also pushes them to work harder.
Passing them a guy who isn't where he wants to
be in his career can be a big mistake. But
the main thing that Megan said that I think is
(04:25):
going ignored is that you don't have to settle for
a rich guy who's only somewhat with you while being
with other people. You can go get rich on your
own if that's important too, So you don't have to settle,
or you know, you can seek out somebody who is
successful but will commit to you our priorities are all
the way turned around, and telling women they have to
(04:45):
look for men who are more successful than they are
leads to this kind of ruin. People didn't like her
comment about the swank in New York City apartment, but
her point is a very good one. If you need
the swanky apartment and you feel like that you won't
be fulfilled unless you have it. Don't settle for being
the fourth baby mama. Go get it on your own
(05:06):
and wait for the full package. Thanks for listening. Coming
up my interview with Mark Debowitz. But first, after more
than a year of war, terror and pain in Israel,
there is still a great demand for basic humanitarian aid.
The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews has supported and
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(05:30):
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(06:17):
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eight eight four three two five.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My
guest today is Mark Dubowitz, Chief executive of Defense of Democracies. Hi, Mark,
So nice to have you on.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Hey, Carol, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
So this is a show about how you got to
where you are and what you're all about. Did you
always want to defend democracies?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I think I did. I was kind of a strange,
strange kid.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
I was actually born in South Africa, and I remember
when I think I was eight years old, my teacher
called my mom and said, you know, missus doubois, Mark's
a lovely, lovely kid, but he's really disruptive in class.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
And she said, oh, I'm sorry to hear that. What's
he doing?
Speaker 4 (07:13):
And the teachers said, well, Mark won't stop talking. About
how great America is and how America is the greatest
country and has the biggest military and and by the way,
this was nineteen seventy seven, so these are.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
The Carter years. They weren't good years for America.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
And anyway, so from a disruptive kid in South Africa,
we then ended up moving.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
I thought we were moving to America, but.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
It turns out we were moving to the fifty first state,
the state of Canada. And it took me about a
year or two to discover that we were not living
in America, that were actually living in another country. I
was very disappointed, gave my parents a really hard time.
But anyway, grew up in Canada and was always, you know,
very passionate about the United States, about American leadership, and
about defending democracies around the world.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
What was your path to this role? What how did
you get here? What was your previous job experience before
defending democracies?
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Yeah, I mean, totally unrelated, strange path I actually so
I cleared Mindograd.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
I did a law degree in MBA.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
I worked in tech and venture capital, and after nine
to eleven, like all of us, I was really struck
by what had happened. I was at the time living
in Toronto, and I remember turning on the TV on
that fateful morning was actually my birthday and my wife's birthday.
We had the same birthday, nine to eleven. So I'd
made a breakfast in bed, I come downstairs, turned on
(08:38):
the TV and it was BBC, and I was watching
What Happened and played Striking the Twin Towers. And of
course I was because I was watching BBC. The BBC
host was blaming America for nine to eleven right now,
already literally minutes into it, I mean, and of course
with BBC nothing's changed. I was so upset that I
(09:00):
I literally threw my shoe at the TV. My wife
walking down the stairs sees me do this and looks
at me and says, you know, Mark, either you've got
to change careers or you've got to get therapy. But
I'm not living with this for the next decade, And
sure enough I did. I came down to Washington. I
didn't know anybody. I did that sort of Washington thing,
(09:22):
which is kind of have coffee, informational coffees with people.
And I wasn't a US citizen. I didn't have a
green card, I couldn't work in the US government. I
actually tried to join the military, but the military told
me that I needed a green card. So all that
was left was to look at sort of think tanks.
And Cliff May had just opened FDD, the Foundation for
Defense Democracies, and I came in he hired me. I've
(09:45):
been eternally grateful to Cliff and I've been with him
for I guess now twenty one years leading efforts at FDD.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Men will do anything to avoid therapy. Really well.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
The funny thing is, men will also do anything to
avoid me making breakfast or launch for dinner again, because
since then I told my wife that since I made
her breakfast in bed nine to eleven happened, if I
ever made her lunch for dinner, right, it would be armageddon.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
So I haven't.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, you got to avoid the cooking altogether.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Thin.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Oh yeah, the last time it was in the kitchen
was nine to eleven.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
So do you end up becoming an American?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
I did?
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Yeah, I finally got got my green card, got naturalized
in twenty fifteen, just in time for the twenty sixteen election.
And yeah, it was a very emotional moment to go
and to be naturalized. I remember there was I don't
know eighty ninety immigrants were also then being naturalized, and
I say the Pledge of allegiance and it was really
(10:44):
really emotional days. I'm proud American ever since.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Do you think Canada and South Africa are worse off
for losing you or is that just coincidental?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yeah, both countries. It's interesting.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
I mean, I don't know if there's a cause of connection,
but both certainly went south after I left. South Africa
as a disaster as you know, headed up by a
government with close ties with the ron hamas China and Russia.
Actually said a piece recent in the Wall Street Journal
on South Africa, I think the first time I've written
on South Africa since I've left many many years ago.
(11:19):
Canada under Justin Trudeau has been also a bit of
a disaster. So hopefully we'll see a change there with
a new Prime minister. But yeah, I don't I don't
think it was my fault for leaving, but unfortunately, I
think a lot of good people also left, certainly left
South Africa and waves went to you know, Canada, the US, Israel, Australia.
(11:41):
So South Africa lost many of its best and brightest,
and and then many Canadians come down to the US,
you know, to seek fortune and fame. Because we Canadians,
we can easily blend in with Americans.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
There's a few tells, but no one knows. It's only
college sports where you can really tell if a.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Canadian is a Canadian, because we know professional sports, you know,
we know politics, we know American culture. They call the
forty ninth Parallel the longest one way looking.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Glass in the world.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Canadians look south, Americans rarely look north unless there's a
cold front moving south. But the tell is college sports.
We Canadians don't know much a college tour.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
That's interesting. I think that's true for like New Yorkers too.
I now live in Florida, where I've learned a lot more,
but I feel like New Yorkers are not not so
into the college sports. We have a lot of professionals.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Sports to you, that's it, right, Yeah, but if you're
really going to if you know, if if CIA or
FBI counter intelligence is trying to flash out Canadians, that
would be the question, like, yeah, questions about college football.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, like the l you know, when they test you
before you get on the plane to Israel, they ask
you all kinds of like really deep questions that could
definitely be one of them from the.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Canadian Absolutely absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Do you think there's any turnaround for South Africa and Canada?
I mean, and you say you're hopeful about Canada. Is
there a path for South Africa? Do you care about
these places like I still care about New York. Do
you still have some warmth for South Africa?
Speaker 4 (13:12):
I mean I do in the sense that you know,
I still have family there and friends there, and it's
a beautiful country, and I mean it's really so much
remarkable potential. I think it's just been so badly, you know, mismanaged.
It's that's what happens when you have one party rule
for decades. The a n C is incredibly corrupt and
(13:34):
as I said, has these alliances with bad actors, with
American enemies.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
I have some hope.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
I mean, the recent election saw the a n C
get the fewest number of votes that it has since Mandela,
and now in this democracy alliance with some of the oppositions,
So there's there is some potential. But I mean it's
just a classic example of what horrible governments can do.
To a country and it's really despite its beauty, it
(14:02):
has massive problems political, economic, social problems Canada. Yes, I
think they're you know, if the Conservatives win and the
next selection, you know, the Conservative leader there is just tremendous,
great American ally, great defender of Israel and other free nations,
so I think he could turn the place around. But
(14:23):
justin Trudeau has done some real damage there and a
lot of it's an immigration related. He's just let in
you know, a huge number of immigrants, which Canada is
a nation of immigrants and it's wonderful, but a where
a number of the immigrants have come from has created
real problems and a huge surgeon anti Semitism in the country.
(14:44):
And b they led in, you know, millions of new
immigrants without building the requisite infrastructure in terms of health
and education and housing, and it's massive problems to the country.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
What countries does FDD kind of see as optimistic and
you know, civil improvements in the next few years, and
which ones are they most worried about.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
We're not an optimistic bunch, so I'll have to think.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
About the then.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, the pessimism, that's easy.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
I mean, we defend the leaguer democracies, right, foundation of
defense democracies. They don't just sort of defend the platonic
concept of democracy, but actual democracy is under threat. And
the three that are obviously we're most concerned about our
our Israel, Taiwan, and Ukraine, and and do a lot
of work in defending those democracies. I would add to that,
you know, certainly democracies in Eastern Europe UH that Putin
(15:36):
is uh as part of his desire to rebuild the
Russian Empire, I think I think is potentially going to
be threatening. Democracies, you know, in the Indo Pacific, particularly Japan, Korea,
Philippines certainly of concern. Middle East doesn't have too many democracies,
but you know, we're certainly concerned about some of the
(15:57):
non democracies that are US allies, and we don't want
to see you know, Egypt or Jordan in particular go down.
Obviously the UAE Saudi Arabia threatened by Iran. But but
I think we're most concerned about Taiwan, Ukraine and in Israel.
But most optimistic. That's a great question, and I say
(16:19):
it's America, here we go. Yeah, I'm always optimistic about America.
I mean, I remember I mentioned that we left South
Africa in seventy seven and in the Carter years, and
I remember talking to my dad, uh, you know, as
a kid and really worried about it's America at the time.
This was sort of post Vietnam Carter energy crisis, you know,
(16:42):
severe depression, was severe recession, stagflation, and then the Islamic Revolution,
and it looked like America really was on its knees
at the time. And my dad, I remember saying to
me as a kid, you know, never count America out.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
You know, never count America out.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
I guess is that at Winston Churchill that God takes
care of babies, alcoholics in.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
The United States of America, right, love it? Yeah, I
think that's true. We have incredible.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
Resilience here and thank god, two huge oceans, but an
incredible country of creative people, amazing energy. So I am
more optimistic about America than I have been. I hope
the new administration, new Congress and start to reverse some
of the damage that it's been college in recent years.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. I came to America
in nineteen seventy eight from the Soviet Union, and my
parents tell the story of you know, they always wanted
to be Americans. They always spent their lives like imagining it.
And they get here in their thirties and it's carter
(17:51):
and everything is kind of falling apart. There's gas lines,
as inflation, there's you know, on a smaller level, they come.
My father arrives in the summer of sam and in
New York City and the riots and the blackout and
all the stuff, and he's like, WHOA, did I make
a mistake? And then of course Reagan just a few
years later and turns it all around. And I have
a brother named Ronald, and you know, the whole thing.
(18:13):
But I have to say that the last few years,
even though I've always been an American optimist, also I
saw how fast things to get bad and how fast
that slide into that terrible time can happen. I also
feel optimistic now, but it's definitely been for the first
time in my entire life. The last few years I
felt true pestimism about America. I'm not quite sure that
(18:37):
we could turn it around. And definitely feel better after
the beginning of the Trump presidency, I think so.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Yeah, I mean, we don't have wron o' reagan anymore,
and I don't know if there are any wrong o Reagan's
in our future. But yeah, I think that the damage
was serious and deep and potentially.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Long term.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
And you know, I hope President Trump is going to
turn this around. I don't think he has a lot
of time, so I hope he uses that time wisely
and selectively and not vindictively, because I think you can
get massively distracted in Washington by going personal rather than
focusing on serious policy.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
But yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
It's uh, I don't know if it's a you know,
it's a it's a new dawn, but it certainly is
an opportunity to reverse some of the the egregious policies
of Obama.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
And then Biden.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
What do you worry about?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
What do I worry about? Yeah, long list.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
I think these days I'm worried mostly at least in
the short term, about Iran's nuclear weapons program, and I
ran a nuclear breakouts. I mean, I think in recent months,
you know, these Raelis have done tremendous damage to Iran's
Axis of quote resistance, which I call the Axis of Misery,
which is their proxy networks. So, you know, remarkable turnaround
by the Israeli defense forces since October seventh, and I
(19:57):
think today the Lam of Republic is vulnerable. Its air
defenses have been destroyed, Zabala has been severely degraded, Hamasis
and eviscerated. So it seems to me possible, I don't
know if likely, but possible that supremely early common Ae
decides this is the time to develop nuclear weapons, to
create a nuclear re turrent. So I think twenty twenty
(20:19):
five can be a bit will be a big year
on the Iran side.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
That's short term. Long term, I'm I'm very worried.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
About China and the Chinese Communist Party, you know, I
mean that the Iranians are aren't capable of fundamentally transforming
the world in ways that would be.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
You know, really dangerous.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
The Chinese Communist Party is, and I think that's the
you know, the generational struggle.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
You mentioned you came from the Soviet Union.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
You know, I did Soviet studies when I was at
McGill University, and I remember.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
What were they pro Well, that's right, I mean, that's
a great question.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Well they were whatever they were they were wrong, because
I remember that the morning that the berl And wall
came down, we were all sitting in class and our
professor so Studies, came in and she said, well, everybody
get up and bring your textbook and throw it into
the scarbage can. And we all said, well, we just
spent a lot of money in our textbook. Well what's
going on now? Of course a lot of your listeners
(21:17):
won't remember these days, but this was pre internet, pre smartphone.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
I mean, we were just sitting in class. We had
no idea what was going on.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
And she said, the Berlin walls just came down, and
everything in that textbook was wrong, and much of what
I taught you was wrong. And it was sort of
that moment really stayed with me, both because it was,
you know, the end of this evil empire that I
had grown up with, or grown up not like you under,
but certainly worried about. But now I think there's another
(21:47):
evil empire, and there's an access of resistance and an
access of aggression with IRA in China, Russia and North Korea,
who are in an alliance against democracies, and I think
that's a danger as alliance and we're going to be
struggling against an alliance, certainly in our lifetimes.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
So I have a question. Maybe maybe this answers obvious,
but you know, I always kind of had this idea
that if a country opened up a little bit to
the west and it had McDonald's and it kind of
let in some of our ideas, that that country would
automatically move towards freedom and move towards democracy. North Korea
obviously hasn't done that, but Russia and China have. I mean,
(22:28):
you know, there's still obviously totalitarianism. I still have family
in Russia. I know all about it. But they you know,
they have McDonald's. So why didn't it work?
Speaker 4 (22:37):
It doesn't work because I think, you know, there's this
there was this delusion that you can seduce the hard
men of Moscow and Beijing and Tehran by flatting them
with cash, integrating them into the global economy and into.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Responsible global stakeholders.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Used to be that, you know, that phrase, which and
sort of McDonald's was kind of the personification of the
economy of that. But I think what that misses is
that these are hard men, and they are mostly men,
and they're men with ideas, with ideology in the case
of the Islamic Republic theology. And I think as Americans
we're kind of like the material girl, right, Like we
(23:14):
think that everybody, everybody just wants to have like nice things,
live a nice life, go.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
On nice though, Like, well it seems like that should
be true.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
It should be true.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
But you know what we're also we're also men and
women of ideas, right, I mean, the founding ideas of
the of the American Republic are profound, and we all
believe very strongly in them, and certainly a lot of
brave men and women have fought and given their lives
to defend the American Republic and our constitution. Well, you know,
they are also people of ideas, and their ideas are
(23:46):
not materially's life liberty in the procy of happiness is
not what the Mullas and Iran believe is the founding
principle of the Islamic Republic. And neither Vladimir Putin nor
Sijingping right, they have ideas, and their ideas or conquer
regions and conquer the world. And they want not just money,
but they want power, they want influence, and they want
(24:08):
their ideas to dominate the world.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
I think we engage in mirror imaging and believing.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
That our values and our ideals and our aspirations or
what they want and what many people want.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
And I think that's that's proven to be a delusion.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Well, my thinking on it is our ideas are objectively better.
They lead to better outcomes. Like look at the state,
you know, the state of our country versus the state
of their countries. Look at the level of wealth in
our country for everybody versus the level of wealth there.
How Come they don't have that same I get you.
It's definitely just bad ideas lead to bad outcomes, and
(24:47):
you hold on to those bad ideas. But the Berlin
Wall fell, how come we're not seeing that same change
in these places that did kind of open up. And again,
Iran and North Korea are completely different examples. Am I thinking?
But I would think that Russia and China would lean
in a little bit more to the ideas that are
clearly better.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Well again, I mean, you know Russia better than I do.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
And I think there's always been, well, there's always been
the struggle within the Russian society, within the Russian soul.
Do we lean west? Do we lean east? Are we
European country. Are we an Asian country? And certainly you
know China is a I mean it was an empire.
It's a old historic society.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
And they have a completely different view of the world
and view of themselves. In the word, they call themselves
the Middle Kingdom, right, when they mean the Middle Kingdom,
they mean the middle of the earth. Right. Their map
doesn't look like our map, and their map they are
the center of the world. And so I think Putin
wants to recreate the Russian empire, Xijian Ping who wants
to re establish the Chinese empire. And they're also motivated
(25:54):
by grievances, right.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Both both Putin and she believe that they have been
wrongly done by by the West and they want to
rectify that and re establish their power. And it is
about power at the end of the day. It's about power,
and it's about the spread of their ideas. You know,
they may be very wealthy, and they may be happy
to try to create wealth as an instrument of power
(26:17):
and control, but they're not material girls.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
They should be they should do what advice would you
give your sixteen year old self.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Wow, my sixteen year old self, get married early, have
more kids. I think I would also tell my sixteen
year old self to come to Washington sooner.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
You know, it's not a popular answer.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
No, I imagine, so, but you know, come here sooner, get involved.
I came here at thirty five, and you know that
was it was great.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
I'd done a lot of interesting things before that.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
But I think to come here sooner, get involved, you know,
get experience, work on the hill, work in the administration,
you know, serve in the military. I think incredible experience
for young people here. And I think the greatest people
that I've met in America are people that have been
that have served in the military. They're just remarkable people.
(27:13):
And I think that's true in other countries like Israel,
as we know.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
So, yeah, my sixteen year old self, get to get
to Washington sooner.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
I love that. So and us here with your best
tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.
And maybe it is to be material girls.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Yeah, I mean it sounds cliche, I think, was it.
I don't even remember it was Oscar Wilde or Marc Dwayne.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
I don even remember.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
You know, love your job, never work a day in
your life. I mean, I think that's the end of
the day has really been a great reward in my life.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Is I like tech, I like bench capital.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
It was interesting, but it was really when I was
thirty five, came to Washington, got involved in policy issues
and national security and defending democracies, that I found a
life of real meaning and real purpose. You know, I
get up every morning and it's very rare that I'm dragging.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Myself to work.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
It's usually with a sense of excitement, foreboding for sure,
but a sense of excitement and passion for what I do.
Do that don't necessarily pursue the material girl lifestyle, but
a lot of jobs that one can take.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
We'll give you a lot of money, but very little meaning.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Some of the best jobs may not give you as
much money, but butt a whole lot more meaning and
at the end of the day.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Short life. And I think a meaningful life is more
important than a material one.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
I love it. He is Mark Dabowitz, Chief executive of
Defense of Democracies. Thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Mark, Thanks so much, Carol, thanks so much for joining
us on the Carol Markoich Show. Subscribe wherever you get
your podcasts.
Hi, and welcome back to the Carrol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
Two days ago, Meghan Kelly posted this on X Ladies,
is possible to make your own money, have your own career,
pay for your own swanky New York City apartment, et cetera,
and find a man who loves you, wants to have
and raise kids with you, and wants to be with
(00:23):
you and only you. The only thing stopping you your
decision to settle for less end quote. Now, I'm not
exactly sure what spurred this commentary. I kind of assume
it's that news about Elon Musk's latest child and the
image of his latest baby mama in her yes, swanky
New York City apartment, but without her baby's father. Now,
(00:47):
I'm just speculating that this is the impetus of that,
but it sounds about right to me. Megan got such
bizarre pushback that I'm not sure people even read her tweet.
Responses said they like not wanting to be a boss, babe,
is not settling for less. My kids were raised by me,
not a nanny or daycare. It's okay to find a
(01:08):
man who wants to provide for his family.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yeah, she didn't say that. It wasn't. In fact, if
you look at what she wrote, she was saying that
you could find someone who will provide for the family
and that wants to be with only you. One of
the responses I did like was by an account I follow.
I never know how to pronounce this. It's TXs alt
(01:31):
two oh, texas off two oh. She wrote, quote, I'm
not making Kelly in appearances, brain or talent, but I
have been able to achieve a life with similar results
if you desire to have a successful career and a
loving family. Some additional points I'd like to highlight Megan,
Kelly's husband is smart, but he does not match her income.
In order to achieve this result, women need to be
(01:54):
good with that. Megan married a man who was not
threatened or masculated by her success. He also doesn't see
her as a free ride. There's a degree of initiative
and drive required on his part that prevents him from coasting.
Family is always the first priority for both parties, not
the career. She knows her success would not be possible
without him and his contributions to the family, and he
(02:16):
knows her success is his. They are a team, not
two individuals that decided to procreate, but one unit with
the same goals, drive, and purpose end quote. I really
like that because it ties into this thing we hear
about often, which is that women can only date or
marry men more successful than they are. So what would
(02:38):
it mag and Kelly do, She's already super successful. I
think we look at it wrong, Like there's a school
of thought that women go to college and higher numbers
than men, and they still have to find men to
marry at at least their same education level. The math,
you know, as the kids say, is not mathing. I
(02:59):
wrote back in twenty fifteen about this that desire to
find someone with your same level of education is just
shorthand for finding someone ambitious. I wrote, it's that what
women continue to look for in men as security, and
a college degree goes a long way toward convincing them.
He can provide that we've just gotten to a point
(03:20):
where it's unacceptable to admit that, so we use the
college degree code to say the things we won't. We
want someone with a good job. We will take care
of us, Yes, even if we're perfectly capable of taking
care of ourselves. It's not as if women will turn
down an entrepreneur like Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates just
because they didn't finish college. Exceptions will be made. The
(03:43):
sooner society lets go of the college degree as some
sort of marker of success, the better the situation for
women seeking their mates will be. The numbers won't seem
so jarring, and the sad tales of women unable to
find their equal with dissipate. This focus on money in
a partner really leads women astray, and as I've talked
(04:03):
about on this show many times, success often follows in marriage.
Stability gives people the freedom to take chances they might
not otherwise take. It also pushes them to work harder.
Passing them a guy who isn't where he wants to
be in his career can be a big mistake. But
the main thing that Megan said that I think is
(04:25):
going ignored is that you don't have to settle for
a rich guy who's only somewhat with you while being
with other people. You can go get rich on your
own if that's important too, So you don't have to settle,
or you know, you can seek out somebody who is
successful but will commit to you our priorities are all
the way turned around, and telling women they have to
(04:45):
look for men who are more successful than they are
leads to this kind of ruin. People didn't like her
comment about the swank in New York City apartment, but
her point is a very good one. If you need
the swanky apartment and you feel like that you won't
be fulfilled unless you have it. Don't settle for being
the fourth baby mama. Go get it on your own
(05:06):
and wait for the full package. Thanks for listening. Coming
up my interview with Mark Debowitz. But first, after more
than a year of war, terror and pain in Israel,
there is still a great demand for basic humanitarian aid.
The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews has supported and
continues to support those in the Holy Land still facing
(05:30):
the lingering horrors of war, and those who are in
desperate need right now. Your gift today will provide critically
needed aid to communities in the North and South devastated
by the ongoing war. Your generous donation will deliver help
to those in need, including evacuees and refugees from war
(05:51):
torn areas, first responders and volunteers, wounded soldiers, elderly Holocaust survivors,
families who have lost everything, and so many more. You
can give hope during a time of great uncertainty. Give
a gift to bless Israel and her people by visiting
SUPPORTIFCJ dot org. That's one word, SUPPORTIFCJ dot org. Or
(06:17):
call eight eight eight four eight eight IFCJ. That's eight
eight eight four eight eight IFCJ eight eight eight four
eight eight four three two five.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My
guest today is Mark Dubowitz, Chief executive of Defense of Democracies. Hi, Mark,
So nice to have you on.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Hey, Carol, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
So this is a show about how you got to
where you are and what you're all about. Did you
always want to defend democracies?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I think I did. I was kind of a strange,
strange kid.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
I was actually born in South Africa, and I remember
when I think I was eight years old, my teacher
called my mom and said, you know, missus doubois, Mark's
a lovely, lovely kid, but he's really disruptive in class.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
And she said, oh, I'm sorry to hear that. What's
he doing?
Speaker 4 (07:13):
And the teachers said, well, Mark won't stop talking. About
how great America is and how America is the greatest
country and has the biggest military and and by the way,
this was nineteen seventy seven, so these are.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
The Carter years. They weren't good years for America.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
And anyway, so from a disruptive kid in South Africa,
we then ended up moving.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
I thought we were moving to America, but.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
It turns out we were moving to the fifty first state,
the state of Canada. And it took me about a
year or two to discover that we were not living
in America, that were actually living in another country. I
was very disappointed, gave my parents a really hard time.
But anyway, grew up in Canada and was always, you know,
very passionate about the United States, about American leadership, and
about defending democracies around the world.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
What was your path to this role? What how did
you get here? What was your previous job experience before
defending democracies?
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Yeah, I mean, totally unrelated, strange path I actually so
I cleared Mindograd.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
I did a law degree in MBA.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
I worked in tech and venture capital, and after nine
to eleven, like all of us, I was really struck
by what had happened. I was at the time living
in Toronto, and I remember turning on the TV on
that fateful morning was actually my birthday and my wife's birthday.
We had the same birthday, nine to eleven. So I'd
made a breakfast in bed, I come downstairs, turned on
(08:38):
the TV and it was BBC, and I was watching
What Happened and played Striking the Twin Towers. And of
course I was because I was watching BBC. The BBC
host was blaming America for nine to eleven right now,
already literally minutes into it, I mean, and of course
with BBC nothing's changed. I was so upset that I
(09:00):
I literally threw my shoe at the TV. My wife
walking down the stairs sees me do this and looks
at me and says, you know, Mark, either you've got
to change careers or you've got to get therapy. But
I'm not living with this for the next decade, And
sure enough I did. I came down to Washington. I
didn't know anybody. I did that sort of Washington thing,
(09:22):
which is kind of have coffee, informational coffees with people.
And I wasn't a US citizen. I didn't have a
green card, I couldn't work in the US government. I
actually tried to join the military, but the military told
me that I needed a green card. So all that
was left was to look at sort of think tanks.
And Cliff May had just opened FDD, the Foundation for
Defense Democracies, and I came in he hired me. I've
(09:45):
been eternally grateful to Cliff and I've been with him
for I guess now twenty one years leading efforts at FDD.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Men will do anything to avoid therapy. Really well.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
The funny thing is, men will also do anything to
avoid me making breakfast or launch for dinner again, because
since then I told my wife that since I made
her breakfast in bed nine to eleven happened, if I
ever made her lunch for dinner, right, it would be armageddon.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
So I haven't.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, you got to avoid the cooking altogether.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Thin.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Oh yeah, the last time it was in the kitchen
was nine to eleven.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
So do you end up becoming an American?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
I did?
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Yeah, I finally got got my green card, got naturalized
in twenty fifteen, just in time for the twenty sixteen election.
And yeah, it was a very emotional moment to go
and to be naturalized. I remember there was I don't
know eighty ninety immigrants were also then being naturalized, and
I say the Pledge of allegiance and it was really
(10:44):
really emotional days. I'm proud American ever since.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Do you think Canada and South Africa are worse off
for losing you or is that just coincidental?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yeah, both countries. It's interesting.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
I mean, I don't know if there's a cause of connection,
but both certainly went south after I left. South Africa
as a disaster as you know, headed up by a
government with close ties with the ron hamas China and Russia.
Actually said a piece recent in the Wall Street Journal
on South Africa, I think the first time I've written
on South Africa since I've left many many years ago.
(11:19):
Canada under Justin Trudeau has been also a bit of
a disaster. So hopefully we'll see a change there with
a new Prime minister. But yeah, I don't I don't
think it was my fault for leaving, but unfortunately, I
think a lot of good people also left, certainly left
South Africa and waves went to you know, Canada, the US, Israel, Australia.
(11:41):
So South Africa lost many of its best and brightest,
and and then many Canadians come down to the US,
you know, to seek fortune and fame. Because we Canadians,
we can easily blend in with Americans.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
There's a few tells, but no one knows. It's only
college sports where you can really tell if a.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Canadian is a Canadian, because we know professional sports, you know,
we know politics, we know American culture. They call the
forty ninth Parallel the longest one way looking.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Glass in the world.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Canadians look south, Americans rarely look north unless there's a
cold front moving south. But the tell is college sports.
We Canadians don't know much a college tour.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
That's interesting. I think that's true for like New Yorkers too.
I now live in Florida, where I've learned a lot more,
but I feel like New Yorkers are not not so
into the college sports. We have a lot of professionals.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Sports to you, that's it, right, Yeah, but if you're
really going to if you know, if if CIA or
FBI counter intelligence is trying to flash out Canadians, that
would be the question, like, yeah, questions about college football.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, like the l you know, when they test you
before you get on the plane to Israel, they ask
you all kinds of like really deep questions that could
definitely be one of them from the.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Canadian Absolutely absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Do you think there's any turnaround for South Africa and Canada?
I mean, and you say you're hopeful about Canada. Is
there a path for South Africa? Do you care about
these places like I still care about New York. Do
you still have some warmth for South Africa?
Speaker 4 (13:12):
I mean I do in the sense that you know,
I still have family there and friends there, and it's
a beautiful country, and I mean it's really so much
remarkable potential. I think it's just been so badly, you know, mismanaged.
It's that's what happens when you have one party rule
for decades. The a n C is incredibly corrupt and
(13:34):
as I said, has these alliances with bad actors, with
American enemies.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
I have some hope.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
I mean, the recent election saw the a n C
get the fewest number of votes that it has since Mandela,
and now in this democracy alliance with some of the oppositions,
So there's there is some potential. But I mean it's
just a classic example of what horrible governments can do.
To a country and it's really despite its beauty, it
(14:02):
has massive problems political, economic, social problems Canada. Yes, I
think they're you know, if the Conservatives win and the
next selection, you know, the Conservative leader there is just tremendous,
great American ally, great defender of Israel and other free nations,
so I think he could turn the place around. But
(14:23):
justin Trudeau has done some real damage there and a
lot of it's an immigration related. He's just let in
you know, a huge number of immigrants, which Canada is
a nation of immigrants and it's wonderful, but a where
a number of the immigrants have come from has created
real problems and a huge surgeon anti Semitism in the country.
(14:44):
And b they led in, you know, millions of new
immigrants without building the requisite infrastructure in terms of health
and education and housing, and it's massive problems to the country.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
What countries does FDD kind of see as optimistic and
you know, civil improvements in the next few years, and
which ones are they most worried about.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
We're not an optimistic bunch, so I'll have to think.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
About the then.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, the pessimism, that's easy.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
I mean, we defend the leaguer democracies, right, foundation of
defense democracies. They don't just sort of defend the platonic
concept of democracy, but actual democracy is under threat. And
the three that are obviously we're most concerned about our
our Israel, Taiwan, and Ukraine, and and do a lot
of work in defending those democracies. I would add to that,
you know, certainly democracies in Eastern Europe UH that Putin
(15:36):
is uh as part of his desire to rebuild the
Russian Empire, I think I think is potentially going to
be threatening. Democracies, you know, in the Indo Pacific, particularly Japan, Korea,
Philippines certainly of concern. Middle East doesn't have too many democracies,
but you know, we're certainly concerned about some of the
(15:57):
non democracies that are US allies, and we don't want
to see you know, Egypt or Jordan in particular go down.
Obviously the UAE Saudi Arabia threatened by Iran. But but
I think we're most concerned about Taiwan, Ukraine and in Israel.
But most optimistic. That's a great question, and I say
(16:19):
it's America, here we go. Yeah, I'm always optimistic about America.
I mean, I remember I mentioned that we left South
Africa in seventy seven and in the Carter years, and
I remember talking to my dad, uh, you know, as
a kid and really worried about it's America at the time.
This was sort of post Vietnam Carter energy crisis, you know,
(16:42):
severe depression, was severe recession, stagflation, and then the Islamic Revolution,
and it looked like America really was on its knees
at the time. And my dad, I remember saying to
me as a kid, you know, never count America out.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
You know, never count America out.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
I guess is that at Winston Churchill that God takes
care of babies, alcoholics in.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
The United States of America, right, love it? Yeah, I
think that's true. We have incredible.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
Resilience here and thank god, two huge oceans, but an
incredible country of creative people, amazing energy. So I am
more optimistic about America than I have been. I hope
the new administration, new Congress and start to reverse some
of the damage that it's been college in recent years.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. I came to America
in nineteen seventy eight from the Soviet Union, and my
parents tell the story of you know, they always wanted
to be Americans. They always spent their lives like imagining it.
And they get here in their thirties and it's carter
(17:51):
and everything is kind of falling apart. There's gas lines,
as inflation, there's you know, on a smaller level, they come.
My father arrives in the summer of sam and in
New York City and the riots and the blackout and
all the stuff, and he's like, WHOA, did I make
a mistake? And then of course Reagan just a few
years later and turns it all around. And I have
a brother named Ronald, and you know, the whole thing.
(18:13):
But I have to say that the last few years,
even though I've always been an American optimist, also I
saw how fast things to get bad and how fast
that slide into that terrible time can happen. I also
feel optimistic now, but it's definitely been for the first
time in my entire life. The last few years I
felt true pestimism about America. I'm not quite sure that
(18:37):
we could turn it around. And definitely feel better after
the beginning of the Trump presidency, I think so.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Yeah, I mean, we don't have wron o' reagan anymore,
and I don't know if there are any wrong o Reagan's
in our future. But yeah, I think that the damage
was serious and deep and potentially.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Long term.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
And you know, I hope President Trump is going to
turn this around. I don't think he has a lot
of time, so I hope he uses that time wisely
and selectively and not vindictively, because I think you can
get massively distracted in Washington by going personal rather than
focusing on serious policy.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
But yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
It's uh, I don't know if it's a you know,
it's a it's a new dawn, but it certainly is
an opportunity to reverse some of the the egregious policies
of Obama.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
And then Biden.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
What do you worry about?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
What do I worry about? Yeah, long list.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
I think these days I'm worried mostly at least in
the short term, about Iran's nuclear weapons program, and I
ran a nuclear breakouts. I mean, I think in recent months,
you know, these Raelis have done tremendous damage to Iran's
Axis of quote resistance, which I call the Axis of Misery,
which is their proxy networks. So, you know, remarkable turnaround
by the Israeli defense forces since October seventh, and I
(19:57):
think today the Lam of Republic is vulnerable. Its air
defenses have been destroyed, Zabala has been severely degraded, Hamasis
and eviscerated. So it seems to me possible, I don't
know if likely, but possible that supremely early common Ae
decides this is the time to develop nuclear weapons, to
create a nuclear re turrent. So I think twenty twenty
(20:19):
five can be a bit will be a big year
on the Iran side.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
That's short term. Long term, I'm I'm very worried.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
About China and the Chinese Communist Party, you know, I
mean that the Iranians are aren't capable of fundamentally transforming
the world in ways that would be.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
You know, really dangerous.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
The Chinese Communist Party is, and I think that's the
you know, the generational struggle.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
You mentioned you came from the Soviet Union.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
You know, I did Soviet studies when I was at
McGill University, and I remember.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
What were they pro Well, that's right, I mean, that's
a great question.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Well they were whatever they were they were wrong, because
I remember that the morning that the berl And wall
came down, we were all sitting in class and our
professor so Studies, came in and she said, well, everybody
get up and bring your textbook and throw it into
the scarbage can. And we all said, well, we just
spent a lot of money in our textbook. Well what's
going on now? Of course a lot of your listeners
(21:17):
won't remember these days, but this was pre internet, pre smartphone.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
I mean, we were just sitting in class. We had
no idea what was going on.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
And she said, the Berlin walls just came down, and
everything in that textbook was wrong, and much of what
I taught you was wrong. And it was sort of
that moment really stayed with me, both because it was,
you know, the end of this evil empire that I
had grown up with, or grown up not like you under,
but certainly worried about. But now I think there's another
(21:47):
evil empire, and there's an access of resistance and an
access of aggression with IRA in China, Russia and North Korea,
who are in an alliance against democracies, and I think
that's a danger as alliance and we're going to be
struggling against an alliance, certainly in our lifetimes.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
So I have a question. Maybe maybe this answers obvious,
but you know, I always kind of had this idea
that if a country opened up a little bit to
the west and it had McDonald's and it kind of
let in some of our ideas, that that country would
automatically move towards freedom and move towards democracy. North Korea
obviously hasn't done that, but Russia and China have. I mean,
(22:28):
you know, there's still obviously totalitarianism. I still have family
in Russia. I know all about it. But they you know,
they have McDonald's. So why didn't it work?
Speaker 4 (22:37):
It doesn't work because I think, you know, there's this
there was this delusion that you can seduce the hard
men of Moscow and Beijing and Tehran by flatting them
with cash, integrating them into the global economy and into.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Responsible global stakeholders.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Used to be that, you know, that phrase, which and
sort of McDonald's was kind of the personification of the
economy of that. But I think what that misses is
that these are hard men, and they are mostly men,
and they're men with ideas, with ideology in the case
of the Islamic Republic theology. And I think as Americans
we're kind of like the material girl, right, Like we
(23:14):
think that everybody, everybody just wants to have like nice things,
live a nice life, go.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
On nice though, Like, well it seems like that should
be true.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
It should be true.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
But you know what we're also we're also men and
women of ideas, right, I mean, the founding ideas of
the of the American Republic are profound, and we all
believe very strongly in them, and certainly a lot of
brave men and women have fought and given their lives
to defend the American Republic and our constitution. Well, you know,
they are also people of ideas, and their ideas are
(23:46):
not materially's life liberty in the procy of happiness is
not what the Mullas and Iran believe is the founding
principle of the Islamic Republic. And neither Vladimir Putin nor
Sijingping right, they have ideas, and their ideas or conquer
regions and conquer the world. And they want not just money,
but they want power, they want influence, and they want
(24:08):
their ideas to dominate the world.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
I think we engage in mirror imaging and believing.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
That our values and our ideals and our aspirations or
what they want and what many people want.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
And I think that's that's proven to be a delusion.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Well, my thinking on it is our ideas are objectively better.
They lead to better outcomes. Like look at the state,
you know, the state of our country versus the state
of their countries. Look at the level of wealth in
our country for everybody versus the level of wealth there.
How Come they don't have that same I get you.
It's definitely just bad ideas lead to bad outcomes, and
(24:47):
you hold on to those bad ideas. But the Berlin
Wall fell, how come we're not seeing that same change
in these places that did kind of open up. And again,
Iran and North Korea are completely different examples. Am I thinking?
But I would think that Russia and China would lean
in a little bit more to the ideas that are
clearly better.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Well again, I mean, you know Russia better than I do.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
And I think there's always been, well, there's always been
the struggle within the Russian society, within the Russian soul.
Do we lean west? Do we lean east? Are we
European country. Are we an Asian country? And certainly you
know China is a I mean it was an empire.
It's a old historic society.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
And they have a completely different view of the world
and view of themselves. In the word, they call themselves
the Middle Kingdom, right, when they mean the Middle Kingdom,
they mean the middle of the earth. Right. Their map
doesn't look like our map, and their map they are
the center of the world. And so I think Putin
wants to recreate the Russian empire, Xijian Ping who wants
to re establish the Chinese empire. And they're also motivated
(25:54):
by grievances, right.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Both both Putin and she believe that they have been
wrongly done by by the West and they want to
rectify that and re establish their power. And it is
about power at the end of the day. It's about power,
and it's about the spread of their ideas. You know,
they may be very wealthy, and they may be happy
to try to create wealth as an instrument of power
(26:17):
and control, but they're not material girls.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
They should be they should do what advice would you
give your sixteen year old self.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Wow, my sixteen year old self, get married early, have
more kids. I think I would also tell my sixteen
year old self to come to Washington sooner.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
You know, it's not a popular answer.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
No, I imagine, so, but you know, come here sooner, get involved.
I came here at thirty five, and you know that
was it was great.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
I'd done a lot of interesting things before that.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
But I think to come here sooner, get involved, you know,
get experience, work on the hill, work in the administration,
you know, serve in the military. I think incredible experience
for young people here. And I think the greatest people
that I've met in America are people that have been
that have served in the military. They're just remarkable people.
(27:13):
And I think that's true in other countries like Israel,
as we know.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
So, yeah, my sixteen year old self, get to get
to Washington sooner.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
I love that. So and us here with your best
tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.
And maybe it is to be material girls.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Yeah, I mean it sounds cliche, I think, was it.
I don't even remember it was Oscar Wilde or Marc Dwayne.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
I don even remember.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
You know, love your job, never work a day in
your life. I mean, I think that's the end of
the day has really been a great reward in my life.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Is I like tech, I like bench capital.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
It was interesting, but it was really when I was
thirty five, came to Washington, got involved in policy issues
and national security and defending democracies, that I found a
life of real meaning and real purpose. You know, I
get up every morning and it's very rare that I'm dragging.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Myself to work.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
It's usually with a sense of excitement, foreboding for sure,
but a sense of excitement and passion for what I do.
Do that don't necessarily pursue the material girl lifestyle, but
a lot of jobs that one can take.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
We'll give you a lot of money, but very little meaning.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Some of the best jobs may not give you as
much money, but butt a whole lot more meaning and
at the end of the day.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Short life. And I think a meaningful life is more
important than a material one.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
I love it. He is Mark Dabowitz, Chief executive of
Defense of Democracies. Thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Mark, Thanks so much, Carol, thanks so much for joining
us on the Carol Markoich Show. Subscribe wherever you get
your podcasts.
Host
Karol Markowicz
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