In this episode, Fred Dicker, a veteran journalist, shares insights on the state of journalism, cultural trends, and the divide in American society. He discusses the impact of history on current events and the challenges faced by the journalism profession. The conversation also delves into the cultural divide, the role of academia, and the loss of faith in society. The Karol Markowicz Show is part of the Clay travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Monday & Thursday.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Marcowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
The big news last week was that Donald Trump was
found guilty in his New York court case. I'm not
going to get into the politics of it, and you
can listen to legal discussions elsewhere, though I will say
that I think it's a complete travesty, an invention of law,
(00:30):
and I just all around don't like it. But I
want to talk about something else. I heard a lot
of people say they were having a hard time processing
what had happened.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I had friends.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Reach out, some of them truly non political, to say
their faith in our systems have been shaken. One friend
said she is afraid in a show about living better,
I think a lot about how to process things. Look,
I am deeply imperfect, prone to check Twitter right before
(01:02):
going to sleep, just to piss myself off, and then
struggle to shut down.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
So one thing I would say.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
For me and for all of you, when the news
gets to be too.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Much, you have to unplug from it.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
No, you can't ignore what's going on in the world, obviously,
but it does no one any good for you to
work yourself up at eleven pm. You're not saving the
Republic by doom scrolling. Someone is going to be wrong
on the Internet, and you have to let it go.
I have to let it go. The other thing that
I have joked about on here that I don't do
(01:37):
is work out. I think the time has come, friends,
I need a physical outlet. I travel so much and
I just don't move my body enough. I have to
make a change. I live in Florida. I love swimming.
I should be swimming every day, and I'm going to try.
Every day is a new opportunity to make changes. And
as we head into the slummer slummer summer, a slower season,
(02:00):
I'm going to do what I can to get myself
in a better headspace, but in a better physical space too.
I know that working out helps you sleep, for example,
So if you're having issues with your sleep, may I
suggest working out your body.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Let's do this together.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
So those are the things that I'm bad at doing,
and I know some of you are too. The thing
that I'm good at doing is seeing friends, reaching out
to friends, leaning on my husband when I feel bad
about something, redirecting myself. If you're feeling not great about
the world, ask yourself if you've spent time recently with
(02:41):
people you love and specifically people you like, people who
make you laugh, and if you haven't, then go do it.
Make the plans right now, set a date. A lot
of guests on my show also talk about their faith
and going to worship. I think that's always a good idea,
particularly in hard times.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Hang in there, keep things in perspective.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Don't let yourself wallow too hard. It helps me to
think about hard times in the past, that people have
lived through hard times, my own family has survived, and
look at my mostly happy and comfortable life and really try.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
To appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And look. If this all sounds crazy to you that
people get upset about what they see in the.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
News, good for you.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Truly be happy that you don't have stuff like that
impact you deeply. The truth is that most of the
time I brush off what's happening in the news too,
but I understand there are times that people just can't.
On a different note, I mentioned last episode that when
I hit the one year mark of this show in October,
(03:45):
I'm going to switch up my three standard questions. So
if you have ideas for what they should be, let
me know. I've already gotten some really good ones. The
email is Carol Maarkowitch Show at gmail dot com. It's
Ka ro L m Aowi CS and Charlie Zias and
Zebra Show at gmail dot com or just tweet at
(04:08):
me at X. Coming up next and interview with Freddicker
join us after the break. Hi, and welcome back to
the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is
Fred Dicker, the former longtime New York Post state editor
and Albany Bureau chief. Fred has worked at seven newspapers,
(04:29):
three TV stations, and several radio stations, and had his
own radio show live from the state capitol for twenty years.
His reporting won numerous journalism awards as he covered six governors,
watching what he describes as the fall and rise and
then fall again of New York. Hi, Fred, so nice
to have you on.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Great to be with you, Carol, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I haven't told this story on the show, but I
have told you this before. But I got my start
in politics working in public relations, and Fred was someone
that I had to call on a regular basis and
try to get him to write favorably about the candidates
that I was working on or the causes I was
working on. And I've told you this, but you were
(05:11):
the most terrifying call. You were the one that I
had to like psych myself up for.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
And I'm I mean, I'm pretty brave. I'm not that
you know.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I could talk to people no problem, but you were like, Okay, okay,
I have to call Fred Dicker today.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
So how do you feel about that?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Let me say you were always charming, but you know,
like a lot of political reporters, I was always very
skeptical of public relations people. I knew what you were
up to, and yeah, you did. I do not respect
the business, but it's not something that I think a
lot of reporters really feel comfortable dealing with. But you know,
to the extent that you were offering me news, I
was interested in it, But to the extent that you
(05:51):
were so soaping me not so much.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Did you always want to be in journalism?
Speaker 3 (05:56):
No. When I finally decided what I wanted to be,
it was to be an historian. Carol and I started
out got a master's degree in history. I was going
for a doctorate. It was in the late sixties, very
crazy times, and I quit. I had been the editor
of a radical newspaper, which I think will be of
interest to some people since my politics or anything but
(06:18):
radical these days. And got a job in the Holy
Oak Transcript in Massachusetts now defunct, then in Della Hampshire
Gazette the Springfield Union. And as I got into journalism,
I realized that I was sort of pursuing history in
the present rather than looking back to the past. So
fairly early on, Carol, I decided, as you may have
as well, that being a journalist was my calling, and
(06:40):
I did do it for some fifty plus years, I
mean a long long time.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
What would you have done if not that? Like, what
would be plan be? For friend Ticker?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I think it would have been to be an academic,
although I'm very grateful, especially these days when you look
at academia, that that didn't happen. But I was pretty
serious about being an historian, and I still read history
very intensely to this day. Really do think of it
as a form of journalism, but you know, much more
reflective than the immediate need of a journalist to get
(07:10):
things into print very quickly. So I think I would
have been historian.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Interesting do you look at history and see sort of
cultural trends repeating? Is it. I mean, I know history repeats,
but do you see like cultural movements and problems coming
up again and again.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean we see going on in campuses
these days is very reminiscent of the late nineteen sixties
and arguably reminiscent of the nineteen thirties, when serious risks
in the culture and ideologies of a nation really tore
people apart. Obviously key differences today. It seems to me
(07:48):
the students are much dumber than they were back in sixties.
The education quality is much lower. Any aspective reality of
the Vietnam War, which was touching all our lives, especially
young men back then, compared to the horror of Hamas
which so many of these students now seem to be
subscribing to. It is very great. But nevertheless, I mean,
(08:09):
I think young people like to have sort of a
rout of passage or a trial of the passage, and
that's what a lot of them are going through these days. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I see the causes as really kind of mirrored, because
in the sixties they were wanting to end violence, and
I think here they're really celebrating violence and seeing it
as a goal. Like the fact that you know, glory
to the martyrs is something that they say or globalize
the Intifada.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
This is not end the war, this has spread the war.
This is bring the war elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And so it's interesting because I think I would have
probably been on the side of the nineteen sixties protesters.
I think I would have thought, oh, let's you know,
let's end this war that's clearly not going anywhere. But
the ones today are completely different to me.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Me know, back in the sixties there was the weather Underground,
which was violent and killed people, blew up buildings, and
that was here in America. But it was a fringe group.
And I think today these pro Homeboss demonstrators on campus,
the anti Semitic demonstrators, are also a fringe group of
what arguably could be a legitimate movement challenging some of
the assumptions of Israel's actions or Israel's policies. But it's
(09:24):
a small group that's gone their tremendous attention and sent
the administrators of these colleges back on their heels. If
anybody is really to blame for a lot of what's
going on, I think it's the academic administrator.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Oh absolutely, I fully blame the colleges for what's going on.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
For one thing, just you know, the.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Language of these protesters as things that they learned in class.
I mean, you could see it happening, you know, all
the Marxist classes that they take, and all the arguments
that they get force fed by their professors, and the
fact that the administrators have spent you know, decades telling
us about how, you know, these microaggressions are really expulsion
(10:07):
level offenses. But now obviously they've taken a completely different tax.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I blame I blame the administrators. I don't so much
as much blame the kind of dumb young kids who
are protesting.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
But a lot of it is the legacy of the
sixties in terms of who became academics, who became professors,
who were teaching these young people. What I also see,
as I'm sure you do as well. Other causes the
lack of faith. The loss of belief in God, I
think is a real significant event. Not arguing that people
should believe in God, but when you don't have a
religious belief, you're looking for something else to believe in.
(10:43):
So whether it's environmentalism or sexual identity or in this case,
hostility to Israel. I think people are young people, excuse
me trying to define themselves as part of the larger movement.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I absolutely that loss of God, I think is what
they're looking to replace. What would you say is our
largest cultural kind of problem that we're facing.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Other than the loss of faith in some meaning to
our lives. That's pretty big in and of itself. I think,
you know, we see it in Europe too, but it's
especially painful in America, which was founded, however without however,
many faults on a desire to give people as much
freedom as possible. And that is the fifty to fifty
divide in our nation today, the risk that's so great,
(11:28):
dividing people by education, by economic class, by city versus country,
and nobody really has an answer to it and to
solve it. That is, and when you look at our leadership,
the failure of leadership. Whether you like Biden or like Trump,
I think almost everyone agrees that we wish we had
two different candidates for president, and because neither one seems
(11:50):
to offer much hope to bridge this gap, bridge divide.
So I think we've got terrible problems with no easy
solution on the horizon. I wish I could see one.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
But I know, do you still do you think we
are that fifty to fifty country?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Because sometimes I think we're closer together than it seems.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I think that maybe what we see in the news
or in social media is.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Not the whole picture. And I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Maybe I just feel secure in Florida and feel like, oh,
everybody agrees with me.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Well, we love Florida. You know I do as well,
But I don't know. Look, I read the polls. I'm
going to reading polls as I think anyone is, because
I've been dealing with them for so many years and
dealing with politicians, and privately, the politicians see that kind
of a divide, Carol. There are very many of them
are thoughtful once, and some of them are thoughtful, are
very worried. It may be sixty forty, maybe fifty five,
(12:42):
forty five, but there are really fundamental divides amongst the
American people, whether it's on foreign policy, abortion, open borders.
I think on things like criminal justice, the divide is
not there, and that's going to act the Republicans. But
on other matters, I see snobbery and elitism on the
(13:02):
part of any Democrats and I see an anger on
a part of a lot of working class conservatives, working
class Republicans feeling that they're looked down upon by the
big city Democrats. And I think they are.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Markowitz Show. So but like on
something like open borders, for example, are we that far apart?
Like I don't really think that most Democrats even are
for open borders, which is why Democrats don't run on that.
They run on I will fix the border issue and
(13:36):
I'll make a path to immigration, and they kind of
have to massage what they say. And I think you
see that in both parties, where you know, sometimes they
can't say what they actually stand for. But U the
open borders on Democrats, I think they can't actually say
on four open borders and be elected. Even Bernie Sanders
is against open borders.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Sarah, think you're one hundred percent right on that open
borders and criminal justice. Not so much on abortion. But
abortion still is a divisive issue that's hurting the Republican
But you're right about the Democrats saying away from open
borders and certainly not saying they're pro criminal even though
in their policies. They definitely are.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, that's exactly it.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
The policies end up being what they're actually for, but
they can't actually run on that or say the words.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
So I think that's why Trump, with all his problems,
is leading Biden in virtually all the polics, I mean
the Republicans. Donald Trump really has most of the issues
on his side in terms of what the American people want,
and that's why Biden keeps attacking him personally and seeks,
in my view and probably your view too, to have
him criminally convicted to try to get him out of
(14:41):
the way that way, because they think they're losing the issues.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I mean that's definitely how I'm seeing what's playing out
right now. So You've had this long, amazing career.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
You know, you've.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Terrified me in my youth. I think that's an accomplishment.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Do you feel like you made it well?
Speaker 3 (15:01):
I think I was very successful at what I did.
I mean, I emerged I think as a significant journalist
at the New York State capital. I had some national standing.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Not quite up to your left, Carrol, but.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I think I did well. I'll tell you, though, it's
a sad situation in a way, I got into journalism
by accident, before Watergate, before the Pentagon papers, and then
once those things occurred, being in journalism was something really
to be proud of, not that I wasn't to begin with,
but it took on a cachet thanks to Woodward and Bernstein,
which until recently was still with it. So I was
(15:35):
proud to be a journalist. I felt I was doing
public service. I was revealing to people with the politicians
were trying to hide, exposing bad things, telling good stories
when they were good stories to be told. But in
recent years I've really had regrets because of what's happened
to our profession, to their journalism business. I think deservedly so.
(15:55):
Now many journalists, as a result of the Internet and
other things that we could talk about, but many journalists
are looked down upon by the public, and for a
good reason that they're compromised. They're working for news organizations
that are carrying water for one side or another. I say,
I'm still proud to have worked for the New York
Post and for Rupert Murdoch's publications. I with Fox five
(16:19):
in New York for a while. Now, of course, you
worked with the New York Post. I think about what
this country would be like without Fox News, without the
Wall Street Journal, without the New York Post, it would
be far worse in terms of disparate views to Murdoch's
great threatend. In my view, there's an alternative voice out there,
and you're so living proof of it. To some degree,
(16:40):
I was as well, right.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I think I always hear from people in other countries,
like for Israel, for example, that they don't have a
conservative paper, that it just doesn't exist, Like journalism just
stripps leftward and that's where it stays. How would you like,
what would you advise to somebody in college right now
who wanted to get into journalism. Do you still think
you would say do it?
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Well? I would be reluctant to advise them and do it.
But if they had the great passion to do it, Carol,
I would advise them one critical thing, don't take any
journalism courses. I don't think there's anything. I never took
any these schools of journalism. I think you can study history,
political science, sociology, serious subjects. To me, journalism is in
(17:24):
college is like a make work project to give failed
reporters or failed editors a place to go. But it's
a tough tough thing. I mean, what the internet has
done to journalism we both know, you know, I think
suce the year twenty and fifty percent of all print
journalism jobs have been lost. And it used to be
that the big newspapers really had clout and could get
(17:48):
the politicians to answer questions for the public. We just
saw that with the New York Times, where they even
in public to its credit to the Times of the
credit critical of Biden. You know they're going to endorse
because he won't get interviews. But I mean, it used
to be that you could not do an interview with
the New York Times, of the Wall Street Journal, of
the Washington Post. And now these politicians all over the place,
(18:10):
mainly though in the Democratic Party, but all over the
place are refusing to respond to the press. And after all,
who else can ask questions for the public other than
the press, right?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
I think it would be wise for this new class
of journalists. I think if they were taught maybe more
practical uses like how to pitch and who to talk
to and how to find, you know, somebody's information. And
I think that there a drift in the practical center.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Cal right, right, because you just tell a young reporter,
this is what you this is what you ask, and
if you have any problems with them, maybe you should
be in another business. That's the way they used to
talk to me. I mean, you know, we used to
have people who were men who had been drafted. They
were in the arm they were in the army, they
knew how to handle guns. They weren't afraid of guns.
There was a metro transition for a lot of young people.
(18:58):
Well women too, but not as much as for men.
Will we had the draft and certainly the Vietnam War,
so people had their trial or trial by fire by
going through their nineteen twenty twenty one to twenty two
years of age experiences. Today it's too soft for a
great many people. I think you would agree. And yeah,
you've got these very immature people. I mean you see
(19:20):
them in colleges that becoming journalists, and they're like afraid
of their own shadow. They haven't gone through the travails
of life the way I think my generation did. Right.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I mean, I think million dollar idea for you, the
Fred Dicker journalism boot Camp, I think I think I
would highly highly recommend that to people.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I think you could. You could really teach this.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
This latest generation of young journalists how to actually do it.
I think that you'd be amazing at that.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Well, thank you, Carol. Other than wanting to have lunch
with you at saying ambrums again, palm beach, I don't
think I want to have too much of Jurgis was
speaking more. That was a lovely lench.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, I agree, that was really really fun.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
I think you shouldn't leave Florida personally.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
But here we are, so end here with your best
tip for my listeners on how they can improve their
lives and be more like Fred Dicker.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
First of all, if you have the interests, I say,
take up fishing. It's a very relaxing, fun thing to do.
But on a most serious note, I would say, try
to and you've lived this in your life and you
do right now, Carol. Try to have a strong family
because in an atomized world that we're living in now,
family could be really really important. That is really important.
(20:33):
And just finally, I'd say, try to dedicate your life
to something meaningful and not something crazy. But try to
make our society healthy again. Smell right now, value the truth,
try to go out there and be friendly with people
if you can, and stand up and speak up for
American values. I mean, American values really are something unique,
(20:53):
as you know from the Soviet Union, and sadly, so
many young people have not been taught about the is
it a uniqueness in America. They've just been taught about
the negatives that really, to me are just the footnote
of the nation's history.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I love that. Thank you so much, Fred, loved having
you on. He is Fred Dicker. Look him up.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
His work has been just amazing and really groundbreaking. And
you know, I'm in for the journalist boot camp, Fred,
whenever you want to.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Start that fair enough to be in Florida.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Thanks so much for joining us on The Carol Marcowitz Show.
Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Marcowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
The big news last week was that Donald Trump was
found guilty in his New York court case. I'm not
going to get into the politics of it, and you
can listen to legal discussions elsewhere, though I will say
that I think it's a complete travesty, an invention of law,
(00:30):
and I just all around don't like it. But I
want to talk about something else. I heard a lot
of people say they were having a hard time processing
what had happened.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I had friends.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Reach out, some of them truly non political, to say
their faith in our systems have been shaken. One friend
said she is afraid in a show about living better,
I think a lot about how to process things. Look,
I am deeply imperfect, prone to check Twitter right before
(01:02):
going to sleep, just to piss myself off, and then
struggle to shut down.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
So one thing I would say.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
For me and for all of you, when the news
gets to be too.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Much, you have to unplug from it.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
No, you can't ignore what's going on in the world, obviously,
but it does no one any good for you to
work yourself up at eleven pm. You're not saving the
Republic by doom scrolling. Someone is going to be wrong
on the Internet, and you have to let it go.
I have to let it go. The other thing that
I have joked about on here that I don't do
(01:37):
is work out. I think the time has come, friends,
I need a physical outlet. I travel so much and
I just don't move my body enough. I have to
make a change. I live in Florida. I love swimming.
I should be swimming every day, and I'm going to try.
Every day is a new opportunity to make changes. And
as we head into the slummer slummer summer, a slower season,
(02:00):
I'm going to do what I can to get myself
in a better headspace, but in a better physical space too.
I know that working out helps you sleep, for example,
So if you're having issues with your sleep, may I
suggest working out your body.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Let's do this together.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
So those are the things that I'm bad at doing,
and I know some of you are too. The thing
that I'm good at doing is seeing friends, reaching out
to friends, leaning on my husband when I feel bad
about something, redirecting myself. If you're feeling not great about
the world, ask yourself if you've spent time recently with
(02:41):
people you love and specifically people you like, people who
make you laugh, and if you haven't, then go do it.
Make the plans right now, set a date. A lot
of guests on my show also talk about their faith
and going to worship. I think that's always a good idea,
particularly in hard times.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Hang in there, keep things in perspective.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Don't let yourself wallow too hard. It helps me to
think about hard times in the past, that people have
lived through hard times, my own family has survived, and
look at my mostly happy and comfortable life and really try.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
To appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And look. If this all sounds crazy to you that
people get upset about what they see in the.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
News, good for you.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Truly be happy that you don't have stuff like that
impact you deeply. The truth is that most of the
time I brush off what's happening in the news too,
but I understand there are times that people just can't.
On a different note, I mentioned last episode that when
I hit the one year mark of this show in October,
(03:45):
I'm going to switch up my three standard questions. So
if you have ideas for what they should be, let
me know. I've already gotten some really good ones. The
email is Carol Maarkowitch Show at gmail dot com. It's
Ka ro L m Aowi CS and Charlie Zias and
Zebra Show at gmail dot com or just tweet at
(04:08):
me at X. Coming up next and interview with Freddicker
join us after the break. Hi, and welcome back to
the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is
Fred Dicker, the former longtime New York Post state editor
and Albany Bureau chief. Fred has worked at seven newspapers,
(04:29):
three TV stations, and several radio stations, and had his
own radio show live from the state capitol for twenty years.
His reporting won numerous journalism awards as he covered six governors,
watching what he describes as the fall and rise and
then fall again of New York. Hi, Fred, so nice
to have you on.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Great to be with you, Carol, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I haven't told this story on the show, but I
have told you this before. But I got my start
in politics working in public relations, and Fred was someone
that I had to call on a regular basis and
try to get him to write favorably about the candidates
that I was working on or the causes I was
working on. And I've told you this, but you were
(05:11):
the most terrifying call. You were the one that I
had to like psych myself up for.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
And I'm I mean, I'm pretty brave. I'm not that
you know.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I could talk to people no problem, but you were like, Okay, okay,
I have to call Fred Dicker today.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
So how do you feel about that?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Let me say you were always charming, but you know,
like a lot of political reporters, I was always very
skeptical of public relations people. I knew what you were
up to, and yeah, you did. I do not respect
the business, but it's not something that I think a
lot of reporters really feel comfortable dealing with. But you know,
to the extent that you were offering me news, I
was interested in it, But to the extent that you
(05:51):
were so soaping me not so much.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Did you always want to be in journalism?
Speaker 3 (05:56):
No. When I finally decided what I wanted to be,
it was to be an historian. Carol and I started
out got a master's degree in history. I was going
for a doctorate. It was in the late sixties, very
crazy times, and I quit. I had been the editor
of a radical newspaper, which I think will be of
interest to some people since my politics or anything but
(06:18):
radical these days. And got a job in the Holy
Oak Transcript in Massachusetts now defunct, then in Della Hampshire
Gazette the Springfield Union. And as I got into journalism,
I realized that I was sort of pursuing history in
the present rather than looking back to the past. So
fairly early on, Carol, I decided, as you may have
as well, that being a journalist was my calling, and
(06:40):
I did do it for some fifty plus years, I
mean a long long time.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
What would you have done if not that? Like, what
would be plan be? For friend Ticker?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I think it would have been to be an academic,
although I'm very grateful, especially these days when you look
at academia, that that didn't happen. But I was pretty
serious about being an historian, and I still read history
very intensely to this day. Really do think of it
as a form of journalism, but you know, much more
reflective than the immediate need of a journalist to get
(07:10):
things into print very quickly. So I think I would
have been historian.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Interesting do you look at history and see sort of
cultural trends repeating? Is it. I mean, I know history repeats,
but do you see like cultural movements and problems coming
up again and again.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean we see going on in campuses
these days is very reminiscent of the late nineteen sixties
and arguably reminiscent of the nineteen thirties, when serious risks
in the culture and ideologies of a nation really tore
people apart. Obviously key differences today. It seems to me
(07:48):
the students are much dumber than they were back in sixties.
The education quality is much lower. Any aspective reality of
the Vietnam War, which was touching all our lives, especially
young men back then, compared to the horror of Hamas
which so many of these students now seem to be
subscribing to. It is very great. But nevertheless, I mean,
(08:09):
I think young people like to have sort of a
rout of passage or a trial of the passage, and
that's what a lot of them are going through these days. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I see the causes as really kind of mirrored, because
in the sixties they were wanting to end violence, and
I think here they're really celebrating violence and seeing it
as a goal. Like the fact that you know, glory
to the martyrs is something that they say or globalize
the Intifada.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
This is not end the war, this has spread the war.
This is bring the war elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And so it's interesting because I think I would have
probably been on the side of the nineteen sixties protesters.
I think I would have thought, oh, let's you know,
let's end this war that's clearly not going anywhere. But
the ones today are completely different to me.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Me know, back in the sixties there was the weather Underground,
which was violent and killed people, blew up buildings, and
that was here in America. But it was a fringe group.
And I think today these pro Homeboss demonstrators on campus,
the anti Semitic demonstrators, are also a fringe group of
what arguably could be a legitimate movement challenging some of
the assumptions of Israel's actions or Israel's policies. But it's
(09:24):
a small group that's gone their tremendous attention and sent
the administrators of these colleges back on their heels. If
anybody is really to blame for a lot of what's
going on, I think it's the academic administrator.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Oh absolutely, I fully blame the colleges for what's going on.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
For one thing, just you know, the.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Language of these protesters as things that they learned in class.
I mean, you could see it happening, you know, all
the Marxist classes that they take, and all the arguments
that they get force fed by their professors, and the
fact that the administrators have spent you know, decades telling
us about how, you know, these microaggressions are really expulsion
(10:07):
level offenses. But now obviously they've taken a completely different tax.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I blame I blame the administrators. I don't so much
as much blame the kind of dumb young kids who
are protesting.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
But a lot of it is the legacy of the
sixties in terms of who became academics, who became professors,
who were teaching these young people. What I also see,
as I'm sure you do as well. Other causes the
lack of faith. The loss of belief in God, I
think is a real significant event. Not arguing that people
should believe in God, but when you don't have a
religious belief, you're looking for something else to believe in.
(10:43):
So whether it's environmentalism or sexual identity or in this case,
hostility to Israel. I think people are young people, excuse
me trying to define themselves as part of the larger movement.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I absolutely that loss of God, I think is what
they're looking to replace. What would you say is our
largest cultural kind of problem that we're facing.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Other than the loss of faith in some meaning to
our lives. That's pretty big in and of itself. I think,
you know, we see it in Europe too, but it's
especially painful in America, which was founded, however without however,
many faults on a desire to give people as much
freedom as possible. And that is the fifty to fifty
divide in our nation today, the risk that's so great,
(11:28):
dividing people by education, by economic class, by city versus country,
and nobody really has an answer to it and to
solve it. That is, and when you look at our leadership,
the failure of leadership. Whether you like Biden or like Trump,
I think almost everyone agrees that we wish we had
two different candidates for president, and because neither one seems
(11:50):
to offer much hope to bridge this gap, bridge divide.
So I think we've got terrible problems with no easy
solution on the horizon. I wish I could see one.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
But I know, do you still do you think we
are that fifty to fifty country?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Because sometimes I think we're closer together than it seems.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I think that maybe what we see in the news
or in social media is.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Not the whole picture. And I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Maybe I just feel secure in Florida and feel like, oh,
everybody agrees with me.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Well, we love Florida. You know I do as well,
But I don't know. Look, I read the polls. I'm
going to reading polls as I think anyone is, because
I've been dealing with them for so many years and
dealing with politicians, and privately, the politicians see that kind
of a divide, Carol. There are very many of them
are thoughtful once, and some of them are thoughtful, are
very worried. It may be sixty forty, maybe fifty five,
(12:42):
forty five, but there are really fundamental divides amongst the
American people, whether it's on foreign policy, abortion, open borders.
I think on things like criminal justice, the divide is
not there, and that's going to act the Republicans. But
on other matters, I see snobbery and elitism on the
(13:02):
part of any Democrats and I see an anger on
a part of a lot of working class conservatives, working
class Republicans feeling that they're looked down upon by the
big city Democrats. And I think they are.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Markowitz Show. So but like on
something like open borders, for example, are we that far apart?
Like I don't really think that most Democrats even are
for open borders, which is why Democrats don't run on that.
They run on I will fix the border issue and
(13:36):
I'll make a path to immigration, and they kind of
have to massage what they say. And I think you
see that in both parties, where you know, sometimes they
can't say what they actually stand for. But U the
open borders on Democrats, I think they can't actually say
on four open borders and be elected. Even Bernie Sanders
is against open borders.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Sarah, think you're one hundred percent right on that open
borders and criminal justice. Not so much on abortion. But
abortion still is a divisive issue that's hurting the Republican
But you're right about the Democrats saying away from open
borders and certainly not saying they're pro criminal even though
in their policies. They definitely are.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, that's exactly it.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
The policies end up being what they're actually for, but
they can't actually run on that or say the words.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
So I think that's why Trump, with all his problems,
is leading Biden in virtually all the polics, I mean
the Republicans. Donald Trump really has most of the issues
on his side in terms of what the American people want,
and that's why Biden keeps attacking him personally and seeks,
in my view and probably your view too, to have
him criminally convicted to try to get him out of
(14:41):
the way that way, because they think they're losing the issues.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I mean that's definitely how I'm seeing what's playing out
right now. So You've had this long, amazing career.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
You know, you've.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Terrified me in my youth. I think that's an accomplishment.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Do you feel like you made it well?
Speaker 3 (15:01):
I think I was very successful at what I did.
I mean, I emerged I think as a significant journalist
at the New York State capital. I had some national standing.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Not quite up to your left, Carrol, but.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I think I did well. I'll tell you, though, it's
a sad situation in a way, I got into journalism
by accident, before Watergate, before the Pentagon papers, and then
once those things occurred, being in journalism was something really
to be proud of, not that I wasn't to begin with,
but it took on a cachet thanks to Woodward and Bernstein,
which until recently was still with it. So I was
(15:35):
proud to be a journalist. I felt I was doing
public service. I was revealing to people with the politicians
were trying to hide, exposing bad things, telling good stories
when they were good stories to be told. But in
recent years I've really had regrets because of what's happened
to our profession, to their journalism business. I think deservedly so.
(15:55):
Now many journalists, as a result of the Internet and
other things that we could talk about, but many journalists
are looked down upon by the public, and for a
good reason that they're compromised. They're working for news organizations
that are carrying water for one side or another. I say,
I'm still proud to have worked for the New York
Post and for Rupert Murdoch's publications. I with Fox five
(16:19):
in New York for a while. Now, of course, you
worked with the New York Post. I think about what
this country would be like without Fox News, without the
Wall Street Journal, without the New York Post, it would
be far worse in terms of disparate views to Murdoch's
great threatend. In my view, there's an alternative voice out there,
and you're so living proof of it. To some degree,
(16:40):
I was as well, right.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I think I always hear from people in other countries,
like for Israel, for example, that they don't have a
conservative paper, that it just doesn't exist, Like journalism just
stripps leftward and that's where it stays. How would you like,
what would you advise to somebody in college right now
who wanted to get into journalism. Do you still think
you would say do it?
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Well? I would be reluctant to advise them and do it.
But if they had the great passion to do it, Carol,
I would advise them one critical thing, don't take any
journalism courses. I don't think there's anything. I never took
any these schools of journalism. I think you can study history,
political science, sociology, serious subjects. To me, journalism is in
(17:24):
college is like a make work project to give failed
reporters or failed editors a place to go. But it's
a tough tough thing. I mean, what the internet has
done to journalism we both know, you know, I think
suce the year twenty and fifty percent of all print
journalism jobs have been lost. And it used to be
that the big newspapers really had clout and could get
(17:48):
the politicians to answer questions for the public. We just
saw that with the New York Times, where they even
in public to its credit to the Times of the
credit critical of Biden. You know they're going to endorse
because he won't get interviews. But I mean, it used
to be that you could not do an interview with
the New York Times, of the Wall Street Journal, of
the Washington Post. And now these politicians all over the place,
(18:10):
mainly though in the Democratic Party, but all over the
place are refusing to respond to the press. And after all,
who else can ask questions for the public other than
the press, right?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
I think it would be wise for this new class
of journalists. I think if they were taught maybe more
practical uses like how to pitch and who to talk
to and how to find, you know, somebody's information. And
I think that there a drift in the practical center.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Cal right, right, because you just tell a young reporter,
this is what you this is what you ask, and
if you have any problems with them, maybe you should
be in another business. That's the way they used to
talk to me. I mean, you know, we used to
have people who were men who had been drafted. They
were in the arm they were in the army, they
knew how to handle guns. They weren't afraid of guns.
There was a metro transition for a lot of young people.
(18:58):
Well women too, but not as much as for men.
Will we had the draft and certainly the Vietnam War,
so people had their trial or trial by fire by
going through their nineteen twenty twenty one to twenty two
years of age experiences. Today it's too soft for a
great many people. I think you would agree. And yeah,
you've got these very immature people. I mean you see
(19:20):
them in colleges that becoming journalists, and they're like afraid
of their own shadow. They haven't gone through the travails
of life the way I think my generation did. Right.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I mean, I think million dollar idea for you, the
Fred Dicker journalism boot Camp, I think I think I
would highly highly recommend that to people.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I think you could. You could really teach this.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
This latest generation of young journalists how to actually do it.
I think that you'd be amazing at that.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Well, thank you, Carol. Other than wanting to have lunch
with you at saying ambrums again, palm beach, I don't
think I want to have too much of Jurgis was
speaking more. That was a lovely lench.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, I agree, that was really really fun.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
I think you shouldn't leave Florida personally.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
But here we are, so end here with your best
tip for my listeners on how they can improve their
lives and be more like Fred Dicker.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
First of all, if you have the interests, I say,
take up fishing. It's a very relaxing, fun thing to do.
But on a most serious note, I would say, try
to and you've lived this in your life and you
do right now, Carol. Try to have a strong family
because in an atomized world that we're living in now,
family could be really really important. That is really important.
(20:33):
And just finally, I'd say, try to dedicate your life
to something meaningful and not something crazy. But try to
make our society healthy again. Smell right now, value the truth,
try to go out there and be friendly with people
if you can, and stand up and speak up for
American values. I mean, American values really are something unique,
(20:53):
as you know from the Soviet Union, and sadly, so
many young people have not been taught about the is
it a uniqueness in America. They've just been taught about
the negatives that really, to me are just the footnote
of the nation's history.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I love that. Thank you so much, Fred, loved having
you on. He is Fred Dicker. Look him up.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
His work has been just amazing and really groundbreaking. And
you know, I'm in for the journalist boot camp, Fred,
whenever you want to.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Start that fair enough to be in Florida.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Thanks so much for joining us on The Carol Marcowitz Show.
Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
Host
Karol Markowicz
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!