June 10, 2024 • 29 mins
Kelly Maher joins Karol to discuss her year-long project of living off what she produced on her farm. They explore the challenges and lessons learned from this experience, as well as the importance of pursuing happiness and appreciating the beauty of life. Maher also highlights the need to overcome relativism and focus on good faith in our society. The also touch on topics such as the value of self-sufficiency, the pursuit of purpose, and the impact of technology on our perception of happiness. The Karol Markowicz Show is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Monday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
Over the weekend, Israel miraculously freed four of their hostages
held in Gaza since October seventh. It was very emotional.
One of them, Noah, is someone I've prayed for a
lot by name. She was the beautiful girl stolen that
(00:28):
day on the back of a motorbike as she reached
her hand out to her boyfriend who was on another
bike also being kidnapped. Her mom is dying of brain cancer,
and she wanted to see her daughter one more time
before she died, and now she will. It's amazing to
see her home. But I want to talk about something else.
(00:49):
On Saturday, when the rescues happened, I tweeted, the focus
will be on Noah, a beautiful young woman we all
watched get kidnapped by monsters on the back of a motorbike.
But the real miracle today is that al mug Andre
and Shlomi are home. No hostage deal ever included them.
It's women and children, the old, the sick, and these
(01:12):
young men, the oldest being forty, had no shot of
returning home. Hamas was never going to deal for them.
A rescue like this was their only hope. Men matter too,
and I'm so filled with joy that they are home.
A lot of people agreed with that. Some people felt
like they had to work really hard to misunderstand what
(01:32):
I was trying to say. I get why we put
men last, and the best men themselves demand to be
put last. I get why the hostage deals would be
for everyone, but these men, I just still find it crushing.
I don't like how men are treated in general. There
was a story in Bloomberg a few weeks ago that
(01:53):
really stayed with me. It was about a high school athlete,
a football star in Michigan, who got a flirty text
on his phone from a girl that he didn't know.
He engaged with her. She sent him a picture of
herself and then asked for a racy pick of him,
so he sent her a nude and it turned right
(02:14):
away into a sextortion scheme. There was no girl, and
that boy killed himself that same night. I shared this
story with so many friends who have teen boys, largely
because I don't think boys get the same warnings and
protection that girls do.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Look.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I have a daughter and two sons, and I see
what information they get about safety online and otherwise. Recently,
women were being led to believe that they would be
safer around a bear than a man. Meanwhile, boys are
supposed to know everything and be ready to be the
hero from a young age. Then they're treated like a danger.
(02:54):
And then an afterthought, the argument is, well, things have
always been great for men, It's okay to treat them
badly for a little while. I'm not okay with that.
In twenty eighteen, then Senator Kamala Harris asked Brett Kavanaugh,
can you think of any laws that give government the
power to make decisions about the male body? I wrote
(03:15):
in a New York Post column. Quote. The question was
in the midst of harris extensive grandstanding, so Kavanaugh didn't
have an immediate answer. But there's an obvious one, selective Service.
Every American male eighteen to twenty five has to register
with the Selective Service System, which maintains their information in
case of military conscription. If America is ever again in
(03:37):
a war and needs to reinstate the draft, those male
bodies will be the ones to go. End quote. But
obviously it's not just that men naturally die younger. More
men are in prison than women. Fewer men go to college.
Men overwhelmingly have the most dangerous jobs. Far more men
commit suicide. Most homeless are men. Over ninety eight percent
(04:00):
of the debts in the wars since nine to eleven
have been men, et cetera, et cetera. I don't have
the answer. And as I said at the start, the
best men are the ones who willingly do hard things
to protect us.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
All.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I'm just saying, maybe we can appreciate it just a
little bit more. Coming up next an interview with Kelly Maher.
Join us after the break.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Welcome back to the Carol Marcowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My
guest today is Kelly Maher. Kelly writes the subseac Real
Best Life and is an urban farmer at guild Gate
Farm in Colorado. She's an artisanal cheesemaker and mom of two.
Her new project is called Restoring Standards, and it's loosely
dedicated to getting crazy people out of politics.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Hi, Kelly, that was the best intro. I loved it. Hi, friend,
how are you are you good?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I'm so glad to have you on.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I was so excited when you invited me. I was like,
I saw it come in my email. I was like
immediately yes, immediately.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Yes, until you realized it was video also, and then
felt somewhat lied to.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
You know what, It's fine, okay. If there's somebody that
I will put on mascara for, it's you. Thank you,
thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
The best is you know.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
So I send you know, the informational email out and
I include in it the three like, you know, fairly
serious questions that I asked people in it, and there's
so many people that don't read that email at all.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And then when I'm like, hey.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
So what's the biggest cultural problem we face, They're like, what,
this is kind of a lot. So, you know, but
I've never had anybody, uh, you know, complain about.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
The video parts. So that was funny.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I enjoyed that personally, Like the gift that you used
all of it was really good.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yes, thank you, thank you. I I'm good for a
good gift exactly.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
So I knew you before your one year project of
oh yeah, so we're.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Going to get into that, but I want you tell us.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
But I feel like that's the time where I really
got to know you, Like that year where you did
what I.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
So, okay, I lived off of what we produced on
our tiny farm for an entire year. It was very fortunate.
I called it the homegrown Year. I was super fortunate
that a lot of it, uh it really dovetailed with COVID,
so it actually like was a decent way to do
a lockdown. Was trying to figure out if I could
(06:35):
feed myself, and it's it was one of those really
fascinating projects where you're like, hmm, people have been living
for the bulk of human history off of the food
that they produce. I am, you know, a soft like
Internet denizen, right, like, can I do this thing? And
(07:00):
so shortly after my first son was born, my husband
and I bought this small acreage property just north of Denver, Colorado.
And the night before we closed on the farm, I
found my my father passed away unexpectedly. So it was
(07:22):
like a very very traumatic move because I had a baby,
you know, such as life, but I had a baby,
my dad unexpectedly died, and then we moved to this acreage,
and then in short order I ended up pregnant with
my second and so it was just like a lot
very very fast. And then a little bit after that,
(07:44):
a mutual friend of ours, Guy Benson, got married in Napa,
and I had gotten a couple of goats and I'd
gotten a couple of chickens. So I'm out in Napa
at the wedding. My husband stayed home with the two kids,
so it's just me. Yeah, yeah, thanks. But so it
was just me with my friends and we would go
(08:04):
out to these fancy restaurants and I'd be like, oh,
this cheese is good, but my cheese that I make
at home. And so we like had just enough wine,
and I was just enough postpartum, you know, when you're
postpartum and you're like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
You're a little crazy.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
I mean more than a little, right, And so my
friend Emily looks at me and she's like, if you
love all the stuff you make on your farm so much,
why don't you live off of it for a year.
And I was like, that is a great idea.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Yeah, and then it's the kind of decision you should
make without your husband late at night.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I'm like, three bottles of wine, yes, exactly, exactly. But
you know, previous to that, I've had a long, a
long career in the thing that shall not be named
on this podcast, right, which is politics.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
We get into politics a little bit sometimes it just
generally a podcast about life.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
But yeah, exactly, and to the extent that politics is
like a portion of life. But I might had had
an entire career, a long career in politics and was
really dissatisfied as a lot of people I think have
been with politics. And so this was a really good
(09:20):
like reprieve for me to just take kind of a
deep breath and say, what is important here? What is
important about life? What is beautiful about life? And it's
actually made me, I think better able than to re
engage with all of the craziness that you and I
engage with all ry interesting.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Yeah, I mean I loved following that story. I sent
it to so many people who are like not you know,
not very online people, and I just like, for me,
the hardest part of what you did was the no
coffee Like that was I.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Could do the rest. I mean, I you know, in theory.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Did that eventually get some coffee?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I found it for it.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
I did. I did. So we we in NAPA at
this wedding. We made these rules right and they were like, okay,
late night rules for some crazy thing. Late night rolled
for this like manufactured challenge that I decided to do.
I love it, okay, yeah, as one as one does.
And actually like I think one of the last, one
(10:26):
of the last hurrahs. Like before the lockdowns started, you
and I were in Aruba.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, I mean the day before lockdown start, right.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
You and I were in Aruba and you're like drinking
and I'm telling you I'm going to live off my
farm for a.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Year and Catherine Ham's wedding.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah yeah yeah, and You're like, you're an insane person.
I'm like, yes, i am, I'm so excited.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
No, I'm sure I was in teen I'm sure I
love late night bad ideas, you know, not that that
was a bad idea, but just late night like a quirky,
quirky idea.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, I'm I'm all in.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
So then at one point I did guys radio show
and somebody in Hawaii was listening to it, and he
contacted me and offer to barter. The thing is like,
it's a very like what you can send agriculturally into
Hawaii is very narrow, because.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
I'm like, no.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
No, no, I had to be cheese. I can't. You can't
send anything with seeds, you can't send anything that's like
vegetable based there, and Also I learned about Hawaii random
sorry this is round, but like so at one point
there were chickens that were like accidentally introduced to Hawaii
and they naturally flourished there. So they just have like
(11:45):
wild slash formerly domesticated chickens just like running all over Hawaii,
and they are obnoxious and people just often just kill them.
And oh okay, so I.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
Thought gonna thought people like take them as pets, but
no killing any killing them and eating them sounds right.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Also literally just meat running around all the time, right,
and so yeah, it's it's just it's such a fascinating
they're very very strict about what can be introduced in
Hawaii and not because it's such a really like delicate ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
So you sent them cheese and they sent you coffee.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Fee grow yes, yes.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
And then I also because that was the thing, it
had to be bartered for something that somebody else grows personally.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
It can't be like sending you tasters choice like correct, I.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Had to I had to barter with a source, like
a creator of the thing. So a woman from California
sent me some avocados, which was like the highlight of
my year.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Yeah, our friend Alicia Krauss sent me lemons and come
qua oh so good.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
She grew I didn't know she grows lemons.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah, And I actually learned about preserving lemons. There's a
type of there's a type of lemon preservation that you
can do in salt that it's like like it's a
really delicious umami flavor. And I used those a lot.
It was. It was fascinating. It was such a weird year.
I had pigs. I had one pig who ended up
(13:26):
being very mean. And there is a reason by the
way that like the mob uses pigs as they're enforcers, like,
so they're very smart and super mean. And so my
pigs would go and they would take their food and
they would like spit it by the fence where the
chickens were, and then they would attack the chickens. It
was smart. Pigs are scary. Yeah, never never again on
the pigs. But it was great.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
It was.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
It was so bizarre, but it also was exactly what
I needed at that point in my life, right, I remember, yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
You remember following along and having it be you had
like it really was sort of like a reality show.
I mean it was like you had one night your
fridge with all your meat like disconnected or something or
like wasn't working.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Peril.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I felt so devastated for you.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Oh. I was like I was ready to cry, and
like I walked out. So yeah, okay, I'll set the scene.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
One of the things that was allowed was things that
my husband hunted, right, so he he's a big deer hunter.
So I had a deer in a freezer. Yeah, and
for some reason, the people who designed this freezer put
the on off switch like right on the bottom of
the freezer. And my little kids were like, oh, look
at this little switch, and do you know what they do?
(14:49):
Clicked it And I walked out and I just see
like blood on the floor of the garage, and I
was like but and I cried on the internet, which
is like I think I said I would never do right,
I was never gonna be with you.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
What is she going?
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, you know what. One of the things that that
horrifying incident. And I managed to save a lot of it.
I managed to freeze dry a lot of it. I
cooked a lot of it and then canned it, so
it actually ended up being very little waste. But like
the thing is with a challenge like that, if I failed, right,
like if I literally ran out of food, I can
(15:32):
then be like, oh I failed, and then I can.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Go to the st No one'd be like, no, no,
you said you.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Have to do that.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
Yeah, now you die, right, but your husband's updates were
Kelly is still alive or Kelly has not died yet, So.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yes, it hasn't starved to death.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Right and.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
It But it was really interesting to me because that
devastation that I felt about losing that meat made me
understand how humans have lived for most of human history,
Like they didn't even by the way, didn't even have
free zears. But you think about you know, you think about,
(16:19):
like what are the most base things in our society,
and it is like it's predicated on being able to
feed yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
In his there's a great book, I don't know if
you've read it. It's called The Omnivores Dilemma. But one
of one of the interesting things that he puts forth
is this idea that like one of the most basic
tradeable like forms of currency is the calorie. Right, Like
you can, like we talk so much about money, and
(16:55):
we talk about Fiat currency, and we talk about but
but if you, if you really like it down into
what are the things that like, like, only somebody who
has enough calories can give to another yea fascinating additional
calories and that is really like the energy off of
(17:16):
which our species runs. And so for me as a
foodie and as somebody who loves good food and also
like gets into you know, cheesemaking and all of the stuff,
make the eggs and all of that, like being able
to really break that down and not just think about like,
oh this is delicious, or like oh I make very
(17:37):
good cheese, or oh look at the yolk in this egg,
but also like what does that mean? And how is
that of value? And what does that mean? Like in
the course of life has been just a real departure
from like mean tweets, right, It takes everything else and
it puts it so much in perspective.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Really really good. I like that thought a lot.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marcowitch Show.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
So you did this year and your arrived here you
are I did, and you know you're generally just a happy,
successful person.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
You have a beautiful family, do you feel like you've
made it?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
So this is one of the questions that and I've
really struggled with it because it's not as simple yes
or no, right, Like, yes, I look at my sons,
and I think I have made it. I look at
the luxury right, like, like, over the course of human history,
being able to live off of your farm for a
(18:43):
year for fun is like the height of luxury. Right.
It gives you perspective. But it's also one of those
things that it's like this, this is just this is
a thing that I am not required to do. And
so in those ways, I've definitely made it. In education,
I've made it in and that doesn't mean I'm not
(19:05):
going to be a lifelong learner. But in friends, right,
like I got I got the email from you, and
like it warms my heart. But but I mean, we
are so fortunate, right, There's so many things that I
hate about the Internet. There's a lot of things that
I hate about the Internet. But I look at my
friends like you and Emily Zanati and Guy Benson and
(19:28):
Mary Katherine Ham and Bethany Mandel, your co author, and like,
what in what universe would we all be able to
be friends? Without this like unifying amazing. I am sitting
here in a shed on the back of four acres
north of Denver, Colorado, and I am talking to you.
(19:50):
I assume you're in Florida, right, Florida, right, and we're
having this conversation and it's unbelievable over like it's right,
So in every objective measure of humanity, I have made.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
It so And why is it easy?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yes? Yeah, and yet and yet there is still more
to do, right like this is this is the purpose
of life, is to continue to grow and change and
challenge and find the next steps and pursue the purpose. Right,
Because you're a nerd like me, and I think all
the time about yeah, I know it's mess but like
(20:30):
we're endowed by our creator with certain unvailable rights, including life, liberty,
and the pursuit of happiness. And I think about that
all the time, especially when I'm drunk. Like the other night,
I was having wine with some girlfriends and I'm like, oh,
you know the Big Three And they are not my
political girlfriends, and they're like, what are you talk about.
I'm like, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, like
(20:50):
it's the and they're like you're in it, you're crazy,
like always had too much to drink. Yeah, I'm always
and I always I always say that, right, which is
like the idea that we are endowed by our creator,
regardless of your view of God, the prime mover, the
animating force behind humanity. Right, Like, we're endowed with life, liberty,
(21:11):
and the pursuit of happiness. But the pursuit of happiness
never stops, right Like the pursuit of purpose and goodness
never ends.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah. Absolutely so, Yes, I've.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Made it and I will never make it. Does that
make sense?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
That is? Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 6 (21:30):
I mean it's it's tough because I think that you
want to feel like you have you know, you want
to get there, right, but if you feel like it's
not possible ever, it's it's it's an interesting I like
asking people because I get such.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
A wide range of answers on it, and I mean.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
This is a good one. Yeah, but like, yes, I
have made it, and I will never make it. I
will never ever make it. But yeah, here we sit.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Yeah, absolutely so what would you say, you know, going
to another question, but what would you say is our
largest cultural problem to overcome?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Okay, yeah, you have some good questions. Also, I didn't
sleep last night because I was like staring at the ceiling.
Oh my gosh, how do I how do I answer
these questions? So you touched on it briefly. I'm doing
this project called Restoring Standards. And I read this book.
It's so good by a guy named Tim Urban. It's
(22:28):
called What's Our Problem? A self help guide for societies.
And if you haven't read, see.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
The guy that did for our work week or.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
He's no, no he didn't maybe, but he's the one
he did that Ted talk, that really famous Ted talk
about procrastination that like finding out Jillian views. I will,
I'll send you the link. It's he's also like he's
a cartoonist, he's a big thinker, he's he's kind of
(22:59):
a modern day Philock. For okay, but I spent twenty
years in professionalized politics, twenty plus and it seemed like
a very like and I still am, right, like I'm
still doing it. And like many people I know, like you,
we've all really like struggled around that. And I've always
(23:20):
thought about, like, okay, politics is kind of the left
right spectrum is how we identify people, and it's you know,
the left is the Democrats and right is the Republicans.
But I think it's time to add an additional access
and that is the good faith versus bad faith spectrum.
And we need to start thinking about how we think,
(23:42):
and we need to start thinking about how we define
our tribes, and part of that like like if we're
looking at the underpinnings of all of that, if we're
looking at like the core principles, and we start to identify,
and that's and that's kind of the prime mover, if
you will, behind this project idea is that there are
(24:04):
good there are people of good faith, regardless of where
they are on the political spectrum. So it's not actually
left versus right, it's not this moderate question, but there
are We need to start to look at this and
this entire thing differently than we have because we naturally
get into the two party system and how we see that.
(24:27):
But there is also a two party system and it's
like crazy bad people and people of good faith, and
there's a ton of people in the middle, just like
everything else. Right, And what I have noticed is like
a unifying theme because politics is always downstream from culture,
(24:48):
is that I think our biggest cultural problem is that
we are inherently, by virtue of our human nature, relativists,
and we do not see back to the point that
I'm talking to my friend from Florida right now, we
do not see the wealth and the beauty and the creation,
(25:13):
and we do not see all of that in front
of us because we are relativists, and you and I
are about the same age. We grew up playing you know,
organ trail and coming home like right, like I have
died of dysentery so many times. Yeah, but I look
at I look at like my kids or your kids,
(25:34):
and what their perspective on what life is, and what
wealth is and where it comes from, and just just
the beauty of all of this. And so for me
being an urban farmer and getting back to like creation
of the tangible, especially obviously like look at me, I
love cheese, right, But but for me, I use that
(25:58):
as a tool to fight my own relativism. Does that
make sense? Yeah, I don't know. I'm articulating that well,
but yess it. I think our biggest cultural problem is
we're in the best situation we've ever been in over
the course of human history, and everybody is miserable.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, right, it's a tough one to overcome too.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
I think that it is even once you identify that
we all should be so much happier, it's hard to
get people to that place. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
So that's back to that pursuit of happiness, right, the
constant vigilance that is figuring out how to pursue happiness,
and humans inherently are bad at understanding what anticipating what
it is that's going to make us happy.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Did you ever read a Stumbling on Happiness?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
I was about to. I couldn't have that book.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
I love it, and we really have no idea what
you just don't know what future you will be like,
so yeah, what future you will want?
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Yeah, it's very I loved you wrote a column once
about like your marriage and getting married and and there
were so many things from Stumbling on Happiness in that call,
and it was I remember that one was so I
mean it was.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
My husband and I read that book when we were
engaged and like really maybe we weren't even maybe we're
just dating, I don't know, but early in our relationship.
And it's it's funny because it informs a lot of
things for us, Like I really it had a big
effect on me.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
That book.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
I really yeah, me too.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense that we would both.
I love talking to you.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
I think you know it's funny. We're already like way
over the time, but I love it.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
I don't care.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
I know.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
No, we don't have it. There's no set time, but
these usually just run shorter. But I love talking to you.
And here with your best tip for my listeners on
how they can improve their lives.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
I would take two or three minutes a day and
look around you and realize how magical everything is. Yeah,
just like just two or three minutes and just sit
down and be like wow, wow, like you know, read
(28:24):
ipencil every so often and look at look at the thing.
It's just it's like live in this unbelievable world and
we can all work together to make it better and
all of the things that we're concerned about and all
the things that we're scared about, Like, we got here
incrementally and we have to get out of it incrementally.
But that requires constant vigilance and the constant pursuit of happiness.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
I love it, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
She is Kelly Maher. She's amazing. Check her out. Real
best life. She's just so fantastic.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Thank you so much much for coming on. Kelly, you're
the best. Thank you, Carol, thanks so much for joining
us on the Carol Marcowitz Show. Subscribe wherever you get
your podcasts.
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
Over the weekend, Israel miraculously freed four of their hostages
held in Gaza since October seventh. It was very emotional.
One of them, Noah, is someone I've prayed for a
lot by name. She was the beautiful girl stolen that
(00:28):
day on the back of a motorbike as she reached
her hand out to her boyfriend who was on another
bike also being kidnapped. Her mom is dying of brain cancer,
and she wanted to see her daughter one more time
before she died, and now she will. It's amazing to
see her home. But I want to talk about something else.
(00:49):
On Saturday, when the rescues happened, I tweeted, the focus
will be on Noah, a beautiful young woman we all
watched get kidnapped by monsters on the back of a motorbike.
But the real miracle today is that al mug Andre
and Shlomi are home. No hostage deal ever included them.
It's women and children, the old, the sick, and these
(01:12):
young men, the oldest being forty, had no shot of
returning home. Hamas was never going to deal for them.
A rescue like this was their only hope. Men matter too,
and I'm so filled with joy that they are home.
A lot of people agreed with that. Some people felt
like they had to work really hard to misunderstand what
(01:32):
I was trying to say. I get why we put
men last, and the best men themselves demand to be
put last. I get why the hostage deals would be
for everyone, but these men, I just still find it crushing.
I don't like how men are treated in general. There
was a story in Bloomberg a few weeks ago that
(01:53):
really stayed with me. It was about a high school athlete,
a football star in Michigan, who got a flirty text
on his phone from a girl that he didn't know.
He engaged with her. She sent him a picture of
herself and then asked for a racy pick of him,
so he sent her a nude and it turned right
(02:14):
away into a sextortion scheme. There was no girl, and
that boy killed himself that same night. I shared this
story with so many friends who have teen boys, largely
because I don't think boys get the same warnings and
protection that girls do.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Look.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I have a daughter and two sons, and I see
what information they get about safety online and otherwise. Recently,
women were being led to believe that they would be
safer around a bear than a man. Meanwhile, boys are
supposed to know everything and be ready to be the
hero from a young age. Then they're treated like a danger.
(02:54):
And then an afterthought, the argument is, well, things have
always been great for men, It's okay to treat them
badly for a little while. I'm not okay with that.
In twenty eighteen, then Senator Kamala Harris asked Brett Kavanaugh,
can you think of any laws that give government the
power to make decisions about the male body? I wrote
(03:15):
in a New York Post column. Quote. The question was
in the midst of harris extensive grandstanding, so Kavanaugh didn't
have an immediate answer. But there's an obvious one, selective Service.
Every American male eighteen to twenty five has to register
with the Selective Service System, which maintains their information in
case of military conscription. If America is ever again in
(03:37):
a war and needs to reinstate the draft, those male
bodies will be the ones to go. End quote. But
obviously it's not just that men naturally die younger. More
men are in prison than women. Fewer men go to college.
Men overwhelmingly have the most dangerous jobs. Far more men
commit suicide. Most homeless are men. Over ninety eight percent
(04:00):
of the debts in the wars since nine to eleven
have been men, et cetera, et cetera. I don't have
the answer. And as I said at the start, the
best men are the ones who willingly do hard things
to protect us.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
All.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I'm just saying, maybe we can appreciate it just a
little bit more. Coming up next an interview with Kelly Maher.
Join us after the break.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Welcome back to the Carol Marcowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My
guest today is Kelly Maher. Kelly writes the subseac Real
Best Life and is an urban farmer at guild Gate
Farm in Colorado. She's an artisanal cheesemaker and mom of two.
Her new project is called Restoring Standards, and it's loosely
dedicated to getting crazy people out of politics.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Hi, Kelly, that was the best intro. I loved it. Hi, friend,
how are you are you good?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I'm so glad to have you on.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I was so excited when you invited me. I was like,
I saw it come in my email. I was like
immediately yes, immediately.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Yes, until you realized it was video also, and then
felt somewhat lied to.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
You know what, It's fine, okay. If there's somebody that
I will put on mascara for, it's you. Thank you,
thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
The best is you know.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
So I send you know, the informational email out and
I include in it the three like, you know, fairly
serious questions that I asked people in it, and there's
so many people that don't read that email at all.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And then when I'm like, hey.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
So what's the biggest cultural problem we face, They're like, what,
this is kind of a lot. So, you know, but
I've never had anybody, uh, you know, complain about.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
The video parts. So that was funny.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I enjoyed that personally, Like the gift that you used
all of it was really good.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yes, thank you, thank you. I I'm good for a
good gift exactly.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
So I knew you before your one year project of
oh yeah, so we're.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Going to get into that, but I want you tell us.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
But I feel like that's the time where I really
got to know you, Like that year where you did
what I.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
So, okay, I lived off of what we produced on
our tiny farm for an entire year. It was very fortunate.
I called it the homegrown Year. I was super fortunate
that a lot of it, uh it really dovetailed with COVID,
so it actually like was a decent way to do
a lockdown. Was trying to figure out if I could
(06:35):
feed myself, and it's it was one of those really
fascinating projects where you're like, hmm, people have been living
for the bulk of human history off of the food
that they produce. I am, you know, a soft like
Internet denizen, right, like, can I do this thing? And
(07:00):
so shortly after my first son was born, my husband
and I bought this small acreage property just north of Denver, Colorado.
And the night before we closed on the farm, I
found my my father passed away unexpectedly. So it was
(07:22):
like a very very traumatic move because I had a baby,
you know, such as life, but I had a baby,
my dad unexpectedly died, and then we moved to this acreage,
and then in short order I ended up pregnant with
my second and so it was just like a lot
very very fast. And then a little bit after that,
(07:44):
a mutual friend of ours, Guy Benson, got married in Napa,
and I had gotten a couple of goats and I'd
gotten a couple of chickens. So I'm out in Napa
at the wedding. My husband stayed home with the two kids,
so it's just me. Yeah, yeah, thanks. But so it
was just me with my friends and we would go
(08:04):
out to these fancy restaurants and I'd be like, oh,
this cheese is good, but my cheese that I make
at home. And so we like had just enough wine,
and I was just enough postpartum, you know, when you're
postpartum and you're like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
You're a little crazy.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
I mean more than a little, right, And so my
friend Emily looks at me and she's like, if you
love all the stuff you make on your farm so much,
why don't you live off of it for a year.
And I was like, that is a great idea.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Yeah, and then it's the kind of decision you should
make without your husband late at night.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I'm like, three bottles of wine, yes, exactly, exactly. But
you know, previous to that, I've had a long, a
long career in the thing that shall not be named
on this podcast, right, which is politics.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
We get into politics a little bit sometimes it just
generally a podcast about life.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
But yeah, exactly, and to the extent that politics is
like a portion of life. But I might had had
an entire career, a long career in politics and was
really dissatisfied as a lot of people I think have
been with politics. And so this was a really good
(09:20):
like reprieve for me to just take kind of a
deep breath and say, what is important here? What is
important about life? What is beautiful about life? And it's
actually made me, I think better able than to re
engage with all of the craziness that you and I
engage with all ry interesting.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Yeah, I mean I loved following that story. I sent
it to so many people who are like not you know,
not very online people, and I just like, for me,
the hardest part of what you did was the no
coffee Like that was I.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Could do the rest. I mean, I you know, in theory.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Did that eventually get some coffee?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I found it for it.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
I did. I did. So we we in NAPA at
this wedding. We made these rules right and they were like, okay,
late night rules for some crazy thing. Late night rolled
for this like manufactured challenge that I decided to do.
I love it, okay, yeah, as one as one does.
And actually like I think one of the last, one
(10:26):
of the last hurrahs. Like before the lockdowns started, you
and I were in Aruba.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, I mean the day before lockdown start, right.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
You and I were in Aruba and you're like drinking
and I'm telling you I'm going to live off my
farm for a.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Year and Catherine Ham's wedding.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah yeah yeah, and You're like, you're an insane person.
I'm like, yes, i am, I'm so excited.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
No, I'm sure I was in teen I'm sure I
love late night bad ideas, you know, not that that
was a bad idea, but just late night like a quirky,
quirky idea.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, I'm I'm all in.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
So then at one point I did guys radio show
and somebody in Hawaii was listening to it, and he
contacted me and offer to barter. The thing is like,
it's a very like what you can send agriculturally into
Hawaii is very narrow, because.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
I'm like, no.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
No, no, I had to be cheese. I can't. You can't
send anything with seeds, you can't send anything that's like
vegetable based there, and Also I learned about Hawaii random
sorry this is round, but like so at one point
there were chickens that were like accidentally introduced to Hawaii
and they naturally flourished there. So they just have like
(11:45):
wild slash formerly domesticated chickens just like running all over Hawaii,
and they are obnoxious and people just often just kill them.
And oh okay, so I.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
Thought gonna thought people like take them as pets, but
no killing any killing them and eating them sounds right.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Also literally just meat running around all the time, right,
and so yeah, it's it's just it's such a fascinating
they're very very strict about what can be introduced in
Hawaii and not because it's such a really like delicate ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
So you sent them cheese and they sent you coffee.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Fee grow yes, yes.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
And then I also because that was the thing, it
had to be bartered for something that somebody else grows personally.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
It can't be like sending you tasters choice like correct, I.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Had to I had to barter with a source, like
a creator of the thing. So a woman from California
sent me some avocados, which was like the highlight of
my year.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Yeah, our friend Alicia Krauss sent me lemons and come
qua oh so good.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
She grew I didn't know she grows lemons.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah, And I actually learned about preserving lemons. There's a
type of there's a type of lemon preservation that you
can do in salt that it's like like it's a
really delicious umami flavor. And I used those a lot.
It was. It was fascinating. It was such a weird year.
I had pigs. I had one pig who ended up
(13:26):
being very mean. And there is a reason by the
way that like the mob uses pigs as they're enforcers, like,
so they're very smart and super mean. And so my
pigs would go and they would take their food and
they would like spit it by the fence where the
chickens were, and then they would attack the chickens. It
was smart. Pigs are scary. Yeah, never never again on
the pigs. But it was great.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
It was.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
It was so bizarre, but it also was exactly what
I needed at that point in my life, right, I remember, yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
You remember following along and having it be you had
like it really was sort of like a reality show.
I mean it was like you had one night your
fridge with all your meat like disconnected or something or
like wasn't working.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Peril.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I felt so devastated for you.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Oh. I was like I was ready to cry, and
like I walked out. So yeah, okay, I'll set the scene.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
One of the things that was allowed was things that
my husband hunted, right, so he he's a big deer hunter.
So I had a deer in a freezer. Yeah, and
for some reason, the people who designed this freezer put
the on off switch like right on the bottom of
the freezer. And my little kids were like, oh, look
at this little switch, and do you know what they do?
(14:49):
Clicked it And I walked out and I just see
like blood on the floor of the garage, and I
was like but and I cried on the internet, which
is like I think I said I would never do right,
I was never gonna be with you.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
What is she going?
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, you know what. One of the things that that
horrifying incident. And I managed to save a lot of it.
I managed to freeze dry a lot of it. I
cooked a lot of it and then canned it, so
it actually ended up being very little waste. But like
the thing is with a challenge like that, if I failed, right,
like if I literally ran out of food, I can
(15:32):
then be like, oh I failed, and then I can.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Go to the st No one'd be like, no, no,
you said you.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Have to do that.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
Yeah, now you die, right, but your husband's updates were
Kelly is still alive or Kelly has not died yet, So.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yes, it hasn't starved to death.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Right and.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
It But it was really interesting to me because that
devastation that I felt about losing that meat made me
understand how humans have lived for most of human history,
Like they didn't even by the way, didn't even have
free zears. But you think about you know, you think about,
(16:19):
like what are the most base things in our society,
and it is like it's predicated on being able to
feed yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
In his there's a great book, I don't know if
you've read it. It's called The Omnivores Dilemma. But one
of one of the interesting things that he puts forth
is this idea that like one of the most basic
tradeable like forms of currency is the calorie. Right, Like
you can, like we talk so much about money, and
(16:55):
we talk about Fiat currency, and we talk about but
but if you, if you really like it down into
what are the things that like, like, only somebody who
has enough calories can give to another yea fascinating additional
calories and that is really like the energy off of
(17:16):
which our species runs. And so for me as a
foodie and as somebody who loves good food and also
like gets into you know, cheesemaking and all of the stuff,
make the eggs and all of that, like being able
to really break that down and not just think about like,
oh this is delicious, or like oh I make very
(17:37):
good cheese, or oh look at the yolk in this egg,
but also like what does that mean? And how is
that of value? And what does that mean? Like in
the course of life has been just a real departure
from like mean tweets, right, It takes everything else and
it puts it so much in perspective.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Really really good. I like that thought a lot.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marcowitch Show.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
So you did this year and your arrived here you
are I did, and you know you're generally just a happy,
successful person.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
You have a beautiful family, do you feel like you've
made it?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
So this is one of the questions that and I've
really struggled with it because it's not as simple yes
or no, right, Like, yes, I look at my sons,
and I think I have made it. I look at
the luxury right, like, like, over the course of human history,
being able to live off of your farm for a
(18:43):
year for fun is like the height of luxury. Right.
It gives you perspective. But it's also one of those
things that it's like this, this is just this is
a thing that I am not required to do. And
so in those ways, I've definitely made it. In education,
I've made it in and that doesn't mean I'm not
(19:05):
going to be a lifelong learner. But in friends, right,
like I got I got the email from you, and
like it warms my heart. But but I mean, we
are so fortunate, right, There's so many things that I
hate about the Internet. There's a lot of things that
I hate about the Internet. But I look at my
friends like you and Emily Zanati and Guy Benson and
(19:28):
Mary Katherine Ham and Bethany Mandel, your co author, and like,
what in what universe would we all be able to
be friends? Without this like unifying amazing. I am sitting
here in a shed on the back of four acres
north of Denver, Colorado, and I am talking to you.
(19:50):
I assume you're in Florida, right, Florida, right, and we're
having this conversation and it's unbelievable over like it's right,
So in every objective measure of humanity, I have made.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
It so And why is it easy?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yes? Yeah, and yet and yet there is still more
to do, right like this is this is the purpose
of life, is to continue to grow and change and
challenge and find the next steps and pursue the purpose. Right,
Because you're a nerd like me, and I think all
the time about yeah, I know it's mess but like
(20:30):
we're endowed by our creator with certain unvailable rights, including life, liberty,
and the pursuit of happiness. And I think about that
all the time, especially when I'm drunk. Like the other night,
I was having wine with some girlfriends and I'm like, oh,
you know the Big Three And they are not my
political girlfriends, and they're like, what are you talk about.
I'm like, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, like
(20:50):
it's the and they're like you're in it, you're crazy,
like always had too much to drink. Yeah, I'm always
and I always I always say that, right, which is
like the idea that we are endowed by our creator,
regardless of your view of God, the prime mover, the
animating force behind humanity. Right, Like, we're endowed with life, liberty,
(21:11):
and the pursuit of happiness. But the pursuit of happiness
never stops, right Like the pursuit of purpose and goodness
never ends.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah. Absolutely so, Yes, I've.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Made it and I will never make it. Does that
make sense?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
That is? Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 6 (21:30):
I mean it's it's tough because I think that you
want to feel like you have you know, you want
to get there, right, but if you feel like it's
not possible ever, it's it's it's an interesting I like
asking people because I get such.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
A wide range of answers on it, and I mean.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
This is a good one. Yeah, but like, yes, I
have made it, and I will never make it. I
will never ever make it. But yeah, here we sit.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Yeah, absolutely so what would you say, you know, going
to another question, but what would you say is our
largest cultural problem to overcome?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Okay, yeah, you have some good questions. Also, I didn't
sleep last night because I was like staring at the ceiling.
Oh my gosh, how do I how do I answer
these questions? So you touched on it briefly. I'm doing
this project called Restoring Standards. And I read this book.
It's so good by a guy named Tim Urban. It's
(22:28):
called What's Our Problem? A self help guide for societies.
And if you haven't read, see.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
The guy that did for our work week or.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
He's no, no he didn't maybe, but he's the one
he did that Ted talk, that really famous Ted talk
about procrastination that like finding out Jillian views. I will,
I'll send you the link. It's he's also like he's
a cartoonist, he's a big thinker, he's he's kind of
(22:59):
a modern day Philock. For okay, but I spent twenty
years in professionalized politics, twenty plus and it seemed like
a very like and I still am, right, like I'm
still doing it. And like many people I know, like you,
we've all really like struggled around that. And I've always
(23:20):
thought about, like, okay, politics is kind of the left
right spectrum is how we identify people, and it's you know,
the left is the Democrats and right is the Republicans.
But I think it's time to add an additional access
and that is the good faith versus bad faith spectrum.
And we need to start thinking about how we think,
(23:42):
and we need to start thinking about how we define
our tribes, and part of that like like if we're
looking at the underpinnings of all of that, if we're
looking at like the core principles, and we start to identify,
and that's and that's kind of the prime mover, if
you will, behind this project idea is that there are
(24:04):
good there are people of good faith, regardless of where
they are on the political spectrum. So it's not actually
left versus right, it's not this moderate question, but there
are We need to start to look at this and
this entire thing differently than we have because we naturally
get into the two party system and how we see that.
(24:27):
But there is also a two party system and it's
like crazy bad people and people of good faith, and
there's a ton of people in the middle, just like
everything else. Right, And what I have noticed is like
a unifying theme because politics is always downstream from culture,
(24:48):
is that I think our biggest cultural problem is that
we are inherently, by virtue of our human nature, relativists,
and we do not see back to the point that
I'm talking to my friend from Florida right now, we
do not see the wealth and the beauty and the creation,
(25:13):
and we do not see all of that in front
of us because we are relativists, and you and I
are about the same age. We grew up playing you know,
organ trail and coming home like right, like I have
died of dysentery so many times. Yeah, but I look
at I look at like my kids or your kids,
(25:34):
and what their perspective on what life is, and what
wealth is and where it comes from, and just just
the beauty of all of this. And so for me
being an urban farmer and getting back to like creation
of the tangible, especially obviously like look at me, I
love cheese, right, But but for me, I use that
(25:58):
as a tool to fight my own relativism. Does that
make sense? Yeah, I don't know. I'm articulating that well,
but yess it. I think our biggest cultural problem is
we're in the best situation we've ever been in over
the course of human history, and everybody is miserable.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, right, it's a tough one to overcome too.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
I think that it is even once you identify that
we all should be so much happier, it's hard to
get people to that place. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
So that's back to that pursuit of happiness, right, the
constant vigilance that is figuring out how to pursue happiness,
and humans inherently are bad at understanding what anticipating what
it is that's going to make us happy.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Did you ever read a Stumbling on Happiness?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
I was about to. I couldn't have that book.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
I love it, and we really have no idea what
you just don't know what future you will be like,
so yeah, what future you will want?
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Yeah, it's very I loved you wrote a column once
about like your marriage and getting married and and there
were so many things from Stumbling on Happiness in that call,
and it was I remember that one was so I
mean it was.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
My husband and I read that book when we were
engaged and like really maybe we weren't even maybe we're
just dating, I don't know, but early in our relationship.
And it's it's funny because it informs a lot of
things for us, Like I really it had a big
effect on me.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
That book.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
I really yeah, me too.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense that we would both.
I love talking to you.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
I think you know it's funny. We're already like way
over the time, but I love it.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
I don't care.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
I know.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
No, we don't have it. There's no set time, but
these usually just run shorter. But I love talking to you.
And here with your best tip for my listeners on
how they can improve their lives.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
I would take two or three minutes a day and
look around you and realize how magical everything is. Yeah,
just like just two or three minutes and just sit
down and be like wow, wow, like you know, read
(28:24):
ipencil every so often and look at look at the thing.
It's just it's like live in this unbelievable world and
we can all work together to make it better and
all of the things that we're concerned about and all
the things that we're scared about, Like, we got here
incrementally and we have to get out of it incrementally.
But that requires constant vigilance and the constant pursuit of happiness.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
I love it, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
She is Kelly Maher. She's amazing. Check her out. Real
best life. She's just so fantastic.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Thank you so much much for coming on. Kelly, you're
the best. Thank you, Carol, thanks so much for joining
us on the Carol Marcowitz Show. Subscribe wherever you get
your podcasts.
Host
Karol Markowicz
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