May 1, 2025 • 48 mins
Hannah unpacks the wild true story of Osama El-Atari—a flashy con man- turned-jailhouse informant, who ultimately helps take down a serial killer. Also, Patia and Hannah discuss There Is No Ethan, Anna Akbari’s gripping account of a catfishing saga.
There Is No Ethan: https://www.annaakbari.com/thereisnoethan
Washington City Paper article: https://washingtoncitypaper.com/article/195498/the-king-of-ashburn-the-life-and-murder-of-con-man-osama-elatari/
Additional Recommendation: The Con: Kaitlyn’s Baby
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.
(00:20):
Hello and welcome. This is the Knife Off Record. I'm
Patia Eton and I'm Hannah Smith. Today we're going to
talk about a fraud case that turned into a much
bigger story than it appeared at face value. But first
we're going to discuss a book that Patia and I
both read and love and we think you will love
as well.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
We read it and we listened. We did? Which one
did we do? Actually? Listened? I listened? Yeah, I didn't read. That?
Does that count as reading? I don't know. My mom's
a librarian, so I'm going to tell her I read it. Yeah,
I think it counts.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
The book is called There Is No Ethan How Three
Women Uncovered America's Biggest Catfish by Anna Akbari, and the
basic synops this is that Anna takes us through an
experience she had meeting this man named Ethan Schumann on
an online dating platform Okaycupid in late twenty ten. I
think of this period of time as like there were
(01:14):
so many catfishing experiences happening. We didn't really know yet
to be aware of this or to be wary of it.
And I feel like I've just listened to and heard
so many stories of people being conned around this time period.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
It was such a new moment for online dating. I
actually met my husband online in twenty thirteen, and it
was still so new that I remember when people would
ask us how we met, we would sort of dodge
the question because it was almost like embarrassing. I know.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I was actually just thinking about that the other day.
It feels like not that long ago, but it was
so unusual back then, and it was I remember. I
remember meeting people who had said we met online, and
I was like, Oh, that's kind of cool and weird
and interesting.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
And what's wrong with you? Yeah, because we met online
when you couldn't even log into the app on your phone.
You were getting on your computer, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
And I think this was the same with this story
with there is no Ethan, she's logging into the computer,
okaycubit around this time.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
So this book is.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Part Anna talking about her personal experience being scammed, and
then it's also part investigative. It really feels like a podcast,
except it's a book.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
It's a book, and that means we read it, whether
or not we listened or read it and yeah, listening
to it and putting yourself back in that place of
wanting to meet someone and being really hopeful when you
have chemistry, which we all know can exist digitally, but
being on the forefront of that and not knowing how
(02:56):
to level your own expectations.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
According Yeah, and when you want something so badly, it's
really easy to sort of make excuses. I spent many
years on the online dating platforms, and I can tell
you it is harrowing at times. I've quite pressing so
much worse. I thought you were going to say, gotten
so much better. No, it was like, no, it has not.
(03:21):
No one's out there saying this is such a great experience.
They loved dating on them, but it is the modern way.
I loved listening to this book because it felt like
I was listening to an extended podcast that I had
hours of, and that is a joy. They have an
actor do the voice of Ethan, which I thought was good.
I thought they did a good job and it was
(03:42):
really engaging. And then Anna goes on to talk about
how she connects with these other women who are also
victims of the same person, and it really pays off.
So listen to the very end because unlike some stories
where you don't get answers, you do get answers here,
which is you know, enticing.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
These victims get all of the answers and well, I
guess you know, all compared to maybe many other victims
of catfishing frauds. But the reveal is mind blowing. It
truly is someone you would never expect, which, as you're
rethinking about the story that you listen to, is like
(04:22):
she could never have anticipated the outcome of this. You know,
there are red flags and a lot of relationships and
maybe some people's minds take it to a worst case scenario.
I don't even think anyone could have anticipated where this
was going. Yeah, I agree, it's a great listen. We
highly recommend it, thrilling all the way through. And I
(04:45):
actually have another recommendation, oh, Patia, Okay, coming in with
two recommendations. Two recommendations today. This one is the con
Caitlin's Baby. Okay, I've not heard of this all right,
So this is about a woman named Caitlin. Who is
this a podcast? This is a podcast? Okay, this is
a podcast the Conkaitlyn's Baby, and it's about a young
(05:07):
woman named Caitlin who reaches out to doulas and both
in person, and virtually utilizes their services over and over
and over again through extreme situations like pregnancy, loss, rape,
and medical events like a coma. You know, they revealed
(05:30):
pretty early on not everything is as it seems, But
the story is just a world I knew nothing about doulas,
like this online community of people that you can reach
out to for birth support no matter where you're at
in your pregnancy. And you know, this is a line
of work you get into if you're super passionate about it,
(05:51):
and you would never imagine someone taking advantage. So these
doulas were having very intimate experiences with someone that they
were trying to help who was misleading them in a
major way, And it just blew my mind. The extent
this person went to to mislead people was so egregious.
(06:12):
And you know, there's a reveal at the end of
someone very close to her that maybe knew it was
happening that I found especially surprising. It's a great listen.
The story moves really quickly, and there was a lot
I didn't know about that world that I think I
have a much better understanding of. Now.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Wow, that sounds really great. I'll definitely check that out. Yeah,
so you didn't have a doula.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I didn't have a doula. No, I didn't know what
they were. I just did it the old fashioned way
with a lot of drugs. Great. However you choose to
do it is great. Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I mean we've talked a lot about like medical fraud
and stories in that world, but I never heard about
someone conning a doula before. So yeah, that's definitely intriguing.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah. I mean, and you're in a way seeking it's
not medical support, Like these people are not doctors, but
I think birth is maybe referred to as a routine
medical event or a routine health event, and it does
surprise me that this sort of in between is there
for these moments that are very close to birth.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Thanks for the recommendation. I always love a good podcast recommendation,
so I will check it out.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Okay, So I have a story to tell you today,
and it's kind of in multiple parts. I thought of
this story recently because last week we had a great
interview with Jennifer Thompson. If you haven't heard that yet,
go check it out. It made me think back to
(07:52):
this story because a wrongful conviction does play a role,
so I wanted to talk to you about it today.
This is a story that I heard about months and
months and months ago, I don't know, a year ago,
and I have been intrigued by it. It kind of
falls into that category of I made some calls and
wasn't able to find anyone to do an interview for
(08:13):
this story.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah. I remember when you initially found the story and
you told me just a little bit about it. But
like you said, you made some calls and we had
kind of moved on. So I'm really excited to hear Okay.
So the first part of this story takes place in Virginia,
and most of the information I'm getting here is from
an FBI affidavit, as well as an article from Washington
(08:38):
City Paper called King of Ashburn That is a great
article written in twenty sixteen. This is a story about
a man named Osama El Atari. He grew up in
Virginia in the eighties and nineties in a middle class
family and then became this notable restaurant owner in Ashbourne, Virginia.
By the early two thousands, he was pretty well known
(09:01):
amongst his community, and he owned multiple restaurants, including Lucky's,
a sports theater and grill. I never heard the term
sports theater before, but I think it's just like a
sports bar. A sports theater. How did you heard that before?
And then two locations of a place called the Original
Steakhouse and sports theater also a sports theater? Are they
(09:22):
performing the sports?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
The Original Steakhouse in sports Theater is described as half
booth restaurant and half sports bar. I love a booth.
I love a booth too. Any restaurant with a booth,
I'm in, I'm in. I don't even care what they're serving.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
No, they're great. They coral toddlers. Oh yeah, that is
another great use, huge selling point for me. Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
It's also noted that his family owned multiple Buffalo wing
factory locations, so it seemed like the restaurant business was
kind of the family business, and then he got into it,
and by all accounts, he was really successful. He was
also a very flashy guy. He love a good sports car.
Around two thousand and eight he owned two Lamborghinis, two Ferraris,
(10:07):
and a Rolls Royce Phantom, which I looked that up
because I know nothing about cars. A Rolls Royce Phantom
today can be as much as like four hundred to
five hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So many, many many of my current car, which is
easily the nicest I've ever had, and many many more
of the pres I had for twelve years before this.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, that's well over a million dollars in cars what
he had. And at this point he owned three restaurants,
which seemed to be busy, but you have to kind
of wonder, Okay, well, how much money are you really
making here? According to the Washington City Paper article, he
bought a mansion that had seven bathrooms that was seven
five hundred and ninety square feet for four point five
(10:49):
million dollars, and then he also bought a football jersey
at a charity auction for twenty five thousand dollars. It
was the jersey of NFL player Sean Taylor, who actually
was murdered in his home in two thousand and seven.
So you know, he was definitely spending money. His friends
and family said that he spent money in a charitable way.
(11:09):
Mostly he bought things for people around him. He sponsored
local sports teams. He was seen as a very generous
person and was upstanding, this well to do guy in
his community. He did get into some trouble with the
law when it comes to driving. He got a lot
of traffic tickets for driving his cars too fast, for speeding.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Well, you have to wonder, you have all of these
sports cars, where are you going?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, I mean, if you have them, you think you
would want to drive them?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, I mean mine would have you know, I would
be going to the grocery store and back just as
fast as you can. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
So he did have traffic violations. He did a short
sent in jail even for a traffic violation, but other
than that, he seemed to be on the straight and narrow.
But then he started to take out bank loans. The
first one is in December of two thousand and seven,
he secured a five million dollar loan from United Bank,
and the purpose stated on his loan application was to
(12:07):
acquire two more original steakhouse locations in Maryland. He provided
two cash value life insurance policies to the bank as
collateral for this loan, and each of those was valued
at over three million dollars. But what didn't come out
till later was that, you know, he would not have
been able to secure this loan if it weren't for
(12:30):
someone at the bank. The assistant vice president of United
Bank saw these life insurance policies and immediately flagged that
they were fake. And instead of flagging this at the bank,
he met up at a Starbucks with Osama El Atari
and essentially said I want in on this, Like, I
know you're up to something. Yeah, something is happening here.
(12:53):
I don't really think that you're going to use this
money for these restaurants, and basically said, I want in
on your scheme.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Well, and then if you're Osama, what choice do you
have but to agree because you're up to something. And
now this person that the bank knows that's a great point.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, So this assistant vice president of the bank created
a fake accountant, Gordon Leipzig.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I don't know if I'm saying that right. Well, it
doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
He's a big person that he created and fixed the
life insurance policies to make them look convincing and then
was able. Osama was able to get this loan in exchange,
she gave him a one hundred and fifty thousand dollars kickback.
Classic Yes, and he was able to use these doctored
life insurance policies to then go to other banks and
(13:43):
get additional loans, so he continued to get loans. He
also continued to get loans from a United Bank in
a total of seventeen million dollars.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
And the guy from the Starbucks meetup is in on
these other loan acquisitions. I don't know if he is.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
All I could find was that he was in on
that first one and got that kick back. Okay, But
at this point then Osama already had the faked documents
that were convincing and looked real, so he could use
those right to get other loans. And from the investigation,
it looks like he started to spend the money pretty
immediately on cars as well as the home that he bought,
(14:18):
and then it became this like catch up game where
he wasn't able to pay back these loans, so then
he started to get more loans. And you can sort
of get the feeling that the scam can go for
a certain amount of time, but there's going to be
an end point where he's not able to pay anything back.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Right, is he thinking he'll just forever go make fake
life insurance policies to get loans?
Speaker 1 (14:42):
This is the big question I have with every fraud
story we do is what is the end goal?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
It's like, what is your plan? There is no plan.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, you live large and you have fun and then
at some point it has to stop, right, I want
to sleep that well at night. You too, so you know,
of course things are going to come to a head.
By early two thousand and nine, he'd taken loans out
from seven different banks in a total of around seventy
million dollars.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
And okay, I would love to have seventy million dollars,
but what are you doing with it?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
It's you had a large amount of money.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah. We were just talking about what tabs we needed
to close in our computers, and mine is always old Navy. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I mean you could get a lot of shirts, yeah,
for seventy million. So he's got a lot of money.
The banks are catching on and they're demanding their money back.
And in May of two thousand and nine, United Bank
realizes that the life insurance documents were faked, and authorities
show up to Asama's house and he is not there.
(15:44):
He has fled. They did find eighteen big screen televisions. Okay,
I do want to come back to the eighteen televisions.
I have so many questions. But is United Bank?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Remind me the first bank he secured the loan from, Yes,
and that is the bank where we know someone else
at the bank knew about it.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, the assistant vice president. I don't know if he
was still at the bank. Okay at that time. He
will come back into this later.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Eighteen big screen televisions, and I don't quite recall, but
I'm guessing they were those enormous box televisions at that time.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yeah, because two thousand and nine they're not like as
thin as they are now.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
They're not the frame TVs. No. Now, actually I don't
even think we call them big screens anymore. Right, Wow,
So okay, eighteen of them.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
So then he goes on the run, and there's eight
months where he's unaccounted for. He's on the run, and
no one knows exactly where he went. At one point,
investigators in Brazil supposedly found a death certificate for him
and a passport, but when it was looked into further,
it was clear that that wasn't real and he'd actually
(16:54):
bribed someone in Brazil to try to fake his death.
In June of two thousand and nine, he was charged
in Centia with bank fraud. So they still didn't know
where he was, but it was clear he'd done this.
He's charged, and then in January of twenty ten, he
was found in Texas at a Ferrari dealership.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Oh my gosh, a true like car shopping compulsion. Yeah,
I mean he loved cars. I just wonder wouldn't he
want to be a little more incognito.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah, I don't know. It's strange, but that's where he
was found. It also makes you wonder about the money,
you know, like is there money?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Where did he put it? Like is he physically carrying
around all that cash? Surely not? Surely not. But how's
he Yeah, how's he buying the car?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
So in April of twenty ten, he pled guilty to
three counts of bank fraud and one count of money laundering,
and he was sentenced to twelve years in prison, followed
by five years of supervised release, and was sent to
serve time at the Arlington County Jail. So this brings
us to the second part of the story. Almost as
(18:10):
soon as he's arrested, he starts trying to strike deals.
He immediately turns in the United Bank assistant vice president.
Oh my gosh, who had helped him doctor the life
insurance policies.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Okay, he's like, if I'm going now and you're going
down with me.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, And once he's serving time, he seems to be
on alert for any like jailhouse confessions that he can hear.
He tells authorities at one point that he overheard this
guy claiming to be involved in a terrorist smuggling operation.
He provides details to them that one didn't end up
(18:45):
leading to an arrest, but it sets the scene that
he is very clearly someone who has you know, notified
law enforcement authorities that he is available.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Oh, I see. So he's listening, Like, what can I
give them an change for maybe some leniency? Yeah, So
he's on the lookout. He's on the lookout.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
He's like, if I can basically go undercover, I'm a
prisoner here, but if there's anyone you're trying to get
information out of, I'm your guy, Like, I'll do whatever.
I'll wear a wire if it can get me out
of prison sooner. I don't know that I would think
to do this, but if I did, I would try.
You would try. I would do anything. Yeah, you know
it could be a dangerous thing to do. But uh,
(19:26):
this is what he does, and pretty soon he gets
the chance to do it. He ends up in a
cell next to George Avila Torres, and people might recognize
that name because he is now considered to be a
serial killer. I want to note that his name is
spelled Jorge. I looked this up because people kept calling
(19:47):
him George, and he said that he goes by both
Jorge and George. At one point an officer asked him
which he preferred, and he said George. It sounds like
he went by Jorge with his family, So I'm going
to call him George. But that is the situation with
his name.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
So he is also in Arlington County jail awaiting trial.
In twenty ten, George A. Villa Torres was arrested and
charged with crimes committed in Arlington. The first one on
February tenth, twenty ten, he attempted to abduct and assault
a twenty six year old woman who is unnamed in
(20:27):
court documents. She was walking to her boyfriend's house. He
came up behind her, grabbed her jacket and kind of
flashed that he was holding a gun. They had a
struggle and she just said, you know, do you want
my money? Take my purse, but he kept pulling her
(20:48):
toward a Tan Dodge Durango. She was actually able to
sort of shove her purse toward him and leave it
and run away and escape from him. She had a
friend who lived a couple houses down, and so she
just ran into her friend's house. They immediately called the
police and she made a report. She reported what he
(21:09):
looked like. She had clocked his vehicle as well. That
is terrifying, so scary. So then you know, the police
started to search. They didn't find anyone immediately, and they
never found her purse. Two weeks later, close by, two
female graduate students who are also unnamed in the court
(21:29):
documents were walking to one of their homes when he
emerged from behind a parked car, and it was the
same thing kind of. He immediately flashed that he had
a gun. He demanded their wallets. They said they didn't
have them on them, so he forced them to go
into the house. He tied them up. One of them
was able to kind of get loose and make a
(21:51):
call to nine one one with her cell phone. And
this is twenty ten again, so like the cell phone
situation is different than we have now. He then got
her phone, threw it against the wall and smashed it,
and then took one of these women outside into his vehicle,
the same Tan Dodge Durango, and drove her to a
(22:13):
remote area. He sexually assaulted her, then tied a scarf
around her neck and attempted to kill her. She lost consciousness,
but then woke up outside in the snow and was alive,
and a passerby stopped and found her. She immediately made
a police report, and based on her description of him
(22:34):
as well as the vehicle, law enforcement pretty quickly realized
this was the same person who had just tried to
attack a woman two weeks prior. Arlington County Police had
also made a note that a few days before they
had observed this guy in the same type of vehicle
out like stalking women. He looked really suspicious and it
(22:57):
was Georgia Villa Torres. They were able to locate him
pretty quickly and arrested him on February twenty seventh, twenty ten,
at Joint Base Meyer Henderson Hall, which is a residence
hall on a military base. He was a marine at
the time. They searched his vehicle and found the school
id of the woman that he attempted to murder, and
(23:20):
when they searched his barracks they found a gun and
incriminating content on his computer that was sexually violent.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Wow. So they found him based on the witness identification
of him and of his car. Yes, Yeah, they didn't
have a name or anything, but they must have had.
Maybe they're just searching like a Tan what was it,
a Bronco Dodge Durango, A Dodge Durango, a Tan Dodge Durango,
And that's how they found him. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
How old was he? He was in his early twenties.
I think he was twenty one at the time.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, they did take DNA samples from him. He was
charged and was awaiting trial at the time. When he
encounters Osama El Atari in prison, they are in cells
next to each other. And it's unclear to me exactly
(24:12):
why they wanted him to wear a wire. I believe
that investigators wondered if he was connected to a third murder,
and they also just wanted more evidence to be able to,
you know, get a clean conviction. So Osama El Atari agreed.
He told investigators he thought that this guy was a monster.
(24:35):
He had already encountered him and had a really low
opinion of him. But he was like, great, I'll do it.
I'll wear a wire and I'll befriend this guy.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Osama must be really good at keeping his school.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, exactly. Well, the guy that was able to convince
banks to give him seventy million dollars of course kind
of be like a smooth talker. Yeah, you know, yeah,
gets people to trust him.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Wow. You also are like, if anyone finds out that
I'm wearing a wire, I will never live it down here.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
This guy is clearly like a violent, you know, dangerous
person or has done violent and dangerous things. So yeah,
you have to assume it would be very nerve wracking
to wear a wire and then try to get him
to confess.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Well, and because Osama had years left on his sentence,
so it's not like, well, I'm going to be out
of here in six months anyway if I get caught. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
So he befriended George Avilatories and he started by flattering him,
just telling him that he was so impressed with his
crimes and this worked.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
You know, he was like, you're such a genius if
you wrote a book about everything you did. I would
read it, oh my gosh, and it works. So then
George of Vilatoris starts saying, well, they don't even know
half of it, and I've done so much more. He
admits that he's not just a rapist and a kidnapper,
but he's also a murderer, and he's proud of this.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Oh so proud. He's like gloating, Yeah, that has to
be so hard for someone to listen to. Yeah, totally
screwed up.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
And in order to get him to keep talking, he's
having to be like, that's so cool, Like it's amazing
that you got away with it. Elatari ends up getting
a Villatorre's saying on tape that he killed Navy petty
Officer Amanda Snell in two thousand and nine. She was
twenty years old and also stationed at Joint Base Meyer
(26:30):
Henderson Hall, just down the dorm hall from him.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
And at this point in Amanda's case, was she disappeared
or did they know that she had been a victim
of fel player so her murder was unsolved, but they
knew that she had been murdered. Yes, she was.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Found dead in her room. Her cause of death after
an autopsy was determined to be asphyxiation, and it was
just clear based on the scene, and investigators didn't have questions.
They knew that there was foul play involved. There had
actually been an investigation on the military base at the time,
and tons of people were questioned, including George of Villa Tooris,
(27:10):
and he agreed to the questioning at the time. He
allowed his room to be searched. He even provided a
DNA sample. Be interesting to know if he was polygraphed. Yeah,
but at the time, for whatever reason, I wasn't able
to find out. They weren't able to connect him to it.
But then you know, once he was arrested for these
other violent and sexually violent crimes, they started to look
(27:34):
at him again, especially because he was, you know, in
such close proximity to where Amanda lived. Right, he confessed
on tape. Now that gets a little tricky because with
jailhouse confessions you don't always know if they're true. You know,
was he the kind of guy who would just brag
about something.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
When you say he confessed on tape, you're talking about
to Osama. Yes, right, No, one confessed during their investigation,
much of questioning. So he denied it when he was
questioned initially in the initial investigation and was not charged
or arrested or anything. But once he was in prison
(28:14):
for the crimes he committed in Arlington, the attack and
kidnapp being an attempted murder, they started to look at
him again because he literally like lived down the hall
from Amanda. I believe that this is why one of
the things that they wanted osama El Atari to ask
him about, and he did, and he admitted to it.
(28:36):
He admitted that he did kill Amanda snow. Jailhouse confessions, though,
can be a little tricky, because how do you know
if someone is telling the truth. Is this the kind
of guy that would just brag about something that he
didn't actually do to seem cool so screwed up? It
seem intimidating. Yeah, you know, you're surrounded by people with
(28:58):
a criminal history.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah, that would be murky. Some of his details changed
when he talked about it, but it was still close
enough that it seemed very likely that he did kill her.
He also confessed to the attacks in Arlington as well,
so that was really helpful for investigators and prosecutors. And
(29:21):
we'll get to his trial because he's a waiting trial.
He hasn't yet been sentenced. Wow, he hasn't been convicted
of any of it yet, and he's just a waiting
trial for the Arlington attacks where he attempted to abduct
that first woman and then attacked those other two women
and one of them kidnapped, sexually assaulted, and attempted to
(29:42):
kill her.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
It's terrible.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
So he's waiting trial for all of that. And then
while he's in prison, he also admits to Osama el
Atari that he also murdered Amanda Snell the year before.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
But that's not all.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
He also tells Osama el Atari that he had commit
another crime years before.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Oh so, Osama was told by the people who were
working with him with the wire to get maybe confessions,
told him to ask about Amanda, but not this next
case that ends up coming up. I couldn't get that
information exactly, but that's my guess from what I've read,
is that they wanted him to get a more detailed
(30:23):
confession about the Arlington crimes that he had been charged with.
Then they also had suspicions that he might be involved
in Amanda Snow's murder. And I'm not sure if this
other crime was on their radar at the time or not,
because it seems like multiple things kind of happened at once. Okay,
But George essentially tells Osama el Atari that he committed
(30:48):
a double homicide back in two thousand and five when
he was sixteen years old. That's unimaginable, yeah, at any age,
but at sixteen, it's really horrible.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
He was living in Zion, Illinois at the time, and
he admitted to murdering Laara Hobbs and Crystal Tobias, who
were eight and nine years old. It's just horrible. It's
so sad. They were brutally stabbed. And what happened with
that case back in two thousand and five, when the
(31:22):
girls didn't come home, there was a search party sent
out and Laura's father, Jerry Hobbs, ended up finding their
remains at a park. It was gruesome and horrible, and
very quickly he became a suspect and was questioned by police.
He had a criminal record and had recently gotten out
(31:45):
of prison. There was DNA at the crime scene. Ultimately,
when they tested it, it did not match Jerry Hobbes.
But I also read somewhere that there was some of
his DNA on Laura, his daughter, which is kind of like, yeah,
because they were living in the same house, you know,
that could easily be possible. But Jerry Hobbs confessed to
(32:07):
the crime. So when George's in prison telling Osama El
Atari that he committed these crimes, he said, I was like, damn,
I'm clean, I'm good. When he heard that Jerry Hobbs
had confessed to the crime and he was bragging that
he had gotten away with it. He was able to
recount these murders in excruciating detail, and his story corresponded
(32:32):
with the autopsies of the girls, so it was pretty
clear that he did do this. Around this same time,
the DNA from that crime scene was tested and it
was matched to George of Vila Torrez.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Oh my gosh, and the father of Lara Hobbes. Jerry Hobbs,
he had been charged or sentenced.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
While he'd been charged and he was awaiting trial, but
he had been in prison for five years.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Oh my god. Yeah, he had been in jail five
years well, mourning the loss of his daughter and her
friend and knowing he didn't do this, and that means
that someone who did isn't doing their own time for it.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Well, the guy who did Georgia vi Latoris went on
to kill Amanda Snow and then to attack three more women.
Oh right, because he was only sixteen, we're going back
into yeah, yeah, so he wasn't caught like back in
two thousand and five, and then he went on to
do maybe even more we don't know of. I mean,
it's devastating, devastating. So Jerry Hobbs eventually was exonerated, according
(33:48):
to the Innocence Project. When he was released, he was
told by officers that they were releasing him because they
couldn't prove his guilt with that reasonable doubt. People were
really convinced that he had done this. He was dubbed
Monster Hobbs by media outlets, and everyone just really thought
that he did it, and he did it.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
He did sign a.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Confession back in two thousand and five, but when you
look at those circumstances in which he signed it, he
had been out searching for his daughter for a long time.
He was incredibly stressed, he hadn't been sleeping. Then was
immediately implicated by law enforcement. They brought him in for
questioning and he was held for over twenty four hours
and Hobbes described that time as grueling interrogation, at the
(34:33):
end of which he signed a coerced confession, which he
later recanted. And you know, at the time, law enforcement
thought he was guilty for a variety of reasons. They
said it was suspicious that he found the body of
the girls, like how did he know where to look? Also,
he had a criminal record. He had drug and domestic
violence charges, and at one point, you know, when he
(34:56):
lived back in Texas, he got into an argument with
someone and apparently chased them around a trailer park with
a chainsaw.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Wow, nobody should do that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
So it's not like anyone is saying, oh, this great
guy over here. But it reminds me of something that
Jennifer Thompson said when she said it doesn't help anyone
when the wrong person goes to prison for a crime. Yep,
it doesn't matter if you think that they were a
bad guy. You could look at Garry Hobbes and say
a lot of the stuff that he's done is bad,
(35:28):
but he didn't murder his daughter or Crystal, And he
had just recently gotten out of prison and joined his
family in Zion, Illinois before all of this happened. So
you know, he was implicated and arrested and charged, but
he was still in prison awaiting trial. And one of
the things that is pretty wild is that within i believe,
the first year of him being in prison, the DNA
(35:49):
that was collected from the crime scene was run against
his DNA and it wasn't a match.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
So there's two DNA samples on Laura Hobbs. One is
her father, Jaredry Hobbs, another is an unknown meal but
on her friend. I'd be curious to know was Jerry's
DNA also on her friend somehow, because it seems like
if they found two samples in one sample, regardless of
if they had a match, yet was on both, why
(36:15):
are you not pressing harder on your own theory.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Because they already had a theory, right, So, yes, there
was this other DNA sample that was on both of
the girl's bodies that was an unknown person. As part
of the signed confession that was given to Jerry Hobbs
to sign. Their theory was that he was mad at
his daughter for being outside because she was grounded, so
(36:39):
he came across them in the park and went into
a rage and started attacking his daughter, and that Crystal,
who was nine, had a knife on her that she
pulled out to protect them, and that was the knife
he used to kill them. I mean, it doesn't make
any sense. And also the knife was never found.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yeah. Did you find anything about Crystal's parents and if
they accepted Jerry as you know, they believed he had
done this. I'm not sure. This is a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yeah, but you have to imagine that when it came
out that the wrong person had been arrested, that that
was devastating for them. I'm sure you know. It's just
it's not good for anyone when that happens.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
And you're leaning on law enforcement to find the person
that committed these murders and to question them would be
really hard. It would put you in a difficult position,
maybe strain your relationship at a time when you want
to be communicated with.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, in twenty ten, And this is why I'm not
sure the exact timeline of events, because it's in twenty
ten when Osama El Atari wears a wire in prison
and gets this confession from George Avila Torres. It's also
in twenty ten when Jerry Hobbs's lawyers finally secure a
go ahead to run that DNA through a national database
(38:00):
hadn't happened yet. That has to make you a question
as well, like how much did they really want to
solve this?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Right? If you have the ability to do that, don't
you want to know? Also, even if you're totally convinced
that Jerry Hobbs was there, he did it, if there's
male DNA on both of these girls, was someone with him?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
And don't you want to know? Doesn't that matter to you? Yeah,
you would think that, right. So they finally run it
and it is a match with George of Villatores. You know,
remember back when there was an investigation into Amanda Snell's murder,
he had agreed to give a DNA sample, so his
DNA again was taken when he was arrested for the
Arlington crimes, so it was in the system at that time.
(38:42):
It was a match. In twenty ten, Jerry Hobbs was
exonerated and eventually received a seven point seventy five million
dollar settlement.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
You know, seven point seventy five million dollars, that's so
much money. But when you think about the trauma of
what this person went through to lou their daughter and
her friend in the most brutal way, and then to
be targeted by law enforcement wrongly having been in custody
for this, and the court of public opinion can be
(39:14):
extremely rough.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Especially since he had a criminal record. I don't know,
sometimes I feel like there's just not as much sympathy
for people. It doesn't matter. He still was imprisoned for
five years for something he didn't do and blamed for
his own daughter's murder. It's horrible, Yeah, I mean, regardless
of someone's past, that's an incredible loss. So as far
as Georgia Vilatores, in October of twenty ten, he was
(39:39):
found guilty of rape and kidnapping charges and sentenced to
five life sentences without parole plus one hundred and sixty
eight years, and that was just for the Arlington crimes.
In twenty eleven, he was charged by federal authorities with
the death of Amanda Snell, and in twenty fourteen, a
federal jury, back by the jailhouse confession and Osama El
(40:03):
Atari's testimony and the DNA evidence, sentenced him to death
for the Snell murder, making him the first person since
two thousand and seven to receive such a verdict. But
actually just last year his descendences was commuted, so he's
no longer on death row, but he will serve the
rest of his life in prison. And then in twenty eighteen,
(40:25):
he faced trial for the murders of Laura Hobbs and
Crystal Tobias, the girls in Illinois, and he pled guilty.
You know, it seemed like he pled guilty instead of
going to trial. It was very clear that he did it,
and in exchanged for his plea, he was given one
hundred years imprisonment and he was able to transfer out
of a prison, which he didn't like being And at
(40:46):
the time, I think one of the reasons they did
this is that osama El Atari's testimony was really helpful
in getting a conviction for him with Amanda Snell's murder,
and it would have been really helpful with the double
murder of Laura Hobbs and christ Tobias if that had
gone to trial, but unfortunately osama El Atari was no
longer alive at that point. He bled guilty and he
(41:08):
was sentenced for that as well. So he's been convicted
on all of those charges. And you know, at that
sentence scene hearing the justice told him, you're a serial
killer and We don't know if there are other crimes
that are connected to him or not, but he will
spend the rest of his life in prison.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
It has to be such a balance for the prosecutors
who are working on a case like this one, because
once you sentence someone to one hundred years, I mean,
a hundred year sentence is like even that's a small
price to pay still for what he has done. But
you also are then losing your leverage to find out
(41:47):
about others and maybe close more cases that are out
there that possibly he was involved with, and that has
to be a difficult thing to reconcile.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Well, couldn't he, in theory still be charged.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yeah, but I would think he'd be way less inclined
to give them any information. But I guess with the
you know, technology and advancements with DNA, maybe they don't
even need it.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
You're right, he would have no incentive because he's never
going to get.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Out of here. He's never going to get out of prison,
and he shouldn't exactly. Yeah, so Osama had passed away
at this point, but after Osama brought them these confessions
from Georgia Villa Torres, do we know was part of that.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Agreement and then you're getting me to a new location.
I'm not one hundred percent sure about that. But his
prison sentence was cut in half basically, so he was
released from prison in twenty fourteen, and he served less
than half of his sentence, so he was out by
twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
It's so mindflowing that you could have someone like Georgia
Villa Torres who's committed these heinous murders and attempted murders
in the same place as someone who's committing financial fraud,
because both are illegal, but they're very different.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Yeah, and I think it was maybe because they were
in a jail. I don't know that would have been
their long term holding places. They were both happened to
be in this jail at the same time, but yeah,
I mean it is wild. So to wrap up Osama
al Atari's story, he got out of prison in twenty fourteen,
and the majority of the money that he borrowed has
(43:22):
never been recovered. They recovered a couple of million, but
they were like, where's the rest of the money? So
two years later, in February of twenty sixteen, his family
reported him missing to authorities and there was a search.
They ended up finding his body in his Chevy truck
(43:42):
in a rundown industrial area of Capital Heights, Maryland. He
had been shot, and they were pretty sure that he
had been murdered because his rolex was missing. He was
thirty seven years old. His family said that after he
was released from prison, he had been operating a construction
materials business, and they also said it would be very
(44:04):
strange that he wouldn't be wearing his rolex, so that
was suspicious. The Prince George County Police Department interviewed multiple
people who had been in contact with him recently, and
one of them was a man named Donald Clay. It
came out that this guy, who they weren't even sure
how he was connected to Osama el Atari, but they
(44:25):
knew that he knew him, and it seems like Donald
Clay had become convinced that Osama had stashed millions of
dollars in an offshore account and then had concocted this
plan to get him to give him the money. So
Donald Clay created his own offshore bank account then lured
Osama Eltari to this empty industrial area of Capitol Heights, Maryland.
(44:50):
On February eleventh, twenty sixteen, where he was waiting with
two armed men, and they basically kidnapped osama El Atari,
took him into an abandoned house and attempted to coerce
him into transferring the money. The police aren't really sure,
like maybe he didn't have money, maybe he did and
(45:10):
he refused to transfer it. But somewhere along the way
the plan went awry and they ended up killing him.
So all three men were arrested and charged. I don't
know if they know for sure, but they're pretty sure
that this was like an independent plan. That these guys
knew osama El Atari. They had heard that he had
(45:31):
taken money from a bank. Everybody in the community really
knew that. But it is interesting to note that you
know years before. In a letter to the judge who
ordered his early release, osama Elatari wrote that he was
nervous about George Avila Tourre's potentially taking revenge on him.
He said, he told me about plans to eliminate witnesses
(45:54):
in his upcoming trial based on his past. I knew
he would not hesitate to kill me, but I continued
to assist anyway because I knew it was the right
thing to do. At this point, Osama El Atari had
been a witness in the case to convict Georgia Villa
Tooris of Aman of Snell's murder, but the case and
(46:15):
the trial for the double murder of the girls hadn't
taken place yet, so you know, you have to wonder.
But I wasn't able to find anything so connect that.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Okay, So as far as we know, Donald Clay had
no connection to Georgia Villa Torres, just an associate who
thought he could get in on some of this money. Yeah,
so they never found it, and as millions and millions
of dollars yep, and Donald didn't get any of it.
His plan didn't work, and he committed a horrific murder
(46:45):
and the money is still hidden.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
So you know, kind of a winding story. I thought
it was really interesting how the dots all connected. Probably
people have heard of Georgia of vilatoris potentially at this
point because he is a serial killer. But I just
really thought that it was interesting the way that Osama
El Atari's story connected with his, and he was in
(47:10):
prison for stealing millions of dollars but then also helped
to secure a conviction for a serial killer. Whether or
not he did it for his own gain or for
the greater good.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
You know, you could debate that, but yeah, I mean,
I think it's something we come back to a lot
in our interviews where we hear these heavy stories and
most people have good and bad and maybe he did
feel it was the right thing to do in addition
to knowing it would help him. And it sounds like
Osama El Atari committed this financial fraud and he sends
(47:44):
to twelve years but he found a way to lessen
his sentence that I think he's right it was the
right thing to do.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, So that is the story that I brought to
tell you today.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
That story had so many moving parts and I'm surprised
I have hadn't heard more about it. And it sounds
like you came across a helpful FBI AffA davit. But
otherwise people wouldn't talk to you either, and I guess
it's just one of those things. Yeah, thanks for listening.
We'll be back next week with an interview. If you
(48:18):
have a story for us, we would love to hear it.
Our email is The Knife at exactlyrightmedia dot com, or
you can follow us on Instagram at The Knife Podcast
or Blue Sky at the Knife Podcast.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
This has been an exactly right production. Hosted and produced
by me Hannah Smith.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
And me paytia Ety. Our producers are Tom Bryfogel and
Alexis Samarosi.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Artwork by Vanessa Lilac.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Executive produced by Karen Kilgareth Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.
This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.
(00:20):
Hello and welcome. This is the Knife Off Record. I'm
Patia Eton and I'm Hannah Smith. Today we're going to
talk about a fraud case that turned into a much
bigger story than it appeared at face value. But first
we're going to discuss a book that Patia and I
both read and love and we think you will love
as well.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
We read it and we listened. We did? Which one
did we do? Actually? Listened? I listened? Yeah, I didn't read. That?
Does that count as reading? I don't know. My mom's
a librarian, so I'm going to tell her I read it. Yeah,
I think it counts.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
The book is called There Is No Ethan How Three
Women Uncovered America's Biggest Catfish by Anna Akbari, and the
basic synops this is that Anna takes us through an
experience she had meeting this man named Ethan Schumann on
an online dating platform Okaycupid in late twenty ten. I
think of this period of time as like there were
(01:14):
so many catfishing experiences happening. We didn't really know yet
to be aware of this or to be wary of it.
And I feel like I've just listened to and heard
so many stories of people being conned around this time period.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
It was such a new moment for online dating. I
actually met my husband online in twenty thirteen, and it
was still so new that I remember when people would
ask us how we met, we would sort of dodge
the question because it was almost like embarrassing. I know.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I was actually just thinking about that the other day.
It feels like not that long ago, but it was
so unusual back then, and it was I remember. I
remember meeting people who had said we met online, and
I was like, Oh, that's kind of cool and weird
and interesting.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
And what's wrong with you? Yeah, because we met online
when you couldn't even log into the app on your phone.
You were getting on your computer, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
And I think this was the same with this story
with there is no Ethan, she's logging into the computer,
okaycubit around this time.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
So this book is.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Part Anna talking about her personal experience being scammed, and
then it's also part investigative. It really feels like a podcast,
except it's a book.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
It's a book, and that means we read it, whether
or not we listened or read it and yeah, listening
to it and putting yourself back in that place of
wanting to meet someone and being really hopeful when you
have chemistry, which we all know can exist digitally, but
being on the forefront of that and not knowing how
(02:56):
to level your own expectations.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
According Yeah, and when you want something so badly, it's
really easy to sort of make excuses. I spent many
years on the online dating platforms, and I can tell
you it is harrowing at times. I've quite pressing so
much worse. I thought you were going to say, gotten
so much better. No, it was like, no, it has not.
(03:21):
No one's out there saying this is such a great experience.
They loved dating on them, but it is the modern way.
I loved listening to this book because it felt like
I was listening to an extended podcast that I had
hours of, and that is a joy. They have an
actor do the voice of Ethan, which I thought was good.
I thought they did a good job and it was
(03:42):
really engaging. And then Anna goes on to talk about
how she connects with these other women who are also
victims of the same person, and it really pays off.
So listen to the very end because unlike some stories
where you don't get answers, you do get answers here,
which is you know, enticing.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
These victims get all of the answers and well, I
guess you know, all compared to maybe many other victims
of catfishing frauds. But the reveal is mind blowing. It
truly is someone you would never expect, which, as you're
rethinking about the story that you listen to, is like
(04:22):
she could never have anticipated the outcome of this. You know,
there are red flags and a lot of relationships and
maybe some people's minds take it to a worst case scenario.
I don't even think anyone could have anticipated where this
was going. Yeah, I agree, it's a great listen. We
highly recommend it, thrilling all the way through. And I
(04:45):
actually have another recommendation, oh, Patia, Okay, coming in with
two recommendations. Two recommendations today. This one is the con
Caitlin's Baby. Okay, I've not heard of this all right,
So this is about a woman named Caitlin. Who is
this a podcast? This is a podcast? Okay, this is
a podcast the Conkaitlyn's Baby, and it's about a young
(05:07):
woman named Caitlin who reaches out to doulas and both
in person, and virtually utilizes their services over and over
and over again through extreme situations like pregnancy, loss, rape,
and medical events like a coma. You know, they revealed
(05:30):
pretty early on not everything is as it seems, But
the story is just a world I knew nothing about doulas,
like this online community of people that you can reach
out to for birth support no matter where you're at
in your pregnancy. And you know, this is a line
of work you get into if you're super passionate about it,
(05:51):
and you would never imagine someone taking advantage. So these
doulas were having very intimate experiences with someone that they
were trying to help who was misleading them in a
major way, And it just blew my mind. The extent
this person went to to mislead people was so egregious.
(06:12):
And you know, there's a reveal at the end of
someone very close to her that maybe knew it was
happening that I found especially surprising. It's a great listen.
The story moves really quickly, and there was a lot
I didn't know about that world that I think I
have a much better understanding of. Now.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Wow, that sounds really great. I'll definitely check that out. Yeah,
so you didn't have a doula.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I didn't have a doula. No, I didn't know what
they were. I just did it the old fashioned way
with a lot of drugs. Great. However you choose to
do it is great. Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I mean we've talked a lot about like medical fraud
and stories in that world, but I never heard about
someone conning a doula before. So yeah, that's definitely intriguing.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah. I mean, and you're in a way seeking it's
not medical support, Like these people are not doctors, but
I think birth is maybe referred to as a routine
medical event or a routine health event, and it does
surprise me that this sort of in between is there
for these moments that are very close to birth.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Thanks for the recommendation. I always love a good podcast recommendation,
so I will check it out.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Okay, So I have a story to tell you today,
and it's kind of in multiple parts. I thought of
this story recently because last week we had a great
interview with Jennifer Thompson. If you haven't heard that yet,
go check it out. It made me think back to
(07:52):
this story because a wrongful conviction does play a role,
so I wanted to talk to you about it today.
This is a story that I heard about months and
months and months ago, I don't know, a year ago,
and I have been intrigued by it. It kind of
falls into that category of I made some calls and
wasn't able to find anyone to do an interview for
(08:13):
this story.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah. I remember when you initially found the story and
you told me just a little bit about it. But
like you said, you made some calls and we had
kind of moved on. So I'm really excited to hear Okay.
So the first part of this story takes place in Virginia,
and most of the information I'm getting here is from
an FBI affidavit, as well as an article from Washington
(08:38):
City Paper called King of Ashburn That is a great
article written in twenty sixteen. This is a story about
a man named Osama El Atari. He grew up in
Virginia in the eighties and nineties in a middle class
family and then became this notable restaurant owner in Ashbourne, Virginia.
By the early two thousands, he was pretty well known
(09:01):
amongst his community, and he owned multiple restaurants, including Lucky's,
a sports theater and grill. I never heard the term
sports theater before, but I think it's just like a
sports bar. A sports theater. How did you heard that before?
And then two locations of a place called the Original
Steakhouse and sports theater also a sports theater? Are they
(09:22):
performing the sports?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
The Original Steakhouse in sports Theater is described as half
booth restaurant and half sports bar. I love a booth.
I love a booth too. Any restaurant with a booth,
I'm in, I'm in. I don't even care what they're serving.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
No, they're great. They coral toddlers. Oh yeah, that is
another great use, huge selling point for me. Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
It's also noted that his family owned multiple Buffalo wing
factory locations, so it seemed like the restaurant business was
kind of the family business, and then he got into it,
and by all accounts, he was really successful. He was
also a very flashy guy. He love a good sports car.
Around two thousand and eight he owned two Lamborghinis, two Ferraris,
(10:07):
and a Rolls Royce Phantom, which I looked that up
because I know nothing about cars. A Rolls Royce Phantom
today can be as much as like four hundred to
five hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So many, many many of my current car, which is
easily the nicest I've ever had, and many many more
of the pres I had for twelve years before this.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, that's well over a million dollars in cars what
he had. And at this point he owned three restaurants,
which seemed to be busy, but you have to kind
of wonder, Okay, well, how much money are you really
making here? According to the Washington City Paper article, he
bought a mansion that had seven bathrooms that was seven
five hundred and ninety square feet for four point five
(10:49):
million dollars, and then he also bought a football jersey
at a charity auction for twenty five thousand dollars. It
was the jersey of NFL player Sean Taylor, who actually
was murdered in his home in two thousand and seven.
So you know, he was definitely spending money. His friends
and family said that he spent money in a charitable way.
(11:09):
Mostly he bought things for people around him. He sponsored
local sports teams. He was seen as a very generous
person and was upstanding, this well to do guy in
his community. He did get into some trouble with the
law when it comes to driving. He got a lot
of traffic tickets for driving his cars too fast, for speeding.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Well, you have to wonder, you have all of these
sports cars, where are you going?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, I mean, if you have them, you think you
would want to drive them?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, I mean mine would have you know, I would
be going to the grocery store and back just as
fast as you can. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
So he did have traffic violations. He did a short
sent in jail even for a traffic violation, but other
than that, he seemed to be on the straight and narrow.
But then he started to take out bank loans. The
first one is in December of two thousand and seven,
he secured a five million dollar loan from United Bank,
and the purpose stated on his loan application was to
(12:07):
acquire two more original steakhouse locations in Maryland. He provided
two cash value life insurance policies to the bank as
collateral for this loan, and each of those was valued
at over three million dollars. But what didn't come out
till later was that, you know, he would not have
been able to secure this loan if it weren't for
(12:30):
someone at the bank. The assistant vice president of United
Bank saw these life insurance policies and immediately flagged that
they were fake. And instead of flagging this at the bank,
he met up at a Starbucks with Osama El Atari
and essentially said I want in on this, Like, I
know you're up to something. Yeah, something is happening here.
(12:53):
I don't really think that you're going to use this
money for these restaurants, and basically said, I want in
on your scheme.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Well, and then if you're Osama, what choice do you
have but to agree because you're up to something. And
now this person that the bank knows that's a great point.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, So this assistant vice president of the bank created
a fake accountant, Gordon Leipzig.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I don't know if I'm saying that right. Well, it
doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
He's a big person that he created and fixed the
life insurance policies to make them look convincing and then
was able. Osama was able to get this loan in exchange,
she gave him a one hundred and fifty thousand dollars kickback.
Classic Yes, and he was able to use these doctored
life insurance policies to then go to other banks and
(13:43):
get additional loans, so he continued to get loans. He
also continued to get loans from a United Bank in
a total of seventeen million dollars.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
And the guy from the Starbucks meetup is in on
these other loan acquisitions. I don't know if he is.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
All I could find was that he was in on
that first one and got that kick back. Okay, But
at this point then Osama already had the faked documents
that were convincing and looked real, so he could use
those right to get other loans. And from the investigation,
it looks like he started to spend the money pretty
immediately on cars as well as the home that he bought,
(14:18):
and then it became this like catch up game where
he wasn't able to pay back these loans, so then
he started to get more loans. And you can sort
of get the feeling that the scam can go for
a certain amount of time, but there's going to be
an end point where he's not able to pay anything back.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Right, is he thinking he'll just forever go make fake
life insurance policies to get loans?
Speaker 1 (14:42):
This is the big question I have with every fraud
story we do is what is the end goal?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
It's like, what is your plan? There is no plan.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, you live large and you have fun and then
at some point it has to stop, right, I want
to sleep that well at night. You too, so you know,
of course things are going to come to a head.
By early two thousand and nine, he'd taken loans out
from seven different banks in a total of around seventy
million dollars.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
And okay, I would love to have seventy million dollars,
but what are you doing with it?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
It's you had a large amount of money.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah. We were just talking about what tabs we needed
to close in our computers, and mine is always old Navy. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I mean you could get a lot of shirts, yeah,
for seventy million. So he's got a lot of money.
The banks are catching on and they're demanding their money back.
And in May of two thousand and nine, United Bank
realizes that the life insurance documents were faked, and authorities
show up to Asama's house and he is not there.
(15:44):
He has fled. They did find eighteen big screen televisions. Okay,
I do want to come back to the eighteen televisions.
I have so many questions. But is United Bank?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Remind me the first bank he secured the loan from, Yes,
and that is the bank where we know someone else
at the bank knew about it.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, the assistant vice president. I don't know if he
was still at the bank. Okay at that time. He
will come back into this later.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Eighteen big screen televisions, and I don't quite recall, but
I'm guessing they were those enormous box televisions at that time.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yeah, because two thousand and nine they're not like as
thin as they are now.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
They're not the frame TVs. No. Now, actually I don't
even think we call them big screens anymore. Right, Wow,
So okay, eighteen of them.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
So then he goes on the run, and there's eight
months where he's unaccounted for. He's on the run, and
no one knows exactly where he went. At one point,
investigators in Brazil supposedly found a death certificate for him
and a passport, but when it was looked into further,
it was clear that that wasn't real and he'd actually
(16:54):
bribed someone in Brazil to try to fake his death.
In June of two thousand and nine, he was charged
in Centia with bank fraud. So they still didn't know
where he was, but it was clear he'd done this.
He's charged, and then in January of twenty ten, he
was found in Texas at a Ferrari dealership.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Oh my gosh, a true like car shopping compulsion. Yeah,
I mean he loved cars. I just wonder wouldn't he
want to be a little more incognito.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah, I don't know. It's strange, but that's where he
was found. It also makes you wonder about the money,
you know, like is there money?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Where did he put it? Like is he physically carrying
around all that cash? Surely not? Surely not. But how's
he Yeah, how's he buying the car?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
So in April of twenty ten, he pled guilty to
three counts of bank fraud and one count of money laundering,
and he was sentenced to twelve years in prison, followed
by five years of supervised release, and was sent to
serve time at the Arlington County Jail. So this brings
us to the second part of the story. Almost as
(18:10):
soon as he's arrested, he starts trying to strike deals.
He immediately turns in the United Bank assistant vice president.
Oh my gosh, who had helped him doctor the life
insurance policies.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Okay, he's like, if I'm going now and you're going
down with me.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, And once he's serving time, he seems to be
on alert for any like jailhouse confessions that he can hear.
He tells authorities at one point that he overheard this
guy claiming to be involved in a terrorist smuggling operation.
He provides details to them that one didn't end up
(18:45):
leading to an arrest, but it sets the scene that
he is very clearly someone who has you know, notified
law enforcement authorities that he is available.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Oh, I see. So he's listening, Like, what can I
give them an change for maybe some leniency? Yeah, So
he's on the lookout. He's on the lookout.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
He's like, if I can basically go undercover, I'm a
prisoner here, but if there's anyone you're trying to get
information out of, I'm your guy, Like, I'll do whatever.
I'll wear a wire if it can get me out
of prison sooner. I don't know that I would think
to do this, but if I did, I would try.
You would try. I would do anything. Yeah, you know
it could be a dangerous thing to do. But uh,
(19:26):
this is what he does, and pretty soon he gets
the chance to do it. He ends up in a
cell next to George Avila Torres, and people might recognize
that name because he is now considered to be a
serial killer. I want to note that his name is
spelled Jorge. I looked this up because people kept calling
(19:47):
him George, and he said that he goes by both
Jorge and George. At one point an officer asked him
which he preferred, and he said George. It sounds like
he went by Jorge with his family, So I'm going
to call him George. But that is the situation with
his name.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
So he is also in Arlington County jail awaiting trial.
In twenty ten, George A. Villa Torres was arrested and
charged with crimes committed in Arlington. The first one on
February tenth, twenty ten, he attempted to abduct and assault
a twenty six year old woman who is unnamed in
(20:27):
court documents. She was walking to her boyfriend's house. He
came up behind her, grabbed her jacket and kind of
flashed that he was holding a gun. They had a
struggle and she just said, you know, do you want
my money? Take my purse, but he kept pulling her
(20:48):
toward a Tan Dodge Durango. She was actually able to
sort of shove her purse toward him and leave it
and run away and escape from him. She had a
friend who lived a couple houses down, and so she
just ran into her friend's house. They immediately called the
police and she made a report. She reported what he
(21:09):
looked like. She had clocked his vehicle as well. That
is terrifying, so scary. So then you know, the police
started to search. They didn't find anyone immediately, and they
never found her purse. Two weeks later, close by, two
female graduate students who are also unnamed in the court
(21:29):
documents were walking to one of their homes when he
emerged from behind a parked car, and it was the
same thing kind of. He immediately flashed that he had
a gun. He demanded their wallets. They said they didn't
have them on them, so he forced them to go
into the house. He tied them up. One of them
was able to kind of get loose and make a
(21:51):
call to nine one one with her cell phone. And
this is twenty ten again, so like the cell phone
situation is different than we have now. He then got
her phone, threw it against the wall and smashed it,
and then took one of these women outside into his vehicle,
the same Tan Dodge Durango, and drove her to a
(22:13):
remote area. He sexually assaulted her, then tied a scarf
around her neck and attempted to kill her. She lost consciousness,
but then woke up outside in the snow and was alive,
and a passerby stopped and found her. She immediately made
a police report, and based on her description of him
(22:34):
as well as the vehicle, law enforcement pretty quickly realized
this was the same person who had just tried to
attack a woman two weeks prior. Arlington County Police had
also made a note that a few days before they
had observed this guy in the same type of vehicle
out like stalking women. He looked really suspicious and it
(22:57):
was Georgia Villa Torres. They were able to locate him
pretty quickly and arrested him on February twenty seventh, twenty ten,
at Joint Base Meyer Henderson Hall, which is a residence
hall on a military base. He was a marine at
the time. They searched his vehicle and found the school
id of the woman that he attempted to murder, and
(23:20):
when they searched his barracks they found a gun and
incriminating content on his computer that was sexually violent.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Wow. So they found him based on the witness identification
of him and of his car. Yes, Yeah, they didn't
have a name or anything, but they must have had.
Maybe they're just searching like a Tan what was it,
a Bronco Dodge Durango, A Dodge Durango, a Tan Dodge Durango,
And that's how they found him. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
How old was he? He was in his early twenties.
I think he was twenty one at the time.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, they did take DNA samples from him. He was
charged and was awaiting trial at the time. When he
encounters Osama El Atari in prison, they are in cells
next to each other. And it's unclear to me exactly
(24:12):
why they wanted him to wear a wire. I believe
that investigators wondered if he was connected to a third murder,
and they also just wanted more evidence to be able to,
you know, get a clean conviction. So Osama El Atari agreed.
He told investigators he thought that this guy was a monster.
(24:35):
He had already encountered him and had a really low
opinion of him. But he was like, great, I'll do it.
I'll wear a wire and I'll befriend this guy.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Osama must be really good at keeping his school.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, exactly. Well, the guy that was able to convince
banks to give him seventy million dollars of course kind
of be like a smooth talker. Yeah, you know, yeah,
gets people to trust him.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Wow. You also are like, if anyone finds out that
I'm wearing a wire, I will never live it down here.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
This guy is clearly like a violent, you know, dangerous
person or has done violent and dangerous things. So yeah,
you have to assume it would be very nerve wracking
to wear a wire and then try to get him
to confess.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Well, and because Osama had years left on his sentence,
so it's not like, well, I'm going to be out
of here in six months anyway if I get caught. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
So he befriended George Avilatories and he started by flattering him,
just telling him that he was so impressed with his
crimes and this worked.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
You know, he was like, you're such a genius if
you wrote a book about everything you did. I would
read it, oh my gosh, and it works. So then
George of Vilatoris starts saying, well, they don't even know
half of it, and I've done so much more. He
admits that he's not just a rapist and a kidnapper,
but he's also a murderer, and he's proud of this.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Oh so proud. He's like gloating, Yeah, that has to
be so hard for someone to listen to. Yeah, totally
screwed up.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
And in order to get him to keep talking, he's
having to be like, that's so cool, Like it's amazing
that you got away with it. Elatari ends up getting
a Villatorre's saying on tape that he killed Navy petty
Officer Amanda Snell in two thousand and nine. She was
twenty years old and also stationed at Joint Base Meyer
(26:30):
Henderson Hall, just down the dorm hall from him.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
And at this point in Amanda's case, was she disappeared
or did they know that she had been a victim
of fel player so her murder was unsolved, but they
knew that she had been murdered. Yes, she was.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Found dead in her room. Her cause of death after
an autopsy was determined to be asphyxiation, and it was
just clear based on the scene, and investigators didn't have questions.
They knew that there was foul play involved. There had
actually been an investigation on the military base at the time,
and tons of people were questioned, including George of Villa Tooris,
(27:10):
and he agreed to the questioning at the time. He
allowed his room to be searched. He even provided a
DNA sample. Be interesting to know if he was polygraphed. Yeah,
but at the time, for whatever reason, I wasn't able
to find out. They weren't able to connect him to it.
But then you know, once he was arrested for these
other violent and sexually violent crimes, they started to look
(27:34):
at him again, especially because he was, you know, in
such close proximity to where Amanda lived. Right, he confessed
on tape. Now that gets a little tricky because with
jailhouse confessions you don't always know if they're true. You know,
was he the kind of guy who would just brag
about something.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
When you say he confessed on tape, you're talking about
to Osama. Yes, right, No, one confessed during their investigation,
much of questioning. So he denied it when he was
questioned initially in the initial investigation and was not charged
or arrested or anything. But once he was in prison
(28:14):
for the crimes he committed in Arlington, the attack and
kidnapp being an attempted murder, they started to look at
him again because he literally like lived down the hall
from Amanda. I believe that this is why one of
the things that they wanted osama El Atari to ask
him about, and he did, and he admitted to it.
(28:36):
He admitted that he did kill Amanda snow. Jailhouse confessions, though,
can be a little tricky, because how do you know
if someone is telling the truth. Is this the kind
of guy that would just brag about something that he
didn't actually do to seem cool so screwed up? It
seem intimidating. Yeah, you know, you're surrounded by people with
(28:58):
a criminal history.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah, that would be murky. Some of his details changed
when he talked about it, but it was still close
enough that it seemed very likely that he did kill her.
He also confessed to the attacks in Arlington as well,
so that was really helpful for investigators and prosecutors. And
(29:21):
we'll get to his trial because he's a waiting trial.
He hasn't yet been sentenced. Wow, he hasn't been convicted
of any of it yet, and he's just a waiting
trial for the Arlington attacks where he attempted to abduct
that first woman and then attacked those other two women
and one of them kidnapped, sexually assaulted, and attempted to
(29:42):
kill her.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
It's terrible.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
So he's waiting trial for all of that. And then
while he's in prison, he also admits to Osama el
Atari that he also murdered Amanda Snell the year before.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
But that's not all.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
He also tells Osama el Atari that he had commit
another crime years before.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Oh so, Osama was told by the people who were
working with him with the wire to get maybe confessions,
told him to ask about Amanda, but not this next
case that ends up coming up. I couldn't get that
information exactly, but that's my guess from what I've read,
is that they wanted him to get a more detailed
(30:23):
confession about the Arlington crimes that he had been charged with.
Then they also had suspicions that he might be involved
in Amanda Snow's murder. And I'm not sure if this
other crime was on their radar at the time or not,
because it seems like multiple things kind of happened at once. Okay,
But George essentially tells Osama el Atari that he committed
(30:48):
a double homicide back in two thousand and five when
he was sixteen years old. That's unimaginable, yeah, at any age,
but at sixteen, it's really horrible.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
He was living in Zion, Illinois at the time, and
he admitted to murdering Laara Hobbs and Crystal Tobias, who
were eight and nine years old. It's just horrible. It's
so sad. They were brutally stabbed. And what happened with
that case back in two thousand and five, when the
(31:22):
girls didn't come home, there was a search party sent
out and Laura's father, Jerry Hobbs, ended up finding their
remains at a park. It was gruesome and horrible, and
very quickly he became a suspect and was questioned by police.
He had a criminal record and had recently gotten out
(31:45):
of prison. There was DNA at the crime scene. Ultimately,
when they tested it, it did not match Jerry Hobbes.
But I also read somewhere that there was some of
his DNA on Laura, his daughter, which is kind of like, yeah,
because they were living in the same house, you know,
that could easily be possible. But Jerry Hobbs confessed to
(32:07):
the crime. So when George's in prison telling Osama El
Atari that he committed these crimes, he said, I was like, damn,
I'm clean, I'm good. When he heard that Jerry Hobbs
had confessed to the crime and he was bragging that
he had gotten away with it. He was able to
recount these murders in excruciating detail, and his story corresponded
(32:32):
with the autopsies of the girls, so it was pretty
clear that he did do this. Around this same time,
the DNA from that crime scene was tested and it
was matched to George of Vila Torrez.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Oh my gosh, and the father of Lara Hobbes. Jerry Hobbs,
he had been charged or sentenced.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
While he'd been charged and he was awaiting trial, but
he had been in prison for five years.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Oh my god. Yeah, he had been in jail five
years well, mourning the loss of his daughter and her
friend and knowing he didn't do this, and that means
that someone who did isn't doing their own time for it.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Well, the guy who did Georgia vi Latoris went on
to kill Amanda Snow and then to attack three more women.
Oh right, because he was only sixteen, we're going back
into yeah, yeah, so he wasn't caught like back in
two thousand and five, and then he went on to
do maybe even more we don't know of. I mean,
it's devastating, devastating. So Jerry Hobbs eventually was exonerated, according
(33:48):
to the Innocence Project. When he was released, he was
told by officers that they were releasing him because they
couldn't prove his guilt with that reasonable doubt. People were
really convinced that he had done this. He was dubbed
Monster Hobbs by media outlets, and everyone just really thought
that he did it, and he did it.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
He did sign a.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Confession back in two thousand and five, but when you
look at those circumstances in which he signed it, he
had been out searching for his daughter for a long time.
He was incredibly stressed, he hadn't been sleeping. Then was
immediately implicated by law enforcement. They brought him in for
questioning and he was held for over twenty four hours
and Hobbes described that time as grueling interrogation, at the
(34:33):
end of which he signed a coerced confession, which he
later recanted. And you know, at the time, law enforcement
thought he was guilty for a variety of reasons. They
said it was suspicious that he found the body of
the girls, like how did he know where to look? Also,
he had a criminal record. He had drug and domestic
violence charges, and at one point, you know, when he
(34:56):
lived back in Texas, he got into an argument with
someone and apparently chased them around a trailer park with
a chainsaw.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Wow, nobody should do that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
So it's not like anyone is saying, oh, this great
guy over here. But it reminds me of something that
Jennifer Thompson said when she said it doesn't help anyone
when the wrong person goes to prison for a crime. Yep,
it doesn't matter if you think that they were a
bad guy. You could look at Garry Hobbes and say
a lot of the stuff that he's done is bad,
(35:28):
but he didn't murder his daughter or Crystal, And he
had just recently gotten out of prison and joined his
family in Zion, Illinois before all of this happened. So
you know, he was implicated and arrested and charged, but
he was still in prison awaiting trial. And one of
the things that is pretty wild is that within i believe,
the first year of him being in prison, the DNA
(35:49):
that was collected from the crime scene was run against
his DNA and it wasn't a match.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
So there's two DNA samples on Laura Hobbs. One is
her father, Jaredry Hobbs, another is an unknown meal but
on her friend. I'd be curious to know was Jerry's
DNA also on her friend somehow, because it seems like
if they found two samples in one sample, regardless of
if they had a match, yet was on both, why
(36:15):
are you not pressing harder on your own theory.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Because they already had a theory, right, So, yes, there
was this other DNA sample that was on both of
the girl's bodies that was an unknown person. As part
of the signed confession that was given to Jerry Hobbs
to sign. Their theory was that he was mad at
his daughter for being outside because she was grounded, so
(36:39):
he came across them in the park and went into
a rage and started attacking his daughter, and that Crystal,
who was nine, had a knife on her that she
pulled out to protect them, and that was the knife
he used to kill them. I mean, it doesn't make
any sense. And also the knife was never found.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yeah. Did you find anything about Crystal's parents and if
they accepted Jerry as you know, they believed he had
done this. I'm not sure. This is a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yeah, but you have to imagine that when it came
out that the wrong person had been arrested, that that
was devastating for them. I'm sure you know. It's just
it's not good for anyone when that happens.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
And you're leaning on law enforcement to find the person
that committed these murders and to question them would be
really hard. It would put you in a difficult position,
maybe strain your relationship at a time when you want
to be communicated with.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, in twenty ten, And this is why I'm not
sure the exact timeline of events, because it's in twenty
ten when Osama El Atari wears a wire in prison
and gets this confession from George Avila Torres. It's also
in twenty ten when Jerry Hobbs's lawyers finally secure a
go ahead to run that DNA through a national database
(38:00):
hadn't happened yet. That has to make you a question
as well, like how much did they really want to
solve this?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Right? If you have the ability to do that, don't
you want to know? Also, even if you're totally convinced
that Jerry Hobbs was there, he did it, if there's
male DNA on both of these girls, was someone with him?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
And don't you want to know? Doesn't that matter to you? Yeah,
you would think that, right. So they finally run it
and it is a match with George of Villatores. You know,
remember back when there was an investigation into Amanda Snell's murder,
he had agreed to give a DNA sample, so his
DNA again was taken when he was arrested for the
Arlington crimes, so it was in the system at that time.
(38:42):
It was a match. In twenty ten, Jerry Hobbs was
exonerated and eventually received a seven point seventy five million
dollar settlement.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
You know, seven point seventy five million dollars, that's so
much money. But when you think about the trauma of
what this person went through to lou their daughter and
her friend in the most brutal way, and then to
be targeted by law enforcement wrongly having been in custody
for this, and the court of public opinion can be
(39:14):
extremely rough.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Especially since he had a criminal record. I don't know,
sometimes I feel like there's just not as much sympathy
for people. It doesn't matter. He still was imprisoned for
five years for something he didn't do and blamed for
his own daughter's murder. It's horrible, Yeah, I mean, regardless
of someone's past, that's an incredible loss. So as far
as Georgia Vilatores, in October of twenty ten, he was
(39:39):
found guilty of rape and kidnapping charges and sentenced to
five life sentences without parole plus one hundred and sixty
eight years, and that was just for the Arlington crimes.
In twenty eleven, he was charged by federal authorities with
the death of Amanda Snell, and in twenty fourteen, a
federal jury, back by the jailhouse confession and Osama El
(40:03):
Atari's testimony and the DNA evidence, sentenced him to death
for the Snell murder, making him the first person since
two thousand and seven to receive such a verdict. But
actually just last year his descendences was commuted, so he's
no longer on death row, but he will serve the
rest of his life in prison. And then in twenty eighteen,
(40:25):
he faced trial for the murders of Laura Hobbs and
Crystal Tobias, the girls in Illinois, and he pled guilty.
You know, it seemed like he pled guilty instead of
going to trial. It was very clear that he did it,
and in exchanged for his plea, he was given one
hundred years imprisonment and he was able to transfer out
of a prison, which he didn't like being And at
(40:46):
the time, I think one of the reasons they did
this is that osama El Atari's testimony was really helpful
in getting a conviction for him with Amanda Snell's murder,
and it would have been really helpful with the double
murder of Laura Hobbs and christ Tobias if that had
gone to trial, but unfortunately osama El Atari was no
longer alive at that point. He bled guilty and he
(41:08):
was sentenced for that as well. So he's been convicted
on all of those charges. And you know, at that
sentence scene hearing the justice told him, you're a serial
killer and We don't know if there are other crimes
that are connected to him or not, but he will
spend the rest of his life in prison.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
It has to be such a balance for the prosecutors
who are working on a case like this one, because
once you sentence someone to one hundred years, I mean,
a hundred year sentence is like even that's a small
price to pay still for what he has done. But
you also are then losing your leverage to find out
(41:47):
about others and maybe close more cases that are out
there that possibly he was involved with, and that has
to be a difficult thing to reconcile.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Well, couldn't he, in theory still be charged.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yeah, but I would think he'd be way less inclined
to give them any information. But I guess with the
you know, technology and advancements with DNA, maybe they don't
even need it.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
You're right, he would have no incentive because he's never
going to get.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Out of here. He's never going to get out of prison,
and he shouldn't exactly. Yeah, so Osama had passed away
at this point, but after Osama brought them these confessions
from Georgia Villa Torres, do we know was part of that.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Agreement and then you're getting me to a new location.
I'm not one hundred percent sure about that. But his
prison sentence was cut in half basically, so he was
released from prison in twenty fourteen, and he served less
than half of his sentence, so he was out by
twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
It's so mindflowing that you could have someone like Georgia
Villa Torres who's committed these heinous murders and attempted murders
in the same place as someone who's committing financial fraud,
because both are illegal, but they're very different.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Yeah, and I think it was maybe because they were
in a jail. I don't know that would have been
their long term holding places. They were both happened to
be in this jail at the same time, but yeah,
I mean it is wild. So to wrap up Osama
al Atari's story, he got out of prison in twenty fourteen,
and the majority of the money that he borrowed has
(43:22):
never been recovered. They recovered a couple of million, but
they were like, where's the rest of the money? So
two years later, in February of twenty sixteen, his family
reported him missing to authorities and there was a search.
They ended up finding his body in his Chevy truck
(43:42):
in a rundown industrial area of Capital Heights, Maryland. He
had been shot, and they were pretty sure that he
had been murdered because his rolex was missing. He was
thirty seven years old. His family said that after he
was released from prison, he had been operating a construction
materials business, and they also said it would be very
(44:04):
strange that he wouldn't be wearing his rolex, so that
was suspicious. The Prince George County Police Department interviewed multiple
people who had been in contact with him recently, and
one of them was a man named Donald Clay. It
came out that this guy, who they weren't even sure
how he was connected to Osama el Atari, but they
(44:25):
knew that he knew him, and it seems like Donald
Clay had become convinced that Osama had stashed millions of
dollars in an offshore account and then had concocted this
plan to get him to give him the money. So
Donald Clay created his own offshore bank account then lured
Osama Eltari to this empty industrial area of Capitol Heights, Maryland.
(44:50):
On February eleventh, twenty sixteen, where he was waiting with
two armed men, and they basically kidnapped osama El Atari,
took him into an abandoned house and attempted to coerce
him into transferring the money. The police aren't really sure,
like maybe he didn't have money, maybe he did and
(45:10):
he refused to transfer it. But somewhere along the way
the plan went awry and they ended up killing him.
So all three men were arrested and charged. I don't
know if they know for sure, but they're pretty sure
that this was like an independent plan. That these guys
knew osama El Atari. They had heard that he had
(45:31):
taken money from a bank. Everybody in the community really
knew that. But it is interesting to note that you
know years before. In a letter to the judge who
ordered his early release, osama Elatari wrote that he was
nervous about George Avila Tourre's potentially taking revenge on him.
He said, he told me about plans to eliminate witnesses
(45:54):
in his upcoming trial based on his past. I knew
he would not hesitate to kill me, but I continued
to assist anyway because I knew it was the right
thing to do. At this point, Osama El Atari had
been a witness in the case to convict Georgia Villa
Tooris of Aman of Snell's murder, but the case and
(46:15):
the trial for the double murder of the girls hadn't
taken place yet, so you know, you have to wonder.
But I wasn't able to find anything so connect that.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Okay, So as far as we know, Donald Clay had
no connection to Georgia Villa Torres, just an associate who
thought he could get in on some of this money. Yeah,
so they never found it, and as millions and millions
of dollars yep, and Donald didn't get any of it.
His plan didn't work, and he committed a horrific murder
(46:45):
and the money is still hidden.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
So you know, kind of a winding story. I thought
it was really interesting how the dots all connected. Probably
people have heard of Georgia of vilatoris potentially at this
point because he is a serial killer. But I just
really thought that it was interesting the way that Osama
El Atari's story connected with his, and he was in
(47:10):
prison for stealing millions of dollars but then also helped
to secure a conviction for a serial killer. Whether or
not he did it for his own gain or for
the greater good.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
You know, you could debate that, but yeah, I mean,
I think it's something we come back to a lot
in our interviews where we hear these heavy stories and
most people have good and bad and maybe he did
feel it was the right thing to do in addition
to knowing it would help him. And it sounds like
Osama El Atari committed this financial fraud and he sends
(47:44):
to twelve years but he found a way to lessen
his sentence that I think he's right it was the
right thing to do.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, So that is the story that I brought to
tell you today.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
That story had so many moving parts and I'm surprised
I have hadn't heard more about it. And it sounds
like you came across a helpful FBI AffA davit. But
otherwise people wouldn't talk to you either, and I guess
it's just one of those things. Yeah, thanks for listening.
We'll be back next week with an interview. If you
(48:18):
have a story for us, we would love to hear it.
Our email is The Knife at exactlyrightmedia dot com, or
you can follow us on Instagram at The Knife Podcast
or Blue Sky at the Knife Podcast.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
This has been an exactly right production. Hosted and produced
by me Hannah Smith.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
And me paytia Ety. Our producers are Tom Bryfogel and
Alexis Samarosi.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Artwork by Vanessa Lilac.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Executive produced by Karen Kilgareth Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.
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