November 1, 2022 • 32 mins
California is perceived as a liberal state but the truth is a lot more complicated. No place better epitomizes that truth than Shasta County, where far-right activists are plotting a government takeover. Sources:
- Doni Chamberlain / anewscafe.com
- Associated Press
- TMZ
- Action News Now
- CNN
- Indisputable with Dr. Rashad Richey
- MMFA | InfoWars
- truth videos
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode contains graphic language and content that may be
alarming to some listener. Discretion is advised. Boy, our children
do not deserve what they've gone over the last two years.
They have done nothing to deserve the restrictions and mandate
(00:21):
distressed and they did not deserve any bit of it.
When you have people like Donnie Chamberlain, who was the
only person in this room right now wearing a mask
covered or coward face. Donnie, but you and your coward photographer,
your coward little staff that you have, your twenty five
followers at me, your bullshit little articles power. My name
(00:43):
is Donnie Chamberlain. I'm a journalist. I worked at the
referse search site here and reading for ten years, but
I lost my job. You are a coward, Donnie Chamberlain,
as people like you, and they're making this difficult for
our childer for people that actually want to live it
is Kelly and make it better. So I started this
little blog, and um first I was just going to
write about recipes and living in the country, looking my
(01:04):
eyes doing because I'm speaking to you. Then the pandemic
hit and everything changed. Telling lies about me, about my family,
about my friends, contacting my ex wife and whether my
children tied to get heard of say things Bomny, how'd
that work out for you, Donnie. This is Alan County, Donny,
(01:25):
We're fine to take it back. For people like you.
There's this big divide and it's not just COVID, and
it's not just politics, and it's not just to say
to Jefferson, it's just all mixed up. I'm sorry you're miserable.
I'm sorry you about through a humilia divorce. I'm sorry
you haven't been cheated Donnie publicly, and that's why you're
so miserable and that at the world. I'm sorry that
(01:46):
happened to you. I'm trying to get my head around
what they're thinking and where they're coming from. I wish
we could say Donnie is liberal and this person is conservative,
but we still have this in common and we still
love each other. This is what we're up against. We
are up against people that will say anything and do
anything to our children, to us, we really have to
(02:08):
stand up enough to know. I think they're looking for
a civil war. I mean I really do. I think
they're looking for an excuse to start using weapons. Side
people say I love what you guys, are doing, but
I can't speak up, keep back getting on the other
side because the winds enough. We have stating again we
(02:30):
will stay here, and we won't fight, and we will win.
They got beat of the fight from Interval Presents and
awfully nice. This is the last resort, I'm sure Test
Scott Episode four, The Great State of Jefferson. When we
(02:56):
first started working on this podcast back in we had
a pretty simple question, what would happen if California succeeded
from the United States. I don't think we ever really
imagined that finding an answer would be so complicated, because
for every problem the Secession tries to solve, a new
one pops up. Last episode, we talked about California's dark
(03:17):
history and how today California Natives are fighting to proclaim
the lands that we're taking from them. In response, Marcus
Louis and Cales have made a radical proposal to turn
over almost fifty of the state two tribes. So the
native people are going to get the land back on
a scale that no one in America has ever seen.
(03:38):
Our plan dwarfed their wildest dreams by like a thousand percent.
So when I was talking to some of the Dakota.
They were like, oh my god, you guys should totally
do this, because no one in America is even thinking
on the scale. It's only us, Like, very few tribes
even have the Cajones, as they say, to ask for
that much landing. We were saying, hey, take half of
(03:59):
it back. But while that proposal might benefit some native groups,
it's likely to really piss off another group of people,
the members of the State of Jefferson. Here in the
rural counties of northern California, some residents say it's time
for a new declaration of independence. They want to separate
from California and create a fifty first state, the State
(04:21):
of Jefferson. State of Jefferson activists want to found a
new state on some of the same land that calls
it is promising to return to tribes, which raises tool problems. First,
the land can't belong to both tribes and to a
future State of Jefferson, And second, calls it is going
to have to figure out how to deal with the
(04:43):
millions of conservative Californians who have their own ideas about
how they want to be governed. The State of Jefferson
is just one part of a broader fight between the
state's rural counties, which cover huge areas of land, and
big coastal cities like San Francisco, which have way way
in our people. Today, We're going to tell you the
story of that fight by taking you to a place
(05:05):
called Shasta County. It's a place where far right extremists
are building their vision of California, and it's a lot
different from what CALGS is promising. This has been a brawl,
you know, between two sides that fucking hate each other.
They're training with guns and they've got always weapons. This
is a complete, unequivocal overthrow of the government, and I
(05:28):
am deeply concerned that Shasta County will literally collapse. The
largest river in California is the Sacramento River. It empties
(05:51):
into the San Francisco Bay, and if you followed it
to its source, you travel about three miles northeast, ultimately
reaching Mount shah Stuff. Along the way, you'd pass right
through Shasta County. Shasta County is I always refer to
it as the Jewel of the North State. Where at
the top end of the Sacramento Valley and we're surrounded
(06:12):
by mountains on three sides. This is Mary Rickard. She's
in her seventies and has lived in Shasta County for decades,
being in the ranching and farming industry. Being outside and
being around nature is really really important to me. So
it's a really wonderful place to live if you like
to hunt, if you like to fish, if you like
to do water sports. We have the Sacramento River that
(06:34):
runs through the town of Reading. Reading. If that name
sounds familiar, it's because it's the same area once known
as Readings Ranch, the site of the Sacramento River massacre
we told you about last episode. Reading is a town
of about ninety thousand people and what its builds on
(06:54):
the assessor lands of the Pitt River, wind To and
women and Win, two tribes. Today, the city's about white.
It's the seat of government for Shasta County, and his
politics are the complete opposite of San Francisco or l A.
We are very very much a red county and and
I'm a conservative. Shasta has voted Republican in every presidential
(07:16):
election since more than sixty people voted for Donald Trump.
Mary Ricker is one of the Republicans the Shasta residents
have been voting for. She's an elected member of the
county Board of Supervisors. The board is the primary local
authority and has five members, all of whom are Republicans.
(07:38):
These days, Mary is scared, scared enough that she didn't
even show up to the first interview that we scheduled
with her. When I got the original request to meet
with you, and I thought to myself, you gave me
the address of something to Hamon Street, and I thought,
let me just google that, because I think this might
be another set up. Not knowing anybody, We had booked
(08:02):
a studio for Mary that was owned by someone connected
to a far right militia, so it actually crossed her mind.
Was she walking into a kidnapping? The kidnapping was I
just thought, you know, I always have to kind of
keep an eye on is somebody going to do something
pretty radical, because you just never know. This movement has
(08:23):
been in full force for two years and there's been
a lot of threats. But I do have a concealed
weapons permit and I want to make that very clear,
and I'm not you know, I'm not afraid to use it.
What would make a conservative Republican politician in a Republican
county so concerned for her safety to understand that we
(08:44):
need to go back to the beginning of the pandemic
and the bar just outside of reading at the Palace
cedro In. It's kind of a landmark spot, you know,
(09:05):
for for this area. We live in a town of
about two thousand people, you know, and half of them
probably come to this bar every day, you know. So
it's it's it's cool area. Everybody knows everybody. It's a
small town feel. This is Carlos Zapata. He's in his
forties and like Mary, he's a longtime resident of Shasta County.
(09:26):
Who I am. I am a father, a husband, and
I am a business owner and I am the prounce
son of immigrants parents that came here from South America,
from Peru. I came from a family that it was
the most beautiful family you'll ever see. But we didn't
have means, okay, I we didn't have it, and we want,
(09:47):
you know, we we like The only promise that I
had of having a better life wasn't because my parents
were going to give that to me monetarily. It was
because they equipped me with a lot of confidence myself
to be a to go out and do whatever the
funk I want. Carlos is proud of his history and
the life that he's built for himself, his wife and
(10:07):
there four kids. You know, I had nothing, gay, I
had nothing, Okay, and I've made a beautiful, wonderful wife
for myself in this country. He's a successful local businessman
and a popular guy around town. But his business, his hospitality.
It's people getting together for a beer. So when the
pandemic arrived and the state ordered bars to close, Carlos
(10:29):
was not about it. I wanna Lockdown's happened. Obviously, it
wasn't an option for me to lock down. I knew
that if I lost my staff, I just wouldn't get
him back, you know. I also knew that they needed
it to work. We had to talk with them and
some of them were like, Hey, if we go home,
we're gonna get back on drugs, back on alcohol, back
(10:49):
on draking, and you're just not gonna see us again.
You know. So that's fair. So I wanted to create,
you know, an environment that they could continue to make
a living for themselves or families. Uh stay, he's safe,
and for me to be able to make a livit
for my family. You know that that was really am part.
So I said, you know, let's screw that. I'm gonna
I'm gonna keep stay open. In the early days of
(11:11):
the pandemic, many Americans considered it their civic duty to
shelter in place to help prevent the spread of COVID,
but in Shasta the decision to stay open it was
considered heroic. To his supporters. Carlos was standing up for
his family and his employees and the face of government overreach.
The standoff between Carlos and the government all came to
(11:33):
a head in August. Carlos stood up at a Shasta
County Border Supervisors meeting and laid into Mary Ricord and
the other elected officials. I wasn't gonna speak. I was
at to speak here, you know. Uh, sheriff could see you.
I'm telling you, guys, you know, I'm pretty appalled what's
going on now. You're sitting there with their masks on.
I can't blame you for wearing masks, because i'd behind
(11:55):
my face too if I was you. For what you're doing.
It's absolutely horrendous what you're doing. These people on the
business owner and uh and I'm telling you, our families
are starving right now. We're being peaceful and you better
be happy that we're we're good citizens, that we're peaceful citizens.
But it's not gonna be peaceful much longer. Okay, And
this isn't a threat. I'm not a criminal. If I'm
telling you, good citizens are gonna turn to real concern
(12:16):
and revolutionary citizens real soon. I'm probably the only person
that has a boss to say what I'm saying right now.
That we're building, we're organizing, and we'll work with law
enforcement or without law enforcement. But you won't stop us
when time comes, because our families are starving. I went
to war for this country. I've seen the ugliest, dirtiest
part of humanity. I've been in combat, and I never
(12:38):
want to go back again. But I'm telling you what
I will to say this country. If it has to
be against our own citizens, it will happen. And there's
a million people like me, and you won't stop us.
Open the county, Let our citizens do what they need
to do, Let owners of businesses do what they need
to do to feed their families. Take the masks off,
(12:58):
quit masking and Muslim you're children. How do you feel
about being complicit perpetuating that the greatest hoaks have perpetuated
on the American people, and you're part of it by
your mask. In Shasta County, we're supposed to be red
country up here, not blue country or red country up here.
A local journalist named Donnie Chamberlain was in the crowd
(13:21):
at that meeting. The first time I heard of Carlos
Spata was that infamous meeting where he got up there
and and he spoke, and I really resonated with people.
He became like an instant famous person. His video went viral,
and I think people who were feeling downtrodden, and you
(13:42):
know that the average blue collar white guy up here
who felt like he's not getting what he deserves. It
really resonated with people. Well, you can see behind me,
there's a group of people here gathered in front of
the courthouse. They have their flags as well as their
signs out here. That's a support Carlos the product the
most visible national faces. California State Militia member Carlos Topata
(14:05):
Militia member and mask opponent Carlos Zapata, Carlospa, we love
you and salute you. You don't vote your way out
of socialism once it takes root. The only way to eradicate.
It is to fight with arms, to have a violent,
violent confrontation. At Blood in the Streets, Donnie was one
(14:27):
of the many journalists to cover that moment, and she
has continued to report on the story ever since because Carlos,
as famous as he is, is really just the most recent,
invisible symptom of an issue that has been stirring resentment
in Shasta County for decades, a lack of representation. It's
really about representation. You know, we do not have representation
(14:48):
in the rural parts of America. This is the way
it goes is that people move into the cities, and
these people in the cities have large populations that carry
the vote. So um so, so we're constily fighting to
be heard. Me. I would like that kid in the
back of the class raising his hand going he picked me.
You know, I have a question that used to be
answered today. The California State Senate has forty members. Unlike
(15:12):
the U. S. Senate, where every state gets the same
number of legislators, California State senators are apportioned by population.
That means that right now, fifteen senators represent Los Angeles
County alone. And in contrast, there's only one senator to
represent an entire group of eleven northern counties, including Shasta.
(15:32):
That's democracy majority rule. A lot of people live in
California's big cities, and so of course they have more
influence on how the state is run. So what's the
problem for Carlos and others up state? They see the
structure of California state government as tyranny. Decisions that affects
Shasta County end up getting made with little input from
(15:55):
the people who actually live there, and it's led many
people to call for a big change. It's a it's
a real old issue, you know that it's been a
big issue here in the North state to proceed, you know,
from California to have the State of Jefferson, you state.
The idea of the State of Jefferson has been around
(16:16):
for a long time, going back to at least the
nineteen forties. It would create a new U. S state
out of parts of northern California and in some versions,
parts of Oregon as well. Statehood means Jefferson could make
its own rules, and it would gain two seats in
the U. S. Senate, giving it just as much representation
as the rest of California. It could become another rural
(16:37):
conservative state like Wyoming or Montana and have a huge
impact on the political balance of the United States. The
allure of all that power of more representation means the
state of Jefferson concept has a lot of support. As
of one, northern California counties have passed or approved official
resolutions calling for their regions independent twenty one counties. Here's
(17:02):
Terry Proposa. He's a leader in today's State of Jefferson campaign.
I think that the situation of a state like California,
as big as it is, needs to be broken up.
In California, you're looking at one assemblymen for every five
and one senator for every million. That's crazy. But you
think about that a minute now, if you're one of
eight assemblymen, how are you supposed to represent five people?
(17:27):
On this simple point? Maybe Terry and Carlos frustration is understandable.
Their voices are getting drowned out by all the other
residents of the state. So they end up getting stuck
with policies that they don't agree with and there's nothing
they can really do. But what exactly are these policies
that they're upset about. I mean, the whole thing is
that you've lost your liberty? Are you okay with that?
Are you okay with the highest gas prices in the
(17:48):
United States? Are you okay with the fact that if
you own a story in your toyl and you have
to have transgender toys? Are you okay with um? You know,
with your daughter going to high school and because Joe
feels like Joanne day he can take a shower with
her after pe I mean, is that okay? When Terry
and Carlos talk about their freedom or their liberty, they're
often talking about what they see as their right to
(18:10):
live in a society that only reflects their values. They
see it as an infringement on their freedom to allow you,
as a transperson, access to a bathroom that matches your
gender identity. It's an infringe me on their freedom to
take safety measures that could protect everyone from COVID nineteen.
You come trying to rip my children out of my
house to vaccinate them. If you try to rip me
(18:32):
out of my house to vacculate me, I'm gonna kill you.
As simple as that, I think no calls about it. Calls.
It builds itself as a progressive movement, and its stated
goal is to create a new nation with quote unquote
(18:53):
California values. Here's how Louis described it back in our
first episode. I think the California is an independent country,
would be able to do things to make the world
a better place. I mean, imagine the California where you had,
you know, quote unquote free university education and quote unquote
free healthcare. I mean, you're kind of turning into a
country like northern Europe. And so that's kind of the
direction that we'd like to take California. Not to say that,
(19:14):
so it might seem that the values of Callegs and
if people like Carlo cent Terry are in pretty direct conflict,
which is a big problem because despite its reputation as
a blue state, California has millions and millions of conservative residents.
Can you guess which US state cast the most votes
for Donald Trump? Yeah, it was California. So how is
(19:36):
Calls going to govern a country built on progressive values
when so many of its people seem to want something different?
The answer is actually pretty wild, because despite what they've said,
a progressive nation may not actually be what Marcus and
Lewis have in mind, and in fact, their plan might
end up achieving the exact opposite. So what's happening today?
(20:01):
Why are you guys here today? It's a rebuke or
refutation of Donald Trump and the fact that America chose
him as their election official. Now, what kind of people
elect a man like that? The answer not Californians. After
the election, huge numbers of liberals flooded into Callegs thinking
it was some kind of escape from Donald Trump's America,
(20:23):
partially because Marcus and Lewis had described it that way.
A lot of these new collegs and supporters were confused
at what they found. Here's Lewis and so when we
were all of a sudden diluged with all these new
left wing and democratic supporters in our campaign, they thought
that this was an anti Trump movement. And they found
(20:44):
out that, oh, Lewis is a registered Republican voted for Trump,
and Marcus was a registered Republican and has been the
host of a conservative talk radio program. They didn't really
like that. It wasn't just that Lewis was a Republican
who had voted for Trump. Lewis, how did track record?
Before I was involved in the California Independence campaign, people
knew me as the person who started the largest social
(21:05):
media campaign against the same sex marriage in the United States,
and it traveled around the United States with a National
Organization for Marriage, which is conservative, right wing group. We
traveled around the country to oppose the spread up same
sex marriage. Back in the late two thousands, Louis Marinelli
was one of the nation's foremost opponents of marriage equality.
While he later recanted his views, it was hard to
(21:27):
tell if this conversion was genuine or just politically convenient.
Here's theos later he was an early Callegit supporter. When
I met Louis, he was pretending to be kind of
a recovering Republican who had made some mistakes in his
past but now wanted to open inclusive culture and independent California.
(21:48):
I don't believe that he actually ever really helped those views,
but I think that he was pretending to in order
to find people to work with on this project. Lewis
is actually pretty up about the fact that he intentionally
disguised his beliefs to people within Call Exit. I personally
felt like my job was to represent the movement more
(22:08):
than my personal views, and so therefore a lot of
times I found myself moderating my views, biting my tongue,
just to simply not make it a campaign about Louis
Marinelli's personal views. But I was able to keep it
from becoming too far left wing, you know, as I
was able to be that moderate voice and try to
filter some of the craziness that comes out of the
(22:29):
far left. I was able to present the argument for
cal Exit from that point of view, and instead of saying, well,
California should becoming independent because we can save the world,
and we can save the whales, and we can, you know,
stop the trees from being cut down, I wouldn't allow
the movement to become a woke politics, left wing quote campaign.
(22:49):
Cal Exit at least Lewis's version wouldn't create a new
progressive nation. It might actually achieve the opposite, reducing liberal
control of California government and giving more power to conservative
places like Shasta County. I had always hoped that if
California became an independent country, that the system and government
in Sacramento would be reformed to implement something like proportional representation,
(23:12):
that it wouldn't be just one party rule by the
Democratic Party, and that would I think be better representative
of the state than just the Democratic Party. There's nothing wrong,
of course, with the idea of giving more power to
people with differing views, and proportional representation is how many
other countries work, like the UK. But the point is this,
(23:33):
California isn't as progressive as most people believe it has
millions of voters like Carlos Apata and Terry Proposa, in
their vision of California looks a lot different from what
collegs it is promising. What would California led by the
far right look like. Shasta County is a great example.
Today it's in the middle of a war for control
(23:55):
of its own government and the far right is winning.
Which brings us back to the tape that you heard
at the beginning of this episode. Look in my eyes,
don because I'm speaking to you. If you people don't
get if you think that we're gonna dig it in,
because families or children, this is Alan County. We're fine
(24:20):
to take it back for people like you. That voice
that you're hearing belongs to Carlos Apata. He's speaking from
a podium during a meeting in the chambers of the
Shasta County Board of Supervisors. Donnie Chamberlain was there. Donnie
has aggressively reported on Carlos since he first came to prominence.
In August, Here's Donnie Carlos Spatter wrote a post which
(24:43):
we have a screenshot of somewhere that says, you know,
we're the ones in charge. Wait till we take over
the whole fucking county and we'll recall all their asses
and I'll be in charge, and that kind of thing.
So that seed was planted about recalling the whole board.
Everybody today Carlos Apata is a highly visible supporter of
an effort to recall and replace Shasta County's Board of
(25:06):
Supervisors with the slate of far right candidates. The recall
campaign was to remove the entire Board of Supervisors and
take back Shasta County and make it how they want it,
more like a fifty first state. It'll be like a
hostile takeover and then we'll do what we want with
the county. One of the recall campaign's first targets with
(25:28):
Mary Rickard, this isn't just a recall that was just
the tip of the iceberg. This is a complete, unequivocal
overthrow of the government. It's all about that control and
take over a power well they haven't. They are in
control now. Mary survived the recall against her, but others
(25:48):
weren't as lucky. The far right now controls a majority
of votes on the board and they're making big changes
purging the government of opposition, including firing the county health
officer for enforcing stay at COVID policies. We were just
a small conservative county and we've been overtaken and targeted
by an extreme group of people who want to make
(26:10):
it even more conservative than it already was. There's white
Christian nationalists, there's Proud Boys their state of Jefferson. There's
a cotton Wooden militia, and so there are all these groups,
but the one thing they all have in common is
liberty and freedom. And by liberty and freedom they mean
to do whatever they damn well want. He's Terry Reposa
(26:34):
and Martin Luther King of course, said I have a dream,
and I think that's what we're missing in America now
is having a dream to do whatever you want, however
you want it. And I think that's something we're missing. Yeah,
I don't even know what to say about that. As
for Carlos, the fight in Shasta is just the beginning.
(26:55):
He's founded a media company to teach other far right
activists how to launch their own recall campaigns. He believes
he's helping the usher in a new era of government
in California. I mean most people are sucking retarded, you know.
I mean you could ask him who the vice president is.
They want to know he speak of the houses. I
don't know. So I think it's up to intelligent people
that have studied history to understand this country, to get
(27:18):
together and to figure out how to move this thing forward.
You know, I understand people South America. Everybody has a
right to free speech. Absolutely, you can say where the
funk you want. Doesn't we have to listen to you.
It certainly doesn't mean I have to legislate based on
your stupid ideas. You know. Carlos says that his views
aren't being heard in government, and then in the next
breath he also says he doesn't have to listen to
people that he disagrees with. It makes it pretty clear
(27:41):
that when he says he wants fair representation, he really
just means he wants a system that's more representative of him.
Democrats vastly outnumbered Republicans in California. But in a state
of forty million people, that means there are millions of
conservatives who feel disenfranchised from the current syst them and
some of them on the far right are angry enough
(28:03):
that they're taking action and Shasta that's had some pretty
scary results. So what do you do about it? Do
you just tell Carlos a Pada majority rules and call
it a day. According to Marcus from calls it, well, yeah,
I'm of the opinion of you follow the law and
democracies what it is. You represent a tiny fraction of
(28:24):
the population. It's not going to go the way that
you want. Sorry, your option is to move or do
what a lot of the other Republicans and Conservatives in
California do, deal with it and just stay here. And
as far as the state of Jefferson, Marcus sees no
reason why calls it would let the region claim it's independence,
the Jefferson Region, they're not really any sort of bargaining position.
(28:47):
You know, they can't go, We'll leave and it will
hurt your economy. No, Well, you're a fraction of the
population and your fraction economy, so you really can't do
anything to impact us other than just complain. The thing is, though,
I don't think calexit can actually afford to let Jefferson leave,
because Jefferson and Shasta County have something that California really needs. Water.
(29:11):
California as we know it today would not exist without
the water system that moves water from northern California to
southern California. If you live in Sacramento or San Francisco,
a big portion of your water is coming from northern California.
In fact, all of California's big cities rely on water
(29:33):
that comes from somewhere else, from upstate, from the Sierra
Nevada Mountains, or even from out of state entirely, which
brings us to the subject of our next episode. Water.
Historic droughts worsened by climate change have put California's water
supply under massive strain, and if cals it were to occur,
some people think that it could create a crisis. You
(29:55):
won't be surprised to hear that Marcus from cal Exit
has a point of view on that water. We have
no water problem in California. Everybody's wrong. There is no
water issue in California. We have no water problem at all.
Everybody's dead wrong. The next episode we ask what about water.
It's a topic that literal wars have been fought over
(30:16):
and colleagues that are not more wars might be coming
to California. Power and possessions and pleasure and the day
have ruined history. They've caused so much suffering throughout forever. Power,
possessions and pleasure. And with those guys, it's power and
it's money. They want money. That's next time on the
(30:38):
Last Resort. The Last Resort is an Interval Presents original
production from Awfully Nice. From Interval Presents, The executive producers
(30:59):
are All and Ky and Jake Kleinberg. Executive producers from
Awfully Nice are Jesse Burton and Katie Hodges. Written and
produced by Jesse Burton and Dana Bulut. Associate producer is
Suzanne Gaber. Project management by Kadi Kama Kat Editing, sound
design and mix by Nick Sabriano and Keiana McLellan of
(31:19):
Bang Audio. Post original music by My Boy Manta Way,
Yuki and Me Shoot Tescott, Theme song by Me, Shoot
Test Scott and Sweet. Sound fact checking by Lauren Vespoli.
Script consultation by William Bauer. Operations lead is Sarah You.
Business development lead is Cheffi a Lenswig, and marketing lead
is Samara still Special thanks to a Phillips production. I'm
(31:42):
your host, Shoot Scott. For a full list of the
sources used in this episode, please check the show notes.
Make sure to follow, rate, and review The Last Resort
on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Stitcher, or wherever you
get your podcast. Thank you for listening. We wont I
wrote it was yeah,
This episode contains graphic language and content that may be
alarming to some listener. Discretion is advised. Boy, our children
do not deserve what they've gone over the last two years.
They have done nothing to deserve the restrictions and mandate
(00:21):
distressed and they did not deserve any bit of it.
When you have people like Donnie Chamberlain, who was the
only person in this room right now wearing a mask
covered or coward face. Donnie, but you and your coward photographer,
your coward little staff that you have, your twenty five
followers at me, your bullshit little articles power. My name
(00:43):
is Donnie Chamberlain. I'm a journalist. I worked at the
referse search site here and reading for ten years, but
I lost my job. You are a coward, Donnie Chamberlain,
as people like you, and they're making this difficult for
our childer for people that actually want to live it
is Kelly and make it better. So I started this
little blog, and um first I was just going to
write about recipes and living in the country, looking my
(01:04):
eyes doing because I'm speaking to you. Then the pandemic
hit and everything changed. Telling lies about me, about my family,
about my friends, contacting my ex wife and whether my
children tied to get heard of say things Bomny, how'd
that work out for you, Donnie. This is Alan County, Donny,
(01:25):
We're fine to take it back. For people like you.
There's this big divide and it's not just COVID, and
it's not just politics, and it's not just to say
to Jefferson, it's just all mixed up. I'm sorry you're miserable.
I'm sorry you about through a humilia divorce. I'm sorry
you haven't been cheated Donnie publicly, and that's why you're
so miserable and that at the world. I'm sorry that
(01:46):
happened to you. I'm trying to get my head around
what they're thinking and where they're coming from. I wish
we could say Donnie is liberal and this person is conservative,
but we still have this in common and we still
love each other. This is what we're up against. We
are up against people that will say anything and do
anything to our children, to us, we really have to
(02:08):
stand up enough to know. I think they're looking for
a civil war. I mean I really do. I think
they're looking for an excuse to start using weapons. Side
people say I love what you guys, are doing, but
I can't speak up, keep back getting on the other
side because the winds enough. We have stating again we
(02:30):
will stay here, and we won't fight, and we will win.
They got beat of the fight from Interval Presents and
awfully nice. This is the last resort, I'm sure Test
Scott Episode four, The Great State of Jefferson. When we
(02:56):
first started working on this podcast back in we had
a pretty simple question, what would happen if California succeeded
from the United States. I don't think we ever really
imagined that finding an answer would be so complicated, because
for every problem the Secession tries to solve, a new
one pops up. Last episode, we talked about California's dark
(03:17):
history and how today California Natives are fighting to proclaim
the lands that we're taking from them. In response, Marcus
Louis and Cales have made a radical proposal to turn
over almost fifty of the state two tribes. So the
native people are going to get the land back on
a scale that no one in America has ever seen.
(03:38):
Our plan dwarfed their wildest dreams by like a thousand percent.
So when I was talking to some of the Dakota.
They were like, oh my god, you guys should totally
do this, because no one in America is even thinking
on the scale. It's only us, Like, very few tribes
even have the Cajones, as they say, to ask for
that much landing. We were saying, hey, take half of
(03:59):
it back. But while that proposal might benefit some native groups,
it's likely to really piss off another group of people,
the members of the State of Jefferson. Here in the
rural counties of northern California, some residents say it's time
for a new declaration of independence. They want to separate
from California and create a fifty first state, the State
(04:21):
of Jefferson. State of Jefferson activists want to found a
new state on some of the same land that calls
it is promising to return to tribes, which raises tool problems. First,
the land can't belong to both tribes and to a
future State of Jefferson, And second, calls it is going
to have to figure out how to deal with the
(04:43):
millions of conservative Californians who have their own ideas about
how they want to be governed. The State of Jefferson
is just one part of a broader fight between the
state's rural counties, which cover huge areas of land, and
big coastal cities like San Francisco, which have way way
in our people. Today, We're going to tell you the
story of that fight by taking you to a place
(05:05):
called Shasta County. It's a place where far right extremists
are building their vision of California, and it's a lot
different from what CALGS is promising. This has been a brawl,
you know, between two sides that fucking hate each other.
They're training with guns and they've got always weapons. This
is a complete, unequivocal overthrow of the government, and I
(05:28):
am deeply concerned that Shasta County will literally collapse. The
largest river in California is the Sacramento River. It empties
(05:51):
into the San Francisco Bay, and if you followed it
to its source, you travel about three miles northeast, ultimately
reaching Mount shah Stuff. Along the way, you'd pass right
through Shasta County. Shasta County is I always refer to
it as the Jewel of the North State. Where at
the top end of the Sacramento Valley and we're surrounded
(06:12):
by mountains on three sides. This is Mary Rickard. She's
in her seventies and has lived in Shasta County for decades,
being in the ranching and farming industry. Being outside and
being around nature is really really important to me. So
it's a really wonderful place to live if you like
to hunt, if you like to fish, if you like
to do water sports. We have the Sacramento River that
(06:34):
runs through the town of Reading. Reading. If that name
sounds familiar, it's because it's the same area once known
as Readings Ranch, the site of the Sacramento River massacre
we told you about last episode. Reading is a town
of about ninety thousand people and what its builds on
(06:54):
the assessor lands of the Pitt River, wind To and
women and Win, two tribes. Today, the city's about white.
It's the seat of government for Shasta County, and his
politics are the complete opposite of San Francisco or l A.
We are very very much a red county and and
I'm a conservative. Shasta has voted Republican in every presidential
(07:16):
election since more than sixty people voted for Donald Trump.
Mary Ricker is one of the Republicans the Shasta residents
have been voting for. She's an elected member of the
county Board of Supervisors. The board is the primary local
authority and has five members, all of whom are Republicans.
(07:38):
These days, Mary is scared, scared enough that she didn't
even show up to the first interview that we scheduled
with her. When I got the original request to meet
with you, and I thought to myself, you gave me
the address of something to Hamon Street, and I thought,
let me just google that, because I think this might
be another set up. Not knowing anybody, We had booked
(08:02):
a studio for Mary that was owned by someone connected
to a far right militia, so it actually crossed her mind.
Was she walking into a kidnapping? The kidnapping was I
just thought, you know, I always have to kind of
keep an eye on is somebody going to do something
pretty radical, because you just never know. This movement has
(08:23):
been in full force for two years and there's been
a lot of threats. But I do have a concealed
weapons permit and I want to make that very clear,
and I'm not you know, I'm not afraid to use it.
What would make a conservative Republican politician in a Republican
county so concerned for her safety to understand that we
(08:44):
need to go back to the beginning of the pandemic
and the bar just outside of reading at the Palace
cedro In. It's kind of a landmark spot, you know,
(09:05):
for for this area. We live in a town of
about two thousand people, you know, and half of them
probably come to this bar every day, you know. So
it's it's it's cool area. Everybody knows everybody. It's a
small town feel. This is Carlos Zapata. He's in his
forties and like Mary, he's a longtime resident of Shasta County.
(09:26):
Who I am. I am a father, a husband, and
I am a business owner and I am the prounce
son of immigrants parents that came here from South America,
from Peru. I came from a family that it was
the most beautiful family you'll ever see. But we didn't
have means, okay, I we didn't have it, and we want,
(09:47):
you know, we we like The only promise that I
had of having a better life wasn't because my parents
were going to give that to me monetarily. It was
because they equipped me with a lot of confidence myself
to be a to go out and do whatever the
funk I want. Carlos is proud of his history and
the life that he's built for himself, his wife and
(10:07):
there four kids. You know, I had nothing, gay, I
had nothing, Okay, and I've made a beautiful, wonderful wife
for myself in this country. He's a successful local businessman
and a popular guy around town. But his business, his hospitality.
It's people getting together for a beer. So when the
pandemic arrived and the state ordered bars to close, Carlos
(10:29):
was not about it. I wanna Lockdown's happened. Obviously, it
wasn't an option for me to lock down. I knew
that if I lost my staff, I just wouldn't get
him back, you know. I also knew that they needed
it to work. We had to talk with them and
some of them were like, Hey, if we go home,
we're gonna get back on drugs, back on alcohol, back
(10:49):
on draking, and you're just not gonna see us again.
You know. So that's fair. So I wanted to create,
you know, an environment that they could continue to make
a living for themselves or families. Uh stay, he's safe,
and for me to be able to make a livit
for my family. You know that that was really am part.
So I said, you know, let's screw that. I'm gonna
I'm gonna keep stay open. In the early days of
(11:11):
the pandemic, many Americans considered it their civic duty to
shelter in place to help prevent the spread of COVID,
but in Shasta the decision to stay open it was
considered heroic. To his supporters. Carlos was standing up for
his family and his employees and the face of government overreach.
The standoff between Carlos and the government all came to
(11:33):
a head in August. Carlos stood up at a Shasta
County Border Supervisors meeting and laid into Mary Ricord and
the other elected officials. I wasn't gonna speak. I was
at to speak here, you know. Uh, sheriff could see you.
I'm telling you, guys, you know, I'm pretty appalled what's
going on now. You're sitting there with their masks on.
I can't blame you for wearing masks, because i'd behind
(11:55):
my face too if I was you. For what you're doing.
It's absolutely horrendous what you're doing. These people on the
business owner and uh and I'm telling you, our families
are starving right now. We're being peaceful and you better
be happy that we're we're good citizens, that we're peaceful citizens.
But it's not gonna be peaceful much longer. Okay, And
this isn't a threat. I'm not a criminal. If I'm
telling you, good citizens are gonna turn to real concern
(12:16):
and revolutionary citizens real soon. I'm probably the only person
that has a boss to say what I'm saying right now.
That we're building, we're organizing, and we'll work with law
enforcement or without law enforcement. But you won't stop us
when time comes, because our families are starving. I went
to war for this country. I've seen the ugliest, dirtiest
part of humanity. I've been in combat, and I never
(12:38):
want to go back again. But I'm telling you what
I will to say this country. If it has to
be against our own citizens, it will happen. And there's
a million people like me, and you won't stop us.
Open the county, Let our citizens do what they need
to do, Let owners of businesses do what they need
to do to feed their families. Take the masks off,
(12:58):
quit masking and Muslim you're children. How do you feel
about being complicit perpetuating that the greatest hoaks have perpetuated
on the American people, and you're part of it by
your mask. In Shasta County, we're supposed to be red
country up here, not blue country or red country up here.
A local journalist named Donnie Chamberlain was in the crowd
(13:21):
at that meeting. The first time I heard of Carlos
Spata was that infamous meeting where he got up there
and and he spoke, and I really resonated with people.
He became like an instant famous person. His video went viral,
and I think people who were feeling downtrodden, and you
(13:42):
know that the average blue collar white guy up here
who felt like he's not getting what he deserves. It
really resonated with people. Well, you can see behind me,
there's a group of people here gathered in front of
the courthouse. They have their flags as well as their
signs out here. That's a support Carlos the product the
most visible national faces. California State Militia member Carlos Topata
(14:05):
Militia member and mask opponent Carlos Zapata, Carlospa, we love
you and salute you. You don't vote your way out
of socialism once it takes root. The only way to eradicate.
It is to fight with arms, to have a violent,
violent confrontation. At Blood in the Streets, Donnie was one
(14:27):
of the many journalists to cover that moment, and she
has continued to report on the story ever since because Carlos,
as famous as he is, is really just the most recent,
invisible symptom of an issue that has been stirring resentment
in Shasta County for decades, a lack of representation. It's
really about representation. You know, we do not have representation
(14:48):
in the rural parts of America. This is the way
it goes is that people move into the cities, and
these people in the cities have large populations that carry
the vote. So um so, so we're constily fighting to
be heard. Me. I would like that kid in the
back of the class raising his hand going he picked me.
You know, I have a question that used to be
answered today. The California State Senate has forty members. Unlike
(15:12):
the U. S. Senate, where every state gets the same
number of legislators, California State senators are apportioned by population.
That means that right now, fifteen senators represent Los Angeles
County alone. And in contrast, there's only one senator to
represent an entire group of eleven northern counties, including Shasta.
(15:32):
That's democracy majority rule. A lot of people live in
California's big cities, and so of course they have more
influence on how the state is run. So what's the
problem for Carlos and others up state? They see the
structure of California state government as tyranny. Decisions that affects
Shasta County end up getting made with little input from
(15:55):
the people who actually live there, and it's led many
people to call for a big change. It's a it's
a real old issue, you know that it's been a
big issue here in the North state to proceed, you know,
from California to have the State of Jefferson, you state.
The idea of the State of Jefferson has been around
(16:16):
for a long time, going back to at least the
nineteen forties. It would create a new U. S state
out of parts of northern California and in some versions,
parts of Oregon as well. Statehood means Jefferson could make
its own rules, and it would gain two seats in
the U. S. Senate, giving it just as much representation
as the rest of California. It could become another rural
(16:37):
conservative state like Wyoming or Montana and have a huge
impact on the political balance of the United States. The
allure of all that power of more representation means the
state of Jefferson concept has a lot of support. As
of one, northern California counties have passed or approved official
resolutions calling for their regions independent twenty one counties. Here's
(17:02):
Terry Proposa. He's a leader in today's State of Jefferson campaign.
I think that the situation of a state like California,
as big as it is, needs to be broken up.
In California, you're looking at one assemblymen for every five
and one senator for every million. That's crazy. But you
think about that a minute now, if you're one of
eight assemblymen, how are you supposed to represent five people?
(17:27):
On this simple point? Maybe Terry and Carlos frustration is understandable.
Their voices are getting drowned out by all the other
residents of the state. So they end up getting stuck
with policies that they don't agree with and there's nothing
they can really do. But what exactly are these policies
that they're upset about. I mean, the whole thing is
that you've lost your liberty? Are you okay with that?
Are you okay with the highest gas prices in the
(17:48):
United States? Are you okay with the fact that if
you own a story in your toyl and you have
to have transgender toys? Are you okay with um? You know,
with your daughter going to high school and because Joe
feels like Joanne day he can take a shower with
her after pe I mean, is that okay? When Terry
and Carlos talk about their freedom or their liberty, they're
often talking about what they see as their right to
(18:10):
live in a society that only reflects their values. They
see it as an infringement on their freedom to allow you,
as a transperson, access to a bathroom that matches your
gender identity. It's an infringe me on their freedom to
take safety measures that could protect everyone from COVID nineteen.
You come trying to rip my children out of my
house to vaccinate them. If you try to rip me
(18:32):
out of my house to vacculate me, I'm gonna kill you.
As simple as that, I think no calls about it. Calls.
It builds itself as a progressive movement, and its stated
goal is to create a new nation with quote unquote
(18:53):
California values. Here's how Louis described it back in our
first episode. I think the California is an independent country,
would be able to do things to make the world
a better place. I mean, imagine the California where you had,
you know, quote unquote free university education and quote unquote
free healthcare. I mean, you're kind of turning into a
country like northern Europe. And so that's kind of the
direction that we'd like to take California. Not to say that,
(19:14):
so it might seem that the values of Callegs and
if people like Carlo cent Terry are in pretty direct conflict,
which is a big problem because despite its reputation as
a blue state, California has millions and millions of conservative residents.
Can you guess which US state cast the most votes
for Donald Trump? Yeah, it was California. So how is
(19:36):
Calls going to govern a country built on progressive values
when so many of its people seem to want something different?
The answer is actually pretty wild, because despite what they've said,
a progressive nation may not actually be what Marcus and
Lewis have in mind, and in fact, their plan might
end up achieving the exact opposite. So what's happening today?
(20:01):
Why are you guys here today? It's a rebuke or
refutation of Donald Trump and the fact that America chose
him as their election official. Now, what kind of people
elect a man like that? The answer not Californians. After
the election, huge numbers of liberals flooded into Callegs thinking
it was some kind of escape from Donald Trump's America,
(20:23):
partially because Marcus and Lewis had described it that way.
A lot of these new collegs and supporters were confused
at what they found. Here's Lewis and so when we
were all of a sudden diluged with all these new
left wing and democratic supporters in our campaign, they thought
that this was an anti Trump movement. And they found
(20:44):
out that, oh, Lewis is a registered Republican voted for Trump,
and Marcus was a registered Republican and has been the
host of a conservative talk radio program. They didn't really
like that. It wasn't just that Lewis was a Republican
who had voted for Trump. Lewis, how did track record?
Before I was involved in the California Independence campaign, people
knew me as the person who started the largest social
(21:05):
media campaign against the same sex marriage in the United States,
and it traveled around the United States with a National
Organization for Marriage, which is conservative, right wing group. We
traveled around the country to oppose the spread up same
sex marriage. Back in the late two thousands, Louis Marinelli
was one of the nation's foremost opponents of marriage equality.
While he later recanted his views, it was hard to
(21:27):
tell if this conversion was genuine or just politically convenient.
Here's theos later he was an early Callegit supporter. When
I met Louis, he was pretending to be kind of
a recovering Republican who had made some mistakes in his
past but now wanted to open inclusive culture and independent California.
(21:48):
I don't believe that he actually ever really helped those views,
but I think that he was pretending to in order
to find people to work with on this project. Lewis
is actually pretty up about the fact that he intentionally
disguised his beliefs to people within Call Exit. I personally
felt like my job was to represent the movement more
(22:08):
than my personal views, and so therefore a lot of
times I found myself moderating my views, biting my tongue,
just to simply not make it a campaign about Louis
Marinelli's personal views. But I was able to keep it
from becoming too far left wing, you know, as I
was able to be that moderate voice and try to
filter some of the craziness that comes out of the
(22:29):
far left. I was able to present the argument for
cal Exit from that point of view, and instead of saying, well,
California should becoming independent because we can save the world,
and we can save the whales, and we can, you know,
stop the trees from being cut down, I wouldn't allow
the movement to become a woke politics, left wing quote campaign.
(22:49):
Cal Exit at least Lewis's version wouldn't create a new
progressive nation. It might actually achieve the opposite, reducing liberal
control of California government and giving more power to conservative
places like Shasta County. I had always hoped that if
California became an independent country, that the system and government
in Sacramento would be reformed to implement something like proportional representation,
(23:12):
that it wouldn't be just one party rule by the
Democratic Party, and that would I think be better representative
of the state than just the Democratic Party. There's nothing wrong,
of course, with the idea of giving more power to
people with differing views, and proportional representation is how many
other countries work, like the UK. But the point is this,
(23:33):
California isn't as progressive as most people believe it has
millions of voters like Carlos Apata and Terry Proposa, in
their vision of California looks a lot different from what
collegs it is promising. What would California led by the
far right look like. Shasta County is a great example.
Today it's in the middle of a war for control
(23:55):
of its own government and the far right is winning.
Which brings us back to the tape that you heard
at the beginning of this episode. Look in my eyes,
don because I'm speaking to you. If you people don't
get if you think that we're gonna dig it in,
because families or children, this is Alan County. We're fine
(24:20):
to take it back for people like you. That voice
that you're hearing belongs to Carlos Apata. He's speaking from
a podium during a meeting in the chambers of the
Shasta County Board of Supervisors. Donnie Chamberlain was there. Donnie
has aggressively reported on Carlos since he first came to prominence.
In August, Here's Donnie Carlos Spatter wrote a post which
(24:43):
we have a screenshot of somewhere that says, you know,
we're the ones in charge. Wait till we take over
the whole fucking county and we'll recall all their asses
and I'll be in charge, and that kind of thing.
So that seed was planted about recalling the whole board.
Everybody today Carlos Apata is a highly visible supporter of
an effort to recall and replace Shasta County's Board of
(25:06):
Supervisors with the slate of far right candidates. The recall
campaign was to remove the entire Board of Supervisors and
take back Shasta County and make it how they want it,
more like a fifty first state. It'll be like a
hostile takeover and then we'll do what we want with
the county. One of the recall campaign's first targets with
(25:28):
Mary Rickard, this isn't just a recall that was just
the tip of the iceberg. This is a complete, unequivocal
overthrow of the government. It's all about that control and
take over a power well they haven't. They are in
control now. Mary survived the recall against her, but others
(25:48):
weren't as lucky. The far right now controls a majority
of votes on the board and they're making big changes
purging the government of opposition, including firing the county health
officer for enforcing stay at COVID policies. We were just
a small conservative county and we've been overtaken and targeted
by an extreme group of people who want to make
(26:10):
it even more conservative than it already was. There's white
Christian nationalists, there's Proud Boys their state of Jefferson. There's
a cotton Wooden militia, and so there are all these groups,
but the one thing they all have in common is
liberty and freedom. And by liberty and freedom they mean
to do whatever they damn well want. He's Terry Reposa
(26:34):
and Martin Luther King of course, said I have a dream,
and I think that's what we're missing in America now
is having a dream to do whatever you want, however
you want it. And I think that's something we're missing. Yeah,
I don't even know what to say about that. As
for Carlos, the fight in Shasta is just the beginning.
(26:55):
He's founded a media company to teach other far right
activists how to launch their own recall campaigns. He believes
he's helping the usher in a new era of government
in California. I mean most people are sucking retarded, you know.
I mean you could ask him who the vice president is.
They want to know he speak of the houses. I
don't know. So I think it's up to intelligent people
that have studied history to understand this country, to get
(27:18):
together and to figure out how to move this thing forward.
You know, I understand people South America. Everybody has a
right to free speech. Absolutely, you can say where the
funk you want. Doesn't we have to listen to you.
It certainly doesn't mean I have to legislate based on
your stupid ideas. You know. Carlos says that his views
aren't being heard in government, and then in the next
breath he also says he doesn't have to listen to
people that he disagrees with. It makes it pretty clear
(27:41):
that when he says he wants fair representation, he really
just means he wants a system that's more representative of him.
Democrats vastly outnumbered Republicans in California. But in a state
of forty million people, that means there are millions of
conservatives who feel disenfranchised from the current syst them and
some of them on the far right are angry enough
(28:03):
that they're taking action and Shasta that's had some pretty
scary results. So what do you do about it? Do
you just tell Carlos a Pada majority rules and call
it a day. According to Marcus from calls it, well, yeah,
I'm of the opinion of you follow the law and
democracies what it is. You represent a tiny fraction of
(28:24):
the population. It's not going to go the way that
you want. Sorry, your option is to move or do
what a lot of the other Republicans and Conservatives in
California do, deal with it and just stay here. And
as far as the state of Jefferson, Marcus sees no
reason why calls it would let the region claim it's independence,
the Jefferson Region, they're not really any sort of bargaining position.
(28:47):
You know, they can't go, We'll leave and it will
hurt your economy. No, Well, you're a fraction of the
population and your fraction economy, so you really can't do
anything to impact us other than just complain. The thing is, though,
I don't think calexit can actually afford to let Jefferson leave,
because Jefferson and Shasta County have something that California really needs. Water.
(29:11):
California as we know it today would not exist without
the water system that moves water from northern California to
southern California. If you live in Sacramento or San Francisco,
a big portion of your water is coming from northern California.
In fact, all of California's big cities rely on water
(29:33):
that comes from somewhere else, from upstate, from the Sierra
Nevada Mountains, or even from out of state entirely, which
brings us to the subject of our next episode. Water.
Historic droughts worsened by climate change have put California's water
supply under massive strain, and if cals it were to occur,
some people think that it could create a crisis. You
(29:55):
won't be surprised to hear that Marcus from cal Exit
has a point of view on that water. We have
no water problem in California. Everybody's wrong. There is no
water issue in California. We have no water problem at all.
Everybody's dead wrong. The next episode we ask what about water.
It's a topic that literal wars have been fought over
(30:16):
and colleagues that are not more wars might be coming
to California. Power and possessions and pleasure and the day
have ruined history. They've caused so much suffering throughout forever. Power,
possessions and pleasure. And with those guys, it's power and
it's money. They want money. That's next time on the
(30:38):
Last Resort. The Last Resort is an Interval Presents original
production from Awfully Nice. From Interval Presents, The executive producers
(30:59):
are All and Ky and Jake Kleinberg. Executive producers from
Awfully Nice are Jesse Burton and Katie Hodges. Written and
produced by Jesse Burton and Dana Bulut. Associate producer is
Suzanne Gaber. Project management by Kadi Kama Kat Editing, sound
design and mix by Nick Sabriano and Keiana McLellan of
(31:19):
Bang Audio. Post original music by My Boy Manta Way,
Yuki and Me Shoot Tescott, Theme song by Me, Shoot
Test Scott and Sweet. Sound fact checking by Lauren Vespoli.
Script consultation by William Bauer. Operations lead is Sarah You.
Business development lead is Cheffi a Lenswig, and marketing lead
is Samara still Special thanks to a Phillips production. I'm
(31:42):
your host, Shoot Scott. For a full list of the
sources used in this episode, please check the show notes.
Make sure to follow, rate, and review The Last Resort
on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Stitcher, or wherever you
get your podcast. Thank you for listening. We wont I
wrote it was yeah,
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