November 29, 2022 • 31 mins
Marcus tries to rebuild the CAL EXIT movement, but sabotage from Louis creates new jeopardy. Then, the FBI ensnares a supporter. Can CAL EXIT escape its complicated past? And we ask: how do we chart a new path forward for America? Sources:
- Young Broadcasting of San Francisco, Inc.
- ABC Action News
- Slavic Sacramento
- MSBNC
- MSBNC
- The Rubin Report
- Fox Business
- American Archive of Public Broadcasting
- NBC News Archives
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
It was just after two am on November with three
boats cast off into the icy waters north of San Francisco,
their destination the abandoned federal prison on Alcatraz Island. The
boats were packed with Native American activists intent on season
(00:27):
control of Alcatraz. Why to send a message. Here's Geneva
Sea boy, she was there that night. I think it
was basic Crea Shane. Hey, these are the issues we
are faced with. We aren't being treated equally. Was the
beginning of movements to acquire things that were taken away
(00:52):
on Geneva's boat was one of the organizers of the protests,
the seven year old iron worker by the name of
Richard Oakes. He was very charismatic person, very intelligent, articulate.
He had a type of way about him, you know,
when he wanted to relay a message, he could get
(01:16):
it across and people would listen. On his starboard side,
Richard could see the golden gate bridge glowing red against
the dark sky. Up ahead. Helicopters circled the rocky island.
Witnesses would later report that the prison was lit up
like a Christmas tree. The coach guard was alerted by then.
(01:38):
Here the you know, circular the island and shining their spotlights.
To Richard's surprise, the government security forces hung back, allowing
the boats to land safely. The activists gathered in the
desolate former residence of the prison warden. Someone started to
play a drum. The occupation of our a Traz had begun.
(02:02):
We are the Native Americans, reclaimed this landowners Alcatraz Island
in the name of all American Indians by writers Discovery
Real Purchase said Alcatraz Island for two and glass beats
and red cloth. A president set by the white man's
purchase of a similar island about three years ago. Alcatraz
is a tiny barren rock. The prison was crumbling and abandoned.
(02:24):
So why would Richard, Geneva and the others risk their
lives to take it freed up? I think that's what
it was. It was freedom, because when we were out
on the island, we fout free. We've spent the last
seven episodes telling you the history of cal X cal
Marcus and Louis took their long shot idea into the mainstream,
(02:46):
and how it all came crashing down. Today, Calls is
trying to rebuild. But as you'll hear new developments in
the Russian scandal and the rupture and the friendship between
Marcus Ruiz Evans and Louis Marinelli can continue to threaten
the movement's potential. In this our season finale, we examine
the future of Calxit, and we'll ask one final question.
(03:10):
Could calls it really set Californians free? As it turns out,
the answer depends a lot on what you mean by free.
From Interval presents an awfully nice this is the last
resort I'm shoot got Episode eight, Alcatraz. Oh, we're gonna
(03:38):
go file paperwork. We we can't have everybody in all right.
In the years after the Russia scandal, Marcus and Lewis
made multiple attempts to recapture the momentum. On Valentine's Day,
they filed for a second Calaxit Ballet initiative, What California
is following for a divorce from the United States? Because
(03:59):
talking abouts So we're gonna have a vote in May fourth.
May fourth is also Star Wars Dea and so may
the forest with us? Uh. The initiative was later abandoned.
Louis announced plans to run for governor of California while
still living in Russia. Here's Connie Marcus mom, Louis is
(04:21):
out of the country, and yet Louis thinks he's going
to run for governor of California. Ludicrous. So Louis then
is trying to really get Marcus to help manage a
lot of what Louis needed to get done on the
front line. He ended his campaign after backlash. All along
(04:42):
the way. Despite the controversy, Marcus stayed loyal to his friend.
I love him, but he's a rascal. I do not
regret my friendship with Louis Marinelli. I love Louis Marinelli.
I respect Louis's brain when it comes to marketing. I
believe in second chance. So I'm not religious, but I
grew up Mexican Catholic and the idea of forgiveness and
(05:05):
people can turn another leaf was beaten into me, uh figuratively.
In the end, this loyalty was not repaid. On December fourteen, one,
five years after reports first emerged of his Russian ties,
Louis Mayrinelli published a blog post declaring that cal Exit
was dead and he was killing it. We asked Lewis
(05:27):
to read part of his statement for us. It is
vitally important for millions of rational, normal people living in California,
the state as we know it never becomes an independent country.
Independence would unbind California from the only thing that has
thus far kept it from completely deteriorating into a third
(05:47):
world communist state. That one thing is the United States Constitution.
This is an aggressive opinion about California, coming from a
man who founded the California Independence Movement and spent the
last seven year is promoting California exceptionalism and making the
case for its independence. Lewis went on to say that
it was time for him to make his own exit.
(06:09):
He and his family were moving out of Russia and
cutting all ties to California. As such, so comes to
the end of the California Independence Movement, which is hereby
ceasing all activity. For Marcus, who had devoted much of
the previous decade fighting for Coles, the letter wasn't just
a shock, it was an insult and a betrayal. I
(06:31):
think he's flipped. I think that's a symbol of a
man who's had a psychotic break because I remember the
man before. When we first started hanging out. He was
a English teacher for a university in San Diego, what
happened to that guy five years ago? And how did
he become this guy? I think he felt very abused.
(06:52):
It's like losing your brother. They shared all kinds of
conversations and life and things like that, and I think
he was just grief stricken. And I had to point
that out because n F he can be your friend,
but he it's also your enemy. In the months after
Louis posted his letter, he and Marcus became bitterly estranged,
(07:15):
fighting over control of Yes California's social media handles and
other issues. Louis mocked the Calsan movement that he had
co founded. He even started a new initiative, the Campaign
for National Partition c NP, possibly just to troll the
other CNP, the California National Party. I still wanted to
support the general mission of a national partition and national divorce,
(07:39):
and so I decided that Yes California would become the
state level chapter of a new national movement called the
Campaign for National Partition, which also has the abbreviation CMP.
It's uh well, I would like to confirm or deny
if that was intentional. By the middle of Marcus and
Louis were no longer on speaking terms. Well, Marcus doesn't
(08:01):
answer my calls, and so that's on him because he
is going to be upset, uh like a little baby.
I think that Marcus needs some time to get over
his frustration or whatever. I think that he might come
around when he realizes that he's not able to make progress.
He's gonna miss the days when Louis Marinelli could give
(08:24):
him some presentation. The fight with Louis was embarrassing and
a distraction. Marcus just wanted to move on. The movement
is not dead. It's still here. We've been investigated multiple times.
One guy is doing his best to burn the whole
thing down and burn all the crops, but the entire
rest of the movement doesn't follow him, and so we're
(08:47):
going through a really nasty divorce. But hundred sixty people
still believe. But then disaster struck again. On Tuesday, a
(09:08):
federal grand jury sitting in Tampa, Florida, returned an indictment
charging Russian national Alexander viktorovich ian Off with conspiring to
use several US persons as agents of Russia without prior
notification to the Attorney General. On July, the Department of
(09:32):
Justice announced charges against Alexander Janov calls it's partner in
Russia and the president of the anti globalization movement ian Off,
engaged in a malign influenced campaign two so discord, spread propaganda,
and interfere in elections within the United States, all of
(09:54):
which was orchestrated by the Russian Federal Security Service known
as the FSB. By the way, the FSB is the
Russian equivalent of like the CIA, I directed and control
the activities of three US political groups, including one right
here in St. Petersburg, Florida, another in Atlanta, Georgia, and
(10:19):
a third in Sacramento, California. We called Marcus after the
charges were announced. What did this indictment mean exactly? The
indictment says it's against Ianov Russian citizens, saying that he
consciously received direction from the FSP, so he was pretending
(10:43):
to be a nonprofit while secretly taking orders from the
fs B with the intended purpose of destroying America. The
indictment made new allegations about Calgs's ties to Russia. That's
one from cal legs it probably Lewis had taken cash
from Yanov and that this person was taking orders from
(11:06):
him as well. The indictment says that unidentified co conspirator six,
which they seem to suggest as Lewis Marinelli, worked for
political Group three or something. They mean, yes, California. To
my knowledge, the indictment was picked up in major newspapers
like the New York Times, and just like that Cale's
(11:29):
it was back in the headlines again, but for all
the wrong reasons. I am in North America somewhere. When
we reached Louis for his reaction, he had left Russia,
but he didn't want to tell us where he was.
We asked him, had he taken money from Alexander Yanov?
(11:50):
Yo has given me some money from time to time
when I asked for it, simply because the money it
was available to help support certain causes. And I just
took the money because someone's offering a couple hundred dollars,
so who's gonna not take a couple hundred dollars. Louis
says he wasn't working for young Of and that the
(12:11):
money came with no strings attached, But at the same
time he was scared. He didn't know what yan Of
might be capable of. There were some jokes that he
made from time to time along the lines of that
you're safe in Russia thanks to me or something, and
so if you analyze that context, it might mean that
the opposite is true. What happens if he's no longer
(12:32):
in the picture, that you're not safe in Russian I
felt the need to keep him happy, or at least
feel like I could be of use to him, because
if I was not and he used him, perhaps he
could cause trouble for me as an American in Russia.
Louis didn't know if Yanov was a Russian spy, and
he didn't really want to find out. I don't know
(12:53):
who he is. I never had confirmed information that he
was an agent of the Russian in telligence services. For example,
if you wanted to cause me problems, I think that
he would be in a position to do that simply
because he would have contexts and anybody know somebody, and
he would be able to do that. According to Louis,
there was no conspiracy between him and the Russian government,
(13:14):
and certainly not between Russia and Calesa. He had just
done what he thinks anyone in his shoes would do.
Take some free money and try not to piss off
the shady, well connected guy who had taken an interest
in Louis's political activism. I was acting as a political
activists exercise my right to free speech, and it didn't
require Alexander for Russians telling me to do something. I
(13:37):
was doing it myself. Um, there is one side of
the story that we haven't heard yet, Alexander janovs We
interviewed Alexander Janov several times while working on this podcast
(14:00):
recently in the days after his indictment. Sometimes he spoke
with us directly and sometimes through an interpreter who refers
to Yanov as Sasha. We wanted to know what did
he think of the charges against him. The message to
your business simple, He's very sorry and upset that there
(14:25):
are double standards in USA, and as a result, a
criminal case was opened. Janov claims that it's not Russia
interfering in US affairs, it's the other way around. He
says he was exposing US propaganda operations in Russia and
the charges against him are retaliation. And yes, he did
(14:46):
donate a small amount of money, maybe five dollars to Calsit,
but he says he gives money to lots of causes
he supports. For example, Jana says that he donated to
Joe Biden's presidential campaign. Sasha also financed the Democratic Party,
hoping that Biden would be more adequate to present than
(15:07):
Trump two thousand dollars. I'm open to the League and
the Nations of Democracy Party, and we really supported the
Biden the president election. In case you're wondering, it's actually
illegal for foreigners to donate the US political campaigns. But
in any event, Jana says his donations were too small
(15:28):
to make a difference. You need a lot more than
five hundred dollars to make collecs that happen. Five hundred
dollars is not enough to separate California and to do
collect it. And what we're discussing today is five dollars
in a comparison of thousands and Marian's dollars from the
(15:49):
Yes government to Russia's foreign agencies, and it is crazy. Finally,
we wanted to know what was his relationship with Lewis Marinelli.
Were they friends? Funny enough, Janov says he kept this
distance from Lewis out of fears that he might be
(16:09):
working for the FBI. Sacha said that they only communicated
exclusively at Big Dialogue cognitions platform, or when Lewis wanted
to hold some kind of events, but since Sasha understood
that Lewis has some connections with FBI agents, he didn't
help him o provide some of systems. It's all enough
(16:40):
to make your head spin. Was Louis and FBI asset
is Alexander Yanov a Russian spy? We may never get
the full truth. Janov is a Russian citizen living in Russia,
so it's unlikely that he'll ever be brought to trial
in the US. But at the very least, the whole
Weird men See story raises a lot of questions, not
(17:02):
just about the idea of Call Exit, but about the
judgment and intention of its founders. It's hard to know
what Louis really believes in and what his motives are.
After all, the same guy who said this, I mean,
I'm a progressive liberal, so I supported Bernie Sanders as
a candidate for president also said this the right wing conservative,
(17:25):
national populist, anti establishment, anti globalist. I don't want to
live in California and I don't agree with most of
what Californians believe in. Was Louis just trolling us? The
whole time. As from Marcus, you have to wonder about
him too. Why would he stand by Louis and by
cal Exit at such great personal cost? What's in it
(17:49):
for him? We get that question a lot. Is this
so that you can become president? As we said, it's
gonna be up to the California voters, And so a
lot of people here, clearing myself, were said, hey, you know,
once we get this in and the vote saying we're
going to succeed, that will be huge, and all of
us will be famous, and all of us who were
in the movement from way back will be like gods.
And so we could run for office and then we
could formerly be part of the decision making process coming forward.
(18:12):
Whatever their motives, Marcus and Louis have presided over a
cal Exit campaign marred by controversy and scandal. As a result,
some believe their continued association with Calxit is holding the
movement back. Here's theos later from the California National Party.
I've never had as much trouble with Marcus as I
(18:33):
have had with Louis. I think that he means well,
but he has been led astray. Everything to do with
Louis made yes California toxic. That was the heart of
all of their tactical mistakes and everything that they did
wrong and every way that they harmed California, that they
harmed the California independence movement, and that they harmed themselves.
(19:00):
Alexander Janov told us something else, something troubling, that he
wasn't just linking up with secessionists like Marcus and Lewis.
When we first interviewed him before he was indicted. He
also bragged about his relationships with US business leaders. You know,
I am steak Reason, the two big businessman, Peter Teal
(19:23):
and I read the one article about the California station
to three States. Did you catch that name? Janov was
claiming to have met with a man named Peter Teal.
You know, I am speak Reason, the two big businessman Tal.
We've talked about Till on the show before. He's the
(19:46):
billionaire investor behind the Sea Setting Institute. He's spoken positively
about Calexit. Meet Peter Till, the billionaire's behind companies like paink,
pal and Pal and Tier, the first outside investor in
Facebook and and Silicon Valley's ultimate contrarian thinker. But that's
not the whole story. On Peter TiO. He's also one
(20:07):
of the largest political donors in the United States. This year,
he spent close to thirty million dollars in support of
far right candidates that he hand picked for the U. S. Senate.
The PayPal co founder was one of President Trump's most
ardent supporters. We know that till has been a patron
of the far right to meeting with people who have
been described as ideological architects of white nationalism. Peter TiO
(20:30):
wields enormous influence over the future of the country, both
through his political activities and through the role his business
plays in our national defense. So if he has met
with Alexander Yanov, a person accused of working with Russian
intelligence to destabilize the US, he raises a big question.
Why what did they discuss and is there more to
(20:53):
their connection than just one meeting. We haven't been able
to confirm Janov's claims about meeting Peter too, It's not
for lack of trying. When we asked Teal and his
reps for comment, our questions were ignored. As for Joan Off,
after his FBI indictment, we asked him about Teal again.
This is what he said Okay, so now he cannot
(21:19):
say who he met because there is a criminal case.
Now secually just will not comment at all on his
meetings with everyone from the United States to agerit any
persecution for these people. There's a reason we keep talking
(21:43):
about Peter Teal on this show, a reason that gets
to the very heart of the Callex story. Back in
two thousand nine, Teal published an essay to highlight his
support for the c Setting Institute. It was called The
Education of a Libertarian. The essay contained a number of
startling and condemnable ideas. For example, Teel hoped to become immortal,
(22:07):
writing quote, I stand against the ideology of the inevitability
of death for every individual unquote. He lamented the fact
that women who don't tend to support libertarian ideas were
provided the right to vote, and finally, he wrote this quote,
I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible unquote.
(22:31):
You might be thinking, how could that be. Aren't freedom
and democracy kind of the same thing. We've been exploring
the tension between freedom and democracy in every episode of
this podcast. To help us understand the distinction, we need
to go back to November nine and the abandoned federal
prison on Alcatraz Island. On November a group of Native
(23:01):
activists landed on Alcatraz. Their goal was to reclaim land
that had been stolen by the federal government. Just eighty
nine people occupy the island at first, but as words spread,
more and more people arrived. They built their own school,
healthcare center, even a radio station from Radio Free Alcatraz
(23:23):
and welcoming you to Indian Land Alcatraz on behalf of
the Indians of all Tribes. In response, the Coast Guard
enacted a blockade, trying to stop the supply of food
and water. But it didn't matter right now, It doesn't
make a difference really what Washington does. There is only
one way now that Washington can never stop this, and
(23:44):
it's to come out here with armed troops and take
us forcibly. After here, here's Geneva Sea Boy again. She
was one of the original occupiers of Alcatraz Island. When
I think about it, maybe it could have been jail,
could have been shot, But at the time I didn't
even think about those. Oh, I just feel of excitement.
(24:06):
Geneva was excited because they're on Alcatraz Island. She was
feeling something. She had never felt before. We didn't worry
about being stopped for a violation of anything. I wasn't
worried about where it's going to eat, I wasn't worried
about where it's going to screep. And everybody was so
happy and working together. You know, it was really nice.
(24:26):
So it was freedom for Geneva. Freedom was about community,
not separation. It was not about doing whatever she wanted.
It was about living without persecution. Here's Alex Kasnavish, author
of Sabatistas Rebellion From the Grassroots to the Global. We
heard from him last episode. So when the Sapatistas, for example,
(24:49):
talk about autonomy, they are not talking about autonomy and
this kind of don't tread on me, my personal space,
my will, my property. They are actually talking about autonomy
in its most sophisticated formation, which is a relational form.
Because I can't have autonomy, I can't rule myself fairly, justly,
in a dignified way unless I acknowledge your right to
(25:11):
do so too. So nobody's autonomy gets to trump anybody else's.
We begin with a recognition of mutual existence and dignity
and justice. In the United States, however, freedom has historically
meant something pretty different. The word freedom has somehow come
to me in my right basically to do whatever I
(25:32):
want free of consequence, so long as I have the
power to enact that. That's a very familiar form of power,
and it's so familiar I think we become accustomed to
associating it with the only way we can understand power,
which is a huge mistake. One of the things that
Spatistas did was to remind us that our power actually
comes from the collective ability to live with dignity, to
(25:55):
work together, to struggle alongside one another. Power is only
exercise relationally. Freedom can't be absolute through this lens. The
whole notion of cal egsit isn't really about freedom, then,
is it. It's kind of just another fight overpower. It's
a movement trying to solve our problems by avoiding them.
It's putting up borders between us and our perceived political
(26:18):
opponents so we no longer have to listen to what
they have to say. All of this points to one conclusion.
Changing our borders isn't going to solve America's divisions. What
we need is something far more fundamental. Greetings, everybody, my
(26:50):
name is shoes. This got not Martinez. Can we get
a round of approse for the graduating class real quick?
This past June, I was invited to speak at the
graduation ceremony of a school in East Los Angeles called
an International University. The school teaches the usual subjects like
math and science, but embedded into the curriculum is another concept.
(27:13):
Here's how it appears on the mission statement written in
my language nawa ana I. In English, it translates to quote,
(27:34):
A student will learn in every deliberation to consider the
impact of one's decisions on the seven generations to come
and all natural relations end quote. One of the world's
oldest living democracies is the hut Nashoni Confederacy. It's a
group of tribal nations whose lands stretched from Ohio to
New York. The confederacy originated a concept known as the
(27:57):
seventh Generation principle, a principle that the Anaa School continues today.
It states that the decisions we make today should result
in a prosperous world seven generations into the future. It
requires us to be accountable in our relationships with the
land and with each other. And I think if you
look back through history through any great social movements, you
(28:19):
can see the change has always come from community. One
thing that we can all really resonate with, especially coming
from Ana, is getting rid of this idea of being
self made. I think each and every one of us
are here today because we are community made. I know
for a fact that I am who I am. I've
reached the places I've been able to reach. I've been
(28:39):
able to share the voice that I have because of
my ancestors, because of these teachings that ground me to
a connection that is deeper than just myself. I don't
know what the future holds, if cals it will ever happen,
if we'll have a national divorce or civil war. What
I do believe is that replacing unjust systems is going
(29:01):
to require us to build community, not split. Apart from
the George Floyd protests, to the landback movement, to the
mutual aid that kept communities afloat through the pandemic, everything
that's pushed us forward these last few years has come
from people being brave enough to imagine a more just
world and humble enough to build it together. The United
(29:23):
States was founded as a settler republic, granting freedom to
white men at the expense of democracy for all. It's
the country that people like Peter Teal and Donald Trump
are working hard to preserve. We've seen where that vision
of America takes us division, inequality, violence, and environmental catastrophe.
(29:44):
Maybe it's time that we follow the examples of Geneva,
Sea Boy, of the Sabatistas, of the Huntershony Confederacy, and
let a new vision for our future take flight. The
(30:05):
Last Resort is an Interval Presents original production from Awfully Nice.
From Interval Presents. The executive producers are Alan Coy and
Jake Kleinberg. Executive producers from Awfully Nice are Jesse Burton
and Katie Hodges. Written and produced by Jesse Burton and
Dana Bulut. Associate producer is Suzanne Gaber. Project management by
(30:26):
Kadi Kamakat, Editing, sound design and mix by Nick Sabriano
and Keiana McClellan of Bang Audio. Post original music by
my Boy, Manta Way Yuhi and Me shoot Test Scott.
Theme song by Me, shoot Test Scott and Sweet. Sound
fact checking by Lauren Vespoli. Script consultation by William Bauer.
Operations lead is Sarah You. Business Development lead is Cheffi,
(30:49):
a Lenswig and marketing lead. Is Samara still special? Thanks
to James Napoli, I'm your host, shoot Test Scott. For
a full list of the sources used in this episode,
please check the show notes. Make sure to follow, rate,
and review The Last Resort on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Stitcher,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening.
(31:10):
Roll the Wars. We do when we won. I wrote
the Wars. Yeah,
It was just after two am on November with three
boats cast off into the icy waters north of San Francisco,
their destination the abandoned federal prison on Alcatraz Island. The
boats were packed with Native American activists intent on season
(00:27):
control of Alcatraz. Why to send a message. Here's Geneva
Sea boy, she was there that night. I think it
was basic Crea Shane. Hey, these are the issues we
are faced with. We aren't being treated equally. Was the
beginning of movements to acquire things that were taken away
(00:52):
on Geneva's boat was one of the organizers of the protests,
the seven year old iron worker by the name of
Richard Oakes. He was very charismatic person, very intelligent, articulate.
He had a type of way about him, you know,
when he wanted to relay a message, he could get
(01:16):
it across and people would listen. On his starboard side,
Richard could see the golden gate bridge glowing red against
the dark sky. Up ahead. Helicopters circled the rocky island.
Witnesses would later report that the prison was lit up
like a Christmas tree. The coach guard was alerted by then.
(01:38):
Here the you know, circular the island and shining their spotlights.
To Richard's surprise, the government security forces hung back, allowing
the boats to land safely. The activists gathered in the
desolate former residence of the prison warden. Someone started to
play a drum. The occupation of our a Traz had begun.
(02:02):
We are the Native Americans, reclaimed this landowners Alcatraz Island
in the name of all American Indians by writers Discovery
Real Purchase said Alcatraz Island for two and glass beats
and red cloth. A president set by the white man's
purchase of a similar island about three years ago. Alcatraz
is a tiny barren rock. The prison was crumbling and abandoned.
(02:24):
So why would Richard, Geneva and the others risk their
lives to take it freed up? I think that's what
it was. It was freedom, because when we were out
on the island, we fout free. We've spent the last
seven episodes telling you the history of cal X cal
Marcus and Louis took their long shot idea into the mainstream,
(02:46):
and how it all came crashing down. Today, Calls is
trying to rebuild. But as you'll hear new developments in
the Russian scandal and the rupture and the friendship between
Marcus Ruiz Evans and Louis Marinelli can continue to threaten
the movement's potential. In this our season finale, we examine
the future of Calxit, and we'll ask one final question.
(03:10):
Could calls it really set Californians free? As it turns out,
the answer depends a lot on what you mean by free.
From Interval presents an awfully nice this is the last
resort I'm shoot got Episode eight, Alcatraz. Oh, we're gonna
(03:38):
go file paperwork. We we can't have everybody in all right.
In the years after the Russia scandal, Marcus and Lewis
made multiple attempts to recapture the momentum. On Valentine's Day,
they filed for a second Calaxit Ballet initiative, What California
is following for a divorce from the United States? Because
(03:59):
talking abouts So we're gonna have a vote in May fourth.
May fourth is also Star Wars Dea and so may
the forest with us? Uh. The initiative was later abandoned.
Louis announced plans to run for governor of California while
still living in Russia. Here's Connie Marcus mom, Louis is
(04:21):
out of the country, and yet Louis thinks he's going
to run for governor of California. Ludicrous. So Louis then
is trying to really get Marcus to help manage a
lot of what Louis needed to get done on the
front line. He ended his campaign after backlash. All along
(04:42):
the way. Despite the controversy, Marcus stayed loyal to his friend.
I love him, but he's a rascal. I do not
regret my friendship with Louis Marinelli. I love Louis Marinelli.
I respect Louis's brain when it comes to marketing. I
believe in second chance. So I'm not religious, but I
grew up Mexican Catholic and the idea of forgiveness and
(05:05):
people can turn another leaf was beaten into me, uh figuratively.
In the end, this loyalty was not repaid. On December fourteen, one,
five years after reports first emerged of his Russian ties,
Louis Mayrinelli published a blog post declaring that cal Exit
was dead and he was killing it. We asked Lewis
(05:27):
to read part of his statement for us. It is
vitally important for millions of rational, normal people living in California,
the state as we know it never becomes an independent country.
Independence would unbind California from the only thing that has
thus far kept it from completely deteriorating into a third
(05:47):
world communist state. That one thing is the United States Constitution.
This is an aggressive opinion about California, coming from a
man who founded the California Independence Movement and spent the
last seven year is promoting California exceptionalism and making the
case for its independence. Lewis went on to say that
it was time for him to make his own exit.
(06:09):
He and his family were moving out of Russia and
cutting all ties to California. As such, so comes to
the end of the California Independence Movement, which is hereby
ceasing all activity. For Marcus, who had devoted much of
the previous decade fighting for Coles, the letter wasn't just
a shock, it was an insult and a betrayal. I
(06:31):
think he's flipped. I think that's a symbol of a
man who's had a psychotic break because I remember the
man before. When we first started hanging out. He was
a English teacher for a university in San Diego, what
happened to that guy five years ago? And how did
he become this guy? I think he felt very abused.
(06:52):
It's like losing your brother. They shared all kinds of
conversations and life and things like that, and I think
he was just grief stricken. And I had to point
that out because n F he can be your friend,
but he it's also your enemy. In the months after
Louis posted his letter, he and Marcus became bitterly estranged,
(07:15):
fighting over control of Yes California's social media handles and
other issues. Louis mocked the Calsan movement that he had
co founded. He even started a new initiative, the Campaign
for National Partition c NP, possibly just to troll the
other CNP, the California National Party. I still wanted to
support the general mission of a national partition and national divorce,
(07:39):
and so I decided that Yes California would become the
state level chapter of a new national movement called the
Campaign for National Partition, which also has the abbreviation CMP.
It's uh well, I would like to confirm or deny
if that was intentional. By the middle of Marcus and
Louis were no longer on speaking terms. Well, Marcus doesn't
(08:01):
answer my calls, and so that's on him because he
is going to be upset, uh like a little baby.
I think that Marcus needs some time to get over
his frustration or whatever. I think that he might come
around when he realizes that he's not able to make progress.
He's gonna miss the days when Louis Marinelli could give
(08:24):
him some presentation. The fight with Louis was embarrassing and
a distraction. Marcus just wanted to move on. The movement
is not dead. It's still here. We've been investigated multiple times.
One guy is doing his best to burn the whole
thing down and burn all the crops, but the entire
rest of the movement doesn't follow him, and so we're
(08:47):
going through a really nasty divorce. But hundred sixty people
still believe. But then disaster struck again. On Tuesday, a
(09:08):
federal grand jury sitting in Tampa, Florida, returned an indictment
charging Russian national Alexander viktorovich ian Off with conspiring to
use several US persons as agents of Russia without prior
notification to the Attorney General. On July, the Department of
(09:32):
Justice announced charges against Alexander Janov calls it's partner in
Russia and the president of the anti globalization movement ian Off,
engaged in a malign influenced campaign two so discord, spread propaganda,
and interfere in elections within the United States, all of
(09:54):
which was orchestrated by the Russian Federal Security Service known
as the FSB. By the way, the FSB is the
Russian equivalent of like the CIA, I directed and control
the activities of three US political groups, including one right
here in St. Petersburg, Florida, another in Atlanta, Georgia, and
(10:19):
a third in Sacramento, California. We called Marcus after the
charges were announced. What did this indictment mean exactly? The
indictment says it's against Ianov Russian citizens, saying that he
consciously received direction from the FSP, so he was pretending
(10:43):
to be a nonprofit while secretly taking orders from the
fs B with the intended purpose of destroying America. The
indictment made new allegations about Calgs's ties to Russia. That's
one from cal legs it probably Lewis had taken cash
from Yanov and that this person was taking orders from
(11:06):
him as well. The indictment says that unidentified co conspirator six,
which they seem to suggest as Lewis Marinelli, worked for
political Group three or something. They mean, yes, California. To
my knowledge, the indictment was picked up in major newspapers
like the New York Times, and just like that Cale's
(11:29):
it was back in the headlines again, but for all
the wrong reasons. I am in North America somewhere. When
we reached Louis for his reaction, he had left Russia,
but he didn't want to tell us where he was.
We asked him, had he taken money from Alexander Yanov?
(11:50):
Yo has given me some money from time to time
when I asked for it, simply because the money it
was available to help support certain causes. And I just
took the money because someone's offering a couple hundred dollars,
so who's gonna not take a couple hundred dollars. Louis
says he wasn't working for young Of and that the
(12:11):
money came with no strings attached, But at the same
time he was scared. He didn't know what yan Of
might be capable of. There were some jokes that he
made from time to time along the lines of that
you're safe in Russia thanks to me or something, and
so if you analyze that context, it might mean that
the opposite is true. What happens if he's no longer
(12:32):
in the picture, that you're not safe in Russian I
felt the need to keep him happy, or at least
feel like I could be of use to him, because
if I was not and he used him, perhaps he
could cause trouble for me as an American in Russia.
Louis didn't know if Yanov was a Russian spy, and
he didn't really want to find out. I don't know
(12:53):
who he is. I never had confirmed information that he
was an agent of the Russian in telligence services. For example,
if you wanted to cause me problems, I think that
he would be in a position to do that simply
because he would have contexts and anybody know somebody, and
he would be able to do that. According to Louis,
there was no conspiracy between him and the Russian government,
(13:14):
and certainly not between Russia and Calesa. He had just
done what he thinks anyone in his shoes would do.
Take some free money and try not to piss off
the shady, well connected guy who had taken an interest
in Louis's political activism. I was acting as a political
activists exercise my right to free speech, and it didn't
require Alexander for Russians telling me to do something. I
(13:37):
was doing it myself. Um, there is one side of
the story that we haven't heard yet, Alexander janovs We
interviewed Alexander Janov several times while working on this podcast
(14:00):
recently in the days after his indictment. Sometimes he spoke
with us directly and sometimes through an interpreter who refers
to Yanov as Sasha. We wanted to know what did
he think of the charges against him. The message to
your business simple, He's very sorry and upset that there
(14:25):
are double standards in USA, and as a result, a
criminal case was opened. Janov claims that it's not Russia
interfering in US affairs, it's the other way around. He
says he was exposing US propaganda operations in Russia and
the charges against him are retaliation. And yes, he did
(14:46):
donate a small amount of money, maybe five dollars to Calsit,
but he says he gives money to lots of causes
he supports. For example, Jana says that he donated to
Joe Biden's presidential campaign. Sasha also financed the Democratic Party,
hoping that Biden would be more adequate to present than
(15:07):
Trump two thousand dollars. I'm open to the League and
the Nations of Democracy Party, and we really supported the
Biden the president election. In case you're wondering, it's actually
illegal for foreigners to donate the US political campaigns. But
in any event, Jana says his donations were too small
(15:28):
to make a difference. You need a lot more than
five hundred dollars to make collecs that happen. Five hundred
dollars is not enough to separate California and to do
collect it. And what we're discussing today is five dollars
in a comparison of thousands and Marian's dollars from the
(15:49):
Yes government to Russia's foreign agencies, and it is crazy. Finally,
we wanted to know what was his relationship with Lewis Marinelli.
Were they friends? Funny enough, Janov says he kept this
distance from Lewis out of fears that he might be
(16:09):
working for the FBI. Sacha said that they only communicated
exclusively at Big Dialogue cognitions platform, or when Lewis wanted
to hold some kind of events, but since Sasha understood
that Lewis has some connections with FBI agents, he didn't
help him o provide some of systems. It's all enough
(16:40):
to make your head spin. Was Louis and FBI asset
is Alexander Yanov a Russian spy? We may never get
the full truth. Janov is a Russian citizen living in Russia,
so it's unlikely that he'll ever be brought to trial
in the US. But at the very least, the whole
Weird men See story raises a lot of questions, not
(17:02):
just about the idea of Call Exit, but about the
judgment and intention of its founders. It's hard to know
what Louis really believes in and what his motives are.
After all, the same guy who said this, I mean,
I'm a progressive liberal, so I supported Bernie Sanders as
a candidate for president also said this the right wing conservative,
(17:25):
national populist, anti establishment, anti globalist. I don't want to
live in California and I don't agree with most of
what Californians believe in. Was Louis just trolling us? The
whole time. As from Marcus, you have to wonder about
him too. Why would he stand by Louis and by
cal Exit at such great personal cost? What's in it
(17:49):
for him? We get that question a lot. Is this
so that you can become president? As we said, it's
gonna be up to the California voters, And so a
lot of people here, clearing myself, were said, hey, you know,
once we get this in and the vote saying we're
going to succeed, that will be huge, and all of
us will be famous, and all of us who were
in the movement from way back will be like gods.
And so we could run for office and then we
could formerly be part of the decision making process coming forward.
(18:12):
Whatever their motives, Marcus and Louis have presided over a
cal Exit campaign marred by controversy and scandal. As a result,
some believe their continued association with Calxit is holding the
movement back. Here's theos later from the California National Party.
I've never had as much trouble with Marcus as I
(18:33):
have had with Louis. I think that he means well,
but he has been led astray. Everything to do with
Louis made yes California toxic. That was the heart of
all of their tactical mistakes and everything that they did
wrong and every way that they harmed California, that they
harmed the California independence movement, and that they harmed themselves.
(19:00):
Alexander Janov told us something else, something troubling, that he
wasn't just linking up with secessionists like Marcus and Lewis.
When we first interviewed him before he was indicted. He
also bragged about his relationships with US business leaders. You know,
I am steak Reason, the two big businessman, Peter Teal
(19:23):
and I read the one article about the California station
to three States. Did you catch that name? Janov was
claiming to have met with a man named Peter Teal.
You know, I am speak Reason, the two big businessman Tal.
We've talked about Till on the show before. He's the
(19:46):
billionaire investor behind the Sea Setting Institute. He's spoken positively
about Calexit. Meet Peter Till, the billionaire's behind companies like paink,
pal and Pal and Tier, the first outside investor in
Facebook and and Silicon Valley's ultimate contrarian thinker. But that's
not the whole story. On Peter TiO. He's also one
(20:07):
of the largest political donors in the United States. This year,
he spent close to thirty million dollars in support of
far right candidates that he hand picked for the U. S. Senate.
The PayPal co founder was one of President Trump's most
ardent supporters. We know that till has been a patron
of the far right to meeting with people who have
been described as ideological architects of white nationalism. Peter TiO
(20:30):
wields enormous influence over the future of the country, both
through his political activities and through the role his business
plays in our national defense. So if he has met
with Alexander Yanov, a person accused of working with Russian
intelligence to destabilize the US, he raises a big question.
Why what did they discuss and is there more to
(20:53):
their connection than just one meeting. We haven't been able
to confirm Janov's claims about meeting Peter too, It's not
for lack of trying. When we asked Teal and his
reps for comment, our questions were ignored. As for Joan Off,
after his FBI indictment, we asked him about Teal again.
This is what he said Okay, so now he cannot
(21:19):
say who he met because there is a criminal case.
Now secually just will not comment at all on his
meetings with everyone from the United States to agerit any
persecution for these people. There's a reason we keep talking
(21:43):
about Peter Teal on this show, a reason that gets
to the very heart of the Callex story. Back in
two thousand nine, Teal published an essay to highlight his
support for the c Setting Institute. It was called The
Education of a Libertarian. The essay contained a number of
startling and condemnable ideas. For example, Teel hoped to become immortal,
(22:07):
writing quote, I stand against the ideology of the inevitability
of death for every individual unquote. He lamented the fact
that women who don't tend to support libertarian ideas were
provided the right to vote, and finally, he wrote this quote,
I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible unquote.
(22:31):
You might be thinking, how could that be. Aren't freedom
and democracy kind of the same thing. We've been exploring
the tension between freedom and democracy in every episode of
this podcast. To help us understand the distinction, we need
to go back to November nine and the abandoned federal
prison on Alcatraz Island. On November a group of Native
(23:01):
activists landed on Alcatraz. Their goal was to reclaim land
that had been stolen by the federal government. Just eighty
nine people occupy the island at first, but as words spread,
more and more people arrived. They built their own school,
healthcare center, even a radio station from Radio Free Alcatraz
(23:23):
and welcoming you to Indian Land Alcatraz on behalf of
the Indians of all Tribes. In response, the Coast Guard
enacted a blockade, trying to stop the supply of food
and water. But it didn't matter right now, It doesn't
make a difference really what Washington does. There is only
one way now that Washington can never stop this, and
(23:44):
it's to come out here with armed troops and take
us forcibly. After here, here's Geneva Sea Boy again. She
was one of the original occupiers of Alcatraz Island. When
I think about it, maybe it could have been jail,
could have been shot, But at the time I didn't
even think about those. Oh, I just feel of excitement.
(24:06):
Geneva was excited because they're on Alcatraz Island. She was
feeling something. She had never felt before. We didn't worry
about being stopped for a violation of anything. I wasn't
worried about where it's going to eat, I wasn't worried
about where it's going to screep. And everybody was so
happy and working together. You know, it was really nice.
(24:26):
So it was freedom for Geneva. Freedom was about community,
not separation. It was not about doing whatever she wanted.
It was about living without persecution. Here's Alex Kasnavish, author
of Sabatistas Rebellion From the Grassroots to the Global. We
heard from him last episode. So when the Sapatistas, for example,
(24:49):
talk about autonomy, they are not talking about autonomy and
this kind of don't tread on me, my personal space,
my will, my property. They are actually talking about autonomy
in its most sophisticated formation, which is a relational form.
Because I can't have autonomy, I can't rule myself fairly, justly,
in a dignified way unless I acknowledge your right to
(25:11):
do so too. So nobody's autonomy gets to trump anybody else's.
We begin with a recognition of mutual existence and dignity
and justice. In the United States, however, freedom has historically
meant something pretty different. The word freedom has somehow come
to me in my right basically to do whatever I
(25:32):
want free of consequence, so long as I have the
power to enact that. That's a very familiar form of power,
and it's so familiar I think we become accustomed to
associating it with the only way we can understand power,
which is a huge mistake. One of the things that
Spatistas did was to remind us that our power actually
comes from the collective ability to live with dignity, to
(25:55):
work together, to struggle alongside one another. Power is only
exercise relationally. Freedom can't be absolute through this lens. The
whole notion of cal egsit isn't really about freedom, then,
is it. It's kind of just another fight overpower. It's
a movement trying to solve our problems by avoiding them.
It's putting up borders between us and our perceived political
(26:18):
opponents so we no longer have to listen to what
they have to say. All of this points to one conclusion.
Changing our borders isn't going to solve America's divisions. What
we need is something far more fundamental. Greetings, everybody, my
(26:50):
name is shoes. This got not Martinez. Can we get
a round of approse for the graduating class real quick?
This past June, I was invited to speak at the
graduation ceremony of a school in East Los Angeles called
an International University. The school teaches the usual subjects like
math and science, but embedded into the curriculum is another concept.
(27:13):
Here's how it appears on the mission statement written in
my language nawa ana I. In English, it translates to quote,
(27:34):
A student will learn in every deliberation to consider the
impact of one's decisions on the seven generations to come
and all natural relations end quote. One of the world's
oldest living democracies is the hut Nashoni Confederacy. It's a
group of tribal nations whose lands stretched from Ohio to
New York. The confederacy originated a concept known as the
(27:57):
seventh Generation principle, a principle that the Anaa School continues today.
It states that the decisions we make today should result
in a prosperous world seven generations into the future. It
requires us to be accountable in our relationships with the
land and with each other. And I think if you
look back through history through any great social movements, you
(28:19):
can see the change has always come from community. One
thing that we can all really resonate with, especially coming
from Ana, is getting rid of this idea of being
self made. I think each and every one of us
are here today because we are community made. I know
for a fact that I am who I am. I've
reached the places I've been able to reach. I've been
(28:39):
able to share the voice that I have because of
my ancestors, because of these teachings that ground me to
a connection that is deeper than just myself. I don't
know what the future holds, if cals it will ever happen,
if we'll have a national divorce or civil war. What
I do believe is that replacing unjust systems is going
(29:01):
to require us to build community, not split. Apart from
the George Floyd protests, to the landback movement, to the
mutual aid that kept communities afloat through the pandemic, everything
that's pushed us forward these last few years has come
from people being brave enough to imagine a more just
world and humble enough to build it together. The United
(29:23):
States was founded as a settler republic, granting freedom to
white men at the expense of democracy for all. It's
the country that people like Peter Teal and Donald Trump
are working hard to preserve. We've seen where that vision
of America takes us division, inequality, violence, and environmental catastrophe.
(29:44):
Maybe it's time that we follow the examples of Geneva,
Sea Boy, of the Sabatistas, of the Huntershony Confederacy, and
let a new vision for our future take flight. The
(30:05):
Last Resort is an Interval Presents original production from Awfully Nice.
From Interval Presents. The executive producers are Alan Coy and
Jake Kleinberg. Executive producers from Awfully Nice are Jesse Burton
and Katie Hodges. Written and produced by Jesse Burton and
Dana Bulut. Associate producer is Suzanne Gaber. Project management by
(30:26):
Kadi Kamakat, Editing, sound design and mix by Nick Sabriano
and Keiana McClellan of Bang Audio. Post original music by
my Boy, Manta Way Yuhi and Me shoot Test Scott.
Theme song by Me, shoot Test Scott and Sweet. Sound
fact checking by Lauren Vespoli. Script consultation by William Bauer.
Operations lead is Sarah You. Business Development lead is Cheffi,
(30:49):
a Lenswig and marketing lead. Is Samara still special? Thanks
to James Napoli, I'm your host, shoot Test Scott. For
a full list of the sources used in this episode,
please check the show notes. Make sure to follow, rate,
and review The Last Resort on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Stitcher,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening.
(31:10):
Roll the Wars. We do when we won. I wrote
the Wars. Yeah,
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.