The Voice of the Operatic Angel Blue

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to The Laverne Cox Show, a production of Shondaland
Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
I felt like I was juggling stuff, just things that
needed to be juggled and it needed to stay in
my life. And then there were things that I didn't
need to juggle, that didn't need to be in my life.
But at you know, at twenty two, twenty three, twenty
four years old, it's hard to figure that out and
you're grieving.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
That's hard.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Welcome to the Laverne Cox Show. My name is Laverne Cox.
I love a diva. What can I say? Diva worship
is a huge part of my life. I don't know
what that's about. It started early and I I just

(01:01):
can't quit a diva. And the quintessential diva for me
is the operatic diva, specifically the soprano. And I'm so
excited that I get to have a conversation with one
of the world leading operatic sopranos, Angel Blue. And you know,

(01:25):
Angel is a diva, but she's not a diva in
any way that would sort of be pejorative about a diva.
She's a diva because she's the prima donna of the
opera world because she sings lead roles in opera houses
all over the world. But she's one of the sweetest
people I've probably ever met. She's so humble and she's

(01:47):
so just kind. And in twenty nineteen, she opened the
Metropolitan Opera's season I'm Saying Best to a title role
in George Gershwin's Porgy invest And I got to go
to the dinner after the premiere of the opera and
I met Angel for the first time, and she just

(02:09):
gave me a really big hug, and we've been friends
ever since. I just want to chat with her about
her career, about life, about singing, and we do it
anyway privately, so I thought, why not do it in
public for all of you. So here we go. Angel
Joy Blue is a two time Grammy Award winning operatic

(02:31):
soprano who has performed in over forty countries with the
world's most esteemed orchestras and conductors. She's sung many of
the most iconic roles in opera, like Violetta in La
Traviata and the title roles in Tosca and Aita. This season,
she'll be debuting the role of Leonora and Verti's Ilchovatore
at the San Francisco Opera. Angel opened the Metropolitan Opera's

(02:53):
twenty nineteen twenty twenty season a new production of Porgy Invests.
She also opened the Mets twenty twenty season with a
new opera Fire Shut.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
Up in My Bones.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Angel Blue was originally a California girl and completed her
musical studies at UCLA. But now when she's not performing
all over the world, she lives in New Jersey with
her husband and son. Please enjoy my conversation with Angel Blue.
That's my dad that you see back there, and also

(03:27):
see a Lantine Prize poster.

Speaker 4 (03:28):
I'm trying to think of that photo.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
I'm trying to think of where that photo is from
Lantine Price in the next seventies?

Speaker 4 (03:33):
Price is that? Is that an opera news cover? What
is that? Just price?

Speaker 3 (03:38):
That's from her Carnegie Hall recital, I believe, and that.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Was what did her Carnegie Hall debut in sixty five.
It's the sixties. Now that looks more like seven.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
That's that's the that's in the seventies. But I don't
actually know.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
I had to look.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
There's another picture of her underneath that, and and it
covers up the date. But next to her is Grace Bumbry.
These are my wall of my favorites. You can't see
this side this. I have the old met here, I
have pictures of my the new opera singers of today.
But then I have my dad. Of course, my dad's
all over this wall. And then my voice teacher Vladimir
turn off. He's up a little bit higher. You can't

(04:15):
see him. I'm gonna try to.

Speaker 3 (04:17):
Let's see if I can move you.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, there's Vladimir. And then I have Maria Collis. Where
is she? She's here? And this is at the top
is I got that from La Scala. That's where it
says La Traviata. The first name says Angel Blue, and
I was like, oh, I have to have one of those.
I also have a really big one, ye, but I don't.
I don't know where to put it yet. It's kind
of weird to put up posters, so I haven't. I

(04:39):
haven't done that yet.

Speaker 4 (04:40):
It's not in my apartment.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
In my La apartment, I have like almost every magazine
cover I've been on posters. They're hir La apartment. They're everywhere.
Oh yes, it's a mess anyway, Hello, Angel Joy Blue,
Welcome to the podcast. How are you feeling today?

Speaker 3 (04:56):
Oh, I'm so.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Happy to be here with you. You know, I adore you,
so thank you for inviting me to be here with
you and.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
Share this time.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
I adore you as well.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
I love that we just got started talking about like
your opera inspiration and all the divas that you and
I both love, and you just mentioned Lascala and I
just God, le Scala. I mean, it's just it's one
of those things if you're an opera fan. For those
people who aren't opera fans, Lascala is kind of the

(05:25):
temple of opera. I mean, the med is incredible, but
if you know opera, the Lascala Opera House is one
of the temples of opera.

Speaker 4 (05:34):
And you've sung there many times.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
And you are the first black woman to sing Violetta
at Lascala, the first black woman to sing Violetta in
La Traviata at the Metropolitan Opera.

Speaker 4 (05:44):
And I believe it cover of Garden as well. Am
I correct?

Speaker 3 (05:46):
I think so?

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yes? And your voice teacher when you were twenty years
old said to you when you shared it that you
wanted to sing Violetta and Traviata, that there would never
be a black traviata. I saw that quote, and I
do you know why your voice teacher said there would
never be a black luchrabiata.

Speaker 4 (06:03):
What do you think that's about.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
I think it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Actually my voice teacher was a voice coach, but I mean,
I think at the time it was just it was
more of me and how I was as a singer.
At the time, I was young, and it was really
hard for me to learn music. It was really hard
for me to understand the Italian and to understand phrasing
and all of those sort of simple things, you know,
the basics of opera. Also, I believe it that it

(06:26):
was said to me because at the time I was
doing beauty pageants and my talent song was opera. People
might not like that I call simply libra a great
aria a song, but essentially that's what it is. And
so my talent song was simple and libera, and at
the time I was singing it all of the time,
and I wanted to sing that somewhere anywhere, you know,
and my big dream was to sing it at Las Gala.

(06:49):
So I was told, you know, that's a big dream, Angel,
have a little more achievable dream. And I think it
was just mainly said because it hadn't been done before.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
But what if the race piece? What's confusing to me
is the black boleta? Why the black part? I mean,
for any for any singer to aspire to sing at
les gala is a big deal, you know, And if
anything you're saying traviata is a big deal. It's very difficult.
But why the black piece.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
I don't know. I would probably, I think because it
hadn't happened. Honestly.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
I think it's just it was just probably the time.
And and really why say the word black? Probably because
that's that was that's their own limitation. That was not mine, clearly,
you know, in my mind. And this man was wonderful
man behind me, my dad who's constantly pushing me. At
the time, my dad was alive, and he's just telling me,
you know, Angel, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going.

(07:42):
And and I've just lived that with that sentiment in
my heart.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
Black or not black, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
My My goal has always just been to sing opera,
and there's always these people that come in and try
to dismiss your dreams, or lessen what you want to do,
or make less of who you are, and I refuse,
I refuse to let that happen. You know, by God's grace,
I pray that God helps me with that, but I
refuse to let that happen.

Speaker 4 (08:10):
Amen.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
I wonder if there's something about Violetta being a cortesan,
But then you think about a Carmen or a Dali La,
who are you know, less respectable? So I really don't understand. Yeah,
I don't get it. But how wonderful can you take
us back to you had already sung at les Cale,
if I recall if you were a last minute replacement,
if you had a few weeks to prepare. You had

(08:33):
just debut the role at Covit Garden, And can you
take us back to preparing getting the call?

Speaker 4 (08:39):
It was historic? What was going on for you?

Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yes, well, you know our words are powerful.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
We've talked about this and you've been a really big
supporter of mine.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
And I have to speak the right things. I know that.
You know.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
I'm learning that as I get older, and I'm seeing it.
I made my debut at Covent Garden in January of
twenty nineteen, and I had just sung the opera and
I went to my room and I was just sitting
there and it was kind of contemplating the evening, and
out of nowhere, I kind of looked up and I said, Lord,

(09:12):
if you had it for me to sing this at Lascala,
I would, And I just thought, if it came to it,
you know, I was like, Wow, you're prepared. You're really
prepared for this role. But three years prior to that,
I had been telling people, my close friends. I had
been saying things like my dream was to sing La
Traviata at teatra A, Lascala and Milan. So I went

(09:34):
home after I sang at the Royal Opera House, and
you know, my husband and I were getting ready to
go to Napa, California. At the time, I lived in California,
and we were getting ready to drive up to Napa.
I was going to sing at Festival del Sole. And
I woke up. My manager texted me and he said,
call me as soon as you get this. And I
called him and he said, Angel, would you like to

(09:55):
sing La Traviata at Lascala? And I said, yeah, yeah,
of course, you know, an opera they schedule things years
and years in advance. I'm thinking, okay, it's going to
be in like twenty twenty five, and I.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
Said when is it?

Speaker 2 (10:10):
And he goes, next week and I said next week
and he said, yeah, next week, and so I said.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
You've got to be kidding me.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
He goes, no, honey, it's next week, and I said okay,
and he said, you can go to Festival del Sole
and then you're going to have to pack and you go,
and oh, Laverne, I was ready.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
Oh thank god.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
I was ready, because, like, you know, when you get
an opportunity like that, and if you're not ready, that's
just a like it feels devastating, you know. But I
was so thankful at that time that I was ready,
and I was. My husband was excited, and I looked
at him and I said, I'm going to go to Italy.

Speaker 3 (10:44):
And he was like, go go, this is awesome, this
is great, you know.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
He was thrilled, and of course my mom, my family,
everybody was.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
And I'm just I'm.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Thankful that out of all of the opera singers, because
we know there's so many, out of all of the sopranos,
out of all the people that they could have asked
to come, you know, sopranos right there in Milan, right
there and around the city, or just on a train
ride to Milan. You know, they asked me to get
on a plane all the way in la and come
over and sing. And I will forever be grateful and

(11:15):
so thankful for that moment forever.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
So you get there and you're singing with Placid Domingo,
who you won his competition and had worked with him before.
Talk to us about just getting there in the rehearsal process.
So you have a week. So what was it like
once you arrived?

Speaker 2 (11:33):
It was amazing. I had been to Milan before several
times before. I actually did a tour of Italy when
I was twenty six years old, so I've been all
over the country. I understand the culture very well. I
guess I could say I was immersed in the culture
when I was younger, and I felt like a rock
star truly, because the people in the city of Milan,

(11:56):
just the vicinity of the opera house is this gorgeous
place called the Walmot, this big church and all of
the restaurants and the people they knew that I was
coming to sing, so I'm walking down the street and
the people in the restaurant are like, they don't call
me angel they call me Angela.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
And so they're like.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
Angela, Angela, to to to doi Angela. And I'm like, what,
you know, who are these strangers saying toy toy toy
to me?

Speaker 3 (12:25):
And I'm saying, you know, gratia, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
Oh yes, toy to toys like it's break a leg
or good luck, it's good luck.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
For yes, good luck for opera singers.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
And I went to this restaurant, and I think this
is what really kind of hit me the hardest, was
that I went to this gorgeous restaurant. I had this
delicious lasagna, and the gentleman who brought me my food
looks at me and he says, you are the first
black traviata. And I said, am I, And I mean

(12:56):
I didn't know, Hello, No, do you like the food?
Do you want anything else? None of That's what he
said to me, and in English too, and and I said, oh,
I said, am I. And he said you will be perfect, perfect,
and if you're hungry, come here, and I said, okay.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
He said, we want to make sure that you do
a very very very good job.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
And I just that that just made me feel you know,
I think that was a beautiful just a wonderful experience,
a wonderful moment.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
But so beautiful about that moment is that there's a
city that is that immersed in opera, that that they're
so excited, absolutely, and and that he knows it's this
a random person coming up to you and telling you
that you're making history. Yes, there's something so beautiful about that.
And I love that we have some video of the moment.
There's some wonderful video with you and Domingo that's online.

(13:43):
And David Carlin of boch Track wrote of your co
Garden debut in Traviata Blues voice his complete security of pitch,
a warm bath of a timber, and a lovely sense
of lilt and shape to the phrases. She also has
the ability to make you utterly believe in what you're seeing.

(14:03):
In the deathbed scene, I don't think I've ever seen
a more convincing interpretation of a woman who is desperate
to summon up strength but is simply incapable of standing straight.
Her interpretation of the end with Violetta's last false hope,
flaring brightly before fizzling to nothing with spellbinding, and she

(14:23):
excelled in pure vocal terms with a strong delivery of
the big aria, sempre libra and adir de pasto.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
I love.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
I mean, reviews are sort of whatever, But what I
love about that review is that I had the pleasure
of seeing you seeing Traviata at the Met when you
made your role debut there earlier this year. I got
to be in the audience and I felt, I mean,
I guess it's my favorite opera and it just it's
I'm always deeply moved by it. But that scene, the

(14:54):
adio scene, that scene was so I just don't even
have war it's forty. It was just so moving and
the acting. Actually, I have a little recorded when you

(15:20):
hear that, When you hear that, what comes up for you?
This role that is meant so much to you that
you aspired to saying that you've made history to saying
I guess I just.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Think that it's true. You know, she calls herself a
fallen woman, and she asks God to help her to
have mercy on her and that moment, and you know
you said earlier, what's the difference between Carmen and Dalila
and Violetta. Dalila is she's kind of, you know, my opinion,

(15:55):
she's wicked. Carmen my opinion, she's wicked at their core
there there, it's a selfish kind of a thing.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
I would say.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Carmen's independent, Yes, she and Cavalier Dadila's Wickedrmon is independent
and it could be read as wicked for sure, because
she gives no abs.

Speaker 4 (16:16):
She's like Libra was born and free, I will die.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
She says that there's a defiance that Carmen has is wicked.

Speaker 4 (16:26):
But with the Violetta, you say, the difference for you, I.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
Think is that she's a self sacrificing woman. She's a
woman who's willing to put her needs, her desires, what
she wants aside for other people. And I think what
she said is very true. I would call Carmen defiant.
That's a better word than wicked. Is that she is
definitely defiant, going to do what she wants to do.
But I think that's interesting because they are all this

(16:52):
sort of courtisan kind of a thing. But but with Violetta,
I think in her heart, at the core of her
of her person, she's someone who deeply cares about other.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
People and wants to be loved and wants to be loved,
and it is indeed in love in a really beautiful way.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
Absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
And she the way she dies too, is very different
than a carman.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
And she she has the opportunity to have her whole
family around her, you know, her, the people who care
about her the most when she's dying. I suppose all
of that just kind of you know, when I am interviewed,
I talk about my dad a lot, and you know,
I've spoken to you a lot about him. And when
my father passed away, all of us were there. We're
five children, and we were all around the hospital bed
and my mom was standing there at the head of

(17:36):
the bed, you know, looking over my dad. And that's
the you know, if you're gonna go, that's a beautiful
way to do it with the people that you love
the most around you. That's the beautiful thing about La
Traviata to me is that in the end, she really
does she gets what she wants before she goes to heaven,
I believe.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
And that's all that love.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
For those who don't know, Angel's father was a minister
and her first boy teacher. He started training you when
you were six years old, I believe. Do you want
to say a little bit of your father?

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, he was just a like you. He's from Alabama.
How do you not like him? You know Bama people.
And as you said, he was a minister. He was
a pastor for gosh, I want to say that. My
parents minister for like thirty five thirty six years. And
he was a classically trained singer. So my dad, when
he was younger, they moved to Cleveland, Ohio, and he

(18:21):
went to the Cleveland Conservatory of Music, and he studied voice.
He sang under James Levine and the chorus. And you know,
he loved opera. And what's great is it's kind of
a generational thing. So my grandfather, Grandpa James, he liked
Enrico Caruso. Don't ask me why a coal miner from
Alabama likes Enrico Caruso, but he did. And he was

(18:41):
in a barbershop quartet, and so then of course my
dad picks that up. He falls in love with like
uc Burling and Luciano Pavarotti and of course Placido Domingo,
and that was a very crazy connection for me. Because
I ended up singing with my show Domingo for years,
you know, and he became my mentor. And that was
so strange because when my father passed away, it was

(19:02):
about I think two months to the date that I
met my shro Domingo, and it was.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
Just very, very wild, you know.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
It was amazing actually, because my dad kept saying, when
you sing for Domingo, he's gonna love you and he's
gonna help you, you know, and that he did. But
my father was just someone who really loved opera and
it brought him a lot of joy.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
You should have seen.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
He had the biggest smile and he would listen to
like he would listen to like Polyacchi.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
Polyachi is the clown.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
The opera is the clown, and this man is he's
lamenting in this aria. And my dad would have that
on so loud in the kitchen, I mean loud, but
he was joyful and he'd be smiling and all of that.
That's that's one of the main reasons why I sing,
because opera brings me joy, you know. So that's that's
a tiny tiny bit about my dad. He was an
amazing man. I'm very honored. I will always be honored

(19:51):
to be his.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Daughter, and singing is a connection to your father as well.
I was just thinking about how and I got very
emotional thinking about your father passing and then facilitating in heaven,
facilitating that meeting with Domino, facilitating.

Speaker 4 (20:05):
Yes, so many things.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
The gift for me of the people who have passed
in my life that I feel like they've become my angels.

Speaker 4 (20:12):
I really do. I keep very emotional with because I
have a lot of angels.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
Oh my goodness. So he's clearly I mean, yes, las Gala,
all the things, all the things.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
You know, he's your angel.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
You want to know something weird.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yes, I don't normally talk about this, but since she
said that you said angels and then you said las Gala,
this might sound weird, but this happened to me.

Speaker 3 (20:34):
After rehearsal.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
I was we were doing Act two and I was
rehearsing with my Sto Domingo and the scene between the
character Violetta and her boyfriend's dad Germont, and we rehearsed it,
and I went and I grabbed some water in my
bottle before I went back to the hotel. And as
I'm filling up this water bottle, I had the strongest,

(20:56):
strongest sensation that my dad was standing behind me with
big smile, and it was so real that when I.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
Was like, wait, is he there?

Speaker 2 (21:05):
And I turned almost like, you know, did Dad just
skip off to Italy and not tell us there's something?
And I turned around and of course he wasn't standing there,
but it was like his presence was there. It was
just it was like the Lord was letting me know
that my dad can see what I'm doing. You know,
he could see that. I guess he always told me
that I would sing. He always said that. You know,
it's a blessing when you have a family member or

(21:27):
anybody in your life, a coach, somebody who really encourages
you like that and is constantly letting you know when
you don't feel like you can sing, or when you
don't feel like you're good at what you do, or hey,
there's no hope here, it's wonderful to have that person
who's like, no, you're doing the right thing. You just
keep like I said before, you keep going, You keep going,
you keep going. He's an angel. You'll win if you
don't quit. My dad used to always say that to me,

(21:49):
and I do in my own way. I feel like
I've won, you know, and he's over my shoulder now,
But he really is, you know, he really has been
such a driving force and a huge blessing to me
in this opera career. And when I was getting that
water at Lascala, I took that to mean that he
could see me there.

Speaker 4 (22:07):
Oh yeah, Oh that's so beautiful.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
We'll be right back. Alrighty, we're back. I remember seeing
an interview that you did, and I remember when you
were at UCLA and.

Speaker 4 (22:30):
Some of the struggles you had there.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
And I don't know if you want to talk about that,
because I think, you know, you said you were having
trouble learning music and what was that about?

Speaker 4 (22:37):
And has that shifted for you? Is it easier to
learn music now?

Speaker 2 (22:40):
First, I want to say thank you for the question,
because I think sometimes maybe now opera singers are more
open to talking about their struggles in music. I'm very
thankful that my parents gave me piano lessons when I
was little. My mom taught me first, and then I
had a piano teachers, very similar to how I study voice.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
I play several instruments.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
I play the badly, I play the alto saxophone, but
I still pull it out every now and again. I
have my bass guitar right here, So I'm a musician
for sure. But Opera presented the problem of learning quickly.
How do you learn fast and efficiently? And so right
now I'm working on Il Trovatore. That's the next thing

(23:21):
I have coming up, and I'm gonna show you.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
And you haven't sung Chrouvatori yet. You were supposed to
debut trovatory if I recall, during the pandemic and at
La Opera, and obviously the pandemic happened, and so where
are you singing Trovatore in the fall?

Speaker 3 (23:35):
I think San Francisco Operas in September.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
So I'm just going to show you, so basically, with
the music, what really has helped me. And this is
gonna this is I'm just being totally real right now.
This is like my diary, but with the music, I'm
gonna put it here if you can see it, like
you see those you see those big lines, right, so
those lines are my saving grace, These vertical lines going
up and down, and those are just.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
The big beats.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
That was the hardest, which is weird because I play
the bass, so I of course, understand the rhythm, you know,
But that was the hardest thing for me, was to understand.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
Rhythmically just how things work.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
When I started getting better at Italian, then I understood
that the rhythm was inspired by the words, by the text.
And when I understood that the music was inspired by
the text, the text inspires the acting, the drama essentially,

(24:37):
and sometimes the dramas really heavily in the orchestra. Sometimes
the dramas it's always going to be in the text,
but most of the time it's in the rhythm.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
All of those things just kind.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
Of came to me, but I didn't really understand that
when I was, you know, twenty twenty one years old
at UCLA, and I had an interesting time because I
was doing I was my father passed away, and when
my dad passed away, I dropped out of the opera

(25:07):
at UCLA. At the same time, though I was an
intern at La Opera for the Young Artist Program, I
was also doing Miss California at the time. That was
my last year at Miss California. Was just a ton
of things going on musically. I felt lost because I
felt like there were you know, opera is filled with

(25:29):
many facets there's just they're sorry, there's so much to it,
and I just having all of these I felt like
I was juggling stuff just in things that needed to
be juggled and it needed to stay in my life.
And then there were things that I didn't need to juggle,
that didn't need to be in my life. But at
you know, at twenty two, twenty three, twenty four years old,

(25:52):
it's hard to figure that out and you're grieving. That's hard.
So that really when I talk about this ruggle, the
struggle for me was the struggle of how do I
learn this quickly? You know, singing is I would say,
it's like being an athlete because the thing has to
be in your body when you get on stage. You
don't want to be thinking, oh wait, what's the next note,
Oh wait, what's that word? Oh no, you want to

(26:14):
be on autopilot and just be able to go. So
all of these things were just kind of going on
at that time. And you know, I'm well past twenty
four years old now and I still look at that
time and I think, wow.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
How did you get through that?

Speaker 4 (26:28):
How did you get through.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
I mean, I honestly I think my for sure, my
faith one hundred percent. My faith and my family helped
me a lot. You know, I had my mom, I'm
I'm number four or five, and everything was keep going,
keep going, keep going. Well, remember Dad said, Remember Dad
used to say, there was one point.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
I know that people can't see me. But at one
point I started breathing with my shoulders, and so I
was taking breaths and lifting up my shoulders and my sister.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
My sister said, ain't to remember Dad. I said, you see,
you need to be relaxed. And I had to remember
those things. I had to just remember. I guess my
roots and what they were. But also, you know, I
will tell you this. I know that God gave me
the talent that I have for a reason, and I
know that he said He'll never leave me or forsake me.
And even in those moments where I feel like I'm
alone or like I'm forsook, I'm not, and I have

(27:21):
to remember that. I think, you know, it was important
to try to just keep going, and as hard as
that was, I did.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
And then I had the opportunity also to go to Europe.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
By that point, I was twenty six, and that really
helped me a lot, because I saw a different, completely
different side of opera from the European perspective. And I
believe with all my heart that Europe gave me my career.
The career that I have today, I have because I
went to Spain, because I went to Italy. I spent
all those years in Germany. Still don't speak very good German,

(27:55):
but I've spent so much time there in Austria and
all of those places, learning, you know, And thankfully I
still can say that I still travel to those places,
still learning, you know, still trying to keep going, keep going,
keep going, keep going.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Wonderful, amazing, Oh gosh, I love, love love this. So
you recently made your debut as Aida, the Ethiopian Princess
at Covin Garden.

Speaker 4 (28:21):
How did it feel?

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Ada is one of those tricky opera It's because it's
very for those people don't know opera. It's there's very
legato singing that's required, and then there's very dramatic singing
that is required. So how was it singing Ada?

Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (28:41):
Honestly, three words. It is hard. You know, it's hard.
It's not an easy role. It's just it's not And
I think what makes it so hard is that it's
so it's weird because there's not a lot of music,
it's not a lot of singing.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
It's the title character.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
So with the title character, that comes a lot of
pressure just period, just psychologically, just thinking the opera's called Ada,
I'm singing Aida, you know, just whatever that means in
your mind. So there's that whole sort of obstacle first,
and then after that there's all of the things that follow. Musically,
I think of everything as just being lyric. I try

(29:20):
not to think, oh, this is the strongest part of
the opera and I have to give it all.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
I try to just be as lyrical as possible. And
I think a lot of that comes with what the
composer is asking the singer to do. You know, don't
do something the composer doesn't say to do, and go
with what the conductor is doing. I'm not a singer
who tries to out sing the orchestra or do something
different than the orchestra is doing.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
That's weird, you know. I want to be with them
because we're an ensemble.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
So I mean with that, I have to say my
favorite part of Ada was the hardest part was Act three.
Act three is wild, so you start out with this
O paty Amiya al patrey Ama is my homeland. She's
talking about where she's from and and how she misses it.
She describes where she's from, she says, you know, these
the fresh valleys and the.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
Rolling hills, and she misses it.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
And then she has to sing this beautiful hopefully piano
high sea. Yeah, and and then and how do you
how do you explain a high sea? I don't know
how to explain a high seat.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
It's a it's a really high note. It's a you know,
for a soprano. It's one of those money notes for
a soprano that you gotta you gotta have a high sea,
you know, right, Yeah, it's a it's a really high note.

Speaker 4 (30:35):
I'm trying to think.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
Oh, for Beyonce fans, Beyonce in Emotions with Destiny's Child,
that note Beyonce hit in her head voice is a high.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
High see that's right? Well well, well, yes, yes, that's right.

Speaker 4 (30:48):
That's a high seat.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
And it's not easy to sing a high see.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
It's it's it's easy if you're just shouting it out,
you know, if it's like a loud high sea.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
But it's the phrase in O Patriamia. It's the climb
up to the sea. It's something I do. It's just
as an exercise.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yes, and it's a very good exercise.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
And every I think the thing that's probably I would
say scary about it is just that everybody knows it's coming.
And you know, for myself, I enjoyed it because that
aria for me, where it sits in my voice is
an easier place for me to sing. So I was
okay with it. You know, I'm not going to say
that I landed the high seat perfectly every single time

(31:26):
I sang it, but I definitely felt more comfortable in
that section than I did in the section that follows it.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
After the duet with her dad.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
So her her dad comes in in act three after
she sings this beautiful Aria and basically tells her off
because she is in love with the enemy.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
She's in love with.

Speaker 4 (31:45):
The enemy as it is a mess.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
And her dad comes in and he's getting on her
and telling her that you know you're not my daughter,
You're the slave of the pharaohs, is what he says
to her. Then after that they reconcile by her saying, Okay,
you know, I'll do this for my country, basic spy
on radom as yes, to find out where the enemy's
army will be going. And then the next thing that
happens is her boyfriend comes in and that whole part

(32:13):
is very dramatic, but it's low. It's all low in
the sopranos voice. So in that moment, I thought, you're
just talking, You're just speaking, don't try to be super loud.
And I we had a great conductor. His name is
Sir Mark Elder, and you know, he was very sensitive
to the fact that that's not the strongest part of
my voice. Of most sopranos, that's not the strongest part

(32:35):
of their voice. And he's like, don't worry, don't worry,
you can you can still be heard. So I don't
know my experience with Aida. It's hard, but it was
definitely a challenge I welcomed. I look forward to singing
it again. I don't believe I have it in my
schedule until I want to say, twenty twenty four, twenty yeah,
twenty four next year.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
The end of next year, okay, And so I'm looking
forward to it.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
But it's you know, it's it's totally different than ltraviata,
and it's totally different than if I had to put them.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
You did not ask me this. I'm just this is.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Just me thinking verity because I've been reading this book
on him, and I knew he was amazing, but I
didn't know how amazing until I started singing all of
this music. Yeah, I would say Traviata's first is second,
and then Aida is third.

Speaker 4 (33:21):
For me in terms of your favorites.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
I think, so yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Also, you know, I you know, you have you go
through the evening being called names and stuff, and you know,
having this crazy duet with I'm nerst.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
That's not easy either.

Speaker 4 (33:32):
Oh damn oh the judgment girl.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Is because I'm nerss but the people for the people
who don't know it and Radames are officially together. Yes,
so Radam is it's cheating right on, I'm near neres
with you with Aida. Yes, So she's confronting her and
she's like, girl, yes, why you with my man? And
you're you know, you're supposed to be my servant, my slave.

(33:57):
But Aita says she's never slave, always a friend, says
she never bow damn nears.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
Do you see those clips of Price?

Speaker 2 (34:03):
If you see those clips of Price, there's there's a
video of her with Simon Esti's I believe it's from
the met I think it's her last Aida in nineteen
eighty two.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yes, eighty five, it was her last Ada eighty five.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
And he what is his name, the dad Amanaziro, father
of Aida. He pushes her and she goes clear to
the ground, clear to the ground, and then she does
this thing where she looks up and she puts her
hands up and I was like, wow, that's nice. You
know that is her father and he is the only
one who has that kind of control and and say.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
So over her.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
There's this beautiful story that Simon Estis tells when they
sang for the first time together in San Francisco, where
she just she was like, there's a black king. She
was still I think it was it was Aida, I think,
and she and he was playing her father. I think
it's the late seventies. She was just so excited. Yeah,
there was a black man, you know, because you know
they're black men and operate. It's been it's been a struggle,

(34:57):
a different kind of struggle than for black women. And
she told him it can be harder for you than
it was for me. Anyway, Liantin stories. I could go
on with Lintin stories for the rest of.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
The I know you love her.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
You are a two time Grammy Award winning opera singer
for your recordings of Porgy and Best and Fire, Shut
Up in my Bones, congratulations. You also opened two different
seasons of the Metropolitan Opera in those operas, and I
remember we had dinner and I was just like, girl,
you're opening the met singing Best.

Speaker 4 (35:29):
Do you feel like that, bitch?

Speaker 3 (35:30):
No?

Speaker 1 (35:32):
And you're so humble, You're so humble, But I'm a
girl like girl, You're opening the Met like you were Best,
and you're opening the season and you've done it twice
now and one two Grammys. Can you talk a little
bit about I mean, obviously Best and Fire are two
very different operas when it's twenty first century, when it's
twentieth century, very different roles. Can you talk a little
bit about the difference between singing those and if you

(35:54):
want to tell your Grammy experience and.

Speaker 4 (36:00):
Why are you laughing? Why are you laving?

Speaker 3 (36:03):
I don't know. I'm laughing because I feel like.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
I feel like saying that I have two Grammys is crazy,
But I know that I know that They're not a
result of me, just me. You know, when I was
talking about Aita, I mentioned that me and the orchestra,
the conductor were all and ensemble. And when I think
of Porgy and Bess and Fire, shut up in my bones.

(36:28):
I don't know that I've ever been in an opera
where the cast, everybody, everybody involved was just it felt
like one hundred percent on board. So when you say
two time Grammy winner, and I just think, you know,
I'm really thankful that I was a part of that.
I'm really thankful that I got to be in those
casts with those amazing artists, with that orchestra, the med

(36:50):
orchestra is.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
Just they're on another level. You know. I just went
on thank God, I just went on.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Tour with them and working with Uniquenesce again, David Robertson
and James Robinson as the director. It was just really great.
I mean, I don't know, you do I feel like
that that girl. No, I feel like that girl who
has a whole bunch of books in her hand and
she's like, I gotta go study, I gotta go work
on this.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
I gotta go.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
I'll see you okay dinner tonight. Okay, great, I'm gonna
try to be finished by okay. Oh that's how I feel,
because I think that I heard Renee Fleming say that
she was asked, does the pressure go away as you
get higher and higher in your job or you you know,
you grow more and more in your career. Does the
pressure go away? Is there every time where you feel like, okay,

(37:34):
I've arrived? And she said no, she said, if anything,
it gets worse because you're constantly working to stay on
a certain level and to maintain what you've done.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
Yeah, it actually does.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
It gets harder. I feel it gets harder too, And I,
you know, it's so funny. I just did a show
in Savannah. I was shooting a show and I was
starring in it and producing it and co created it
and it was part of my personal story and it
was so I was I was like, I gotta go
home and go to sleep, and I got a prep
for the next day, and it's just such like it's

(38:09):
just so much work, That's what it is. So I
feel you So it's like, now I gotta go study, yeah,
and singing opera, you know, I do a little chirping
here and there, and it's so I did a recording
session in December of some arias and acoustic whatever and
in some beautiful gowns. I don't know if you know
they're reading frankmen quote beautiful gowns. And that's what I
would say about my unvocal per formance back in December,

(38:31):
beautiful gowns, and so I literally wanted to I went
to re record some of them yesterday, and we'll see
if it's better.

Speaker 4 (38:42):
It's just it never stops being hard.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
So I love that you say when you think about
those experiences, you think about all the people and the support,
and that it is a group effort and that it
is an ensemble, because that's my experience too, you know,
the sag Wards or the Emmy I have that. You know,
it's something that I share with colleague.

Speaker 4 (39:03):
Okay, it's that time again.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
We'll be right back. We're back. You know you're working

(39:25):
on chu Vittore and we've heard a little bit of
your TROUVATORI when you were doing still on social media
and you did a virtual concert. You sang a note
in your basement, I think, and you also say have
sung that I'm aware of twice dal More.

Speaker 4 (39:42):
I never say that, right.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Rose, you sang it in Philadelphia, and you sang it
at the met New Year's Eve.

Speaker 4 (39:55):
I love you and that music, and it.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Was it was so good. The Philadelphia one was like,
you really killed it.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
I was talking to my voice teacher about Trovatore. It's
written in such a beautiful way, and Ira says that
it's really Verity's last sort of beil canto opera. There
were different periods and Artie's life in terms of how
it evolved, and there's something that so makes so much
sense about the way that Trovatore is written that is wonderful.
Can you talk about the differences between Ada and Traviata

(40:46):
and what you're finding is you prepare to sing Leonora.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
Well Ada and Aida was written.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
I believe it's twenty years after La Traviata, And so
if you think just in terms of us as you know,
how I was when I was twenty versus twenty years later.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
Yeah, very different person. Some of the.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
Ideas in my head are still the same, you know,
I believe my heart's still the same, but I'm much
more organized, but a different person, you know. I even
I approach music differently. I'm married, you know, I approach
having a relationship differently. The biggest difference I would say
in the music for me, as I would call myself
a new bi Veriti in soprano.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
I just made that up right now. And I say
that because there are people who have been singing Verity
for you know.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
To that twenty years, that thirty years, and their take
on it will be vastly different than mine. As someone
who loves La Traviata, not just singing it, but just
loves the opera, I would say that I'm more in
touch with the Liltrovatore at the moment, probably because it
was written at the same around the same time I
think it was La Traviata Rigoletto, and also that Verdi

(41:54):
wrote is kind of considered his trilogy.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
And then, of course, you know, years later he has
this Aida.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
But I find what's fascinating about it is that the
youthfulness I feel of Leonora and Violetta is I feel,
my own opinion is that it's really embodied in where
he writes the music for the soprano versus ada. Even
though she's supposed to be a young princess, it's more

(42:24):
for a mature woman, you know, and I consider myself
a mature woman for sure. But I mean for me,
you know, Laverne, I said this when we were having
dinner a few months back. I approach music, all of
it the same way, all of it.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
You know.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
I want to try to sing it as best as
I can and just let that be. Let that be
it for me. I'm not trying to copy anybody. I mean,
I listened to a ton of sopranos. I listened to
sopranos today who sing the same repertoire that I do.
Because I'm trying to learn. You know, we're all singing
the same music. But what's great about it is that

(42:59):
we're bringing You know, you said that you were in
Savannah shooting talking about your story that's unique to you.
And when you take your story and you put your
story into verity from eighteen fifty three, I take Angel
Blue from Apple Valley, California, who went to school two
hours away from her house in La in East LA
and then had to.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
Go back on metrolink.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
When I put all of that into La traviata, into iltrovatore,
into Aida, then that's my Aida, that's my trot, that's
my traviata.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
Because that's my story, you know.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
And and I don't know if I'm answering the question,
but for sure those facets that that is essential to singing,
is bringing who you are into the music. I'm not
trying to be Lantine Price. I have the utmost respect
for her. I have the utmost respect for Miss Grace.
I mean miss Grace. I had the ability to call
Miss Grace on the phone a legend and ask her questions. Sorry, yes,

(43:57):
Grace Bumbreak. And I could call her and ask her.
And I said to her, I said, should I be singing? Aida? I,
you know, be honest with me to trust me. She
was honest with me too, She said she was honest
with me, you know. And she she said, of course
you should. Well why not, you know? And and I said, well,
you know, I haven't done the other the other verity.
She said, there's no recipe for this thing.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
There really isn't a recipe. So you got to coach
with Miss Brumbery, yes, on some of AITA before she passed,
and you did not get to.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
No, no, we didn't get to coach. I was going
to go see her in Vienna, but it didn't It
didn't work out with my with my schedule and with
hers good grief. I mean, she was busy, but you know,
I I cherished those moments of just being able to
talk to her about opera in any way, but not.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
Not just opera. You know. We had a bit of
a chat about.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Life too, and actually she she you know, she's actually
one of the first people when I said to her
that I feel like I have to have social media,
and she goes, but why she always had this grandmother
thing with me, which I but she was just really
a lovely woman. I mean, whenever I saw her, I
just kind of always felt like I just needed to
say thank you, you know, just thank you, thank you

(45:09):
so much for the excellence that you showed. I mean,
what a great name for her to grace for such
a time as that, you know, for the time that
she lived in, To be able to have grace, to
be able to move through the world elegantly, at a
time when people didn't want to see you, didn't want
you to have a place, absolutely, but boy did she

(45:31):
have a place, and boy did she still have one.

Speaker 4 (45:34):
For the listeners.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
What Angels referring to is that in the nineteen fifties
and sixties for black opera singers, it was very difficult.
There were a space that had been created by Marian
Anderson and Liantine Price, but it was still very difficult.
And Lantine would never speak of the difficulties others would,
which I found really interesting.

Speaker 4 (45:52):
Grace did a little bit.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
You know, there was just a lot of racism all
over Europe and the United States that they dealt with,
and every single one of these singers from that generation.
When you hear Shirley Vouett speaker, Grace Bumbry or Martina
Arroyo or miss Price or Mary Ninson, all of them
talk about faith.

Speaker 4 (46:09):
All of them talk about faith. And I because I
think about.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
You know, how does one with Liliantine, for example, in
nineteen fifty five, when she sang Tosca on NBC and
they were protests, people were protesting in BC. Can you imagine,
you know, you're singing the lead as you're singing Tosca
in English on TV, like it's you know, she's the
first really black person.

Speaker 4 (46:28):
To have any leading role on TV in nineteen fifty five.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
It's the early stages of television and people are protesting
an opera. They didn't air it in the South and
her home state didn't air it, you know, and she
whenever she talks about it, she says, all I was
focused on was had I rehearsed enough with my flexibility
where I needed it to be so I can make
the impact that I needed to make. I just when
I think about that, it just endlessly inspires me, because

(46:52):
it just she always talks about keeping first things first.
It's like that, it's all this she calls it fluttering
and noise, and it's you just have to focus on
first things first. And that is such an incredible lesson
for everyone. But then what a path you know that
was laid for you, specifically for opera singers, but I
take it as a path for me too as an artist,

(47:14):
as an actor and the other things that I do.
Speaking of, you know, these sorts of things. You made
headlines last year when you dropped out, and you can
say whatever you want to say about this, but I
know you haven't really talked about this since it's not
that I'm aware of publicly.

Speaker 4 (47:33):
And it was Rome.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
I think it was Arena Diva Arona and a natreb
Coo had sung I eat a in black face, and
that it's a tradition that his really existed in opera
for since I eat it his existence, since it's exception.
So Otelo and I Eat are often song If a
white singer sings those roles, historically they would wear a

(47:56):
black face. And you decided you were supposed to to
sing tabaata at the arena diparona, and when you saw
and found out that they were still doing blackface, you
decided to drop out. What would you like to say
about that decision? By a year later and it was
a moment. It got a lot of press, and you
also went off social media around the same time that

(48:18):
you withdrew.

Speaker 3 (48:19):
Yes, Well, you know.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
I feel like, first of all, I want to say
I love an A a Chrepco. I've always liked her.
I first heard her sing when I was about I
think I was a junior in college and she had
her album called Simply Libera And because I sang the
aria and pageants, my dad bought her CD for me
and I listened to it in my car all the time. So,

(48:43):
you know, I think the first thing I want to
say is that it should be known and hopefully most
people do know that I adore her.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
I adore her artistry, so.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
It wasn't about her. It wasn't about her.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
But I've never said that, you know, I've never and
I don't really know if there's anything to say about
my decision. You know, I'd still stand firmly on what
I said because I believe what I said. You know,
it wasn't I'm not somebody who I mean. I get
attention when I stand on stage to sing. Sometimes it's good,
sometimes it's bad. So it's not like I was saying

(49:15):
that to get attention or anything.

Speaker 4 (49:18):
What did you do? Can you? Can you remind the
audience what you said?

Speaker 2 (49:23):
Well, with some help from my publicist, I basically I
saw photos just to explain what happened. I was in
I was singing in Paris, so I'm an international opera singer,
so I sing all over the place, thankfully. And I
was singing at Paris Opera and I was in the
bed with my husband and we were looking at pictures.

(49:43):
I was scrolling on my phone and I got a
text message from a friend that said, have you seen
this photo? And it was initially a picture of a
dancer at Arena di Verona, which by the way, is
an amazing opera house, and I just want to say
what a privilege it is to be asked to sing there.
And I've been I've been contracted there twenty twenty, twenty

(50:05):
twenty one, and twenty twenty two, and you know, you
know they and they did ask me to come back
this year, but I wasn't able to because I had
previous engagements. But I was looking at this, at this photo,
and I thought, I said, well, what is this? And
my friend said this is this is their production of
aida at at Arena di Varona. And I said, oh really,
and then I said okay, I said, well, that's that's strange.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
I didn't know that that's weird.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
And then probably about a day or two later, then
I saw because I'm a fan, I'm a fan of
Natrupko's and I saw it on her page and I
also other people sent it to me. And you know,
all I can say, and you know, people can say
whatever they want to say. People will always say what
they want to say, and rightfully, so fine, you should

(50:52):
be able to you know, hopefully it's not something that
that's hurtful. But what I said after I saw the photos, sorry,
I'm all over the place. Leverne excuse me, what I want,
thank you. What I said was that what I saw
was blackface. To me, it was blackface. I understand people

(51:13):
are like, ah, but you know, there's it's just makeup,
it's theater. I had a good friend of mine, actually,
he said, angels, just theater.

Speaker 3 (51:19):
What are you doing?

Speaker 2 (51:20):
You know we wear makeup all the time. And I
said that I didn't agree with it. I didn't in
my heart. I didn't feel that. I didn't feel that
I could go and sing La Traviata to the best
of my ability, knowing that understanding where this, where the
makeup came from, what the tradition stood for. I don't

(51:43):
remember exactly what I said. I could probably find it
on my phone somewhere, but but to me, you know, Laverne,
we're talking about La Traviata, We're talking about Il Trovatore.
We've talked about Labohim. None of those characters are black.
And I know the audience can't see me, but I'm
a five foot eleven and a half basically six foot tall,
plus sized black woman, dark skinned black woman. I have

(52:04):
never been asked to change how I look to sing
a role. I've played characters who are Parisian and dying
of consumption. I know I don't look like I'm dying
of consumption, you know. And and if the audience has
enough imagination to believe that I can be me me,
or that I can be Violetta, then surely a great singer,

(52:24):
those great singers who come through Arena di Varona don't
necessarily need that makeup. That's how I feel. That was
just my heart, and I can understand. I totally understand
the opposite side of it, though. I understand, you know,
someone saying, no, well Angel, you know they're taking it
too seriously. That's not The blackface is totally different. You know,
the makeup doesn't look like that. But to me, in

(52:45):
my heart, it didn't need to be done. And that's
not a fault on anyone, really, It's just what I felt.
You know, you and I both we grew up in church.
We've talked about our moms in church and how they are.
And you told me that your mom will go in
to church and read people for film, and you know,

(53:06):
you know, and and we that's that's that's part of
our culture, that's part of who we are. There are
people who don't like church there are people who will
get mad because you grew up.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
In church, But what am I supposed to do change that?

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Because that's my heart, that's where I am, that's where
that's that's me. And you know, I got off of
social media because there was no reason to argue, There
was no whatever sparked that kind of conversation. I didn't
want to be a part of that because it was
there was some of it that was really ugly and
to miss Bumbry, that was very disrespectful and I wasn't

(53:38):
going to have any part of that.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
So what I will say to you is that what
was lovely on social media. I follow a number of
you know, opera singers and and people who are just
used to in the classical world. A lot of singers
appreciated you making the decision that you made not to
sing at a diva Vona. That there was a lot
of love and there was a lot of understanding, and

(54:04):
I think a lot of people didn't fully understand until
you've had that moment right that that I think you
in withdrawing, even though it was just a very personal
decision for you, that you brought more attention to that
the fact that this is still happening in opera, and
it's something that a lot of people do believe should
be reconsidered. I'm one of those people who thinks this
should be reconsidered. That we don't need the dog makeup

(54:27):
for Aida. I don't think we need to do that anymore.
So what was beautiful you know a year later, I
think you should hear is that. I think it part
of the conversation that happened. I think was necessary and
a very positive one because you made that decision. And
I know that's not necessarily what you intended. You were
just like you couldn't You couldn't thing there. You wouldn't

(54:50):
have been able to give your best. But there have
been positive things that have come out.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Of it, and you shs and I do want to
say the production they're doing this year doesn't have black face.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
You know.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
It was the decision, I believe, of the director who
decided not to go that route with it and to
change it, you know. And you know Opas Opera is
such a fun, make believe place, and I understand that
that makeup is part of the make believe. I have makeup,
ron right, I have fake eyelashes and all of this.
You know, I forgot the nails, but I got makeup on.

(55:21):
You know, my hair is straightened right now, and it's
not like you know, this is not how my husband
Adam sees me. He will not see me like this tonight.
I will look very different.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
And opera is I mean, there's people are singing, everything's
there's something kind of ridiculous and wonderful about opera that
I love.

Speaker 4 (55:39):
You know.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
I'm just thank you for asking me about specifically about that,
because I haven't. I've shied away from talking about it,
just because I don't want to have any arguments or
heavy discussions about things. I mean, I don't know. I
love you, Laverne, and I enjoy spending time with you. You're
a wonderful person. You've been ever since I met you

(56:01):
in twenty nineteen. You've just been such a blessing to me.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
You know. That's all I have to say. I don't.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
I mean, we can wrap on that if you wanted to,
but I just I love you so much.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
I love you too, Darling. I end the podcast with
the question what else is true? And it comes from
my therapy, my Tromber's therapy, and the idea of both
and when life is challenging us, when things are really
really hard, we can focus on that thing that's hard
and difficult, or we can choose to focus on the

(56:32):
things that give us strength, the things that give us hope,
the things that help us get through. And so for
you today, Angel Joy Blue, what else is true?

Speaker 4 (56:42):
That rhyme?

Speaker 2 (56:44):
What else is true? It is just that, Oh Laverne,
don't get mad at me. I'm not trying to be preachy.
God loves you. God loves you, God loves your audience,
God loves you. And I don't know what is true.
It's just that I'm bless, I'm thankful, and there's a
lot of hard things happening in the world. There's a

(57:05):
lot of difficulty, a lot of things that are hard
to just get through. But you know, knowing that, knowing
that there's a God in heaven who loves us for me.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
That's everything there.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
Yeah, what I would say to those people out there
who are not necessarily religious, because I don't consider myself
a religious person, but I can consider myself a spiritual person.
I think it's believing in something bigger than you and
a power that is greater than you. I think it's
been very essential for my life. It's been very necessary.

(57:40):
And I know I left the church, but I never
left God. I never ever had a moment. I've never
ever had a moment in my life where I doubt
it the presence of God in my life. I have
issues with religion, but I've never had issues with God
and what God is doing and how God is operating.
And I haven't always understood the path that my higher
power wants for me. But but I understand it better

(58:01):
by and bye, yes bye, and bye yes, yes, honey,
we'll understand it better by and bye. That is a
great note to end on. You're such a beautiful light
and so talented, and I just I love I love talent,
and your in your heart is just as big as
your talent. I love you, Angel, love you too, Thank you,

(58:24):
Thank you, Angel Blue. Just to think about a voice,
particularly this Prano voice, that sound, that frequency is just
the most beautiful thing in the world to me. Do
you feel that that's a Prano frequency? That note, that phrase,

(58:45):
that vulnerability, that the fragility of the human voice the
power at the same time, the fragile with the powerful.
I just love it. I love it, and I love
Angel and her commitment to the gift and to the
craft and to study. I love the idea of being

(59:07):
a perpetual student. I feel like a perpetual student of
life of art, and perhaps that's a life lesson. As
accomplished as we all can be, we are still students. Historically,
Offers sing Hers to have been very mysterious and very aloof,
and Angel is the opposite of that. Her transparency and

(59:28):
her sort of sharing her struggles is something that is
so necessary because it's important for us to know that
everybody struggles, that everybody goes through something. And I think
the lesson for me is endless possibility through hard work.
And you know, I don't want to like lean into

(59:50):
bootstrapped narratives or anything like that, but I think there's
just something wonderful about working hard and enjoying the process
of working hard doing something that you love. You know,
hard work doing something you hate is terrible. It's a
terrible thing. But when you love something and you really
want to be good at it, you know, the work
just comes because you're just so passionate. Angel and I

(01:00:11):
think share that in common, the passion for the work
and the passion for getting better.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
Music.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
From San Francisco Opera is Elchobatore is courtesy of Angel
Joy Blue, and a big thank you to the Philadelphia
Orchestra for providing the audio of Angel singing Da Mozuale
Rose from Ilobatore by Verdi, which she performed with them
in September of twenty twenty. She'll be back with the
Philadelphia Orchestra next June twenty twenty four. Thank you for

(01:00:49):
listening to The Laverne Cox Show. Please rate, review, subscribe
and share with everyone you know. You can find me
on Instagram and Twitter aka x and TikTok at Laverne
Coxon on Facebook at Laverne Cox four real. Until next time,
stay in the love. The Laverne Cox Show is a

(01:01:13):
production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
Can you be here

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Voice of the Operatic Angel Blue