July 27, 2022 • 45 mins
Jean Pigozzi lives by three rules: Never go into the office before 12. Work should be fun. And women like to have sex. This endlessly fascinating and curious photographer and art collector designs homes that make even Martha envious. Jean keeps Martha spellbound with his star-studded stories about his travels, his parties, inventing the “selfie”, and amassing the world’s largest collection of African Art. Listen in.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What would you say or the number of photographs in
your archive that this young man who works for me
the other days in the act of more than one
million pitches of my life. Wow. So let me introduce you.
John Pagotzi, or Johnny as I know him, is a
(00:23):
world renowned photographer. He's an art collector, a venture capitalist,
a one time television host. I've been on his show before,
and he is also a fashion designer. He's also known
as the father of the selfie and it's an absolute
pleasure to welcome him to my podcast all the way
(00:43):
from France. Are you in on Tebe? Johnny? I am
in on Tebe in the south of France next to
the scene. It's a beautiful, beautiful day. Well, Johnny Pegotzi
has been very busy. He changes direction at the at
the drop of a pin. You do, Johnny. He's a
shirt designer. One year, he's a boat designer. Another year
(01:07):
he is a rock contour always uh. He is building
an amazing home in the hills of Los Angeles. He
is living high and beautifully on the coast of France
in on te Uh. He is friends with every single
movie star. Oh. Probably the most impressive thing that that
(01:29):
impressed me tremendously. Was your Can Film Festival party, the
annual party? Did you have one this year? I stopped
doing my first of all last year it was COVID Yeah,
and this year I decided not to do it. And
I'll tell you why because when I had the last
time three years ago, there were a lot of people
at the party had no idea who they were. I'm
(01:51):
not going to give a party people, and I tell
you this. So this year I got a lot of
email saying, oh, Jean, at what time is your party
on Saturday? But the best email I got is that
guy says, hello, my name is George. You don't know me.
I came to your party three years ago with my
girlfriend Stephanie, who's not my girlfriend anymore, but I would
like to come anyway. I have no idea who Stephanie was.
(02:13):
I annoying it, so I said, you know what, I'm
not going to give a partical people I don't know.
The only way you can give a party is when
you know people. Okay, I'm not gonna invite people I
don't know. Yeah, but you're in your books legendary photographs
of all the guests that your parties for the can
Film festivals. You had Michael Douglas, you had Sophia La
and have you had everybody at your party? So I know.
(02:37):
So so you don't know the current movie stars. I
don't know know that you know DiCaprio is the youngest
of the movie stars. I know. Now I'm an old bag. Now.
Your real passion, I think is photography. Is that? Is that?
Are you more passionate about photography or about collecting art?
What's what's what's the what's the thing now? Well, photography,
(03:01):
I mean collecting that. You know, you don't really you
need some kind of a talent, but photography is you
need some kind of a tannel because it's so easy
now to take pictures. You know, anybody now with an
iPhone can take a photograph. Okay, but I started a long, long, long,
long time ago, and the difference between a good photograph
(03:21):
and a great photograph is very, very small thing. So
I'm still obsessed every day. I take pictures every day
of anything, trees, my dogs, myself, people I see in
the road, you know, anything. And instead I still don't
understand that at my happy little age of seventy, I'm
(03:42):
still interested in taking photographs. I'm still obsessed by taking
photograph and I keep on buying new cameras and new
things and all that. And I still don't understand where
this passion comes from, but it's there. You've published several
books of a charge of photographs. I did a lot
of books, and I'm working on new books now, and
it's um I don't know. Last week I went to
(04:04):
and which I have never done. I went to a careader,
which is a horrible thing in Madrid, really horrible. But
I took them quite good pictures, so that was kind
of interesting. You know, at a bull fight. It's horrible.
I stayed after two things if I couldn't stand it anymore.
But what's your new book? What's the focus of your
(04:25):
new book? The new book. I'm working on a book,
but I'm gonna see if it can work. It's my
forty five year of friendship with Mick Jagon, so hundreds
of hundreds of pictures. But we're working on demorously some pictures.
He said, well, you know, Johnny, this is too intimate.
We can't put this or this one is fine, you know.
(04:46):
So we've been working together to see work pictures we
can put in the book because you know certain pictures,
you know, I understand, you know he doesn't want to
you know, they were not There's nothing embarrassing or anything.
So that's that's a And then you know, I did
a book about the two hundred and thirteen most important
men in my life, and you know the business thing.
(05:08):
I can't remember anything, but I can. I can say, oh,
I remember the picture I took of MafA with Johnny
and Yelli is on the left of Johnny on the sailboat.
Have an incredible visual memory. I couldn't remember what food
we had at the earth. God, I can remember I said, oh, yeah,
I took that picture that brown dog running after the cat.
(05:32):
I ken't And what year, well, I can't remember the year,
but it must have been and they fined the picture.
It's incredible. I can remember millions and millions of photographs
and I can't remember the name of the street next
to my house in Los Angeles. But you know, Johnny,
the camera, the camera is is your brain and your eyes,
and that's and that happens. I think to visual people
(05:54):
that that you know once. For me, it's like I
can remember everything that I ever was filmed in like
I've done so many TV shows and I can remember
and I don't have to look at him again because
I know what I did in the show, and it's
the same kind of thing. It's like, it's that kind
of visual, visual, peculiar thing that happens to somebody who's visual,
(06:17):
and you are so visual, and uh, that's very interesting.
A million photographs that is that is a lot of
photo And what about your relationship with the one photographer
I never got to work with and I always wanted to.
I didn't know what he would make me do. I
was frightened to death of Helmett Newton because Helmett Newton
was very avant garde helmet I met many many years
(06:40):
ago and passed, and then when he moved to Monaco,
I used to spend a lot of time with him.
And actually there's a fantastic film, The June, which was
his late wife, made of him, and it's if somebody
wants to become a fashion photographer, they should look at
this film. And it's incredible how by details he would say, sweetheart,
(07:02):
move your leg two inches that way. Assistant moved the
flowers a mile away. They was moved those red flowers
a bit to the left, uh move, and then he
would use Then he said, you know all these young
photographers they used photoshop. Okay, they changed. When I give
my pictures to Vogue, they can print them the perfect okay.
(07:25):
But when I think that, and I used to look
at him work. He was so precise and so incredibly
obsessed by the most minute detail with the light with
him And this isn't it When I met Johnny Pegotzi,
this was in I think the first time I met
you was maybe in St. Barts. You know, when they
were there were wild parties, and and you were always
(07:47):
with your little instematic camera taking selfies and nobody else
was doing that. Nobody else was was recording themselves with
everybody they met. You would put your arm over across
our shoulder and you would have your long arm out,
your other arms out your camera and with a flash,
always with a flash, and you would get the most
(08:08):
beautiful pictures of us. And and I could only think
one picture, yes, right, I could only think one picture
because the flashing those they took a long time to recycle,
the fifteen seconds. Let's say you take a picture of them,
there's a goodbye, and they would walk away, so you
better get it right, Okay. So the first one I did,
I think, was in nineteen seventies three of Faith Underway.
(08:30):
So Faith Underway was at Harvard. She was the Lampoon
Lady of the Year or something like that, and it's
the first time I took a picture of that. And
after that I had worked out and I had a
little like with a little flash, and because I had
a long arm, I could take these pictures and I
took hundreds and hundreds and then I did the book
that's called Me and Co which has been published many,
(08:52):
many times. And I think I really invented the selfie.
I think, what is it? Yeah, well, what is a secret?
And nobody knows that I am one of the richest
people in the world because every time somebody takes a
selfie I get one cent. Oh I wish, don't you wish?
I wish? I wish to. Let's give our listeners a
(09:23):
little bit of background into who the heck is Johnny Pegozzi.
Where were you born? Johnny? I was born in Paris, France,
from Italian parents who my father immigrated from Italy and
started a car company in France that was called Simca,
and my mother was also Italian, but they lived in Paris,
(09:45):
and that's where I was born. Where were the car factories?
Embarrassed Paris? And then in ninety yeah, yeah, And then
in nineteen sixty two Chrysler what you know about, bought
the company from my father, so it became an American company.
Did they continue to make the little Simkers? They make
(10:06):
it and managed to screw it up in two years
and three years they completely screwed it up. They changed
their name to Talbot, and they completely screwed it up.
And it's gone very sadly. And if the listeners have
any idea of what a Simca car looked like, can
you describe the Simka? You have your driveway at duren
Is lined with little Simkers. I have plenty of them.
(10:29):
So Simca was a popular car, not a very expensive car,
but they were very good looking. And my father was
intervened in by design, so usually they were very good
and they had great colors and other So I have
a beautiful norn and I just had it restored now
and I drive into the hotel decup of it, and
they're so proud of it that they always leave it
in the front door. And then I also have a
(10:51):
station where you come now then, actually my mother's cook
used to use but I just had it redone now
and then I have another one that's going to be
be done next winter. That's the same one that the
president shout the goal used to drive around it. So
it went from from a very simple car to the
car that the president drove. So they made every kind
of car. When my father was like one car out
(11:13):
of three in France was as simpler one out of three.
Now this is this is a small car. No, they
had big ones and smaller than everything. Oh, I didn't
know they were large, because I always described them as
a small car, like like almost like even smaller than
a beetle of Volkswagen Beetle. No, no, no, no. They
had every size the no, no, everything, and what the
(11:36):
most famous one was called a ronde, which is like
a bird, and they were the same. It's an anagram
of my house. Yet it's called the run the house.
He's called the run. It's an anagram of a hold.
And then he had an called P sixty when he
was sixty years old, PIGOUSI sixty years old. He had
when I was called P sixty, you had no interest
(11:56):
in becoming a car manufacturer. But I was very saday
I was. I was twelve years old when my father died,
so you know when I became older after I went
to Harvard. Uh no, I'm not that interested in cars. No, okay,
how did you How did you find your way to
Harvard from Paris? I found my way from a miracle.
(12:19):
I knew nothing about American universities, so I applied to Harvard, Yale,
and a couple of other ones. They all rejected me.
And then in the middle of August, I got a
telegram from Harvard says, well, if you go and do
this interview in Paris next week, you might get in.
So I went to do an interview in this big office.
(12:41):
I had them a little suit and a little time.
It was a big bank and the gentleman sitting behind
the desk, what kind of serious guy said the way
you're from? Originally? I said, well, I was born in Paris,
but my family is from Torino. He said, okay, I'm
going to ask you two questions, and if you get
them right, you'll get into Harvard. So the first question
(13:03):
is what is the best restaurant? Areno? So I said
captain there the black cat. He said, okay, and he said,
next question, he says, when is the season for white truffles?
I said October November. He said, young man, you'll go
to Harvard And I went to Do you remember who
that was interviewing you. No. He was a very very
(13:24):
obviously very nice man, a genius because he sent me
to Harvard. Uh. He he was. He was the European
president for a bank. It's called the Irving Trust. You
remember the Irving Trust. Of course I don't think they
kiss any more, but it was a big bank in
those days. It was incorporated into some other bank and
then into some other bank. So after Harvard, did you
(13:46):
go get a job someplace? Or did you you were rich?
You were you were the heiror you were the heir
to the Simca fortune. Right. I had some money, but
I never I didn't use it for a long time. Now.
My first job, I went to work for an uncle
of mine who made supermarket cuts. So I know everything
about the wheels, how they stack into each other. I
(14:07):
saw supermarket cuts all around the world. So about for
a year I did that, and then I went to
work for a French film company. It's called Gaumont and
they sent me to a Fox they were going to
try to merge. So so I spent like like six
months at Fox in Los Angeles, and I stayed at
the Bevel, his hotelian room five twelve, and I had
(14:30):
at this time until when they at the pool, I
met this character Armad Ottagon and we became incredibly good friends.
And I quit Fox and I started traveling with him
and I had the best time of my life, and
he had He taught me three very important things, the
rules of his life, and then I applied them to
(14:52):
my life. Okay, business should be fun, never go to
the office with before twelve, and women like to have sex. Okay,
those are the three things. Ahmed er again, I found
him a very attractive man, and I'm Ert again. Iman
(15:12):
Ert again was it was a very very successful entrepreneur.
He was in music business. Describe, Describe what you did
with him. So Ahmed was the sun of the Turkish
embassador in Washington and obviously stiff familyine him and his
brother next week loved black music. So and in those
(15:36):
days that's been in the fifties, black music you had
to go like into the ghetto to hear it and
they started going to then they started recording it, and
then they started this company, Atlantic Records, and they had
all the you know, from Arita flank Gren to Ray Charles,
and then they had the rolling Stones that Zeppelin, all
(15:58):
the greatest acts in the world. And he was fabulous
because he had on one side he had this very elegant,
you know, the beautiful house with a very elegant wife,
and on the other side he had his completely rock
and roll life where you know, everything would go, stay
up all night and on that. So it was it
was a I spent so much time with him and
(16:19):
then we laughed so much. It was absolutely he was
an incredible, incredible, incredible I was sorry that I never
got to see his beautiful house, his villa in in
Turkey and Bowdroom. Didn't he have a been amazing house. Yeah,
he had an amazing house in bod Room that was
made out of the stones of a famous temple that
was there. But I went there past forty years ago,
(16:42):
I wasn't gored. Now it's in the middle of the
On the left, there's a discotheque. On the right there's
another discotheque. Now it's a little bit different and I
did the first time it was there was, you know,
three old dogs on the harbor walking around, so it's very,
very different, but it's a beautiful and his wife, Mika,
having has very old had incredible taste, so she she
(17:05):
decorated her well you too. You took me to dinner
at their house in New York City. In New York
remember taking me to dinner, and we were served the
strangest meal. We had potato pirogui, which are stuffed potato
dumplings um and served with great gobs of caviare on
(17:27):
the potato dumplings. Do you remember, No, I remember all
these things. And then we had we had roast leg
of lamb with mint jelly, very very American, and I
was just I was just sort of taken aback by
the combination. It was so like, oh my gosh, mint
(17:48):
jelly with leg of lamp. I mean, that's an American thing.
But I had no idea that a sophisticated woman like
Miko would be serving that. But she liked really really
good food and nice combinations of food. And uh. And
as you said, she was one of the She was
and is one of the most elegant women that ever lived. Um,
(18:09):
and she had this rock and roll husband, sort of
like your your friend, uh, your friend from Fiat, your
uncle Johnny and Jellie. You know, I learned I was,
you know, sadly my father died when I was very young.
But I had this fabulous older men in my life
who were like ten or twenty years older than me,
(18:31):
who took me under their wing, and and nearly was
one of them was by father, most elegant men in
the in the world. I think he was a real prince.
And he also had the kind of a double life. Okay,
you had a very elegant wife and then and then
he could be the funniest and the craziest person on
the other side. And I used to go we used
to go sing together, and we traveled and I used
(18:52):
to He was very interested by contemporary art and all then,
and also by girls and all that he was. And
then you would go to his house and then there
was the ye not the buttons with white gloves and
all that. So it was it was really he was fabulous.
And then I had another friend of mine was called
Jimmy Goldsmith, who was also an English guy, Sir James Goldsmith,
(19:13):
who also was also had a double life of a
big businessman of that but also incredibly funny and know that.
And then my other friend was Henwood Newton, the photographer,
who was also an older gentleman. Uh. And then I
had or SATs was a famous Italian architect who did
all my life, all my houses, so I was there.
And then another one, incredible his book just came out
(19:35):
now and you should interview him, Chris Blackwell, who discovered uh,
Bob Marley and you too, you know that. And he
is the most the freest man I ever met in
my life. He's from Jamaica. Do you know I was
madly in love with Chris Blackwell. I'm not I'm not surprised.
I never told you that I actually slept in his
(19:57):
bed in the House of Mary and the House of
Bob Marley down in Jamaica. But I loved him. He
was one of the most most creative men I've ever
met and nicest to Chris Blackwell when I knew him
really well, he was living in Jamaica most of the time.
And uh, but what a handsome, elegant man. But you
(20:20):
had those are very fantastic men to have as mentors,
really really fabulous and and Johnny Peggotti actually took me
on Stealth, which was the racing yacht of Mr an
Yelli with Mr an Yelli, and he let me steer
that boat. Remember, and you have a picture of me
(20:41):
yes in Corsica, and I want that picture desperately, and
you're gonna have to known that loan that picture to
me for for my doctor, my documentary. Johnny, I'm coming
after you for some photos. But but what what incredib
what incredible mentor? And a toris so Sace your architect,
(21:03):
tell us about your relationship with him, because your whole,
your whole sort of esthetic centered around a modern Italian
idiom that was so different from anybody else's. Even your boot,
your big freighter turned into a stas creation with Johnny
Peggotti touches everywhere. So I was very lucky. I bought
(21:25):
this big apartment in New York, and I had an
American architect and I was not really happy with him.
It was very traditional and not not interesting. So I
had a friend in California was from Max Peleski, who
was a high tech guy, very interesting, and he said,
why don't you ask actor Sutas said, he's never Gonna.
(21:45):
I said, I don't even know who he is. So
in those days there was no internet. So I went
to the reach Solid bookstore, you remember the Resultive and
I bought three books on subcess and I said, I
love this guy. So I called that Troy up and that.
I said, well, I'll come and see you next week
in New York. Okay. So he came and immediately we
became friends. And he looked at you. I had a
(22:06):
coat on, and he said, you like your coat. I said, yeah,
I like my coat. He said, would you be wearing
the same coat in two years time? I said, be up?
He said, well wrong. What you should do is when
you have a house, every two or for years, you
should change everything in your house. So I said, okay,
well that's interesting. So any case, we started doing by
in partular New York, and I loved it. Is that
the one in the Cafe dres Ar Chiefs building at
(22:29):
the Big Triplex. And Johnny has one of the most beautiful,
beautiful villas in the south of France. Um, if you
think you've seen it all when you go to the
Hotel de cap well you haven't seen anything until you
visit Johnny at Villa Doraine, his gorgeous ancestral home in
(22:50):
the south of France and so beautiful. So what have
you been up to lately? I haven't. I have not
visited you or been with you, except for your be
in New York, which was very interesting. I se you
for several years. Yeah, so you know, an exhibit at
a moment, it just it just like rolls off his tongue.
It's absolutely no accomplishment whatsoever. A very extensive exhibit. What
(23:15):
don't you tell us about that exhibit, Johnny, because I
was surprised at it. I have been collecting contemporary Africa
not for the last thirty two of the three years,
and I think I have the largest and I hope
the best collection of contemporary African nut in the world.
And we had many many shows at the Google Hummet Bilbao,
(23:37):
at the Fontaction, we to in Paris, in many many places. Okay,
and about three years ago I was approached by the
Moment and they said, will you give us something? I said, okay,
that's an interesting museum and we I gave them forty
five pieces, which is by enough, but the biggest number
(24:01):
they've never got nothing value because obviously give them a Picasso.
That's we're fifteen million dollars of Mark. But I started
the African collection, and two years ago we had a
show with a very great artist from Zai from Congo
that's called Bodisquins who makes these crazy cities. And now
we just have I showed it on until us in
mid August of a fabulous artist from Ivory Coast, it's
(24:25):
called brule Bare who there's this wonderful little who did
it passed away? Said, who does his wonderful little drawings
of everything in the world? That because he there's a
language is called by which is not a written language.
So one day he got a message from God and
he said, you have to do a drawing for everything.
So the dog, the poodle, the woman, the boat, the airplane.
(24:48):
He did that drawing for everything. So I gave this
I think it's seventeen hundred dollars seven seven hundred drawings
that I gave them all to the moment, and that's
what they're showing now. And I think you saw the
show and it's it's from Mark. But he was like
a he's remarkable. It is remarkable, and and the detail
of these little tiny drawings, and you explained to me
that the drawings are all the same size, and they
(25:10):
were all painted on the reverse side of a shampoo
bottle label exactly because he was a very modest man
and he lived next to a lady's head dresser, and
the head dresser would throw away the boxes and he
the inside of the box was not printed, so they
are about the size of a postcard. So he started
(25:31):
using these things and with pencils like children's pencil but
he started doing these fantastic drawings with words around them.
And that's that's indate thousands and thousands of them on
these wonderful and it says, you know, this shampoo is
a special shampoo for black ladies. Straightened up your hair
in the reverse. But they were all beautifully framed in
(25:52):
Chinese little frames, and they're all lined up very precisely
on the walls of moment and uh, and you had
quite a crowd did that exhibit. Very famous artists came.
Tell us about some of the guests, or you have
so many friends everywhere. I'm just astonished all the time
the the incredibly interesting and diverse friends that you have.
(26:13):
So who was there that night? One of the very
interesting person was married to Catalan, who was a famous
Italian they like a kind of surrealist man. He's a
great he's a friend of mine and he does really like.
One of the pieces I owned by him is that
giant supermarket cart which is like four times the size
(26:35):
of her and it's called five Items or Less, and
I have it in my house in Los Angeles. Giant.
He said you should go to the the supermarket and use it.
But he does very very interesting strangers. So he was there,
and then there was my friend and Duan was a
fabulous painter who was the used to be married to
Julian Schnabel, right Schnabel, and she never went to art
(26:58):
school and she has become an incredible, very very successful painter,
which is which is amazing, and she does very well.
But a lot of people can. All my friends came
and I tell you why they all came because the
first time we did an opening, uh, the invitation came
from the museum mo or not. So people said, I
one more invitation for the mother. So the second time
(27:19):
I sent it on my email and then people came. Okay,
so now I understood something. When you invite people have
to put your own name and not the name of
an institutional and that's that's for sure, even even if
it's the Museum of Modern Art. Yeah, people, one one
more opening, you know, or one more one more fundraiser,
(27:40):
one more fundraiser, yeah panic, you know, I don't want
to give my money, so now and can sit the
famous for the film festival. I am doing a preview
for the museum that I'm building in can We're going
to do with the mayor and I think the Minister
of Culture and France. We're going to inaugurate the new
museum that I'm building in Khan from my African collection.
(28:01):
It's kind of interesting. It's um it's a it's a
church with two buildings next to it. And it was
a Russian church, and but I went there on Sunday.
They had two or three people there. All the Russians,
I guess are gone or they don't go to church.
So with something that I didn't know in France, the
churches are owned by the government and not by the church. Okay,
(28:24):
So when the mayor of con said let's do a museum,
I said where So he said the first one, he said,
he gave me a glass factory. And the problem it
was in a difficult but then he said, what about
the Church's okay, let's go see it. And I really
like the church, but I said, it's the church. He said, well,
we're going to give a different We have another church
we can give to the Russian community. So they gave
(28:44):
me the church with two little buildings and it's really
it's about six thousand square feet and it's very charming.
Was built in or something like that. So when next
time you come, I will show you the church. I
can't wait. And so you have to you have to
construct walls within the church because there's no walls church. Oh,
and I think you The interesting thing is because it's
(29:05):
owned by the government, we are going to have to
have a competition, open competition for any architect in the world.
So you know, like when they built Bauboo in Paris,
you know, Renzo Piano arrived, nobody knew who this young
guy was, okay, and this amazing vineg So we're going
to have a competition. Perhaps you're going to find the
(29:25):
next uh, you know, the next Frank Lot right or
the next genius to do this. Oh, that is very exciting.
And when do you think you'll start construction or or
at least start the contest. The contest should sometimes in
the fall. They are already all the papers already, so
sometime in the fall, and I will be one of
the members of the jury. So it's very exciting. And
(29:48):
so about you know, less than a year we know
the who the architect will be. Yes, what what's it?
What's it going to be called? It's gonna be called
music p GTZI. How great? Well, I want to come
to the opening. Okay, well that's what that's that. I
can't give you a day to put the New Canada,
but it would mean about wow, how fantastic yea? And
(30:21):
what about you here? You are seventy years old. I
couldn't get into your birthday zoom call, by the way,
and I'm still fretting about that, because you had too
many friends and by the time I tried to zoom in,
it was closed to your friends. So so at seventy
years old, here's Johnny Pegozzi, one of the most attractive
(30:43):
men in the whole world for his entire life, and
he is unmarried, childless that we don't I mean, maybe
you have children that we don't know about. Do you
have any children that we don't know about you, don't
I've dread every year Father's Day. I think somebody's gonna
come and ring my dog back and say, Hi, this
is Stephanie. I'm your thought. I'm thirty five years old though, Hi,
(31:06):
Georgia night. Well up to now it hasn't happened. But
I think I do not regret being married. Okay, because
if you look, you and I can look at Let's
say eight of the people around us are divorced. Oh,
they live horrible marriages, that they hate each other. Okay,
is that true? Yes, yes, that's true. Okay, So then
(31:28):
I do miss not having children. But on the other side,
as her, friends of mine who have children were so difficult,
so difficult, they're screwed up. They do nothing. On the
other side, I have friends who have great children. So
I might have been lucky and having good I don't know.
But also have zero patients. You know, when my parents
chose me, they said, he has to be tall, he
(31:49):
has to be a good swimmer, he doesn't have to cook,
he has to be a good driver. But they forgot
to put across the patients. I have no patient for
So to be good parents parents, you have to be
you have to have you have to have patience and
that I'm not man zero. So who are you still
dying to take a selfie with? Is there any who
(32:10):
are the Who are five people you have not been
able to get a picture with. I don't think I
have a picture of Elon with Elon Mosque and I
had dinner Vilon Mosque three years ago and at the
end of the day I said, Elon, you didn't really
listen to me, said no, Johnny, I'm sorry. Um, I
was inventing and I resolved the problem, had to make
flying cars, okay, So that's when I would like I
(32:35):
like it. You know, basically, I don't know. There's people
I don't know, and I don't even know who they are.
I'm most impressed not my movie stars and on that
that doesn't you know not. I'm most interested by incredible scientists,
like people who you know, who could have the next
you know, a cure for cancer. Uh even somebody who
(32:55):
can invent an injection so you won't have a cold anymore.
You know, that would be right, you know, you just
take a pill and your poll goes away. I'm most interested,
now bye, by scientists who who can resolve big problems
that those are the people and most of it. But
I'm I'm sadly it's not really world I know anything about,
but i'd like to those are the people are most impressed.
(33:17):
But but if you say you know the next supermodel,
and you know I'm not that. You know, I'm not
that intreat So the scientists, are you interested in longevity?
I mean you are? We know that you're seventy years
old going on seventy one, yes, huh, when you're when
your birthday I forgot in January? In January? I mean,
(33:37):
you know, sad enough, when you're old, you discover how
many paths can go wrong in your body. Okay, It's
like in a car, you know, they say the break
the mufflet to this, and you say, oh, you know,
when you're fifties, so well, you know, my elbow hurts
a little bit. But when you're old, it's your elbow,
it's your back, it's your liver, it's it's your eyes,
(33:58):
and there's so many things that you know. I remember
when I was young with my friends, we used to
talk about girls and hedge funds. Okay, now when I
meet people in my agent, who's your hot doctor? How
many pills are you taking? You know, I mean it's
completely different investing. Okay, but you're looking good, You're looking good.
Health you look, you look, you look robust. I look okay, Yeah,
(34:20):
I look okay. But when I go to the doctors,
so your heart is going to fast, your liver? Is
this your I don't know what I think this pilitic
that pill and you know, you know, I feel okay.
I just swim now for an hour at full speed.
But who knows, you know, I don't know. So I
think you're I think you're doing just fine. And what
(34:40):
about what about hedge funds? What? What have you? What
are you investing in these days? Because you've always been
sort of at the forefront of technology, uh, interested in
uh And as you say science, did you invest in
Tesla early on? No? I did not, and I didn't.
I mean, I'll tell you a very embarrassing story about
(35:02):
thirty years ago. I was at this high tech conference
in a small room. There must have been fifteen people
in the room, and there was this guy. He said
it was a public company, by the way, And he said, oh,
I drove with my wife and my two dogs from
New York to Seattle, and we started this company that
sells books, okay, and the adventure we sell some other things.
(35:25):
And I was sitting on the last one said as
this guy knows about bunds and nobles, as you heard
of dumb bunds and noble. So then I became friends,
uh with Jeff Jesus and Jeff, I feel terrible. It
was a public company. It was a tent that stopped
and moved at ten. You could buy as many shares
as you want, and I said, I feel He said, Johnny,
let me tell you a story. When I started Amazon,
(35:49):
I needed money, so I sold a quarter of Amazon
for a million dollars to my dent, to my uncle,
to my friend who had a bit of Okay, you
want to know something, None of made any money when
the stock went from ten to fifteen. They all sold
Now will be worth like six hundred billion dollars, okay,
(36:09):
So don't feel so any case. I invest a lot
with new high tech companies, and then you know what
I find fascinated. I speak to kids who are between
the age of twenty five and thirty five, okay, and
they say, we can cure cancer, we can feed Africa,
We have a way of doing this new blood analyzer.
(36:32):
We can do this. And I make a lot of investments,
and some of them I do. I've been to many
many high tech funerals. Okay, I look at this baseball
cap cost me two hundred dollars. This T shirt cost
me a hundred. But sometimes you know, I was lucky
enough to invest in Facebook. Well, and now my most
(36:53):
interesting I have two very interesting one or two many more.
But one of them is called Goodible, which I invested
last year. And this is a guy who is called
Mohammed Lillah. He was a war report at CNN, so
he reported on people getting murdered, building exploding, another and
(37:14):
he said, you know what, I'm going to start the
channel that only has good news. Okay, And he's done it,
and he's doing quite well. It's called Goodiball. And that's
kind of an interesting thing. What's he writing about nowadays?
I I don't see too much good good news in
the newspapers that I read every day, exactly, but there
(37:35):
is hidden So he has a very interesting AI system
that looks at thousands of news feeds, and out of
the fousands every day, you find let's say some women
started at school for young women in Iran. Uh. This
(37:56):
guy there was a fire. This fireman went in and
save five dogs. Uh. There's always there's always somewhere in
this horrible disaster. Uh. This kid had cancer and he survived.
There's always some good news, you know. So I feel that,
you know, perhaps of the people around the world don't
(38:17):
want to hear about horrible things. Anybody want to hear
about uplifting good thing, people doing good things. So that's
the idea of this, of this program. So that that's
one thing. The other one I invested at this about
four years ago. It's a company that's called Diamond Foundry
and they make diamonds. So they make man made diamonds, okay,
and it has been it's a big successful you know,
(38:39):
rings and all that. So that has been a big success.
So that's another one that I have. And then I'm
always looking at you know, always looking at new companies.
And I love talking to these young entrepreneurs. You know,
they're not I can see negative things about everything, but
these young people who in the twenties, they don't see
anything negative about anything they which is really fun. So
(39:02):
that keeps me young and interested. So that's one of
those you know that. Another one is you know, the
EpiPen when you get bitten by So these guys invented
and it's much much easier and much much cheaper to
make it. Just it's around thing you just press one,
but a much easier to deliver the thing. Another one
which you would like is the thing you use your
iPhone and you take a picture of what you're eating
(39:25):
and it tells exactly how many calories it is. That's good,
it's good enough. So they took thousands and thousands of
photographs of different food from Chinese food to salad to steak,
to this and that and then and and then they
have this system. Okay, so and and because it's it
has machine learning, the more data it is, the better
(39:45):
it gets. Okay, So that's kind of an interesting thing.
Those are some of the companies I'm interested in. So
here's a curious man. Has curiosity played the biggest part
of your in your life? Of all of all senses.
There's two things that kept me going. When it's creativity, okay,
(40:06):
in anything it could be from taking a photograph to
redoing a house to doing I don't know, something different
to being curious every day when I go to bed.
I said, what did I learn today? And there's Saturn days.
I learned nothing, and I feel terrible. I said, this
was a stupid wasted day. But today I learned about
you know, how whales communicate to each other or how whatever. Okay,
(40:31):
that for me is the most interesting thing that that
you can do. That's what keeps you going. If you're
not curious, you better close down, you can close. I
know you're immensely curious, and it's the most important to
be curious. I have a motto. I was going to
say that learns learn something new every day. I completely agree.
(40:53):
You know what I find strange You meet young people
in the thirties. They are like on the train, they
go to the office, they come all but they're not
curious about anything. It's so terrible. And then you meet
people in ninety years old who are learning a new language,
who are learning a new science, who are reading incredible
books and all that, and their mind is much more
(41:13):
agile and interesting that some young deep squeaks who have
you know, gave up. I completely agree with you, completely agree.
And it can be how to bake a new thing,
a new kind of vegetables, uh, something of how birds
talk to each other, actually, how to drive a motorcycle, whatever, Okay,
but it's all every day. There's something to learn, and
(41:35):
I find it really interesting, really important. So I have
some questions. I just want quick answers to before we
close this very very interesting talk. Um. Which city do
you enjoy living in the most in the world. Well,
for years and years it was New York, and now
I find New York the noise and the activity. I
(41:59):
was in New York two weeks ago. I don't want
to live in New York anymore. But that didn't answer
my question. Which city do you find do I find interesting?
I find the center is kind of interesting because even
if it's very widespread, its people doing very interesting things.
The wet is terrific and interesting people. So now it's
I'm interested a better centers. So where are you the
(42:22):
most comfortable in any of your houses? Which house are
you most comfortable in? Well, in my house here in
the south of France, because I love swimming and I
have a big forest and I have a big comfortable
house of the house in France. Yes, Of all art
forms that you have been exposed to, which is your favorite?
(42:47):
When my favorite is the most complicated one is movies,
because I think making movies has to be the most
complicated art form have ever made in the world, have invented.
And your favorite movi V of all time, you know,
like everybod needed, like everybody. Citizen Kane. When you think
when it when it was done by this young man,
(43:07):
it's incredible, Citizen Kane. And your favorite piece of art
that you have ever bought. Well, I discovered this photographer
that's called Suketa who was a potent photographer Maley in
the sixties and and he's been an incredible revelation. And
the amazing thing he would only take one picture. You
(43:29):
know now photographers take a hundred pittures. He would think one.
He was very, very cheap, so he would take one picture.
That's it. And those are those those large photographs of
like couples or person that you have in your home. Oh,
I love the fabulas. We're going to have a show
next year at the Brooklyn Museum, so good. I certainly will.
(43:52):
And the most beautiful woman you have ever seen, I
think it's in a movie, Sophia Lauren when she was
two years old. Incredible. She was also actress and funny.
I I probably saw the same movies you saw. And
I always thought when I looked at Sophia A. Wren
(44:12):
that Martha, you will never grow up to be anything
like Sophia Loren. How could any woman ever equals Sophia Alan?
Isn't that funny? I always used her as that example.
And uh, what's the best piece of advice you've ever
been given? Well? Would I talk you before that armada?
(44:34):
Those three things? And talking about that you have a
girlfriend right now that I don't know about. Uh No,
I don't well on that sad note, because you should
always have a girlfriend. Thank you so much, Johnny. It's
all I love talking to you, and you always reveal
something new about yourself that I hadn't heard before. And
(44:57):
uh and it's just a pleasure to talk to you
and have have a nice few weeks in the south
of France. Enjoy yourself.
What would you say or the number of photographs in
your archive that this young man who works for me
the other days in the act of more than one
million pitches of my life. Wow. So let me introduce you.
John Pagotzi, or Johnny as I know him, is a
(00:23):
world renowned photographer. He's an art collector, a venture capitalist,
a one time television host. I've been on his show before,
and he is also a fashion designer. He's also known
as the father of the selfie and it's an absolute
pleasure to welcome him to my podcast all the way
(00:43):
from France. Are you in on Tebe? Johnny? I am
in on Tebe in the south of France next to
the scene. It's a beautiful, beautiful day. Well, Johnny Pegotzi
has been very busy. He changes direction at the at
the drop of a pin. You do, Johnny. He's a
shirt designer. One year, he's a boat designer. Another year
(01:07):
he is a rock contour always uh. He is building
an amazing home in the hills of Los Angeles. He
is living high and beautifully on the coast of France
in on te Uh. He is friends with every single
movie star. Oh. Probably the most impressive thing that that
(01:29):
impressed me tremendously. Was your Can Film Festival party, the
annual party? Did you have one this year? I stopped
doing my first of all last year it was COVID Yeah,
and this year I decided not to do it. And
I'll tell you why because when I had the last
time three years ago, there were a lot of people
at the party had no idea who they were. I'm
(01:51):
not going to give a party people, and I tell
you this. So this year I got a lot of
email saying, oh, Jean, at what time is your party
on Saturday? But the best email I got is that
guy says, hello, my name is George. You don't know me.
I came to your party three years ago with my
girlfriend Stephanie, who's not my girlfriend anymore, but I would
like to come anyway. I have no idea who Stephanie was.
(02:13):
I annoying it, so I said, you know what, I'm
not going to give a partical people I don't know.
The only way you can give a party is when
you know people. Okay, I'm not gonna invite people I
don't know. Yeah, but you're in your books legendary photographs
of all the guests that your parties for the can
Film festivals. You had Michael Douglas, you had Sophia La
and have you had everybody at your party? So I know.
(02:37):
So so you don't know the current movie stars. I
don't know know that you know DiCaprio is the youngest
of the movie stars. I know. Now I'm an old bag. Now.
Your real passion, I think is photography. Is that? Is that?
Are you more passionate about photography or about collecting art?
What's what's what's the what's the thing now? Well, photography,
(03:01):
I mean collecting that. You know, you don't really you
need some kind of a talent, but photography is you
need some kind of a tannel because it's so easy
now to take pictures. You know, anybody now with an
iPhone can take a photograph. Okay, but I started a long, long, long,
long time ago, and the difference between a good photograph
(03:21):
and a great photograph is very, very small thing. So
I'm still obsessed every day. I take pictures every day
of anything, trees, my dogs, myself, people I see in
the road, you know, anything. And instead I still don't
understand that at my happy little age of seventy, I'm
(03:42):
still interested in taking photographs. I'm still obsessed by taking
photograph and I keep on buying new cameras and new
things and all that. And I still don't understand where
this passion comes from, but it's there. You've published several
books of a charge of photographs. I did a lot
of books, and I'm working on new books now, and
it's um I don't know. Last week I went to
(04:04):
and which I have never done. I went to a careader,
which is a horrible thing in Madrid, really horrible. But
I took them quite good pictures, so that was kind
of interesting. You know, at a bull fight. It's horrible.
I stayed after two things if I couldn't stand it anymore.
But what's your new book? What's the focus of your
(04:25):
new book? The new book. I'm working on a book,
but I'm gonna see if it can work. It's my
forty five year of friendship with Mick Jagon, so hundreds
of hundreds of pictures. But we're working on demorously some pictures.
He said, well, you know, Johnny, this is too intimate.
We can't put this or this one is fine, you know.
(04:46):
So we've been working together to see work pictures we
can put in the book because you know certain pictures,
you know, I understand, you know he doesn't want to
you know, they were not There's nothing embarrassing or anything.
So that's that's a And then you know, I did
a book about the two hundred and thirteen most important
men in my life, and you know the business thing.
(05:08):
I can't remember anything, but I can. I can say, oh,
I remember the picture I took of MafA with Johnny
and Yelli is on the left of Johnny on the sailboat.
Have an incredible visual memory. I couldn't remember what food
we had at the earth. God, I can remember I said, oh, yeah,
I took that picture that brown dog running after the cat.
(05:32):
I ken't And what year, well, I can't remember the year,
but it must have been and they fined the picture.
It's incredible. I can remember millions and millions of photographs
and I can't remember the name of the street next
to my house in Los Angeles. But you know, Johnny,
the camera, the camera is is your brain and your eyes,
and that's and that happens. I think to visual people
(05:54):
that that you know once. For me, it's like I
can remember everything that I ever was filmed in like
I've done so many TV shows and I can remember
and I don't have to look at him again because
I know what I did in the show, and it's
the same kind of thing. It's like, it's that kind
of visual, visual, peculiar thing that happens to somebody who's visual,
(06:17):
and you are so visual, and uh, that's very interesting.
A million photographs that is that is a lot of
photo And what about your relationship with the one photographer
I never got to work with and I always wanted to.
I didn't know what he would make me do. I
was frightened to death of Helmett Newton because Helmett Newton
was very avant garde helmet I met many many years
(06:40):
ago and passed, and then when he moved to Monaco,
I used to spend a lot of time with him.
And actually there's a fantastic film, The June, which was
his late wife, made of him, and it's if somebody
wants to become a fashion photographer, they should look at
this film. And it's incredible how by details he would say, sweetheart,
(07:02):
move your leg two inches that way. Assistant moved the
flowers a mile away. They was moved those red flowers
a bit to the left, uh move, and then he
would use Then he said, you know all these young
photographers they used photoshop. Okay, they changed. When I give
my pictures to Vogue, they can print them the perfect okay.
(07:25):
But when I think that, and I used to look
at him work. He was so precise and so incredibly
obsessed by the most minute detail with the light with
him And this isn't it When I met Johnny Pegotzi,
this was in I think the first time I met
you was maybe in St. Barts. You know, when they
were there were wild parties, and and you were always
(07:47):
with your little instematic camera taking selfies and nobody else
was doing that. Nobody else was was recording themselves with
everybody they met. You would put your arm over across
our shoulder and you would have your long arm out,
your other arms out your camera and with a flash,
always with a flash, and you would get the most
(08:08):
beautiful pictures of us. And and I could only think
one picture, yes, right, I could only think one picture
because the flashing those they took a long time to recycle,
the fifteen seconds. Let's say you take a picture of them,
there's a goodbye, and they would walk away, so you
better get it right, Okay. So the first one I did,
I think, was in nineteen seventies three of Faith Underway.
(08:30):
So Faith Underway was at Harvard. She was the Lampoon
Lady of the Year or something like that, and it's
the first time I took a picture of that. And
after that I had worked out and I had a
little like with a little flash, and because I had
a long arm, I could take these pictures and I
took hundreds and hundreds and then I did the book
that's called Me and Co which has been published many,
(08:52):
many times. And I think I really invented the selfie.
I think, what is it? Yeah, well, what is a secret?
And nobody knows that I am one of the richest
people in the world because every time somebody takes a
selfie I get one cent. Oh I wish, don't you wish?
I wish? I wish to. Let's give our listeners a
(09:23):
little bit of background into who the heck is Johnny Pegozzi.
Where were you born? Johnny? I was born in Paris, France,
from Italian parents who my father immigrated from Italy and
started a car company in France that was called Simca,
and my mother was also Italian, but they lived in Paris,
(09:45):
and that's where I was born. Where were the car factories?
Embarrassed Paris? And then in ninety yeah, yeah, And then
in nineteen sixty two Chrysler what you know about, bought
the company from my father, so it became an American company.
Did they continue to make the little Simkers? They make
(10:06):
it and managed to screw it up in two years
and three years they completely screwed it up. They changed
their name to Talbot, and they completely screwed it up.
And it's gone very sadly. And if the listeners have
any idea of what a Simca car looked like, can
you describe the Simka? You have your driveway at duren
Is lined with little Simkers. I have plenty of them.
(10:29):
So Simca was a popular car, not a very expensive car,
but they were very good looking. And my father was
intervened in by design, so usually they were very good
and they had great colors and other So I have
a beautiful norn and I just had it restored now
and I drive into the hotel decup of it, and
they're so proud of it that they always leave it
in the front door. And then I also have a
(10:51):
station where you come now then, actually my mother's cook
used to use but I just had it redone now
and then I have another one that's going to be
be done next winter. That's the same one that the
president shout the goal used to drive around it. So
it went from from a very simple car to the
car that the president drove. So they made every kind
of car. When my father was like one car out
(11:13):
of three in France was as simpler one out of three.
Now this is this is a small car. No, they
had big ones and smaller than everything. Oh, I didn't
know they were large, because I always described them as
a small car, like like almost like even smaller than
a beetle of Volkswagen Beetle. No, no, no, no. They
had every size the no, no, everything, and what the
(11:36):
most famous one was called a ronde, which is like
a bird, and they were the same. It's an anagram
of my house. Yet it's called the run the house.
He's called the run. It's an anagram of a hold.
And then he had an called P sixty when he
was sixty years old, PIGOUSI sixty years old. He had
when I was called P sixty, you had no interest
(11:56):
in becoming a car manufacturer. But I was very saday
I was. I was twelve years old when my father died,
so you know when I became older after I went
to Harvard. Uh no, I'm not that interested in cars. No, okay,
how did you How did you find your way to
Harvard from Paris? I found my way from a miracle.
(12:19):
I knew nothing about American universities, so I applied to Harvard, Yale,
and a couple of other ones. They all rejected me.
And then in the middle of August, I got a
telegram from Harvard says, well, if you go and do
this interview in Paris next week, you might get in.
So I went to do an interview in this big office.
(12:41):
I had them a little suit and a little time.
It was a big bank and the gentleman sitting behind
the desk, what kind of serious guy said the way
you're from? Originally? I said, well, I was born in Paris,
but my family is from Torino. He said, okay, I'm
going to ask you two questions, and if you get
them right, you'll get into Harvard. So the first question
(13:03):
is what is the best restaurant? Areno? So I said
captain there the black cat. He said, okay, and he said,
next question, he says, when is the season for white truffles?
I said October November. He said, young man, you'll go
to Harvard And I went to Do you remember who
that was interviewing you. No. He was a very very
(13:24):
obviously very nice man, a genius because he sent me
to Harvard. Uh. He he was. He was the European
president for a bank. It's called the Irving Trust. You
remember the Irving Trust. Of course I don't think they
kiss any more, but it was a big bank in
those days. It was incorporated into some other bank and
then into some other bank. So after Harvard, did you
(13:46):
go get a job someplace? Or did you you were rich?
You were you were the heiror you were the heir
to the Simca fortune. Right. I had some money, but
I never I didn't use it for a long time. Now.
My first job, I went to work for an uncle
of mine who made supermarket cuts. So I know everything
about the wheels, how they stack into each other. I
(14:07):
saw supermarket cuts all around the world. So about for
a year I did that, and then I went to
work for a French film company. It's called Gaumont and
they sent me to a Fox they were going to
try to merge. So so I spent like like six
months at Fox in Los Angeles, and I stayed at
the Bevel, his hotelian room five twelve, and I had
(14:30):
at this time until when they at the pool, I
met this character Armad Ottagon and we became incredibly good friends.
And I quit Fox and I started traveling with him
and I had the best time of my life, and
he had He taught me three very important things, the
rules of his life, and then I applied them to
(14:52):
my life. Okay, business should be fun, never go to
the office with before twelve, and women like to have sex. Okay,
those are the three things. Ahmed er again, I found
him a very attractive man, and I'm Ert again. Iman
(15:12):
Ert again was it was a very very successful entrepreneur.
He was in music business. Describe, Describe what you did
with him. So Ahmed was the sun of the Turkish
embassador in Washington and obviously stiff familyine him and his
brother next week loved black music. So and in those
(15:36):
days that's been in the fifties, black music you had
to go like into the ghetto to hear it and
they started going to then they started recording it, and
then they started this company, Atlantic Records, and they had
all the you know, from Arita flank Gren to Ray Charles,
and then they had the rolling Stones that Zeppelin, all
(15:58):
the greatest acts in the world. And he was fabulous
because he had on one side he had this very elegant,
you know, the beautiful house with a very elegant wife,
and on the other side he had his completely rock
and roll life where you know, everything would go, stay
up all night and on that. So it was it
was a I spent so much time with him and
(16:19):
then we laughed so much. It was absolutely he was
an incredible, incredible, incredible I was sorry that I never
got to see his beautiful house, his villa in in
Turkey and Bowdroom. Didn't he have a been amazing house. Yeah,
he had an amazing house in bod Room that was
made out of the stones of a famous temple that
was there. But I went there past forty years ago,
(16:42):
I wasn't gored. Now it's in the middle of the
On the left, there's a discotheque. On the right there's
another discotheque. Now it's a little bit different and I
did the first time it was there was, you know,
three old dogs on the harbor walking around, so it's very,
very different, but it's a beautiful and his wife, Mika,
having has very old had incredible taste, so she she
(17:05):
decorated her well you too. You took me to dinner
at their house in New York City. In New York
remember taking me to dinner, and we were served the
strangest meal. We had potato pirogui, which are stuffed potato
dumplings um and served with great gobs of caviare on
(17:27):
the potato dumplings. Do you remember, No, I remember all
these things. And then we had we had roast leg
of lamb with mint jelly, very very American, and I
was just I was just sort of taken aback by
the combination. It was so like, oh my gosh, mint
(17:48):
jelly with leg of lamp. I mean, that's an American thing.
But I had no idea that a sophisticated woman like
Miko would be serving that. But she liked really really
good food and nice combinations of food. And uh. And
as you said, she was one of the She was
and is one of the most elegant women that ever lived. Um,
(18:09):
and she had this rock and roll husband, sort of
like your your friend, uh, your friend from Fiat, your
uncle Johnny and Jellie. You know, I learned I was,
you know, sadly my father died when I was very young.
But I had this fabulous older men in my life
who were like ten or twenty years older than me,
(18:31):
who took me under their wing, and and nearly was
one of them was by father, most elegant men in
the in the world. I think he was a real prince.
And he also had the kind of a double life. Okay,
you had a very elegant wife and then and then
he could be the funniest and the craziest person on
the other side. And I used to go we used
to go sing together, and we traveled and I used
(18:52):
to He was very interested by contemporary art and all then,
and also by girls and all that he was. And
then you would go to his house and then there
was the ye not the buttons with white gloves and
all that. So it was it was really he was fabulous.
And then I had another friend of mine was called
Jimmy Goldsmith, who was also an English guy, Sir James Goldsmith,
(19:13):
who also was also had a double life of a
big businessman of that but also incredibly funny and know that.
And then my other friend was Henwood Newton, the photographer,
who was also an older gentleman. Uh. And then I
had or SATs was a famous Italian architect who did
all my life, all my houses, so I was there.
And then another one, incredible his book just came out
(19:35):
now and you should interview him, Chris Blackwell, who discovered uh,
Bob Marley and you too, you know that. And he
is the most the freest man I ever met in
my life. He's from Jamaica. Do you know I was
madly in love with Chris Blackwell. I'm not I'm not surprised.
I never told you that I actually slept in his
(19:57):
bed in the House of Mary and the House of
Bob Marley down in Jamaica. But I loved him. He
was one of the most most creative men I've ever
met and nicest to Chris Blackwell when I knew him
really well, he was living in Jamaica most of the time.
And uh, but what a handsome, elegant man. But you
(20:20):
had those are very fantastic men to have as mentors,
really really fabulous and and Johnny Peggotti actually took me
on Stealth, which was the racing yacht of Mr an
Yelli with Mr an Yelli, and he let me steer
that boat. Remember, and you have a picture of me
(20:41):
yes in Corsica, and I want that picture desperately, and
you're gonna have to known that loan that picture to
me for for my doctor, my documentary. Johnny, I'm coming
after you for some photos. But but what what incredib
what incredible mentor? And a toris so Sace your architect,
(21:03):
tell us about your relationship with him, because your whole,
your whole sort of esthetic centered around a modern Italian
idiom that was so different from anybody else's. Even your boot,
your big freighter turned into a stas creation with Johnny
Peggotti touches everywhere. So I was very lucky. I bought
(21:25):
this big apartment in New York, and I had an
American architect and I was not really happy with him.
It was very traditional and not not interesting. So I
had a friend in California was from Max Peleski, who
was a high tech guy, very interesting, and he said,
why don't you ask actor Sutas said, he's never Gonna.
(21:45):
I said, I don't even know who he is. So
in those days there was no internet. So I went
to the reach Solid bookstore, you remember the Resultive and
I bought three books on subcess and I said, I
love this guy. So I called that Troy up and that.
I said, well, I'll come and see you next week
in New York. Okay. So he came and immediately we
became friends. And he looked at you. I had a
(22:06):
coat on, and he said, you like your coat. I said, yeah,
I like my coat. He said, would you be wearing
the same coat in two years time? I said, be up?
He said, well wrong. What you should do is when
you have a house, every two or for years, you
should change everything in your house. So I said, okay,
well that's interesting. So any case, we started doing by
in partular New York, and I loved it. Is that
the one in the Cafe dres Ar Chiefs building at
(22:29):
the Big Triplex. And Johnny has one of the most beautiful,
beautiful villas in the south of France. Um, if you
think you've seen it all when you go to the
Hotel de cap well you haven't seen anything until you
visit Johnny at Villa Doraine, his gorgeous ancestral home in
(22:50):
the south of France and so beautiful. So what have
you been up to lately? I haven't. I have not
visited you or been with you, except for your be
in New York, which was very interesting. I se you
for several years. Yeah, so you know, an exhibit at
a moment, it just it just like rolls off his tongue.
It's absolutely no accomplishment whatsoever. A very extensive exhibit. What
(23:15):
don't you tell us about that exhibit, Johnny, because I
was surprised at it. I have been collecting contemporary Africa
not for the last thirty two of the three years,
and I think I have the largest and I hope
the best collection of contemporary African nut in the world.
And we had many many shows at the Google Hummet Bilbao,
(23:37):
at the Fontaction, we to in Paris, in many many places. Okay,
and about three years ago I was approached by the
Moment and they said, will you give us something? I said, okay,
that's an interesting museum and we I gave them forty
five pieces, which is by enough, but the biggest number
(24:01):
they've never got nothing value because obviously give them a Picasso.
That's we're fifteen million dollars of Mark. But I started
the African collection, and two years ago we had a
show with a very great artist from Zai from Congo
that's called Bodisquins who makes these crazy cities. And now
we just have I showed it on until us in
mid August of a fabulous artist from Ivory Coast, it's
(24:25):
called brule Bare who there's this wonderful little who did
it passed away? Said, who does his wonderful little drawings
of everything in the world? That because he there's a
language is called by which is not a written language.
So one day he got a message from God and
he said, you have to do a drawing for everything.
So the dog, the poodle, the woman, the boat, the airplane.
(24:48):
He did that drawing for everything. So I gave this
I think it's seventeen hundred dollars seven seven hundred drawings
that I gave them all to the moment, and that's
what they're showing now. And I think you saw the
show and it's it's from Mark. But he was like
a he's remarkable. It is remarkable, and and the detail
of these little tiny drawings, and you explained to me
that the drawings are all the same size, and they
(25:10):
were all painted on the reverse side of a shampoo
bottle label exactly because he was a very modest man
and he lived next to a lady's head dresser, and
the head dresser would throw away the boxes and he
the inside of the box was not printed, so they
are about the size of a postcard. So he started
(25:31):
using these things and with pencils like children's pencil but
he started doing these fantastic drawings with words around them.
And that's that's indate thousands and thousands of them on
these wonderful and it says, you know, this shampoo is
a special shampoo for black ladies. Straightened up your hair
in the reverse. But they were all beautifully framed in
(25:52):
Chinese little frames, and they're all lined up very precisely
on the walls of moment and uh, and you had
quite a crowd did that exhibit. Very famous artists came.
Tell us about some of the guests, or you have
so many friends everywhere. I'm just astonished all the time
the the incredibly interesting and diverse friends that you have.
(26:13):
So who was there that night? One of the very
interesting person was married to Catalan, who was a famous
Italian they like a kind of surrealist man. He's a
great he's a friend of mine and he does really like.
One of the pieces I owned by him is that
giant supermarket cart which is like four times the size
(26:35):
of her and it's called five Items or Less, and
I have it in my house in Los Angeles. Giant.
He said you should go to the the supermarket and use it.
But he does very very interesting strangers. So he was there,
and then there was my friend and Duan was a
fabulous painter who was the used to be married to
Julian Schnabel, right Schnabel, and she never went to art
(26:58):
school and she has become an incredible, very very successful painter,
which is which is amazing, and she does very well.
But a lot of people can. All my friends came
and I tell you why they all came because the
first time we did an opening, uh, the invitation came
from the museum mo or not. So people said, I
one more invitation for the mother. So the second time
(27:19):
I sent it on my email and then people came. Okay,
so now I understood something. When you invite people have
to put your own name and not the name of
an institutional and that's that's for sure, even even if
it's the Museum of Modern Art. Yeah, people, one one
more opening, you know, or one more one more fundraiser,
(27:40):
one more fundraiser, yeah panic, you know, I don't want
to give my money, so now and can sit the
famous for the film festival. I am doing a preview
for the museum that I'm building in can We're going
to do with the mayor and I think the Minister
of Culture and France. We're going to inaugurate the new
museum that I'm building in Khan from my African collection.
(28:01):
It's kind of interesting. It's um it's a it's a
church with two buildings next to it. And it was
a Russian church, and but I went there on Sunday.
They had two or three people there. All the Russians,
I guess are gone or they don't go to church.
So with something that I didn't know in France, the
churches are owned by the government and not by the church. Okay,
(28:24):
So when the mayor of con said let's do a museum,
I said where So he said the first one, he said,
he gave me a glass factory. And the problem it
was in a difficult but then he said, what about
the Church's okay, let's go see it. And I really
like the church, but I said, it's the church. He said, well,
we're going to give a different We have another church
we can give to the Russian community. So they gave
(28:44):
me the church with two little buildings and it's really
it's about six thousand square feet and it's very charming.
Was built in or something like that. So when next
time you come, I will show you the church. I
can't wait. And so you have to you have to
construct walls within the church because there's no walls church. Oh,
and I think you The interesting thing is because it's
(29:05):
owned by the government, we are going to have to
have a competition, open competition for any architect in the world.
So you know, like when they built Bauboo in Paris,
you know, Renzo Piano arrived, nobody knew who this young
guy was, okay, and this amazing vineg So we're going
to have a competition. Perhaps you're going to find the
(29:25):
next uh, you know, the next Frank Lot right or
the next genius to do this. Oh, that is very exciting.
And when do you think you'll start construction or or
at least start the contest. The contest should sometimes in
the fall. They are already all the papers already, so
sometime in the fall, and I will be one of
the members of the jury. So it's very exciting. And
(29:48):
so about you know, less than a year we know
the who the architect will be. Yes, what what's it?
What's it going to be called? It's gonna be called
music p GTZI. How great? Well, I want to come
to the opening. Okay, well that's what that's that. I
can't give you a day to put the New Canada,
but it would mean about wow, how fantastic yea? And
(30:21):
what about you here? You are seventy years old. I
couldn't get into your birthday zoom call, by the way,
and I'm still fretting about that, because you had too
many friends and by the time I tried to zoom in,
it was closed to your friends. So so at seventy
years old, here's Johnny Pegozzi, one of the most attractive
(30:43):
men in the whole world for his entire life, and
he is unmarried, childless that we don't I mean, maybe
you have children that we don't know about. Do you
have any children that we don't know about you, don't
I've dread every year Father's Day. I think somebody's gonna
come and ring my dog back and say, Hi, this
is Stephanie. I'm your thought. I'm thirty five years old though, Hi,
(31:06):
Georgia night. Well up to now it hasn't happened. But
I think I do not regret being married. Okay, because
if you look, you and I can look at Let's
say eight of the people around us are divorced. Oh,
they live horrible marriages, that they hate each other. Okay,
is that true? Yes, yes, that's true. Okay, So then
(31:28):
I do miss not having children. But on the other side,
as her, friends of mine who have children were so difficult,
so difficult, they're screwed up. They do nothing. On the
other side, I have friends who have great children. So
I might have been lucky and having good I don't know.
But also have zero patients. You know, when my parents
chose me, they said, he has to be tall, he
(31:49):
has to be a good swimmer, he doesn't have to cook,
he has to be a good driver. But they forgot
to put across the patients. I have no patient for
So to be good parents parents, you have to be
you have to have you have to have patience and
that I'm not man zero. So who are you still
dying to take a selfie with? Is there any who
(32:10):
are the Who are five people you have not been
able to get a picture with. I don't think I
have a picture of Elon with Elon Mosque and I
had dinner Vilon Mosque three years ago and at the
end of the day I said, Elon, you didn't really
listen to me, said no, Johnny, I'm sorry. Um, I
was inventing and I resolved the problem, had to make
flying cars, okay, So that's when I would like I
(32:35):
like it. You know, basically, I don't know. There's people
I don't know, and I don't even know who they are.
I'm most impressed not my movie stars and on that
that doesn't you know not. I'm most interested by incredible scientists,
like people who you know, who could have the next
you know, a cure for cancer. Uh even somebody who
(32:55):
can invent an injection so you won't have a cold anymore.
You know, that would be right, you know, you just
take a pill and your poll goes away. I'm most interested,
now bye, by scientists who who can resolve big problems
that those are the people and most of it. But
I'm I'm sadly it's not really world I know anything about,
but i'd like to those are the people are most impressed.
(33:17):
But but if you say you know the next supermodel,
and you know I'm not that. You know, I'm not
that intreat So the scientists, are you interested in longevity?
I mean you are? We know that you're seventy years
old going on seventy one, yes, huh, when you're when
your birthday I forgot in January? In January? I mean,
(33:37):
you know, sad enough, when you're old, you discover how
many paths can go wrong in your body. Okay, It's
like in a car, you know, they say the break
the mufflet to this, and you say, oh, you know,
when you're fifties, so well, you know, my elbow hurts
a little bit. But when you're old, it's your elbow,
it's your back, it's your liver, it's it's your eyes,
(33:58):
and there's so many things that you know. I remember
when I was young with my friends, we used to
talk about girls and hedge funds. Okay, now when I
meet people in my agent, who's your hot doctor? How
many pills are you taking? You know, I mean it's
completely different investing. Okay, but you're looking good, You're looking good.
Health you look, you look, you look robust. I look okay, Yeah,
(34:20):
I look okay. But when I go to the doctors,
so your heart is going to fast, your liver? Is
this your I don't know what I think this pilitic
that pill and you know, you know, I feel okay.
I just swim now for an hour at full speed.
But who knows, you know, I don't know. So I
think you're I think you're doing just fine. And what
(34:40):
about what about hedge funds? What? What have you? What
are you investing in these days? Because you've always been
sort of at the forefront of technology, uh, interested in
uh And as you say science, did you invest in
Tesla early on? No? I did not, and I didn't.
I mean, I'll tell you a very embarrassing story about
(35:02):
thirty years ago. I was at this high tech conference
in a small room. There must have been fifteen people
in the room, and there was this guy. He said
it was a public company, by the way, And he said, oh,
I drove with my wife and my two dogs from
New York to Seattle, and we started this company that
sells books, okay, and the adventure we sell some other things.
(35:25):
And I was sitting on the last one said as
this guy knows about bunds and nobles, as you heard
of dumb bunds and noble. So then I became friends,
uh with Jeff Jesus and Jeff, I feel terrible. It
was a public company. It was a tent that stopped
and moved at ten. You could buy as many shares
as you want, and I said, I feel He said, Johnny,
let me tell you a story. When I started Amazon,
(35:49):
I needed money, so I sold a quarter of Amazon
for a million dollars to my dent, to my uncle,
to my friend who had a bit of Okay, you
want to know something, None of made any money when
the stock went from ten to fifteen. They all sold
Now will be worth like six hundred billion dollars, okay,
(36:09):
So don't feel so any case. I invest a lot
with new high tech companies, and then you know what
I find fascinated. I speak to kids who are between
the age of twenty five and thirty five, okay, and
they say, we can cure cancer, we can feed Africa,
We have a way of doing this new blood analyzer.
(36:32):
We can do this. And I make a lot of investments,
and some of them I do. I've been to many
many high tech funerals. Okay, I look at this baseball
cap cost me two hundred dollars. This T shirt cost
me a hundred. But sometimes you know, I was lucky
enough to invest in Facebook. Well, and now my most
(36:53):
interesting I have two very interesting one or two many more.
But one of them is called Goodible, which I invested
last year. And this is a guy who is called
Mohammed Lillah. He was a war report at CNN, so
he reported on people getting murdered, building exploding, another and
(37:14):
he said, you know what, I'm going to start the
channel that only has good news. Okay, And he's done it,
and he's doing quite well. It's called Goodiball. And that's
kind of an interesting thing. What's he writing about nowadays?
I I don't see too much good good news in
the newspapers that I read every day, exactly, but there
(37:35):
is hidden So he has a very interesting AI system
that looks at thousands of news feeds, and out of
the fousands every day, you find let's say some women
started at school for young women in Iran. Uh. This
(37:56):
guy there was a fire. This fireman went in and
save five dogs. Uh. There's always there's always somewhere in
this horrible disaster. Uh. This kid had cancer and he survived.
There's always some good news, you know. So I feel that,
you know, perhaps of the people around the world don't
(38:17):
want to hear about horrible things. Anybody want to hear
about uplifting good thing, people doing good things. So that's
the idea of this, of this program. So that that's
one thing. The other one I invested at this about
four years ago. It's a company that's called Diamond Foundry
and they make diamonds. So they make man made diamonds, okay,
and it has been it's a big successful you know,
(38:39):
rings and all that. So that has been a big success.
So that's another one that I have. And then I'm
always looking at you know, always looking at new companies.
And I love talking to these young entrepreneurs. You know,
they're not I can see negative things about everything, but
these young people who in the twenties, they don't see
anything negative about anything they which is really fun. So
(39:02):
that keeps me young and interested. So that's one of
those you know that. Another one is you know, the
EpiPen when you get bitten by So these guys invented
and it's much much easier and much much cheaper to
make it. Just it's around thing you just press one,
but a much easier to deliver the thing. Another one
which you would like is the thing you use your
iPhone and you take a picture of what you're eating
(39:25):
and it tells exactly how many calories it is. That's good,
it's good enough. So they took thousands and thousands of
photographs of different food from Chinese food to salad to steak,
to this and that and then and and then they
have this system. Okay, so and and because it's it
has machine learning, the more data it is, the better
(39:45):
it gets. Okay, So that's kind of an interesting thing.
Those are some of the companies I'm interested in. So
here's a curious man. Has curiosity played the biggest part
of your in your life? Of all of all senses.
There's two things that kept me going. When it's creativity, okay,
(40:06):
in anything it could be from taking a photograph to
redoing a house to doing I don't know, something different
to being curious every day when I go to bed.
I said, what did I learn today? And there's Saturn days.
I learned nothing, and I feel terrible. I said, this
was a stupid wasted day. But today I learned about
you know, how whales communicate to each other or how whatever. Okay,
(40:31):
that for me is the most interesting thing that that
you can do. That's what keeps you going. If you're
not curious, you better close down, you can close. I
know you're immensely curious, and it's the most important to
be curious. I have a motto. I was going to
say that learns learn something new every day. I completely agree.
(40:53):
You know what I find strange You meet young people
in the thirties. They are like on the train, they
go to the office, they come all but they're not
curious about anything. It's so terrible. And then you meet
people in ninety years old who are learning a new language,
who are learning a new science, who are reading incredible
books and all that, and their mind is much more
(41:13):
agile and interesting that some young deep squeaks who have
you know, gave up. I completely agree with you, completely agree.
And it can be how to bake a new thing,
a new kind of vegetables, uh, something of how birds
talk to each other, actually, how to drive a motorcycle, whatever, Okay,
but it's all every day. There's something to learn, and
(41:35):
I find it really interesting, really important. So I have
some questions. I just want quick answers to before we
close this very very interesting talk. Um. Which city do
you enjoy living in the most in the world. Well,
for years and years it was New York, and now
I find New York the noise and the activity. I
(41:59):
was in New York two weeks ago. I don't want
to live in New York anymore. But that didn't answer
my question. Which city do you find do I find interesting?
I find the center is kind of interesting because even
if it's very widespread, its people doing very interesting things.
The wet is terrific and interesting people. So now it's
I'm interested a better centers. So where are you the
(42:22):
most comfortable in any of your houses? Which house are
you most comfortable in? Well, in my house here in
the south of France, because I love swimming and I
have a big forest and I have a big comfortable
house of the house in France. Yes, Of all art
forms that you have been exposed to, which is your favorite?
(42:47):
When my favorite is the most complicated one is movies,
because I think making movies has to be the most
complicated art form have ever made in the world, have invented.
And your favorite movi V of all time, you know,
like everybod needed, like everybody. Citizen Kane. When you think
when it when it was done by this young man,
(43:07):
it's incredible, Citizen Kane. And your favorite piece of art
that you have ever bought. Well, I discovered this photographer
that's called Suketa who was a potent photographer Maley in
the sixties and and he's been an incredible revelation. And
the amazing thing he would only take one picture. You
(43:29):
know now photographers take a hundred pittures. He would think one.
He was very, very cheap, so he would take one picture.
That's it. And those are those those large photographs of
like couples or person that you have in your home. Oh,
I love the fabulas. We're going to have a show
next year at the Brooklyn Museum, so good. I certainly will.
(43:52):
And the most beautiful woman you have ever seen, I
think it's in a movie, Sophia Lauren when she was
two years old. Incredible. She was also actress and funny.
I I probably saw the same movies you saw. And
I always thought when I looked at Sophia A. Wren
(44:12):
that Martha, you will never grow up to be anything
like Sophia Loren. How could any woman ever equals Sophia Alan?
Isn't that funny? I always used her as that example.
And uh, what's the best piece of advice you've ever
been given? Well? Would I talk you before that armada?
(44:34):
Those three things? And talking about that you have a
girlfriend right now that I don't know about. Uh No,
I don't well on that sad note, because you should
always have a girlfriend. Thank you so much, Johnny. It's
all I love talking to you, and you always reveal
something new about yourself that I hadn't heard before. And
(44:57):
uh and it's just a pleasure to talk to you
and have have a nice few weeks in the south
of France. Enjoy yourself.
Host
Martha Stewart
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.