Ep. 025

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
All right, this is the Meat Eater podcast. We're recording,
uh Prince Wales Island. I'm here with one of my
favorite people on the planet, Mr Ron Layton. What's your
middle name? Ron? No middle name, no middle name whatsoever,
Just Ron Layton. And also Joannice, the Latvian lover who
tell us who just got himself his first sick of

(00:29):
blacktail box. Purely recreational hunt, not like a thing I
want to be in the hero. But but tell him
you're hunting story, honest. You know. I was retelling my
hunting story about an hour ago over here, and I
found out that I killed Jones Buck. No you did, Yeah,
he did. I just told you I liked the hunt.

(00:50):
Down here in the lower Muskegs. We were no muskegs.
That's true, that's not There are bucks all over the place.
What about the other forky that he didn't do? You
need to tell your hunting story. I snuck up through
some muskegs three nights ago. This is record. Why are

(01:15):
you hunting at night? Let me set the stage. Would
you like to dusk? Pre dusk we're out working on
a secret project and in the morning and at nighttime
there's a little free time, which you're honest who you

(01:36):
might know from his famous T shirt line, the Hunt
to Eat T shirt line. You can go to hunt
eat dot com by when he's on his T shirts
and helped make him even richard than he's already become
selling his T shirts. You should send Rohn a free
T shirt. I will um Joe would like one the
Alaska shirts on its way. So you're making an Alaska
Hunt each shirt. Okay, So so do you have any

(01:59):
boots to go along with that shirt? Nope, he's not
in the bootmaking business yet, just T shirt man. So
uh yann, He's been feeling some of his free time,
like the time normal people would spend going home watching TV. Afterward,
Yeani goes out and looks for blacktail box. Tell me
your story, Johnnie. I was sneaking around with bad wind.

(02:21):
I ended up on a little knob like you were gassy.
No bad uh. There There were no steady thermals. It
was just the wind direction kept going. How what do
you call it? Willow wa willow? That's a bad wind. Well,
you never know which way is gonna be blowing. It
doesn't it's not consistent. It just it'll shift. It might

(02:43):
be coming out of the east, one time out of
the south another and then it's called the willow wa Willowa.
I had willow, and it betrayed my location to what
I thought was a buck. All I heard was boom
as it bounded off. So I ran over to where

(03:04):
his bed was. That I saw then, so he was
in his bed. He ran off. I stood there and
looked for ten minutes nothing. I started still hunting down
through the woods. Waited for another thirty minutes, and I
heard him again, and he drifted off. Never could catch
up to him. But he just knew he was a buck.
You could feel in your bones, a single animal, you know.

(03:24):
He sounded heavy to swear he was bed at. He
had himself a real nice perch for the nice outlook.
Seemed like a buck bed. It seems like a place
you just sleep if a deer. Steve and I came
back next night, sneaking in real quiet, real quiet, was
great wind from a different angle. We got to about
I don't know, a hundred yards or so, maybe a
little less of his bed, and we sat down. Steve

(03:48):
blue on his gear called it Ron gave him it's
called the summiner. Do you do not name that called
the summiner. Really yeah, because it summons him. That's exactly
righted it. That's why. Yeah, I'm gonna get to blacktail
deer calls your blacktailed deer calls in a minute. But
finished story because I blew the summiner. Yep, we waited.

(04:10):
It felt like fifteen might have been ten. But I
had it in my head that we should be moving.
I was getting ready to say, let's go, let's go. Picture.
This is dank, dark, temperate rainforest nastiness. Here's that old buck.
It looks thick when you just walk around it, through

(04:32):
it or whatever. Since the minute you start to hunt
in there and try to find a small h what
do you think that buck ways a hundred fifty pounds
or so? I didn't see it all that average blacktail
buck probably that. I think it look like a hundounds. Yeah,
so not not a giant animal. But man, when you

(04:54):
start looking for those suckers, then you go, man, this
place is really thick. It really is a jungle. Yeah. Anyways,
we laid down some sweet notes on the summer. We
had one good shooting lane. Ten minutes later, I was
looking up the top of the hill and it's a
little brown patch. Move well, Steve quit moving, so I

(05:15):
probably he said don't move, So I quickly moved in
order to look where he was looking by glassed him there.
He was looking down at us, looking for that What
are they coming to look for? Ron? When they hear
that call, they were curious. They're very they they become
very curious. And normally you're not going to get a

(05:37):
buck to come to a call this time a year.
Usually usually they will come, you know, during the rut.
But well, we had going for us. As we snuck
in on his bed, I think all he had to
do is basically stand up to be like, what the
hell is that? Well, I think that's basically what he did.
I don't think he traveled. Probably probably was like what's

(05:58):
going on? Well, curious again? But when you, hey, Yanni,
go grab a couple of Ron's deer calls. Oh, I
don't want to blow them. They'll blow damn thing. Um Ya,
Yanni shot the buck. It was a good shot. It

(06:20):
was Yanni's first sick of black tail. Now, Ron, let
me set the stage here little bit, because I was
playing Ron you'r. Ron was born in catch Can, Alaska
many years ago Um spent his whole life doing a
variety of things, but always hunting, fishing and whatnot. And

(06:43):
Yanni just laid down a large collection of Ron's Uh,
primarily handmade Sitka black Tail calls or black tail calls. First,
I got a question for you, ron Uh. Before I
was questioned, I was playing. There's just the of like
you have the rainforest round here, just thick ass rainforest,
live is old growth. Love has been caught at various times.

(07:06):
It's just really hard to see. But here and there
there's these features out in the rainforest called muskeg, and
I think it's successional like they were wetlands, you know,
marshy ground where Pete got built up and it crazes
these openings. It's like it seems metal like, but it's
very heavy moss and sedge in there, and it's like

(07:26):
the only place you actually see what's going on. Ron.
Do you think that the black tails like the muskeg
or is it just you can see him because it's
the only place you can see anything, Like, do you
think that they're actually in it or you just notice
them because it's the first time you can see beyond
arms reach. Well, I take uncertain days, they're gonna be

(07:52):
in those muskegs because of the sunn's out and they're
they're just million around um normally. I mean, if it's
a real bad day, if the sun is really pounding down,
you're gonna find oh, most of the deer in the
tall timber. And if you've ever been in the edge

(08:15):
of a tall timber and have a breeze go through there,
you'll understand why then, because it's probably a good maybe
twenty degrees cooler, and especially with the breeze coming down
through the the tall timber and the trees there, it's
real comfortable. I know it was comfortable for me when

(08:38):
I'm standing there in tall timber rather than out in
the sun. And a lot of people don't realize it here,
but the last couple of summers was almost record breaking
as far as yes it is, and I've had that
throughout my life where you do have warmer summers than others,

(09:04):
So I know what standing around and a muskeag could
do to me, you know, And especially if there's no
breeze at all, you're gonna overeat heat, especially if you're
in your camel gear whatever. So they like to feed
in that muskang is there grass or anything that grows

(09:24):
in there. And they you know, they like to forage anything.
And in that muskeag there are a lot of them.
You might might see that slow. Okay, Well, they do
eat the slough berry, and if you look close when
you're through there, you'll see a lot of the slough berries. So,
and they'll forage on almost anything in there. Um normally

(09:51):
they eat they eat on a plant called dear heart.
And this dear heart the reason why why it's called
dear heart. It the plant, the leaf itself is in
the shape of a dear heart. But they find this
very good. And there's been talk about how clear cuts

(10:13):
will expose a lot of dear heart to the sun,
which actually is bad for the dear heart. It takes
a lot of the nutrition out of it. So a
deer eating that is not going to have near the
nutrition that it would have if they were eating that
dear heart under the canopy, you know, in the tall

(10:36):
timber and in the wintertime, especially with deep snow and
stuff like that, they are dependent on this dear heart
in the tall timber, and that's how help gets them
through a deep cold winter. I've seen deer when there's

(10:58):
a lot of snow forced to the beach, and years
ago when you had a lot of snow forced to
the beach, then there was sometimes that they had to
actually bring bundles in of hay and start dropping around
on the beach edges just to help some of the

(11:21):
deer survived the I've heard that when you get bads though,
they'll come down to feed on like sea lattuce and
kelp that washes up on the beach and stuff. Yeah,
whatever they can get, whatever they could eat on. I
see him on the beach all the time eating and
they there. I think they are eating the goose dung
and the beach of sparages and and maybe even some

(11:44):
of the pop weed or the bulk kelp. I know
up at atln Island when they brought in transplant to elk,
they have found that the elk really like the bull kelp.
So they would come down and they'll be all over
the beaches eating the bull cell. And they are thinking

(12:08):
that maybe that is why this here group of elk
here have some record sized antlers and getting minerals and
stuff from the minerals, Yes, and and they do. They
won't allow those antlers to be entered in or counted
within any of their boone and Crocott because introduced or

(12:32):
something experimental. They color experimental herd. So you know those
elk like Land is the one they swim off when
they come to Prince of Wales, right correct, Yes, well
they swim They were transplanted only on Atland Island in
the area there, but since then they migrated over into

(12:53):
uh what's another island? I want to say, Samobia, But
and now you can't hunt these the on both of
those islands, at Land and Samobia. It's only a drawing
for for elk. Yeah, but if they make it to

(13:15):
this island, you can kill him on a deer tag
or non resident can kill it. I don't know what
a resident is, but a nonresident if you see an
elk on this island, the deer tag is all you
need to hunt that elk? Is that true with you?
Should they keep making they keep liberalizing it? How much?
How much was your deer tag? Because when I here
for non residents A hundred fifty bucks? Okay, because when
I talked to him here, I was just checking in

(13:36):
it into that just for you. Um, because and they
talked to about how it would be I think two
hundred and fifty dollars for you to get a permit
to get an elk on this island. A man. Yeah,
they keep changing it, man like, they keep making it
more and more easy. Well, it's probably because it's they're

(14:00):
they're becoming thicker, and they don't want to until they
fully understand what type of impact they would have on
the on the uh local deer population and I sit
good deer black tail. So until then, I think they
want to be cautious about allowing them to spread. And

(14:22):
they are spreading on the north end of the island.
Here there's a pretty good uh I heard that was
established in there getting after those things. Man. They yeah,
and there was two. There was a Roosevelt elk and
the Rocky Mountain. Rocky Mountain introduced And I couldn't. I

(14:47):
don't know the difference between either one of them. You know,
if I if I was elkus and elk, you you
might be able to tell the difference. Yeah, I mean yeah,
I mean there's some on the extremes on a big
on up one. I can look at him and tell
just on just sort of like the way they're shaped,
you know, what I'm saying, they're like stubb here Um.

(15:09):
Just for background, I always tell the story that when
the way I met Ron, like I would, I wouldn't
have met you if it weren't for you giving my
brother Danny a jar of smoked octopus. I don't know

(15:29):
how that was, because he came to your house in
two thousand two. Right, he came to your house and
you drove him around while they were doing some work.
Right when I when when I sent him home with
a jar of smoked octopus. He brought that jar of
smoked octopus to my house to share it. I ate

(15:54):
the smoked octopus. This is the best thing I ever had,
And I said, I want to meet the dude that
made that smoked octopus. So that's how you got up
here to the following year, then when we came up
to fish, right, and I thought of you, and before
I didn't know your name, but I called you the
smoked octopus guy, smoked octopus guy. Ron does a lot

(16:16):
of shrimp trapping. Explain shrimp trapping, and explain how you
get octopus in there? Now, now all the trap is
big enough. Yeah, And actually I had some octopus in
there that we're pretty good size. And of course, the
the entry holes on a shrimp trap or for the
most part about two inches across maybe round. And the

(16:45):
size octopus that I got that trappter, I just I
have to think, how how do they get in there?
But because the thing's thirty pounds to get in there? Oh, absolutely,
And their head is as big as yours. I mean
it's the biggest human head at that point. He's just like,
I don't get it either. How they get in there?
And and they get in there because they want to

(17:06):
eat the shrimp right right, The basically their tentacles is
actually about the size of what would slide through there.
So they have the the eight tentacles bluss their body.
So they have to they have to probably do it
slow and and squeeze in there. But I guess they
do it. I mean they do it that way. Yeah,

(17:27):
shrimp trap like picture in your mind, like like picture,
oh man, like like a bushel basket. It's quite a
bigger a bushel basket, and but the same basic shape
and like a compressed cylinder, you know. And you put
bait and the usually use salmon parts heads whatever fish heads,
clean fish, and you put a halbet head or salmon

(17:48):
head in there. Yeah, I don't know. In my shrimp pots,
I don't use allibant carcasses. It doesn't seem to work
as well as it does with the salmon salmon heads
or carcasses, So that I want to when I put
my pot I want to be as efficient as I
can because obviously the price of fuel there's an issue.

(18:15):
So when I set my potts, I want to be
very efficient. And uh, I learned um over time. You
know when they call hanging bait, well, you don't ever
want to hang bait in your pot? Hang it from
the top down. Yeah. What do you say about is uh,

(18:36):
let me, let me finish this, let me I want
to get this explained to people. A picture we're talking about.
It's like a cylindrical trap and it has funnel shaped
entries on it, so you know, the shrimp can kind
of he wants to get in there, and he finds
his way through the little funnel entries and it's harder
for him to get out. It doesn't prevent him from
getting out because you see him squirting out of there

(18:58):
all the time, but only holds them in there. And
these shrimp are big like the ones you target are
called spot shrimp, big as shrimp, deep cold water, and
they we're going feed off. Salmon Heads are just carcasses,
you know, and uh, you set in between thirty and

(19:20):
fifty fathoms of fathoms six ft so deep water. Actually,
different areas cause you to fish at different depths. So
wherever wherever I find. So if I move into area
with my pots, and I have ten pocks, I want
to set them in vary in various different depths. So

(19:42):
I want to spread out and try to find where
I get the best pots, where the the depths that
they're fishing best at. In certain areas, you might find
around forty fouthoms, is if and that's the best. Other

(20:02):
areas it could be sixty and where I'm at now
that's the case about sixty sixty two is what I
target now sixty water, right, yeah, And it's what we're
saying about hanging bait. You don't like the name hanging bait.
Hang bab means just taking a carcass, like people use
different baits for shrimp. Like you can take this stuff

(20:24):
like it looks like dog food's actually made like a
commercial bait looks like dog food. You fill it full
of a little can, but that's all ship you gotta buy.
You know. Hanging bait, that just means like a carcass, right,
you put it on a skewer like on a club.
Looks like a souped up safety pin. Yeah, it's a
souped up safety pins. So you you pierce your fish
parts and usually go through the the both eyes and

(20:48):
the head and then bringing the tail. So what I
The reason why I do that is I don't want
anything floating the top. And that's what I'm saying. When
and they say hanging bait, it's a misnomer, it's not. Well,
actually it is floating baits. So I put my bait

(21:12):
on the bottom of the trap so that it won't
float up to the top. So if you have it
on the top hanging down, then your base gonna float
up to the top. And I saw the shrimp half
to do. For the most part, trap sit on top
of the trap outside and eat so you're not catching
the amount of shrimp you could catch if you had

(21:32):
it on the bottom. And that's what I found. Yeah,
I'll point out I have shrimp pots and I don't
get a I mean, I don't get a fraction of
the shrimp of roskins and his pots that in the
same water kind of pisces me off. But that's one thing. Yeah,

(21:56):
he's got a big cold you' here, he got a
cold out deer hunt. He's not used to being cold
and wet when you used to. Uh, did you ever
commercially shrimp? No? Well I had a little bit, okay,
and uh it was just for a couple of seasons. Yeah,

(22:17):
but it was nothing big. You know, it qualified me
for a pot fish free license. But for me, I'm
not into that. I'm not into going out running pot fish. Uh,
pot fishing. So what do you mean, it's just like
you just didn't enjoy it, well, that kind of fishing. Yeah,

(22:41):
I really, I really didn't. In the time of year
that they set the season for is a bummer because
that season there, it just happens to be executed at
the time when the shrimper fully egg and everybody are

(23:02):
you know that the shrimp or unise unisex, so they
both if there's such a thing as both male and
female orphro did it right, so they are all egg bears. Okay,
So visualize the time, the time of year, I start

(23:27):
shrimping in in June or July, you as personal youth
like subsistence use as my gathering. Yeah, I don't like
the word subsistence, but so I just call it the
use of the resource or customery and traditional use. So
this uh this uh shrimping. When I shrimp, maybe one

(23:58):
if that are egged. But if you come into October,
starting in in late September, they all become started to
get become an egged, and it's going to turn it
around to where upwards of are egged. Yeah, and it

(24:23):
bothers me that this yere is allowed to go on.
In fact, it was this way in British Columbia and
it became problemmatic h to the quantities of shrimp. I
mean they started dropping and they figured out why. So

(24:48):
what they did is modified their seasons too. I think
they start in April, so they're all spawned out. They're
already hatched, so you're not they can shrimp outloaded. You're
waiting till it's matched. And by doing that, they're having

(25:08):
a pretty good uh season down there. For for their
commercial guys. Another they may have been doing down there
is they would they wouldn't go back of fishing an
area until after three years gone by. So they'll fish
this one area let's say two thousand and one, they

(25:34):
won't go back to that same area until about two
thousand and four. So what they do is send their
fleets out to a different area. But everything rebound. Everything rebound,
no chance of it be becoming damaged. In everybody, all
of your consumer groups, whether it be commercial or personal use,

(25:56):
or sport or anything, have a better catch rate, a
better success at their ability to get shrimp. So here
I've been I've been trying to convince uh A biologists
and catcher can two dropped the season down a little bit,

(26:22):
let it rebound. I've had commercial uh shrimp fishermen say
they should do this, they've noticed to catch declining. Well,
sure they did, and and a lot of them just
that they can't bring it upon themselves. They even go
out there and fish it. But does that mean it's

(26:43):
going to rebound. Maybe not. There's other people that come
in here and fish. Maybe they don't know there is here,
But every time a person moves in, he doesn't come
in with one pot, he comes into a hundred and
some of them have a d permit, our license so
even by that, even by coming in and experimenting and

(27:04):
stuff like that, you're still catching fish and removing them
out that are fully eggs. So how do you describe
the area where shrimp? How do you describe area where
you like to set for shrimp? Well, like, what are
they looking for? Because it just seems almost kind of arbitrary.
I'm sure it's not. I find the areas that I
like the UH set by pots. M hmm. You could

(27:31):
see on your sounder the colors and whether colors are
darker or more color there that anser bottom with a
denser bottom. That seems to me that you have better

(27:52):
success with that situation. And if there's no color in
there are very little and you can see a little.
But I find that to be a real muddy bottom.
And I've brought some pots up after setting there, you know,
and it just covered with that claygy type mud and

(28:14):
I had rocks up on top of it everything, And
I don't know what was going on. Rocks on top
of the trap rocks, I mean mud type rocks, and
I think probably when I was pulling it, maybe it
shoveled some up. But that tells me then UH bottom
is pretty deep in that mud. Yeah, and maybe that's

(28:37):
the place where they spun. I don't know. But you
don't have a real success rate of catch there because
of that. And I know that when I bring my
pot up that their mud really has a bad spill
with phosphors. Bad spill. So explain what you do, like

(28:58):
when you catch the octopus? How do you how you
prepare the octopus? And I know that you turned that
when you catch me, you turn his head inside out,
turned the mantle inside out. Well that's part of part
of how you kill him. That I mean, I like
to remove the mantle as soon as possible. And and

(29:19):
you don't cut that meat up. I do, and I
have and I will, yes, But for the UH smoke
docks octopus in the jar just tend to use the tentacles,
which makes better texture everything everything down. So when I

(29:44):
when I UH, when I get that uh I put
in a bucket, you can still see even with the
head off, that tentacles are moving around. They're still trying
to crawl out of the bucket. So so after I
get back, let's say, after I get back, then what
I do is I cut away each tentacle and then

(30:08):
with a suction cups still on and stuff like that.
Put on my sink and then I take the hide off.
After I get the hide off, how you do that?
Boil it off or skin it off? I skin it off.
And I found that if you take and he has
a stainless steel sink there, and if it's not been
frozen or cool too much, you could put the suction

(30:30):
cups on there is they stick to the side, so
then you can take your other hand and pull that
hide and it stretches out quite a way. So you
do that in at same time you sit down there
and cut your with your knife all the way down.
It removes pretty easy. It doesn't remove everything but yet

(30:53):
because you have a little bit around tentacles. But I
don't want to remove that because are the suction cups.
I don't want to rem me with that because I
don't want to lose any of the suction cups. That's
all part of that good part. Good part. You know,
skin each arm out, skin each other arms right be
four ft long, three ft long, right might be, but

(31:15):
it doesn't matter on the size or anything like that.
It's just I want to get the skin off of it,
hied off as much as I can. Then I put
it into uh boil and water, and I bring it
back to a roll boil, and I'm talking vigorous roll boil,

(31:37):
and allow that to boil away and keep it in
there for about thirty minutes. And any other fish you
do this too, it's gonna tough in it or or
fault have it fall apart eventually one or the other.
But tasty well on on the octopus there actually it

(32:00):
tenderizes it. So after that then I take it out
and then it's the time that I cut him up
into the size pieces I want. And then then we
go to a brine, and I use a dry brine.
It's four parts brown sugar to one part salt. I

(32:20):
don't want to use a lot of salt in there
because the octopus meat really draws a salt out faster
than any the sugar. So I go a four to
one brine. And then once that's brian enough, which doesn't

(32:41):
take very long, and the pieces not the whole arm,
but you gotta cut up. I gotta cut up there
already hot dog for a little kid, right, and and
that's the pieces that are going to go into the jar.
So it's already to go into the jar after smoking.
But I mean, so once you're doing that, then then

(33:03):
we take them out, And I say, we a wife.
My wife is either doing it or assisted me in
doing it, and uh, she is getting pretty good at it,
probably better than me. You know what, ladies are good cooks. Well,
it's true, not yours. And well you got a modern

(33:26):
I live in a modern family, man, you do, Yannie
lives in the modern family. I know. I think your
brother does to that he does in a modern family,
cooks more in your family. Honest, you do the most
to my wife, and I yeah, I do. Did you
know that that's how she is now around? How would
I know that? I don't know, just talking to guys like, well, yeah,

(33:49):
but I've I've noticed. I've noticed a little bit with
your brother when I whenever I travel North, I go
out for does their place for dinner, And yeah, he's
doing something, he's doing the cooking. But I didn't know
that was all the time. Constantly more and more dudes,
like more and more dudes nowadays, especially guys I know

(34:11):
the hunt, Um, they always cook. So do you think
do you think that it's the woman that is becoming
more not lazy. I wanted lazy. No, no, I wouldn't.

(34:31):
I wouldn't say lazy, I would say smarter. I know
what it is. Man, Well, I don't know. I I
could cook, and I have from time to time, and
it's probably rare that I do, but sometimes I do. Um,

(34:57):
but I interrupted you to talk about the problem with
another problem. Actually I'm joking. I prefer it that way.
I like to cook. Uh. So you got the octopus smoked, Well,
I got talked pus section and Brian. So I take
it out of Brian and I wash it off, so
I get all of the Brian that's attached to it

(35:20):
off and then from there then I go out, I
put it on my smoking racks and I let it
tack up, become tacky. That's to me, that's the most
important part of smoking than any other of your brianing

(35:42):
or what type of what type of would you're going
to use the smoke? It's a muss. You have what's
the name of that that the pelical pelical form pelical.
So once that's for him, then you can fire up
your smoker and get it going. And we don't because

(36:03):
it's going to be jarred. You don't want to overspoke
it because the jarring process enhances the intensity of the smoke.
So just by doing a real light smoke, Uh, you're

(36:26):
not trying to cook it there because you already boiled it.
It's already safe to eat, right, that's right, it's it's
safe to eat. And but you don't want to overspoke it.
It's it's a must because even your salmon, you have
to be real careful because it might look good, it
might be good to eat then, but when you go

(36:47):
to put it in the jars in through a pressure cooking,
it tends to really enhance that smoke flavor. And it
might even coming out there looking a little bit different,
a little bit more dark than you would like to see,

(37:09):
and it might be coming out a little bit more
dry than you would like to have. You think, in
a jar and stuff like that wouldn't be dry. But
I've had some come out, uh in a less desirable condition.
And well that's one of the weird that knows when
you're smoking stuff, like when you smoke, when you smoking
jar salmon, we're seeing jar the time about putting in

(37:31):
you like mason jars or curve it, you know what
it It really doesn't matter anymore. Now. I used to
like U or Bell Ball. Oh h yeah, I know.
I used to like I like the ball because they
had a different membrane on their ceiling jar to the

(37:55):
tops um then they the cur did and the cur
had more like a paper uh deal gasket like to
seal the product. And I just didn't It didn't feel
comfortable with me. So but now they're all now they're
more of the same. I think they're all they're running

(38:17):
all that same type rubberized membrane in there, so it's
more safe. I think that way. Well, they say, is
what North when you do when you smoked octopus, and
when you smoke some of your salmon and jar it,
you have like a like there's air in the jar,
not air, but there's a vacuum. I mean, it's not
full of liquid. So you could take your smoke doctopus

(38:40):
and rattle that ship around like a like a rattle
inside there. Yes, and you don't need any liquid in there.
And if that's one thing good about the jar. And
I started using jars, and it was by accident. I
used to use cans, steel cans, steel cans, and then
had to go through and use the tour can seiler. Yeah,

(39:03):
my brother Danny has on those few. I ran out,
I ran low on cans one time and I still
had some fish, so I had some jars and lids
and I put them in there and I pressure cooked
him in the same batch, mixed them, intermixed them, put
them in there, run them through it. But I noticed

(39:26):
something that I probably would never have noticed because of
that because now it's the same heat, the same length
of time, everything, but the product came out of the
jar a lot better than out of the camp. And
when I seen that, I opened up can in a jar. Yeah,

(39:51):
and I put him out and it's it was obviously different,
a different texture, different flavor, everything, and the jars were
a lot better. So I used so I started, Yeah,
I went and I switched to it now. Also, the

(40:14):
jar is what they call South Anny, and a lot
of people don't realize it. On that can sealer, you
have the numbers. So what you're supposed to do as
you go and you set that uh numbering sequence there,
run your can and seal it to the first portion

(40:37):
to the number two, take it out so aside, do
the next one. Now you have to back it up
to one again and do that and keep on doing
this until you get enough. Then you run it through
your pressure cooker for about and reach your ten pound
pressure uh and bring it up for about oh maybe

(41:02):
ten minutes. Then shut your pressure cooker down, take those
cans out. Now you have to handle them when they're hot.
Then you start from the number two infinny ceiling them.
That's how that works. That's how it's supposed to work.
Nobody uses that, nobody understands why. But that's part of

(41:23):
the venting process. In other words, if you run your
seiler through number one and then run on to number two,
you're not allowing that that canned event properly. So that's
why they do it that way. That's why it's recommended
that way. So on a jar it's automatic itself any

(41:44):
and that's a lot of reason why it's a better product.
And I took one down to one of the local
fish processing processing plants and catch again one of my
jars down glass jar that was full salmon, sam you know,
sock in it. And I asked, a god, did you
catch sky here? Are there any runs around here? So

(42:08):
runs on the island there are, yes, there are several
in various states of whether they're out fished or over
fished and stuff. And most of your streams, mostly all
the stream sky streams are taken a hit. They have

(42:28):
taken a hit. Yeah, it's they they really need. They're
in bad need of some type of enhancement program or
back off from the commercial fisheries. I think are our
fisheries in Alaska. And I'm getting off the subject again.

(42:49):
It's tough to stay on it, but I'll bring you back. Well.
Our fishery in Alaska, the border fish. The court ruled
year about nineteen I think it was eighty something a
D four maybe sometime in that area. That the Board

(43:10):
of Fish has also been authority since that ruling came down.
The Board of Fish does not have to listen to biologists.
So if the biologists comes out and say, don't open this,
it's gonna hurt and damage that resource, they don't have
to listen to them. And I have to ask because

(43:34):
a bunch of all their interests all have their ear
well they might be like serving other interests. Yeah whatever, No, no,
that's true, and uh, and I think that's what happened.
Another important thing about this is that they have one
Board a Fish in Alaska and it will meet down

(43:59):
in Southeast Alaska once every three years. So you have
three regions, so you have the Western, Central, and Southeast.
So at any given time, and this is this is
the problem. At any given time, anybody that the majority

(44:22):
of the people voting on open opening or a closure
of a fish season, they're not stakeholders, so it's easy
for them to say, well, it's not gonna affect me. Yeah,
go ahead and open it. I'll vote the way you

(44:44):
want me to. And that I think is the worst
thing we have going for us. So I've made suggestions
on all levels of government to do away with this
here statewide board of Fish and go regional. Have a
Board of Fish just for the Southeast region. That way,

(45:06):
you have people that have a stake in it, and
everybody local expertise, local expertise, local knowledge, and they have
a stake in it. And not only that, if they
make the bad decision, they can't blame it on somebody
up north, you know, and maybe they'll make a better
decision that way. But when you have two thirds of

(45:30):
that board voting on it that aren't even from the area,
it's easy for them to say yeah, but they voted
on it. Yeah. See I had nothing to say about it.
It wasn't me in other words, So yeah, and I'd
like to get that fixed. So we're going to go

(45:51):
back to wet again. I want, so I bring my
your canna sok salmon. I bought my cannasake salmon to
the local. You caught and smoked yourself, caught and can yourself,
that's crewe. Yeah, And it wasn't in a jar. And
I was curious. And there's a way. They have a
method in there to check at any given time the

(46:13):
pressure in a camp or the suction in the camp.
I think they call it the mercury pressure. So I
asked the fella there if he could test us. He
sall yeah, yeah, and he says, did you do this
at home? Yes? Well, and then he went through a
big speech. He says, well, I'll tell you what do

(46:35):
you guys, we have special equipment here, and our equipment
is that just before that can is sealed, we have
a vacuum that vacuums out all the air. So we'll
get nine pounds of mercury pressure in a camp and
that's all you're gonna get is about three pounds maybe

(46:56):
at the most three and a half. I says, okay,
could you check mine though? Yeah, So you went in
and checked it, put the pin in, you know, into
the lid, and it went right away to twenty nine
mercury and which is three times? What is this? What

(47:22):
theirs is? And he was puzzled. You did this at home?
And I said, yeah, amazing, we want to get nine
pounds and you got twenty What is what? Why is
it more pounds? You just got it because I, like
I said, and I'll reiterate, the jarring method is self vending.

(47:45):
So when it's self vending, it gets that to a
precise vending thing. It's not a guess. It's not a
vacuumine out. It's actually in there, in it it. As
it heats, it really eases all the air in there,
and then when it collapses and seals, it's perfect. It's yeah,

(48:07):
it's as well as you're going to get vented. Did
you ever jar Do you ever? Uh? Jar halbot? Canon
jar Helbot? I've canned and jarred both helibate, Yes, now
you okay, you've always fish halibut m hmm. Yeah. However,

(48:28):
did you call your first Albert when I caught my
first halibut, I think I was about eight eight and
a half something like that maybe, um, yeah, I just
was eight. Um. So I was down at New England
fish docks. I was down there to cut halibate cheeks.

(48:51):
And let me explain that what that means, why you
were doing that and what that means. Well, I went
down to cut helibate cheeks so I could just sell
them to the rest round. So we used to go
down there and cut about twenty pounds of alibut cheeks
to day and then go around the restaurants and sell
it to them for fifty cents a pound. And they
are a tickle pink with it because they get number one.

(49:11):
They get it delivered, it's very fresh, and the price
was right in the cannary. They weren't using the cheeks
at that time. No, they were not, So you can
just go and dude didn't care. You just dig through
their pile fish carcasses and caught the cheeks out right.
And I don't I think to this day they're not
using them. I think to this day they're not not.

(49:35):
I can't be certain of that, but I know back
when I was longlining that they wouldn't pay you for
the head. So when they wait, wager hallibit, they removed
the head. So they're actually not buying the head from you.
So the head belongs to you. They leave the collar
around the fish, but caught it from the gilt cover

(49:55):
forward right right, and and so that head really, uh,
it belongs to you. And after I'm done, I might
have a couple of toads are full of heads. So
I just alert somebody and that I talked to the
VFW to go down there and have them cut the
alibut cheeks and stuff like that, and maybe they could.
When you were long lining, you do that right now,

(50:17):
This is when I was long lining. But when you
were a kid, you'd go down and cut the cheeks out.
How many pounds did you cut out? Twenty pounds a day? Uh,
that's how long did that take? Well, it didn't take long.
I mean we didn't have the best knives either, but
you know, so I I'd bring a pairing knife from
home and get down there and get it done, and

(50:41):
then you make your rounds to the restaurants to catch
can Then we started down and make a rounds and
most of the time we sold them out, what would
you get for fifty cents a pound? So I make
ten dollars a day. What did you do with the money. Well,
that's another thing there. I bring it to where my

(51:01):
mother charge their groceries, and I just walked in there
and give him ten bucks. Stay here. But this is
on my mom's accun. I used to bring it. I
used to bring it home. I used to bring it
home to my mother. And that was back when bingo started.

(51:23):
You know bingo? Yeah, you know Bengo. Yeah. And the
funny thing about that is that Bingo was first introduced
in the catch can by the churches two so to
help them raise funds, and so it started out one
day a week, and then another church will bring it on,

(51:45):
so there's two days a week. Then another church it's
three days a week, and then somebody else would want
to bring it on, and they'd have Bengo and catch
Can six days a week. And when they start that Bengo,
it's at seven clock it starts. But my mother and
everybody else would say, no, no, I want to get
the best seat, and I want to go down and

(52:07):
get the best cards, because they picked her own cards
and they like combination numbers on our cards, so they
get down here a good hour ahead of time, so
they're leaving right when dinner should be. So the church
has helped remove the family from a home y, you know.

(52:29):
And and that upset me a little bit there, because
one time a week is not bad, but turned into five,
six times a week, it's bad. And then my mother
was really stretching it to pay her charge building at
the deal, and I heard her, oh, I don't know

(52:50):
how I'm going to do this. But everything that I got,
every nickel diamond I could scrounge up or whatever I
used bring home here. Well, it wasn't doing me any good.
I was just supplying her habit to go to Bingo.
So I'm not talking down on my mother, but that

(53:12):
was I could see where it was a problem, and
I really did. He dearly loved my mother and she
was the best lay lady on earth. But I realized
that I got to do something different, so I started
bringing home. I just go down to the grocery store.
I knew the owner and I trusted him. Of course,

(53:34):
there was no no receipts had given. I didn't even
know what a receipt should have been here but it
saw my mom's account and I had had it. He'd yeah,
he passed away when I, uh, when I was seven,
and there were six of us, so it was tough
uh time. And but my mother it was also tough,

(54:03):
and uh she kept the house together for the most part.
You know, that's a lot. That's a lot to put
on someone. It's a lot, yeah, and we I think
we were very blessed and fortunate that my stepfather came
along and they fell in love and got married and
they had one other child after that. But that's that's

(54:26):
a lot of burden, you know. I mean, it's something
else you get married, but get married with six kids already.
A lot of guys were in the art direction, man,
I know. So anyway it worked out, it worked out good.
And uh, I've I've been through and involved in fishing
and stuff like that for a long time and I

(54:49):
can remember talk about that. Hell but then when you
were caught in cheeks, oh yeah, So I was looking around.
I wanted to go ahead and put a line down
over the doctor. So I started looking around the New
England cantry for a hook, and I was finding all
the hooks. Most of the hooks they didn't have a

(55:13):
a circle in them like hook sports hooks to. These
were all flat and that's how they tied them on to.
Uh yeah, there's no eye in the hook. There was
no eye. And I got to like smell it on there, right,
And I was young, and I didn't know anything about that.
I knew how to operate a hook, you know, with

(55:34):
a circle in it, tying out there, but that I didn't.
I couldn't figure it out. So eventually I looked around
and I found woman was already tied and I tied
a knot in that, and then I found some other line,
uh long enough to wear it will go down and
just right on the bottom off the dock of the cantry,

(55:58):
off the dock of the can Henry. I wasn't thinking.
I mean, so I'm down there and I tied it
off on a big cleat and they had these big
boat cleats. So I tied it off air went and
cut the aliba cheeks and everything like that. And when
I was done and went back, I grabbed that line
and something heavy on it and I started pulling it

(56:19):
and started jerking back and my brother was with me,
and we pulled that thing to the surface and I said,
that is too big. Now I'm looking down at this
and it's a good forty ft drop from the dock
down to the water. So there's no way are we
going to get this halibit, which, as near as I
can remember, I mean from what I know, it was

(56:45):
probably a two pound hello, So there's no way. So
I let it go back down and I ran and
I found the superintendent and I said, hey, I got
a big hell of it online down here, and I
don't know what I'm gonna do to get it. I mean,
can you help us? So he went down there and

(57:07):
we brought it up, and he's seen how big it was,
so whoa wait a minute, you know, So he goes
rigs up one of these uh totes they had a rope,
toote and stuff, and put it down. This was made
out of wood and but big enough to handle that
hell but for sure. And he had a big crane
to do this with, you know, and everything. So that's

(57:28):
how we did it, and then we brought it back up.
He's operating that and he has a dip down in
such a way so that when we got up we
could just pull it and slide it right into it
and it landed in there and he brought it up.
I can't I can't tell you. I can't remember how
much I got for the hell a but but that's
the first fish I sold. There wasn't a bunch of

(57:50):
money though, well it was, and I can't I can't
remember how much. Okay, so but it seems to me
like it was maybe twenty But that's that's a lot
of money for me. For me anyway, So that was
a good day. I had by ten dollars and for

(58:11):
the cheeks and plus the hellibit deal. But that was good.
And what when did you start? Like, because you did
it several seasons of commercial halibut fishing? Right, I started
there Joan and I bought they also uh in uh

(58:31):
and that was when I went out trolling and then
also long trolling for salmon. Right, well, how does the
long line? How's the halibut long line work? Like? How's
the commercial halibut fishery work? I mean just the mechanics
that catching the fish? Well, like how would you guys
get him? You know, like just like the actual fishing
part of it. We had we were running snap on gear.

(58:57):
It's a skate I had eighteen skates. Each skate i'd say,
is a thousand feet long. And how many hooks you
clip on that thing, It depends on how close you
want to clip them on. But for the most part,
I it slefts my mind. How many purp there's an

(59:20):
awful lot of hooks. And then you let us soak,
you try to pick go back. You set that thing
down like you got the anchor, like you're running on
the bottom, it's not hanging suspended, right, anchor on the bottom.
Then a thousand feet of line with hooks, another anchor
on the other end, and then a line goes out
to your booty. Actually, when you run on my run,
about maybe six or seven skates skates all in one rowe.

(59:47):
So you have six or seven thousand feet of hooks
down there over a mile, all right, at what depth?
The whole variety of depths? Well, actually, yeah, it's gonna
be a whole variety of depths speak stretch that long.
It's all the same. Well, you'd be surprised sometimes out
there there there are some of them like that. But
for the most part, yeah, Well you can bait for

(01:00:12):
with several things. Um I I wish we could bait
with salmon. But and maybe some people do. Now you
could buy it. You could buy salmon if you could
get it, you know, I mean there are certain people
that have the ability to get salmon. There's other people,

(01:00:33):
you know. They have to settle for herring. You settle
for hearing. You have to brian it because they just
picked that ship or off the hook. Yeah, that's right.
And then then then you can get squid. What does
it brine? Do you know, Harry, We've been using their brine.
Like I take the herring out, you know, when you

(01:00:54):
buy them in the box or buy them in those
little trades. I take them out for donald layer. Are
you cream salt or rock salt? Put down a layer herring? Salt?
Herring salt? Herring? Don't? I don't think it messes. I mean,
they still smell nice, they're still oily, but they just
don't rot as fast. Man. They stay really nice, and
they get leathery after a while, but they still I
don't think. I mean, I'm not a alibet, but in

(01:01:18):
my opinion, I think even by salting them, they fish better.
Also because what it does, it concentrates, it shrinks it down,
takes some moisture out of it and yet more oilier.
So they really said oil off more than that. Yeah,
And then of course you know you get a hit
on a smaller fish and stuff on an area's not

(01:01:38):
scripting your bait off as fast. But so and which
is something that you want them? So you could not
you like, you didn't were able to use just salmon
bellies or flames cut up into strips. You guys, you squid,
you could, you could. You could use that, like I say,
if you get there at the right time and stuff.

(01:01:59):
But I wasn't moxy enough to a lot of the guys,
A lot of the guys that fish at our sayers themselves.
So they'd go out at the end of the season,
they'd get the best of the chum they could, and
they would freeze their own bait. Yeah, so they'd have
their own uh freeze locker at the at at the

(01:02:25):
cool stories or whatever. And these are the guys that
have been in it for a long time and they
know and they're they're fishing big time other fisheries. So
it's what you know. So you were using primarily herring
and squid, yeah, primarily, But that's at times I could

(01:02:45):
find and locate some plibate are not hell but excuse
me salmon, but it's it's uh, it's something that you
had to really look for and get ahead of time.
And of course, where am I gonna freeze a bunch

(01:03:08):
of this bait? You know, because you need a huge volume.
I'm a huge volume at bait. You know, hundreds of
hooks and thousands of hooks. Yeah, so you run that
thing out and you'd get all those hooks laying along
the bottom at what from what depth? To what depth? Well?

(01:03:28):
I like to write right around a hundred fathoms six
ft of water? Yeah, it is your fish way deeper
than sport fisherman or fishing for the both part, for
the most part, Yeah, I don't I don't know. And
we fish halibut half that depth or even a third. Yeah. Yeah,

(01:03:51):
Well your reels probably don't have enough line to get
down and it's just get way issues and current issues
and you know, your bolts over one place and your
apples ds away because the current. So how long would
you let that thing soaked in? You don't want to
her for rule of thumb, you don't want to let
us soak any more than six hours because the sea lights. Yeah,

(01:04:14):
you have sea lice problems. And if you get too
much sea life lice in there, you're gonna have an
issue that it's going to be no more number one grade,
it's going to meet the number two. And the prices
really dropped drastically if they see those lights on the fish. Yeah,
And I went in. I went in to deliver my

(01:04:36):
load one time and I went up and the sky here,
so that's number two. So I grabbed it. I got
my flight knife out and I played the thing out
and everything and laid that flash down there and says,

(01:04:58):
where why is this number two? Well, let's around the
outer fins there it's eating away. Do you sell those fins? Yeah? No,
Well again, why is this number two? So he had
to give me number number one price? But what he

(01:05:20):
didn't give me a number one price on? I said, okay, fine,
I'll bring it back down the boat. Then, oh, you're
not gonna sell it? And I said no, I'd rather
give it away, didn't get screwed by you. I'd feel better.
So that's what that's what I would do. Ye know,

(01:05:44):
how many like when you pull it up, how many
helbet might be on there? Again? How many might you
deal with in a day m hm oh maybe roughly
around maybe individual fish, right, and and then that day

(01:06:09):
in a day, you're going to say in a day,
but we have a twenty four hour open and we're
fishing around the clock, or you might only get twenty
four hours to do it. Well, that's what it was.
They had some some openings were forty eight hours, but
most of most of the last ones were twenty four
Your whole season, yeah, well twice a year twenty four

(01:06:31):
let's put it that way. But yes, and you can
keep a boat and maintain a boat, and maintain a
license and maintain all the gear in order to fish
forts Well again you're you're you're also fishing your boat
is fishing to other fisheries, okay, but for the most part, no,
you wouldn't be able to and if you're only fishing

(01:06:53):
long line in hall of it because the season is
too too short. So they had you come in and
go and it just I don't know who was doing
the selection as to what day the opening would be,
but whoever that was was very accurate on picking it

(01:07:16):
the worst possible time of the year because of the weather.
So the last Haliban opening that we had that I
fished and the last one we that was pad, I
mean they quit after that went to I f Q.

(01:07:37):
I was fishing uh west side of Forest dr Island,
and the both Canadian US weather said that I was
blown thirty five knots when we put uh later a gear.
But we did it because both Canadian and US said

(01:07:57):
that the wind was supposed to subside. I had and
dropped back. Well, it didn't increased. It went up to
fifty and which made it almost impossible to get out
there and fish. I mean fifty knots twenty ft seas
you know it's but but yet yeah, I feel you

(01:08:19):
have to. But while we're out there, one of my
deck hands actually I popped the hydraulllet cles and when
that happens, your deck becomes extremely unsafe and and slippery,
so because it's hydraulic fluid, right, So I just pulled

(01:08:40):
everybody into the wheelhouse and we went in into the
lee of the Forest R Island there and cleaned tried
to clean that up and fix the hydraullt holes, but
tried to clean the deck up. I mean, we've done
a pretty good job on it. But while we were
out there. The one guy them my crew members slipped

(01:09:01):
and said he heard his back and he didn't really
look really really good. I mean he had some discomfort,
it was obvious and his pulse. So got a hold
of the coast guard, let them know, and they came

(01:09:22):
down to the island with the plane tree and I
could see him there. But they wouldn't get within a
mile of the island. They're afraid of the rocks or
something like that. But I tried to explain to him,
he comes straight in, you bring that ship right into
me if you want. But they didn't want to do it.
So they launched a hard bottom rubber dinghy and I

(01:09:45):
cast him when they come up because during the blow
and stuff like that, I ripped off a rubb rail
on the starboard side of my vessel, so there was
some exposed uh screws that were in there, and stuf
off and I told him, you come up on my
starboard side, you're gonna get a whole pope poked in
your boat. And I said, come onto my port side.

(01:10:09):
What do they do? They come on my starboard side
and it's rocking and rolling out there, and there they
brought out their corman or whoever he was. But he
done some check in and it was his idea that
they were going to go and air meta acam just

(01:10:33):
sit you And I says, okay, but you're not going
to take him in that hard bottomed skiff for you.
And they sees back to your boat with a bad
back or damaged back, injured back. Oh no, we'll do
that nice as now I could take the all soul
going to lee of the your ship, then we do

(01:10:56):
the transfer in the lee. Means your ship doesn't want
to come here in here to get into the lee
of the island. So anyway, I couldn't talk him out
of that. And uh so that's what they did, and
they ever met a act um off. All this time
it was taken. I was having to be laid up

(01:11:17):
and stuff. And so by that time we're done there,
and I went out and I had just enough time
to get all my gear pulled in and I didn't
have enough time to reset, because yeah, it was the
whole day all right, And I was right down. I
mean I went right down to the wire. I get

(01:11:40):
my last skate on board. I mean it was close,
because they're pretty sticklish about that. And if you're flying
over and you're still pulling gear. After that's down, they'll
they'll side you. Is that your last year doing it?
That was my last year doing it, and all of
the years and I fished, they didn't count that towards

(01:12:04):
an i f Q. In fact, I think they stopped counting.
That's the quota system, right, that's I uh, individual fishing data,
so like just for listeners, like rather than a lot
of fisheries have gone to this. They used to have
these gang busters seasons where they opened it for some

(01:12:25):
set time, like Ron saying regardless of whether if you
want to make a play, you gotta go out and
do it when they say they go do it later.
They came up with a system, much safer system. I'm
sure there's cons to it, but one of the pros
is much safer because you'll tell a vessel it's licensed

(01:12:45):
what he's allowed to catch, and he's more at his
leisure to catch it. Let me know another important faction
to that too is when they went to this system,
I normally fished up through at Coronation Island. When they
went to the individual quota. No before that, that was

(01:13:07):
my normal spot. The only reason why I went to
Forester Island. As my brother Ivan, he was on board
and he says, we gotta try that, we gotta go
out there. It's gonna be good. Buh. Well it wasn't.
But for the most part, I fished up there at
Coronation Island. And it's my belief that when they went

(01:13:32):
to the individual quota system, they use your fish tickets
to establish amount of quota you're gonna get, okay, and
each fish ticket also puts down what area you got
your fish from, So most of the guys would go

(01:13:52):
to their same area over and over. They're they're comfortable
that way because they know by going to new areas
and stuff like that, you can get into all kinds
of problems and stuff like that, not not knowing that
there is coral trees down there and you're gonna damage
and ruin a lot of gear and may possibly lose them.

(01:14:15):
So it's good that you go back to your same
area because you know, okay, it's free of coral, and
the halibut are there and uh several things and not
a lot of by catch. So that's that's what you
gotta watch for. Two. You know, I mean, the only

(01:14:37):
allows to keep like ten percent by catch on your
yellow eye or your link d So if you get
into a lot of them when you first start, how
much are you going to keep? You know, so you
have to discard it all right, because you don't know.

(01:14:59):
I mean they have this here magic number, you know,
and back then, back then, they didn't have the safeguards
or a way of or or a procedure or or
a law stating that. Okay, now I think they have
to go ahead and at least bring him back down
or to have a way of removing the air of

(01:15:22):
yellow eyes stomach so that has has survivor ability after
being cut drastically increased. So like uh, yellow eye, yellow eye,
rock fish and rock fish along with some other species
don't have a good way of regulating for pressure. So

(01:15:42):
when you're fishing in even of water two of water,
and you catch a yellow eye and their bottom fish
and you crank them up in a hurry to the surface,
by the time he gets the surface, he's cashed out.
I mean he's got like his stomach hanging out of
his mouth because there's swim bladder erupts with the alleviation
of pressure and shoves it out of their mouth. For

(01:16:06):
that reason, you're not supposed to size grade uh rock fish.
You're not supposed to You're not allowed to be like, oh,
I'll hang on to him and keep or I'll throw
him back and keep fishing, because the thinking is you're
gonna kill the thing. For a long time, people would
take a needle and and try to puncture that swim bladder,

(01:16:26):
and you can do it if done right, you can
do it and let the pressure out and put the
fish back. But people tend to puncture the stomach, which
is fatal for the fish. So now there's these released
devices we've been messing around with him where you pull
that fish up, you put this release device on there
and send that something gun right back to the bottom.
And apparently you have very high success survivor raids doing that.

(01:16:50):
But still even with that, you can't size grade rock fish.
Like if you catch one and you're gonna continue fishing
rock fish, that fish goes in the boat. You don't
throwing back and continue to fish. I think you're noting
too yellow eye. As a non resident. I'm allowed too
yellow eye annually one a day to annually. But you
guys would get big hauls of them. But in a

(01:17:13):
commercial deal, and I was fishing up there and I
got in close too close to the rock one time,
big mistake, and I got a massive amount a yellow
eye and link good. So I moved away from there
fast because I didn't like what I was seeing. You know,

(01:17:34):
I mean, you're discarding, you have discarded back and they're
all floating. Some of them for whatever reason, uh could
go back down, but for the most part they're just
sitting there floating till they're done or tell some critters
get them or eagle or whatever. But I didn't feel

(01:17:54):
good about that, so I'd move off of it, avoid
that area as much as possible. But um as I
knew what I was catching and stuff like that, then
I felt comfortable with keeping them on board so that
I don't don't go over that ten percent because when
you go over it then they could find you, and

(01:18:15):
the finds a pretty steep and uh you had you
had a lot of people viewing this uh fishery, so
that when I go into the port and I'm eventually
get under the hoist to be offloaded, then they'd have

(01:18:37):
somebody from using the coast guard or somebody in there
with ah. You know that with a type deal where
they use the measure of your feet when you go
get a new pair of shoes. Well, they had that
set up, and they had it set up at thirty
two inches and under ideal conditions and stuff like that

(01:18:58):
that pull it through. Well with that halibit didn't meet that,
then you're fine. So also you're you're supposed to turn
out any how, but under two is supposed to be
out with the cap on the top end for egg
bearing females, like we're allowed to keep three pound halibit.
You were allowed to keep them at back then. Um

(01:19:18):
and right now, I've been out so long, I don't know,
I don't know what what what their limit is on
the high end, but this, uh the system here when
they went when when they go in they closely you know,

(01:19:39):
I mean like say you're sixteenth of an inch under
you know they'll get you. But so I just put
a mark on it thirty two and a quarter. Oh yeah,
you know. I mean, let's let's face it, I'm not
gonna I'm not gonna waste that. Your your tossed and

(01:20:00):
you're turning. You don't have the best light. You've been
up for already maybe forty hours, you know, without sleep
because you have that baiting getting ready going fishing, so
you don't have a lot of things in your favor

(01:20:20):
for getting it right or very accurate. So to be
on the safe side, they just marked a quarter inch
over um right, and they do they closely do that.
I mean they'll sit down there and have two or
three people there with her to tow measuring device. And

(01:20:47):
so how many years did you do that for? I
just I just did it for the three three four years.
Make money? You did? You made money, but you didn't
you didn't get rich. I mean you made it. You

(01:21:09):
Let's put it this way. I always made expenses. But
uh and even on that trip that I only had
one pull, you know, but that again was you know,
it happened. So when you went when you quit doing
that and you went back to just fishing and halb
but with the rod and real did it feel funny?

(01:21:31):
Like did it feel like because here you are catching
hundreds of halbitt and also you're back out just a
guy catching halbit for his own freezer. No, it didn't
feel funny because I was doing that before I went
long lining, you know, So I've always I've always fisted
rod and reel, you know. So yeah, it was easy
to get back into it that way. But did you

(01:21:54):
miss the commercial stuff for you just done with it? No?
At times they did, but they had it so goofed up.
I don't, you know. I didn't miss probably as much
as I would have if everything was going rosy and fine.
But going out there and they're there, they're fishery. You know,
though the fish the Halibate is monitored and controlled under treaty.

(01:22:24):
So you have a treaty with Canada and the United
States on that on the Halibu that is caught within
their waters, right within their water and our so, uh,
we don't have to say over what the season is

(01:22:44):
going to be or anything like that. I mean, you
could probably put in a suggestion to the North Pacific
Fisheries Management or the Halibate Commission. But how far that
is that going to go? You know, how many years
did you do salmon? For? It's about about the same
a little longer, um. But I seen Handwright do on

(01:23:06):
the wall. Uh things well with regards to the price
that I was getting at the h cold storage or
the Canaries for hooks not nets. You're trolling salmon, right,
But but you're you're sitting down there and they're giving

(01:23:30):
the same price over and over and over again. The
price never seemed to fluxuate very much. It did at
the beginning of season, and if you were, if you
were fishing winter kings, the prices were up then. And
I I never did go up travel I was I
was going to try to go up to sit and

(01:23:50):
fish that out of there for winter kings because of
the price, you get a better price, or you get
a more fairer price. And I don't to this day,
I wonder why it didn't follow through. Why why shouldn't
there be a good price for king salmon all season?
And you fish kings around here? You fish kings around
here instead around Yeah, around Prince Welles Island. You know,

(01:24:14):
the West coast was my favorite spot for kings. That's
where I done most of my fishing. How was the season?
How many days a year were you doing at? Well?
The kings season fluctuated, Uh for the amount that was allocated,
and UH it varied. It went went between two days
to five days opening season, um, and then after that

(01:24:45):
that would close down. You'd go ahead and fish coho
for a while. Even that would close down for a
short period of time in August. You know. So you
had your various fishings, but the one thing that was
discouraged and to me is that all your gear prices,

(01:25:06):
your fuel prices, your oils prices, your hydraulic fluids, all
your part prices, everything was always going up, always going
up with costs of living, everything like that. It increased
moving up, but your salmon never seemed to increase that
much that fast. So it was costing the fisherman. Uh

(01:25:35):
you were losing a lot by that because of the
prices for the fish that you were getting. It was
remaining at a certain level, the same level. And uh
so ices. Now this isn't for me. I just I'm
not one that I like to be taking advantage of.

(01:25:55):
So I'm not going to hang in there allow it
to happen. You know. Um it's just me. Did you
buy the l sold just for those that purpose to
do hel but and do salmon? That's correct. Yes, I
got into it. I always wanted to go back and
do try commercial and uh I did you know I

(01:26:17):
I started commercial fishing with my grandfather yea, when I
was about eight. And uh he always fished the West
coast and he was always the first one out last
one in. So I went out there and he showed
me how to gil and got him and ice him

(01:26:39):
and everything. That was my job. And it was a hot,
hot day then, I mean the time of year. I
was like, sort of like what we we've we've had
here this summer hard to a breeze and it's down
there and you're out there getting redouble reflection from the
water up in your it, and it really whammed with that.

(01:27:02):
And I'd go down below after up there getting them
and gilling them and gutting them and getting enough, and
then I go down below the ice m and as
I was down below there, it's just nice and cool, pleasant.
And when I was down there, I noticed three or
four coils of line back in the back underneath the

(01:27:24):
poop deck there, and I said, that's uh, it looks
almost like a hammock. I figured, you know, So I
hopped up there. I hopped up there and lay down
and see how comfortable it was. Well, I fell asleep,
and the fish starts stacking up. My grandfathers so he

(01:27:45):
went and looked down on the fish hoold. He didn't
see me there, so I figured I was in the forecastles.
So he went down the foecastle I wasn't there, came
back yellowed out of the fishhold. I didn't answer, so
he put the dreaded call out to the fleet that
had fallen over. Of course, I don't know how much
of the fleet was after looking for me and stuff,

(01:28:06):
but I'm pretty sure a lot of them were. And
I'm all the time I was down there sleeping, And
to this day, I could not tell you how long
I was asleep down here, but I could say one thing.
When I did come up out of the down blowing hold,
my grandfather was coming out of the wheelhouse. He had

(01:28:27):
one foot in, one foot out, you know, and he's
a big man, but his eyes meant me, and I
was the first time in my life I ever visualized
or seeing that he didn't know whether you wanted to
kill me or kiss me look, and I think he

(01:28:49):
went with a little bit of both. But he caught
up to me eventually because it wasn't always that type
of weather. So the weather had changed became a little
bit rough, and that there was my first experience with seasickness,
and I got sea sick. So he pulls out and

(01:29:11):
back then we didn't have any plastic pails or anything
like that. So he pulled out a Galvanis bucket of
salt water, put it up on the hatch cover, and
gave me a coffee cup, and he says drink, and
I drank. He says more, and I drank more water, Yes,

(01:29:31):
salt water, and I drank more. I don't know how
much I drank. And all of a sudden I became deathly,
you know, And I know I was down on the
deck and I was rolling around like it felt like
a bowl of jelly. All of a sudden I had

(01:29:52):
to let go and I went with the edge of
the boat and litterfly. I I'll tell you one thing.
I'll tell you one thing. That was the first and
last time in my life I was ever seasick. Really,
it cured me. And I don't know whether it's a

(01:30:13):
fear that I might have to drink all that salt
water again or not, but it did cure me. I've never,
to this day since then, ever been a seasick. I'm
gonna try that because I still get seasick. I'm about fifty.
When I think you have to have somebody bigger in you,

(01:30:34):
you're a big old grandpa to make you do it.
And I can force myself to when I when I died.
When I'm diving, yes, I'll usually uh. Remember we were
up here a couple weeks ago we went looking for scallops.
I got I dranking the salt water that day where
I threw up a little bit, not like you're talked about,
just little SIPs and it makes my you know, but

(01:30:57):
not like uh, it just makes me kind of you know,
you kind of throw up in your mouth a little
bit like that, yeah, snorical hanging out of your mouth.
Try well, you don't get seasick to you? You don't
think you don't. When I was a kid that we
get seasick on Lake Michigan, but Lake Michigan get like
six ft waves are big in Lake Michigan, but would

(01:31:17):
be enough to make you seasick. My kid got seasick
because he wasn't looking. He didn't know to look at
the horizon. You know, he's like sicker he got, he's five,
you know, sicker he got. The more he'd slink down
the bottom of the boat. I can tell him, you
gotta sit up, man and look around. I'll be looking
at the boat you know, so what do you do
when he is? He said, look as a boat a rising,

(01:31:39):
I focused on the fishing. Usually if I focus on
the fishing, I get better. But the horizon, yeah for sure.
Or I just you know, make myself let it go
and I get better. Do you know that you honest?
Is woman's father as a boatmaker? No? I didn't know that.

(01:32:01):
What type of boats? And make am a deep v
uh bay boat? And then they make a flat bottom
skiff North Carolina? Not man for rocks. I wouldn't do
well up here, right? So did you guys see that

(01:32:25):
that boat out here that I told you about? Did
you look at it? The Japanese skiff? No? I found
a Japanese gas can yesterday two days ago. Yanni found?
Who found it? I did? Yanni found he saw something
red up in the tide rack there. Went over there
and it was a gas can with Japanese script on it,

(01:32:47):
and I cut that off. I cut the Japanese riding
out and nailed it to a post on my shack
as found art. You know what found artist? Yeah? So
so so so you're you don't do you don't report

(01:33:07):
this stuff? Then? Who there's a site that you go
on and report anything that you found, and uh, I'll
put my job. I found a huge bottle of detergent,
five gallon tank of detergent not longer on the beach,
and I found a strip basket not long on the beach,
and my Jimmy Carter had Jimmy Carter, Jimmy Carter nuclear

(01:33:31):
sub hat. Oh okay, alright, I'm a beach coleman, son
of a gun man. But uh so no, but there's
a Japanese boat, the washed up new here there is
out there, and Grendel, how are you going to look
at it? I did? I went looked at it, and
it's really a scuokum built boat. Uh. It probably came

(01:33:52):
across a Pacific upside down the way it sits. And uh,
I say that because the rails portion of the boat
in areas is just pounded where it's been off and
on beaches or whatever, hitting things. But for the most part,

(01:34:15):
I ain't get salvageable. But it does have the Japanese
name on the hull itself. But somebody, how long is
the boat? Uh? Close to nineteen? Could you get it
off there and drag it home? Oh? You could in
a super high tide. Yeah, you found it right. Well,

(01:34:40):
what I'd rather do is just go out there. I
didn't get a picture of it, and I'm gonna go
out there and get the whole name off of it.
And there's a site that you go to, and in fact,
one of the people on that site speaks and writes
fluent Japanese. Oh, on a site that you are reporting into.

(01:35:03):
So if you take a picture or anything that he'll
be able to decipher what it is and and be
interested to find out, you know, maybe who owned that
polt or who? Oh? Yeah, man, it'd be super interesting.
You had a gas can I founds busted up. Yeah,
I mean it looks like it's been in the water
long time. Do you know what they say in eighty

(01:35:23):
million years that Japan we'll have a created all of
the illusions and be docked up against Alaska. H What
what difference is that today? It doesn't make any difference today.
Something look forward to. Well, do you know your state

(01:35:47):
originally accreedd and banged up against California, then rolled a
transform and fault to where it is now. I don't
doubt that a bit, you know, I mean you can
picture I could picture, yes, Well, what did they say,
Now your tallest mountains and your biggest valleys and stuff

(01:36:10):
like that, in your biggest canyons, or blew the water.
There's a book, there's a great trilogy written by geomic
Fee about geology called Annals of the Former World, And
in it he says, if I was going to sum
this book up in one sentence, it would be at
the top of Mount Everest is marine limestone. Well. He

(01:36:37):
also says another thing in that book that's interesting. He says,
if you imagine the history of the Earth as your
arms spread out as wide as you can spread them. Okay,
he said, you could remove all of human history with
one stroke of a nail. Files are problem seem like,

(01:37:00):
uh no, I know that. I mean the Earth. They
date someone data back to billion years old. That's a
lot old. I think the Earth in the midlife crisis
because in four billion years the Sun's gonna burn out.
We're in the middle, We're halfway there, is halfway done.

(01:37:21):
I told my kids the son is gonna burn out
and it really affected him and I couldn't explain to
him that I meant in a long time. Shouldn't it's old?
That little mean? You mean Yanni. What concluding thought, Yann,
you took off your Lavian power ring? Yeah, the the saltwater,
I think it's a saltwater there. It uh caused me

(01:37:42):
to swell up a little bit. So it's getting a
little a little snug as part of being a Latvian janice.
Where is a Lavian power ring called names and it's
something to Laban's And we were talked about this before.
I think so the Laban stole it from the Old Testament,
or Yanni would argue the Old Testament stole it from
the Latvians where some guy had it where he's gonna

(01:38:05):
go kill the Latvian king. And he said, just look
for the guy with the Latvian power ring, and all
Latvian dudes went out and got a ring just like
the king's, so that no one could tell who the
king was. It's old memory health you put a stripe
put a red mark on the door in the Old Testament.
So Yanni, in order to protect nam as the king,

(01:38:27):
where's his Lavian power ring? One time I was making
a off color jokes, I don't want to tell you
about what about Yanni, and he was telling me that
some one of these the next time I make that joke,
I'm gonna see a flash of blinding silver as his
fist glides in my face. But it's his NAIs and dance.

(01:38:53):
It would be well deserved, right. My grandmother made that
for me. His brother has one too, and he's got
a lavian our tattoo. I think, I think, Steve, when
was the last time you were ever disciplined? I'm forty
years old, man, Well that's true, But when was the
last time your wife's eighteen nineteen? Oh no, my wife. Yeah,

(01:39:20):
my wife has a way like she has a disciplinary method,
you know. Um, it works very well, uh rihanna. Any
concluding thoughts? Oh, another thing about the lab empowering. You
told me that you think about not wearing any rings anymore. Yeah,

(01:39:41):
because no, because who just some celebrity just got what
do they call that when your ring pulls your skin off,
your whole finger hurt. Now there's a term for that,
there is, Yeah, collared sleeved, Yeah, something like up. Anyways,

(01:40:02):
I know quite a few guys have you know, being
had that happened to him or had it close to
happening to them, and so instead they've just gone to
a tattoo for their wedding band. I'll tell you what.
I quit wearing a wedding band, not because I'm trying
to do something wrong, but for a lot of those reasons.
And uh also, I had these watch bands and they're

(01:40:27):
all metal, and then you could break them open to
take them off, you know. And I had one of those.
I'm working on my car, and I had this wrench
and his source tightening a post down, and somehow that
shorted across to the negative, and I think it's when

(01:40:50):
I came down. My watch came down on the post
of the negative and I had a hold of that,
and it gave you te bolts more well that twelve
votes with a lot of an preacher. I mean, I
took my watch band off and I had that burning.
It was just welts all the way around, just ring

(01:41:12):
on a battery, and I caught it on a couple
of tree limbs, and I proposed to my wife I
stopped wearing it, and she said, I can get the tattoo.
But I made at this fine life without a tattoo.
I don't want to go get a tattoo. Now. I'm
gonna ask her if I could just start taking a
magic marker every couple of days, and magic mark ring

(01:41:32):
mark just before you travel to me. Whatever. She just
likes me to have it on. Meanwhile, meanwhile, sometimes you
don't even know where hers are. I find him laying
around now and then one day I found one in
her damn shoe. So you're married. She's not. Yeah, she's
always like, oh she got him both on none on

(01:41:53):
one on, don't know where they are. And meanwhile, here's
me puffy old finger, the ring on it. We'll tell
her you to turn that in for a n They
actually gave this to me when I bought her ring
nilon and ring or something. I thought about getting one
of those silicon rings. You said, I can do that
if I want. Well, Joan had Joan had one. I
think it was jade jade ring, your solid jade ring?

(01:42:17):
Was it? At one point in time? I thank you
still have it? Oh maybe she didn't that It was
up made out ja dyke, very expensive. But um there's
a thought too, So y'all he's gonna quit wearing as
possibly all right, Yanny. Concluding thoughts, you wrap up questions

(01:42:39):
you're gonna chance for quickly thoughts. Ron When after John's
turn I guess I have a concluding question. We might
gonna squeez be able to squeeze another hunting. How far
do we have to go up the hill so that
we're not hunting like a low end muskeig. Dude, listen,
I don't believe any of that. You don't. I just

(01:43:02):
want to stay on everybody's right side around here, are you? Okay? Okay?
You guys know this buck NI killed personally? Okay? What
was his name? Did he have velvet or not in velvet?
Name was Bucky? And he was not in velvet. And

(01:43:22):
I'll tell you had the most symmetrical two points that
you ever saw. That's not this one. Oh yes it is.
So I you know what you ahead and do your
hunt and stuff like that. But you know, really, I

(01:43:44):
thought you guys were sport hunters, No meat hunters. You're
a meat hunter or a sport hunter? You like the challenge? Yes,
then you're a sport hunter. Do you like the channel?
You don't want to be accused of being a sport hunter.

(01:44:05):
I hunt for fun and meat. I wouldn't ut, I
wouldn't hunt. Then let me ask you this challenge sporting meat.
I'm a sporting meat guy. So let me ask you this,
why don't you shoot your critters in the head. I'll
tell exactly why don't shot critters in the head Because

(01:44:28):
I was brought up or my father. The more reasons
to this, but I'll start with the first one. My
father would hold up a tennis ball, volleyball. Okay, you'd say,
which would you rather hit? That was the first thing.

(01:44:50):
Later in life through I've been fortunate to do quite
a lot of hunting, I have generally found that at
aiming for the lungs is consistently. When you puncture the lung,

(01:45:10):
you have a dead animal, you have a huge margin
for air, and oftentimes you have very very very low
meat wasted john broadside shots. When I have seen people
do headshots, if they're not an expert marksman and they
don't know their own limitations, they're dealing with a very

(01:45:33):
small margin of air. Like when you're off an inch,
you're off and it leads to blown off jaws, punctured ears, whatnot.
It's just bad. You can hit the rack and split it. Well,
that's gonna ring its bell and knock them down. But

(01:45:54):
you know, I mean, I don't think guys, don't guys
who shoot lungs. Aren't shooting lungs strictly for the reason
they don't want to mess the rack up. Well no, okay,
but to me, all your dear head, yes, or the neck,
but most of them in the head. And the reason

(01:46:14):
why I do that is we utilize the heart in
the liver. But he likes the Yannie likes the lips. Okay,
so you like the lips and the nose, ears, cheek meat.
I like cheat meat, right, No, you ever roast deer's head,

(01:46:35):
picked the meat, the tacos. No, I have waste all
that meat. Well, I don't call it waste because that
there's a given. I mean, you gotta hit him somewhere. Yeah,
and uh so you know, and tell and tell I
acquire a taste for brains, tell them if I ever.

(01:46:58):
But even if I do hit it in the head,
I can utilize the brain if I wanted to tend
the hide with it, you know. So it's not a
waste there. But I don't. I don't want a chance
of And I always give my son and his friend

(01:47:18):
a bad time because sometimes they don't bring back the
heart liver because the shot of the body. No, no,
they always should. They always do head shots, Well, what's
how far? Like, what's the maximum distance you shoot at
at a at a black tail? Typically the maximum distance,

(01:47:38):
like it will be a long shot for you, the
way you want to fifty yards for the head. Yeah,
I don't care. If you're Lee Harvey Oswald, I think
that that's a bad aim. Well, that was a really
bad thing. I just said. I didn't mean that. The
reason I just talked about Lee Harvey Oswald's earlier, I
was talking with someone about going to the museum in Dallas,

(01:48:03):
the Book Depository Museum, and I remember looking out the
window and expecting it to be a much longer distances.
It was a very short distance. People always made a
big deal about how could he have done it if
you hadn't have had this, and that it was impossible
they could have made it with a site open site,
And I said that went around like that is not everybody,
All the guys that hang out with the do that

(01:48:24):
shod no problem Anyeah. I should have said that that
was insensitive. However, I don't care if you're a great shooter.
I think that you Well, let's let's when you said
that maximum okay, and most of my shots are within
a hundred yards some of them even, you know, like

(01:48:45):
when I got that one big four point, you know
I didn't even use my scope. Who was so close?
I mean so when you say my maximum shot, well
that was you know when I took and when I
got Here's what this this are. I'm not gonna have

(01:49:06):
this argument with you because you've been hunting your whole life.
You've killed umpteen million deer. Like, you know what works
for you. Okay, you know what your capable of, you
know what works for you. But would you agree with
this statement? You have a grandson, right, did you tell
your grandson hit him in the head, hit him in
the lungs, hit him in the head. His his last

(01:49:31):
year he shot it was a five point? Yeahs was
that his first year? Was was that his first year?
And he shot it right and knows put it down
pretty quick on all right. I'm a long man. Yanni's
a long man. An Yeah. I had a couple of

(01:49:51):
bad experiences. You know, I had some good experiences put
down this animals very quickly with the head shots. But
I had a couple Its uh for me, It doesn't
warrant taking that shot anymore. First year, I ever shot
thirteen years old, shot him in the head, had to
run him down, kill him with a knife, And that

(01:50:16):
was probably Josh shot exactly. Now. Another thing I saw
happen some years ago when they started. You know, when
when buffalo leave Yellowsto National Park, the way the laws
are set up down in Montana, Wyoming, when buffalo leaves
they Also National Park, he goes to being wildlife to livestock.

(01:50:37):
Unlike every other animal. If a wolverine, wolf, elk, black bear,
grizzly bear, mule, deer, antelope leaves the Also National Park,
he's wildlife. Buffalo which is just as native and has
just as might have the right to the lands any
of our creatures leaves ye Also National Park, he becomes livestock.

(01:50:57):
The Department of Livestock rounds him up and sends him
off to slaughter. When they first started open up some
permitted hunting for these things, and it wound up being
in many ways to serve the interests of killing them off.
But the various tribes in that area who had a
historic claim to that area were allocated tags to go

(01:51:22):
kill buffalo. When I was working on my book about buffalo,
I went with not with but I accompanied without them
actually asked me to accompany, but I went out with
the net purse when they were there to shoot five
buffalo and they were doing headshots. At one point in time,

(01:51:44):
I think that they had all five of the ones
they hit in the head. We're still wandering around with
holes in them trying to It's like you need to
know exactly what you're doing. Had they been shooting for long,
they would all eventually got them all. Had they been
shooting for long, you hit it through the long, it's

(01:52:05):
gonna die buffalo too. I don't know what what type
particularly around you're using that you gotta have a sturdy one.
But I was just sorry of those we were up
BEYONDI was there. We were talking to these uh choot pigascimo.
They shoot walrus is a two threes in the head,
like you're saying, So if you know about shot placement,
those boys, do you know exactly should exactly where to

(01:52:26):
hit the waters? Said? The waters can't get off the
ice when they hit it like that. It can be done,
but a lot of people don't have that skill set.
So it's clearly you know what you're doing. You've been
doing your whole life. Do you average Joe Schmo. I
think it's better off aiming behind the shoulder because he
can be all shaky and all nervous and all kinds
of crap like that and still be six inches off

(01:52:49):
in any direction and kill the thing. You could take
and getting your or your canoe and go right out
here now, even in that big right here. Now, set
yourself up a target over there, take your rifle and
try to hit that target while you're in that canoe,

(01:53:10):
and saw how much how many times you're gonna miss? Well,
it's illegal. You're talking about the Eskimo shooting walrus from
their kayaks, and this is an open open and this
is open ocean, and they have a way of knowing

(01:53:31):
and timing their shot on that thing. Rocks and rocks
back up. They do expert expert marksman, no you get.
I mean, they definitely know what they're doing. But I
was a distinguished marksman, a little bit better an expert
in the military, a little bit better an expert. But

(01:53:54):
I'm not saying I've been shooting all my life. My father,
if you be where he died, and he goes about
five years old, he bought me a single shot twenty
two and he would go out target practice and he
was teaching me certain how to handle it, care for

(01:54:16):
it as that. When I was young. After he died,
of course, I couldn't utilized or going with it, you know,
do the gun again until I was a little bit older,
and a new way my mother would allow me to
do that is I had to go down and at
the Civic Center and catch again. They had actual indoor

(01:54:39):
range and I went down there and went through marksman
course you know and stuff, so you were pretty closely
supervised for safety and everything like that. So I was
taught then, but I was also taught sighting, you know,

(01:55:01):
using your site patterns and this and that, and I
got pretty good with it, and just over time I
got real good. I mean they're in UH pistol, you know.
So what did you shoot when you were in the military. Well,
I shot I shot the A R fifteen M sixteen

(01:55:26):
h A R fifteen what a lot of people know
of that semi automatic, but ours was fully the M sixteen.
I shot the M sixty machine gun. Is that they
have in the helicopter doors. Yes, and then the also
UH qualified with a M seventy nine grenade launcher and

(01:55:49):
a three point five rocket launcher which is the bazooka,
and those I used caliber side arm. Uh god, what
else they took away from me? When I went entered
into country and Psycho on Tauson Air Force Base, they

(01:56:11):
had just put it over their duffel bag. Put it
between your feet there and you're standing there, wait, and
they came through and started taking everything on my douffle bag.
But I brought brought with me. I brought I brought
my thirty eight Smith and Weston pistol and they seized it.
And I thought that was the dumbest thing they could
ever do, you know, because I'm I'm used to that weapon,

(01:56:34):
and what's gonna hurt? Just another weapon that you have
in a war zone, you know, mean while you got
an M sixty door gun, well sure you up there?
Well no that yeah, But I mean I thought awful
funny about that. I thought I would never see it again.

(01:56:54):
You know. He got back, It got back, and they
nailed it right back to my our post off the box.
Back then. I guess they could do it, you know,
not anymore you can't mail to the post office box.
But they made it back. It was every when I
got back anyway. Uh, well, last question, what do you
what's your how'd your dad die? He's so young. My

(01:57:17):
father was in the engineers Army engineers and they went
Toknawa and they were gonna pull their invasion going on
to Okinawa. So he and his squad went on their
first undercover darkness to start clearing away so that they're

(01:57:39):
not bottling necked on the beach by obstacles and stuff
like that. So they went in and started working u
stealth and and and wiring it up so that when
that started, then they'd start blowing all these obstacles up
and clearing the way so that they're not jammed up
waiting to get for seed off the beach. And in

(01:58:04):
that process they were they were still working on the
roads and stuff like that that there getting the stuff
up off the beaches. So his whole squad was facing
towards the beach, so they get out the way of
all the amphibious vehicles coming up off the beach. So

(01:58:25):
they had the you're being cautious about that, and one
of the fellows that were driving one of those amphibious rigs, Uh,
they shelled him and he went into shell shock. Life
uh like uh, and turned his amphobious vehicle back around,

(01:58:46):
started heading back down the beach and ran over half
my father's squad, including him. And I can remember as
uh the child. I could remember looking at his back,
you know, when he had a shirt off and you
could actually see it still see some treadmarks and big
scars and everything like that where they had straightened his

(01:59:07):
back out. Well, he always had problems. They're always in
and out of the v A hospital all the time, constantly.
And I didn't know how my mother had six kids,
but she did, you know, so something was working. But

(01:59:28):
for the most part, he was pretty sick, pretty sick person.
And as near as I could tell, he had problems
with ulcers. I think he probably had some cancer. Um.
I don't know though, but he went down. It was

(01:59:49):
in the hospital. Uh. My younger brother, Ivan was just born.
I think Ivan's birthdays. See, I don't know d end
of June one July. But my father died before he
could see him. Uh. He died in the hospital in Portland. Uh,

(02:00:15):
in the VA hospital. After he died, and the v
A knew it was service connected, they knew damn all
it was, but they did not they denied my mother
any help. All right, yeah, you know, and that always
rubbed me bad because when a veteran. I wasn't married

(02:00:41):
when I was in Vietnam, but I couldn't. I've seen
other veterans that had a wife and kids home, and
I've seen the fact they had on him and they
really missed him, and that was the most important thing
to him, and they didn't want to get blown away
and leave there wife and kids without any means of support.

(02:01:07):
And so Joan and I at one time we were
going through Seattle. We're at the Red Lion Red Line,
and this one fellow from Ketchikan there was going back
for American Legion convention, and I told him, I says,
you know what really bothers me that a veteran, when

(02:01:29):
they're having a disability and they're married and they have kids,
but they're having a they're getting a disability pension from
the v A. If they die, that pension goes away,
and that's not what that veteran wants. And while and
I told him a story about when I was over there,
I seen how what effect it had on the soldiers

(02:01:55):
that did have a family back home, immediate family, their
wife and kids, and how they were saying anything else,
all the anxiety about their financial well being. Right, yes,
if anything happens to them, whos how are they going
to be taken care of? In other words, And that's
true back then, if something was to happen to him,

(02:02:16):
their wife and kids didn't get anything. I guess imagine
they have so securities help them a little bit, but
for the most part nothing. And that was true up
until actually when the guy listened to me and he
went back and it made a difference. That's when they
started the process. So I'm one disabled now, anything happens

(02:02:42):
to me, now, at least Joan will get some of
my pension. But before then that at came in. If
I was to die, she would get nothing. Boom be.
So if I was making house payments and we had
house payments and she didn't have any other income and

(02:03:04):
stuff like that, but maybe so secared or something, she
would be hurting and probably lose her house. So they did.
They came through and they said that right now she'd
get a third of what I get. Uh, I feel
it should be a little higher. When I retired from

(02:03:24):
law enforcement, I reduced my monthly Uh what they're going
to give me two as sure that Joan would get
something when I passed away, pass away. So what I did?
I set her up to where because I was wasn't

(02:03:44):
taking my full retirement, some went you know, kept back,
but anything happens to me now and I died before
her or whatever she'll get sev. There was another one
where I could have set it up for fift but no,

(02:04:05):
I mean she was on there going going through what
hardships and stuff like that. I went going through the
police department and going through different things, and you know
you do, and so I know there was a lot
of times I had a phone home and tell her, hey,
locked the door a little to rifle, you know, because

(02:04:27):
just be on the safe side. You never know because
of the case you worked or something that's going to
be big out for vengeance. Yeah and what what what
the person told me, you know himself. So yeah, it
was So that's what I'm helcol about the military there
there they turned around a little bit and just like

(02:04:52):
I'm maybe keynote speaker for the upcoming UH gathering for
the he had error veterans over in Craig of September.
I was asked to give a talk for about a
twenty minute talk and uh in there. You know, the

(02:05:17):
United States government for in the last decade, let's say,
has realized what especially since the returning from the veterans
returning from Iraq and Afghanistan desert charm. They came back heroes,

(02:05:39):
you know, and we never did. I mean I came
back walking through Stack Airport, had some demonstrators in there,
and they're calling me baby killer and one spat spat
on me. I don't think you'd be spent on anybody
else after that. I mean, I think you learned this
lesson because changed a little bit. Well, I knocked them

(02:06:04):
out and I was putting a bathroom in there and
cleaning off all this bit, and then walks too poor
to Seattle Police Department be personnel and two MPs. The
one guy asked me, did you hit that guy out there?
And they turned around. I pointed, put my finger in
the chest each one of them. I said, it hit you.

(02:06:26):
You you and you as you called me a baby
killer and spit spit on me. They did that, and
I said, yeah, I showed him where they spent. By
the time I got out of there, they were gone.
So which was good. But I was coming home. Yeah,
I was coming home. They gave me a brand new uniform,

(02:06:50):
fitted me for it, and I got home. When I
left the house there, my mother was in the kitchen
painting totem poles and the seat seat sitting there, and
when I came back, snuck in the back door there. Well,
I got my stepfather down to the bar. We had

(02:07:12):
a few tips in my uncle, and I had another
guy that I ran into. He was in the Navy
coming back. So we're sitting there in a bar, and
I wasn't twenty one yet, so I told him and
neither neither neither was it. Neither was it was this
other guy, So I told him, he come on, we

(02:07:35):
deserve it, you know. So we went in there, and
even the bartender once in a while to buy his drinks.
I thought it was pretty cool. But for the most part,
when I got in there and I got home, my
mother was at the kitchen table there painting total bulls. Yeah,
and she turned around, looked, went back to painting total bulls,

(02:07:58):
and all of a sudden to realize I was back home.
So that was about welcome home enough for me, you know. Yeah,
all right, Rannie got any concluding thoughts. Yeah, I do,
you know. Lately here I realize one thing, and I

(02:08:21):
came to a conclusion there's only one thing good about
old age that it doesn't last long. And that's the
only thing good about it. So anyway, no, I'm I'll
tell you. I'll tell you another one too. I I

(02:08:44):
added on to this when I heard of someplace house,
but I added a few other things. But the Golden years,
it's not the Golden years. It's what I refer to
as a metal years. It's where you get silver in
your hair, golden your leading, your ass our deficiency, your

(02:09:06):
brain is, our mind is like a steel trap, rusted shut.
You have enough platinum credit cards to buy the world,
but not enough gold to pay him off. And I
think that they're more accurately describes it than the Golden Years.
But yeah, I since nineteen two thousand, uh, nineteen nineteen two,

(02:09:31):
since two thousand seven when I had my episode of
the last cloudy and stuff like that. My before that,
I wasn't as good as shape as you, maybe even better.
But now I mean I've I've been crashing going downhill.
And then I had at open heart surgery and one
of those metal valves put in and that they're further depleted.

(02:09:55):
I mean, anybody could look at me and it was
and you're not disabled, you know, but looks ain't it.
I mean it's what I can there could. I can't
do anymore. And because of all this here going on
at one time and the medications they got me on,
you can't. I mean, yeah, how old are you? Well

(02:10:15):
past retirement age? What's retirement age? Sixty year older? Now? Well, sure, yeah,
I am, but that has nothing to do with it.
I mean really, I mean, Joan isn't in better shape
than I am? Yeah, you know, and she's older than me.
She was the she was a founder of the International

(02:10:39):
Order of Cougar's her. I just kidd none, you, yohn.
What can I tell about your wife? Johnnie? I never
got to wrap it up. Tell about your wife? You

(02:11:01):
go tell these guys about your wife, Johnny. Johanni's wife
asked him to get married and he said no. I said, yeah,
he he loved his wife so much that he broke
the Latvian uh like ring broke the Lavian bloodline. Really

(02:11:24):
so that I'm gonna blow your I'm gonna blow it.
Quick note on you're I'm gonna close the episode with
a quick note, did you make this one? No? No,
this one for sure. That's a nice one. It looks
like the Summiner. Yeah, it does. Look it's just like
the Summiner. I'm gonna start out with uh made in

(02:11:48):
call and then here's a here's a wounded calf. Yeah
you like that? Ron, which one do you get better? Responsive?
The wounded calf makes dose come and snort at you
bucked their feet up and down and as that could

(02:12:10):
bring in a buck Yeah heard doing all that? Oh yeah,
I've had that happen to me all the time, and
especially this time a year Doe roiled up in the
buckle show up. Yes, yeah, eventually I will, because that
does doing a lot of stomping against norton. Yeah, so
you'll keep holding her attention as long as you can. Yes,
I will as long as I can. And you have

(02:12:32):
to hide real good. I mean I was down for
curiosity up. Yeah, I was just gonna go with some dude.
I was down underneath the log stick. Dear, call out
and boat again. As soon as she comes back stomping
real close by. I mean I had to stop, stop
a foot away from my head, you know. But I'm

(02:12:53):
under the log and I'm all right, and she'll act
like that as long as she can't spot. Yeah, so
don't know the source one. No longer you could get
her to stop and snort and stomp and snort, the
better chances are and getting a buck to respond. Those
are bringing blackberries to all constantly all the time. And

(02:13:13):
you know, one of one of one of the times,
I was up there at Paul's bite on a road
system and I see look down below and here is
two do down there. So I tried to get them
to stomp and stuff and I blew and they did.
They were stomping and snorting and stuff like that. So
I said, this is pretty cool. When I was up there,

(02:13:34):
and never once while as soon as they slowed down
the blow it again. They continue stomp And I see
something on the tree line coming in, so I scope it.
And as soon as I seen what it was, I
sent a chill up by spine. And I didn't realize,
but this bear, black bear was move crawling in real

(02:14:00):
slow on his belly, yes, coming in, and that just
sent a chill up my back because I'm in a
muskag blowing my dear call, and I always hear a
little subtle noises around the back of me or off
to the side, you know, and I figure, well, there's
got to be a buck coming in and stuff like that.

(02:14:21):
Well it never did come in, you know. But yeah,
And I had a friend of mine that was sitting
in a small muskag and he had his rifle down
one of the chamber safety off. He's blown his derkle
and he's sitting on this stump or or logged and

(02:14:45):
a bear come bolting out of the other side of
this year short must gag and before that bear realized
that he was not a deer or something, the bear spun.
As he spun away, the ass of the bear came
around and knocked my friend off the log on his back,

(02:15:09):
and he never even had a chance to raise his rifle.
That's oh, they're fast. They come in very fast. And
I didn't have time to stick around and see what
that bear was going to do with the doze, but
he probably should have. But I had a hunt to do,

(02:15:31):
and I started going up throat, but I only took
a picture, you know. He he was coming in south
and get in within that prancing distance of maybe what
maybe a hundred fifty two. So that's right, ladies and gentlemen,
you have right here. Bears are fast, but not as

(02:15:52):
fast as you should run. Two hunting dot com by
one of you his T shirts. I like that. I
love it. Thank you. That's h U N T t
o e A T dot com. Remember I get nothing.
I get nothing for promoting Yanni's T shirts, sides, free
T shirts I have too, free T shirts. I'm gonna
make you if you don't send Ron and Jonah free

(02:16:12):
T shirt, I'm gonna quit plugging hunting Well. I take
you out a plan. Plug the Cassan Restaurant. If you're
passing through Cassan, go to the Cassan restaurant. All you
can eat everything for one dollar one dollar. Oh yeah,

(02:16:32):
all right, tune in next time

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