Ep. 457: A Violent Game of Chess with Derek Wolfe

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
If this is the meat Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
bug bitten, and in my case, underwear.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Listening toast, you can't predict anything.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Presented by First Light creating proven versatile hunting apparel from
Marino bass layers to technical outerwear. For every hunt, first Light,
go farther, stay longer. You listeners are coming in late
to a conversation. But I was just fixing to tell

(00:41):
Chester here on the subject of finding arrowheads my kids
had Did I tell you about this? They were a
mess with the metal detector.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
No, you didn't.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
And they struck some metal with that metal detector, and
on the way digging down to the metal found a
piece of bit, big worked piece of black obsidian, and
in their heads it detexts that. And I was trying
to like, no, this is coincidence. We were something it

(01:12):
want to be in an old hunk of barber wire fence.
Was this in your yard? What's that? Where did this
happen at?

Speaker 4 (01:18):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:18):
No, no, no, open the mountains out. Yeah, I want to
be an old But here's here's the weird deal. That
fencing was lower than it.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
That's pretty wild.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
It got worked. I don't know. Yeah, beautiful piece of
worked black obsidian. Like how big about like the size
of your film.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
That little pocket. If I think it's the same place.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
It's not the same.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Okay, well where we were it's loaded with flakes chips obviously,
arrowheads stay out.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Of there, we will real quick. Who are you guys
rooting for? On the when? Who guys rooting for? Between
Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg.

Speaker 5 (02:04):
Oh this is I've been talking about this a lot.
I do a sports radio show and we talk about this.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
On not not who's gonna well, I want to know
who's gonna win, but who you're rooting for?

Speaker 5 (02:12):
See, I'm rooting for Elon, but I think Zuck has
just like a sociopath psychopath kind of So you know,
he's one jiu jitsu tournaments already.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
So well, I don't know how how much does either
of him?

Speaker 5 (02:23):
Way, Uh, well, Elon's definitely heavier than Zuck, so he's
gonna have to cut if it's really gonna happen, I think.
But you know, if you saw Elon's tweet, he said
that his his main move is the walrus. He just
lays on you See, I.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Don't use I don't like I don't even know why
I'm rock but I don't know why because there's nothing
he's involved in the interest me. I don't use Twitter,
I have zero interest in Mars. I will never buy
a Teslatle electric car. I've bought like a thing on
PayPal in the last ten years going on Starlink that
I would get in. Yes, Starlink, I like him.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Starlink is my favorite.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
I don't know why I'm rooting for him so bad.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
I just I just something about Facebook is just evil
to me.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, you know Instagram, which I think you use daily.
I do use that, but I don't think that my
access to that if he gets whooped, it just that
doesn't even matter that much to me, you know it is,
I use one of his products. But you know what
the problem my problem is is, uh remember that movie
about Facebook Social painted like a very unflattering perspective. That

(03:34):
that for me is that's that that's the story, Like yeah, yeah,
and so you know, and I just have I have
a friendlier. I have a friendlier. Yeah, I just like
Elon Musk. I don't know the guy at all. Joy
to day by.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
That's so random.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
I'm not spent on my mind. Man, we're not about
what gonna talk to you.

Speaker 6 (04:00):
I thought the I thought the fight was already called off.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
No, no, I know they're trying to make it. No,
you're thinking of progos ands. Uh, there is, there is,
there's something.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
There was something in the news about how Elon.

Speaker 6 (04:13):
Came out and said my mother asked me not to fight, and.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
So really yeah, see, I thought you were confused about
the in.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
This fight get the group and.

Speaker 6 (04:25):
I've been I've been reading equal amounts about both.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Oh yeah, I talk about short lived coop. Yeah that
so fast.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Nothing happened.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
I know I could. I could like woke up in
the morning like expecting, you know, the Kremlin, you know,
and he's like, we've justed to just go home. I
was like, man, the guys, I like that works.

Speaker 6 (04:45):
He's a hot ruck, he's a hot tug vendor.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah it works that way. Well way you go. Yeah,
I know. But you know. Humble Origins joined today by
former Denver Broncos defensive end Derek Wolf, who sacked I mean,
how times if people point this out that you sacked
Tom Brady, Price sacked all kinds of I.

Speaker 5 (05:03):
Got Tom Brady. I sacked him the most though, he's
the quarterback that I got to the most.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
Here's my here's my first question for you. We're gonna
come back to this more when if you talk to
I don't want to. I'm not trying to equate military service,
which I have no experience into athletic which I have
no experience in. But uhle say continue, okay, if you
talk to him. To military uh professionals, you're striving toward

(05:31):
a like a dispassionate approach, meaning if you're going to
like raid bin Laden's compound, you take the same mental
attitude is all of the other dozens or hundreds of
rage you'd been on, right, do you know what I mean? Like, like, yeah,

(05:54):
you're aware, but when it comes to doing it, it's
just that's out of your head.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, it doesn't matter who it is.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
It's like it's the guy with the ball, seatball, get ball.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
Like that's that's it's simple.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
So but in your mind, are you like I am
gonna I have the potential right now to sack this
guy that people.

Speaker 5 (06:13):
Say it's not how it doesn't You don't even care.
You don't try harder because when you're out there, everybody's
on an equal playing level, like everybody's on the same level.
Like it just you don't think like that, You don't
think like all is Tom Brady really just just you know,
And I was maybe I'm different because when I first
got drafted by Denver, Peyton Manning was my quarterback, so
I had a relationship with Peyton Manning right away. So

(06:36):
I wasn't like starstruck, you know what I mean. And
then my first sack in the first game was against
Ben Roethlisberg.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
You know, it's like.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
Guys you get nervous when you sack them.

Speaker 5 (06:44):
Well, guys get seriously guys kind of get like that
sometimes where they're like.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
They get starstruck about a player.

Speaker 5 (06:50):
Well they as I got older, like in my fourth season,
I'd seen the rookie rookies come in and they'd see
Peyton and they'd be like and then not realize that
he's just like a normal guy that you know, drinks
bud heavy and plays football and you.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Know, he's just a normal guy.

Speaker 5 (07:04):
He'll sit down at breakfast to have a conversation with
you about whatever.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
He's just that kind of guy.

Speaker 5 (07:08):
And Tom Brady's the same way as a competitor, you know,
what I mean out there on the field, Like if
you get him and make a good play, he'll tell you,
like a good play, you know, oh really yeah, he'd like,
oh that was a good play. You got me on
that one. You know that was like he bat one
of his passes. He'll lose his mind.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
You know.

Speaker 5 (07:22):
Quarterbacks hate that when he like bat passes, block balls
and stuff like that. But you know, he's just a
great competitor. Probably the best competitor I ever played against, honestly,
because you could you know, AFC Championship game in twenty fifteen,
the first series of the game, I buried him and
this is when you can still land on the quarterback.
And I buried him, like put all three hundred pounds
on him and just buried him into the ground. And

(07:43):
he just that's people forget how tough he really was.
Like he jumped right back up like it was nothing,
and I heard the wind leave him, you know, you know,
And it was like the first like I think it
was a third play of the game. And we ended
up hitting him twenty seven times in that game. Oh
so he got buried twenty seven times and he still
almost came back and beat us.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
They made a rule that you're not supposed to land
on the quarterback? Yeah, what are you supposed to land
on your elbow?

Speaker 3 (08:07):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (08:07):
They want you to like do everything you can so
you can't hit him below the knees, you can't touch
his head at all, don't even like graze his head,
and you can't hit him with your own head. You
can't grab him and whip him to the ground, dude,
So it's got to be So.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
It changed everything. It made it a lot harder to
tackle him. So it's like you're like playing in the
yard with your kids.

Speaker 5 (08:30):
Well you like it, Yeah, it's like pick him up, Like,
I don't know. So the first year they implemented them
set him down. The first year they implemented that role.
This is little off. So the first year they implement that. Ever,
I missed like seven opportunities to have a sack, right,
and these are you know this we could talk about
because you're nervous. Well it's not even that. It's just
that like, yeah, you're nervous because the fine, So I'm saying,
like you're nervous breaking it's a fifteen to twenty five

(08:52):
thousand dollars fine when you get those rough in the
passer calls.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
That comes out of whose pocket?

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Mine?

Speaker 4 (08:58):
Really?

Speaker 5 (08:58):
Yeah, a pre tax too, and they're already taxing you.
I'm already paying fifty percent. You know, I'm already paying
half of my money to the gut to Uncle Sam.
And then the you know, the league is like, oh,
by the way, you had a penalty. So here's a
fifteen thousand dollars fine that just shows up in your
locker and you never you don't even write to check.
They just take it out of your paycheck. It's crazy.
So the first year of the implementary.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Watching football, they don't have the They don't like put
that like.

Speaker 5 (09:24):
No, no, like you Oh how many fines is he paid?
You can find for all kinds of stuff. We had
a guy that you know, weight finds it's a thousand
dollars a pound.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
What's that mean?

Speaker 5 (09:33):
When you're when you you have a you have a
weight that you're supposed to be at, and if you're
over or under that weight, it's a thousand bucks a pound.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
How precise is the weight?

Speaker 2 (09:41):
It depends?

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Oh why does the band so?

Speaker 5 (09:43):
Underweight is usually like forgivable. But when you're overweight, that's
when they start hitting you. Like if you'd one to
two pounds over, they.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
Might warn the band you're supposed to land in.

Speaker 5 (09:53):
So all right, So for example, we had a guy
that his his report his report weight was three hundred
and thirty pounds. He's showed up at four of like
four fifteen at training camp, and over that season he
got fined three hundred and seventy five thousand dollars.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
It takes body body shame into a whole new level.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Right, yeah, yeah, so you gotta every Friday.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
Body shaming is that by the NFL or by the
team that's by the team.

Speaker 7 (10:19):
Didn't Von Miller famously get fined for farting in like
a film session too?

Speaker 5 (10:23):
Oh yeah, that was it. Yeah, So that's like a
that it's like a position group thing. So every position
group in their room. So we always had it was
one hundred. It was a five hundred dollars fine for farting.
We just the fun thing about those ones, are you
guys self please?

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Oh yeah, because.

Speaker 5 (10:47):
You wouldn't like, well, you're plus one hundred for snitching.
So if I catch somebody far like hey it was him,
it was I got a hard bucks.

Speaker 8 (10:53):
This right here is one of the many reasons I
didn't become a professional football player.

Speaker 5 (10:58):
But it's simply just get up and walk out and fart,
you know what I mean. So the funny thing about
Vaughn is Vaughn ended up bringing you know that fart spray. Yeah,
he'd bring that fart spray and spray and just everybody
would lose. Like it just cleared the whole room out
for a couple hours. But yeah, the fun thing about
those finds, those room finds, like the position finds, we
get to take that money at the end of the

(11:19):
year and go do something for ourselves with it, like
as a group, you know, go to like a big dinner,
go like go to Vegas or something. Cheese, go to
Chuck e Cheese, Urban Air, do some trampolines, you know,
all kinds of cool stuff you could do with it.
But yeah, but the landing on the quarterback thing, it
made it. I remember when the referees come in, they
come in during training camp and explain the new rules,

(11:39):
and they started talking about this and we were like, well, then,
how are we supposed to tackle him to the ground?
And the refs were like, I don't know, that's what
they said. They said, we don't know, figure it out.
Just don't land on him. If you land on him,
we will throw the flag, like no matter what if
your body lands on top of his. And there we
were like, well what if we like sprawl out like

(12:00):
you know what I mean, it's like sprang and like
you know, it doesn't matter if you land on him,
it's over.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
And then so you're doing like a plank over him.

Speaker 5 (12:08):
Yeah, so basically what they want you to do is
like pick him up and like fall on your back
with him on top of you.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
That's kind of what they want.

Speaker 5 (12:16):
And what was happening is I get the guys wrapped
up and the go to spin them and they just
throw the ball away. So I'm like, I'm missing all
these sacks because I can't like bury the guy. And
then it then you that's the other thing. The more
you have to think out there, the slower you are
and you miss opportunities and stuff like that. So yeah,
it's a stupid role that is changing games.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
And you see it.

Speaker 5 (12:35):
Now where guys are You're like, how is that a
roughing the passers? Because you can't land on the guy
and it's insane. And then you can't you can't touch
his You can't graze his helmet, Like, don't even graze it.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
That's a fifteen yard flag.

Speaker 7 (12:46):
Peyton Manning strikes me as a millerte guy. You said
he drinks Budweiser.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Really he's what he's a hunter?

Speaker 7 (12:53):
Oh yeah, sure, but that that doesn't mean that he
uh no, he's exclusive to Budweiser.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
He strikes you like a light beer if I had if.

Speaker 7 (13:02):
I looked at Peyton Manning, knowing what I know about
Peyton Manning, but like he drinks Miller Light, not Budweiser,
Bud heavies.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
Okay, Oh you don't mean because of I've had enough
current events for.

Speaker 7 (13:13):
Today, not even not even related to that. Just he
looks like he'd be in a Miller Light ad.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
Derrek Wolf came out just just for listeners. Uh, Derek
Wolf was heavy duty on our radar and uh we
even wrote a bottom, wrote a bottom at our website
on the meter dot com because he got in one
of those uh, one of those things that happens six
times a year where a person well known in one

(13:43):
sphere of the world goes hunting and then they uh
and then they pay the price on social media with
all the uproar and death threats. In your case, you
did a mountain lion hunt, no.

Speaker 5 (13:58):
Poaching, no, everything was by the book. Man, I did
everything by the book. It wasn't even a paid like
outfitting hunt. It was like a buddy of mine that
runs hounds and was like, I said, hey, if you
ever have an opening and you want to go, hit
me up, like I'm just we can go forty five
minutes outside the city and chase lions.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
You know.

Speaker 5 (14:16):
So this is actually my second time having PETA and
TMC and all them guys on my butt, you know,
over over hunting because I I went to New Mexico
and did a bison hunt with my bow.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
Oh they got him riled up, and that got them
all rolled up. And what riled them up really.

Speaker 5 (14:32):
Was the picture I posted because it was a perfect
heart shot. So when we get when we opened that
animal up, my ear was still buried in its heart.
So I pulled the heart out, and I was.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Like, they didn't like that.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
None.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
They didn't like that. They didn't like that at all.
So they made a big deal.

Speaker 5 (14:45):
But they're like buffalo or they're going extinct. I'm like,
they're not. Come on, no, they're not. They just people
don't know.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
It's so beside the point, like any kind of reality,
so beside the point. It was funny is we could
do that kind of stuff. Well, in fact, do do
that kind of stuff all day long. But it's just
like people don't like being surprised. They know someone somewhere
and they don't like seeing that that. They don't like
seeing that raw edge in them. Yeah, surprises them. Yeah,
like if you're like famous for something, if you're like

(15:15):
an attractive young lady, they're just not gonna like it.

Speaker 5 (15:19):
Well, it's like, are you surprised I told Philip Rivers
I was gonna eat his children? Like you're surprised that
I'm out bow hunting?

Speaker 1 (15:25):
You'd have to be hungry, yes, yeah, but.

Speaker 5 (15:30):
That's I mean, that's another story that was That was
That was hilarious when I said that to him, because
he talked a lot of smack, you know, Phil did.
But but with the lion hunt, the way it went down, man,
it was. It was my buddy Alex Nessa, he runs hounds,
and he was like, Hey, tomorrow we're getting in front,
We're going to fresh now tonight.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
You know, be on call.

Speaker 5 (15:47):
I'll call you if we find When I said, listen,
i'll be at your house at five thirty, we're gonna
go out and do something regardless.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
So he's like, all right, cool.

Speaker 5 (15:55):
So I show up and we started, you know, trying
to cut tracks, just driving back roads, and then found
a couple of smaller tracks, nothing really worth chasing. A
couple of females, a couple of cubs, a couple of
smaller males, and which are really after is this big toms?
Because the big toms are like, they're killing a lot
of deer, they're killing a lot of elk, they're killing
a lot of sheep, they're killing dogs, they're killing other

(16:17):
cubs to get the females back in the heat, just
like bears do, and bigger, and they're just bigger and
cooler and harder to get.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
So we cut this.

Speaker 5 (16:26):
We come across this track and it was kind of
going back and forth from up under the underneath this
guy's cabin. It's going from from his cabin porch to
under this tree. So we go over and look onder
the tree. There's a half feet meal deer under there,
big four by four, and we're like, oh, this is
the one.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
You know, his track was huge. I couldn't believe. I
was like, I was like, these.

Speaker 5 (16:45):
Things are out here roaming around just in you know,
people's neighborhoods. Pretty it's not like a it's a mountain neighborhood,
you know what those neighborhoods look like. But still it's
a neighborhood. So so there's public land all around, but
where the line had went.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Through, it was private.

Speaker 5 (16:58):
So we had to get permis from this guy so
we could go through there and and cut his tracks.
So we're just like kind of hoping that this guy's
not an anti hunter and is down for it.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (17:07):
So we went up and kind of knocked. It was
like six in the morning at this point, so I
just kind of tapped on the door, and we're like, wow, hey,
there's a line out here. You know, I don't want
to do that, so I just kind of tapped on
the door and he didn't answer. Nobody came to the door.
I didn't see the lights on, so I was like,
maybe he's just not a home. But there was a
truck in the driveway, so I assumed somebody was home.
So we left and we were trying to find a
phone number to call this guy. On and with you know,

(17:28):
with Google and with you know, all these online maps,
now you can kind of figure out who owns what property.
And we were able to get some of the neighbor's numbers,
and we started hearing stories about how many lions are
actually in this area causing wreaking havoc like this. One
woman was talking about how last year a couple of
dogs got eaten and her dog, her dogs are being
harassed every night. She's afraid to leave her house at
night because there's a line that comes up and looks

(17:49):
in her window and just stares at stares in the
window at her little dogs.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Pervert.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, like this little pervert lion, you know, yeah, peeping.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
That was good, doctor Randall. We need a little scorecard. Yeah,
but I think this podcast Randall.

Speaker 5 (18:10):
But we turns out that that's like a dude ranch
where this guy it's like the ranch manager. The guy
lives there on this dude ranch. So, uh, we couldn't
get a hold of anybody that owned the dude ranch.
So finally we drive We just were like, let's drive
down and see if we can get around his property
and try to catch the tracks, which is gonna it's
gonna suck because the hiking is like straight up and down.
It's straight cliffs, two feet of fresh snow. It's going

(18:33):
to be kind of miserable regardless. So we're like, well,
you know, it's going to take us three miles out
of our way, but you know, if we want to
get him, we got to go now. So we started
driving down and here comes the guy out of his
out of his house, kind of waving at us. He's like, hey,
you guys lying hunters and we're like yeah, and he
was like, you see these tracks going across my Arner said, dude,
we've been trying to get a hold of you for
two hours.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
And he's like, oh, is that you guys on the porch?

Speaker 2 (18:55):
I said yeah. He's like, oh, I thought it was
that lion.

Speaker 5 (18:58):
So he thought the lion because he said he's like,
there's this big line that keeps coming up onto my
porch and looking in my windows and so so the track,
I mean, the tracks went right by his steps, you know,
and he's like, did you see how big those tracks are.
We're like, he's like, he's huge. And he's like we're like,
you care if we go after him? He's like, please
go get him, Please get him out of here. So we so,

(19:18):
you know, we jump out, I grab my pack, grab
my bow, we let the dogs out, and we just
go straight up and we and on the way up,
I'm like, I'm starting to slip and slide already, and
I'm like, this ain't good. This is going to turn
in and I already know what it. Hopefully he's treated at
the top of this this mountain already, Like hopefully he
was just up there and he's treed already. Well, we
get up there, and he wasn't. He goes all the

(19:39):
way back down the other the backside. So we started
like nine thousand feet or like eighty nine hundred feet
and go all the way up to like eleven two.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Or something like that.

Speaker 5 (19:48):
Oh really, and then drop back down on the other side,
down into a drainage. And then he runs up this drainage.
So at this point, I'm you know, I'm almost three
hundred pounds out there, and I'm in good shape, but
getting through snow and stuff like that, it just takes
twice as much energy to get anywhere. So I'm like
falling behind already, you know, on the way up, let

(20:09):
alone the way down, which was just like might as
well just sled down.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
I was just going through snow and my skinny ass
little body, you'd be loving it.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Oh, I'd be awesome.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
I mean switch gears.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
I was.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Cutting through that snow like you wouldn't believe.

Speaker 7 (20:26):
Man.

Speaker 5 (20:26):
By the time I got to the other side of
that mountain and was like I gotta I was. I
just was falling the tracks, following Alex and the dogs.
I was just following their tracks. So by the time
I get to to like halfway down that hill, I
had to stop because I was like sweating already. I
was like starting to like I don't know, I'm starting
because I was like, this.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Is gonna be a long day. I already know it.

Speaker 5 (20:47):
So I get down and I crawled up through all
this dead fall and and uh and the snow at
that down in that drain and you know, all rolls
down there. It was up to my chest pretty much.
So I just started crawling. I just crawled through, and
he was like.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
And the Lion's cutting across the top of.

Speaker 5 (21:02):
It, yeah, so more or less floating on it. Yeah,
he's just floating on and the dogs are floating on it.
And then Alex is you know, he's not. He's like
one hundred and sixty five hundred and sventy five pounds,
so he's just kind of floating on it too. But me,
every time I take a step, it's just like straight down.
So I just started crawling. So I crawled and he keeps.
He calls me. He goes, where are you at? And
I said, dude, I'm I don't even know where. I

(21:22):
can't hear the hounds anymore. I'm way behind you. And
he was like, all right, We'll just keep following my tracks.
He's like, I think they got him. I think they
got him treated now about you know, two miles up here.
And I was like, all right, cool, So I keep
going and then he.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Calls me again.

Speaker 5 (21:33):
He goes, hey, there's a spot where you're gonna see
where I turned and went to go up the hill
and came back down. Just keep going up the hill
when you get there. And I'm like, okay. He calls
it a hill. No, it's a it's a straight mountain.
And so I just go straight up that mountain, crawl
up there. I get to the top and start walking
the ridge, following his tracks, and he calls me again.
He's like, you gotta you know, he starts freaking out.
I don't know if you've ever been onto these hound hunts. Oh,

(21:54):
it's chaos. He's he's and in the background I can
hear the hounds. He's like, we're gonna lose this line.
Where are you at? He's huge, and I was like, dude,
I'm coming, like, I'm doing everything I can. I'm going
as fast as I can. At this point, I'm cramping.
So I'm now my hamstrings, my quads and my forearms
and my like rib cage is like starting to cramp
up and I can't.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
Like your rib cage is cramped.

Speaker 5 (22:16):
Yeah, like all those like in here, like all those
abdomen muscles are starting to lock up on me. And
I'm like, oh, this ain't good. He goes, all right,
I'm gonna drop you a pin. Come straight to the pin.
I'm like all right, So he drops this pin and
I just like hauled down. I just like roll down
the mountain pretty much, just sliding and ripping my pants
up and falling all over the place. And because I
can't stand up and walk, because if I stand up

(22:38):
a walk, I just cramp. I'm just like Charlie Horse
Charlie Horse, Charlie Horse. And then like I'm like, oh, like,
my whole body starts locking up. So I just like,
I'm just gonna crawl. So I crawled down backwards down
that thing and rolled down it and slid down it
as much as I could get to the pen.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
It's on the road. I'm like, oh nah, and he
I called him.

Speaker 5 (22:54):
I was like, dude, you drop me a pin on
the road. Are you seriously goes Oh, you're you know,
we're screwed now. You're never getting up here.

Speaker 8 (23:02):
Oh.

Speaker 5 (23:02):
And I was like, wait, He's like, you gotta come
all the way back up. He's like, I told you
to walk the ridge and drop down on the pin.
I said, no, you didn't. You said come straight to
the pin. I said, all right, I'm not arguing.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
I'm coming.

Speaker 5 (23:12):
And this is only like nine hundred yards that I
had to go to get to him get or nine
hundred feet to get to.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Where he was.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
It's been like hours at this point.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Oh yeah, oh.

Speaker 5 (23:20):
Yeah, it's yeah, we're four or five hours into this,
like like it just took so long to get anywhere.
And I look up and I still it's in this cut.
So it's a big cut like this, and it's just
deadfall everywhere and little cliffs and stuff, and I'm like,
all right, here you go. So I just crawled my
way up there. It took me about an hour and
a half to get to get up there. And I

(23:40):
get up there and I hear, you know right, he's
got the hounds and he's like, you're almost every buddy,
keep coming. Then I turn and look and I look
up and there's a lion sitting right above me in
a tree doing that.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
And I was like, oh man, he's huge.

Speaker 5 (23:54):
I was like, I can't believe how biggie is. And
I was like, I just shoot him here, and he's like, no,
he's gotta fall on you. I was like, I can't move, man,
I'm done. And there's a video of me if you
look on my Instagram or even on my YouTube channel.
He took a veh had his phone out taking a
video of me standing up in that moment, and you
can see on my face I'm.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
Just pale white.

Speaker 5 (24:13):
I'm just look like defeated, right, And I'm like I
just wouldn't give up, though, So I just kept going
and I had to go like ten more yards to
get to him, and I just got up and made
my way up to him, and he was facing me.
The lion was facing straight at me in that tree,
so I had to do a frontel on him. And
I was like, all right, it's time to send one.
And he was like, put it right above this little
white spot and I was like, all right, I put

(24:35):
it right on that white spot. And he fell out
of the tree and I just boom, fell to the
ground and I was just like I'm done. I was like,
I hope he doesn't come up here because I can't
fight back right now. And he's like, all right, give
him a minute. And we didn't hear any movement, so
he's like, all right, I'm go down there and check it.
So he goes down there, he's like, we got a
dead lion, you know. He go starts freaking out and
he's like, let the hounds come down. So I had

(24:55):
to like unhook those and that took me forever because
every movement was like and then I start thinking, how
am I going to get him out of here? How
manna get this line out of here? So I let
the dogs go and go down there, and he's like, where,
hurry up, get down here, and I'm just like trying
to take my time, you know. So I crawl backwards
down there. When I say backwards, I'm on my hands
and knees, crawling backwards down the hill, slipping, sliding down,

(25:16):
you know, and grabbing trees to hold me. And finally
we get to it, and I couldn't believe how big
he was. Could not believe. I was like, this thing
could drag me by my neck up a tree if
it wanted to. And he goes, we gotta get a
picture of this thing. He's like, he's like, set your
stuff over here, and let's take a picture of him.
And I was like, dude, forget the picture. Man, let's
get him out of here. And he's like, no, no, no,

(25:37):
he's huge. He's one of the biggest lines I've ever seen.
He's been hunting lines for, you know, fifteen years, so
he's he knows what he's talking about.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
And so I'm like, all right, whatever.

Speaker 5 (25:45):
I go to pick this thing up and I grab
it around a belly and I lift it up and
I'm like, I'm like, dude, this thing is like two
hundred pounds. He's like, nah, he's probably like one seventy
one sixty five, and I'm like, dude, I know what
two hundred pounds feels like. This thing's two hundred plus,
telling you, and he's like, yeah, whatever, and I get
him up and then he's in the head just like
flops right onto my forehead and I'm like, che you know,

(26:07):
you can't even see my face and he goes flop
his head to the side, so I like like nudge
his head over and boomy. That's the picture the famous
bitch I snapped that he snapped of me right there,
and then I just dropped him and he comes over.
Let me feel this thing. He could hardly pick it up.
He's like, oh man, he is heavy. So we gutted
him out and I just laid him acry. I have
a Kafaro Striker XL pack and has like a meat

(26:29):
hanger on it, so I just like hung that line
across that. So the tail it's eight and a half
feet long, so the tail's hanging out one end and
the head's hanging out the other end. And there's also
a video of me doing that, trying to get over
this dead fall, and you can see I'm just like wrecked.
He goes heavy, huh, And I'm like yeah, it's heavy.
I was like, I pack elk out and everything, you know,

(26:51):
put one hundred and fifty hundred and sixty pounds of
elk meat, you know, with a skull and antlers, and
really don't have a problem. This is like I'm struggling
with this. So I did the same thing. He's like,
I'm gonna get the dogs down here because it wore out,
you know. So he just takes off. He doesn't even
help me, he just takes off. So I strapped my
boat on my packs, you know, with the lion in there,
and get in and I start crawling down backwards with

(27:13):
this lion just like dragging on, you know, it's just
dragging all over the place.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
And I get to this.

Speaker 5 (27:19):
I thought I was taking the same path that I
took up, but I kind of went the wrong way,
and I like I had to get across this little
drop off. It was probably ten foot drop off, and
I was like, I got to walk across this now.
And when I say, I took one step and just
foot feet came right out from under me shim. And
I was like, I just put my arms across my

(27:40):
body and accepted my fate. At that point, I was like,
who knows what I'm gonna land on, And luckily I
landed like right underneath this tree and it was just soft,
and I was just super lucky that I landed right there,
because like all around me is deadfall and I could
have gotten paled or something.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
But I fell off that thing.

Speaker 5 (27:57):
And then I had to repack the lion on this slope,
you know, I had to repack him in there because
he was all it was all screwed up. So I
repacked him and I come crawling down out of there.
It took me like an hour and a half to
get down out of that and finally got him to
the truck, sat him on the truck, and was just like,
oh god. I was like I can't I can't believe
that took six It was like six and a half

(28:18):
hours up there, just getting my just getting my butt kicker.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
You're like, next time, I'm going to bring some electrolyts, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Well I did. I mean I drank electrolytes and everything.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
But the problem.

Speaker 5 (28:28):
The thing is when you get to that altitude, yeah
you know what I mean, it's like it just sucks
it right out of you, you know. Plus you know
it's cold, so you have to have, you know, some
cold gear on. So I got a puffy on and
and everything, but it wasn't like I couldn't really take
it off because then I'm already sweating, so now I'm
going to freeze if I take it off. So I
just like accepted my fate at that point and we

(28:49):
jumped in the truck. And the funny thing was is
I I was I was like two hours late for
my radio show that I did, sports radio show. I
was like two hours late for my show, and They're like,
where are you at? And I'm like, I sent him.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
A picture of me plug the sh tell people what
you do. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (29:01):
So it's uh, it's a sports radio show. It's one
of four three the Fan. We're the number one sports
show in Denver. So we just talk at all things sports.
I'm I'm doing that and I'm also doing a pod,
my own podcast. I just launched my first episode. It's
the Wolf Fun Tame Podcast. And then I'm doing a
hunting show as well, and we just started launching episodes
from my first fall out of football, you know, hunting,

(29:23):
bow hunting and turkey hunting, stuff like that. That's called
Wolf Untamed It's on YouTube as well, so you can
check us out on Spotify. Then you can also on
Denver sports dot com. You can watch you can watch
the show. It's pretty funny, like we have a good time.
It's really like a comedy show. We're just goofing around
the whole time.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Oh, I should point out? Can I point that out?

Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yes? Please?

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Who said that?

Speaker 2 (29:47):
That was Phil Man? I'll get a.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
Drive me crazy? Is that a genuine question about who
said that?

Speaker 2 (29:54):
I could tell?

Speaker 1 (29:55):
I can't tell. I used to look Phil dead in
the face, dead in the face. I can tell what
he's thinking. Now I can't see this. I mean, I
asked the guy cannot see Phil? Oh, there's his hands

(30:18):
sticking up. Cal was thinking we'd put a little like
a heart monitor up in the corner, so least tell
like his vitals signs.

Speaker 8 (30:26):
Feel like a little live feed on the on the
TV there speaking.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
Of Okay, that's great segue. You can watch what we're
doing right now on YouTube. Phil's got it all rigged up.
It's become Phil's like passion project. This is being filmed
right now. I wish we could see Phil's face because
you think a guy, If you think a guy that
was that like to do that was a thespian.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
You know what that means, Phil, Yeah, an actor of
stage and screen.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
You think a thespian like Phil would be like jumping
up and down at his big chance to like be
broadcast on yet another platform. That makes me a little uncomfortable,
But I do have there as a film doesn't want
to he doesn't want to be as.

Speaker 6 (31:10):
It's kind of fun to just imagine what.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
The viewers can see. I just cut to the film cam.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
It exists.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
You guys, can you're on the film camera, film cam
right now, go camera.

Speaker 7 (31:19):
For You're actually wrong, Steve. He's he's the only one
who has their own camera on him. So there is,
and there is.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
He's hidden back. There is because he's probably like got
like his face powder on and it's like he's got
his makeup on a little eyeliner. He doesn't want everybody
to tease him. Uh, we're gonna, we're gonna dig back
into Uh we're gonna We're I want we're gonna dig
back into more of the more because we gotta get
that was a good part of the story. Yeah, yeah,
the other garbage is whatever part of the story. But

(31:47):
that was that was the part? I like, yeah, well,
you know, it just real funny. We just did a
thing with the did you follow the blue marlin controversy?
Those boys that caught that blue marlin down to North
Carolina and won a big tournament.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
I didn't follow it. No, I heard about it, so
he pay much attention to.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Roughly, these dudes go out and they join a tournament
and they're kind of like they're under underdogs in the
blue Marlin tournament, but they win the blue Yeah, they
don't win. They catch a big ass blue marlin. This
episode's already out, people could check it out. Was that filmed?

Speaker 2 (32:21):
No, that's that's not gonna be a video.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
Uh, they catch a big blue marlin six hundred odd pounds,
but it gets disqualified because it had a little bitte
mark on it.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Oh because the shark got gone on shark bit it.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
So they lost their three point five million bucks. We
had them on and one of the things they were
appreciative of this is like a little plug for our show,
is they had done every interview in the world. Who
are they interview with.

Speaker 4 (32:48):
Krinn, New York Times, CNN, Washington.

Speaker 9 (32:53):
Post, every local.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
NPR was n PR.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
New York Times is doing a piece on.

Speaker 10 (32:58):
Them, UK Daily Mail and all that website, all that,
and he says he's never gotten to talk about what
he imagines is the cool part is catching the fish.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yeah, talk about catching the fish.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
And it's a crazy story about catching the fish. No
one cares about catching the fish because we've probably got
to tell about catching the damn fish, which was amazing, Right,
that's a huge fish.

Speaker 5 (33:27):
I actually now that you're telling me, I saw the
picture of the fish, but I didn't see where that
was like a superficial dude.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
Where I had a bite on it. I didn't even
see it.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
You know what, if you go, folks can go back
and listen to this. Uh, they didn't even know because
when they pulled the they pulled the fishes. They when
they pulled the fish up, I think they pulled up
the the fish's starboard side and they couldn't see the
port side of the fish. That's how it's like they

(33:56):
didn't even know. Yeah, they've know, they pulled it up.
You can't, like you said, you can't roll these things around.
It wasn't even they weren't even then later that he
was like aware of it, but didn't even give it
any thought. It's just like a mark. Yeah, and he
said about heartbreak it's great. Joined also by Bill vander Hayden.

(34:20):
How's going man?

Speaker 4 (34:21):
Good?

Speaker 1 (34:22):
You missed a good transition there? Oh what should I
have done? You should ask Derek will Broadhead. He used,
I was gonna do that and I forgot about it.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
I was using an iron Will you were?

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Do you know Bill Pryor?

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah, Oh so you guys have met? You guys are Yeah,
I was.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
I've been shooting iron Wills for a while now.

Speaker 4 (34:38):
Really, so we met at the Colorado Bull Hunters Hey,
Bill Stake, we met at the Colorado Bull Hunters Association.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
So how's thing's been going to Iron Will Man Good? Good?

Speaker 4 (34:48):
Been busy? Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you guys have me
on last year doing that podcast on physics Fate and
physics and fatality. I think it was called but yeah.
I got a lot of interest in and us from that,
So appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Oh that's good. You know, I wanted to ask you
do you Uh? I guess you probably wouldn't know this
because you can't tell that if people that listened to
the show. This is like, I guess this is a
marketing question. People that listened to the show and came
to you from having heard the show, did they did

(35:22):
they seem to be like mostly Western elk hunters or
were you hearing from like white tail hunters and whatnot?

Speaker 4 (35:32):
Yeah, good question. I think a lot of the Western
like elk hunters had kind of already heard of this,
so I think a lot of the people were more
Midwest or even Eastern white tail hunters. Like we went
to Pennsylvania Total Archery Challenge event. I had a lot
of people come up to the booth there say they
heard the Meat Eater podcast and also a dent we
were down in at a Dallas show and a lot

(35:53):
of people there as well down in.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
Texas got it. Yeah, man, had I had an opportunity
to use your broad heads hunting white tails last winter
and phenomenal, and my my friend I was hunting with
we were both using them and they work on EUT right.
But what's cool about this is we're now you can
now come and find in addition to coming to our
store and finding first Light gear, finding FHF gear phelps,

(36:20):
game calls soon to be DSD, you can also now
come and find you know, those are those are like,
those are our brands. This is not you. We were
now able to carry iron Will broadheads on our website.
Can you tell tell folks what they can find on
our website.

Speaker 4 (36:42):
Yeah, we're gonna launch here with our S series broadheads
or S one hundred, which is what you and and
Jason used on your Elka in New Mexico, along with
our S one twenty five to our very popular heads,
and then our new our new head for the year,
which is a wide single bevel one hundred and fifty
grand head, which is our one new broadhead that we

(37:02):
just launched. So those are gonna get the three options
that Yeah, and yeah, you guys have been using our
heads for a while and we appreciate all the help
you've done, you know, helping spread the words. So I
think it's yeah, great partnership.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
Oh it's great. Man, you got a big old bear
to spring?

Speaker 4 (37:17):
I did, Yeah, I got a giant bear. Sketchewan, what
was going on with that?

Speaker 1 (37:22):
You know?

Speaker 4 (37:22):
I've been going there for a few years and seeing
big bears occasionally, and and man, each year I kind
of see a bigger one. And this this guy when
he was coming through, so he weighed four hundred and
seventy three pounds. Oh really yeah, twenty one inch.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Skull, just just a tank. And I see what's the
boon and crocket cut off? Is it twenty one or
twenty twenty for the yearly and twenty one for the
all time? Has your has yours dried yet? No?

Speaker 4 (37:49):
So he might not make the all time?

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Might shrink? Just dry him in a bucket of water.
That's trip Phelps, does it? I heard.

Speaker 4 (37:59):
I'm sitting in the stand.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Films did not tell me that trick.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
You could do the The Felts told me that joke.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
Phelps told me that joke, not that trick.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
The Beatles too, I guess the beat like there's a
beetle process.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yoh yeah, drifted. What's that beatle call? Dirmisted dirmistic beetle
carrying beetle that shrinks it less?

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, yeah, he'll drink it last.

Speaker 4 (38:20):
Yeah. I used Beatles actually on this one.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yeah. Man, I used to hang out with the dude
that had one of them. Beatleworks. This just the like
the like, and there's the ways to control. But that
is a smell that you can't find anywhere else. Man,
If you bottle that smell and squirted out of a
can clear room.

Speaker 4 (38:38):
That's funny.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
The outfitter up there had beetles, so we really much
he had his own.

Speaker 4 (38:42):
He had his own, so we threw it in there
right away, and then like a day or two later,
we just went in there to check on it, and
three of the guys that were there on the hunt
started gagging just by going in that room.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
So sure, man, it's an insane smell in that room. Man. Yeah,
uh so what's gonna happen with that?

Speaker 9 (38:58):
You know?

Speaker 1 (38:58):
What? Do you know? Get a big old rough made
out of it.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
I think I'm gonna do a big bear rug, put
it up in the in our shop there on the wall.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
How far aparty you guys, because you're in Colorado.

Speaker 4 (39:07):
Right, yeah, we're about an hour and a half. I'm
I'm north. I'm near leveland up near Fort Collins esters
Park area, and you're down a little south of Denver.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Well, when I did my book event in Denver the
other day, I sure didn't see you waiting in line.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
I didn't even know about it.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
So this is marketing people's fault.

Speaker 7 (39:25):
As an engineer, did you have extra interest in the
submarine story or not?

Speaker 4 (39:31):
You know, I did. I wanted to hear the just
review kind of what went wrong there? Huh and yeah,
from an engineering standpoint, I mean the engineers were involved.
If there were engineers involved, they should have known. No,
you shouldn't do that, you know, it doesn't mean a
factor safety.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Well, he didn't want to He didn't want to hear
about any of that.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Hee did he fire the engineer.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
I get where he's coming from. Man, he was like
an anti regulation guy, you know, which is one thing,
but the minute you're el on the trip, it's a
different thing.

Speaker 7 (40:01):
Well, and it worked like forty other times. It was
like the forty first seven.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
You know how many times that Alvin you know, you
know that Alvin submersible you know me trips the Alvin
submersibles done four. It's a good track record. Yeah, so
talking about how, oh we've done it times, it's like
four and it can go deeper. Check me out, man,

(40:25):
I'm like a sub expert.

Speaker 6 (40:27):
I think that I was really curious to see if
you actually had a number in mind.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
The first thing, Like everybody else, like I was like
the joke that like everybody Montana is a grizzy bear.
Experts like everybody in America is a submersible.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
And then there were a Russian coup expert.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Yeah right, oh no, but I am an expert on that. Okay,
we're joined by two of them today. Great. You know
there's that great quote that, uh.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
How war war?

Speaker 1 (40:56):
I don't know. I wish I remember how it went.
War is how Americans learned geography. Yeah, tell me about
the aeroflight deal you guys are working on, Bill.

Speaker 4 (41:07):
Yeah, So I sponsored a study with University of Colorado.
I've worked with them for quite a few years. I've
been adjunct instructor mechanical Engineering, helping out with the senior
design class for mechanical engineering. And this year got to
prove to this past year got to proved to sponsor
a project and direct it where we had a team
of seniors and mechanical engineering and the project was on

(41:30):
improved aero vein design for bow hunting, you know, for
arrows with broadheads on the front. So there's really a
limited amount of scientific research on aeroflight when there's a
broadhead on the front, and the aerodynamics are are much
different there than let's say a field point because.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
It's cut in the air ahead of it.

Speaker 4 (41:47):
Different right, Yeah, it's cutting the air ahead of it
different there's different pressure on the size of it when
when there's some angle of attack and it tips a
little bit off off of straightforward. So and you know,
I feel pretty strongly that a durable fixed blade head,
sharp with good edge retention is such a better option
than a mechanical. But there's a couple couple problems people

(42:11):
might have, as one might be aeroflight long range with that,
you know, they're not as forgiving as a field point
or a small mechanical. And my own testing I found out,
but you could be very effective shooting fixed blade has
long range with the right aerow set up and a
tune bow and a couple other things. But I wanted
to sponsor a kind of an independent industry test where

(42:34):
these guys weren't even you know, they're not even bow hunters.
They're just following the science and setting up experiments and
running them to really show that you can be very
effective in accuracy stability with fixed blade heads at distance
with enough aero vein. And we studied like six of
the veins top veins in the industry, along with some prototypes.

(42:54):
You know, I had some great results there we looked
at drag, stability, accuracy, spin up, wind, drift and sound.
And we had a computation of fluidynamic modeling, you know,
so a computer model modeling the flow over the broadhead
and the full arrow there and then and we could
study all these things.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
There.

Speaker 4 (43:15):
We could tip the arrow at say five degrees, let's
say the bow is not tuned, or you torque a
little bit, and look at how much restoring forces there,
How well do these veins pull it back on quickly
back on track? And then we used a shooting machine
and a lot of equipment. So we had labradar looking
at speed and drop, so drag we could get from that.
We had a high speed camera looking at spin up

(43:36):
and looking at how quickly arrows got stabilized. We had
a sophisticated sound system where we recorded sound of the
arrow coming at it, crossing over it, and then analyze
the frequency content like would it be allowed to a person,
would it be allowed to an animal? So, resulting from
all that, we found a particular vein that performed the best.

(43:56):
And then I worked with Easton to get these machine
in flesh at three degree hehlicles. So now we sell
these as well, so we get so many customers asking,
you know, what's a good arrow for us to use
that for good accuracy, you know with your broadheads. So
I can say, you know, we have this scientific study
now that shows these do a great job of quickly

(44:17):
stabilizing an arrow and giving you a good accuracy, you
know with fixed plate heads.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
That's a textured bank.

Speaker 3 (44:22):
Yeah, there's like waves in it.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
See I hate kind of stuff like this because now
I want to have this. It's like Calv's bringing up
like how he used to just love ice fishing, always
had a great time ice fishing, and then better electronics
come out and some guy shows up with that and
you're like, we're fucked now, you know, like you're like, no,
it's not now we're not gonna do any good because

(44:45):
he's got something better. That's pretty cool though, m let's
see that.

Speaker 7 (44:49):
So was this study, did it like compare it against
field points and mechanicals or what were the broadheads that
were being used.

Speaker 4 (44:56):
We we used Ironwald broadheads in the study, but we
can pared him to field points. So what we looked
at was like for accuracy, we use a bow that's
out of tune, so you know, a bow intune means basically,
when it leaves, your bow is going in a straight line,
you know, at the target, the knox pushing directly in
line er comes off straight. That's really what a tune

(45:18):
bow means. Untuned bow, like we would take it out
of tune so that it would come out, say, tail
left right out of the boat.

Speaker 9 (45:25):
Yu.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
When we were young, we just thought it was like
just the how it was that your arrow fishtails. Yeah,
that your arrow fishtail for fifteen yards. It's just the reality.
It's like a comforting feeling to see it just kind
of fishtail out eventually straight out.

Speaker 4 (45:44):
With like a long bow or something where you're not
cut to center the bow is the arrow is going
to have to you know, flex around the riser and
there's a special Yeah, it'd be like a perfect stiffness
to get that to go straight.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
Is that the archer's paradox?

Speaker 4 (45:58):
It is?

Speaker 1 (45:59):
Yeah, we named episode that one time, right, Yeah, I
listened to that one. Yeah, you had a problem with
that one.

Speaker 4 (46:06):
I did you wonder why whenever I hear things that
defy the laws of physics, I got to speak up.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
Something deep in your brain goes off.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
A lot of a lot of those like modern recurves
and stuff are cut like when I was building them,
like an eighth past center or center cut. But then
there's you know, problems with strong risers. You know, lot
goes into it.

Speaker 4 (46:37):
Yeah, with with recurves and using fingers, there's just a
lot more happening there. You know, in a compound, you
can really adjust your rest and you know your bow
set up so that you're knocks getting pushed your strengths
pushing your knock in a straight line and the arrows
coming straight off the bow. Some people, some people teach
different ways of tone, but I mean that's really the best,

(46:58):
having your air coming perfect straight and you know that's
how you can achieve the best flight. But really this study,
I know, nobody's perfect, and a lot of people aren't
great at tuning their bow. So part of this study was, okay,
if yourro's not coming straight off your bow, it's actually
coming out tail left. One of the tests we do
is we'll just shoot a fletch shaft versus a bear shaft.

(47:20):
It's say thirty and forty yards because a bear shaft
and we'll add some tape maybe to get the weight
the same, but a bear shaft will come out tail
left and then it'll just stay that angle and it'll
end up hitting right.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
Oh, get out there, Yeah that's in yeah, of course, right,
nothing's pulling it back.

Speaker 4 (47:36):
Yes, that's a great way to test is my bow
really tuned or not. Take a bear shaft versus a
flet shaft just to feel points. I'd say thirty yards.
Thirty yards is pretty good. Forty yards and you do
it a few times. If they're not hitting like the same,
then it means you know your form or something else
is wrong with your bow.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
But yeah, I don't know why it never occurred to me,
but yeah, yeah, no, fletching is never going to recover,
right right. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:59):
So in this stuff we had it so that a
bear cheft was hitting a foot right of a flat
shaft at forty So this is way out of tune
really even with that one.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
In that case, is the knock on? Is the knock
lined up? Or is the center of the arrow lined up? Like?
What is on target? Mean? If you if you shot it,
no fletching and it kicks left and it just says
like that and goes in and then you're standing from
your perspective, some part of your arrow is going to

(48:28):
cross the bull's eye maybe like center when you're looking
at it. Is that not true? Or is that true?

Speaker 4 (48:35):
Yeah, it's kind of. It's kind of difficult when it's
tip when it's tipped in an angle to like basically
the the wind direction. At that point it ends up
with the veins. It will just quickly get get put
straight back on, you know, without it, it's it's probably
tipping back a little bit towards it. But yeah, what

(48:55):
part I mean, the whole arrow was kind of getting
thrown at the bull's eye, but it's gonna end up
drifting right, just because the way the airflow is in the.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Pressure, So the whole arrow drift right, not okay, I
got you. That'll continue on that drifting path.

Speaker 4 (49:06):
So what you see is your fletch arrow might be
in the bull's eye, but your your bear chaft will be.
In this case, it was a foot right, and you
can see the back of the arrow is tipped tail.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
I guess that's my question. The knock is right too,
because it drifts because the arrow drifted. Yeah, I got you.

Speaker 4 (49:21):
Yeah, yeah, you follow.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
That question, doctor Randall. No, I didn't teach you that
that doctor.

Speaker 8 (49:26):
School archery is an area of profound ignorance in my world.

Speaker 7 (49:31):
So what vein setups were all testing? Did you have
like four veins and did you have three inch? Did
you test any like of the fobs that have become
sexy in the last few years.

Speaker 4 (49:40):
We didn't test the fobs we had. Let's see, we
had Blazers, Max Hunters, Max Stealth, Silent Nights feather into
the mix just for fun. I've tested, uh feathers in
the past, and they are so loud. I don't think
people realize that it's funny. One, yeah, man, it's funny when.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
I've watched the movies.

Speaker 4 (50:03):
Yeah, it's funny when people will say like, oh, that's
you know, that's a loudhead or something, and then you
shooting feathers. I'm like, I can show you the data
that shows that those feathers are so much louder than
anything else.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
Is that right?

Speaker 4 (50:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (50:17):
How did you?

Speaker 4 (50:18):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (50:19):
What's the reason for the the textured? When I say textured,
the veins rippled it looks like a sting ray file
a for you just to draw very vivid in its
what that looks like?

Speaker 3 (50:30):
Would it be more drag?

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (50:33):
You know, we to be honest, I don't know why
that made this a little better. We're just kind of
within without, but we looked at all the results and
we we you know, we looked at drag dragon sound
were reduced with these ridges and this particular vein material.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
Are you guys selling just the veins? You gotta buy
the whole Damn, we're selling the veins to like, bring
a little pile of them.

Speaker 4 (50:56):
I didn't. I could ship you some.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
So it'd be it's less drag with the the little
ripples in those veins.

Speaker 4 (51:06):
Yeah. Yeah, and you know, like I'm not sure if
this is applicable, but you know a golf ball has
little dimples in it, it'll change like the airflow over
it and the turbulence, and that's an improvement.

Speaker 3 (51:19):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Oh they play golf with no dimples.

Speaker 4 (51:23):
Well, I don't know if they did, but I know
dimples in the golf ball make it, you know, go further.
It changes the airflow across it.

Speaker 7 (51:29):
They did play with the smooth ball. I think it
was an accident when they stumbled on that. The like
dimples made a difference.

Speaker 5 (51:35):
So we need those dimples to make it go straight. Now,
if I can just keep the ball straight. I mean,
I'll drive it four hundred every time.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Yeah. Uh, that's interesting though. So but when you got
here's my question about the researchers, you had to fund it.

Speaker 4 (51:53):
I did, yeah, but since i'm the directory, they pay
me to to direct it. So it worked out pretty good.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
And then, uh, because you weren't previously made, you weren't
previously making a fletching, so you didn't have you weren't
in there with a bias.

Speaker 4 (52:12):
No, And I really just wanted to like be able
to say to our customers, we get so many questions
about what vein should I use and how will this
vein work? And so I wanted to study them all
in this testing And now I have all the data
and I can say, yeah, this one man works pretty good.
This one has a little more drag, but it's fine.
So it was really that's that was the reason for

(52:33):
the study. And then I worked with AAE that that
made some of the veins that were in the study
and just got ribbon material from them so that we
could laser cut different shapes in them. And they sent
me materials with different stiffnesses, different you know, with and
without ribbing things like that. So we had a bunch
of things a prototype and test as well, and we

(52:53):
found this one that it did a great job with accuracy, stability,
but then reduced drag and sound. And you know, I
can have my bow out of tune. I currently have
my bow out of tune. You know, it is hitting
four inches right, fourty five inches you right at forty
So just a little out of tune. Not terrible, But
I can hit the same point of impact with broadheads
and field points up to one hundred yards with a

(53:15):
bow a little out of tune with this vein on it,
you know, it just does a great job stabilize it.
So when I was seeing that, I'm like, I just
decided we're just gonna, you know, offer this vein as
well as a fletched arrow to customers that want it.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
How much do you shoot? How much you shoot field points? Man?

Speaker 4 (53:30):
I shoot them. I shoot field points and broadheads typically,
you know together like every day do.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
You just by mean, are you shooting them just to
save on because you know, I got a feeling you
got a good line on broadheads. Are you shooting them
just to save on targets?

Speaker 4 (53:47):
It saves on targets. I don't shoot up targets as much. Yeah,
and also I don't need to shoot well. If I'm
shooting groups at distance, I still wreck I still wreck things.
If I shoot three broad head, it's you know, some
cut in veins. I'm hitting one broad hand to another
part of it is if I'm going to shoot a
group of eighty yards, I'll shoot one broadhad two field points.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Yeah, I know why I shoot them. I was just
curious a fella in your position while you're shooting. But
you still you stilln't like just destroy everything, you know,
and all the time.

Speaker 4 (54:16):
Yeah, right, I mean I want to. I like to
shoot a lot just to keep in practice and be
able to you know, I find just shooting daily or
maybe skip a day here and there, but just shooting
a lot. I just keep my form consistent. But yeah,
there's no need to shoot broadheads all the time.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
Did the college already have an arrow shooter?

Speaker 4 (54:37):
No, No, so I supplied like a it's a hooter.
Shooter is the name of the machine, but it's a
shooting machine. We got the labradar, and so we got
some of the equipment they needed there for the test.

Speaker 7 (54:49):
You know Kent State University that we get the Yeah,
we were talking to them about doing some other fun projects.
They don't have one hooter shooter. They have two hooter
shooters that they use for their experiments.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
I always thinks that would be like a shot that
you'd get at Hooters. If I heard that it could
be speaking of you know, he just sent me Met
and Aaron just sent me a pretty interesting academic article
that has to do with like, you know, how how

(55:24):
Clovis points why they're so mesmerizing and why people are
so fixated on them, and and like, you know, for
a fellow such as yourself, not that you have one,
but tattoos, paintings, people, you can lay out a bunch
of uh, you can lay out a bunch of stone
projectile points, and people are going to point to that one.

(55:48):
And it's it's what is the art like what is
the artistic merit? Right? So, so they talked all these
art and design people to be and then some people
say it's so beautiful that it must have been part
of its design. Must have been its beauty, Like there's
aspects of it that don't make sense from a functional standpoint,

(56:10):
like why would you go through all the hassle? It
must have been that they knew that it was beautiful,
They knew that it was art. So his paper I
read the what do you call it up top? I
read the abs distract? Yeah, basically, yeah, basically why are
Clovis points? So like, why do songwriters want to write

(56:30):
songs about Clovis points and they're not writing songs about
I don't know all the other ones? Do you do
you share that same sentiment? I've never written song about those, No, like.

Speaker 7 (56:43):
Aesthetically, aesthetically the please I wrote a song about doctor Randall,
Oh you did about Yanni.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
My song about Dr Ranadal's about how he can't actually
prescribe drugs, So it doesn't really matter.

Speaker 8 (56:55):
Someone sent in another song based on your song to
Roam and he shared it with me the other day.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
But do I share the idea that there's something about him?

Speaker 7 (57:05):
Like esthetically, they're the most pleasing absolute there's something there,
there's something there, there's something that appeals to the modern
there's something that appeals to the modern eye.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Yeah, Bill Man, I'm glad we get I'm glad you're
letting us uh be a I don't know you called
a dealer to use that word. Yeah, you're letting us
carry some of your products on her site.

Speaker 4 (57:25):
Man, yeah, you'll be the the one and only seriously,
really that's selling them besides us, you know online? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (57:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Are we going to sell the veins do you? Guys?

Speaker 4 (57:36):
You can? Oh, I don't think it's set up to
do it initially.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
But hustle now because you're gonna be wanting those veins,
right and if you want.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
To, I'm gonna get some of those veins for sure.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
Huh. Well, thanks for coming out, man, as always, tell
me about the new Tell me again about the new
head you got.

Speaker 4 (57:54):
Yeah, so it's a wide, single bevel. We came out
with single bevel broadhead.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
Yeah, sell me real quick on so I know we've
talked about this, but tell me again on when people
argue about single or double is just mental masturbation or what?
What do you think on it? Well, they are different,
but you both perform really well. But when you when
you do because you're looking at things, You're looking at
things empirically right, You're not just being like I got
a nice I got a huge bowl with this, so

(58:19):
it must be the best. I mean. Tell me, yeah,
So from a from a sign, from a from an
engineering perspective, what are you getting and not getting what
are you sacrificing and not sacrificing?

Speaker 4 (58:30):
And also tell people what the hell single bevel means. Yeah,
so a single bevel verus double bevel. The edge itself
on a single bevel. It's all ground from one side
of the blade, so the other side of the blade
is just flat and all the grind is on one side.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Like some super fine, high quality sushi knives are single bevel.
But if you open your knife drawer, all your shit's
double bevel.

Speaker 4 (58:54):
Pretty much, everything's double bebble and there's a Yeah, they
grind from both sides of the blade to come together
and make a sharp point.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
Oh you know what your ice augurs? Single bevel? Mm hmm, yeah,
it's about it.

Speaker 4 (59:08):
Things that shave. I think there's like cheese shave, things
that shave where they're just wanting to push.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Oh yeah, like your razor that you shave with in
the morning, right, singler double?

Speaker 4 (59:18):
I think those are I think those are singles. Okay, yeah,
But like if you take a double bubble and put
it down through a block of cheese, it's going to
go if you're gonna like cut in half, it'll go straight.
But if you have a single bebbel knife and put
it down through it like a block of cheese. It's
going to push off to the side because that pressure
will make it when I push on.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
When you get to the end of the block, you
got a big old kurvy cheese. Right.

Speaker 4 (59:39):
So what happens when that goes through an animal is
all that pressure on one side and and you what
you do is you grind you know, say, the left
side on the top and the right side on the
bottom of the blade, so that when it goes through
an animal and all the pressures on those bebbles, it
creates a rotation of the broadhead true the animal. So
and you think that that's true, that is true. It's

(01:00:01):
not just in theory, No, that's that's true. I mean
we've we've done it with high speed video. We've looked
at it going through different mediums, going through animals as well,
and we do see that it does rotate.

Speaker 7 (01:00:12):
There's some great YouTube videos where guys will shoot a
single bevel versus a double bevel through like a shoulder
blade of a critter. And when you see the maybe
I'm understanding this wrong, but when you see this double
bevel go through it looks like the footprint of the broadhead, Like,
it looks like you could just shove that thing through there,
and you know exactly what happened there. With a single bevel, though,

(01:00:34):
it's like a hole. It's like a drill went through there,
and you don't quite see the outline of the broadhead
as much.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Right, Let's say you're passing that arrow through one hundred
and fifty pounds white tail. Yeah, okay, you hit it
behind the shoulder or wherever the hell you hit it
anywhere you want. How many rotations that is it actually
going to get done? That's a good question.

Speaker 4 (01:00:55):
Much. Really, it's like maybe one. It depends a little
bit what it goes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
It's not like a drill, so it's.

Speaker 4 (01:01:01):
Not like a drill.

Speaker 7 (01:01:01):
But when you look at the shoulder blade, one looks
like is like the size of a shot glass, right,
and the other one, like I said, it is like
the footprint of the broadhead. Is how they look?

Speaker 4 (01:01:14):
Well, we see this through the hide.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
Do you believe you're right? Do you agree with him?

Speaker 4 (01:01:18):
It does change the shape of the hole and we
see this through hide. That with a single bevel or
with a double bebbl you're pretty much getting a cross cut.
Say you have bleeders, so you got a cross blade,
you're pretty much just getting that that cross cut through
the hide and through the tissue, organs, whatever with with
a single bubbl with that rotation, and I like a
single bebble with bleeders. And we also do that single

(01:01:40):
belvel grind on the bleeders because I like a cross
cut anyway to kind of open up holes. But if
you do that and it rotates, now the entrance and
exit holes through the high they're almost square. They are
more rounded, even though as you mentioned, there's not a
ton of rotation. It's not like a drill, but it
seems like twisting the hide or tissue as it's cutting
does change the whole shape like that God, and you

(01:02:02):
can see it through through lungs, liver or whatever too.
It's got a little different shape to it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
Correct correct me if I'm wrong. When you're shooting a
single bevel, it's pretty important to match up. Like let's
say you got a left wing feather. You want a
left bevel on your on your single bevel broadheads so
it doesn't spin the opposite way you want to spin
the same.

Speaker 4 (01:02:25):
That is very important.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:02:26):
You want your arrow, well, you want it to be
rotating to begin with, So you don't want straight fleshed.
You want some I like two or three degrees offset
or vehicle on your veins to create some rotation of
the arrow.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:02:36):
That kind of helps average out in any asymmetries in there,
if you can get the thing to spin on the
way there.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
When I'm throwing a big old spiral man on top
right and then on spencer goes out for the bomb, and then.

Speaker 4 (01:02:51):
On impact, you want to just keep rotating the same
way it was going, I'd have to like stop and
rotate the direction. That would lose energy.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
Yeah. Yeah, we do have a video on our YouTube,
so you got to be cognizant of that and line
that up. Wait or is it always or is it
always that same twist?

Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
Yeah, you don't have to really line anything up. It's
just the way you fletch. If you're like there as
we sell our right fletch.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
So I'm saying, but do you ever see a guy
that has his deal rigged up where he's got a
right spin on the fletching and a left spin on
the bevel but doesn't realize it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
Yeah, once in a while, and we have some We
have like a YouTube video just explaining how to figure
out if you've got a right or left fletch and
a right left single bowbel, just so people can make
sure they match the two.

Speaker 7 (01:03:32):
Yeah, was there a period in time, like the nineteen
eighties when everything was double bevel? Did like single bevel
become popular more recently?

Speaker 4 (01:03:43):
I think there has always been some very thin, you know,
cheaply made blades that were single bubbel because it's cheaper
to make them that win, And a lot of those
are made on these like real to real metal stamping
machines where a coil of there's a coil of steel
on one end, a blaze are coming out the other,
and they if they can just grind one side, it's
a quick way to do it. So there are some.

(01:04:05):
I think it's always been used kind of an industry
in some products where it's a very thin blade and
it's going to be really cheaply made. So I think
it's always shown up somewhat because of that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
Here's a dumb question. Could you have a three blade
broadhead that's single bevel?

Speaker 4 (01:04:22):
You could? There are a few author really do that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
Why why would you want to do that again.

Speaker 4 (01:04:28):
You could get a little rotation with it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
That's it.

Speaker 4 (01:04:33):
It's if you're doing a real real it's probably cheaper
to make the blade, So it might be I mean
that's a driving That's a driving factor for a lot
of broadheads out there is how cheap can I make
this thing? You know, just to drive the margins higher?
So a lot of decisions are based on that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
Uh, speaking of blades, me and Randall are working on
this project about the long hunters and then the beaver trappers.

Speaker 7 (01:05:03):
Hm.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
So it'll be like a book, but not a book.
It'll be an audio imagine, like a matt like a lecture,
like the world's greatest lecture, the world's greatest explaining everything
about the long hunters, the deer hide hunters like Boone,
you know, and in this work and I got to
see in what they're what Boon's hatchet you'd hear like

(01:05:28):
tomahawk and hatchet, tomahawk hatchet. The best guess at what
his hatchet would have looked like. Yeah, And had that
dude was a dude, people should check him out on Instagram.
Riley Kirkpatrick Kirkpatrick Ford. Can you look what is he
on Instagram. Can someone look Kirkpatrick Ford Forge. I sent

(01:05:50):
him the pictures he made me one of those, the hatchet.
So it's just like a like just what Boon's hatchet
probably would have looked like?

Speaker 4 (01:05:58):
Is it a single buffler or don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
That's why I'm bringing it up, double bubble.

Speaker 7 (01:06:04):
Is there a definition difference between a tomahawk and a hatchet?
In my mind that tomahawk is thrown or is that
not not that simple?

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
No, it's just a head shape difference my understanding. It's
got that straight shaft and a different kind of head.
And they used to make it with what they call it, Randall,
that whole tear drop. I don't know what they call it.

Speaker 8 (01:06:23):
I'm talking about like that, and you get a different Yeah, yeah,
she get a different partner for this project.

Speaker 4 (01:06:29):
Huh.

Speaker 6 (01:06:30):
I can't tell you, Kirkpatrick Forge.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
It is that good research? So did you know put
that in your little notepad there? Randall? What is the
official difference? It's like, what's the diference between a prawn
and a shrimp? Depends who you ask?

Speaker 9 (01:06:45):
What is the difference depending on.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
So there's like, yeah, I've never found a satisfactory answer.
People generally call huge shrimp prawns, and there's some regional variations.
But there's also some stuff that I'm not sure about,
how the plates on its body, on its abdomen, how
the plates overlap. But I don't know if that's horseshit
or not.

Speaker 6 (01:07:05):
Another area of profound ignorance.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
You know, in my mind. But my hatchet is bad ass,
and I'm gonna post a video. He makes these videos,
how he makes the stuff. It's pretty cool man. He
makes like it's amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:07:17):
So you know, Jordan Jonas, he won alone one of
the alone seasons with them, he got a He shot
a moose with a with his bow and then the
wolverine was trying to get the meat and he killed
it with a with an axe. Anyways, that's a single
bubble axe. It's a traditional Siberian axe. And I got
to be friends with him. He sent me, sent me

(01:07:38):
the ax, so I had it for a while. It's
got a notch in there for every day, I think
seventy days he was there.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
But he gave you the axe.

Speaker 4 (01:07:44):
He sent it to me because I actually did a
CAD model and we were thinking about get some made
actually gotch But anyway, it's a single bubble. So they
use that to like shave bark off of trees and
things like that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
But where are they filming that that they can they
can buy animals without needing tags? Do they pulled all
in Nunovac.

Speaker 3 (01:08:04):
Canada like Vancouver Islanders.

Speaker 6 (01:08:07):
In different I think they get different places.

Speaker 4 (01:08:09):
I think they get hunting licenses and they can just shoot, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
There's no way that dude that there's a guy that
killed the muskox. He didn't draw a muskox tag. I
can tell you that. And he wasn't hunting with a
guide or he was. But it's like, I'd love to
know whether I think that some of that was Nunavak.
So they're like, actually they're able to buy the animals
from the from the from the what do they call
First Nations person? They're able to buy animals from the

(01:08:33):
First Nations people because you're not You can't hunt big
game in Canada without a guide.

Speaker 4 (01:08:38):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:08:40):
Puzzled by that, I had a casting lady called me
up about that show, remember.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
That Chester, because Chester makes bows well quit.

Speaker 7 (01:08:47):
Yeah, I recently got a message about out being on
a dating show for rural folks.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
So if we have anyone in the office here. You
can put them on that well, and they wanted you
to date. They wanted you to date. Yep, tell you're married.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
I did like Farmers.

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
You know, I don't know it was around the time
because you're the host of the trivia show. No, I don't.
I don't think so. I think it was.

Speaker 7 (01:09:09):
I would imagine a hundred folks on Instagram got this
same canned message about being on this dating show for
like hunters, anglers, farmers. Uh, just rural folks is how
they described it.

Speaker 6 (01:09:23):
Man, I'm not getting awkward conversation with my wife.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
You do well on there.

Speaker 6 (01:09:30):
I'm not getting any casting queries. I can only.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
Hope I'd be like, you know, baby, we've had a
good thing going. But I had an opportunities. Really all right, Darren,
I want to jop Okay, So that was like that

(01:09:54):
was we had, Like I want to get back to the.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
Story after the nerd session is over.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
Every time I talk to Bill, I feel stupid.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
It's just like, you know, this guy's a genius.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
Yeah, but that's why it's people. There's like people around
and it makes it you don't have to think about stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:10:10):
Yeah, it's perfect with me. Was like hey, he's like, hey,
We're gonna make this arrow for you. I'm like, great,
I have.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
It's like I got like a lot of opinions about
a lot of kinds of uh. I have a lot
of well earned opinions about rifles, ammunition, knives, apparel. But
for whatever reason, I've just taken for whatever reason, when
it comes to archery, I have a you tell me attitude.

(01:10:39):
I just know who I'm going to ask exactly I know,
and I'm gonna go because there's a thing that I'm
guilty of it. Other people are guilty of it. You
have a great experience, right, Like you do something and
you hit a ball and the bull takes two steps
of tips over or whatever, or it's a really big bowl,
and then the rest of your you're like, by god,

(01:11:02):
you know, I like a right hand twist. Did you
see how big my bull was? And you're kind of
like yeah, but you could have run eight arrow Like
I don't know, could you have run eight different aerow
configurations through that bowl and the same thing would have
happened or not? Like it's so there's so much anecdotal
right or some guys like I'll never use that broadhead
again I lost a bull.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
Well maybe you should have put on me.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
Like I don't know, do you know what I'm saying, Like,
I don't know. And so you can get drowned by
the unless you have just like experience after experience after
experience after experience, you can get drowned in the anecdotal.
Oh absolutely, So I just like to have people, I know,
I always talk to Phelips. I like hearing what Bill
has to say.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
Yeah, it was the same way.

Speaker 5 (01:11:45):
You know in football, everybody's got it, you know, there's
always a different way to do something right, like especially
past rushing, because it is ultimately football is a violent
game of chess, is what it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
Is all the show. I saw the episode that man, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:12:00):
It's it's just a violent game of chess. And it
is like how you fail. It's that's why it's the
relation between bow hunting and football to me is so
it's so strong because, Hm, you fail so much, like
you fail way more than you succeed on the football field.
And in those failures you have to find like the
weakness that like that you created. So I'm always like

(01:12:23):
doing something to set something up later. Right, So when
it comes to pass rushing, I'm gonna I'll bull rush
a guy, right, So I'll just come off and just
power him, just go put my head under his chin,
put my hands in his chest and drive him back. Well,
what's that gonna do the next time? Next time he's
gonna be like, he's gonna probably bullrush me again. So
I'm gonna still a little heavier. Then I try to
get by him, swipe his hands, move, you know, do something,

(01:12:43):
and then okay, that that that might have worked. So
I kind of try to swipe his hands again, so
he oversets. Then I spin off of that. So then
you know, that's that's what it turns into. It turns
into just like this dance. And for me it was
the same way with you know, I grew up hunting
white tail and in Turkey because Ohio northeast Ohio, so
that's what I was primarily primarily hunting. So western hunting

(01:13:04):
was so like I always wanted to do spot in
stocks because you can't spot in stock whitetail in Ohio
because it's good luck. You know, you're just like you're
not going it's not gonna work.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
You start out young.

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
Yeah, I killed my first white tail when I was thirteen,
fourteen years old, and.

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
That was back when you had to know. That was
back when you had to wait a while, right, It's
not like now you just like start your kid hunting
whenever you feel like it.

Speaker 5 (01:13:25):
Well, I think, well I started. I started like pheasant
hunting when I was like nine or ten. So you
were like, I think it's like nine or ten is
like the cut off that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
Yeah, a lot of that, A lot of that's changed
so much. But I'm quite a bit older than you are,
and you had to be like you couldn't you couldn't
hunt deer with a gun to you're fourteen?

Speaker 5 (01:13:43):
Oh wow, See I killed my first deer with the bow.
Yeah that was a and it was I took a
climber out and was on a buddy's farm, and yeah,
I just like first buck that showed its fate, you know,
showed its antler's This little four pointer just showed up
and I just started losing my mind up there and yeah,
put a good shot.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
On me, ran fourteen yards and died.

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
But but you weren't hunting with your dad though.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
No, No, I don't know my dad. I was hunting
with friends.

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
Like, could you mind laying that out quick for me.

Speaker 5 (01:14:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
Yeah, so so I grew up. My mom married a
guy when I was three months old, got married. It
wasn't my dad.

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
Have you tracked your dad down though?

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
No, tried. I can't find she's going, No, she doesn't.
My mom doesn't know who it is.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
But have you gone done like the twenty three.

Speaker 5 (01:14:24):
And yeah, we've done all that stuff and I'm upset
now and they have now they have my DNA and
I don't like that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
But they're not finding matches.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
Ain't not finding any matches.

Speaker 5 (01:14:32):
Cluster they found out like where I'm from, like the
Scandinavian Fiking background and stuff, but it goes from Scandinavia
to Ireland and straight to Appalasia.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
Yeah, because I gathered sometimes they'll be it'll be that,
oh in some neighborhood in Cleveland, right, there's a bunch
of Yeah, that seems like.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
You couldn't find anything.

Speaker 5 (01:14:53):
Had a lot of leads that could you know, people
like oh he kind of looks like you, or he's
big or this that, and it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
You know, not Chester.

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
Yeah, it's just we could find it.

Speaker 5 (01:15:07):
So so that's why you know, when I got intro
I got introduced to hunting by my stepdad. But his
idea of hunting was like he'd hand me it a
four to ten and sit me under a tree and
tell me not to move, and I'd sit there and
freeze for four hours and then we'd leave.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
That's not bad advice. Yeah, he was better than giving
you four to ten and telling you to move. Yeah, exactly,
it was good.

Speaker 5 (01:15:27):
I mean he'd say, yeah, sit here, don't move, and
then he'd go off and wander off somewhere and then
tell me he'll be back to get me, and I'd
be sitting in just shivering, like it didn't matter if
a deer came, I couldn't move it anyways to shoot it.
So that was my idea of hunting with him. So
then I when I met a friend when I was
in middle school who was really in a bow hunting and.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
His brother was a little bit a little bit taller.

Speaker 5 (01:15:48):
So when I was when I was like thirteen twelve
thirteen fourteen, I was shooting like a probably like a
twenty eight inch draw or something like that, so I
could just pick up a grown man's bow and start
shooting it. So I started shooting this old psc that
he had. It was like his old bow, and I
was just like it was just like a natural thing
for me. It just had no problem put in the

(01:16:09):
arrow where I wanted it to go.

Speaker 2 (01:16:10):
It just made sense.

Speaker 5 (01:16:11):
So I really like picked it up then and I
was obsessed with it. The problem was is that football
kind of got in the way of that because September
and September, October, November is football season all the way
into December, so you really you're getting like late season
hunts or all that that are available. So once I
got into the to college, I didn't get to hunt

(01:16:32):
much at all. I was like every now and then
type of thing.

Speaker 3 (01:16:34):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:16:34):
So it's like if I had a you only get
two weeks off a year in college football, that's all
you get. So if it was like, you know, we
were playing in a BCS game in January or something,
we'd get like a little four day weekend where we
could I could dip off up to northeast Ohio and
hit somebody's farm and I would just you know, shoot
the first thing it came, so I guess it meat.
And that's kind of how it went. So, and I

(01:16:55):
never had my I didn't have my own bow anymore.
I couldn't afford one. So I like when I got draft,
I had seven dollars to my name, didn't have a
bank account, huh, didn't have I didn't pay I paid
everything in cash because I had a pel grant. I
just cashed that check and pay on my rent and
everything out of that. I was on scholarship, so they
just paid for all the other stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:17:13):
So I didn't have any any concept of like, you know,
buying like a fifteen hundred dollars matthews.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
Around any kind of money.

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
No, No, there.

Speaker 5 (01:17:22):
Was everybody's pretty The averaging come in my hometown is
like sixteen thousand a year, so it's it's a pretty
poor area, but a lot of hunters. Everybody hunts, you know.
It's like we get the first day, the first day
of opening shotgun season, everybody's off from school. Nobody goes
to school that day. It's they just call it off.
So it's a big deal where I come from. But
that's also another thing why I didn't really like gun hunting,

(01:17:43):
because we'd go out and to public land and and
gun hunting it was like you had to dodge bullets
the whole time because if a deer jumped up and ran.
It was like five or six you know, different groups
of people shooting at the same deer running across the
ridge and you're standing on that ridge and you just
hear the bullets whizzing by, and it's like, you know,
those are big slugs, you know, So they're really only

(01:18:05):
one hundred yards away from you, so they're not far.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
They know that you're up there. What are you shooting
up here for? So it was just dangerous.

Speaker 5 (01:18:11):
So I just enjoyed bow hunting better because you're sitting
in a tree stand, you're kind of you know, there's
a strategy involved. So that's why like when I started
l hunting, when I was finally able to l hunt,
which was you know, I waited ten years in the
NFL to living in Denver and seeing all my buddies
getting to go and this and that, and I was like, man,
I would love to go, but I had no idea
about the point draw and all this and that. So

(01:18:33):
my first time getting to go elk hunt and really
like seeing how it's the same type of chess match.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
It is.

Speaker 5 (01:18:40):
Everything can go right, but if that bull decides he
doesn't want to just take another step out of now
from behind that tree, it's kind of over for you.
Or if the wind switches on you, like all these
factors go in go into it, and everything has to
happen for a reason, like you're making these moves prior, Like, Okay,
I've spotted this bowl over on this ridge, so how

(01:19:00):
do I get there? I have to make all these
different moves over hours of like four or five hours
to get myself in position with the wind being right,
so I can make a move on this bowl. And
there's something about that that I just I love it,
like I love the planning of it, and I love
the even the failure. I always learned something in that failure. Right,
It's just the same way on a football field, if

(01:19:20):
it didn't work, I learned something from it. I'm not
going to go out there and try the same thing,
you know, I'm gonna let's let's switch it up and
try a different route. And that's something I loved. And
then what I also loved is, you know, I said
this on the Go Hunt podcast. I was talking about,
you know, when I was finally able to release an
arrow on a bull. I've won, I've sacked quarterbacks and
Super bowls, I've sacked Tom Brady in AFC Championship Games.

(01:19:45):
Eighty thousand people screaming, howling, you know, because my last
thing is wolves, so they howled.

Speaker 2 (01:19:50):
So like that feeling is very surreal.

Speaker 5 (01:19:53):
Like when you sack somebody and jump up and howl
and then the whole crowd does it with you. There's something
that goes that. But I've never felt the kind of
emotions I felt when I was finally able to put
my first bull down. I mean I didn't, I just
is screaming.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
I'm just like, just like you finally released it, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:20:11):
But but when I was finally able to put an
arrow through through a bowl and put my hands on him,
nothing is I'm telling When I was listening when I
was seven years old, I was I was six years old,
I White were Bill and I were talking about this.
I watched Reggie White and the Green Bay Packers and
Brett Favre win a Super Bowl go pack and I
was a huge Packers fan, and I was like, I

(01:20:33):
watched Reggie White grab that Lombardi Trophy and he put
his Super Bowl Championship T shirt over his pads in
Jersey and carried that thing around, and I was like
I want to do that. That's like that was my vision, right,
That's what I want to do. That's what like sparked
it right away. And I started playing tackle football next year.
So my dream was to do that. Well I got
to do that, and I got to carry that Super

(01:20:53):
Bowl trophy around and it was like I when you
reached like a goal, it's like point zero zero one
percent of people get to actually live out their childhood dream, right,
Like It's such a small, small occasion. But I always
dreamed of bell hunting. It seems so far out of
touch for me, Like it seemed like something I would
never be able to attain growing up in Ohio. Like I,

(01:21:14):
like I said, it was poor. You know, how am
I going to get to Colorado? How am I gonna
get to Montana?

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
Like that thing?

Speaker 5 (01:21:19):
These things seem so far out of touch. So when
I was finally able to do that, it was a
stronger emotion than I had ever felt in my life. Really,
when I was finally able to connect with a bull
and just like the whole the whole experience right here
in a bull come in just screaming and just so
you feel it rattling in your chest. It's an unexplainable
feeling unless you've been around it, and you don't even

(01:21:41):
have to hunt to do it. You just go out
in the you know, take go middle of September, go
down to New Mexico and see what that's like. It's
like Jurassic Park out there, you know. So that was
you know, my first my first bull was like the
best feeling I've.

Speaker 2 (01:21:53):
Ever had in my life, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:21:54):
And I just feel bad saying, act I have a
daughter and all this stuff, but like this, yeah, this
is a different accomplishment, right. I didn't really do anything
on that. On the child birthday, I just was there.

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
I didn't have to do much, you know, but do.

Speaker 1 (01:22:08):
My When my first kid was born, I passed out,
really because they got off that big ass spinal tap
deal needle all for the epidural. Yeah, I passed out, man,
That was I later told the nurse. I said, man,
I could eat your arm and it wouldn't bother me,
But you're getting ready to drive that needle in my
wife's back.

Speaker 3 (01:22:29):
Have you ever passed out before?

Speaker 1 (01:22:31):
No, I don't run around pass No, I don't know.
I kind of tried to spin it off and blame
various things like I had sounds like your wife's fault,
had nothing to eat, nothing like that, you know. But yeah,
because they're.

Speaker 5 (01:22:42):
So bad for my wife when she was getting at there,
because she was having contractions while they were putting that
into her spine, and I was just like.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
I was, I was freaking out. I was so sketched out.

Speaker 1 (01:22:50):
Yeah, and there was like there's some little complication while
they're trying to get everything hurried along, you know, yep,
because well they they're monitoring the heart, you know whatever.
I can't remember the details now, it was it got stressful,
and it's so like we're gonna it can't be one way,
We're gonna do it the other way. And and I
woke up out in the hallway and heading his nurse's
lap verybody else doing. Did you miss the just envisioned

(01:23:20):
Hi dragging him out, so my vision.

Speaker 6 (01:23:22):
He wrapped up like a little baby, like.

Speaker 2 (01:23:27):
They brought me that little.

Speaker 1 (01:23:30):
Like this one's already circumcised.

Speaker 3 (01:23:33):
My gosh.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
Uh, when you got when you got blown up so
bad about when you got so blown up so bad
about the lion, did it change any thing about your
behavior or anything?

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
Yeah? It did. It changed a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:23:53):
I felt like a sense of responsibility, right, And the
responsibility side of it was that, Okay, now I can
see what kind of attack that we're really under as hunters. Yeah,
is that what I saw? I could see it that
it's a really planned out attack. And somebody, you know,
a guy named Lou Webb, who's just an awesome guy,
you know, he gave mid this analogy for me. He

(01:24:14):
was like, look, he's like, as hunters, we have to
be like an el curd.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
What are the wolves try to do? The el curd?

Speaker 5 (01:24:21):
They try to split them apart and pick out the
week and kill the week. Right, They pick them out
and they start and then that's how you kill them,
as you you separate the herd, and then they follow
one kill it and get another one kill it. So
if we want to stay together and keep this lifestyle,
we have to put aside all of our egotistical.

Speaker 2 (01:24:39):
You know, garbage.

Speaker 1 (01:24:40):
Really And it's like, Okay, who cares if.

Speaker 5 (01:24:43):
You're a gun hunter or you're a rifle hunter, or
you're a crossbow hunter, or you're a long bow hunter,
or you're a traditional bow hunter or you're a compound
bow hunter. I don't care. I don't care what kind
of broadhead you shoot. I don't care any of that stuff.
That stuff does not matter, because at the end of
the day, if we don't, if we keep infighting and
arguing with each other and trying to like take each
other down, they're gonna win because they have millions upon

(01:25:05):
hundreds of millions.

Speaker 2 (01:25:06):
Of dollars back in them.

Speaker 5 (01:25:08):
You know, this industry doesn't have that kind of money.
We have to spend that money just to keep the
wildlife safe and ready to go for us.

Speaker 2 (01:25:15):
To hunt them.

Speaker 5 (01:25:15):
You know, the amount of money that we spend on
gear and stuff, like, they are spending all that money
just on ending it, ending it. They don't want us
to do it, like something about it they hate. They
don't care that you can't reason with them. And I
feel a sense of responsibility to try to bring us
together as hunters and try to keep us in that
tight little group and like stick together.

Speaker 2 (01:25:36):
You know, so I did.

Speaker 5 (01:25:37):
I felt a big sense of responsibility, But I also
I also had this sense of like, you know, I
don't want to get too vulgar, but fuck them. You know.
It's like I did everything by the book. I'm not poaching.
The amount of money that our money, all the money
that we spend on hunting, goes straight into the keeping
their trails going.

Speaker 2 (01:25:58):
They don't. How do they not realize this?

Speaker 5 (01:26:00):
Yeah, that you want to you want you want your lakes,
and you want your trails, and you want your bike paths,
and you want all this stuff taken care of.

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
Who do you think pays for that? Hunters pay for that.

Speaker 5 (01:26:09):
So as a conservationist and hunters are conservationist, you know,
if you do it by the book, that's what you're doing, right,
you're out. I'm not out just looking for any lion
to kill, right, I'm not out just looking for any
elk to kill, or any bear, any deer. I'm looking
for a big mature animal that is, and I'm going
to eat that animal. And it's everything is used, I
use everything.

Speaker 1 (01:26:30):
Yeah, And you're you're in your opera. In your case,
as we highlighted, you're operating within a very a very
finely tuned state and federal sanctioned yeah activity.

Speaker 2 (01:26:44):
Yeah. The North American model is the gold standard.

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
Yeah. And it's and it's and it's like this is
how this elaborate team of biologists and land managers have
decided to maintain and utilize a resource. I point out,
like the wolf analogy is good, there's another one. People say,

(01:27:07):
you know, we're all in this boat together, and I'll
point out that now and then certain people will shoot
we're in the boat together, and they'll shoot holes in
the bottom of the boat, meaning people you know, you know,
I'm talking about people who go and and not only
operate outside of any kind of legal framework, but operate
outside of any you know, they become unproductive, like they're

(01:27:30):
not helpful, right, people who are you know, violating like
like repeat violation of laws, willful violational laws give people
a black eye. But I think that like you're saying, man,
for someone to be operating in accordance with the law
when we generally all agree on how these things are established,

(01:27:54):
to then have that person be crucified, I think is
also an attack on this very effective wild management system.

Speaker 5 (01:28:01):
Oh yeah, and they'll put false statements out there. You know,
there's an organization. We won't say their name, but everybody
can probably imagine who they were. Starts with a p
they put out that I that I I I poached
They've said that I poached it or did it illegally,
or that these animals are are like mountain lions are
hit the only big cat thriving in North America. Like

(01:28:25):
they are thriving. Go to California. The deer population is
like decimated.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
Yeah, they're expanding, They're expanding numbers. They're colonizing new territory
and expanding numbers.

Speaker 5 (01:28:34):
Because that's what they do, you know. And then they're like, well,
why can't you just uh, you know, move it to
another area? Well, where are we going to move it to?
Because there's already lying in that area.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
You know what if you'd done that, you know what
you've been doing, You've been breaking.

Speaker 2 (01:28:47):
Law, breaking law exactly. You know, you can't you just.

Speaker 1 (01:28:51):
There lying in the bag of your truck. I decided
to take it upon myself and move it to a
new area.

Speaker 5 (01:28:56):
I darted it, Yeah, darted like Ricky, Bobby.

Speaker 7 (01:29:01):
Were you surprised by any of your allies in the
football community or otherwise when this went down?

Speaker 1 (01:29:07):
I was surprised by the lack of the allies.

Speaker 2 (01:29:10):
Oh really, yeah? But uh, you know, I dealt with
this in multiple things, right, So I refuse to get vaccinated.

Speaker 1 (01:29:15):
And I uh a lot of trouble for that.

Speaker 5 (01:29:19):
I got fined a lot of money. But yeah, but
I just the science. Well, they kept saying, believe in
the science. I'm like, well, the science isn't there, so
I'm not gonna believe anything that you tell me. I
also wouldn't kneel during the anthem, so I lost a
lot of friends over that.

Speaker 1 (01:29:34):
But I'm well, you lost friends for not kneeling.

Speaker 5 (01:29:38):
Yeah, they I was so the there was a the
wash I think it was a Washington Post front page
put Derek Wolf tells they asked me, why aren't you
gonna kneel? And I was like, well, because you know,
I have a lot of friends and family and people
that have served. And I remember, I remember, if even
one person says that it offends them or like kind
of makes them feel weird about it and they don't

(01:29:58):
like it, I'm not gonna to do it. If even
one veteran says that, I'm still I'm not gonna kneel.

Speaker 1 (01:30:05):
And when I didn't know there was a pressure, I
didn't know there was a I knew there was a
normous there's.

Speaker 2 (01:30:09):
Big press pressure. The pressure, yeah, big time pressure being
very pressure. They pressured us heavy to just kind of
jump on board and do it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:17):
You didn't get fine for that.

Speaker 5 (01:30:19):
No, I didn't get fine for that, but I did
get labeled as a racist. So the Washington Post put
on Derek Wolf tell us his black teammates to go
back to Africa. When all I said was if you
don't love, if you don't love this country. I had
just traveled to Thailand, so I saw what these people
lived like on the Bangkok River. I saw what you know,
these little mountain towns in chang Mai, how they lived

(01:30:39):
and they're happy as could be. But I realized how
privileged we are to live in America, Like even the
poorest of the poor living better than how they're living
over there, and.

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
They're still happy.

Speaker 5 (01:30:49):
But to me, I said, if you don't love, if
you don't love this country, we live in the best
country in the world. If you don't love this country,
then why do you live here?

Speaker 2 (01:30:55):
Yeah, that's all I said. It's just a simple question,
like why.

Speaker 5 (01:30:58):
Do you stay like you're well, you're free to go
and come and go as you please, you know. So
that was they interpreted that as and they put it
in quotes too, so I had to yeah. And when
I finally got them to take it down, the damage
was already done. So now I got teammates of mine
who had won a Super Bowl with looking at me
like dude, I thought like, are you like, is he

(01:31:18):
a racist? They're like my family's calling me, asked me
if you're a racist, if you're this, if you're.

Speaker 2 (01:31:21):
I'm like, dude, what are you kidding?

Speaker 1 (01:31:23):
Me? Like really?

Speaker 5 (01:31:25):
So, yeah, I had dealt with stuff like that before.
So and then when this, when the lion thing came out,
I noticed it even more. You know that people were
like distancing themselves from me, and I was like whatever, man, Like,
I'm gonna be who I am.

Speaker 2 (01:31:37):
I'm a stick to my belief.

Speaker 5 (01:31:38):
It's not going to change for for anybody, especially when
I'm not hurting anybody just because somebody's offended, you know,
by the lifestyle that I live, because I love this
lifestyle and it's it brings me. You know, killing an animal,
it's not the point. It's the journey. Like my favorite
part of that hunt and and that story is the
journey to get there. And you notice when I tell

(01:32:00):
the story, it's a small, very small part of actually
when I shot the animal. Most of the story is
the grind to get there. It's the same with every animal,
so they take they all, but all they want to
see is that because because that's what happens is you
post a picture, right, it's like, look, you know, check
it out, you know. But the only reason I'm doing
I'm not going to post a picture or something. I
just walked up and was able to kill easy. I

(01:32:22):
want to tell the story about how difficult it was
and how much of a grind it was to get
to that point. So so to me, if you if
if you don't want to be friends with me because
of that, then I don't really want to be friends
with you anyways.

Speaker 2 (01:32:33):
So that's fine, you.

Speaker 5 (01:32:34):
Know, but even you know, people will still come up
and be like, did you really have to kill that lion?

Speaker 2 (01:32:39):
It's like who cares? Who?

Speaker 5 (01:32:41):
What do you care? Why do you care? I did
everything by the book. It wasn't like some somebody's pet.

Speaker 1 (01:32:49):
Like are you is that an actual question?

Speaker 2 (01:32:51):
Yeah? Like I really like why do you care?

Speaker 1 (01:32:54):
You know?

Speaker 5 (01:32:55):
But you try to educate it, educate them on it,
you know. I did an interview on Tuck Carlson where
I just started hitting with numbers because I knew I
was gonna have a short segment, so I was like,
I'm gonna take the opportunity to hit them with some
conservation numbers about how many attacks on people happens once
one a year every two years, somebody gets killed by
a lion, and then what they do to the cubs

(01:33:16):
and what that does to the population of the lions.
So it's actually good for the population of lions to
take out these big mature toms.

Speaker 1 (01:33:21):
If your goal is to have more lions.

Speaker 5 (01:33:23):
Right, if we were out there just wanting to kill lions,
we've got there and just start shooting every line you.

Speaker 2 (01:33:28):
Saw, But you still you do you would like to
have a.

Speaker 5 (01:33:31):
Healthy lion population because it's still cool to have those
things around. But when it comes to like the wolves,
that's what this actually segued me into this the whole
wolf or you know, trying to keep the wolves out
of different areas. Colorado's already kind of screwed on that one.
But the least we can do is make it available
to hunt them, which is still you're never gonna dent

(01:33:51):
that population because it's important. I mean, look at the coyotes,
you know, coyotes destroying.

Speaker 1 (01:33:57):
You can definitely it's a good man. I think it's
a good management tool to have like a sort of
controlled growth of you know, I mean we've been doing
it here, like we've been doing it well here Idaho, Wyoming.
I mean we've been hunting out we've been hunting wolves
now for years and still seeing expansions of population, healthy numbers.

(01:34:17):
It's not like it's the way it's positioned as an
either or as ridiculous. It's like either either can have
wolves or you can have wolf hunting, which will result
in no wolves. And that argument has been thoroughly I
mean no one would know it, no one from Peter
would realize it now, but that argument has been thoroughly
put the rest that you can you can very successfully,

(01:34:41):
you can very successfully have healthy, stable wolf populations alongside
state managed wolf hunting. Yeah, and it's been There is
zero cases with mountain lion hunting. There is zero cases
where modern like regulated hunting of mountain lions, talking about
back in eighteen ninety when they were poisoning them with

(01:35:02):
strict nine. Yeah, regulated hunting the mountain lions having any
appreciable impact on mountain lion numbers. It's like it's just
not a thing.

Speaker 2 (01:35:10):
Yeah, it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:35:11):
You're gonna have roughly the same amount of lions, You're
gonna have the same amount of lines, whether you know,
if you're hunting them or not hunting, especially when you
factor in that the line like you got would have statistically, however,
it would have wound up being killed by a state agent.

Speaker 2 (01:35:25):
Yeah, because it was in California. It's too comfortable around people.

Speaker 1 (01:35:28):
California. As soon as they got rid of lion hunting.
The number of lions they kill that state biologists kill
goes through the roof. And now they're killing the same
number of lions annually.

Speaker 5 (01:35:40):
Is they always work when they could be that they're
missing out on opportunity for people to hunt them.

Speaker 1 (01:35:44):
People used to pay to go do it. Yeah, now
you pay, you gotta go do it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:35:47):
Do you think the lion you think when the lion
gets killed, he's like, well, thank god it was a
government agent exactly. It's like, of course not.

Speaker 2 (01:35:56):
It's silly. Honestly, it's silly, and it's you know what
I think it is.

Speaker 1 (01:35:59):
I was just hoping.

Speaker 5 (01:36:00):
I was just hoping it wasn't some local. Yeah, I
hope it wasn't some guy out here. Bet or not
have been just some guy, some hunter.

Speaker 1 (01:36:06):
I'm glad he's got glad, he's got lights on it.

Speaker 5 (01:36:08):
I think this is all to do with it. It's
because they're not thinking. They don't want to hear the
science or the rationality behind it. They're just thinking emotionally,
which I understand that they're emotional about it and they
love cats or whatever, like, but you know, at the
end of the day, man like, you have to manage
if you're gonna live in within the nature. Like if
you're gonna build houses up in the mountains and you're
gonna live in the mountains, you have to manage that

(01:36:30):
that population.

Speaker 1 (01:36:31):
It's Here's the other thing that frustrates me about this
conversation is that at this point they're managed as a
big game animal. The regulations are more strict. Yeah, h
if you like, if anyone ever, if anyone who's like
uneasy about mountain lion hunting from not in terms of
that they feel bad for the mountain lion. If anyone's
uneasy about mountain lion hunting in terms of that, it's

(01:36:51):
like exercise in a reckless fashion. I would invite you
to go and try. If you're not from a hunting background,
I would invite you to go and try to understand
mountain lion regulations. Yeah, in terms of how thinly sliced
the map is and all the quota systems around males females,

(01:37:12):
tiered season structures.

Speaker 2 (01:37:14):
You have to take a test, dude, before you get
your license.

Speaker 1 (01:37:17):
It's like, you know, you get most places you get
yourself deer license. It's like the most you gotta figure
out is that you know, you get like whatever amount
of time, and it's either got antlers or don't you know?
You get into these twenty four hour forty eight hour
reporting hotlines so that you have like a portion of
a mountain range carved off and you're gonna allow one

(01:37:39):
female and if that female gets killed, you have X
hours to register it. The whole season shuts down within
forty eight hours. There's like nothing like that now, I
mean some big horn sheep stuff. There's really that level
of detailed management. I shouldn't say nothing because there's a
handful of fur bears that fall in that, but anyways,

(01:38:01):
that's like that's a level of focus and precision that
is not exercised elsewhere, now, not broadly exercised.

Speaker 8 (01:38:08):
Del I could explain Montana's hunting eggs to just about anybody,
with the exception of mountain lions, I wouldn't know where
to begin to start.

Speaker 6 (01:38:16):
Ye, Like, it's just inordinately complicated.

Speaker 1 (01:38:19):
Yeah, and it's they it's it's managed as like a
long term renewable resource. Yeah, and very focused and like
that has not like I won't be clear that has
not always been the case, but that's the case now, right.
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:38:36):
Well, it's funny because you always, you know, you talk about,
you know, what they used to do back in the day.
When you see those old timey pictures of guys, you know,
I'd hunt camp and it's like five guys and they
got like ten deer hanging in the background. Sure, you know,
a bunch of ten deer, a bear, a lion, they
got all these different animals. Because there was the rules
weren't there. They could just go out and do whatever
they wanted.

Speaker 1 (01:38:55):
I'm going to post a picture from a guy gave
me a picture from nineteen fifty four or of a
bunch of dudes in Utah. I don't know what the
rags there was rags in nineteen fifty four, but with
a flatbed loaded with mule deer like you would not
like bucks, like you would not just giant. You can't

(01:39:17):
even tell how many you're in there. But it's just
like some of the bucks in that truck are like
what yeah, you know what I mean, daffy, Like there's
like spreads in there. There's like a buccaneer that's got
to have i don't know, thirty six inches, but they're
just piled in there.

Speaker 2 (01:39:32):
Yeah, piled. It's insane.

Speaker 5 (01:39:34):
It blows my mind. You know, even these like old
time duck hunters and stuff too. You see these piles
of like no limits.

Speaker 3 (01:39:39):
You know, I've got an old photo from my grandpa
that I need to get in like maybe the podcast room.
Well it's pretty full for my office, but it's big
blown up photo of like what you guys are talking about,
a bunch of deer. There's a couple of frozen foxes, yeah,
hanging out the back. It's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
It's pretty wild.

Speaker 1 (01:39:58):
La La Huffman was it this great photographer that he, uh,
photography is just becoming a thing that you could, you know,
move around with a camera. And this dude named La
Huffman made it out to Miles City, Montana and the
winner at eighteen eighty one, so he got to do
photos of the So the last big buffalo slaughter was
the winner at eighty one eighty two. It was when

(01:40:19):
the railroad hit Miles City and kind of tapped into
the core of the northern herd, and they killed a
couple of million that winter. No, that was the last
big shoot, and he got to go. He took photos
of some of these hide hunters, and there's this one
photo he has. They used to make these dugouts. They
just dig into a cutbank, and the amount of like

(01:40:41):
stuff that they got piled up around there, right down
to frozen buffalo fetuses as decorations. And then some of
those pictures he took too, of like the mule deer
heads and even now the white tail heads where it'd
be like just one dude standing air with like a

(01:41:01):
dugout canoe and fifty bucks. I mean, you look at it.
You gotta be like that'd have been a pretty good
time check that out. But on the other hair, like,
oh my god, man, well they probably were, Yeah, these
guys are shooting for the mining they're shooting for the
mining camps. Yeah, shooting meat for the mining camps. And

(01:41:21):
and like even just what what was their awareness about
were they were they you know, Colonel Dodge of Dodge City.
Colonel Dodge talked about what he thought was just this
extraordinary mealder that was lost in a fire, and you'd
be like, I would love to see what that guy thought,
what that guy in eighteen seventy thought was just an

(01:41:41):
extraordinary mealder.

Speaker 2 (01:41:43):
It's probably just ridiculous. You'd love to know, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:41:46):
These pictures, these pictures, these guys like nah, you're like, dude,
like said two hundred inch buck. Yeah, those bucks ain't around, yeah,
you know, and you got like six of them. It
would have been great. It'd have been great to see
some of that.

Speaker 9 (01:41:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:41:58):
You know, it's funny you talk. I heard you say
something I forget.

Speaker 5 (01:42:01):
I forget what episode you were talking about it, but
talking about like a time machine, like where would you
want to go?

Speaker 4 (01:42:05):
Mm hm.

Speaker 2 (01:42:05):
And I think you talked about Daniel Boone coming through
the Cumberland Gap.

Speaker 5 (01:42:09):
Yeah, and uh that Like when you said that, that
just stuck with me because I was like, man, I
always thought that way too, Like I'd be walking, you know,
walking in Appalachia and coming through these mountains and you know,
what was it like out here before all these people
came in here, Like, what was the wildlife like? Because
I know how the I mean, there's deer everywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:42:26):
Well, you'll have to listen to I was gonna say this,
you know, a project just for you.

Speaker 6 (01:42:32):
Stay tuned, stay tuned perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:42:34):
Because we're gonna we're gonna tackle that question.

Speaker 2 (01:42:37):
I just think that would be incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:42:38):
No, we're gonna We're gonna get into a lot of
that kind of stuff. What what were those guys? How
did they hunt? What were they doing? What were they seeing?
What was it like? Why was that area soul full
of game?

Speaker 2 (01:42:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:42:51):
Probably not what you'd expect. Yeah, you like, you know,
it's it's a it's a crazy story. Uh, you can
stick around for trivia, Yeah, building and play trivia. Did
you play tribune to before I did? Did you lose?
I did not win? Did she beat the Shelby Index?
We'll talk about it on the show. How about that?

Speaker 9 (01:43:09):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:43:09):
Hey, I got a thing for you. What's up a stat?
A guy proposed a stat? Can I tell you that now?

Speaker 2 (01:43:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:43:16):
He thinks that you ought to do when I was
doing the Oh you know it keeps. Here's the thing
funny is I already told Krin this story. I got
two things for you. Someone came up to me and
said they couldn't figure out why Krinn did so bad
at trivia. And I told Krinn that they said that
they looked her up and she looks very smart.

Speaker 7 (01:43:37):
Okay, uh huh, Just they.

Speaker 1 (01:43:44):
Couldn't make any sense out of it. Yeah, can't you
make any sense? I don't know what they're expecting. They're
expecting to see someone that just looked like a poor
performer at trivia. Here's the stat and it's a good one.
Strong strong, strong closers and strong beginners like you know
how people say you know that the right they start strong,

(01:44:06):
they come back and finish strong. Is there anything to that? Well,
we've seen with the overtime questions that Brody is by
far our weakest performer. On the contrary, I think you're
our strongest performer and overtime, Steve, does that make you
feel good? Feel great? Yeah?

Speaker 7 (01:44:21):
So I don't know because the ten questions are kind
of random about how they're organized, But I think you
can pick up a lot of a lot of intel
about how folks handle overtime.

Speaker 9 (01:44:31):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:44:31):
One thing I wanted to add. We work with a guy,
Garrett Long. He's gonna hook you up with a bunch
of first light stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:44:37):
Okay, cool, sweet, So.

Speaker 1 (01:44:38):
He's gonna get you squared away on that, and then
you're gonna stick around for trivia. Bill's gonna play trivia.
You didn't win last time. Do you feel like you're
gonna win? No?

Speaker 2 (01:44:48):
Really, no, not a chance.

Speaker 1 (01:44:50):
Here's a quick question. You know how you throw a
bone to guests? Is there gonna be like a double
bone throw? We have one for each of them.

Speaker 2 (01:44:58):
What kind of categories are there?

Speaker 7 (01:45:00):
We will talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:45:04):
Play the drop phil.

Speaker 9 (01:45:10):
A Ride on a seal gray, shine like silver in
the sun. Ride, Ride on along, sweet hot.

Speaker 1 (01:45:37):
We done beat this damp horse to death.

Speaker 3 (01:45:42):
Taking a new one.

Speaker 1 (01:45:44):
Ride We're done beat this damn horse today, So take
a new one and ride on

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Host

Steven Rinella

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