Ep. 704: MeatEater Radio Live! Happy Dogs, Hound Dogs, and Hot Dogs

Hosts Randall Williams, Tony Peterson, and Lake Pickle dig deep into dogs with trainer Jordan Horak of Cato Outdoors, play a thrilling round of MeatEater Price is Right with help from their friends as Scheels, discuss 1974's canine classic, Where the Red Fern Grows, talk ticks with Dr. Mani Lejuene of Cornell University, and throwback to some cherished dog memories.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Smell us now, lady, Welcome to Meet Eater Trivia Metater Podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to Meet Eater Radio Live. It's eleven am Mountain Time.
That's eight pm for our friends in Luco, Finland on
Thursday May fifteenth, and we are live from Meat Eater
HQ and Bozeman, Montana. I'm your host, Randa Williams, and
I'm joined today by Tony Peterson and Lake Pickle. On
today's show, we're talking dogs, the beloved species aka Man's

(00:48):
best friend, as well as the food variety. Of course,
I'm referring to hot dogs. Geez, geez. This is a
good script. First, we'll interview dog trainer extraordinary Jordan Horak,
and then we'll play a little game. We recoined the
price is right? We recoined that.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
I No, I don't think we recoined anything, followed by
a highly requested return of the Meat Eater Movie Club,
where we'll be discussing the children's classic Where the Red
Fern Grows.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
And after that we'll talk with Professor Monti Lejerne about
ticks and tick prevention in our dogs. And finally, we
will do a throwback Thursday with some memories with some
of our four legged best friends. First, Tony Lake, great
to have you, fellows in the studio. What brings you

(01:42):
to town this week?

Speaker 4 (01:44):
But me go first, first ahead, All right, Well, dog
week and I've been I have the Foundation's podcast on
Cal's feed, which is all about dogs. We've been writing
dog articles and dropping them on the site. Have a
new rooster film if you like watching public land roosters
get crunched by an adorable black lab.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Beautiful and me.

Speaker 4 (02:05):
You can check that out at the Meat Eater's site.
But yeah, we are just celebrating dogs. We finally did
an end around. I actually did the end around on
Steve Ranella, who's a cat guy, big cat guy, and
went right to the street. Well, because it's true, Yes,
this is not a rumor I started. This is just
known around the office. But I did an end round,
end around on Steve. Went to our CEO and I said, hey, man,

(02:28):
everybody here loves dogs, but Steve, can we finally do
something for the company instead of just catering to him?
And he said fine, And so now we have Dog Weekend.
We are going to be cranking out dog content from
here on out. It's a new category at Meat Eater.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well done, well done. And you know who else loves dogs?
The people?

Speaker 4 (02:46):
The people almost everyone. Yes, that's right, hot dogs and
the free kind of indeed.

Speaker 5 (02:52):
Both of them.

Speaker 4 (02:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
So my reason for being up here is twofold. The
first one is I'm working on a new podcast that'll
go on the Bear Grease Feed and I'm super excited
about going to be called Backwoods University. And also when
we schedule the time we come up here, I knew
that May it was still turkey season in Montana.

Speaker 5 (03:11):
I don't know how you feel.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
About turkey hunt, Randall, but I love it a whole lot.
So i'd hit up Max Bartos, I've been buddies with
for a while. I was like, hey man, since I'm
going to be up there, and so we snuck out
Monday and managed to get a turkey. So it's been
a great week.

Speaker 5 (03:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
I uh. I asked Max Barta to take me turkey hunting,
and now he's taken two out of town visitors turkey
hunting successfully in the past seven days, and I'm left wondering, what,
uh what Max really thinks of me? If there's anything there.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Max, if you're watching the show, ahead and call in old,
go ahead, and yeah, he talks you live.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
Here, Randall. I would just like to say that Max
invited me to Turkey Hunt this week as well.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Are you serious he did?

Speaker 4 (03:51):
One hundred percent here.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
I will say he did. He did invite me to
Turkey Hunt Monday afternoon, I believe after you killed your bird.
He said, do you still want to go Turkey Hunt?
How about tomorrow? And I said sure, and he said
the weather looks bad, We'll have to make a call
on it. And then two hours later he texted me
and said the weather it's too bad. We shouldn't go.
So Max did make an effort, right, although at that

(04:13):
point the forecast it was I don't know how wholehearted
it was.

Speaker 4 (04:19):
Right.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
I got to go in his defense, seeing as like
he was a huge part in me getting said turkey.
When we were driving back and the weather was still pretty,
he was like, wonder if Randall will want to go tomorrow.

Speaker 5 (04:29):
I's like, ask him, because I.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
We'll breaking news. If you want to direct your attention
to the screen.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
I know, yeah, I would like to. Max kind of
gets a bad rap for.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
The audio listeners. Max. Max chimed in in the life chat.
He says, hey, Randall, I was going to take you Tuesday,
but it rained.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, yeah, all cat, and I'm just I'm just having
fun with you, Max, he did. I have every confidence
that he will take me turkey hunting and we will
get a bird fifteen days left of the season, not
that anyone's counting. So yeah, well, it's wonderful to have
you guy here. Both your first times on Radio Live.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
I actually was a guest on Radio Live once.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Hmmm call it. That doesn't count. So until you sit
in this chair, you don't know what it feels like. Well, gentlemen,
I think it's time we move on to our first
interview of the day. Joining us is professional dog trainer
and the owner of Cato Outdoors, mister Jordan Horak. Jordan,

(05:26):
thanks for joining.

Speaker 6 (05:27):
Us, and guys, I thought this was turning into a
turkey episode here for a second.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Not on my watch. Not on my watch.

Speaker 7 (05:35):
It sounded like it for like three minutes.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah yeah, everybody's talked about turkeys, but we're here for dogs.

Speaker 7 (05:42):
Yeah, good, good.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Uh. First off, what is the most important thing you
can do with a puppy during the first week after
you bring it home?

Speaker 8 (05:52):
Yeah all right, So so here's here's the deal, like
dogs are weird because everybody wants to turn them into
like a computer or something that's really absolute and say like, okay,
there's one right way to train a dog or to
treat that dog in the first week.

Speaker 7 (06:06):
And in my.

Speaker 6 (06:08):
Experience, like ever, it just like kids, Like every dog
is very different, so everyone's gonna need a little bit
of a different approach maybe, and there's gonna be people
that have different ideas, and that's all great because this
is really a subjective thing training dogs. But in my opinion,
when I bring a dog home, my natural urge is
to start training it right away, Like I want it
to be a great dog, so I want to teach

(06:30):
it to sit and throw a bunch of retries and
like start training in all these things. And in my experience,
that's like the worst thing you can do, because that
dog is going through like a really big fear stage
when you bring it to your house, like it's you're
a new person and you know they can't speak English,
so nobody explained to that dog like, hey, you're going
to this new person's house and they really love you,

(06:51):
and like they don't know any of those things, so
you have to show them. I think in that first
week that like, hey, I'm somebody you want to hang
out with, Like we're gonna have good times. But requirements
are really really low right now. So I'm gonna do
a lot of giving that puppy treats out of my hand.

Speaker 7 (07:07):
I'm going to get down on the floor.

Speaker 6 (07:09):
With it, play with it, maybe get to get it
to play a little bit of tug with me. But
I'm really just looking at building that relationshipship for the
first week and really like the first few months, that's
going to be the main focus. There's gonna be a
few things, of course, we're gonna have to teach it
right away. Like one of those would be don't pee
on the floor, go in the crate, be quiet in

(07:31):
the crate, don't bite me like you can't you know,
you can't chew in my hands like puppies like to do.
So of course we're going to work on those things.
But my primary thing for the first even few weeks
is hey, let's let's just get to be buddies and
like get ready for the long road, because this is
this is a marathon.

Speaker 7 (07:47):
We got plenty of time to teach skills later on.

Speaker 4 (07:51):
So Jordan, I know let's let's move past the first
week here right now and just kind of building that
trust and making that that puppy comfortable. I know you're
a big confidence guy, right You like to challenge dogs
and help them build confidence. So when you talk about,
you know, dogs being individuals, which they are, you kind
of got to cater a lot of your training style

(08:11):
to that individual dog, the personality drive, all that stuff.
But there is sort of a ubiquitous, uh, cross the
board need for confidence in dogs. And I know that
you take puppies, you know, from eight weeks on, and
that's that's like top of mind for you. Can you
kind of give us like a thirty thousand foot view
on how you look at puppies and go, I want
to I want to start creating a confident dog.

Speaker 6 (08:33):
Yeah. So a lot of people think that building a
confident dog means like throwing it into all these weird situations.
So they bring this new puppy home and they take
it to the pet store, and they take it to
their friends, and they take it to the.

Speaker 7 (08:44):
Dog park and all these places.

Speaker 6 (08:46):
And I don't think that that makes a confident puppy
because that's just a lot of confusion and a lot
of uncontrolled environment, bad things can happen. So I look
at building confidence actually like creating a predictable environment with
a predictable outcome. So I'm not traveling them or taking
them all over the place. I'm just trying to throw
things at them at home. So one thing I did

(09:09):
with a recent litter, and if your listeners want to
go check it out. I think it's pretty cool and
it's like the only thing I've ever done that's gone
viral on social media, so go watch it. But I
created an obstacle course for a recent litter of spring
puppies that I did, and we started out just like
with one obstacle within this course, they just had to
go around one wall and we put the puppy, we

(09:33):
put the food down at the end, and then we
put the puppies down behind this wall and all they
had to do is go around it. And they were
like they were panicking, they were crying, They're trying to
climb out the edge, like they had no idea what
to do, and like their confidence was kind of shattered.
A lot of people the tendency would be like, oh,
look at the poor things, like they need help, and
you know, they would go and intervene and really like

(09:55):
the intervention is not going to help them build confidence.
So we I say we it was my kids and
I were like doing the science experiment, basically behavior science.

Speaker 7 (10:04):
We just stood there and.

Speaker 6 (10:06):
Watched them, and pretty soon one of them like stuck
its head around the wall like, oh, look, I can
kind of go this way, and all of a sudden,
they all ran around the corner and they're eating food.
The next time we did that, we dropped them in there,
didn't say anything, put the food down, and all nine
of the puppies just ran around the corner. And then
we progressively started to add more and more complex obstacles

(10:27):
to that obstacle course, and it was really cool to
see the puppies like their mindset changed from when they
first went in there, where it was like I don't
know what to do, I just give up. By the end,
they were like, I know what to do. Doesn't matter
what you put in front of me, I'm going to
go through it. And I think like the obstacle course

(10:47):
was a really like vivid example of learning and overcoming
a challenge. I think for a hunting dog, there's a
lot of other things that come up in life, like
for instance, a long retrieve or going into really heavy
cover or getting into a boat, or even like hopping in.

Speaker 7 (11:04):
A dog trailer.

Speaker 6 (11:05):
Like there's lots of challenges or obstacles that they're going
to encounter. I think starting really really small with something
that they can have an easy outcome with, Like for
us it was just go around one wall. I think
that's really important rather than just throwing them into hard
things right at the start, because really, like for people
and for animals, we gain confidence through success. We don't

(11:29):
gain confidence through failure. So if we put them into
something where they're going to fail and be overwhelmed, like
that only like suppresses confidence. So so I like to
think of it as like give them the challenge that's
that's easily surmountable. Make sure that there's a reward at
the end, right, Like you can't just like throw them
in the obstacle course and like hey like figure this

(11:50):
out and when you get to the end, like we'll
do it again, or there's nothing there, Like they have
to have a motivation or a reason. With a puppy,
that motivation often is going to be a treat. As
they get older, that motivation might be the retrieve. So
I can give a dog a really really hard retrieve
and they've got to go out there and problem solve,
and they've got to show courage and like go through

(12:11):
this creek and over this burm and through these you know,
chesti cattails and whatever. But they know that at the
end there's that reward of like finding the bird or
finding the bumper, but that all it doesn't start there,
like that's that's the end product. So starting a really
really small controlled environment, something that I know they're going

(12:31):
to be successful in with a very clear reward.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
At the end.

Speaker 4 (12:34):
Yeah, and you view this as, you know, the confidence
thing is huge, but you also look at this as
like you're conditioning those dogs to be problem solvers, which
we think about training and we look at it and go,
I want my dog to do this kind of retrieve
perfectly every time because that's the behavior I want. But
then you take that hunting dog out into the field
and you're like, you have to solve a series of
problems in every environment. You know, we knock this rooster

(12:56):
down here, that green head there, So you're actually teaching
those puppies to problem solve. At eight nine, ten weeks old.

Speaker 6 (13:05):
Yeah, and I think maybe, like problem solving and confidence
are two different things, but I think they're inseparable here
as well. Like if you have a really confident dog,
it's gonna go out and like figure out a way
to do it right, it's going to solve the problem.

Speaker 7 (13:19):
If you have a dog.

Speaker 6 (13:20):
That's insecure and like doesn't want to do anything, like, yeah,
it's gonna fail. But yes, Tony, I think even like
training could be like training, a new thing could be
a problem that they have to solve, right, like like sitting.
We think of sitting as being really simple, but really

(13:40):
like if I'm holding a treat and wanting that dog
to do a behavior, like, technically they have a problem
they have to solve. They want to treat, they don't
know what that behavior is. So yeah, with an eight
or nine week old puppy, like they can start learning
to solve the problem of like, hey, why are you
just standing there looking at me with that treat?

Speaker 5 (13:58):
What do I have to do?

Speaker 6 (14:00):
Goes down to get the treat? Oh, I I think
I might, you know, have a solution to this problem.
So as they learned to start offering behaviors and trying
new things to solve problems like correct those things get
more and more complex as they get older, or the
requirements that they ask.

Speaker 4 (14:17):
For sure, But can we switch gears here quick? So
you are those puppies you were talking about that litter
that you built a little obstacle course for. Those are springers.
You are known for being an English cocker guy.

Speaker 7 (14:28):
Why, Yeah, I don't. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
I don't.

Speaker 7 (14:32):
So I've actually owned like eight or nine springers.

Speaker 6 (14:35):
I posted these these videos of these springers, and everybody said,
why did you get a springer?

Speaker 7 (14:40):
Like, I've had quite a few.

Speaker 6 (14:41):
Of them, But cockers, I've I won the Open Nationals
in twenty eighteen, I won the Amateur Nationals and then
I won the Open Nationals. So and then I won
the Open with a dog named Cato, and then I
started Cato Outdoors off right after that.

Speaker 7 (14:56):
So everybody think, for sure, I've owned.

Speaker 6 (14:59):
More cockers, and I've had success and trials with cockers,
so that that's why I guess I get associated with them,
and I do love that breed in I have way
more cockers than I have spears at this point.

Speaker 4 (15:09):
Yeah, but there had to be a reason why you
went to them first, and then you just kind of
you kind of glossed over this, but you went and
won huge championships with them. What was it? What's it?
What is it about?

Speaker 7 (15:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (15:19):
So I got done with school and I was living
in a little apartment with my wife, and I wanted
another hunting dog because the one.

Speaker 7 (15:26):
My childhood dog, had died.

Speaker 6 (15:28):
And I'm a really impulsive person if nothing else. So
I read a magazine article and somebody mentioned a Cocker
spaniel and that they were little and that you could
peasant hunt with them, and oh, I'm so I like,
I think Google had like just come out. So I
did a quick search and found a guy two hours away,
and I drove up and got a puppy from him,
and I was like, I got a cocker like for

(15:49):
the small hunting dog, and I stayed with Cockers because
of the small hunting dog that also has a big personality,
like their Spaniels are like really really hypically people oriented,
like almost to a fault, like you can't go in
the bathroom without the dog like sitting outside the door, like, Hey,
when are you going to come back out to play
with me? So they're they're really really sociable, like they

(16:12):
want to like make this connection with you, Like you'll
see their face like the ears kind of drop and
they're just like trying to like, Hey, how do I
crawl inside your brain and understand you? And I really
like that about them. They're smart, really smart dog and
the small size is like it's conducive to living in
town or to traveling, and they can still do the

(16:32):
things that a big dog can do.

Speaker 4 (16:33):
Well.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
I'm a lab guy myself, but I'm sorry the size thing.
The size thing occasionally does seem appealing. Thanks so much
for joining us today. Great to meet you. And when
I get a new puppy here maybe in the next year,
maybe I'll give you a call, get some tips.

Speaker 7 (16:50):
Yeah, give me a caller stop by. Wonderful meet you
in person.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Thanks Jordan.

Speaker 7 (16:53):
Great, Thanks guys.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yep, he knows a lot about dogs.

Speaker 4 (17:01):
So I'll give you a quick antidote anecdote here. Have
you ever read All the Pretty Horses? Oh, Cormick McCarthy.
So the lead guy there, John Grady cole h he
leans down and talks to horses, so they he comments
on this or you know this is This is sort
of a central theme throughout that book, where it's like
you don't know what he's saying to the horse, but

(17:22):
he can break a horse better than anyone. And he's
got away with him and he leans down and he
says something to the conversation between him and the horse.
I met Jordan six years ago at an event and
he was he would do that with his dogs. So
they're performing in front of a whole bunch of people
and he leans down and he says something to him,
and so I'm like, I've read about that behavior before.

(17:44):
He's got away with him.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Man our vet, when when we first met our new
vet when we moved to Livingston, he opened the door
and got in and just got down on the floor
and started crawling around with the dogs. And then late
he sort of realized what he was doing and said,
oh hey, and introduced himself to us. But I thought, actually,
that's how I know you're real. Yeah, yeah, well, Phil.

(18:05):
Our next segment is The Price is Right, presented by
our friends at Shields. Here.

Speaker 9 (18:12):
It comes from Bozeman, Montana Media Radio's Most Exciting ten Minutes.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
It's The Prices Raight.

Speaker 9 (18:21):
Tommy Peterson, come on down, Lake Pickle, come on down.
You're the next two contestants on Media radios. The price
is right.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
Dog Week condition presented by Shields.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
This game is really simple. Now Phil's gonna tell you
about a product from the Meat Eater universe, and you're
gonna need to guess its price. The player with the
closest answer without going over, will be declared the winner.

Speaker 4 (18:47):
And if both.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Players go over, you'll both be told to try again.
And the chat should play along as well, because whoever
is the closest answer will get a shout out from
Phil the engineer. All right, there are three pros for
today's show. Phil tell us about the first item off
forbid Here.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
I got to play the product music Randall, it's very important. Oh, yep,
here it is. Let's start today's bidding with the Garmin
Sport Pro Dog Training Bundle. Is your dog selective hearing
worse than Ryan Callahan's. Has your pup come to confuse
the command here with quick running the opposite direction? Well,
those days will soon be a distant memory with the
help of the Garmin's Sport Pro Dog Training Bundle, rated

(19:27):
the number one dog training collar of twenty twenty five
by our friends at Shields. This puffy features ten levels
of static stimulation to match your dog's temperament, plus vibrate
tone and a beacon light so you can keep track
of your puff on those midnight potties that last a
suspiciously long time. Plus there's a built in bark limitter
so the neighbors don't call animal control when you've got
to work late editing podcast recording that should have been

(19:48):
sent to you forty eight hours before. If nothing works
and your dog still sucks after your best efforts, hang
this remote around your neck with the included lanyard at
the dog park and at least still look like a
guy who takes his K nine training. Serious E coolers
should only be used after properly educating yourself on safe
and effective training method Side effects me include unsettling realization
that your dog coul fully understand ever command all along.
It's ald a professional dog trainer before use. Effecting this

(20:09):
made increase cure dog exactly smarter than you are.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
Wow, Phil, Wow you are. That's a hell of a
side effects read. Oh Gil, I didn't realize the human
voice was capable of that. I thought it was always
done in uh after effects, but.

Speaker 5 (20:28):
Hones stuff They fast forward.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
Oh no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but no, Phil, you
just sound fast forward. So we've got the garments Sport
Pro Dog Training Bundle. What are your guesses, gentlemen? Here
it seems like a fine product again rated the number
one dog training collar of twenty twenty five fire friends
at Shields. And I will note these prices that we're
reading here are from Shields. You have your answers. When

(20:54):
we flip those boards over, Tony goes with one seventy
nine oh, and Lake goes with five hundred dot. Oh,
we've got a winner. The correct answer is two and
forty nine dollars in ninety nine cents. Tony, Well done,
well done. You got one of those.

Speaker 4 (21:15):
I do not.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
It's a competitive price, it is.

Speaker 4 (21:18):
It's a great price.

Speaker 10 (21:20):
Phil.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
What have we got for our second item up for
bid here today? And I apologize these these descriptions are
much too long. I now realize having listened to your
first one.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
I like them. It's fun to read them. How about
a pet safe automatic ball launcher? Is your throwing arm
begging for mercy while your dog's still begging for one
more toss? Does your furry friend have the aerobic endurance
of Janis putellus? But the only thing you want to
throw is throw back a few rum punches after say,
a long day of podcast recording with an eccentric opinion
m opinion in nuda opinionated individual who is hyper fixated

(21:53):
on a few specific activities that don't really align with
your interests. Wow, it says hitting home Randall. Problem solved.
This ball flinging miracle launches standard tennis balls up to
thirty feet, perfect for the dog who has more energy
than snort on peasant opener. With multiple distance settings, you
can adjust from a living room friendly to huck that
sucker into the next zip code, and built in motion
sensors prevent balls from launching when your unsuspecting family members

(22:16):
are in the line of fire. Your dog can even
learn to reload it themselves, though success rates very depending
on whether your pet is a graduate of dog Edu
or well not. Get ready to reclaim your sofa time
while your dog runs itself into a tennis ball induce
stupor nicely done film.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Ooh boy, that looks fancy. I wonder how much you
could possibly cost you guys, have your answers ready? Let
me flip them over here. Tony goes with forty nine
ninety nine and Lake goes with eighty nine ninety nine.
The correct answer is two hundred and nine dollars ninety

(22:56):
nine cents. Got a tie game here, Fellas. Boy, you
guys didn't have much confidence in the in the quality
of that tennis ball launcher.

Speaker 4 (23:05):
You don't see a lot of those in my world.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
I was just trying to rein it in after I
so like widely overshot the first good strategy.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
And I bet people in the live chatter saying, but Randall,
you're not asking about the commenters and if they're guessing correctly.
But here's the thing I have not had time to
even look at.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
I know, I know, I'm sorry, Phil, I really know.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
It's okay. It's honestly, it's making my job.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
The read is too taxing. I just the word counts too.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
Guys can feel good about yourselves.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
And the next one's a little shorter, though, I will
say I was. When I was preparing this yesterday, Sydney
walked in and I showed her the tennis ball thrower
and she said, oh, we should get that, And I said,
guess how much it is? She said two nine ninety
nine and I said, or no, I said it was
two nine and she said, we shouldn't get that right,
So had we been at priced at like eighty nine

(23:51):
ninety nine, I might be the owner of one. Anyway,
Onto our next item.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
On a three month supply of Next Guard Chewables for
Dogs weighing sixty to one hundred and twenty one pounds,
It's Next Guard Chewable Tablets for Dogs. Is your fairy
friend a hair covered hideaway for blood sucking freeloaders, You
need Next Guard red box. These beef flavored death traps.
Don't mess around, don't.

Speaker 9 (24:16):
Negotiate, annihilight, Send those nasty bugs straight to hell. Nextcard
Red Box will get the job done, no survivors.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
One tasty treat each month gives your sweet pooch thirty
days of protection from ticks and fleas, and the red
box three months supply means fewer trips to the vet.
Next Guard, because the only things you should be sucking
the life out of are your soul crushing job, your
suffocating mortgage, the bone chilling cold of winter, and the
extential dread that your entire assistance is just a cosmic
joke played by an indifferent universe, not your.

Speaker 9 (24:47):
Dog's disgusting parasites.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Knocked it out of the park, Phil, Thank you for that,
Thank you for that.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah, any time.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
So we've got a three month supply of next job,
next guard chewables for dogs and again this is uh,
this is for dogs weighing sixty to one hundred and
twenty one pounds. Tony, Are you the next guard man?

Speaker 4 (25:09):
Nope, and you'll probably figure that out pretty quickly.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Here, buddy, mmmmm, Blake, do you have dogs?

Speaker 11 (25:18):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (25:18):
Yeah, I got two of them. What kinds labs?

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Oh? Good, good, good good. Well, when we flip those
boards over, gang, Tony goes with thirty nine to ninety
five and Lake says one hundred dollars. Lake, your closest,
but you went over. The correct answer is ninety dollars
and eighty nine cents. So Tony's gonna get away with
a cheap victory. Here.

Speaker 4 (25:40):
I don't feel good about it.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, the low ball in price is right is really
a coward's move.

Speaker 4 (25:45):
I mean I feel better than losing.

Speaker 5 (25:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure none of us fill as good
as Phill does.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, I think Phil won that won that little segment.
Thanks for playing it was just.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
A really good Yeah, thank you for those.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Thanks for playing along. Everybody, and remember to help control
the pet population, have your spade and neutered. It's oddly
uh prescient for Bob Barker to do this knowing that
we would do this now on Radio Live during dog Week.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
He must have known.

Speaker 4 (26:10):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Let's take a break for some listener feedback. Phil, what
does the chat have to say?

Speaker 3 (26:17):
Yeah, I apologize because I haven't been looking at the
chat uh for a while. So please get your dog
related questions or not dog related into the live chat
now if you would like them answered by our crew.
First comment comes from Brent Reeves. He says, little known
fact Lake Pickle can sing just like George Strait.

Speaker 5 (26:37):
That's uh not true.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
Oh, I mean I think there's only one way to
find out you look so good in love?

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Hit me?

Speaker 5 (26:43):
He looks so good in love?

Speaker 3 (26:46):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (26:47):
If it was on key, I prefer Jamie Fox's version,
though it's probably better. It is good.

Speaker 3 (26:55):
Wokoum says, I have a question about dog's steadiness. My
two year old Chocolate loves the sound of guns and
is off the place so fast even when I just
raised the gun. How best to teach steadiness?

Speaker 4 (27:07):
That's a tony question, I think, Well, there's kind of
a lot to unpack there. But I would say you
kind of have to back up and go the gun
should This is sort of going to be a parallel
to gunfire introduction, right we started with clapping, We started
like distant clapping. Then you work in some twenty two's
and that kind of stuff. If your dog recognizes that
gun as an excuse to break, then you got to

(27:31):
back up and work steadiness in a way where it's
like make him sit to wait to feed, make him
sit on the retrieves, and get the basic foundational steadiness first,
because what this sounds like is maybe there were some
false positives with the steadiness earlier. So we moved on,
and now this dog associates that gun with the best
thing possible, and you have to go back and go,

(27:52):
do you have steadiness down at first before that gun
comes anywhere near it? So I would back way up
on that before I brought a gun out again.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
M Lake anything to add there.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, I mean one thing I would say, I'd say,
that's not the worst problem to have. I would rather
him be eager rather than the opposite of But yeah,
I mean, just echoing off of what Tony said, I mean,
all that's based off the foundation of discipline of a dog,
like just the foundations of obedience to everything. So I mean,
I don't have anything on top of what Tony said,
but taylor it back and just make sure that he's

(28:26):
steady to everything else and then advance back forward.

Speaker 4 (28:29):
Yeah, and this sounds I don't know. I mean, I'm
filling in the blanks here, but this sounds like waterfall
training to some extent. And if you think about if
you have a dog that's that keyed up when a
gun comes up to jump or to break, now you
have a real safety issue because you imagine those birds
coming in everybody's eyes to the sky, and that dog
feels the same way you bring that gun up might

(28:50):
flare your birds. But now you knocked down a cripple
in the water, you're like, oh, I'm I'm gonna shoot
it before we send the dog. That dog jumps out
and you're you know what I mean. It's just like
that's one of those things that's really tough because it's unnatural.
Steadiness is unnatural for dogs, but it's a safety issue
aside from just a manners and behavior issue.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
The other thing is like you never want to be
the guy on a waterfowl hunt that has the dog
that breaks you.

Speaker 5 (29:15):
Don't you want to get a hand?

Speaker 2 (29:16):
I don't bring my dogs anywhere right for that?

Speaker 4 (29:19):
Probably?

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, they're not trained at all. Phil, what else we got?

Speaker 4 (29:24):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (29:24):
One? Spencer Newheart asks Tony Lake, Randal and Phil, you
get to pick three hot dog topping for the rest
of your life. What are they?

Speaker 4 (29:34):
Ketchup mustard relish, ketchup mustard, onions, ketchup mustard, cheese, cheese.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
Cheese, mustard, sour kraut.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
Hmm is that a Mississippi thing?

Speaker 5 (29:44):
Cheese?

Speaker 2 (29:45):
Are we talking like real? Are we talking like Frankfurter's like?
Or are we talking just brats?

Speaker 3 (29:51):
How about? How about you get specific randals? Is what
the people are here for. It's dog week?

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, I don't know, just stick to hot dogs, ketchup
mustard relish.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
Great. On that note, Heritage Tradition asks, have you guys
ever had a Seattle dog which is cream cheese and grilled?

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (30:10):
Grilled? I well, I love a lot.

Speaker 5 (30:13):
I thought he was talking about a breed of dog, right,
Seattle dog.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
No, it's a great it's a great hot dog. It's
a great regional variation on a tried and shee classic.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
Hardway, Alaska asks, my four year old blue tick has
separation and just high anxiety, high anxiety in general. Is
there hope on breaking her from this or is she
just a house pet?

Speaker 4 (30:34):
So, separation anxiety is one of the biggest stressers in
most modern dogs life, Like, this is a real issue.
I would say, I don't know a lot about blueticks,
but I would say fundamentally, the dogs that get the
worst separation anxiety are not necessarily as confident dogs and
also haven't been not only exercise physically, but mentally. So

(30:58):
when you want to take the edge off a dog,
we kind of gloss over the mental part, like the
little problem solving games, like but you think about, uh,
you know, kindergarteners, right, like they learn, they have recess,
they learn, they play. Dogs are kind of the same way.
They need to run and get that physical exercise, but
they need that mental stimulation. And that's not going to

(31:20):
like totally cure separation anxiety because there's there could be
other stuff to unpacked there, but you can definitely sort
of mitigate some of the worst effects of it.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, I have house bets. So again, right, what else
we got Phil.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
Well, Pete has a very pressing question, and I'm sure
you guys have an answer for him. It's Morelsey's and
any tips on training my thirteen month old visla how
to find them for me?

Speaker 4 (31:44):
Is that a thing you could absolutely do that? I
bet you think so? Just positive association, man, I promise
you could probably train.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
Okay, because I assumed it was a joke and I
read it like a joke, But if you think that
it could be possible.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
No, there's there's a lot of like dogs that sniff mushrooms, right,
there are some, Yeah, but I shouldn't say a lot.
But that's a thing I think.

Speaker 4 (32:06):
I don't know this for sure, but I bet you
could probably order up dried morel powder, which would have
a lot of surface area for cent, and you could
train year round. You know, it's kind of like shed
antler training. You know, a shed antler itself doesn't have
a lot of scent, but ground bone powder has a
lot of scent, and so I bet you could do

(32:27):
this better than you would probably think. But you have
that really short window of morel season actually have that
dog go out and get that practical experience. So you'd
have to figure out a way to train it off season,
and that's how I would do it.

Speaker 5 (32:38):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
I've morel hunted with my dogs, but right none of
us found them.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
And then another one from Pete how to encourage a
water shy dog to get more interested in swimming? Any
general tips for that.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
Water shyness is way more common than people think. And
so in fact, the four year old lab that I have,
I had a hell of a time her into the
water and I didn't see that coming. Going on hot days,
get them really worked up, and then change your training
location to someplace with water. Clear water's the best if

(33:13):
you can get it nice, gentle slope, hard bottom so
there's no surprises. So that dog, you know, if it's
ninety five degrees out there and you've been training that
dog gets into that water, it's going to go into
the water to some level. But you don't want it
to hit a ledge and fall off, get surprised. You
don't want cold water, you don't want too much current.
And so for my dog, I tried all that and

(33:33):
she wouldn't go in past she wouldn't go in past
her chest, so her tail end would be floating and
I ended up having to bring out a pheasant wing,
take her to a new environment and use a pond
that right in the middle of it was just deep
enough where she'd have to swim. So I had the
highest reward she had ever encountered to that point in
her life to retrieve because she wanted that wing more
than anything. It was a new environment, so a mental reset.

(33:56):
And then as soon as she did it and retrieved
that wing, I know ever dealt with it again, and
it was like a three month process for me.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
I had a similar experience set the dog. I have
now no issues the dog I had before him. He
was scared of death of water, like, wouldn't touch it,
and I had to. But he loved feathers, so same thing.
I had to build it up there and he did.
First time I put it in the water. He would
stand just on the edge of the water and bark
and wine until finally he just broke and went in
there himself.

Speaker 5 (34:24):
And then problem solved.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah, my dogs just swim, don't have anything done.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Great, we'll call that for the segment now, but I
we'll do this one more time at the end of
the show. Yeah, please get those questions and I should
have more time to read them this time.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
Thanks Phil.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
Yeah, thanks Phil.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
It's a great listener feedback break. It was We're on
a meat eater movie club. I'm already self conscious about it.
How long this is a mistake? Wilson rawls. Where the

(35:05):
Red Fern Grows, adapted for screen in nineteen seventy four,
is a beloved coming of age story about a young
boy named Billy Coleman and his two coonhounds in the
Ozark Mountains of Oklahoma. It lives on as a beloved
family classic that continues to resonate with viewers for its
authentic portrayal of rural life, the earnest performances from its actors,
and the emotional impact on the younger audiences. The plot

(35:28):
of Where the Red Fern Grows is relatively simple. Boy
wants dogs, Boy gets dogs. Dogs die prematurely, but this
minimalist narrative structure functions as a devastatingly elegant meta commentary,
like sisyphus eternally pushing his boulder uphill, only to watch
it roll back down. Billy Coleman's tireless efforts to acquire
his hounds, his meticulous training regimen and his eventual hunting

(35:49):
triumphs constitute an elaborate exercise and cosmic futility. The mathematical
certainty with which the narrative arc concludes in the death
of his short lived companions mirrors the inescapable terminus of
all biological existence, suggesting that the universe operates not as
a moral economy where hard work yields proportional reward, but
rather as a cruel charade that temporarily entertains their aspirations

(36:10):
before mechanistically dismantling them. Now, please indulge me. I'm to
depart from a subject at hand, but this will make sense.
On September fifteenth, eighteen thirty three, the English poet Arthur
Henry Hallam suddenly dropped dead of a cerebral hemorrhage in
the city of Vienna, Austria, at the tragically young age
of twenty two. Over the following seventeen years, Hollam's former

(36:31):
classmate at Cambridge, Alfred Lord Tennyson, paid tribute to his
dear friend at a sprawling narrative poem titled in Memoriam
Aah that wrestles with the inevitability of tragedy and loss.
Perhaps most Notably, the poem introduced Pictorian audiences to the
metaphor of nature red and tooth and Claw, later adopted
by the acolytes of Charles Darwin for its clear eyed
characterization of world shaped by the cold calculus of death

(36:54):
and survivorship. Where the Red Fern Grows serves as a
cinematic literalization of Tennyson's medicaeive elegy. The correspondence between these
works transcends mere thematic similarities. Both emerged from profound personal grief.
Tennison's for holem and rawls from childhood memory of his
own dogs. Both employ animal violence as a stand in
for universal suffering, and both ultimately questioned divine benevolence in

(37:16):
a world of struggle and violence. Tennyson's vision of creation
as an indifferent slaughterhouse quote so careful of the type,
she seems, so careless of the single life, finds its
perfect juvenile counterpart in Billy Coleman's Ozark Woods. The profound difference,
of course, is that Tennyson was writing for a sophisticated
mid century readership capable of appreciating three thousand lines of

(37:37):
dense poetry. Where the Red Fern Grows is curiously tailor
made for ambushing elementary school students with philosophical provocations. Were
Billy Coleman's Dogs merely a cruel diversion from the fundamental
emptiness of human experience. Perhaps most insidious is the film's
calculated subversion of Billy's crowning achievement, the hunting tournament victory,

(37:58):
through his grandfather's bumbling in aptitude. This transforms Billy's moment
of triumph into a hollow victory contaminated by chance and
human error. The message crystallizes with brutal clarity. Even when
one executes everything perfectly, random circumstance or the incompetence of
others can instantly nullify one's achievements. The trophy Billy receives

(38:18):
thus becomes not a symbol of genuine accomplishment, but rather
a monument to the arbitrary nature of success and failure,
a child's introduction to absurdity wrapped in golden metal. Most
remarkable is the film's half hearted gesture towards meaningful consolation.
The red fern, itself supposedly planted by angels where extraordinary
devotion exists, offers no genuine comfort. It is merely a

(38:42):
botanical curiosity marking the patch of earth where Billy's beloved
companions decompose. This supernatural element serves only to emphasize that
even the divine cannot reverse the finality of death. Now,
this reviewer is not prone to whining about the emotional
underdevelopment of today's coddled youth, discussions of generational decline, and
our society's refusal to teach children hard lessons or ripe

(39:04):
fodder for old men with talk shows. But there is
something refreshing where the word sorry I rewrote this by hand.
There is something refreshing about the films bitter, Oh excuse me, sorry,
this is just awful. There is something refreshing about the

(39:25):
bitter existential truth serving as the film's core message. Attachments
are temporary. Bodies fail, and nothing, not love, not courage,
not even narrative filmmaking convention can prevent our individual and
collective descent into oblivion. It seems as though children are
meant to absorb this nihilistic parable as a heartwarming coming

(39:46):
of age romp. The film endures as an unforgettable initiation
ritual into the awareness of life's temporary nature, ensuring that
generations of young viewers understand that emotional investment invariably leads
to loss, and the cycle continues with a frigid indifference
to human sentiment until all of us join our beloved
pets in the warm filled soil. Okay, now, Dog Week.

(40:20):
I didn't know what to make of this film. I'll
be honest. I remember reading the book as a child,
and I watched the film yesterday and I was horrified
and shocked by it. Tony Lake, what are your thoughts here?

Speaker 1 (40:33):
So we were given that what we were told we
had to read that book when we were in second grade,
and we read it as a class and when it
came to the point where the dogs died, the entire class,
including the teachers, were like bawling in the classroom. Then
we watched the movie, and as a second grader, you
don't pick up on some of the things right. And
then she actually had a guy who was a coon

(40:55):
hunter come into our second grade classroom with his blue
take sounds.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
So you could fully appreciate what had just died. That
was overscreen.

Speaker 5 (41:02):
I think that's what they were getting at.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah, they want to, but so rewatching the movie, having
not seen the second grade, you just pick up on
some things.

Speaker 5 (41:10):
Uh, and I'll just just go straight into it.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
I couldn't the first the first thing of the movie
they touch on. They're like Billy's family, his parents have
this goal. They want to move to Tulsa and take
over their uncle's speed store. So you're like, okay, that's
the thing, you go to the whole thing. He gets
his dogs, he trains them. There great coon dogs. The dog,
Old Dan gets killed. That's terrible. Then little Ann dies

(41:33):
and Billy is on the ground holding his dead dog,
crying that has just passed away seconds ago, and his
mom and dad walk up and they're like, you know, Billy,
this kind of works out.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Now we can move to Tulsa, right.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
And I watched that.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
I was like, sheesh, I forgot about I forgot about that.
In the opening when they talk to the mister Kyle
and he does mention that they want to move to Tulsa. Yeah,
maybe this is actually about the tragedy of uh, you know,
capital and labor having to follow you know, the market,
and and it's just it's a tragedy about how unrooted

(42:11):
we are from from our homes because of the system
in which we live. Tony, what are your thoughts.

Speaker 4 (42:17):
Well, I'm on a piggyback here on what Lake just said.
I mean, I caught that too. I watched this yesterday
and finished it this morning. But also I wondered when
Billy tripped one of the brothers that fell on the hatchet,
I was like, is that involuntary manslaughter? And you know,
because it was pretty, they were pretty, they kind of
glossed over the fact that in a fight over this

(42:41):
white whale that he was chasing.

Speaker 11 (42:44):
Here.

Speaker 4 (42:44):
Uh so when he's inconsolably sad and his beloved dogs
have died and his mom's like, well, I guess we're
going to do the thing. Sorry, Billy, I'm kind of like, well,
Billy killed the kid like two weeks earlier, and you
guys didn't even seem to care.

Speaker 10 (43:04):
No.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
The next scene was they're eating dinner and grandpa really
wanted him to enter into the coon hunting tournament.

Speaker 4 (43:09):
Right right, They moved on real quick.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
Yeah, it's a movie about two dogs dying, but a
kid dies in the middle of it, and.

Speaker 4 (43:15):
That's just sort of hes kind of a prick.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
Yeah, it's like whatever.

Speaker 5 (43:21):
The Grandpa's like, look, Billy, I know you killed that kid.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Yeah, but and his dad was a bad guy too.
His dad really right drives a hard bargain.

Speaker 4 (43:28):
Well, I mean, but I think that was the lesson there, right, Yeah,
so the bad dad has bad kids. Yeah, the good
dad figures out a way to facilitate this coon dog
situation with Billy and it changes his life and he
becomes a man and movest Tulsa.

Speaker 5 (43:41):
And I keep pinging on like the parent thing.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Before Little Ann dies, there's a scene where it shows
like Little Anne's distraught and she's not doing very well,
and she's on the floor and Billy's trying to get
her to eat, and the dad turns around at the
dinner table. He's like looking at somebody's got he pulls
his glasses off, he goes just looks like the life's
gone out of her anyway, and then he just.

Speaker 4 (43:59):
Goes back to do what doing got, like young boy, Or.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
When he brings back old Dan and he's like working
on him in the kitchen table, he just says something like,
I've never seen wounds this bad before. Needless to say, it.

Speaker 5 (44:17):
Did not hold up for what I remembered in second grade.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
Yeah, yeah, I was. I was also struck by how
often I had to go back and rewatch a scene
because the lighting was so bad that I couldn't tell
what had happened, right, I would like when they got
to the funeral, I went I had to go back.
I was like, what did one of those kids die?
And did Billy die? And then I went back and
saw that the hatchet thing again, same with the lions
scene happened very quickly.

Speaker 5 (44:41):
What I want to know, how did they film that?

Speaker 2 (44:45):
Like the Lions scene?

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yeah, and then like they didn't have c G I
back then.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
I think they threw a mountain with those two dogs.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Ye, lions, see what happens?

Speaker 4 (44:55):
That's the homeword bound thing.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
I yeah. I didn't think this movie really warranted a
traditional discussion of what was realistic in it from an
outdoorsman's perspective and what fell flat from an outdoorsman's perspective,
because I walked away from it and just thought, oh
my god, there's a lot to say and there's also
not a lot to say, right, Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
Yeah, Sean Sean says, why the hell do all the
classic animal books end with death? Where the red friend
grills Old Yellow, Old Yellow? The yearling. I'm forgetting a few,
but can't we have a few creatures that live happily
ever after, And like it is true if pets, dogs
especially I feel are used a lot. It's kind of
like narrative. I don't want to say crutches, because a
lot of times the dogs are the point of the story.
They drive to apply. But it's it's their their death

(45:45):
or our fear of losing them that just it's like
a short cut to the heart strings, you know. I'm
trying to think of like animals that just like pets,
that are a part of a story, that are a
main part of a story, that end up living throughout
the whole movie or the whole book.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
It's literally called a dog writing yeaheah, I mean it's
a it's a trope.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
I just but I it's just shocking to me. The
guy was like, I got an idea for a book.
Dogs die. Here's the here's the twist. He didn't have
the dogs when the book began, and he had to
get the dogs. But then the dogs die. That's it.
That's it.

Speaker 4 (46:21):
Yeah, but that's a story I mean that's been replayed,
that's been repackaged a lot.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Yeah, Yeah, it's a It's like a modern day Romeo
and Juliet. You know, is it I died young? Yeah?
I mean, that's that's another story. Just stands with people
that right. I think there is something to be said
for creative works that just end with untimely deaths and
then that's just the end, you know.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
I think I think a good use of a dog
in media that kind of subverted the trope but also
fulfilled it is that episode of Futurama. Have you seen
a Futurama before? And many of you, oh, okay, it's
going to be a dull conversation. But the dog doesn't die,
but his owner, Fry gets gets trapped cryogenically frozen and
you know, travels through time. That's the whole idea of
the show. But there's an episode that focuses on the

(47:05):
dog he had before he was frozen. And then the
episode ends with the dog just waiting outside the pizza
place that he where he works at, without knowing he
was frozen. And it shows the seasons like time laps,
the dog gets older and older and old. Goh jeez,
it's incredibly moving.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
I will say. I will say, just as my final thought,
the most realistic aspect about this movie for me was
that the hounds just turned barking into background noise right.

Speaker 10 (47:33):
Like.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
I was sitting there at my desk and just every
now and then I would register that dogs are barking,
and I was like, Oh, this is exactly what it's
like to spend time around hound dogs, right, yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:41):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
And then the one runs out of house and just
jumps on the logs for no reason. I was like, yep,
that's a hound dog.

Speaker 4 (47:48):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
So any final thoughts, I think we're running a little
overtime for a next guest here.

Speaker 5 (47:56):
I wish I would have kept it in second grade.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Yeah, yeah, some things are best left right in the ground.
Onto our next guest. Our next guest is a wildlife
parasitologist and the director of Clinical Parasitology at Cornell University,
doctor Mani Lagerne Mani, welcome to the show.

Speaker 10 (48:17):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
Thanks for joining us. So you are on to talk
about ticks, and I think when it comes to dogs,
we're thinking prevention. So what is the best flea or
tick preventative on the market today and is there anything
that's a sure thing, uh tick preventative measure we could take.

Speaker 11 (48:41):
I think my first advice is like the local veterinary practitioners,
they should be the best bet to forminate a plan
for treatment or control of tics. But I can just
probably comment on the trucks that are available on the market.
They can be broadly classified into two like one that
builds the tick and the other one that actually kills

(49:01):
the tick the repellance. One good example is permathrain as
the name suggest, like, you know, you apply on to
the skin and then they kind of not allow the
tick to attached to and take a blood meal and
that's what they do. But if the ticks are exposed
to prolong to this drug, they can in fact kill
the ticks.

Speaker 10 (49:22):
But the second category, which actually kills.

Speaker 11 (49:24):
The tack, like, there are a lot of threats available
the early version of those drugs, like their bit messy.
You need to apply on to the skin and h
and again there are a lot of safety concerns, say
after applying it until it dry, like you kind of
allow other pets to access the dog that got this
application as well as kids like you know, they are

(49:45):
not allowed to touch because of those safety issues and limitation.
The oners are not like actually combined with this drug
administration because in some areas where like the tick issues
the animal issue, like you know, like it is your
long issue, like you need to periodic we apply this.
But because of this limitation, it's really hard for somebody
to apply that. But the newer version, like they are

(50:06):
really good, like so they are designed for a rapid
kill of ticks like and these drugs are available both
as a topical application onto the skin as well as
like the drugs can also be given orally, so that's
the good part of this drug. And this drug class
is called the iso ice o soling.

Speaker 10 (50:28):
Sorry about the tough pronunciation.

Speaker 11 (50:29):
Of this, but again these are very good, very good
drug like you know once are like taken orally or
apply topically, and they can kill the tick within two
to eight hours, depending on which drugs you use. They
are that effective rapid kill. And then some of the
drugs in this class are also mount acting, like they
are effective for twelve weeks, and many other drugs are

(50:50):
effective for twenty eight days. So then you could establish
a periodicity of this application and the owners can comply
with And so I think like the new class of
drug which can be given oral, is the best bet
that are in the market to control a pluent tick infestation.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Gotcha, thank You's.

Speaker 11 (51:08):
In question asked about like be if it is founded person,
I would say, like, the main issue here is owned
as compliance the lack of picacy, that the perceived lack
of efficacy is mainly due to lack of compliance with
the way the drug need to be administered, following the
label instruction or following the guidance from the web. Like

(51:28):
if everything is followed perfect, like the drugs are highly effective,
any drugs that are a in the market, they're highly effective.
But on the other hand, like I also want to
say that no drug is one hundred percent effective. Despite
you follow all the protocol label instruction, you still see
some ticks hanging onto the body.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
So yeah, so the big thing is following the following
the manufacturer's directions rather than picking out a specific product
on the market. That's correct, gotcha. So the second thing
that I think about when I think about ticks is
limes disease. And here in Montana, there's just in the
news that we have our first known case of a

(52:09):
deer tick with limes disease in the state. Is this
surprising to you or would you have expected this discovery sooner.
I mean, how does what does the spread of limes
disease look like? From a from the chair of an expert.

Speaker 11 (52:22):
I read this news as well, So lime dis is
very common here in New England.

Speaker 10 (52:28):
I'm from New York, So New England states like it's.

Speaker 11 (52:30):
Very common, and and and in mid Atlantic states, yes
it is there and also Upper Midwest is way like
you would expect lane disease on the ticks that transmits this, Uh,
this disease is more prevalent in data. But the fact is,
like a geographic range expansion for this tick is happening,

(52:51):
not just for this stick, for other ticks also across us. Like,
a geographic range expansion is happening. And now in that
like it is not surprising. But I read the news
and it seems like they collected this stick from a
hunting dog and then identify what the stick and also
found line in there. But it seems to me an introaction.

(53:13):
It's an introduction event. I don't know if the tick
is actually established in it. So when I say introduction
and see, so there are a lot of factors that
plays for a tick to get established in a particular
geographic locality like.

Speaker 10 (53:27):
Host species abundant.

Speaker 11 (53:28):
So in this case the deer tick, if you have
a white tail deer population which is exploding, yes, that's
a place where like this stick can s.

Speaker 10 (53:35):
A Why not just a white tail deer.

Speaker 11 (53:37):
There are other hosts like rodents and even birds, migrated birds,
all those so and again the other things such as
some micro habitat that would help with establishment of the stick.
So everything need to be lined up for the tick
to establish. So if it is just an introductory event,
like it happens with a lot of ticks in different places,

(54:00):
the ticks get introduced safe for example migratory birds when
they carry the nimful stage of the stick and they
can drop the stick of places, but on that place
where it is dropped off like, it need to established
and a lot of factors space rule for getting this
established up. So I can give one example here in
New York, like in Long Island, which is the east

(54:21):
of New York City. So thirty years ago loan start
tic which is not the deer tick. The loan start
tick was not in that known to occur in that space,
but at the eastern end of that Long Island it
was introduced three decades ago, and then the slowly spread
and now the entire Long Island is like full of
loan star tick. That's because of the white tailed deer

(54:43):
population which is like exploding exploded in that region, as
well as the wild turkey, which can host the stage
of the stick.

Speaker 10 (54:52):
You know, they are also re establishing in that region.

Speaker 11 (54:55):
So all these play played a major factor in allowing
the lone start to establish in that area. So the
same could be true for a dear take to establish
in a place like it has to have all these
factors in place.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
So say you find a tick on yourself or your dog,
what do you want to look for in terms of
determining whether or not you should be worried? And then like,
what are some of the symptoms that would make you
concerned if they develop after finding a tick on your
your dog as far as Lin's disease, go.

Speaker 10 (55:30):
On for line disease.

Speaker 11 (55:32):
You know, dogs like they are not like humans in humans, like,
if you're bidden by a tick, dear take, like, it's
easy to see that you react to it and then
you get the disease and the bull sization, which we
all know can be caused by by the interaction of
the line disease into a host, especially in humans. But

(55:53):
the dogs they are different, like the disease are not
like typical, like the signs are not typical. And sometimes
like the dog don't even suffer from the disease, there
is symptomatic So it is really hard to say if
the dog has like based on looking at like.

Speaker 10 (56:09):
You know the dog has picked up the disease or not.

Speaker 11 (56:11):
But other non uh, I would say so other signs
such as like a fever and outrider is all those
things can occur.

Speaker 10 (56:20):
So I think like a consulting event.

Speaker 11 (56:22):
Is the best bet to confirm if the lime disease
is present by doing all additional ancileraty testing.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Gotcha, And one final question for you, other than other
than lime disease, what are some other Are there other
tick borne illnesses that dog owners should be worried about
or aware of, not.

Speaker 11 (56:45):
Just the deer tick, Like there are three other ticks
that dogs can be infected with. In fact, like I
would say four others uh so the American doctic, the
lone star tick, and the brown doctic and the reason
one is the Asian long ham takes. So these all
can affect dogs and they come with their own pathogens
to transmit.

Speaker 10 (57:05):
And I just want to comment about the Asian long
con take.

Speaker 11 (57:08):
So this tick was not here in the US and
it was deducted in twenty seventeen in New.

Speaker 10 (57:12):
Jersey on a sheep.

Speaker 11 (57:14):
And this stick has a wide host preference and they
are seen in plenty in environment where this occurs and
as oft. Now as for the USDA study, like a
twenty one states where like the sticks has already been identified,
but not onto Montana like I think like a cancers
and the Missouri is where like it has been documented

(57:35):
so far, but they can affect dogs and they can
transmit what is it called the Rocky Mountain spotted fever
so in Montana like the Rocky Mountain would tick which
is responsible for trance meeting Rocky Mountain spotted fever to
humans as well as saying dogs.

Speaker 10 (57:52):
But I know we know like it occurs there.

Speaker 11 (57:55):
But if this new Asian long on tick, if they
spread to this new geographical area, they can be of
major concern. The reason is like Asian long on tick
or not like other ticks.

Speaker 10 (58:07):
Like other ticks, they.

Speaker 11 (58:08):
May they need for producing progenies. A female needs a male,
but with Asian long on tick like the females don't
need a it doesn't need a male like. They can
just produce progenies on their own. So if they hop
onto your host like they can produce, they can have
a blad meal produce a lot of progenies and then
they can swarm onto the host. And in some places

(58:30):
in Virginia, West Virginia, we have seen cases where like
cattle are infected with this host with this tick and
then they just drink blood and the host to death.

Speaker 10 (58:40):
So that's one concern, but they are they can.

Speaker 11 (58:43):
Also transmit Rocky Mountain spotted fever, so in new location
where the ticks emerge, and they can be of concern
for transmitting Rocky Mountain spot of few.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
Gotcha, well, doctor Legerine, thank you so much for joining
us today and uh sharing some your expertise with our audience.

Speaker 10 (59:03):
Yeah, thank you for hasping me. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (59:08):
Now.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Our final segment this week is Throwback Thursday Dog Edition.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
Throw Back on a Thursday morn, Stephen Brody, take me
back to nineteen seventy four.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
Throw back.

Speaker 7 (59:24):
I can't believe it, did?

Speaker 9 (59:26):
I mention Stephen Brody our.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
Old ass that's the kind of stuff we like to
do around here to have fun. Right, listen to Phil's jingles.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
Pretty silly, huh, it's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Well throw back Thursdays where we each share a photo
and share the tale that goes with our photos. Phil,
who do you have up first? For us?

Speaker 3 (59:47):
I believe I have you first, but I can switch
it up in.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
Oh no, no, let's go with what you have. I
don't want to cause any more trouble than I have already. Oh,
so this is I had a hard time picking some
of my dog photos and trying to simbliss story out
of them, so I thought i'd Dolly had an interesting
hunting season this year, and people ask if I have
a hunting dog, and I say no, but she does
end up going hunting quite a bit. This is her

(01:00:10):
as a puppy being used using an FHF bino harness
as a puppy carrier looking for some spring bears. And
then over time that was her first hunting trip. Over time,
we try to teach her about safety in the field.
Next photo please, We practiced our marksmanship together. Next photo please,

(01:00:33):
And we did some habitat work, you know, giving back
to the wildlife that we all love. Next photo, please,
So Dolly joined us on a few hunts this fall.
This is a deer that my wife Sydney shot, and
you can see Dolly there on the right and then
Rosie the good dog on the left. Next photo. The

(01:00:53):
day after that, we helped my buddy pack out an
elk and Dolly discovered her discovered her love for elk
and elk content. Next photo please. She carried the fore
limb of that elk for about one and a half
miles and then mysteriously dropped it once we got very
near to the vehicle. And then last, I believe this
is my last photo. Then she accompanied us on a

(01:01:15):
bison hunt and she went ape shit on that bison
and just every little piece of trim that came off,
Dolly ate it. And then she was very interested in
the hide as well. So you know, that's just sort
of a nonsensical, nonlinear explanation of my hunting experience with
my non hunting dogs.

Speaker 5 (01:01:36):
That was lovely.

Speaker 4 (01:01:37):
Thank you, beautiful Blake.

Speaker 3 (01:01:39):
I've got your pictures up next. I didn't. I was
wasn't sure the order you wanted to.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Get in, So I don't think they're in any particular order.
So that's that's my dog Knox.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
That's a real hunting dog.

Speaker 5 (01:01:49):
Yeah, he's one of those.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
Yeah, that picture in particular is important because that is
the first pheasant, wild pheasant we were in North Kansas.
It's the first wild isn't that He found him flushed
and retrieved him all by himself, and I was I
think I.

Speaker 5 (01:02:05):
Was prouder than he was.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
I was.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
I was pretty pumped that. Okay, that's a special one.
That's his first duck hunt ever. He would have been
like six months old at the time, and again I
think I was probably prouder than he was. Next photo polise, Sir,
I like this one in particular because I forgot the
dog stand that morning. So if you'll notice, he's sitting
on the bottom, the bottom half of a climber stand

(01:02:27):
and that is a cutout square patch of carpet.

Speaker 5 (01:02:30):
That I'm using so it doesn't fall through it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
That's great.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Yeah, yeah, fantastic ingenuity.

Speaker 5 (01:02:36):
Oh this is my favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
So that's my wife Lacey, and uh, that was her
first duck she ever killed, big pretty green head and
it was just icing on the cake. I mean, there's anyone.

Speaker 5 (01:02:46):
Knows me like I'd love hunting with my dog. It's
just what and so being able to hunt with my wife.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
She shot that duck and then Knox went and retrieved it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:53):
I was I was so happy. Is that? I think
that's it? Is there anymore?

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
That was a duplicate.

Speaker 5 (01:02:58):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
That's so that's the archives of Knocks my dog.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
Good looking dog.

Speaker 5 (01:03:03):
Yeah, he's fun. He's a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
How old is he?

Speaker 5 (01:03:05):
Seven? Just turned seven last month?

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
All right, Tony, we've got a photo for you here.

Speaker 4 (01:03:10):
So this is the only photo I put in because
this story is gonna take me a little while. So
this is this dog's twelve now, but in this photo
she was about a year. And for people who don't
know I, this dog's twelve. I have two thirteen year
old daughters. So I got a puppy, this puppy when
my daughters were one, which was a lot. So my
wife and I still fight about this, even though I'm right.

(01:03:33):
My wife came home and left a bag of groceries
on the counter. I come home later and the groceries
are on the floor and there's some rappers strewn around.
Because she's a lab, right, we left her home at
a lab or lab was home alone. I start looking
at it and I go, man, this looks like a
big box of raisins and they're all gone, and so

(01:03:55):
caught my wife. I'm like, hey, did you She's like, yeah,
I bought a pound of raisins, probably the only pound
of raisins we've bought in her life. Dog ate the
whole thing. They're supposed to be toxic to dog. So
I'm freaking out. So I take her to the vet
and she spends all day at our regular vet, and
the vet calls me and says, hey, you got to
get this dog to an overnight vet to monitor it,

(01:04:15):
keep it, keep the fluids going so it's kidneys don't
get messed up. So I'm wrangling too, you know, a
year and a half old kids and this dog. Take
her to the overnight vet, which is not cheap. And
then the next morning they call me up and I
got to go get her, and they're like, I don't
think any amount of raisins could kill this dog, but
so I load up the girls.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
They're in there.

Speaker 4 (01:04:37):
Pj's walk in there and Luna had never been away
from us, so Luna was losing her shit. And I
hear this dog going nuts in the background, while I've
got my two little girls who can stand and walk
but not real well, the vetech comes around the corner
like she's water skiing behind my dog, who heard my
voice and has the ConA shame on. Luna runs out.

(01:05:00):
The first thing she does is run up to one
of my daughters and send her fly in, and my
daughter hits the floor where the scale, the dog scale
is on the floor with her face, and so my
daughter's screaming and has blood coming out of her nose.
My dog's losing her mind, and I have another child
to wrangle who's just watching the whole spectacle. So we

(01:05:21):
get We get my daughter's nose stopped up, go outside.
I load up the girls in their car seats because
I was kind of discombobulated. I didn't have the crate
with so I put Luna in the front seat and
I pull out into rush hour traffic and I look
over and Luna makes eye contact with me and just
starts pissing because she was so hydrated and the whole

(01:05:43):
and I have nowhere to go because I'm in rush
hour traffic now, So this dog's like looking me in
the eyes. Well, I'm like looking down and there's just
this puddle spreading through. So anyway, raisins are probably toxic
to some dogs for sure, not that one man.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
That's good. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. We we accidentally we
came home from the bar one night whether and our
first dog was there, and we're eating grapes and we're
throwing them up in the air and catching them. And
we started throwing them up in the air to the arlow.
We looked at each other and go, wait a second,
our grapes toxic for dogs. And we looked it up
and that's when we did the first uh you know,

(01:06:22):
hydrogen peroxide, shake them up and let them blast it
all out on the back lawn trick. We had to
do that with Arlow. Yeah. Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:06:31):
So I tried that with Luna and she just sat
there drinking that up. She's like, give me more hydrogen peroxide.
Oh like she didn't. It didn't work.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
No, we've used it a couple of times. Uh, we've
used it a couple of times that that dog, Arlot
had a very similar deal. We we made a bunch
of soup, Like we made soup and stew and stuff
all day and froze it all, and so the trash
had like ten different pound like plastic wrappers from from
Burger and you know, all the meat and stuff, and

(01:07:00):
then two Costco chicken carcasses in there. So I took
Dolly to the vet because she was like six months old.
And I got back and I the trash is everywhere.
I'm like, where all the meat wrappers? Where are the
chicken carcasses? And we go to the vet and the
Vet's like, I don't know what to tell you, man,
It's either gonna come out or it's not right and

(01:07:22):
pay attention.

Speaker 3 (01:07:23):
Do you guys know if that's a breed thing or
a size thing? Like why does the stuff like because
I hear the same thing about like garlic and obviously
chocolate and stuff like that where some dogs can have
no problem with it but others don't.

Speaker 4 (01:07:34):
It definitely is a toxicity thing that way.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
Yeah, Because I will say we always heard like grapes,
like don't touch grapes with a dog, and it's bad.
But most of the stories I've heard are like yours,
where it's like just turns out to be okay.

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
Yeah. Hm, Well, I'm glad that you and your daughters
and your dog were none the worse for wear after
all that, although you're you're it's just seat of your truck.
Sounds like it got the worst of it.

Speaker 4 (01:07:57):
Uh did? It was very It was easier pe to
clean up than it could have been because she was
so hydrated, which was part of the problem. Ye, It
was more the fact that it was like a thirty
hour ordeal that cost me like a grand Yeah, for
nothing other than my wife making that huge mistake and
putting my dog in danger. Yeah, I would like to.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
Say, gotcha. Well, I'm glad, glad that it all turned
out all right.

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
It did.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
That brings us to the end of the show, folks, Phil,
do we have any final listener feedback?

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
Yeah? I thought i'd go back to some interesting comments
we got during the movie Club We have. Peter He says, Wow,
Randall needs a hug, and Jesus Bradley says he might
cry in pity for Randall. Right now, Brian Lammer says,
what just happened? MD Outdoor says JFC Randall. Josh says,

(01:08:47):
tune into meat Eater today for your existential crisis, and
Brian says hand on face emoji. And then I kill again,
says my dog stopped wanting treats, even the highest, stinkiest
reward treats. It does not care about praise while training.
Do you have suggestions? Thank you, gents, Never take that one.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
Never run into that issue before. Uh, he doesn't like
any anything.

Speaker 4 (01:09:14):
I would ask, well, what kind of dog, right, because
I'd like to retrieve.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:09:19):
Does it have a special object where it's like that
toy is my toy? Like there you have to find
something that cares about.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
Yeah. And if your dog doesn't care about anything, truly anything, Yep,
they should seek professional.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
Help because I can think of some instances where the
dog not wanting treats might not be a bad thing,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
Yeah, it's double edged sword.

Speaker 4 (01:09:40):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:09:41):
Nick asks why are there still hot dogs left?

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
It's a fair.

Speaker 4 (01:09:45):
Point there won't be in about five minutes with.

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
Nick, the hot dogs came in here about fifteen minutes
before the show. I ate three of them before the
show and started on my fourth at the beginning, and
then I felt sick. So I'm just going to be
very forthright with the audience. I felt sick for meeting
too many hot dogs.

Speaker 3 (01:10:04):
Next question, Phil, you know we Brody had this problem
a few weeks Spencer was in the chat, yeah, and
fielding questions and just throwing off the whole cadence of
the listener feedback portion. He's been doing that again this
whole hour. He's been answering questions for people in the
chat and I it's we've and so we don't have
a lot of questions to pull from if you so,

(01:10:26):
if you guys have some, this is your last chance.
He got about thirty seconds here question Randa will have
another hot dog while while you get those questions.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
I've still got this nubbins left. It's cold. I any
more questions for one, two, three, We're running out a
dog week your gang. That's a weird way to end
a show. Thanks for joining us, everybody. This has been
a lot of fun. I hope you enjoyed. Tony Lake,

(01:10:56):
thanks for thanks for stopping by. We'll see you next
week on Media Radio Live, same place, same time. Sad enough,
m