Ep. 772: Bullwhacker, Dinky Rifle Calibers, and Whitetail Bucks | MeatEater Radio Live!

Hosts Brody Henderson, Randall Williams, and Jordan Sillars talk with Mike Kautz of American Prairie about a recent land access victory, throwback to whitetails of their past, chat with Tyler Freel of the Tundra Talk Podcast about cartridge choice when hunting big game, and share their dream whitetail hunts.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Smell us now, lady, welcome to metast.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome everybody to Meet Eater Radio Live. It's eleven am
here at Media HQ and Bozeman. That's one pm in
my hometown of Edinburgh, Pennsylvania, where archery season. Archery white
tail season is now open for all you bow guys
and crossbow guys. Yeah, arrow guns we call them. I'm

(00:47):
your host, Brody. I'm joined today by the only person
who occasionally threatens my total domination of mediator trivia, Randall Williams.
You beat me yesterday.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
And what's that It's not really a spoiler. I mean
not really if someone's expecting it already.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
We've also got Jordan Siller's Uh he's our very own
expert on all things firearms, aren't you?

Speaker 3 (01:18):
I do my best?

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, I read your stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:20):
It's goods.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
This week, we've got a couple of great interviews Versus
about a huge public access win here in Montana. And
we're also going to be talking to that you like this, Jordan,
We're gonna be talking to someone about shooting great big
game animals with little dinky rifle cartridges. And uh, first,
since this is white tail week at Meat Eater, Uh,

(01:44):
when we celebrate all things white tail hunting. We're also
going to share uh some white tail buck stuff, a
throwback Thursday, and and a white tail dream hunt deal
that we're going to talk about. Uh speaking of white
Tail Week, which is brought to you by by our
friends at sigsur. Not only do we have deals across

(02:04):
all the media to brands, including up to forty percent
off at first Light, and there's great deals on the
Mediator website too, we're also dropping a steady supply of
fresh whitetail content. We're running a real fun competition to
decide which state is the best whitetail hunting state. You
can go check that out at the mediater dot com.

(02:28):
Go check out first light dot com to get yourself
outfitted for like all the different conditions you're going to
run into during three four months of white tail season.
So like there's something there you're gonna find that you need,
and you don't even have to be a white tail hunter.
Take advantage of this sale. There's all there's like all
kinds of all purpose stuff on sale at first Light
too and again discounted mercht at the mediater dot com.

(02:52):
So get on there. How long is this thing go
on till Sunday.

Speaker 4 (02:58):
That would be a good question.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
I think you got a couple few more days to
take advantage of it.

Speaker 5 (03:03):
It's all over the web stever here, he'd go, Come on, Randall, Yeah,
he wouldn't know either, though.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
I mean, we're busy doing this stuff. We can't keep
track of everything, and we're so busy that we're gonna
skip the chit chat today because we have a lot
of a lot we're going to cover and in place
of chit chat, real quick, Jordan, you haven't been on
the show that much, so introduce yourself sure, and tell
everyone real quick about your the crazy new podcast you're doing.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (03:32):
Absolutely, Yeah, I'm Jordan Sillers. I'm a managing editor for
the website and then I also help Cal with his podcast,
Cal's Week in Review. Starting up a new podcast. We
launched a pilot episode in March that you may have seen.
It's called Blood Trails. It's a true crime podcast about hunters, anglers, campers, hikers,

(03:53):
you know, everyone sort of in our world and really
excited about it. We have eight episod so it's coming
out in this first season. We have a story of
a hunter who disappeared under very suspicious circumstances. We have
a story of a hunter who was found stabbed seventeen

(04:15):
times and the medical examiner ruled a suicide.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
So that's Randa, Where were you during that time?

Speaker 4 (04:21):
Yeah, i'd have to know. I need the details because
I was not involved. Noted noted.

Speaker 6 (04:29):
There's a story of a hunter who was shot with
his own rifle. Uh, and there's thoughts about whether it
was someone close to him who may have done it.
So lots of really interesting stories. We think it's you know,
we hope people like it and we're really excited.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Oh man, I mean, of course they're gonna like it.
Like the true crime genre is like bananas these days,
and and I think you've already got like the hunting
crowd locked in, So you need to market this to
like suburban soccer moms who there you go spend their
time watching true crime? Well, hey on Netflix.

Speaker 6 (05:01):
Right listen if if you love me eater content and
you've always wanted to get your wife to watch or
listen to me eater content, Yeah, this is this is
for you. You know, you guys can do this together.
I feel like I'm just bringing you know, strengthening relationships.

Speaker 5 (05:15):
Do this every time I get into Sydney's car to
go somewhere with her. As soon as the cars powered on,
it's just immediately then he plunged the dagger in up.

Speaker 4 (05:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (05:29):
And one thing I just wanted to say, so, speaking
of the true crime genre, a lot of it out
there is you know, it's it's someone they read some
new stories, they read Wikipedia and that's and then they
kind of chat about it. This is not that, this
is original reporting. I talked to the people, Yeah, I mean,
I talked to the people who were involved, as long
as they're willing to talk to me, the family of

(05:51):
the victim, the law enforcement who investigated it, and we
tell you things that no one else has reported before.

Speaker 5 (05:57):
And I will say too, like the the genre occasionally
leans into like the lurid, sure voyeuristic, and this is
very much not that. It's very much like straightforward, empathetic
reporting about pretty tragic situation.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
I just gave Jordan a lead today or yesterday on
something that maybe someday will end up in the podcast.

Speaker 4 (06:21):
We'll see.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, I'm not going to say any more about that.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, we'll see.

Speaker 6 (06:25):
I'm looking into it.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, all right, guys, we're gonna move on because we
got a bunch to talk about today. For our first
interview today, we've got Mike Coutz. I hope I pronounce
that right. Mike is the vice president of Access and
Infrastructure at American Prairie, which was formerly American Prairie Reserve.
They recently simplified it and they're just American Prairie now.

(06:49):
I hope I'm getting that right. Anyway, American Prairie is
an organization with a goal restoring and preserving short grasp
prairie ecosystems in central in northern Montana. It's an ecosystem
that's kind of suffering all over the country, and these
guys are doing a lot of good work here in
Montana and a big part of that plan they're what

(07:13):
they might be known for the best is re establishing
wild bison populations in that part of Montana. We've got
Mike on the line, Phil, here's Mike. Mike. Hey, guys,
thanks for joining us today. Having us to start out,
just give folks like the real quick version of who

(07:35):
American Prairie is, what they do and how they operate
as far as acquiring property to build into this collection
of hopefully interconnected shortcrass prairie landscapes.

Speaker 7 (07:51):
Sure, sure so.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
American Prairie is a Montana based nonprofit. We've been around
for over twenty years now, and as you mentioned, our
goal is.

Speaker 7 (08:01):
To and our work is to.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Buy and acquire land that we manage for public access
and for wildlife habitat along the Missouri Breaks and the
Charles M. Russell National Wildlife Refuge, so that eventually we
have enough habitat to restore and intact prairie short grass ecosystem.
And we work on a willing buyer, willing selling, willing

(08:26):
seller model, and we've done I think over fifty land
transactions at this point, and.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
How many total acres, Mike.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Right now we're sitting in about six hundred and three
thousand acres.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
Of deeta in the leased land just a little bit.

Speaker 7 (08:47):
It's a lot of driving that.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, Yeah, my favorite part of the state up there
where you guys are working. Now. You mentioned that it's
a willing seller, willing buyer situations when you're acquiring these properties,
but I'd kind of be remiss to like not address
the fact that up in that part of Montana there's

(09:10):
like a certain group of people, like not everyone, but
like there's definitely like some pushback from some of the
locals in that part of the state about what you
guys are doing, and I just want to give you
a chance to speak to that and let us know
what's going on with that.

Speaker 7 (09:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Absolutely, I think any big conservation project is not without controversy,
and we're certainly no exception to that. So when you
drive in that part of the state, you'll see save
the Cowboys, Stop American Praiority signs.

Speaker 7 (09:44):
Those are produced.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
By United Property Owners of Montana, which I encourage anyone
listening to this and folks who are from outside the
state and trying to study up on this, you can
just go to their website and see what they see,
what they're about. And some of this is simply, you know,
a disagreement over how you manage landscape, and some of

(10:11):
it is I think concern over you know, changes you
know in the region, and some of it it's just
that we're new, you know again, twenty years in Montana
is an eyeblink and so some of it's just been
we've had to go out there and earn trust, say
what we're going to do, and then back that up

(10:33):
with action, and so I think what you find is
we go out, you talk to our over the fence neighbors,
you talk to the more than sixty ranchers in the
region that we partner with on leasing grass or working
through our wild Sky program.

Speaker 7 (10:49):
Together, you find that actually we have great relationships.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
And I think you know head on, we are not
the enemy of Montana agriculture.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Sure, yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
Agriculture does great. The reason that we can do this
in this part of the world is because all of
the good stewardship that Montana ranchers have carried out for
generations on this landscape. And often we find that we
actually have the same goal, which is that we're hoping
that and working to have this landscape look much like
it does right now. Slightly different methods there sometimes, but

(11:25):
at the end of the day, we want this place
to you know, as you're saying, it is one of
the most spectacular parts not only Montana, but the entire
United States, and we'll all work in to make sure
it stays that way.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
And something I'll point out is that on like I'm
not sure like what percentage of the acreage this is
true on, but there's still cattle ranching going on on
some of your properties.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, and again that's you know, I think, you know,
when folks say, hey, there's controversy around this, a lot
of that controversy is coming from a lack of understanding
of what we actually do. So, you know, we're sometimes
get cast as like these bison folks who want wild
bison everywhere. We manage our bison as livestock, so we

(12:15):
disease test them. They're contained behind fences. They're not wild,
free roaming bison. They're an important part of conserving them
as a species, but they're not wild and free roaming.
And we have about eight hundred and fifty bison right
now on two properties.

Speaker 7 (12:31):
We have over seven thousand cattle on our properties. So
most of our properties, the grazer that does.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
That role in the ecosystem, you know, which again is
a really important one, is cattle. And again, I was
listening to Cal on the Joe Rogan podcast this week
while I was driving, and it was awesome to hear
him talking in front of such a huge audience about
the value of prairies and that prairies globally are disappearing
faster than any other ecosystem, and we have one of

(13:03):
the best chances to set aside and protect some of
our remaining grasslands anywhere in the world, right here in Montana.
And so hearing him talk to Joe about that was awesome.
And yet even cal who again, I mean, he's he's
here in Montana, you know, had a couple of bits
of misinformation about American prairie.

Speaker 7 (13:23):
You know, our our.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Money doesn't come from the Dutch. Ninety seven percent is
from within the United States. And our bison don't come
from Yellowstone. They came from Elk Island to Canada. And uh,
and we've done trades with some of our tribal neighbors
who have Yellowstone genetics in their herd.

Speaker 7 (13:39):
But but again I think that's and not to give
cal a hard time, because.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
No, no, we'll make sure he hears this, for sure.

Speaker 7 (13:46):
We don't.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
We don't let go any chance to correct cal On.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Oh well you can, you can tell me shanked it
on that one.

Speaker 7 (13:54):
He's just a mess, But he's a good guy.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
He'll acknowledged that he got wrong and make a correction.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
But uh, but you know, I think it just speaks
to look, you know, here's somebody who's really well educated
on conservation in Montana and around the US, but still
had some of you know, these sort of persistent you know,
miss misinformation about what we actually do, and a lot
of that's on us, Like we can to make.

Speaker 7 (14:19):
Sure we're out here talking to folks.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
You know, we're a bunch of Montana's We're a Montana
nonprofit buying land, opening up to public access, managing it
for wildlife.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah, let's let's talk about that. I mean, one of
the great things about American Prairie is that most, if
not I'm not sure if it's all of your properties,
but most of the properties are open to public access
for recreational purposes, which you know, it could be hiking,
wildlife viewing. I think you guys have a campground. There's

(14:54):
fishing opportunities, and there's hunting opportunities. American Prairie runs a lottery,
but for several bison hunting opportunities.

Speaker 8 (15:03):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Randall's wife last year took advantage of that and got herself.
Got herself was a great She sat a big bold no.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
No.

Speaker 4 (15:12):
She she had one of the yearling.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Oh, she had one of.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
The yearling tags.

Speaker 5 (15:15):
But honestly, the one of the coolest, wildest hunting experiences
of my life.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
You guys still eating that thing?

Speaker 4 (15:21):
Oh yeah, nice, Yeah, we just got the hide back.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
So beyond the bison thing, like, you can go on
these properties and hunt small game, upland birds, waterfowl, big
game through Montana's Block Management program, which is a public
access to private land program. It's like one of the
best programs and if not the best program of that
type in the entire country as far as I'm concerned. So, like,

(15:48):
I mean, if you're an outdoorsman, you should just be
like supporting this. I think it's a very good opportunity,
which leads us to kind of the latest big story
that involves American prairie. So Mike tell us about Bullwhacker Road,
the Wilkes brothers and your your latest acquisition and why

(16:13):
it's such an important public access win for all kinds
of outdoors enthusiasts, including hunters.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, I mean, this has been one of the things
we've been most excited about over the last couple of years.

Speaker 4 (16:26):
Here.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
We closed on a property called the Anchor Ranch that's
on the north side of the Missouri River about seventy
miles southeast to have her on the high line and
sixty six thousand acres of deeded and least land. But
most importantly the deeded land includes a four mile section
of the Bullwhacker Road that was you know, in and

(16:48):
out of court. You know, Brett French from the Billings
Gazad has done some awesome reporting on this. Anyone who's
really interested in this kind of stuff can look up
his articles. But essentially, you had a four mile section
a row that was landlocking over fifty thousand acres of
public land, mostly BLM few state sections in there. And
normally when we when we buy a property, we take

(17:11):
about a year to figure out all the public access
and you know, to do a full review of it.
This we were so excited about this we opened.

Speaker 7 (17:20):
The road right away.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, and said, look, you know this, this one's too
important to you know, sit on for a year.

Speaker 7 (17:26):
We're going to open it at least this section.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
And it's it's just one of the most historic parts
of the Northern Great Plains too, and has a fascinating history.
It's you know, part of the Cow Creek which runs
through part of the property was part of the Nez
Perce Trail, so where Chief Joseph led his people up
from the Missouri River and the ford where they crossed
on foot up.

Speaker 7 (17:49):
Into the Bears Paw Mountains, the Bullwhacker Road.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
I mean it's named that because there were guys, you know,
whipping bowls up out of the Missouri River because a
lot of years the steamboats from Saint Louis only get
up to about that point. So incredible history and just
an incredible landscape. You know, whether it's in hunting season
or whether it's in the spring, you go down in there,
I mean, it's just you know.

Speaker 7 (18:11):
An absolute maze of coolies.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
And prairie canyons, and you know, an incredible place to
get lost and to go explore.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
And again again like this, this will now open up
fifty thousand acres of what was landlocked public land.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Correct, yep, exactly, And so I mean again, a lot
of your listeners have probably seen on X and Theodore
Roosevelt Conservation Partnerships reports on landlocked public land around the country,
and there's millions of acres, and you know, one of
our goals with property purchases is to look at those

(18:51):
ones where you know, boy, if we bought that deed,
it it opens up this amount of public land too.
You know, we a couple of years ago we bought
one on the Muscleshell called the seventy three that had
ten thousand acres landlocked by I mean it was essentially
one hundred feet.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Of two tracks across the Yeah.

Speaker 7 (19:08):
So wherever possible we do that.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
And yeah, as you mentioned, you know, the vast majority
of our dataed acres are open to public access year round.

Speaker 5 (19:17):
And Mike that when that seventy three ranch sold, I mean,
I know there was an attempt to buy the by
the BLM, I believe to acquire it. They were unable
to given the sort of strictures around federal land acquisitions.
But someone was going to buy that land, right like,
like that property was for sale, someone was going to
buy it. And so in this case, because American Prairie

(19:39):
was the buyer, all that landlocked public land is now
open to the public in addition to the access that
you guys provide through block management.

Speaker 7 (19:48):
Yeah, it's just a big win.

Speaker 4 (19:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
And both of those properties too are examples of you know,
large properties that were formerly owned by out of state owners,
largely as either private hunting properties or as you know,
amenity properties or investments and so you know, again we
think a Montana based nonprofit now owning them, now managing

(20:13):
it for public access and for wildlife habitat.

Speaker 7 (20:15):
I mean, that's that's a net positive.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
I'm sitting in the room having given a presentation last
week where I was showing these, you know, these charts
for what the growth of populations in Montana have done
over the last couple of years since COVID. I mean,
we're sitting here at Bozeman and see that, you know,
it's grown by eighty six percent in the Gallatin Valley.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
This is supposed to be good news, Mike.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Well, so here's the other, you know, to set up
the good news. This is what public land you know,
has done. It's essentially flat. Yeah, not only flat, but
I mean cal has done such an incredible job at
all of you you know, at meat eater, backcountry hunters
and anglers in fighting the efforts to sell off public
land recently. But so not only have we not been

(20:59):
created more public land necessarily, you know, we've even had
you know, proposals to sell it off. So I think
that's part of the bigger, bigger world in which we
operate is Look, we are trying our hardest to shift
that a little bit, you know, because we as a species,
we certainly are making more people more of ourselves, we're

(21:20):
not necessarily, you know, doing as much to create more good,
publicly accessible land.

Speaker 7 (21:26):
And that's a big.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
Part of what gets me up every day and into
the office and out in the field.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah. So got asked, new property, is it open to hunting?

Speaker 7 (21:40):
Not this year?

Speaker 1 (21:41):
This is yhere. We got to take it to h
And as you were saying, you know, b M A contracts,
generally we finalize those in May or June.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, so it just wasn't the timing wasn't right.

Speaker 7 (21:52):
Exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
So I'd say, stay tuned, you know, we'll have a
public access you know policy. I'd say by by next
summer and certainly by the next hunting season.

Speaker 2 (22:03):
So but what about but the road is open, road
is open, Okay.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
So so folks can access all of the BLM and
state land to the south. And also I'll just give
my usual safety plug, like don't drive your minivan down
in there, don't take the Corolla.

Speaker 4 (22:21):
Watch the weather forecast.

Speaker 7 (22:23):
Watch the weather forecast. Right now.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
I just had a meeting with some of the BLM
monument folks this week and they were saying, there's a
there's a VW s u V rented from the Billings
Airport that's been sitting down in there.

Speaker 7 (22:36):
Since about May.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
It's nice and they couldn't get it out, so it's
it's rugged.

Speaker 7 (22:43):
You know, you got to do your homework before you
drive down in there.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yeah, don't even try if it's going to rain or snow.
It's good advice, I think, Mike, before we let you go,
thanks for all this really is good news. Can you
pull out your crystal ball and kind of give us
an idea of what we can expect from American prayer

(23:07):
kind of in the near future and and kind of
layout like what best case scenario, end goal would be
for you guys.

Speaker 7 (23:16):
Yeah, absolutely so.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
I think again, we recognize, hey, being around for twenty years,
you know, we're still earning trust. And that goes for
you know, the general public, It goes for ranchers, it
goes for hunters, it goes for you know, folks who
are just curious about, you know, what this thing is.

Speaker 7 (23:35):
They've heard of.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
So I'd say continue to look to us to you know,
illustrate our or to underwrite our words. With deeds, you know,
in terms of public access, you know, I used to
get questions like, hey, are you guys, you know, is
this some sort of bait and switch. Are you guys
just offering public access? And then you're going to like lock.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
The gates up, right, That's something I'm absolutely not.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
Like, we buy properties that have conservation easements on them.
This year, we donated one hundred and nine acres to
the state of Montana to create a state park at
Judith Landing. You know, we open previously landlocked public land
across our deeded roads and then assume the costs of
maintaining those roads. So I'd say, continue to judge us
on what we do. And you know, I think we

(24:19):
often say, look, you know, we're not asking for support
or endorsement, you know.

Speaker 7 (24:25):
Do your homework, come to your own conclusion.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
But we do ask for understanding, like just just understand
what we're actually doing. And in terms of public access, yeah,
I think it's probably going to look a lot like
what you see right now, where you know, we're in
the top ten largest landowners in the state enrolled in
that block management access program with FVP, They're an incredible
agency to work with for your listeners outside the state.

(24:48):
I mean, Montana is truly the last best place I
think as an outdoors person and as a hunter in particular.

Speaker 7 (24:55):
So it's a lot of it.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
You know, it's over eighty thousand acres available to hunt
in that program. We're building a couple more backcountry huts
in our huts system over the next two years, so
you'll see more of those and just more chances to
explore different parts of the prairie. Those have you've been
up there, know that you know some of it. It's
like incredibly steep, rugged Missouri breaks, ponderosa pines, kind of

(25:19):
bighorn sheep habitat, and then you get out on other
parts and it's kind of the rolling sagebrush sea, and
you know, we want to create opportunities for people to
go out and explore that and understand why this place
is so special and so worth.

Speaker 7 (25:33):
Protecting and handing on to the next generation.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Cool. What can people do to support you if they're
interested in doing.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
That, I'd say, you know, hey, from my standpoint, it's
come out and visit us. You can come out and
see what it looks like on the ground, and you
can plan a trip by just going to our website,
American Prairie dot org. We do have campgrounds, we have huts,
but you can also just go out and load up
your backpack and walk off, you know, you know, and

(26:00):
and spend the night. So I just encourage people to
go up there and make a visit and put your
name in the hat for the bison harvest we offer.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
It is. Yeah, I've done it so far. I'm having
drawn Mike, so, you know, just saying just saying, thanks
a lot, Mike, it was great talking to you. We'll
have to check back in with you, you know, and
if something's happening, get in touch with us and and
we'll talk again.

Speaker 7 (26:27):
We'll do we'll do all right. Thanks man, We'll see
you guys.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Okay, it's time to move on to some white Tail
week stuff. We're gonna do a throwback Thursday white Tail edition.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Go back on.

Speaker 5 (26:42):
A Thursday, Mom, Stephen Rody, take me back to night.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
I can't believe it. Did I mentioned Stephen Rody Old Ship.
I think you've mentioned that, Yeah, several times.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
I think.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
All right, guys, this is where we're gonna We're gonna
pull out the the memories today and let you guys
share some some white tail stuff with us. I think
you're up first, Randall already.

Speaker 5 (27:15):
Phil, Oh, yes, I'll point out this picture is colored
very strangely. It's an archaic digital camera. It captures my
skin tone and blaze orange in a really weird way.
But that blood trail on the right, oh yeah, real nice.
This This, this is my biggest whitetail buck. I was

(27:40):
working construction at the time in two thousand and eight,
and I was going to go down to a property
in Kentucky that we had permission to hunt. And on Friday,
I was at the job site, had my truck all
loaded up, and they pulled me aside and told me
I was getting let go. And as soon as as
soon as they handed me my Cobra paperwork for poor

(28:02):
performance No.

Speaker 7 (28:03):
No.

Speaker 5 (28:04):
Two thousand and eight, man, oh, I got yeah. It
was a big slowdown. So they I said, you know,
I'm twenty two. I think it'll be fine, and I'm
going deer hunting. So my buddy went down there and
hunted with me the first weekend. I just stayed through
the week, and then he came down for the second
weekend and on day there's probably like day nine This

(28:27):
is what I mean. This is my idea of whitetail hunting.
Was just I'm gonna sit in the same tree for
like eight days, nine days in a row. I had
a little crotchboard set up there, and at some point,
like my buddy was just going to walk across the
property at about ten or eleven o'clock. Yeah, it's it's
like a hilltop property that's sort of balled on top,

(28:48):
and then like real dense stuff going down these fingers
down to the creek. So my buddy went across and
I could hear him walking, and then all of a sudden,
this buck. I'm basic set up on an old tractor road,
like an old tractor path going down this hill, and
this buck just crosses, and so I whip around and

(29:09):
shoot off the back of the tree as he's about
to dive back into the woods, and he turns and
runs straight away from me, and I got off another shot.
Sort of ironic that we're talking Tyler here in a bit,
because that was with a forty five seventy shooting.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Uh, because Ohio is well this shotguns and straight walls,
this is this is Kentucky. Oh that was Kentucky.

Speaker 4 (29:30):
I got you.

Speaker 5 (29:31):
Well, it's just because the romance of the big straight
wall carches the size of your finger and turns out
that first shot missed, but that second one the trick
did the old did the old Texas heart shot very good,
entered just inside of the ham right near the anus,
came out the front of that left hip and uh,

(29:54):
yeah it.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Was now it happened. That's not a shot that we
would reckon men here at meat Eater. But Randall is
like such a marksman.

Speaker 4 (30:04):
Well that was a follow up.

Speaker 6 (30:07):
I know, we don't really think that.

Speaker 7 (30:10):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 5 (30:12):
You know we went over there and and actually the
the landowner who was their scout masters showed up like
right then, and he's he's British and doesn't I mean,
he was just excited to have us hunting there and.

Speaker 4 (30:22):
Oh you got a buck, you got a book, let's
see it.

Speaker 5 (30:25):
And he drove the tractor down and we chained up
to the he like just fixed up antique tractors.

Speaker 4 (30:30):
Then we hauled that thing up out of the bottom
and that was all. She wrote.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
That's still your biggest buck to date, biggest whitetail buck
it is. Yeah, where where is that? What's where is that?

Speaker 3 (30:40):
Thing.

Speaker 4 (30:40):
Now. Oh, it's I've got in my home office.

Speaker 5 (30:43):
I've got like nine deer heads just kind of scattered
on the little wall above it.

Speaker 4 (30:49):
Yeah. Youro mount. That's a homemade ero mount too nice.

Speaker 5 (30:52):
So yeah, nice fun place. I wish I still uh
got to hunt that every year because yeah, deer in
the rut with a rifle.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
Yep, speaks to me.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
All right, Jordan, you're up next. Let's see what you
got here.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
All right.

Speaker 6 (31:07):
So this isn't from super long ago. This is a
few years ago. This was out of property pretty near
to where we live in East Texas, and I really
like it. It's I don't own it, but we have
permission to hunt it, and I like it because it's
so close to our house. I can take the kids,
you know, evening Sunday evening, which is when I shot

(31:27):
this buck. And I also like remembering this hunt because
it was I don't think it was quite the last
day of the season, but it was the last day
that I was gonna hunt. I think it was right
before the last day, and this buck came in like
five minutes maybe before shooting light ended. If if he'd

(31:49):
been in the tree line I was looking at in
the stand. I might not have you know, been able
to see him, but he came in across a field
and so I could see a silhouette, you know, against
the the sky that was still bright. And in Texas
we have antler restrictions, so it has to be thirteen
inches between. And I saw him, you know, silhouetted against
the sky, and I said, looks good. It looks looks

(32:12):
like it's going to be good. So shot him from
maybe fifty yards it was not a far shot with
with a six or five creed more and he went,
you know, maybe forty or fifty yards, but he ran
kind of into the tree line, and so there was
a little bit of tension. And my son was with
me and he you know, if hunting ever becomes boring

(32:38):
or you know, kind of a drudgery, like take an
eight year old boy, you know with you. Because he
was the most stickxcited.

Speaker 4 (32:44):
He was high five.

Speaker 5 (32:46):
Was that the first deer had been a part of it?

Speaker 6 (32:49):
Was Yeah, he'd been around when I'd brought deer home
to like, you know, clean him and butcher them. But
this was the first one, the first hunt that he'd
been a part of.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
Is he now, is he hot?

Speaker 8 (32:58):
Now he is.

Speaker 6 (32:59):
Yeah, he got he got a doe last year.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
Oh great, yeah, great.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (33:03):
So he came down with, you know, with me, and
I like wanted to do it right, like find some blood,
follow the trail, but he just like right into the woods,
you know, and of course he found it first, and
just like that's excited.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yeah that's okay, Well cool, you get you gonna get
him after a buck this year?

Speaker 6 (33:19):
He yeah, he wants to. Yeah that's for sure, but
we'll see, all.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Right, guess that leaves me. This is when was this like, I.

Speaker 4 (33:31):
Don't know, mid two thousands, A little.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
No, it's like same, same camera quality as similar right.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
Around the same time as would you say, oh wait.

Speaker 5 (33:40):
Yeah, I bet this camera ran on a double a battery.

Speaker 6 (33:43):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Anyway, this is back in Pennsylvania where like this is
a place I grew up hunting. This my buddy buddy's
dad's land. My buddy's dad has now passed away, but
my buddy still hunts his property.

Speaker 5 (33:57):
And this this was.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
The first like big nice buck I had ever shot
in Pennsylvania. Grew up deer hunting. But like when I
was growing up, man like there just wasn't very many
big bucks around like this one. They just didn't live
long enough. We would see a shit ton of deer hunting,

(34:20):
but it would be like twenty two does and a
spike in a day of hunting, and like you just
shot whatever buck you had a chance to shoot. This
picture was taken I think maybe a couple years after
they the state implemented Antler point restrictions. In Pennsylvania's Antler

(34:41):
point restrictions aren't like.

Speaker 4 (34:43):
With like Texas.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
It's at the time it was most of the state
was three on one side, and this in northwestern Pennsylvania
it was three on one side plus a brow time
and a lot of guys were like very against this
new regulation at the time, but it really started paying

(35:08):
off quickly, Like you know, a percentage like of those
year and a half old bucks, a large percentage of
those year and a half old bucks that would have
gotten shot now had a chance to at least get
to another year. And now in Pennsylvania, like they're killing
big bucks, which was just not a thing that happened
very often when I was a kid. So yeah, that's

(35:31):
like my one and only nice big Pennsylvania buck there.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Nice.

Speaker 6 (35:36):
The same thing happened in Texas where people were very
against the Antler restrictions.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (35:40):
First and now you talk to pretty much everyone and
they say it was a good thing. Yeah, you know,
we're seeing a lot more big deer.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
It works. Some places, it doesn't work others they've like
Colorado tried it with mule deer. It was just like
it didn't work, just like it was a failed experiment.
But like it's definitely worked in Pennsylvania. All right, Phil,
do we got some action in the chat?

Speaker 3 (36:03):
Got a lot of action. Oh geez, I'm being less
picky about my questions here since getting so many complaints
about it.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
Leland.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
I've heard you ask this question, I think for a
month now, so I'm just gonna bring it up. Let's
get it out of the way. What are the functional
differences between alpaca and marino wool? If any, if any
of you can speak to this.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
This question should be directed to the experts at first light.

Speaker 4 (36:27):
Yeah, this sounds like yeah, why I question?

Speaker 3 (36:32):
Sorry, Leland, thanks for being here.

Speaker 4 (36:34):
Never tried out packa socks.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
Here we go. Question for Randall and the chat regarding
hot dogs? Anyone made Venison hot dogs? Have you done this? Randall?

Speaker 4 (36:43):
Tips?

Speaker 5 (36:44):
If not? Steve and I were just talking yesterday about
making a video trying to make the best venison hot dog.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, close as I've come is making brats you do.

Speaker 5 (36:54):
I mean, my understanding is that you do truly to
address the last sentence there. You do truly have to
emulsify it, just make it into goo. The tough thing
is going to be the snap. So we're we're discussing
that yesterday. You want a good, a good positive snap
on the dog. But we will hopefully address this in

(37:15):
a video at some point.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
Cool uh Ian asks on the heels of the CLBD podcast,
how often do you guys get your deer and elk tested?
I get them all or there with signs on the animal,
cause I've just gone to get.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Them all tested.

Speaker 7 (37:30):
Man.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
And in some places, like where I'm gonna hunt in
Colorado this year, it's mandatory. In other places it's a voluntary.
But I've just like I got, I just get them
all tested.

Speaker 5 (37:44):
Now, I just I test them when they're required. And
uh obviously like in Montana here we have big game
checkpoints and so they sort of catch you in a
funnel to track animals moving across the state. And so
at some of those still test, But yeah, I haven't.
I don't think I've ever voluntarily submitted something for testing.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Yeah, if you had kids, proud of that, if you
had kids, you might.

Speaker 8 (38:11):
Look at it.

Speaker 4 (38:11):
Or if I valued my own health.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Well, I mean it's not.

Speaker 4 (38:15):
Yeah, that's a joke. That's a joke.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
I know, Jordan, you doing that down and those Texans
just care.

Speaker 4 (38:25):
Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
Well.

Speaker 6 (38:27):
Our our CWD problem, you know, tends to be with
the breeding facilities.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Well, it's like that everywhere. I mean when you look
at like the spread a map from like the US
I think it's the USGS. Maybe it's fish and wildlife.
I don't know, but you can look at a map
and see where these outbreaks start and it's like almost
guarantee that in the center of that thing, Yeah, there's
a high fence.

Speaker 6 (38:50):
Yeah, and there are I know, there are areas where
the wild population, you know, there is a problem, and
there may be mandatory testing there, but not where where
I'm hunting.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
So, speaking of kids, question for Brody and Jordan. Adam's
taking a six year old daughter on her first hunt
this weekend, DIY blind in the woods. Do I let
her try and shoot or just sit and watch me
do it. I want to give her a good experience.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
There's too many unknowns here, like has she practiced, has
she put in the time, does she want to? Does
she want to? Has she been exposed to it at
all yet?

Speaker 3 (39:30):
I what hunt?

Speaker 2 (39:31):
I'm assuming deer, but I don't know. I'm assuming it's
a deer from in my opinion, like you see a
lot of pictures of five six year old kids like
holding the buck up. In my opinion, it's a little
too early simply because they don't really know what they're doing.

(39:51):
They like don't understand it yet. It's not that you
can't set them up with a rifle that'll work and
stuff like that. So I would probably do the shooting
and see how she reacts if she hasn't had any
exposure to it yet.

Speaker 6 (40:09):
Jordan, Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. And you know,
if you get something that's plenty of excitement for us, sure.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
And walk walk through the skin and in the gut
and all like all that stuff tends to like as
long as you don't be like this is going to
be a little gross, like don't do any of that,
Just like do it, and they're probably going to be fascinated.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
But yeah, Jackson asks, do you think the same arguments
against crossbows aka arrow guns, according to Rody, should be
applied to the use of TSS turkey loads and long
range rifles. Never used a crossbow, but I've always thought
that the hate was odd. I agree.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
I don't get the hate. What's he talking about turkey loads?

Speaker 4 (40:51):
Yeah, like the super No, Like there's.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Like no way. They're just like like you're arguing against
being more effective at killing turkeys, Like I don't. I
don't agree with that, and I don't think there's like
any possible way you could.

Speaker 4 (41:06):
Like turn back the clock, turn back the clock.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
And the long range rifles, it's like like I don't
see how you could even come up with an enforceable regulation.

Speaker 5 (41:17):
Yeah, I mean, the only thing, the only thing that
I'm familiar with is the Idaho restriction on you can't
have a rifle heavier than sixteen pounds. I had no idea,
and I do have a rifle that what doesn't mean
that Idaho right restriction?

Speaker 4 (41:34):
Oh yeah, but no, I should really own rifle.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
But I agree, like the arguments like against crossbows, like
I just don't get it. Like everybody's like, oh, this
sky's falling, all the deer are going to get killed. Like,
why you can go hunt elk with a crossbow as
far as I know in Wyoming during archery season and
like there hasn't been like any change there's and there's
still plenty of white tails where crossbows are eagle.

Speaker 8 (42:00):
Like.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
I don't get the.

Speaker 6 (42:01):
Hate, but whatever.

Speaker 5 (42:03):
Some some bow hunters, I'd rather that they have a crossbow,
sure for the sake of the animals.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yes, yeah, I know there's people other people here at
Meteor that probably wouldn't agree.

Speaker 4 (42:15):
With the cross both.

Speaker 5 (42:16):
I started hunting with a crossbow because I didn't have
like an archery background. My parents didn't hunt, but I was.
They were encouraging and you could go out and get
a crossbow and you knew how to site it in
and yeah we're drilling deer at you know, fifty yards
and super effective.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
Yeah what do you think?

Speaker 6 (42:37):
Yeah, I mean, I agree, it's you know, fears of
all the deer being gone definitely overblown. I think if
you've spent you know, hours and hours trying to shoot
a compound bow accurately and then someone comes in with
the crossbow, I I do understand that, but you could
say the same.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
You could say this like the trad bow guys could
say the same exact thing, like those pound guys. It's
so easy. They got sites and all. Like it's just
a never ending cascade of arguments method of take arguments
that end up just being horseshit.

Speaker 6 (43:09):
As far as far as I'm concerned, Yeah, yeah, I
think the the whatever species population that should be the
first concern. Yeah, you know, and if that's not a concern,
it's maybe not worth getting two worked up about.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
There you go anymore fail.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
I mean, we've had a lot of it. Let's do
one more than save the rest for the end of
the show, and then any additional one. Since the publishing
team is here, when is meat Eater going to come
out with a book made for babies?

Speaker 2 (43:34):
I don't I don't think you're gonna see that. Never
say never. Maybe Jordan will write one. Oh you're still
having babies?

Speaker 6 (43:43):
We have a one and a two year old, man.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yeah, yeah, I'm like way past that point.

Speaker 8 (43:50):
Man.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
I don't even remember what it was like for my kids.

Speaker 4 (43:52):
To be babies.

Speaker 5 (43:54):
And and I'll just put out there that we know
what books were writing until till we die.

Speaker 4 (44:01):
At this point.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
So yeah, not something i'd count on, right. All right,
we're all done with those film.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Well unless you want to keep going, but we can.
We've got the end of this time, is it. We're
running a little long.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
So let's move on to our next interview. All right, everybody.
Our next guest is Tyler Freele, who is a writer
for Outdoor Life and he hosts his own podcast called
Tundra Talk. And if you didn't catch Tyler on the
Meat Eater podcast, we had him on AK I don't
know a year like this morning season I think yeah,

(44:37):
episode five oh six, you can you can check it out.
And if you're not familiar with his work, just like
Jordan Siller's here, he has a wealth of knowledge about
firearms and rifle cartridges in particular, and that's mostly what
we're gonna chat about with him today. Tyler, you on
the line, buddy, Yeah, I think so great. Thanks for

(45:00):
joining us from up and up in Fairbanks, Alaska.

Speaker 8 (45:05):
I'm in I'm in Wyoming right now.

Speaker 4 (45:06):
Oh man, what do you hunt?

Speaker 7 (45:10):
What do you.

Speaker 8 (45:12):
I shot a nice antelope yesterday.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
Great, I'm about to do that in a week or
so before we get into shooting. Great, big animals with
teeny little rifle cartes. How'd your moose hunt go?

Speaker 8 (45:23):
Uh, it was pretty disappointing this year.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
That's funny because I heard the same from from other people.
It was tough hunt this year up there.

Speaker 8 (45:33):
Yeah, you know, I don't people like to blame it
on a lot of things. We we spent fourteen days hunting,
and the first ten days are kind of in the
prime time, and where we hunt, we have to call them.
We're just in this swop that you can't there's a
couple of spots we can see.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
But you hunt out of a elevated stand, don't you.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (45:51):
We we got a big tripod so you can get
up over the brush. Otherwise you just just can't see anything. Yeah,
And uh, the first ten days basically, you know, we hunt,
you know, five six hours in the morning and five
six hours in the evening usually, and every time we
went and called, we heard multiple bulls. They just would
not they just would not come.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
So, as in Alaskan who hunts like like that, getting
that moose every year is I'm assuming, kind of important. So, like,
how's your winter meat supply looking? And what are you
going to do to make up for not getting a bull.

Speaker 8 (46:28):
Well, I'm I think I'm sitting okay for now, we
do depend on it, but I like having a little
bit of a surplus just the way. You know, I
usually killed a bowl every year, and so we at
least the the size of my children. Now we aren't
consuming the whole thing every year. Oh yeah, we got
We've got a fair bit of moose. And then I've
got about three to four hundred pounds of black bear meat.

(46:52):
There you go, easier that, you know, I make into
various Yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Guys really get after those bears.

Speaker 5 (46:59):
Man.

Speaker 8 (47:00):
Yeah, I I I don't know what I love. I
I love just kill bears, like I'm a.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Well, it sounds like you'll make it through the winter
without starving. What what I really wanted to have you
on today to talk about is is I feel like
you've got like a very realistic take on the effect
the effectiveness of what many hunters, not all, but a
fair amount of hunters considered to be like undersized, underpowered

(47:33):
rifle cartridges for big game animals. Like I've kind of
always found the hate from like the Magnum, the Magnum
crowd for like the six or five creed more in
particular to be frankly kind of stupid. I've killed a
pile of deering out with six or five creed more

(47:54):
and I have nothing but good things to say about
it's it's effectiveness. What you know, a lot of white
tail and antelope hunters that they aren't strangers to use
in smaller rifle cartridges. But you know, you've taken it
a step further and proven that these smaller cartridges are

(48:14):
capable of like cleanly killing everything from from bears to moose. So, like,
talk us through how you got to that point, Like
how and why you became kind of like whatever you
want to call a small cartridge evangelist.

Speaker 8 (48:28):
Yeah, and whether whether it's by my own choice or
not to to that's I guess, I guess where I'm at.

Speaker 7 (48:35):
I I grew up.

Speaker 8 (48:36):
I grew up in southern Colorado for the most part,
and you know, it was a lot of twenty five
ought six stuff. But even after I moved to Alaska,
you know, I I started out with a thirty hot
six I'd bought and killed just about everything with it,
and then I quickly got really into sheep hunting and
a lot of twenty five ought six So I just

(48:56):
started shooting everything with that, and uh, you know, family
over over many years of hunting up there. You know,
my uncle always swore that the two forty three Winchester
is one of the best black bear guns, and it
just killed piles and piles of black bears with it,
and it was just kind of something that I just
took as a matter of fact, you know, kill a
moose with my twenty five ought six or you know

(49:17):
whatever I was using, and you know, in the six
or five creed More is kind of its own thing.
I was shooting competitively across the course student service rifle
when that was introduced, and I kind of thought that
sounds like it'd be a good cheap cartridge. And right,
a couple of years later, when the first rifle, the
first hunting rifle was public was released in it by Ruger.

(49:40):
I got one and shot a sheep with it and
with a match bullet, and that's cool shots and blacktail
deer and kind of moved on. And it was you know,
once this six' Five creedmore got, popular you, know then
there was this kind of vitriol and responsive hate to,
it WHICH i understand a lot of. It that a
lot of the annoyance because there are you, know, know

(50:00):
quite have been quite a few fairly ignorant opinions on you,
know saying that it can do things it can't do
right or shouldn't really be used. FOR i mean that's
kind of WHERE i got to Where i'm. At and,
then you, know over the last you, know we've all
seen over the last few, years just the advancement in
some of these smaller caliber you, know heavy for heavy

(50:21):
for caliber projectiles that are super efficient buck the wind really.
Well and So i've started kind of getting further and
further And i'm not afraid IF i If i'm do
my researching and convinced something will, work, Okay i'm not
afraid to try. It. Right so, far the results have
been like really really pleasing and and since, starting you,

(50:43):
know since working full time for outdoor, LIFE i, mean
MY i, SHOOT i shoot a ridiculous, amount and it's
just kind of just solidified a lot of points THAT
i think a lot of, times you, know we focus
on things like cartridge when when there are a lot
more important things that are going to contribute to our.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
Success one THING i wanted to ask, you, Like i'm
kind of curious how you feel like when you're using
say a six five creed more even smaller cartridge and
you're shooting like larger game animals maybe not like white
tails or you, know antelope or something like. That like

(51:23):
how big of a role do you feel like bullet
selection is playing like to be effective and and and
like has like advancement and bullet technology like really made
it possible for these, newer smaller caliber cartridges to play
a role in big game. Hunting, YEAH i think.

Speaker 8 (51:44):
It plays a. ROLE i think it's kind of raised
THE i think it's kind of raised the bar over you,
know the capability overall has. Increased they've always been effective
in some. WAYS i mean even in the early nineteen,
hundreds you, Know Frank Frank glazer was killing moose with
a two two swift and claimed it was the killed
everything you, know with just these super crappy forty eight green.

(52:05):
Bullets and SO i think that that bullet manufacturer has
bullet technology has really contributed to. That and also it's
it's made it easier to, hit you, know it's made
it easier to shoot. Accurately, yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
And, yeah we're past the days of like round Nose
remington core locks that.

Speaker 8 (52:29):
Everybody, Yeah and one you, know one thing like the
heavier for caliber bullets are so much. LONGER i DON'T
i don't play into sectional density too, much but you
know you get a much longer core of lead even
in these expanding bullets that that you'll get better penetration than,
say you, know an older or like a larger caliber

(52:51):
bullet of the same weight that's all. Shorter and that's
just one little. Factor and try to get too far
in the weeds on.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Sure, yeah we want to keep bit. Simple do you
guys have any any questions For?

Speaker 4 (53:03):
Tyler, YEAH i guess.

Speaker 5 (53:07):
You're shooting primarily match bullets or real frangible.

Speaker 4 (53:11):
Bullets, uh these Times i've been.

Speaker 8 (53:15):
Shoot i've been shooting more particularly like the The hornet
to YELD m. Bullets BUT i, mean, honest, like IF
i had to just, pick you, know one of my
favorite bullets, overall it's that YELD, x which is it's
it's not quite AS i and even saying frangible AS
i don't know that THAT'S i wouldn't say that that's
a really really accurate but it is a more rigidly,

(53:37):
constructed constructed. Bullet heavier jacket and there's a locking ring
in the jacket that they are going to tend to
hold together a little, better but you still get really
good rapid expansion and and. Performance SO i MEAN i
would say that that that style of bullet is probably my. Favorite.

Speaker 4 (53:54):
Yeah, still, YEAH i always Get i'm always. CONFUSED i
GUESS i don't.

Speaker 5 (53:59):
Know it strikes me as sort of strange that people
talk so much about cartridges and then they don't talk
about bullets and bullet. Construction, yeah because the only thing
when you're killing an animal that the question is like
what work that bullet does on that animal's? Tissue and
that's like what is the bullet made out? Of how
fast does it hit? It and does it hit it
where you want to hit it? Right and like none
of that is really you can do, It like depending

(54:23):
on whatever the head stamp, is you can do a.
Lot you can do a lot of different things and
end up with a lot of different wounds on an.
Animal but the bullet is, really, like to my, mind
the most important part of the.

Speaker 8 (54:34):
Equation, yeah AND i THINK i think you hit the
nail on the. HEAD i, mean that's we are kind
of you, know as a whole a lot of hunters
tend to make whether it's just the way we're brought
up in. It you, know we think cartridge, power kinetic,
energy where you know what your bullet construction and what's
your impact velocity going to, be you, know because there

(54:57):
are people that have done stuff that's you, know kind
of stupid with the six to five creed. More but
if you if you stay within a reasonable impact velocity,
range you, know where you could still shoot really well
and hit what you need. To they like it's it
shouldn't surprise anyone that it. Works, right you poke a
couple holes.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Through their, lungs they're going to die pretty. Quick, jordan
you got anything For?

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Tyler?

Speaker 6 (55:18):
YEAH i guess one of the things you hear, from you,
know the folks who want to use the more Powerful
magnum cartridges is you, KNOW i want to dump as
much energy into the animal as, possible maybe induce hydrostatic.
Shock so it just kind of falls down right.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
There what do you what?

Speaker 6 (55:34):
Is where do you stand on that sort of?

Speaker 8 (55:37):
ARGUMENT i would say that it's it's kind of a
misconception or not like a poor understanding of a you,
know what you should expect when you shoot an animal
and you, know just the capabilities or or like terminal ballistics,
itself because animals react totally. Differently And i've heard this
and whether it's framed IS i want more margin for?

(55:59):
Error but, well what does? That what does that really?
Mean and you Know i've heard, people you, know because
talking about shoot even shooting. Moose it's, well if they
soak this, up then this other cartridge isn't going to.
Work well that's just a poor understanding of what we
should expect from the animal because there's a variety of
reactions and the only thing you can really control is.

(56:21):
Putting you, know using a bullet's going to put a you,
know an acquate size hole through that thing's vitals and
placing it, accurately and the animal is going to. Die
it might it might drop in its you. Know the
ANTELOPE i shot yesterday folded like a lawn. Chair and
THEN i watched another one with a bullet that was
did some you know more damage to, it shot perfectly
and it didn't fall over for fifteen or twenty, seconds,

(56:42):
yeah you, know and and both were both were perfect.
Shots you, know it's just the. Result results will, vary
and you, know a lot of times we we, have you,
know a spectacular result or what we interpret is that
and we don't you, know it's it's a small sample
size that kind of falls within a wide range of.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Possibilities all, right let's, uh let's speaking to. Results if
any of you are still doubting like What tyler is
saying about the capabilities of some of these these smaller bore,
CARTRIDGES i want you to check out a video that
he made last year when he killed you, know In,

(57:21):
alaska you come bull moose is probably like sixteen pounds
with it was with a twenty two Arc, Tyler is that?

Speaker 3 (57:28):
Right?

Speaker 8 (57:29):
Yeah, yeah and yep eighty Eight and all right.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
Enough nerd Out. Randall before you chime in to like
talk trash about how this plays, OUT i want you
to first think about. THIS i killed An alaska bull
moose last year with a three hundred win mag and
it took three good hits to put that bull. Down

(57:56):
so like keep that in mind as you're watching what
this this. Video, phil you can go ahead and roll
roll the tape, Here, Okay.

Speaker 3 (58:04):
I'm ready whenever if you got to clear, shot oh.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
A lot of, brush you don't want to do it.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
He's.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
Done it sounds like my boy's hunting.

Speaker 5 (58:25):
Squirrels he's down or, no he's standing there.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
Now like this this is kind of What i'm talking,
About like before you chime in talking, trash he's getting
woozy and there he. Goes so no matter what you
or me, Say, tyler, like there's gonna be some grumpy

(59:05):
haters that would be like you had to shoot them three.
Times it took forever for him to tip. Over but
like with a big bull, moose that's not unusual with
a with a, great big caliber because it's a huge
animal and it just takes them a long time to bleed, out,
Right so So i've got to believe that like part

(59:26):
of the advantage in the situation you were just in
is that you were able to like bear like stay
on target and like get real quick accurate follow up
shots because you're just like not dealing with. Recoil, right, yeah,
No and you, know and that was that was a
gas gun and the first.

Speaker 8 (59:45):
Shot and in the funny thing is like, say if
if you shoot something more than once with a small,
cartridge you know it was it wasn't enough. Gun but
if you shoot them more than once with a big.
Cartridge they're, tough, right you, Know like the first shot
at the first shot was perfectly through both, lungs and
that you, know it may it's only it's all. Speculation
he may have gone another fifty, yards, right you, know

(01:00:07):
but just based on as one of the REASONS i
chose to do that is Because i've quite a bit
of experience with how moose, die you, know the situations
that we're shooting him in, there and, felt you, know
obviously confident enough to try, it and, uh you, know
and and actually getting the the second shot where he.
Turned it hit him unfortunately in the hind, quarter but

(01:00:29):
you know all you, know making limit lemonade out of.
Lemons it was pretty imp like that bullet went through
ten inches of meat and then she completely shattered the
femur and was ended up, somewhere ended up somewhere in the.
Guts but the first and third shot were both both
through the, lungs and, yeah it was.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Impressive. Man all, right we're we're we're gonna have to
to move on to our next, Segment, tyler but thanks
for joining. Us stay in. Touch it's like probably almost
winter up there in Fair. Banks i'd imagine it's getting.
Close SO i have a great fall and winner up
up there and we'll talk to, you talk to you another.

Speaker 8 (01:01:08):
Time that sounds.

Speaker 6 (01:01:10):
Great all, right thanks a, Lot Thanks, Tyler, yeah thank.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
You, okay our next, section next. Segment, again if you didn't,
realize it's white tail week here At Meat, Eater and
since everyone loves just kicking back and talking, hunting shooting
the breeze about, hunting which is SOMETHING i think we
should do more of on this, show and so so
does the HONEST i think we're gonna have a little

(01:01:33):
chat about what our dream white tail hunt With beat would. Be, so,
boys do you got, like do you already have like
a bucket list white tail hunting mind or is this
something that you had to like really stop and think.

Speaker 4 (01:01:49):
ABOUT i, MEAN i.

Speaker 6 (01:01:53):
Feel Like I'm i'm still trying to figure it out
In East texas a little. Bit BUT i would love
to go do a western white tail. HUNT i grew
up In virginia and now In East. Texas We west
is big. Man you got to pick a, Spot, well
what would you recommend for The? Montana if you like white,
tails there you. Go, Yeah i'd love to do. That

(01:02:15):
just getting out of the tree. Stand you, know it's it's.

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
It's what you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Got there's plenty of opportunity for that, HEREAH i, Mean
wyoming's got some good whitetail. Hunting colorado like has some
giant white tail box but they're most they're almost all
in the eastern half of the, state and it's almost
all private land right, Right like if you want to
do a public land, hunt it'd be hard for me
to pick somewhere other Than. Montana, yeah, YEAH i mean

(01:02:40):
that that just sounds great getting to see that, landscape walk,
around do a rifle.

Speaker 6 (01:02:45):
Hunt it'd be a lot of.

Speaker 4 (01:02:47):
FUN i had to think about this a little.

Speaker 5 (01:02:50):
BIT i don't necessarily know that their bucket list bucket list.
HUNT a bucket list hunt for me would be like
going to the most exclusive white tail property that has
the biggest bucks and shooting. It but the one Hunt
i've always wanted to do just been fascinated, by is
uh doing like a North woods.

Speaker 4 (01:03:10):
Tracking in the, snow like like like In.

Speaker 5 (01:03:12):
Maine you know you see some of, Those just LIKE
i just think that's that would be sort of the,
coolest most mind expanding the.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
Atonics and, like oh, yeah it super. COOL i think
like low deer densities like tracking a.

Speaker 5 (01:03:27):
Buck, yeah wear a wool, hat carry a lever.

Speaker 4 (01:03:29):
Gun, yep, yeah, yep very.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
Cool, YEAH i like that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Idea mine would be something like it's like totally out
of my my comfort zone and like hunting. STYLE i would,
like this is SOMETHING i would like mentally have a
tough time, with But i'd still want to do. It
which is uh one of Those saskatchewan hunts where you're

(01:03:53):
sitting in a blind and it's like minus ten degrees
but you're hunting during the, rut and like you're hunting
for these like three hundred plus pound white, Tails like
they'll have like one hundred and fifty inch rack and
it looks small because the deer just so. GIANT i
think that would be a super cool. Experience it would

(01:04:14):
like be, miserable but it would be cool.

Speaker 4 (01:04:16):
Too.

Speaker 5 (01:04:17):
Yeah, NO i think one of the cool things about
white tails is there's just so many different.

Speaker 4 (01:04:21):
Ways, yeah you can do, it that's, yeah like pick a,
Spot stans.

Speaker 5 (01:04:25):
Drives i've also been really intriguing WHENEVER i see an
image of a white tail deer in a canoe.

Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
Gives me a little something in my.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
Brain, yeah definitely, definitely a water based hunt would be real. Cool, Okay,
Phil let's let's jump back into the. Chat is everyone
talking about white tails or guns or.

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
What there's a lot of gun talk during during The
Tyler real. Conversation not a lot of, questions though there's.
There you, KNOW i love this chat because they just
talk amongst themselves and share info and opinions and they're
all very kind about. It you guys. Rock but we
do have a lot a lot of questions. Still this
is From harrison and he, says question for the, crew
do do you use a packable game sled for deer and?

(01:05:06):
Elk if, so which one do you? Recommend he's right
rifle elk hunting this year and wants to use.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Honey you should ask, That, Like i'm gonna be trying
one out this. Year Hopefully i'll get the opportunity to
try out a packable. Sled i've used sleds in the,
past mostly for, elk but like the ice fishing sled
type things like where you shoot it then go back
to get the sled and then bring it out and

(01:05:33):
use it to pack the animal out the. Quarters out
of whether we had to do that with my kids
elk last, Year So i'm, Like i'm definitely interested in
the roll up sleds or packable.

Speaker 4 (01:05:43):
Sleds.

Speaker 5 (01:05:44):
Yeah i've For Sydney's. Bison we used like a pelican,
sled like a big ice fishing. Sled i've used an
Orange it's like a burlier kids. Sled, yeah and the
roll up ones are like, no like an actual like like, yeah, yeah,

(01:06:05):
yeah and that has BEEN i had one miserable experience with.

Speaker 4 (01:06:10):
It and one, experience man is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
Like when you're running that kind of, sled like the
snow condition's got to be just right for it to.

Speaker 4 (01:06:18):
Work.

Speaker 5 (01:06:19):
WELL i feel like if you if you count on
packing it out in a, sled you're kind of setting
yourself up For like it's a nice thing to have
if the conditions are, right but like.

Speaker 4 (01:06:31):
There's there's something that's just.

Speaker 5 (01:06:33):
Really straightforward ABOUT i will put this on my back
and carry it right right because because OFTENTIMES i feel
like the sled can be way more work than just
carrying it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
Out, yeah and certain snow, conditions for, SURE i.

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
Agree good luck to, You.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
Harrison imagine you're not using a sledge too, much.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
Is or.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
Snow i've never heard of.

Speaker 4 (01:06:53):
THIS i do LIKE i do like using for like
a winter backpack.

Speaker 5 (01:06:57):
Hunt i'll pull a sled behind, Me AND i do
like if you just if you're putting like thirty pounds
in it that you're not going to have in your,
backpack that's that's.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
Nice but, yeah AND i think there are situations where it.
Doesn't even with some of these packable, sleds you could
probably pull it off without. Snow in the right like,
landscape you could still use a sled where the slide slide.

Speaker 4 (01:07:22):
It, yeah so hopefully that answers the.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
Question this one's very funny to, me AND i don't
know if it means. Anything we can just move on
if it. Doesn't rashad, says last WEEK i did an
expensive fishing.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
Charter was there cheap fishing?

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
Charters that's a good. Point we limited out and the
captain told me to leave one of our. FISH i
thought he was, joking but he took one out of my.
Bag never discussed, beforehand thoughts that's not.

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
Cool, YEAH i mean it's not that he should Have
Captain price should have said something. Advanced but like if
you're walking out of there with just like A i
don't know what they're fishing for what the limit. Was you,
KNOW i don't got a problem with leaving the guy
a fish necessarily if it was like done in a

(01:08:07):
rude way where like give me one of.

Speaker 5 (01:08:09):
Those things OR i, MEAN i think like it comes
down to if you really if it was a, question,
yeah and he's, Like i'd appreciate a.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
Fish you're not stepping off my.

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
YEAH i MEAN i had, people.

Speaker 5 (01:08:22):
Had people give me some of their fish if they
didn't want to take you, home and BUT i didn't
ask people for.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
It there's also situations where the captain's going to fish
and give you his, fish right, Right, SO i mean
again LIKE i don't know the details.

Speaker 4 (01:08:39):
HERE i don't like.

Speaker 3 (01:08:40):
It thanks for shot, Great, jordan Says. Phil if you
don't bring up The randall's di y chili dogs at
the football, game it will be a. TRAVESTY i told.
So this is about a new Real randall posted On
instagram where one of the new reel he brought a
zip lock bag full of. CHILI i don't know you, Guys,

(01:09:01):
okay if you have not seen, this just go To Randall's.
Instagram it is it is obscene behavior From.

Speaker 4 (01:09:06):
Randall it's.

Speaker 5 (01:09:07):
MISSING i was really hoping BECAUSE i looked up all
the rags on getting stuff in. THERE i was kind
of THINKING i was gonna have to stash, it you,
know like.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
A like keep it warm in your, rocket bring it
into the.

Speaker 5 (01:09:19):
MOVIE i feel like a gatory bottle of liquor tucked
into your, pants like we used to do at The bengals.
Games but, no if you have food that you want
to bring, in it's totally, fine and it abides by
the NFL's bag. Policy you just fit it in a
gallon sized. Baggie and SO i was really hoping THAT
i would have a confrontation and THEN i could pull
out my phone Where i'd screenshoted the rules and SAID

(01:09:42):
i know my.

Speaker 4 (01:09:42):
Rights but that didn't. Happen the.

Speaker 5 (01:09:45):
Infiltration was actually very anti, climatic But i'm glad you enjoyed.

Speaker 4 (01:09:50):
It, NONETHELESS i enjoyed. IT i tickled myself with.

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
That colin's wondering what piece of first like year is
the crew's favorite for cold Late midwestern elite season archery.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
Hunts you got a guy From texas who hunts when
it's never cold and, rarely got two other guys who
don't hunt cold late season archery. HUNTS i don't like
sitting still AND i don't hunt from tree stands too,
much BUT i would imagine like going with a bib

(01:10:22):
system is the way.

Speaker 4 (01:10:23):
To go for that. SITUATION I i got to look
up the name of this.

Speaker 5 (01:10:28):
Jacket, yeah as a bad uh insulated bibs as a bad,
person and some great.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
Big warm jacket that you can still drop bow.

Speaker 4 (01:10:38):
With, yeah there's a Fleece jesus is.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
Embarrassing they just didn't pick the right uh like white
tail experts for this.

Speaker 5 (01:10:48):
Show, Randall, NO i, KNOW i know there's a fleece
jacket that's got like a like a windbreaker player in,
it AND i can't find it r at the. Moment
but that thing is incredibly and yeah it's, fleece so
it's very, quiet like it's shockingly. Warm it's probably one
of my favorite jackets that just.

Speaker 2 (01:11:06):
Wear go On First light's website and just go to
like the white tail section and they'll have like cold weather.
Gear you'll find some good stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:11:15):
There.

Speaker 4 (01:11:16):
Yep, Sorry i'm bad at this, Selling.

Speaker 3 (01:11:18):
Cody this IS i guess, general just traveling with meat
tips and things to keep in mind for getting my
access deer cape and meat home From. Hawaii humble. Brag
BUT i guess if you guys have any sort of
tips about flying With i've.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
Not flown with a, cape but like you're probably gonna
want to like get it frozen and keep it. Frozen
that's a good. Question would you salt a cape before traveling.

Speaker 4 (01:11:43):
With it TO? I, POSSIBLY i don't have a kind
of experienced.

Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
Phil you're just picking really, bad like difficult questions for us.
Today the meat's, easy freeze it and keep it. COLD
i would think the same thing for the. Cape and
there might be like call attacks at irmis and they'll
tell you like if you want to assault it or.

Speaker 4 (01:12:04):
Whatever, YEAH i don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:12:05):
That WHEN i flew back From alaska with my, BEAR
i don't know that we salted it and you couldn't
freeze it because they had to check. It, yeah well
you froze it like a thaw and then we threw
it in the freezer again at the.

Speaker 3 (01:12:19):
Hotel but, Yeah, brodie it's either these questions or the
ones about video games AND d AND. D i'm trying
to spare you from the.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
Questions JUST i feel like we're like just not like
these people are going to be disappointed with our.

Speaker 3 (01:12:31):
Answers, well it sounds like a you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
Problem oh let's see, here you're picking.

Speaker 3 (01:12:36):
Them oh, yeah some. Brad i'm late late in, life
first time hunter at thirty. Five i've listened and watched
you guys for years and read a bunch of huge
part of me wants to test myself and go alone
versus going with anyone. Else go.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
Alone, yeah, like you will learn so much by hunting.
Alone you might you might fail where you otherwise might
succeed if you had someone who knows more than. You but,
like go hunt. Alone that's All i'm gonna.

Speaker 5 (01:13:04):
Say it depends on what you're. DOING i, think like
if you're doing if you're doing a wilderness type hunt
you have to.

Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
Or.

Speaker 5 (01:13:17):
ANYTHING i guess like it depends on how you do
being by yourself doing.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
Something it could be tough in an entire, day for,
sure if you're.

Speaker 5 (01:13:25):
Going to struggle without someone and not be able to
keep your head in the. Game, uh you, know find
a buddy or find a. Mentor but if you're if
you're you know yourself and you know that you can
handle that sort of, thing go for.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
It, Yeah LIKE i, MEAN i don't know if he's
saying go alone for the first. First it does say
late in my FIRST.

Speaker 3 (01:13:49):
I think the implication is that it would be his
first time going.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
Out, oh THEN i retract my, answer go with someone
else the first couple of, times but don't be afraid
to go out hunt by.

Speaker 5 (01:14:00):
Yourself the chalice. Jacket there you, go the chalice. Jacket
to sort of clean up one of our earlier. Misses
the feel like we're back on.

Speaker 3 (01:14:10):
Track jrp, Fellow bob cratchit over. Here i'd give you
the Secret Bob cratch a, handshake but you're you're not
in the room with. Sick you want to do one?

Speaker 2 (01:14:20):
More one?

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
More, OKAY i think we've. Talked we've talked about stuff
like this. Before chester's not, here But i'll ask it
anyways From jerr Maybe. Jerry here's an etiquette question for.
Y'all do you get a you get a deer on
private land you were given permission to? Hunt how much
meat would be appropriate to give the landowner as a thank?

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
YOU i try to clear that up before the hunt
and just, say, look IF i get, one do you want?

Speaker 3 (01:14:41):
Some and go from.

Speaker 6 (01:14:43):
THERE i Made tomali's Venison Tomaly's, yeah bring us up like.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
Prepared that's a great. IDEA i think you, know it's
going to depend on the, person but a lot of
times they may not even want Any.

Speaker 4 (01:14:58):
Yeah, yeah it's good to asking ahead of. Time, yeah, Cool,
phil anything?

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
ELSE i, mean we can do, more but let's move.
On i'm about TO i GOT i got a frog
in my.

Speaker 4 (01:15:12):
Throat sounds.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
Good i'm gonna try and get through.

Speaker 4 (01:15:13):
This do you want me to do?

Speaker 8 (01:15:15):
This?

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
Yeah you can let her.

Speaker 5 (01:15:17):
Rip hey, Everyone in case you haven't heard, This December
Meat eater is doing a Big christmas live tour through
six cities in The. Southeast you can get all the
info on locations and venues on our. Website but here's the.
Catch tickets are going. Fast in, Fact, Faydeville, arkansas has
already sold. Out so if you want to catch a
fun evening With Steve, Yannis Clay, randall and some very special,

(01:15:41):
guests you better buy your tickets. ASAP i Forgot Brent
he's gonna be there, too And Brent reeves. Everybody uh,
yeah those tickets are going. Fast fadville is sold. OUT i,
think like, overall a majority of, Tickets like if you
look at the collective body of tickets a majority or go,
on so don't wait too. Long it's nice to get

(01:16:03):
Some christmas shopping out of the. Way so if you've
got a friend a family member who would appreciate a
fun evening of laughs and outdoor themed, entertainment chop on
to the meeteater dot com slash, TOUR i.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
Believe, yep and go to our events. Page they'll be
easy to, find.

Speaker 4 (01:16:21):
Yep so get on.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
That and one last. Thing next week's show is going
to be a pre recorded episode Because randal And phil
are going out of town to play video games In.
Nashville but you guys aren't gonna believe. This Steven ranella
is going to be On Radio, live WHICH i don't

(01:16:44):
know how long it's Been phil since he's done.

Speaker 3 (01:16:46):
That a few months for.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
Sure, yeah so you don't want to miss.

Speaker 5 (01:16:50):
It and.

Speaker 4 (01:16:52):
That's.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
It, man that's it for today's. Show thanks for listening
and tune in next.

Speaker 4 (01:16:56):
Week thanks, Everybody, yeah thank, you