November 9, 2023 • 23 mins
Tony and Emmy award-winning actress Christine Ebersole (Bob Hearts Abishola, Grey Gardens) joins Dana for the first episode of The Memory Whisperer! Dana and Christine discuss Christine’s experience caring for her mother after her Alzheimer’s diagnosis and share their tips for interacting with friends and loved ones battling the disease. Christine reflects on the stronger sense of patience she gained caring for her mom and shares how she learned to love two mothers: the one who raised her and the one she cared for later in life.
Do you have a question for Dana? Email her directly at thememorywhisperer@gmail.com or visit www.thememorywhisperer.com for additional resources.
The Memory Whisperer is written and produced by Dana Territo, with help from editor Blake Langlinais. Additional production support from Ryan Martz and Julia Weaver.
Special Thanks to Michael Andrews, a person with dementia, and Innovations in Dementia, CIC for our theme music and to Xdesign for branding and graphics.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
It started with Peggy, someone with Alzheimer's disease who never
knew my name and who I companioned at her nursing
home residence for twenty two years. Her influence in my
life and the values I received from growing up with
grandparents leaving in our home are the guiding forces and
my love and advocacy for the Alzheimer's population. I'm a
(00:29):
newspaper columnist for The Advocate in batonyge Louisiana, and the
author of What My Grandchildren Taught Me About Alzheimer's Disease.
And now I'm launching a podcast. Hi, you're listening to
Dana Turrito The Memory Whisper. Join me in these podcasts
as we engage in thoughtful conversations about Alzheimer's disease and
(00:50):
other dementias. Today, I am so thrilled and excited to
have as my very first guest on my first podcast,
The Memory Whisper. Film television and stage actress Christine Eversol.
Her performance in the Broadway plays Forty Second Street and
Gray Gardens have earned her Tony nominations, and she received
(01:12):
an Emmy nod for her work as Maxi McDermott in
the soap opera One Life to Live, but since twenty nineteen,
she has played the role of Dottie Wheeler, the mother
of Billy Cardell's character Bob, in the sitcom Bob Heart's Abashola.
So thank you so much for being here today, Christine.
You've had a story career. What's your favorite genre? Theater, film,
(01:35):
television or singing? I love it all.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
I think probably sinking is the closest to my heart.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Well, I read that years ago you entertained at Arita
Hayworth gala to benefit the Alzheimer's Association and you performed
The Way We Were. That song is all about memories
and so apropos for the over six million people who
currently have Alzheimer's disease or related dementias in our country.
(02:06):
So you're an Alzheimer's Association celebrity champion. I just wanted
to know if you could tell us a little bit
about what spawned your dedication to that cause and to
the organization.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Well, I don't know really. I was invited by my
dear friend who just recently passed, Carlton Varney to perform
at the Alzheimer's benefit, and my mother had dementia, So
there's obviously an experience that's close to my heart.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Well, tell me about your journey with your mother. Were
you her main caregiver or did y'all have you were?
How was that journey and how long was it for you?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Well, she started to get dementia after my father passed
away on her eightieth birthday. They were together for sixty years,
and I think the trauma of that triggered it. And
she came to live with our family, my husband and
myself and my three children. She lived with us for
(03:08):
ten years, actually, wow, And we were hoping that she
could live with us until she passed.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
But she.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Wasn't able to climb the stairs and she needed twenty
four hour care and I wasn't able to do that
give that for her. And the house wasn't you appointed
in a way that she could live on the first
floor and you know, have bathroom facilities and all that
kind of stuff. So thankfully, because of my union status,
(03:40):
she was able to get into the Actors' Home in Englewood,
New Jersey, and she lived there for five years. And
that was probably the hardest thing I ever had to do.
But it was a great facility and I was able
to visit her all the time. And my husband did
a lot of caring for her as well, because I was,
(04:01):
you know, out of town a lot, you know, and
so he really really took the lion's share of it.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
What's a favorite memory of you and your mother?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Well, she's you know, she's a she was a very
good mother, and she was everybody at the facility, you know,
when she was at the actress home, they loved her
because she wasn't mean or crabby or any of that stuff.
You know, she was always just very upbeat and funny.
(04:35):
But you know, I think I don't know what a
favorite memory of that is. I guess it's just you know,
being with her and recalling you know. I think that
as you as you get older and as the dementia
kind of takes hold, there's a memory that it is
like the memory becomes a sort of smaller and smaller
(04:57):
and smaller, and it just really goes mostly to being
in the past. There's a long term memory thing where
she what I would say, Mom, how many children do
you have? And then she'd say seven, which was the
number of children in her family that she was born to.
So she would name all the children, but they were
(05:17):
her brothers and sisters, you know kind of things. So
she was remembering all of that, and you know, we
would talk about her She grew up on a farm
in Pennsylvania, so we would talk about, you know, what
chores that she did, gathering eggs from the henhouse and
churning the butter on the weekends. And she just kept
getting younger and younger and younger. That's when I one time,
(05:38):
I said, Mom, how old are you? And she's like,
you know, who wants to know? I said, I said,
well how old are you? She goes, well, I have
to think about that. I said, well, how old do
you feel? She said twenty without hesitation.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
And so I said twenty reality.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, that was her reality. And I said, so what
what are you like? What are you up to? You know?
And so it just kind of went back to, you know,
her brothers and sisters and what they were doing and
what was happening on the farm. But she still remembered
that she had when she was saying that she felt
(06:19):
like she was twenty, she did remember that her her
mother passed when she was fifteen, so she remembered that,
and then she remembered that her brother who was killed
in World War Two.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
She remembered that, Yeah, those are kind of episodic memories
that we carry with us.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yes, But other than that, it was basically life on
the farm. So I would always just sort of try
to engage her where she was at.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, made her her reality.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, exactly exactly. So it wasn't like, mom, you know,
your whole family's gone. You know. It was like I remember,
like when my uncle her her baby brother, when her
brother passed, my uncle Sam. There were certain family members
that were like, you got to tell her. I said,
I'm not telling her. Why would I tell her? Because
(07:13):
she has dementia and she she doesn't remember, so if
I reminded her, then she would get anxiety and get
upset and then forget about it and just be reminded.
Every time she was reminded of it, she would it
would give her so much anxiety. So I would just
say to her, I say, Mom, what's uncle Sam doing
right now? She goes, well, what, what what month is it?
(07:37):
You know, it's like, well it's July. Well he's you know,
tending the crops because he was a farmer too, And
I said, well, mom, let's you know, we should give
him a call. Sometime like, let's do that tomorrow, you know,
let's call him, you know, so it would just it
would keep her in this place that was where her
reality was not interrupted with reality, right, and she could
(08:01):
be you know, happy and life was beautiful.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
You know. I find education is one of the key
components and understanding the disease and meandering the journey. Were
resources available to you and your family during that time
or did you know how to meander through that disease
journey with your mom? You know, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I just I think I've sort of approached it on
a spiritual level, really just sort of on a God level,
that this is what was happening to her, and rather
than rail against it, we just tried to go with it.
What were the challenges, you know, things like, you know,
(08:48):
I have to say to her, mom, I'm going to
take a picture. We're going to take a picture, but
you can't smile with your teeth because I said, you
just got one tooth left. You got to snaggletooth left.
And I said, because you threw your teeth out, And
she said, I did you know, so we'd make a
(09:09):
joke about it.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah, yeah, Well you have to have laughter, you said,
it's not You approached it with a spiritual level. What
were your blessings?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Oh, just time, you know, that she was living with us,
and that I was able to care for her, and
then I would, you know, tuck her in bed at
night almost like you know, almost like my baby kind
of thing.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
The roles reversed.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, it was like a full circle kind of thing.
And yet she was still my mother, you know. Yeah.
God really had blessed us so much by being able
to care for her and have her live with us
for as you know, for ten years, as many years
as she did. She went into the nursing home at
ninety five and lived to be one hundred.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Oh wow, amazing. She must have been very physically, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Very very sturdy, you know. But always when we would
walk up the stairs, you know, the three flights, I say, Mom,
you're like an old goat, and she said, call me
a goat. I said, well that's a good thing. Boats
can climb up in the mountains, the side of mountains,
you know. So she always liked those animal references, you know,
(10:19):
because there was a big part of her life. Yeah,
but she was very very sturdy, I mean, and you know,
was growing up. She was amazing, you know, just always working,
you know, in the home. But it was like always
like aching and cooking and cleaning and just making you know,
(10:40):
sewing and doing all that.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
How many siblings do you have?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
There was four children, She had four children, and I
was I am the youngest.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Did you get help from them or other resources to
help you with the caregiving?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Well, she lived with my brother Tony for a few
years and then and then she came to live with
us for the ten years before she went into the
facility because my father when when my father passed away,
my brother Tony had moved back from Idaho to care
for them, and because you know, my my parents sold
(11:17):
their house and so he kind of set them up
in an apartment. And then six months later my father
passed away, and so my mother went to live with
Tony and his family. And I think that was for
a few years. I'm not sure, but it was for
a few years. And then you know, I said that
(11:38):
they were looking for a nursing home for my mom
to go into in Illinois, and I said, no, we
want her to come and live with us. So that's
what happened. We she came, she came to New Jersey
so that she could be with us because I I
(11:59):
didn't I wanted I wanted her to be with me.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, what a blessing. Have you ever read the poem
Two Mothers Remembered by joe Anne Duncanson.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
She writes about how she had two mothers, one that
she knew growing up and then one she cared for
at that time. It's a really pretty point. It reminds
me of your what you're saying about your mom. Were
there any stressful times you had during caregiver for yourself?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Well, it was. It was very hard because I was
so busy traveling, and you know, it was just I
was dealing with the guilt of that, you know, and
but you know, I you know, I had to provide
for my family. So it was just the way the
cards were dealt, you know. And uh, you know it's
(12:50):
like I would come back, you know, so I could
give my mother a shower and bathe her, you know,
before I had to take off again for some other place.
It was crazy. So that was very It was stressful,
but I wasn't. I didn't be grudget, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
You didn't resent it, No, not at all.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Because I just I just felt bad that I wasn't there,
you know, twenty four to seven to be able to
help her. And that's why, thankfully Bill, my husband, was there.
But he you know, there were certain things that you know,
we're out of his category that you know, it was
just better if I could bathe her than him, you
(13:27):
know what I mean. It's that kind of a thing.
So right, although we did. We had a claw foot
bathtub up on the third floor, and my mother got
in the tub, but she couldn't get out of the top.
It was pretty it was pretty comical, you know, with
the two of us trying to get my mother out
(13:49):
of the bathtub, you know, stuff like that. But yeah,
it was mostly the time that was frustrating because as
I learned that with dementia, you gain more patience in
a way, you know, like things like you don't say
(14:10):
things like mom, we just talked about that, you know, right,
which a lot of people do, I think, you know,
you just know, it's Groundhog's day, you know, like every
you're going over the same thing, you know, and if
you could like to look at it from a new angle,
you know.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
You have a wonderful attitude about that experience with your mom.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Well, but you see, I, like I said, you know,
I really had a nice mother, you know, so I'm grateful.
So it's not it's not like there was a lot
of baggage, you.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Know, you know what I mean. Sure, so, and I
think that, you know, just my just.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Deep appreciation for her, and not only that, but being
a mother myself made me appreciate her even more, you know,
because the things that you don't you know, you take
for granted or whatever it is like when you become
a mother, like, oh, this isn't easy, you know what
I mean, I get it.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Now, I get it now, Yeah, get it exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So. And I always just appreciated that she was so upbeat,
you know. That was such a lesson in that, you know,
and that you could always find humor because she was
always willing to experience, like a joke at her expense
kind of thing, you know what I mean, she could
laugh at herself kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Right. I hope those are happy tears. I don't want
to make you sad.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
They are tears of gratitude.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah. Yeah, And I'm sure she had much gratitude for
the care you gave her during those years. Even though
you know you most often they can't express it to us.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah, she, I always knew that we loved each other.
I mean there was never any doubt.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Right, What a gift, What a gift and a blessing.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
It really is an amazing blessing. Not everybody can say.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
That, No, No, everybody's journey is different.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
You know, in the United States, more than ten million
women are living with Alzheimer's, are caring for someone with Alzheimer's,
and women in their sixties are more than twice as
likely to develop Alzheimer's over the span of their lives,
more so than developing breast cancer. So with those harrowing statistics,
you know, what do you think of the future of
(16:44):
Alzheimer's disease with regards to women. Are you concerned about
your risk that your mother had or no like that,
We're good, No you can't. Yeah, no I don't.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I don't. I don't know what God has planned for me.
But I'm just trying to follow along for what I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Just like your mom lived in a present, Yes she did.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
She really did.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
So, I mean I think that there's so many harrowing
statistics in the world. You know, if you really focus
on them and really look at them, it's just like,
what's the point? You know? So I think for me,
I have to lean on the everlasting arms. I mean
(17:37):
honestly that that's really what that That's the only thing
that really can get me through is that God has
has uh has a plan and we don't know what
that is. But it's like we just need to follow
along and don't stray too far, don't stay You.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Know, if there was one pearl of wisdom that you
could leave for our listeners, what would that be.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
That, through through through Alzheimer's and dementia, if we can
tune in to the essence of who we are and
who they who we are? In other words, in other words, this,
(18:31):
this Alzheimer's does not define you. No, there is this
thing going on, but the spirit and the soul force
behind it is the same. It stays the same. Are
you're crying now?
Speaker 1 (18:53):
But isn't it true? It's true, It's truly true.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
So in other words, you can't you can't look at
that and go, oh, you know, what am I going
to do with this?
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Now?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
It's like, Okay, it's happening. God has allowed it, and
so how do we tune in to the heart, to
the spirit, to the soul force, to the part that
needs to be the part that commands us to love,
that's commanding us to love. You know none other words,
(19:25):
You're not.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
A victim, thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Nobody's a victim. Yeah, you're not a victim. It's just
it's it's what's happening. We don't understand it, and yet
it's happening. So get behind it and focus on the
commandment to love one another. And even when you can't,
(19:50):
even when there's times when you can't get the love back,
it's still commanded. It's still what we must do.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Wow, you couldn't have said it. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Thank you Anne.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Before I go today, i'd like to share the poem
two mothers remembered that I had mentioned to Christine during
this podcast. The poem was written by Joanne snow Duncanson,
a newspaper columnist, poet and author. When I happened upon
this poem while doing research for my book, I knew
I had to include the poem, and I quickly endeavored
to get permission from Joanne. Her daughter, Heidi, however, responded
(20:30):
back to me with permission to use the poem. But
also she told me that her mother at the time
was living in a nursing home and was the third
generation female on her maternal side to develop dementia. Sadly,
Joanne passed away in twenty twenty one, but we have
this beloved poem from her to cherish. I give you
(20:52):
two mothers remembered. I had two mothers, two mothers, I claim,
two different people yet with the same name, two separate women,
diverse by design, But I love them both because they
were mine. The first was a mother who carried me here,
gave birth, and nurtured and launched my career. She was
(21:15):
the one whose features I bear, complete with the facial
expressions I wear. She gave me her love, which follows
me yet along with the examples in life that she set.
As I got older, she somehow younger grew and we'd laughed,
just as mothers and daughters should do. But then came
the time that our mind clouded so and I sensed
(21:39):
that the mother I knew would soon go so quickly
she changed and turned into the other, a stranger who
dressed in the clothes of my mother. Oh, she looked
the same, at least at arm's length. But now she
was the child and I was her strength. We'd come
full circle three, my mother the first, the second, and me.
(22:04):
And if my own children should come to a day
when a new mother comes and the old goes away,
I'd ask nothing that I didn't do. Love both of
your mothers as both have loved you. That's it for
(22:25):
us today. Thank you for listening. The Memory whisper is
a production of iHeartRadio and the Seneca Women Podcast Network.
It's produced by me Dana Tiredo in honor of Peggy
and all those affected by Alzheimer's disease. Special thanks to
my audio editor, Blake Langona, and to Michael Andrews, a
person with dementia, who gave me permission to use his
(22:48):
beautiful flute music for this podcast. For more information or
to reach me directly, head over to my website, The
Memory Whisperer dot com. And for those struggling with the diagnosis,
remember my motto, the more you know, the better it'll go. Blessings,
It started with Peggy, someone with Alzheimer's disease who never
knew my name and who I companioned at her nursing
home residence for twenty two years. Her influence in my
life and the values I received from growing up with
grandparents leaving in our home are the guiding forces and
my love and advocacy for the Alzheimer's population. I'm a
(00:29):
newspaper columnist for The Advocate in batonyge Louisiana, and the
author of What My Grandchildren Taught Me About Alzheimer's Disease.
And now I'm launching a podcast. Hi, you're listening to
Dana Turrito The Memory Whisper. Join me in these podcasts
as we engage in thoughtful conversations about Alzheimer's disease and
(00:50):
other dementias. Today, I am so thrilled and excited to
have as my very first guest on my first podcast,
The Memory Whisper. Film television and stage actress Christine Eversol.
Her performance in the Broadway plays Forty Second Street and
Gray Gardens have earned her Tony nominations, and she received
(01:12):
an Emmy nod for her work as Maxi McDermott in
the soap opera One Life to Live, but since twenty nineteen,
she has played the role of Dottie Wheeler, the mother
of Billy Cardell's character Bob, in the sitcom Bob Heart's Abashola.
So thank you so much for being here today, Christine.
You've had a story career. What's your favorite genre? Theater, film,
(01:35):
television or singing? I love it all.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
I think probably sinking is the closest to my heart.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Well, I read that years ago you entertained at Arita
Hayworth gala to benefit the Alzheimer's Association and you performed
The Way We Were. That song is all about memories
and so apropos for the over six million people who
currently have Alzheimer's disease or related dementias in our country.
(02:06):
So you're an Alzheimer's Association celebrity champion. I just wanted
to know if you could tell us a little bit
about what spawned your dedication to that cause and to
the organization.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Well, I don't know really. I was invited by my
dear friend who just recently passed, Carlton Varney to perform
at the Alzheimer's benefit, and my mother had dementia, So
there's obviously an experience that's close to my heart.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Well, tell me about your journey with your mother. Were
you her main caregiver or did y'all have you were?
How was that journey and how long was it for you?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Well, she started to get dementia after my father passed
away on her eightieth birthday. They were together for sixty years,
and I think the trauma of that triggered it. And
she came to live with our family, my husband and
myself and my three children. She lived with us for
(03:08):
ten years, actually, wow, And we were hoping that she
could live with us until she passed.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
But she.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Wasn't able to climb the stairs and she needed twenty
four hour care and I wasn't able to do that
give that for her. And the house wasn't you appointed
in a way that she could live on the first
floor and you know, have bathroom facilities and all that
kind of stuff. So thankfully, because of my union status,
(03:40):
she was able to get into the Actors' Home in Englewood,
New Jersey, and she lived there for five years. And
that was probably the hardest thing I ever had to do.
But it was a great facility and I was able
to visit her all the time. And my husband did
a lot of caring for her as well, because I was,
(04:01):
you know, out of town a lot, you know, and
so he really really took the lion's share of it.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
What's a favorite memory of you and your mother?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Well, she's you know, she's a she was a very
good mother, and she was everybody at the facility, you know,
when she was at the actress home, they loved her
because she wasn't mean or crabby or any of that stuff.
You know, she was always just very upbeat and funny.
(04:35):
But you know, I think I don't know what a
favorite memory of that is. I guess it's just you know,
being with her and recalling you know. I think that
as you as you get older and as the dementia
kind of takes hold, there's a memory that it is
like the memory becomes a sort of smaller and smaller
(04:57):
and smaller, and it just really goes mostly to being
in the past. There's a long term memory thing where
she what I would say, Mom, how many children do
you have? And then she'd say seven, which was the
number of children in her family that she was born to.
So she would name all the children, but they were
(05:17):
her brothers and sisters, you know kind of things. So
she was remembering all of that, and you know, we
would talk about her She grew up on a farm
in Pennsylvania, so we would talk about, you know, what
chores that she did, gathering eggs from the henhouse and
churning the butter on the weekends. And she just kept
getting younger and younger and younger. That's when I one time,
(05:38):
I said, Mom, how old are you? And she's like,
you know, who wants to know? I said, I said,
well how old are you? She goes, well, I have
to think about that. I said, well, how old do
you feel? She said twenty without hesitation.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
And so I said twenty reality.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, that was her reality. And I said, so what
what are you like? What are you up to? You know?
And so it just kind of went back to, you know,
her brothers and sisters and what they were doing and
what was happening on the farm. But she still remembered
that she had when she was saying that she felt
(06:19):
like she was twenty, she did remember that her her
mother passed when she was fifteen, so she remembered that,
and then she remembered that her brother who was killed
in World War Two.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
She remembered that, Yeah, those are kind of episodic memories
that we carry with us.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yes, But other than that, it was basically life on
the farm. So I would always just sort of try
to engage her where she was at.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, made her her reality.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, exactly exactly. So it wasn't like, mom, you know,
your whole family's gone. You know. It was like I remember,
like when my uncle her her baby brother, when her
brother passed, my uncle Sam. There were certain family members
that were like, you got to tell her. I said,
I'm not telling her. Why would I tell her? Because
(07:13):
she has dementia and she she doesn't remember, so if
I reminded her, then she would get anxiety and get
upset and then forget about it and just be reminded.
Every time she was reminded of it, she would it
would give her so much anxiety. So I would just
say to her, I say, Mom, what's uncle Sam doing
right now? She goes, well, what, what what month is it?
(07:37):
You know, it's like, well it's July. Well he's you know,
tending the crops because he was a farmer too, And
I said, well, mom, let's you know, we should give
him a call. Sometime like, let's do that tomorrow, you know,
let's call him, you know, so it would just it
would keep her in this place that was where her
reality was not interrupted with reality, right, and she could
(08:01):
be you know, happy and life was beautiful.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
You know. I find education is one of the key
components and understanding the disease and meandering the journey. Were
resources available to you and your family during that time
or did you know how to meander through that disease
journey with your mom? You know, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I just I think I've sort of approached it on
a spiritual level, really just sort of on a God level,
that this is what was happening to her, and rather
than rail against it, we just tried to go with it.
What were the challenges, you know, things like, you know,
(08:48):
I have to say to her, mom, I'm going to
take a picture. We're going to take a picture, but
you can't smile with your teeth because I said, you
just got one tooth left. You got to snaggletooth left.
And I said, because you threw your teeth out, And
she said, I did you know, so we'd make a
(09:09):
joke about it.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah, yeah, Well you have to have laughter, you said,
it's not You approached it with a spiritual level. What
were your blessings?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Oh, just time, you know, that she was living with us,
and that I was able to care for her, and
then I would, you know, tuck her in bed at
night almost like you know, almost like my baby kind
of thing.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
The roles reversed.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, it was like a full circle kind of thing.
And yet she was still my mother, you know. Yeah.
God really had blessed us so much by being able
to care for her and have her live with us
for as you know, for ten years, as many years
as she did. She went into the nursing home at
ninety five and lived to be one hundred.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Oh wow, amazing. She must have been very physically, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Very very sturdy, you know. But always when we would
walk up the stairs, you know, the three flights, I say, Mom,
you're like an old goat, and she said, call me
a goat. I said, well that's a good thing. Boats
can climb up in the mountains, the side of mountains,
you know. So she always liked those animal references, you know,
(10:19):
because there was a big part of her life. Yeah,
but she was very very sturdy, I mean, and you know,
was growing up. She was amazing, you know, just always working,
you know, in the home. But it was like always
like aching and cooking and cleaning and just making you know,
(10:40):
sewing and doing all that.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
How many siblings do you have?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
There was four children, She had four children, and I
was I am the youngest.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Did you get help from them or other resources to
help you with the caregiving?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Well, she lived with my brother Tony for a few
years and then and then she came to live with
us for the ten years before she went into the
facility because my father when when my father passed away,
my brother Tony had moved back from Idaho to care
for them, and because you know, my my parents sold
(11:17):
their house and so he kind of set them up
in an apartment. And then six months later my father
passed away, and so my mother went to live with
Tony and his family. And I think that was for
a few years. I'm not sure, but it was for
a few years. And then you know, I said that
(11:38):
they were looking for a nursing home for my mom
to go into in Illinois, and I said, no, we
want her to come and live with us. So that's
what happened. We she came, she came to New Jersey
so that she could be with us because I I
(11:59):
didn't I wanted I wanted her to be with me.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, what a blessing. Have you ever read the poem
Two Mothers Remembered by joe Anne Duncanson.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
She writes about how she had two mothers, one that
she knew growing up and then one she cared for
at that time. It's a really pretty point. It reminds
me of your what you're saying about your mom. Were
there any stressful times you had during caregiver for yourself?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Well, it was. It was very hard because I was
so busy traveling, and you know, it was just I
was dealing with the guilt of that, you know, and
but you know, I you know, I had to provide
for my family. So it was just the way the
cards were dealt, you know. And uh, you know it's
(12:50):
like I would come back, you know, so I could
give my mother a shower and bathe her, you know,
before I had to take off again for some other place.
It was crazy. So that was very It was stressful,
but I wasn't. I didn't be grudget, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
You didn't resent it, No, not at all.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Because I just I just felt bad that I wasn't there,
you know, twenty four to seven to be able to
help her. And that's why, thankfully Bill, my husband, was there.
But he you know, there were certain things that you know,
we're out of his category that you know, it was
just better if I could bathe her than him, you
(13:27):
know what I mean. It's that kind of a thing.
So right, although we did. We had a claw foot
bathtub up on the third floor, and my mother got
in the tub, but she couldn't get out of the top.
It was pretty it was pretty comical, you know, with
the two of us trying to get my mother out
(13:49):
of the bathtub, you know, stuff like that. But yeah,
it was mostly the time that was frustrating because as
I learned that with dementia, you gain more patience in
a way, you know, like things like you don't say
(14:10):
things like mom, we just talked about that, you know, right,
which a lot of people do, I think, you know,
you just know, it's Groundhog's day, you know, like every
you're going over the same thing, you know, and if
you could like to look at it from a new angle,
you know.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
You have a wonderful attitude about that experience with your mom.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Well, but you see, I, like I said, you know,
I really had a nice mother, you know, so I'm grateful.
So it's not it's not like there was a lot
of baggage, you.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Know, you know what I mean. Sure, so, and I
think that, you know, just my just.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Deep appreciation for her, and not only that, but being
a mother myself made me appreciate her even more, you know,
because the things that you don't you know, you take
for granted or whatever it is like when you become
a mother, like, oh, this isn't easy, you know what
I mean, I get it.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Now, I get it now, Yeah, get it exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So. And I always just appreciated that she was so upbeat,
you know. That was such a lesson in that, you know,
and that you could always find humor because she was
always willing to experience, like a joke at her expense
kind of thing, you know what I mean, she could
laugh at herself kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Right. I hope those are happy tears. I don't want
to make you sad.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
They are tears of gratitude.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah. Yeah, And I'm sure she had much gratitude for
the care you gave her during those years. Even though
you know you most often they can't express it to us.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah, she, I always knew that we loved each other.
I mean there was never any doubt.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Right, What a gift, What a gift and a blessing.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
It really is an amazing blessing. Not everybody can say.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
That, No, No, everybody's journey is different.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
You know, in the United States, more than ten million
women are living with Alzheimer's, are caring for someone with Alzheimer's,
and women in their sixties are more than twice as
likely to develop Alzheimer's over the span of their lives,
more so than developing breast cancer. So with those harrowing statistics,
you know, what do you think of the future of
(16:44):
Alzheimer's disease with regards to women. Are you concerned about
your risk that your mother had or no like that,
We're good, No you can't. Yeah, no I don't.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I don't. I don't know what God has planned for me.
But I'm just trying to follow along for what I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Just like your mom lived in a present, Yes she did.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
She really did.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
So, I mean I think that there's so many harrowing
statistics in the world. You know, if you really focus
on them and really look at them, it's just like,
what's the point? You know? So I think for me,
I have to lean on the everlasting arms. I mean
(17:37):
honestly that that's really what that That's the only thing
that really can get me through is that God has
has uh has a plan and we don't know what
that is. But it's like we just need to follow
along and don't stray too far, don't stay You.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Know, if there was one pearl of wisdom that you
could leave for our listeners, what would that be.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
That, through through through Alzheimer's and dementia, if we can
tune in to the essence of who we are and
who they who we are? In other words, in other words, this,
(18:31):
this Alzheimer's does not define you. No, there is this
thing going on, but the spirit and the soul force
behind it is the same. It stays the same. Are
you're crying now?
Speaker 1 (18:53):
But isn't it true? It's true, It's truly true.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
So in other words, you can't you can't look at
that and go, oh, you know, what am I going
to do with this?
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Now?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
It's like, Okay, it's happening. God has allowed it, and
so how do we tune in to the heart, to
the spirit, to the soul force, to the part that
needs to be the part that commands us to love,
that's commanding us to love. You know none other words,
(19:25):
You're not.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
A victim, thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Nobody's a victim. Yeah, you're not a victim. It's just
it's it's what's happening. We don't understand it, and yet
it's happening. So get behind it and focus on the
commandment to love one another. And even when you can't,
(19:50):
even when there's times when you can't get the love back,
it's still commanded. It's still what we must do.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Wow, you couldn't have said it. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Thank you Anne.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Before I go today, i'd like to share the poem
two mothers remembered that I had mentioned to Christine during
this podcast. The poem was written by Joanne snow Duncanson,
a newspaper columnist, poet and author. When I happened upon
this poem while doing research for my book, I knew
I had to include the poem, and I quickly endeavored
to get permission from Joanne. Her daughter, Heidi, however, responded
(20:30):
back to me with permission to use the poem. But
also she told me that her mother at the time
was living in a nursing home and was the third
generation female on her maternal side to develop dementia. Sadly,
Joanne passed away in twenty twenty one, but we have
this beloved poem from her to cherish. I give you
(20:52):
two mothers remembered. I had two mothers, two mothers, I claim,
two different people yet with the same name, two separate women,
diverse by design, But I love them both because they
were mine. The first was a mother who carried me here,
gave birth, and nurtured and launched my career. She was
(21:15):
the one whose features I bear, complete with the facial
expressions I wear. She gave me her love, which follows
me yet along with the examples in life that she set.
As I got older, she somehow younger grew and we'd laughed,
just as mothers and daughters should do. But then came
the time that our mind clouded so and I sensed
(21:39):
that the mother I knew would soon go so quickly
she changed and turned into the other, a stranger who
dressed in the clothes of my mother. Oh, she looked
the same, at least at arm's length. But now she
was the child and I was her strength. We'd come
full circle three, my mother the first, the second, and me.
(22:04):
And if my own children should come to a day
when a new mother comes and the old goes away,
I'd ask nothing that I didn't do. Love both of
your mothers as both have loved you. That's it for
(22:25):
us today. Thank you for listening. The Memory whisper is
a production of iHeartRadio and the Seneca Women Podcast Network.
It's produced by me Dana Tiredo in honor of Peggy
and all those affected by Alzheimer's disease. Special thanks to
my audio editor, Blake Langona, and to Michael Andrews, a
person with dementia, who gave me permission to use his
(22:48):
beautiful flute music for this podcast. For more information or
to reach me directly, head over to my website, The
Memory Whisperer dot com. And for those struggling with the diagnosis,
remember my motto, the more you know, the better it'll go. Blessings,
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