June 14, 2024 • 50 mins
On this episode of The Middle coming to you from the Palace Theater in Waterbury, Connecticut to ask you: how can we take the politics out of climate change? We're joined by former EPA Administrator Gina McCarthy and NBC Connecticut Chief Meteorologist Ryan Hanrahan. The Middle's house DJ Tolliver joins along with his band, plus questions from our live audience. #ClimateChange #Biden #Trump #Politics
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the middle.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'm Jeremy Hobson at the Palace Theater in Waterbury, Connecticut,
along with Tolliver and his band.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey Tolliver, Jeremy, We're a huge theater.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
We made it.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
We finally hang on, we go not we did it.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Now, Tolliver, we are talking about climate change this hour, which,
depending on how you identify politically, is either hugely important
and needs to be tackled at once or not. According
to Pew research, fifty four percent of US adults described
climate change as a major threat to the country's well being.
Among Democrats that's nearly eighty percent, while among Republicans it's
(00:37):
only twenty five percent. And when it comes to politicians,
there are people like the Colorado Governor Jared Poulus, who
last year signed a law to cut greenhouse gas emissions
entirely by the year twenty fifty. And then there's Florida
Governor Ron DeSantis who recently scrubbed the phrase climate change
entirely from a law that was passed in Florida.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
So why has.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Climate change gotten so polarizing? And how do we take
the politics out of climate change and instead focus on
solutions that is our question this hour.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It's a big question, Tolliver massive. All right, let's meet
our panel.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Gina McCarthy is a former administrator for the Environmental Protection
Agency as well as the first White House National Climate
Advisor under President Obama.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Gena McCarthy, Welcome to the.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Middle Thank you, Jeremy. Great to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And Ryan Hanrahan is the chief meteorologist for NBC Connecticut.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Ryan, it is great to have you with us as well.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Thanks for having me, Jeremy.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
So, Gina McCarthy, how much are politics getting in the
way of major action on climate change in this country?
Speaker 5 (01:44):
Well, I think there's a lot of attempt for folks
to get in the way who may not understand the science.
But honestly, we're making absolutely incredible progress.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
You think, so, oh, I know, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I mean, the US did past the largest climate change
bill in the history of the world in the last
couple of years.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
And it did, and it's making a huge difference in
the history of the world.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
You know.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Honestly, we have the Inflation Reduction Act, which has already
generated more than three hundred and fifty two billion dollars
of investment. That's five hundred and twenty four projects. That's
two hundred and fifty two thousand clean energy jobs, and
(02:31):
we're just getting started. The Inflation Reduction Act is a
ten year bill that is purposefully designed to make the
shift from fossil fuels to clean energy, make sure that
clean energy is winning. And that is the secret sauce
to actually address in climate change. And I know that
(02:51):
it's in Republican and Democratic states. They may not be
raising the hand going I want all kinds of praise
for this, but they know that this is real money,
real progress. And Texas, of all places, is actually using
more solar energy than it is fossil fuel energy. So
(03:12):
celebrate that we're winning, and we have to win.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I will say I just recently drove across the entire
country and it is amazing, not just Texas with the solar,
but you see more wind mills across the state of
Kansas and a lot of very red states in this
country certainly than you do in the Northeast.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
We call them turbines, just in case you want.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
To, I'm sorry, that's right, turbines.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Ryan.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
From your vantage point covering the weather every day, how
much are things changing here in Connecticut? Do your viewers
feel the effects of climate change on a regular basis.
Speaker 6 (03:48):
Yeah, I mean they feel the effects of climate change
every day, whether or not they realize it. One of
the things that I've realized here have been at NBC
Connecticut for almost twenty years. Climate change used to be
something that didn't really make it into the daily weathercast.
It was more is it going to rain tomorrow? Will
my weekend plans be watched out? That has changed completely
(04:10):
in the last probably ten years or so. If we
don't talk about climate change, we hear from our viewers saying,
why aren't you talking about this more? And when we
started to talk about it, it was the opposite. People
would say, why are you talking about this? This is
you know, you're pushing an agenda on us. And so
just seeing that change in what our viewers are demanding
(04:34):
from us has been incredible. And it's not just in Connecticut,
which is a blue state. I have colleagues all over
the country, whether it's Alabama or Tennessee or Illinois that
are talking about climate change in their daily weathercast.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
What do you think changed.
Speaker 6 (04:50):
I think it's been the run of storms that we
just seem to have over and over and over and
over again, and the.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
More you see it in your community.
Speaker 6 (04:59):
The more it's not this abstract global issue that seems
impossible to tackle. It's man, my grandparents summer cottage is
almost getting washed away, or we've lost power again for
a week from another one of these freak storms, and
so people are seeing it and now they want information.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
One of the reasons I wanted to have you here
is because meteorologists and TV meteorologists are still seen as
very apolitical people. You have to be trusted. Even though
sometimes you get the forecast wrong, you still have to
be trusted by the people, and.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
You are trusted by people.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So have you worried about losing any trust among your
viewers when you do start talking about this storm is
related or is most likely related to climate change.
Speaker 6 (05:43):
Sure, you don't want to alienate your viewers, but at
the same time, you need to be honest with them,
and you can explain to them these are the things
we know about climate change. These are things we don't
necessarily know about climate change.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
And it's not.
Speaker 6 (05:56):
Necessarily that we're advocating for certain policy positions. We're giving
people information. For most people who are watching us on TV,
the weatherman on the morning newscast or the evening newscast
is probably the only scientists they have any rapport with
day to day, and so we are in sort of
a unique position to tackle these sort of challenging subjects,
(06:20):
and we're communicators.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
That's what we do.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
We communicate somewhat difficult subjects about the atmosphere and find
a way like, Okay, how am I going to condense
this into two minutes and thirty seconds and tell someone
how to address their kids for the bus stop tomorrow morning,
or how to make their weekend plan. So we can
do that, and it's something that we work really hard
to do.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Gina McCarthy, you mentioned that there's a lot of progress
that has been made and that in fact, even in
redder parts of America, politicians are supporting.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Some of these goals.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
And yet if you turn on some media, the words
green New Deal are like a three bad words they
could just throw in, and it's like, oh, the Democrats
just want to spend all this money on the Green
New Deal.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
What about that?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
What about the way that this is communicated and how
that fires up certain parts of the populace.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
You know, Jeremy, when I got a call from President Biden.
We had a conversation almost about exactly that issue, how
we could transition to clean energy at a time when
people needed leadership. If you remember the prior administration, everybody
(07:33):
was still had COVID, everybody was still locked up in
their homes, everybody was trying to work if they could remotely.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
It was a terrible time.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
And so the challenge of dealing with climate wasn't to
make that one more burden for them to worry about.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
It was to.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
Frame it in a way that we could make huge progress,
but that every progress we had to make had to
be better for families. It had to benefit them by
lowering their energy costs. It had to reduce the air
pollution that's right now across the world is killing seven
(08:12):
point five million people every single year with premature death.
So we focused on how do we make it relevant
to human beings. So it's more jobs, it's less money
for families, and it's better communities, stronger equity considerations every
(08:34):
step of the way, so that low income communities would
be the big winner in this.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
And that's how it was framed. But it's not talking
about greenhouse gas emissions.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
You mentioned the prior administration the Trump administration. What if
the Trump administration is the next administration, how do you
make it so that this is not an issue where
the Trump administration says, let's reverse all of the things.
But people still want these things. They want the lower
end energy costs, they want a cleaner environment. How do
you make that not an issue that gets switched completely.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
Well, the law is on the books. This is not
just a rule executive. This is congressional action. But the
most important thing to remember is that both red and
blue states, and frankly more red states are grabbing the
money at the Inflation Reduction Act. This is real money
for political constituencies that those governors actually care about in mayors,
(09:32):
they are spending that money.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
I will guarantee you.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
That they will continue to spend that money under any
administration because it benefits them in their constituents. And so
we just have to keep a perspective here. Do I
think it's going to be I have to be very
cautious about not saying anything too rude, But if that
transition is made in the next administration, they'll do everything
(09:59):
they can, I'm sure to undermine this, but you are
going to hear for the winners.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
He is why will they do want to Why will
they do that because of interests, because of you know, money,
because they strongly believe that there should be no action.
Because why do you think they would want to reverse
all of these things?
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Well, history tells us that that was the case, right,
And and you know, I don't think, you know, a
Trump administration is going to value anything that the Biden
administration did. If you're listening to what's what's being said,
it's all about how do we revive fossil fuels, How
(10:40):
do we make fossil fuels the winner? How do we
ignore the damages and the destruction that further ignorance and
in action on climate change is going to bring about?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Ryan, we talked a little bit there about the language
that is used. I noticed that there was some polling
that showed Republican voters, especially young Republican voters, support environmental
protection on the whole, but support drops.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
When the language switches to climate change in the poll.
What do you make of that?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
It just shows how polarized we are. And it's so tribal.
Speaker 6 (11:19):
You know, things that are good ideas on their face
suddenly become toxic. People want to save on their electric bills.
People want to see the air and the water be cleaner.
So when we're talking about these things, if we can
stick to how, like you said, Ginette, how are these
(11:40):
things impacting you and your family and your bills and
your household. Most people don't go home and around the
dinner table talk about the melting ice caps. They do
talk about their homeowner's insurance policy rates. They talk about
how expensive it is to heat their house in the winter.
And we can talk about those things and give people
the INFRA nation they need to be more informed citizens.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Well, stand by because any moment we're going to talk
about how attitudes and the national discourse around climate change
have evolved over the years.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Don't go anywhere you're listening to the middle.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Okay, speaking of climate change, let's make it hot.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Hey hey, hey, but just slide.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Put the funny in.
Speaker 7 (12:25):
Your feet, put the pipe down to coach, jam with
the creed every day, your damn ham sandwich, to beef
chewing on red and some wine and some breef. Feeling
lack of God, don't cancing the meat cut the TV
owner seem to be dancing, but jeeze a big big
boggy and fish with the grease. Baby, I'm trying to
make money. Hush, I'm trying to get paid. I'm trying
(12:46):
to eat lobster.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Can's fool your bathe I'm trying to make money.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
I'm trying to get paid.
Speaker 7 (12:54):
I'm trying to eat Lobsterolae.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Now this is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're
just tuning, in the Middle is a national call in show.
We are focused on elevating voices from the middle geographically, philosophically,
and politically, or maybe you just want to meet in
the middle. This hour, we are not taking calls because
we're at the Palace Theater in Waterbury, Connecticut, asking you
(13:18):
how do we take the politics out of climate change.
I'm joined by former EPA administrator Gena McCarthy and NBC
Connecticut Chief meteorologist Ryan Hanrahan And before we get to
some live audience questions, Gina McCarthy, one thing that I
find very interesting is years ago my journalistic career, many
years ago, just the question of whether the climate was
(13:40):
changing was something that you had to get to both
sides on.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
You don't have to do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
It seems like we have all agreed most of us
have agreed as Americans the climate is changing, and even
that humans are responsible for the climate changing for some
of it.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
And are there lessons to be learned from that in
terms of coming to consensus on solutions.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
We probably ought to toss that to Ryan because it
came from Ryan. It came from scientists who were very clear.
But then it had to you know, scientists are great,
but then have to sort of bring this down to reality.
We were talking about this already, Ryan. You had to
talk to people that this was a risk for them
(14:22):
and their families, in their future, for our kids. You
got to personalize these issues instead of talking about the planet.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
And I think the more we.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
Realized the danger and could explain it in human terms,
then human beings can then begin to realize, especially if
you do something like the Inflation Reduction Act the Bipodisan
Infrastructure Law, that these would be things that would.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Make their lives better.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
That's what government is supposed to be about. That's what
governing has to be about.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Ryan.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I mean, I think people see it with their own eyes.
You see it.
Speaker 6 (14:58):
You know, every is the hottest summer around record pretty much.
You see these hurricanes that are stronger producing more rainfall.
It's incredible the kinds of things that we're seeing. We're
seeing the water temperatures in the Atlantic Ocean right now
as we just started hurricane season. They're typically what you
would see in the end of August and it's the
(15:19):
beginning of June. So no matter what you're looking at,
you keep seeing these things, these record after record after record.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
You know, we mentioned it a little bit before.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
Insurance companies are just dropping, you know, not offering homeless
insurance policies anymore, across vast swaths of the country. It's
not just Florida anymore in California, it's even places like
Iowa that have been hit by a number of these
really powerful thunderstorms.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
And when we try to tell the story about climate change.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
The most effective way to do that is not interviewing
some scientists on zoom who's talking about the temperature increasing
by one point five degrees celsius in the next thirty years.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
That's such an abstraction. No one knows what that means
for them.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
But when you do tell the story about the farmer
who has been dealing with floods for the last three years,
and it's the farm stand down the street where people
can't buy their corn in August and September.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
They remember that and they think about that.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I grew up in Central Illinois and Tornado Alley, and
when I was growing up, it was like April was
the month that there might be a tornado. Now it's
six months out of the years it could be a tornado.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
I mean, we had a couple of winters ago.
Speaker 6 (16:28):
We had a tornado in the Berkshires in Massachusetts in February.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
I mean, these things just didn't happen before.
Speaker 6 (16:34):
Cape Cod in Massachusetts has had a number of tornadoes
in the last ten years.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
They had never had one on record into the last
ten years.
Speaker 6 (16:42):
Because the water is so much warmer, So no matter
where you turn and no matter what community you are,
and across the country, so many of these weather events
and extremes have the fingerprints of climate change all over them.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Do you see Ryan, your viewers these days on the
personal level, starting to go green, to get solar panels,
to buy electric cars, to reduce their water in bigger
ways than they did before, even if it's just for
economic reasons.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I think, and Genie, you can probably talk to this
as well.
Speaker 6 (17:14):
It seems to me that the economics of these things
and the market forces are driving so much of this.
You know, obviously, if you put subsidies on more efficient
HVAC unit or an electric car, that may sort of
tilt the scale in one favor. But you're seeing this
now all the time. People are making these changes. What
(17:34):
I'm interested in is what happens so say there is
a second Trump administration and try to roll back a
lot of the things in the Inflationships, a lot of
the incentives, things in the Inflation Reduction Act. The market
forces may be moving so strongly now where you can't
you know, the horses out of the barn. You know,
I don't know how much you can bring back now
(17:54):
because the cost of batteries is dropping, and that.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
The huge investment manufacturing. Look, the challenge we have is
to convince Red states that their lives will be better
if they pay attention to all of these investment opportunities.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
And it's actually happening.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
More money is going to Red states, and it was
frankly designed that way. One of the reasons it was
a design that way is it's those Red states that
have such incredible challenges that need manufacturing again, they're the
ones that lost everything.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
All those jobs went away.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
You know, there were challenges now, I know politically along
blue and red lines. But in the end, people need
to be able to put food on their table and
know that their kids are going to have a future.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
So they're grabbing this for all its worth.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
Red governance will not allow a rollback that's going to
stop battery manufacturing in their communities. On new auto menu factoring,
it's changed everything.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
You're talking about jobs.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
But also in many cases, if you, for example, go solar,
you might save money on day one versus the electric
bill that you were paying before, just because of all
the incentives on the loan for your panels and just
not paying these ever increasing electric bills.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
I mean, that is the economic incentive, the.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Carrot, the best way to get people to decide that
it's in their interest to it is a loser to.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
Ask for sacrifice right from human beings. I don't care
what you're talking about. If you want them to stand
up and give this and give up, maybe that was
the twenties and thirties, it ain't today, and so it's
all about personal benefits, and I don't I'm not saying
that thinking there's anything wrong with it.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
There isn't. People are struggling all over the country. Give
them something to be hopeful about. Give them good stuff
that they can afford. I mean, it's so excit citing
that that's available now. Look, I'm getting old.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
Who knew would actually have these things available when I
was seventy years old?
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Grab this run with it.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
See the change when people get a sense of hope,
a sense of real opportunity for them and their families.
That's what we need to have. That's what we have
available to us right now.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I think, Jeremy.
Speaker 6 (20:28):
One of the things that I noticed to sort of
piggyback off that one of the most depressing conversations I
had was I do a number of school visits.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
I talk about science and the stem fields.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
I was talking to a group of I think they
were high school sophomores in Connecticut, and the topic came up,
how are we doing, you know, with climate change?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And every single one of them said that they had
no hope that we would fix this.
Speaker 6 (20:53):
And I thought to myself, what a disservice scientists and
politicians have done that we just we painted this as
there's no get out of this.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
We're in trouble. And you know, to hear sixteen year
olds say that, it's like.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Oh, we can't.
Speaker 6 (21:13):
You got to give people some kind of hope and
you have to, you know, otherwise they're not going to
make informed decisions if they think, oh, there's nothing we
can do with sapperhands, right.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
You know, there are so many things that were impossible
to do until they got done. And I know this,
I know what the science says, I know the challenge
that's before us. But if we allow young people to
sit on the sidelines, we will be assured of climate disaster.
So we have to convince young people to get active
(21:43):
and engaged and support them. Explain to them that we
have a world of opportunity ahead of us, but they
are the future and we have to make sure that
they have a place and they feel that they can
make a difference.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Let's go to some audience questions right over here on
this side. Yes, sir, it is David.
Speaker 8 (22:08):
I'm from Hamden, Connecticut and I'm old.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Me too.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Should we hang out.
Speaker 8 (22:16):
A question for Ryan. It's good to hear that you
feel viewers are asking for more information on climate, which
is a good change I do feel though, that we're
still missing the next step, which is to try to
be very specific about why why is this happening? Is
it co two levels? Is it the fossil fuel industry?
(22:36):
And I sense a hesitancy in media to point a
very specific finger there. And I guess the question is
do you feel pressure or does your NBC Connecticut feel
pressure because of sponsorship to stay away from being too specific.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
That's a great question.
Speaker 6 (22:54):
The company that I work for could not be any
more supportive of whilst doing climate change reporting.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
I think they would.
Speaker 6 (23:00):
They probably want me to do more climate change reporting,
but I only have so much time in the course
of a day, so we don't get that.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
We don't get that pushback.
Speaker 6 (23:10):
I think it can be challenging though, in the context
of a two and a half or three minute segment,
you've got to figure out, Okay, how am I going
to distill this in a way that makes sense, something
that's fairly complicated, in a way that people can use,
and information that's useful to them. But I think we
can always do a better job, so there's no pushback.
(23:31):
I do think that when we're having a conversation about
climate change, what's happening. The more local we can make
it the better. If you can meet people where they
are and show them what's happening in their backyard, you're
giving them some of the tools that they need to
be an informed voter.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Can I just add something about this age thing.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
When when I was Deep Commissioner in Connecticut, thank you,
thank you so much, we used to give out climate
awards right an award ceremony, and one time there was
a kid who was I think he was probably eight
years old that went house to house to get signatures
(24:18):
and commitments for the competition. But it ended up people
put solar on their roofs right, And he spent a
whole summer just going around trying to get these commitments,
and he was awarded. And then the other awardee was
somebody who was basically making his nursing home more energy efficient, right,
(24:44):
going around changing light bulbs, insulation, blah blah blah. And
he was about he was at least eighty, if not
ninety years old. And that was the juxtaposition that told
me that climate change is everybody problem, but it's also
everybody's opportunity because this is a generational issue, This is
(25:08):
a multi generational issue.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Let's go to another question over here.
Speaker 9 (25:13):
Hi, I'm David Hill. I live in Middlebury, Connecticut, and
I'm a pulmonologist here in Waterbury, Connecticut. This is a
public health crisis. So climate change is effecting the air
for all of us who breathe. We've just shown that
we can respond to a public health crisis, albeit suboptimally.
But my question is, as we pursue mitigation and adaptation,
(25:38):
how do we make sure we don't leave communities behind,
so minority communities, people of color, who are already disproportionately
affected by pollution. How do we make sure as we
make progress those communities get safer and healthier.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
Yeah, I could not agree with you more that climate
is the ultimate health challenge, right. You know, I think
there are many ways to answer that question, but I
think the most important thing is to continue to recognize
(26:20):
that that climate is a health problem.
Speaker 10 (26:22):
Right.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
It has to be front and center, and I think
there are many ways in which that can be reflected
in decisions that are made. But the equity issue is
is really a driving force in the architecture of the
Inflation Reduction Act and its implementation. If you follow the
(26:44):
decisions that are being made and the basically the way
in which money has to be spent. Will know, you
will realize very quickly that the vast majority of the
money is going to go to low income and minority communities.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
They are the ones that have been devastated.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
They are the ones that have been neglected and actually
not allowed to move forward. And it's and that has
to be reversed. And I think that's exactly what you're
going to be seeing. And I think that is where
the health benefits would be so large if we could
(27:26):
get to those communities. Because you know as well as
I who's burdened by these challenges. It is folks that
have no other option than to live in the in
the shadows of heavy industry with no ability to be
able to move. That's changing, That has to change. That
(27:46):
must always be front and center. We're in the United
States of America. We have lost communities because of our
ignorance and our and frankly, our bigotry. It's time to
turn that around. And there's every opportunity for us to
do that now, every opportunity.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Tell over, you're clapping there.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
No, absolutely.
Speaker 7 (28:13):
I've lived in a lot of communities that were under
freeways on your power plans growing up in Chicago Pilsen,
and so I know we've had a lot of talk
about minorities tonight.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
So I'm glad the folks are engaging with the issue.
I'm very proud and thankful.
Speaker 11 (28:24):
I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Let's get another question before we take a quick break.
Go ahead.
Speaker 12 (28:31):
Hi. My name is Kimton and I live in New Haven, Connecticut.
And last year there was a lawsuit where the young
people of Montana got the right to a safe climate
by calling on the rights that they had in the
Montana Constitution for a healthful environment. And I'm working on
(28:55):
actually getting with the Green Amendment movement to get the
rights to a clean and healthy environment into the Connecticut
state constitution. And there are people working on that in
states across the country. And so I think that that's
a very important part of the young people feeling like
(29:16):
they have a future and that the rights of every
person to have a clean and healthful environment should also
be in the constitution. It should be a fundamental right.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
Thank you, thank you. It's funny how so many other
countries have figured this out.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Right, Well, why do you think that is?
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Why do you think that the US is so different
than so many other countries when it comes to the
politics of climate change.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
You know, the countries I was just running through my head,
the countries that have passed amendments like that. You know,
the United States is a lodge in complex and rich country.
That means you have, you know, you have very differing
(30:05):
politics place to place, and it also means that there
are going to be a lot of folks, like folks
or in the fossil fuel industry that are going to
do everything humanly possible to not put a price on carbon,
which is what we're talking about, and that makes it
extraordinarily challenging. It's not an excuse, but it's more challenging
(30:30):
than in other countries that have a lot more green space,
a lot more that they rely on natural resources much
more heavily. They do not have significant fossil presence, and
it's just different.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
We'll stand by because there's much more ahead, including whether
Gena McCarthy and Ryan Hanner hen think humanity is up
to the task of saving the planet in the next
two years. You're listening to the middle coming to you
from the Palace Theater in Waterbury, Connecticut.
Speaker 7 (31:01):
Hit it you only gonna make me slam my head
against the wall.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Got it feeling crazy? Does everybody know imall?
Speaker 7 (31:12):
Yeah, bring the heat tube, come up to me when
you gotta speak to that time. Got evil, But I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Push a wall to the seat.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
Food baby.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
I know that I'm got it in the bad.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Flags in on.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
This is the Middle.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
I'm Jeremy Hobson at the Palace Theater in Waterbury, Connecticut,
and we're asking you this hour, how do we take
the politics out of climate change. I'm joined by former
EPA administrator Gena McCarthy and NBC Connecticut Chief Meteorologist Ryan
hand Orhan. And before we get back to some more
audience questions, Ryan, I know that you, in addition to
(32:07):
covering the weather here in Connecticut, follow the national news
very closely. Do you find the debate about climate different
at the local and state level than you do at
the national level?
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I think so.
Speaker 6 (32:20):
I think you know, when you're talking at a local level,
people are invested in their communities and they see what's happening,
and they also see what needs to be done.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
At a national level, everything just becomes so polarized.
Speaker 6 (32:33):
And I don't know if we're necessarily talking about solutions
as much as we should be at the national level.
But I do think we have gotten to a point
that we're not arguing really as much anymore about is
climate change happening?
Speaker 3 (32:48):
And are we responsible?
Speaker 6 (32:50):
Now we're getting to a point where we should have
been thirty years ago about all right, what do we
do about it? And I think that's a helpful step forward,
But I worry that we've taken so long to get
to that point where we're just going to make this
entire process way more painful than it needed to be.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Gina McCarthy.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
We look at the debate in this country, we talk
about local and state versus national.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
What about people who.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
In order to say there shouldn't be any action in
the United States on climate change? On dealing with climate change,
say well, we could do something, but India and China
are still going to be polluting like crazy, And why
should we handicap our economy to help the world when
they're not doing it.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
For me, that's a very easy answer is that we're
not handicapping our economy, we're growing it. The clean energy
is the path to the future for the United States
and elsewhere, and I think the challenge is that every
country needs to participate and we all have to work together.
(33:57):
I think that's the biggest challenge that we f is
that we get together, we talk a lot, we set goals,
and then we don't meet them, and so we have
to get real about this in every country. But you know,
I think we'll be doing okay. I think we'll get
through this. I do have a lot more respect for
(34:20):
you know, local and state governments. I think subnational action
is a big deal. It was a big deal when
the prior administration came in.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Who stood up.
Speaker 5 (34:33):
It was governors and states and local communities that refused
to kowtow. And I think if that happens again, you're
going to see it again. So hopefully we'll get an
opportunity to actually move forward after the next election and
to do the work.
Speaker 11 (34:49):
That we have to do.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Let's hear from our audience. Here go ahead.
Speaker 13 (34:55):
Hi, I'm Sarah. I'm from Middlebury, Connecticut, next town over,
and I'm twenty five, So remember of one of the
younger generations, and I want to go back to the
points you've made about working together as well as youth,
because June actually is intergenerational Climate Action month. So I
(35:17):
was wondering if you could speak to the importance and
maybe also progress that has been made by generations working together.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
I'll let either one of you take that.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
I mean, I think the youth are our future.
Speaker 6 (35:35):
You guys have the most to lose and the most
to gain from making the transition to a greener, cleaner economy.
But I also think it's important that you know. I
do think it's great when young people are involved. And
I think one thing that you learn with age is
(35:55):
that you can't let the perfect be the enemy the good,
and you do need to be pragmatic too, And I
think working together through different generations, I think that's something
that your voice is really really important. Just like people
who have been here for a long time and have
been working in the public policy space on climate change,
(36:18):
they have a lot to offer and share as well.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Let me just ask you, do you feel let down
by the previous generations on this issue? I mean, how
hopeless do you feel about the future because of the
actions of other generations?
Speaker 13 (36:33):
Yeah, thank you, I don't feel hopeless. But I know
what I hate to hear is when members of the
older generation take responsibility for the climate crisis we're in.
But then say it's your generation's responsibility to fix it,
and you'll fix it.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Great point, very good point.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Thank you so much for that. Let's go over to
this side.
Speaker 11 (37:01):
Yeah, Hi, thank you very much. Hear me, and thanks
for the great music. My name is Phoebe Godfrey. I'm
a sociology professor at Yukon and I teach on the environment.
I'm actually right now teaching on society and climate change.
I live in Willhelmantick, and I came here specifically because
I found the question so provocative of how do we
get the politics out of climate change? And I want
(37:22):
to challenge you that that's the wrong question. That the
political sphere belongs to the people, right, and it is
the people who are most disenfranchised. And if we go
back into the question you asked of, you know, why
is the United States so challenged in this area? We
have to remember, you know, we are a nation founded
on genocide, We're a nation founded on slavery, and all
(37:44):
of that is still currently denied.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
I mean, it's really hard.
Speaker 11 (37:47):
To teach some of this history in a lot of
our schools, and so climate change denial is just another
one of our denials and even there was research that
denying COVID came off the backs of because we're so
used to denying. And so if we look at our
history and ask ourselves, well, what was the motivation here?
Obviously economics, right, those systems are very profitable and the
(38:10):
destruction of the planet is still incredibly profitable. And so
the question I want to challenge you with is not
how do we get politics out of climate change? How
do we get corporate interest out of the discussion right
and get the people back into it?
Speaker 2 (38:26):
So great, great question, and Gena McCarthy, that is something
I want to ask you about. How much are corporate
interests holding up action on climate change.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
They're doing their best, they as they always have, but
they're not winning the way they used to. I mean,
if you look at the data, you will see that
the fossil fuel interests are really now secondary to the
clean energy interests.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
But that dynamic could change dramatically in the next election.
Speaker 11 (39:01):
And so.
Speaker 5 (39:03):
The you know, the best that I could could say
about about tackling this is that in the last COP
the Conference of the parties, they actually finally said that
we need to transition away from fossil fuels.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
If that's the best we can say. Now we are
in a lot of trouble.
Speaker 11 (39:23):
The problem with a lot of the green energy is
we're still increasing consumption. Our energy use in this country
is going up, our consumption is going up globally, and
so it's still the same model of growth. And until
we deal with growth on a finite planet, I think
we really have to have a reckoning. And we'll have
a reckoning, and unfortunately it'll be the most disenfranchised around
(39:46):
the world who are going to feel that more than
those of us who have created the problem.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
So thank you again.
Speaker 5 (39:52):
Well fossil fuel, you know, the burning of fossil fuels
is the reason why equality is terrible. It's the reason
why we have time a change, It's the reason why
seven and a half million people die every single year unnecessarily.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
And we just have to deal with fossil fuels in
the more direct way we must.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Let me ask you, when you in certain parts of
this country, and I'm thinking of California, you look at
the cars on the road now, like half of them,
it seems, are either hybrid or electric cars. When are
we going to have that situation? Do you think in
Ohio or Kentucky in this country.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
Well, like anything else, you have to have the infrastructure.
You got to have the charging the infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Which is a big part of the bill that was
passed nationally.
Speaker 5 (40:42):
And that's that I think is being built. But you know,
I mean you raise a good point. Part of this
I think looks as looks. People look at it as
a threat to their way of life, which is your point.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
I like my big Ford pickup.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Like I don't want to drive a Tesla cyber try.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
The only thing I can ask people to do is
drive one and then talk to me about I got one.
It's wicked good.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
We've got another young person here, let's hear from you.
Speaker 14 (41:21):
My name's Robbie. I'm from Ashford, Connecticut. And so I
think the red states that are getting money for manufacturing
are more red because of the fact that the after
people lost jobs from like downscaling of manufacturing, politicians jumped
(41:42):
in and said, like, these people are the reason that
you lost your jobs, and we're going to get rid
of them.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
I think poverty has a big deal to do with it,
and I think it is a lack of job opportunity
in states, and it's a fundamental lack of educational systems.
I mean, and so there's a lot of things right
now in our country that need fixing. They're not all
(42:10):
going to be fixed by a climate discussion, that's for sure.
But you will not be able to rebuild the United
States of America unless everybody has access to a good education,
and unless everybody has access to jobs that.
Speaker 4 (42:26):
Are sufficiently paid that you can raise a family. That's
fundamental challenges.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Just before you go, as I continue my poll of
the young, how old are you?
Speaker 1 (42:41):
I'm twelve, twelve years old. Wow, thank you for coming.
That's awesome.
Speaker 4 (42:45):
That's awesome, that's great, really good question.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Are you Are you hopeful about my kids?
Speaker 4 (42:53):
Weren't that smart?
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Are you hopeful about the climate crisis being solved?
Speaker 14 (42:59):
I'm hopeful, very helpful.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
And how do you think it's going to happen.
Speaker 14 (43:04):
I don't think it's going to happen spontaneously. I think
it's going to take a while, but it'll be fixed eventually.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Great, Thank you so much. Let's go to another member
of the audience over here.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
I'm Mary Ellen, and.
Speaker 10 (43:20):
I live in Wolcate, Connecticut, and I remember when I
was like in second and third grade, I had no
idea what the word recycle meant. And look at where
we are now. So I really do believe we have
to give these kids hope. That really bothers me that
you said these teenagers don't have hope. And I got
a challenge for you. Let's start gearing this information to
(43:44):
kids in fun little songs and little play things, but
part of your weather piece once a week or every day.
Teach the kids what's the problem and how can they help?
And I think this is the answer here, Tolliver, I'm challenging.
(44:08):
I got you, So I really do believe that it's
the kids. I mean, you're talking up here, and I'm
really trying to understandable about the politics and all that,
but it's down here that we need to give the hope.
Speaker 4 (44:21):
You know, we have to teach kids what's going wrong
and how they can help.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
You know, Ryan Hannerhan, I remember when I grew up,
there was a show called Captain Planet that we used
to watch. I mean, my generation also grew up with
Earth Day as a thing that you would celebrate every year.
There's probably even more of that now than there was them.
But what do you think of this idea of talking
to really young people, including our very young middle audience,
(44:49):
about climate at a at a young age.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Oh, we've got to do it. And you have to
offer hope and solutions. You can't just make everything seem
be doom or unattainable.
Speaker 6 (45:01):
You can't because that's that's not the way the world works.
And we need an engaged group of young people in
this country to make change. And that's that's how this
is going to be fixed. You remember when you were
in school, remember hearing about the ozone hole? Yeah, well
what happened to the ozone hole?
Speaker 3 (45:21):
We fixed it.
Speaker 6 (45:22):
We got together, countries all around the world came together
and was at the Montreal Protocol was that it was,
and came together and said, hey, this is a problem,
here's a solution.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
Let's do it. And so we we've done this before.
This is a bigger problem, but we can do this too.
Speaker 6 (45:37):
And I think you know, to your point, you've got
to give people hope and you have to explain to them.
You have to be very you know, give them specific
reasons and specific things that hey, climate change is happening,
and here's where you're seeing it in your day to
day life, and here's why why it's an important issue,
you know.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
The Ozone hole, Gina McCarthy was. I remember one of
the points in Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth movie.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
He talked about that.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
But now, to some people in this country, if you
mentioned al Gore, the first thing they'll say is, well,
he flies private planes. Why should we listen to him
about climate change? Which has been said about a lot
of people who are climate activists, and then they do
things that are not good for the environment.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
How do you how do you deal with that in
the politics of this.
Speaker 5 (46:26):
Well, I have to say I don't fly on private planes.
If I had one, I might, you know, I think
we have to be realistic. Honestly, no one should have
to sacrifice everything in their life to actually be an
advocate on climate. You try to use public transportation to
(46:48):
try to do better. I mean, those are all great things.
But I don't judge al Gore by how he travels.
I judge him by his message. I judge him by
his commitment, and I think we all want to be
judged that way. You know, we'll do our best to
try to limit our own cobbon emissions, but honestly, the
(47:10):
big thing is we've got to fix climate change. And
that's not just individuals making change it is it has
to be a systemic and large scale change.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Let's get one more question right over here.
Speaker 15 (47:24):
I'm Virginia from West Hartford. What is the most significant
thing that we as individuals can do to address the
challenges of climate change.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
I'll let you each give a give a give a
short answer to that question.
Speaker 6 (47:39):
Brian Hanrahan, I would say, be an informed voter. It's
probably the number one thing you can do.
Speaker 4 (47:46):
It's a really good answer.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Geena McCarthy, make it personal and talk a lot.
Speaker 7 (47:56):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Okay, Now, I did promise that we were going to
get your thoughts on this one thing finally, which is
the United Nations Climate cheap said this year that humanity
only has two years left to save the world. And
that was back in April. So we're now really in
trouble because it's only a year and ten months. Do
(48:18):
you think humanity can do it?
Speaker 5 (48:20):
Gina McCarthy, I do not know where that time lane
came from. Really, yes, I do think humanity can do.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
It, but you don't think that timeline is realistic.
Speaker 5 (48:30):
I have no idea where you came up with that. Okay,
and it's kind of annoying. To be very honest with you.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
It's not helpful.
Speaker 4 (48:36):
It's so not helpful.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
It's not helpful.
Speaker 6 (48:39):
No, I mean because it's a made up statistic. But
that also that doesn't give people hope. It makes it
seem like it's something you know, we're not going to
change that much in the next eighteen months, So what's
the point.
Speaker 4 (48:52):
Listen. We got to get busy, but that's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Well, I want to thank my guests for our EPA
administrator Gina McCarthy and NBC Connecticut Chief Meteorologist Ryan Hanrahan,
thank you both so much.
Speaker 3 (49:06):
Thank you, Jeremy.
Speaker 6 (49:09):
Ranks.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
The Middle is brought to you by Long Knock Media,
distributed by Illinois Public Media in Urbana, Illinois, and produced
by Joanne Jennings, Harrison Viatino, Danny Alexander, and John barth.
Our intern is Anika Deshler. Our technical director is Jason Croft.
Support comes from Eversource. They're working with Connecticut leaders to
stabilize electric rates.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
More at eversource dot com slash Solutions.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
Thanks to Connecticut Public Marcintreras, Lucy Albatanchel, Deirdre Tavera, Nancy Bauer,
Bradley O'Connor, Megan Boone, Joe Cross, the Visuals and Sound
media department, and the staff here at the Beautiful Palace
Theater in Waterbury, Connecticut. Thanks also to Nashville Public Radio, iHeartMedia,
and the four hundred and ten public radio stations that
are making it possible for people across the country to
(50:10):
listen to the Middle.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
I'm Jeremy Hobson. I'll talk to you next week.
Welcome to the middle.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'm Jeremy Hobson at the Palace Theater in Waterbury, Connecticut,
along with Tolliver and his band.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey Tolliver, Jeremy, We're a huge theater.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
We made it.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
We finally hang on, we go not we did it.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Now, Tolliver, we are talking about climate change this hour, which,
depending on how you identify politically, is either hugely important
and needs to be tackled at once or not. According
to Pew research, fifty four percent of US adults described
climate change as a major threat to the country's well being.
Among Democrats that's nearly eighty percent, while among Republicans it's
(00:37):
only twenty five percent. And when it comes to politicians,
there are people like the Colorado Governor Jared Poulus, who
last year signed a law to cut greenhouse gas emissions
entirely by the year twenty fifty. And then there's Florida
Governor Ron DeSantis who recently scrubbed the phrase climate change
entirely from a law that was passed in Florida.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
So why has.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Climate change gotten so polarizing? And how do we take
the politics out of climate change and instead focus on
solutions that is our question this hour.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It's a big question, Tolliver massive. All right, let's meet
our panel.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Gina McCarthy is a former administrator for the Environmental Protection
Agency as well as the first White House National Climate
Advisor under President Obama.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Gena McCarthy, Welcome to the.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Middle Thank you, Jeremy. Great to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And Ryan Hanrahan is the chief meteorologist for NBC Connecticut.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Ryan, it is great to have you with us as well.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Thanks for having me, Jeremy.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
So, Gina McCarthy, how much are politics getting in the
way of major action on climate change in this country?
Speaker 5 (01:44):
Well, I think there's a lot of attempt for folks
to get in the way who may not understand the science.
But honestly, we're making absolutely incredible progress.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
You think, so, oh, I know, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I mean, the US did past the largest climate change
bill in the history of the world in the last
couple of years.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
And it did, and it's making a huge difference in
the history of the world.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
You know.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Honestly, we have the Inflation Reduction Act, which has already
generated more than three hundred and fifty two billion dollars
of investment. That's five hundred and twenty four projects. That's
two hundred and fifty two thousand clean energy jobs, and
(02:31):
we're just getting started. The Inflation Reduction Act is a
ten year bill that is purposefully designed to make the
shift from fossil fuels to clean energy, make sure that
clean energy is winning. And that is the secret sauce
to actually address in climate change. And I know that
(02:51):
it's in Republican and Democratic states. They may not be
raising the hand going I want all kinds of praise
for this, but they know that this is real money,
real progress. And Texas, of all places, is actually using
more solar energy than it is fossil fuel energy. So
(03:12):
celebrate that we're winning, and we have to win.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I will say I just recently drove across the entire
country and it is amazing, not just Texas with the solar,
but you see more wind mills across the state of
Kansas and a lot of very red states in this
country certainly than you do in the Northeast.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
We call them turbines, just in case you want.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
To, I'm sorry, that's right, turbines.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Ryan.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
From your vantage point covering the weather every day, how
much are things changing here in Connecticut? Do your viewers
feel the effects of climate change on a regular basis.
Speaker 6 (03:48):
Yeah, I mean they feel the effects of climate change
every day, whether or not they realize it. One of
the things that I've realized here have been at NBC
Connecticut for almost twenty years. Climate change used to be
something that didn't really make it into the daily weathercast.
It was more is it going to rain tomorrow? Will
my weekend plans be watched out? That has changed completely
(04:10):
in the last probably ten years or so. If we
don't talk about climate change, we hear from our viewers saying,
why aren't you talking about this more? And when we
started to talk about it, it was the opposite. People
would say, why are you talking about this? This is
you know, you're pushing an agenda on us. And so
just seeing that change in what our viewers are demanding
(04:34):
from us has been incredible. And it's not just in Connecticut,
which is a blue state. I have colleagues all over
the country, whether it's Alabama or Tennessee or Illinois that
are talking about climate change in their daily weathercast.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
What do you think changed.
Speaker 6 (04:50):
I think it's been the run of storms that we
just seem to have over and over and over and
over again, and the.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
More you see it in your community.
Speaker 6 (04:59):
The more it's not this abstract global issue that seems
impossible to tackle. It's man, my grandparents summer cottage is
almost getting washed away, or we've lost power again for
a week from another one of these freak storms, and
so people are seeing it and now they want information.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
One of the reasons I wanted to have you here
is because meteorologists and TV meteorologists are still seen as
very apolitical people. You have to be trusted. Even though
sometimes you get the forecast wrong, you still have to
be trusted by the people, and.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
You are trusted by people.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So have you worried about losing any trust among your
viewers when you do start talking about this storm is
related or is most likely related to climate change.
Speaker 6 (05:43):
Sure, you don't want to alienate your viewers, but at
the same time, you need to be honest with them,
and you can explain to them these are the things
we know about climate change. These are things we don't
necessarily know about climate change.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
And it's not.
Speaker 6 (05:56):
Necessarily that we're advocating for certain policy positions. We're giving
people information. For most people who are watching us on TV,
the weatherman on the morning newscast or the evening newscast
is probably the only scientists they have any rapport with
day to day, and so we are in sort of
a unique position to tackle these sort of challenging subjects,
(06:20):
and we're communicators.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
That's what we do.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
We communicate somewhat difficult subjects about the atmosphere and find
a way like, Okay, how am I going to condense
this into two minutes and thirty seconds and tell someone
how to address their kids for the bus stop tomorrow morning,
or how to make their weekend plan. So we can
do that, and it's something that we work really hard
to do.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Gina McCarthy, you mentioned that there's a lot of progress
that has been made and that in fact, even in
redder parts of America, politicians are supporting.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Some of these goals.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
And yet if you turn on some media, the words
green New Deal are like a three bad words they
could just throw in, and it's like, oh, the Democrats
just want to spend all this money on the Green
New Deal.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
What about that?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
What about the way that this is communicated and how
that fires up certain parts of the populace.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
You know, Jeremy, when I got a call from President Biden.
We had a conversation almost about exactly that issue, how
we could transition to clean energy at a time when
people needed leadership. If you remember the prior administration, everybody
(07:33):
was still had COVID, everybody was still locked up in
their homes, everybody was trying to work if they could remotely.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
It was a terrible time.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
And so the challenge of dealing with climate wasn't to
make that one more burden for them to worry about.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
It was to.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
Frame it in a way that we could make huge progress,
but that every progress we had to make had to
be better for families. It had to benefit them by
lowering their energy costs. It had to reduce the air
pollution that's right now across the world is killing seven
(08:12):
point five million people every single year with premature death.
So we focused on how do we make it relevant
to human beings. So it's more jobs, it's less money
for families, and it's better communities, stronger equity considerations every
(08:34):
step of the way, so that low income communities would
be the big winner in this.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
And that's how it was framed. But it's not talking
about greenhouse gas emissions.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
You mentioned the prior administration the Trump administration. What if
the Trump administration is the next administration, how do you
make it so that this is not an issue where
the Trump administration says, let's reverse all of the things.
But people still want these things. They want the lower
end energy costs, they want a cleaner environment. How do
you make that not an issue that gets switched completely.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
Well, the law is on the books. This is not
just a rule executive. This is congressional action. But the
most important thing to remember is that both red and
blue states, and frankly more red states are grabbing the
money at the Inflation Reduction Act. This is real money
for political constituencies that those governors actually care about in mayors,
(09:32):
they are spending that money.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
I will guarantee you.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
That they will continue to spend that money under any
administration because it benefits them in their constituents. And so
we just have to keep a perspective here. Do I
think it's going to be I have to be very
cautious about not saying anything too rude, But if that
transition is made in the next administration, they'll do everything
(09:59):
they can, I'm sure to undermine this, but you are
going to hear for the winners.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
He is why will they do want to Why will
they do that because of interests, because of you know, money,
because they strongly believe that there should be no action.
Because why do you think they would want to reverse
all of these things?
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Well, history tells us that that was the case, right,
And and you know, I don't think, you know, a
Trump administration is going to value anything that the Biden
administration did. If you're listening to what's what's being said,
it's all about how do we revive fossil fuels, How
(10:40):
do we make fossil fuels the winner? How do we
ignore the damages and the destruction that further ignorance and
in action on climate change is going to bring about?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Ryan, we talked a little bit there about the language
that is used. I noticed that there was some polling
that showed Republican voters, especially young Republican voters, support environmental
protection on the whole, but support drops.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
When the language switches to climate change in the poll.
What do you make of that?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
It just shows how polarized we are. And it's so tribal.
Speaker 6 (11:19):
You know, things that are good ideas on their face
suddenly become toxic. People want to save on their electric bills.
People want to see the air and the water be cleaner.
So when we're talking about these things, if we can
stick to how, like you said, Ginette, how are these
(11:40):
things impacting you and your family and your bills and
your household. Most people don't go home and around the
dinner table talk about the melting ice caps. They do
talk about their homeowner's insurance policy rates. They talk about
how expensive it is to heat their house in the winter.
And we can talk about those things and give people
the INFRA nation they need to be more informed citizens.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Well, stand by because any moment we're going to talk
about how attitudes and the national discourse around climate change
have evolved over the years.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Don't go anywhere you're listening to the middle.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Okay, speaking of climate change, let's make it hot.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Hey hey, hey, but just slide.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Put the funny in.
Speaker 7 (12:25):
Your feet, put the pipe down to coach, jam with
the creed every day, your damn ham sandwich, to beef
chewing on red and some wine and some breef. Feeling
lack of God, don't cancing the meat cut the TV
owner seem to be dancing, but jeeze a big big
boggy and fish with the grease. Baby, I'm trying to
make money. Hush, I'm trying to get paid. I'm trying
(12:46):
to eat lobster.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Can's fool your bathe I'm trying to make money.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
I'm trying to get paid.
Speaker 7 (12:54):
I'm trying to eat Lobsterolae.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Now this is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're
just tuning, in the Middle is a national call in show.
We are focused on elevating voices from the middle geographically, philosophically,
and politically, or maybe you just want to meet in
the middle. This hour, we are not taking calls because
we're at the Palace Theater in Waterbury, Connecticut, asking you
(13:18):
how do we take the politics out of climate change.
I'm joined by former EPA administrator Gena McCarthy and NBC
Connecticut Chief meteorologist Ryan Hanrahan And before we get to
some live audience questions, Gina McCarthy, one thing that I
find very interesting is years ago my journalistic career, many
years ago, just the question of whether the climate was
(13:40):
changing was something that you had to get to both
sides on.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
You don't have to do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
It seems like we have all agreed most of us
have agreed as Americans the climate is changing, and even
that humans are responsible for the climate changing for some
of it.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
And are there lessons to be learned from that in
terms of coming to consensus on solutions.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
We probably ought to toss that to Ryan because it
came from Ryan. It came from scientists who were very clear.
But then it had to you know, scientists are great,
but then have to sort of bring this down to reality.
We were talking about this already, Ryan. You had to
talk to people that this was a risk for them
(14:22):
and their families, in their future, for our kids. You
got to personalize these issues instead of talking about the planet.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
And I think the more we.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
Realized the danger and could explain it in human terms,
then human beings can then begin to realize, especially if
you do something like the Inflation Reduction Act the Bipodisan
Infrastructure Law, that these would be things that would.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Make their lives better.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
That's what government is supposed to be about. That's what
governing has to be about.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Ryan.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I mean, I think people see it with their own eyes.
You see it.
Speaker 6 (14:58):
You know, every is the hottest summer around record pretty much.
You see these hurricanes that are stronger producing more rainfall.
It's incredible the kinds of things that we're seeing. We're
seeing the water temperatures in the Atlantic Ocean right now
as we just started hurricane season. They're typically what you
would see in the end of August and it's the
(15:19):
beginning of June. So no matter what you're looking at,
you keep seeing these things, these record after record after record.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
You know, we mentioned it a little bit before.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
Insurance companies are just dropping, you know, not offering homeless
insurance policies anymore, across vast swaths of the country. It's
not just Florida anymore in California, it's even places like
Iowa that have been hit by a number of these
really powerful thunderstorms.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
And when we try to tell the story about climate change.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
The most effective way to do that is not interviewing
some scientists on zoom who's talking about the temperature increasing
by one point five degrees celsius in the next thirty years.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
That's such an abstraction. No one knows what that means
for them.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
But when you do tell the story about the farmer
who has been dealing with floods for the last three years,
and it's the farm stand down the street where people
can't buy their corn in August and September.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
They remember that and they think about that.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I grew up in Central Illinois and Tornado Alley, and
when I was growing up, it was like April was
the month that there might be a tornado. Now it's
six months out of the years it could be a tornado.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
I mean, we had a couple of winters ago.
Speaker 6 (16:28):
We had a tornado in the Berkshires in Massachusetts in February.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
I mean, these things just didn't happen before.
Speaker 6 (16:34):
Cape Cod in Massachusetts has had a number of tornadoes
in the last ten years.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
They had never had one on record into the last
ten years.
Speaker 6 (16:42):
Because the water is so much warmer, So no matter
where you turn and no matter what community you are,
and across the country, so many of these weather events
and extremes have the fingerprints of climate change all over them.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Do you see Ryan, your viewers these days on the
personal level, starting to go green, to get solar panels,
to buy electric cars, to reduce their water in bigger
ways than they did before, even if it's just for
economic reasons.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I think, and Genie, you can probably talk to this
as well.
Speaker 6 (17:14):
It seems to me that the economics of these things
and the market forces are driving so much of this.
You know, obviously, if you put subsidies on more efficient
HVAC unit or an electric car, that may sort of
tilt the scale in one favor. But you're seeing this
now all the time. People are making these changes. What
(17:34):
I'm interested in is what happens so say there is
a second Trump administration and try to roll back a
lot of the things in the Inflationships, a lot of
the incentives, things in the Inflation Reduction Act. The market
forces may be moving so strongly now where you can't
you know, the horses out of the barn. You know,
I don't know how much you can bring back now
(17:54):
because the cost of batteries is dropping, and that.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
The huge investment manufacturing. Look, the challenge we have is
to convince Red states that their lives will be better
if they pay attention to all of these investment opportunities.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
And it's actually happening.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
More money is going to Red states, and it was
frankly designed that way. One of the reasons it was
a design that way is it's those Red states that
have such incredible challenges that need manufacturing again, they're the
ones that lost everything.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
All those jobs went away.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
You know, there were challenges now, I know politically along
blue and red lines. But in the end, people need
to be able to put food on their table and
know that their kids are going to have a future.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
So they're grabbing this for all its worth.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
Red governance will not allow a rollback that's going to
stop battery manufacturing in their communities. On new auto menu factoring,
it's changed everything.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
You're talking about jobs.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
But also in many cases, if you, for example, go solar,
you might save money on day one versus the electric
bill that you were paying before, just because of all
the incentives on the loan for your panels and just
not paying these ever increasing electric bills.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
I mean, that is the economic incentive, the.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Carrot, the best way to get people to decide that
it's in their interest to it is a loser to.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
Ask for sacrifice right from human beings. I don't care
what you're talking about. If you want them to stand
up and give this and give up, maybe that was
the twenties and thirties, it ain't today, and so it's
all about personal benefits, and I don't I'm not saying
that thinking there's anything wrong with it.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
There isn't. People are struggling all over the country. Give
them something to be hopeful about. Give them good stuff
that they can afford. I mean, it's so excit citing
that that's available now. Look, I'm getting old.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
Who knew would actually have these things available when I
was seventy years old?
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Grab this run with it.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
See the change when people get a sense of hope,
a sense of real opportunity for them and their families.
That's what we need to have. That's what we have
available to us right now.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I think, Jeremy.
Speaker 6 (20:28):
One of the things that I noticed to sort of
piggyback off that one of the most depressing conversations I
had was I do a number of school visits.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
I talk about science and the stem fields.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
I was talking to a group of I think they
were high school sophomores in Connecticut, and the topic came up,
how are we doing, you know, with climate change?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And every single one of them said that they had
no hope that we would fix this.
Speaker 6 (20:53):
And I thought to myself, what a disservice scientists and
politicians have done that we just we painted this as
there's no get out of this.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
We're in trouble. And you know, to hear sixteen year
olds say that, it's like.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Oh, we can't.
Speaker 6 (21:13):
You got to give people some kind of hope and
you have to, you know, otherwise they're not going to
make informed decisions if they think, oh, there's nothing we
can do with sapperhands, right.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
You know, there are so many things that were impossible
to do until they got done. And I know this,
I know what the science says, I know the challenge
that's before us. But if we allow young people to
sit on the sidelines, we will be assured of climate disaster.
So we have to convince young people to get active
(21:43):
and engaged and support them. Explain to them that we
have a world of opportunity ahead of us, but they
are the future and we have to make sure that
they have a place and they feel that they can
make a difference.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Let's go to some audience questions right over here on
this side. Yes, sir, it is David.
Speaker 8 (22:08):
I'm from Hamden, Connecticut and I'm old.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Me too.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Should we hang out.
Speaker 8 (22:16):
A question for Ryan. It's good to hear that you
feel viewers are asking for more information on climate, which
is a good change I do feel though, that we're
still missing the next step, which is to try to
be very specific about why why is this happening? Is
it co two levels? Is it the fossil fuel industry?
(22:36):
And I sense a hesitancy in media to point a
very specific finger there. And I guess the question is
do you feel pressure or does your NBC Connecticut feel
pressure because of sponsorship to stay away from being too specific.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
That's a great question.
Speaker 6 (22:54):
The company that I work for could not be any
more supportive of whilst doing climate change reporting.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
I think they would.
Speaker 6 (23:00):
They probably want me to do more climate change reporting,
but I only have so much time in the course
of a day, so we don't get that.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
We don't get that pushback.
Speaker 6 (23:10):
I think it can be challenging though, in the context
of a two and a half or three minute segment,
you've got to figure out, Okay, how am I going
to distill this in a way that makes sense, something
that's fairly complicated, in a way that people can use,
and information that's useful to them. But I think we
can always do a better job, so there's no pushback.
(23:31):
I do think that when we're having a conversation about
climate change, what's happening. The more local we can make
it the better. If you can meet people where they
are and show them what's happening in their backyard, you're
giving them some of the tools that they need to
be an informed voter.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Can I just add something about this age thing.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
When when I was Deep Commissioner in Connecticut, thank you,
thank you so much, we used to give out climate
awards right an award ceremony, and one time there was
a kid who was I think he was probably eight
years old that went house to house to get signatures
(24:18):
and commitments for the competition. But it ended up people
put solar on their roofs right, And he spent a
whole summer just going around trying to get these commitments,
and he was awarded. And then the other awardee was
somebody who was basically making his nursing home more energy efficient, right,
(24:44):
going around changing light bulbs, insulation, blah blah blah. And
he was about he was at least eighty, if not
ninety years old. And that was the juxtaposition that told
me that climate change is everybody problem, but it's also
everybody's opportunity because this is a generational issue, This is
(25:08):
a multi generational issue.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Let's go to another question over here.
Speaker 9 (25:13):
Hi, I'm David Hill. I live in Middlebury, Connecticut, and
I'm a pulmonologist here in Waterbury, Connecticut. This is a
public health crisis. So climate change is effecting the air
for all of us who breathe. We've just shown that
we can respond to a public health crisis, albeit suboptimally.
But my question is, as we pursue mitigation and adaptation,
(25:38):
how do we make sure we don't leave communities behind,
so minority communities, people of color, who are already disproportionately
affected by pollution. How do we make sure as we
make progress those communities get safer and healthier.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
Yeah, I could not agree with you more that climate
is the ultimate health challenge, right. You know, I think
there are many ways to answer that question, but I
think the most important thing is to continue to recognize
(26:20):
that that climate is a health problem.
Speaker 10 (26:22):
Right.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
It has to be front and center, and I think
there are many ways in which that can be reflected
in decisions that are made. But the equity issue is
is really a driving force in the architecture of the
Inflation Reduction Act and its implementation. If you follow the
(26:44):
decisions that are being made and the basically the way
in which money has to be spent. Will know, you
will realize very quickly that the vast majority of the
money is going to go to low income and minority communities.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
They are the ones that have been devastated.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
They are the ones that have been neglected and actually
not allowed to move forward. And it's and that has
to be reversed. And I think that's exactly what you're
going to be seeing. And I think that is where
the health benefits would be so large if we could
(27:26):
get to those communities. Because you know as well as
I who's burdened by these challenges. It is folks that
have no other option than to live in the in
the shadows of heavy industry with no ability to be
able to move. That's changing, That has to change. That
(27:46):
must always be front and center. We're in the United
States of America. We have lost communities because of our
ignorance and our and frankly, our bigotry. It's time to
turn that around. And there's every opportunity for us to
do that now, every opportunity.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Tell over, you're clapping there.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
No, absolutely.
Speaker 7 (28:13):
I've lived in a lot of communities that were under
freeways on your power plans growing up in Chicago Pilsen,
and so I know we've had a lot of talk
about minorities tonight.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
So I'm glad the folks are engaging with the issue.
I'm very proud and thankful.
Speaker 11 (28:24):
I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Let's get another question before we take a quick break.
Go ahead.
Speaker 12 (28:31):
Hi. My name is Kimton and I live in New Haven, Connecticut.
And last year there was a lawsuit where the young
people of Montana got the right to a safe climate
by calling on the rights that they had in the
Montana Constitution for a healthful environment. And I'm working on
(28:55):
actually getting with the Green Amendment movement to get the
rights to a clean and healthy environment into the Connecticut
state constitution. And there are people working on that in
states across the country. And so I think that that's
a very important part of the young people feeling like
(29:16):
they have a future and that the rights of every
person to have a clean and healthful environment should also
be in the constitution. It should be a fundamental right.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
Thank you, thank you. It's funny how so many other
countries have figured this out.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Right, Well, why do you think that is?
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Why do you think that the US is so different
than so many other countries when it comes to the
politics of climate change.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
You know, the countries I was just running through my head,
the countries that have passed amendments like that. You know,
the United States is a lodge in complex and rich country.
That means you have, you know, you have very differing
(30:05):
politics place to place, and it also means that there
are going to be a lot of folks, like folks
or in the fossil fuel industry that are going to
do everything humanly possible to not put a price on carbon,
which is what we're talking about, and that makes it
extraordinarily challenging. It's not an excuse, but it's more challenging
(30:30):
than in other countries that have a lot more green space,
a lot more that they rely on natural resources much
more heavily. They do not have significant fossil presence, and
it's just different.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
We'll stand by because there's much more ahead, including whether
Gena McCarthy and Ryan Hanner hen think humanity is up
to the task of saving the planet in the next
two years. You're listening to the middle coming to you
from the Palace Theater in Waterbury, Connecticut.
Speaker 7 (31:01):
Hit it you only gonna make me slam my head
against the wall.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Got it feeling crazy? Does everybody know imall?
Speaker 7 (31:12):
Yeah, bring the heat tube, come up to me when
you gotta speak to that time. Got evil, But I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Push a wall to the seat.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
Food baby.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
I know that I'm got it in the bad.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Flags in on.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
This is the Middle.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
I'm Jeremy Hobson at the Palace Theater in Waterbury, Connecticut,
and we're asking you this hour, how do we take
the politics out of climate change. I'm joined by former
EPA administrator Gena McCarthy and NBC Connecticut Chief Meteorologist Ryan
hand Orhan. And before we get back to some more
audience questions, Ryan, I know that you, in addition to
(32:07):
covering the weather here in Connecticut, follow the national news
very closely. Do you find the debate about climate different
at the local and state level than you do at
the national level?
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I think so.
Speaker 6 (32:20):
I think you know, when you're talking at a local level,
people are invested in their communities and they see what's happening,
and they also see what needs to be done.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
At a national level, everything just becomes so polarized.
Speaker 6 (32:33):
And I don't know if we're necessarily talking about solutions
as much as we should be at the national level.
But I do think we have gotten to a point
that we're not arguing really as much anymore about is
climate change happening?
Speaker 3 (32:48):
And are we responsible?
Speaker 6 (32:50):
Now we're getting to a point where we should have
been thirty years ago about all right, what do we
do about it? And I think that's a helpful step forward,
But I worry that we've taken so long to get
to that point where we're just going to make this
entire process way more painful than it needed to be.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Gina McCarthy.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
We look at the debate in this country, we talk
about local and state versus national.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
What about people who.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
In order to say there shouldn't be any action in
the United States on climate change? On dealing with climate change,
say well, we could do something, but India and China
are still going to be polluting like crazy, And why
should we handicap our economy to help the world when
they're not doing it.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
For me, that's a very easy answer is that we're
not handicapping our economy, we're growing it. The clean energy
is the path to the future for the United States
and elsewhere, and I think the challenge is that every
country needs to participate and we all have to work together.
(33:57):
I think that's the biggest challenge that we f is
that we get together, we talk a lot, we set goals,
and then we don't meet them, and so we have
to get real about this in every country. But you know,
I think we'll be doing okay. I think we'll get
through this. I do have a lot more respect for
(34:20):
you know, local and state governments. I think subnational action
is a big deal. It was a big deal when
the prior administration came in.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Who stood up.
Speaker 5 (34:33):
It was governors and states and local communities that refused
to kowtow. And I think if that happens again, you're
going to see it again. So hopefully we'll get an
opportunity to actually move forward after the next election and
to do the work.
Speaker 11 (34:49):
That we have to do.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Let's hear from our audience. Here go ahead.
Speaker 13 (34:55):
Hi, I'm Sarah. I'm from Middlebury, Connecticut, next town over,
and I'm twenty five, So remember of one of the
younger generations, and I want to go back to the
points you've made about working together as well as youth,
because June actually is intergenerational Climate Action month. So I
(35:17):
was wondering if you could speak to the importance and
maybe also progress that has been made by generations working together.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
I'll let either one of you take that.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
I mean, I think the youth are our future.
Speaker 6 (35:35):
You guys have the most to lose and the most
to gain from making the transition to a greener, cleaner economy.
But I also think it's important that you know. I
do think it's great when young people are involved. And
I think one thing that you learn with age is
(35:55):
that you can't let the perfect be the enemy the good,
and you do need to be pragmatic too, And I
think working together through different generations, I think that's something
that your voice is really really important. Just like people
who have been here for a long time and have
been working in the public policy space on climate change,
(36:18):
they have a lot to offer and share as well.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Let me just ask you, do you feel let down
by the previous generations on this issue? I mean, how
hopeless do you feel about the future because of the
actions of other generations?
Speaker 13 (36:33):
Yeah, thank you, I don't feel hopeless. But I know
what I hate to hear is when members of the
older generation take responsibility for the climate crisis we're in.
But then say it's your generation's responsibility to fix it,
and you'll fix it.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Great point, very good point.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Thank you so much for that. Let's go over to
this side.
Speaker 11 (37:01):
Yeah, Hi, thank you very much. Hear me, and thanks
for the great music. My name is Phoebe Godfrey. I'm
a sociology professor at Yukon and I teach on the environment.
I'm actually right now teaching on society and climate change.
I live in Willhelmantick, and I came here specifically because
I found the question so provocative of how do we
get the politics out of climate change? And I want
(37:22):
to challenge you that that's the wrong question. That the
political sphere belongs to the people, right, and it is
the people who are most disenfranchised. And if we go
back into the question you asked of, you know, why
is the United States so challenged in this area? We
have to remember, you know, we are a nation founded
on genocide, We're a nation founded on slavery, and all
(37:44):
of that is still currently denied.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
I mean, it's really hard.
Speaker 11 (37:47):
To teach some of this history in a lot of
our schools, and so climate change denial is just another
one of our denials and even there was research that
denying COVID came off the backs of because we're so
used to denying. And so if we look at our
history and ask ourselves, well, what was the motivation here?
Obviously economics, right, those systems are very profitable and the
(38:10):
destruction of the planet is still incredibly profitable. And so
the question I want to challenge you with is not
how do we get politics out of climate change? How
do we get corporate interest out of the discussion right
and get the people back into it?
Speaker 2 (38:26):
So great, great question, and Gena McCarthy, that is something
I want to ask you about. How much are corporate
interests holding up action on climate change.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
They're doing their best, they as they always have, but
they're not winning the way they used to. I mean,
if you look at the data, you will see that
the fossil fuel interests are really now secondary to the
clean energy interests.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
But that dynamic could change dramatically in the next election.
Speaker 11 (39:01):
And so.
Speaker 5 (39:03):
The you know, the best that I could could say
about about tackling this is that in the last COP
the Conference of the parties, they actually finally said that
we need to transition away from fossil fuels.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
If that's the best we can say. Now we are
in a lot of trouble.
Speaker 11 (39:23):
The problem with a lot of the green energy is
we're still increasing consumption. Our energy use in this country
is going up, our consumption is going up globally, and
so it's still the same model of growth. And until
we deal with growth on a finite planet, I think
we really have to have a reckoning. And we'll have
a reckoning, and unfortunately it'll be the most disenfranchised around
(39:46):
the world who are going to feel that more than
those of us who have created the problem.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
So thank you again.
Speaker 5 (39:52):
Well fossil fuel, you know, the burning of fossil fuels
is the reason why equality is terrible. It's the reason
why we have time a change, It's the reason why
seven and a half million people die every single year unnecessarily.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
And we just have to deal with fossil fuels in
the more direct way we must.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Let me ask you, when you in certain parts of
this country, and I'm thinking of California, you look at
the cars on the road now, like half of them,
it seems, are either hybrid or electric cars. When are
we going to have that situation? Do you think in
Ohio or Kentucky in this country.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
Well, like anything else, you have to have the infrastructure.
You got to have the charging the infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Which is a big part of the bill that was
passed nationally.
Speaker 5 (40:42):
And that's that I think is being built. But you know,
I mean you raise a good point. Part of this
I think looks as looks. People look at it as
a threat to their way of life, which is your point.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
I like my big Ford pickup.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Like I don't want to drive a Tesla cyber try.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
The only thing I can ask people to do is
drive one and then talk to me about I got one.
It's wicked good.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
We've got another young person here, let's hear from you.
Speaker 14 (41:21):
My name's Robbie. I'm from Ashford, Connecticut. And so I
think the red states that are getting money for manufacturing
are more red because of the fact that the after
people lost jobs from like downscaling of manufacturing, politicians jumped
(41:42):
in and said, like, these people are the reason that
you lost your jobs, and we're going to get rid
of them.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
I think poverty has a big deal to do with it,
and I think it is a lack of job opportunity
in states, and it's a fundamental lack of educational systems.
I mean, and so there's a lot of things right
now in our country that need fixing. They're not all
(42:10):
going to be fixed by a climate discussion, that's for sure.
But you will not be able to rebuild the United
States of America unless everybody has access to a good education,
and unless everybody has access to jobs that.
Speaker 4 (42:26):
Are sufficiently paid that you can raise a family. That's
fundamental challenges.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Just before you go, as I continue my poll of
the young, how old are you?
Speaker 1 (42:41):
I'm twelve, twelve years old. Wow, thank you for coming.
That's awesome.
Speaker 4 (42:45):
That's awesome, that's great, really good question.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Are you Are you hopeful about my kids?
Speaker 4 (42:53):
Weren't that smart?
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Are you hopeful about the climate crisis being solved?
Speaker 14 (42:59):
I'm hopeful, very helpful.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
And how do you think it's going to happen.
Speaker 14 (43:04):
I don't think it's going to happen spontaneously. I think
it's going to take a while, but it'll be fixed eventually.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Great, Thank you so much. Let's go to another member
of the audience over here.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
I'm Mary Ellen, and.
Speaker 10 (43:20):
I live in Wolcate, Connecticut, and I remember when I
was like in second and third grade, I had no
idea what the word recycle meant. And look at where
we are now. So I really do believe we have
to give these kids hope. That really bothers me that
you said these teenagers don't have hope. And I got
a challenge for you. Let's start gearing this information to
(43:44):
kids in fun little songs and little play things, but
part of your weather piece once a week or every day.
Teach the kids what's the problem and how can they help?
And I think this is the answer here, Tolliver, I'm challenging.
(44:08):
I got you, So I really do believe that it's
the kids. I mean, you're talking up here, and I'm
really trying to understandable about the politics and all that,
but it's down here that we need to give the hope.
Speaker 4 (44:21):
You know, we have to teach kids what's going wrong
and how they can help.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
You know, Ryan Hannerhan, I remember when I grew up,
there was a show called Captain Planet that we used
to watch. I mean, my generation also grew up with
Earth Day as a thing that you would celebrate every year.
There's probably even more of that now than there was them.
But what do you think of this idea of talking
to really young people, including our very young middle audience,
(44:49):
about climate at a at a young age.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Oh, we've got to do it. And you have to
offer hope and solutions. You can't just make everything seem
be doom or unattainable.
Speaker 6 (45:01):
You can't because that's that's not the way the world works.
And we need an engaged group of young people in
this country to make change. And that's that's how this
is going to be fixed. You remember when you were
in school, remember hearing about the ozone hole? Yeah, well
what happened to the ozone hole?
Speaker 3 (45:21):
We fixed it.
Speaker 6 (45:22):
We got together, countries all around the world came together
and was at the Montreal Protocol was that it was,
and came together and said, hey, this is a problem,
here's a solution.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
Let's do it. And so we we've done this before.
This is a bigger problem, but we can do this too.
Speaker 6 (45:37):
And I think you know, to your point, you've got
to give people hope and you have to explain to them.
You have to be very you know, give them specific
reasons and specific things that hey, climate change is happening,
and here's where you're seeing it in your day to
day life, and here's why why it's an important issue,
you know.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
The Ozone hole, Gina McCarthy was. I remember one of
the points in Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth movie.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
He talked about that.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
But now, to some people in this country, if you
mentioned al Gore, the first thing they'll say is, well,
he flies private planes. Why should we listen to him
about climate change? Which has been said about a lot
of people who are climate activists, and then they do
things that are not good for the environment.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
How do you how do you deal with that in
the politics of this.
Speaker 5 (46:26):
Well, I have to say I don't fly on private planes.
If I had one, I might, you know, I think
we have to be realistic. Honestly, no one should have
to sacrifice everything in their life to actually be an
advocate on climate. You try to use public transportation to
(46:48):
try to do better. I mean, those are all great things.
But I don't judge al Gore by how he travels.
I judge him by his message. I judge him by
his commitment, and I think we all want to be
judged that way. You know, we'll do our best to
try to limit our own cobbon emissions, but honestly, the
(47:10):
big thing is we've got to fix climate change. And
that's not just individuals making change it is it has
to be a systemic and large scale change.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Let's get one more question right over here.
Speaker 15 (47:24):
I'm Virginia from West Hartford. What is the most significant
thing that we as individuals can do to address the
challenges of climate change.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
I'll let you each give a give a give a
short answer to that question.
Speaker 6 (47:39):
Brian Hanrahan, I would say, be an informed voter. It's
probably the number one thing you can do.
Speaker 4 (47:46):
It's a really good answer.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Geena McCarthy, make it personal and talk a lot.
Speaker 7 (47:56):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Okay, Now, I did promise that we were going to
get your thoughts on this one thing finally, which is
the United Nations Climate cheap said this year that humanity
only has two years left to save the world. And
that was back in April. So we're now really in
trouble because it's only a year and ten months. Do
(48:18):
you think humanity can do it?
Speaker 5 (48:20):
Gina McCarthy, I do not know where that time lane
came from. Really, yes, I do think humanity can do.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
It, but you don't think that timeline is realistic.
Speaker 5 (48:30):
I have no idea where you came up with that. Okay,
and it's kind of annoying. To be very honest with you.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
It's not helpful.
Speaker 4 (48:36):
It's so not helpful.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
It's not helpful.
Speaker 6 (48:39):
No, I mean because it's a made up statistic. But
that also that doesn't give people hope. It makes it
seem like it's something you know, we're not going to
change that much in the next eighteen months, So what's
the point.
Speaker 4 (48:52):
Listen. We got to get busy, but that's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Well, I want to thank my guests for our EPA
administrator Gina McCarthy and NBC Connecticut Chief Meteorologist Ryan Hanrahan,
thank you both so much.
Speaker 3 (49:06):
Thank you, Jeremy.
Speaker 6 (49:09):
Ranks.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
The Middle is brought to you by Long Knock Media,
distributed by Illinois Public Media in Urbana, Illinois, and produced
by Joanne Jennings, Harrison Viatino, Danny Alexander, and John barth.
Our intern is Anika Deshler. Our technical director is Jason Croft.
Support comes from Eversource. They're working with Connecticut leaders to
stabilize electric rates.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
More at eversource dot com slash Solutions.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
Thanks to Connecticut Public Marcintreras, Lucy Albatanchel, Deirdre Tavera, Nancy Bauer,
Bradley O'Connor, Megan Boone, Joe Cross, the Visuals and Sound
media department, and the staff here at the Beautiful Palace
Theater in Waterbury, Connecticut. Thanks also to Nashville Public Radio, iHeartMedia,
and the four hundred and ten public radio stations that
are making it possible for people across the country to
(50:10):
listen to the Middle.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
I'm Jeremy Hobson. I'll talk to you next week.
Host
Jeremy Hobson
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