October 28, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode of One Thing Trump Did, we look at the No Kings movement: explaining where it came from, who drives it, and where it's headed. Jeremy is joined by Ezra Levin, co-founder and co-director of Indivisible, one of the key organizations behind No Kings. #nokings #movement #advocacy #Trump #advocacy #MikeJohnson
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome to one thing Trump did, available exclusively on the
Middle podcast feed. I'm Jeremy Hobson, and this week we're
looking at one of the biggest movements pushing back against
the Trump administration. That would be No Kings. Two weeks ago,
nearly seven million people rallied against what organizers called Trump's
authoritarian control. The protests were largely peaceful, with big gatherings
(00:38):
in Times Square and downtown Chicago and smaller ones outside
of town halls across the country. Organizers say there were
twenty six hundred separate events in all fifty states in
the week leading up to No King's Day. Republican leaders,
including the House Speaker Mike Johnson, called the planned demonstrations
un American reporters asked Trump what he thought aboard Air
(01:02):
Force One the day after, and here's what he said.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
The demonstrations were very small, very ineffective, and the people
who were worked out. When you look at those people,
those are not representative of the people of our country
beside San Francisco. And I'm not a king. I'm not
a king. I work my ass off to make our
country great, that's all it is. I'm not a king
at all.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
The president also voiced his disapproval on social media, even
posting an AI generated video of him wearing a crown
and flying a plane that's dropping brown waste on protesters.
So where does the No King's movement go from here?
And what are its goals? That is the subject of
this week's One Thing Trump Did. I'm joined by Ezra Levin,
who is the co founder and co executive director of Indivisible,
(01:45):
that's one of the key organizations behind No Kings.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Ezra, great to have you here, Hey, great to be talking. Well.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
First off, when we decided to do this interview, we
went to look at who was behind the No Kings rallies,
and Indivisible is just one of many organizations.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Since who is behind No Kings?
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Well, fundamentally, the folks behind No Kings are normal, everyday
people on the ground. You don't get twenty seven hundred
events globally with some kind of top down structure. So
these are folks who are nurses and IT technicians and
teachers and waiters. There are people in the community, and
these are in red states, Blue states, purple states, rural communities,
suburban communies, urban communities. I mean, gosh, we were in
(02:23):
every single congressional district in the country. You don't get
there with any kind of national approach. And also there
were a lot of organizations involved. So the No King's
Coalition included Indivisible, but there were about three hundred different
organizations that include unions like American Federation of Teachers and SCIU,
includes other people, mover groups, organizing groups like fifty to
(02:46):
fifty one or move On or Working Families Party, includes
good government groups like the ACLU, and Public Citizens. So
there are a lot of organizational leaders. But I think
that the beating heart of this movement is the American people.
I mean that's who out there actually doing it. Every
single one of those twenty seven hundred events on the map,
there's somebody behind that. There's somebody in that community said, ah,
I got to do something. And what they did is
(03:08):
they got together their Indivisible group where they got together
they're no Kings protest and they led it.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
How do the groups, though, the organizations like Indivisible and
ACLU and all these other groups, how did they coordinate?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Is there a meeting, who's in charge? Who runs it?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
There is a meeting there, I mean, there are mini meetings,
any kind of big coalition like this. What you're going
to see is there are meetings, and there are group chats,
and there are slacks to coordinate everybody on a regular basis.
There's a division of labor, with different organizations taking on
different pieces. So it really was an enormous group effort.
You don't get to the largest peaceful protest in American
(03:43):
history without doing something like that.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
And this was the largest peaceful protest in American history.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
That's right. I mean more than seven million people at
twenty seven hundred events. Put it in perspective, the largest
protest of the first Trump term, which was powerful and
pactful and inspiring, was the Families Belong Together protests. If
you remember this early twenty eighteen, they're about seven hundred
and fifty events nationwide. That was roughly the scale of
the Women's March in early twenty seventeen, which was enormous
(04:09):
and inspired and impactful itself. This was twenty seven hundred events,
not double, not tripled, nearly quadruple the size of the
one before that. It also is worth noting it didn't
come out of nowhere. In April, we held the Hands
Off rallies and that was about thirteen hundred events, about
three million people. In June on Donald Trump's birthday when
he had the military parade, we held the first No
(04:31):
King's Day and that was about five million people at
twenty one hundred events. So we've gone from three million
to five million to seven million. Three of the five
or so largest protests in American history have occurred this
year against this regime.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Are you worried when you get all these groups together
that have different aims some of them, that the message
becomes a little bit muddled. I saw a part of
a rally, the big one that happened on Boston Common
Do on No King's Day, and there were chants by
one person on a stage of free Palestine, which as
far as I know, is not one of the state
admissions of No Kings Sin.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
There's a quote that I've heard from I think it
was Moon mitral Overt working Familis Party that has just
been ringing in my ears ever since he said it,
and it's that in a moment like this, when you're
fighting for democracy, when you're organizing against authoritarian and overreach,
if you're organizing in a room where everybody agrees on everything,
your room is too small, you need to be finding
(05:27):
a bigger room. So I think it's one of the
strengths of the No King's movement that it is ideologically diverse,
that is geographically dispersed, and that everybody doesn't agree on
every single thing. What they agree on, though, is foundational,
foundational to the founding of the country. That we don't
do kings in this country. That we aren't going to
put up with monarchical rule that is shown in cities
(05:51):
being invaded and occupied by this regime, by a secret
police force that is terrorizing American communities, by an administration
that is disregarding the constitution and our laws in order
to impose its will. We can disagree on education policy,
on foreign policy, on tax policy. I look forward to
those disagreements. But if we're not able to ensure that
(06:12):
democracy reasserts itself, we're not going to be able to
have those disagreements. So I think it's actually a strength
that we have a wide range of voices getting behind
this one basic demand.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
But what is the demand?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
What is it that you want to accomplish As a result,
it's a show of force, certainly to have all these
people all across the country in large and small towns.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
But what is it that you want to happen.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Well, I want an end to the illegal and unconstitutional
behavior from this regime. So I mentioned some of the
things they're doing. We have the largest federal law enforcement
agency now in the history of the Republic in the
form of ICE, and this deportation regime that is now
even before the funds start flowing down, already terrorizing American communities.
For the first time in US history, we have National
(06:58):
Guard troops from one state going into another state over
the opposition of that state's governor and that mayor. This
is brand new. This is not just a conservative administration.
This isn't just a Republican trifecta at the federal level
implementing conservative policies.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
That I disagree with.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
It is that. But if you talk to the authoritarian experts,
they don't describe this as just a conservative administration. They
called it breakthrough authoritarian movement that is defined by this
concentration of power in the hands of the regime and
this attack on other sources of power. So some of
this is about laws that are being passed, some of
(07:38):
this is about executive orders, but a lot of it
is about bullying all other sources of power in this country.
That means law firms, that means universities, that means media institutions,
and the goal of some kind of big show of
people power force is to one send a message to
those institutions that no, no, no, this period that we're
(08:00):
in is a temporary period. This is not the Trump era.
We are going to see democracy reassy itself. So you
shouldn't capitulate Disney or Spotify or Paul Weiss Law Firm
or Columbia University because there are going to be consequences
and that people are going to bring those consequences. That's
goal one, and goal too is to recruit a lot
of people into the work. A one day protest is
(08:22):
a one day protest. It is a tactic, but you
do not successfully push back against authoritarian overreach with just
a one day tactic. You have to build and that's
supported by all the research that's been done on resisting
authoritary regimes worldwide.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
So it's interesting that organizations that you just brought up
there that you want to send the message to were
the businesses, the universities, not like Republican senators who you
want to vote against. More money for ice or something
like that.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
Well, I think that's part of it too, But we
have to recognize this fight is not only playing out
in Congress. It's partly playing out in Congress, but a
lot of it's playing on in the States, and a
lot of it's playing outside of the political realm. Again,
I think Disney, Kimmel ABC are an excellent case study
of what movement power can do. It was a situation
which the regime bullied this institution. This institution immediately capitulated,
(09:16):
pulled Kimmel off the air. That people rebelled, They organized
one point seven million people canceled their Disney Plus subscriptions.
We had protests outside of Burbank Disney and Burbank and
ABC in New York. And then that institution saw that
pressure and reverse course, and as a result of that,
democracy stood up a little bit stronger. It wasn't just
about Disney. It was about sending a message to all
(09:37):
of the institutions that might feel the pressure from this
regime and think, oh, it's maybe not the smart thing
just to immediately capitulate. That's one target of pressure right now,
But another target is we're in the middle of a
shutdown right now, it's quickly becoming one of the longest
shutdowns in American history, and that's because Republicans are trying
(09:58):
to jack up everybody healthcare premiums and to close rural hospitals.
And the big question right now is do the Republicans fracture,
do they give in to the demands or do the
Democrats fracture first. And so we're both strengthening Democratic spines
to maintain their position, and we're also showing the Republicans
that again, this period is temporary. The people are not
(10:19):
going to stand for it, and they should be looking
ahead to the next election, to the next demonstration of people, Bauer,
because it's coming for them if they don't get back
in love.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Now, when you mentioned recruitment, that this is about recruiting
people to be part of this movement, what kind of
information about people at the rallies was being collected? I
remember back to like Obama in two thousand and eight
in his first campaign for president. One of the things
they did was every time anyone went to an Obama rally,
(10:48):
they would get all their information, get their email addresses
and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Was that happening at the No Kings.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Some of it was happy in No Kings. But this
is why our model of organizing is not, you know,
get on our email and get on our text message
lists so that we can ask you for money down
the line. I think that burns people out. I think
the real magic of what's Happy now is on the
ground local organizing. So we work with about twenty four
hundred local indivisible groups all around the country. And you
(11:15):
can look Google image search indivisible logo. You will see
indivisible Nationals logo and that's great and I'm proud of it,
and we do work with the local groups. But more
importantly you will see literally hundreds of local indivisible group logos,
all lovingly created by the folks who own, operate lead
those groups on the ground. And what we recommend it
to our local indivisible groups is go to these No
(11:37):
Kings rally and recruit for your local organizing. Get them
into your communities. This is not going to be solved
by somebody at the national level fixing it all. The
only solution known to successfully push back against authoritarian and
overreach is people getting in the game, treating democracy not
as something we consume but something that we do It's
(11:58):
important that folks stop doom scrolling, stop just watching the news,
and actually be active participants, because if we do that,
we got the power. That's just called an organizing challenge.
It's an organizing challenge. But the way to solve an
organizing challenge best is not just through big national organizations
soaking up the energy and then emailing or texting them.
(12:19):
It's through normal, everyday people being the leaders and driving
this forward. I think that's what that's what's going to work,
and that's what we encourage our folks to do on
the ground.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
I just wonder, is there's something more powerful to you
about all of these people going out in the real
world into these rallies versus if, like you had seven
million people according to the estimates across the country versus
seventy million people posting on their social media. Do you
like it better when the people are out there in
(12:47):
person versus what people have done in protests in the past.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
It is not close. I would rather that than seven
hundred million people online posting to Twitter or posting the
blue sky I look dig Organizing should be a spice
that we add to the real world organizing. It should
not be the central way that we show up. That's
just not how the political ecosystem and the broader cultural
(13:12):
ecosystem shift. It is not. The power that we have
when we physically come together in person is so much
greater than the power of people just idly posting online somewhere,
because it demonstrates that people are actually willing to do
something real, and it forms bonds between people that look,
the entire techno fascist ecosystem is set up to destroy.
(13:36):
They are trying to make us solitary, individual, isolated people
so that they can force us to consume what they
give to us. The one thing that any authoritarian regime
is scared of is real connections between people because they
want you to feel alone. They want you to feel powerless,
(13:57):
because if you are alone, if you are powerless in
your own eyes, then they can run rough shot over you.
So the work that we do is really it's quite
old fashioned. And I mean old fashioned, not just decades ago.
I'm saying for two hundred thousand years, Homo sapiens have
been gathering together in small groups to protect each other
from the saber tooth tigers. We are the descendants of
(14:20):
people who gathered together in person and we happen to
have set up a constitutional republic that divides power geographically.
So my number one recommendation of people who are feeling
depressed or feeling anxious about the environment is not to say,
don't worry, it's going to be fine. And it's not
to say go sign that online petition or go donate
to that organization. It's find your community. That's where your
(14:41):
safety is, that's where your power is. And I would
love it if it's indivisible. It doesn't have to be indivisible, though,
there are a lot of great local organizing communities that
you can be part of. Find the one that makes
sense for you and build power there.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
We'll stay with us because in a moment we're going
to talk about where No Kings goes from here. One
Thing Trump did with Indivisible co execut kive director Ezra
Levin will be right back. Welcome back to One Thing
(15:18):
Trump did exclusively on the Middle podcast feed. I'm Jeremy Hobson.
This episode, we're talking about the future of the No
King's movement. I'm joined by Ezra Levin, who's one of
the executive directors of Indivisible, that's an advocacy group behind
the rallies, Ezra, what do you make of the response
from the White House saying repeatedly to media organizations when
(15:38):
they asked about the no Kings protests, who cares?
Speaker 4 (15:42):
It seems like Donald Trump cared, as you mentioned he
and you said it more eloquently. The brown the brown
waste that was dropped on peaceful protests.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Allowed, by the way, I'm allowed to say because this
is a podcast and this isn't going on the broadcast radio.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
It was shit. He was dropping shit on the protesters.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
Okay, that's right. So Trump was clearly frustrated by it.
Trump has always been obsessed with crowds. Of the idea
that he responded, His response was small crowds for the
largest peaceful protests in American history. You can tell they're
concerned about it. And look, they're between a rock and
a hard plaze. Trump's approval ratings are diminishing. The Republicans
(16:18):
are currently shutting down the government in order to implement
a deeply, deeply unpopular policy, and at the same time,
they've got a burgeoning, growing, historic grassroots movement of peaceful
protesters who they very much would like to not exist
because what it demonstrates is that their grip on power
is not tightening, it's losing. What it demonstrates is that
(16:40):
that people aren't putting up with us, So they spent
it's been funny to watch the last few weeks of
this because they spent the first the couple weeks before
the protest talking about how we were going to be
violent Marxists out in the street, and that America was
at each other's throats and it was Trump America versus
these protesters, and it was going to be gnarly and
we should all be prepared for it. And then when
(17:00):
we had twenty seven hundred events without a single incense
of violence, they shifted messages. They said we were just weirdos,
and then they said we were old fogies. And where
they have settled is we don't actually exist. It's not real.
It never happened, because they can't deal with the painful
reality that people are actually fed up with what this
regime is doing that is such a threat to their
(17:23):
political goals that they would prefer to propagandaze that it
never happened. So you know, first they ignore you, then
they laugh yea, then they fight you, then you win
that's the same. They're not ignoring us anymore, they're not
laughing us. They're fighting back directly. And I take that
as a compliment. It's the best compliment they could give us.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Well, and one very conservative Republican Senator Ted Cruz did say, quote,
there's a lot of energy, there's a lot of anger
on the left, and the elections can be dangerous when
one side is mobilized, is angry. He was telling his
fellow Republicans not to just belittle the No King's rallies.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Basically, look, we took a lot of inspiration from the
Tea Party, not because I agreed with their racism or
their violence or their political ideology, but gosh, they knew
how to organize, They knew how to create energy, they
knew how to focus on their elected officials, and they
knew how to translate local anger from protests into electoral power.
I don't think this means waiting just until next year
(18:19):
in the midterms. Gosh, we're a week away from elections
in Pennsylvania and Virginia and New Jersey and California. I
don't think we're gonna have to wait that long to
see the electoral impact of the No Kings Day protests.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Now, the other thing that the Trump administration said about
the No Kings protest was that you were funded by
George Soros, And in fact, your organization has received a
multimillion dollar grant from Soros's Open Side Foundation. Not that
there's anything wrong with that, but what do you say
when Trump links you to Soros?
Speaker 4 (18:48):
Well, they have to say we're funded by George Srris
because they can't say the Jews are doing this. But
that's what they mean. It's a very thinly veiled anti
semitic attack on people who are peacefully organizing. We've been
very public that we've received money from OSF Open Society Foundation,
and we're proud to receive it. They support pro democracy
efforts all around the globe. One of the funny stories
is we've been attacked as sores funded protesters since we
(19:11):
were a Google doc, since before we had any employees,
when we were supporting the volunteers with free pizza, and
the way that I actually got introduced into the Open
Society Foundation. I was speaking at some event shortly after
Indivisible as founded nine or so years ago about the
grassroots energy that was popping up in opposition to Trump
one and after the event, some guy came up to
(19:33):
me and said, Hey, I just wanted to introduce myself
because apparently we're funding everything you're doing. And it was
a guy from Open Society Foundation. So this is a
standard line of attack that they've used against us and
other folks who are peacefully protesting and organizing. I would
say I think it's an ineffective line of attack because
if there's one thing that you don't want to do,
it's tell protesters that they're AstroTurf and paid by some
(19:56):
outside entity. It just makes them matter and gets them
to deal down on their organizing. So this was part
of the impact of the attacks that we're coming. In
the week's leading up to No Kings protests, they were
saying that we were sores funded astro turf. They were
saying that we were violent Marxists, and the people organizing
were like, what the heck are you talking about, And
it just caused them to recruit more and organize more
(20:16):
and turn it into the largest peaceful protests in American history.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
So I was reading about what might be next and
some of the organizers, and again Indivisible is just one
of the groups that's involved in these protests, But some
of the organizers are saying going forward there should be
targeted boycott's campaigns at universities, more street protests, and electoral
organizing in local communities. What can you tell us about
what is next for no Kings?
Speaker 4 (20:41):
I agree with all the above. Look, one of the
hallmarks of an authoritarian regime is it makes you feel
really bad on a daily basis. It does a lot
of harm on a daily basis, and one of the
outcomes of that is it can demotivate people. You can
feel like, gosh, he is just getting worse. On a
weekday's basis, he is suddenly doing more and more. Is
anything we're doing impactful? Which is why our real enemy now,
(21:02):
it's not Trump, it's not the regime, it's not Republicans,
it's not you know, weak need democrats who refuse to
fight back. The enemy is fatalism and nihilism and cynicism,
this sense that we are victims of world events and
not able to actually influence them. So I think one
day protests important for busting through that bubble of inevitability,
important for recruitment, and important for getting attention. Also not
(21:25):
enough in between these one day events that need to
grow over time. We need to have targeted actions where
we express what the demands are, extract concessions, and then
move on again. Disney is a good example of that.
I think Spotify is very attractive as a following target.
They are currently running ads to recruit for ICE. This
(21:45):
is a part of a massive hiring spree that the
regime is doing to build up the secret police force,
and Spotify is running ads. They shouldn't be running ads.
Spotify has ninety percent of their revenue coming from subscriptions,
only about ten percent comes from ads. This same kind
of people power targeted on Disney could work on Spotify,
and we should try it. We should move forward and
(22:07):
try it beyond these individual institutions. Though, as I mentioned,
we've got elections to win. We live during an authoritarian
breakthrough moment, but this is still a constitutional republic. We
do still have elections and we should win them. Proposition
fifty in California is next week to push back against jerrymandering.
We've got statewide elections in Virginia and New Jersey. We've
got Supreme Court races in Pennsylvania. We should wipe the
(22:29):
floor with the authoritarians in all of those states. And
then beyond that, we're heading into a primary season, a
Democratic primary season, and I think it is very important
that we start building the Democratic Party that is unified
and fighting back and not accepting Democrats who choose a
roll over and play dead strategy. So I'm looking forward
to this primary season for the No Kings movement and
(22:51):
broader pro democracy forces to get behind those Democrats who
are willing to actually push back against the regime.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
So what do you mean by that?
Speaker 1 (22:59):
So you are going to be supporting Democrats who don't
want to play with the other side, who just like
the further left Democrats.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
That's what you're is that what you're saying.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Oh, I wouldn't. I don't think it's ideological. I do
think sometimes this gets simplified as grassroots equals the left,
but actually I think it's somewhat more complex than I
think that. The key question in politics today is not
what is your healthcare policy and is it to the
left or the center or the right, or what is
your tax policy? Is it left center right? The key
question is do you think the moment we're living through
(23:30):
is an authoritarian breakthrough moment or do you think it's
more or less politics as usual? And while more progressives
believe this is an existential crisis, there is some ideological
diversity there, and I think we should be absolutely rallying
behind the Democrats who say, no, this is a crisis
and we've got to use all the tools at our
disposal to push back. And that's important not just for
(23:53):
the kinds of policies we get implemented in the future
and the kind of oversight and reform that we support
in the future. It's important for the message we send
right now. It's important for folks who are breaking laws
and violating the Constitution to understand that not only is
it likely that Democrats win the House next year, but
the Democrats who win the House next year are committed
(24:14):
to hauling their butts in front of Congress, issuing subpoenas,
getting testimony, holding hearings so that vectors into their decision making. Now,
if we want to change the culture from one of
capitulation to one of courage, that means getting behind leaders
who are promising a future of reform and accountability. The
way you do that is not by waiting a couple
of years or waiting until the presidential race. You do
(24:36):
that by getting involved in your democratic primaries coming up.
And so I'm not going to be the guy who
says that's the person or that's the person, but I
would encourage listeners to start looking around for one or
two primary candidates. Maybe it's an open seat, Maybe it's
a challenger who really inspires you and you think could
lead in this moment, and throw in for them. Give
them your attention, give them donations, give them your support
(24:59):
however you can. Because we get the party we demand,
and if we don't demand a party that fights back,
we're going to get a party that fails us.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
When is the next No King's Rally? Do you know yet?
Speaker 4 (25:10):
There will look, there will be future mobilizations. I think
the real judge of a successful anti authoritarian movement is
not have you stopped the regime entirely. That's not going
to happen overnight. The question is one, are you bigger
than you were before?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Two?
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Are you more unified than where you were before?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Three?
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Are you doing different things? Are your tactics diversifying? And
four is the regime less popular than it was before?
So a piece of that, yes, we got to be bigger,
We went from three million to five million to seven million.
I want to hit nine million at the next one,
and it will happen. But I wouldn't just focus on
the one day mobilizations. We should also be focusing on
(25:48):
how can we use this movement energy right now, because
that will do good now and it will also help
build the movement so we can hit nine million the
next time we do one.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Is there a protest movement that you look to as
an inspiration for this?
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Oh? I mean absolutely, Obviously the civil rights movement is
in our heads. But I think you can look internationally too,
outbore the protest movement that took down Slobanon Melosovich, that
aim to make protests so normal and so fun and
so inviting that people just did it in mass I
think we need to be creating communities that are welcoming
(26:23):
to people. We need to be saying it's not the
end of the world. If you weren't here with us
a year ago or six months ago, or if you
just joined us this week. The important thing is you're
here now and we have a place for you. The
regime wants everybody to be scared and alone, and so
we win by making people feel both their power and
their joy to participate in this work. And I think
if you looked out over those protests a couple saturdays ago,
(26:44):
while the regime was predicting violence and mayhem, what people
saw were college students and grandparents and grandkids and dogs
and funny signs and laughing and dancing. It was a
display of power because it was the largest peaceful protest
in American history. But it was also display of joy,
and I think both of those things are really important
to hold on to well.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
And one thing that we didn't see, just finally was
national Guard troops in places clashing with protesters. Were you
surprised by that that there was none of that?
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Look, we planned for the worst and we hope for
the best, and we got the best. It was not
for lack of trying that the regime that we didn't
see this. So the regime mobilized national Guard troops in
some places. My favorite response that I heard was the
Texas governor did this, and the Austin leaders of No
King said, great, we hope the National Guard troops enjoy
(27:34):
our music and dancing. That was the basic response. So
I would say part of why we didn't see any
kind of conflagration was one the kinds of people who
were putting this on they're not looking for it. The
No Kings protesters are not looking for violence. Nonviolence is
core to everything we're doing because that's how you build
a big movement, that's how you actually invite people in.
If you engage in violence, you're going to alienate people.
(27:56):
I think it's wrong regardless, but you're also going to
alienate people. But two, we also put a ton of
work into safety and d escalation. We trained literally tens
of thousands of volunteers on safety and the escalation held
I don't know how many trainings to do that, And
every single one of the twenty seven hundred events on
the map had a safety lead and a safety plan.
If you didn't have that, you were off the map.
(28:17):
So I think we got to take safety seriously because
if you don't make these safe, you don't encourage people
to come. If you don't encourage people to come, you're
not going to win.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Was there one rally that like just really made you proud?
When you look at, you know, some small town somewhere,
you're like, Wow, I can't believe that that many people
showed up.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
There so I was in DC. There were two hundred
thousand people out there, and it's a site to see
to see two hundred thousand people come out. Of course,
DC is occupied territory right now, with the National Guard
out and isations terrorizing the communities. But I'm from rural Texas.
I'm from small town in Texas, Butta Texas and Buta
Texas in Hayes County. It's between San Antonio and Austin.
(28:55):
There were three No Kings protests in Hayes County, Texas,
where I grew up. But when I looked at the
list of events all across the country, the small town
of Jenner, California, population of one hundred and twenty two
had a No King's protest. I do think that's the
real power. I think in media you often see enormous
crowds like in a DC or Chicago or New York
(29:15):
and LA. And don't get me wrong, that looks impressed
with Alex Nyck's. But being a guy from a red
state and a rural town, the thing that really encourages
me is this isn't just blue states, This isn't just
city centers. This is the fifteen protests in Alaska the
protests on every island, including four on the Big Island
in Hawaii and a place like Jenner, California, where people
(29:36):
might think of themselves as being in Trump Country or
in a Republican district or in a rural area, and
they might think they're isolated there's nobody that agrees with them.
But this was a chance for them to actually find
those people who do indeed agree with them, who do
not want a king in this country. And that connectivity. God,
that was good on the day. Obviously, I love seeing
(29:56):
it on the day, but I am excited to see
what comes out of those connect That.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Is Ezra Levin, who is the co executive director of Indivisible,
one of the groups behind the No Kings protests.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Ezra, thanks so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Hey, great talking and thanks you for.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Listening to One thing Trump did. It was produced this
week by Brandon Condritz. Our next middle episode is coming
to your podcast feed later this week. It is an
amazing live show we recorded in New Hampshire in partnership
with New Hampshire Public Radio. Don't miss it and please
rate this podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Our theme
music was composed by Noah Haidu. I'm Jeremy Hobson. I'll
talk to you soon.
Welcome to one thing Trump did, available exclusively on the
Middle podcast feed. I'm Jeremy Hobson, and this week we're
looking at one of the biggest movements pushing back against
the Trump administration. That would be No Kings. Two weeks ago,
nearly seven million people rallied against what organizers called Trump's
authoritarian control. The protests were largely peaceful, with big gatherings
(00:38):
in Times Square and downtown Chicago and smaller ones outside
of town halls across the country. Organizers say there were
twenty six hundred separate events in all fifty states in
the week leading up to No King's Day. Republican leaders,
including the House Speaker Mike Johnson, called the planned demonstrations
un American reporters asked Trump what he thought aboard Air
(01:02):
Force One the day after, and here's what he said.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
The demonstrations were very small, very ineffective, and the people
who were worked out. When you look at those people,
those are not representative of the people of our country
beside San Francisco. And I'm not a king. I'm not
a king. I work my ass off to make our
country great, that's all it is. I'm not a king
at all.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
The president also voiced his disapproval on social media, even
posting an AI generated video of him wearing a crown
and flying a plane that's dropping brown waste on protesters.
So where does the No King's movement go from here?
And what are its goals? That is the subject of
this week's One Thing Trump Did. I'm joined by Ezra Levin,
who is the co founder and co executive director of Indivisible,
(01:45):
that's one of the key organizations behind No Kings.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Ezra, great to have you here, Hey, great to be talking. Well.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
First off, when we decided to do this interview, we
went to look at who was behind the No Kings rallies,
and Indivisible is just one of many organizations.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Since who is behind No Kings?
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Well, fundamentally, the folks behind No Kings are normal, everyday
people on the ground. You don't get twenty seven hundred
events globally with some kind of top down structure. So
these are folks who are nurses and IT technicians and
teachers and waiters. There are people in the community, and
these are in red states, Blue states, purple states, rural communities,
suburban communies, urban communities. I mean, gosh, we were in
(02:23):
every single congressional district in the country. You don't get
there with any kind of national approach. And also there
were a lot of organizations involved. So the No King's
Coalition included Indivisible, but there were about three hundred different
organizations that include unions like American Federation of Teachers and SCIU,
includes other people, mover groups, organizing groups like fifty to
(02:46):
fifty one or move On or Working Families Party, includes
good government groups like the ACLU, and Public Citizens. So
there are a lot of organizational leaders. But I think
that the beating heart of this movement is the American people.
I mean that's who out there actually doing it. Every
single one of those twenty seven hundred events on the map,
there's somebody behind that. There's somebody in that community said, ah,
I got to do something. And what they did is
(03:08):
they got together their Indivisible group where they got together
they're no Kings protest and they led it.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
How do the groups, though, the organizations like Indivisible and
ACLU and all these other groups, how did they coordinate?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Is there a meeting, who's in charge? Who runs it?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
There is a meeting there, I mean, there are mini meetings,
any kind of big coalition like this. What you're going
to see is there are meetings, and there are group chats,
and there are slacks to coordinate everybody on a regular basis.
There's a division of labor, with different organizations taking on
different pieces. So it really was an enormous group effort.
You don't get to the largest peaceful protest in American
(03:43):
history without doing something like that.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
And this was the largest peaceful protest in American history.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
That's right. I mean more than seven million people at
twenty seven hundred events. Put it in perspective, the largest
protest of the first Trump term, which was powerful and
pactful and inspiring, was the Families Belong Together protests. If
you remember this early twenty eighteen, they're about seven hundred
and fifty events nationwide. That was roughly the scale of
the Women's March in early twenty seventeen, which was enormous
(04:09):
and inspired and impactful itself. This was twenty seven hundred events,
not double, not tripled, nearly quadruple the size of the
one before that. It also is worth noting it didn't
come out of nowhere. In April, we held the Hands
Off rallies and that was about thirteen hundred events, about
three million people. In June on Donald Trump's birthday when
he had the military parade, we held the first No
(04:31):
King's Day and that was about five million people at
twenty one hundred events. So we've gone from three million
to five million to seven million. Three of the five
or so largest protests in American history have occurred this
year against this regime.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Are you worried when you get all these groups together
that have different aims some of them, that the message
becomes a little bit muddled. I saw a part of
a rally, the big one that happened on Boston Common
Do on No King's Day, and there were chants by
one person on a stage of free Palestine, which as
far as I know, is not one of the state
admissions of No Kings Sin.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
There's a quote that I've heard from I think it
was Moon mitral Overt working Familis Party that has just
been ringing in my ears ever since he said it,
and it's that in a moment like this, when you're
fighting for democracy, when you're organizing against authoritarian and overreach,
if you're organizing in a room where everybody agrees on everything,
your room is too small, you need to be finding
(05:27):
a bigger room. So I think it's one of the
strengths of the No King's movement that it is ideologically diverse,
that is geographically dispersed, and that everybody doesn't agree on
every single thing. What they agree on, though, is foundational,
foundational to the founding of the country. That we don't
do kings in this country. That we aren't going to
put up with monarchical rule that is shown in cities
(05:51):
being invaded and occupied by this regime, by a secret
police force that is terrorizing American communities, by an administration
that is disregarding the constitution and our laws in order
to impose its will. We can disagree on education policy,
on foreign policy, on tax policy. I look forward to
those disagreements. But if we're not able to ensure that
(06:12):
democracy reasserts itself, we're not going to be able to
have those disagreements. So I think it's actually a strength
that we have a wide range of voices getting behind
this one basic demand.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
But what is the demand?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
What is it that you want to accomplish As a result,
it's a show of force, certainly to have all these
people all across the country in large and small towns.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
But what is it that you want to happen.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Well, I want an end to the illegal and unconstitutional
behavior from this regime. So I mentioned some of the
things they're doing. We have the largest federal law enforcement
agency now in the history of the Republic in the
form of ICE, and this deportation regime that is now
even before the funds start flowing down, already terrorizing American communities.
For the first time in US history, we have National
(06:58):
Guard troops from one state going into another state over
the opposition of that state's governor and that mayor. This
is brand new. This is not just a conservative administration.
This isn't just a Republican trifecta at the federal level
implementing conservative policies.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
That I disagree with.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
It is that. But if you talk to the authoritarian experts,
they don't describe this as just a conservative administration. They
called it breakthrough authoritarian movement that is defined by this
concentration of power in the hands of the regime and
this attack on other sources of power. So some of
this is about laws that are being passed, some of
(07:38):
this is about executive orders, but a lot of it
is about bullying all other sources of power in this country.
That means law firms, that means universities, that means media institutions,
and the goal of some kind of big show of
people power force is to one send a message to
those institutions that no, no, no, this period that we're
(08:00):
in is a temporary period. This is not the Trump era.
We are going to see democracy reassy itself. So you
shouldn't capitulate Disney or Spotify or Paul Weiss Law Firm
or Columbia University because there are going to be consequences
and that people are going to bring those consequences. That's
goal one, and goal too is to recruit a lot
of people into the work. A one day protest is
(08:22):
a one day protest. It is a tactic, but you
do not successfully push back against authoritarian overreach with just
a one day tactic. You have to build and that's
supported by all the research that's been done on resisting
authoritary regimes worldwide.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
So it's interesting that organizations that you just brought up
there that you want to send the message to were
the businesses, the universities, not like Republican senators who you
want to vote against. More money for ice or something
like that.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
Well, I think that's part of it too, But we
have to recognize this fight is not only playing out
in Congress. It's partly playing out in Congress, but a
lot of it's playing on in the States, and a
lot of it's playing outside of the political realm. Again,
I think Disney, Kimmel ABC are an excellent case study
of what movement power can do. It was a situation
which the regime bullied this institution. This institution immediately capitulated,
(09:16):
pulled Kimmel off the air. That people rebelled, They organized
one point seven million people canceled their Disney Plus subscriptions.
We had protests outside of Burbank Disney and Burbank and
ABC in New York. And then that institution saw that
pressure and reverse course, and as a result of that,
democracy stood up a little bit stronger. It wasn't just
about Disney. It was about sending a message to all
(09:37):
of the institutions that might feel the pressure from this
regime and think, oh, it's maybe not the smart thing
just to immediately capitulate. That's one target of pressure right now,
But another target is we're in the middle of a
shutdown right now, it's quickly becoming one of the longest
shutdowns in American history, and that's because Republicans are trying
(09:58):
to jack up everybody healthcare premiums and to close rural hospitals.
And the big question right now is do the Republicans fracture,
do they give in to the demands or do the
Democrats fracture first. And so we're both strengthening Democratic spines
to maintain their position, and we're also showing the Republicans
that again, this period is temporary. The people are not
(10:19):
going to stand for it, and they should be looking
ahead to the next election, to the next demonstration of people, Bauer,
because it's coming for them if they don't get back
in love.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Now, when you mentioned recruitment, that this is about recruiting
people to be part of this movement, what kind of
information about people at the rallies was being collected? I
remember back to like Obama in two thousand and eight
in his first campaign for president. One of the things
they did was every time anyone went to an Obama rally,
(10:48):
they would get all their information, get their email addresses
and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Was that happening at the No Kings.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Some of it was happy in No Kings. But this
is why our model of organizing is not, you know,
get on our email and get on our text message
lists so that we can ask you for money down
the line. I think that burns people out. I think
the real magic of what's Happy now is on the
ground local organizing. So we work with about twenty four
hundred local indivisible groups all around the country. And you
(11:15):
can look Google image search indivisible logo. You will see
indivisible Nationals logo and that's great and I'm proud of it,
and we do work with the local groups. But more
importantly you will see literally hundreds of local indivisible group logos,
all lovingly created by the folks who own, operate lead
those groups on the ground. And what we recommend it
to our local indivisible groups is go to these No
(11:37):
Kings rally and recruit for your local organizing. Get them
into your communities. This is not going to be solved
by somebody at the national level fixing it all. The
only solution known to successfully push back against authoritarian and
overreach is people getting in the game, treating democracy not
as something we consume but something that we do It's
(11:58):
important that folks stop doom scrolling, stop just watching the news,
and actually be active participants, because if we do that,
we got the power. That's just called an organizing challenge.
It's an organizing challenge. But the way to solve an
organizing challenge best is not just through big national organizations
soaking up the energy and then emailing or texting them.
(12:19):
It's through normal, everyday people being the leaders and driving
this forward. I think that's what that's what's going to work,
and that's what we encourage our folks to do on
the ground.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
I just wonder, is there's something more powerful to you
about all of these people going out in the real
world into these rallies versus if, like you had seven
million people according to the estimates across the country versus
seventy million people posting on their social media. Do you
like it better when the people are out there in
(12:47):
person versus what people have done in protests in the past.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
It is not close. I would rather that than seven
hundred million people online posting to Twitter or posting the
blue sky I look dig Organizing should be a spice
that we add to the real world organizing. It should
not be the central way that we show up. That's
just not how the political ecosystem and the broader cultural
(13:12):
ecosystem shift. It is not. The power that we have
when we physically come together in person is so much
greater than the power of people just idly posting online somewhere,
because it demonstrates that people are actually willing to do
something real, and it forms bonds between people that look,
the entire techno fascist ecosystem is set up to destroy.
(13:36):
They are trying to make us solitary, individual, isolated people
so that they can force us to consume what they
give to us. The one thing that any authoritarian regime
is scared of is real connections between people because they
want you to feel alone. They want you to feel powerless,
(13:57):
because if you are alone, if you are powerless in
your own eyes, then they can run rough shot over you.
So the work that we do is really it's quite
old fashioned. And I mean old fashioned, not just decades ago.
I'm saying for two hundred thousand years, Homo sapiens have
been gathering together in small groups to protect each other
from the saber tooth tigers. We are the descendants of
(14:20):
people who gathered together in person and we happen to
have set up a constitutional republic that divides power geographically.
So my number one recommendation of people who are feeling
depressed or feeling anxious about the environment is not to say,
don't worry, it's going to be fine. And it's not
to say go sign that online petition or go donate
to that organization. It's find your community. That's where your
(14:41):
safety is, that's where your power is. And I would
love it if it's indivisible. It doesn't have to be indivisible, though,
there are a lot of great local organizing communities that
you can be part of. Find the one that makes
sense for you and build power there.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
We'll stay with us because in a moment we're going
to talk about where No Kings goes from here. One
Thing Trump did with Indivisible co execut kive director Ezra
Levin will be right back. Welcome back to One Thing
(15:18):
Trump did exclusively on the Middle podcast feed. I'm Jeremy Hobson.
This episode, we're talking about the future of the No
King's movement. I'm joined by Ezra Levin, who's one of
the executive directors of Indivisible, that's an advocacy group behind
the rallies, Ezra, what do you make of the response
from the White House saying repeatedly to media organizations when
(15:38):
they asked about the no Kings protests, who cares?
Speaker 4 (15:42):
It seems like Donald Trump cared, as you mentioned he
and you said it more eloquently. The brown the brown
waste that was dropped on peaceful protests.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Allowed, by the way, I'm allowed to say because this
is a podcast and this isn't going on the broadcast radio.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
It was shit. He was dropping shit on the protesters.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
Okay, that's right. So Trump was clearly frustrated by it.
Trump has always been obsessed with crowds. Of the idea
that he responded, His response was small crowds for the
largest peaceful protests in American history. You can tell they're
concerned about it. And look, they're between a rock and
a hard plaze. Trump's approval ratings are diminishing. The Republicans
(16:18):
are currently shutting down the government in order to implement
a deeply, deeply unpopular policy, and at the same time,
they've got a burgeoning, growing, historic grassroots movement of peaceful
protesters who they very much would like to not exist
because what it demonstrates is that their grip on power
is not tightening, it's losing. What it demonstrates is that
(16:40):
that people aren't putting up with us, So they spent
it's been funny to watch the last few weeks of
this because they spent the first the couple weeks before
the protest talking about how we were going to be
violent Marxists out in the street, and that America was
at each other's throats and it was Trump America versus
these protesters, and it was going to be gnarly and
we should all be prepared for it. And then when
(17:00):
we had twenty seven hundred events without a single incense
of violence, they shifted messages. They said we were just weirdos,
and then they said we were old fogies. And where
they have settled is we don't actually exist. It's not real.
It never happened, because they can't deal with the painful
reality that people are actually fed up with what this
regime is doing that is such a threat to their
(17:23):
political goals that they would prefer to propagandaze that it
never happened. So you know, first they ignore you, then
they laugh yea, then they fight you, then you win
that's the same. They're not ignoring us anymore, they're not
laughing us. They're fighting back directly. And I take that
as a compliment. It's the best compliment they could give us.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Well, and one very conservative Republican Senator Ted Cruz did say, quote,
there's a lot of energy, there's a lot of anger
on the left, and the elections can be dangerous when
one side is mobilized, is angry. He was telling his
fellow Republicans not to just belittle the No King's rallies.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Basically, look, we took a lot of inspiration from the
Tea Party, not because I agreed with their racism or
their violence or their political ideology, but gosh, they knew
how to organize, They knew how to create energy, they
knew how to focus on their elected officials, and they
knew how to translate local anger from protests into electoral power.
I don't think this means waiting just until next year
(18:19):
in the midterms. Gosh, we're a week away from elections
in Pennsylvania and Virginia and New Jersey and California. I
don't think we're gonna have to wait that long to
see the electoral impact of the No Kings Day protests.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Now, the other thing that the Trump administration said about
the No Kings protest was that you were funded by
George Soros, And in fact, your organization has received a
multimillion dollar grant from Soros's Open Side Foundation. Not that
there's anything wrong with that, but what do you say
when Trump links you to Soros?
Speaker 4 (18:48):
Well, they have to say we're funded by George Srris
because they can't say the Jews are doing this. But
that's what they mean. It's a very thinly veiled anti
semitic attack on people who are peacefully organizing. We've been
very public that we've received money from OSF Open Society Foundation,
and we're proud to receive it. They support pro democracy
efforts all around the globe. One of the funny stories
is we've been attacked as sores funded protesters since we
(19:11):
were a Google doc, since before we had any employees,
when we were supporting the volunteers with free pizza, and
the way that I actually got introduced into the Open
Society Foundation. I was speaking at some event shortly after
Indivisible as founded nine or so years ago about the
grassroots energy that was popping up in opposition to Trump
one and after the event, some guy came up to
(19:33):
me and said, Hey, I just wanted to introduce myself
because apparently we're funding everything you're doing. And it was
a guy from Open Society Foundation. So this is a
standard line of attack that they've used against us and
other folks who are peacefully protesting and organizing. I would
say I think it's an ineffective line of attack because
if there's one thing that you don't want to do,
it's tell protesters that they're AstroTurf and paid by some
(19:56):
outside entity. It just makes them matter and gets them
to deal down on their organizing. So this was part
of the impact of the attacks that we're coming. In
the week's leading up to No Kings protests, they were
saying that we were sores funded astro turf. They were
saying that we were violent Marxists, and the people organizing
were like, what the heck are you talking about, And
it just caused them to recruit more and organize more
(20:16):
and turn it into the largest peaceful protests in American history.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
So I was reading about what might be next and
some of the organizers, and again Indivisible is just one
of the groups that's involved in these protests, But some
of the organizers are saying going forward there should be
targeted boycott's campaigns at universities, more street protests, and electoral
organizing in local communities. What can you tell us about
what is next for no Kings?
Speaker 4 (20:41):
I agree with all the above. Look, one of the
hallmarks of an authoritarian regime is it makes you feel
really bad on a daily basis. It does a lot
of harm on a daily basis, and one of the
outcomes of that is it can demotivate people. You can
feel like, gosh, he is just getting worse. On a
weekday's basis, he is suddenly doing more and more. Is
anything we're doing impactful? Which is why our real enemy now,
(21:02):
it's not Trump, it's not the regime, it's not Republicans,
it's not you know, weak need democrats who refuse to
fight back. The enemy is fatalism and nihilism and cynicism,
this sense that we are victims of world events and
not able to actually influence them. So I think one
day protests important for busting through that bubble of inevitability,
important for recruitment, and important for getting attention. Also not
(21:25):
enough in between these one day events that need to
grow over time. We need to have targeted actions where
we express what the demands are, extract concessions, and then
move on again. Disney is a good example of that.
I think Spotify is very attractive as a following target.
They are currently running ads to recruit for ICE. This
(21:45):
is a part of a massive hiring spree that the
regime is doing to build up the secret police force,
and Spotify is running ads. They shouldn't be running ads.
Spotify has ninety percent of their revenue coming from subscriptions,
only about ten percent comes from ads. This same kind
of people power targeted on Disney could work on Spotify,
and we should try it. We should move forward and
(22:07):
try it beyond these individual institutions. Though, as I mentioned,
we've got elections to win. We live during an authoritarian
breakthrough moment, but this is still a constitutional republic. We
do still have elections and we should win them. Proposition
fifty in California is next week to push back against jerrymandering.
We've got statewide elections in Virginia and New Jersey. We've
got Supreme Court races in Pennsylvania. We should wipe the
(22:29):
floor with the authoritarians in all of those states. And
then beyond that, we're heading into a primary season, a
Democratic primary season, and I think it is very important
that we start building the Democratic Party that is unified
and fighting back and not accepting Democrats who choose a
roll over and play dead strategy. So I'm looking forward
to this primary season for the No Kings movement and
(22:51):
broader pro democracy forces to get behind those Democrats who
are willing to actually push back against the regime.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
So what do you mean by that?
Speaker 1 (22:59):
So you are going to be supporting Democrats who don't
want to play with the other side, who just like
the further left Democrats.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
That's what you're is that what you're saying.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Oh, I wouldn't. I don't think it's ideological. I do
think sometimes this gets simplified as grassroots equals the left,
but actually I think it's somewhat more complex than I
think that. The key question in politics today is not
what is your healthcare policy and is it to the
left or the center or the right, or what is
your tax policy? Is it left center right? The key
question is do you think the moment we're living through
(23:30):
is an authoritarian breakthrough moment or do you think it's
more or less politics as usual? And while more progressives
believe this is an existential crisis, there is some ideological
diversity there, and I think we should be absolutely rallying
behind the Democrats who say, no, this is a crisis
and we've got to use all the tools at our
disposal to push back. And that's important not just for
(23:53):
the kinds of policies we get implemented in the future
and the kind of oversight and reform that we support
in the future. It's important for the message we send
right now. It's important for folks who are breaking laws
and violating the Constitution to understand that not only is
it likely that Democrats win the House next year, but
the Democrats who win the House next year are committed
(24:14):
to hauling their butts in front of Congress, issuing subpoenas,
getting testimony, holding hearings so that vectors into their decision making. Now,
if we want to change the culture from one of
capitulation to one of courage, that means getting behind leaders
who are promising a future of reform and accountability. The
way you do that is not by waiting a couple
of years or waiting until the presidential race. You do
(24:36):
that by getting involved in your democratic primaries coming up.
And so I'm not going to be the guy who
says that's the person or that's the person, but I
would encourage listeners to start looking around for one or
two primary candidates. Maybe it's an open seat, Maybe it's
a challenger who really inspires you and you think could
lead in this moment, and throw in for them. Give
them your attention, give them donations, give them your support
(24:59):
however you can. Because we get the party we demand,
and if we don't demand a party that fights back,
we're going to get a party that fails us.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
When is the next No King's Rally? Do you know yet?
Speaker 4 (25:10):
There will look, there will be future mobilizations. I think
the real judge of a successful anti authoritarian movement is
not have you stopped the regime entirely. That's not going
to happen overnight. The question is one, are you bigger
than you were before?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Two?
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Are you more unified than where you were before?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Three?
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Are you doing different things? Are your tactics diversifying? And
four is the regime less popular than it was before?
So a piece of that, yes, we got to be bigger,
We went from three million to five million to seven million.
I want to hit nine million at the next one,
and it will happen. But I wouldn't just focus on
the one day mobilizations. We should also be focusing on
(25:48):
how can we use this movement energy right now, because
that will do good now and it will also help
build the movement so we can hit nine million the
next time we do one.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Is there a protest movement that you look to as
an inspiration for this?
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Oh? I mean absolutely, Obviously the civil rights movement is
in our heads. But I think you can look internationally too,
outbore the protest movement that took down Slobanon Melosovich, that
aim to make protests so normal and so fun and
so inviting that people just did it in mass I
think we need to be creating communities that are welcoming
(26:23):
to people. We need to be saying it's not the
end of the world. If you weren't here with us
a year ago or six months ago, or if you
just joined us this week. The important thing is you're
here now and we have a place for you. The
regime wants everybody to be scared and alone, and so
we win by making people feel both their power and
their joy to participate in this work. And I think
if you looked out over those protests a couple saturdays ago,
(26:44):
while the regime was predicting violence and mayhem, what people
saw were college students and grandparents and grandkids and dogs
and funny signs and laughing and dancing. It was a
display of power because it was the largest peaceful protest
in American history. But it was also display of joy,
and I think both of those things are really important
to hold on to well.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
And one thing that we didn't see, just finally was
national Guard troops in places clashing with protesters. Were you
surprised by that that there was none of that?
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Look, we planned for the worst and we hope for
the best, and we got the best. It was not
for lack of trying that the regime that we didn't
see this. So the regime mobilized national Guard troops in
some places. My favorite response that I heard was the
Texas governor did this, and the Austin leaders of No
King said, great, we hope the National Guard troops enjoy
(27:34):
our music and dancing. That was the basic response. So
I would say part of why we didn't see any
kind of conflagration was one the kinds of people who
were putting this on they're not looking for it. The
No Kings protesters are not looking for violence. Nonviolence is
core to everything we're doing because that's how you build
a big movement, that's how you actually invite people in.
If you engage in violence, you're going to alienate people.
(27:56):
I think it's wrong regardless, but you're also going to
alienate people. But two, we also put a ton of
work into safety and d escalation. We trained literally tens
of thousands of volunteers on safety and the escalation held
I don't know how many trainings to do that, And
every single one of the twenty seven hundred events on
the map had a safety lead and a safety plan.
If you didn't have that, you were off the map.
(28:17):
So I think we got to take safety seriously because
if you don't make these safe, you don't encourage people
to come. If you don't encourage people to come, you're
not going to win.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Was there one rally that like just really made you proud?
When you look at, you know, some small town somewhere,
you're like, Wow, I can't believe that that many people
showed up.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
There so I was in DC. There were two hundred
thousand people out there, and it's a site to see
to see two hundred thousand people come out. Of course,
DC is occupied territory right now, with the National Guard
out and isations terrorizing the communities. But I'm from rural Texas.
I'm from small town in Texas, Butta Texas and Buta
Texas in Hayes County. It's between San Antonio and Austin.
(28:55):
There were three No Kings protests in Hayes County, Texas,
where I grew up. But when I looked at the
list of events all across the country, the small town
of Jenner, California, population of one hundred and twenty two
had a No King's protest. I do think that's the
real power. I think in media you often see enormous
crowds like in a DC or Chicago or New York
(29:15):
and LA. And don't get me wrong, that looks impressed
with Alex Nyck's. But being a guy from a red
state and a rural town, the thing that really encourages
me is this isn't just blue states, This isn't just
city centers. This is the fifteen protests in Alaska the
protests on every island, including four on the Big Island
in Hawaii and a place like Jenner, California, where people
(29:36):
might think of themselves as being in Trump Country or
in a Republican district or in a rural area, and
they might think they're isolated there's nobody that agrees with them.
But this was a chance for them to actually find
those people who do indeed agree with them, who do
not want a king in this country. And that connectivity. God,
that was good on the day. Obviously, I love seeing
(29:56):
it on the day, but I am excited to see
what comes out of those connect That.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Is Ezra Levin, who is the co executive director of Indivisible,
one of the groups behind the No Kings protests.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Ezra, thanks so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Hey, great talking and thanks you for.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Listening to One thing Trump did. It was produced this
week by Brandon Condritz. Our next middle episode is coming
to your podcast feed later this week. It is an
amazing live show we recorded in New Hampshire in partnership
with New Hampshire Public Radio. Don't miss it and please
rate this podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Our theme
music was composed by Noah Haidu. I'm Jeremy Hobson. I'll
talk to you soon.
Host
Jeremy Hobson
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