November 1, 2025 • 26 mins
In this episode of One Thing Trump Did, we look at New York City's race for mayor — why President Trump cares about it so much, and how Trump's relationship with the city could change if current frontrunner Zohran Mamdani, a proud democratic socialist, wins. Jeremy is joined by Michael Powell, a staff writer for The Atlantic. #NewYorkCity #NYC #Mamdani #Cuomo #Sliwa #Trump #EricAdams
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome to One Thing Trump did, available exclusively on The
Middle Podcast feed on Jeremy Hobson, and this week we
are looking at the race for New York City's next
mayor and why it matters so much to President Trump.
New York State Assemblyman Zoron Mumdani won the Democratic primary
against former Governor Andrew Cuomo back in June, and he's
(00:36):
still leading in the polls. Mom Donnie is a proud
Democratic socialist. He wants to freeze rent and stabilize apartments,
make city buses free, set up universal childcare, and open
city owned grocery stores, all in the name of making
living in New York City cheaper. Another campaign promise of
his standing up to the president listen to what he
(00:59):
had to say at a real debate with Cuomo, who's
now running as an independent, and the Republican candidate Curtis Sliwa.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I would make it clear to the President that I
am willing to not only speak to him, but to
work with him if it means delivering on lowering the
cost of living for New Yorkers. That's something that he
ran his presidential campaign on, and yet all he's been
able to deliver thus far has been prosecuting his political
enemies and trying to enact the largest deportation program in
American history. And what I tell the President is, if
(01:28):
he ever wants to come for New Yorkers in the
way that he has been, he's going to have to
get through me as the next mayor of the city.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
In the last month or so, Trump's called Mom Donnie
a communist and has threatened to cut off all federal
funds if Montdani gets elected. So why does Trump care
so much about the New York mayor's race and what
could his relationship with New York City look like if
Mom Donnie wins. That's the subject of this week's One
Thing Trump Did. And I am joined by Michael Powell,
(01:53):
who's a staff writer for The Atlantic. Michael, it's great
to have you here.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Thanks, it's great being here.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Well, let's start with the basics. For people outside of
New York City, you haven't been following this closely, give
us a little more of the bio of Mamdani.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Yeah, it's hard to overstate what a rapid rise it's been.
I mean, he a year ago was a very little
known state assemblyman from Queens, one of the boroughs of
New York and was polling and I believe one percent.
His father is a very prominent Marxist intellectual and a
(02:29):
professor at Columbia University. His mother, Mironaire, is a very
well known producer and director of films, and is well.
They're both of Indian background and had been in Uganda,
where Zoran was born. They came to this country when
(02:50):
Zoron I believe, was about seven years old. And as
I say, it's been a very rapid he's thirty four
years old. It's been a very rapid rise, and he
is run for mayor just caught fire in a way
that frankly surprised me along with I think, you know
ninety five percent of those who looked at the race
(03:11):
at the very beginning.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Well, tell us about his proposals for New York City.
As we said, free buses, free childcare, a rent freeze
on many apartments. How would all of that actually work
if he wins.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Well, I mean, if we're able to put them into effect,
I mean, it would be a massive change in New
York City. The problem is is that all of these
were not grocery stores, but the other two, that is
the childcare and free buses. Those are very much dependent
on state action. He can't he can't do those on
(03:47):
his own, so he needs to get support both from
the governor from the mass transit authority. So it's one
of these things where he's put forward very ambitious proposals,
but they are just that, they're proposals.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
They're not things that he can.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Do unilaterally as mayor or as mayor in conjunction with
the city council.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
He needs state action.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
And there's a lot of reasons to think that the
state's going to be reluctant to move on what are
very high cost proposals.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Well, and I have to say, I was just in
New York City and the buses are already full, even
with people paying for them. So you'd wonder what it
would be like if it was free.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Yes, no, I guess close to half of those who
take buses now don't pay. I mean they make this
unilateral decision on their own, but yes, I mean it's
the distance between cup and lip on a lot of
these proposals is quite large. And the head of the
MTA came out the other day and said, look, if
(04:53):
we were to do something like free buses, we're talking about,
you know, preparation that is measured in U years, not months.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
What about the cheap groceries part of it, and having
city owned grocery stores. Has he spelled out how that
would work.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
No, he's not spelled out how that would work. And
there's difficulties there too, you know, in terms of you needs.
Are you going to have city warehouses? Where are you
going to base these things? He's talking right now about
one supermarket in each borough. Brooklyn, for instance, is a
place of two point eight to three million people, so
(05:33):
it's not really clear to what extent you move the
needle if you managed to place you know, one grocery
store in one neighborhood. And yeah, there's a lot of
logistical issues there.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I remember a long time ago seeing a map of
what the United States would look like if it was
all the density of Brooklyn, which I think is the
densest part of the entire country, and I think the
whole country would fit into like the state of New
Hampshire were all like Brooklyn. But what about the criticism
from We'll get to Trump at a moment, but what about
(06:07):
the criticism from other people who are the loudest voices
against Mom Donnie, and what are they saying.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Well, you know, it's a mix of things. I mean, look,
you know he's taken of late. He's taking a lot
of flak around his position on Israel, Palestine and Islam
and nine to eleven. But let's put that to the
side for a minute. The biggest criticism has been that
his proposals sound wonderful but are unwieldy to the extent
(06:38):
that he can't do them. So, for instance, he's talked
about producing more than twice as much affordable housing as
any other administration, and I should say New York has
a pretty proud tradition of rehabilitating and building new housing
for low and modern income people, so it's not as
(06:59):
if that's something new in and of itself. But he said, well,
look I can double that commitment. Well no he can't.
I mean not without raising the debt limit in New York,
not without raising a lot more money through taxes. He's
also talked about doing this with high priced union labor,
(07:20):
which has not been the case to date. So there's
a lot of you know, there's the idea double the
amount of affordable housing that New York produces is an
admirable goal. He's not been at all clear on how
you do that, how do you pay for that, how
do you you know, how do you ramp up that
(07:41):
kind of production?
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Well? And how does he respond to the people who
are saying the rich will flee New York City if
the taxes on them go up too much, which, by
the way, I mean outside of New York City. This
is what people say all the time about raising taxes
on the wealthy. Oh, they're going to leave the United States.
They're going to move somewhere else if we raise the
federal tax on allthing. But people are saying that about him, Oh,
(08:04):
all the rich people are going to leave New York.
What does he say back?
Speaker 4 (08:07):
You know, he says back, and I think with some
fairness that, look, this is what more conservative and business
groups always say in New York that if you raise taxes,
the rich are going to flee, And he again, I
think says with some real justice to the argument that no,
that has not been the case. It's, you know, at
(08:28):
very best, there's there's sort of a so far when
taxes have gone up and this sort of thing, there's been,
at very best a marginal leakage of wealthy people out
of New York, and we are talking about very wealthy people,
so you know, perhaps it's a marginal cost. Now, the
(08:50):
other side of that argument would be that I believe
it's the top one percent that is in New York
City pays forty percent of the come tax revenue, is
responsible for forty percent of the income tax revenue in
the city. So even a marginal leakage could present the
(09:10):
city with a real problem. But I do think that
in Toto, he's probably correct in saying, well, let you know,
prove it. You know, let's see that because it's not
been the case that New York. I mean, New York
is a very high priced city with a lot of
very wealthy people, and there's not been much evidence to
date that they're fleeing.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, I mean, I've been bringing up some of the
criticisms of mom Donnie here, but to his credit, it
is a very expensive city. And you know, for the
cost of probably getting a mega mansion in like Memphis,
you can get maybe a college dorm room size department
in New York City.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Yes, exactly, No, it is. I mean I grew up here.
I was born and raised in New York and it is.
It's always been expensive, it is now crazily expensive. I mean,
I have two adult sons, and you know, neither of them,
they have families. Neither of them can afford right now
to live in the city, you know, and that's a
(10:08):
that's a big problem, of course, one of the things,
I mean, everybody's He's also talked about a rent freeze,
but that's on a what they call rent stabilized housing,
which is, you know, accounts for some of but by
no means all of the city's rental housing stock, and
where a lot of the younger people live now is
(10:31):
in housing that is not not regulated, not rent stabilized.
So in other words, if he's successful in freezing rent,
putting to the side that that could prove problematic for
those landlords, it's not going to affect much of the
housing that his own supporters live in.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So you write interestingly that Andrew Cuomo actually outperforms Mom
Donnie with low income voters by a lot.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Why do you think that is, Well, you know, first place,
I mean, that was a couple months ago, so it
may not be as much the case now, but his
you know, one of the interesting things about Mamdani is
that his core support I mean very much Skew's young
twenty to like thirty five to you know, thirty five forty,
I mean so.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Not young young.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
And secondly that it tends to be college educated people
in other words, not talking cast large, not poor and
working typical poor and working class people. And you know,
one of the arguments might be that if you're a poorer,
working class person in New York, you're less attracted. I mean,
(11:44):
this has been true over many elections. You tend to
be less attracted to those who make what you see
as extravagant promises versus those who say, you know, I
know how this works. I know I'm going to be
relative liberal, but relatively careful. And that's been a tension
(12:05):
that's existed. I mean that goes back thirty forty years
in New York. There's a tendency on the part. For instance,
African Americans have not pulled particularly strongly for zoron Mamdanie.
And if you look at their electoral behavior of African
Americans in New York over time, it tends to be
(12:27):
somewhat more careful. You know that we want somebody who's liberal.
We want you know, there is a there's an appreciation
of the role of government, but there's not so much
an appetite for what those voters might see as adventurism
in social policy.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
All Right, we'll stay with uscause in a moment, we're
going to talk about why Trump cares so much about
this race and what he'll do if mom Donnie wins.
One thing Trump did with Atlantic staff writer Michael Powell
will be right back. Welcome back to one thing Trump
(13:12):
did exclusively on the Middle podcast feed. I'm Jeremy Hobson,
and this episode we're talking about the New York City
mayor's race and why it matters to the president. I
am joined by Michael Powell, who writes about politics for
The Atlantic. Michael, So, Eric Adams, the mayor, the current
mayor of New York dropped out of the race. Was
that because Trump wanted him out?
Speaker 4 (13:31):
You know, it's not known, but Trump has Eric Adams
might be seen as a not quite wholly owned subsidiary
of Trump. At this point, he was indicted by the
US Attorney on a variety of corruption charges, and Trump interceded,
I mean Trump's Justice Department and dropped the indictments, and
(13:54):
you know, was seen at the time that Eric Adams
was going to play any did kind of play ball
on immigration and other questions with Trump, And at this point, yes,
I mean, the sense is a sense that if you're
going to beat Mumdanni Eric Adams. One of the problems
is that there are three people running against Mumdanni Andrew Cuomo,
(14:19):
the former governor, Curtis Sliwa Republican, and Adams running on
an independent ticket. And there was pressure on Adams coming
both from the business community in New York and presumably
also from Trump to get out to give Cuomo a
something closer to a clean shot at trying to beat Mumdanni.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
So yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Even if it were to be Cuomo, if Cuomo wins
the race, it's not going to be somebody who agrees
with Trump on very much, is it. I Mean, why
does Trump care so much about which of these candidates
wins this race.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I Mean there's two things.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
One is Mumdannie is he's a living symbol of kind
of a thumb.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
In the eye of Trump, right.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
I Mean, he's been very open about you know, I'm
going to essentially personify the opposition to Trump, so that
there's that and and as we know, Trump does not
take well to to challenges, right, I mean, witness what
he did with Canada just the other day when they
(15:25):
ran a.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Commercial he didn't like.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
And so I think that that there's that, and then
there's also, you know, I mean the fact that he's
that is, Mamdannie is a socialist. I was gonna say
it makes Trump see red. But also you know, Trump
is very he enjoys using politicians as pinatas uh and
you know Mamdani I think presents himself as a pinata.
(15:51):
So anyways, I guess I'm going both. But I would
say in some he would probably see Cuomo. That is,
Trump would see Cuomo as somebody can work with, you know,
I mean Trump's been I mean, Culomo's been a cabinet minister,
he's been you know, he's been a governor, he's been
an attorney general.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
But he did work with Trump during the during the
COVID pandemic that I remember. They you know, they had
their news conferences every day, but they had to work
together during that exactly.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
You know, Trump and and Cuomo are there's every reason
to think that they could work reasonably well together.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
So how involved has the white House been in the
mayor's race since Eric Adams dropped out. Are they, you know,
funding places that are going to help out Cuoma? Are
they trying to hurt mom Donnie? What have they been doing?
Do we know?
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Well, essentially, they've been rumbling a lot about Mum Donnie,
but they've for the Trump administration, they've kept a relatively
low profile. I think they realize if in fact they want,
if in fact they you know, their hope is that
Cuomo will win. I think they have enough self awareness
(16:59):
to know that in New York City, the best way
to ensure that won't happen would be to openly embrace
Andrew Clomo. So there's Look, there's a number of ads
running now anti Mamdani ads that are coming from the
finance you know, finance community. To what extent those are,
you know it can be traced back to Trump is
(17:21):
not clear, But that's where I would suspect that you
would find if if you could find fingerprints, that's where
you'd find them.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
What about the business interests of the Trump family. Could
they be affected by whoever becomes the mayor of New
York City?
Speaker 3 (17:35):
I don't you know, I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
I mean, Trump certainly works in real estate, but he
doesn't work in affordable housing. I mean, I think that's
kind of a marginal concern.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Now, Trump says he will cut off funding for New
York if Mom Donnie wins. Are people taking that threat seriously?
And can he do that?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Well?
Speaker 4 (17:57):
You know, of course, what what what Trump can do
and what Trump does do are different things, right, I mean,
he all the time does things that now that on
the face of it, he can't do or should be
difficult to do. So I have no reason to think
that Trump wouldn't, in political terms, you know, torture Mamdannie
(18:19):
where he could so any you know what does that mean? Well,
if you want to get money for another rail tunnel,
if you want to get money for road repairs.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I mean, there's all kinds of things that.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
A big city like New York needs from the federal government,
you know, and in the margins, and those margins can
be very large at times. There's all sorts of ways
that Trump could make life unpleasant for Mamdannie. He can't
simply I say, can't who knows with Trump? But legally
(18:55):
he can't simply cut New York off.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
What about I mean the thing that he's doing to
a number of other cities, including Los Angeles and Washington,
d C. In Chicago is sending in troops. He hasn't
done that yet in New York City. Is anyone talking
about that?
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Well, yes, I mean there's always worry about that. It's
not that again, this is what would stop Trump. But
New York presents a very poor case for sending in
the National Guard because that's always been linked I mean,
so far, he's always linked that to crime, and New
York is quite arguably in homicide, in terms of homicide,
(19:35):
the safest of the top twenty five biggest cities in America.
So there's not there's no obvious reason to do that.
On the other hand, he does have ice in the
city already, and as we're seeing in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
That can always be ramped up.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
And so there's in say Queens, New York now it's
around sixty percent of the residents are foreign born. How
many of those are legal? There's there's every reason to
believe that he could really cause a lot of trouble
for the city, probably more so on the on the
ice front than with the National Guard.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
But rule out nothing.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Are Trump's warning swaying any voters that you can see.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
I don't think so. I think it's at a marginal level.
I think that, you know, the bigger issue of late
has been Israel Palestine. I mean, in the last couple
of weeks, there's been a lot of talk around that,
and I think they're also look, I mean, Mamdani's politics
putting Israel and Palestine entirely to the side. You know,
(20:36):
there's been attention to DSA and DSA's traditional platform political platform,
which included, you know, defunding the police, disarming the police,
shutting down prisons, you know, legalizing or decriminalizing hard drugs
and prostitution. Now he's made an effort, that is donnie
(21:00):
to kind of separate himself from that, but it isn't
you know, He's always He's also made very clear in
his words that DSA is his ideological home, defines him ideologically. Well,
if so, then it's then it's it's kind of fair
game to say, you know, where, to what extent are
these policies things that you at least had embraced until
(21:24):
the last six months. And I think that may to
the extent that there's any kind of not yet buyer's remorse,
but you know, voter voter concern it may be around
those issues.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
All right. So that brings us to the big question
which people are wondering outside of New York City, which
is is the Democratic Party worried about mom Donnie winning
and what it would mean for them in the mid
term elections next year that he would become the face
of the party.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
I think there's there's both concern and there's hope, right So,
I mean, on the level side of the party, there's
been a lot of talk about, well, you know, social
and it's with some truth that socialism, particularly among younger voters,
is polling very well, that this kind of populist, you know,
(22:15):
affordable New York, affordable America stance could prove very effective
in the midterms. Cast against that is the reality that
most of the swing districts are much more likely to
be contested in the center of the political spectrum. The
New York Times actually had a very good, I mean,
(22:36):
I thought, very interesting editorial kind of exploring that a
couple of weeks ago. And there I think the concern
is to the extent to which Mamdonie's victory, assuming he
wins on election day, you know, comes to symbolize the
party could be very problematic and those kind of swing
(22:57):
congressional districts that will determine who controls the House. So
it's a you know, it's an interesting moment. I mean,
I think the left of the Democratic Party is very
hopeful and things. You know, we could populate a lot
of districts with kind of you know, mom Donnie light candidates. Uh,
and then there's a lot of worry as to what
(23:18):
that does, as I say, in swing districts.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, I have to say, as a journalist who has
lived in New York in the past but doesn't live
there now, my initial reaction when everybody said, oh, this
he's going to be the face of the Democratic Party
is oh, come on, you know, New York City is different.
Just because everybody in the media is based there, doesn't
mean that the whole country is watching what's happening with
the New York City mayors race. What does this have
to do with national politics? But then I started thinking
(23:42):
more about it, I'm like, well, actually, but the President
of the United States came out of New York City,
so it's not irrelevant to the entire country's politics. But
it is different. It is yet some one, for mentor
of mine said when I first got my job long
ago covering Wall Street in New York, he said, can congratulations,
you finally have a foreign assignment, because it is like
(24:03):
for another country New York City one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
And I have the same skepticism. I mean, I share
your skepticism. I also think right because so many of
us right, I mean, you know, reporters and opinion makers,
all this kind of stuff either are based here in
Washington and travel back and forth. There is this kind
(24:26):
of hermetic environment that I think gets in the way
of thinking clearly about what's going to play in wherever, right,
you know, a swing district outside of Kansas City, or
even a swing district you know in upstate New York
or in Orange County, California. There's a lot of reasons
(24:46):
to I think stop short of kind of millennialist, you know,
proclamations about a new politics sweeping cities.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
That is Michael Powell, who is a staff writer for
The Atlantic, Michael, thank you so much for coming on
the show.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
I've enjoyed it. Jeremy, thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
By the way, I guess I didn't ask you what
do you think is going to happen? Is mom donnie
gonna win?
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Yeah? I think he's fight a bet.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Yes, I mean he's up ten percentage points, so it's
been cut from twenty to ten.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
But I'm not.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Look my crystal ball is always broken. But I would yes,
if I were to bet, which I'm not going to
on this race, I would say that mcdonnie's going to
be the mayor elect.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Well, thanks for listening to one thing Trump did. It
was produced this week by Brandon Condritz. Our next middle
episode will be in your podcast feed later this week.
We're going to be asking you are you afraid AI
will take your job? Andrew Yang and tech reporter Inina
Fried are on the show. And if you like this podcast,
please rate it wherever you get your podcasts and write
a review. Our theme music was composed by Noah Haidu.
I'm Jeremy Hobson. Talk to you soon.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
S was stimit
Welcome to One Thing Trump did, available exclusively on The
Middle Podcast feed on Jeremy Hobson, and this week we
are looking at the race for New York City's next
mayor and why it matters so much to President Trump.
New York State Assemblyman Zoron Mumdani won the Democratic primary
against former Governor Andrew Cuomo back in June, and he's
(00:36):
still leading in the polls. Mom Donnie is a proud
Democratic socialist. He wants to freeze rent and stabilize apartments,
make city buses free, set up universal childcare, and open
city owned grocery stores, all in the name of making
living in New York City cheaper. Another campaign promise of
his standing up to the president listen to what he
(00:59):
had to say at a real debate with Cuomo, who's
now running as an independent, and the Republican candidate Curtis Sliwa.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I would make it clear to the President that I
am willing to not only speak to him, but to
work with him if it means delivering on lowering the
cost of living for New Yorkers. That's something that he
ran his presidential campaign on, and yet all he's been
able to deliver thus far has been prosecuting his political
enemies and trying to enact the largest deportation program in
American history. And what I tell the President is, if
(01:28):
he ever wants to come for New Yorkers in the
way that he has been, he's going to have to
get through me as the next mayor of the city.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
In the last month or so, Trump's called Mom Donnie
a communist and has threatened to cut off all federal
funds if Montdani gets elected. So why does Trump care
so much about the New York mayor's race and what
could his relationship with New York City look like if
Mom Donnie wins. That's the subject of this week's One
Thing Trump Did. And I am joined by Michael Powell,
(01:53):
who's a staff writer for The Atlantic. Michael, it's great
to have you here.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Thanks, it's great being here.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Well, let's start with the basics. For people outside of
New York City, you haven't been following this closely, give
us a little more of the bio of Mamdani.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Yeah, it's hard to overstate what a rapid rise it's been.
I mean, he a year ago was a very little
known state assemblyman from Queens, one of the boroughs of
New York and was polling and I believe one percent.
His father is a very prominent Marxist intellectual and a
(02:29):
professor at Columbia University. His mother, Mironaire, is a very
well known producer and director of films, and is well.
They're both of Indian background and had been in Uganda,
where Zoran was born. They came to this country when
(02:50):
Zoron I believe, was about seven years old. And as
I say, it's been a very rapid he's thirty four
years old. It's been a very rapid rise, and he
is run for mayor just caught fire in a way
that frankly surprised me along with I think, you know
ninety five percent of those who looked at the race
(03:11):
at the very beginning.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Well, tell us about his proposals for New York City.
As we said, free buses, free childcare, a rent freeze
on many apartments. How would all of that actually work
if he wins.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Well, I mean, if we're able to put them into effect,
I mean, it would be a massive change in New
York City. The problem is is that all of these
were not grocery stores, but the other two, that is
the childcare and free buses. Those are very much dependent
on state action. He can't he can't do those on
(03:47):
his own, so he needs to get support both from
the governor from the mass transit authority. So it's one
of these things where he's put forward very ambitious proposals,
but they are just that, they're proposals.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
They're not things that he can.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Do unilaterally as mayor or as mayor in conjunction with
the city council.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
He needs state action.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
And there's a lot of reasons to think that the
state's going to be reluctant to move on what are
very high cost proposals.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Well, and I have to say, I was just in
New York City and the buses are already full, even
with people paying for them. So you'd wonder what it
would be like if it was free.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Yes, no, I guess close to half of those who
take buses now don't pay. I mean they make this
unilateral decision on their own, but yes, I mean it's
the distance between cup and lip on a lot of
these proposals is quite large. And the head of the
MTA came out the other day and said, look, if
(04:53):
we were to do something like free buses, we're talking about,
you know, preparation that is measured in U years, not months.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
What about the cheap groceries part of it, and having
city owned grocery stores. Has he spelled out how that
would work.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
No, he's not spelled out how that would work. And
there's difficulties there too, you know, in terms of you needs.
Are you going to have city warehouses? Where are you
going to base these things? He's talking right now about
one supermarket in each borough. Brooklyn, for instance, is a
place of two point eight to three million people, so
(05:33):
it's not really clear to what extent you move the
needle if you managed to place you know, one grocery
store in one neighborhood. And yeah, there's a lot of
logistical issues there.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I remember a long time ago seeing a map of
what the United States would look like if it was
all the density of Brooklyn, which I think is the
densest part of the entire country, and I think the
whole country would fit into like the state of New
Hampshire were all like Brooklyn. But what about the criticism
from We'll get to Trump at a moment, but what about
(06:07):
the criticism from other people who are the loudest voices
against Mom Donnie, and what are they saying.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Well, you know, it's a mix of things. I mean, look,
you know he's taken of late. He's taking a lot
of flak around his position on Israel, Palestine and Islam
and nine to eleven. But let's put that to the
side for a minute. The biggest criticism has been that
his proposals sound wonderful but are unwieldy to the extent
(06:38):
that he can't do them. So, for instance, he's talked
about producing more than twice as much affordable housing as
any other administration, and I should say New York has
a pretty proud tradition of rehabilitating and building new housing
for low and modern income people, so it's not as
(06:59):
if that's something new in and of itself. But he said, well,
look I can double that commitment. Well no he can't.
I mean not without raising the debt limit in New York,
not without raising a lot more money through taxes. He's
also talked about doing this with high priced union labor,
(07:20):
which has not been the case to date. So there's
a lot of you know, there's the idea double the
amount of affordable housing that New York produces is an
admirable goal. He's not been at all clear on how
you do that, how do you pay for that, how
do you you know, how do you ramp up that
(07:41):
kind of production?
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Well? And how does he respond to the people who
are saying the rich will flee New York City if
the taxes on them go up too much, which, by
the way, I mean outside of New York City. This
is what people say all the time about raising taxes
on the wealthy. Oh, they're going to leave the United States.
They're going to move somewhere else if we raise the
federal tax on allthing. But people are saying that about him, Oh,
(08:04):
all the rich people are going to leave New York.
What does he say back?
Speaker 4 (08:07):
You know, he says back, and I think with some
fairness that, look, this is what more conservative and business
groups always say in New York that if you raise taxes,
the rich are going to flee, And he again, I
think says with some real justice to the argument that no,
that has not been the case. It's, you know, at
(08:28):
very best, there's there's sort of a so far when
taxes have gone up and this sort of thing, there's been,
at very best a marginal leakage of wealthy people out
of New York, and we are talking about very wealthy people,
so you know, perhaps it's a marginal cost. Now, the
(08:50):
other side of that argument would be that I believe
it's the top one percent that is in New York
City pays forty percent of the come tax revenue, is
responsible for forty percent of the income tax revenue in
the city. So even a marginal leakage could present the
(09:10):
city with a real problem. But I do think that
in Toto, he's probably correct in saying, well, let you know,
prove it. You know, let's see that because it's not
been the case that New York. I mean, New York
is a very high priced city with a lot of
very wealthy people, and there's not been much evidence to
date that they're fleeing.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, I mean, I've been bringing up some of the
criticisms of mom Donnie here, but to his credit, it
is a very expensive city. And you know, for the
cost of probably getting a mega mansion in like Memphis,
you can get maybe a college dorm room size department
in New York City.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Yes, exactly, No, it is. I mean I grew up here.
I was born and raised in New York and it is.
It's always been expensive, it is now crazily expensive. I mean,
I have two adult sons, and you know, neither of them,
they have families. Neither of them can afford right now
to live in the city, you know, and that's a
(10:08):
that's a big problem, of course, one of the things,
I mean, everybody's He's also talked about a rent freeze,
but that's on a what they call rent stabilized housing,
which is, you know, accounts for some of but by
no means all of the city's rental housing stock, and
where a lot of the younger people live now is
(10:31):
in housing that is not not regulated, not rent stabilized.
So in other words, if he's successful in freezing rent,
putting to the side that that could prove problematic for
those landlords, it's not going to affect much of the
housing that his own supporters live in.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So you write interestingly that Andrew Cuomo actually outperforms Mom
Donnie with low income voters by a lot.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Why do you think that is, Well, you know, first place,
I mean, that was a couple months ago, so it
may not be as much the case now, but his
you know, one of the interesting things about Mamdani is
that his core support I mean very much Skew's young
twenty to like thirty five to you know, thirty five forty,
I mean so.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Not young young.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
And secondly that it tends to be college educated people
in other words, not talking cast large, not poor and
working typical poor and working class people. And you know,
one of the arguments might be that if you're a poorer,
working class person in New York, you're less attracted. I mean,
(11:44):
this has been true over many elections. You tend to
be less attracted to those who make what you see
as extravagant promises versus those who say, you know, I
know how this works. I know I'm going to be
relative liberal, but relatively careful. And that's been a tension
(12:05):
that's existed. I mean that goes back thirty forty years
in New York. There's a tendency on the part. For instance,
African Americans have not pulled particularly strongly for zoron Mamdanie.
And if you look at their electoral behavior of African
Americans in New York over time, it tends to be
(12:27):
somewhat more careful. You know that we want somebody who's liberal.
We want you know, there is a there's an appreciation
of the role of government, but there's not so much
an appetite for what those voters might see as adventurism
in social policy.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
All Right, we'll stay with uscause in a moment, we're
going to talk about why Trump cares so much about
this race and what he'll do if mom Donnie wins.
One thing Trump did with Atlantic staff writer Michael Powell
will be right back. Welcome back to one thing Trump
(13:12):
did exclusively on the Middle podcast feed. I'm Jeremy Hobson,
and this episode we're talking about the New York City
mayor's race and why it matters to the president. I
am joined by Michael Powell, who writes about politics for
The Atlantic. Michael, So, Eric Adams, the mayor, the current
mayor of New York dropped out of the race. Was
that because Trump wanted him out?
Speaker 4 (13:31):
You know, it's not known, but Trump has Eric Adams
might be seen as a not quite wholly owned subsidiary
of Trump. At this point, he was indicted by the
US Attorney on a variety of corruption charges, and Trump interceded,
I mean Trump's Justice Department and dropped the indictments, and
(13:54):
you know, was seen at the time that Eric Adams
was going to play any did kind of play ball
on immigration and other questions with Trump, And at this point, yes,
I mean, the sense is a sense that if you're
going to beat Mumdanni Eric Adams. One of the problems
is that there are three people running against Mumdanni Andrew Cuomo,
(14:19):
the former governor, Curtis Sliwa Republican, and Adams running on
an independent ticket. And there was pressure on Adams coming
both from the business community in New York and presumably
also from Trump to get out to give Cuomo a
something closer to a clean shot at trying to beat Mumdanni.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
So yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Even if it were to be Cuomo, if Cuomo wins
the race, it's not going to be somebody who agrees
with Trump on very much, is it. I Mean, why
does Trump care so much about which of these candidates
wins this race.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I Mean there's two things.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
One is Mumdannie is he's a living symbol of kind
of a thumb.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
In the eye of Trump, right.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
I Mean, he's been very open about you know, I'm
going to essentially personify the opposition to Trump, so that
there's that and and as we know, Trump does not
take well to to challenges, right, I mean, witness what
he did with Canada just the other day when they
(15:25):
ran a.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Commercial he didn't like.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
And so I think that that there's that, and then
there's also, you know, I mean the fact that he's
that is, Mamdannie is a socialist. I was gonna say
it makes Trump see red. But also you know, Trump
is very he enjoys using politicians as pinatas uh and
you know Mamdani I think presents himself as a pinata.
(15:51):
So anyways, I guess I'm going both. But I would
say in some he would probably see Cuomo. That is,
Trump would see Cuomo as somebody can work with, you know,
I mean Trump's been I mean, Culomo's been a cabinet minister,
he's been you know, he's been a governor, he's been
an attorney general.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
But he did work with Trump during the during the
COVID pandemic that I remember. They you know, they had
their news conferences every day, but they had to work
together during that exactly.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
You know, Trump and and Cuomo are there's every reason
to think that they could work reasonably well together.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
So how involved has the white House been in the
mayor's race since Eric Adams dropped out. Are they, you know,
funding places that are going to help out Cuoma? Are
they trying to hurt mom Donnie? What have they been doing?
Do we know?
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Well, essentially, they've been rumbling a lot about Mum Donnie,
but they've for the Trump administration, they've kept a relatively
low profile. I think they realize if in fact they want,
if in fact they you know, their hope is that
Cuomo will win. I think they have enough self awareness
(16:59):
to know that in New York City, the best way
to ensure that won't happen would be to openly embrace
Andrew Clomo. So there's Look, there's a number of ads
running now anti Mamdani ads that are coming from the
finance you know, finance community. To what extent those are,
you know it can be traced back to Trump is
(17:21):
not clear, But that's where I would suspect that you
would find if if you could find fingerprints, that's where
you'd find them.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
What about the business interests of the Trump family. Could
they be affected by whoever becomes the mayor of New
York City?
Speaker 3 (17:35):
I don't you know, I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
I mean, Trump certainly works in real estate, but he
doesn't work in affordable housing. I mean, I think that's
kind of a marginal concern.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Now, Trump says he will cut off funding for New
York if Mom Donnie wins. Are people taking that threat seriously?
And can he do that?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Well?
Speaker 4 (17:57):
You know, of course, what what what Trump can do
and what Trump does do are different things, right, I mean,
he all the time does things that now that on
the face of it, he can't do or should be
difficult to do. So I have no reason to think
that Trump wouldn't, in political terms, you know, torture Mamdannie
(18:19):
where he could so any you know what does that mean? Well,
if you want to get money for another rail tunnel,
if you want to get money for road repairs.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I mean, there's all kinds of things that.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
A big city like New York needs from the federal government,
you know, and in the margins, and those margins can
be very large at times. There's all sorts of ways
that Trump could make life unpleasant for Mamdannie. He can't
simply I say, can't who knows with Trump? But legally
(18:55):
he can't simply cut New York off.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
What about I mean the thing that he's doing to
a number of other cities, including Los Angeles and Washington,
d C. In Chicago is sending in troops. He hasn't
done that yet in New York City. Is anyone talking
about that?
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Well, yes, I mean there's always worry about that. It's
not that again, this is what would stop Trump. But
New York presents a very poor case for sending in
the National Guard because that's always been linked I mean,
so far, he's always linked that to crime, and New
York is quite arguably in homicide, in terms of homicide,
(19:35):
the safest of the top twenty five biggest cities in America.
So there's not there's no obvious reason to do that.
On the other hand, he does have ice in the
city already, and as we're seeing in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
That can always be ramped up.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
And so there's in say Queens, New York now it's
around sixty percent of the residents are foreign born. How
many of those are legal? There's there's every reason to
believe that he could really cause a lot of trouble
for the city, probably more so on the on the
ice front than with the National Guard.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
But rule out nothing.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Are Trump's warning swaying any voters that you can see.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
I don't think so. I think it's at a marginal level.
I think that, you know, the bigger issue of late
has been Israel Palestine. I mean, in the last couple
of weeks, there's been a lot of talk around that,
and I think they're also look, I mean, Mamdani's politics
putting Israel and Palestine entirely to the side. You know,
(20:36):
there's been attention to DSA and DSA's traditional platform political platform,
which included, you know, defunding the police, disarming the police,
shutting down prisons, you know, legalizing or decriminalizing hard drugs
and prostitution. Now he's made an effort, that is donnie
(21:00):
to kind of separate himself from that, but it isn't
you know, He's always He's also made very clear in
his words that DSA is his ideological home, defines him ideologically. Well,
if so, then it's then it's it's kind of fair
game to say, you know, where, to what extent are
these policies things that you at least had embraced until
(21:24):
the last six months. And I think that may to
the extent that there's any kind of not yet buyer's remorse,
but you know, voter voter concern it may be around
those issues.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
All right. So that brings us to the big question
which people are wondering outside of New York City, which
is is the Democratic Party worried about mom Donnie winning
and what it would mean for them in the mid
term elections next year that he would become the face
of the party.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
I think there's there's both concern and there's hope, right So,
I mean, on the level side of the party, there's
been a lot of talk about, well, you know, social
and it's with some truth that socialism, particularly among younger voters,
is polling very well, that this kind of populist, you know,
(22:15):
affordable New York, affordable America stance could prove very effective
in the midterms. Cast against that is the reality that
most of the swing districts are much more likely to
be contested in the center of the political spectrum. The
New York Times actually had a very good, I mean,
(22:36):
I thought, very interesting editorial kind of exploring that a
couple of weeks ago. And there I think the concern
is to the extent to which Mamdonie's victory, assuming he
wins on election day, you know, comes to symbolize the
party could be very problematic and those kind of swing
(22:57):
congressional districts that will determine who controls the House. So
it's a you know, it's an interesting moment. I mean,
I think the left of the Democratic Party is very
hopeful and things. You know, we could populate a lot
of districts with kind of you know, mom Donnie light candidates. Uh,
and then there's a lot of worry as to what
(23:18):
that does, as I say, in swing districts.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, I have to say, as a journalist who has
lived in New York in the past but doesn't live
there now, my initial reaction when everybody said, oh, this
he's going to be the face of the Democratic Party
is oh, come on, you know, New York City is different.
Just because everybody in the media is based there, doesn't
mean that the whole country is watching what's happening with
the New York City mayors race. What does this have
to do with national politics? But then I started thinking
(23:42):
more about it, I'm like, well, actually, but the President
of the United States came out of New York City,
so it's not irrelevant to the entire country's politics. But
it is different. It is yet some one, for mentor
of mine said when I first got my job long
ago covering Wall Street in New York, he said, can congratulations,
you finally have a foreign assignment, because it is like
(24:03):
for another country New York City one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
And I have the same skepticism. I mean, I share
your skepticism. I also think right because so many of
us right, I mean, you know, reporters and opinion makers,
all this kind of stuff either are based here in
Washington and travel back and forth. There is this kind
(24:26):
of hermetic environment that I think gets in the way
of thinking clearly about what's going to play in wherever, right,
you know, a swing district outside of Kansas City, or
even a swing district you know in upstate New York
or in Orange County, California. There's a lot of reasons
(24:46):
to I think stop short of kind of millennialist, you know,
proclamations about a new politics sweeping cities.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
That is Michael Powell, who is a staff writer for
The Atlantic, Michael, thank you so much for coming on
the show.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
I've enjoyed it. Jeremy, thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
By the way, I guess I didn't ask you what
do you think is going to happen? Is mom donnie
gonna win?
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Yeah? I think he's fight a bet.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Yes, I mean he's up ten percentage points, so it's
been cut from twenty to ten.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
But I'm not.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Look my crystal ball is always broken. But I would yes,
if I were to bet, which I'm not going to
on this race, I would say that mcdonnie's going to
be the mayor elect.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Well, thanks for listening to one thing Trump did. It
was produced this week by Brandon Condritz. Our next middle
episode will be in your podcast feed later this week.
We're going to be asking you are you afraid AI
will take your job? Andrew Yang and tech reporter Inina
Fried are on the show. And if you like this podcast,
please rate it wherever you get your podcasts and write
a review. Our theme music was composed by Noah Haidu.
I'm Jeremy Hobson. Talk to you soon.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
S was stimit
Host
Jeremy Hobson
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