February 24, 2025 • 51 mins
On this episode of The Middle we're partnering with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation's Cross Country Checkup to broadcast live from Vancouver, British Columbia for a cross-border conversation about Trump's comments on Canada as the 51st State. Jeremy is joined by Cross Country Checkup host Ian Hanomansing, NPR National Political Correspondent Mara Liasson, Canadian businesswoman Arlene Dickinson and Atlantic senior editor David Frum and takes calls from both Canada and the US. #Trump #Trudeau #CBC #Canada #51ststate #border #crossborder
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, Middle podcast listeners, It's Jeremy Hobson.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
And Ian Hannah Mancing.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Ian Hannah Mancing, of course, the host of cross Country
Checkup at the CBC. We are coming to you from
Vancouver with the podcast a special edition today and tomorrow,
and it's a collaboration that we just did that was
live across the entire US and Canada on radio and television.
We're asking about something Ian that is very controversial here
(00:26):
all we've both gotten a lot of hate mail just
even for talking about this, but it is about Donald
Trump's suggestion that Canada become the fifty first state. As
outlandish of that as that may be, the whole idea
of the Middle is to allow ordinary people to weigh in,
not just hearing the extremes, and that's what we're going
to do here. So I hope you enjoyed this first
hour of the show today and we're going to drop
(00:46):
the second hour of the podcast tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
What I'd like to see Canada become our fifty first date.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I'm Ian Hannah Mancing, the host of cross Country Checkup
in Canada.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
A snowballs chance in hell that Canada will ever be
the fifty first state, and.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I'm Jeremy Hobson, the host of the middle in the US.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Canada and the United States.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
That would really be something.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
You get rid of that artificially drawn line. And it
would also be much better for national security. You know,
if again we basically protect Canada.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Live from Vancouver. This is a cross border conversation.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
You know, something to the President, I'll make them accounter offer.
How about if we buy Alaska and we'll throw in
Minnesota Minneapolis at the same time, So you know, it's
not realistic.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
The US and Canada have been longtime allies and neighbors.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
But when US President Donald Trump began musing and then
doubling and tripling down on Canada as the fifty first State,
tensions pushed us to the brink of a trade war.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Earlier this month, then Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau told
a group of business leaders on a hot mic that
Donald Trump's fifty first state comments are not a joke,
but in fact a real thing.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
And just last week, after a meeting with Canadian premiers,
Deputy White House Chief of Staff James Blair cautioned them
to take Donald Trump's comments about the fifty first state
quote at face value.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
But will Some see this as an attack on Canadian sovereignty.
Others believe the president is trolling and seeking negotiation leverage
for the next round of trade talks. So it's now
time to have your say.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Our question today, what do you think of Trump's comments
about Canada becoming the fifty first state. Our number is
one eight eight eight four one six eight three three
three one eight eight eight four one six eight three
three three.
Speaker 6 (02:37):
Canada as a whole would probably be better.
Speaker 7 (02:39):
Alberta definitely would be better as a state versus a province.
Speaker 8 (02:42):
I don't understand why Trump has to keep saying, oh,
the fifty first state.
Speaker 9 (02:47):
I'm telling you I will never wear red, white and blue.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
We're taking calls from both sides of the border, across
Canada and the United States, from Washington, d C. To
Los Angeles, Minnesota to Florida.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
We are already getting a huge volume of calls. And
if those of you in the United States are having
a hard time getting through on the phone, you can
go online to CBC dot Ca slash air check, so
that's CBC dot Ca slash air check and leave a
message and we will call you back. And of course
you can also try our regular number one eight eight
eight four one six eight three three three one eight
(03:23):
eight eight four one six eight three three three.
Speaker 10 (03:25):
It's an insult to Canadians to think that they're so
small that they would become a state of the US.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I don't think we should do it because man, well,
help to increase the add to the economy and everything else,
and I'll make it will strengthen us.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Our question this hour, what do you think of Trump's
comments about Canada becoming the fifty first state?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And let me give you that online address one more
time CBC dot caa slash air check.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
But why are we supporting a country two hundred billion
plus a year. Our military is at their disposal. They
should be a state. That's why I told Trudeau when
it can down, I said, well would happen if we
didn't do it?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
He said, Canada.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Would dissolve, Canada wouldn't be able to function.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I'm Jeremy Hobson and I'm mean Hannah Man sing across
Canada on CBC Radio and CBC News Network.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
At across America on public radio stations and c SPAN television.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
This is a live cross border conversation, a co production
between CBC and the Middle.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
For anyone who wants to watch us live on TikTok
or YouTube, you can find us at CBC News and I.
Before we get into this, it is worth noting a
lot of people are angry that we are even having
this conversation. They think it's an endorsement of Trump's suggestion
and an insult. You have been on the receiving end
of a lot of this.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
You know. We have received a lot of online comments
emails on some sensitive topics in the past, but nothing
like I've seen over the last forty eight hours. And
I should point out that there's no question that the
original show question that we had struck a nerve and
so never are intent to normalize the idea that Canada
(05:03):
would ever become the fifty first state. And so you know,
when people tell us that just doing this show is
normalizing Trump's comments and that it's dangerous, I should tell
you that we are very careful about how we do
a program like this. We are not in any way
endorsing what Trump has been saying. Many of you in
Canada spoke out, we listened, and as I mentioned, we
(05:24):
changed the show question to better reflect our aim here
and you know, the whole point of our show and
the Middle is to hear what those of you who
are listening and watching have to think. This is a
place where people can speak out on issues where politicians
up until now have been doing most of the talking.
I really think it's important for Americans to hear what
Canadians have to say, and Jeremy, I'm really interested in
(05:46):
hearing what Americans have to say.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Absolutely, And Americans may not know this because we've got
a lot going on in the United States right now,
but Canadians have actually been boycotting American products because of this,
have been canceling travel because of the tensions between the
two countries. But as I said, you know, right now
Americans are focused on Since Trump took office, he has
said he wants to take over Greenland, the Panama Canal, Gaza,
(06:11):
he wants the mineral rights in Ukraine. Not to mention
the thousands of federal workers being laid off indiscriminately or
just being told that they've got to tell the government
five things they did last week or be fired. And
egg prices in the United States through the roof. By
the way, egg prices here not bad. No, I should
bring some back with me. I legal, okay. That said,
(06:32):
there is no more important relationship than the one between
the US and Canada, and we do want to hear
from people on both sides of the border today, and
we will start this hour by saying that some of
what Trump says ends up happening, some of it is bluster.
So let's bring in someone who may be able to
help decipher all of that for US. Marillason is the
national political correspondent for NPR. She's in Washington, d C. Mark,
(06:55):
Great to have you with us. Do you think Trump
is being serious when he talks about Canada as the
fifty first state? Is he trolling justin Trudeau? Is it
a negotiating tactic one?
Speaker 4 (07:07):
I think it's all of those things. Every Trump troll
is a trial balloon. And you know, there's so many
things he says threatens, then he backs off. At the
time he says it, he probably means it completely seriously.
I think you should take him seriously and literally. I
do think that even though it's hard to make predictions,
especially about the future, Canada will not become the fifty
(07:29):
first state of the United States. And although it's clearly
a huge topic of conversation and consternation in Canada. It
is not as if Trump put any kind of thing
in motion in the United States. There's no congressional resolutions
to say we're inviting Canada to join us. There's no
effort on the Trump administration's part to get a referendum
(07:51):
in Canada scheduled on this, nothing at all. It was
an epic troll and it was meant to dominate and
humiliate Justin Trudeau, and that's why he continues to call
him Governor Trudeau. And the irony is that Trudeau could
have turned around and said, hey, beware of what you
wish for. We have more population than California. We'd have
(08:12):
more electoral votes than any state, and we'd vote blue
and a Republican would never win the White House if
we were the fifty first state.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Well, and from a Senate perspective, if they were playing
by Wyoming rules, they would have sixty sixty states and
one hundred and twenty senators in the USA. Yeah, that's
not how it works.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
The Senate is a minoritarian institution, but they'd have a
lot of.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
House members well, but many.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
That's based on pop population.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Well, and many people Mara are taking it seriously in Canada,
Canadian elections.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Ship it's an incredible insult.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, well listen here to the premier. Andrew Fury from
Newfoundland and Labrador spoke to the CBC after meeting at
the White House, and here's what he had to say.
Speaker 11 (08:53):
Unfortunately, in the meeting at the White House, the officials
confirmed that he is very serious about the fifty first
state comments. He said it to my count five or
six times now, so he's not only doubling down, he's
now taking a joke that was once a social post
and turning it into sustained rhetoric and a sustained attack
(09:16):
on Canada. I believe the tariff issues perhaps just conflation.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I do believe.
Speaker 11 (09:21):
That this president in particular has an imperialistic agenda, want
of expansion, and we need to take that as Canadians
very seriously. We need to take it as a not
just as an economic threat, but as a threat on
our sovereignty, on our Canadian values are in our Canadian identity.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Mar we think back to the first Trump term and
some of the things that he said that were pretty outlandish,
like a Muslim band did happen, or like the separation
of children from their families when they crossed illegally. Did happen?
Speaker 4 (09:51):
Well, those things are within the president's control. I mean,
he controls immigration. It's quite a different thing to say
that he can wave a magic wand and create Canada
as a the first state.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I mean, now, don't forget.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
He also floated we're going to take over Gaza. We're
going to own it, We're going to hold it. Well,
guess what, he's backed off from that because the Arab
nations said, forget it, We're not participating in the forced
expulsion of Palestinians from their land. So he does back off.
Look what happened when he floated the latest tariffs. The
market reacted, pulled him back for very very little concessions.
(10:24):
You know, what Canada and Mexico did was nothing really.
But so he often talks more than he does. But
I think that the Canadian politician you just played, he
is imperialist. He is expansionist. He believes in manifest destiny,
and he has talked about even he hasn't ruled out
(10:45):
using military force to take over Greenland or the Panama Canal.
He hasn't said he would use military force to take over.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Canada well, and you've got to giggle in your voice
there and there is something like is this a joke
or not? But at the same time.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
I don't think it's a joke.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
At what cost?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Also is is what costs to our relationship with ken
huge cost.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
First of all, don't forget Donald Trump has been very,
very busy dismantling the administrative state in the United States
and putting a stake through the heart of NATO, which,
of course Canada is our number one important ally and
in NATO, and he just you know, so so so
far the fifty first state idea hasn't gone beyond a
(11:27):
Trump patrol. But to just mention it at all will
diminish goodwill on the part of Canada towards America. You
see Canadians booing Americans at a hockey game. And you know,
Donald Trump doesn't believe in allies. He believes that we
are a big, powerful superpower. And if you're a smaller
(11:48):
country or in any way dependent on our largess or
our nuclear shield whatever, then you get you have to
do what he wants you to do. That's not how
the world works. I think you're going to see a
trem wave of anti American sentiment in Europe and in Canada.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
That's marle what the polls show there. Yeah, Ma Vaara,
thank you very much. Maria Leason, National political correspondent for NPR. Again,
our question is what do you think of Trump's comments
about Canada becoming the fifty first at our number eight
eight eight four one six eight three three three.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
We have a lot of things to juggle here, Jeremy,
because we've got two different television networks, two networks of
radio stations. We have lots of calls, but we have
to take a break in just a moment for the
NPR stations. And before we get there, let me read
an online comment from Rob McKinnon in Calgary, Alberta. He
went to CBC dot caa slash aircheck, which I recommend
(12:40):
to everybody, especially our US listeners, if you want to
make sure we hear your voice and know you want
to be on the program. Rob says, should Canada become
the fifty first state, it would encompass the largest geographical area,
be the most populated, most resource rich, and potentially the
most affluent state in the US, with a commensurate number
of seats in the House of repordsatives, it could exert
(13:01):
more influence on US national policy than any other state.
In short, it would become a mega state that the
president would have to treat with respect. We are going
to go to calls in just a moment after that
break for NPR. But a reminder for those of you
who are just tuning in in Canada and the United States,
the program is a cross border conversation. You can listen
(13:22):
live actually on the CBC Listen app or watch at
Cbcnews dot Ca. Our question on this program, what do
you think of Trump's comments about Canada becoming the fifty
first state? Our number eight eight eight four one six
eight three three three. I'm looking at the queue of calls.
Lots coming in. The next caller we're going to hear
(13:43):
is from Victoria, British Columbia.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
I'm Jeremy Hobson along with Ian hannah Man saying, coming
to you live from beautiful Vancouver. We want to hear
from you about your thoughts about President Trump's comments that
Canada should be the fifty first US state. We're taking
calls from both the United States and Canada. We are
going to go to our first call, and that is
Liz Moore, Uh Victor who's in Victoria, British Columbia. Liz Moore,
(14:11):
Welcome to the program. I want to hear from you.
You've lived in Canada all your life what Trump's comments
mean to you.
Speaker 12 (14:17):
Well, I have to say that I was born Canadian
in nineteen sixty one and I always imagine that I
was going to die at Canadian and I still will.
So in that respect, I'm going to stand, you know,
strong for Canada. I think we have to take a
look at just you know, past and the present now.
I mean, you look at Germany and Austria. They decided
they wanted.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
It, they took it.
Speaker 12 (14:38):
You know, you take a look at Ukraine, they decided,
Russia decided they wanted it. They're attempting to take it.
And we're, in my opinion, in the same position. So
I think it's Canadians we have to ask ourselves, you know,
what does Canada mean to us? I mean, the maple
leaf is on my passport, the maple leaf is on
my flag, and it means a lot to me. It
(14:59):
means everything to me. It's my country.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
But you think you think, you think, Liz, that that
Trump would actually take Canada by force.
Speaker 12 (15:10):
Absolutely, I have no doubt in my mind, I really don't.
And I think Canadians have to prepare for that reality.
And and and I want to say about you know,
you know, the United States. I run a company that
you know, I have a lot of agents that are
you know, US based agents. My company embraces US clients.
(15:33):
You know, this is really a kind of a travesty
to even have to think or ponder the fact that
we may not become the allies we always have been.
They've always, in my opinion, been our strongest ally. They're always,
in my opinion, been our protector. They're who I look
at when, you know, when we face you know, world
War three threats, I think of the United States and
(15:54):
thank thank god, they're on our side. We've always they've
always got our back. So this is really un fathomable
to me that things could, you know, flip on a
dime and we can be in this reality that we're
no longer Canada.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Liz, thank you so much for that. And it's it's
you hear the emotion there, and I think we're going
to hear a lot of that because for many people,
just the idea of talking about this that your closest
friend would say, we're going to take you over or
we want you to be the fifty first eight. Whether
you like it or not, it obviously has drawn a
lot of anger from many people on both sides of
the world. I bet we're going to hear from a
(16:28):
lot of Americans who feel the exact same way.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, and let's listen to an American right now. Paul
Appolito is in Rochester, New York. Hi, Paul, Hello, thank
you for.
Speaker 6 (16:40):
Taking my call. And if I could just jump right
in sure this is deeply, deeply said, I mean to
me to hear this conversation, and uh, just you know,
we've got the biggest buffoon in the world as our
buffoon in chief, and he's doing as usual, you know,
(17:00):
like you say, his usual trolling and clowning people. And
uh just to see that, it it just pains me
to see, you know, Canadians uh hurt by this and
and and the reactions from from everybody, uh, on both sides,
you know, starting with the hockey game and certainly starting
with stuff before that, and uh you know these now
(17:21):
these petty uh you know, we're not gonna sell American liquor.
We're not gonna you know, bring Canadian this and that.
It's just it's just so sad because my quick background.
I was born and raised in Buffalo, which I always
you know, to me, that was the uh whatever, the
eleventh Province. Uh, you know, living in Buffalo, being so
close I grew up within uh you know, the viewing
(17:44):
distance of the Peace Bridge. I learned how to play
hockey and fort erie. My family stayed at a place
called Crescent Beach, Ontario summers. Yeah, I fell in love
with Canada and uh this just like I said, this
is painful to see and uh, you know, I'm just
sorry that it ever had to happen to even get
to this point in this far, Paul.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So many calls that we want to get to. But
let me quickly ask you a follow up question. Among
your friends in Rochester, New York, do any of them
even know that this is going on? Do they talk
about it?
Speaker 6 (18:19):
You know, to be honest with you, I haven't heard them.
Let's talk about it. I'm sure if I was back
in Buffalo, I have a feeling that would be a
much different conversation, you know, being that close, you know,
like I said, looking across the river and knowing what's
going on. I will be honest, I don't hear that
much about it in Rochester.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
All right, Well, interesting to hear all of your perspective, Paul,
Thank you very much.
Speaker 6 (18:45):
You're quite welcome.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Let's just sneak one more call in here before we
go to our next guest, and Mark Raymond is calling
from Detroit, also right there on the border with Canada. Mark,
what do you think about Trump's comments on the US
Canada becoming the fifty first state.
Speaker 13 (19:03):
I was not a comfortable information to download. I've always
been I'm forty six years old. I've always been an American,
but I've always been fond of our Canadian relatives. And
I mean that as US as Americans in Canadians were
(19:27):
very much the same in a lot of respects. But
we have our borders and we have our fundamentals, and
I'll it's hard for me to talk about that.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Let me ask you this, Mark, do you take it seriously?
Do you think that do you think that it's for real?
Or do you think it's a negotiating tactic of some kind.
Speaker 13 (19:49):
Actually, I think it's more of a it is. I
don't think it was ever going to happen. I think
it was more of a psychological thing to use against
both sides. But here's here, I'll tell you right where
it rattled me.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
It was.
Speaker 13 (20:11):
For several years in the back of my mind, I've
always kept the idea that if I got too fed
up with the way our country was, that I could
also possibly just move to Canada. Outdoorsman, I have a
lot of uh I spent most of my time outdoors,
so I could very comfortably assimilate to a Canadian lifestyle.
(20:35):
And the threat it directed it hit directly to.
Speaker 7 (20:42):
My uh My, I'm hard to excite.
Speaker 6 (20:46):
Yeah, I'm usually.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Pretty comparty, but maybe but may decide that that you
want to to to move to Canada. Mark, thank you
very much for that call.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Let's try in a really interesting voice familiar to Canadians,
and I'll explain to those of you in the United
States who she is. Arlene Dickinson is a Canadian businesswoman,
an investor on a program called dragons Den that's the
Canadian version of the US TV show Shark Tank, though
dragons Den was on television first. Also a member of
a Canadian Advisory Council on Canada US Relations, and a
(21:17):
few weeks ago, she was in the room during Prime
Minister Trudeau's hot mike moment when he described Trump's fifty
first state threat as a real thing and didn't realize
that the microphone was carrying that to the media. And
we've reached her in Toronto High Arleen, Hey, and how
are you good. Well, let me ask you a question.
We've asked some of the callers, how realistically do you
take Donald Trump's fifty first state threats?
Speaker 10 (21:41):
I think about it in two ways. I think about
you know, you've been talking some of your callers have
been talking about whether or not this is just a
negotiating tactic, and you have to ask yourself a negotiating
tactic for what exactly. And so, you know, an economic
gore is can be debilitating to a nation. And so
it's not to me about you know, military power coming
(22:03):
in and trying to claim Canada. It's about trying to
claim our resources and our geography in order to help
protect the United States. And so I think there is
there is it is a real threat in terms of
wanting to make sure that the power and the resources
go to the United States, and to do that, they
(22:24):
need to harm candidate in the process. I will say
also the second part is that people don't do these things.
You know, this isn't the Americans or this isn't Canadians.
This is a government. This is a leader in President Trump,
who is making decisions that will impact Americans and Canadians
equally and have a large amount of hurt on their
(22:48):
wallets and on their way of life in order to
gain political power.
Speaker 14 (22:53):
Ar Lee.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Shortly after taking office, and we're talking less than two
months ago, Donald Trump said he would use economic force
to e leimonade the artificially drawn border his words, not mine,
between Canada and the United States. So let's talk about
the tariff threat. How is that a threat to Canadian sovereignty.
Speaker 10 (23:11):
Well, if we don't control our economy, if we don't
control our resources and everything to do with our own economy,
then we end up not having a sovereignty. What do
we have, What do we have control of? We don't
have control over the power of our trade and everything
that comes with it. So you know, ultimately the end
of the day, we need to protect our resources, we
(23:32):
need to protect our land, we need to protect the
power that we have, and we have great power. I
think Canadians realize that, you know, our resources, our minerals
are manufacturing, and our goods are very worthwhile and very
much necessary in the global scheme of things. So this
isn't just about what America wants. This is about what
the world needs, and Canada has that, and so holding
(23:54):
onto that and remembering that is really what's going to
protect our sovereignty.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
You know Kevin O'Leary, he was with you on Dragon's
Den at the beginning of that program, currently a Canadian
investor on Shark Tank, and he was an early proponent
of an economic union. And he also joined Alberta's premier
at mar A Lago to meet with Donald Trump. So
Kevin is promoting an economic union between Canada and the
United States. He talks about a common currency. We're going
(24:19):
to hear from him later, but I'd like to give
you the first word on that. An economic union. Do
you think that that would lead to greater prosperity for
both countries?
Speaker 10 (24:28):
No. I think an economic union in this case, where
somebody has so much more size and girth than what
we do, basically means handing over our economic future to
another nation. So this isn't a union. An union implies
that you have two parties coming together on equal footing.
That's not the case here. So what we have is
(24:48):
a country that if we did unite with them and
shared a dollar, we would be giving up everything, as
I said earlier, in terms of our economic capabilities and
our future. Oh, I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
One last thing, Arlene, sorry for jumping in there. We've
got a lot of Americans who are watching and listening
to this program live right now. What message do you
have for them.
Speaker 10 (25:11):
We have, for decades shared one of the largest, well
shared the largest border and trading relationship in the world.
That has been a free trading relationship that has benefited
both sides. The narrative that there is any subsidy or
any sort of benefit to Canadians through this is false.
(25:31):
I would ask you to just read the stats, understand
what's being said, and know that we value you as
friends and neighbors. Americans are not our enemies. We want
to end this in a peaceful way and negotiate as
much as we can so that we can have a
fair and equal trading relationship into the future. And I
hope that Canadians and Americans can have influence on their
(25:53):
governments to have them listen to the impact that is
going to have on all of us collectively.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Arlene, always nice talking to you. Thank you very much.
Speaker 10 (26:01):
Thanks Thanks Aan.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Arlie Dickinson a Canadian business person, also an investor on
the TV program Dragon's Den and a member of Canada's
Advisory Council on Canada US Relations, and she is in
Toronto this afternoon. Coming up, we'll speak to writer David
Frum from The Atlantic, a Canadian and American, about what
Trump's fifty first state rhetoric means for the state of
democracy around the world. And of course we would love
(26:24):
to hear from you. Our number is eight eight eight
four one six eight three three three. That number once again,
eight eight eight four one six eight three three three.
Speaker 15 (26:33):
Ay.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
And just to back up what Arlene was saying, if
you look at the numbers of the trade cross border,
especially when you look at something like cars automobiles, it's
almost equal imports to exports between the two countries. And
a lot of cars, a lot of the parts are
made on one side, they're sold on the other. But
the benefit in many areas of the economy is pretty equal.
(26:55):
Let's get back to the phones and rain Gerton who's
calling from Vancouver or we're broadcasting from rain Welcome and
go ahead with your thoughts.
Speaker 16 (27:05):
Well, thank you very much for the opportunity to be
on the show. I personally think it's highly concerning and
reprehensible that Trump would dare to suggest this. Let alone
continue to drill this notion. But beyond that, though, it's
concerning that practically no one else is coming to stand
up for us. I mean, one of the truly special
and unique aspects of Canada is that we're part of
(27:27):
the Commonwealth, which is like a group with shared values.
And what I really want to see is cure Starmer
make a move. This would be highly significant because in
all that's happened in recent weeks, it seems that surprisingly,
mister Starmer is someone that Trump has a level of
respect for. And I'm really curious as to what the
(27:49):
threshold is for other leaders to strongly come out in
support of Canada. I mean, haven't we learned from World
War Two about the dangers of an action and the
dangers of a piece.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
So you think that the British Prime Minister coming in
would make a difference here with Donald Trump?
Speaker 16 (28:08):
I genuinely think it would because He's another like really
strong global leader and a leader whom Trump seems to
actually care about the opinion of. Because Trump is willing
to negotiate with him about tariff, much faster than he
was with Tru Trudeau and much more willing to make
concessions with the UK. He almost seems to have a
(28:28):
level of respect, which I think is really interesting. And
for someone with that attention from Trump to say something.
Speaker 17 (28:36):
I think could have positive impactin you're a high school student, yes,
I am, yeah, and I think we have the permission
of your parent for you to be on You're seventeen
years old.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
But you know something I'm really curious about. I've asked
other callers this question. I'll ask you in high school
in Vancouver. Is Trump in particular the fifty first state
comments or a threat? Depending on your perspective. Is that
something your friends talk about?
Speaker 6 (29:02):
Absolutely?
Speaker 16 (29:03):
I mean I even have friends in the United States
who are talking to me about this and saying that
they're getting annoyed about this. But here in Thanksouver, my
friends and I just every time we see another news
story we roll our eyes and say, you've got to
be kidding me. Isn't he taking this far?
Speaker 6 (29:19):
Enough.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Ryan, Thank you very much. It's interesting to talk about
the news stories because I will tell you, on the
US side of the border, this is not one of
our top five things right now that we're talking about
because there are so many other things since Trump came in.
Let's get one more call in before a short break
for our US station's Margaret is in Cleveland, Ohio. Margaret,
(29:40):
what do you think about this? Do you take it seriously?
Speaker 7 (29:44):
Thank you for having me on the show.
Speaker 9 (29:46):
I'm member to do this so they from the United States.
You know, fifty more than fifty percent of us are
kind of being held hostage at this point. This is
how we feel every day. Something else that is that
we don't we don't agree with is this quote unquote
(30:10):
on our behalf. And he does not represent me, He
does not represent most of the people I know. So
when he says things like this, I would say, do
take him serious.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Well, and Margaret and your your your line's breaking up
a little bit. But I do want to ask you
one quick follow up. If you were to talk to
your your if you're to look across the lake and
and your Canadian friends on the other side, could hear you,
what would what would be your one message to them
right now.
Speaker 9 (30:40):
It may be bad to be our neighbor right now,
but imagine.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Being a US Okay, yeah, we like.
Speaker 9 (30:52):
Yeah, that's sort of like when someone else is crazy uncle, right,
you don't want to be around him, but you feel.
Speaker 16 (30:59):
Bad for the relative.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, so that's what you would say, Margaret, Margaret, thank you,
thank you very much for that call. Ian interesting to
hear that. So far, we're hearing a common theme here
on both sides of the border.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Yeah, and you know, she talks about, in her words,
the crazy uncle metaphor. When I was talking to a
host on se SPAN in the United States earlier and
we're being broadcast on se SPAN right now, I use
the analogy of Thanksgiving, whether it's October Thanksgiving in Canada
or November in the United States. But you know, you
have this family gathering and then people start saying things,
(31:36):
they get angry, and then somebody says something that crosses
the line, and you wonder, are you ever going to
be able to walk that back? And I wonder if
some of the rhetoric that's happening here will get us
to a point where it's going to be very, very
difficult to walk things back.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Well, and we're already seeing. Also in sporting events, there
was of course the big hockey game that Canada won, congratulations.
But also I saw there was just one in Philadelphia
where the the American national anthem was booed, but then
even the Americans were cheering the Canadian national anthem Philadelphia. Yes,
probably just as is a sign of you know, we're
(32:11):
sorry that this is happening right now. I'm Jeremy Hobson
along with Ian Hannah manstin coming to you live from
beautiful Vancouver. We want to hear from you about your
thoughts about President Trump's comments that Canada should be the
fifty first US state. And many Canadians may have been
caught by surprise when Trump started referring to Canada as
(32:32):
the fifty first state. But for those who have been
watching Trump closely, the way he speaks about Canada is
just one piece of his foreign policy perspective. David from
staff writer at The Atlantic. His latest book is called
Trump Apocalypse, Restoring American Democracy. He was also a speechwriter
for former President George W. Bush and has Canadian roots.
We've reached him in Vienna, Austria.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
David, welcome, thank you so much. David T and Hannah
man seing here, what do you think Trump's comments about
Canada becoming the fifty first state.
Speaker 18 (33:04):
Well, they're obviously intended fend to provoke. That's what so
many of us comments are intended to do. Let's let's
take it seriously for a moment. The story of the
modern world, and as you said, I'm speaking to you
from Austria, very hard at the hand of the modern
world has been that society's democratic societies can commune, can
(33:24):
cooperate across borders, retaining their own sovereignty and cooperating in
all kinds of creative ways for everything, lawn for national.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
A story of you know, David, I'm going to jump
in there. I'm I'm sorry to do this, but we're
having some problems with our internet connection and I'd like
us to take another shot at disconnecting from you and
reconnecting and hopefully we can get a better connection rather
than have the the audio problems we have. So let's
take a little bit of a break while we do that.
(33:59):
And Jeremy, whyting you want to take another Call's let's.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Go to a call. Who is Bill? Who is in
Burton British Columbia. Bill, welcome and what do you make
of the fifty first state comments from Trump?
Speaker 19 (34:12):
Well, actually not very much of it. And thank you
both for having me on the show. I think it's great.
Kudos to both. You see we see an NPR for
doing this. I think it's conversation should be had not
from Burton. Burton got sunk about forty years ago under
the higher damn. I am from Vernon, British Columbia, and
(34:34):
I do think it is a dreadful mistake, but for
reasons that really haven't been brought up until now, and
that is, we share a long distinguished history in North America.
In fact, maybe not that distinguished taking a consideration some
of our first Nations people. But the American experience in
(34:55):
North America has been very, very much different than the
Canadian and we have different values that drive us. I mean,
the Americans would seem to have life, liberty, and the
pursuit of happiness. We have peace, order and good government.
Our country was influenced on the east more by the
British experience and by our experience that the French that
(35:20):
were originally and are forming together of a nation in
the East that's extended from coast to coast to coast,
and consequently, ethnically, we're a whole lot different. We might
look the same, we're a lot different. We have a
single pay healthcare system costs, would never give up one.
(35:41):
And I'm not, by the way, and I'm not a
provisioness when it comes to firearms, but I have to
let you know that we don't have near the intensity
of firearms or other types of violence that exist out
in the state. In short, we're just you know, we're
(36:03):
very much different.
Speaker 6 (36:05):
Now.
Speaker 19 (36:06):
Is that a bad point? Not a toll in the
least to be right, we are capable of different perspectives,
for me, an alliance with our Mexican brethren and sister
and to do great things for the world.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah, yeah, I think we've got it. There's there are
different cultures. Thank you for that call. I I think
we could say some We say sorry and you say sorry.
So it's like tomato, tomato, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
And you say sorry as often as we do that.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
No, probably not.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Let's try David from Again, staff writer at The Atlantic.
He is in Vienna, Austria. So David, I know you've
stayed up really late to take part in the program,
I have my fingers crossed that our interconnect internet connection
is a little bit better than it was a moment ago.
And let me re ask you the first question from before,
because the audio wasn't so good. What do you make
of Trump's comments about Canada becoming the fifty first state?
Speaker 7 (36:59):
Well, I hope I am more audible. The story of
the post world world since nineteen forty five, democratic countries
have discovered ways to cooperate ever more intimately on everything
from law enforcement to environmental protection to national security, while
retaining independent sovereignty. So we have more in the democratic world,
more countries than ever, and more cooperation than ever. So
(37:22):
Trump's ideas, I mean the mentors control, they meant to offend,
they meant to provoke, but also primitive and falls because
the level before he became president, the level of cooperation
in the United States and Canada was so intimate in
so many ways. So what is the problem that he's
trying to solve. And if he thinks by annext in
(37:43):
Canada you get access to resources for free, well again
that's primitive. It's still a capitalist economy. He still haves it.
Do you want zinc from Canada? It still has to
be faith for. You want nickel from Canada, it still
has to be paid for, not just going to steal it.
You wouldn't steal it from American And one last thing,
if Trump and did enact Canada and said, okay, now
(38:05):
you're a fifty per state and we'll want to craig
with you freely and we won't have any tarriffs. If
the tarffs are a bad idea, if Canada is a
fifty first state, how do the tariffs become a good
idea when Canada is not a fifty fir state.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah, so, Canadian political leaders have unanimously soundly rejected what
Donald Trump is saying. In fact, he's done an unwitnting
job of uniting Canadian political leaders left right and centrist.
Polls show that the vast majority of Canadians don't like
the notion. They don't even like to talk about it,
(38:37):
and even in the United States, a poll from Angus
Reid suggests it isn't popular there either. You know a
little bit about the political world as a former speech
writer for President George W. Bush. Given that lack of popularity,
given that lack of traction in Canada, why does Trump
keep repeating these words?
Speaker 7 (38:57):
Well, because this is not just a Canada. One of
Donald Trump's serious priorities from the second presidency is to
break up the American led alliance system everywhere. He sent
his vice president to Munich a week ago to give
a speech endorsing the far right Alternative for Germany Party,
which just failed to win the election, alienating Germans, and
(39:17):
he started a trade war with Colombia, a country that
signed a free trade agreement with the United States in twenty twelve.
Trump's vision is of an America isolated. Therefore, he imagines
that will somehow make America more powerful. In fact, it
will make America more week. At every turn he serves
the interests of democracies enemies. The democratic system depends on
(39:39):
alliances and cooperation in trade between all the many democratic countries,
and Donald Trump seems to think that it's his job
to wreck that system and the only winners are the
world to tatorships, especially Russia, especially China.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
One last question for you, David, as a student, as
an observer, as a veteran of politics, what do you
think Canada should do as just keeps using this rhetoric
over and over again.
Speaker 7 (40:05):
Well, what Canada should do and what Canada has to
do are very different. Canada is preparing methods of retaliation.
But this is how relationships go bad that anyone has
been in any kind of intimate partnership knows. The moment
you start thinking how do I pay this back? How
do I hurt you as much as you hurt me,
the relationship is heading to a breakup altogether. And what
(40:26):
we need is an intervention where somebody needs to say
to this couple, you need to stop thinking about how
do you hurt how do you hurt each other? I'm sorry,
we remember why you need to help each other.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
But who does that?
Speaker 7 (40:42):
I hope it will be the American elective in their
good time, saying to this main act, knock it off.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
David. Always nice having you on the program, and I
do appreciate you staying up so late in Vienna. Thank
you very much for joining us. By David From, a
staff writer for The Atlantic. Our question today on Cross
Country Checkup and the Middle on Canadian and American radio
and television. What do you think of Trump's threats about
Canada becoming the fifty first state? Call us at one
(41:11):
eight eight eight four one six eight three three three.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
And by the way, if you are an American who
believes this is a good idea, we're open to your
comments as well. If you're a Canadian who thinks that
you want to be part of the United States, that
would be an interesting perspective to hear as well. We're
open to all on this program at eight eight eight
four one six eight three three three, and let's go
(41:35):
to another call. Linda Boudreau is with us from New Orleans, Louisiana. Linda,
go ahead with your thoughts about Trump's comments.
Speaker 8 (41:45):
Yes, every time I hear on the news they suck about,
you know, Trump wanting Canada to be a state.
Speaker 7 (41:52):
I laugh.
Speaker 8 (41:53):
I just I just spontaneously laugh. And the reason is
when when Trump ran in twenty sixteen, I was hesitant
to vote for him. I didn't know how he would
handle international politics. And a local business owner condenced me
that it was probably better to vote for him than
(42:13):
a third party candidate, which I've done twice in elections,
because I didn't like the Republican candidate because he would
get you know, constitutional judges on the Supreme Court, and
so I voted for him, and after that, I get
up every day let's see what Trump did today. Put
on the news, and he would say some outrageous things,
(42:34):
sometimes insulting people, and I would kind of cringe. I think, oh,
why does he have to do that? But I liked
everything that he implemented, you know, policy wise. And then
the thing happened with the North Korean president where he
said I have a bigger bomb than you do, and
I went, oh, my god, you know, and then I
(42:55):
saw how that worked out. And also I read that shortly,
you know, a couple of months after all that took place,
that the Dor Korean president had called up China and
was asking them does he mean it? And and that
was when I got it. I said, oh, I see
(43:17):
what he was doing. He I have found that he
never does anything you know, off the cup without thinking
it through.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
So so you think that he's do you think that
he's thought this through with with uh yeah, threatening?
Speaker 8 (43:32):
Yeah, But I don't. I just don't know how people
can take it as a serious threat. And then as
I'm starting to hear now the last day or two
about how Canadians are really upset, I'm thinking, well, I
can understand why they would be and why they would
steel threatened and uh, it's hard for me as an
American who you know, uh for this the United States
(43:53):
all my life and haven't lived in other countries to
I keep lately, you know, realizing how powerful the United
States is. That's interesting and the whole and and then
you know, we we like flant the whole world. And
I want to I want to see Canadians and Europeans
return to freedom and and I pray for them. You know,
(44:16):
when when the trucker thing went on in Canada, you know,
the lockdowns and stuff, the same thing was in Australia,
to uh, these are our Western allies, you know, And
and I thought, you know, we do. We do share
a lot, yes, culture wise, and I mean I know
there are differences, but but you know it bothers me.
(44:38):
I I want to and I think Trump wants that too, okay, And.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Then I think I think we've got it there. But
but thank you very much for that. Very interesting. A
Trump voter who says, by the way, I would say
Canadians would probably be saying to Linda, well, we do
have freedom right now. But still an interesting perspective.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah, also interesting her last name, there are a lot
of she pronounces a slightly different Woodrow, I think, but
there are a lot of Canadians, especially in eastern half
of Canada, who either had that last name or recognized
that last name. And she probably is one of those
from one of those Cajun families.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
In New Orleans you spell go g e a u
x okay.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
So, and I'm just saying she's Her family roots are
probably Quebec or the Maritimes. And and let's go to
William fun now, who's in Vancouver. And William, your family
roots are are in Hong Kong, but you live in Canada.
Speaker 15 (45:29):
Now, Hello, good afternoon, gentlemen. My name is William Hi,
and yes, my family originated from Hong Kong, but we
immigrated almost forty years ago, and my parents were from
I just want to, uh, how should we say, uh,
(45:50):
give a bit of family background before I go venture
forward with my ANSA sure, so my Nate parents they
were both they have both lived under Japanese occupation during
World War two, so they know how it feels like
to have the the property, way of life and even
life being strengthened and trampled, similar to what happened in
(46:12):
Hong Kong a few years ago as well as the
Ukraine right now. So at that time we considered, uh,
you know, during the early nineteen eighties when the British
and the Chinese were negotiating the handover of Hong Kong
without any participation or even representation from the Hong Kong
populace at that time, when they looked at other British
(46:35):
come countries as well as the United States too, and
we finally chose Canada because of the inclusiveness and the multiculturalism,
as well as almost no gun violence at that time.
And even though they are both passed on, I also
concurred with their choice and their view But if as
(46:58):
today's question of Canada possibly being coerced and next to
become the fifty first state of the United States, I
said earlier, because we chose Canada because of these particular viewpoints,
we're afraid that uh, you know, the Canada would not
(47:19):
uh become the desirable habitat that we have so far enjoyed.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Yeah, William, do you do you I know there are
a lot of Canadians who really don't think this would
ever come to pass. Do you feel like the threat
from Donald Trump could ever actually happen?
Speaker 16 (47:35):
Uh?
Speaker 15 (47:36):
I think this person because he has he and his
team have long thought thought of things. That's how they
that's why how, that's how, the reason why they can
roll out all these executive orders and everything so fast.
I don't think they just wake up one day and
just think, oh, I need to do this. So I
(47:57):
think they have something behind them. And because mister Trump
is on his second and last term, I believe that
he really wants to leave the legacy of being the
greatest American president ever. So if he can anenact Canada,
that would really help his legacy.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
You know, it's particularly interesting giving your giving your family
history and what you've seen in Hong Kong and China
that kind of informs your view of what you worry
about here. William, thank you very much for calling.
Speaker 15 (48:31):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
This is the great thing about a callin showed no
algorithms here, just amplifying the loudest voices or the angriest
voices you can. You're reaching so many people, and you
never know who's going to call in and what their
background is going to be. I'm going to sneak in
one more here before we take quick break. John in Detroit. John,
just thirty seconds here, But what are your thoughts about this.
Speaker 20 (48:52):
So I've lived on the border of Canada for almost
sixty years and I actually heard about the news on
CBC radio and was appalled, and I apologize. But this
is the USA and this is what we are. We
are an exploited people who came in here and exploited
(49:13):
people that were here for ten thousand years, stealing people
from their land and ocean's away and enslaved them. And
we still enslave them.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
John, let me ask you, are you noticing in Detroit
fewer Canadians coming through because I've heard in Bellingham, Washington,
for example, across the border, they're already seeing a big
drop in Canadian visitors.
Speaker 14 (49:37):
They're pulling out of events in Detroit, and they're ending
ferry service over here. Fur their senior citizens come over
here and they're going to stay over there and spend
their money.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
John Meyers calling from Detroit, Michigan. Thank you very much
for that call.
Speaker 6 (49:56):
Ian.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
So interesting to hear from people on both sides of
the border. Again, our number is eight eight eight four
one six eight three three three. That is eight eight
eight four one six eight three three three. Some of
the US stations are going to be breaking away in
a moment, But of course you can always reach us
online at CBC dot Ca slash air check. We were
(50:19):
worried that the Canadian callers very exercised about this, We're
going to jam up the phone lines. But as we've
been able to hear so far, we've been able to
hear from some Americans.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Well, and we've heard a lot of people at least two,
if not three callers from Michigan. Not too surprising when
you and I did a cross border conversation about a
month I guess before the US election. We were hosted
by WDET station de Troit, Detroit. Yeah, they were fantastic
and I don't doubt that there are probably a lot
of people listening to this program from WDET. And what
(50:51):
are some of the other stations, Oh.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Well, all across Country, WAMU and Washington Minnesota Public Radio,
last in Los Angeles. I'm just going to say right now,
I'm Jeremy Hobson from the Middle, which is available as
a podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm here with
Ian hannamancing of CBC's Cross Country Checkup, and you are
listening to a special live cross Border conversation
Hey, Middle podcast listeners, It's Jeremy Hobson.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
And Ian Hannah Mancing.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Ian Hannah Mancing, of course, the host of cross Country
Checkup at the CBC. We are coming to you from
Vancouver with the podcast a special edition today and tomorrow,
and it's a collaboration that we just did that was
live across the entire US and Canada on radio and television.
We're asking about something Ian that is very controversial here
(00:26):
all we've both gotten a lot of hate mail just
even for talking about this, but it is about Donald
Trump's suggestion that Canada become the fifty first state. As
outlandish of that as that may be, the whole idea
of the Middle is to allow ordinary people to weigh in,
not just hearing the extremes, and that's what we're going
to do here. So I hope you enjoyed this first
hour of the show today and we're going to drop
(00:46):
the second hour of the podcast tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
What I'd like to see Canada become our fifty first date.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I'm Ian Hannah Mancing, the host of cross Country Checkup
in Canada.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
A snowballs chance in hell that Canada will ever be
the fifty first state, and.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I'm Jeremy Hobson, the host of the middle in the US.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Canada and the United States.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
That would really be something.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
You get rid of that artificially drawn line. And it
would also be much better for national security. You know,
if again we basically protect Canada.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Live from Vancouver. This is a cross border conversation.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
You know, something to the President, I'll make them accounter offer.
How about if we buy Alaska and we'll throw in
Minnesota Minneapolis at the same time, So you know, it's
not realistic.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
The US and Canada have been longtime allies and neighbors.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
But when US President Donald Trump began musing and then
doubling and tripling down on Canada as the fifty first State,
tensions pushed us to the brink of a trade war.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Earlier this month, then Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau told
a group of business leaders on a hot mic that
Donald Trump's fifty first state comments are not a joke,
but in fact a real thing.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
And just last week, after a meeting with Canadian premiers,
Deputy White House Chief of Staff James Blair cautioned them
to take Donald Trump's comments about the fifty first state
quote at face value.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
But will Some see this as an attack on Canadian sovereignty.
Others believe the president is trolling and seeking negotiation leverage
for the next round of trade talks. So it's now
time to have your say.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Our question today, what do you think of Trump's comments
about Canada becoming the fifty first state. Our number is
one eight eight eight four one six eight three three
three one eight eight eight four one six eight three
three three.
Speaker 6 (02:37):
Canada as a whole would probably be better.
Speaker 7 (02:39):
Alberta definitely would be better as a state versus a province.
Speaker 8 (02:42):
I don't understand why Trump has to keep saying, oh,
the fifty first state.
Speaker 9 (02:47):
I'm telling you I will never wear red, white and blue.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
We're taking calls from both sides of the border, across
Canada and the United States, from Washington, d C. To
Los Angeles, Minnesota to Florida.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
We are already getting a huge volume of calls. And
if those of you in the United States are having
a hard time getting through on the phone, you can
go online to CBC dot Ca slash air check, so
that's CBC dot Ca slash air check and leave a
message and we will call you back. And of course
you can also try our regular number one eight eight
eight four one six eight three three three one eight
(03:23):
eight eight four one six eight three three three.
Speaker 10 (03:25):
It's an insult to Canadians to think that they're so
small that they would become a state of the US.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I don't think we should do it because man, well,
help to increase the add to the economy and everything else,
and I'll make it will strengthen us.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Our question this hour, what do you think of Trump's
comments about Canada becoming the fifty first state?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And let me give you that online address one more
time CBC dot caa slash air check.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
But why are we supporting a country two hundred billion
plus a year. Our military is at their disposal. They
should be a state. That's why I told Trudeau when
it can down, I said, well would happen if we
didn't do it?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
He said, Canada.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Would dissolve, Canada wouldn't be able to function.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I'm Jeremy Hobson and I'm mean Hannah Man sing across
Canada on CBC Radio and CBC News Network.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
At across America on public radio stations and c SPAN television.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
This is a live cross border conversation, a co production
between CBC and the Middle.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
For anyone who wants to watch us live on TikTok
or YouTube, you can find us at CBC News and I.
Before we get into this, it is worth noting a
lot of people are angry that we are even having
this conversation. They think it's an endorsement of Trump's suggestion
and an insult. You have been on the receiving end
of a lot of this.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
You know. We have received a lot of online comments
emails on some sensitive topics in the past, but nothing
like I've seen over the last forty eight hours. And
I should point out that there's no question that the
original show question that we had struck a nerve and
so never are intent to normalize the idea that Canada
(05:03):
would ever become the fifty first state. And so you know,
when people tell us that just doing this show is
normalizing Trump's comments and that it's dangerous, I should tell
you that we are very careful about how we do
a program like this. We are not in any way
endorsing what Trump has been saying. Many of you in
Canada spoke out, we listened, and as I mentioned, we
(05:24):
changed the show question to better reflect our aim here
and you know, the whole point of our show and
the Middle is to hear what those of you who
are listening and watching have to think. This is a
place where people can speak out on issues where politicians
up until now have been doing most of the talking.
I really think it's important for Americans to hear what
Canadians have to say, and Jeremy, I'm really interested in
(05:46):
hearing what Americans have to say.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Absolutely, And Americans may not know this because we've got
a lot going on in the United States right now,
but Canadians have actually been boycotting American products because of this,
have been canceling travel because of the tensions between the
two countries. But as I said, you know, right now
Americans are focused on Since Trump took office, he has
said he wants to take over Greenland, the Panama Canal, Gaza,
(06:11):
he wants the mineral rights in Ukraine. Not to mention
the thousands of federal workers being laid off indiscriminately or
just being told that they've got to tell the government
five things they did last week or be fired. And
egg prices in the United States through the roof. By
the way, egg prices here not bad. No, I should
bring some back with me. I legal, okay. That said,
(06:32):
there is no more important relationship than the one between
the US and Canada, and we do want to hear
from people on both sides of the border today, and
we will start this hour by saying that some of
what Trump says ends up happening, some of it is bluster.
So let's bring in someone who may be able to
help decipher all of that for US. Marillason is the
national political correspondent for NPR. She's in Washington, d C. Mark,
(06:55):
Great to have you with us. Do you think Trump
is being serious when he talks about Canada as the
fifty first state? Is he trolling justin Trudeau? Is it
a negotiating tactic one?
Speaker 4 (07:07):
I think it's all of those things. Every Trump troll
is a trial balloon. And you know, there's so many
things he says threatens, then he backs off. At the
time he says it, he probably means it completely seriously.
I think you should take him seriously and literally. I
do think that even though it's hard to make predictions,
especially about the future, Canada will not become the fifty
(07:29):
first state of the United States. And although it's clearly
a huge topic of conversation and consternation in Canada. It
is not as if Trump put any kind of thing
in motion in the United States. There's no congressional resolutions
to say we're inviting Canada to join us. There's no
effort on the Trump administration's part to get a referendum
(07:51):
in Canada scheduled on this, nothing at all. It was
an epic troll and it was meant to dominate and
humiliate Justin Trudeau, and that's why he continues to call
him Governor Trudeau. And the irony is that Trudeau could
have turned around and said, hey, beware of what you
wish for. We have more population than California. We'd have
(08:12):
more electoral votes than any state, and we'd vote blue
and a Republican would never win the White House if
we were the fifty first state.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Well, and from a Senate perspective, if they were playing
by Wyoming rules, they would have sixty sixty states and
one hundred and twenty senators in the USA. Yeah, that's
not how it works.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
The Senate is a minoritarian institution, but they'd have a
lot of.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
House members well, but many.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
That's based on pop population.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Well, and many people Mara are taking it seriously in Canada,
Canadian elections.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Ship it's an incredible insult.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, well listen here to the premier. Andrew Fury from
Newfoundland and Labrador spoke to the CBC after meeting at
the White House, and here's what he had to say.
Speaker 11 (08:53):
Unfortunately, in the meeting at the White House, the officials
confirmed that he is very serious about the fifty first
state comments. He said it to my count five or
six times now, so he's not only doubling down, he's
now taking a joke that was once a social post
and turning it into sustained rhetoric and a sustained attack
(09:16):
on Canada. I believe the tariff issues perhaps just conflation.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I do believe.
Speaker 11 (09:21):
That this president in particular has an imperialistic agenda, want
of expansion, and we need to take that as Canadians
very seriously. We need to take it as a not
just as an economic threat, but as a threat on
our sovereignty, on our Canadian values are in our Canadian identity.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Mar we think back to the first Trump term and
some of the things that he said that were pretty outlandish,
like a Muslim band did happen, or like the separation
of children from their families when they crossed illegally. Did happen?
Speaker 4 (09:51):
Well, those things are within the president's control. I mean,
he controls immigration. It's quite a different thing to say
that he can wave a magic wand and create Canada
as a the first state.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I mean, now, don't forget.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
He also floated we're going to take over Gaza. We're
going to own it, We're going to hold it. Well,
guess what, he's backed off from that because the Arab
nations said, forget it, We're not participating in the forced
expulsion of Palestinians from their land. So he does back off.
Look what happened when he floated the latest tariffs. The
market reacted, pulled him back for very very little concessions.
(10:24):
You know, what Canada and Mexico did was nothing really.
But so he often talks more than he does. But
I think that the Canadian politician you just played, he
is imperialist. He is expansionist. He believes in manifest destiny,
and he has talked about even he hasn't ruled out
(10:45):
using military force to take over Greenland or the Panama Canal.
He hasn't said he would use military force to take over.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Canada well, and you've got to giggle in your voice
there and there is something like is this a joke
or not? But at the same time.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
I don't think it's a joke.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
At what cost?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Also is is what costs to our relationship with ken
huge cost.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
First of all, don't forget Donald Trump has been very,
very busy dismantling the administrative state in the United States
and putting a stake through the heart of NATO, which,
of course Canada is our number one important ally and
in NATO, and he just you know, so so so
far the fifty first state idea hasn't gone beyond a
(11:27):
Trump patrol. But to just mention it at all will
diminish goodwill on the part of Canada towards America. You
see Canadians booing Americans at a hockey game. And you know,
Donald Trump doesn't believe in allies. He believes that we
are a big, powerful superpower. And if you're a smaller
(11:48):
country or in any way dependent on our largess or
our nuclear shield whatever, then you get you have to
do what he wants you to do. That's not how
the world works. I think you're going to see a
trem wave of anti American sentiment in Europe and in Canada.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
That's marle what the polls show there. Yeah, Ma Vaara,
thank you very much. Maria Leason, National political correspondent for NPR. Again,
our question is what do you think of Trump's comments
about Canada becoming the fifty first at our number eight
eight eight four one six eight three three three.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
We have a lot of things to juggle here, Jeremy,
because we've got two different television networks, two networks of
radio stations. We have lots of calls, but we have
to take a break in just a moment for the
NPR stations. And before we get there, let me read
an online comment from Rob McKinnon in Calgary, Alberta. He
went to CBC dot caa slash aircheck, which I recommend
(12:40):
to everybody, especially our US listeners, if you want to
make sure we hear your voice and know you want
to be on the program. Rob says, should Canada become
the fifty first state, it would encompass the largest geographical area,
be the most populated, most resource rich, and potentially the
most affluent state in the US, with a commensurate number
of seats in the House of repordsatives, it could exert
(13:01):
more influence on US national policy than any other state.
In short, it would become a mega state that the
president would have to treat with respect. We are going
to go to calls in just a moment after that
break for NPR. But a reminder for those of you
who are just tuning in in Canada and the United States,
the program is a cross border conversation. You can listen
(13:22):
live actually on the CBC Listen app or watch at
Cbcnews dot Ca. Our question on this program, what do
you think of Trump's comments about Canada becoming the fifty
first state? Our number eight eight eight four one six
eight three three three. I'm looking at the queue of calls.
Lots coming in. The next caller we're going to hear
(13:43):
is from Victoria, British Columbia.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
I'm Jeremy Hobson along with Ian hannah Man saying, coming
to you live from beautiful Vancouver. We want to hear
from you about your thoughts about President Trump's comments that
Canada should be the fifty first US state. We're taking
calls from both the United States and Canada. We are
going to go to our first call, and that is
Liz Moore, Uh Victor who's in Victoria, British Columbia. Liz Moore,
(14:11):
Welcome to the program. I want to hear from you.
You've lived in Canada all your life what Trump's comments
mean to you.
Speaker 12 (14:17):
Well, I have to say that I was born Canadian
in nineteen sixty one and I always imagine that I
was going to die at Canadian and I still will.
So in that respect, I'm going to stand, you know,
strong for Canada. I think we have to take a
look at just you know, past and the present now.
I mean, you look at Germany and Austria. They decided
they wanted.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
It, they took it.
Speaker 12 (14:38):
You know, you take a look at Ukraine, they decided,
Russia decided they wanted it. They're attempting to take it.
And we're, in my opinion, in the same position. So
I think it's Canadians we have to ask ourselves, you know,
what does Canada mean to us? I mean, the maple
leaf is on my passport, the maple leaf is on
my flag, and it means a lot to me. It
(14:59):
means everything to me. It's my country.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
But you think you think, you think, Liz, that that
Trump would actually take Canada by force.
Speaker 12 (15:10):
Absolutely, I have no doubt in my mind, I really don't.
And I think Canadians have to prepare for that reality.
And and and I want to say about you know,
you know, the United States. I run a company that
you know, I have a lot of agents that are
you know, US based agents. My company embraces US clients.
(15:33):
You know, this is really a kind of a travesty
to even have to think or ponder the fact that
we may not become the allies we always have been.
They've always, in my opinion, been our strongest ally. They're always,
in my opinion, been our protector. They're who I look
at when, you know, when we face you know, world
War three threats, I think of the United States and
(15:54):
thank thank god, they're on our side. We've always they've
always got our back. So this is really un fathomable
to me that things could, you know, flip on a
dime and we can be in this reality that we're
no longer Canada.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Liz, thank you so much for that. And it's it's
you hear the emotion there, and I think we're going
to hear a lot of that because for many people,
just the idea of talking about this that your closest
friend would say, we're going to take you over or
we want you to be the fifty first eight. Whether
you like it or not, it obviously has drawn a
lot of anger from many people on both sides of
the world. I bet we're going to hear from a
(16:28):
lot of Americans who feel the exact same way.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, and let's listen to an American right now. Paul
Appolito is in Rochester, New York. Hi, Paul, Hello, thank
you for.
Speaker 6 (16:40):
Taking my call. And if I could just jump right
in sure this is deeply, deeply said, I mean to
me to hear this conversation, and uh, just you know,
we've got the biggest buffoon in the world as our
buffoon in chief, and he's doing as usual, you know,
(17:00):
like you say, his usual trolling and clowning people. And
uh just to see that, it it just pains me
to see, you know, Canadians uh hurt by this and
and and the reactions from from everybody, uh, on both sides,
you know, starting with the hockey game and certainly starting
with stuff before that, and uh you know these now
(17:21):
these petty uh you know, we're not gonna sell American liquor.
We're not gonna you know, bring Canadian this and that.
It's just it's just so sad because my quick background.
I was born and raised in Buffalo, which I always
you know, to me, that was the uh whatever, the
eleventh Province. Uh, you know, living in Buffalo, being so
close I grew up within uh you know, the viewing
(17:44):
distance of the Peace Bridge. I learned how to play
hockey and fort erie. My family stayed at a place
called Crescent Beach, Ontario summers. Yeah, I fell in love
with Canada and uh this just like I said, this
is painful to see and uh, you know, I'm just
sorry that it ever had to happen to even get
to this point in this far, Paul.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So many calls that we want to get to. But
let me quickly ask you a follow up question. Among
your friends in Rochester, New York, do any of them
even know that this is going on? Do they talk
about it?
Speaker 6 (18:19):
You know, to be honest with you, I haven't heard them.
Let's talk about it. I'm sure if I was back
in Buffalo, I have a feeling that would be a
much different conversation, you know, being that close, you know,
like I said, looking across the river and knowing what's
going on. I will be honest, I don't hear that
much about it in Rochester.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
All right, Well, interesting to hear all of your perspective, Paul,
Thank you very much.
Speaker 6 (18:45):
You're quite welcome.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Let's just sneak one more call in here before we
go to our next guest, and Mark Raymond is calling
from Detroit, also right there on the border with Canada. Mark,
what do you think about Trump's comments on the US
Canada becoming the fifty first state.
Speaker 13 (19:03):
I was not a comfortable information to download. I've always
been I'm forty six years old. I've always been an American,
but I've always been fond of our Canadian relatives. And
I mean that as US as Americans in Canadians were
(19:27):
very much the same in a lot of respects. But
we have our borders and we have our fundamentals, and
I'll it's hard for me to talk about that.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Let me ask you this, Mark, do you take it seriously?
Do you think that do you think that it's for real?
Or do you think it's a negotiating tactic of some kind.
Speaker 13 (19:49):
Actually, I think it's more of a it is. I
don't think it was ever going to happen. I think
it was more of a psychological thing to use against
both sides. But here's here, I'll tell you right where
it rattled me.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
It was.
Speaker 13 (20:11):
For several years in the back of my mind, I've
always kept the idea that if I got too fed
up with the way our country was, that I could
also possibly just move to Canada. Outdoorsman, I have a
lot of uh I spent most of my time outdoors,
so I could very comfortably assimilate to a Canadian lifestyle.
(20:35):
And the threat it directed it hit directly to.
Speaker 7 (20:42):
My uh My, I'm hard to excite.
Speaker 6 (20:46):
Yeah, I'm usually.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Pretty comparty, but maybe but may decide that that you
want to to to move to Canada. Mark, thank you
very much for that call.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Let's try in a really interesting voice familiar to Canadians,
and I'll explain to those of you in the United
States who she is. Arlene Dickinson is a Canadian businesswoman,
an investor on a program called dragons Den that's the
Canadian version of the US TV show Shark Tank, though
dragons Den was on television first. Also a member of
a Canadian Advisory Council on Canada US Relations, and a
(21:17):
few weeks ago, she was in the room during Prime
Minister Trudeau's hot mike moment when he described Trump's fifty
first state threat as a real thing and didn't realize
that the microphone was carrying that to the media. And
we've reached her in Toronto High Arleen, Hey, and how
are you good. Well, let me ask you a question.
We've asked some of the callers, how realistically do you
take Donald Trump's fifty first state threats?
Speaker 10 (21:41):
I think about it in two ways. I think about
you know, you've been talking some of your callers have
been talking about whether or not this is just a
negotiating tactic, and you have to ask yourself a negotiating
tactic for what exactly. And so, you know, an economic
gore is can be debilitating to a nation. And so
it's not to me about you know, military power coming
(22:03):
in and trying to claim Canada. It's about trying to
claim our resources and our geography in order to help
protect the United States. And so I think there is
there is it is a real threat in terms of
wanting to make sure that the power and the resources
go to the United States, and to do that, they
(22:24):
need to harm candidate in the process. I will say
also the second part is that people don't do these things.
You know, this isn't the Americans or this isn't Canadians.
This is a government. This is a leader in President Trump,
who is making decisions that will impact Americans and Canadians
equally and have a large amount of hurt on their
(22:48):
wallets and on their way of life in order to
gain political power.
Speaker 14 (22:53):
Ar Lee.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Shortly after taking office, and we're talking less than two
months ago, Donald Trump said he would use economic force
to e leimonade the artificially drawn border his words, not mine,
between Canada and the United States. So let's talk about
the tariff threat. How is that a threat to Canadian sovereignty.
Speaker 10 (23:11):
Well, if we don't control our economy, if we don't
control our resources and everything to do with our own economy,
then we end up not having a sovereignty. What do
we have, What do we have control of? We don't
have control over the power of our trade and everything
that comes with it. So you know, ultimately the end
of the day, we need to protect our resources, we
(23:32):
need to protect our land, we need to protect the
power that we have, and we have great power. I
think Canadians realize that, you know, our resources, our minerals
are manufacturing, and our goods are very worthwhile and very
much necessary in the global scheme of things. So this
isn't just about what America wants. This is about what
the world needs, and Canada has that, and so holding
(23:54):
onto that and remembering that is really what's going to
protect our sovereignty.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
You know Kevin O'Leary, he was with you on Dragon's
Den at the beginning of that program, currently a Canadian
investor on Shark Tank, and he was an early proponent
of an economic union. And he also joined Alberta's premier
at mar A Lago to meet with Donald Trump. So
Kevin is promoting an economic union between Canada and the
United States. He talks about a common currency. We're going
(24:19):
to hear from him later, but I'd like to give
you the first word on that. An economic union. Do
you think that that would lead to greater prosperity for
both countries?
Speaker 10 (24:28):
No. I think an economic union in this case, where
somebody has so much more size and girth than what
we do, basically means handing over our economic future to
another nation. So this isn't a union. An union implies
that you have two parties coming together on equal footing.
That's not the case here. So what we have is
(24:48):
a country that if we did unite with them and
shared a dollar, we would be giving up everything, as
I said earlier, in terms of our economic capabilities and
our future. Oh, I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
One last thing, Arlene, sorry for jumping in there. We've
got a lot of Americans who are watching and listening
to this program live right now. What message do you
have for them.
Speaker 10 (25:11):
We have, for decades shared one of the largest, well
shared the largest border and trading relationship in the world.
That has been a free trading relationship that has benefited
both sides. The narrative that there is any subsidy or
any sort of benefit to Canadians through this is false.
(25:31):
I would ask you to just read the stats, understand
what's being said, and know that we value you as
friends and neighbors. Americans are not our enemies. We want
to end this in a peaceful way and negotiate as
much as we can so that we can have a
fair and equal trading relationship into the future. And I
hope that Canadians and Americans can have influence on their
(25:53):
governments to have them listen to the impact that is
going to have on all of us collectively.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Arlene, always nice talking to you. Thank you very much.
Speaker 10 (26:01):
Thanks Thanks Aan.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Arlie Dickinson a Canadian business person, also an investor on
the TV program Dragon's Den and a member of Canada's
Advisory Council on Canada US Relations, and she is in
Toronto this afternoon. Coming up, we'll speak to writer David
Frum from The Atlantic, a Canadian and American, about what
Trump's fifty first state rhetoric means for the state of
democracy around the world. And of course we would love
(26:24):
to hear from you. Our number is eight eight eight
four one six eight three three three. That number once again,
eight eight eight four one six eight three three three.
Speaker 15 (26:33):
Ay.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
And just to back up what Arlene was saying, if
you look at the numbers of the trade cross border,
especially when you look at something like cars automobiles, it's
almost equal imports to exports between the two countries. And
a lot of cars, a lot of the parts are
made on one side, they're sold on the other. But
the benefit in many areas of the economy is pretty equal.
(26:55):
Let's get back to the phones and rain Gerton who's
calling from Vancouver or we're broadcasting from rain Welcome and
go ahead with your thoughts.
Speaker 16 (27:05):
Well, thank you very much for the opportunity to be
on the show. I personally think it's highly concerning and
reprehensible that Trump would dare to suggest this. Let alone
continue to drill this notion. But beyond that, though, it's
concerning that practically no one else is coming to stand
up for us. I mean, one of the truly special
and unique aspects of Canada is that we're part of
(27:27):
the Commonwealth, which is like a group with shared values.
And what I really want to see is cure Starmer
make a move. This would be highly significant because in
all that's happened in recent weeks, it seems that surprisingly,
mister Starmer is someone that Trump has a level of
respect for. And I'm really curious as to what the
(27:49):
threshold is for other leaders to strongly come out in
support of Canada. I mean, haven't we learned from World
War Two about the dangers of an action and the
dangers of a piece.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
So you think that the British Prime Minister coming in
would make a difference here with Donald Trump?
Speaker 16 (28:08):
I genuinely think it would because He's another like really
strong global leader and a leader whom Trump seems to
actually care about the opinion of. Because Trump is willing
to negotiate with him about tariff, much faster than he
was with Tru Trudeau and much more willing to make
concessions with the UK. He almost seems to have a
(28:28):
level of respect, which I think is really interesting. And
for someone with that attention from Trump to say something.
Speaker 17 (28:36):
I think could have positive impactin you're a high school student, yes,
I am, yeah, and I think we have the permission
of your parent for you to be on You're seventeen
years old.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
But you know something I'm really curious about. I've asked
other callers this question. I'll ask you in high school
in Vancouver. Is Trump in particular the fifty first state
comments or a threat? Depending on your perspective. Is that
something your friends talk about?
Speaker 6 (29:02):
Absolutely?
Speaker 16 (29:03):
I mean I even have friends in the United States
who are talking to me about this and saying that
they're getting annoyed about this. But here in Thanksouver, my
friends and I just every time we see another news
story we roll our eyes and say, you've got to
be kidding me. Isn't he taking this far?
Speaker 6 (29:19):
Enough.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Ryan, Thank you very much. It's interesting to talk about
the news stories because I will tell you, on the
US side of the border, this is not one of
our top five things right now that we're talking about
because there are so many other things since Trump came in.
Let's get one more call in before a short break
for our US station's Margaret is in Cleveland, Ohio. Margaret,
(29:40):
what do you think about this? Do you take it seriously?
Speaker 7 (29:44):
Thank you for having me on the show.
Speaker 9 (29:46):
I'm member to do this so they from the United States.
You know, fifty more than fifty percent of us are
kind of being held hostage at this point. This is
how we feel every day. Something else that is that
we don't we don't agree with is this quote unquote
(30:10):
on our behalf. And he does not represent me, He
does not represent most of the people I know. So
when he says things like this, I would say, do
take him serious.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Well, and Margaret and your your your line's breaking up
a little bit. But I do want to ask you
one quick follow up. If you were to talk to
your your if you're to look across the lake and
and your Canadian friends on the other side, could hear you,
what would what would be your one message to them
right now.
Speaker 9 (30:40):
It may be bad to be our neighbor right now,
but imagine.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Being a US Okay, yeah, we like.
Speaker 9 (30:52):
Yeah, that's sort of like when someone else is crazy uncle, right,
you don't want to be around him, but you feel.
Speaker 16 (30:59):
Bad for the relative.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, so that's what you would say, Margaret, Margaret, thank you,
thank you very much for that call. Ian interesting to
hear that. So far, we're hearing a common theme here
on both sides of the border.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Yeah, and you know, she talks about, in her words,
the crazy uncle metaphor. When I was talking to a
host on se SPAN in the United States earlier and
we're being broadcast on se SPAN right now, I use
the analogy of Thanksgiving, whether it's October Thanksgiving in Canada
or November in the United States. But you know, you
have this family gathering and then people start saying things,
(31:36):
they get angry, and then somebody says something that crosses
the line, and you wonder, are you ever going to
be able to walk that back? And I wonder if
some of the rhetoric that's happening here will get us
to a point where it's going to be very, very
difficult to walk things back.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Well, and we're already seeing. Also in sporting events, there
was of course the big hockey game that Canada won, congratulations.
But also I saw there was just one in Philadelphia
where the the American national anthem was booed, but then
even the Americans were cheering the Canadian national anthem Philadelphia. Yes,
probably just as is a sign of you know, we're
(32:11):
sorry that this is happening right now. I'm Jeremy Hobson
along with Ian Hannah manstin coming to you live from
beautiful Vancouver. We want to hear from you about your
thoughts about President Trump's comments that Canada should be the
fifty first US state. And many Canadians may have been
caught by surprise when Trump started referring to Canada as
(32:32):
the fifty first state. But for those who have been
watching Trump closely, the way he speaks about Canada is
just one piece of his foreign policy perspective. David from
staff writer at The Atlantic. His latest book is called
Trump Apocalypse, Restoring American Democracy. He was also a speechwriter
for former President George W. Bush and has Canadian roots.
We've reached him in Vienna, Austria.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
David, welcome, thank you so much. David T and Hannah
man seing here, what do you think Trump's comments about
Canada becoming the fifty first state.
Speaker 18 (33:04):
Well, they're obviously intended fend to provoke. That's what so
many of us comments are intended to do. Let's let's
take it seriously for a moment. The story of the
modern world, and as you said, I'm speaking to you
from Austria, very hard at the hand of the modern
world has been that society's democratic societies can commune, can
(33:24):
cooperate across borders, retaining their own sovereignty and cooperating in
all kinds of creative ways for everything, lawn for national.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
A story of you know, David, I'm going to jump
in there. I'm I'm sorry to do this, but we're
having some problems with our internet connection and I'd like
us to take another shot at disconnecting from you and
reconnecting and hopefully we can get a better connection rather
than have the the audio problems we have. So let's
take a little bit of a break while we do that.
(33:59):
And Jeremy, whyting you want to take another Call's let's.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Go to a call. Who is Bill? Who is in
Burton British Columbia. Bill, welcome and what do you make
of the fifty first state comments from Trump?
Speaker 19 (34:12):
Well, actually not very much of it. And thank you
both for having me on the show. I think it's great.
Kudos to both. You see we see an NPR for
doing this. I think it's conversation should be had not
from Burton. Burton got sunk about forty years ago under
the higher damn. I am from Vernon, British Columbia, and
(34:34):
I do think it is a dreadful mistake, but for
reasons that really haven't been brought up until now, and
that is, we share a long distinguished history in North America.
In fact, maybe not that distinguished taking a consideration some
of our first Nations people. But the American experience in
(34:55):
North America has been very, very much different than the
Canadian and we have different values that drive us. I mean,
the Americans would seem to have life, liberty, and the
pursuit of happiness. We have peace, order and good government.
Our country was influenced on the east more by the
British experience and by our experience that the French that
(35:20):
were originally and are forming together of a nation in
the East that's extended from coast to coast to coast,
and consequently, ethnically, we're a whole lot different. We might
look the same, we're a lot different. We have a
single pay healthcare system costs, would never give up one.
(35:41):
And I'm not, by the way, and I'm not a
provisioness when it comes to firearms, but I have to
let you know that we don't have near the intensity
of firearms or other types of violence that exist out
in the state. In short, we're just you know, we're
(36:03):
very much different.
Speaker 6 (36:05):
Now.
Speaker 19 (36:06):
Is that a bad point? Not a toll in the
least to be right, we are capable of different perspectives,
for me, an alliance with our Mexican brethren and sister
and to do great things for the world.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah, yeah, I think we've got it. There's there are
different cultures. Thank you for that call. I I think
we could say some We say sorry and you say sorry.
So it's like tomato, tomato, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
And you say sorry as often as we do that.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
No, probably not.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Let's try David from Again, staff writer at The Atlantic.
He is in Vienna, Austria. So David, I know you've
stayed up really late to take part in the program,
I have my fingers crossed that our interconnect internet connection
is a little bit better than it was a moment ago.
And let me re ask you the first question from before,
because the audio wasn't so good. What do you make
of Trump's comments about Canada becoming the fifty first state?
Speaker 7 (36:59):
Well, I hope I am more audible. The story of
the post world world since nineteen forty five, democratic countries
have discovered ways to cooperate ever more intimately on everything
from law enforcement to environmental protection to national security, while
retaining independent sovereignty. So we have more in the democratic world,
more countries than ever, and more cooperation than ever. So
(37:22):
Trump's ideas, I mean the mentors control, they meant to offend,
they meant to provoke, but also primitive and falls because
the level before he became president, the level of cooperation
in the United States and Canada was so intimate in
so many ways. So what is the problem that he's
trying to solve. And if he thinks by annext in
(37:43):
Canada you get access to resources for free, well again
that's primitive. It's still a capitalist economy. He still haves it.
Do you want zinc from Canada? It still has to
be faith for. You want nickel from Canada, it still
has to be paid for, not just going to steal it.
You wouldn't steal it from American And one last thing,
if Trump and did enact Canada and said, okay, now
(38:05):
you're a fifty per state and we'll want to craig
with you freely and we won't have any tarriffs. If
the tarffs are a bad idea, if Canada is a
fifty first state, how do the tariffs become a good
idea when Canada is not a fifty fir state.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah, so, Canadian political leaders have unanimously soundly rejected what
Donald Trump is saying. In fact, he's done an unwitnting
job of uniting Canadian political leaders left right and centrist.
Polls show that the vast majority of Canadians don't like
the notion. They don't even like to talk about it,
(38:37):
and even in the United States, a poll from Angus
Reid suggests it isn't popular there either. You know a
little bit about the political world as a former speech
writer for President George W. Bush. Given that lack of popularity,
given that lack of traction in Canada, why does Trump
keep repeating these words?
Speaker 7 (38:57):
Well, because this is not just a Canada. One of
Donald Trump's serious priorities from the second presidency is to
break up the American led alliance system everywhere. He sent
his vice president to Munich a week ago to give
a speech endorsing the far right Alternative for Germany Party,
which just failed to win the election, alienating Germans, and
(39:17):
he started a trade war with Colombia, a country that
signed a free trade agreement with the United States in twenty twelve.
Trump's vision is of an America isolated. Therefore, he imagines
that will somehow make America more powerful. In fact, it
will make America more week. At every turn he serves
the interests of democracies enemies. The democratic system depends on
(39:39):
alliances and cooperation in trade between all the many democratic countries,
and Donald Trump seems to think that it's his job
to wreck that system and the only winners are the
world to tatorships, especially Russia, especially China.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
One last question for you, David, as a student, as
an observer, as a veteran of politics, what do you
think Canada should do as just keeps using this rhetoric
over and over again.
Speaker 7 (40:05):
Well, what Canada should do and what Canada has to
do are very different. Canada is preparing methods of retaliation.
But this is how relationships go bad that anyone has
been in any kind of intimate partnership knows. The moment
you start thinking how do I pay this back? How
do I hurt you as much as you hurt me,
the relationship is heading to a breakup altogether. And what
(40:26):
we need is an intervention where somebody needs to say
to this couple, you need to stop thinking about how
do you hurt how do you hurt each other? I'm sorry,
we remember why you need to help each other.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
But who does that?
Speaker 7 (40:42):
I hope it will be the American elective in their
good time, saying to this main act, knock it off.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
David. Always nice having you on the program, and I
do appreciate you staying up so late in Vienna. Thank
you very much for joining us. By David From, a
staff writer for The Atlantic. Our question today on Cross
Country Checkup and the Middle on Canadian and American radio
and television. What do you think of Trump's threats about
Canada becoming the fifty first state? Call us at one
(41:11):
eight eight eight four one six eight three three three.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
And by the way, if you are an American who
believes this is a good idea, we're open to your
comments as well. If you're a Canadian who thinks that
you want to be part of the United States, that
would be an interesting perspective to hear as well. We're
open to all on this program at eight eight eight
four one six eight three three three, and let's go
(41:35):
to another call. Linda Boudreau is with us from New Orleans, Louisiana. Linda,
go ahead with your thoughts about Trump's comments.
Speaker 8 (41:45):
Yes, every time I hear on the news they suck about,
you know, Trump wanting Canada to be a state.
Speaker 7 (41:52):
I laugh.
Speaker 8 (41:53):
I just I just spontaneously laugh. And the reason is
when when Trump ran in twenty sixteen, I was hesitant
to vote for him. I didn't know how he would
handle international politics. And a local business owner condenced me
that it was probably better to vote for him than
(42:13):
a third party candidate, which I've done twice in elections,
because I didn't like the Republican candidate because he would
get you know, constitutional judges on the Supreme Court, and
so I voted for him, and after that, I get
up every day let's see what Trump did today. Put
on the news, and he would say some outrageous things,
(42:34):
sometimes insulting people, and I would kind of cringe. I think, oh,
why does he have to do that? But I liked
everything that he implemented, you know, policy wise. And then
the thing happened with the North Korean president where he
said I have a bigger bomb than you do, and
I went, oh, my god, you know, and then I
(42:55):
saw how that worked out. And also I read that shortly,
you know, a couple of months after all that took place,
that the Dor Korean president had called up China and
was asking them does he mean it? And and that
was when I got it. I said, oh, I see
(43:17):
what he was doing. He I have found that he
never does anything you know, off the cup without thinking
it through.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
So so you think that he's do you think that
he's thought this through with with uh yeah, threatening?
Speaker 8 (43:32):
Yeah, But I don't. I just don't know how people
can take it as a serious threat. And then as
I'm starting to hear now the last day or two
about how Canadians are really upset, I'm thinking, well, I
can understand why they would be and why they would
steel threatened and uh, it's hard for me as an
American who you know, uh for this the United States
(43:53):
all my life and haven't lived in other countries to
I keep lately, you know, realizing how powerful the United
States is. That's interesting and the whole and and then
you know, we we like flant the whole world. And
I want to I want to see Canadians and Europeans
return to freedom and and I pray for them. You know,
(44:16):
when when the trucker thing went on in Canada, you know,
the lockdowns and stuff, the same thing was in Australia,
to uh, these are our Western allies, you know, And
and I thought, you know, we do. We do share
a lot, yes, culture wise, and I mean I know
there are differences, but but you know it bothers me.
(44:38):
I I want to and I think Trump wants that too, okay, And.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Then I think I think we've got it there. But
but thank you very much for that. Very interesting. A
Trump voter who says, by the way, I would say
Canadians would probably be saying to Linda, well, we do
have freedom right now. But still an interesting perspective.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah, also interesting her last name, there are a lot
of she pronounces a slightly different Woodrow, I think, but
there are a lot of Canadians, especially in eastern half
of Canada, who either had that last name or recognized
that last name. And she probably is one of those
from one of those Cajun families.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
In New Orleans you spell go g e a u
x okay.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
So, and I'm just saying she's Her family roots are
probably Quebec or the Maritimes. And and let's go to
William fun now, who's in Vancouver. And William, your family
roots are are in Hong Kong, but you live in Canada.
Speaker 15 (45:29):
Now, Hello, good afternoon, gentlemen. My name is William Hi,
and yes, my family originated from Hong Kong, but we
immigrated almost forty years ago, and my parents were from
I just want to, uh, how should we say, uh,
(45:50):
give a bit of family background before I go venture
forward with my ANSA sure, so my Nate parents they
were both they have both lived under Japanese occupation during
World War two, so they know how it feels like
to have the the property, way of life and even
life being strengthened and trampled, similar to what happened in
(46:12):
Hong Kong a few years ago as well as the
Ukraine right now. So at that time we considered, uh,
you know, during the early nineteen eighties when the British
and the Chinese were negotiating the handover of Hong Kong
without any participation or even representation from the Hong Kong
populace at that time, when they looked at other British
(46:35):
come countries as well as the United States too, and
we finally chose Canada because of the inclusiveness and the multiculturalism,
as well as almost no gun violence at that time.
And even though they are both passed on, I also
concurred with their choice and their view But if as
(46:58):
today's question of Canada possibly being coerced and next to
become the fifty first state of the United States, I
said earlier, because we chose Canada because of these particular viewpoints,
we're afraid that uh, you know, the Canada would not
(47:19):
uh become the desirable habitat that we have so far enjoyed.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Yeah, William, do you do you I know there are
a lot of Canadians who really don't think this would
ever come to pass. Do you feel like the threat
from Donald Trump could ever actually happen?
Speaker 16 (47:35):
Uh?
Speaker 15 (47:36):
I think this person because he has he and his
team have long thought thought of things. That's how they
that's why how, that's how, the reason why they can
roll out all these executive orders and everything so fast.
I don't think they just wake up one day and
just think, oh, I need to do this. So I
(47:57):
think they have something behind them. And because mister Trump
is on his second and last term, I believe that
he really wants to leave the legacy of being the
greatest American president ever. So if he can anenact Canada,
that would really help his legacy.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
You know, it's particularly interesting giving your giving your family
history and what you've seen in Hong Kong and China
that kind of informs your view of what you worry
about here. William, thank you very much for calling.
Speaker 15 (48:31):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
This is the great thing about a callin showed no
algorithms here, just amplifying the loudest voices or the angriest
voices you can. You're reaching so many people, and you
never know who's going to call in and what their
background is going to be. I'm going to sneak in
one more here before we take quick break. John in Detroit. John,
just thirty seconds here, But what are your thoughts about this.
Speaker 20 (48:52):
So I've lived on the border of Canada for almost
sixty years and I actually heard about the news on
CBC radio and was appalled, and I apologize. But this
is the USA and this is what we are. We
are an exploited people who came in here and exploited
(49:13):
people that were here for ten thousand years, stealing people
from their land and ocean's away and enslaved them. And
we still enslave them.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
John, let me ask you, are you noticing in Detroit
fewer Canadians coming through because I've heard in Bellingham, Washington,
for example, across the border, they're already seeing a big
drop in Canadian visitors.
Speaker 14 (49:37):
They're pulling out of events in Detroit, and they're ending
ferry service over here. Fur their senior citizens come over
here and they're going to stay over there and spend
their money.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
John Meyers calling from Detroit, Michigan. Thank you very much
for that call.
Speaker 6 (49:56):
Ian.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
So interesting to hear from people on both sides of
the border. Again, our number is eight eight eight four
one six eight three three three. That is eight eight
eight four one six eight three three three. Some of
the US stations are going to be breaking away in
a moment, But of course you can always reach us
online at CBC dot Ca slash air check. We were
(50:19):
worried that the Canadian callers very exercised about this, We're
going to jam up the phone lines. But as we've
been able to hear so far, we've been able to
hear from some Americans.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Well, and we've heard a lot of people at least two,
if not three callers from Michigan. Not too surprising when
you and I did a cross border conversation about a
month I guess before the US election. We were hosted
by WDET station de Troit, Detroit. Yeah, they were fantastic
and I don't doubt that there are probably a lot
of people listening to this program from WDET. And what
(50:51):
are some of the other stations, Oh.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Well, all across Country, WAMU and Washington Minnesota Public Radio,
last in Los Angeles. I'm just going to say right now,
I'm Jeremy Hobson from the Middle, which is available as
a podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm here with
Ian hannamancing of CBC's Cross Country Checkup, and you are
listening to a special live cross Border conversation
Host
Jeremy Hobson
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