September 5, 2025 • 49 mins
On this episode of The Middle, we talk about the biggest challenges facing Generation Z. Jeremy is joined by YouTuber Madisyn Brown and San Diego State University psychology professor Jean Twenge, author of the book 10 Rules for Raising Kids in a High-Tech World. DJ Tolliver joins as well, plus calls from around the country. #GenZ #housing #socialmedia #mentalhealth #homeownership #TikTok #IG #YouTube
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Support for the Middle comes from the stations that air
the show and from you. Thanks for making a donation
at listen toothemiddle dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson along with our
house DJ Tolliver and Tolliver. As you know, on almost
every show that we do, we get calls from people
who are part of Generation Z, which means they were
born between nineteen ninety seven and twenty twelve.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Yeah, and we get some Jenna alphas too.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Let's not forget the next one. Those are the younger ones,
right him Man Madison, Perry, Harry Hip. So this hour,
I am counting on our gen Z listeners to flood
the phone lines at eight four four four six four
through three five three because we want to talk about
the challenges that you are facing. Gen Z was, of
course the first generation to grow up online, with social
media taking up hours of their days. The lives of
(00:51):
people in gen Z were also uniquely impacted by the
COVID pandemic, something that interrupted schooling and broke down how
many people talk and communicate. Gen Z also faces a
very tough economics situation. Aside from increasing rental prices and
interest rates, that make owning a home very difficult for many.
Older workers are staying in their jobs longer, which means
(01:13):
the job market is also a challenge. So our question
this hour what are the biggest challenges for Generation Z
and what can we do about them? The number is
eight four four four middle. That's eight four four four
six four three three five three. We'll get to your
calls in just a moment. But first, last week on
the show, we asked for your thoughts on the aggressive
immigration enforcement tactics being used by the Trump administration. Here
(01:34):
are some of the comments we got in our voicemail.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
My name is Alclsnak. I'm calling from Conway, New Hampshire.
I think the ice raids are good. We certainly have
an immigration crisis in this country and they needed to
do something about it. I think it's the wrong way
doing it.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
Hey, first name one. I am American born, but of
Dominican parents. If you had spoken to any Hispanic person,
we could have told you this was coming. Yes, what
Trump is doing is harsh, but it wouldn't have gotten
to this point if the previous administration would have taken
immigration seriously.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
I'm Garrett going in from Kansas. Here there's somebody who
self identifies as a middle right. Politically, I think the
current immigration policy it's based in a good principle, which
is sponsoring the legal immigrations planation, and it's been taken
away out of proportion. I think there's a lot of
unfortunate tactics being employed, and while some of it's certainly
sensationalized by the media, I also think that striking fear
(02:30):
into the hearts of illegal immigrants instead of changing the
way immigration is done, I think that's the wrong way
to go about it.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Well, thanks to everyone who called in. You can hear
that entire episode. Wherever you listen to podcasts is subscribe
to the Middle. So now to our question this hour,
what are the biggest challenges facing gen Z and what
can be done about them? Tolliver, how can people reach us?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
You can call us at eight four four four Middle
that's eight four four four sixty four three three five three,
or you can write to us at Listen to the
Middle dot com. But gen Z, if you rather comment
are YouTube do we still have twitch, Jeremy.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
We're on twitch, yep and Instagram, yep, all of everywhere.
You can comment that all lines. You better check especially
hard today because they may not want to use the phones,
although they sometimes do. On this show. Joining me this
hour Madison Brown, a Gen Z YouTuber who discusses many
of the challenges facing her generation on her channel, Madison.
Welcome to the middle.
Speaker 7 (03:21):
Hi, thank you for having.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Me, Thanks for being here. And Gene Twinkie is with
us as well, professor of psychology at San Diego State
University and author of the new book Ten Rules for
Raising Kids in a High Tech World and the old
book Generations. Gene, great to have you on.
Speaker 8 (03:35):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Well, before we get to the phones, Gene, you've studied
generations for a very long time. What is different about
Generation Z than the others?
Speaker 8 (03:45):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (03:45):
A lot of things. And I always want to make
clear right from the jump that when I'm talking about
generational differences, I'm talking about empirical data, and when it's
survey data, it is from young people themselves. This is
not older people wagging their fingers in saying, oh, I
don't know about these kids today. This is what young
people are saying themselves. Or we've got government data on
(04:06):
incomes things like that. So the biggest change from my
perspective and the survey data is in that switch from
millennials to gen Z is the switch from optimism to pessimism,
from mental health indicators being either stable or improving to
(04:29):
getting markedly worse across pretty much every indicator.
Speaker 8 (04:32):
So it's just one example.
Speaker 9 (04:35):
Teen and young adult depression doubled between twenty eleven and
twenty nineteen, so even before the pandemic.
Speaker 8 (04:42):
And these are really.
Speaker 9 (04:44):
Large changes that happen in a very short period of time.
Speaker 8 (04:46):
In all my decades of doing.
Speaker 9 (04:48):
Research on generational differences, I've never seen anything like it.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
And do you think that that's because of social media?
Speaker 9 (04:55):
That was what I finally figured out. So when I
first started to see these change, which is I really
had absolutely no idea what could be causing them. They
were misaligned with economic cycles. The Great Recession was finally
over and things are starting to improve around twenty eleven
or twenty twelve, when teen depression was going up. It's
tough to think of an event that happened at that
(05:17):
time that reverberated across a decade, especially internationally, because we
eventually figured out that these trends were appearing internationally as well, Australia,
in the UK, where some of the US based explanations
didn't really fit. But one thing that did fit that
had a huge impact on the way that young people
spend their time was the rise of the smartphone and
(05:40):
the social media. The end of twenty twelve was the
first time the majority of Americans owned a smartphone.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Interesting, madisone, What do you think about all of that
as a member of Generation Z. What are the unique
challenges for your generation?
Speaker 6 (05:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (05:55):
I mean, as Deane was talking, I was thinking, like, yeah,
like it really is that. I don't know what I
can say that dphone. It's that phone, Like it's so
all encompassing with all the issues that we face, especially socially.
There are financial aspects that Gen Z is facing that
I don't think has much to do with social media.
(06:15):
But when it comes to like the loneliness and our
kind of an ability to socialize like other past generations,
it does come down to the phone. Even micro things
that I talk about, like fashion, micro trends and how
people adopt personal style, how people shop. It all comes
(06:36):
back to social media and the way that it's completely
changed the way that we interact with each other or
don't interact with each other, and It's a tough one
because obviously my job is social media. I've made a
living off of it. It's completely changed my life. So
it's not that I think, you know, social media is
bad and we should.
Speaker 8 (06:56):
Never use it.
Speaker 7 (06:57):
But unfortunately, something that I think was meant to be
a tool at first has now become our whole universe,
and I think my generation is trying to figure out
how can we have a balanced life with it and
also like you know, live our lives at the same time.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
You know, my generation, I was about eighteen years old
when nine to eleven happened. That was a real, you know,
really impactful moment for the country and for my generation.
What about COVID What kind of an effect do you
think COVID had on your generation, Madison differently than other generations.
Speaker 7 (07:37):
Yeah, I mean the first thing that comes to my
mind is club culture, nightlife, things like that. I also
think social media has its own influence on how we
deal with that. But we've gotten so used to staying
at home. And I don't know if you've heard this
or I noticed this, but a lot of people in
(07:58):
my generational when a lot lot of people in my
generation will make this joke like My love language is
getting a text that's canceling plans, and people are now
excited when someone cancels plans really, and I yeah, it's
really weird, and it's something that's always kind of bothered
(08:18):
me as someone who likes to see their friends. I'm like,
is that really how you feel like? I want to
hang out with you? Not that anyone has said that
to me personally, but that seems to be like this
common mentality. And I think the pandemic has only made
that worse because I don't remember if I saw jokes
like that before the pandemic, but definitely afterwards, because everyone's
(08:42):
about protecting their peace and staying at home, and you know,
the discomfort that you have to go through when going out,
like waiting in line or like getting the bartender to come.
Speaker 8 (08:53):
Over to you.
Speaker 7 (08:54):
All that stuff doesn't have to happen if you stay home.
And of course, yeah, no one wants to wait in
line and stuff, but that's what makes the experience and
any sort of discomfort. I think my generation has become
really intolerant too, and I think the pandemic contributed a
lot to that.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I'll just say, as a virgo, I hate it when
people cancel plans Gene. As we have this conversation, a
lot of our listeners are not gen Z, even though
Tolliver sometimes says that he is, He's in fact a
millennial like me. Why do the challenges facing gen Z
matter to other generations?
Speaker 9 (09:26):
Gene, Oh, for so many, many many reasons. So first,
you know, we're talking about smartphones and social media. They
have definitely had the biggest impact on gen Z, including
and how much time they spend with friends and family
face to face. But that has had an effect on everyone.
(09:47):
Social media kind of taking over has had an impact
on all generations. Plus I give a lot of talks
on generations in the workplace. Well, we all have to
understand each other. We all have to get along. And
when you have the pronounced generational breaks like the one
that you see between millennials and gen Z in particular,
there could be a lot of frustration and misunderstandings if
(10:09):
people don't understand those differences and can roll with them.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Very interesting. I want to tell our listeners by the
way that the phones are lighting up with gen Z callers,
So that's we're going to get to that in just
a minute. And also I want to let you know
a program. Note you can join us in person in
Conquered New Hampshire for a live show in partnership with
New Hampshire Public Radio on October twenty second. You can
(10:35):
get details for that at listen to Themiddle dot com Tolliver.
You know gen Z is now firmly a part of
America's political sphere, not just with the vote, but now
with actual gen Z legislators.
Speaker 10 (10:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Take twenty eight year old Florida Representative Maxwell Frost for example.
He's the youngest member of Congress and the first from
gen Z. Here he is talking about what got him
into politics in an interview with NBC in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 11 (11:04):
Gun violence is what got me involved in this work.
Ten years ago. It was the Sandy Hook shooting. Three
years after that, I'd become a survivor of gun violence
myself here in Orlando, and three months before that the
Pulse nightclub shooting would happen. The leading cause of death
for children is guns, not automobiles anymore. So our children
are literally on the front lines of this issue, and
we lose one hundred people a day. So I look
(11:25):
forward to being a strong advocate and champion to ensuring
we live in a country where we don't have to
fear going to church, going to school because of gun violence.
We deserve the freedom to live without the fear of
that violence.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Again Maxwell Frost, twenty eight years old, And in a
few minutes, we're going to talk about some of the
global issues that are facing Generation Z, from gun violence
to climate change and even political division. You're listening to
the Middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If
you're just tuning, in the Middle is a national call
in show. We're focused on elevating voices from the middle
(11:59):
geograph politically and philosophically, or maybe you just want to
meet in the middle. This hour, we're talking about the
biggest challenges facing Generation Z. Telliver, what is the number
to call in?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four six four three three five three. You can also
write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media. And we did get a Twitch follower,
so I know it exists.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
One good, Okay, great. I'm joined by gen z YouTuber
Madison Brown and Gene Tweinie, professor of psychology at San
Diego State University, let's get to a phone call because
they are lighting up. Lizzy is in Salt Lake City, Utah. Lizzy, Uh,
welcome to the middle you gen Z, And what do
you think about the challenges the generation faces?
Speaker 8 (12:40):
Hi?
Speaker 12 (12:41):
I am gen Z. I was born in two thousand
and two, so I'm like in the middle of gen
Z kind of, and I totally agree that one of
the biggest problems facing our generation is like social media
on phones and like how to navigate them because iron
being in like elementary school and having like smartboards, but
(13:04):
no one had like personal computers or iPads or phone.
I didn't get a phone tile I was in high school.
But like social media has like so rapidly like encompassed
all of life that it does seem really hard to navigate,
like what is real, what's not real?
Speaker 13 (13:22):
What like our good goals? What are bad goals?
Speaker 12 (13:25):
And so I think that's the biggest thing for me
at least.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
What do you intend to do about that? Are you
making changes in your own life if you see that
as a problem to try to get away from it.
Speaker 12 (13:38):
Yeah, it's hard because like I feel like using my
phone and like scrolling is really like helpful and like
limiting stress, but it also is like stressed adding because
like the news and then right, just like jealousy and
embarrassment and stuff, and so honestly, like I haven't been successful.
(14:01):
But the biggest thing is just like trying to do
things that don't involve my phone and like not caring
if I do on my phone with me and like
it's just like it's ironic, but it's just like leaving
my phone in another room and then like reading a
book or hanging out with my friends, and that's like
the biggest thing that helps me not.
Speaker 14 (14:22):
Like scroll for the whole day.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Lizzie, thank you so much for that call, Madison. What
do you think about that? Do you hear from a
lot of members of your generation that they are trying
actively to do what Lizzie is doing and spend less
time with the phone, if they see that as a
challenge of the generation.
Speaker 7 (14:39):
Yeah, definitely, even millennials who are maybe like ten years
older than me. I hear them talking about the same thing.
Because it's so easy to get just caught up in
your algorithm. You have to remind yourself life comes first.
There are so many other things to be doing, and
also not doing things faster just to get back to
(15:03):
your phone. I feel like that's something I've noticed in
myself where I'm like, oh, like, okay, I gotta do
the dishes, but then afterwards I can scroll on my phone,
which isn't like the worst thing, at least you're doing
the dishes. But I feel like me and other people
in my generation feel like our phone is like truly
such a like mitochondria for our world, even like standing somewhere,
(15:29):
like maybe you're waiting for the bus or the train
and or you're feeling awkward in a public setting and
you go on your phone to like kind of fill
the void. I try to tell myself, like, you can
like sit in this and you don't have to scroll
just because you feel a little awkward and don't know
what to do with your hands.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Well, Gene, this is what your your new book is about,
is what parents can do? What should parents be doing
about making sure that they're gen Z children or you know,
and some of these children are not children anymore, they're
now adults. But like what they're gen Z offspring should
be doing to spend less time on something that clearly
they believe is harmful.
Speaker 9 (16:05):
Yeah, and elphas too, so so Yeah. The book is
is ten rules and it is mostly for parents, but
I want to talk about rule too, because rule two
is something that is for everyone, not just parents talking
to their kids about and making kids sure their kids follow.
But all of us should be doing this, which is
(16:26):
no devices in the bedroom overnight. So that is one
area where we can pretty much say unequivocally, Okay, we're
going to carve out that time for sleep and relaxation
right before sleep, and devices should not.
Speaker 8 (16:39):
Be interfering with that.
Speaker 9 (16:41):
So you know, and because I know so many people
will have that phone on the bedside table or in
bed with them, and then the notifications go off. Even
if your phone is off, studies are showing you won't
sleep as much or as well. And then scrolling right
before bed is especially deadly because going to sleep is
like land a plane.
Speaker 8 (17:01):
It takes about.
Speaker 9 (17:01):
Thirty minutes to wind down, and the phone is not
the thing to be doing to wind down and wind
you up.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, let's go to Maddie, who's in Baltimore, Maryland. I'm Maddie.
Go ahead with your thoughts.
Speaker 10 (17:14):
Hi, I was born in nineteen ninety nine, so I'm
right at the beginning of my generation. And my younger brother.
He was born in twenty twelve, so he's right at
the end. And currently I'm twenty six and I'm trying
to move out of my parents' home. I have a
full time job, I do a lot of extra work
on the side, and it is completely impossible for me
(17:38):
to get a house and move out. I've been trying
to get things together for maybe about a year now,
and my goal is early next year. But I've just
noticed that there's a lot of financial stress with people
my age, you know, with student debt and financial insecurity future,
(18:02):
and I really think it's a much harder goal to
attain in comparison to you know, what my dad's vision
for me was was, you know, go to college, you know,
get a car, you know, get a house, move out.
And it's so difficult for me now, and I'm scared
(18:23):
for my brother in the future because if it's hard
for me, I can't imagine what it's gonna be like
for him.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Can you think it's getting worse.
Speaker 10 (18:32):
I do think it's getting worse. And I don't think
that he will have a stable groundwork like for him
to build off of in the future. I thought I did,
and even now, Yeah, where I live currently, I can't
work in town. I will have to find another place
(18:56):
in the future to live and to work, just to
kind of make ends meet. A lot of friends my age,
you know, they room together. But I've heard and seen
in a lot of places that rent and mortgages are
around the same price these days, and.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
The and they're and they're and they're they're very high,
both of them, and and and mortgage is very difficult
to get right now, Maddie, thank you very much for
calling in. And Madison, let's talk about that economic side
of things. I mean, do you believe that it is
the goal of people in gen Z the way it
has been for people in previous generations to own a home,
(19:33):
to own a car, or is it not not really
what they're aiming for in the same way.
Speaker 7 (19:39):
Well, I want to say no, because we've realized maybe
that's not the most realistic for most of us. And
also there's like, I don't know if people aren't necessarily
moving towards cities more in gen Z, but I know
we're all kind of like, why don't we havelockable cities?
And maybe owning a house isn't like the the answer
(20:01):
for life, Like maybe renting is okay things like that,
but yeah, I think about this a lot, just for
myself personally, Like I was always told by a house
my grandfather flipped housing, flipped houses for a living. He's
not American, he immigrated here, and so he's kind of
like this quintessential American dream, like you come here, you
(20:22):
work hard, you buy anuice, buy a nice house in Florida,
and retire. And so he thinks that's what you'll do
and you'll be successful. And I'm like, you know what,
I still believe I can buy a house one day.
But it's not like it was in the seventies. So
it's the.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Fifties for that matter. I mean, right, he used to
be able to. I mean I wasn't around in the fifties,
but I know that it was a lot easier in
those days. Tolliver, what's coming in from our gen Z
listeners online?
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Sure, I just want to start with this when Abby
and Rawley says, quote, you said, my phones are lighting
up with calls from gen Z and I have never
heard anyone say that, and I have not stopped.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I'm telling you, I'm looking at all ten lines right now.
They are lit.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Up, there's a go ahead, I'll be quick. So artificial
intelligence is making a large majority of the majors and
fields of study that my generation was pushed toward essentially obsolete.
And then finally, Matthew Minnesota says, are there any major
political differences observed between older and younger gen Z Gene.
Speaker 9 (21:23):
I have seen some folks say that, but I dug
into some data on gen Z's political beliefs pretty recently,
and I did not see that split between older and
younger gen zs that it seemed pretty consistent. The main
theme was that although more gen z Ers voted for
Trump in twenty twenty four versus twenty twenty, that you
(21:47):
do not see more identifying as conservative, because that had
been a rumor for a while. It does look like
that's the case even among young men, at least in
one data set of young adults.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
And do you think, by the way that you know,
we heard from Maxwell Frost a bit earlier on about
gun violence, does the overall state of the world, gun violence,
climate change, divisive politics affect gen Z differently or land
differently with gen Z Gene than it does with other generations.
Speaker 9 (22:15):
Well, I mean, I should clarify, I don't think that's
the primary cause of the increasing depression, given that it's
international and for climate change. If that was the cause,
you'd expect a bigger increase in depression among say, older
teens and young adults versus children and young teens. And
it's exactly the opposite. The biggest increases are old children
(22:36):
and young teens. But certainly these things are going to
hit young people because this is the world they're inheriting.
And that late twenty tens was a real turning point
for political activism among gen Z the Parkland shooting, for example,
twenty eighteen, and then the voter turnout of gen Z
(22:59):
in those twenty twenty eighteen midterms was much higher than
four years before in the previous sediment terms among young adults.
Speaker 8 (23:07):
So that does.
Speaker 9 (23:08):
Point to some political activism being inspired in in this generation.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And see let's go to Mary Anne, who's in Houston, Texas.
Mary Anne, welcome to the middle Are you gen Z
And if so, what are the challenges you face?
Speaker 14 (23:27):
Well, gen Z, And what I was considering when I'm
listening to this is I think on the mainstream level,
there's an identification that there's a loneliness problem, but people
are cautious to offer a solution to it, and so
that leaves sort of a vacuum that's filled by some
bad actors like Andrew Tate or you know, i'd say
(23:48):
Nick Quentas or some of these others. And then, also
for the sake of my own point, I'm going to
just offer a solution, which is that I think that
people would be happier if they spend just a month
cleansing themselves of anything algorithmic based and just see how
it feels.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, I mean, we're very proud on the middle that
our our calls are not has nothing to do with
an algorithm. Mary, and thank you very much for that call.
Let me try Francisco. Who's in Chicago? Francisco? Are you
gen Z?
Speaker 15 (24:22):
Yeah, yeah, I'm gen Z. I actually caught your show
as I was leaving work, so I figured i'd call in.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, tell us what you think.
Speaker 15 (24:30):
Yeah, I think there's something that you touched on originally,
and that was the opportunity and I wanted to bring
up the job market for my generation. I just got
a new job as well. I used to be OTR.
I was an OTR truck driver, which for those who
don't know, was over the road and I recently just
got a local job at a local terminal doing deliveries.
(24:54):
But I've seen it and a lot of friends of mine,
and I see it a lot of the people in
my generation. I know we talked about young men earlier,
especially with the voting base. I see a lot of
young men, including myself, just burnt out. It's very tough
to try to stay competitive. I think ten hours is
the new eight hours, and it's very, very difficult to compete.
(25:17):
And my job, specifically in my field, I'm very concerned.
I'm very concerned that with all the advancements of technology
and AI, I might not have this job. In the
next twenty years. There might be automated trucks. And this
job is a good job, you know, I get insurance, benefits,
good pay. I mean, it is a lot of hours.
(25:37):
It is very hard, but it's doable. I had a
guy this week you retired after forty years. I don't
know if I can get.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
To that point, but that's what you want to do.
Speaker 15 (25:51):
Yeah, I would like to at least get the opportunity
to I would like to at least provide take care
of I now have a family, and I think that's
my main priority. And when I see some of the
stuff that goes on, I see a lot of people
checking out, a lot of my friends checking out. I
see a lot of people just disillusioned, very apathetic.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
You know.
Speaker 15 (26:13):
It's it's very tough, very tough to stay competitive. Yeah,
and especially if you feel isn't going to exist and
maybe the next ten, fifteen, twenty years.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, I think a lot of people are feeling that
right now about you know what AI is going to do.
Francisco really appreciate the call, Thank you very much, Madison.
What do you think about that sort of the fears
about what jobs will be around in the future, but
also just Francisco feeling like ten hours is the new
eight hours. Then he's just having to work so hard
to bring in enough money to take care of his family.
Speaker 7 (26:45):
Yeah, I mean, I definitely feel for him. It seems
like the sense of burnout is affecting a lot of us,
if not all of us, to some degree. It just
doesn't feel like the work that ours are amounting to
what they used to be, and you kind of think, like, well,
(27:07):
what is this all for? Like I'm just gonna work
until I die and be left with nothing. And that's
where I think a lot of that nihilism comes from,
because it doesn't seem like there's a light at the
end of the tunnel, and it's not like you can
just give up, and like, you know, I don't know
what the alternative would be being homeless. I guess I
(27:29):
don't know, but it's it's really unfair. I wish that
had a more like optimistic perspective. And especially with the
AI stuff, I know a lot of people in so
many different fields are afraid of their jobs going away
because of AI, and I'd like to hope you can
adapt in some way. I really don't know what the
future looks like with that, but it's it's scary. It's
(27:50):
we're kind of just in this weird unknown right now.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah, I mean I think that that is is that
a big part of it, gene just sort of the
unknown and the uncertain, and that gen Z is coming
into right now.
Speaker 9 (28:05):
I think that's certainly part of it. And I do
feel I should mention you know a few statistics which
may seem somewhat contradictory. So one is absolutely housing prices
are very high and interest rates are high right now,
so that's making it really tough with housing. However, median
(28:26):
incomes for young adults are at all time highs corrected
for inflation. The Wall Street Journal about a year ago
had an article mostly focused on millennials but also on
older gen Z saying that in terms of their wealth building,
they were actually ahead of Gen X and boomers at
the same age. And nobody believes this, but don't shoot
(28:47):
the messenger. A messenger isn't even me, it's the Wall
Street Journal. So and this is a couple of years,
maybe a couple of years of the date. Maybe that's
some of it with with AI coming in and challenging things,
because don't don't forget it wasn't that long ago.
Speaker 8 (29:01):
We had a labor shortage, right.
Speaker 9 (29:03):
And then we had so many boomers who were leaving
the job market that there.
Speaker 8 (29:08):
Were a lot of opportunities for gen Z.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
They're making more money, but it's also been more difficult
for them to buy houses. And I saw that the
rate of home ownership is significantly lower with gen Zers
at a certain age than it was for previous generations. Taliver.
There are some stereotypes about gen Z. For example, they
operate a little differently in the workplace.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Yeah, and there are endless Instagram memes about that. Here's
one where an older boss is using a translate to
talk with his gen Z employee.
Speaker 11 (29:35):
Hey, but we need to discuss your quarterly performance metrics.
Speaker 8 (29:38):
What he said, bestie, he wants to tell you how
you've been.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Slaying at work.
Speaker 9 (29:42):
Oh, bet, that's actually fire. My numbers have been getting
main character energy all fox snow Printer.
Speaker 11 (29:48):
She's excited and confident. Her performance has been excellent.
Speaker 15 (29:52):
She's being honest with you.
Speaker 11 (29:53):
I need you to work harder and focus on the
synergistic optimization of your deliverables.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
He's saying.
Speaker 11 (29:58):
Bet, he wants you to lock in and make your work.
Speaker 9 (30:00):
Hit different Say less, I'm about to be so locked
in it's not even.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Funny, say less, printer.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Bet, what does bet even mean? Tolliver.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
I think it's like an affirmation, like I got you
you bet you bet?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Okay? All right, right back with more of the middle.
This is the middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. This hour, we're
talking about the biggest issues facing Generation Z. You can
call us at eight four four four middle. That's eight
four four four six four three three five three You
can also reach out at Listen to the Middle dot
com or on YouTube. I'm joined by Gene Twingie, professor
of psychology at San Diego State University, and YouTuber Madison Brown.
(30:39):
Let's go back to the phone. Sam is in Rhode Island. Sam,
Welcome to the middle.
Speaker 16 (30:43):
Go ahead, Hi, let me turn off to really quick.
All right, there we go. Hi, I'm afraid that the
biggest things that I'm concerned about are basically I'm worried
about AI, but not for the job market. I'm I'm
(31:03):
worried about radicalization in my generation with the way our
government portrays things, and I'm concerned about the economy.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Explain what you mean by radicalization of the way the
government portrays things.
Speaker 16 (31:22):
I'm really concerned about, like specifically like hate crimes towards immigrants,
trans people, the LGBTQ plus community, and just like eventually
between people who are like right wingers and left wingers.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
And you feel like as your gen z yourself, I.
Speaker 16 (31:39):
Assume yes, I was born in two thousand and.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Four and two thousand and four, and and do you
feel like this is more of an issue for your
generation than for other generations?
Speaker 16 (31:51):
Yeah, I think the way that politicians talk about talk
about people on opposing sides and like the people that
like currently targeting, like if you're like Republican, like say
like immigrants are like illegal immigrants.
Speaker 17 (32:05):
Like.
Speaker 16 (32:06):
I think there's a lot it's very like volatile, and
I think it could definitely incite people into violence.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Sam, thank you very much for that call, Gene, what
do you think about that? You know we have seen,
you know, in the protest movements for example around Gaza,
a lot of gen Z were involved in that, especially
on the college campuses and things like that. What do
you hear in what Sam is saying?
Speaker 9 (32:34):
Yeah, Well, just a huge increase in political polarization and
from you know, surveys and polls, just much higher tolerance
for political violence than there ever used to be. And
there's a number of factors in that, but social media
is one of those.
Speaker 8 (32:53):
It really gets people going.
Speaker 9 (32:55):
I mean, social psychology studies have shown that cont head
that makes people angry gets shared more on social media,
so it spreads faster.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Kathleen is calling from Surrey, New Hampshire. Kathleen, are you
gen Z and what are your thoughts on the challenges
the generation faces?
Speaker 18 (33:16):
Yes, I was born in two thousand and seven. I'm
a senior in high school right now. I think that
maybe not the biggest problem, but one of the big
ones is definitely like the accessibility and potency of marijuana
and nicotine, especially in school environments, because I like, I'm
(33:42):
sure it's different for depending on how legal it is
where you are, but it's super super normalized at least
at the public school that I go to. And I've
heard the same from other people. It's just turns over
lives and it's existed listed in somewhere or another for
(34:02):
like forever, but right now it's just so accessible and
so dangerous.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
You know. It's really interesting, Kathleen that you say that,
because twenty fourteen was when the first state legalized marijuana.
We did an entire show about this. And the potency,
as you say, is extremely high in a lot of
the edibles that are available now compared to like in
nineteen seventy. You know, if your dad or your maybe
your grandfather was smoking a joint, it was like a
(34:33):
few percent potency. Now it can be like ninety percent potency.
And as you say, a lot of young people are
going after these like edibles that look like candy.
Speaker 18 (34:44):
And the discreetness of them as well, like you could
do it anywhere.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, that's that's a really interesting point. Kathleen Madison, What
do you think about that? And you know, do you
see that as well among your peers.
Speaker 7 (35:02):
Yeah, I've been talking a lot about this recently As
a ex marijuana user. I always bring that up when
I talk about why stop smoking and my reflections on
smoking weed in high school, because I'm like, I've had
some horrific experiences with weed, and because you know, around
twenty fourteen, when things were starting to get legalized, no
(35:25):
one really wanted to talk about the dangers of weed
because people were so focused on the skull of you know,
criminalizing and all that, which I agree with, like you
shouldn't go to prison for weed. But at the same time,
if you're fifteen years old and your brain isn't developed
and you're taking like I don't know the percentage, but
like a dab that could feels like it's going to
end your life. That's not normal and that's not something
(35:47):
that should be like, oh, it's fine, and it's just weed.
Like weed potency is crazy. I mean, I remember I
went to Colorado with my dad and he used to
smoke and he took an edible and it was like, WHOA,
I don't remember it being like this. So it has
changed and it's something that we need to consider more.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, Tolliver, I feel like I've made my point by
allowing only gen Z callers on the show, So I'm
going to go for one that's not gen Z right now.
Jenny is in San Antonio, Texas. Hi, Jenny, you're not
gen Z.
Speaker 19 (36:20):
No, I'm not. I'm your mom taking her head in
the conversation. I've raised two gen Z girls, and I
am just, first of all, let me say I'm so
freaking proud of you guys. I mean, y'all have survived
so much. And I know that Jennax tends to take
(36:41):
credit for the neglect and abuse of the boomers, and well, yeah,
we do. But nonetheless, I just wanted to ask to
pose the question, like just overall, I know this is
kind of a high level, you know, question, but like,
(37:03):
I'm just so curious if you guys feel neglected or coddled,
because that has been an ongoing debate among gen X's parents.
You know, when it comes to all of these issues,
cell phones, social media, you know, socialization, and you know, yes,
(37:25):
we definitely see as gen X parents, we see the
stark difference between how we need to socialize as gen
xers and how you guys seem to I don't want
to say lack, but I mean it's very different the
way you guys socialize, and it's almost alien to us.
But we're definitely more concerned than our boomer parents ever
(37:50):
were about us. And and so I just you know,
I know how my girls feel. My two gen z
are feel that I kind of raised them a little
different than most gen xers did. But anyway, I I well, let's.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Ask let's ask Madison Brown, who's on here. Do you
do you feel? Do you feel coddled or neglected by
previous generations?
Speaker 7 (38:17):
Madison, I personally don't feel coddled. I guess it kind
of depends on your parents and like your family, how
they raised you. I think if there's any coddling going on,
it's with each other. But I know I don't feel
like I was necessarily coddled by my parents or older people.
(38:43):
I think, if anything, I did a lot of like
convincing or getting people to try to understand where I'm
coming from. Because there's a general generational difference, like with
mental health or something like that.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Interesting is calling from Boston, Massachusetts, another gen Z caller,
and go ahead, Hello.
Speaker 17 (39:07):
Good evening. I'm calling in from Boston, mass And yes,
I was born in nineteen ninety nine and so I
identify as gen Z.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
And what do you think are the big challenges that
your generation faces?
Speaker 17 (39:23):
Oh, I was calling into poses the question around how
the technologies that gen Z grew up around has affected
our social and civil development, particularly because these technologies like
(39:45):
the Internet and smartphones are very immersive in nature and
they can sort of occupy a large portion of one's
worldview depending on how much they include these technologies in
our lives, and I think that that has like a
(40:07):
profound effect on basically how people of our generation view
their social and civil lives.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Great, great question and something we've been touching on. But Gene,
what about that specific question about how it's affected their development?
Speaker 9 (40:29):
Yeah, and there's still a lot of unknowns out there,
but we do know that teens and young adults are
spending a lot less time with each other in person.
So through middle school and high school, they're just a
lot less likely to just hang out with their friends
or go to the mall or drive around in the car,
or go to a party compared.
Speaker 8 (40:51):
To previous generations.
Speaker 9 (40:52):
So that has some you know, obvious implications for social
development and social skills. A lot of the stuff that
Madison was talking about about, you know, the idea.
Speaker 8 (41:01):
Of oh, I'm glad that we canceled plans.
Speaker 9 (41:05):
I think that that does have some roots in the pandemic,
but it goes back even further than that because the
social interaction piece that's been declining since the early twenty tens.
And then in terms of the civic development, you know,
we've touched on some of those issues around political polarization
and when you get your news from social media instead
(41:27):
of a centralized source, well, there's advantages to that because
then it's more democratic, so to speak, more people have
a voice. On the other hand, it's also more atomized
and you can get you can expose yourself to only
the news that you want to see and only the
viewpoints that you want to see, and that seems to
have increased the divide in our country.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Ryan is calling in from Minneapolis. Hi, Ryan, go ahead
with your thoughts, are you gen z.
Speaker 20 (41:57):
Yes I was born in two thousand and one. And
I think think the greatest challenge is a general sense
of apathy that kind of seems to be permeating our
generation to do a lot of the political and social
headwinds that were facing.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
The political and social headwinds being the kinds of things
we heard about a little bit earlier. Are there specific
issues that you're thinking about there?
Speaker 20 (42:21):
Yeah, generally like global climate change and kind of like
rising political tensions and authoritarians.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Now you say apathy. You were born in two thousand
and one, so you've had an election that you were
able to vote in at least one. Are you voting,
Do you feel apathy that you don't want to vote,
or do you want to be involved in politics?
Speaker 20 (42:43):
I'm personally voting, and a lot of people in my
social circles are as well. But I also noticed that
within people that are voting, they don't seem to be
as deeply involved in the politics of what they're voting for.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Interesting, Ryan, thank you and Madison on the issue of
whether you know gen z is voting in big numbers,
do you expect that kind of apathy that we just
heard about there in the coming election, the midterms next
year or the voting age gen z or is going
to get out in force.
Speaker 7 (43:18):
I really hope they get out in force because the
last election and my sort of political social bubble that
apathy was really present. Apathy was present, and also this
idea that if you're voting for either side, you're voting
for genocide. And I understand where people were coming from,
but I don't think that ended well for us, because
(43:40):
I don't think anyone wanted Trump to win in my
social political circle, anyone who's against genocide so much to
the point that they won't even vote for Kamala.
Speaker 8 (43:49):
They don't want Trump.
Speaker 7 (43:50):
But you know, this is a very layered conversation, but
I think a part of that is apathy of like
it doesn't matter anyway.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
I don't feel like they can have an effect. Tolliver,
what else is coming in online?
Speaker 3 (44:06):
All right, we've got Rebecca. She says, I'm a boomer here.
Young people I talk to and hear about feel quite
hopeless for many reasons, echoing Madison. Our current government, in
the form of Donald Trump, seem not to care about
the future. And it's pretty evident. So you know what,
I want to get back to a call or whatever.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
But yeah, well, but because because we have so many
that are still We've got some young people still on
the lines. And just a few minutes left, let's go
to Joe, who's in San Antonio, Texas. Joe, are you
gen Z and what are your thoughts?
Speaker 7 (44:41):
So?
Speaker 13 (44:41):
Yes, I am gen Z. I was born in two
thousand and seven, and very briefly, I just wanted to
touch on I feel like we know social media is
an issue, but we're not focused on why it's an issue.
I think that a lot of people who feel isolated,
people in margin communities, trans people, women, a lot of
(45:03):
people go online to seek that community. But once certain algorithms,
certain you know, websites, everything tracks that you're part of
the community, they purposefully this is something that was actually
looked at, They will purposely send you more and more
hate because that hate will get engagement from those groups
(45:27):
and cause you to stay online longer. And that type
of hate that you see every single day if you
log on, if you check the news, if you do anything,
you see that catered to you, and it makes you think,
I don't really want to talk to people in real
life because what if they are all like that? What
if I'm talking to somebody and they are going to
(45:48):
look at me and say you don't belong here.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Joe, let me just ask you one quick follow up question,
which is do you feel like you had adequate training
in your life at any point to deal with social
media and these algorithms that are targeting you and trying
to get you to stay on longer and stuff like that.
Speaker 13 (46:06):
I think that I had great training for the Internet
before this point. My parents were very well thought out,
very good, well educated, and they made sure that I
did not have broader Internet access until I was much older.
Speaker 15 (46:23):
However, I was trained.
Speaker 13 (46:25):
For an Internet that does not have the precision that.
Speaker 15 (46:29):
It has now.
Speaker 13 (46:30):
So now I'm completely unable to handle just the pure
amount of hate no matter what you do, no matter
what sites you're on. I don't have Snapchat, I don't
have social media. I'm only on YouTube and Safari, the
web browser, and yet still I would get targeted like hate,
and it's very concerning.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Joe. Thank you so much for calling in and and
also for making it so that we had an entire
show of callers that were nothing but gen Z except
one parent of gen Z kids, Madison. I'm going to
give you the final word here. What are you optimistic
about as a gen Z person right now.
Speaker 7 (47:15):
Well, we talk a lot with each other online. We're
very aware of the good and.
Speaker 8 (47:23):
The bad at least.
Speaker 7 (47:24):
Again, it's hard to say. I can't speak for all
gen Z algorithms really kind of put you into this
echo chamber. I try to break out of it. But
we're a very open generation, so I think as we
age and mature, we can also mature in the way
that we communicate and kind of course correct. So I
(47:49):
have hope for our generation to find solutions and to
keep an open mind. That's kind of gen Z's whole thing,
I think is being open minded, sometimes to a fault
where it kind of circles back around to being closed minded.
But I feel like, yeah, we're very talkative, communicative, so
(48:10):
I think.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
That's a good a good A good note to end
on Madison Brown, YouTuber, thank you so much. And Gene Tweingie,
professor of psychology at San Diego State University, author of
the new book Ten Rules for Raising Kids in a
High Tech World and also the book Generations. Thanks to
both of you. Thank you for having me and Telliver
we really ate that. And left note crumbs. Don't forget
to subscribe to our podcast. We've got extra episodes of
(48:33):
our One Thing Trump Did podcast every week, only available
on The Middle podcast Feed. Subscribe to our YouTube channel.
Next week, we'll be back here getting into the big
national conversation about redistricting. We want to know whether you
feel represented by the political process and what fair representation
looks like to you.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Our number is eight four four four Middle. That's eight
four four four six four three three five three, or
you can reach out at Listen to the Middle dot com.
You can also sign up for our free weekly newsletter
and send us your ideas for future show topics.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
The Middle is brought to you by a Long the
Media distributed by Illinois Public Media in Urbana, Illinois. Produced
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I'm Jeremy Hobson. I will talk to you next week.
Support for the Middle comes from the stations that air
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at listen toothemiddle dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson along with our
house DJ Tolliver and Tolliver. As you know, on almost
every show that we do, we get calls from people
who are part of Generation Z, which means they were
born between nineteen ninety seven and twenty twelve.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Yeah, and we get some Jenna alphas too.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Let's not forget the next one. Those are the younger ones,
right him Man Madison, Perry, Harry Hip. So this hour,
I am counting on our gen Z listeners to flood
the phone lines at eight four four four six four
through three five three because we want to talk about
the challenges that you are facing. Gen Z was, of
course the first generation to grow up online, with social
media taking up hours of their days. The lives of
(00:51):
people in gen Z were also uniquely impacted by the
COVID pandemic, something that interrupted schooling and broke down how
many people talk and communicate. Gen Z also faces a
very tough economics situation. Aside from increasing rental prices and
interest rates, that make owning a home very difficult for many.
Older workers are staying in their jobs longer, which means
(01:13):
the job market is also a challenge. So our question
this hour what are the biggest challenges for Generation Z
and what can we do about them? The number is
eight four four four middle. That's eight four four four
six four three three five three. We'll get to your
calls in just a moment. But first, last week on
the show, we asked for your thoughts on the aggressive
immigration enforcement tactics being used by the Trump administration. Here
(01:34):
are some of the comments we got in our voicemail.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
My name is Alclsnak. I'm calling from Conway, New Hampshire.
I think the ice raids are good. We certainly have
an immigration crisis in this country and they needed to
do something about it. I think it's the wrong way
doing it.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
Hey, first name one. I am American born, but of
Dominican parents. If you had spoken to any Hispanic person,
we could have told you this was coming. Yes, what
Trump is doing is harsh, but it wouldn't have gotten
to this point if the previous administration would have taken
immigration seriously.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
I'm Garrett going in from Kansas. Here there's somebody who
self identifies as a middle right. Politically, I think the
current immigration policy it's based in a good principle, which
is sponsoring the legal immigrations planation, and it's been taken
away out of proportion. I think there's a lot of
unfortunate tactics being employed, and while some of it's certainly
sensationalized by the media, I also think that striking fear
(02:30):
into the hearts of illegal immigrants instead of changing the
way immigration is done, I think that's the wrong way
to go about it.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Well, thanks to everyone who called in. You can hear
that entire episode. Wherever you listen to podcasts is subscribe
to the Middle. So now to our question this hour,
what are the biggest challenges facing gen Z and what
can be done about them? Tolliver, how can people reach us?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
You can call us at eight four four four Middle
that's eight four four four sixty four three three five three,
or you can write to us at Listen to the
Middle dot com. But gen Z, if you rather comment
are YouTube do we still have twitch, Jeremy.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
We're on twitch, yep and Instagram, yep, all of everywhere.
You can comment that all lines. You better check especially
hard today because they may not want to use the phones,
although they sometimes do. On this show. Joining me this
hour Madison Brown, a Gen Z YouTuber who discusses many
of the challenges facing her generation on her channel, Madison.
Welcome to the middle.
Speaker 7 (03:21):
Hi, thank you for having.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Me, Thanks for being here. And Gene Twinkie is with
us as well, professor of psychology at San Diego State
University and author of the new book Ten Rules for
Raising Kids in a High Tech World and the old
book Generations. Gene, great to have you on.
Speaker 8 (03:35):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Well, before we get to the phones, Gene, you've studied
generations for a very long time. What is different about
Generation Z than the others?
Speaker 8 (03:45):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (03:45):
A lot of things. And I always want to make
clear right from the jump that when I'm talking about
generational differences, I'm talking about empirical data, and when it's
survey data, it is from young people themselves. This is
not older people wagging their fingers in saying, oh, I
don't know about these kids today. This is what young
people are saying themselves. Or we've got government data on
(04:06):
incomes things like that. So the biggest change from my
perspective and the survey data is in that switch from
millennials to gen Z is the switch from optimism to pessimism,
from mental health indicators being either stable or improving to
(04:29):
getting markedly worse across pretty much every indicator.
Speaker 8 (04:32):
So it's just one example.
Speaker 9 (04:35):
Teen and young adult depression doubled between twenty eleven and
twenty nineteen, so even before the pandemic.
Speaker 8 (04:42):
And these are really.
Speaker 9 (04:44):
Large changes that happen in a very short period of time.
Speaker 8 (04:46):
In all my decades of doing.
Speaker 9 (04:48):
Research on generational differences, I've never seen anything like it.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
And do you think that that's because of social media?
Speaker 9 (04:55):
That was what I finally figured out. So when I
first started to see these change, which is I really
had absolutely no idea what could be causing them. They
were misaligned with economic cycles. The Great Recession was finally
over and things are starting to improve around twenty eleven
or twenty twelve, when teen depression was going up. It's
tough to think of an event that happened at that
(05:17):
time that reverberated across a decade, especially internationally, because we
eventually figured out that these trends were appearing internationally as well, Australia,
in the UK, where some of the US based explanations
didn't really fit. But one thing that did fit that
had a huge impact on the way that young people
spend their time was the rise of the smartphone and
(05:40):
the social media. The end of twenty twelve was the
first time the majority of Americans owned a smartphone.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Interesting, madisone, What do you think about all of that
as a member of Generation Z. What are the unique
challenges for your generation?
Speaker 6 (05:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (05:55):
I mean, as Deane was talking, I was thinking, like, yeah,
like it really is that. I don't know what I
can say that dphone. It's that phone, Like it's so
all encompassing with all the issues that we face, especially socially.
There are financial aspects that Gen Z is facing that
I don't think has much to do with social media.
(06:15):
But when it comes to like the loneliness and our
kind of an ability to socialize like other past generations,
it does come down to the phone. Even micro things
that I talk about, like fashion, micro trends and how
people adopt personal style, how people shop. It all comes
(06:36):
back to social media and the way that it's completely
changed the way that we interact with each other or
don't interact with each other, and It's a tough one
because obviously my job is social media. I've made a
living off of it. It's completely changed my life. So
it's not that I think, you know, social media is
bad and we should.
Speaker 8 (06:56):
Never use it.
Speaker 7 (06:57):
But unfortunately, something that I think was meant to be
a tool at first has now become our whole universe,
and I think my generation is trying to figure out
how can we have a balanced life with it and
also like you know, live our lives at the same time.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
You know, my generation, I was about eighteen years old
when nine to eleven happened. That was a real, you know,
really impactful moment for the country and for my generation.
What about COVID What kind of an effect do you
think COVID had on your generation, Madison differently than other generations.
Speaker 7 (07:37):
Yeah, I mean the first thing that comes to my
mind is club culture, nightlife, things like that. I also
think social media has its own influence on how we
deal with that. But we've gotten so used to staying
at home. And I don't know if you've heard this
or I noticed this, but a lot of people in
(07:58):
my generational when a lot lot of people in my
generation will make this joke like My love language is
getting a text that's canceling plans, and people are now
excited when someone cancels plans really, and I yeah, it's
really weird, and it's something that's always kind of bothered
(08:18):
me as someone who likes to see their friends. I'm like,
is that really how you feel like? I want to
hang out with you? Not that anyone has said that
to me personally, but that seems to be like this
common mentality. And I think the pandemic has only made
that worse because I don't remember if I saw jokes
like that before the pandemic, but definitely afterwards, because everyone's
(08:42):
about protecting their peace and staying at home, and you know,
the discomfort that you have to go through when going out,
like waiting in line or like getting the bartender to come.
Speaker 8 (08:53):
Over to you.
Speaker 7 (08:54):
All that stuff doesn't have to happen if you stay home.
And of course, yeah, no one wants to wait in
line and stuff, but that's what makes the experience and
any sort of discomfort. I think my generation has become
really intolerant too, and I think the pandemic contributed a
lot to that.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I'll just say, as a virgo, I hate it when
people cancel plans Gene. As we have this conversation, a
lot of our listeners are not gen Z, even though
Tolliver sometimes says that he is, He's in fact a
millennial like me. Why do the challenges facing gen Z
matter to other generations?
Speaker 9 (09:26):
Gene, Oh, for so many, many many reasons. So first,
you know, we're talking about smartphones and social media. They
have definitely had the biggest impact on gen Z, including
and how much time they spend with friends and family
face to face. But that has had an effect on everyone.
(09:47):
Social media kind of taking over has had an impact
on all generations. Plus I give a lot of talks
on generations in the workplace. Well, we all have to
understand each other. We all have to get along. And
when you have the pronounced generational breaks like the one
that you see between millennials and gen Z in particular,
there could be a lot of frustration and misunderstandings if
(10:09):
people don't understand those differences and can roll with them.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Very interesting. I want to tell our listeners by the
way that the phones are lighting up with gen Z callers,
So that's we're going to get to that in just
a minute. And also I want to let you know
a program. Note you can join us in person in
Conquered New Hampshire for a live show in partnership with
New Hampshire Public Radio on October twenty second. You can
(10:35):
get details for that at listen to Themiddle dot com Tolliver.
You know gen Z is now firmly a part of
America's political sphere, not just with the vote, but now
with actual gen Z legislators.
Speaker 10 (10:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Take twenty eight year old Florida Representative Maxwell Frost for example.
He's the youngest member of Congress and the first from
gen Z. Here he is talking about what got him
into politics in an interview with NBC in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 11 (11:04):
Gun violence is what got me involved in this work.
Ten years ago. It was the Sandy Hook shooting. Three
years after that, I'd become a survivor of gun violence
myself here in Orlando, and three months before that the
Pulse nightclub shooting would happen. The leading cause of death
for children is guns, not automobiles anymore. So our children
are literally on the front lines of this issue, and
we lose one hundred people a day. So I look
(11:25):
forward to being a strong advocate and champion to ensuring
we live in a country where we don't have to
fear going to church, going to school because of gun violence.
We deserve the freedom to live without the fear of
that violence.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Again Maxwell Frost, twenty eight years old, And in a
few minutes, we're going to talk about some of the
global issues that are facing Generation Z, from gun violence
to climate change and even political division. You're listening to
the Middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If
you're just tuning, in the Middle is a national call
in show. We're focused on elevating voices from the middle
(11:59):
geograph politically and philosophically, or maybe you just want to
meet in the middle. This hour, we're talking about the
biggest challenges facing Generation Z. Telliver, what is the number
to call in?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four six four three three five three. You can also
write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media. And we did get a Twitch follower,
so I know it exists.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
One good, Okay, great. I'm joined by gen z YouTuber
Madison Brown and Gene Tweinie, professor of psychology at San
Diego State University, let's get to a phone call because
they are lighting up. Lizzy is in Salt Lake City, Utah. Lizzy, Uh,
welcome to the middle you gen Z, And what do
you think about the challenges the generation faces?
Speaker 8 (12:40):
Hi?
Speaker 12 (12:41):
I am gen Z. I was born in two thousand
and two, so I'm like in the middle of gen
Z kind of, and I totally agree that one of
the biggest problems facing our generation is like social media
on phones and like how to navigate them because iron
being in like elementary school and having like smartboards, but
(13:04):
no one had like personal computers or iPads or phone.
I didn't get a phone tile I was in high school.
But like social media has like so rapidly like encompassed
all of life that it does seem really hard to navigate,
like what is real, what's not real?
Speaker 13 (13:22):
What like our good goals? What are bad goals?
Speaker 12 (13:25):
And so I think that's the biggest thing for me
at least.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
What do you intend to do about that? Are you
making changes in your own life if you see that
as a problem to try to get away from it.
Speaker 12 (13:38):
Yeah, it's hard because like I feel like using my
phone and like scrolling is really like helpful and like
limiting stress, but it also is like stressed adding because
like the news and then right, just like jealousy and
embarrassment and stuff, and so honestly, like I haven't been successful.
(14:01):
But the biggest thing is just like trying to do
things that don't involve my phone and like not caring
if I do on my phone with me and like
it's just like it's ironic, but it's just like leaving
my phone in another room and then like reading a
book or hanging out with my friends, and that's like
the biggest thing that helps me not.
Speaker 14 (14:22):
Like scroll for the whole day.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Lizzie, thank you so much for that call, Madison. What
do you think about that? Do you hear from a
lot of members of your generation that they are trying
actively to do what Lizzie is doing and spend less
time with the phone, if they see that as a
challenge of the generation.
Speaker 7 (14:39):
Yeah, definitely, even millennials who are maybe like ten years
older than me. I hear them talking about the same thing.
Because it's so easy to get just caught up in
your algorithm. You have to remind yourself life comes first.
There are so many other things to be doing, and
also not doing things faster just to get back to
(15:03):
your phone. I feel like that's something I've noticed in
myself where I'm like, oh, like, okay, I gotta do
the dishes, but then afterwards I can scroll on my phone,
which isn't like the worst thing, at least you're doing
the dishes. But I feel like me and other people
in my generation feel like our phone is like truly
such a like mitochondria for our world, even like standing somewhere,
(15:29):
like maybe you're waiting for the bus or the train
and or you're feeling awkward in a public setting and
you go on your phone to like kind of fill
the void. I try to tell myself, like, you can
like sit in this and you don't have to scroll
just because you feel a little awkward and don't know
what to do with your hands.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Well, Gene, this is what your your new book is about,
is what parents can do? What should parents be doing
about making sure that they're gen Z children or you know,
and some of these children are not children anymore, they're
now adults. But like what they're gen Z offspring should
be doing to spend less time on something that clearly
they believe is harmful.
Speaker 9 (16:05):
Yeah, and elphas too, so so Yeah. The book is
is ten rules and it is mostly for parents, but
I want to talk about rule too, because rule two
is something that is for everyone, not just parents talking
to their kids about and making kids sure their kids follow.
But all of us should be doing this, which is
(16:26):
no devices in the bedroom overnight. So that is one
area where we can pretty much say unequivocally, Okay, we're
going to carve out that time for sleep and relaxation
right before sleep, and devices should not.
Speaker 8 (16:39):
Be interfering with that.
Speaker 9 (16:41):
So you know, and because I know so many people
will have that phone on the bedside table or in
bed with them, and then the notifications go off. Even
if your phone is off, studies are showing you won't
sleep as much or as well. And then scrolling right
before bed is especially deadly because going to sleep is
like land a plane.
Speaker 8 (17:01):
It takes about.
Speaker 9 (17:01):
Thirty minutes to wind down, and the phone is not
the thing to be doing to wind down and wind
you up.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, let's go to Maddie, who's in Baltimore, Maryland. I'm Maddie.
Go ahead with your thoughts.
Speaker 10 (17:14):
Hi, I was born in nineteen ninety nine, so I'm
right at the beginning of my generation. And my younger brother.
He was born in twenty twelve, so he's right at
the end. And currently I'm twenty six and I'm trying
to move out of my parents' home. I have a
full time job, I do a lot of extra work
on the side, and it is completely impossible for me
(17:38):
to get a house and move out. I've been trying
to get things together for maybe about a year now,
and my goal is early next year. But I've just
noticed that there's a lot of financial stress with people
my age, you know, with student debt and financial insecurity future,
(18:02):
and I really think it's a much harder goal to
attain in comparison to you know, what my dad's vision
for me was was, you know, go to college, you know,
get a car, you know, get a house, move out.
And it's so difficult for me now, and I'm scared
(18:23):
for my brother in the future because if it's hard
for me, I can't imagine what it's gonna be like
for him.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Can you think it's getting worse.
Speaker 10 (18:32):
I do think it's getting worse. And I don't think
that he will have a stable groundwork like for him
to build off of in the future. I thought I did,
and even now, Yeah, where I live currently, I can't
work in town. I will have to find another place
(18:56):
in the future to live and to work, just to
kind of make ends meet. A lot of friends my age,
you know, they room together. But I've heard and seen
in a lot of places that rent and mortgages are
around the same price these days, and.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
The and they're and they're and they're they're very high,
both of them, and and and mortgage is very difficult
to get right now, Maddie, thank you very much for
calling in. And Madison, let's talk about that economic side
of things. I mean, do you believe that it is
the goal of people in gen Z the way it
has been for people in previous generations to own a home,
(19:33):
to own a car, or is it not not really
what they're aiming for in the same way.
Speaker 7 (19:39):
Well, I want to say no, because we've realized maybe
that's not the most realistic for most of us. And
also there's like, I don't know if people aren't necessarily
moving towards cities more in gen Z, but I know
we're all kind of like, why don't we havelockable cities?
And maybe owning a house isn't like the the answer
(20:01):
for life, Like maybe renting is okay things like that,
but yeah, I think about this a lot, just for
myself personally, Like I was always told by a house
my grandfather flipped housing, flipped houses for a living. He's
not American, he immigrated here, and so he's kind of
like this quintessential American dream, like you come here, you
(20:22):
work hard, you buy anuice, buy a nice house in Florida,
and retire. And so he thinks that's what you'll do
and you'll be successful. And I'm like, you know what,
I still believe I can buy a house one day.
But it's not like it was in the seventies. So
it's the.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Fifties for that matter. I mean, right, he used to
be able to. I mean I wasn't around in the fifties,
but I know that it was a lot easier in
those days. Tolliver, what's coming in from our gen Z
listeners online?
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Sure, I just want to start with this when Abby
and Rawley says, quote, you said, my phones are lighting
up with calls from gen Z and I have never
heard anyone say that, and I have not stopped.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I'm telling you, I'm looking at all ten lines right now.
They are lit.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Up, there's a go ahead, I'll be quick. So artificial
intelligence is making a large majority of the majors and
fields of study that my generation was pushed toward essentially obsolete.
And then finally, Matthew Minnesota says, are there any major
political differences observed between older and younger gen Z Gene.
Speaker 9 (21:23):
I have seen some folks say that, but I dug
into some data on gen Z's political beliefs pretty recently,
and I did not see that split between older and
younger gen zs that it seemed pretty consistent. The main
theme was that although more gen z Ers voted for
Trump in twenty twenty four versus twenty twenty, that you
(21:47):
do not see more identifying as conservative, because that had
been a rumor for a while. It does look like
that's the case even among young men, at least in
one data set of young adults.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
And do you think, by the way that you know,
we heard from Maxwell Frost a bit earlier on about
gun violence, does the overall state of the world, gun violence,
climate change, divisive politics affect gen Z differently or land
differently with gen Z Gene than it does with other generations.
Speaker 9 (22:15):
Well, I mean, I should clarify, I don't think that's
the primary cause of the increasing depression, given that it's
international and for climate change. If that was the cause,
you'd expect a bigger increase in depression among say, older
teens and young adults versus children and young teens. And
it's exactly the opposite. The biggest increases are old children
(22:36):
and young teens. But certainly these things are going to
hit young people because this is the world they're inheriting.
And that late twenty tens was a real turning point
for political activism among gen Z the Parkland shooting, for example,
twenty eighteen, and then the voter turnout of gen Z
(22:59):
in those twenty twenty eighteen midterms was much higher than
four years before in the previous sediment terms among young adults.
Speaker 8 (23:07):
So that does.
Speaker 9 (23:08):
Point to some political activism being inspired in in this generation.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And see let's go to Mary Anne, who's in Houston, Texas.
Mary Anne, welcome to the middle Are you gen Z
And if so, what are the challenges you face?
Speaker 14 (23:27):
Well, gen Z, And what I was considering when I'm
listening to this is I think on the mainstream level,
there's an identification that there's a loneliness problem, but people
are cautious to offer a solution to it, and so
that leaves sort of a vacuum that's filled by some
bad actors like Andrew Tate or you know, i'd say
(23:48):
Nick Quentas or some of these others. And then, also
for the sake of my own point, I'm going to
just offer a solution, which is that I think that
people would be happier if they spend just a month
cleansing themselves of anything algorithmic based and just see how
it feels.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, I mean, we're very proud on the middle that
our our calls are not has nothing to do with
an algorithm. Mary, and thank you very much for that call.
Let me try Francisco. Who's in Chicago? Francisco? Are you
gen Z?
Speaker 15 (24:22):
Yeah, yeah, I'm gen Z. I actually caught your show
as I was leaving work, so I figured i'd call in.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, tell us what you think.
Speaker 15 (24:30):
Yeah, I think there's something that you touched on originally,
and that was the opportunity and I wanted to bring
up the job market for my generation. I just got
a new job as well. I used to be OTR.
I was an OTR truck driver, which for those who
don't know, was over the road and I recently just
got a local job at a local terminal doing deliveries.
(24:54):
But I've seen it and a lot of friends of mine,
and I see it a lot of the people in
my generation. I know we talked about young men earlier,
especially with the voting base. I see a lot of
young men, including myself, just burnt out. It's very tough
to try to stay competitive. I think ten hours is
the new eight hours, and it's very, very difficult to compete.
(25:17):
And my job, specifically in my field, I'm very concerned.
I'm very concerned that with all the advancements of technology
and AI, I might not have this job. In the
next twenty years. There might be automated trucks. And this
job is a good job, you know, I get insurance, benefits,
good pay. I mean, it is a lot of hours.
(25:37):
It is very hard, but it's doable. I had a
guy this week you retired after forty years. I don't
know if I can get.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
To that point, but that's what you want to do.
Speaker 15 (25:51):
Yeah, I would like to at least get the opportunity
to I would like to at least provide take care
of I now have a family, and I think that's
my main priority. And when I see some of the
stuff that goes on, I see a lot of people
checking out, a lot of my friends checking out. I
see a lot of people just disillusioned, very apathetic.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
You know.
Speaker 15 (26:13):
It's it's very tough, very tough to stay competitive. Yeah,
and especially if you feel isn't going to exist and
maybe the next ten, fifteen, twenty years.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, I think a lot of people are feeling that
right now about you know what AI is going to do.
Francisco really appreciate the call, Thank you very much, Madison.
What do you think about that sort of the fears
about what jobs will be around in the future, but
also just Francisco feeling like ten hours is the new
eight hours. Then he's just having to work so hard
to bring in enough money to take care of his family.
Speaker 7 (26:45):
Yeah, I mean, I definitely feel for him. It seems
like the sense of burnout is affecting a lot of us,
if not all of us, to some degree. It just
doesn't feel like the work that ours are amounting to
what they used to be, and you kind of think, like, well,
(27:07):
what is this all for? Like I'm just gonna work
until I die and be left with nothing. And that's
where I think a lot of that nihilism comes from,
because it doesn't seem like there's a light at the
end of the tunnel, and it's not like you can
just give up, and like, you know, I don't know
what the alternative would be being homeless. I guess I
(27:29):
don't know, but it's it's really unfair. I wish that
had a more like optimistic perspective. And especially with the
AI stuff, I know a lot of people in so
many different fields are afraid of their jobs going away
because of AI, and I'd like to hope you can
adapt in some way. I really don't know what the
future looks like with that, but it's it's scary. It's
(27:50):
we're kind of just in this weird unknown right now.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah, I mean I think that that is is that
a big part of it, gene just sort of the
unknown and the uncertain, and that gen Z is coming
into right now.
Speaker 9 (28:05):
I think that's certainly part of it. And I do
feel I should mention you know a few statistics which
may seem somewhat contradictory. So one is absolutely housing prices
are very high and interest rates are high right now,
so that's making it really tough with housing. However, median
(28:26):
incomes for young adults are at all time highs corrected
for inflation. The Wall Street Journal about a year ago
had an article mostly focused on millennials but also on
older gen Z saying that in terms of their wealth building,
they were actually ahead of Gen X and boomers at
the same age. And nobody believes this, but don't shoot
(28:47):
the messenger. A messenger isn't even me, it's the Wall
Street Journal. So and this is a couple of years,
maybe a couple of years of the date. Maybe that's
some of it with with AI coming in and challenging things,
because don't don't forget it wasn't that long ago.
Speaker 8 (29:01):
We had a labor shortage, right.
Speaker 9 (29:03):
And then we had so many boomers who were leaving
the job market that there.
Speaker 8 (29:08):
Were a lot of opportunities for gen Z.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
They're making more money, but it's also been more difficult
for them to buy houses. And I saw that the
rate of home ownership is significantly lower with gen Zers
at a certain age than it was for previous generations. Taliver.
There are some stereotypes about gen Z. For example, they
operate a little differently in the workplace.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Yeah, and there are endless Instagram memes about that. Here's
one where an older boss is using a translate to
talk with his gen Z employee.
Speaker 11 (29:35):
Hey, but we need to discuss your quarterly performance metrics.
Speaker 8 (29:38):
What he said, bestie, he wants to tell you how
you've been.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Slaying at work.
Speaker 9 (29:42):
Oh, bet, that's actually fire. My numbers have been getting
main character energy all fox snow Printer.
Speaker 11 (29:48):
She's excited and confident. Her performance has been excellent.
Speaker 15 (29:52):
She's being honest with you.
Speaker 11 (29:53):
I need you to work harder and focus on the
synergistic optimization of your deliverables.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
He's saying.
Speaker 11 (29:58):
Bet, he wants you to lock in and make your work.
Speaker 9 (30:00):
Hit different Say less, I'm about to be so locked
in it's not even.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Funny, say less, printer.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Bet, what does bet even mean? Tolliver.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
I think it's like an affirmation, like I got you
you bet you bet?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Okay? All right, right back with more of the middle.
This is the middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. This hour, we're
talking about the biggest issues facing Generation Z. You can
call us at eight four four four middle. That's eight
four four four six four three three five three You
can also reach out at Listen to the Middle dot
com or on YouTube. I'm joined by Gene Twingie, professor
of psychology at San Diego State University, and YouTuber Madison Brown.
(30:39):
Let's go back to the phone. Sam is in Rhode Island. Sam,
Welcome to the middle.
Speaker 16 (30:43):
Go ahead, Hi, let me turn off to really quick.
All right, there we go. Hi, I'm afraid that the
biggest things that I'm concerned about are basically I'm worried
about AI, but not for the job market. I'm I'm
(31:03):
worried about radicalization in my generation with the way our
government portrays things, and I'm concerned about the economy.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Explain what you mean by radicalization of the way the
government portrays things.
Speaker 16 (31:22):
I'm really concerned about, like specifically like hate crimes towards immigrants,
trans people, the LGBTQ plus community, and just like eventually
between people who are like right wingers and left wingers.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
And you feel like as your gen z yourself, I.
Speaker 16 (31:39):
Assume yes, I was born in two thousand and.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Four and two thousand and four, and and do you
feel like this is more of an issue for your
generation than for other generations?
Speaker 16 (31:51):
Yeah, I think the way that politicians talk about talk
about people on opposing sides and like the people that
like currently targeting, like if you're like Republican, like say
like immigrants are like illegal immigrants.
Speaker 17 (32:05):
Like.
Speaker 16 (32:06):
I think there's a lot it's very like volatile, and
I think it could definitely incite people into violence.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Sam, thank you very much for that call, Gene, what
do you think about that? You know we have seen,
you know, in the protest movements for example around Gaza,
a lot of gen Z were involved in that, especially
on the college campuses and things like that. What do
you hear in what Sam is saying?
Speaker 9 (32:34):
Yeah, Well, just a huge increase in political polarization and
from you know, surveys and polls, just much higher tolerance
for political violence than there ever used to be. And
there's a number of factors in that, but social media
is one of those.
Speaker 8 (32:53):
It really gets people going.
Speaker 9 (32:55):
I mean, social psychology studies have shown that cont head
that makes people angry gets shared more on social media,
so it spreads faster.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Kathleen is calling from Surrey, New Hampshire. Kathleen, are you
gen Z and what are your thoughts on the challenges
the generation faces?
Speaker 18 (33:16):
Yes, I was born in two thousand and seven. I'm
a senior in high school right now. I think that
maybe not the biggest problem, but one of the big
ones is definitely like the accessibility and potency of marijuana
and nicotine, especially in school environments, because I like, I'm
(33:42):
sure it's different for depending on how legal it is
where you are, but it's super super normalized at least
at the public school that I go to. And I've
heard the same from other people. It's just turns over
lives and it's existed listed in somewhere or another for
(34:02):
like forever, but right now it's just so accessible and
so dangerous.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
You know. It's really interesting, Kathleen that you say that,
because twenty fourteen was when the first state legalized marijuana.
We did an entire show about this. And the potency,
as you say, is extremely high in a lot of
the edibles that are available now compared to like in
nineteen seventy. You know, if your dad or your maybe
your grandfather was smoking a joint, it was like a
(34:33):
few percent potency. Now it can be like ninety percent potency.
And as you say, a lot of young people are
going after these like edibles that look like candy.
Speaker 18 (34:44):
And the discreetness of them as well, like you could
do it anywhere.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, that's that's a really interesting point. Kathleen Madison, What
do you think about that? And you know, do you
see that as well among your peers.
Speaker 7 (35:02):
Yeah, I've been talking a lot about this recently As
a ex marijuana user. I always bring that up when
I talk about why stop smoking and my reflections on
smoking weed in high school, because I'm like, I've had
some horrific experiences with weed, and because you know, around
twenty fourteen, when things were starting to get legalized, no
(35:25):
one really wanted to talk about the dangers of weed
because people were so focused on the skull of you know,
criminalizing and all that, which I agree with, like you
shouldn't go to prison for weed. But at the same time,
if you're fifteen years old and your brain isn't developed
and you're taking like I don't know the percentage, but
like a dab that could feels like it's going to
end your life. That's not normal and that's not something
(35:47):
that should be like, oh, it's fine, and it's just weed.
Like weed potency is crazy. I mean, I remember I
went to Colorado with my dad and he used to
smoke and he took an edible and it was like, WHOA,
I don't remember it being like this. So it has
changed and it's something that we need to consider more.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, Tolliver, I feel like I've made my point by
allowing only gen Z callers on the show, So I'm
going to go for one that's not gen Z right now.
Jenny is in San Antonio, Texas. Hi, Jenny, you're not
gen Z.
Speaker 19 (36:20):
No, I'm not. I'm your mom taking her head in
the conversation. I've raised two gen Z girls, and I
am just, first of all, let me say I'm so
freaking proud of you guys. I mean, y'all have survived
so much. And I know that Jennax tends to take
(36:41):
credit for the neglect and abuse of the boomers, and well, yeah,
we do. But nonetheless, I just wanted to ask to
pose the question, like just overall, I know this is
kind of a high level, you know, question, but like,
(37:03):
I'm just so curious if you guys feel neglected or coddled,
because that has been an ongoing debate among gen X's parents.
You know, when it comes to all of these issues,
cell phones, social media, you know, socialization, and you know, yes,
(37:25):
we definitely see as gen X parents, we see the
stark difference between how we need to socialize as gen
xers and how you guys seem to I don't want
to say lack, but I mean it's very different the
way you guys socialize, and it's almost alien to us.
But we're definitely more concerned than our boomer parents ever
(37:50):
were about us. And and so I just you know,
I know how my girls feel. My two gen z
are feel that I kind of raised them a little
different than most gen xers did. But anyway, I I well, let's.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Ask let's ask Madison Brown, who's on here. Do you
do you feel? Do you feel coddled or neglected by
previous generations?
Speaker 7 (38:17):
Madison, I personally don't feel coddled. I guess it kind
of depends on your parents and like your family, how
they raised you. I think if there's any coddling going on,
it's with each other. But I know I don't feel
like I was necessarily coddled by my parents or older people.
(38:43):
I think, if anything, I did a lot of like
convincing or getting people to try to understand where I'm
coming from. Because there's a general generational difference, like with
mental health or something like that.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Interesting is calling from Boston, Massachusetts, another gen Z caller,
and go ahead, Hello.
Speaker 17 (39:07):
Good evening. I'm calling in from Boston, mass And yes,
I was born in nineteen ninety nine and so I
identify as gen Z.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
And what do you think are the big challenges that
your generation faces?
Speaker 17 (39:23):
Oh, I was calling into poses the question around how
the technologies that gen Z grew up around has affected
our social and civil development, particularly because these technologies like
(39:45):
the Internet and smartphones are very immersive in nature and
they can sort of occupy a large portion of one's
worldview depending on how much they include these technologies in
our lives, and I think that that has like a
(40:07):
profound effect on basically how people of our generation view
their social and civil lives.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Great, great question and something we've been touching on. But Gene,
what about that specific question about how it's affected their development?
Speaker 9 (40:29):
Yeah, and there's still a lot of unknowns out there,
but we do know that teens and young adults are
spending a lot less time with each other in person.
So through middle school and high school, they're just a
lot less likely to just hang out with their friends
or go to the mall or drive around in the car,
or go to a party compared.
Speaker 8 (40:51):
To previous generations.
Speaker 9 (40:52):
So that has some you know, obvious implications for social
development and social skills. A lot of the stuff that
Madison was talking about about, you know, the idea.
Speaker 8 (41:01):
Of oh, I'm glad that we canceled plans.
Speaker 9 (41:05):
I think that that does have some roots in the pandemic,
but it goes back even further than that because the
social interaction piece that's been declining since the early twenty tens.
And then in terms of the civic development, you know,
we've touched on some of those issues around political polarization
and when you get your news from social media instead
(41:27):
of a centralized source, well, there's advantages to that because
then it's more democratic, so to speak, more people have
a voice. On the other hand, it's also more atomized
and you can get you can expose yourself to only
the news that you want to see and only the
viewpoints that you want to see, and that seems to
have increased the divide in our country.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Ryan is calling in from Minneapolis. Hi, Ryan, go ahead
with your thoughts, are you gen z.
Speaker 20 (41:57):
Yes I was born in two thousand and one. And
I think think the greatest challenge is a general sense
of apathy that kind of seems to be permeating our
generation to do a lot of the political and social
headwinds that were facing.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
The political and social headwinds being the kinds of things
we heard about a little bit earlier. Are there specific
issues that you're thinking about there?
Speaker 20 (42:21):
Yeah, generally like global climate change and kind of like
rising political tensions and authoritarians.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Now you say apathy. You were born in two thousand
and one, so you've had an election that you were
able to vote in at least one. Are you voting,
Do you feel apathy that you don't want to vote,
or do you want to be involved in politics?
Speaker 20 (42:43):
I'm personally voting, and a lot of people in my
social circles are as well. But I also noticed that
within people that are voting, they don't seem to be
as deeply involved in the politics of what they're voting for.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Interesting, Ryan, thank you and Madison on the issue of
whether you know gen z is voting in big numbers,
do you expect that kind of apathy that we just
heard about there in the coming election, the midterms next
year or the voting age gen z or is going
to get out in force.
Speaker 7 (43:18):
I really hope they get out in force because the
last election and my sort of political social bubble that
apathy was really present. Apathy was present, and also this
idea that if you're voting for either side, you're voting
for genocide. And I understand where people were coming from,
but I don't think that ended well for us, because
(43:40):
I don't think anyone wanted Trump to win in my
social political circle, anyone who's against genocide so much to
the point that they won't even vote for Kamala.
Speaker 8 (43:49):
They don't want Trump.
Speaker 7 (43:50):
But you know, this is a very layered conversation, but
I think a part of that is apathy of like
it doesn't matter anyway.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
I don't feel like they can have an effect. Tolliver,
what else is coming in online?
Speaker 3 (44:06):
All right, we've got Rebecca. She says, I'm a boomer here.
Young people I talk to and hear about feel quite
hopeless for many reasons, echoing Madison. Our current government, in
the form of Donald Trump, seem not to care about
the future. And it's pretty evident. So you know what,
I want to get back to a call or whatever.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
But yeah, well, but because because we have so many
that are still We've got some young people still on
the lines. And just a few minutes left, let's go
to Joe, who's in San Antonio, Texas. Joe, are you
gen Z and what are your thoughts?
Speaker 7 (44:41):
So?
Speaker 13 (44:41):
Yes, I am gen Z. I was born in two
thousand and seven, and very briefly, I just wanted to
touch on I feel like we know social media is
an issue, but we're not focused on why it's an issue.
I think that a lot of people who feel isolated,
people in margin communities, trans people, women, a lot of
(45:03):
people go online to seek that community. But once certain algorithms,
certain you know, websites, everything tracks that you're part of
the community, they purposefully this is something that was actually
looked at, They will purposely send you more and more
hate because that hate will get engagement from those groups
(45:27):
and cause you to stay online longer. And that type
of hate that you see every single day if you
log on, if you check the news, if you do anything,
you see that catered to you, and it makes you think,
I don't really want to talk to people in real
life because what if they are all like that? What
if I'm talking to somebody and they are going to
(45:48):
look at me and say you don't belong here.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Joe, let me just ask you one quick follow up question,
which is do you feel like you had adequate training
in your life at any point to deal with social
media and these algorithms that are targeting you and trying
to get you to stay on longer and stuff like that.
Speaker 13 (46:06):
I think that I had great training for the Internet
before this point. My parents were very well thought out,
very good, well educated, and they made sure that I
did not have broader Internet access until I was much older.
Speaker 15 (46:23):
However, I was trained.
Speaker 13 (46:25):
For an Internet that does not have the precision that.
Speaker 15 (46:29):
It has now.
Speaker 13 (46:30):
So now I'm completely unable to handle just the pure
amount of hate no matter what you do, no matter
what sites you're on. I don't have Snapchat, I don't
have social media. I'm only on YouTube and Safari, the
web browser, and yet still I would get targeted like hate,
and it's very concerning.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Joe. Thank you so much for calling in and and
also for making it so that we had an entire
show of callers that were nothing but gen Z except
one parent of gen Z kids, Madison. I'm going to
give you the final word here. What are you optimistic
about as a gen Z person right now.
Speaker 7 (47:15):
Well, we talk a lot with each other online. We're
very aware of the good and.
Speaker 8 (47:23):
The bad at least.
Speaker 7 (47:24):
Again, it's hard to say. I can't speak for all
gen Z algorithms really kind of put you into this
echo chamber. I try to break out of it. But
we're a very open generation, so I think as we
age and mature, we can also mature in the way
that we communicate and kind of course correct. So I
(47:49):
have hope for our generation to find solutions and to
keep an open mind. That's kind of gen Z's whole thing,
I think is being open minded, sometimes to a fault
where it kind of circles back around to being closed minded.
But I feel like, yeah, we're very talkative, communicative, so
(48:10):
I think.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
That's a good a good A good note to end
on Madison Brown, YouTuber, thank you so much. And Gene Tweingie,
professor of psychology at San Diego State University, author of
the new book Ten Rules for Raising Kids in a
High Tech World and also the book Generations. Thanks to
both of you. Thank you for having me and Telliver
we really ate that. And left note crumbs. Don't forget
to subscribe to our podcast. We've got extra episodes of
(48:33):
our One Thing Trump Did podcast every week, only available
on The Middle podcast Feed. Subscribe to our YouTube channel.
Next week, we'll be back here getting into the big
national conversation about redistricting. We want to know whether you
feel represented by the political process and what fair representation
looks like to you.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Our number is eight four four four Middle. That's eight
four four four six four three three five three, or
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You can also sign up for our free weekly newsletter
and send us your ideas for future show topics.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
The Middle is brought to you by a Long the
Media distributed by Illinois Public Media in Urbana, Illinois. Produced
by Harrison Patino, Danny Alexander sam Bermeistas, John Barthonica Deshler,
and Brandon Condritz. Thanks to Jason Crofter, technical director. Today,
I'm Jeremy Hobson. I will talk to you next week.
Host
Jeremy Hobson
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