August 29, 2025 • 48 mins
On this episode of The Middle, we ask what your thoughts are on the tactics being employed by Immigrations and Customs Enforcement in The Trump Administration's ongoing deportation campaign. Jeremy is joined by Yuma, Arizona Mayor Doug Nicholls and Mary Sanchez, a columnist for the Tribune Content Agency. DJ Tolliver joins as well, plus calls from around the country. #ICE #deportation #immigration #Trump #AlligatorAlcatraz #deportation #migrants
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Support for the Middle comes from the stations that air
the show and from you. Thanks for making a donation
at listen Toothmiddle dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to the Middle.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
I'm Jeremy Hobson along with our house DJ Tolliver and Tolliver.
You know, no matter where you live or where you
go in this country, you probably had some exposure to
President Trump's deportation efforts.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yeah, a lot of my friends have been protesting for
weeks months in LA and Chicago and like a lot
of the spots they used to go ghost towns now,
so it's a lot to take in interesting.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
You may have seen masked immigration and Customs enforcement or
ICE agents. You may have visited a restaurant with fewer
workers or a home depot with fewer day laborers in
the parking lot because they were afraid of being deported
or being detained by a mistake that's happened. You may
live in Wisconsin, where that judge was arrested for allegedly
trying to help a man in her courtroom evade immigration authorities.
Or maybe you live in Florida, home of Alligator Alcatraz,
(00:58):
the detention center in the Everglade. Here is Governor Ron
de Santis, explaining its purpose in an interview with Fox
News in June.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
This is going to be able to have more than
three thousand illegals. It can be processed through here. We've
got a massive runway right behind us where any of
the federal assets. If they want to fly these people
back to the home country, they can do it one
stop shop.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Well, it turns out that facility, which costs hundreds of
millions of dollars, is now being emptied out after a
judge said it had to be closed within sixty days.
But there are apparently others like it on the way,
the so called Cornhusker Clink in Nebraska, the deportation depot
near Jacksonville. No matter your personal connection to the more
aggressive immigration tactics of the Trump administration, you probably have
(01:43):
some thoughts about them.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Our listeners always do.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Are they needed in this moment? Or they step too far?
That is our question this hour. We're taking your calls
at eight four four four middle that's eight four four
four six four three three five three. But first last
week on the show, we talked about America's loneliness epidemic
and what can be done to solve it. Here are
some of the comments we got on our voicemail.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Hi, this is Ellie.
Speaker 6 (02:04):
I am from Shoreview, Minnesota, and I think loneliness in
general is very common for the younger generations, especially with
social media and the lack of accessibility to outdoor places that.
Speaker 7 (02:17):
Don't include athletics and things like that.
Speaker 8 (02:20):
I'm a named Belichia Beans from hunting to Meet, California.
I think that after the COVID nineteen pandemic, a lot
of in person third spaces.
Speaker 9 (02:31):
Just don't exist anymore.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Because of the Internet and everyone going online. It seems
really hard just to have the day to day chance
interactions with people.
Speaker 8 (02:41):
Hi, this is that coming from Colorado Springs. One of
the things that I think is contributing to the loneliest
epidemic is how much energy we all are putting into
the political climate every day. And so I think one
of the ways that civic leaders could address the loneliest
epidemic is by trying to cool the temperature.
Speaker 10 (03:01):
A little bit.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Well, thanks to everyone who called in, and you could
subscribe to our podcast The Middle wherever you get your
podcast to hear that entire episode. So now to our
question this hour, what do you think of ICE's tactics, Tolliver,
how can people reach us?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, you can call us at eight four four four
Middle that's eight four four four six four three three
five three, or you can write us at Listen to
the Middle dot com. You can also comment on our
live stream on YouTube. I'll say it again, listen to
the Middle dot com. We already have emails coming in.
Hit me with some morow I'll get you on air.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
And I was telling somebody earlier what the topic of
the show was. I want to make sure I pronounced
this properly. I'm not asking you about ISIS tactics like ISIS.
It's ice ic apostate important tactics. We're talking about immigration
joining us this hour. Doug Nichols, Republican mayor of you Arizona,
which is right on the Mexican border. Mayor Nichols, great
to have you back on the Middle.
Speaker 10 (03:49):
Thanks for having me back such a great time the
first time. I appreciate the second thought.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
We are grateful to have you and Mary Sanchez also
back with US Kansas City based journalists and colonists with
a Tribune content agency.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Mary, great to have you back as well.
Speaker 11 (04:01):
Great, thank you.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
All right, So before we get to the phones.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Maryor Nichols, as a Republican who was supportive of tougher
immigration policy, what do you think of the tactics being
used by ICE that we just talked about under President Trump?
Speaker 10 (04:14):
Well, you know, I think it's an interesting discussion point
because here in Yuma, where you would expect those tactics
to be in full use, they're not. We don't see
any of these massive ice raids, We don't have any
of those setups with the courts or anything like that.
(04:35):
So I'm having a hard time putting my arms around
some of it. I think some of it's probably a
little bit overblown by coverage. I think some of it
is for shock and awe to like have the the
new sheriff in town making sure that people know what
the approaches and the fact that we're pushing back on immigration.
(04:57):
So I think it's a mix of tactics besides what's
happening on the streets. But what's really the intention behind
the two or three different approaches to reporting on it
and what their effects really are.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I mean, do you think that you're not seeing it
there because you're in the same party as the president.
Although the governor of Arizona is a Democrat.
Speaker 10 (05:20):
And our two senators are Democrats. No, I think it's
it's more because I think those are the exceptions, not
the rules. As far as how the immigration arrests are happening,
I'm not saying they're not happening that way. I'm just
saying that I think that's not the standing operating procedure
for ICE. I think it's in the extremely large cities,
(05:41):
you have extremely large protests, you have extremely large groups
of individuals that all fall into the category that are
subject to the arrest orders. So I think that's it.
But I mean every country, every community in the United
States is an experiencing the ICE arrest.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Is the same the same, Mary, What are you seeing
in Kansas City? How is this playing out there?
Speaker 12 (06:07):
We're seeing everything that you described, but not at the
massive scale that you might in Los Angeles. What a
lot of people within the civil rights community really believes
that that's almost like a test place, largely by demographics,
but that some of those same tactics.
Speaker 11 (06:25):
I mean we have seen here.
Speaker 12 (06:26):
We have an immigration court, and up until probably about
a month month and a half ago, there were some
cases where they, you know, an immigrant would show up
ready to have their case heard.
Speaker 11 (06:39):
You know, totally illegal.
Speaker 12 (06:40):
They were doing what they were asked to do, and
the case was dismissed and then they were immediately taken
into custody. We're a regional area for the federal government,
so we have ice offices here, FBI, US Marshals, all
the letter agencies. But they've had court monitor watchers, people
who are train to just be there as a witness,
(07:02):
and that seems to have stopped that within our court
here in Kansas City. But we've had everything else too.
We've had massed agents, you know, a lot of different
sidings of different people in different areas. We have had
some smaller raids where like some restaurants were hit owned
by the same owner and both of the locations were
(07:26):
rated for lack of a better term and workers were
taken out in the early morning.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Mary Nichols, as we listened to Mary Sanchez describe what's
happening there, and we've heard, you know, anecdotal accounts all
around the country. It's quite clear that the crackdown is
going far beyond people who are violent criminals and gang members.
A lot of other people are who may have been
in this country for years are being snatched up.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
How do you feel about.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
That given that the president did run on a promise
of getting rid of the violent criminals and the gang
members at least first.
Speaker 10 (08:01):
All right, so, my discussions with our Bord patrol agents
that are actually HUMA agents that have been spread across
the country to help the ro efforts in that is,
you know, if they're going after one criminal migrant that
needs to be deported or go through a process and
they run into two or three that are also out
(08:22):
of immigration status and they get picked up, that's what
they're focused on. They do not have standing orders to
go after anybody. The people that they're looking to go
after are the ones that are are criminal. Now, however,
if there's a criminal member in a family and a
non criminal member in a family, but they're in the
same location during you know, interdiction or raid or whatever
(08:45):
you want to refer to them, then they get picked
up because they're also not of that. You know, they're
also in violation of the law even though they don't
have a criminal background.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Mary, how do the people that you speak with, as
the ordinary people in Cans the city feel about the
fact that that it's far beyond just criminals being targeted.
Speaker 12 (09:06):
I think it depends on how aware they are, frankly,
how much they understand about immigration law, which is incredibly complicated.
It's supposed to be the second most complicated form of
our government, second only to the tax code. So I
understand why people don't know about it.
Speaker 11 (09:25):
That's why I've been.
Speaker 12 (09:25):
Doing a lot of explanatory writing on different cases. I
think as people hear more and more, they're a little
bit mortified, partly because they don't understand. They're like, how
is it that someone could go to work in the
morning and literally see their place being rated. We had
one restaurant here where they left food cooking on the
(09:47):
stove when they haul people out of there and just
put a like it was on a legal pad, closed
taped to the door, And there was one worker who
was showing up for work and saw that and didn't
know what had happened.
Speaker 11 (10:02):
She hadn't heard yet.
Speaker 12 (10:04):
I think there's just a lot of fear and lack
of understanding. It kind of depends on who you are, though.
I mean, one of the things I'm really worried about
a lot of false narratives about latinos. I mean, eight
out of ten of us are US citizens. First of all,
some US citizens have been picked up though in some
of those kind of let's just scoop a wide net.
Speaker 11 (10:25):
So it causes.
Speaker 12 (10:26):
People to fear and question, and I think somewhat unders
get a grasp of that.
Speaker 11 (10:31):
They don't fully understand what's going on.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Do you see that fear at all among your constituents
in Yuma, Doug Nichols.
Speaker 10 (10:39):
You know, we're sixty to seventy percent Hispanic in our community,
and we don't really have that. Actually, during the last
previous four years, in the previous administration, when the swarms
of people were coming through our community, there was more
of an outrage about that than this have. I guess
(11:01):
you want to call them raids, But they're are nine checks.
We're making sure that people that are employed and the
employer's done the right check to make sure that they
can work. And those are resulting in like one or
two people at a time. So that doesn't really resonate
a whole lot of fear throughout our communities. So I
(11:21):
don't I'm not getting that from the community as a whole.
There are some people, and we do have some minor
protests that express those fears.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Okay, Tolliver, You know, one of the faces of the
Trump administration's crackdown has been Tom Homan, who was actually
appointed to a senior pedition positioned at ICE by President
Obama in twenty thirteen, and it served as President Trump's
borders are in the second term.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, and he's defended the deportation policies. Here he is
in an interview with CBS's Lilia Luciano.
Speaker 10 (11:50):
I think we're doing the right thing.
Speaker 13 (11:51):
This country safer because what we're doing, we're keeping our
promised to American people.
Speaker 7 (11:55):
Would you say that the strategy of arresting the worst
of the worst has shifted?
Speaker 13 (11:59):
No, will we go out and do these operations or
shovel going on right now across the country. We're targeting
public safety, trust, national security threasts. Now, I'll have you
on that. No one's off the table priorities. If you're
in the country legally, you're on the table.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
By the way, ICE has a goal of arresting three
thousand people today, but as of July that number was
closer to one thousand.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Well, I wonder where that is interesting.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Because it's hard to find that many people who are
especially violent criminals, but I guess it's hard to find
people who are just in the country without documentation as well,
that many per day.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
We'll be right back with more of your calls on
the Middle. This is the Middle.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning, in the Middle
is a national call in show. We're focused on elevating
voices from the middle geographically, politically, and philosophically, or maybe
you just want to meet in the Middle. This hour,
we're asking what you think about the tactics of immigration
and Customs enforcement also known as ICE under President Trump.
Tolliver the number again, please.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four sixty four three three five three. You can also
write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
I'm checking and I'm joined by Yuma Arizona mayor, Doug Nichols,
and Mary Sanchez, a columnist for the Tribute Content Agency.
And the phone lines are lighting up, So let's go
to Janine, who is in Minneapolis. Janine, go ahead with
your thoughts about the immigration tactics of the Trump administration.
Speaker 7 (13:26):
Hi, Yes, thank you for having me on. And my
thought is that I'm an independent voter, not really a Democrat,
not really a Republican, voted for both parties in my lifetime.
But what I'm seeing right now makes me not even
recognize America. I just think it's horrifying. It's like we
(13:47):
have lost our humanity. We're just turning into this cruel country.
And the thing that really bothers me is, you know,
when Trump was running, it was about getting the elite
people out. Okay, nobody's against making sure that people come
to the country legally, but it's been lost. Now it's
(14:08):
rounding a people. Now we have minimum numbers of people
that need to get rounded up. They are sent to
horrible places like Alligator Alcatraz. They're sent to countries that
they have no reason to be sent to, to terrible
facilities in those countries. And it's just horrifying to me.
I don't recognize America. It makes me very sad, and
(14:30):
I don't know what has happened to us. I don't
know where our humanity and our empaty has gone well.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
And Genine, let me just ask, are you seeing this personally?
Have you seen any of this directly or are you
seeing it in the news.
Speaker 7 (14:43):
I have seen it directly. I've seen it where they've
come through Minneapolis and they've gone into areas. I will say,
the folks in those areas bought back and really put
a stock to some of that. I give those people
a lot of credit. The other thing, you know, to
be honest, The other way that I just sort of
(15:05):
anecdotally see it is that when I go anywhere, if
you go to a restaurant, if you're in a hotel,
we always saw lots of Latin people, right, lots of
Mexican people working. They're not there anymore. I don't know
where they are, but I never see them anymore. They're
not around. I don't see them on the streets. I
don't see them in the grocery stores. They've sort of disappeared.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Janine, thank you so much for that call.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Mary Sanchez, How does that square with what you're you're
hearing about where you are and just the level of
fear I guess among Latinos, whether they're in the country
legally or not.
Speaker 12 (15:42):
It squares with it. I mean, you will hear those voices,
you know. I went to a grand opening of a
new El Mercado Fresco, and there were hundreds of people,
almost all Latino, that were there, but everyone said, well,
we feel like this is a safe place. Then I
also know of people who this one woman I can
think of, she owns a salon.
Speaker 11 (16:03):
She's legal.
Speaker 12 (16:04):
A lot of her clients are undocumented or their mixed
status family, some of their family members might be She
will close the door and lock it behind people just
for their comfort and.
Speaker 11 (16:20):
Sure, and a lot of this is based on just
a fear.
Speaker 12 (16:23):
There's the administration has said that they want people to
self deport you know, so part of the tactic is
fear intimidation.
Speaker 11 (16:34):
We're going to come for you. You don't know where
you're going to be picked up.
Speaker 12 (16:37):
We had some people here recently who were fishing, and
we're not quite sure who it was that came upon
them first, but asked about a fishing license, which they
didn't have. They're in deportation proceedings right now, or it's
technically called removal proceedings, and we don't know if it
was a ranger, if it was a county sheriff. You know,
other people have been driving. You roll through a stop
(16:59):
sign and that's how you're apprehended. Those are not the
violent criminals, by the government's own data some of the
most recent that's been crushed. It's about seven percent of
the people who have been arrested for removal. Only about
seven percent actually had a violent conviction, which I think
(17:20):
most people would be okay with if it's truly a
violent and they've served their time, you know, for the
victims so that they feel like they had justice. I
think most people would be okay with that type of.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Removal, right, Nichols.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
I mean you talked about the fear, you talked about
the the idea that this is about sort of like
you get something on TV and you're sort of scaring
people maybe into self deporting. Are you seeing people decide
that they are ready to just go back to their
country of origin because they're afraid where you are in Yuma.
Speaker 10 (17:55):
Well, actually, you could just see that by the numbers
trying across the border. You know, we were at fifteen
hundred people a day at peak people trying across the border.
Now we're at four.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, I think the almost nothing right.
Speaker 10 (18:09):
Clear, right, you know, and so it gives a sense
of security to the border.
Speaker 6 (18:14):
Now.
Speaker 10 (18:14):
I know my last name is not Hispanic, but my
wife's previous last name, her main name is. You know,
it's not like I'm removed from any of the culture
that is existence in my community. And people again were
more concerned about the fifteen hundred coming through with a
very very very limited vetting and just being released than
(18:39):
they are of at least in my community and what
I've been experiencing. At least from that perspective, then, you know,
people be getting picked up if they're not supposed to
be here, whatever their status is. Then that seems to
be the counter motion to where we were for the
last four years. So there is a sense of of
(19:00):
security for a lot of people in my region. So
I guess it's very regional.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Let's go to Lisa in Kansas City where Mary is. Lisa,
Welcome to the middle go ahead.
Speaker 14 (19:12):
I mean, I almost can't talk about it without crime.
I'm a lifetime messed around tour. I'm sixty years old
and I started early, you know, in my teens. Our industry,
of course, is employed many undocumented workers. They've also taken
(19:36):
me into their homes and I've known their families, and
I just I'm stunned. I'm stunned at the rack of
humanity and the fact that this administration puts every other
thing first, every single everything first.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
It's just.
Speaker 14 (20:00):
So this heart me. You know, I'm anything that I
don't want to study.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Have you seen any raise yourself in your in your restaurants?
Have you had to deal with that directly?
Speaker 8 (20:13):
I have not.
Speaker 14 (20:14):
And here's why I'm an independent contractor. I'm not. I
don't employ people. I do work in places all right
where people are employed. And and and I don't know
who is or who isn't, but I look around and
(20:35):
and I know that, you know, they're mixed households of people.
Some are and some are not documented and they're all
reading in fear. That's my issue, like invoking fear when
we already struggle with that as human beings to begin with.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Yeah, I'm yeah, Lisa. Thank you very much, joh for
calling in. I really appreciate it. And I'm going to
go to Tamaron, who's in Brigham City, Utah. Tamaron, go
ahead with your thoughts.
Speaker 15 (21:05):
I just live here in I mean, it's a growing
area here in Utah, and we're seeing a lot of
a lot of new folks come in. And I write
for the local paper here and one of the stories
I was recently assigned was to cover a family who
had taken over one of the fruit stands here, and
(21:26):
the family talked a little bit about being an immigrant
family coming from Mexico forty years ago and becoming a
part of this community over that, you know, forty years time.
And it was just something where where I had started
talking with some folks around me in the at the
paper and in my family, and just things that I
(21:47):
had started to see online and in person. You know,
I had very recently seen some ice officers at a
grocery store arresting a man. I have no no additional
knowledge on that, but it started to you know, just
oddly concerned me and maybe I shouldn't be talking about
immigrants anymore, that there's just a you know, angry rhetoric
(22:12):
that's that that's just come over things. I just got
real concerned about it and including it as part of
the story. And yet at the same time, you know,
it is still a part of their story. It's part
of America's story, right, It's we're all immigrants from other places,
you know.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Just worried that even just by reporting on it, that
it could it could hurt I guess immigrants who are
who are in the country, Tameron, thank you very much
for that, called Doug Nichols. I mean, we're hearing a
theme here from different people in different places that they
are they're upset about sort of the fear that's being
instilled in places around the country.
Speaker 10 (22:50):
Sure, and I think that. I think what the last
caller kind of hinted at was the uh, the rhetoric
of fear and hate, and I think that is something
that needs to get removed from the discussion. I think
it's used on both sides of the topic to to
generate sympathy, to generate narrative. You know, at the end
(23:10):
of the day, what we're talking about are people who
broke the law generally, you know, arrests or not. I
don't care what you're being arrested for. It's not the
best day of your life, right, I mean, they're they're
they're aggressive, You're being taken a place you don't want
to go. I mean, I don't think that's unusual, whether
you're being arrested for as an American citizen for something
(23:34):
you did to break a law here or someone that's
come from another country. I don't think that process is
ever going to look Disney esque but you know, at
the end of the day, there there were millions of
people let into this country, and I think that's what
we're trying to do, is trying to get things rebalanced
out and the.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Do you think that the only way to do that though,
is to have like people be afraid, to have agents
wearing masks, to have people be sent to really bad prisons,
not just regular prisons, but like surrounded by alligators or
in El Salvador, where you know, you.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Is the only way for the Trump administration to accomplish
its goal of dealing with illegal immigration to have these
kinds of taxes and scare people.
Speaker 10 (24:21):
So you know, I'm not inside operations. I don't know
what their other chances are of doing different methods, but
I do know for the last four years, they had
two tents set up here in Yuma for eight hundred
people a piece to weather through the winter, the summer,
through the whole process of coming into the country. And
(24:43):
that's if they didn't die in the desert. We had
fifty people a year die in the desert trying to
get through here. Numerous stories of rape and just horrific
things that people are telling come across the border. So,
I mean, what we're talking about is a bad situation
from beginning to end. And I think what we could
(25:04):
really be focused on is not perpetuating the hate on
either side. I mean doxing federal law enforcement agents requiring
them to have the mask up so they don't get
docksed is a problem too. I mean that's not something
that we should be doing as Americans either. So I
don't have the answer. I don't know that there's a
(25:26):
softer and nicer way to get this done. However, there
was definitely part of the election process was the Americans
wanted to see a different motion, a different process than
what was being done in the previous.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Four tolliver what is coming in Online?
Speaker 10 (25:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
David in Minneapolis says Trump's immigration policy has little to
do with immigration and everything to do with attacking and
intimidating blue states and areas period. And then Greg and
Boise says, masked, unidentified armed men kidnapping people off the
street is illegal. It's meant to distract from the fact
that Trump's policies are a disaster for the economy. It's
also meant to cause unrest. So Trump can declare martial law,
(26:06):
cancel the elections in twenty twenty six, and keep himself
in power and an area I kind.
Speaker 10 (26:11):
Of wanted to ask you about that.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Do you think that this is part of a larger
strategy from the Trump administration.
Speaker 12 (26:18):
Read Project twenty twenty five. I mean, yes, there are
some larger strategies. I don't know that he's always orchestrating
all of it, but there is this essence and move
towards more authoritarian, more taking over and taking people's basic
civil rights. I mean, it's really a civil violation and
(26:41):
immigration status. It's not a criminal illegal act. Even our
immigration courts, they're not criminal, they're not civil, they're administrative.
I mean most people don't even understand that. So that's
part of the whole verbiage there is, you know, to
the mayor's point. I mean, one of the big things
that people are looking at, and it's in fear of
(27:01):
that extremes, is civil rights leaders across the country and
in Kansas City as well, are already talking about just
the need to train and grind into nonviolence, nonviolent protests
because after October you're going to have more armed guards.
(27:21):
They're sending in more of our National Guard troops everywhere.
They're not trained in de escalation all it takes.
Speaker 11 (27:29):
And we've already had some issues here.
Speaker 12 (27:30):
I've written on this where frankly, people screaming about fascists
and Nazis and all this, and that can really screw
up something that's occurring.
Speaker 11 (27:42):
Or it is so easy to escalate things.
Speaker 12 (27:45):
And if you're supposed to be a silent witness who
is documenting, you cannot be doing that. Number One, that
tape cannot be used in some of these federal court
cases that are challenging the tactics. There's you know, there's
a lot going on all at once. There there is
this huge need to train people so that they can
(28:07):
take that passion and you know, implement it in a
way that actually can help us bring us back to
where we want to be as a country.
Speaker 11 (28:16):
And like the mayor was saying.
Speaker 12 (28:17):
To do it the right way and that you can
change the laws, you can manage this. You don't have
to be grabbing people off the streets. There are ways
to do immigration that would not involve fear, hatred, stereotyping,
all of that.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
I want to get the mayor's thoughts on that right
after this break. But Tolliver, if you look at the
poll numbers, Republicans are still in favor of the tactics
being used by ICE, Democrats and independents believe they've gone
too far.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, but the king of podcasting, Joe Rogan after you.
Of course, Jeremy, who supported Trump's reelection, had some choice
words for ICE operations in an episode of his show
back in June.
Speaker 16 (28:59):
Ice Raiser nuts man. I don't think if they the
Trump administration, if they're running and they said we're going
to go to home depot and we're going to arrest
all the people at home depot, We're going to go
to construction sites and we're going to just like tackle
people with constructions. I don't think anybody would signed up
for that. They said we're going to get rid of
the criminals and the gang members first, right, and now
(29:19):
we're we're seeing like home depots get raided.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Like that's crazy, Telliver, I think I make one two
hundred and fifty millionth.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Of the salary of Joe Rogan, by the way, close enough,
and let's just.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Let get that out there. We'll be right back with
more of the middle. This is the middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson.
This hour, we're asking how you feel about the tactics
of ICE under President Trump. You can call us at
eight four four four Middle that's eight four four four
six four three three five three.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
You can also reach out at Listen to the Middle
dot com.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
I'm joined by Kansas City based columnist Mary Sanchez with
Tribune Content Agency, and you met Arizona Mayor Doug Nichols,
a Republican. And joining us now on the phone from
Chapel Hill, North Carolina, is Tom.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Tom, go ahead with your thoughts about ICE's tactics.
Speaker 9 (30:08):
Hey, well, yeah, I mean a lot of what people
have said already I agree with you know, the mask
is unreasonable, approaching authoritarianism. But the one thing that nobody
has talked about so far is the fact that a
lot of people in this country without papers are here
to claim asylum political asylum, and what one thing they
(30:32):
should be doing is fixing the court system. You know,
they're understaff, they're overworked, there's not enough judges to process
these cases. That needs to be fixed. And if you
if you approach immigration from the way our laws have
been set up, I think that that's going to solve
(30:53):
a lot of the problems. I think that the Trump
administration's approach is one of fear, as other people said,
and also playing to his base. You know, he promised
to deport I don't remember how many millions it was
of people, but I don't think people understand what impact
(31:14):
that would really have on the economy if they did
deport fifteen million people or whatever it was. You know,
there's there's I mean, I could go on and on.
Speaker 10 (31:23):
I don't want to.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
You've brought up here, You've brought up some good points,
So let me let me take those to our guests.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Mayor Nichols a lot in there.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
First of all, are you worried about the economic impact
of deporting as many people as the Trump administration is
going to deport?
Speaker 10 (31:38):
Well, so locally now, you know, as I mentioned, when
they do an I nine engagement whatever however you want
to refer to, that, that opportunity where they're only walking
away with one or two people at a time. Uh,
the community here we produced ninety percent of the leafy
greens that United States and Canada consume every winner. So
(32:02):
if you've eading a salad during the summer, it's come
from Yuma. But the farmers who hire all the labor
do not want labor that is not documented. They want
only documented labor. So we're not going to see that
impact here in our community. Are we going to see
it in New York or in la I can't speak
to that, but here locally, those are things that we've
(32:25):
looked into. I've talked to our major employers. They're not
anticipating any lack of workforce to that's going to affect
how we produce our economy here in Yuma.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Let's go to Nova, who is in New London, Connecticut. Nova,
go ahead with your thoughts.
Speaker 5 (32:45):
I'm younger compared to most of the people responding to this.
I'm only twenty, and honestly, I am scared. You wouldn't
think in backwater Connecticut there would be a fear for this,
but there is. The most I'd heard about immigration before
it became such a large political standpoint was a raid
(33:09):
that happened eight years prior, and people talked about it
as if it was a marvel or something that definitely
didn't happen often. And the way I interpe of it
as well was like, not something to be scared of.
But I am scared, and I feel deceived by the
(33:30):
Trump administration. If anything, what they're promising is not what
they're doing, especially hearing all the news stories about citizens
being deported as well, children, babies, not just criminals.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Have you seen with your own eyes any of the
things we're talking about or is it mostly what you're
seeing and reading in the news.
Speaker 5 (33:52):
Mostly what I'm seeing and reading in the news, but
also local news. I have heard of ice raids and
people getting pulled over over for flags, even bumper stickers
on flags as bumper stickers. I've seen stories of local
people Hartford, New London, people fighting back. There's a huge
movement here for know your Rights pamphlets and don't open
(34:15):
the doors.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Nov Thank you for calling, and also love to have
a twenty year old that we have one in every
show at least, I appreciate your call. By the way,
next week we're going to be talking about the challenges
of Generation Z, so tune in for that one as well.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
But thank you for that. Mary Sanchez.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
You know we're again we're hearing from people around the
country who are really feeling that fear. I don't want
to just ask the same question over and over again,
but this seems like this is the theme.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Do you think that this is.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Going to play out among voters as we get into
the midterm elections next year.
Speaker 12 (34:48):
If redistricting early doesn't change some of that in some areas,
that's a whole other show you can do.
Speaker 11 (34:56):
I do think it will, and partly because people.
Speaker 12 (34:58):
They sense that they know, I know that there's something
intrinsically unfair about a lot of these tactics, even if
they don't understand or somehow have dismissed that even someone
with an undocumented status has legal rights.
Speaker 11 (35:14):
You have legal rights in this country. They just know
that it's wrong.
Speaker 12 (35:19):
The other thing is, I think she did mention or
several people have the idea of mixed status families, and
I think people kind of that's one part of immigration
that they grasp that, you know. I mean, one of
the things is I'm thinking statistics like more than eight
percent of all children in the US live in a
household with at least one undocumented member. Now they're starting
(35:42):
to work on some of these studies now about what
would be the impact if you removed x percentage of
the undocumented population with right now we think is about
fourteen million people, which is high. It's higher than it's
a higher percentage per capita than.
Speaker 11 (35:58):
It's been in Deck Gates.
Speaker 12 (36:00):
So, I mean people are reacting to something that's very real,
and I think you need to like honor that that's
a truth, but it's what you do and how you
manage it. And I think what people are understanding is
that these literally are your neighbors, and it's a mixed
status family. It may be a child who's a US citizen,
(36:20):
but it might be their parent. Do you want that
parent remove from the home? And what does that do
to the child? What does that do to a school system?
You know, what are we disrupting here long term in
terms of our economy, mental health, communities.
Speaker 11 (36:37):
There's just it's a.
Speaker 12 (36:38):
Really wide net that's being cast in terms of what
the impacts can be, and they're not positive.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Mary Nichols, let me ask you.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
You mentioned that illegal immigration has dropped down significantly. What
do you say, four people as opposed to fifteen hundred
a year ago. It's down overall more than ninety percent
in July compared with last year. Is there a point
you see at which the emergency that Trump declared that
led to all this aggressive immigration enforcement comes to an end?
Speaker 10 (37:11):
Definitely. I think there would would be a natural opportunity
to make that happen. I don't know what that number is.
I know the fourteen million that Mary referred to, there
was a large percentage of that are recent within the
last four or five years, and so I think that's
probably the target area is to try to you know,
reset that because when those people showed up in our communities,
(37:35):
that disrupted our schools, that disrupted a lot of things too.
So I mean there's a disruption in the whole the
whole process. But I'd like to just kind of tag
on to what Mary talked about, and that is elections
in Arizona, we redistrict, redistricted right after the census. We
do it a lot earlier than most and so that's
(37:56):
that landscape is not going to change for us. But
if the effort and the energy is put forward by
the community, members need to be focused towards that. Because
everything that has happened since the eighties and nineties in
immigration falls under the law, the same immigration law. It's
the policy that changes from administration to administration. So when
(38:18):
Obama declared, you know, we're going to make sure that
the dreamers have an opportunity to get things right. Well
that was quite a while ago, right, how many of
them have so if they're end up in a situation now, well,
it's not like it was just yesterday that that was
mentioned that you know, Okay, we've got a situation, let's
(38:39):
put a pause button on deportations. But it wasn't a
forever pause. It was something to get fixed. So, I mean,
I think there is a lot of complexity when you
start talking immigration and you just say there's a specific number.
I don't know that you could, but definitely this would
definitely have to come to an end at some point.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Jennifer is calling from Pomona Park, Florida. Hi, Jennifer, Welcome
to the middle Go ahead.
Speaker 17 (39:04):
Hi.
Speaker 18 (39:05):
Yeah, I'm really really upset and experiencing something quite different
from your gentlemen from Arizona. My community is sixty five
percent Hispanic, and I just looked up.
Speaker 17 (39:19):
The date of it.
Speaker 18 (39:19):
On May tenth thereabouts, Ice came through and with in
cooperation with the States troopers and our local law enforcement
and terrorized our schools. We have two schools. We have
an elementary and a high school, junior senior high school,
(39:40):
and they were harassing parents in the drop offline. They
were buzzing both schools with helicopters and basically just terrorizing
and harassing my neighbors and my friends in this community.
They for all of the money spent and the upset
(40:00):
it caused in our community. They found two undocumented people,
and it just is outrageous as expensive, and it's unnecessary.
We have some real problems in this country and we
could be using that effort and money to address our
(40:21):
genuine problems and not harassing these people that are just
working and raising their family.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Jennifer, thank you very much for that call. Mary Sanchez.
You know, that is an interesting point about the different problems.
There's clearly a disagreement in this country about how much
of a problem illegal immigration is.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
I think you've muted yourself.
Speaker 11 (40:46):
Can you still hear me?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah? No, now you're back.
Speaker 11 (40:48):
Okay, Okay, great. I don't know what happened there, but
I'm back.
Speaker 12 (40:53):
You know, your caller was pointing out something I think
it used to be called the Morton memo.
Speaker 11 (40:59):
And you talk about changing policy. It used to be.
Speaker 12 (41:02):
That churches, schools, and hospitals were off limits. Those weren't
places that ice and previously I ins ever went to.
Speaker 11 (41:15):
They were just considered almost sacred spaces.
Speaker 12 (41:18):
You know, it's a place that you disrupt for this
type of you know, you know, take apprehension for lack
of a better word. That was part of the policy
change under the administration was oh no, no, anywhere's fair game.
Will you put the fear into a school system? I mean,
(41:39):
we have school districts here. That's a Supreme Court law.
It's Pliler versus Doves from nineteen eighty two that no
matter what a child's immigration status is, they are they
are allowed to have a K through twelve education. Now,
the Dreamers, that was for someone who was older, and
we never passed that legislation to give them the rights
(42:02):
of illegal status. We never fixed it for them. It's
just this temporary, same thing for DACA. But those sorts
of changes are what's causing people a lot of you know,
apprehension and fear and the pushback that I think you
might see at elections, especially when you start messing with
people's kids. That's when people start to fight back.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Let me go to another caller, David Is in Denver, Colorado. David,
what are your thoughts about ices tactics?
Speaker 17 (42:32):
Well, I just wanted to say Jeremy and thanks for
taking my call. I am a veteran, a former military
police officer. I've worked with federal law enforcement. This isn't
the way we do business. I also have a wife
who's a thirty year immigrant who's in status, probably seven
years left on our green cart status. We know two people,
one from Great Britain and one from Australia who were
(42:56):
picked up and put in attention, not directly sent back
to their country of origin. It seems tunitive. I'm also
curious about what happened. As a former law enforcement officer,
what happens when they show up at an American citizen's house,
which they've done before by mistake, try to take them
into custody. They're wearing a mask, they don't identify themselves,
(43:17):
and it's a stand by ground state, and one of
these officers get shot. God forbid what happens. Then we
have a real problem. And I think that your former guest,
who identified himself as a Republican, who said that you
know that it's always a bad day when you get
arrested and that this is not disney esque, is not
being completely truthful. We know that Stephen Miller, the assistant
(43:42):
chief of staff, is set of three thousand person to
day quota. You can't do that by getting the worst
of the worst. Stephen Miller's made it clear he wants
every immigrant and what he calls homegrowns gone as well,
and as a freelance writer as well, I've watched hours
of video of them swooping in on da daycare centers
(44:02):
and elementary schools and traumatizing children. This is not the
way we do business as law enforcement in this country.
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Thank you for that call it yes, and thank you
for your service as well, David, And I'm going to
let the mayor respond to what you said there.
Speaker 10 (44:20):
Well, I mean, even back to the previous caller with
the schools. We have a county of two hundred and
twenty thousand people, so we have quite a few schools.
That's never happened here. So I don't know what the
difference is between here and anywhere else in the country,
but we're not seeing that. We're not seeing daycares being
rated or stocked out, and none of that is happening here.
(44:45):
But again, it's one of those things that we do
need to make sure is done right. It's my understanding,
and I've not witnessed any of these grades where people
are masked, but they're still badged as what agency they're with,
So there should still be ability for however you want
(45:06):
to say, at reparations, to make sure those things get fixed.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
So you're okay, You're okay with the masks as long
as they have a badged and they can identify themselves officially.
Speaker 10 (45:14):
Correct. I think that's understandable given the fact that people's
have ideas have been then put online with their home addresses,
and their families have been threatened, and their kids have
been threatened, and they've been stocked. That's not what we
want for a law enforcement officers either. I mean, they
are Americans. They're doing a job the same They're falling
directions like they did in the previous administration where they
(45:37):
just passed people through through the border without worrying about
what their backgrounds are. So I mean, they're doing their job.
So let's not make their lives at danger. Let's show
up at the polls change things the way people want
them to be changed. That's where the energy I think
is best placed. Regardless of what your political position is.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Let me just ask you one other question, Mayor, which
is you know, we've heard people upset about the massed agents.
Somebody brought up the national guard in cities. We've seen
also investigations into political foes by the Trump administration, and
to some of our listeners and to some people in
this country, it's starting to look like authoritarianism.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
We've heard that before.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
As a Republican, do you think it does or when
you hear people say that, you go, oh, come on, relax.
Speaker 10 (46:24):
Well, I think, for instance, the investigations into political foes,
that's not this administration's first. I mean other administrations have
done the same thing, including the last one. So I
think we need to kind of take that paranoia out
of the way. But the as far as the other elements,
I think we need to always step back and take
(46:46):
a look at it. I'm trying to remember your example
or what your specific.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
National guard in the cities and masked agents and stuff
like that.
Speaker 10 (46:53):
Right, So, national guard generally is crowd control. They're not
the ones generally kicking the door down. Usually that's the
feral agents, those that are trained in actual hands on
opportunity because they have to. They're there for crowd control.
They don't have the ability to engage as far as armed.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
So you're not You're not worried about authoritarianism, is what
you're saying.
Speaker 10 (47:17):
You know, you always have to keep it in check,
and that's what elections are for. And if and if
any administration tries to get rid of an election cycle,
I think you're going to see it up people in
this country like never before.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
That is the Republican Mayor of Few may Arizona, Doug Nichols.
We've also been speaking with Mary Sanchez, a colmnists with
Tribute Content Agency.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Thanks so much to both of you for joining us.
Speaker 10 (47:36):
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
And don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. There's extra
episodes of our One Thing Trump Did podcast every week
on the Middle podcast feed. Next week we'll be right
back here talking about the issues that Generation Z faces,
the challenges. So if you are one of our many
gen Z listeners, please call.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
As a member of gen Z.
Speaker 10 (47:55):
I'm very excited. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
Our number is eight four four four Middle that's eight
four four four six four three three five three, Or
you can reach out a Listen to the Middle ck
miss Lip listen to them Middle dot com, where you
can also sign up for our free weekly newsletter.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
The Middle is brought to you by Longnok Media, distributed
by Illinois Public Media in Urbana, Illinois, and produced by
Harrison Patino, Danny Alexander Sanburmstas, John Barthonic Codestler, Brandon Condricks,
and Steve Mork. I'm Jeremy Hobson, and I will talk
to you next week
Support for the Middle comes from the stations that air
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at listen Toothmiddle dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to the Middle.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
I'm Jeremy Hobson along with our house DJ Tolliver and Tolliver.
You know, no matter where you live or where you
go in this country, you probably had some exposure to
President Trump's deportation efforts.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yeah, a lot of my friends have been protesting for
weeks months in LA and Chicago and like a lot
of the spots they used to go ghost towns now,
so it's a lot to take in interesting.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
You may have seen masked immigration and Customs enforcement or
ICE agents. You may have visited a restaurant with fewer
workers or a home depot with fewer day laborers in
the parking lot because they were afraid of being deported
or being detained by a mistake that's happened. You may
live in Wisconsin, where that judge was arrested for allegedly
trying to help a man in her courtroom evade immigration authorities.
Or maybe you live in Florida, home of Alligator Alcatraz,
(00:58):
the detention center in the Everglade. Here is Governor Ron
de Santis, explaining its purpose in an interview with Fox
News in June.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
This is going to be able to have more than
three thousand illegals. It can be processed through here. We've
got a massive runway right behind us where any of
the federal assets. If they want to fly these people
back to the home country, they can do it one
stop shop.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Well, it turns out that facility, which costs hundreds of
millions of dollars, is now being emptied out after a
judge said it had to be closed within sixty days.
But there are apparently others like it on the way,
the so called Cornhusker Clink in Nebraska, the deportation depot
near Jacksonville. No matter your personal connection to the more
aggressive immigration tactics of the Trump administration, you probably have
(01:43):
some thoughts about them.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Our listeners always do.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Are they needed in this moment? Or they step too far?
That is our question this hour. We're taking your calls
at eight four four four middle that's eight four four
four six four three three five three. But first last
week on the show, we talked about America's loneliness epidemic
and what can be done to solve it. Here are
some of the comments we got on our voicemail.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Hi, this is Ellie.
Speaker 6 (02:04):
I am from Shoreview, Minnesota, and I think loneliness in
general is very common for the younger generations, especially with
social media and the lack of accessibility to outdoor places that.
Speaker 7 (02:17):
Don't include athletics and things like that.
Speaker 8 (02:20):
I'm a named Belichia Beans from hunting to Meet, California.
I think that after the COVID nineteen pandemic, a lot
of in person third spaces.
Speaker 9 (02:31):
Just don't exist anymore.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Because of the Internet and everyone going online. It seems
really hard just to have the day to day chance
interactions with people.
Speaker 8 (02:41):
Hi, this is that coming from Colorado Springs. One of
the things that I think is contributing to the loneliest
epidemic is how much energy we all are putting into
the political climate every day. And so I think one
of the ways that civic leaders could address the loneliest
epidemic is by trying to cool the temperature.
Speaker 10 (03:01):
A little bit.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Well, thanks to everyone who called in, and you could
subscribe to our podcast The Middle wherever you get your
podcast to hear that entire episode. So now to our
question this hour, what do you think of ICE's tactics, Tolliver,
how can people reach us?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, you can call us at eight four four four
Middle that's eight four four four six four three three
five three, or you can write us at Listen to
the Middle dot com. You can also comment on our
live stream on YouTube. I'll say it again, listen to
the Middle dot com. We already have emails coming in.
Hit me with some morow I'll get you on air.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
And I was telling somebody earlier what the topic of
the show was. I want to make sure I pronounced
this properly. I'm not asking you about ISIS tactics like ISIS.
It's ice ic apostate important tactics. We're talking about immigration
joining us this hour. Doug Nichols, Republican mayor of you Arizona,
which is right on the Mexican border. Mayor Nichols, great
to have you back on the Middle.
Speaker 10 (03:49):
Thanks for having me back such a great time the
first time. I appreciate the second thought.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
We are grateful to have you and Mary Sanchez also
back with US Kansas City based journalists and colonists with
a Tribune content agency.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Mary, great to have you back as well.
Speaker 11 (04:01):
Great, thank you.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
All right, So before we get to the phones.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Maryor Nichols, as a Republican who was supportive of tougher
immigration policy, what do you think of the tactics being
used by ICE that we just talked about under President Trump?
Speaker 10 (04:14):
Well, you know, I think it's an interesting discussion point
because here in Yuma, where you would expect those tactics
to be in full use, they're not. We don't see
any of these massive ice raids, We don't have any
of those setups with the courts or anything like that.
(04:35):
So I'm having a hard time putting my arms around
some of it. I think some of it's probably a
little bit overblown by coverage. I think some of it
is for shock and awe to like have the the
new sheriff in town making sure that people know what
the approaches and the fact that we're pushing back on immigration.
(04:57):
So I think it's a mix of tactics besides what's
happening on the streets. But what's really the intention behind
the two or three different approaches to reporting on it
and what their effects really are.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I mean, do you think that you're not seeing it
there because you're in the same party as the president.
Although the governor of Arizona is a Democrat.
Speaker 10 (05:20):
And our two senators are Democrats. No, I think it's
it's more because I think those are the exceptions, not
the rules. As far as how the immigration arrests are happening,
I'm not saying they're not happening that way. I'm just
saying that I think that's not the standing operating procedure
for ICE. I think it's in the extremely large cities,
(05:41):
you have extremely large protests, you have extremely large groups
of individuals that all fall into the category that are
subject to the arrest orders. So I think that's it.
But I mean every country, every community in the United
States is an experiencing the ICE arrest.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Is the same the same, Mary, What are you seeing
in Kansas City? How is this playing out there?
Speaker 12 (06:07):
We're seeing everything that you described, but not at the
massive scale that you might in Los Angeles. What a
lot of people within the civil rights community really believes
that that's almost like a test place, largely by demographics,
but that some of those same tactics.
Speaker 11 (06:25):
I mean we have seen here.
Speaker 12 (06:26):
We have an immigration court, and up until probably about
a month month and a half ago, there were some
cases where they, you know, an immigrant would show up
ready to have their case heard.
Speaker 11 (06:39):
You know, totally illegal.
Speaker 12 (06:40):
They were doing what they were asked to do, and
the case was dismissed and then they were immediately taken
into custody. We're a regional area for the federal government,
so we have ice offices here, FBI, US Marshals, all
the letter agencies. But they've had court monitor watchers, people
who are train to just be there as a witness,
(07:02):
and that seems to have stopped that within our court
here in Kansas City. But we've had everything else too.
We've had massed agents, you know, a lot of different
sidings of different people in different areas. We have had
some smaller raids where like some restaurants were hit owned
by the same owner and both of the locations were
(07:26):
rated for lack of a better term and workers were
taken out in the early morning.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Mary Nichols, as we listened to Mary Sanchez describe what's
happening there, and we've heard, you know, anecdotal accounts all
around the country. It's quite clear that the crackdown is
going far beyond people who are violent criminals and gang members.
A lot of other people are who may have been
in this country for years are being snatched up.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
How do you feel about.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
That given that the president did run on a promise
of getting rid of the violent criminals and the gang
members at least first.
Speaker 10 (08:01):
All right, so, my discussions with our Bord patrol agents
that are actually HUMA agents that have been spread across
the country to help the ro efforts in that is,
you know, if they're going after one criminal migrant that
needs to be deported or go through a process and
they run into two or three that are also out
(08:22):
of immigration status and they get picked up, that's what
they're focused on. They do not have standing orders to
go after anybody. The people that they're looking to go
after are the ones that are are criminal. Now, however,
if there's a criminal member in a family and a
non criminal member in a family, but they're in the
same location during you know, interdiction or raid or whatever
(08:45):
you want to refer to them, then they get picked
up because they're also not of that. You know, they're
also in violation of the law even though they don't
have a criminal background.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Mary, how do the people that you speak with, as
the ordinary people in Cans the city feel about the
fact that that it's far beyond just criminals being targeted.
Speaker 12 (09:06):
I think it depends on how aware they are, frankly,
how much they understand about immigration law, which is incredibly complicated.
It's supposed to be the second most complicated form of
our government, second only to the tax code. So I
understand why people don't know about it.
Speaker 11 (09:25):
That's why I've been.
Speaker 12 (09:25):
Doing a lot of explanatory writing on different cases. I
think as people hear more and more, they're a little
bit mortified, partly because they don't understand. They're like, how
is it that someone could go to work in the
morning and literally see their place being rated. We had
one restaurant here where they left food cooking on the
(09:47):
stove when they haul people out of there and just
put a like it was on a legal pad, closed
taped to the door, And there was one worker who
was showing up for work and saw that and didn't
know what had happened.
Speaker 11 (10:02):
She hadn't heard yet.
Speaker 12 (10:04):
I think there's just a lot of fear and lack
of understanding. It kind of depends on who you are, though.
I mean, one of the things I'm really worried about
a lot of false narratives about latinos. I mean, eight
out of ten of us are US citizens. First of all,
some US citizens have been picked up though in some
of those kind of let's just scoop a wide net.
Speaker 11 (10:25):
So it causes.
Speaker 12 (10:26):
People to fear and question, and I think somewhat unders
get a grasp of that.
Speaker 11 (10:31):
They don't fully understand what's going on.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Do you see that fear at all among your constituents
in Yuma, Doug Nichols.
Speaker 10 (10:39):
You know, we're sixty to seventy percent Hispanic in our community,
and we don't really have that. Actually, during the last
previous four years, in the previous administration, when the swarms
of people were coming through our community, there was more
of an outrage about that than this have. I guess
(11:01):
you want to call them raids, But they're are nine checks.
We're making sure that people that are employed and the
employer's done the right check to make sure that they
can work. And those are resulting in like one or
two people at a time. So that doesn't really resonate
a whole lot of fear throughout our communities. So I
(11:21):
don't I'm not getting that from the community as a whole.
There are some people, and we do have some minor
protests that express those fears.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Okay, Tolliver, You know, one of the faces of the
Trump administration's crackdown has been Tom Homan, who was actually
appointed to a senior pedition positioned at ICE by President
Obama in twenty thirteen, and it served as President Trump's
borders are in the second term.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, and he's defended the deportation policies. Here he is
in an interview with CBS's Lilia Luciano.
Speaker 10 (11:50):
I think we're doing the right thing.
Speaker 13 (11:51):
This country safer because what we're doing, we're keeping our
promised to American people.
Speaker 7 (11:55):
Would you say that the strategy of arresting the worst
of the worst has shifted?
Speaker 13 (11:59):
No, will we go out and do these operations or
shovel going on right now across the country. We're targeting
public safety, trust, national security threasts. Now, I'll have you
on that. No one's off the table priorities. If you're
in the country legally, you're on the table.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
By the way, ICE has a goal of arresting three
thousand people today, but as of July that number was
closer to one thousand.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Well, I wonder where that is interesting.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Because it's hard to find that many people who are
especially violent criminals, but I guess it's hard to find
people who are just in the country without documentation as well,
that many per day.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
We'll be right back with more of your calls on
the Middle. This is the Middle.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning, in the Middle
is a national call in show. We're focused on elevating
voices from the middle geographically, politically, and philosophically, or maybe
you just want to meet in the Middle. This hour,
we're asking what you think about the tactics of immigration
and Customs enforcement also known as ICE under President Trump.
Tolliver the number again, please.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four sixty four three three five three. You can also
write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
I'm checking and I'm joined by Yuma Arizona mayor, Doug Nichols,
and Mary Sanchez, a columnist for the Tribute Content Agency.
And the phone lines are lighting up, So let's go
to Janine, who is in Minneapolis. Janine, go ahead with
your thoughts about the immigration tactics of the Trump administration.
Speaker 7 (13:26):
Hi, Yes, thank you for having me on. And my
thought is that I'm an independent voter, not really a Democrat,
not really a Republican, voted for both parties in my lifetime.
But what I'm seeing right now makes me not even
recognize America. I just think it's horrifying. It's like we
(13:47):
have lost our humanity. We're just turning into this cruel country.
And the thing that really bothers me is, you know,
when Trump was running, it was about getting the elite
people out. Okay, nobody's against making sure that people come
to the country legally, but it's been lost. Now it's
(14:08):
rounding a people. Now we have minimum numbers of people
that need to get rounded up. They are sent to
horrible places like Alligator Alcatraz. They're sent to countries that
they have no reason to be sent to, to terrible
facilities in those countries. And it's just horrifying to me.
I don't recognize America. It makes me very sad, and
(14:30):
I don't know what has happened to us. I don't
know where our humanity and our empaty has gone well.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
And Genine, let me just ask, are you seeing this personally?
Have you seen any of this directly or are you
seeing it in the news.
Speaker 7 (14:43):
I have seen it directly. I've seen it where they've
come through Minneapolis and they've gone into areas. I will say,
the folks in those areas bought back and really put
a stock to some of that. I give those people
a lot of credit. The other thing, you know, to
be honest, The other way that I just sort of
(15:05):
anecdotally see it is that when I go anywhere, if
you go to a restaurant, if you're in a hotel,
we always saw lots of Latin people, right, lots of
Mexican people working. They're not there anymore. I don't know
where they are, but I never see them anymore. They're
not around. I don't see them on the streets. I
don't see them in the grocery stores. They've sort of disappeared.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Janine, thank you so much for that call.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Mary Sanchez, How does that square with what you're you're
hearing about where you are and just the level of
fear I guess among Latinos, whether they're in the country
legally or not.
Speaker 12 (15:42):
It squares with it. I mean, you will hear those voices,
you know. I went to a grand opening of a
new El Mercado Fresco, and there were hundreds of people,
almost all Latino, that were there, but everyone said, well,
we feel like this is a safe place. Then I
also know of people who this one woman I can
think of, she owns a salon.
Speaker 11 (16:03):
She's legal.
Speaker 12 (16:04):
A lot of her clients are undocumented or their mixed
status family, some of their family members might be She
will close the door and lock it behind people just
for their comfort and.
Speaker 11 (16:20):
Sure, and a lot of this is based on just
a fear.
Speaker 12 (16:23):
There's the administration has said that they want people to
self deport you know, so part of the tactic is
fear intimidation.
Speaker 11 (16:34):
We're going to come for you. You don't know where
you're going to be picked up.
Speaker 12 (16:37):
We had some people here recently who were fishing, and
we're not quite sure who it was that came upon
them first, but asked about a fishing license, which they
didn't have. They're in deportation proceedings right now, or it's
technically called removal proceedings, and we don't know if it
was a ranger, if it was a county sheriff. You know,
other people have been driving. You roll through a stop
(16:59):
sign and that's how you're apprehended. Those are not the
violent criminals, by the government's own data some of the
most recent that's been crushed. It's about seven percent of
the people who have been arrested for removal. Only about
seven percent actually had a violent conviction, which I think
(17:20):
most people would be okay with if it's truly a
violent and they've served their time, you know, for the
victims so that they feel like they had justice. I
think most people would be okay with that type of.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Removal, right, Nichols.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
I mean you talked about the fear, you talked about
the the idea that this is about sort of like
you get something on TV and you're sort of scaring
people maybe into self deporting. Are you seeing people decide
that they are ready to just go back to their
country of origin because they're afraid where you are in Yuma.
Speaker 10 (17:55):
Well, actually, you could just see that by the numbers
trying across the border. You know, we were at fifteen
hundred people a day at peak people trying across the border.
Now we're at four.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, I think the almost nothing right.
Speaker 10 (18:09):
Clear, right, you know, and so it gives a sense
of security to the border.
Speaker 6 (18:14):
Now.
Speaker 10 (18:14):
I know my last name is not Hispanic, but my
wife's previous last name, her main name is. You know,
it's not like I'm removed from any of the culture
that is existence in my community. And people again were
more concerned about the fifteen hundred coming through with a
very very very limited vetting and just being released than
(18:39):
they are of at least in my community and what
I've been experiencing. At least from that perspective, then, you know,
people be getting picked up if they're not supposed to
be here, whatever their status is. Then that seems to
be the counter motion to where we were for the
last four years. So there is a sense of of
(19:00):
security for a lot of people in my region. So
I guess it's very regional.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Let's go to Lisa in Kansas City where Mary is. Lisa,
Welcome to the middle go ahead.
Speaker 14 (19:12):
I mean, I almost can't talk about it without crime.
I'm a lifetime messed around tour. I'm sixty years old
and I started early, you know, in my teens. Our industry,
of course, is employed many undocumented workers. They've also taken
(19:36):
me into their homes and I've known their families, and
I just I'm stunned. I'm stunned at the rack of
humanity and the fact that this administration puts every other
thing first, every single everything first.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
It's just.
Speaker 14 (20:00):
So this heart me. You know, I'm anything that I
don't want to study.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Have you seen any raise yourself in your in your restaurants?
Have you had to deal with that directly?
Speaker 8 (20:13):
I have not.
Speaker 14 (20:14):
And here's why I'm an independent contractor. I'm not. I
don't employ people. I do work in places all right
where people are employed. And and and I don't know
who is or who isn't, but I look around and
(20:35):
and I know that, you know, they're mixed households of people.
Some are and some are not documented and they're all
reading in fear. That's my issue, like invoking fear when
we already struggle with that as human beings to begin with.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Yeah, I'm yeah, Lisa. Thank you very much, joh for
calling in. I really appreciate it. And I'm going to
go to Tamaron, who's in Brigham City, Utah. Tamaron, go
ahead with your thoughts.
Speaker 15 (21:05):
I just live here in I mean, it's a growing
area here in Utah, and we're seeing a lot of
a lot of new folks come in. And I write
for the local paper here and one of the stories
I was recently assigned was to cover a family who
had taken over one of the fruit stands here, and
(21:26):
the family talked a little bit about being an immigrant
family coming from Mexico forty years ago and becoming a
part of this community over that, you know, forty years time.
And it was just something where where I had started
talking with some folks around me in the at the
paper and in my family, and just things that I
(21:47):
had started to see online and in person. You know,
I had very recently seen some ice officers at a
grocery store arresting a man. I have no no additional
knowledge on that, but it started to you know, just
oddly concerned me and maybe I shouldn't be talking about
immigrants anymore, that there's just a you know, angry rhetoric
(22:12):
that's that that's just come over things. I just got
real concerned about it and including it as part of
the story. And yet at the same time, you know,
it is still a part of their story. It's part
of America's story, right, It's we're all immigrants from other places,
you know.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Just worried that even just by reporting on it, that
it could it could hurt I guess immigrants who are
who are in the country, Tameron, thank you very much
for that, called Doug Nichols. I mean, we're hearing a
theme here from different people in different places that they
are they're upset about sort of the fear that's being
instilled in places around the country.
Speaker 10 (22:50):
Sure, and I think that. I think what the last
caller kind of hinted at was the uh, the rhetoric
of fear and hate, and I think that is something
that needs to get removed from the discussion. I think
it's used on both sides of the topic to to
generate sympathy, to generate narrative. You know, at the end
(23:10):
of the day, what we're talking about are people who
broke the law generally, you know, arrests or not. I
don't care what you're being arrested for. It's not the
best day of your life, right, I mean, they're they're
they're aggressive, You're being taken a place you don't want
to go. I mean, I don't think that's unusual, whether
you're being arrested for as an American citizen for something
(23:34):
you did to break a law here or someone that's
come from another country. I don't think that process is
ever going to look Disney esque but you know, at
the end of the day, there there were millions of
people let into this country, and I think that's what
we're trying to do, is trying to get things rebalanced
out and the.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Do you think that the only way to do that though,
is to have like people be afraid, to have agents
wearing masks, to have people be sent to really bad prisons,
not just regular prisons, but like surrounded by alligators or
in El Salvador, where you know, you.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Is the only way for the Trump administration to accomplish
its goal of dealing with illegal immigration to have these
kinds of taxes and scare people.
Speaker 10 (24:21):
So you know, I'm not inside operations. I don't know
what their other chances are of doing different methods, but
I do know for the last four years, they had
two tents set up here in Yuma for eight hundred
people a piece to weather through the winter, the summer,
through the whole process of coming into the country. And
(24:43):
that's if they didn't die in the desert. We had
fifty people a year die in the desert trying to
get through here. Numerous stories of rape and just horrific
things that people are telling come across the border. So,
I mean, what we're talking about is a bad situation
from beginning to end. And I think what we could
(25:04):
really be focused on is not perpetuating the hate on
either side. I mean doxing federal law enforcement agents requiring
them to have the mask up so they don't get
docksed is a problem too. I mean that's not something
that we should be doing as Americans either. So I
don't have the answer. I don't know that there's a
(25:26):
softer and nicer way to get this done. However, there
was definitely part of the election process was the Americans
wanted to see a different motion, a different process than
what was being done in the previous.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Four tolliver what is coming in Online?
Speaker 10 (25:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
David in Minneapolis says Trump's immigration policy has little to
do with immigration and everything to do with attacking and
intimidating blue states and areas period. And then Greg and
Boise says, masked, unidentified armed men kidnapping people off the
street is illegal. It's meant to distract from the fact
that Trump's policies are a disaster for the economy. It's
also meant to cause unrest. So Trump can declare martial law,
(26:06):
cancel the elections in twenty twenty six, and keep himself
in power and an area I kind.
Speaker 10 (26:11):
Of wanted to ask you about that.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Do you think that this is part of a larger
strategy from the Trump administration.
Speaker 12 (26:18):
Read Project twenty twenty five. I mean, yes, there are
some larger strategies. I don't know that he's always orchestrating
all of it, but there is this essence and move
towards more authoritarian, more taking over and taking people's basic
civil rights. I mean, it's really a civil violation and
(26:41):
immigration status. It's not a criminal illegal act. Even our
immigration courts, they're not criminal, they're not civil, they're administrative.
I mean most people don't even understand that. So that's
part of the whole verbiage there is, you know, to
the mayor's point. I mean, one of the big things
that people are looking at, and it's in fear of
(27:01):
that extremes, is civil rights leaders across the country and
in Kansas City as well, are already talking about just
the need to train and grind into nonviolence, nonviolent protests
because after October you're going to have more armed guards.
(27:21):
They're sending in more of our National Guard troops everywhere.
They're not trained in de escalation all it takes.
Speaker 11 (27:29):
And we've already had some issues here.
Speaker 12 (27:30):
I've written on this where frankly, people screaming about fascists
and Nazis and all this, and that can really screw
up something that's occurring.
Speaker 11 (27:42):
Or it is so easy to escalate things.
Speaker 12 (27:45):
And if you're supposed to be a silent witness who
is documenting, you cannot be doing that. Number One, that
tape cannot be used in some of these federal court
cases that are challenging the tactics. There's you know, there's
a lot going on all at once. There there is
this huge need to train people so that they can
(28:07):
take that passion and you know, implement it in a
way that actually can help us bring us back to
where we want to be as a country.
Speaker 11 (28:16):
And like the mayor was saying.
Speaker 12 (28:17):
To do it the right way and that you can
change the laws, you can manage this. You don't have
to be grabbing people off the streets. There are ways
to do immigration that would not involve fear, hatred, stereotyping,
all of that.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
I want to get the mayor's thoughts on that right
after this break. But Tolliver, if you look at the
poll numbers, Republicans are still in favor of the tactics
being used by ICE, Democrats and independents believe they've gone
too far.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, but the king of podcasting, Joe Rogan after you.
Of course, Jeremy, who supported Trump's reelection, had some choice
words for ICE operations in an episode of his show
back in June.
Speaker 16 (28:59):
Ice Raiser nuts man. I don't think if they the
Trump administration, if they're running and they said we're going
to go to home depot and we're going to arrest
all the people at home depot, We're going to go
to construction sites and we're going to just like tackle
people with constructions. I don't think anybody would signed up
for that. They said we're going to get rid of
the criminals and the gang members first, right, and now
(29:19):
we're we're seeing like home depots get raided.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Like that's crazy, Telliver, I think I make one two
hundred and fifty millionth.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Of the salary of Joe Rogan, by the way, close enough,
and let's just.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Let get that out there. We'll be right back with
more of the middle. This is the middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson.
This hour, we're asking how you feel about the tactics
of ICE under President Trump. You can call us at
eight four four four Middle that's eight four four four
six four three three five three.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
You can also reach out at Listen to the Middle
dot com.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
I'm joined by Kansas City based columnist Mary Sanchez with
Tribune Content Agency, and you met Arizona Mayor Doug Nichols,
a Republican. And joining us now on the phone from
Chapel Hill, North Carolina, is Tom.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Tom, go ahead with your thoughts about ICE's tactics.
Speaker 9 (30:08):
Hey, well, yeah, I mean a lot of what people
have said already I agree with you know, the mask
is unreasonable, approaching authoritarianism. But the one thing that nobody
has talked about so far is the fact that a
lot of people in this country without papers are here
to claim asylum political asylum, and what one thing they
(30:32):
should be doing is fixing the court system. You know,
they're understaff, they're overworked, there's not enough judges to process
these cases. That needs to be fixed. And if you
if you approach immigration from the way our laws have
been set up, I think that that's going to solve
(30:53):
a lot of the problems. I think that the Trump
administration's approach is one of fear, as other people said,
and also playing to his base. You know, he promised
to deport I don't remember how many millions it was
of people, but I don't think people understand what impact
(31:14):
that would really have on the economy if they did
deport fifteen million people or whatever it was. You know,
there's there's I mean, I could go on and on.
Speaker 10 (31:23):
I don't want to.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
You've brought up here, You've brought up some good points,
So let me let me take those to our guests.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Mayor Nichols a lot in there.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
First of all, are you worried about the economic impact
of deporting as many people as the Trump administration is
going to deport?
Speaker 10 (31:38):
Well, so locally now, you know, as I mentioned, when
they do an I nine engagement whatever however you want
to refer to, that, that opportunity where they're only walking
away with one or two people at a time. Uh,
the community here we produced ninety percent of the leafy
greens that United States and Canada consume every winner. So
(32:02):
if you've eading a salad during the summer, it's come
from Yuma. But the farmers who hire all the labor
do not want labor that is not documented. They want
only documented labor. So we're not going to see that
impact here in our community. Are we going to see
it in New York or in la I can't speak
to that, but here locally, those are things that we've
(32:25):
looked into. I've talked to our major employers. They're not
anticipating any lack of workforce to that's going to affect
how we produce our economy here in Yuma.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Let's go to Nova, who is in New London, Connecticut. Nova,
go ahead with your thoughts.
Speaker 5 (32:45):
I'm younger compared to most of the people responding to this.
I'm only twenty, and honestly, I am scared. You wouldn't
think in backwater Connecticut there would be a fear for this,
but there is. The most I'd heard about immigration before
it became such a large political standpoint was a raid
(33:09):
that happened eight years prior, and people talked about it
as if it was a marvel or something that definitely
didn't happen often. And the way I interpe of it
as well was like, not something to be scared of.
But I am scared, and I feel deceived by the
(33:30):
Trump administration. If anything, what they're promising is not what
they're doing, especially hearing all the news stories about citizens
being deported as well, children, babies, not just criminals.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Have you seen with your own eyes any of the
things we're talking about or is it mostly what you're
seeing and reading in the news.
Speaker 5 (33:52):
Mostly what I'm seeing and reading in the news, but
also local news. I have heard of ice raids and
people getting pulled over over for flags, even bumper stickers
on flags as bumper stickers. I've seen stories of local
people Hartford, New London, people fighting back. There's a huge
movement here for know your Rights pamphlets and don't open
(34:15):
the doors.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Nov Thank you for calling, and also love to have
a twenty year old that we have one in every
show at least, I appreciate your call. By the way,
next week we're going to be talking about the challenges
of Generation Z, so tune in for that one as well.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
But thank you for that. Mary Sanchez.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
You know we're again we're hearing from people around the
country who are really feeling that fear. I don't want
to just ask the same question over and over again,
but this seems like this is the theme.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Do you think that this is.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Going to play out among voters as we get into
the midterm elections next year.
Speaker 12 (34:48):
If redistricting early doesn't change some of that in some areas,
that's a whole other show you can do.
Speaker 11 (34:56):
I do think it will, and partly because people.
Speaker 12 (34:58):
They sense that they know, I know that there's something
intrinsically unfair about a lot of these tactics, even if
they don't understand or somehow have dismissed that even someone
with an undocumented status has legal rights.
Speaker 11 (35:14):
You have legal rights in this country. They just know
that it's wrong.
Speaker 12 (35:19):
The other thing is, I think she did mention or
several people have the idea of mixed status families, and
I think people kind of that's one part of immigration
that they grasp that, you know. I mean, one of
the things is I'm thinking statistics like more than eight
percent of all children in the US live in a
household with at least one undocumented member. Now they're starting
(35:42):
to work on some of these studies now about what
would be the impact if you removed x percentage of
the undocumented population with right now we think is about
fourteen million people, which is high. It's higher than it's
a higher percentage per capita than.
Speaker 11 (35:58):
It's been in Deck Gates.
Speaker 12 (36:00):
So, I mean people are reacting to something that's very real,
and I think you need to like honor that that's
a truth, but it's what you do and how you
manage it. And I think what people are understanding is
that these literally are your neighbors, and it's a mixed
status family. It may be a child who's a US citizen,
(36:20):
but it might be their parent. Do you want that
parent remove from the home? And what does that do
to the child? What does that do to a school system?
You know, what are we disrupting here long term in
terms of our economy, mental health, communities.
Speaker 11 (36:37):
There's just it's a.
Speaker 12 (36:38):
Really wide net that's being cast in terms of what
the impacts can be, and they're not positive.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Mary Nichols, let me ask you.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
You mentioned that illegal immigration has dropped down significantly. What
do you say, four people as opposed to fifteen hundred
a year ago. It's down overall more than ninety percent
in July compared with last year. Is there a point
you see at which the emergency that Trump declared that
led to all this aggressive immigration enforcement comes to an end?
Speaker 10 (37:11):
Definitely. I think there would would be a natural opportunity
to make that happen. I don't know what that number is.
I know the fourteen million that Mary referred to, there
was a large percentage of that are recent within the
last four or five years, and so I think that's
probably the target area is to try to you know,
reset that because when those people showed up in our communities,
(37:35):
that disrupted our schools, that disrupted a lot of things too.
So I mean there's a disruption in the whole the
whole process. But I'd like to just kind of tag
on to what Mary talked about, and that is elections
in Arizona, we redistrict, redistricted right after the census. We
do it a lot earlier than most and so that's
(37:56):
that landscape is not going to change for us. But
if the effort and the energy is put forward by
the community, members need to be focused towards that. Because
everything that has happened since the eighties and nineties in
immigration falls under the law, the same immigration law. It's
the policy that changes from administration to administration. So when
(38:18):
Obama declared, you know, we're going to make sure that
the dreamers have an opportunity to get things right. Well
that was quite a while ago, right, how many of
them have so if they're end up in a situation now, well,
it's not like it was just yesterday that that was
mentioned that you know, Okay, we've got a situation, let's
(38:39):
put a pause button on deportations. But it wasn't a
forever pause. It was something to get fixed. So, I mean,
I think there is a lot of complexity when you
start talking immigration and you just say there's a specific number.
I don't know that you could, but definitely this would
definitely have to come to an end at some point.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Jennifer is calling from Pomona Park, Florida. Hi, Jennifer, Welcome
to the middle Go ahead.
Speaker 17 (39:04):
Hi.
Speaker 18 (39:05):
Yeah, I'm really really upset and experiencing something quite different
from your gentlemen from Arizona. My community is sixty five
percent Hispanic, and I just looked up.
Speaker 17 (39:19):
The date of it.
Speaker 18 (39:19):
On May tenth thereabouts, Ice came through and with in
cooperation with the States troopers and our local law enforcement
and terrorized our schools. We have two schools. We have
an elementary and a high school, junior senior high school,
(39:40):
and they were harassing parents in the drop offline. They
were buzzing both schools with helicopters and basically just terrorizing
and harassing my neighbors and my friends in this community.
They for all of the money spent and the upset
(40:00):
it caused in our community. They found two undocumented people,
and it just is outrageous as expensive, and it's unnecessary.
We have some real problems in this country and we
could be using that effort and money to address our
(40:21):
genuine problems and not harassing these people that are just
working and raising their family.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Jennifer, thank you very much for that call. Mary Sanchez.
You know, that is an interesting point about the different problems.
There's clearly a disagreement in this country about how much
of a problem illegal immigration is.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
I think you've muted yourself.
Speaker 11 (40:46):
Can you still hear me?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah? No, now you're back.
Speaker 11 (40:48):
Okay, Okay, great. I don't know what happened there, but
I'm back.
Speaker 12 (40:53):
You know, your caller was pointing out something I think
it used to be called the Morton memo.
Speaker 11 (40:59):
And you talk about changing policy. It used to be.
Speaker 12 (41:02):
That churches, schools, and hospitals were off limits. Those weren't
places that ice and previously I ins ever went to.
Speaker 11 (41:15):
They were just considered almost sacred spaces.
Speaker 12 (41:18):
You know, it's a place that you disrupt for this
type of you know, you know, take apprehension for lack
of a better word. That was part of the policy
change under the administration was oh no, no, anywhere's fair game.
Will you put the fear into a school system? I mean,
(41:39):
we have school districts here. That's a Supreme Court law.
It's Pliler versus Doves from nineteen eighty two that no
matter what a child's immigration status is, they are they
are allowed to have a K through twelve education. Now,
the Dreamers, that was for someone who was older, and
we never passed that legislation to give them the rights
(42:02):
of illegal status. We never fixed it for them. It's
just this temporary, same thing for DACA. But those sorts
of changes are what's causing people a lot of you know,
apprehension and fear and the pushback that I think you
might see at elections, especially when you start messing with
people's kids. That's when people start to fight back.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Let me go to another caller, David Is in Denver, Colorado. David,
what are your thoughts about ices tactics?
Speaker 17 (42:32):
Well, I just wanted to say Jeremy and thanks for
taking my call. I am a veteran, a former military
police officer. I've worked with federal law enforcement. This isn't
the way we do business. I also have a wife
who's a thirty year immigrant who's in status, probably seven
years left on our green cart status. We know two people,
one from Great Britain and one from Australia who were
(42:56):
picked up and put in attention, not directly sent back
to their country of origin. It seems tunitive. I'm also
curious about what happened. As a former law enforcement officer,
what happens when they show up at an American citizen's house,
which they've done before by mistake, try to take them
into custody. They're wearing a mask, they don't identify themselves,
(43:17):
and it's a stand by ground state, and one of
these officers get shot. God forbid what happens. Then we
have a real problem. And I think that your former guest,
who identified himself as a Republican, who said that you
know that it's always a bad day when you get
arrested and that this is not disney esque, is not
being completely truthful. We know that Stephen Miller, the assistant
(43:42):
chief of staff, is set of three thousand person to
day quota. You can't do that by getting the worst
of the worst. Stephen Miller's made it clear he wants
every immigrant and what he calls homegrowns gone as well,
and as a freelance writer as well, I've watched hours
of video of them swooping in on da daycare centers
(44:02):
and elementary schools and traumatizing children. This is not the
way we do business as law enforcement in this country.
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Thank you for that call it yes, and thank you
for your service as well, David, And I'm going to
let the mayor respond to what you said there.
Speaker 10 (44:20):
Well, I mean, even back to the previous caller with
the schools. We have a county of two hundred and
twenty thousand people, so we have quite a few schools.
That's never happened here. So I don't know what the
difference is between here and anywhere else in the country,
but we're not seeing that. We're not seeing daycares being
rated or stocked out, and none of that is happening here.
(44:45):
But again, it's one of those things that we do
need to make sure is done right. It's my understanding,
and I've not witnessed any of these grades where people
are masked, but they're still badged as what agency they're with,
So there should still be ability for however you want
(45:06):
to say, at reparations, to make sure those things get fixed.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
So you're okay, You're okay with the masks as long
as they have a badged and they can identify themselves officially.
Speaker 10 (45:14):
Correct. I think that's understandable given the fact that people's
have ideas have been then put online with their home addresses,
and their families have been threatened, and their kids have
been threatened, and they've been stocked. That's not what we
want for a law enforcement officers either. I mean, they
are Americans. They're doing a job the same They're falling
directions like they did in the previous administration where they
(45:37):
just passed people through through the border without worrying about
what their backgrounds are. So I mean, they're doing their job.
So let's not make their lives at danger. Let's show
up at the polls change things the way people want
them to be changed. That's where the energy I think
is best placed. Regardless of what your political position is.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Let me just ask you one other question, Mayor, which
is you know, we've heard people upset about the massed agents.
Somebody brought up the national guard in cities. We've seen
also investigations into political foes by the Trump administration, and
to some of our listeners and to some people in
this country, it's starting to look like authoritarianism.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
We've heard that before.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
As a Republican, do you think it does or when
you hear people say that, you go, oh, come on, relax.
Speaker 10 (46:24):
Well, I think, for instance, the investigations into political foes,
that's not this administration's first. I mean other administrations have
done the same thing, including the last one. So I
think we need to kind of take that paranoia out
of the way. But the as far as the other elements,
I think we need to always step back and take
(46:46):
a look at it. I'm trying to remember your example
or what your specific.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
National guard in the cities and masked agents and stuff
like that.
Speaker 10 (46:53):
Right, So, national guard generally is crowd control. They're not
the ones generally kicking the door down. Usually that's the
feral agents, those that are trained in actual hands on
opportunity because they have to. They're there for crowd control.
They don't have the ability to engage as far as armed.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
So you're not You're not worried about authoritarianism, is what
you're saying.
Speaker 10 (47:17):
You know, you always have to keep it in check,
and that's what elections are for. And if and if
any administration tries to get rid of an election cycle,
I think you're going to see it up people in
this country like never before.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
That is the Republican Mayor of Few may Arizona, Doug Nichols.
We've also been speaking with Mary Sanchez, a colmnists with
Tribute Content Agency.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Thanks so much to both of you for joining us.
Speaker 10 (47:36):
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
And don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. There's extra
episodes of our One Thing Trump Did podcast every week
on the Middle podcast feed. Next week we'll be right
back here talking about the issues that Generation Z faces,
the challenges. So if you are one of our many
gen Z listeners, please call.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
As a member of gen Z.
Speaker 10 (47:55):
I'm very excited. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
Our number is eight four four four Middle that's eight
four four four six four three three five three, Or
you can reach out a Listen to the Middle ck
miss Lip listen to them Middle dot com, where you
can also sign up for our free weekly newsletter.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
The Middle is brought to you by Longnok Media, distributed
by Illinois Public Media in Urbana, Illinois, and produced by
Harrison Patino, Danny Alexander Sanburmstas, John Barthonic Codestler, Brandon Condricks,
and Steve Mork. I'm Jeremy Hobson, and I will talk
to you next week
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Jeremy Hobson
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