October 10, 2025 • 49 mins
On this episode of The Middle, we're asking how the ongoing government shutdown affects you. Jeremy is joined by journalist and author Ray Suarez, host of the new PBS series Wisdom Keepers, and former CNN chief political correspondent Candy Crowley. DJ Tolliver joins as well, plus calls from around the country. #shutdown #government #congress #democrat #republican #MikeJohnson #ChuckShumer #Trump
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Support for the Middle comes from the stations that air
the show and from you. Thanks for making a donation
at Listen Toothmiddle dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson, and while the
federal government may be shut down, we are still very
much here, even our DJ Tolliver, who is apparently an
essential employee.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Tolliver, Oh, I bet you say that to all the DJs.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, exactly, although also it should point out public radio
doesn't get any federal funding anymore, so we wouldn't be
included in a government shutdown anyway. Maybe that's too soon,
but this is the at least eleventh government shutdown since
nineteen eighty The longest ever was thirty five days during
the first Trump administration. Some of the big things the
government pays for, like Social Security and Medicare, are unaffected,
(00:47):
but many other areas of spending are, and hundreds of
thousands of federal workers are either working without being paid
or not working at all. It is not a sustainable
way to run a business or a government. And we're
gonna get the why with our guests in a moment,
but from you, we want to know the what. What
does the government shut down mean for you. Are you
one of the federal workers who's been laid off? Are
(01:09):
you worried about whether you'll be able to get your
snap benefits? Have you been stranded at an airport or
unable to take a trip to a national park. We
want to hear from you at eight four four four
middle that's eight four four four six four three three
five three, or you can write to us at listen
toothemiddle dot com. But first, last week on the show,
we asked what you thought of President Trump's use of
(01:29):
the National Guard in cities around the country. Here are
some of the voicemails we got.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Hello, my name is Ben, calling from Michigan, and calling
in the National Guard to police our cities is like
calling in a.
Speaker 5 (01:44):
Hammer when not everything is a nail that needs to
be driven in.
Speaker 6 (01:49):
Hi, my name is Evan Corlis. I'm calling from southern
New Hampshire. It kind of seems odd that we have
deployments that aren't really doing much of anything. And if
the purposes to quote unquote clear the streets or reduced crime,
why isn't any of that direct action happening.
Speaker 7 (02:07):
My name is Joan and calling from California. What do
I think about the National Guard being used in our
own country the way it's being used. Well, as far
as I can tell, it's nothing about a threat from
our president. He's threatening all of us, and that ain't cool.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Man, That ain't cool. Tolliver. Thanks everyone called in. You
can hear that full show by subscribing to the Middle
wherever you listen to podcasts. So our question this hour,
how does the government shutdown affect you? Tolliver? How can
people reach us?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
You can call us at eight four four four a
Middle that's eight four four four six four three three
five three, or you can write to us or me
at listen to the Middle dot com. I'm checking all
your emails, or comment on our live stream on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Joining us this hour Journalist and author Ray Suarez, host
of the new series Wisdom Keepers on PBS. Ray, great
to have you back on the show.
Speaker 8 (02:56):
Great to be invited.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Thanks, and former CNN Chief political correspondent Candy Crowley is
with us as well. Candy, great to have you back
as well.
Speaker 9 (03:04):
Oh, thanks for having me.
Speaker 10 (03:06):
Well.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
So before we get to the phones, you've both seen
many government shutdowns throughout your career, Candy, I'll start with you,
is there anything different about this one.
Speaker 9 (03:17):
I think the lack of urgency has struck me more
than anything. Now. You know, before I was kind of
in the middle of it, you know, when you're covering
Capitol Hill. I can't believe I've been through eleven of
them or tend them anyway. And there just doesn't seem
to be any kind of pressure at this moment. And
there's also sort of all these outside things happening. I
(03:38):
was struck tonight that most of the evening news is
all of the cables that got around to the government
shutdown about halfway through the show.
Speaker 7 (03:46):
So there's no.
Speaker 9 (03:48):
There just doesn't seem to be an urgency to it
at this moment.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Well and Ray, the other thing that struck me is
that the central issue right now in the negotiations seems
to be healthcare. Democrats want these Obamacare subsidies that are
about to expire to be extended. If that doesn't happen,
there are millions of Americans who will see huge spike
in their insurance premiums. Does that mean that at its core,
this shutdown is just another fight over Obamacare, which has
(04:15):
been litigated so many times over the years.
Speaker 8 (04:19):
Yeah, but it's true. But It's a funny kind of
fight over Obamacare because right now the Democrats are saving
the Republicans from the full bite of what that Republican
cutback would mean if it was allowed to take effect.
And yet it's not clear that the Democrats are going
(04:41):
to get any credit for that, not so far anyway.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
But you think based on the way that you say that,
you think that they will actually extend the subsidies for
Obamacare at the end.
Speaker 8 (04:52):
Of the day, it's not at all clear that that
will be the eventual outcome.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
And you know, the.
Speaker 8 (05:00):
Current speaker, it seems to be holding the line against
the man who thinks he's the future speaker. It's hard
to see how anybody comes out a winner, including the
voters on this.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
One and Candy. President Trump has said that because of
the shutdown, he wants to permanently lay off federal workers,
close down programs that Democrats like. He's already frozen funding
for some infrastructure projects in states like California, New York
and Illinois. Can he really do that? Have you seen
that happen in a shutdown before?
Speaker 9 (05:32):
I have not seen that in a shutdown before. In fact,
I think that he cannot use it as an excuse
to get rid of entire programs or even to fire
people who are quote, the non essential. So the people
who are sitting at home waiting for this to end
so they can go back to work. So no, I
don't think he can, but I think it's at the
(05:52):
moment it seems like a bargaining thing. Well, I'm just
going to get rid of all your programs, and to
which the Democrats reply, why is that new? That's what
he's been doing since January, So this is just dozed
by any other name. Is still you know, cutting people
out of jobs, But at the moment, we haven't seen it,
and it's been more seems to me, it has been
more of a wedge to try to get Democrats to
(06:17):
move on this, saying Okay, I'll just fire people.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Ray. What kind of leverage do you think that Democrats
have right now?
Speaker 8 (06:24):
Well, it's long been said in Washington that if the
other party holds the trifecta the House, the Senate, and
the Oval Office, all you have is negative power, the
power to make things not happen. And that's what the
Democrats are using right now. It's sometimes a risky maneuver,
but it's all they've got. They can't make anything happen
(06:47):
that they want to happen, So all they can do
right now is dig in their heels, try to message
that they're doing it on behalf of people who are
going to be hurt by Republican spending plans if they
go into effect, and see what happens.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Candy, if we zoom out for a moment here, you
mentioned that there are so many other huge stories going
on in the news today, not least of which is
a potential peace deal in the Middle East. What are
these recurring shutdowns, not just this one, but all of
them that we've had in recent years due to America's
credibility economically and otherwise, especially when you have a president
(07:25):
who touts his negotiating ability and now we're in a stalemate.
Speaker 9 (07:30):
Right, And what does it do to Americans trust in
their government to get anything done? I mean, when you've
got you know, I think one of the Democrat talking
points is listen, they're in charge of everything, so they're responsible, right,
And that seemed to have some residents. As far as
I can see, We're far from done with this, so
who knows how it'll all shake down. But the truth
(07:51):
is that in the end, nobody I think you know,
Ray said it right. In the end, nobody wins this thing.
And again it hasn't it hasn't begun to hurt to
the extent that has filtered up to Congress or to
the President. And I think it it certainly doesn't help.
(08:11):
It just looks like chaos. You're sitting over in you know,
Italy or you know wherever, watching yet another you know,
you see troops on the streets, and you see people,
you know, protesting on the streets, and then all of
a sudden, the government's not working and you know half
the irs is off, which you know most people doesn't
sound bad, but so you know, it just adds to
(08:33):
the kind of chaos that doesn't help markets, it doesn't
help American people, and it certainly looks bad from the
overseas perspective.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
A reminder that you can reach us at eight four
four four middle that's eight four four four six four
three three five three. I just want to sneak in
a call here before we take a quick break. Kelly
and Eugene Oregon is joining us. Kelly, how's the government
of shuts down affecting you?
Speaker 11 (08:59):
Well?
Speaker 12 (09:00):
Affects me? Two different ways. There's my business and we
provide services to a lot of the government community, and
we're not able to get paid now with them being furloughed.
So therefore that leaves a huge gap for all of
(09:20):
the independent contractors that I have that work with me
with these vendors. And then on a personal note, I
have so many people in my circle that now cannot work.
They are not receiving a paycheck, and therefore they're concerned
about if they have no money coming in by the
(09:41):
end of this month, what is that going to do
for their home payment, for car payment, most importantly their children,
how are they going to eat? And so it's a
really sad state of you know, besides worrying about the
obvious that we have with the current administration of affecting Oregon,
it's really sad for this now to be going on
(10:05):
on top of all the rest of it.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And how long do you think it's going to go on?
Speaker 12 (10:12):
Well, unfortunately, despite the lies that are being put out there,
the Republicans do run both the House and the Senate,
and from what I've seen and what I've read and heard,
unless things are brought to the table the way that
they want it. We could be looking at this Unfortunately,
(10:36):
I don't. I wouldn't be surprised if they took it
through to the holidays. I really wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Kelly, thank you for that call.
Speaker 12 (10:44):
Not concerned.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, I think we've got the point, Kelly, Thank you
so much. Race war is what do you think, just briefly,
I mean, could it go that long to the holidays?
Speaker 8 (10:56):
It could? Uh, that would make it one of the
longest shutdowns, if not the longest, in the annals of
this thing happening in recent decades.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Candy, I don't know.
Speaker 8 (11:09):
You'd have to check me on this, but I think
that would make it the longest.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, it would be served. Five days was the longest
before that. Yeah, yeah, Tulliver. By the way, President Trump
has laid the blame at the feet of Democratic lawmakers,
but he had a much different take before he was
president of the United States.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yeah, he was actually very vocal about who's at fault
for a government shut down. Here he is in an
interview back in twenty eleven during the Obama administration, talking
with Today host Meredith Vieira.
Speaker 13 (11:36):
In my opinion, you know, I hear the Democrats are
going to be blamed and.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
The Republicans are going to be blamed.
Speaker 13 (11:41):
I actually think the president would be blamed if there
is a shutdown, and it's not going to be a
horrible shutdown because as you know, things will sort of keep.
Speaker 9 (11:49):
Well, it's a partial shutdown, right.
Speaker 13 (11:51):
If there is a shutdown, I think it would be
a tremendously negative mark on the president of the United States.
He's the one that has to get people together.
Speaker 9 (11:58):
How's he going to corral a So how would you
do it now? Now you're in the Oval office right now.
Speaker 13 (12:03):
I would get to every buddy together and we'd have
a budget.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
And they've all gotten together.
Speaker 13 (12:08):
Well, that's because they don't have the right leader.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
The right leader that was then, Tolliver, that was then,
Now he alls that leader. So we'll have your calls
coming up on the Middle. This is the Middle. I'm
Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning in the Middle as
a national call in show, we're focused on elevating voices
from the middle geographically, politically, philosophically, or maybe you just
want to meet in the middle. This hour, we're asking
(12:31):
you how the government shutdown is affecting you. Tolliver, what
is the number to call in.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four sixty four three three five three. You can also
write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com.
I'm checking all your emails, so get him in, or
you can hit us up on social media.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I'm joined by former CNN Chief political correspondent Candy Crowley
and journalists and author Ray Suarez. Let's go back to
the phones and Joan, who is in Ridgecrest, California. Joan,
how's the shut down effected.
Speaker 14 (13:04):
Well, it's not affected me directly this time, but I
think that people don't understand exactly how the shutdown works.
And as we get to furlough's. My husband was part
of the Department of Defense. Last time we went through
shutdowns in we lost paychecks. And now Trump is, you know,
(13:27):
saying if we go into furlough or shut down for
too long, then people are going to start getting fired. Well,
I don't see how.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
I don't see how.
Speaker 14 (13:38):
This problem that is being caused by people in our
Congress that can't get together and figure this out, which
is by the way, Democrats are Republicans. They can't figure
this out. They get they get a vacation and they're paid,
they come back and they don't do their job, and
they're paid, and all these people are at risk. I
(14:02):
don't understand how this is.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Okay, yeah, Joan, thank you for that call. Candy Crowley.
It is interesting. It would probably light a fire under
Congress if they didn't get paid during a shutdown.
Speaker 9 (14:14):
It's it's always to be kind of amazing because there
are all these people who generally I don't I don't
recall a time when they didn't get back pay. So,
but that doesn't help when the ranters do now. It
doesn't help when your credit card bill comes in and
they're just adding more and more fees to it. So
(14:37):
but the fact of the matter is, it's to me
would be embarrassing as a congress person to be sitting
at home. There's, as far as I can see, no
upper negotiations going on with the people that can actually
make a difference. Doesn't seem to be any kind of
conversation other than through the TV with talking points, and
(14:58):
they're all hanging out and getting their paychecks. It's a
bad look. It's why I think in the end, this
might be a wash in terms of who they blame.
I think that the caller hinted at it, which is,
you know, in the end and up here in an
area that I think is largely Republican, I know is
largely Republican. Ra I am now in Upper Michigan. It's
(15:21):
a pox on both their houses, right, they're mad at everybody.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah, you know, Ray. The other thing that we heard
from Joan there was that, you know, she was expecting
that people would get paid at the end of the day.
But Trump did float the other day that maybe they
won't pay certain people at the end of the shutdown.
I don't know if they will.
Speaker 8 (15:41):
Actually talking about you with that only some people being
guaranteed their back pay and being backed up by his
own budget director and head of OMB. So this may
be different this time around if they try, I think
the politically risky move of not giving federal employees back pay.
(16:05):
You know, there's this fantasy that all of them live
right here in Washington, DC, But in fact, the tens
of thousands of people who work for the federal government
are scattered across the country. And yes they're concentrated here
in the Capitol, but even here in this region, the
(16:25):
contagion could spread. Mark Zandi, economist at Moody's analytics identified
all four of the states around here as being either
in recession or on the verge of recession Maryland, Virginia, Delaware,
and West Virginia, all of which have links to the
DC economy. So I don't know, could be a roll
(16:46):
of the dice. You've got Winsome Earl Sears trying to
win a governor's race in Virginia. It could be tough
for her if thousands of Virginians who work for the
federal government are not getting paid because of a publican
president and the machinations of Russell Vote, one of the
Father's intellectual godfathers of Project twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Right, And actually outside of the Washington, DC area, two
of the other states that have the highest number of
federal workers are California and Texas, one big blue state,
one big red state. So it really does affect people
all across the country. Let's go to doctor Yolanda, who's
calling from Kansas City, Kansas. Welcome to the middle. How's
(17:30):
the government shutdown affecting you?
Speaker 15 (17:32):
Well?
Speaker 16 (17:32):
Thank you well. I work in the county in wind
Dot County, which has healthcare statistics civil to Alabamas. Okay,
and base. It's the health and I work in the
health Manpower Person Shortage Area, Nampawa Shortage Area, and thirty
percent of my patients have Medicaid. Thirty percent of my
patients have Medicare, twenty percent probably on Obamacare, and the
(17:54):
others are either self pay or have insurance from their jobs. Okay,
and it will affect my patients. I mean if if
my patients can't get care, because you know, the request
is that they continue the Obamacare and then and then
open up the government. I think that that's a legitimate request.
I don't think that it's a little thing, you know,
(18:16):
And and it's very sad that they're making it a
political thing. It needs to be a healthcare thing. We
need to be looking at people's health and looking at
what is good for them. Not only do they need
jobs and income, but they also need healthcare. And so
this is wrong what's happening. And I just want to
make a comment that I called the White House just
to comment it. You know, why in the world and
(18:37):
unique with the folks from the opposite side that you
were supposed to have a Sunday meeting to work work
this out and you canceled the meeting. So obviously it
looked like people wanted to meet and talk about this,
but no one was interested in hearing it unless they
immediately accepted exactly what you know, what one side said.
And that's not negotiation. That's not working. So I called
the White House and I got a I got a
(18:59):
record that I've never heard with any administration, even when
they were shut down or something. The recording was the
Press secretary saying to me. She's saying, well, we ape
you know, we are shut down because of this government shutdown,
so we can't answer your call right now, but you know,
we're very interested and we're trying to do the right
thing by you, et cetera. But we want you to
know that the reason this shutdown is happening is because
(19:22):
the Democrats want to fund health care for illegal immigrants
and we are not going to And you know what,
I have been working in this shortage area for forty years, okay,
with the same you know, with Medicaid and medicare my
primary pays unless your self pay or whatever, you know,
(19:42):
before Obamacare, and I have never had someone who is
illegally getting benefits from this government. Okay, that is a lie.
And it's a now white lie. And it really infuriated
me to hear that on the White House hawk I'm
being told. I mean, I thought that white House hawk
one was supposed to be for us to give up.
Is they're not supposed to be propaganduizing whatever it is
(20:03):
that one side or the other is trying to say,
very very very much.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Thank you, thank you so much, Yanda. It sounds like
your dogs are getting very excited about this too. In
the background on health care to well, I appreciate the call.
Thank you, Candy Curly. It's so interesting to hear somebody
there on the ground with people who rely on Medicare
and Medicaid and Obamacare, and she's looking well past the
(20:27):
government shutdown and saying this is the real issue, which
is what the Democrats have been saying.
Speaker 9 (20:32):
Right, And it's very few subjects touched home as closely
as healthcare does, regardless of what venue you're getting it through.
And you know, the Democrats have a popular argument, if
you will, you know it is, first of all, by law,
(20:53):
undocumented workers cannot have access to any program not Medicare Medicaid.
Does Medicaid pick up some of the er care that
anybody will get walking into a public hospital because by
law they have to treat people. Yes, but that's not
them having Medicaid or Medicare. So, you know, I think
(21:15):
it's a cogent issue. I think Democrats seem to be
on the right side of this issue because it is
something that people care about. But I think the Republicans
have done a great job in what you just heard
that the White House is saying on a recording. They
are saying it in other places as well well. What
Republicans really want is to give medicaid to undocumented workers.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
What Democrats really want is what they're saying, right, Yeah, exactly, Tolliver.
I want to find out what's coming in online, but
I don't want to lose our caller. Ryan here is
calling in from Salt Lake City, who is a government employee. Ryan,
tell us how this is affecting you.
Speaker 17 (21:55):
Hi, thanks for having me. So, I think one thing
that the general public doesn't understand, and I can't speak
for other agencies. I know the agency I work for
at least, and I have worked for more than one.
But during a furlough, we cannot seek outside employment to
(22:18):
basically steer clear of any conflicts of interest, So I
can't just go get another job in the meantime.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
So what do you do whether we have enough money
to live on?
Speaker 17 (22:37):
I think it's a great question. Fortunately, I'm not paycheck
to paycheck, like well some of my own co workers
who were also held exempt from the furlough. And it's
a public facing operation. So operations are there are no operations.
(22:59):
Stores are closed, but they're still being forced to go
in every day and do nothing.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
M Ryan, let me ask you one more thing to
you do you call your congressman in the moment like
this and complain to them and say you've got to
figure this out. I have.
Speaker 17 (23:19):
Not since shut down, but I've oken up on a
number of issues actually throughout the year, and I think
it's just I think we've all come to accept that
our elected officials are not really speaking for those they represent,
(23:40):
so in many ways, a wasted effort.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, Ryan, I appreciate the call, Thank you so much.
And Ray Suarez. There is a deadline coming up, I
think this week for a lot of federal employees, and
then next week on October fifteenth, the troops would miss
a paycheck if the shut down continues. Are those deadlines
do you think important enough that maybe there will be
(24:05):
some action before then.
Speaker 8 (24:08):
I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that
an exception will be made for the troops because they
are a very politically sensitive part of our national workforce,
and you know, everybody wants to wrap themselves in the
flag on this one, so you might get some widespread
(24:30):
agreement about continuing to pay the troops. But air traffic controllers,
curators at the Smithsonian Park, rangers, people testing water samples
in the upwaters of the Missouri River, you know those people.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I don't know, Teliver, Yeah, Ray, I had a question.
So a lot of our listeners are emailing about ICE
and about asking if the shut down affects, you know,
ICE enforcement.
Speaker 8 (25:00):
I don't believe it does, and I would be very
surprised if any paychecks aren't going out to them while
they are deployed in the streets of American cities. Certainly
their gas is getting paid for, And.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah, I believe I read that they are considered essential
even during a shutdown, So I.
Speaker 8 (25:24):
Would have been shocked if any halt or slowing down
of those operations would happen during the shutdown.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, Lillian is calling in from Tampa, Florida. Lillian, go
ahead with your thoughts. How is the shutdown affecting you?
Speaker 11 (25:40):
It's affecting me because I'm worried. The budget bills already
affected me. I've lost sixty dollars in food stamps, and
I'm not sure that the people who process those will
be able to do that. Next month, I receive Medicare
(26:05):
and Medicaid, I'm not sure those will be processed. I'm
on Social Security because I'm a retire e. I'm not
sure those will be processed. So I'm already having trouble
just paying rents and utilities and getting food in my house.
And the longer this goes on and the less services
that may be provided just have me not panicked yet
(26:31):
but on the verge of panic. And there is no
middle here. We're either too port to manage this or
well enough off that they don't give a damn. Sorry,
but that's just how I feel at this point.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Yeah, you feel that people are not thinking about people
in your income level as we go through this experience.
Speaker 11 (26:54):
No, because they don't experience it. I just wish they'd
live thirty days on our income and they would understand
how devastating this can be. And I won't call my
congressman because he's a Republican. I know he doesn't care.
(27:14):
And if it was a Democrat, I would call and
say stick with it, because this isn't the Democrat. The
Republicans have the House, they have Congress, the Senate, they
have the presidency. How they can blame the party, the
minority party is beyond me, and how people don't see
(27:35):
that is also beyond me. I'm just totally disgusted.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
And Verian, yeah, thank you so much. And we're thinking
of you as this goes on, Candy crole your thoughts,
just as we hear that really real story from Lilian
about how this is affecting.
Speaker 9 (27:53):
Her, right, because that's the problem is that people who
can at least afford it, that's where the most impact is, right,
And so what you're going to see is and I
will say Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security payments all
should go out. I don't if that helps her at all.
It becives you're a little hope those things should still
go out. So but the wik program, you know, food
(28:15):
food stamps, things like that, I think there are you know,
those things are affected. Housing what doesn't stop slows down,
and slowing down when you are living not just paycheck
to paycheck, but day to day is absolutely devastating. And
(28:35):
so it's always the people who can least afford it
that feel the very first impact. And then and then
it trickles out because what happens is that the people
who have been being paid because they're government workers, or
they're getting they're in the wik program or one of
the snap, one of the food programs. UH, they're no
(28:55):
longer buying things. So who does that affect? That affects
the small store at the end of the red or
the big store. So eventually it spreads into businesses. But
right now, the people who are feeling it within the
first week are the people who can at least afford.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It, right and Ray, there was a redfinn Ipso survey
that found seventeen percent of Americans are delaying a major
purchase because of the shutdown, in seven percent are canceling
a major purchase. So it is already having larger economic effects.
Speaker 8 (29:26):
Especially in a region like this one where not only
people who directly work for the federal government, as we
heard from one of your callers, there are vendors, there
are contractors, There are firms that do work for the
federal government that know they're not going to get paid.
Restaurants and hotels are already seeing a drop off in business.
(29:46):
It's going to spread its tendrils out gradually as it
drags on and affect a lot of businesses.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Well Tolliver. Before President Trump's first term, the longest shutdown
ever was under President Clinton. That to twenty one days.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Yeah, here's Clinton back in January of nineteen ninety six,
just three days before that shutdown ended.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
This is not how a great country behaves. And as
I have said for months and months and every day
since this shutdown occurred, this is not how to balance
the budget. It is not influencing our talks. We ought
to reopen the government.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Interesting to hear him say that it's not influencing our talks,
like all that negotiating tactic is for nothing.
Speaker 18 (30:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Yeah, we will.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Have more of your calls coming up on the middle.
This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. In this hour,
we're asking you how the government shutdown is affecting you.
You can call us at eight four four four Middle.
That's eight four four four six four three three five
three again eight four four four six four three three
five three, or you can reach out to us at
Listen to the Middle dot com. I am joined by
(30:57):
journalists and author Ray Suarez and former CNN Chief plitical
correspondent Candy Crowley. Let me get another call in here.
Robert is in Boise, Idaho. Robert, go ahead with your thoughts.
How is the government shutdown affecting you?
Speaker 5 (31:10):
Well, I'm lucky because I work, I am not on
Social Security. But how it's affecting me is I have
I have a husband who is in federal prison, and
they are not getting any contact whatsoever like males. You know,
(31:32):
male's being delivered, but male is not being presented to
the prisoners. You know, I'm lucky because I know where
my spouse is. However, you were talking earlier about the
people who've been arrested by eyes and if they're trying
to reach out to somebody where they don't know where
(31:53):
they're at and they can't get mail, that's that's how
it's that's affecting a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Pull how long do you think that it will go on?
Speaker 9 (32:04):
Are you?
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Are you thinking it's going to last for a while
or this will be over soon.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
I'm tessimistic. I'd like, you know, i'd like to say
it would end in a couple of weeks. I you know,
if this is anything like other countries where you know,
things have been you know, shut down, like France and
other countries, this could take months.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Robert, thank you for that call, Candy Crawley. That's one
I wasn't thinking of, but it's a good point. You know,
when you have to interact with it, with any government
agency or service, it can be a problem when there's
a shutdown.
Speaker 10 (32:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (32:40):
Absolutely, And again, any any kind of service is going
to be slower because a lot of the federal I'm
assuming this is a federal prison. He's talking about anything
that you know, the I R. S or the Agriculture Department,
any sort of service there. If these are non essential wors,
they're not coming into work now. So whatever it is
(33:03):
you're getting from the government is going to be slower,
whether it's the mail obviously the post office is sort
of one of those hybrid places. But you know, I'm
not exactly sure what the problem is in the prisons,
but I'm assuming if it's a federal prison that there
are certain people considered non essential. We'd love to know
who they are. But nonetheless, it is across the board
(33:26):
going to affect things, and I just think it takes
a while for people to know. If you haven't filed
your income tax yet, half the I R S is
gone at this point, so you've got what another week
left to file if you're late, and you should file
on time, and then that would be a problem. But nonetheless,
if you go to the I R S for help,
(33:47):
better luck on that. So there's lots of things and
programs that the federal government does and can no longer
deliver on, at least in a speedy fashion.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, Mary is calling in from Parksville, Tennis. See Mary,
how is the government shut down affecting you?
Speaker 19 (34:04):
Well, personally, not y.
Speaker 10 (34:08):
Some of my coworkers were for for a load, but
I was not for a load because my project is
not funded through the appropriations.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
You work for.
Speaker 19 (34:23):
No, I don't work for the government. I am a
field interviewer for I do social science research and our
projects are funded by the government. My project is not
funded through the through the appropriations UH process, So my
project is still funded that some of my co workers
(34:46):
have been for a load they got a stoft work order.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Mhm uh. And what are your concerns? Are you worried
that that it could end up affecting you soon and
you're just not yet affected?
Speaker 8 (35:00):
Well?
Speaker 19 (35:02):
Yeah, for me, my main concern is I was cut
off Medicaid when my son turned nineteen earlier this year,
because he was the reason why I qualified. In Tennessee,
they didn't expand medicaid, so there's no medicaid for anyone,
doesn't matter how low their income.
Speaker 10 (35:22):
Is, if they don't have someone that.
Speaker 19 (35:26):
They care for. So I'm cut off. Shortly after I
got cut or shortly before I got cut off, I
learned I had a too. I have a tu mark
that needs to c surgery. So I'm waiting until next year,
twenty twenty six, when my son will not be my
tax dependent anymore, and when I'm waiting for November when
(35:50):
the ACA opens back up. But if they, if they,
if the Democrats don't stand their ground, if they back down,
or if the Republicans don't make a compromise, then and
the Scepties go away, I might not get health care
(36:10):
and might not be able to get certainty that I need.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Yeah, Mary, thank you. I appreciate your call, and Rey Souarez,
there are more than twenty million people who are on
this on these Obamacare plans where the subsidies would expire
within a matter of weeks.
Speaker 8 (36:31):
Jeremy Less talked about is the fact that if this does,
if the subsidies from the Affordable Care Act do go away,
Red states are going to be hit harder than Blue
states because those states more generally failed to expand Medicare
(36:52):
and Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act, pushing more people
into the ACA marketplace, And if those subsidies go away,
you're just going to have a huge new number of
people with no access to healthcare at all. The kind
of people that will lose their care in red states
(37:17):
are on Medicare and Medicaid in Blue states because they're
governors and their legislators agreed to extend coverage under the
Affordable Care Act. So it's not a rain that falls
equally on everybody's house, let's put it that way.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Well, and when you hear these callers that have been
calling in that are really desperate for the services that
they get from the government, whether it's a subsidy for
healthcare or whether it's food stamps or what have you.
It makes you understand why even Marjorie Taylor Green, a
very very conservative member of Congress, Candy came out and said,
(37:57):
it's the Republicans who need to open the government. She
is taught talking to people who are worried about the
healthcare premium issue that Ray was just mentioning, and she's
she's saying, don't blame the Democrats, like, we need to
deal with this healthcare issue.
Speaker 9 (38:12):
Right, including members of her family that are being affected.
They've already gotten their notice of how much their Obamacare
costs are going to go up. It is a wonder
to me because I feel as though the Democrats have
actually done Republicans of favor. They just kind of need
to say yes, right, because this is the train is
(38:34):
coming down that track. You hear this in a lot
of on the streets, but you hear this from the
caller just heard, is that I'm about to lose my healthcare.
A lot of people twenty million, as you say, or
on Obamacare who suddenly are seeing sometimes two and three
hundred percent increases or will see them, and Democrats have gone, WHOA,
(38:55):
we can't do this, And you know, Republicans want to
say yes at this point, but it's because comes such
a power struggle about well, we'll talk about it after
you open the government. And I just think they're politically speaking,
this has been a gift from Democrats that Republicans either
don't see or don't want to see. But I do
(39:17):
think it's an opportunity for them to undo or to
not get into some of the damage that would be
done if these Obamacare subsidies go away.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Tolliver, what else is coming in online?
Speaker 16 (39:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Candice and Casey listening from caseu Are says, as much
as I disagree with the government shut down, I also
disagree that the pandemic era subsidies for private insurance plans
should continue. She thinks we need to move to single payer.
And then Bob and Tallahassee says, what's the possibility that
the administration could differentiate between Democrat and Republican voters then
(39:50):
decide on that basis who to pay and who not
to pay, which I thought was kind of an interesting question.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, that is an interesting question, Ray, I mean, could
they even do that if they I wanted to say,
we're just gonna pay that.
Speaker 8 (40:01):
Well, the President is mused about it, he's talking about
cutting certain programs and certain employees from the federal government,
or making sure that certain employees and departments don't get
paid when the shutdown is over. He thinks, or at
least is pretending to think, that there's a surgical way
(40:24):
to do that. I would I would strenuously disagree. There
is no way to do that. And this is going
to end up hurting a lot more people than he
If he thinks he can just do this in a way,
a binary way, and hurt Democrats and not Republicans, he's
really misreading the situation getting bad advice.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Tory is calling in from Fort Collins, Colorado. Tory, go ahead,
How is the government shutdown affecting you?
Speaker 18 (40:55):
Hi? I wanted to talk about kind of a niche
issue that the government shutdown is having an effect on.
There's about two hundred and fifty scientific observers that are
contracted and work for NOAH and the National Marine Fishery Service.
They are out on boats in the Bearing Sea taking
(41:18):
data every day. But they're advisors and basically anyone on
land who is in charge of that data and the
observers they're furloughed, So these people are out at sea
without their advisors giving them information.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Wow, are you part of that group? Do you do
you have connections there?
Speaker 8 (41:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 18 (41:43):
I was a scientific observer and so I have a
lot of friends who are at sea right now or
who just got back from being at sea to very
strange time.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, I bet are they worried about their own safety?
Speaker 18 (42:00):
I don't think it's safety wise. There are the contract
companies that the government uses to hire observers. We do
have a few coordinators that do their best to take
care of the observers, and they will stare in contact
with the boats themselves. But in terms of the fishing
data which are used to set all those fishing quotas
(42:22):
for salmon, halibit, anything that's fish for any questions with
the data or any problem they have with the boat
people will have to wait until they get back to land,
and it could be months before they're able to sort
of debrief this with a government official.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Yeah, very interesting, Thank you Tory for that. I'm going
to just go to you Rey for a second here,
because what this reminds me of is in my history
in public broadcasting, if you're working at like the network
like NPR or PBS, and you're out in the field
somewhere very far from the home base and something goes wrong,
They've got the resources to deal with you. But if
you're working for like a local station and you're out
(43:01):
and covering a hurricane or something like that, if something
goes wrong, they're not going to be able to help you.
I feel for these people in the Bearing Sea, because
that's got to be the last thing on Congress's mind
about how this shutdown is affecting people.
Speaker 8 (43:14):
And the caller called it very niche. But there are
thousands of jobs working for the federal government. Then a
lot of people wouldn't even realize is a job, and
they're all across farming and manufacturing and the environment.
Speaker 11 (43:33):
It is.
Speaker 8 (43:35):
You know, everybody has things that they wish the government
didn't do, but then there's government workers that they like.
And this is one of those things where you put
it to people that they say, well, you know, we
can probably farm that work out. But if you are
involved in the very serious and large fisheries industry in
(43:56):
Alaska and something is throwing a monkey wrench into the works,
it's a perfect example of how all the changes is
whose ox is being gored.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Jamie is calling in from West Milton, Pennsylvania. Hi, Jamie,
how's the shutdown affecting you?
Speaker 15 (44:14):
So the shutdown is not affecting me directly, it is
affecting a family member in a nursing home in another state.
And the longer this because on the bigger the concern
gets that and what Trump is proposing with cuts to
(44:35):
Medicaid and then Medicare. Of course, although most people don't
even realize Medicare is going to be hit so hard.
I am waiting to see how this plays out. I
live in income based housing for seniors. There are people
here who definitely are being impacted. But I want to
(44:59):
tell you that I support I am sorry that so
many Americans are being adversely affected by the shutdown. However,
I support the shutdown because they're for two reasons. The
Republicans are holding Democrats responsible when they know for a
(45:22):
fact that they can use what they call the nuclear option,
which has been used in the past to.
Speaker 16 (45:31):
Bring the.
Speaker 15 (45:33):
Right to bring everybody back on board, but they're not
doing it. They're pointing out how horrible the Democrats are.
They're making a spectacle of it. They're blaming everybody for
what they wouldn't do. They went on vacation for a
week before when discussions were could have happened. They went
(45:53):
on vacation again, short plan on vacation even before the
shutdown was going to happen. None of them are serious
about this, none of them. They're looking to blame us
and it's all a cover up.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Well, let me ask Candy Crowley about that main point, Jamie,
because I'm interested in that too, which is, couldn't they
change the rules they did it for how many votes
you need to get a Supreme Court nominee through? Couldn't
the Republicans to say, Okay, we're going to just allow
fifty votes now from now fifty one votes to get
to get the government reopened.
Speaker 9 (46:25):
My honest answer is I'm not sure, except for they
could pretty much do anything. I think the question that
always stops one side or the other from declaring the
nuclear option is they're not always going to be in control.
So once they use nuclear option, what keeps the other
side from using that when they get back in power.
(46:46):
So there's been they've been fairly cautious about it, and
this may be one of those things that they are
cautious about. But I don't know that the ins and
outs about whether they could just say, yeah, we don't
need sixty votes, we only need fifty.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Yeah, we have come to the end of the hour. Ray,
I'll just give you the last word here. As we've
heard this hour. There are at least two other huge
stories going on right now, the ceasefire and hostage release
still in the Middle East, President Trump sending the National
Guard troops to multiple American cities against the wishes of
local officials. Do you see all these things as connected
(47:21):
in any way.
Speaker 8 (47:23):
Yes, they are part of a presidential assertion of unprecedented power.
Donald Trump wants to show that he is the ruler
of the United States, that he has the kind of
power that allows him to overrule governors and send National
(47:43):
Guards members from other states, from other jurisdictions into their
states over their objections. A big, big deal. And as
far as the Middle East peace goes, you would think
he wouldn't want I want to crowd out the picture
that he'd want to the chance for a victory. Lap Uh.
(48:05):
This is for a guy who's very, very obsessed with
coverage and the optics of problems. You'd think that this
would be more important to him.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Well. A great note to end On journalist Ray Suarez,
host of the PBS series Wisdom Keepers, and former CNN
political correspondent Candy Crowley. Thanks so much to both of
you for being here.
Speaker 8 (48:26):
Thank you, Thanks a lot, and.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. There are extra
episodes of our One Thing Trump Did podcast every week
on the Middle podcast feed, and next week we'll be
back here joined by astrophysicist Neil de grass Tyson, taking
your calls about the role of science in the public life,
which is certainly top of mind right now after big
cuts to scientific research funding by the federal government.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
You can reach us at eight four four four Middle
that's eight four four four sixty four three three five three,
or you can reach out it listen to the Middle
dot com, where you can also sign up for our
free weekly newsletter.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
I like how you really just enunciate? Listen to the
Middle dot com.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
The Middle is brought to you by Longnick Media, distributed
by Illinois Public Media and or Bandon Illinois and produced
by Harrison Patino, Danny, Alexander Samburmstas, John barth, Anakadeshler, and
Brandon Condritz. Our technical director is Steve Mork. Thanks to
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the country to listen to the Middle I'm Jeremy Hobson,
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Support for the Middle comes from the stations that air
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at Listen Toothmiddle dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson, and while the
federal government may be shut down, we are still very
much here, even our DJ Tolliver, who is apparently an
essential employee.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Tolliver, Oh, I bet you say that to all the DJs.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, exactly, although also it should point out public radio
doesn't get any federal funding anymore, so we wouldn't be
included in a government shutdown anyway. Maybe that's too soon,
but this is the at least eleventh government shutdown since
nineteen eighty The longest ever was thirty five days during
the first Trump administration. Some of the big things the
government pays for, like Social Security and Medicare, are unaffected,
(00:47):
but many other areas of spending are, and hundreds of
thousands of federal workers are either working without being paid
or not working at all. It is not a sustainable
way to run a business or a government. And we're
gonna get the why with our guests in a moment,
but from you, we want to know the what. What
does the government shut down mean for you. Are you
one of the federal workers who's been laid off? Are
(01:09):
you worried about whether you'll be able to get your
snap benefits? Have you been stranded at an airport or
unable to take a trip to a national park. We
want to hear from you at eight four four four
middle that's eight four four four six four three three
five three, or you can write to us at listen
toothemiddle dot com. But first, last week on the show,
we asked what you thought of President Trump's use of
(01:29):
the National Guard in cities around the country. Here are
some of the voicemails we got.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Hello, my name is Ben, calling from Michigan, and calling
in the National Guard to police our cities is like
calling in a.
Speaker 5 (01:44):
Hammer when not everything is a nail that needs to
be driven in.
Speaker 6 (01:49):
Hi, my name is Evan Corlis. I'm calling from southern
New Hampshire. It kind of seems odd that we have
deployments that aren't really doing much of anything. And if
the purposes to quote unquote clear the streets or reduced crime,
why isn't any of that direct action happening.
Speaker 7 (02:07):
My name is Joan and calling from California. What do
I think about the National Guard being used in our
own country the way it's being used. Well, as far
as I can tell, it's nothing about a threat from
our president. He's threatening all of us, and that ain't cool.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Man, That ain't cool. Tolliver. Thanks everyone called in. You
can hear that full show by subscribing to the Middle
wherever you listen to podcasts. So our question this hour,
how does the government shutdown affect you? Tolliver? How can
people reach us?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
You can call us at eight four four four a
Middle that's eight four four four six four three three
five three, or you can write to us or me
at listen to the Middle dot com. I'm checking all
your emails, or comment on our live stream on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Joining us this hour Journalist and author Ray Suarez, host
of the new series Wisdom Keepers on PBS. Ray, great
to have you back on the show.
Speaker 8 (02:56):
Great to be invited.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Thanks, and former CNN Chief political correspondent Candy Crowley is
with us as well. Candy, great to have you back
as well.
Speaker 9 (03:04):
Oh, thanks for having me.
Speaker 10 (03:06):
Well.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
So before we get to the phones, you've both seen
many government shutdowns throughout your career, Candy, I'll start with you,
is there anything different about this one.
Speaker 9 (03:17):
I think the lack of urgency has struck me more
than anything. Now. You know, before I was kind of
in the middle of it, you know, when you're covering
Capitol Hill. I can't believe I've been through eleven of
them or tend them anyway. And there just doesn't seem
to be any kind of pressure at this moment. And
there's also sort of all these outside things happening. I
(03:38):
was struck tonight that most of the evening news is
all of the cables that got around to the government
shutdown about halfway through the show.
Speaker 7 (03:46):
So there's no.
Speaker 9 (03:48):
There just doesn't seem to be an urgency to it
at this moment.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Well and Ray, the other thing that struck me is
that the central issue right now in the negotiations seems
to be healthcare. Democrats want these Obamacare subsidies that are
about to expire to be extended. If that doesn't happen,
there are millions of Americans who will see huge spike
in their insurance premiums. Does that mean that at its core,
this shutdown is just another fight over Obamacare, which has
(04:15):
been litigated so many times over the years.
Speaker 8 (04:19):
Yeah, but it's true. But It's a funny kind of
fight over Obamacare because right now the Democrats are saving
the Republicans from the full bite of what that Republican
cutback would mean if it was allowed to take effect.
And yet it's not clear that the Democrats are going
(04:41):
to get any credit for that, not so far anyway.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
But you think based on the way that you say that,
you think that they will actually extend the subsidies for
Obamacare at the end.
Speaker 8 (04:52):
Of the day, it's not at all clear that that
will be the eventual outcome.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
And you know, the.
Speaker 8 (05:00):
Current speaker, it seems to be holding the line against
the man who thinks he's the future speaker. It's hard
to see how anybody comes out a winner, including the
voters on this.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
One and Candy. President Trump has said that because of
the shutdown, he wants to permanently lay off federal workers,
close down programs that Democrats like. He's already frozen funding
for some infrastructure projects in states like California, New York
and Illinois. Can he really do that? Have you seen
that happen in a shutdown before?
Speaker 9 (05:32):
I have not seen that in a shutdown before. In fact,
I think that he cannot use it as an excuse
to get rid of entire programs or even to fire
people who are quote, the non essential. So the people
who are sitting at home waiting for this to end
so they can go back to work. So no, I
don't think he can, but I think it's at the
(05:52):
moment it seems like a bargaining thing. Well, I'm just
going to get rid of all your programs, and to
which the Democrats reply, why is that new? That's what
he's been doing since January, So this is just dozed
by any other name. Is still you know, cutting people
out of jobs, But at the moment, we haven't seen it,
and it's been more seems to me, it has been
more of a wedge to try to get Democrats to
(06:17):
move on this, saying Okay, I'll just fire people.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Ray. What kind of leverage do you think that Democrats
have right now?
Speaker 8 (06:24):
Well, it's long been said in Washington that if the
other party holds the trifecta the House, the Senate, and
the Oval Office, all you have is negative power, the
power to make things not happen. And that's what the
Democrats are using right now. It's sometimes a risky maneuver,
but it's all they've got. They can't make anything happen
(06:47):
that they want to happen, So all they can do
right now is dig in their heels, try to message
that they're doing it on behalf of people who are
going to be hurt by Republican spending plans if they
go into effect, and see what happens.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Candy, if we zoom out for a moment here, you
mentioned that there are so many other huge stories going
on in the news today, not least of which is
a potential peace deal in the Middle East. What are
these recurring shutdowns, not just this one, but all of
them that we've had in recent years due to America's
credibility economically and otherwise, especially when you have a president
(07:25):
who touts his negotiating ability and now we're in a stalemate.
Speaker 9 (07:30):
Right, And what does it do to Americans trust in
their government to get anything done? I mean, when you've
got you know, I think one of the Democrat talking
points is listen, they're in charge of everything, so they're responsible, right,
And that seemed to have some residents. As far as
I can see, We're far from done with this, so
who knows how it'll all shake down. But the truth
(07:51):
is that in the end, nobody I think you know,
Ray said it right. In the end, nobody wins this thing.
And again it hasn't it hasn't begun to hurt to
the extent that has filtered up to Congress or to
the President. And I think it it certainly doesn't help.
(08:11):
It just looks like chaos. You're sitting over in you know,
Italy or you know wherever, watching yet another you know,
you see troops on the streets, and you see people,
you know, protesting on the streets, and then all of
a sudden, the government's not working and you know half
the irs is off, which you know most people doesn't
sound bad, but so you know, it just adds to
(08:33):
the kind of chaos that doesn't help markets, it doesn't
help American people, and it certainly looks bad from the
overseas perspective.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
A reminder that you can reach us at eight four
four four middle that's eight four four four six four
three three five three. I just want to sneak in
a call here before we take a quick break. Kelly
and Eugene Oregon is joining us. Kelly, how's the government
of shuts down affecting you?
Speaker 11 (08:59):
Well?
Speaker 12 (09:00):
Affects me? Two different ways. There's my business and we
provide services to a lot of the government community, and
we're not able to get paid now with them being furloughed.
So therefore that leaves a huge gap for all of
(09:20):
the independent contractors that I have that work with me
with these vendors. And then on a personal note, I
have so many people in my circle that now cannot work.
They are not receiving a paycheck, and therefore they're concerned
about if they have no money coming in by the
(09:41):
end of this month, what is that going to do
for their home payment, for car payment, most importantly their children,
how are they going to eat? And so it's a
really sad state of you know, besides worrying about the
obvious that we have with the current administration of affecting Oregon,
it's really sad for this now to be going on
(10:05):
on top of all the rest of it.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And how long do you think it's going to go on?
Speaker 12 (10:12):
Well, unfortunately, despite the lies that are being put out there,
the Republicans do run both the House and the Senate,
and from what I've seen and what I've read and heard,
unless things are brought to the table the way that
they want it. We could be looking at this Unfortunately,
(10:36):
I don't. I wouldn't be surprised if they took it
through to the holidays. I really wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Kelly, thank you for that call.
Speaker 12 (10:44):
Not concerned.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, I think we've got the point, Kelly, Thank you
so much. Race war is what do you think, just briefly,
I mean, could it go that long to the holidays?
Speaker 8 (10:56):
It could? Uh, that would make it one of the
longest shutdowns, if not the longest, in the annals of
this thing happening in recent decades.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Candy, I don't know.
Speaker 8 (11:09):
You'd have to check me on this, but I think
that would make it the longest.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, it would be served. Five days was the longest
before that. Yeah, yeah, Tulliver. By the way, President Trump
has laid the blame at the feet of Democratic lawmakers,
but he had a much different take before he was
president of the United States.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yeah, he was actually very vocal about who's at fault
for a government shut down. Here he is in an
interview back in twenty eleven during the Obama administration, talking
with Today host Meredith Vieira.
Speaker 13 (11:36):
In my opinion, you know, I hear the Democrats are
going to be blamed and.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
The Republicans are going to be blamed.
Speaker 13 (11:41):
I actually think the president would be blamed if there
is a shutdown, and it's not going to be a
horrible shutdown because as you know, things will sort of keep.
Speaker 9 (11:49):
Well, it's a partial shutdown, right.
Speaker 13 (11:51):
If there is a shutdown, I think it would be
a tremendously negative mark on the president of the United States.
He's the one that has to get people together.
Speaker 9 (11:58):
How's he going to corral a So how would you
do it now? Now you're in the Oval office right now.
Speaker 13 (12:03):
I would get to every buddy together and we'd have
a budget.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
And they've all gotten together.
Speaker 13 (12:08):
Well, that's because they don't have the right leader.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
The right leader that was then, Tolliver, that was then,
Now he alls that leader. So we'll have your calls
coming up on the Middle. This is the Middle. I'm
Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning in the Middle as
a national call in show, we're focused on elevating voices
from the middle geographically, politically, philosophically, or maybe you just
want to meet in the middle. This hour, we're asking
(12:31):
you how the government shutdown is affecting you. Tolliver, what
is the number to call in.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four sixty four three three five three. You can also
write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com.
I'm checking all your emails, so get him in, or
you can hit us up on social media.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I'm joined by former CNN Chief political correspondent Candy Crowley
and journalists and author Ray Suarez. Let's go back to
the phones and Joan, who is in Ridgecrest, California. Joan,
how's the shut down effected.
Speaker 14 (13:04):
Well, it's not affected me directly this time, but I
think that people don't understand exactly how the shutdown works.
And as we get to furlough's. My husband was part
of the Department of Defense. Last time we went through
shutdowns in we lost paychecks. And now Trump is, you know,
(13:27):
saying if we go into furlough or shut down for
too long, then people are going to start getting fired. Well,
I don't see how.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
I don't see how.
Speaker 14 (13:38):
This problem that is being caused by people in our
Congress that can't get together and figure this out, which
is by the way, Democrats are Republicans. They can't figure
this out. They get they get a vacation and they're paid,
they come back and they don't do their job, and
they're paid, and all these people are at risk. I
(14:02):
don't understand how this is.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Okay, yeah, Joan, thank you for that call. Candy Crowley.
It is interesting. It would probably light a fire under
Congress if they didn't get paid during a shutdown.
Speaker 9 (14:14):
It's it's always to be kind of amazing because there
are all these people who generally I don't I don't
recall a time when they didn't get back pay. So,
but that doesn't help when the ranters do now. It
doesn't help when your credit card bill comes in and
they're just adding more and more fees to it. So
(14:37):
but the fact of the matter is, it's to me
would be embarrassing as a congress person to be sitting
at home. There's, as far as I can see, no
upper negotiations going on with the people that can actually
make a difference. Doesn't seem to be any kind of
conversation other than through the TV with talking points, and
(14:58):
they're all hanging out and getting their paychecks. It's a
bad look. It's why I think in the end, this
might be a wash in terms of who they blame.
I think that the caller hinted at it, which is,
you know, in the end and up here in an
area that I think is largely Republican, I know is
largely Republican. Ra I am now in Upper Michigan. It's
(15:21):
a pox on both their houses, right, they're mad at everybody.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah, you know, Ray. The other thing that we heard
from Joan there was that, you know, she was expecting
that people would get paid at the end of the day.
But Trump did float the other day that maybe they
won't pay certain people at the end of the shutdown.
I don't know if they will.
Speaker 8 (15:41):
Actually talking about you with that only some people being
guaranteed their back pay and being backed up by his
own budget director and head of OMB. So this may
be different this time around if they try, I think
the politically risky move of not giving federal employees back pay.
(16:05):
You know, there's this fantasy that all of them live
right here in Washington, DC, But in fact, the tens
of thousands of people who work for the federal government
are scattered across the country. And yes they're concentrated here
in the Capitol, but even here in this region, the
(16:25):
contagion could spread. Mark Zandi, economist at Moody's analytics identified
all four of the states around here as being either
in recession or on the verge of recession Maryland, Virginia, Delaware,
and West Virginia, all of which have links to the
DC economy. So I don't know, could be a roll
(16:46):
of the dice. You've got Winsome Earl Sears trying to
win a governor's race in Virginia. It could be tough
for her if thousands of Virginians who work for the
federal government are not getting paid because of a publican
president and the machinations of Russell Vote, one of the
Father's intellectual godfathers of Project twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Right, And actually outside of the Washington, DC area, two
of the other states that have the highest number of
federal workers are California and Texas, one big blue state,
one big red state. So it really does affect people
all across the country. Let's go to doctor Yolanda, who's
calling from Kansas City, Kansas. Welcome to the middle. How's
(17:30):
the government shutdown affecting you?
Speaker 15 (17:32):
Well?
Speaker 16 (17:32):
Thank you well. I work in the county in wind
Dot County, which has healthcare statistics civil to Alabamas. Okay,
and base. It's the health and I work in the
health Manpower Person Shortage Area, Nampawa Shortage Area, and thirty
percent of my patients have Medicaid. Thirty percent of my
patients have Medicare, twenty percent probably on Obamacare, and the
(17:54):
others are either self pay or have insurance from their jobs. Okay,
and it will affect my patients. I mean if if
my patients can't get care, because you know, the request
is that they continue the Obamacare and then and then
open up the government. I think that that's a legitimate request.
I don't think that it's a little thing, you know,
(18:16):
And and it's very sad that they're making it a
political thing. It needs to be a healthcare thing. We
need to be looking at people's health and looking at
what is good for them. Not only do they need
jobs and income, but they also need healthcare. And so
this is wrong what's happening. And I just want to
make a comment that I called the White House just
to comment it. You know, why in the world and
(18:37):
unique with the folks from the opposite side that you
were supposed to have a Sunday meeting to work work
this out and you canceled the meeting. So obviously it
looked like people wanted to meet and talk about this,
but no one was interested in hearing it unless they
immediately accepted exactly what you know, what one side said.
And that's not negotiation. That's not working. So I called
the White House and I got a I got a
(18:59):
record that I've never heard with any administration, even when
they were shut down or something. The recording was the
Press secretary saying to me. She's saying, well, we ape
you know, we are shut down because of this government shutdown,
so we can't answer your call right now, but you know,
we're very interested and we're trying to do the right
thing by you, et cetera. But we want you to
know that the reason this shutdown is happening is because
(19:22):
the Democrats want to fund health care for illegal immigrants
and we are not going to And you know what,
I have been working in this shortage area for forty years, okay,
with the same you know, with Medicaid and medicare my
primary pays unless your self pay or whatever, you know,
(19:42):
before Obamacare, and I have never had someone who is
illegally getting benefits from this government. Okay, that is a lie.
And it's a now white lie. And it really infuriated
me to hear that on the White House hawk I'm
being told. I mean, I thought that white House hawk
one was supposed to be for us to give up.
Is they're not supposed to be propaganduizing whatever it is
(20:03):
that one side or the other is trying to say,
very very very much.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Thank you, thank you so much, Yanda. It sounds like
your dogs are getting very excited about this too. In
the background on health care to well, I appreciate the call.
Thank you, Candy Curly. It's so interesting to hear somebody
there on the ground with people who rely on Medicare
and Medicaid and Obamacare, and she's looking well past the
(20:27):
government shutdown and saying this is the real issue, which
is what the Democrats have been saying.
Speaker 9 (20:32):
Right, And it's very few subjects touched home as closely
as healthcare does, regardless of what venue you're getting it through.
And you know, the Democrats have a popular argument, if
you will, you know it is, first of all, by law,
(20:53):
undocumented workers cannot have access to any program not Medicare Medicaid.
Does Medicaid pick up some of the er care that
anybody will get walking into a public hospital because by
law they have to treat people. Yes, but that's not
them having Medicaid or Medicare. So, you know, I think
(21:15):
it's a cogent issue. I think Democrats seem to be
on the right side of this issue because it is
something that people care about. But I think the Republicans
have done a great job in what you just heard
that the White House is saying on a recording. They
are saying it in other places as well well. What
Republicans really want is to give medicaid to undocumented workers.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
What Democrats really want is what they're saying, right, Yeah, exactly, Tolliver.
I want to find out what's coming in online, but
I don't want to lose our caller. Ryan here is
calling in from Salt Lake City, who is a government employee. Ryan,
tell us how this is affecting you.
Speaker 17 (21:55):
Hi, thanks for having me. So, I think one thing
that the general public doesn't understand, and I can't speak
for other agencies. I know the agency I work for
at least, and I have worked for more than one.
But during a furlough, we cannot seek outside employment to
(22:18):
basically steer clear of any conflicts of interest, So I
can't just go get another job in the meantime.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
So what do you do whether we have enough money
to live on?
Speaker 17 (22:37):
I think it's a great question. Fortunately, I'm not paycheck
to paycheck, like well some of my own co workers
who were also held exempt from the furlough. And it's
a public facing operation. So operations are there are no operations.
(22:59):
Stores are closed, but they're still being forced to go
in every day and do nothing.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
M Ryan, let me ask you one more thing to
you do you call your congressman in the moment like
this and complain to them and say you've got to
figure this out. I have.
Speaker 17 (23:19):
Not since shut down, but I've oken up on a
number of issues actually throughout the year, and I think
it's just I think we've all come to accept that
our elected officials are not really speaking for those they represent,
(23:40):
so in many ways, a wasted effort.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, Ryan, I appreciate the call, Thank you so much.
And Ray Suarez. There is a deadline coming up, I
think this week for a lot of federal employees, and
then next week on October fifteenth, the troops would miss
a paycheck if the shut down continues. Are those deadlines
do you think important enough that maybe there will be
(24:05):
some action before then.
Speaker 8 (24:08):
I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that
an exception will be made for the troops because they
are a very politically sensitive part of our national workforce,
and you know, everybody wants to wrap themselves in the
flag on this one, so you might get some widespread
(24:30):
agreement about continuing to pay the troops. But air traffic controllers,
curators at the Smithsonian Park, rangers, people testing water samples
in the upwaters of the Missouri River, you know those people.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I don't know, Teliver, Yeah, Ray, I had a question.
So a lot of our listeners are emailing about ICE
and about asking if the shut down affects, you know,
ICE enforcement.
Speaker 8 (25:00):
I don't believe it does, and I would be very
surprised if any paychecks aren't going out to them while
they are deployed in the streets of American cities. Certainly
their gas is getting paid for, And.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah, I believe I read that they are considered essential
even during a shutdown, So I.
Speaker 8 (25:24):
Would have been shocked if any halt or slowing down
of those operations would happen during the shutdown.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, Lillian is calling in from Tampa, Florida. Lillian, go
ahead with your thoughts. How is the shutdown affecting you?
Speaker 11 (25:40):
It's affecting me because I'm worried. The budget bills already
affected me. I've lost sixty dollars in food stamps, and
I'm not sure that the people who process those will
be able to do that. Next month, I receive Medicare
(26:05):
and Medicaid, I'm not sure those will be processed. I'm
on Social Security because I'm a retire e. I'm not
sure those will be processed. So I'm already having trouble
just paying rents and utilities and getting food in my house.
And the longer this goes on and the less services
that may be provided just have me not panicked yet
(26:31):
but on the verge of panic. And there is no
middle here. We're either too port to manage this or
well enough off that they don't give a damn. Sorry,
but that's just how I feel at this point.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Yeah, you feel that people are not thinking about people
in your income level as we go through this experience.
Speaker 11 (26:54):
No, because they don't experience it. I just wish they'd
live thirty days on our income and they would understand
how devastating this can be. And I won't call my
congressman because he's a Republican. I know he doesn't care.
(27:14):
And if it was a Democrat, I would call and
say stick with it, because this isn't the Democrat. The
Republicans have the House, they have Congress, the Senate, they
have the presidency. How they can blame the party, the
minority party is beyond me, and how people don't see
(27:35):
that is also beyond me. I'm just totally disgusted.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
And Verian, yeah, thank you so much. And we're thinking
of you as this goes on, Candy crole your thoughts,
just as we hear that really real story from Lilian
about how this is affecting.
Speaker 9 (27:53):
Her, right, because that's the problem is that people who
can at least afford it, that's where the most impact is, right,
And so what you're going to see is and I
will say Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security payments all
should go out. I don't if that helps her at all.
It becives you're a little hope those things should still
go out. So but the wik program, you know, food
(28:15):
food stamps, things like that, I think there are you know,
those things are affected. Housing what doesn't stop slows down,
and slowing down when you are living not just paycheck
to paycheck, but day to day is absolutely devastating. And
(28:35):
so it's always the people who can least afford it
that feel the very first impact. And then and then
it trickles out because what happens is that the people
who have been being paid because they're government workers, or
they're getting they're in the wik program or one of
the snap, one of the food programs. UH, they're no
(28:55):
longer buying things. So who does that affect? That affects
the small store at the end of the red or
the big store. So eventually it spreads into businesses. But
right now, the people who are feeling it within the
first week are the people who can at least afford.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It, right and Ray, there was a redfinn Ipso survey
that found seventeen percent of Americans are delaying a major
purchase because of the shutdown, in seven percent are canceling
a major purchase. So it is already having larger economic effects.
Speaker 8 (29:26):
Especially in a region like this one where not only
people who directly work for the federal government, as we
heard from one of your callers, there are vendors, there
are contractors, There are firms that do work for the
federal government that know they're not going to get paid.
Restaurants and hotels are already seeing a drop off in business.
(29:46):
It's going to spread its tendrils out gradually as it
drags on and affect a lot of businesses.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Well Tolliver. Before President Trump's first term, the longest shutdown
ever was under President Clinton. That to twenty one days.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Yeah, here's Clinton back in January of nineteen ninety six,
just three days before that shutdown ended.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
This is not how a great country behaves. And as
I have said for months and months and every day
since this shutdown occurred, this is not how to balance
the budget. It is not influencing our talks. We ought
to reopen the government.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Interesting to hear him say that it's not influencing our talks,
like all that negotiating tactic is for nothing.
Speaker 18 (30:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Yeah, we will.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Have more of your calls coming up on the middle.
This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. In this hour,
we're asking you how the government shutdown is affecting you.
You can call us at eight four four four Middle.
That's eight four four four six four three three five
three again eight four four four six four three three
five three, or you can reach out to us at
Listen to the Middle dot com. I am joined by
(30:57):
journalists and author Ray Suarez and former CNN Chief plitical
correspondent Candy Crowley. Let me get another call in here.
Robert is in Boise, Idaho. Robert, go ahead with your thoughts.
How is the government shutdown affecting you?
Speaker 5 (31:10):
Well, I'm lucky because I work, I am not on
Social Security. But how it's affecting me is I have
I have a husband who is in federal prison, and
they are not getting any contact whatsoever like males. You know,
(31:32):
male's being delivered, but male is not being presented to
the prisoners. You know, I'm lucky because I know where
my spouse is. However, you were talking earlier about the
people who've been arrested by eyes and if they're trying
to reach out to somebody where they don't know where
(31:53):
they're at and they can't get mail, that's that's how
it's that's affecting a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Pull how long do you think that it will go on?
Speaker 9 (32:04):
Are you?
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Are you thinking it's going to last for a while
or this will be over soon.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
I'm tessimistic. I'd like, you know, i'd like to say
it would end in a couple of weeks. I you know,
if this is anything like other countries where you know,
things have been you know, shut down, like France and
other countries, this could take months.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Robert, thank you for that call, Candy Crawley. That's one
I wasn't thinking of, but it's a good point. You know,
when you have to interact with it, with any government
agency or service, it can be a problem when there's
a shutdown.
Speaker 10 (32:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (32:40):
Absolutely, And again, any any kind of service is going
to be slower because a lot of the federal I'm
assuming this is a federal prison. He's talking about anything
that you know, the I R. S or the Agriculture Department,
any sort of service there. If these are non essential wors,
they're not coming into work now. So whatever it is
(33:03):
you're getting from the government is going to be slower,
whether it's the mail obviously the post office is sort
of one of those hybrid places. But you know, I'm
not exactly sure what the problem is in the prisons,
but I'm assuming if it's a federal prison that there
are certain people considered non essential. We'd love to know
who they are. But nonetheless, it is across the board
(33:26):
going to affect things, and I just think it takes
a while for people to know. If you haven't filed
your income tax yet, half the I R S is
gone at this point, so you've got what another week
left to file if you're late, and you should file
on time, and then that would be a problem. But nonetheless,
if you go to the I R S for help,
(33:47):
better luck on that. So there's lots of things and
programs that the federal government does and can no longer
deliver on, at least in a speedy fashion.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, Mary is calling in from Parksville, Tennis. See Mary,
how is the government shut down affecting you?
Speaker 19 (34:04):
Well, personally, not y.
Speaker 10 (34:08):
Some of my coworkers were for for a load, but
I was not for a load because my project is
not funded through the appropriations.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
You work for.
Speaker 19 (34:23):
No, I don't work for the government. I am a
field interviewer for I do social science research and our
projects are funded by the government. My project is not
funded through the through the appropriations UH process, So my
project is still funded that some of my co workers
(34:46):
have been for a load they got a stoft work order.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Mhm uh. And what are your concerns? Are you worried
that that it could end up affecting you soon and
you're just not yet affected?
Speaker 8 (35:00):
Well?
Speaker 19 (35:02):
Yeah, for me, my main concern is I was cut
off Medicaid when my son turned nineteen earlier this year,
because he was the reason why I qualified. In Tennessee,
they didn't expand medicaid, so there's no medicaid for anyone,
doesn't matter how low their income.
Speaker 10 (35:22):
Is, if they don't have someone that.
Speaker 19 (35:26):
They care for. So I'm cut off. Shortly after I
got cut or shortly before I got cut off, I
learned I had a too. I have a tu mark
that needs to c surgery. So I'm waiting until next year,
twenty twenty six, when my son will not be my
tax dependent anymore, and when I'm waiting for November when
(35:50):
the ACA opens back up. But if they, if they,
if the Democrats don't stand their ground, if they back down,
or if the Republicans don't make a compromise, then and
the Scepties go away, I might not get health care
(36:10):
and might not be able to get certainty that I need.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Yeah, Mary, thank you. I appreciate your call, and Rey Souarez,
there are more than twenty million people who are on
this on these Obamacare plans where the subsidies would expire
within a matter of weeks.
Speaker 8 (36:31):
Jeremy Less talked about is the fact that if this does,
if the subsidies from the Affordable Care Act do go away,
Red states are going to be hit harder than Blue
states because those states more generally failed to expand Medicare
(36:52):
and Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act, pushing more people
into the ACA marketplace, And if those subsidies go away,
you're just going to have a huge new number of
people with no access to healthcare at all. The kind
of people that will lose their care in red states
(37:17):
are on Medicare and Medicaid in Blue states because they're
governors and their legislators agreed to extend coverage under the
Affordable Care Act. So it's not a rain that falls
equally on everybody's house, let's put it that way.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Well, and when you hear these callers that have been
calling in that are really desperate for the services that
they get from the government, whether it's a subsidy for
healthcare or whether it's food stamps or what have you.
It makes you understand why even Marjorie Taylor Green, a
very very conservative member of Congress, Candy came out and said,
(37:57):
it's the Republicans who need to open the government. She
is taught talking to people who are worried about the
healthcare premium issue that Ray was just mentioning, and she's
she's saying, don't blame the Democrats, like, we need to
deal with this healthcare issue.
Speaker 9 (38:12):
Right, including members of her family that are being affected.
They've already gotten their notice of how much their Obamacare
costs are going to go up. It is a wonder
to me because I feel as though the Democrats have
actually done Republicans of favor. They just kind of need
to say yes, right, because this is the train is
(38:34):
coming down that track. You hear this in a lot
of on the streets, but you hear this from the
caller just heard, is that I'm about to lose my healthcare.
A lot of people twenty million, as you say, or
on Obamacare who suddenly are seeing sometimes two and three
hundred percent increases or will see them, and Democrats have gone, WHOA,
(38:55):
we can't do this, And you know, Republicans want to
say yes at this point, but it's because comes such
a power struggle about well, we'll talk about it after
you open the government. And I just think they're politically speaking,
this has been a gift from Democrats that Republicans either
don't see or don't want to see. But I do
(39:17):
think it's an opportunity for them to undo or to
not get into some of the damage that would be
done if these Obamacare subsidies go away.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Tolliver, what else is coming in online?
Speaker 16 (39:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Candice and Casey listening from caseu Are says, as much
as I disagree with the government shut down, I also
disagree that the pandemic era subsidies for private insurance plans
should continue. She thinks we need to move to single payer.
And then Bob and Tallahassee says, what's the possibility that
the administration could differentiate between Democrat and Republican voters then
(39:50):
decide on that basis who to pay and who not
to pay, which I thought was kind of an interesting question.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, that is an interesting question, Ray, I mean, could
they even do that if they I wanted to say,
we're just gonna pay that.
Speaker 8 (40:01):
Well, the President is mused about it, he's talking about
cutting certain programs and certain employees from the federal government,
or making sure that certain employees and departments don't get
paid when the shutdown is over. He thinks, or at
least is pretending to think, that there's a surgical way
(40:24):
to do that. I would I would strenuously disagree. There
is no way to do that. And this is going
to end up hurting a lot more people than he
If he thinks he can just do this in a way,
a binary way, and hurt Democrats and not Republicans, he's
really misreading the situation getting bad advice.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Tory is calling in from Fort Collins, Colorado. Tory, go ahead,
How is the government shutdown affecting you?
Speaker 18 (40:55):
Hi? I wanted to talk about kind of a niche
issue that the government shutdown is having an effect on.
There's about two hundred and fifty scientific observers that are
contracted and work for NOAH and the National Marine Fishery Service.
They are out on boats in the Bearing Sea taking
(41:18):
data every day. But they're advisors and basically anyone on
land who is in charge of that data and the
observers they're furloughed, So these people are out at sea
without their advisors giving them information.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Wow, are you part of that group? Do you do
you have connections there?
Speaker 8 (41:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 18 (41:43):
I was a scientific observer and so I have a
lot of friends who are at sea right now or
who just got back from being at sea to very
strange time.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, I bet are they worried about their own safety?
Speaker 18 (42:00):
I don't think it's safety wise. There are the contract
companies that the government uses to hire observers. We do
have a few coordinators that do their best to take
care of the observers, and they will stare in contact
with the boats themselves. But in terms of the fishing
data which are used to set all those fishing quotas
(42:22):
for salmon, halibit, anything that's fish for any questions with
the data or any problem they have with the boat
people will have to wait until they get back to land,
and it could be months before they're able to sort
of debrief this with a government official.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Yeah, very interesting, Thank you Tory for that. I'm going
to just go to you Rey for a second here,
because what this reminds me of is in my history
in public broadcasting, if you're working at like the network
like NPR or PBS, and you're out in the field
somewhere very far from the home base and something goes wrong,
They've got the resources to deal with you. But if
you're working for like a local station and you're out
(43:01):
and covering a hurricane or something like that, if something
goes wrong, they're not going to be able to help you.
I feel for these people in the Bearing Sea, because
that's got to be the last thing on Congress's mind
about how this shutdown is affecting people.
Speaker 8 (43:14):
And the caller called it very niche. But there are
thousands of jobs working for the federal government. Then a
lot of people wouldn't even realize is a job, and
they're all across farming and manufacturing and the environment.
Speaker 11 (43:33):
It is.
Speaker 8 (43:35):
You know, everybody has things that they wish the government
didn't do, but then there's government workers that they like.
And this is one of those things where you put
it to people that they say, well, you know, we
can probably farm that work out. But if you are
involved in the very serious and large fisheries industry in
(43:56):
Alaska and something is throwing a monkey wrench into the works,
it's a perfect example of how all the changes is
whose ox is being gored.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Jamie is calling in from West Milton, Pennsylvania. Hi, Jamie,
how's the shutdown affecting you?
Speaker 15 (44:14):
So the shutdown is not affecting me directly, it is
affecting a family member in a nursing home in another state.
And the longer this because on the bigger the concern
gets that and what Trump is proposing with cuts to
(44:35):
Medicaid and then Medicare. Of course, although most people don't
even realize Medicare is going to be hit so hard.
I am waiting to see how this plays out. I
live in income based housing for seniors. There are people
here who definitely are being impacted. But I want to
(44:59):
tell you that I support I am sorry that so
many Americans are being adversely affected by the shutdown. However,
I support the shutdown because they're for two reasons. The
Republicans are holding Democrats responsible when they know for a
(45:22):
fact that they can use what they call the nuclear option,
which has been used in the past to.
Speaker 16 (45:31):
Bring the.
Speaker 15 (45:33):
Right to bring everybody back on board, but they're not
doing it. They're pointing out how horrible the Democrats are.
They're making a spectacle of it. They're blaming everybody for
what they wouldn't do. They went on vacation for a
week before when discussions were could have happened. They went
(45:53):
on vacation again, short plan on vacation even before the
shutdown was going to happen. None of them are serious
about this, none of them. They're looking to blame us
and it's all a cover up.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Well, let me ask Candy Crowley about that main point, Jamie,
because I'm interested in that too, which is, couldn't they
change the rules they did it for how many votes
you need to get a Supreme Court nominee through? Couldn't
the Republicans to say, Okay, we're going to just allow
fifty votes now from now fifty one votes to get
to get the government reopened.
Speaker 9 (46:25):
My honest answer is I'm not sure, except for they
could pretty much do anything. I think the question that
always stops one side or the other from declaring the
nuclear option is they're not always going to be in control.
So once they use nuclear option, what keeps the other
side from using that when they get back in power.
(46:46):
So there's been they've been fairly cautious about it, and
this may be one of those things that they are
cautious about. But I don't know that the ins and
outs about whether they could just say, yeah, we don't
need sixty votes, we only need fifty.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Yeah, we have come to the end of the hour. Ray,
I'll just give you the last word here. As we've
heard this hour. There are at least two other huge
stories going on right now, the ceasefire and hostage release
still in the Middle East, President Trump sending the National
Guard troops to multiple American cities against the wishes of
local officials. Do you see all these things as connected
(47:21):
in any way.
Speaker 8 (47:23):
Yes, they are part of a presidential assertion of unprecedented power.
Donald Trump wants to show that he is the ruler
of the United States, that he has the kind of
power that allows him to overrule governors and send National
(47:43):
Guards members from other states, from other jurisdictions into their
states over their objections. A big, big deal. And as
far as the Middle East peace goes, you would think
he wouldn't want I want to crowd out the picture
that he'd want to the chance for a victory. Lap Uh.
(48:05):
This is for a guy who's very, very obsessed with
coverage and the optics of problems. You'd think that this
would be more important to him.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Well. A great note to end On journalist Ray Suarez,
host of the PBS series Wisdom Keepers, and former CNN
political correspondent Candy Crowley. Thanks so much to both of
you for being here.
Speaker 8 (48:26):
Thank you, Thanks a lot, and.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. There are extra
episodes of our One Thing Trump Did podcast every week
on the Middle podcast feed, and next week we'll be
back here joined by astrophysicist Neil de grass Tyson, taking
your calls about the role of science in the public life,
which is certainly top of mind right now after big
cuts to scientific research funding by the federal government.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
You can reach us at eight four four four Middle
that's eight four four four sixty four three three five three,
or you can reach out it listen to the Middle
dot com, where you can also sign up for our
free weekly newsletter.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
I like how you really just enunciate? Listen to the
Middle dot com.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
The Middle is brought to you by Longnick Media, distributed
by Illinois Public Media and or Bandon Illinois and produced
by Harrison Patino, Danny, Alexander Samburmstas, John barth, Anakadeshler, and
Brandon Condritz. Our technical director is Steve Mork. Thanks to
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of public radio stations making it possible for people across
the country to listen to the Middle I'm Jeremy Hobson,
and I will talk to you next week.
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