August 25, 2025 • 46 mins
We heart Batsheva Haart, and here's why. The content creator/trendsetter opens up about the perks and pitfalls of life in the public eye.
She'll be the first to tell you about her divorce, her dating record, and how she ditched her unorthodox life without looking back.
Plus- the NYC girl has advice for single ladies looking for love, find out if you are mingling in the wrong city...and why it's taken 90 plus dates for her to figure out what she wants in a guy.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey guys, and welcome back to another week of Casual Chaos.
This week, I have a very exciting guest bought Cheva Hart.
Welcome to Casual Chaos.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Thank you, thank you so much for having me. I'm
so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I'm so excited for you to be here. I feel
like you have such an interesting life and I cannot
wait to dive into it. Let's get into it. So
you're based in Miami, but you've been all over the map.
I feel like you're living your best life right now.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And yeah, I'm trying my best. So it's in Europe
for a month. I do like I'm a snowbird at
thirty two, you know, I do Miami winter, New York summer.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
So okay, so you're back in a minute. Yeah, okay.
Do you have a place in New York and then
a place in my I pay.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Rent in Miami, so I'm a Florida resident taxes. And
then when I'm in New York, I stayed by my mom,
so I have like a room there with all of
my like leave a set of clothing and skincare makeup,
so it feels like my own little apartment, which is nice.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
That's what I that's what I do again my dad. Yeah,
because my dad lives in the Bahamas. Okay, so I
leave like a set of stuff there so I don't
constantly need to bring it back and forth exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Whenever I like get at Newburgh to the airport, when
I'm leaving Miami to New York, They're all like, no luggage.
I was like, no, just my handbag, just bringing myself.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, no, I love that. Easy travel, easy travel. What
are the odds?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
And now they look at me and they're like, you
don't look like someone who doesn't bring the leggage. And
I was like, you don't know what I have in
New York, but thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So how many siblings do you have?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I have three younger siblings okay, all girls, oldest. I
have one sister and two brothers.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Oh I love that. Yeah, so it's two and two,
two and two. I love that. I always said, if
I you know, I don't think I'm going to get
to four kids. I'm one of four. I have four sisters,
and I am forever grateful for my sisters. They're you're
built in best friends. But it's a lot. It is
a lot on the parents, a lot on my mom.
It just it's a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
And how old was your mom when she had you?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
When my mom, when my mom had me, she was
twenty yeah nine, okay, because she got married at twenty eight. Okay.
My dad was thirty thirty one okay, yeah, my.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Mom was twenty one, so she was like a baby
when she Wow. I always think that because I'm like
so close in age with my mom that I'm like,
because your mom now she's fifty four, okay, but yeah,
mom's fifty three, okay, okay, it makes sense with three ages.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeah, okay, Wow, that's super young. That reminds you kind
of like of my grandparents. But yeah, they did it
even younger, because in Italy it was crazy. My dad's
mom got married at thirteen. Yeah, thirteen, thirteen or fourteen.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I got married at nineteen, So I think that's really
I'm talkingry, but I think we got into all of
that that thirteen.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Oh my god's crazy. How just like the times have evolved.
I feel like now people are like, get married in
your thirties for a minute, have kids in like your
mid thirties. Like it's just so much more relaxed. Even
in Italy, like marriage there is happening so much later,
which is crazy because it used to happen so young, right,
(03:08):
So just like the transformation lived so.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Long now, so it makes sense that it's getting pushed off.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
A little bit. No, take care of your hope. Yeah.
So you had careers in both cities, Miami and New York.
How do you feel like they differ?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I think so I do social media, so like I
can work remotely as long as I have my phone
or a camera, and I would say New York they
are like so many more events. I was like constantly
I was going to like two to three events a night,
and then in Miami, I feel like it's way more
spread out, Like there are events, but to me they
feel a little more special because it's not like back
to back to back.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
They feel like New York events every night every night.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, and I love that. And then I was like, okay,
like I'm ready for a change of pace. So it's
nice when I'm back here, I get to like experience
it a little bit more. But then when I go
back to Miami, it's like a little more zen and chill.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah. So you've been super open on your social media, Yeah,
and on your podcast Heart to heart about dating in
both cities, So give us a rundown Miami first, New York.
What is your opinion?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, okay, well New York there are way more men,
Like there's so many men, So I would say, like
the nice part about that is like I never, like,
you know how sometimes you can like date within a
friend group, Like I never had that experience because there's
just so many friend groups. So I never had like
any crossover that I had to worry about or like
fear if like you're going on a date somewhere that
(04:29):
you're going to like maybe bump into someone that you've
also dated, whereas in Miami it's like super small. In
my opinion, like the dating world is very like ancestual,
not like in the family thing, but more just like
I went on a date, probably my friend went on
a date with him, or I dated his friend.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Everyone knows everyone.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Everyone knows everyone if you're running in the same circles.
But I will say they're like way more like entrepreneurs.
Living in Miami. There's more people who have a similar
lifestyle to me where they're like Miami New York or
they work remotely, So I think that aspect I really
like whereas New York is very like finance in the office,
you don't have as much flexibility, so I think like
(05:10):
both places have their perks. But I did just download
hinge like last week. I haven't been on the apps
in forever, and I like, in Miami, I don't touch it,
like it doesn't it's not you get out there. But
in New York I was like whoa, yeah, like where
are you men from? There must have been like a
breakup season in the past two months because these are all.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Everyone loves to break up before the summer.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I get it, and thank you.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
No. I know a couple of my girlfriends, you know,
they're on the dating apps, and I feel like it's
fun to just kind of download it and see what's
out there, but then to actually execute it is a
whole nother thing.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Oh for sure. Like that's why I was so oftome,
like I'm over them. And I do think like I
had a phase where I called it like my hinge
Hoo phase, and I just like went on a million
dates with people because I was like newly single and
I'm like, let me live my life, when.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Me meet ever you want.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
It was so good and I wasn't like in this.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Innocent there in dates, you're it's almost like you're speed dating.
You're just getting to know the person and seeing if
there's a connection exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And I was just like loving meeting new people. I
was like very emotionally unavailable, so it was like a
fun experience. And now that I'm more intentional about it,
I'm like, okay, Like do I want to spend my
nay with you?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I started asking for FaceTime check ins before. That's actually
smart to know if they're catfish or not. Yeah, yeah,
or if they're just weird or like if they say
something off putting in the first five minutes, I'm like,
I'm good, Yeah, we don't need I'm actually busy on
that day, so I won't be able to make it.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Well, let's be in touch. That's honestly good. That's a
good safety thing that you're doing. Which city do you
think is the easiest to date in or easier to
date in New York? New York there's just more people.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah, so like your chances of connecting with someone are easier.
I will say I think Miami is a little more social,
Like meeting people out is a little easier because the
crowds are smaller, and I feel like people are traveling
there or their transplants, so everyone's just more open to
talking as opposed to New York. I feel like people
are like in their circle in their head, they're not
(07:22):
really looking to branch out.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
So give me some of your green flags and red flags.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
For men, Okay, good sense of humor, green flag makes
a plan follows through love that you know, pre forty
eight hour mark. That's that's a muss. Like if you
want to text me the morning of like, oh, this
is what we're doing, like, that doesn't really work for
me because in my head, like you're not showing up
(07:48):
and I'm busy, so plan ahead. Sense of humor kind hmmm, ambitious.
Like I always ask guys are you happy with what
you're doing? Like, and a lot of times I get no,
But it's a paycheck, and I'm like, that's not.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Gonna work for me.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, dreamer, all those things are.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
I think that's the biggest turn on for a guy.
Is there work ethic and ambition. Yeah, if my guy
doesn't have work ethic or ambition, like I, I can't
relate to No, I can't either, And I just you
have to have drive for yourself and also have that
ambition to like want to strive and have you know,
(08:31):
a healthy family and work for your family and support
your family. And I think that's just kind of how
I grew up, so seeing that visually and also how
I am. I want my man to meet me where
I'm at or exceed work exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, Like if you're less on, that's just not it's
not gonna work. And that's why when it's like, oh yeah,
it's like a good paycheck, like maybe down like no
like find with yeah, do it now? Yeah, like what
are you what are we waiting for? Like you have
no responsibilities?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
This is the time exactly. And then some of your
red flags.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Okay, red flags like does respectful or rude, no emotional
intelligence like if you're can have like a real conversation
with me, or like you're very evasive, avoidant personalities. I
don't like people who are late, so that would bother
(09:24):
me because I'm such an on time person, so I
don't think I could handle someone who's like a little
it is fine, but like perpetual. Yeah, like some of
my like my best friends, a lot of them are
super late. Yeah, like they're my friends and I could
like and it's okay, yeah, but to live with someone
like that that would be really hard for me.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah, So definitely those things. So what do you look
for in a man? What do I look for.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Now? I'm looking for someone who wants to build with
me and lettle down and make a family and all
those things. So like a little bit past the stage
of like figuring themselves out, like I want them to
have figured out also, like hopefully you have some relationship
history that you've like figured it out with someone else
how to show up in a relationship, So because I've
already done that stuff, So I'm like, I really hope
(10:10):
someone else trained you and then I can reap those
benefits because I trained someone else, Like they get to
reap the benefits of whoever I dated. So that's like
my ideal, Like they've experienced relationship before at least a year,
and that's like my minimum.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, well, I mean, because you don't want to go
through those experience all over.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, And I get it, like everyone has a learning
curve in a relationship, like how to be mindful of
another person's time or think about their feelings.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
You're obviously going to learn something about a new person
going to a new relationship. But at least if you've
had some prior experiences, you know, the bare minimum. Okay,
don't do this to a woman.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Maybe, yeah, maybe do this.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah, just little things. I totally get that.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, knows how to communicate, like share your feelings with
me or therapist.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I mean communication is so key in that relationship. Communication
and trust. If you don't have those two things in
a relationship, it's pretty hard to build a stable and
healthy one.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah, And I'm like so blunt with like how I'm feeling,
So I need someone who can like match me. They
don't have to be as blunt as I am, but
at least like be able to like share what's going on,
because that's just so natural. I was gonna say, I
feel like we're very similar like that, you just like
speak your mind. I've learned sometimes.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Get in trouble. Yeah, it does.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Now.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I feel like some people respect it. Sometimes people think
I'm too much, and that's fair. Sometimes I think I'm
too much as well. So it's you know, finding your
happy media exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Like we all have things to learn, but that's important
because I feel like, you know, you need to be
able to like meet me there. And also something that's
really important is remote like that they have flexibility, not
one undred percent remote, like I can be a little
okay on that, but I do love my current setup
that I have, and I would love for someone to
be able to travel with me.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And go with you. Yeah, but still works. Yeah, of
course experience life with you a little bit. What kind
of energy or traits do you think women give off
that attract those kinds of men.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I've actually been really working on being more feminine, like
in my feminine energy, because I'm way more like masculine
in terms of like I see a guy that I
think is cute, like I'm gonna go say hi, but which.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Honestly, I feel like so many women don't do that,
and that's also so respected. It's like a new thing
for women, Yeah, because I feel like women were so
scared to go up to men and show that they're interested, yes,
and show that they're interested in men. But I feel
like now women are doing that more so than men
(12:36):
because now the men are scared to Yeah they're women.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
They're such I don't know for allow, but like babies,
I don't know. Whatever you want to leave out, but
like they just like don't have the balls. I don't
know what I'm on saying this podcast, so like they
can't do it you want. I feel like that, But
I will say, like I think there's a medium. Months ago,
(13:01):
my like therapist was like, you don't know how to
be pursued, Like you're way too masculine when it comes
to dating and the tape of guy you want to
be with like is going to have those trades. So
like let's like just like try to like let people
come to you a little bit more, but like keep
your energy open. So I think that there's like a
balance between the two. Like I think making eye contact
(13:21):
with someone smiling like but holding their smile and their
gaze let them know like you have a green light,
come talk to me. I'm interested. Little hints like waving
at them, just like showing your interest with And I
also don't think there's anything wrong with walking. Like I've
walked up to men all the time with like my
number on a napkin and like walked away and like
(13:43):
wrote single question mark and then like I've gotten dates
like that, I've sent cookies to guys. I've like, yeah,
I've dropped my number whenever I can. I've had friends
walk over, so I don't mind those things. But I
think there's like a balance that like you can give
the guy the green light and then let him yeah,
and then like let him follow through a little bit.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah. I agree. I am in a relationship now. But
for my single girls out there, what's the biggest excuse
you've heard from a guy who didn't want to commit? Oh?
All the excuses, Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I want to preface this by saying that I do
think that there is something about you that you need
to look at if you if you keep on attracting
unavailable men, like for the past I now a year
and a half, I like would get to the stage
I had like three different guys that I was interested in,
and then it would get to the like are we
dating or not moment, and I would get the same
(14:41):
like I actually realize that I'm not ready for anything,
and like, and they're always very respectful, like no, I've
never been like let on in any way. And I
do think that there are a lot of men out
there that will just like be with a girl until
she asks for something more. And these guys were just like,
we know where this is heading and we don't think
we can get there.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Well, I think in general, if you are with a
mature girl, m Okay, you meet, you're out, you go home.
After doing that so many times, it comes to a
point where you're like, okay, what are we doing? Yeah,
and what the next step would be to like to
seriously start talking, going on dates and really building a
(15:22):
genuine connection. But that's the next step, right if the
if the guy's not ready for that, then you know,
it's a constant cycle of just receiving this exactly. You're
kind of let down in a way. You know. Each
time that that happened.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Oh, for sure, I was very like, but after it
happened to me like three times in a row, I
was like, Okay, I need to look internally because like
obviously I'm I think, like you know, it goes both ways,
but I do think women sometimes like need to look internally.
It's like, Okay, what am I putting out there? That's
letting that I keep on attracting these guys because I
would describe them as like forward facing, want a relationship
(15:59):
with them when it comes down to it, aren't ready
to take the next step. And then I went to therapy,
big advocate for your mental health everyone. And I realized
that like I had like some trauma from my divorce
that I was so scared of like actually letting myself
care for someone because I was scared of getting hurt.
(16:19):
And once I work through that, like I the past,
like two guys I've like been a little interested in
have been like the opposite. They're like, no, like let's
like continue this, and I'm like, I don't know, like
let's take it slow, let me take it, let me yeah, exactly.
So I feel like I have changed, Like the type
of guys that I'm just naturally attracting now are like
(16:40):
way more emotion even though they're like younger than some
of the other guys. It doesn't really matter. It's just
like what are what are energy? Are you putting out?
So I think, women, do you need to like energy?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Did you switch? I think I feel like a lot
of my friends are in this position. So I'm going
to tell them to come listen, yeah to this podcast.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Definitely come listen.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I think they're, you know, because they're ready for relationships.
But the guys that they're gravitating towards obviously have all
of the physical attributes. They're hot, they're outgoing, you know,
they you know, they're a good time. But then when
it comes down to the relationship aspect, they're too immature, right,
and they are not ready for it. They rather instead
(17:20):
of having this girl that's right in front of them
that's ready for a relationship and ready for the next step,
they rather go.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah, someone new to the young end.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, they rather go to like, yeah, the girls that
just turn twenty one and have a good time. So
I feel like, especially in the bar scene down at
the Jersey Shore, it's summer. You're getting a lot of
these good looking guys, but it's also summer. They want
to have fun. They're not looking for a relationship. But
how would you say you switched that to gravitate more
(17:52):
towards men that we're ready versus not ready.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I think that it's like in the beginning, like the
first second date moment, it's like, how are they showing
up for you? Instead of like, yes, maybe they're attractive,
they're taking you to a nice dinner. They're like saying like, oh,
we you know, like when guys do that, they like
future you when you're like this is our first day,
Like I don't believe you. Yeah, so I've got I
think guys who do that too much are like unavailable,
(18:18):
and they're just because otherwise, someone who's like really intentional
about getting to know you isn't going to put that
label like say a wee, or we should do this,
like you know, I'm going to take you to my
hometown and show you this place. Like they're not going
to do that because that seems way too intense for
them because they know they'll follow through. So I think
like not love bombing, but like a little love bomby,
(18:38):
like if they're coming on really strong, like a lot
of times it's a game for them and it's exciting
and they love the chase, but then they don't love
the like consistent showing up for you. So I think
like that's one thing. Like I feel like your listeners
are probably like in their twenties. Like if you do
hook up with someone and have a sleepover, like are
they staying over and having coffee with you in the morning,
(19:00):
or are they like rushing out like someone who wants
to get to know you and spend time with you,
like unless they have a meeting, like they want to
see you in the daylight and have coffy with you
in the morning and not be like that was fun,
like I'll you know, call you even though they're gonna
ask you on another date. It's just like that energy
of like building more interests with you. So I think
(19:21):
it's like those first like I don't know, one to
three dates. How you see are they showing up for
you in that way that feels like more consistent, maybe
not as passionate but real because I think they'll like
excitement and like the stomach flips. That's fun, but it's
not longevity.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yeah, it's not long lasting exactly a lot of people
know you from the Netflix show My Unorthodox Life that
showed a really personal and powerful part of your story.
How was that when your family's journey was out of
that show?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, I mean I know that you can relate, like
it's a lot to share so much.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I will see how many seasons was it too? Okay?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
So I mean it's like filmed like a year and
it comes out a year later, So I think, like you're.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Row so much within that year. I feel like even now,
my I have a new show on Bravo that just
came out this year, Next Gen m I see, and
we filmed this a year ago, so it's crazy just
to see yourself a year ago and where you are
now and you're like, wow, I really grew so much
within this year exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
And also like what maybe you were like was really
sensitive to you at that time, Like it's been so
long you don't feel the same emotion. So I think
that's nice. Like I think being able to like be
mentally prepared for it to be shared and not to
feel as like triggered in whatever is happening makes a
big difference. But it was really wonderful, Like I love
being able to work with my family and let's spend
(20:46):
the time doing that with them. And also like I
feel like my family story is so empowering and it's
been nice to share and like really help other people
like break out of their communities or find their happiness,
know that they can dream and live new lives and
like still be you know, And how was that first
step breaking out of the community. So my mom was
(21:07):
the one who like pioneered it all, and then I
was already married at the time, so I think my
like leaving the community was a little more gradual because
I did it with my ex husband, so like everything
was like what do we want to do together? But
I wouldn't have like been like I wouldn't be sitting
here with you if my mom hadn't taken those steps
to leave because I was brought up in such like
(21:29):
a tiny little bubble of a community. I didn't even
really have like access or knowledge of how to like
live in the regular secular world.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Always out there. Yeah, and so when your dad is
he was did he support your mom leaving the community?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I would say, I mean my parents got divorced. Yeah,
so but he's remarried now. I love his wife.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Is he in the community still.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, not as like intense, he's more like modern Orthodox now.
But he's always been like super supportive of like family,
like we would do like Thanksgiving together and holidays. Like
my parents have like the ideal, in my opinion, divorce
situation because they get along really well.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
My parents have that it's relationship. It's so much better
for the kids. It also transition and it's easy, it's easier,
I think.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, Like my parents were always like family first. We
want our kids to have their both their parents and
their lives and to not have to choose sides and
like I really admire them for that because I'm sure
and like your parents as well, Like I can't imagine
it's easy, but like their priority was always us, and
I've been really thankful.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, that's amazing. And what ways did your mom explain
your religion to you growing up?
Speaker 2 (22:40):
I mean, like religion was just like how it was,
how it was brought into the world, so I didn't
really know anything else. It was just like, this is
how we.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Live our lives.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
This is what you're supposed to do. You follow this
guidebook and these laws, and if you don't, then you're bad.
So when my mom kind of like flip the switch
essentially and was like, no, I don't believe that anymore,
it definitely took me time to.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Like your mom grow up in the Orthodox religion as well.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah, so my mom.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Just kind of came to the conclusion.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
That she, yeah, she like grew up like less religious
when she was like in her early early like childhood,
like pre sixth grade maybe, so like maybe she had
a taste of it, but she didn't really know anything.
Like she was as any of her adult years. She
was very much in the religious world, and she just
started like educating herself with like books and I guess
(23:32):
TV and things like that, and that's how she learned
a little bit enough for her to like feel confident
to leave.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
But did she get married at a young age as well?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, my mom got married at nineteen. My like, my
sister is twenty five, and she's like the first like
girl out of like I don't know how many generations
to not be a teenage bride because I got married
in nineteen, My mom got married in nineteen. My grandmother
I think got married at like seventeen, and I don't know,
I'm sure earlier before then.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
So it's really crazy. So she didn't put that much
pressure on you.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
She kind of just it was like kind of, you know,
what was expected. It was like the next you graduate
high school, like you get married. So it wasn't really
like I didn't feel like there was any other options.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
It was just kind of what you what you do? Yeah, exactly. Wow.
So how did they experience shape the way you approach life,
love and your independence today?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I feel like I'm on my fourth life now because
I had my like growing up religious life, and then
I had my married life, and then I had my
like post divorce trying to figure out how to be
an adult like in this world. And now I feel
only in the past like month or two, and I
this new independent person who like know who I am,
(24:47):
I know what I want. I feel like I've finally
done all the like healing that I need to do
for a relationship, and now I'm like this, I'm excited
all new things that are happening.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yeah, for you back, now, do you feel like there
are still some parts of the past that influence you today?
Speaker 2 (25:07):
So I don't. I don't keep Shabbat anymore, which is
basically like the day of rest in their Jewish culture,
where growing up I didn't use like any like you.
I mean, you have lights on, but you don't cook,
you don't watch TV, you don't get in a car.
So I don't celebrate Shabbat. But in my I celebrate
my day of rest where you don't post on social
media for Shabbat, And that's like just something that I
(25:30):
feel like is great for my mental health and I
hope to.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Always keep that up.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
So that would be like the only thing that I
technically still celebrate or like integrate into my life beyond.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
That one day of a resell.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, exactly my day of rest. But that's and it's beautiful. Yeah,
that is healthy even for anybody. Yes, exactly, like that
is I do that.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
It's important. You need to do that every once in
a while. It's just good for the it's good for
your mind.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yeah, I'm like, it's I don't think of it as
a religion thing, but it was like influenced by religion,
and like now I'm just very like proud of my
Jewish culture.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Your mom decided to leave the ultra Orthodox community, When
did she decide she wanted to leave? And how has
her life changed since then?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I mean, my mom is like a totally She was
a stay at home mom like when I was growing up,
and then she left when I was like nineteen twenty.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
So right after you got my.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Right up, Yeah, I was kind of like my daughter's married,
my son, my brother was like five at the time.
My son's in school, my youngest is in school, and
she's like I'm forty two years old, Like now what,
Like I'm so young, this whole life ahead of me.
I'm not busy like taking care of my kids.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Get divorced.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
They only got divorced, like I don't know, eight years later,
they just like stayed married legally for my brother's stay. Okay, Okay,
they wanted to wait till he was like a little older.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
They they left the Unity together and married, so.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
No, like my mom left and they were just like married,
but they weren't together.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
It was kind of like they just legally they were.
In my head, they were divorced, but like legally they
didn't get married until right before my mom got remarried,
so they just like waited. It was like all like
the technicalities of doing custody and things like that, so
they just waited. But in my head, my parents split
when I was twenty got so okay, it was like
(27:28):
an earlier on thing. So like my dad has always
like remained religious, and my mom obviously decided she wanted
a different path. So they just like technically were living.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Their own lives but while legally married, which I feel
like a lot of people do, a lot of people do. Yeah,
and so what does your mom's life look like to that?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
And my mom went from being she right when she
left the community, she started a shoe brand called Julia
Hart and it was like a really big success that
she did a collaboration with La Perla, which was a
lingerie brand at the time, and she did a shoe
line for them that was really successful. They hired her
to be the creative director of La Perla and she
(28:07):
did like Ready to Wear, She dressed Kendall Jenner for
the Metala. She like did all those things, and then
she became the CEO of Elite Model World, which was
also like she's my mom's a boss, Like yeah, I
feel like similar to your mom.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Like, so she's very creative.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Very creative, has a super talented, super brilliant and just
like a boss she taught me.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
So now she runs an agency, has an agency.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
And then she also has a shape or a brand
called plus Body by Julia Hart.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah, I love that go off. Yeah, she's a good turn.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
She definitely took a turn. That's why she's my inspiration.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Like say, it's probably so inspirational watching her career and
also accomplish all these things at forty two. Exactly, that
was the start of her career forty two years old,
and she has made it. Like yeah, exactly, that's incredible.
Kudos to your mom.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, I love her. She's like, you can do anything
at any age. You're never too old to dream.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Does she regret leaving the community so late.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
I don't think so. I think like to her it
was like every yeah, like she did it when she
was ready to do it. I feel like that's with
like also relationships, it's like a lot of times you
know you should do it earlier, but like you're not
able to like fully follow through.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
So it makes sense when you do leave and it
all happens. Yeah, it's supposed to. Do you ever feel
pressure from anyone in your extended family to join the
ultra Orthodox community?
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Again, I don't, like, I don't get peer pressure, so
even like family pressure, I'm kind of like I do
my own thing. I think because I had to leave
something and it took so many steps, like within the
religious community, community and my marriage, I'm like, I do
what's best for me. So like no one feels like
I feel like I don't exude energy where you can
like try to change my mind. Yeah, Like I try
(29:53):
to be respectful, and you know, hope they're respectful of
my choices.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
You got married at nineteen years old. When did the
two of you get divorced?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
We got divorced at twenty eight, so we were together
for a long time. Wow, yeah, you recently just got
divorced four years ago. Yeah, almost four years. Yeah, we
met when we were seventeen. We got married at nineteen,
which was like the natural progression of like like saved
ourselves for marriage.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Happened pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yeah, so like he was definitely.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
My Like, so did you date prior or he was
your friend? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, we dated, but like more in secret, because you're
not supposed to have boyfriends, okay, like you're supposed to
save you know, they want to like protect you so
that you don't God forbid have sex before marriage. So
like they tried to. I went to an all girls
high school. I didn't like have my first kiss until
I was seventeen, and like me rebelling out of high
school with like a boy like a family friend, but
(30:45):
like we both saved ourselves for marriage and then.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
But he was your first boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah, I don't even know if I would consider him
a boyfriend, like I consider my first boyfriend, like the
guy I dated after my divorce, I just consider him
my husband. It kind of like feels like it was just.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
But he is like your first person, like.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Also was saying, okay, and then like he was definitely
like my soul like one of my soulmates. Like we
were meant to be together, like, and I feel so
blessed that I experienced a marriage with him. But like
I just think choosing your forever partner at nineteen is
really young. Like we both like grew so much, and
I realized, like I don't want to live this life anymore.
(31:23):
And even though we were growing very much like at
the same rate more modern, like I realized when it
came to like how to raise a family and what
kind of like you know, kids, and all those things,
like we didn't see eye to eye and like religion anymore,
and how we wanted to live our lives. And because
we got married too young and we had like such
a beautiful friendship, I think we decided, like, let's not
(31:44):
risk Like.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Did he want to take the orthodox route.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, like he wanted to still I don't know how
he feels now, but like at the time, he still
wanted like a religious home and things that I just
like wasn't willing to change my mind on, and I
didn't want to like convince him to change his mind.
So I think we like both decided that it was best,
Like we had like as amicable of a split as
(32:08):
you could, because we also had like such a deep
rooted friendship that existed that I think like that was
even harder for me because there was nothing wrong. You
didn't do anything. Like people like were trying to find
the tea and I'm like, there is no tea.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
You guys kind of just grew up.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, exactly, Like nineteen is just really young to get married.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
But it was also real life stuff, you know that
you were looking at for the future exactly, and those
types of things. If you disagree on them, it's.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Yeah, it's core values, like you can't you can't come
back from in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
For sure, do you regret getting married so young or
do you feel like everything happens for a reason and
you were supposed to experience.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
That exactly, Like I don't like to have regrets in anything.
I do think, like I would not want my child
to get married at nineteen, But I'm like thankful for
like the life I live now, because I don't think
like I think he was like my rock through all
the changes that my family he went through and just
like finding myself, like I'm so thankful that he was
my person throughout that time, so.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
As your family was leaving the community, though I know
you said that he wanted to still hold that religious
that religious practice in your household. How did he feel
leaving the community? Then? Did he leave with you?
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Yeah, so it was more like he grew up like
a little more modern than I did. Like he his
family was more open minded than mine was. So it
was more like we just gradually became like more modernized together,
and it was very much like we would talk everything through,
but then when it got to a point where like
we didn't see eye to eye on how we were
going to live. He was very respectful of like my choices,
(33:42):
and I was respectful of his. But ultimately I think,
like when you want to have kids, you should be
on like the same wavelength that leavest. Like we weren't
in the same chapter anymore. So it was fine when
it was just me and him because we were both
very respectful of each other's choices.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
You do social media with you.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
He was on it, yeah, definitely, Like I wouldn't say
it was like his thing, but he definitely was involved,
and like I loved having him on, like I hope
my next not I hope my next partner will definitely
be like open to it.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, it's fine. Yeah, it's even like the little Tetok.
Yeah with that exactly. Are you still in contact with
him today?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
We're not, Like, we're not in contact. I would say
if I needed something like I would reach out to him,
but we don't. We're not friends and if I bumped
into him, like it would be nice to catch up exactly.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, so after your divorce you decided to leave the
religious lifestyle completely. What does your life look like now?
And how long did it take you to feel comfortable
getting back into the dating pool.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
So I would say, my life looks so different now.
I think like being able. I think everyone should experience
like being single in their life because especially as an adult,
because you get to like make choices that aren't influenced
by anybody else Whereas I feel like in relationships, which
is supernatural and also really beautiful, like everything is like
how do you feel? How do I feel like? This
is what I want to do? How do you feel
(35:00):
about it? And I think those are like wonderful experiences
to have. But I do think being able to make
my own decisions for myself without having anyone's like thoughts
in my head about how they're going to feel about
it has been really empowering and exciting, and that's why
I feel like I did have like one relationship after
my divorce, and that was like huge learning lesson. But
(35:23):
I think it took me Like I'm experiencing all the
things that most people have in their twenties, like in
my thirties.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
You started your experience at twenty eight.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yeah, like and I was almost twenty ninety. So yeah,
I'm like, I don't feel like I've been single that long,
Whereas like when I'm around people and they're like, oh,
you're thirty two, and I'm like, yeah, I am thirty two. Yeah,
but I feel like there's so many like things that
I learned about myself along the way that have been
really wonderful. So I'm like so thankful for.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I also feel like people are saying you're the new
twenties or in your thirties. Yeah, so you are more
than fine. Girl, live your life experience, have fun with it, yeah,
and just embrace it because the fact that you're even
experiencing that now is a blessing.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Yeah, I'm so thankful.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
How was it from going being so modest and conservative
to I mean you look you look fire or thank you? Like,
how was that transition? Was it fun? It probably felt
like you were having a whole new wardrobe. Yeah, and
just the shopping must have been.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
It was like it was like a mix. Like part
of it was like it was I felt very insecure,
like showing anything off or feeling comfortable in my body.
And I remember just like looking at people like in
bikinis and being like, oh my god, like how do
you do that?
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Like that's so you know.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
But now I feel like the sense of freedom that
I'm able to like make my own decisions for myself
and like if something feels comfortable on me, then like
I'm happy to wear it, or sometimes I'll push my limits.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
And when did that transition start? Did it start when
you left the community at each at nineteen or no?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
I would say like maybe when I was like twenty two,
I like gradually started being less modest, and then like
when I hit maybe like twenty seven was the first
time I wore pants, and then like we're you know,
within that twenty seven twenty eight started wearing like sleeveless
tank tops. Like I was very everything was very very gradual.
(37:15):
So that's why I feel like so many things are
still new to me because I didn't experience them growing
up like at a normal age.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
So how quickly did you get back into the other dating?
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah, I would say.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Because you said you had one relationship after Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Well I first like dated a lot, like a lot,
a lot I had like both my ex boyfriend was
my ninetieth date, like guy that I had gone out
with like in a year.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
And a half. No way, I don't know what the.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Averages, Like I would go on like two dates tonight,
I was like wild. I was just out there meeting
so many people, which I think was really necessary for
me at the time.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
It's not like you kissed every person.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
No, definitely not, but it was just like fun. I
think I learned a lot about what I liked and
didn't like from going out with all different kinds of people,
which is amazing, which I think.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Is that you have that experience.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Never had that experience. I didn't know anything. I also
was like, I think there's two stages, Like people can
go out on dates like I was going out for fun,
and then there's different points in my time where I'm
like when I'm more intentionally dating. I'm not going out
as much, but I think I was always very like
straightforward on the date, like I just got out of something.
I'm not like looking, but I'm open. That was kind
(38:29):
of my statement to guys when they would be like,
so what are you looking for? Because I think they
could sense on me that I was so unavailable, But
I'm like, guys, they're attracted to that sometimes too, like
I want to lock you down. I'm like, no, don't
hold my hand please.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Like that's so scary.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
So I think it would wait what oh, I would say,
like took me maybe three months to go on a date,
and then it kind of like once I like rip
the band aid off, I was like I was out there,
but I was still really unavailable.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
I mean, but that's like so fun the fact that
you went on over ninety dates and you've really just
explored all your options and it probably just taught you
what you wanted, what you didn't want, and it was
like almost like an experimental.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Oh, it was just fun meeting people like I learned
about I tried out so many different restaurants and bars,
and I met people from like all over different backgrounds,
learned a lot about like different careers or things that
I could like be interested in, like I found dating.
I think like the best mindset is to just go
into a first date, just like being open to learning
(39:34):
something new as opposed to like is this my husband,
because then it makes it more enjoyable when you're like, oh,
I'm trying a new restaurant, Like cool, even if I
don't like him, at least I'm gonna have a good meal.
Like I'm all about like spinning everything for the positive.
So like try to find like the nice things about
experiencing dating instead of being like it's annoying.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Is your sister or brother still heavily involved in the
religious community.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
So my youngest brother is like ultra ult or religious
even more than I grew up. Love him. Whatever floats
his boat makes him happy. My other two siblings are
not religious or like way similar to me, whereas like
very proud of our Jewish identity.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
To your youngest brothers, I think, like his older siblings yeah,
and are not involved in the community.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I think like he he was brought up in it
a little bit and then he kind of just like
explored it because I have like very religious aunts and
uncles and cousins. So he was still in the community
because my dad was like with him most of the time,
So he was still in that world and he just
decided to like veer more of that direction than the
(40:38):
other direction. And then I guess he found that he
loved it, so he went even deeper. Wow, And how
old are each one of yourselves? So my youngest brother
is nineteen so and I'm thirty two, and then I
have a sister's twenty five and a brother is twenty nine. Okay, wow, yeah,
so there's like we're all spread out.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Is your brother married yet? Your youngest brother no, Oh
my god.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Oh the young one under me twenty nine. Now he's single. Ladies,
you want to check him out on Instagram. And then
my youngest brother, I hope he doesn't get married.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
I hope he waits. So your sister had come out
as bisexual. How was that with her.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Coming out even like within the religious world. Yeah, I
think like when she first told me, I was like,
was like, okay, I didn't really like know how to
respond to it because I wasn't like I just had
an experience that with anyone. But I think that she
was like already like out of the community at that point,
so she felt like comfortable doing that, and like, my
(41:38):
family has been like super supportive. My dad was also
like even though he's religious, like super supportive. So my
family has always been like whatever makes you happy, like
that's what you should do. And it's been like really amazing.
Like I like, I think that takes so much courage
for her to do that, coming out of such a
religious background where you're taught that that is bad. But
(41:59):
I'm thankful that my family is like so open minded
and supportive of like do what makes you happy, Like
everyone deserves to like choose how they want to live
their life and experience the world.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Well that's yeah, honestly, just the fact that your family,
you know, some of you did decide to fully leave
the community, some of you decided to stay keep some
of your religious values. But the fact that each one
of you found what makes you happy and what each
one of you wanted to do to you know, better
your lives and make you guys more happy, is really
really amazing.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Yeah, Like like really thanks to my parents because they
just like instilled that like be like the best version
of you, however that looks, and they just like always
wanted us to be close.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Is there a part of your life that people totally
misunderstand just watching clips or scrolling from your feed.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
I feel like I guess, like my divorce, but I
never like care enough to explain to people because it's
like a personal thing. But I think, like going back
to what I said earlier is like just because nothing
things wrong doesn't mean it's right. And I feel like
a lot of people will stay in relationships because like
there's nothing technically wrong, but they know that they deep
(43:09):
down that they could be happier in a different lifestyle
with a different partner. And I feel like people try
to like you're still single, like why did you leave
that marriage where you looked really happy? And I'm like,
I would never change that decision, Like it was the
best decision for me and him, and like I wish
him all the best and hope he finds the happiness
(43:30):
and I know that I will as well, And I'm
like very thankful that I took that step for myself.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
You've really built such a strong online community, especially with women,
and your family has probably just inspired so many people
in the Orthodox community to leave and really express themselves
and be who they want to be in this life.
So how did you decide what parts of your life
that you wanted to share?
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yeah, I think like having the show really helped because
pre show I didn't really like share anything personal, even
about my religious journey. I was like very closed off,
like I didn't want anyone's opinions because I know whatever
you post online you're gonna get opinions, which you know,
and it's hard, like building that thick skin to not
let people's comments or opinions of you matter took me
(44:19):
a long time. But then I think once the show
came out, I felt way more comfortable having a voice,
and I'm like, okay, a lot of my like life
is out there anyway, people have opinions already, like let
me just share more. And I found that sharing like
my divorce and being single and finding myself has been
like yeah, and it's nice. And it's also like nice
(44:40):
to connect with so many women who have experienced similar
things or hear how like me, sharing has inspired them
to like take a chance on themselves or and their
situationship or leave a Really not that I, you know,
am telling people to leave relationships. I just support like
living your best life and like not feeling like one
person dick takes your feet. So I feel like those
(45:01):
things have been really wonderful to connect and I found
that it can be intent sometimes, Like I know, whatever
I share people are going to have no one's going
to agree with that. Not everyone's going to agree with
me always, and they're never going to agree with me.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
So no matter what, whatever you post online, you're going
to exactly people that agree with you with their full
heart and people who completely disagree with you. And that's
just kind of what you got for being a part
of online.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah, it is what it is, and I love it,
like and I'm so thankful, Like there's so many more
like beautiful things on social media than the negative, so
I try to always focus on that.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
One d P. So what are you up to know?
Speaker 2 (45:39):
I also have a podcast, Hard to Heart where I
talk a lot about dating, and I did launch a
course called The Beginning of the End how to Know
One to Leave, And it's just like a five video
course with like worksheets and like journal prompts and all
these things like information that I wish I had that
someone would ask me when I was debating, like if
(46:01):
I wanted to leave my marriage, and even like leave
my you know, and things with my ex boyfriend. So
I tried to like take all the things that I've
learned and like what helped me process making that decision
and put it out there to share with other women.
So that's something that I'm promoting now as well.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Oh I love that. If you guys want to hear
more about Sheba's life and her advice, make sure to
go look at her course the Beginning of the end
and listen to her podcast Hard to Heart. Thank you
so much for coming on Casual Chaos. You have definitely
inspired so many women and family, so you should be
(46:38):
really proud of that.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Thank you so great to meet, so nice to Thanks
for having me you guys,
Hey guys, and welcome back to another week of Casual Chaos.
This week, I have a very exciting guest bought Cheva Hart.
Welcome to Casual Chaos.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Thank you, thank you so much for having me. I'm
so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I'm so excited for you to be here. I feel
like you have such an interesting life and I cannot
wait to dive into it. Let's get into it. So
you're based in Miami, but you've been all over the map.
I feel like you're living your best life right now.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And yeah, I'm trying my best. So it's in Europe
for a month. I do like I'm a snowbird at
thirty two, you know, I do Miami winter, New York summer.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
So okay, so you're back in a minute. Yeah, okay.
Do you have a place in New York and then
a place in my I pay.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Rent in Miami, so I'm a Florida resident taxes. And
then when I'm in New York, I stayed by my mom,
so I have like a room there with all of
my like leave a set of clothing and skincare makeup,
so it feels like my own little apartment, which is nice.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
That's what I that's what I do again my dad. Yeah,
because my dad lives in the Bahamas. Okay, so I
leave like a set of stuff there so I don't
constantly need to bring it back and forth exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Whenever I like get at Newburgh to the airport, when
I'm leaving Miami to New York, They're all like, no luggage.
I was like, no, just my handbag, just bringing myself.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, no, I love that. Easy travel, easy travel. What
are the odds?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
And now they look at me and they're like, you
don't look like someone who doesn't bring the leggage. And
I was like, you don't know what I have in
New York, but thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So how many siblings do you have?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I have three younger siblings okay, all girls, oldest. I
have one sister and two brothers.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Oh I love that. Yeah, so it's two and two,
two and two. I love that. I always said, if
I you know, I don't think I'm going to get
to four kids. I'm one of four. I have four sisters,
and I am forever grateful for my sisters. They're you're
built in best friends. But it's a lot. It is
a lot on the parents, a lot on my mom.
It just it's a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
And how old was your mom when she had you?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
When my mom, when my mom had me, she was
twenty yeah nine, okay, because she got married at twenty eight. Okay.
My dad was thirty thirty one okay, yeah, my.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Mom was twenty one, so she was like a baby
when she Wow. I always think that because I'm like
so close in age with my mom that I'm like,
because your mom now she's fifty four, okay, but yeah,
mom's fifty three, okay, okay, it makes sense with three ages.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeah, okay, Wow, that's super young. That reminds you kind
of like of my grandparents. But yeah, they did it
even younger, because in Italy it was crazy. My dad's
mom got married at thirteen. Yeah, thirteen, thirteen or fourteen.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I got married at nineteen, So I think that's really
I'm talkingry, but I think we got into all of
that that thirteen.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Oh my god's crazy. How just like the times have evolved.
I feel like now people are like, get married in
your thirties for a minute, have kids in like your
mid thirties. Like it's just so much more relaxed. Even
in Italy, like marriage there is happening so much later,
which is crazy because it used to happen so young, right,
(03:08):
So just like the transformation lived so.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Long now, so it makes sense that it's getting pushed off.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
A little bit. No, take care of your hope. Yeah.
So you had careers in both cities, Miami and New York.
How do you feel like they differ?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I think so I do social media, so like I
can work remotely as long as I have my phone
or a camera, and I would say New York they
are like so many more events. I was like constantly
I was going to like two to three events a night,
and then in Miami, I feel like it's way more
spread out, Like there are events, but to me they
feel a little more special because it's not like back
to back to back.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
They feel like New York events every night every night.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, and I love that. And then I was like, okay,
like I'm ready for a change of pace. So it's
nice when I'm back here, I get to like experience
it a little bit more. But then when I go
back to Miami, it's like a little more zen and chill.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah. So you've been super open on your social media, Yeah,
and on your podcast Heart to heart about dating in
both cities, So give us a rundown Miami first, New York.
What is your opinion?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, okay, well New York there are way more men,
Like there's so many men, So I would say, like
the nice part about that is like I never, like,
you know how sometimes you can like date within a
friend group, Like I never had that experience because there's
just so many friend groups. So I never had like
any crossover that I had to worry about or like
fear if like you're going on a date somewhere that
(04:29):
you're going to like maybe bump into someone that you've
also dated, whereas in Miami it's like super small. In
my opinion, like the dating world is very like ancestual,
not like in the family thing, but more just like
I went on a date, probably my friend went on
a date with him, or I dated his friend.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Everyone knows everyone.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Everyone knows everyone if you're running in the same circles.
But I will say they're like way more like entrepreneurs.
Living in Miami. There's more people who have a similar
lifestyle to me where they're like Miami New York or
they work remotely, So I think that aspect I really
like whereas New York is very like finance in the office,
you don't have as much flexibility, so I think like
(05:10):
both places have their perks. But I did just download
hinge like last week. I haven't been on the apps
in forever, and I like, in Miami, I don't touch it,
like it doesn't it's not you get out there. But
in New York I was like whoa, yeah, like where
are you men from? There must have been like a
breakup season in the past two months because these are all.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Everyone loves to break up before the summer.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I get it, and thank you.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
No. I know a couple of my girlfriends, you know,
they're on the dating apps, and I feel like it's
fun to just kind of download it and see what's
out there, but then to actually execute it is a
whole nother thing.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Oh for sure. Like that's why I was so oftome,
like I'm over them. And I do think like I
had a phase where I called it like my hinge
Hoo phase, and I just like went on a million
dates with people because I was like newly single and
I'm like, let me live my life, when.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Me meet ever you want.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
It was so good and I wasn't like in this.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Innocent there in dates, you're it's almost like you're speed dating.
You're just getting to know the person and seeing if
there's a connection exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And I was just like loving meeting new people. I
was like very emotionally unavailable, so it was like a
fun experience. And now that I'm more intentional about it,
I'm like, okay, Like do I want to spend my
nay with you?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I started asking for FaceTime check ins before. That's actually
smart to know if they're catfish or not. Yeah, yeah,
or if they're just weird or like if they say
something off putting in the first five minutes, I'm like,
I'm good, Yeah, we don't need I'm actually busy on
that day, so I won't be able to make it.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Well, let's be in touch. That's honestly good. That's a
good safety thing that you're doing. Which city do you
think is the easiest to date in or easier to
date in New York? New York there's just more people.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah, so like your chances of connecting with someone are easier.
I will say I think Miami is a little more social,
Like meeting people out is a little easier because the
crowds are smaller, and I feel like people are traveling
there or their transplants, so everyone's just more open to
talking as opposed to New York. I feel like people
are like in their circle in their head, they're not
(07:22):
really looking to branch out.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
So give me some of your green flags and red flags.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
For men, Okay, good sense of humor, green flag makes
a plan follows through love that you know, pre forty
eight hour mark. That's that's a muss. Like if you
want to text me the morning of like, oh, this
is what we're doing, like, that doesn't really work for
me because in my head, like you're not showing up
(07:48):
and I'm busy, so plan ahead. Sense of humor kind hmmm, ambitious.
Like I always ask guys are you happy with what
you're doing? Like, and a lot of times I get no,
But it's a paycheck, and I'm like, that's not.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Gonna work for me.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, dreamer, all those things are.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
I think that's the biggest turn on for a guy.
Is there work ethic and ambition. Yeah, if my guy
doesn't have work ethic or ambition, like I, I can't
relate to No, I can't either, And I just you
have to have drive for yourself and also have that
ambition to like want to strive and have you know,
(08:31):
a healthy family and work for your family and support
your family. And I think that's just kind of how
I grew up, so seeing that visually and also how
I am. I want my man to meet me where
I'm at or exceed work exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, Like if you're less on, that's just not it's
not gonna work. And that's why when it's like, oh yeah,
it's like a good paycheck, like maybe down like no
like find with yeah, do it now? Yeah, like what
are you what are we waiting for? Like you have
no responsibilities?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
This is the time exactly. And then some of your
red flags.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Okay, red flags like does respectful or rude, no emotional
intelligence like if you're can have like a real conversation
with me, or like you're very evasive, avoidant personalities. I
don't like people who are late, so that would bother
(09:24):
me because I'm such an on time person, so I
don't think I could handle someone who's like a little
it is fine, but like perpetual. Yeah, like some of
my like my best friends, a lot of them are
super late. Yeah, like they're my friends and I could
like and it's okay, yeah, but to live with someone
like that that would be really hard for me.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah, So definitely those things. So what do you look
for in a man? What do I look for.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Now? I'm looking for someone who wants to build with
me and lettle down and make a family and all
those things. So like a little bit past the stage
of like figuring themselves out, like I want them to
have figured out also, like hopefully you have some relationship
history that you've like figured it out with someone else
how to show up in a relationship, So because I've
already done that stuff, So I'm like, I really hope
(10:10):
someone else trained you and then I can reap those
benefits because I trained someone else, Like they get to
reap the benefits of whoever I dated. So that's like
my ideal, Like they've experienced relationship before at least a year,
and that's like my minimum.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, well, I mean, because you don't want to go
through those experience all over.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, And I get it, like everyone has a learning
curve in a relationship, like how to be mindful of
another person's time or think about their feelings.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
You're obviously going to learn something about a new person
going to a new relationship. But at least if you've
had some prior experiences, you know, the bare minimum. Okay,
don't do this to a woman.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Maybe, yeah, maybe do this.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah, just little things. I totally get that.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, knows how to communicate, like share your feelings with
me or therapist.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I mean communication is so key in that relationship. Communication
and trust. If you don't have those two things in
a relationship, it's pretty hard to build a stable and
healthy one.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah, And I'm like so blunt with like how I'm feeling,
So I need someone who can like match me. They
don't have to be as blunt as I am, but
at least like be able to like share what's going on,
because that's just so natural. I was gonna say, I
feel like we're very similar like that, you just like
speak your mind. I've learned sometimes.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Get in trouble. Yeah, it does.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Now.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I feel like some people respect it. Sometimes people think
I'm too much, and that's fair. Sometimes I think I'm
too much as well. So it's you know, finding your
happy media exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Like we all have things to learn, but that's important
because I feel like, you know, you need to be
able to like meet me there. And also something that's
really important is remote like that they have flexibility, not
one undred percent remote, like I can be a little
okay on that, but I do love my current setup
that I have, and I would love for someone to
be able to travel with me.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And go with you. Yeah, but still works. Yeah, of
course experience life with you a little bit. What kind
of energy or traits do you think women give off
that attract those kinds of men.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I've actually been really working on being more feminine, like
in my feminine energy, because I'm way more like masculine
in terms of like I see a guy that I
think is cute, like I'm gonna go say hi, but which.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Honestly, I feel like so many women don't do that,
and that's also so respected. It's like a new thing
for women, Yeah, because I feel like women were so
scared to go up to men and show that they're interested, yes,
and show that they're interested in men. But I feel
like now women are doing that more so than men
(12:36):
because now the men are scared to Yeah they're women.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
They're such I don't know for allow, but like babies,
I don't know. Whatever you want to leave out, but
like they just like don't have the balls. I don't
know what I'm on saying this podcast, so like they
can't do it you want. I feel like that, But
I will say, like I think there's a medium. Months ago,
(13:01):
my like therapist was like, you don't know how to
be pursued, Like you're way too masculine when it comes
to dating and the tape of guy you want to
be with like is going to have those trades. So
like let's like just like try to like let people
come to you a little bit more, but like keep
your energy open. So I think that there's like a
balance between the two. Like I think making eye contact
(13:21):
with someone smiling like but holding their smile and their
gaze let them know like you have a green light,
come talk to me. I'm interested. Little hints like waving
at them, just like showing your interest with And I
also don't think there's anything wrong with walking. Like I've
walked up to men all the time with like my
number on a napkin and like walked away and like
(13:43):
wrote single question mark and then like I've gotten dates
like that, I've sent cookies to guys. I've like, yeah,
I've dropped my number whenever I can. I've had friends
walk over, so I don't mind those things. But I
think there's like a balance that like you can give
the guy the green light and then let him yeah,
and then like let him follow through a little bit.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah. I agree. I am in a relationship now. But
for my single girls out there, what's the biggest excuse
you've heard from a guy who didn't want to commit? Oh?
All the excuses, Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I want to preface this by saying that I do
think that there is something about you that you need
to look at if you if you keep on attracting
unavailable men, like for the past I now a year
and a half, I like would get to the stage
I had like three different guys that I was interested in,
and then it would get to the like are we
dating or not moment, and I would get the same
(14:41):
like I actually realize that I'm not ready for anything,
and like, and they're always very respectful, like no, I've
never been like let on in any way. And I
do think that there are a lot of men out
there that will just like be with a girl until
she asks for something more. And these guys were just like,
we know where this is heading and we don't think
we can get there.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Well, I think in general, if you are with a
mature girl, m Okay, you meet, you're out, you go home.
After doing that so many times, it comes to a
point where you're like, okay, what are we doing? Yeah,
and what the next step would be to like to
seriously start talking, going on dates and really building a
(15:22):
genuine connection. But that's the next step, right if the
if the guy's not ready for that, then you know,
it's a constant cycle of just receiving this exactly. You're
kind of let down in a way. You know. Each
time that that happened.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Oh, for sure, I was very like, but after it
happened to me like three times in a row, I
was like, Okay, I need to look internally because like
obviously I'm I think, like you know, it goes both ways,
but I do think women sometimes like need to look internally.
It's like, Okay, what am I putting out there? That's
letting that I keep on attracting these guys because I
would describe them as like forward facing, want a relationship
(15:59):
with them when it comes down to it, aren't ready
to take the next step. And then I went to therapy,
big advocate for your mental health everyone. And I realized
that like I had like some trauma from my divorce
that I was so scared of like actually letting myself
care for someone because I was scared of getting hurt.
(16:19):
And once I work through that, like I the past,
like two guys I've like been a little interested in
have been like the opposite. They're like, no, like let's
like continue this, and I'm like, I don't know, like
let's take it slow, let me take it, let me yeah, exactly.
So I feel like I have changed, Like the type
of guys that I'm just naturally attracting now are like
(16:40):
way more emotion even though they're like younger than some
of the other guys. It doesn't really matter. It's just
like what are what are energy? Are you putting out?
So I think, women, do you need to like energy?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Did you switch? I think I feel like a lot
of my friends are in this position. So I'm going
to tell them to come listen, yeah to this podcast.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Definitely come listen.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I think they're, you know, because they're ready for relationships.
But the guys that they're gravitating towards obviously have all
of the physical attributes. They're hot, they're outgoing, you know,
they you know, they're a good time. But then when
it comes down to the relationship aspect, they're too immature, right,
and they are not ready for it. They rather instead
(17:20):
of having this girl that's right in front of them
that's ready for a relationship and ready for the next step,
they rather go.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah, someone new to the young end.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, they rather go to like, yeah, the girls that
just turn twenty one and have a good time. So
I feel like, especially in the bar scene down at
the Jersey Shore, it's summer. You're getting a lot of
these good looking guys, but it's also summer. They want
to have fun. They're not looking for a relationship. But
how would you say you switched that to gravitate more
(17:52):
towards men that we're ready versus not ready.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I think that it's like in the beginning, like the
first second date moment, it's like, how are they showing
up for you? Instead of like, yes, maybe they're attractive,
they're taking you to a nice dinner. They're like saying like, oh,
we you know, like when guys do that, they like
future you when you're like this is our first day,
Like I don't believe you. Yeah, so I've got I
think guys who do that too much are like unavailable,
(18:18):
and they're just because otherwise, someone who's like really intentional
about getting to know you isn't going to put that
label like say a wee, or we should do this,
like you know, I'm going to take you to my
hometown and show you this place. Like they're not going
to do that because that seems way too intense for
them because they know they'll follow through. So I think
like not love bombing, but like a little love bomby,
(18:38):
like if they're coming on really strong, like a lot
of times it's a game for them and it's exciting
and they love the chase, but then they don't love
the like consistent showing up for you. So I think
like that's one thing. Like I feel like your listeners
are probably like in their twenties. Like if you do
hook up with someone and have a sleepover, like are
they staying over and having coffee with you in the morning,
(19:00):
or are they like rushing out like someone who wants
to get to know you and spend time with you,
like unless they have a meeting, like they want to
see you in the daylight and have coffy with you
in the morning and not be like that was fun,
like I'll you know, call you even though they're gonna
ask you on another date. It's just like that energy
of like building more interests with you. So I think
(19:21):
it's like those first like I don't know, one to
three dates. How you see are they showing up for
you in that way that feels like more consistent, maybe
not as passionate but real because I think they'll like
excitement and like the stomach flips. That's fun, but it's
not longevity.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yeah, it's not long lasting exactly a lot of people
know you from the Netflix show My Unorthodox Life that
showed a really personal and powerful part of your story.
How was that when your family's journey was out of
that show?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, I mean I know that you can relate, like
it's a lot to share so much.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I will see how many seasons was it too? Okay?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
So I mean it's like filmed like a year and
it comes out a year later, So I think, like you're.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Row so much within that year. I feel like even now,
my I have a new show on Bravo that just
came out this year, Next Gen m I see, and
we filmed this a year ago, so it's crazy just
to see yourself a year ago and where you are
now and you're like, wow, I really grew so much
within this year exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
And also like what maybe you were like was really
sensitive to you at that time, Like it's been so
long you don't feel the same emotion. So I think
that's nice. Like I think being able to like be
mentally prepared for it to be shared and not to
feel as like triggered in whatever is happening makes a
big difference. But it was really wonderful, Like I love
being able to work with my family and let's spend
(20:46):
the time doing that with them. And also like I
feel like my family story is so empowering and it's
been nice to share and like really help other people
like break out of their communities or find their happiness,
know that they can dream and live new lives and
like still be you know, And how was that first
step breaking out of the community. So my mom was
(21:07):
the one who like pioneered it all, and then I
was already married at the time, so I think my
like leaving the community was a little more gradual because
I did it with my ex husband, so like everything
was like what do we want to do together? But
I wouldn't have like been like I wouldn't be sitting
here with you if my mom hadn't taken those steps
to leave because I was brought up in such like
(21:29):
a tiny little bubble of a community. I didn't even
really have like access or knowledge of how to like
live in the regular secular world.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Always out there. Yeah, and so when your dad is
he was did he support your mom leaving the community?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I would say, I mean my parents got divorced. Yeah,
so but he's remarried now. I love his wife.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Is he in the community still.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, not as like intense, he's more like modern Orthodox now.
But he's always been like super supportive of like family,
like we would do like Thanksgiving together and holidays. Like
my parents have like the ideal, in my opinion, divorce
situation because they get along really well.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
My parents have that it's relationship. It's so much better
for the kids. It also transition and it's easy, it's easier,
I think.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, Like my parents were always like family first. We
want our kids to have their both their parents and
their lives and to not have to choose sides and
like I really admire them for that because I'm sure
and like your parents as well, Like I can't imagine
it's easy, but like their priority was always us, and
I've been really thankful.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, that's amazing. And what ways did your mom explain
your religion to you growing up?
Speaker 2 (22:40):
I mean, like religion was just like how it was,
how it was brought into the world, so I didn't
really know anything else. It was just like, this is
how we.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Live our lives.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
This is what you're supposed to do. You follow this
guidebook and these laws, and if you don't, then you're bad.
So when my mom kind of like flip the switch
essentially and was like, no, I don't believe that anymore,
it definitely took me time to.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Like your mom grow up in the Orthodox religion as well.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah, so my mom.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Just kind of came to the conclusion.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
That she, yeah, she like grew up like less religious
when she was like in her early early like childhood,
like pre sixth grade maybe, so like maybe she had
a taste of it, but she didn't really know anything.
Like she was as any of her adult years. She
was very much in the religious world, and she just
started like educating herself with like books and I guess
(23:32):
TV and things like that, and that's how she learned
a little bit enough for her to like feel confident
to leave.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
But did she get married at a young age as well?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, my mom got married at nineteen. My like, my
sister is twenty five, and she's like the first like
girl out of like I don't know how many generations
to not be a teenage bride because I got married
in nineteen, My mom got married in nineteen. My grandmother
I think got married at like seventeen, and I don't know,
I'm sure earlier before then.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
So it's really crazy. So she didn't put that much
pressure on you.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
She kind of just it was like kind of, you know,
what was expected. It was like the next you graduate
high school, like you get married. So it wasn't really
like I didn't feel like there was any other options.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
It was just kind of what you what you do? Yeah, exactly. Wow.
So how did they experience shape the way you approach life,
love and your independence today?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I feel like I'm on my fourth life now because
I had my like growing up religious life, and then
I had my married life, and then I had my
like post divorce trying to figure out how to be
an adult like in this world. And now I feel
only in the past like month or two, and I
this new independent person who like know who I am,
(24:47):
I know what I want. I feel like I've finally
done all the like healing that I need to do
for a relationship, and now I'm like this, I'm excited
all new things that are happening.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yeah, for you back, now, do you feel like there
are still some parts of the past that influence you today?
Speaker 2 (25:07):
So I don't. I don't keep Shabbat anymore, which is
basically like the day of rest in their Jewish culture,
where growing up I didn't use like any like you.
I mean, you have lights on, but you don't cook,
you don't watch TV, you don't get in a car.
So I don't celebrate Shabbat. But in my I celebrate
my day of rest where you don't post on social
media for Shabbat, And that's like just something that I
(25:30):
feel like is great for my mental health and I
hope to.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Always keep that up.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
So that would be like the only thing that I
technically still celebrate or like integrate into my life beyond.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
That one day of a resell.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, exactly my day of rest. But that's and it's beautiful. Yeah,
that is healthy even for anybody. Yes, exactly, like that
is I do that.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
It's important. You need to do that every once in
a while. It's just good for the it's good for
your mind.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yeah, I'm like, it's I don't think of it as
a religion thing, but it was like influenced by religion,
and like now I'm just very like proud of my
Jewish culture.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Your mom decided to leave the ultra Orthodox community, When
did she decide she wanted to leave? And how has
her life changed since then?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I mean, my mom is like a totally She was
a stay at home mom like when I was growing up,
and then she left when I was like nineteen twenty.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
So right after you got my.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Right up, Yeah, I was kind of like my daughter's married,
my son, my brother was like five at the time.
My son's in school, my youngest is in school, and
she's like I'm forty two years old, Like now what,
Like I'm so young, this whole life ahead of me.
I'm not busy like taking care of my kids.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Get divorced.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
They only got divorced, like I don't know, eight years later,
they just like stayed married legally for my brother's stay. Okay, Okay,
they wanted to wait till he was like a little older.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
They they left the Unity together and married, so.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
No, like my mom left and they were just like married,
but they weren't together.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
It was kind of like they just legally they were.
In my head, they were divorced, but like legally they
didn't get married until right before my mom got remarried,
so they just like waited. It was like all like
the technicalities of doing custody and things like that, so
they just waited. But in my head, my parents split
when I was twenty got so okay, it was like
(27:28):
an earlier on thing. So like my dad has always
like remained religious, and my mom obviously decided she wanted
a different path. So they just like technically were living.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Their own lives but while legally married, which I feel
like a lot of people do, a lot of people do. Yeah,
and so what does your mom's life look like to that?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
And my mom went from being she right when she
left the community, she started a shoe brand called Julia
Hart and it was like a really big success that
she did a collaboration with La Perla, which was a
lingerie brand at the time, and she did a shoe
line for them that was really successful. They hired her
to be the creative director of La Perla and she
(28:07):
did like Ready to Wear, She dressed Kendall Jenner for
the Metala. She like did all those things, and then
she became the CEO of Elite Model World, which was
also like she's my mom's a boss, Like yeah, I
feel like similar to your mom.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Like, so she's very creative.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Very creative, has a super talented, super brilliant and just
like a boss she taught me.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
So now she runs an agency, has an agency.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
And then she also has a shape or a brand
called plus Body by Julia Hart.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah, I love that go off. Yeah, she's a good turn.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
She definitely took a turn. That's why she's my inspiration.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Like say, it's probably so inspirational watching her career and
also accomplish all these things at forty two. Exactly, that
was the start of her career forty two years old,
and she has made it. Like yeah, exactly, that's incredible.
Kudos to your mom.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, I love her. She's like, you can do anything
at any age. You're never too old to dream.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Does she regret leaving the community so late.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
I don't think so. I think like to her it
was like every yeah, like she did it when she
was ready to do it. I feel like that's with
like also relationships, it's like a lot of times you
know you should do it earlier, but like you're not
able to like fully follow through.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
So it makes sense when you do leave and it
all happens. Yeah, it's supposed to. Do you ever feel
pressure from anyone in your extended family to join the
ultra Orthodox community?
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Again, I don't, like, I don't get peer pressure, so
even like family pressure, I'm kind of like I do
my own thing. I think because I had to leave
something and it took so many steps, like within the
religious community, community and my marriage, I'm like, I do
what's best for me. So like no one feels like
I feel like I don't exude energy where you can
like try to change my mind. Yeah, Like I try
(29:53):
to be respectful, and you know, hope they're respectful of
my choices.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
You got married at nineteen years old. When did the
two of you get divorced?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
We got divorced at twenty eight, so we were together
for a long time. Wow, yeah, you recently just got
divorced four years ago. Yeah, almost four years. Yeah, we
met when we were seventeen. We got married at nineteen,
which was like the natural progression of like like saved
ourselves for marriage.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Happened pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yeah, so like he was definitely.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
My Like, so did you date prior or he was
your friend? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, we dated, but like more in secret, because you're
not supposed to have boyfriends, okay, like you're supposed to
save you know, they want to like protect you so
that you don't God forbid have sex before marriage. So
like they tried to. I went to an all girls
high school. I didn't like have my first kiss until
I was seventeen, and like me rebelling out of high
school with like a boy like a family friend, but
(30:45):
like we both saved ourselves for marriage and then.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
But he was your first boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah, I don't even know if I would consider him
a boyfriend, like I consider my first boyfriend, like the
guy I dated after my divorce, I just consider him
my husband. It kind of like feels like it was just.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
But he is like your first person, like.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Also was saying, okay, and then like he was definitely
like my soul like one of my soulmates. Like we
were meant to be together, like, and I feel so
blessed that I experienced a marriage with him. But like
I just think choosing your forever partner at nineteen is
really young. Like we both like grew so much, and
I realized, like I don't want to live this life anymore.
(31:23):
And even though we were growing very much like at
the same rate more modern, like I realized when it
came to like how to raise a family and what
kind of like you know, kids, and all those things,
like we didn't see eye to eye and like religion anymore,
and how we wanted to live our lives. And because
we got married too young and we had like such
a beautiful friendship, I think we decided, like, let's not
(31:44):
risk Like.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Did he want to take the orthodox route.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, like he wanted to still I don't know how
he feels now, but like at the time, he still
wanted like a religious home and things that I just
like wasn't willing to change my mind on, and I
didn't want to like convince him to change his mind.
So I think we like both decided that it was best,
Like we had like as amicable of a split as
(32:08):
you could, because we also had like such a deep
rooted friendship that existed that I think like that was
even harder for me because there was nothing wrong. You
didn't do anything. Like people like were trying to find
the tea and I'm like, there is no tea.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
You guys kind of just grew up.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, exactly, Like nineteen is just really young to get married.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
But it was also real life stuff, you know that
you were looking at for the future exactly, and those
types of things. If you disagree on them, it's.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Yeah, it's core values, like you can't you can't come
back from in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
For sure, do you regret getting married so young or
do you feel like everything happens for a reason and
you were supposed to experience.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
That exactly, Like I don't like to have regrets in anything.
I do think, like I would not want my child
to get married at nineteen, But I'm like thankful for
like the life I live now, because I don't think
like I think he was like my rock through all
the changes that my family he went through and just
like finding myself, like I'm so thankful that he was
my person throughout that time, so.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
As your family was leaving the community, though I know
you said that he wanted to still hold that religious
that religious practice in your household. How did he feel
leaving the community? Then? Did he leave with you?
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Yeah, so it was more like he grew up like
a little more modern than I did. Like he his
family was more open minded than mine was. So it
was more like we just gradually became like more modernized together,
and it was very much like we would talk everything through,
but then when it got to a point where like
we didn't see eye to eye on how we were
going to live. He was very respectful of like my choices,
(33:42):
and I was respectful of his. But ultimately I think,
like when you want to have kids, you should be
on like the same wavelength that leavest. Like we weren't
in the same chapter anymore. So it was fine when
it was just me and him because we were both
very respectful of each other's choices.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
You do social media with you.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
He was on it, yeah, definitely, Like I wouldn't say
it was like his thing, but he definitely was involved,
and like I loved having him on, like I hope
my next not I hope my next partner will definitely
be like open to it.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, it's fine. Yeah, it's even like the little Tetok.
Yeah with that exactly. Are you still in contact with
him today?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
We're not, Like, we're not in contact. I would say
if I needed something like I would reach out to him,
but we don't. We're not friends and if I bumped
into him, like it would be nice to catch up exactly.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, so after your divorce you decided to leave the
religious lifestyle completely. What does your life look like now?
And how long did it take you to feel comfortable
getting back into the dating pool.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
So I would say, my life looks so different now.
I think like being able. I think everyone should experience
like being single in their life because especially as an adult,
because you get to like make choices that aren't influenced
by anybody else Whereas I feel like in relationships, which
is supernatural and also really beautiful, like everything is like
how do you feel? How do I feel like? This
is what I want to do? How do you feel
(35:00):
about it? And I think those are like wonderful experiences
to have. But I do think being able to make
my own decisions for myself without having anyone's like thoughts
in my head about how they're going to feel about
it has been really empowering and exciting, and that's why
I feel like I did have like one relationship after
my divorce, and that was like huge learning lesson. But
(35:23):
I think it took me Like I'm experiencing all the
things that most people have in their twenties, like in
my thirties.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
You started your experience at twenty eight.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yeah, like and I was almost twenty ninety. So yeah,
I'm like, I don't feel like I've been single that long,
Whereas like when I'm around people and they're like, oh,
you're thirty two, and I'm like, yeah, I am thirty two. Yeah,
but I feel like there's so many like things that
I learned about myself along the way that have been
really wonderful. So I'm like so thankful for.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I also feel like people are saying you're the new
twenties or in your thirties. Yeah, so you are more
than fine. Girl, live your life experience, have fun with it, yeah,
and just embrace it because the fact that you're even
experiencing that now is a blessing.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Yeah, I'm so thankful.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
How was it from going being so modest and conservative
to I mean you look you look fire or thank you? Like,
how was that transition? Was it fun? It probably felt
like you were having a whole new wardrobe. Yeah, and
just the shopping must have been.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
It was like it was like a mix. Like part
of it was like it was I felt very insecure,
like showing anything off or feeling comfortable in my body.
And I remember just like looking at people like in
bikinis and being like, oh my god, like how do
you do that?
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Like that's so you know.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
But now I feel like the sense of freedom that
I'm able to like make my own decisions for myself
and like if something feels comfortable on me, then like
I'm happy to wear it, or sometimes I'll push my limits.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
And when did that transition start? Did it start when
you left the community at each at nineteen or no?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
I would say like maybe when I was like twenty two,
I like gradually started being less modest, and then like
when I hit maybe like twenty seven was the first
time I wore pants, and then like we're you know,
within that twenty seven twenty eight started wearing like sleeveless
tank tops. Like I was very everything was very very gradual.
(37:15):
So that's why I feel like so many things are
still new to me because I didn't experience them growing
up like at a normal age.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
So how quickly did you get back into the other dating?
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah, I would say.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Because you said you had one relationship after Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Well I first like dated a lot, like a lot,
a lot I had like both my ex boyfriend was
my ninetieth date, like guy that I had gone out
with like in a year.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
And a half. No way, I don't know what the.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Averages, Like I would go on like two dates tonight,
I was like wild. I was just out there meeting
so many people, which I think was really necessary for
me at the time.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
It's not like you kissed every person.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
No, definitely not, but it was just like fun. I
think I learned a lot about what I liked and
didn't like from going out with all different kinds of people,
which is amazing, which I think.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Is that you have that experience.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Never had that experience. I didn't know anything. I also
was like, I think there's two stages, Like people can
go out on dates like I was going out for fun,
and then there's different points in my time where I'm
like when I'm more intentionally dating. I'm not going out
as much, but I think I was always very like
straightforward on the date, like I just got out of something.
I'm not like looking, but I'm open. That was kind
(38:29):
of my statement to guys when they would be like,
so what are you looking for? Because I think they
could sense on me that I was so unavailable, But
I'm like, guys, they're attracted to that sometimes too, like
I want to lock you down. I'm like, no, don't
hold my hand please.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Like that's so scary.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
So I think it would wait what oh, I would say,
like took me maybe three months to go on a date,
and then it kind of like once I like rip
the band aid off, I was like I was out there,
but I was still really unavailable.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
I mean, but that's like so fun the fact that
you went on over ninety dates and you've really just
explored all your options and it probably just taught you
what you wanted, what you didn't want, and it was
like almost like an experimental.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Oh, it was just fun meeting people like I learned
about I tried out so many different restaurants and bars,
and I met people from like all over different backgrounds,
learned a lot about like different careers or things that
I could like be interested in, like I found dating.
I think like the best mindset is to just go
into a first date, just like being open to learning
(39:34):
something new as opposed to like is this my husband,
because then it makes it more enjoyable when you're like, oh,
I'm trying a new restaurant, Like cool, even if I
don't like him, at least I'm gonna have a good meal.
Like I'm all about like spinning everything for the positive.
So like try to find like the nice things about
experiencing dating instead of being like it's annoying.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Is your sister or brother still heavily involved in the
religious community.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
So my youngest brother is like ultra ult or religious
even more than I grew up. Love him. Whatever floats
his boat makes him happy. My other two siblings are
not religious or like way similar to me, whereas like
very proud of our Jewish identity.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
To your youngest brothers, I think, like his older siblings yeah,
and are not involved in the community.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I think like he he was brought up in it
a little bit and then he kind of just like
explored it because I have like very religious aunts and
uncles and cousins. So he was still in the community
because my dad was like with him most of the time,
So he was still in that world and he just
decided to like veer more of that direction than the
(40:38):
other direction. And then I guess he found that he
loved it, so he went even deeper. Wow, And how
old are each one of yourselves? So my youngest brother
is nineteen so and I'm thirty two, and then I
have a sister's twenty five and a brother is twenty nine. Okay, wow, yeah,
so there's like we're all spread out.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Is your brother married yet? Your youngest brother no, Oh
my god.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Oh the young one under me twenty nine. Now he's single. Ladies,
you want to check him out on Instagram. And then
my youngest brother, I hope he doesn't get married.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
I hope he waits. So your sister had come out
as bisexual. How was that with her.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Coming out even like within the religious world. Yeah, I
think like when she first told me, I was like,
was like, okay, I didn't really like know how to
respond to it because I wasn't like I just had
an experience that with anyone. But I think that she
was like already like out of the community at that point,
so she felt like comfortable doing that, and like, my
(41:38):
family has been like super supportive. My dad was also
like even though he's religious, like super supportive. So my
family has always been like whatever makes you happy, like
that's what you should do. And it's been like really amazing.
Like I like, I think that takes so much courage
for her to do that, coming out of such a
religious background where you're taught that that is bad. But
(41:59):
I'm thankful that my family is like so open minded
and supportive of like do what makes you happy, Like
everyone deserves to like choose how they want to live
their life and experience the world.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Well that's yeah, honestly, just the fact that your family,
you know, some of you did decide to fully leave
the community, some of you decided to stay keep some
of your religious values. But the fact that each one
of you found what makes you happy and what each
one of you wanted to do to you know, better
your lives and make you guys more happy, is really
really amazing.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Yeah, Like like really thanks to my parents because they
just like instilled that like be like the best version
of you, however that looks, and they just like always
wanted us to be close.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Is there a part of your life that people totally
misunderstand just watching clips or scrolling from your feed.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
I feel like I guess, like my divorce, but I
never like care enough to explain to people because it's
like a personal thing. But I think, like going back
to what I said earlier is like just because nothing
things wrong doesn't mean it's right. And I feel like
a lot of people will stay in relationships because like
there's nothing technically wrong, but they know that they deep
(43:09):
down that they could be happier in a different lifestyle
with a different partner. And I feel like people try
to like you're still single, like why did you leave
that marriage where you looked really happy? And I'm like,
I would never change that decision, Like it was the
best decision for me and him, and like I wish
him all the best and hope he finds the happiness
(43:30):
and I know that I will as well, And I'm
like very thankful that I took that step for myself.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
You've really built such a strong online community, especially with women,
and your family has probably just inspired so many people
in the Orthodox community to leave and really express themselves
and be who they want to be in this life.
So how did you decide what parts of your life
that you wanted to share?
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yeah, I think like having the show really helped because
pre show I didn't really like share anything personal, even
about my religious journey. I was like very closed off,
like I didn't want anyone's opinions because I know whatever
you post online you're gonna get opinions, which you know,
and it's hard, like building that thick skin to not
let people's comments or opinions of you matter took me
(44:19):
a long time. But then I think once the show
came out, I felt way more comfortable having a voice,
and I'm like, okay, a lot of my like life
is out there anyway, people have opinions already, like let
me just share more. And I found that sharing like
my divorce and being single and finding myself has been
like yeah, and it's nice. And it's also like nice
(44:40):
to connect with so many women who have experienced similar
things or hear how like me, sharing has inspired them
to like take a chance on themselves or and their
situationship or leave a Really not that I, you know,
am telling people to leave relationships. I just support like
living your best life and like not feeling like one
person dick takes your feet. So I feel like those
(45:01):
things have been really wonderful to connect and I found
that it can be intent sometimes, Like I know, whatever
I share people are going to have no one's going
to agree with that. Not everyone's going to agree with
me always, and they're never going to agree with me.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
So no matter what, whatever you post online, you're going
to exactly people that agree with you with their full
heart and people who completely disagree with you. And that's
just kind of what you got for being a part
of online.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah, it is what it is, and I love it,
like and I'm so thankful, Like there's so many more
like beautiful things on social media than the negative, so
I try to always focus on that.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
One d P. So what are you up to know?
Speaker 2 (45:39):
I also have a podcast, Hard to Heart where I
talk a lot about dating, and I did launch a
course called The Beginning of the End how to Know
One to Leave, And it's just like a five video
course with like worksheets and like journal prompts and all
these things like information that I wish I had that
someone would ask me when I was debating, like if
(46:01):
I wanted to leave my marriage, and even like leave
my you know, and things with my ex boyfriend. So
I tried to like take all the things that I've
learned and like what helped me process making that decision
and put it out there to share with other women.
So that's something that I'm promoting now as well.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Oh I love that. If you guys want to hear
more about Sheba's life and her advice, make sure to
go look at her course the Beginning of the end
and listen to her podcast Hard to Heart. Thank you
so much for coming on Casual Chaos. You have definitely
inspired so many women and family, so you should be
(46:38):
really proud of that.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Thank you so great to meet, so nice to Thanks
for having me you guys,
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Zima
Chris Harrison
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