August 27, 2025 • 28 mins
It was a show so many of us loved, watching and cheering contestants on as they lost hundreds of pounds… but behind the scenes, and once the cameras stopped rolling, it was a much different story. Amy and T.J. discuss the Netflix series on the realities behind the once popular reality show and why one of its main stars, Jillian Michaels is now considering taking legal action.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, there are folks. It is the Netflix documentary. Folks
just can't seem to stop talking about And yes, everybody
seems to be talking about it, and so are we
now because that hit TV show Biggest Loser, what was
happening behind the scenes is quite frankly shocking and sad.
(00:23):
Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Rose. We
all remember the show. You said you were absolutely a
huge fan of this show. Do you remember what your
impressions of were of it then before you ever saw
this as a documentary.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yes, so when I mean, I loved this show because
it was watching people push past their fears and make
a change for the better, or at least that's what
it felt like. You watched people getting healthy. Now, yes,
there was some extreme conditions where you had trainers getting
(01:02):
tough with these I guess they were contestants, but people
who were fighting for their health, fighting for their life.
It wasn't just about what they looked like, but they
were actually fighting to live longer and to live better.
And so it was exciting to me to watch because
you were watching people, at least I thought I was
watching people improve their lives, make better choices, learn how
(01:26):
to work, not that they didn't know how to work hard,
but putting themselves in a position where they were putting
in the work and getting the results, and that felt satisfactory.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Way. But you're talking about the show as an inspiration,
which parts of it can be, But this is also
a show that put on and clearly and admittedly were
making fun of overweight people, putting them in positions to
be scarfing down food, to be committing, to be playing
little games in which they're having to carry food in
(01:55):
their mouths, or do all kinds of stuff humiliating things. Now,
your point is well taken. That's absolutely the case. But
did you not remember because I don't remember watching it
that closely, but back at the time, did the inspiration
always come through or did it often feel like a spectacle?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
No? I can so. I worked for NBC News while
this show was on, so we actually had so many
of the contestants and the trainers coming on the Today
Show and we would interview them and do segments with them.
So it was actually part of my work assignment to
watch it. But I enjoyed watching it, and I will
be honest, I never looked at it through a lens
(02:34):
of humiliation or parody, or that any of these people
were being made fun of. Now, watching the documentary, I
saw it from a completely different perspective. But I just
have to say, watching it, when I watched it the
times we were in it didn't really cross my mind
that these folks were being made fun of. I saw
them working their asses off. I was cheering them on
(02:57):
like That's how I felt. I was rooting for them.
I didn't want anyone to fail or to flub, or
to feel discouraged to the point where, yes, there was drama,
I mean, and that was that made the show entertaining
and interesting. But I didn't look at it through that lens.
But watching the documentary, it was it was cringe. Isn't
(03:17):
even perhaps a strong enough forward. I felt sad. I
felt I felt actually even bad for having enjoyed the
show as much as I did. I felt, I just
I saw it from a completely different perspective, and.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
We both felt like that show wouldn't beyond for seventeen
eighteen seasons, like it was if it were trying to
start today.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And it's yes, and it was too. It was only
two decades ago that it started, but so much has
changed in the world for the better, where we have
a better understanding of the CRUL, Like think about the
even the movies from the nineties, like things that were
said and scripts that were written and storylines that were
given would never be allowed in today's world because they
are offensive and they are stereotypical, and all of those
(04:00):
things can be said about this show now looking back
at it through a better way of understanding people.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So that's what they've done now with this docu series.
It's three episodes, pretty digestible when you say, what was it?
Three episodes about an hour each, so they don't really
go that long, and they flow and they move and
it's really interesting. So it's good watching. I mean, it's
very interesting. Even if you didn't watch the show or
we're a fan of it, it catches you up pretty
quickly and it's fascinating. So I guess some of the
(04:29):
major headlines that so many people are debating about having
to do with the extreme measures that some of these
contestants went through. We're getting more detail about that. It
was a contestant that almost died. I think she might
even describe herself as having died for a few minutes. Also,
this idea of these illegal pills caffeine pills that were
given to the contestants. Also many of them, we learn
(04:52):
just about all of them actually gained weight back. We
also learned the sum encouraged to gain weight before they
even went on the show. These there are just some
of the wow headlines robes coming out of this thing
and another thing coming out and looks a lot of
ire criticisms. Is director Towards is the one person who
wasn't in this documentary speaking for herself, one of the trainers,
(05:15):
of course, Jillian Michaels.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
And Jillian Michaels has been very outspoken since this series
came on to Netflix, mainly to defend herself. She says
she hasn't ruled out taking legal action, but she knows
that legal action is expensive. She did acknowledge that, so
it appears for now she's just going on her own
campaign defending herself. And she has, you know, receipts, she
(05:39):
has emails, she has texts, and she's putting them up
on her social media accounts to say what they're saying
about me isn't true. So she's extremely upset and folks
who love Jillian Michaels are upset on her behalf. Some
of the former contestants who weren't featured in this documentary
have also come along and spoken up in defense of
Jillian Michaels because she does get a little bit of
(05:59):
the bad guy rap here it. So you had Bob Harper,
who was the other trainer on the show. He participates
in the documentary, as does a show producer, and the
show's medical doctor also went on, so she was really
and the host of the show, so she was really
kind of the missing person in this documentary that would
(06:20):
have fully legitimized it. And she said, having watched it now,
she has zero regrets for not going on because she
says they're selling a pack of lies.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Well, there was a lot of folks who were interviewed,
and a lot of contestants who do have the same story,
who do tell the same story, and it was there
was a doctor that was on I kind of remember
which one it was where they said it's impossible you
cannot do a show about weight loss that's safe, and
so they were talking about this idea, so much of it.
You consider what we're talking about. They want a body
(06:56):
altering change in you in a period of time, six
months to think that people in six months lost fifty
one hundred, two hundred pounds, two hundred plus pounds. How
could would any doctor say you could safely do that?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I doubt it? And they, I mean, they did have
this doctor on the show to try and make sure
that contestants were as healthy as possible, but clearly, look,
it's one of the like did you ever watch Probably not,
but I'm just gonna throw this out. Did you ever
watch Extreme Makeover? Home Edition? Extreme make So? These extreme
makeover shows were really popular during that decade or so,
(07:36):
and it's as if they tried to take, you know,
someone getting a new haircut and new makeup and new
clothing or redesigning a house and take that same basically
cookie cutter template and apply it to weight loss because
everyone loves it before and after, at least a lot
of I can speak for women in magazines back in
the day, you'd have a before and after, and everyone
(07:56):
loved to see transformation change for the better. It's inspiring,
it's exciting, it makes you feel like you could do
it too. But they took that same type of format
and tried to put it on weight loss, and it worked.
Obviously the show was a huge success. Ten million people
tuned into the finale of the latest or at least
I think the twenty sixteen finale, So it did get
(08:21):
people's attention. And obesity and overweight and America, that's these
are all issues. So you could say, Okay, we're trying
to tackle this problem. We're trying to bring awareness or
trying to show people that they can conquer their weight problems,
not with drugs, not with pills, not with some magic bullet,
but through hard work and discipline. And so that the
(08:41):
idea of it, I believe was noble to a degree,
But the question is was it healthy? Was it fair?
Was it like not even physically healthy, but was it
mentally healthy for these folks?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
And that you I think the transfermation we root for it.
We were rooting. I mean we were You're proud of
these folks. It's life altering to see that they were
pushed to a degree that they got the help they needed. Well,
most of these folks don't have the time and don't
have the sometimes money and the resources to get a
trainer to work with you, to tell you somebody about
your diet and have a doctor monitoring you, this is
(09:16):
a wonderful opportunity that they all had. I did not know.
And the way they put it, and that came out
in this documentary Robes, is that this was not a
show about getting healthy. This was a reality television competition, period,
and if you apply those rules to it, it means
all rules go out the door, because now it's just
(09:37):
a cutthroat competition to where people do what anything they
have to do to win. So it became that so
that principle that we apply to Survivor or even a
Love Island or whatever, you apply those reality show rules.
That's fine. You're stabbing people in the back, that's one thing.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Figuratively, of course, yes, But.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Doing it here you might be per damaging your health
and you might be putting your life at risk. The
way it's going that is just not something I think
a lot of people that registers. As you're clapping and
cheering as you see them every week losing ten pounds,
fifteen pounds, twenty pounds.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, no, it just it didn't cross my mind at least,
and I don't think it crossed a lot of folks minds,
but I do think it was. There was an interesting
point in this documentary where you have one of the
former contestants who it not just gained all his weight back,
but and he was one of the winners, excuse me,
of one of the seasons. I think it might have
been season seven, two.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Hundred and thirty nine pounds. It was the biggest loss
they had ever had in the show.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
So not only did he gain it back, but and
then some. And he went on to the documentary saying
there was no aftercare, there was no follow up, There
was no resource available to any of us contestants once
we went home. So we were in this controlled environment
where we were working out, you know, anywhere from four
to eight hours a day, with a restricted diet, with
being fully monitored. All of a sudden, now you're let
(11:01):
out back into your real world, and if you don't
have anyone helping you or at least guiding you in
that transition, it's almost as if you're doomed to fail.
But the producer said, yeah, that would have been great,
but that's not what we were doing. This is a
television show, and both sides make sense, Like they the
(11:23):
purpose of this show was not to monitor people and
their weight loss journey so that they could continue to
live a healthy and wonderful life. No, it was to
get ratings. And yes, people had amazing transformations in the process,
but the onus was then on them to do with
it as they would. But there wasn't an overreaching theme
(11:47):
or purpose, or it wasn't the goal to somehow create
some healthy living standard that they were going to continue
to foster and fuel.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Like No, and some of them admit it in some
of the interviews. Yeah, it was on me when I
left the show and Gain the Way back. Can't blame
anybody else but me for that. But I didn't realize
and rope so much of what they're talking about here
is that you're to hear that somebody who is wherever
three hundred plus pounds restricting himself to eight hundred calories
(12:16):
a day and burning five to six thousand, how can
you keep that up?
Speaker 2 (12:22):
It's not sustainable.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
And you're doing that fighting and calling because you're desperate
to get on the scale and let everybody see how
much weight you lost. And that's just not healthy.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Even the idea now today, imagine this where we are
putting people in a public setting where like millions of people,
as many as ten million people are watching you get
on a scale. Think about that. How many of us
in our regular lives step on a scale maybe once
a week whatever. How many people would you even want
(12:52):
in the room to see the number when you stand
on that scale, No one would want anyone else in
the room. There's such a private thing.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
And then being your underwear in front of millions.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
So I had never really considered, like, I don't want
to step on a scale in front of anyone else,
Like that's for me and my doctor to know. Period.
So the amount of courage and just and yeah, humiliation,
it would take it that weight to stand on a
big scale in front of the world in your yes underwear,
so to speak, or a very little and to do
(13:23):
that public that just that in and of itself seems cruel,
even if they want to do it. They were fighting
for it. There was a competition. People were lining up,
people were begging to be put on the show so
that they could change their lives. But they really for them. Yes,
it was a competition to your point, but I also
believe it was it was a life or death moment.
A lot of these people said that they wanted to
(13:44):
get on the show because they were they believed it
was the only way they could live, that this was
their chance at living.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Was it a young lady wanted to have a baby
as well. Yes, So these stories are are real, and
that's what made the show compelled. Yes, these are real
heartfelt stories you had. It's almost a case where, I mean,
so many reality shows we see we see the villain
here and we're rooting for that person or I like
camll like her, and you're rooting for everybody on the show.
You room for everybody to lose weight, everybody has a
(14:12):
great background it and you're hearing all these stories and
I don't know how much it taints it for me
in seeing this, but it doesn't. It doesn't seem like
what I thought it was. And when I hear it's
one thing. If I saw their stories later and I'm like, yeah,
and they're doing great, but to hear them tell their
own stories of how this show in a lot of
(14:32):
ways and ruin their lives but really really had a
negative impact on them.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, they had the sisters who won I don't remember
which season it was. They were one of the few
people who were on this documentary who said it saved
their lives. It was the best thing they had ever done.
Most of the folks who had gained all the weight
back said quite the opposite. I have to tell you,
as someone who did love this show, it's incredibly sad
to think that I was. You know, we were all
rooting for these folks. Look, even when you and I
(14:58):
are running right, I'm running a lot the West Side Highway.
I see people out there, sweating and pushing it and
trying to better their lives. I feel inspired watching them.
I think, you know a lot of us were, and
I do think that the trainers and the producers, I
think that people were rooting for folks. But to hear
and see what happened afterwards, to see that most of
like we're talking, what do they say, like twelve out
(15:21):
of fourteen from every season regained the weight.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I think it was it's close, but it was fourteen
out of sixteen.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Fourteen out of sixteen had.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Gained it all back, or some of them had even
gotten worse.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Right, And that is so sad to think that they
went through all of this, put themselves out there like this,
busted their asses like this, took time off of work
to better their lives, and without the proper I guess
I don't want to even say education, but guidance without
doing it in the right way, it ended up backfiring terribly,
(15:54):
and so many people profited and off of this, and
I think that's what also makes it feel so icky.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Had an next One analys if you will, during much
of it, and she was great and throughout the docu series,
but she made that point ropes that they were having
people doing very serious clinical work that did not have
the clinical background and the expertise to do it. So
you're talking about Gillian Michaels and Bob Harper, the two
(16:21):
trainers who were, yes, helping them physically, but then these
folks needed a lot of mental support as well, and
a lot of emotional support and they weren't getting it.
And they had it like a little clip. They little
series of clips they ran at one point showing like
some of the advice that the trainers were given to people,
and it sounded ridiculous. They just they wanted it to
(16:42):
sound ridiculous. I know what's on the inside, but now
you've turned that to something on the outside, and just
like you're not, these people have trauma. And there was
even Evan I'm not sure if they mentioned it here
where I'm remembering it. But folks who are obi's more
likely than not had some type of childhood trauma. You're
dealing with that type of thing in this environment, and
you have two trainers who are just saying it's going
(17:05):
to be roses and sunshine.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Not just that, though, We've got trainers who are in
their face, screaming at them, yelling at them. And look
at the time, you're thinking, it's tough love. I grew up,
I was a competitive gymnast at a young age. I
had coaches yelling in my face all the time, that
tough love mentality. So when I watched the show the
first time around, to me, that's what it reminded me of.
And I thought, you know, sometimes we all need someone
(17:28):
to give us that tough love, to say get and
stay on that treadmill and don't get. But now watching it,
it feels so different.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
There's a different It crosses a line to shaming and embarrassing.
So that crosses a line. Yeah, every coach is everybody's
competing in athletics, so that a coach in your face
yelling and you.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Don't quit, don't quit.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Even some folks out there who have hired a trainer.
That trainer will yell at you during your sal sergeants.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yes, people go to I used to go to a
class called Aikin's Army where that's exactly what happens.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yes, but this went to another level. But there were
parts of the docuseries, folks I was surprised by and
it led to possibly a deeper conversation and maybe all
of us needing to look inward a little bit when
it comes to as they say, fat people.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Welcome back to this edition of Amy and TJ where
we are talking about Fit for TV. It's the hot, hot,
hot Netflix TV series that goes behind the scenes of
that juggernaut of a show, The Biggest Loser on NBC,
and you start to see what was happening behind the scenes.
(18:49):
And there were a lot of allegations that have been
made that have not been proven. But certainly one person
in particular who chose not to be a part of
the documentary who was a huge face of the show,
Jillian Michaels, has now been speaking out.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Whit more so than the host Stephen Right. Wasn't she yes,
the breakout star of that show?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Is that fair to say she really was, And yes,
I loved her tough Love. I watched her, I thought, go,
Jillian go, I mean she was, and it made her
who she is today. Bob Harper, yes, also a star
from that. But Jillian really did steal the show, so
to speak. But I was going to give her exact quote.
After having watched the docuseries, she says she has zero
(19:27):
regrets about not doing it, because I would have simply
lent credibility to something that is an egregious lie. And
she also said she's in talks with the executive producers
of The Biggest Loser to do their own type of
documentary where she can share her side of the story
because she was she took much issue with how they
(19:48):
reported what was happening behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Okay, but she in particular with her right, it was
this idea that she was giving them caffeine pills to
help them lose weight.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Right, and so she does not that. But what she's
upset about is that on this documentary, if you watch it,
they absolutely discuss that it was illegal, or at least
it's not illegal to take caffeine pills, but it was
against the show's rules. The show's policies to provide caffeine
pills for contestants. Well, she actually goes on to her
(20:23):
Instagram to talk about the fact that that absolutely was
not true, that it was sanctioned and that it was allowed,
and she actually I'm sure, okay, yes she has she
here's an email chain with Bob Harper, the Biggest Losers producers, Uh,
doctor Huzenga's guy who is the doctor on the show,
(20:44):
who he did participate in the documentary, but his his
I guess his assistance on this. And then Sandy Crumb,
who stayed on the set with us and distributed the
Fat Burners Slash caffeine pills. And this was an email
about where to purchase these caffeine pills to give to
the contestants. And so she does have emails here saying
(21:06):
we just received the books and we'll be giving them
out today. That's I guess her book. Sandy has the
electro mix and bycarb do you still want Stacker two
or three? Stacker two or three those are the caffeine
pills and they're clearly shown in the documentary. I'll have
it for them first thing in the morning, thanks Julie.
And this was an email to Jillian, So she's saying
tip for them to say that it wasn't known, it
(21:29):
wasn't allowed, it wasn't sanctioned. She said, she became the
scapegoat for that unfairly.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
So well, they scolded her for it in one episode
of the show. They did, so they got it. Yeah,
she was penalized on the show.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
So it by four pounds or something like that.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
For her group. But I'm saying, how is she giving
us a receipt that shows that it was okay to
have caffeine pills when the show publicly came out mid
in the middle of the recording, in the middle of
the show and said, you are being punnish this so
obviously they stated you can't do it. I don't get
(22:04):
that part.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I don't get it because I see these emails and
she has you know, she's put them on her Instagram
so you can read them for what they are. I
don't know how that jibe's with. Yes, the public admonishment
that she got on the show, Maybe she just agreed
to let them do it. I don't know who knows
what actually happened behind the scenes on that one. Jillian
also was extremely upset. If you watched the documentary. They
(22:24):
talk about how when a contestant won that she whispered
in his hear ear, you're going to make me a millionaire.
And she got really upset about that. She said, it's
on camera. We both were miked, and she had all
these emails and all these texts where they went back
and forth and said, you did not say that. I
can absolutely, irrefutably like say that you never said those things.
(22:45):
So she was just frustrated that she was painted the
villain by a few contestants and by others. She even
put up her last text to Bob Harper, who didn't
say kind things about Jillian. I mean, it's gotten really ugly.
I guess bottom. I don't want to like prosecute and
litigate back and forth what's going on. But she is
certainly in defense mode, and she's putting up the receipts
(23:07):
and texts and emails to try and defend her position,
and she claims she's been unfairly vilified.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Well, no, she does not come off well at certain
points of this documentary. And she didn't get a chance
to speak for herself in that documentary, which I think
it would have made a difference I think it would
have been nice to have her voice as a part
of it, but she didn't trust that process and I
get it, But yeah, I would have loved as much
attention as this one is getting now to have had
her voice a part of it would have been nice,
(23:36):
I thought. But as much as we're talking about the
back of I mean the back and forth, what the
show was and who did what? I mean, this was
a conversation about how we view overweight folks in this country.
This really wasn't as much a conversation about health and
getting people healthy as much as how do we view
and just what it feels like to walk around all
(23:59):
the time over again. I don't have the young lady's
name in front of me, but this expert, this author
they were using was who admitted and she kept saying,
I've been a fat person all my life? Right, and
she used that term, she used it, and even that
part of it, I was thinking to myself, what is
that one of the things where they can say that
and no one else can even what's the proper thing
(24:20):
to say? What's the respectful thing to say? And just
it sparked more of a more questions in conversation with
us about how do you view folks who are overweight,
because they certainly have a feeling that you view them poorly.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
You know what. And she made that point to say,
these folks who were contestants were so desperate to be thin,
were so desperate to not be fat anymore, that they
put themselves in a position to be humiliated by some
of these temptations. I don't even remember that part of
the show, to be honest, but putting these contestants in
tempting situations and almost goating them to stuff their faces
(24:59):
with donuts and pizza and cookies, I mean, really, does
it get worse than that? Like that was so hard
to rewatch in the context of this documentary. And she
was saying, think about how those contestants must have felt,
but they did it anyway because that's how badly they
wanted to lose weight. And that really hit home for me.
(25:20):
She said, people like making fun of fat people. It's
just what they do. Are you trying to make me
look like a loser? I mean, even the name of
the show, I get it. It's cute, it's catchy in
a way, but on the other hand, it also is
cutting and mean and cruel and humiliating.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Oh god, I said again, I really wonder if somebody
even would attempt a show like this these days. I
think again, the you know what the the producer said,
he was the executive producer right his suggestion that if
we did this show, if we did it all over,
I wouldn't offer the two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
cash prize, he said, I would be absolutely adamantly against it.
(25:58):
Why don't we just help people. You shouldn't have to
be incentivized by money, just your health.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, he said, the victory the prize, money is your life,
is your health, better way of living? And he also
explained how the whole concept for the show began, which
I did not know this story that he was in
La he saw at a gym someone had posted a
sign that basically said, I'm obese, I need help. Can
can you help me? And it just sparked an idea, Wait,
(26:25):
we could help people on a show, people who don't
have access or financing for trainers and gyms and all that.
Let's let's do this. And that's what got him thinking
as a TV producer. He saw this genuine cry for help. Yes,
so I did think that it was you know, there
was some nobility in the idea behind it, the reasons
(26:46):
for coming up with the show idea, but even he
and everyone involved acknowledged that they made some major missteps
and the way the show was constructed. Specifically, they talked
about those temptations that that was not that was not
an okay thing to do.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
You know, if nothing else, like a doctor they said
at the end of the documentary, is that if nothing else,
this is a cautionary tale about the dangers of extreme diet.
That we just don't have shortcuts. And he joked actually
that if we did a show like this today, it
would just be people sitting around injecting themselves right exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
And look, and I do appreciate it or applaud the
fact that they were trying to potentially show folks that
if you if you it's not a diet, it can't
be a diet. If you change the way you eat,
if you change the way you move, you can live
a healthier life.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
These folks are doing the work they were, but extremely
so because they needed it to be on a timeline.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
You know, if you took your time, you did it slowly,
you did it in a way that could be. If
you're going to be losing weight, any expert will tell
you have to do it in a way that can
be maintained. If you're doing anything extreme, you're never going
to stay with it. You're never going to keep up
with it. It's just not possible. But it was was,
you know what, I it was educational. I think to
watch it just it was strange for me, having loved
(28:07):
the show and watched the show, to then see it
through this other lens. It it just reminds us all
to be kind and to be empathetic and to give
people a break.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
And this docu series is entertaining, but it's a it's
a good one. It's actually a good one, and you
learn something and there's some hard in there, and there's
a conversation that gets sparked, and even you'll ask yourself
some questions. So, yeah, we're not here too for all
of a sudden, we're giving a documentary recommendation.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Well, if you have some time, we would definitely give
it our samp of approval. It's I think it's a
good thing to watch.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I was gonna say, what's our thing gonna be? It's
that thumbs up and thumbs down. That's taken so stamp
of approval.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
That sounds really clinical. We'll have to come up with
something better than
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Right, folks, We'll talk to Y also
Hey, there are folks. It is the Netflix documentary. Folks
just can't seem to stop talking about And yes, everybody
seems to be talking about it, and so are we
now because that hit TV show Biggest Loser, what was
happening behind the scenes is quite frankly shocking and sad.
(00:23):
Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Rose. We
all remember the show. You said you were absolutely a
huge fan of this show. Do you remember what your
impressions of were of it then before you ever saw
this as a documentary.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yes, so when I mean, I loved this show because
it was watching people push past their fears and make
a change for the better, or at least that's what
it felt like. You watched people getting healthy. Now, yes,
there was some extreme conditions where you had trainers getting
(01:02):
tough with these I guess they were contestants, but people
who were fighting for their health, fighting for their life.
It wasn't just about what they looked like, but they
were actually fighting to live longer and to live better.
And so it was exciting to me to watch because
you were watching people, at least I thought I was
watching people improve their lives, make better choices, learn how
(01:26):
to work, not that they didn't know how to work hard,
but putting themselves in a position where they were putting
in the work and getting the results, and that felt satisfactory.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Way. But you're talking about the show as an inspiration,
which parts of it can be, But this is also
a show that put on and clearly and admittedly were
making fun of overweight people, putting them in positions to
be scarfing down food, to be committing, to be playing
little games in which they're having to carry food in
(01:55):
their mouths, or do all kinds of stuff humiliating things. Now,
your point is well taken. That's absolutely the case. But
did you not remember because I don't remember watching it
that closely, but back at the time, did the inspiration
always come through or did it often feel like a spectacle?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
No? I can so. I worked for NBC News while
this show was on, so we actually had so many
of the contestants and the trainers coming on the Today
Show and we would interview them and do segments with them.
So it was actually part of my work assignment to
watch it. But I enjoyed watching it, and I will
be honest, I never looked at it through a lens
(02:34):
of humiliation or parody, or that any of these people
were being made fun of. Now, watching the documentary, I
saw it from a completely different perspective. But I just
have to say, watching it, when I watched it the
times we were in it didn't really cross my mind
that these folks were being made fun of. I saw
them working their asses off. I was cheering them on
(02:57):
like That's how I felt. I was rooting for them.
I didn't want anyone to fail or to flub, or
to feel discouraged to the point where, yes, there was drama,
I mean, and that was that made the show entertaining
and interesting. But I didn't look at it through that lens.
But watching the documentary, it was it was cringe. Isn't
(03:17):
even perhaps a strong enough forward. I felt sad. I
felt I felt actually even bad for having enjoyed the
show as much as I did. I felt, I just
I saw it from a completely different perspective, and.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
We both felt like that show wouldn't beyond for seventeen
eighteen seasons, like it was if it were trying to
start today.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And it's yes, and it was too. It was only
two decades ago that it started, but so much has
changed in the world for the better, where we have
a better understanding of the CRUL, Like think about the
even the movies from the nineties, like things that were
said and scripts that were written and storylines that were
given would never be allowed in today's world because they
are offensive and they are stereotypical, and all of those
(04:00):
things can be said about this show now looking back
at it through a better way of understanding people.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So that's what they've done now with this docu series.
It's three episodes, pretty digestible when you say, what was it?
Three episodes about an hour each, so they don't really
go that long, and they flow and they move and
it's really interesting. So it's good watching. I mean, it's
very interesting. Even if you didn't watch the show or
we're a fan of it, it catches you up pretty
quickly and it's fascinating. So I guess some of the
(04:29):
major headlines that so many people are debating about having
to do with the extreme measures that some of these
contestants went through. We're getting more detail about that. It
was a contestant that almost died. I think she might
even describe herself as having died for a few minutes. Also,
this idea of these illegal pills caffeine pills that were
given to the contestants. Also many of them, we learn
(04:52):
just about all of them actually gained weight back. We
also learned the sum encouraged to gain weight before they
even went on the show. These there are just some
of the wow headlines robes coming out of this thing
and another thing coming out and looks a lot of
ire criticisms. Is director Towards is the one person who
wasn't in this documentary speaking for herself, one of the trainers,
(05:15):
of course, Jillian Michaels.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
And Jillian Michaels has been very outspoken since this series
came on to Netflix, mainly to defend herself. She says
she hasn't ruled out taking legal action, but she knows
that legal action is expensive. She did acknowledge that, so
it appears for now she's just going on her own
campaign defending herself. And she has, you know, receipts, she
(05:39):
has emails, she has texts, and she's putting them up
on her social media accounts to say what they're saying
about me isn't true. So she's extremely upset and folks
who love Jillian Michaels are upset on her behalf. Some
of the former contestants who weren't featured in this documentary
have also come along and spoken up in defense of
Jillian Michaels because she does get a little bit of
(05:59):
the bad guy rap here it. So you had Bob Harper,
who was the other trainer on the show. He participates
in the documentary, as does a show producer, and the
show's medical doctor also went on, so she was really
and the host of the show, so she was really
kind of the missing person in this documentary that would
(06:20):
have fully legitimized it. And she said, having watched it now,
she has zero regrets for not going on because she
says they're selling a pack of lies.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Well, there was a lot of folks who were interviewed,
and a lot of contestants who do have the same story,
who do tell the same story, and it was there
was a doctor that was on I kind of remember
which one it was where they said it's impossible you
cannot do a show about weight loss that's safe, and
so they were talking about this idea, so much of it.
You consider what we're talking about. They want a body
(06:56):
altering change in you in a period of time, six
months to think that people in six months lost fifty
one hundred, two hundred pounds, two hundred plus pounds. How
could would any doctor say you could safely do that?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I doubt it? And they, I mean, they did have
this doctor on the show to try and make sure
that contestants were as healthy as possible, but clearly, look,
it's one of the like did you ever watch Probably not,
but I'm just gonna throw this out. Did you ever
watch Extreme Makeover? Home Edition? Extreme make So? These extreme
makeover shows were really popular during that decade or so,
(07:36):
and it's as if they tried to take, you know,
someone getting a new haircut and new makeup and new
clothing or redesigning a house and take that same basically
cookie cutter template and apply it to weight loss because
everyone loves it before and after, at least a lot
of I can speak for women in magazines back in
the day, you'd have a before and after, and everyone
(07:56):
loved to see transformation change for the better. It's inspiring,
it's exciting, it makes you feel like you could do
it too. But they took that same type of format
and tried to put it on weight loss, and it worked.
Obviously the show was a huge success. Ten million people
tuned into the finale of the latest or at least
I think the twenty sixteen finale, So it did get
(08:21):
people's attention. And obesity and overweight and America, that's these
are all issues. So you could say, Okay, we're trying
to tackle this problem. We're trying to bring awareness or
trying to show people that they can conquer their weight problems,
not with drugs, not with pills, not with some magic bullet,
but through hard work and discipline. And so that the
(08:41):
idea of it, I believe was noble to a degree,
But the question is was it healthy? Was it fair?
Was it like not even physically healthy, but was it
mentally healthy for these folks?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
And that you I think the transfermation we root for it.
We were rooting. I mean we were You're proud of
these folks. It's life altering to see that they were
pushed to a degree that they got the help they needed. Well,
most of these folks don't have the time and don't
have the sometimes money and the resources to get a
trainer to work with you, to tell you somebody about
your diet and have a doctor monitoring you, this is
(09:16):
a wonderful opportunity that they all had. I did not know.
And the way they put it, and that came out
in this documentary Robes, is that this was not a
show about getting healthy. This was a reality television competition, period,
and if you apply those rules to it, it means
all rules go out the door, because now it's just
(09:37):
a cutthroat competition to where people do what anything they
have to do to win. So it became that so
that principle that we apply to Survivor or even a
Love Island or whatever, you apply those reality show rules.
That's fine. You're stabbing people in the back, that's one thing.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Figuratively, of course, yes, But.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Doing it here you might be per damaging your health
and you might be putting your life at risk. The
way it's going that is just not something I think
a lot of people that registers. As you're clapping and
cheering as you see them every week losing ten pounds,
fifteen pounds, twenty pounds.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, no, it just it didn't cross my mind at least,
and I don't think it crossed a lot of folks minds,
but I do think it was. There was an interesting
point in this documentary where you have one of the
former contestants who it not just gained all his weight back,
but and he was one of the winners, excuse me,
of one of the seasons. I think it might have
been season seven, two.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Hundred and thirty nine pounds. It was the biggest loss
they had ever had in the show.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
So not only did he gain it back, but and
then some. And he went on to the documentary saying
there was no aftercare, there was no follow up, There
was no resource available to any of us contestants once
we went home. So we were in this controlled environment
where we were working out, you know, anywhere from four
to eight hours a day, with a restricted diet, with
being fully monitored. All of a sudden, now you're let
(11:01):
out back into your real world, and if you don't
have anyone helping you or at least guiding you in
that transition, it's almost as if you're doomed to fail.
But the producer said, yeah, that would have been great,
but that's not what we were doing. This is a
television show, and both sides make sense, Like they the
(11:23):
purpose of this show was not to monitor people and
their weight loss journey so that they could continue to
live a healthy and wonderful life. No, it was to
get ratings. And yes, people had amazing transformations in the process,
but the onus was then on them to do with
it as they would. But there wasn't an overreaching theme
(11:47):
or purpose, or it wasn't the goal to somehow create
some healthy living standard that they were going to continue
to foster and fuel.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Like No, and some of them admit it in some
of the interviews. Yeah, it was on me when I
left the show and Gain the Way back. Can't blame
anybody else but me for that. But I didn't realize
and rope so much of what they're talking about here
is that you're to hear that somebody who is wherever
three hundred plus pounds restricting himself to eight hundred calories
(12:16):
a day and burning five to six thousand, how can
you keep that up?
Speaker 2 (12:22):
It's not sustainable.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
And you're doing that fighting and calling because you're desperate
to get on the scale and let everybody see how
much weight you lost. And that's just not healthy.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Even the idea now today, imagine this where we are
putting people in a public setting where like millions of people,
as many as ten million people are watching you get
on a scale. Think about that. How many of us
in our regular lives step on a scale maybe once
a week whatever. How many people would you even want
(12:52):
in the room to see the number when you stand
on that scale, No one would want anyone else in
the room. There's such a private thing.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
And then being your underwear in front of millions.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
So I had never really considered, like, I don't want
to step on a scale in front of anyone else,
Like that's for me and my doctor to know. Period.
So the amount of courage and just and yeah, humiliation,
it would take it that weight to stand on a
big scale in front of the world in your yes underwear,
so to speak, or a very little and to do
(13:23):
that public that just that in and of itself seems cruel,
even if they want to do it. They were fighting
for it. There was a competition. People were lining up,
people were begging to be put on the show so
that they could change their lives. But they really for them. Yes,
it was a competition to your point, but I also
believe it was it was a life or death moment.
A lot of these people said that they wanted to
(13:44):
get on the show because they were they believed it
was the only way they could live, that this was
their chance at living.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Was it a young lady wanted to have a baby
as well. Yes, So these stories are are real, and
that's what made the show compelled. Yes, these are real
heartfelt stories you had. It's almost a case where, I mean,
so many reality shows we see we see the villain
here and we're rooting for that person or I like
camll like her, and you're rooting for everybody on the show.
You room for everybody to lose weight, everybody has a
(14:12):
great background it and you're hearing all these stories and
I don't know how much it taints it for me
in seeing this, but it doesn't. It doesn't seem like
what I thought it was. And when I hear it's
one thing. If I saw their stories later and I'm like, yeah,
and they're doing great, but to hear them tell their
own stories of how this show in a lot of
(14:32):
ways and ruin their lives but really really had a
negative impact on them.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, they had the sisters who won I don't remember
which season it was. They were one of the few
people who were on this documentary who said it saved
their lives. It was the best thing they had ever done.
Most of the folks who had gained all the weight
back said quite the opposite. I have to tell you,
as someone who did love this show, it's incredibly sad
to think that I was. You know, we were all
rooting for these folks. Look, even when you and I
(14:58):
are running right, I'm running a lot the West Side Highway.
I see people out there, sweating and pushing it and
trying to better their lives. I feel inspired watching them.
I think, you know a lot of us were, and
I do think that the trainers and the producers, I
think that people were rooting for folks. But to hear
and see what happened afterwards, to see that most of
like we're talking, what do they say, like twelve out
(15:21):
of fourteen from every season regained the weight.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I think it was it's close, but it was fourteen
out of sixteen.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Fourteen out of sixteen had.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Gained it all back, or some of them had even
gotten worse.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Right, And that is so sad to think that they
went through all of this, put themselves out there like this,
busted their asses like this, took time off of work
to better their lives, and without the proper I guess
I don't want to even say education, but guidance without
doing it in the right way, it ended up backfiring terribly,
(15:54):
and so many people profited and off of this, and
I think that's what also makes it feel so icky.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Had an next One analys if you will, during much
of it, and she was great and throughout the docu series,
but she made that point ropes that they were having
people doing very serious clinical work that did not have
the clinical background and the expertise to do it. So
you're talking about Gillian Michaels and Bob Harper, the two
(16:21):
trainers who were, yes, helping them physically, but then these
folks needed a lot of mental support as well, and
a lot of emotional support and they weren't getting it.
And they had it like a little clip. They little
series of clips they ran at one point showing like
some of the advice that the trainers were given to people,
and it sounded ridiculous. They just they wanted it to
(16:42):
sound ridiculous. I know what's on the inside, but now
you've turned that to something on the outside, and just
like you're not, these people have trauma. And there was
even Evan I'm not sure if they mentioned it here
where I'm remembering it. But folks who are obi's more
likely than not had some type of childhood trauma. You're
dealing with that type of thing in this environment, and
you have two trainers who are just saying it's going
(17:05):
to be roses and sunshine.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Not just that, though, We've got trainers who are in
their face, screaming at them, yelling at them. And look
at the time, you're thinking, it's tough love. I grew up,
I was a competitive gymnast at a young age. I
had coaches yelling in my face all the time, that
tough love mentality. So when I watched the show the
first time around, to me, that's what it reminded me of.
And I thought, you know, sometimes we all need someone
(17:28):
to give us that tough love, to say get and
stay on that treadmill and don't get. But now watching it,
it feels so different.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
There's a different It crosses a line to shaming and embarrassing.
So that crosses a line. Yeah, every coach is everybody's
competing in athletics, so that a coach in your face
yelling and you.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Don't quit, don't quit.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Even some folks out there who have hired a trainer.
That trainer will yell at you during your sal sergeants.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yes, people go to I used to go to a
class called Aikin's Army where that's exactly what happens.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yes, but this went to another level. But there were
parts of the docuseries, folks I was surprised by and
it led to possibly a deeper conversation and maybe all
of us needing to look inward a little bit when
it comes to as they say, fat people.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Welcome back to this edition of Amy and TJ where
we are talking about Fit for TV. It's the hot, hot,
hot Netflix TV series that goes behind the scenes of
that juggernaut of a show, The Biggest Loser on NBC,
and you start to see what was happening behind the scenes.
(18:49):
And there were a lot of allegations that have been
made that have not been proven. But certainly one person
in particular who chose not to be a part of
the documentary who was a huge face of the show,
Jillian Michaels, has now been speaking out.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Whit more so than the host Stephen Right. Wasn't she yes,
the breakout star of that show?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Is that fair to say she really was, And yes,
I loved her tough Love. I watched her, I thought, go,
Jillian go, I mean she was, and it made her
who she is today. Bob Harper, yes, also a star
from that. But Jillian really did steal the show, so
to speak. But I was going to give her exact quote.
After having watched the docuseries, she says she has zero
(19:27):
regrets about not doing it, because I would have simply
lent credibility to something that is an egregious lie. And
she also said she's in talks with the executive producers
of The Biggest Loser to do their own type of
documentary where she can share her side of the story
because she was she took much issue with how they
(19:48):
reported what was happening behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Okay, but she in particular with her right, it was
this idea that she was giving them caffeine pills to
help them lose weight.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Right, and so she does not that. But what she's
upset about is that on this documentary, if you watch it,
they absolutely discuss that it was illegal, or at least
it's not illegal to take caffeine pills, but it was
against the show's rules. The show's policies to provide caffeine
pills for contestants. Well, she actually goes on to her
(20:23):
Instagram to talk about the fact that that absolutely was
not true, that it was sanctioned and that it was allowed,
and she actually I'm sure, okay, yes she has she
here's an email chain with Bob Harper, the Biggest Losers producers, Uh,
doctor Huzenga's guy who is the doctor on the show,
(20:44):
who he did participate in the documentary, but his his
I guess his assistance on this. And then Sandy Crumb,
who stayed on the set with us and distributed the
Fat Burners Slash caffeine pills. And this was an email
about where to purchase these caffeine pills to give to
the contestants. And so she does have emails here saying
(21:06):
we just received the books and we'll be giving them
out today. That's I guess her book. Sandy has the
electro mix and bycarb do you still want Stacker two
or three? Stacker two or three those are the caffeine
pills and they're clearly shown in the documentary. I'll have
it for them first thing in the morning, thanks Julie.
And this was an email to Jillian, So she's saying
tip for them to say that it wasn't known, it
(21:29):
wasn't allowed, it wasn't sanctioned. She said, she became the
scapegoat for that unfairly.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
So well, they scolded her for it in one episode
of the show. They did, so they got it. Yeah,
she was penalized on the show.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
So it by four pounds or something like that.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
For her group. But I'm saying, how is she giving
us a receipt that shows that it was okay to
have caffeine pills when the show publicly came out mid
in the middle of the recording, in the middle of
the show and said, you are being punnish this so
obviously they stated you can't do it. I don't get
(22:04):
that part.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I don't get it because I see these emails and
she has you know, she's put them on her Instagram
so you can read them for what they are. I
don't know how that jibe's with. Yes, the public admonishment
that she got on the show, Maybe she just agreed
to let them do it. I don't know who knows
what actually happened behind the scenes on that one. Jillian
also was extremely upset. If you watched the documentary. They
(22:24):
talk about how when a contestant won that she whispered
in his hear ear, you're going to make me a millionaire.
And she got really upset about that. She said, it's
on camera. We both were miked, and she had all
these emails and all these texts where they went back
and forth and said, you did not say that. I
can absolutely, irrefutably like say that you never said those things.
(22:45):
So she was just frustrated that she was painted the
villain by a few contestants and by others. She even
put up her last text to Bob Harper, who didn't
say kind things about Jillian. I mean, it's gotten really ugly.
I guess bottom. I don't want to like prosecute and
litigate back and forth what's going on. But she is
certainly in defense mode, and she's putting up the receipts
(23:07):
and texts and emails to try and defend her position,
and she claims she's been unfairly vilified.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Well, no, she does not come off well at certain
points of this documentary. And she didn't get a chance
to speak for herself in that documentary, which I think
it would have made a difference I think it would
have been nice to have her voice as a part
of it, but she didn't trust that process and I
get it, But yeah, I would have loved as much
attention as this one is getting now to have had
her voice a part of it would have been nice,
(23:36):
I thought. But as much as we're talking about the
back of I mean the back and forth, what the
show was and who did what? I mean, this was
a conversation about how we view overweight folks in this country.
This really wasn't as much a conversation about health and
getting people healthy as much as how do we view
and just what it feels like to walk around all
(23:59):
the time over again. I don't have the young lady's
name in front of me, but this expert, this author
they were using was who admitted and she kept saying,
I've been a fat person all my life? Right, and
she used that term, she used it, and even that
part of it, I was thinking to myself, what is
that one of the things where they can say that
and no one else can even what's the proper thing
(24:20):
to say? What's the respectful thing to say? And just
it sparked more of a more questions in conversation with
us about how do you view folks who are overweight,
because they certainly have a feeling that you view them poorly.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
You know what. And she made that point to say,
these folks who were contestants were so desperate to be thin,
were so desperate to not be fat anymore, that they
put themselves in a position to be humiliated by some
of these temptations. I don't even remember that part of
the show, to be honest, but putting these contestants in
tempting situations and almost goating them to stuff their faces
(24:59):
with donuts and pizza and cookies, I mean, really, does
it get worse than that? Like that was so hard
to rewatch in the context of this documentary. And she
was saying, think about how those contestants must have felt,
but they did it anyway because that's how badly they
wanted to lose weight. And that really hit home for me.
(25:20):
She said, people like making fun of fat people. It's
just what they do. Are you trying to make me
look like a loser? I mean, even the name of
the show, I get it. It's cute, it's catchy in
a way, but on the other hand, it also is
cutting and mean and cruel and humiliating.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Oh god, I said again, I really wonder if somebody
even would attempt a show like this these days. I
think again, the you know what the the producer said,
he was the executive producer right his suggestion that if
we did this show, if we did it all over,
I wouldn't offer the two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
cash prize, he said, I would be absolutely adamantly against it.
(25:58):
Why don't we just help people. You shouldn't have to
be incentivized by money, just your health.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, he said, the victory the prize, money is your life,
is your health, better way of living? And he also
explained how the whole concept for the show began, which
I did not know this story that he was in
La he saw at a gym someone had posted a
sign that basically said, I'm obese, I need help. Can
can you help me? And it just sparked an idea, Wait,
(26:25):
we could help people on a show, people who don't
have access or financing for trainers and gyms and all that.
Let's let's do this. And that's what got him thinking
as a TV producer. He saw this genuine cry for help. Yes,
so I did think that it was you know, there
was some nobility in the idea behind it, the reasons
(26:46):
for coming up with the show idea, but even he
and everyone involved acknowledged that they made some major missteps
and the way the show was constructed. Specifically, they talked
about those temptations that that was not that was not
an okay thing to do.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
You know, if nothing else, like a doctor they said
at the end of the documentary, is that if nothing else,
this is a cautionary tale about the dangers of extreme diet.
That we just don't have shortcuts. And he joked actually
that if we did a show like this today, it
would just be people sitting around injecting themselves right exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
And look, and I do appreciate it or applaud the
fact that they were trying to potentially show folks that
if you if you it's not a diet, it can't
be a diet. If you change the way you eat,
if you change the way you move, you can live
a healthier life.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
These folks are doing the work they were, but extremely
so because they needed it to be on a timeline.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
You know, if you took your time, you did it slowly,
you did it in a way that could be. If
you're going to be losing weight, any expert will tell
you have to do it in a way that can
be maintained. If you're doing anything extreme, you're never going
to stay with it. You're never going to keep up
with it. It's just not possible. But it was was,
you know what, I it was educational. I think to
watch it just it was strange for me, having loved
(28:07):
the show and watched the show, to then see it
through this other lens. It it just reminds us all
to be kind and to be empathetic and to give
people a break.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
And this docu series is entertaining, but it's a it's
a good one. It's actually a good one, and you
learn something and there's some hard in there, and there's
a conversation that gets sparked, and even you'll ask yourself
some questions. So, yeah, we're not here too for all
of a sudden, we're giving a documentary recommendation.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Well, if you have some time, we would definitely give
it our samp of approval. It's I think it's a
good thing to watch.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I was gonna say, what's our thing gonna be? It's
that thumbs up and thumbs down. That's taken so stamp
of approval.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
That sounds really clinical. We'll have to come up with
something better than
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Right, folks, We'll talk to Y also
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Zima
Chris Harrison
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