April 19, 2024 • 39 mins
Katie opens up about her divorce from Tom Schwartz like never before to Chris and Lauren, as they can relate being divorced themselves.
Katie agrees with Chris as he reveals his “armchair" diagnosis of Sandoval's issues
Plus, Katie is a Bachelor fan and gives an update on her status with Lala.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome everybody to the most dramatic podcast ever.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Today we have.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
On a woman who's was caught up last year and
continues to be caught up this year, and one of
the most dramatic headline making moments ever scanned of all.
Katie Maloney of vander Pump Rules is joining us to
discuss where the season's at right now. They are in
these first season since Tom Sandoval publicly it came out
(00:35):
that he was cheating on his partner of more than
a decade, Arianna, with their very good friend Raquel.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Katie and all.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Of the vander Pump Rules cast are in the middle
of figuring it all out. Will they welcome Tom back
into the fold? What does it look like when a
relationship of over a decade falls apart on TV and
in front of the world. And actually Katie herself dealt
with that with her husband, Tom Schwartz, so they got
divorced and they're.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Still dealing with that fallout on TV.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
A lot of lessons to take away and a lot
of questions about the inner workings of reality television.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
We are excited to have Katie Maloney on the show
today to dive into all of this and so much more.
There's Katie, Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
How are you good? I'm so glad this is finally happening.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I was looking back I DMD Katie today and I
was looking bad back at when I was dming her
around this time last year, going.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
I can't believe the way they're treating you on this
season of vander Fump Rules. They need to have more
respect for what you've been through. You know here it is.
Have you guys ever met No?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
No, it's good to meet you. It's great to meet you.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
It's really nice to meet you. I think for a
majority of my life, and.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I sadly you probably have. Yeah, you was probably when
you were three the show started.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
No, I don't know when it was, but I was
definitely young.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Were you a Bachelor fan?
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Katie?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Yeah. I sweahed with my mom, like from the beginning.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Oh really, yeah? Did you?
Speaker 4 (01:59):
So?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
It's funny. Did you think watching the Bacher Batchler tte
You're like, yeah, I'll do this someday or I wouldn't
mind getting into reality TV? Was that ever a thing
for you?
Speaker 4 (02:09):
No? I didn't. I never ever thought reality TV and
definitely never thought I'd do like the Bachelor Bachelor. No, yeah,
I didn't think I'd ever like I never thought it
was for me.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Did you ever think that this is something that's been
striking me about vander Pump Rules this season. They keep
cutting back to like ten year old footage and they'll
be like twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, and I'm like, oh
my gosh, vander Pump Rules has been on for over
a decade. Did you ever think the show would last
this long?
Speaker 4 (02:42):
No, I mean I hope, you know, for a long time.
It was just kind of like, I hope we get
another season. I hope. I'm as bach for another season.
But I think at this I mean, it's so hard
to get past the second season.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Even yeah, it's.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
So oversaturated, But even when our show first started, I
think we just were like, well, we may as well
try to make it the best we can and just
like really show up for it. I know.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
That's what's funny. People talk to me about the Bacheler
and the success, and it's like, well, you have to remember,
it's not a success. It's just vander Pump Rules, and
it's this new idea and the Bacheler was the same
way when it started, and you're just praying to God
you get season two, and then you're praying to God
you get season three, and you never feel like any
of it's promised to you. And part of that is
the networks and the studios are very good about never
(03:34):
allowing you to have power. They want to keep you
down and make you cared. Yeah, they want to make you.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Feel anyone could replace you at any moment, and everyone
wants this job.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
They always want to make you feel like you were replaceable,
even if you're not. But that is part of it,
and people kind of forget that. They just go, oh
my gosh, vander Pump, it's going to be or forever,
it's always going and you're you're a millionaire, and it's like, no,
I'm scared to death just hoping to keep my job.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Yeah, there's no job security, there's no like feeling complacent
or no, you're just you're constantly just like yeah, it's
a little terrible. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
They're never like Katie, we love you, We're gonna go ahead,
you know what, let's do a ten year deal like
you were in.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Well, you know what's interesting too, Katie that the parallels
are pretty similar. As I watch I've watched more reality
TV after I've left The Batcher probably than I ever
did before, maybe.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Because it was work for you before.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
And so now when I watch vander Pomper, I watch
these other shows, I'm like, you know what, vander Pump's
kind of similar in that it's a job and you
are hoping to be picked up for another season and
all those things that are business related, but it's also, Katie,
it's also your life, and it is your emotions and
it is your so it's it's very similar in that
way because people that go through it, you're really going
(04:45):
through it, and it's a job.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Yeah, And I think I think that's something that people
forget because they're just watching and being entertained and the
whole thing, and they're you know, they can get a
bit ravenous for it, and they want the instant gratific,
they want more, and I'm just like over here just
trying to get through it and repair my life and
repair friendships in between, and just you know, keep moving.
(05:12):
And it's it's so unconventional and I think people don't
understand how difficult it can be until they sign up
for it and then they're like, oh, wait a minute,
I don't if I like this.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
So Katie, I'm going to dive in and I'll tell
you I watched. I was behind. I watched all of
season two up till I'm now caught up. In the
last three days, I've watched what I know.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Lauren's been on a bender.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I've been in a dark place watching it. I've been
texting him like, is love real now?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
It's almost yet it's shaking up our marriage by the way.
It's like I kind of I.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Kind of do that sometimes though, because I have a
hard time. Sometimes there's so much on Bravo, and I
love Bravo, but I can't so sometimes I like hold
off on something and then I just binge it later.
But so here's my first question. I have been so struck.
Can you tell me how much time was it between
when the reunion was filmed from last season after scandaval
(06:11):
and when you guys started filming. How much time was there?
Speaker 4 (06:15):
It was roughly maybe a little over three months.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Oh three months, Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I've been struck by how quickly people seem to be
like people not you and Ariana seem to be welcoming
Tom Sandoval back into the fold like in the beginning,
in the first couple episodes. I mean, yes, there was,
but I was like, oh, people who were so angry
at him at the reunion have really changed their tune.
(06:44):
Was that striking to you. I mean I'm talking about
like Laala and like Shina. I just was a little shocked,
especially I think by Laala because she was so mad
at the reunion.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Yeah, it was. And it was being kind of position
to us of like, you know, I want to move
on and let go of anger, and I think, like
that's totally fair. I wasn't necessarily hanging on to it.
I had just made a decision about how I felt
about the person. I don't keep that person around, you know.
(07:17):
I was moving forward with the knowledge of who that
person is and whether or not they add value to
my life, and was just like, no, thanks. It wasn't
me holding onto anger. I don't. It's not like I
woke up every day and was like, must hate Tom
Sandibal and put all my into that decision. It just
was like, uh, yeah, I've collected that and this is
(07:39):
how I'm moving forward. So yeah, it was a little
shocking because I just I don't. I don't know. I
felt like I felt like they had to kind of
work extra hard to explain why they were kind of
opening themselves up to it. I was like, that feels
like a lot of work.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I don't, well, was that honestly? Is that just for
the show?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Was that because it's like, we've got to have Tom
Sandval back in here, because you know, we need this
narrative to continue, and so hey, we need you guys
to like welcome him back in. That's where my producer
awareness mind goes, which you have a better one than
me on that.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Well, and by the way, kudos to the producers, Like
and I know you guys didn't have anything to do
with it, but many shows would have said, Okay, after
this big scandal, we got to get rid of one
of them. You know, we're not bringing Tom back. I
thought it was a stroke of genius to bring him back.
They still have him on the show. I mean, as
a producer, I'm like, you got to include him. But yeah,
I think it's interesting. Did they ever talk to any
(08:33):
of you guys or was that just independently you just
figured individually this is how I'm going to treat it.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I mean whoever was going to come back or was
willing to come back. Of course they wanted to follow that.
I mean it is they wanted to see what the
aftermath was going to be and how that was going
to be navigated by everyone that was still involved. But
of course it was you know, everyone has their own
different feelings about it, and like I felt the way
I felt, and if there was going to be conversations
(09:05):
or should there be conversations obviously like this is who
was involved, so as many conversations that could we had,
they wanted to see that, but ultimately I was in
charge of what I was going to say.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, okay, let me ask this question. If the cameras
were not rolling, would Laala ever talk to Tom standerbal Again,
that's a good question. I'm like, maybe Sena would. I
think Shena maybe would.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Yeah. I mean again, I can agree with that. But
you know, I always try to do I always try
to look at things like would I do this if
cameras were not here?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I always want to do That's how you're living.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Yeah, And I mean like, yeah, there's and then there's
some things, Yeah, there's little things whatever. But for the
most part, I really have to. In order for me
to feel good about the things I'm saying and doing,
I need to like one hundred percent believe them.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah, do you think that? I don't think everybody operates
that way on the show. I so.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Tom Schwartz, your ex husband on the show. Still, you
guys seem to be in a better place this season.
How would you describe how things were for you now
versus last year and where you guys are at. It
seems a little lighter, a little more laughy, But how
are you?
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Yeah? I think just having a little more time put
between us, and you know, just healing from divorce and
more established boundaries has helped us a lot, because, you know,
we went from being married and husband and wife to
like trying to be friends, and.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
It was.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Difficult to do and he wasn't able to respect my
feelings and kind of the things I needed in order
to feel comfortable with that, and that heard a lot,
and so I had to kind of put a lot
of distance between us and remove access to my life
for him, and he understood that, and slowly we just
(11:14):
were kind of able to figure out some kind of
semblance and what that looked like a lot of it
had to do with our dogs. But we always had
like a really great friendship, and no one really got
to see a lot of that. They saw a lot
of the arguments and the fights and the bad stuff.
But we were together for a really long time and
there was a reason for that, and it was because
we did enjoy each other and we had love for
(11:36):
each other. And so what you're seeing now is that
what we kind of have that held us together a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Well, you all were married for ten years, right together, together.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Together for twelve years and married for almost six.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Yeah, so it's a long time.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
And I think that's what people forget. It's like, this
wasn't one of these reality show things where it's like, oh,
we got married in June and then by Christmas, weird
of void. It's not the Bachelor, So it's yeah, exactly,
so it's like, move on, get over it. It's like
this was a decade's plus long relationship and marriage. That
is something that is tough to mourn. It's tough to
(12:14):
go through as a normal human being where you could
remove yourself from a toxic situation and start to heal
yourself right, and you can put up those boundaries and
start working on boundaries. If you are put back into
a work situation publicly where we're shooting television, that is
that had to be unbelievably difficult for you. You had
(12:36):
to have some really hard times.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yeah, last year was incredibly difficult because I felt like
everyone kind of really rallied around him and forgot that
I was also struggling. And it wasn't easy. There was
I think, I in you know, the public guy. You know,
I was a lot tougher, so I was able to
(13:00):
kind of present myself as being very strong and because
I am, you know, I'm a tough bitch. But you know,
but it doesn't mean that I wasn't still struggling, or
I didn't go home and sob and you know, there
there's days of that. But I think people thought I
was trying to like control him because I had, you know,
certain things that I had put in place in order
(13:22):
to feel comfortable being in the environment of working together
and still co mingling, and people couldn't quite understand that.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
And I think strong people suffered, Katie, Like I think that.
I mean, I feel like, first of all, we kind
of live in this culture that like really rallies around
the victim, or at least who the perceived victim is.
But I think what ends up happening is when you're
the strong one, Well then people like they think you're fine,
(13:55):
and they don't worry about you, and they don't ask
you if you're okay because you're not like showing you're
not crying, you know, and so then you get forgotten,
a little bitter, you get ignored.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Did you feel that way?
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Yeah, because I also was the one that left or
asked for the divorce, So you know.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
There was because you made the smart decision, the mature decision.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
It was also like not something I necessarily. It wasn't
a decision I want, Like I didn't. No one wants
to get divorced. I wanted him to step up and
show up for me and be, you know, the partner
and the husband that I really wanted and was hoping
he could be. But when I realized that was probably
never going to happen, I had to make a decision.
I really didn't want to have to, but ultimately I
(14:38):
wanted to be happy and not be lonely inside of
a marriage that shouldn't be how it is. So I
was like, okay, well I could stay in this and
just feel kind of the way I have been feeling.
Or I could leave and rebuild and be happier alone,
or maybe find someone else.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I don't know, so I think, but that's a dynamic.
You live through something that most of us and I
say most of us because for most of ourse.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, I applaud you so much.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I can't imagine jumping back into a televised situation.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Well, when you go through a divorce, right, so say
it was your decision, and I know in this case
it was, Well, you would still have your life and
this is off camera where you would go, and you
would have your support system, right, your girls, your friends
would know, this is why Katie made this decision. We're
proud of you, we love you, we support you. There
is no martyr in the situation. There's no court of
(15:33):
public opinion. Typically, right, we just go our separate ways
and fight over the dogs. But in your situation, you
made what was probably a very brilliant, great move for
you. You should be applauded, you should be supported, and instead
it's the court of public opinion on television. Who's the martyr,
(15:55):
who's the victim, who's to blame? That's how we play
this on reality TV. So you went through some thing.
Maybe I don't know if unfair is the right word,
but just difficult to say the least.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yeah, And I don't know if it's just because I've
had to live so many like uncomfortable and so so
many of those moments already on TV that I was like, well,
here's another one. You know, we go sort of able
just to like kind of not tune it out, but
(16:27):
just it feels it's not new to me. But it
was a little difficult when I didn't feel like I
had the support of the people in the room with me,
and I was kind of going through that season just
feeling like is this for real? Like not like Lallah
and then Christina Kelly, but everyone was just really feeling
(16:50):
bad for him and forgetting, forgetting all the moments that
they'd been present for along the years, Like you guys
all know why I made the decision, like you were.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
There, well, and what is it where we think that
the person that made the decision because he's okay, like
like Katie's okay, Like she made this decision, so clearly
she's already gotten to the point where she's fine. She's
not hurting and she's she's not feeling anything. Oh poor him.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Well, and his history now repeating itself, because this is
how I felt like at the beach Day episode of
this season. It's like it is starting to feel like again,
like everyone's kind of rallying around Tom and pitying Tom
now and like thinking that, well, Arianna is fine, and
because she's got these like deals going on and she's fine,
and it's feeling like the same situation again.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Well yeah, And that's a lot of why I've like
really kind of sympathized and you know, wanted to be
really supportive of Arianna because everyone assumes, because you know,
she's getting these opportunities and seeming doing like very well
and that aspect, and she's met a really great guy
that that should make up for the heartbreak and the
(18:12):
trauma and everything, and it just it doesn't. It doesn't.
Someone can bounce back, and someone can rebuild, and someone
can do really great in therapy and healed doesn't mean
that it doesn't hurt, and it's not you know, really
like everyone goes through that. You're not. No one's immune to.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
That, right, well, yeah, no one. No one gets out
of this life un skate especially and when you're going
through divorce. It's Laura and I talk about this about,
you know, taking it to the kind of quote unquote
real world of when say someone in your neighborhood gets divorced,
and with that social dynamic, where do you fit in?
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Right?
Speaker 1 (18:53):
You want to empathize and you want to sympathize with both,
but it's like, you know, how do I treat both
of them? Am I still friends with him? And am
I still friends with her? That's always it's and so
it's fascinating to watch this play out on vander Pump,
but it's you know, we all go through this to
a certain degree.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
That's why Tom and I were like, well, I don't
pick sides because we it was very peaceful between us.
Really don't pick a side. And that's when people did
pick aside. I was like, wait a minute, he specifically side.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, I've seen headlines that your ex husband, Tom Schwartz
is dating someone else.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Where are you at with that? Like he's okay.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
What's interesting is we're watching him say on this season
right now that he's not ready for a relationship, Like
that's why he's not with this Joe person. He's saying
that he's not ready for something. Do you think he's
ready for a relationship now? Has he changed? Has he growned?
I don't know how much. You guys still talk and
like is this a serious thing?
Speaker 4 (19:50):
What a typical guy thing to say, a relationship? And
then it's like the next week they were like in one.
I don't want be like the authority on what is
good for him was bathroom. I want him to be happy. Ultimately,
I do feel like he's still very unsure about why
(20:14):
we fell apart. I feel like I don't think he
really understands his part in that is. I feel like
he could really benefit from therapy. I think he kind
of uh runs from those deep feelings, from that emotional
(20:37):
part of it, And so I think before maybe just
getting into a relationship, I think maybe unpacking that a bit,
maybe sitting with that for a moment because it was you.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Know, traumatic, sounds too soon to you?
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Well, I mean, I don't. I don't know. Again, like
I don't. I don't want to be the one that
you say he should or shouldn't right, And who knows.
I mean, maybe it'll work out in point, maybe this
will help heal him.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I don't know, but you're so right that you can't,
Like you just hit the nail on the head of
what it's so simple but so brilliant what you're saying.
You're not going to have a successful Like it's like
the definition of being crazy is doing the same thing
over and over again expecting different results. You're not going
to have a successful relationship if you didn't figure out
what went wrong, what you were doing wrong in the past.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, I think it's you think it's this person. You
think it's this person. You think it's this person. Finally
you've got to stare in the mirror and realize, oh,
it's that person.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Has it been weird though for you to just watch
your ex start dating again? That's always Again, that's something
that we've all been through. We're all divorced. It's there's
always that awkwardness. And again, we don't have to do
it on national television.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
I mean, at first it was a little weird, like
the thought of it, but at this point, like, no,
but do I want to be around them and hang out? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Do I want to follow it on social media and
well show.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
I don't really want to like double date or like
it's kind of like I should be able to separate
from it.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And yeah, but you know, the producers are never going
to let you separate from that.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
I know. But it's just like, but only because for me,
it's like I feel like people are like assuming that
I'm gonna like be mean or bully her or have
all these opinions. And it's just like, I mean, of
course I I'll have opinions of everybody in who they date.
It's not just going to be Tom. But and that's
and that's why I just like I kind of just
like resent having to be around it because it doesn't
(22:42):
matter like what I say or do, It doesn't matter
if I'm get along with her, great that they'll think
that there's some other I'll interior motive. I just feel
like I can do no wrong or do no right,
and so it's just kind of like I just want
to like have a little separation there. You know.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Okay, I'm asking you one more question, even though I
really appreciate your like, I don't know what I should say.
But you also know both of these men very well.
You've known them for well over a decade. Is Shorts
and Sandoval's friendship inhibiting both of them from like doing
exactly what you're talking about and growing you know what
(23:20):
I'm saying. Well, like they're talking about potentially moving in together.
That's in the most recent episode, and I'm sitting there
being like, this is like they're what they're speaking into
existence is like the La Peter Pan never growing up thing?
And are they both like keeping each other in this place?
(23:40):
Is this healthy for them? How can they move forward
and start growing up? Is it possible?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Yeah, that's a terrible idea, I mean them living together.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Yeah, I feel like there's a bit of like arrested
development between those two. I feel that, you know, Tom Shorts,
he almost he doesn't want to call Tom out on
his bad behavior and his mistakes, and that's I feel
like that's such an issue in a friendship because I
(24:15):
think you should be able to be very real and
upfront with your friends, especially when they behave that way.
And the fact that he was just so reluctant to
do so and separate himself in such a brutal time,
like was really eye opening, very illuminating as to like
what goes on in that friendship. And I think just potentially, yeah,
(24:40):
and that's what I'm curious about too with like another
like relationship. It's like, well, if Tom gets heavily involved
with someone else, unlet's say sanevel like starts to feel
like that's a threat to him or their brand or
their business, Like is he going to treat her the same? Well?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I know, good, like what you just said, I know
you felt like and it's still being talked about this
season and that Sandoval and like the business really affected
you all's marriage and relationship.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
Well yeah, I mean because he just acted like I
wanted to come in and control things. But I just
just wanted to help out and be involved because like
why not, you know, I wanted it was My intentions
were good and pure, but he acted like I was
trying to come in and like mess it all up. Yeah,
(25:27):
very weird about it and felt just threatened. I don't know.
So yeah, it did cause issues, and because Tom Schwartz
just kind of started to go with his perspective and
view on it as well. Well.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I mean we're also watching Tom's Sandoval talk about starting
to date again this season, and I'm sitting there watching
him going, Okay, he's definitely not ready to get in
another relationship, Like what is this storyline.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
The way he do we call it? According hits On,
it is remarkable.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Is growth possible for Schwartz? Is growth possible for Sandoval?
Because then word narcissist has been used a lot, and
I think what we've the basic level of what you
know about a narcissist is like they can't really change.
So what do you think what is the possibility for
each of them?
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Again? I think I think therapy. I think doing some
like real like shadow work, like really meeting the dark
parts of yourself so you can see those bits of yourself.
You know. I don't know if they really met themselves.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, well, I mean with Sandoval truly, just from what
I've seen from the outside, just seems like you hit
the nail on the head, the ultimate Peter pan La guy.
He is so sucked into that world and when it
envelops you and you don't get out of it. And
people from the outside looking at her like bro, yeah,
get off the stage at the Whiskey Room.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Well, I was very excited to see that you were
bringing the espresso martini to Chili's. I mean, people have
a love for Chili's and it comes from for me,
it's from the Office from the famous office episode of
Chili's where Pam has such a good time. How did
the Espresso, Martini and Chili's partnership start? Because I've never
(27:37):
seen people have such a positive reaction.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
To a partnership on the internet.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Everyone I follow was like, yes, this is exactly what
I needed.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
No, right, well, yeah, I mean like Shina definitely has
her history with Chili's and know she worked there in college,
which is awesome. I mean I've been going to chili
since I can remember. Yeah, I mean they have the
best ships I've ever had. But yeah, so she has
(28:06):
that history. I have a history with tequila, and you know,
Spress Martinez are like having such a moment and I've
always swapped the vodka for tequila. I am a Reposoto girl.
I just think the flavor on that is so like
just rich and smooth and just slightly sweet. So pairing
that with the espresso and then the spiced rum just
(28:26):
kind of I don't know, it just it elevates it
in a way.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
That's what I do. I do the tequila. And then
when I heard the rum was an addition? What does
the rum bring to it? Because this I've never tried.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
I mean it's just like it's it's a spiced rum.
So it's just it just is ever so slightly has
that spice because have you ever put like cinnamon in coffee? Oh?
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yes, yeah, it's just.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Like a little kiss of like that. You know.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I grew up going to the original Chilies. I grew
up in Dallas and the original Chilies was on Greenville Avenue.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Such a weird fact.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Across from where I played soccer as a kid. I mean,
I'm talking five years old, there was an old burger
stand called Chili's. We would go afterwards and get burgers there.
And then they knocked that old stand down and they
built the first when they went chain and they went
or you know, in National And so I grew up
going to the original Chili's as a kid, the first one.
(29:21):
And by the way, sadly they took it knocked down,
it's gone, it's closed. You're the very first one.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Well they did that wrong, but they're doing right by
bringing us the espress of our tenis.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah, there you go. By the way, enough about the guys,
what about you and love and relationships?
Speaker 4 (29:40):
You know, I'm I'm just really trying to make my
life exciting and full and do things that I'm you know,
having fun and feel like excited to, you know, like
other it's hobbies or reconnecting with friends or meeting new people.
Just yeah, that's that's what I'm looking forward to. And
(30:00):
if I meet someone great, you know, I mean what
I like to sure, but I want to make sure
that they add value to my life. I'm not like
on apps trying to just date and meet someone. I'm
just you know, I'm I don't know if that feels
like really draining.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Okay, not doing the apps.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
No, I like to meet people like in outside in
the world.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Do you feel like you're in a healthy, good place
now or do you feel like you're being a healthy
emotional individual and you're still dealing with unpacking the divorce
before I move on?
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Oh no, I feel like I'm definitely like in a
place now.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Like you're open to finding love. Yeah, okay, yeah, No.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
I feel like now I could actually have someone come
in and I have the space and availability to that.
But again, they got to add to my life.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Because you've spent much of your adult life dating on
reality TV, is there anyone in the reality TV world
who you might be interested in, like if it was
like you met them at a at a party and
you know, like anybody else is on any other TV shows,
Maybe should we be looking outside vander Pump.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
Rules in the reality world.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Yeah no, She's like, no, absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
No, Katie has the best looks, like you never know,
you never have to worry about her poker face. I
know what she's thinking.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Okay, we've checked in on the past, the love life present,
I need to check in on the friendships. Why has
Lala unfollowed you? This is I am so baffled. I'm
so confused because I'm watching the show and everyone seems
really good and now then I just saw the headlines
as I was researching for this podcast that she has
unfollowed you and Arianna.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
I think she said that she has two point something.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
I don't okay, she was like, I was following an
uneven number of people needed to be something like that.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Katie, what is really happening? What what you've known each
other for years? What what is going on?
Speaker 4 (32:11):
I don't. I don't know. I mean, I was obviously
like at the reunion things get eeded and there's drama,
but this I didn't. I am a little confused, and
I don't I don't mean to be like ignorant about it,
but like, I just I don't understand it.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Like did you text her and say why did you
you've unfollowed me?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
What's happened?
Speaker 4 (32:32):
No?
Speaker 3 (32:32):
No?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Okay, well what are you guys talking right now? Like
would you or no?
Speaker 4 (32:41):
No? No?
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Is there future reconciliation possible?
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Well? I think she said if she ever wants to
be miserable again, we could be friends.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
That doesn't sound like friends, Okay, I.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
Just we we were great postseason, like all of it,
and then yeah, I just I didn't know that there
was so many issues.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
So Jack's was also there was a video that went
everywhere of him like last week saying that the Valley
is so much more real than vander Pump Rules, And
you guys aren't even friends and you don't even hang
out outside of the show.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
What do you say to that?
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Oh, I don't think everyone on our show hangs out
after I mean, like we were fractured before the show
even started. You're seeing how fractured we are, so like
that's true, But I don't. I think he was saying
that our show was like scripted and things like that,
but I don't that. Man, does anyone believe anything that
comes up as now?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
He Well, no, I honestly, you know what I actually
I meant to ask you about it, babe, because some
people were like messaging us and being like, Okay, so
is how scripted? Is reality TV or not? But you
would never say the Bachelor?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
No.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
But it's like all these shows are different, Like, I
have no idea. I don't know anybody who produces on
vander Pump and I've never been on it, so you know,
I never know. You know, there are shows that are
extremely produced, extremely scripted, and then there's shows that are
more game oriented, and so it's the opposite side of
the spectrum. Then there's stuff like vander Pump and Bachelor
that probably fall in the middle. Yes, stuff is created,
(34:21):
it's produced. The moments that Katie's put in are produced
and set up, and then what they do in that
and what they say in how they live their lives
is up to them. I assume.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Yeah, I don't. I can walk into a scene and
say whatever I want to say, Like I like, I
get to feel how I want to feel, So I mean, yeah,
some people I don't know if they want to like
decide that they want to do something crazy then thens
(34:51):
up to them. But like me personally, I like to
just I have conviction.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I love when they cut to a Katie interview at Katie,
I TM, it's just.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Like, you're the comedic relief that we need. You're the
like and I don't think you get enough credit for that.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
I'm like, Katie is the comedic narrator I needed in
this moment, and thank you.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
I don't need to take I think it's very dry.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
So it goes like, well, then we just need to
find you a better venue than vander pump Role's.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
So Katie.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Some people who listen to this, of course, will be
avid fans. Some people are just like listening to hear
about relationships and learn and as someone who's had the
experience you've had, because again I just want to like, note,
you were with someone for well over a decade, you've
done you have this incredible like relationship experience under your
belt now a little bit removed from the divorce moment,
(35:47):
What advice would you give? What advice would you give
yourself if you could go back and tell her anything,
or anybody who might be in your position of they're
in their thirties and like, I got divorced at thirty,
what would you tell this person who's maybe in this
middle place of like, well, oh, this big thing I
thought was forever ended and now I'm kind of reinventing
myself a little bit in my thirties.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Oh I think that. I mean it is. It is
like so difficult and it can be confusing, and I
know that like for some people they have a lot
more to consider, they have maybe like children or other
things like that. But I think at the end of
(36:27):
the day, like you have to I don't want to say,
like choose yourself, but you know what's best for yourself,
and you have like one life and if you try,
if you looked at it and been like this is
this is the kind of like marriage I want or
(36:49):
partner I want. And you've expressed to that person that
they're not showing up, and you've explored every option and
you've given everything you can't like you got to choose
us all. There's nothing more lonely or isolating than being
in something like that. So I think just tuse yourself.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Love that perfectly put succinct and perfect as the Katie
Maloney delivery is. Thank you so much. I'm so glad
we got to talk to you today, and thank you
for doing the work out there on vander Pump Rules.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
For all of us.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
You are yeah, you are doing the work for all
of us, and it was nice to meet you and
you're an absolute treat. Truly appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Well, thank you. I'm very glad that this happened finally.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
I know now we're going to go on a date
night to Chili's tonight, expresso martini.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Thank you, Katie. I'm so glad we got to talk.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Thank you to Katie Babe. Maybe we might need to
set Katie up with someone.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
I think so, I felt, I felt that. I feel. Well,
here's what's funny, and it's what makes the vander Pump
show so good. Is the boys right that they're such
boys their children?
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Oh you mean like not the met but the boys.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
The boys. The men are not men, they're boys. They're
silly little boys. And the women you can just tell,
like there's such an emotional intelligence. They're like they're operating
at such a higher level. And that's most women and
most men. I will agree to that. But it's just funny.
That she is so thoughtful about where she is in
her life and where she is as far as finding
love again. And then you look at shorts and scand
(38:22):
of all and they're like, bro, we should move in together.
This will be awesome. We'll get bunk beds. Oh my god,
I'll put up this poster like that's where they are.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
You're right, it is stepbrothers.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Yeah, And then she's like, well, I thought about this.
I'm really im worked on myself, and I'm like, oh
my god, it's just night and day.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
You're right.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
And it's interesting because like at first, actually as we
were doing the podcast, I was thinking, you know, I
do think part of this is this group of friends
has been in the same group since their early twenties,
and I do think we as people, and I mean
everybody you need to like meet new people, have different friends.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
I'm not saying don't hold on to your friends, but.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
You got to grow though, expose yourself to different people
because that makes you forces you to grow as a person.
And they it's the show, is their job, so they've
kind of stayed in this group, and I think that
can be a hindrance.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
But as you've just pointed out, the women have.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Grown and the men have gone through the same stuff,
but you're not hearing them make the same poignant observations
and comments.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
It's very interesting.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Peter Pan doesn't grow up.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Well, luckily Wendy got out of there.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Okay, thank you everybody, and we'll talk to you next.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Time because we have a lot more to talk about.
Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most
dramatic pod ever, and make sure to write us a
review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you
next time.
This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome everybody to the most dramatic podcast ever.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Today we have.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
On a woman who's was caught up last year and
continues to be caught up this year, and one of
the most dramatic headline making moments ever scanned of all.
Katie Maloney of vander Pump Rules is joining us to
discuss where the season's at right now. They are in
these first season since Tom Sandoval publicly it came out
(00:35):
that he was cheating on his partner of more than
a decade, Arianna, with their very good friend Raquel.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Katie and all.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Of the vander Pump Rules cast are in the middle
of figuring it all out. Will they welcome Tom back
into the fold? What does it look like when a
relationship of over a decade falls apart on TV and
in front of the world. And actually Katie herself dealt
with that with her husband, Tom Schwartz, so they got
divorced and they're.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Still dealing with that fallout on TV.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
A lot of lessons to take away and a lot
of questions about the inner workings of reality television.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
We are excited to have Katie Maloney on the show
today to dive into all of this and so much more.
There's Katie, Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
How are you good? I'm so glad this is finally happening.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I was looking back I DMD Katie today and I
was looking bad back at when I was dming her
around this time last year, going.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
I can't believe the way they're treating you on this
season of vander Fump Rules. They need to have more
respect for what you've been through. You know here it is.
Have you guys ever met No?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
No, it's good to meet you. It's great to meet you.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
It's really nice to meet you. I think for a
majority of my life, and.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I sadly you probably have. Yeah, you was probably when
you were three the show started.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
No, I don't know when it was, but I was
definitely young.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Were you a Bachelor fan?
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Katie?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Yeah. I sweahed with my mom, like from the beginning.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Oh really, yeah? Did you?
Speaker 4 (01:59):
So?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
It's funny. Did you think watching the Bacher Batchler tte
You're like, yeah, I'll do this someday or I wouldn't
mind getting into reality TV? Was that ever a thing
for you?
Speaker 4 (02:09):
No? I didn't. I never ever thought reality TV and
definitely never thought I'd do like the Bachelor Bachelor. No, yeah,
I didn't think I'd ever like I never thought it
was for me.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Did you ever think that this is something that's been
striking me about vander Pump Rules this season. They keep
cutting back to like ten year old footage and they'll
be like twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, and I'm like, oh
my gosh, vander Pump Rules has been on for over
a decade. Did you ever think the show would last
this long?
Speaker 4 (02:42):
No, I mean I hope, you know, for a long time.
It was just kind of like, I hope we get
another season. I hope. I'm as bach for another season.
But I think at this I mean, it's so hard
to get past the second season.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Even yeah, it's.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
So oversaturated, But even when our show first started, I
think we just were like, well, we may as well
try to make it the best we can and just
like really show up for it. I know.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
That's what's funny. People talk to me about the Bacheler
and the success, and it's like, well, you have to remember,
it's not a success. It's just vander Pump Rules, and
it's this new idea and the Bacheler was the same
way when it started, and you're just praying to God
you get season two, and then you're praying to God
you get season three, and you never feel like any
of it's promised to you. And part of that is
the networks and the studios are very good about never
(03:34):
allowing you to have power. They want to keep you
down and make you cared. Yeah, they want to make you.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Feel anyone could replace you at any moment, and everyone
wants this job.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
They always want to make you feel like you were replaceable,
even if you're not. But that is part of it,
and people kind of forget that. They just go, oh
my gosh, vander Pump, it's going to be or forever,
it's always going and you're you're a millionaire, and it's like, no,
I'm scared to death just hoping to keep my job.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Yeah, there's no job security, there's no like feeling complacent
or no, you're just you're constantly just like yeah, it's
a little terrible. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
They're never like Katie, we love you, We're gonna go ahead,
you know what, let's do a ten year deal like
you were in.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Well, you know what's interesting too, Katie that the parallels
are pretty similar. As I watch I've watched more reality
TV after I've left The Batcher probably than I ever
did before, maybe.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Because it was work for you before.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
And so now when I watch vander Pomper, I watch
these other shows, I'm like, you know what, vander Pump's
kind of similar in that it's a job and you
are hoping to be picked up for another season and
all those things that are business related, but it's also, Katie,
it's also your life, and it is your emotions and
it is your so it's it's very similar in that
way because people that go through it, you're really going
(04:45):
through it, and it's a job.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Yeah, And I think I think that's something that people
forget because they're just watching and being entertained and the
whole thing, and they're you know, they can get a
bit ravenous for it, and they want the instant gratific,
they want more, and I'm just like over here just
trying to get through it and repair my life and
repair friendships in between, and just you know, keep moving.
(05:12):
And it's it's so unconventional and I think people don't
understand how difficult it can be until they sign up
for it and then they're like, oh, wait a minute,
I don't if I like this.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
So Katie, I'm going to dive in and I'll tell
you I watched. I was behind. I watched all of
season two up till I'm now caught up. In the
last three days, I've watched what I know.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Lauren's been on a bender.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I've been in a dark place watching it. I've been
texting him like, is love real now?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
It's almost yet it's shaking up our marriage by the way.
It's like I kind of I.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Kind of do that sometimes though, because I have a
hard time. Sometimes there's so much on Bravo, and I
love Bravo, but I can't so sometimes I like hold
off on something and then I just binge it later.
But so here's my first question. I have been so struck.
Can you tell me how much time was it between
when the reunion was filmed from last season after scandaval
(06:11):
and when you guys started filming. How much time was there?
Speaker 4 (06:15):
It was roughly maybe a little over three months.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Oh three months, Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I've been struck by how quickly people seem to be
like people not you and Ariana seem to be welcoming
Tom Sandoval back into the fold like in the beginning,
in the first couple episodes. I mean, yes, there was,
but I was like, oh, people who were so angry
at him at the reunion have really changed their tune.
(06:44):
Was that striking to you. I mean I'm talking about
like Laala and like Shina. I just was a little shocked,
especially I think by Laala because she was so mad
at the reunion.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Yeah, it was. And it was being kind of position
to us of like, you know, I want to move
on and let go of anger, and I think, like
that's totally fair. I wasn't necessarily hanging on to it.
I had just made a decision about how I felt
about the person. I don't keep that person around, you know.
(07:17):
I was moving forward with the knowledge of who that
person is and whether or not they add value to
my life, and was just like, no, thanks. It wasn't
me holding onto anger. I don't. It's not like I
woke up every day and was like, must hate Tom
Sandibal and put all my into that decision. It just
was like, uh, yeah, I've collected that and this is
(07:39):
how I'm moving forward. So yeah, it was a little
shocking because I just I don't. I don't know. I
felt like I felt like they had to kind of
work extra hard to explain why they were kind of
opening themselves up to it. I was like, that feels
like a lot of work.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I don't, well, was that honestly? Is that just for
the show?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Was that because it's like, we've got to have Tom
Sandval back in here, because you know, we need this
narrative to continue, and so hey, we need you guys
to like welcome him back in. That's where my producer
awareness mind goes, which you have a better one than
me on that.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Well, and by the way, kudos to the producers, Like
and I know you guys didn't have anything to do
with it, but many shows would have said, Okay, after
this big scandal, we got to get rid of one
of them. You know, we're not bringing Tom back. I
thought it was a stroke of genius to bring him back.
They still have him on the show. I mean, as
a producer, I'm like, you got to include him. But yeah,
I think it's interesting. Did they ever talk to any
(08:33):
of you guys or was that just independently you just
figured individually this is how I'm going to treat it.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I mean whoever was going to come back or was
willing to come back. Of course they wanted to follow that.
I mean it is they wanted to see what the
aftermath was going to be and how that was going
to be navigated by everyone that was still involved. But
of course it was you know, everyone has their own
different feelings about it, and like I felt the way
I felt, and if there was going to be conversations
(09:05):
or should there be conversations obviously like this is who
was involved, so as many conversations that could we had,
they wanted to see that, but ultimately I was in
charge of what I was going to say.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, okay, let me ask this question. If the cameras
were not rolling, would Laala ever talk to Tom standerbal Again,
that's a good question. I'm like, maybe Sena would. I
think Shena maybe would.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Yeah. I mean again, I can agree with that. But
you know, I always try to do I always try
to look at things like would I do this if
cameras were not here?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I always want to do That's how you're living.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Yeah, And I mean like, yeah, there's and then there's
some things, Yeah, there's little things whatever. But for the
most part, I really have to. In order for me
to feel good about the things I'm saying and doing,
I need to like one hundred percent believe them.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah, do you think that? I don't think everybody operates
that way on the show. I so.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Tom Schwartz, your ex husband on the show. Still, you
guys seem to be in a better place this season.
How would you describe how things were for you now
versus last year and where you guys are at. It
seems a little lighter, a little more laughy, But how
are you?
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Yeah? I think just having a little more time put
between us, and you know, just healing from divorce and
more established boundaries has helped us a lot, because, you know,
we went from being married and husband and wife to
like trying to be friends, and.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
It was.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Difficult to do and he wasn't able to respect my
feelings and kind of the things I needed in order
to feel comfortable with that, and that heard a lot,
and so I had to kind of put a lot
of distance between us and remove access to my life
for him, and he understood that, and slowly we just
(11:14):
were kind of able to figure out some kind of
semblance and what that looked like a lot of it
had to do with our dogs. But we always had
like a really great friendship, and no one really got
to see a lot of that. They saw a lot
of the arguments and the fights and the bad stuff.
But we were together for a really long time and
there was a reason for that, and it was because
we did enjoy each other and we had love for
(11:36):
each other. And so what you're seeing now is that
what we kind of have that held us together a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Well, you all were married for ten years, right together, together.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Together for twelve years and married for almost six.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Yeah, so it's a long time.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
And I think that's what people forget. It's like, this
wasn't one of these reality show things where it's like, oh,
we got married in June and then by Christmas, weird
of void. It's not the Bachelor, So it's yeah, exactly,
so it's like, move on, get over it. It's like
this was a decade's plus long relationship and marriage. That
is something that is tough to mourn. It's tough to
(12:14):
go through as a normal human being where you could
remove yourself from a toxic situation and start to heal
yourself right, and you can put up those boundaries and
start working on boundaries. If you are put back into
a work situation publicly where we're shooting television, that is
that had to be unbelievably difficult for you. You had
(12:36):
to have some really hard times.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yeah, last year was incredibly difficult because I felt like
everyone kind of really rallied around him and forgot that
I was also struggling. And it wasn't easy. There was
I think, I in you know, the public guy. You know,
I was a lot tougher, so I was able to
(13:00):
kind of present myself as being very strong and because
I am, you know, I'm a tough bitch. But you know,
but it doesn't mean that I wasn't still struggling, or
I didn't go home and sob and you know, there
there's days of that. But I think people thought I
was trying to like control him because I had, you know,
certain things that I had put in place in order
(13:22):
to feel comfortable being in the environment of working together
and still co mingling, and people couldn't quite understand that.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
And I think strong people suffered, Katie, Like I think that.
I mean, I feel like, first of all, we kind
of live in this culture that like really rallies around
the victim, or at least who the perceived victim is.
But I think what ends up happening is when you're
the strong one, Well then people like they think you're fine,
(13:55):
and they don't worry about you, and they don't ask
you if you're okay because you're not like showing you're
not crying, you know, and so then you get forgotten,
a little bitter, you get ignored.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Did you feel that way?
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Yeah, because I also was the one that left or
asked for the divorce, So you know.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
There was because you made the smart decision, the mature decision.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
It was also like not something I necessarily. It wasn't
a decision I want, Like I didn't. No one wants
to get divorced. I wanted him to step up and
show up for me and be, you know, the partner
and the husband that I really wanted and was hoping
he could be. But when I realized that was probably
never going to happen, I had to make a decision.
I really didn't want to have to, but ultimately I
(14:38):
wanted to be happy and not be lonely inside of
a marriage that shouldn't be how it is. So I
was like, okay, well I could stay in this and
just feel kind of the way I have been feeling.
Or I could leave and rebuild and be happier alone,
or maybe find someone else.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I don't know, so I think, but that's a dynamic.
You live through something that most of us and I
say most of us because for most of ourse.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, I applaud you so much.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I can't imagine jumping back into a televised situation.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Well, when you go through a divorce, right, so say
it was your decision, and I know in this case
it was, Well, you would still have your life and
this is off camera where you would go, and you
would have your support system, right, your girls, your friends
would know, this is why Katie made this decision. We're
proud of you, we love you, we support you. There
is no martyr in the situation. There's no court of
(15:33):
public opinion. Typically, right, we just go our separate ways
and fight over the dogs. But in your situation, you
made what was probably a very brilliant, great move for
you. You should be applauded, you should be supported, and instead
it's the court of public opinion on television. Who's the martyr,
(15:55):
who's the victim, who's to blame? That's how we play
this on reality TV. So you went through some thing.
Maybe I don't know if unfair is the right word,
but just difficult to say the least.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yeah, And I don't know if it's just because I've
had to live so many like uncomfortable and so so
many of those moments already on TV that I was like, well,
here's another one. You know, we go sort of able
just to like kind of not tune it out, but
(16:27):
just it feels it's not new to me. But it
was a little difficult when I didn't feel like I
had the support of the people in the room with me,
and I was kind of going through that season just
feeling like is this for real? Like not like Lallah
and then Christina Kelly, but everyone was just really feeling
(16:50):
bad for him and forgetting, forgetting all the moments that
they'd been present for along the years, Like you guys
all know why I made the decision, like you were.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
There, well, and what is it where we think that
the person that made the decision because he's okay, like
like Katie's okay, Like she made this decision, so clearly
she's already gotten to the point where she's fine. She's
not hurting and she's she's not feeling anything. Oh poor him.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Well, and his history now repeating itself, because this is
how I felt like at the beach Day episode of
this season. It's like it is starting to feel like again,
like everyone's kind of rallying around Tom and pitying Tom
now and like thinking that, well, Arianna is fine, and
because she's got these like deals going on and she's fine,
and it's feeling like the same situation again.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Well yeah, And that's a lot of why I've like
really kind of sympathized and you know, wanted to be
really supportive of Arianna because everyone assumes, because you know,
she's getting these opportunities and seeming doing like very well
and that aspect, and she's met a really great guy
that that should make up for the heartbreak and the
(18:12):
trauma and everything, and it just it doesn't. It doesn't.
Someone can bounce back, and someone can rebuild, and someone
can do really great in therapy and healed doesn't mean
that it doesn't hurt, and it's not you know, really
like everyone goes through that. You're not. No one's immune to.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
That, right, well, yeah, no one. No one gets out
of this life un skate especially and when you're going
through divorce. It's Laura and I talk about this about,
you know, taking it to the kind of quote unquote
real world of when say someone in your neighborhood gets divorced,
and with that social dynamic, where do you fit in?
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Right?
Speaker 1 (18:53):
You want to empathize and you want to sympathize with both,
but it's like, you know, how do I treat both
of them? Am I still friends with him? And am
I still friends with her? That's always it's and so
it's fascinating to watch this play out on vander Pump,
but it's you know, we all go through this to
a certain degree.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
That's why Tom and I were like, well, I don't
pick sides because we it was very peaceful between us.
Really don't pick a side. And that's when people did
pick aside. I was like, wait a minute, he specifically side.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, I've seen headlines that your ex husband, Tom Schwartz
is dating someone else.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Where are you at with that? Like he's okay.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
What's interesting is we're watching him say on this season
right now that he's not ready for a relationship, Like
that's why he's not with this Joe person. He's saying
that he's not ready for something. Do you think he's
ready for a relationship now? Has he changed? Has he growned?
I don't know how much. You guys still talk and
like is this a serious thing?
Speaker 4 (19:50):
What a typical guy thing to say, a relationship? And
then it's like the next week they were like in one.
I don't want be like the authority on what is
good for him was bathroom. I want him to be happy. Ultimately,
I do feel like he's still very unsure about why
(20:14):
we fell apart. I feel like I don't think he
really understands his part in that is. I feel like
he could really benefit from therapy. I think he kind
of uh runs from those deep feelings, from that emotional
(20:37):
part of it, And so I think before maybe just
getting into a relationship, I think maybe unpacking that a bit,
maybe sitting with that for a moment because it was you.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Know, traumatic, sounds too soon to you?
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Well, I mean, I don't. I don't know. Again, like
I don't. I don't want to be the one that
you say he should or shouldn't right, And who knows.
I mean, maybe it'll work out in point, maybe this
will help heal him.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I don't know, but you're so right that you can't,
Like you just hit the nail on the head of
what it's so simple but so brilliant what you're saying.
You're not going to have a successful Like it's like
the definition of being crazy is doing the same thing
over and over again expecting different results. You're not going
to have a successful relationship if you didn't figure out
what went wrong, what you were doing wrong in the past.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, I think it's you think it's this person. You
think it's this person. You think it's this person. Finally
you've got to stare in the mirror and realize, oh,
it's that person.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Has it been weird though for you to just watch
your ex start dating again? That's always Again, that's something
that we've all been through. We're all divorced. It's there's
always that awkwardness. And again, we don't have to do
it on national television.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
I mean, at first it was a little weird, like
the thought of it, but at this point, like, no,
but do I want to be around them and hang out? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Do I want to follow it on social media and
well show.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
I don't really want to like double date or like
it's kind of like I should be able to separate
from it.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And yeah, but you know, the producers are never going
to let you separate from that.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
I know. But it's just like, but only because for me,
it's like I feel like people are like assuming that
I'm gonna like be mean or bully her or have
all these opinions. And it's just like, I mean, of
course I I'll have opinions of everybody in who they date.
It's not just going to be Tom. But and that's
and that's why I just like I kind of just
like resent having to be around it because it doesn't
(22:42):
matter like what I say or do, It doesn't matter
if I'm get along with her, great that they'll think
that there's some other I'll interior motive. I just feel
like I can do no wrong or do no right,
and so it's just kind of like I just want
to like have a little separation there. You know.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Okay, I'm asking you one more question, even though I
really appreciate your like, I don't know what I should say.
But you also know both of these men very well.
You've known them for well over a decade. Is Shorts
and Sandoval's friendship inhibiting both of them from like doing
exactly what you're talking about and growing you know what
(23:20):
I'm saying. Well, like they're talking about potentially moving in together.
That's in the most recent episode, and I'm sitting there
being like, this is like they're what they're speaking into
existence is like the La Peter Pan never growing up thing?
And are they both like keeping each other in this place?
(23:40):
Is this healthy for them? How can they move forward
and start growing up? Is it possible?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Yeah, that's a terrible idea, I mean them living together.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Yeah, I feel like there's a bit of like arrested
development between those two. I feel that, you know, Tom Shorts,
he almost he doesn't want to call Tom out on
his bad behavior and his mistakes, and that's I feel
like that's such an issue in a friendship because I
(24:15):
think you should be able to be very real and
upfront with your friends, especially when they behave that way.
And the fact that he was just so reluctant to
do so and separate himself in such a brutal time,
like was really eye opening, very illuminating as to like
what goes on in that friendship. And I think just potentially, yeah,
(24:40):
and that's what I'm curious about too with like another
like relationship. It's like, well, if Tom gets heavily involved
with someone else, unlet's say sanevel like starts to feel
like that's a threat to him or their brand or
their business, Like is he going to treat her the same? Well?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I know, good, like what you just said, I know
you felt like and it's still being talked about this
season and that Sandoval and like the business really affected
you all's marriage and relationship.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
Well yeah, I mean because he just acted like I
wanted to come in and control things. But I just
just wanted to help out and be involved because like
why not, you know, I wanted it was My intentions
were good and pure, but he acted like I was
trying to come in and like mess it all up. Yeah,
(25:27):
very weird about it and felt just threatened. I don't know.
So yeah, it did cause issues, and because Tom Schwartz
just kind of started to go with his perspective and
view on it as well. Well.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I mean we're also watching Tom's Sandoval talk about starting
to date again this season, and I'm sitting there watching
him going, Okay, he's definitely not ready to get in
another relationship, Like what is this storyline.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
The way he do we call it? According hits On,
it is remarkable.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Is growth possible for Schwartz? Is growth possible for Sandoval?
Because then word narcissist has been used a lot, and
I think what we've the basic level of what you
know about a narcissist is like they can't really change.
So what do you think what is the possibility for
each of them?
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Again? I think I think therapy. I think doing some
like real like shadow work, like really meeting the dark
parts of yourself so you can see those bits of yourself.
You know. I don't know if they really met themselves.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, well, I mean with Sandoval truly, just from what
I've seen from the outside, just seems like you hit
the nail on the head, the ultimate Peter pan La guy.
He is so sucked into that world and when it
envelops you and you don't get out of it. And
people from the outside looking at her like bro, yeah,
get off the stage at the Whiskey Room.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Well, I was very excited to see that you were
bringing the espresso martini to Chili's. I mean, people have
a love for Chili's and it comes from for me,
it's from the Office from the famous office episode of
Chili's where Pam has such a good time. How did
the Espresso, Martini and Chili's partnership start? Because I've never
(27:37):
seen people have such a positive reaction.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
To a partnership on the internet.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Everyone I follow was like, yes, this is exactly what
I needed.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
No, right, well, yeah, I mean like Shina definitely has
her history with Chili's and know she worked there in college,
which is awesome. I mean I've been going to chili
since I can remember. Yeah, I mean they have the
best ships I've ever had. But yeah, so she has
(28:06):
that history. I have a history with tequila, and you know,
Spress Martinez are like having such a moment and I've
always swapped the vodka for tequila. I am a Reposoto girl.
I just think the flavor on that is so like
just rich and smooth and just slightly sweet. So pairing
that with the espresso and then the spiced rum just
(28:26):
kind of I don't know, it just it elevates it
in a way.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
That's what I do. I do the tequila. And then
when I heard the rum was an addition? What does
the rum bring to it? Because this I've never tried.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
I mean it's just like it's it's a spiced rum.
So it's just it just is ever so slightly has
that spice because have you ever put like cinnamon in coffee? Oh?
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yes, yeah, it's just.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Like a little kiss of like that. You know.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I grew up going to the original Chilies. I grew
up in Dallas and the original Chilies was on Greenville Avenue.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Such a weird fact.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Across from where I played soccer as a kid. I mean,
I'm talking five years old, there was an old burger
stand called Chili's. We would go afterwards and get burgers there.
And then they knocked that old stand down and they
built the first when they went chain and they went
or you know, in National And so I grew up
going to the original Chili's as a kid, the first one.
(29:21):
And by the way, sadly they took it knocked down,
it's gone, it's closed. You're the very first one.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Well they did that wrong, but they're doing right by
bringing us the espress of our tenis.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah, there you go. By the way, enough about the guys,
what about you and love and relationships?
Speaker 4 (29:40):
You know, I'm I'm just really trying to make my
life exciting and full and do things that I'm you know,
having fun and feel like excited to, you know, like
other it's hobbies or reconnecting with friends or meeting new people.
Just yeah, that's that's what I'm looking forward to. And
(30:00):
if I meet someone great, you know, I mean what
I like to sure, but I want to make sure
that they add value to my life. I'm not like
on apps trying to just date and meet someone. I'm
just you know, I'm I don't know if that feels
like really draining.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Okay, not doing the apps.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
No, I like to meet people like in outside in
the world.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Do you feel like you're in a healthy, good place
now or do you feel like you're being a healthy
emotional individual and you're still dealing with unpacking the divorce
before I move on?
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Oh no, I feel like I'm definitely like in a
place now.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Like you're open to finding love. Yeah, okay, yeah, No.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
I feel like now I could actually have someone come
in and I have the space and availability to that.
But again, they got to add to my life.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Because you've spent much of your adult life dating on
reality TV, is there anyone in the reality TV world
who you might be interested in, like if it was
like you met them at a at a party and
you know, like anybody else is on any other TV shows,
Maybe should we be looking outside vander Pump.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
Rules in the reality world.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Yeah no, She's like, no, absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
No, Katie has the best looks, like you never know,
you never have to worry about her poker face. I
know what she's thinking.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Okay, we've checked in on the past, the love life present,
I need to check in on the friendships. Why has
Lala unfollowed you? This is I am so baffled. I'm
so confused because I'm watching the show and everyone seems
really good and now then I just saw the headlines
as I was researching for this podcast that she has
unfollowed you and Arianna.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
I think she said that she has two point something.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
I don't okay, she was like, I was following an
uneven number of people needed to be something like that.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Katie, what is really happening? What what you've known each
other for years? What what is going on?
Speaker 4 (32:11):
I don't. I don't know. I mean, I was obviously
like at the reunion things get eeded and there's drama,
but this I didn't. I am a little confused, and
I don't I don't mean to be like ignorant about it,
but like, I just I don't understand it.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Like did you text her and say why did you
you've unfollowed me?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
What's happened?
Speaker 4 (32:32):
No?
Speaker 3 (32:32):
No?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Okay, well what are you guys talking right now? Like
would you or no?
Speaker 4 (32:41):
No? No?
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Is there future reconciliation possible?
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Well? I think she said if she ever wants to
be miserable again, we could be friends.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
That doesn't sound like friends, Okay, I.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
Just we we were great postseason, like all of it,
and then yeah, I just I didn't know that there
was so many issues.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
So Jack's was also there was a video that went
everywhere of him like last week saying that the Valley
is so much more real than vander Pump Rules, And
you guys aren't even friends and you don't even hang
out outside of the show.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
What do you say to that?
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Oh, I don't think everyone on our show hangs out
after I mean, like we were fractured before the show
even started. You're seeing how fractured we are, so like
that's true, But I don't. I think he was saying
that our show was like scripted and things like that,
but I don't that. Man, does anyone believe anything that
comes up as now?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
He Well, no, I honestly, you know what I actually
I meant to ask you about it, babe, because some
people were like messaging us and being like, Okay, so
is how scripted? Is reality TV or not? But you
would never say the Bachelor?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
No.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
But it's like all these shows are different, Like, I
have no idea. I don't know anybody who produces on
vander Pump and I've never been on it, so you know,
I never know. You know, there are shows that are
extremely produced, extremely scripted, and then there's shows that are
more game oriented, and so it's the opposite side of
the spectrum. Then there's stuff like vander Pump and Bachelor
that probably fall in the middle. Yes, stuff is created,
(34:21):
it's produced. The moments that Katie's put in are produced
and set up, and then what they do in that
and what they say in how they live their lives
is up to them. I assume.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Yeah, I don't. I can walk into a scene and
say whatever I want to say, Like I like, I
get to feel how I want to feel, So I mean, yeah,
some people I don't know if they want to like
decide that they want to do something crazy then thens
(34:51):
up to them. But like me personally, I like to
just I have conviction.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I love when they cut to a Katie interview at Katie,
I TM, it's just.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Like, you're the comedic relief that we need. You're the
like and I don't think you get enough credit for that.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
I'm like, Katie is the comedic narrator I needed in
this moment, and thank you.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
I don't need to take I think it's very dry.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
So it goes like, well, then we just need to
find you a better venue than vander pump Role's.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
So Katie.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Some people who listen to this, of course, will be
avid fans. Some people are just like listening to hear
about relationships and learn and as someone who's had the
experience you've had, because again I just want to like, note,
you were with someone for well over a decade, you've
done you have this incredible like relationship experience under your
belt now a little bit removed from the divorce moment,
(35:47):
What advice would you give? What advice would you give
yourself if you could go back and tell her anything,
or anybody who might be in your position of they're
in their thirties and like, I got divorced at thirty,
what would you tell this person who's maybe in this
middle place of like, well, oh, this big thing I
thought was forever ended and now I'm kind of reinventing
myself a little bit in my thirties.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Oh I think that. I mean it is. It is
like so difficult and it can be confusing, and I
know that like for some people they have a lot
more to consider, they have maybe like children or other
things like that. But I think at the end of
(36:27):
the day, like you have to I don't want to say,
like choose yourself, but you know what's best for yourself,
and you have like one life and if you try,
if you looked at it and been like this is
this is the kind of like marriage I want or
(36:49):
partner I want. And you've expressed to that person that
they're not showing up, and you've explored every option and
you've given everything you can't like you got to choose
us all. There's nothing more lonely or isolating than being
in something like that. So I think just tuse yourself.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Love that perfectly put succinct and perfect as the Katie
Maloney delivery is. Thank you so much. I'm so glad
we got to talk to you today, and thank you
for doing the work out there on vander Pump Rules.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
For all of us.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
You are yeah, you are doing the work for all
of us, and it was nice to meet you and
you're an absolute treat. Truly appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Well, thank you. I'm very glad that this happened finally.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
I know now we're going to go on a date
night to Chili's tonight, expresso martini.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Thank you, Katie. I'm so glad we got to talk.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Thank you to Katie Babe. Maybe we might need to
set Katie up with someone.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
I think so, I felt, I felt that. I feel. Well,
here's what's funny, and it's what makes the vander Pump
show so good. Is the boys right that they're such
boys their children?
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Oh you mean like not the met but the boys.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
The boys. The men are not men, they're boys. They're
silly little boys. And the women you can just tell,
like there's such an emotional intelligence. They're like they're operating
at such a higher level. And that's most women and
most men. I will agree to that. But it's just funny.
That she is so thoughtful about where she is in
her life and where she is as far as finding
love again. And then you look at shorts and scand
(38:22):
of all and they're like, bro, we should move in together.
This will be awesome. We'll get bunk beds. Oh my god,
I'll put up this poster like that's where they are.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
You're right, it is stepbrothers.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Yeah, And then she's like, well, I thought about this.
I'm really im worked on myself, and I'm like, oh
my god, it's just night and day.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
You're right.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
And it's interesting because like at first, actually as we
were doing the podcast, I was thinking, you know, I
do think part of this is this group of friends
has been in the same group since their early twenties,
and I do think we as people, and I mean
everybody you need to like meet new people, have different friends.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
I'm not saying don't hold on to your friends, but.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
You got to grow though, expose yourself to different people
because that makes you forces you to grow as a person.
And they it's the show, is their job, so they've
kind of stayed in this group, and I think that
can be a hindrance.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
But as you've just pointed out, the women have.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Grown and the men have gone through the same stuff,
but you're not hearing them make the same poignant observations
and comments.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
It's very interesting.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Peter Pan doesn't grow up.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Well, luckily Wendy got out of there.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Okay, thank you everybody, and we'll talk to you next.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Time because we have a lot more to talk about.
Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most
dramatic pod ever, and make sure to write us a
review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you
next time.
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Zima
Chris Harrison
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