September 4, 2025 • 26 mins
In case you missed today’s contentious and uncomfortable Senate Hearing with RFK Jr in the hot seat, Amy and T.J. watched - with jaws dropped - and have all the lowlights of what essentially became a three hour, verbal boxing match.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, they're folkes. At is Thursday, September fourth, And did
you see all of that yelling and streaming and sarcasm
at the Senate today? For three hours we saw the
people who are representing us in DC act worse than
maybe we see some kids in elementary school. And with that,
(00:23):
welcome to this episode of Amy and tj am I Robes.
I'm kind of being a little bit of a smart ass,
kind of being a little facetious, but this wasn't a
great display RFK Junior testifying in the Senate today And Robes,
you actually said it while we were watching. This is uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
It is and I was actually glad that all the
kids were in school and didn't actually have to watch
adults act like children. And the point being, if there
was actually something substantive, if something actually came out of
it that was a game changer or at least informative.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Or hopeful, or something got.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Accomplished, maybe maybe you could justify some of the heated exchanges.
But this was just for political show, This was just
for headlines. This was just for in my personal opinion,
for lawmakers to use. And I believe RFK actually said
this to use in their next promotional video to say,
(01:21):
see I'm fighting for the citizens, I'm standing up to whatever, whomever,
And look RFK Junior looked just as childish, laughing, ignoring, being.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Calling people names. I mean, it just it was. I
thought everybody had egg on their face.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Nobody looked good. And again it's okay to fight and
be passionate, I should say be passionate. This was it was.
It wasn't substance if it was personal. So it seems
like a lot of ego clashes up there.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
And performative it did, say.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
And when you're talking about the most serious, isn't it
the most critical thing? When you talk about kids in education,
the only thing more important to that is children in
their health. This is what was on the line today
and the performance of everyone today. I know the senators,
they got good hearts and they're fighting the good fights
in a lot of ways. But there were too many
(02:22):
times today robes where these aren't adults acting like adults,
and they weren't being respectful and they know that, and
that was very difficult to watch during the day today
when you're talking about kids health and arguments are being
made that people are actually dying because of things that
are happening at HHS and RFK Junior and the Senators.
(02:44):
There was no sense of working on the same team
and having different right, we have different approaches. We all
want to protect kids, we have different approaches. Never even
felt like that we have the same goal.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Even yeah, and I mean look and yes, it was
about childhood vaccine. It was also about every American's access
to vaccines, especially even those who are at high risk,
people who are compromised, the elderly, people who can't afford
certain medications, or people who don't need to jump through
another hoop to have access to vaccines. So this affects
(03:20):
the health of millions of Americans and certainly the children
of our country.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
And so yes, people are passionate about it.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I would argue, regardless of which side you're on in
terms of vaccines, if you're a proponent of what JFU
sorry RFK Junior is trying to accomplish, or if you're
against them, it didn't even matter what side of the
aisle or what side of the argument you were on.
You had to feel icky about just watching the process
(03:47):
of adults fighting like kids.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
It makes you feel good about the direction we're heading
and that something is going to get done. But to
give you all, did you call it up? You know
that a lot's been going on at HHS the past
seven months, ever since RFK Junior got in there, But
in the past month things have been even more heated.
Of course, he got a lot of criticism following this
shooting at the CDC down in Atlanta. He got a
(04:11):
lot of heat because of vaccine recommendations. He got a
lot of heat because the CDC director that he hired
was fired after a month. All these things are happening
right now. But this was already a previously scheduled Senate
Finance Committee hearing in which they wanted him to testify,
and it just so happened. We're just days away from
him firing the CDC director. So as we knew this
was going to be hot, we knew and we knew
(04:33):
they were gonna he might be the one. Huh Is
he the favorite punching bag in the administration?
Speaker 3 (04:39):
He's in the top three.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I would say to name the other two.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Uh, Nope, that can just be whatever you all want
to fill in in the blinks, but he's definitely up there.
And look, we expected Democrats to be fiery when addressing him,
and sometimes they ask questions, sometimes they just made political statements,
but several of them called on him to resign or
to be fired. They said it right to his face.
(05:03):
But several Republicans also were critical of RFK Junior as well,
and that was of note and maybe not as expected.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
They weren't as harsh. Clearly they weren't. But there was
even one senator who a Republican said I've voted for you,
and I'm concerned about some of the things you've been doing,
so that some of that sounded bipartisan. But once they
got going it good Lord have mercy. Now was a
couple of highlights they wanted to get at. Of course,
vaccine policy, the firing of the CDC director, the COVID
vaccine recommendations there were high on the list, and they
(05:36):
wanted to get at something that the former CDC director
who was just fired said about why she was fired.
We'll get into that in a second. He called her
a liar, flat out said she is a liar.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Multiple times, reiterated it.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
He had several times. He could have walked it back.
He emphasized it several times. But before we get into
the substance. Let's get into the style RFK junior at times. Look,
it's only one way to put it. Didn't necessarily behave
like an adult.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Now, he chuckled. Look, he was receiving a lot of heat.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
So I was actually trying to imagine being in his position,
regardless of how any of us feel about his positions
or even about him in general. That can't be easy
to be sitting on the hot seat and have senators
calling for your resignation, calling you lots of negative things,
(06:33):
to just try to put it mildly. But for his
reaction to be pulling out his phone, ignoring a senator
while they were speaking, yelling at them, cutting them off,
speaking over them, like they were actually yelling at each other.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Back and forth on top of one another. There were
actual shouting matches.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
You're not overstating at all. I could not believe what
we were watching. Look, we've seen contentious hearings over the years,
and you know what, usually in every hearing you see,
there's one exchange that makes the highlight real. If you
will on the news that you got anything to pick from,
If you just want to pick out some yelling.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, and I will tell you a lot of times
when you have it here and there. You had even
said earlier, Hey, this is going to be appointment television.
We have to watch this. This is going there's going
to be fireworks, and sure we were expecting that. I
have to tell you, like an hour into it.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
I wanted I wanted to turn it off. Yeah, I
felt and yes, uncomfortable. I actually I felt irritable. Nobody
wins in these situations.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
And again there was no information gleaned, there was no resolution,
there was no there was.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
No headway made. It was just adults yelling at each other.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
No, don't you believe, or at least I do. I
think most people viewed it if they had a chance
to the way we did. There are people on the
left and on the right who will watch this and
always see it through the lens of their political leanings.
There go go get after him, rooting for the Democratic senators,
and some Republicans might have seen that being too harsh
(08:06):
on them, or they might defend him in the administration.
But don't you think most people are in somewhere in
the middle that watching this, you couldn't feel good about
where we are.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I think this is why people don't vote TJ. I
think this is why people get apathetic. They just stop
caring because it doesn't matter. And I understand because once
you look. I remember, even early on in my career,
I wanted to be a political reporter.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
My dream was to go to DC.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I got to DC, and I started reporting on the
things and the people who I was excited about being
able to be a part of the system and explaining
things to I got so disenfranchised. I got so turned
off by the whole process. I remember thinking, that's so
funny that at one point I actually bought into all
(08:55):
of this and thought this was all real.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
And I just got turned off.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
And I just watching this today, those feelings all came
back where I just was. It was sad, and it
just makes you want to say, nothing's ever gonna get done,
this country is doomed. It really makes you feel pessimistic.
And I'm not trying to continue that feeling, but that
is what happens. I think when Americans witness what we
saw today.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, we all got to see it. It was live.
This was a time. Look, we we are not we
have where this is no indictment of the left or
the right, no no criticism, no position of any kind,
but independent so hard. It's unmistakable when I say there
(09:41):
was some childlike behavior. Look, there were times he wouldn't
even look at some of the sinners. He turned away
and wouldn't acknowledge them when they wrapped questioning. I know
he was upset, and sometimes you just react as a
human being. Man. Decorum is a big deal. And just
it wasn't a good display and a good show today,
And I mean taking your phone out and scrolling during
(10:04):
a Senate hearing in which you are the witness. But okay,
how do you I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
There was disrespect flying all over the place today.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
There was zero respect.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
A big point of contention today, of course, and she
was talked about more than anybody, right. Husan Moneras who
was just fired by Secretary RFK Junior as a CDC
director only after only about a month now, she claims,
and others and certainly Democrats, claim that she was fired
because she wouldn't get in line with the administration, that
(10:39):
she just she wouldn't bend the knee, kiss the ring
or whatever and do it she was told and specifically Robes.
She wrote in The Wall Street Journal that she was
fired after she wouldn't go along with with just kind
of rubber stamping some of the vaccine policy, and she
just wouldn't go along with and she said that's why
she was fired, right, And this was it got like,
(11:05):
my eyes got big, my jaw dropped, and I even
laughed at some points during some of this back.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I think both of.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Us at this point our jaws both dropped at the
same time. And it wasn't planned. It was almost cartoonish.
We're like, what are we actually witnessing? So yes, Manara
said she refused to do what she was told without
actually seeing the science behind what she was told to approve.
And yes, RFK Junior said that's a lie. And they said,
(11:33):
are you calling her a liar? Yes, I'm calling her
a liar. And then they said, well, then why did
you fire her? And he said because I asked her
if she was a trustworthy person and she said no.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
My that that was the moment like what, Okay, this
doesn't even be as hard to imagine.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
We need context. If that did happen, there had to
be a larger conversation or some context to explain why
anybody would say that they weren't trustworthy.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Who would say that to their boss. If your boss
asked you if you're trustworthy, you would say yes. Even
if that means you're a liar, you would still say yes.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
So for someone to say no, she had to be
pushed into saying that because it was in context of
something that she was not okay with.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
And when she was asked the question, excuse me, when
he was asked about this. It was during Senator Warren's questioning.
And Senator Warren of Massachusetts Democrat, you know her, know
her well at this point, but she is one who
rails against a big compani's, big pharmaceutical companies, big business.
So she was all in and she was prepared. She
is good at this. Give her credit. But when she
(12:42):
asked him the question, he gave the answer about she
asked if she was trusted with she said Senator Sanders
was sitting next to Senator Warren. He just started laughing.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
He started laughing. There was a man behind her who
started laughing, and then there was even a woman sitting
behind RFK Junior who started to People were laughing because
they couldn't believe what they were hearing, and.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
We couldn't either. And here's the thing. Folks. That moment
was a big one, but they were just getting warmed up.
We'll explain why one senator insisted that RFK Junior be
sworn in before he started. Also more about Senator Warren
that back and forth you're going to be seeing on
TV an awful, awful lot.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
And.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
The senator from New Mexico, in a strange moment, took
his lapel pen off and said he was going to
give it to RFK Junior, but then just as quickly
said nah, you don't deserve it.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Welcome back to Amy and TJ. We are talking about
that fiery Senate Finance Committee hearing where RFK Junior was
on the hot seat, and it didn't just get hot,
it was burning up.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I felt like I was watching a hellscape.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Actually, it was like, these are our trusted politicians who
we've elected and appointed to represent the United States, to
put our best people to make the best decisions for
our health, for our safety, for our humanity. What was
I What were we watching today?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
This is only only folks, not an indictment of everybody
and everybody individually, but the process and how we go
about doing this in our politics today. It just if
that's where we are, we will never get anything done
that was. And we've seen tough ones and we expect
them to be tough, and there's certain questioning. The opposite
(14:51):
party always is hard on the witness, if you're from
the opposite party that the witness is from. We get that.
We understand that this still was different today roams. This
was a little more contentious and heated and trifling at
times than we're used to seeing, and it just wasn't
a good display. And we're kind of kind of disheartened
(15:12):
by watching it today, where you're watching a finance committee
hearing about something as important as this country's health and
children in particular, and you wanted to turn it off
because I can't watch this is too much.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, I mean, think about what are some of I
remember being in local news or even like at MSNBC
and watching other countries politicians like actually go to blows start.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I thought we were getting close.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
To that, that's how pissed off lawmakers were. But you know,
you see in other countries people actually jumping over and
taking swings at one another. I felt like we were
really close to that.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
In moments, some of this felt personal. They weren't yelling, no,
I say the data is this, and no, I've seen
these numbers, and no, I disagree. It was didn't you
take money from this pharmaceutical company? Yeah, A lot of
stuff was personal. They were throwing jabs at each other.
How many times did he say to one of them,
you don't know what you're talking about. I have no
idea what you're talking about. That's just gibberous generation stuff up,
(16:10):
He yelled us yelled this at several sentences.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
That was his answer to a lot of pointed questions
or at least even statements, just basically calling them liars,
calling them idiots, calling them morons, saying you don't even
know what you're talking about. And he said it just
so just flippantly, like you moron. I mean, he didn't
use the word moron, but that is basically what he
(16:35):
was saying. So Senator Widen from Oregon, a Democrat from Oregon,
actually asked that RFK be sworn in because he said,
this witness has lied to the senator.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
He's the ranking member. This is how the thing started.
It started by the ranking member saying we should swear
him in because this witness is a liar. That's how
we started.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
The chairman said, no, we're going to treat him like
other witnesses from the administration, the chairman being Republican. But yes,
there were several people who tried to get the chairman
to step in and he did not, But yeah, he
Senator Wyden said that the unwillingness is a message that
it is acceptable to lie to the Senate Finance Committee.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
I mean, how many times were people.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Called liars in this committee hearing, including RFK Junior himself
right off.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
The bat, and a lot of people will agree with that,
that he has made false statements, that he has been
pushing misinformation, and they say flat out he has come
to the Senate before and told them things that are untrue. Ah,
but that's how it started. It kind of set a
tone for the direction things were going to go. The
other big point of contingent, of course, they how many
folks I can't remember actually a rope CDC how many
(17:45):
of them fired? Hasn't it been thousands?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Oh? I was going to say thousands, Yes, yes, thousands.
And obviously just last week the CDC director was fired.
There were four other top CDC officials who resigned that
week as well. So you've got that not just employees
being fired, but you have the folks in charge either
being fired or resigning in protest.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
And he justified all of this with these stats. He said,
eight out of ten young men can't even qualify for
military service, and seventy six percent of Americans have a
chronic disease. He said, quote, we're the sickest country in
the world, and we have to fire some of those
people at the CDC. He's essentially pointing out, look, how
sick we are. Why were you you telling me that
(18:27):
these folks at Health and Human Services are doing a
good job when the country is the sickest in the world.
He tried to make that type of connection, like, what
do you want me to do? Things are going well,
so you want all these sane people. That's the point
he was trying to make. At least don't know if
it landed.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah, I'm not sure that it did.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
But Senator Warren landed her plane because she was ready,
as you mentioned, and her big issue was who has
access to the vaccine. She kept saying, you told us,
you swore to us that this vaccine, the COVID vaccine,
would be available to everyone, and it was just this
back and forth, where RFK Junior just kept repeating, I
(19:07):
am not taking COVID vaccines away from people, and she says, effectively,
you are, though, because if you're telling people, if they
don't fit into a certain category, that they then have
to go to their doctor to get a prescription, and
some doctors aren't even sure who they can write prescriptions for,
and so you are effectively by not recommending that the
(19:27):
COVID vaccine be available to everybody, by only recommending that
it is available to at high risk patients, and who
is that? That is murky as well. You are effectively
denying or taking away vaccines from people. And they just
kept saying the same thing, back and forth, back and forth,
and nothing resonated with either of them.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
And then he threw in there in the middle of
this back and forth that she's taken eight hundred and
fifty five thousand dollars from pharmaceutical company. So he was
ready to try to push back or call other folks out.
This was a this was a con you know, this
was an important back and forth because the subject matter
was real and this is the one that a lot
of people are struggling with trying to figure out getting
(20:09):
a COVID vaccine. He said, he's not taking it away.
But to your point, right, other people are saying you're
making it more difficult, or I have to jump through
a hoop, or I have to pay so I don't
have the same access as I can.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Correct, So any one of us can walk in to
CBS whatever Dwayne read, pharmacy you have, and you can
get a flu vaccine. That was up until a month ago.
The same case for the COVID booster or the COVID vaccine.
That has changed because what the CDC recommends impacts what
pharmacies supply, and when doctors have to write prescriptions and
(20:45):
who they can write them for and what insurance companies
will cover which, so it does.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Matter what the CDC recommends. It has a huge impact.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Got nowhere on that, Senator Sanders was a to jump in.
Now he picked up on that earlier point because Senator
Warren wrapped up and she was the one who had
been asking about why the CDC director was fired Robes,
and she got him to say that she was a
liar and that no, I fired her because I asked
(21:17):
her if she was trustworthy and she said no. Now,
Senator Sanders jumped in and the first thing he said was, Hey,
I need some clarification. I want to make sure I
understand what you're saying. And I think I use the
word seriously. Are you seriously saying that? She responded to you, no,
(21:37):
I'm not a trustworthy person. RFK Junior had a response
for that.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Robe he said no. She didn't say no, I'm not
a trustworthy person. She said no. And the way he
said that was, yeah, it was with it, it was
with purpose.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
He said it into the microphone. He said, she said
no and leaned back in his chair. He said nut
and didn'dra to elaborate and left it at that. But
it was that kind of. It was petty at times,
It really.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Was, absolutely and probably it got even more petty when
we heard from Senator Ben Ray Luhan, Democrat from New Mexico.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
It was a ridiculous back and forth.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
It actually was kind of I was even confused in moments.
It was so contentious, but I wasn't really even clear
what they were so upset about.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
That's a good way to put it. They were yelling
at each other and I'm not sure why.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I was like, wait, what, It's almost like they were
creating an argument for the fun of it.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
It almost felt like that anyway.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
That's when RFK Junior said to Senator Luhan, you're talking gibberish.
He tried to make some racial thing about it, saying, Oh,
I'm sorry you can't understand my new Mexico accent. And
then it just spiraled from there because I'm not even
sure how to explain the story that the senator told
about the lapel pin he had. He said he had
(22:59):
a starfish pin and it represented even the smallest creatures
are impacted.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
And he said he was gonna give it to him,
but now because of what he's heard, I'm not going
to give him this pen. He said, I'm sorry that
you're not worthy of this nice little pen or pen.
I'm going to pray for you instead.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
But it was just odd.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
It was but he was ready and he made some
reference some little girl gave this to me, and I
was going to give it to you, And what was
he really?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
We were We raised our eyebrows were like, what's happening
right now? It was like, I was going to give
you this, but now I'm not gonna And that's really
what it felt like it was.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
It really felt like.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Children, That's exactly what it was.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Like, too bad is this was going to be yours,
but now it's not.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
And he took it off like it was a whole motion,
like it was. Look, we are not in any way,
not in all admire respect what these senators do, what
they had to do to get the positions they have,
how smart they are, how capable many of them are.
And I think overwhelmingly that most of them have their
(24:11):
hearts in the right place. I think so. But this
was one of those things that everybody got caught up
in and it felt like everybody got dragged down by it,
and it was for me or abes. It was a disappointment.
It was difficult to watch. And if you are carrying
American you can't I don't care you a Democratic Republican,
(24:31):
you can't feel good at your side won or we
made our point or this is just one like we
can't do this constantly. Nothing got what got accomplished.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
It is nothing.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
I would dare somebody to find me something today that
happened that benefited a child in Oklahoma.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
There was a lot of emotion and it might have
been intended to create change or to shake RFK Junior up,
or to get the world or at least americans watching
and listening who maybe don't realize what's happening. But it
just turned a lot of us off. I think it
(25:12):
might have had the opposite effect ultimately.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
And folk, we'll be honest, we didn't think we'd do
an episode about this initially today, and we were prepared.
As we were watching, we were kind of taking notes
on the fundamentals, taking notes on the actual policies, taking
notes on what's happening. And we stopped doing that because
there wasn't enough of it and it wasn't substance. So
(25:38):
we decided to hop on because right now, folks, we
are kind of venting, and this is cathartic. We're just
saying how we felt about what we watched, and we
don't know if you felt the same, but we got
to try this again, and we got to do better
than we did today.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Ropes.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Yeah, hopefully the next Senate hearing will go better. We'll
be sure to watch and pass along our notes to
all of you. But thank you for listening to us, everybody.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
We appreciate you hanging with us on this Thursday evening.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
I Ami Robot alongside t J. Holmes. Have a great
rest of your night. Everybody,
Hey, they're folkes. At is Thursday, September fourth, And did
you see all of that yelling and streaming and sarcasm
at the Senate today? For three hours we saw the
people who are representing us in DC act worse than
maybe we see some kids in elementary school. And with that,
(00:23):
welcome to this episode of Amy and tj am I Robes.
I'm kind of being a little bit of a smart ass,
kind of being a little facetious, but this wasn't a
great display RFK Junior testifying in the Senate today And Robes,
you actually said it while we were watching. This is uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
It is and I was actually glad that all the
kids were in school and didn't actually have to watch
adults act like children. And the point being, if there
was actually something substantive, if something actually came out of
it that was a game changer or at least informative.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Or hopeful, or something got.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Accomplished, maybe maybe you could justify some of the heated exchanges.
But this was just for political show, This was just
for headlines. This was just for in my personal opinion,
for lawmakers to use. And I believe RFK actually said
this to use in their next promotional video to say,
(01:21):
see I'm fighting for the citizens, I'm standing up to whatever, whomever,
And look RFK Junior looked just as childish, laughing, ignoring, being.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Calling people names. I mean, it just it was. I
thought everybody had egg on their face.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Nobody looked good. And again it's okay to fight and
be passionate, I should say be passionate. This was it was.
It wasn't substance if it was personal. So it seems
like a lot of ego clashes up there.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
And performative it did, say.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
And when you're talking about the most serious, isn't it
the most critical thing? When you talk about kids in education,
the only thing more important to that is children in
their health. This is what was on the line today
and the performance of everyone today. I know the senators,
they got good hearts and they're fighting the good fights
in a lot of ways. But there were too many
(02:22):
times today robes where these aren't adults acting like adults,
and they weren't being respectful and they know that, and
that was very difficult to watch during the day today
when you're talking about kids health and arguments are being
made that people are actually dying because of things that
are happening at HHS and RFK Junior and the Senators.
(02:44):
There was no sense of working on the same team
and having different right, we have different approaches. We all
want to protect kids, we have different approaches. Never even
felt like that we have the same goal.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Even yeah, and I mean look and yes, it was
about childhood vaccine. It was also about every American's access
to vaccines, especially even those who are at high risk,
people who are compromised, the elderly, people who can't afford
certain medications, or people who don't need to jump through
another hoop to have access to vaccines. So this affects
(03:20):
the health of millions of Americans and certainly the children
of our country.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
And so yes, people are passionate about it.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I would argue, regardless of which side you're on in
terms of vaccines, if you're a proponent of what JFU
sorry RFK Junior is trying to accomplish, or if you're
against them, it didn't even matter what side of the
aisle or what side of the argument you were on.
You had to feel icky about just watching the process
(03:47):
of adults fighting like kids.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
It makes you feel good about the direction we're heading
and that something is going to get done. But to
give you all, did you call it up? You know
that a lot's been going on at HHS the past
seven months, ever since RFK Junior got in there, But
in the past month things have been even more heated.
Of course, he got a lot of criticism following this
shooting at the CDC down in Atlanta. He got a
(04:11):
lot of heat because of vaccine recommendations. He got a
lot of heat because the CDC director that he hired
was fired after a month. All these things are happening
right now. But this was already a previously scheduled Senate
Finance Committee hearing in which they wanted him to testify,
and it just so happened. We're just days away from
him firing the CDC director. So as we knew this
was going to be hot, we knew and we knew
(04:33):
they were gonna he might be the one. Huh Is
he the favorite punching bag in the administration?
Speaker 3 (04:39):
He's in the top three.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I would say to name the other two.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Uh, Nope, that can just be whatever you all want
to fill in in the blinks, but he's definitely up there.
And look, we expected Democrats to be fiery when addressing him,
and sometimes they ask questions, sometimes they just made political statements,
but several of them called on him to resign or
to be fired. They said it right to his face.
(05:03):
But several Republicans also were critical of RFK Junior as well,
and that was of note and maybe not as expected.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
They weren't as harsh. Clearly they weren't. But there was
even one senator who a Republican said I've voted for you,
and I'm concerned about some of the things you've been doing,
so that some of that sounded bipartisan. But once they
got going it good Lord have mercy. Now was a
couple of highlights they wanted to get at. Of course,
vaccine policy, the firing of the CDC director, the COVID
vaccine recommendations there were high on the list, and they
(05:36):
wanted to get at something that the former CDC director
who was just fired said about why she was fired.
We'll get into that in a second. He called her
a liar, flat out said she is a liar.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Multiple times, reiterated it.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
He had several times. He could have walked it back.
He emphasized it several times. But before we get into
the substance. Let's get into the style RFK junior at times. Look,
it's only one way to put it. Didn't necessarily behave
like an adult.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Now, he chuckled. Look, he was receiving a lot of heat.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
So I was actually trying to imagine being in his position,
regardless of how any of us feel about his positions
or even about him in general. That can't be easy
to be sitting on the hot seat and have senators
calling for your resignation, calling you lots of negative things,
(06:33):
to just try to put it mildly. But for his
reaction to be pulling out his phone, ignoring a senator
while they were speaking, yelling at them, cutting them off,
speaking over them, like they were actually yelling at each other.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Back and forth on top of one another. There were
actual shouting matches.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
You're not overstating at all. I could not believe what
we were watching. Look, we've seen contentious hearings over the years,
and you know what, usually in every hearing you see,
there's one exchange that makes the highlight real. If you
will on the news that you got anything to pick from,
If you just want to pick out some yelling.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, and I will tell you a lot of times
when you have it here and there. You had even
said earlier, Hey, this is going to be appointment television.
We have to watch this. This is going there's going
to be fireworks, and sure we were expecting that. I
have to tell you, like an hour into it.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
I wanted I wanted to turn it off. Yeah, I
felt and yes, uncomfortable. I actually I felt irritable. Nobody
wins in these situations.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
And again there was no information gleaned, there was no resolution,
there was no there was.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
No headway made. It was just adults yelling at each other.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
No, don't you believe, or at least I do. I
think most people viewed it if they had a chance
to the way we did. There are people on the
left and on the right who will watch this and
always see it through the lens of their political leanings.
There go go get after him, rooting for the Democratic senators,
and some Republicans might have seen that being too harsh
(08:06):
on them, or they might defend him in the administration.
But don't you think most people are in somewhere in
the middle that watching this, you couldn't feel good about
where we are.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I think this is why people don't vote TJ. I
think this is why people get apathetic. They just stop
caring because it doesn't matter. And I understand because once
you look. I remember, even early on in my career,
I wanted to be a political reporter.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
My dream was to go to DC.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I got to DC, and I started reporting on the
things and the people who I was excited about being
able to be a part of the system and explaining
things to I got so disenfranchised. I got so turned
off by the whole process. I remember thinking, that's so
funny that at one point I actually bought into all
(08:55):
of this and thought this was all real.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
And I just got turned off.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
And I just watching this today, those feelings all came
back where I just was. It was sad, and it
just makes you want to say, nothing's ever gonna get done,
this country is doomed. It really makes you feel pessimistic.
And I'm not trying to continue that feeling, but that
is what happens. I think when Americans witness what we
saw today.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, we all got to see it. It was live.
This was a time. Look, we we are not we
have where this is no indictment of the left or
the right, no no criticism, no position of any kind,
but independent so hard. It's unmistakable when I say there
(09:41):
was some childlike behavior. Look, there were times he wouldn't
even look at some of the sinners. He turned away
and wouldn't acknowledge them when they wrapped questioning. I know
he was upset, and sometimes you just react as a
human being. Man. Decorum is a big deal. And just
it wasn't a good display and a good show today,
And I mean taking your phone out and scrolling during
(10:04):
a Senate hearing in which you are the witness. But okay,
how do you I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
There was disrespect flying all over the place today.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
There was zero respect.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
A big point of contention today, of course, and she
was talked about more than anybody, right. Husan Moneras who
was just fired by Secretary RFK Junior as a CDC
director only after only about a month now, she claims,
and others and certainly Democrats, claim that she was fired
because she wouldn't get in line with the administration, that
(10:39):
she just she wouldn't bend the knee, kiss the ring
or whatever and do it she was told and specifically Robes.
She wrote in The Wall Street Journal that she was
fired after she wouldn't go along with with just kind
of rubber stamping some of the vaccine policy, and she
just wouldn't go along with and she said that's why
she was fired, right, And this was it got like,
(11:05):
my eyes got big, my jaw dropped, and I even
laughed at some points during some of this back.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I think both of.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Us at this point our jaws both dropped at the
same time. And it wasn't planned. It was almost cartoonish.
We're like, what are we actually witnessing? So yes, Manara
said she refused to do what she was told without
actually seeing the science behind what she was told to approve.
And yes, RFK Junior said that's a lie. And they said,
(11:33):
are you calling her a liar? Yes, I'm calling her
a liar. And then they said, well, then why did
you fire her? And he said because I asked her
if she was a trustworthy person and she said no.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
My that that was the moment like what, Okay, this
doesn't even be as hard to imagine.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
We need context. If that did happen, there had to
be a larger conversation or some context to explain why
anybody would say that they weren't trustworthy.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Who would say that to their boss. If your boss
asked you if you're trustworthy, you would say yes. Even
if that means you're a liar, you would still say yes.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
So for someone to say no, she had to be
pushed into saying that because it was in context of
something that she was not okay with.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
And when she was asked the question, excuse me, when
he was asked about this. It was during Senator Warren's questioning.
And Senator Warren of Massachusetts Democrat, you know her, know
her well at this point, but she is one who
rails against a big compani's, big pharmaceutical companies, big business.
So she was all in and she was prepared. She
is good at this. Give her credit. But when she
(12:42):
asked him the question, he gave the answer about she
asked if she was trusted with she said Senator Sanders
was sitting next to Senator Warren. He just started laughing.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
He started laughing. There was a man behind her who
started laughing, and then there was even a woman sitting
behind RFK Junior who started to People were laughing because
they couldn't believe what they were hearing, and.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
We couldn't either. And here's the thing. Folks. That moment
was a big one, but they were just getting warmed up.
We'll explain why one senator insisted that RFK Junior be
sworn in before he started. Also more about Senator Warren
that back and forth you're going to be seeing on
TV an awful, awful lot.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
And.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
The senator from New Mexico, in a strange moment, took
his lapel pen off and said he was going to
give it to RFK Junior, but then just as quickly
said nah, you don't deserve it.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Welcome back to Amy and TJ. We are talking about
that fiery Senate Finance Committee hearing where RFK Junior was
on the hot seat, and it didn't just get hot,
it was burning up.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I felt like I was watching a hellscape.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Actually, it was like, these are our trusted politicians who
we've elected and appointed to represent the United States, to
put our best people to make the best decisions for
our health, for our safety, for our humanity. What was
I What were we watching today?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
This is only only folks, not an indictment of everybody
and everybody individually, but the process and how we go
about doing this in our politics today. It just if
that's where we are, we will never get anything done
that was. And we've seen tough ones and we expect
them to be tough, and there's certain questioning. The opposite
(14:51):
party always is hard on the witness, if you're from
the opposite party that the witness is from. We get that.
We understand that this still was different today roams. This
was a little more contentious and heated and trifling at
times than we're used to seeing, and it just wasn't
a good display. And we're kind of kind of disheartened
(15:12):
by watching it today, where you're watching a finance committee
hearing about something as important as this country's health and
children in particular, and you wanted to turn it off
because I can't watch this is too much.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, I mean, think about what are some of I
remember being in local news or even like at MSNBC
and watching other countries politicians like actually go to blows start.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I thought we were getting close.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
To that, that's how pissed off lawmakers were. But you know,
you see in other countries people actually jumping over and
taking swings at one another. I felt like we were
really close to that.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
In moments, some of this felt personal. They weren't yelling, no,
I say the data is this, and no, I've seen
these numbers, and no, I disagree. It was didn't you
take money from this pharmaceutical company? Yeah, A lot of
stuff was personal. They were throwing jabs at each other.
How many times did he say to one of them,
you don't know what you're talking about. I have no
idea what you're talking about. That's just gibberous generation stuff up,
(16:10):
He yelled us yelled this at several sentences.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
That was his answer to a lot of pointed questions
or at least even statements, just basically calling them liars,
calling them idiots, calling them morons, saying you don't even
know what you're talking about. And he said it just
so just flippantly, like you moron. I mean, he didn't
use the word moron, but that is basically what he
(16:35):
was saying. So Senator Widen from Oregon, a Democrat from Oregon,
actually asked that RFK be sworn in because he said,
this witness has lied to the senator.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
He's the ranking member. This is how the thing started.
It started by the ranking member saying we should swear
him in because this witness is a liar. That's how
we started.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
The chairman said, no, we're going to treat him like
other witnesses from the administration, the chairman being Republican. But yes,
there were several people who tried to get the chairman
to step in and he did not, But yeah, he
Senator Wyden said that the unwillingness is a message that
it is acceptable to lie to the Senate Finance Committee.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
I mean, how many times were people.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Called liars in this committee hearing, including RFK Junior himself
right off.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
The bat, and a lot of people will agree with that,
that he has made false statements, that he has been
pushing misinformation, and they say flat out he has come
to the Senate before and told them things that are untrue. Ah,
but that's how it started. It kind of set a
tone for the direction things were going to go. The
other big point of contingent, of course, they how many
folks I can't remember actually a rope CDC how many
(17:45):
of them fired? Hasn't it been thousands?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Oh? I was going to say thousands, Yes, yes, thousands.
And obviously just last week the CDC director was fired.
There were four other top CDC officials who resigned that
week as well. So you've got that not just employees
being fired, but you have the folks in charge either
being fired or resigning in protest.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
And he justified all of this with these stats. He said,
eight out of ten young men can't even qualify for
military service, and seventy six percent of Americans have a
chronic disease. He said, quote, we're the sickest country in
the world, and we have to fire some of those
people at the CDC. He's essentially pointing out, look, how
sick we are. Why were you you telling me that
(18:27):
these folks at Health and Human Services are doing a
good job when the country is the sickest in the world.
He tried to make that type of connection, like, what
do you want me to do? Things are going well,
so you want all these sane people. That's the point
he was trying to make. At least don't know if
it landed.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah, I'm not sure that it did.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
But Senator Warren landed her plane because she was ready,
as you mentioned, and her big issue was who has
access to the vaccine. She kept saying, you told us,
you swore to us that this vaccine, the COVID vaccine,
would be available to everyone, and it was just this
back and forth, where RFK Junior just kept repeating, I
(19:07):
am not taking COVID vaccines away from people, and she says, effectively,
you are, though, because if you're telling people, if they
don't fit into a certain category, that they then have
to go to their doctor to get a prescription, and
some doctors aren't even sure who they can write prescriptions for,
and so you are effectively by not recommending that the
(19:27):
COVID vaccine be available to everybody, by only recommending that
it is available to at high risk patients, and who
is that? That is murky as well. You are effectively
denying or taking away vaccines from people. And they just
kept saying the same thing, back and forth, back and forth,
and nothing resonated with either of them.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
And then he threw in there in the middle of
this back and forth that she's taken eight hundred and
fifty five thousand dollars from pharmaceutical company. So he was
ready to try to push back or call other folks out.
This was a this was a con you know, this
was an important back and forth because the subject matter
was real and this is the one that a lot
of people are struggling with trying to figure out getting
(20:09):
a COVID vaccine. He said, he's not taking it away.
But to your point, right, other people are saying you're
making it more difficult, or I have to jump through
a hoop, or I have to pay so I don't
have the same access as I can.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Correct, So any one of us can walk in to
CBS whatever Dwayne read, pharmacy you have, and you can
get a flu vaccine. That was up until a month ago.
The same case for the COVID booster or the COVID vaccine.
That has changed because what the CDC recommends impacts what
pharmacies supply, and when doctors have to write prescriptions and
(20:45):
who they can write them for and what insurance companies
will cover which, so it does.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Matter what the CDC recommends. It has a huge impact.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Got nowhere on that, Senator Sanders was a to jump in.
Now he picked up on that earlier point because Senator
Warren wrapped up and she was the one who had
been asking about why the CDC director was fired Robes,
and she got him to say that she was a
liar and that no, I fired her because I asked
(21:17):
her if she was trustworthy and she said no. Now,
Senator Sanders jumped in and the first thing he said was, Hey,
I need some clarification. I want to make sure I
understand what you're saying. And I think I use the
word seriously. Are you seriously saying that? She responded to you, no,
(21:37):
I'm not a trustworthy person. RFK Junior had a response
for that.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Robe he said no. She didn't say no, I'm not
a trustworthy person. She said no. And the way he
said that was, yeah, it was with it, it was
with purpose.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
He said it into the microphone. He said, she said
no and leaned back in his chair. He said nut
and didn'dra to elaborate and left it at that. But
it was that kind of. It was petty at times,
It really.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Was, absolutely and probably it got even more petty when
we heard from Senator Ben Ray Luhan, Democrat from New Mexico.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
It was a ridiculous back and forth.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
It actually was kind of I was even confused in moments.
It was so contentious, but I wasn't really even clear
what they were so upset about.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
That's a good way to put it. They were yelling
at each other and I'm not sure why.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I was like, wait, what, It's almost like they were
creating an argument for the fun of it.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
It almost felt like that anyway.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
That's when RFK Junior said to Senator Luhan, you're talking gibberish.
He tried to make some racial thing about it, saying, Oh,
I'm sorry you can't understand my new Mexico accent. And
then it just spiraled from there because I'm not even
sure how to explain the story that the senator told
about the lapel pin he had. He said he had
(22:59):
a starfish pin and it represented even the smallest creatures
are impacted.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
And he said he was gonna give it to him,
but now because of what he's heard, I'm not going
to give him this pen. He said, I'm sorry that
you're not worthy of this nice little pen or pen.
I'm going to pray for you instead.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
But it was just odd.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
It was but he was ready and he made some
reference some little girl gave this to me, and I
was going to give it to you, And what was
he really?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
We were We raised our eyebrows were like, what's happening
right now? It was like, I was going to give
you this, but now I'm not gonna And that's really
what it felt like it was.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
It really felt like.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Children, That's exactly what it was.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Like, too bad is this was going to be yours,
but now it's not.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
And he took it off like it was a whole motion,
like it was. Look, we are not in any way,
not in all admire respect what these senators do, what
they had to do to get the positions they have,
how smart they are, how capable many of them are.
And I think overwhelmingly that most of them have their
(24:11):
hearts in the right place. I think so. But this
was one of those things that everybody got caught up
in and it felt like everybody got dragged down by it,
and it was for me or abes. It was a disappointment.
It was difficult to watch. And if you are carrying
American you can't I don't care you a Democratic Republican,
(24:31):
you can't feel good at your side won or we
made our point or this is just one like we
can't do this constantly. Nothing got what got accomplished.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
It is nothing.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
I would dare somebody to find me something today that
happened that benefited a child in Oklahoma.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
There was a lot of emotion and it might have
been intended to create change or to shake RFK Junior up,
or to get the world or at least americans watching
and listening who maybe don't realize what's happening. But it
just turned a lot of us off. I think it
(25:12):
might have had the opposite effect ultimately.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
And folk, we'll be honest, we didn't think we'd do
an episode about this initially today, and we were prepared.
As we were watching, we were kind of taking notes
on the fundamentals, taking notes on the actual policies, taking
notes on what's happening. And we stopped doing that because
there wasn't enough of it and it wasn't substance. So
(25:38):
we decided to hop on because right now, folks, we
are kind of venting, and this is cathartic. We're just
saying how we felt about what we watched, and we
don't know if you felt the same, but we got
to try this again, and we got to do better
than we did today.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Ropes.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Yeah, hopefully the next Senate hearing will go better. We'll
be sure to watch and pass along our notes to
all of you. But thank you for listening to us, everybody.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
We appreciate you hanging with us on this Thursday evening.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
I Ami Robot alongside t J. Holmes. Have a great
rest of your night. Everybody,
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Zima
Chris Harrison
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