May 28, 2025 • 25 mins
There was only one witness on the stand Tuesday: Diddy’s former, longtime assistant and global brand director Capricorn Clark.
She gave jurors an emotional, firsthand account of alleged abuse, kidnapping and repeated threats to her life. Amy and T. J. go over all the details and accusations including what she had to say about Cassie Ventura and the reason she stayed with Diddy.There was only one witness on the stand Tuesday: Diddy’s former, longtime assistant and global brand director Capricorn Clark.
She gave jurors an emotional, firsthand account of alleged abuse, kidnapping and repeated threats to her life. Amy and T. J. go over all the details and accusations including what she had to say about Cassie Ventura and the reason she stayed with Diddy.online-audio-converter.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello everyone, It's Wednesday, May twenty eighth. Welcome to Amy
and TJ. I'm Amy Roebuck and I'm TJ Holmes. Why
are you puzzled when I said welcome to Amy and TJ?
Because I forgot what we're doing. We do so many podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It feels this one's about relationship, that one's about crying,
This one's about news, that one's about something else. So
I forgot where we were.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yes, well, this is the Sean Diddycombs recap that we've
been doing every day after testimony, so we can give
you a one stop shop where you don't have to
go and try to find who said what when. It's
very confusing when you go through all the different news
outlets to see what happened to trials. So we have
done all of that for you, and we're going to
(00:50):
go over what happened in court yesterday. And it was
pretty remarkable what happened on Tuesday. This is the start
of the third full week of testimony the prosecution's case
against Calms. There was only one witness, but my goodness,
she packed a punch.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
This was Capricorn Clark. She makes an impression. If you
have no idea who she is just by her name.
Her name is Capricorn Clark. She's a former assistant Taditty
and global brand director for him. She also worked as
Cassie's creative director, and she worked several people rogues we've
heard from so far. I think she might be the
one that's worked the longest for him of the people,
(01:27):
at least that we've heard. From two thousand and four
to twenty twelve, was it.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
But then once again she came back again all the
way up to twenty eighteen, and just last year in
April of twenty twenty four. In the spring of twenty
twenty four, she tried to work for him again.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
So they have a long standing relationship. And look, she
this is a lady. A lot of people gotten up
and testified about what they saw and here and there,
and some of his assistants. She was in that inner
circle and she handled even called herself his protector. So
she was right there, very trusted, and she saw a
little bit of everything, according to her testimony, and she
(02:05):
gave some details. There were even it's hard to compare
days of testimony and details that are more chilling than others.
But some of the stuff she talked about will leave
you shook.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I mean she was with Ditty, like we mentioned, on
and off for twenty years, and not only did she
see things or hear things, she says she experienced things directly,
which is why a lot of people have questioned why
she would stay so long, why she would stand by
him for so long, why she wanted to return to
work again and again. If you believe what her testimony is,
(02:39):
it's hard to imagine that you would choose to continually
put yourself back in that kind of environment.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, she said it. It's complicated. My relationship with him
is complicated, she said. Even to this day, she misses
the job and she would still go back again. As
early as last year, she was still in some conversations
about a potential role she might have with Ditty. But
she was described on the stand yesterday at times that
there are several reporters in the room from several outlets
who are giving their accounts, but they were all rose
(03:08):
pretty universal and saying she cried uncontrollably few times.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Understand.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
I think the verb was she was sobbing uncontrollably, uncontrollably,
which gives you an image of what was happening up
on the stand. But yes, she said throughout it all,
she wanted Ditty's approval. And that's what we've heard time
and time again. He created something with some of these
women and some of these assistants and some of these
folks who worked with him, who begged and craved for
(03:34):
his approval. And she said when she kept going back,
she quote wanted her life back.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
She wants approval from a guy who, she also said
on the stand, threatened to kill her on more than
one occasion, who fired her on more than one occasion.
She heard him threaten to kill other people as well.
She witnessed what she said was horrific violence. But at
the same time, we are still talking about someone that
she had whatever level of respect for or adoration for,
(04:04):
or maybe just the role she was in and the
power she had by having access who knows what, But
she said he really she was complicated and still to
this day she misses the job.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, that's and that is truly complicated. I don't I
can't think of a better word to describe it than that.
And what her testimony, what we heard from her yesterday
was key and central to the prosecution's case specifically to
a kidnapping charge, because she claims she was kidnapped by
Sean Diddy Combs in the early morning hours to go
(04:36):
over to kid Cuddy's house.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
That was, of course, the rapper who.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
He had a beef with because he was seeing his
on again, off again girlfriend Cassie Ventura, and when he
found out, he, according to Capricorn, got her in the
early morning hours and forced her. He had a gun
in his hand. He showed up disheveled. She said he
had a rip in the crotch of his pants and
(05:00):
said we're going to kill Cutty.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
This was important. This was a critical part of the
prosecution's case because if they prove or convince the jury
at least that did he was involved and his associates
were involved in other crimes as a part of his enterprise.
They're trying to prove a racketeering charge. They're trying to
essentially show what they showed when they were convicting mobsters
(05:24):
back in the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties. This rico charge,
if you will, They're trying to prove he has a
criminal enterprise. So this is why it is important. Another crime,
kidnapping is a pretty serious crime and Capricorn Clark Clark
claim she was taken against her will. This story is central,
I guess for the first couple to the first couple
(05:44):
of weeks of this trial rose because Kid Cutty, A
lot of people didn't even know his name potentially and
weren't familiar with his music. But he has been central
to this case because he is the guy who was
dating Cassie. Did he found out about it? And it's
set off this whole chain of events.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah, so yesterday we heard Capricorn Clark testify that Ditty
and his security guard went into Cutty's house and again
she's there against her will, she claims, And that's when
she says she called Cassie on a burner phone to
tell her that Ditty was in front of Cutty's house.
She goes through this whole explanation about Cutty coming to
the house, pulling up alongside Ditty's vehicle, and then taking off,
(06:22):
and she describes a chase ensued between the two.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
She said it felt like it was forever, but it
might have been a minute before Cutty essentially got away.
But that scene that night, we've heard it. We heard
Cassie talk about We heard Cuddy talk about it, but
to see it or hear it, at least from this
witness's perspective. A witness who claimed to be along for
the ride against her will, that is kidnapping. He has
a loaded gun telling hers she doesn't have a choice
(06:47):
but to come with him, so that is why she
ends up being there. But you go back to say
she called Cassie from a burner phone. The fact that
you were in any situation in life that you need
a burner phone so that your boyfriend or your boss
can't find out about what you're doing, that was just
the idea. She said she was the one that took
(07:07):
her to Best Buy to get a burner phone when
things got rough with her and Diddy.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I mean, if you have to do that, you have
to question what you're doing and who you're spending your
time with, because that is deeply concerning and speaks of volumes.
She also testified that after all of this, Diddy told
Cassie and Capricorn that they had to get kid Cutty
to not go to police, otherwise if they didn't do that,
(07:34):
she claims that Diddy said he'll kill them all her words.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Her testimony under oath saying that happened. She made a
comment earlier as well to in along those same lines
that Cassie's going to get us all killed. Right in
dating kid Cutty. She just knew how explosive potentially that
situation was, that you're having to sneak around or get
a burner front, all these things. But the idea that
she was told more on one occasion, my Diddy that
(08:02):
he's gonna kill folks, including her. I'm gonna kill all
of y'all if you don't just convince him to not
go to police, which they apparently they did convince him.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I thought it was so remarkable listening or hearing about
Capricorn's testimony about Cassie. It was it was all over
the place. On one hand, she talked about her and
she worked directly for her, saying she went from being
more of a sweet model to a feisty girlfriend. Feisty yes,
(08:42):
and then yes, what you just said. She said Cassie
was gonna get us all killed. But that's crazy, like
putting the blame on Cassie. Cassie is gonna get you
all killed, when the finger at times she did should
be pointed directly if this is all true at Diddy
for wanting to kill them all versus the response ability
on Cassie to not get them all killed.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Well, that's the I guess that speaks once again to
the psyche of everybody in that world, knowing that this
guy is the one we all depend on. This is
the one we all have to serve. So let's figure
out what we have to do, what we have to endure,
whether that's pain, whether that's embarrassment, whatever we have to
do to survive in his world and to keep this
guy happy. That's it, Bill. Look, the prosecution, if nothing else,
(09:27):
is building an idea of a world that we had
no idea about and has been consistent.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
And makes no sense in the real world.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
You know, to not blame the person who's actually committing
these atrocities or who you say is, but versus or
rather than the people who are making him upset, Which
that's kind of an insane thing to think about for me.
And she also said that Cassie wanted her out of
Diddy's inner circle, so you know, she definitely had a
(09:55):
tumultuous relationship with Cassie, and certainly that was explained on
the stand at least by ca Capricorn, and it's just
wild to hear all of what she said happened, specifically
on the kid Cutty situation. The cross examination was very
interesting because Ditty's lawyers went after Capricorn because, yes, she's
saying she was kidnapped. She's saying she went against her will.
(10:18):
She's saying he brandished a gun and she felt like
her life was under threat. But they pointed out that
she previously said she went with Ditty to kid Cutty's
house in order to keep him from doing something stupid.
She denied that, says she doesn't remember saying that, And
that's the question. Did she go willingly to protect him,
(10:40):
to do her job or what she thought was her job,
or was she taken against her will.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Look, legal experts out there say this is a very
important part of the prosecution's case. They need to prove
that a crime had taken place here. The kidnapping is
a very very important thing. Not just about sentiments anymore.
It's not just about oh my, this guy's crazy, he
had gun, he did some silly stuff, he was mad,
he was even hitting a woman. No, no, no, that
(11:06):
the kidnapping, they say, is very important in building a
case about a criminal enterprise. So there was another potential
incident in which she was kidnapped, though if they could
possibly prove because Capricorn Clark explained that there was another
incident a different year in which she was in charge
of jewelry for Diddy. That bag went missing and she
(11:27):
was taken robes to an abandoned floor of a building,
a dilapidated building, and was subjected to a light detector
test all day, several days by some big dude who
told her she needed to act right or you're gonna
find yourself in the East River. Yeah, he gave her
that threat when she was so nervous. They couldn't get
a good reading, they said on the light detector, and
(11:48):
he told her you need to calm down because if
I can't get a good reading, they're gonna throw you
in the river. So that's a threat one and potential
kidnapping as well. So that is now the details are
solations in that. But for legal reason, this is very
important for them building.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Theyay, you just put yourself or imagine it does sound
like a scene out of a movie.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
It doesn't sound like real life.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
This was all happening here around the Manhattan area, and
apparently she described this guy, you said, a big dude.
She said he was five times the size of her,
is what she said on the stand, and he was intimidating.
And yes, she said she felt like her life was
under threat because she couldn't relax enough or calm down
enough for the light detector to have a good reading
(12:30):
when that bag of diamonds went missing. She also describes
another incident back in two thousand and six where she
apparently walked up to Ditty's personal chef and made an
offhanded comment because they didn't have turkey bacon, and she said,
I hate living here or something under her breath. The
chef hears it and goes and tells Ditty in the
(12:52):
next room what she just said. And then what Diddy
did next. She claims he came running at her, running
at her from the room and pushed her violently because
and then said, if you don't want to live here,
get the f out of here now, And so she
says she did leave. So you hear all of this
and these stories, what she witnessed, what she experienced, she says,
(13:14):
and she's still begging, years and years later to come
back to work. For him, pleading for his job, for
her job, begging him for forgiveness.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
That was over the Cuddy stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Right, Yeah, she did.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yeah, that was emails, right, she says she sent twenty
fourteen and fifteen. This is one part where they said
she did cry pretty hard on the stand having to
read these emails and what she was begging for forgiveness
for having not told him that Cassie was dating Cutty.
That was ten years ago and she's on the stand there.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Still crying about him said about it.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
And yes, but this is after she's been pushed, after
she's been threatened, after she's been afraid for her life.
She's begging for forgiveness. That's wild to me to hear
hear her talk about this. And then there was an
incident in Central Park.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Now that one is again. She was taking the Central Park.
It was late at night, just Ditty and a security guard.
I this one jumped out of me because I think
about Central Park. We spent so much time in Central Park.
We think about how many times we've run or enjoyed
a There are nothing but happy thoughts. Quite frankly, anytime
I think about Central.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Park, setting of beautiful movies and you're strolling hand in Hanner,
you're taking a beautiful run, or you're taking in you know,
the beautiful scenery and the people. Yeah, you're not thinking
about violent crimes. I mean, I know they can happen,
but certainly it's not what you think of.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
So this is why this one got me and got
maybe a lot of New Yorkers to think. You might
have been, you know, just hanging out in the park
on a pleasant evening and Diddy was threatening to kill
a woman under the cover of darkness somewhere there with
a security guard. She said, yeah, took her to the park.
And this was because she had a previous relationship or
working relationship with Shube Knight, who was a business rival,
(14:54):
a rap rival, rap industry rival with Diddy. She didn't
disclose that previously. He found out about it, got upset
and took her and threatened to.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Kill her.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
In the park.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
And when he fired her, he told her he'd make
her kill herself.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
He's gonna make things that bad for it. And she's
she believes she got blacklist, that she tried unsuccessfully for
a while to find work in the industry. But all
this stuff we're saying about her to this day, if
he if he gets if he's found not innocent, if
he called her and asked her to come back and work,
I absolutely think.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
I mean, if he sound not guilty, you mean, if
he walks, if he walks and gets back.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
What I'm saying, I'm making an extreme point, My point being,
after all we're hearing, I don't think there's a question
that this woman still feels some sense of loyalty to
him and would still return to his circle if she
were allowed to do so.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Would he allow that? I mean, she's being compelled to testify. Obviously,
she's not doing this because she chose to. Most of
the folks on the stand are there because they're compelled to,
speaking to their fear of retribution or any sort of retaliation.
And I can't even imagine what these folks are thinking about,
after hearing their testimony and staring at him right there
(16:06):
in the courtroom as they're saying all of these mind
blowing things, what it would be like for them if
he is not convicted. I haven't even gone there, but
I'm just now thinking about what that must feel like,
the fear and the trepidation that might speak to some
of the sobbing and the crying.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
She's probably so.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Conflicted and so torn about what to do, what to say,
and what not to do.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
One thing she did do.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Despite all the things, perhaps negative, that she said about
Cassie Ventura, she absolutely corroborated Cassie's testimony about being beaten
by did He Combs And so many who have gone
up on the stand have done the same. They have
cord Cassie's testimony about the violence she endured from did
(17:02):
He tough to hear. Yeah, she says she saw personally
did He kick Cassie repeatedly while she was in fetal position,
silently crying after he found out about kid Cutti. She
witnessed it first hand.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
That's tough to hear.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
That one was tough to hear. Look, so much of
this testimony has been just brutal and devastating, and to
imagine somebody endured that repeatedly for years. But this was
one I guess I for some reason got very much
a visual of this to imagine. Yeah, I mean, Cassie's
not a big girl, but she's cruel just to be
(17:39):
in that position, essentially giving up, essentially saying please stop,
I'm not fighting you. I have nothing. It's not just
smacking somebody with a hand, to kick somebody repeatedly, tough
to here and this is these are all allegations, but
for some reason, that one is one of all we've
heard that I visualized and had such a reaction to
that description of her and then the crying silently even
(18:01):
that detail.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yes, I mean it's and it was so bad that
Cassie said, sorry, excuse me that Capricorn Clark said she
called Cassie's mom and said, he as in Ditty is
beating the shit out of your daughter, And she said,
this is also so devastating that Cassie's mom told her
I can't call the police, but you can please help her.
(18:28):
That I don't care who you are. You're a mom,
you're a parent. The idea that you're getting a phone
call saying your daughter's being beaten severely and you say
I can't call.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Police, that's a tough one. Can you please help her?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
That's a tough one.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
That is just devastating to me. And to think about
the picture they're painting of Ditty. You know, when you
talk about kicking someone when they're not fighting back, when
they're clearly in a position of protection that you just
keep going after them. That just I can't even get
my head around at That reminds me of people who
(19:05):
hurt animals. When you start hurting the helpless, that's when
it goes to a whole other level of cruelty.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Oh this is to say, right, you should kick a
man when he's down. I just just that visual and
that description that she gave and this, I don't know
what look we talked about. There's plenty here. There's so
many things in here for us to examine, from the
music industry, from the young people who are in it,
(19:34):
to fame, to wealth, to power, to sex, to all
may things. Race. There's so much to examine in here,
But this is one and I hope something we continue
to learn about domestic violence and victims of domestic violence,
being a friend and a family member of folks who
might be going through this stuff. Because these are two
(19:55):
women who I believe loved this girl, that really cared
for Cassie. One is looking at her being kicked repeatedly
and won't call police. Another she calls the girl's mother,
who no one I would argue on the planet loves
Cassie more than her mom and a mom didn't do anything.
What in God's name are we doing? And I'm not
(20:19):
I do not envy. I'm not criticizing the women for
the position that they were in or they were put in,
but what are we doing when that is happening?
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:28):
I think this could be hopefully a wake up call
for a deeper understanding of what actually goes on those dynamics,
the power of them, and what compels people to freeze
or fight. You know, it's it's or you know, it's
like they say, when you're in certain situations that are stressful,
you have the flight or fight, but there's a freeze
(20:50):
as well, and you see.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
That happening a lot.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
When when Capricorn was being cross examined, there was one
and it was I think it was the fun question
that Diddy's attorneys asked Capricorn, and this was fairly devastating.
We talked about how much she bolstered Cassie's testimony and
corroborated her testimony. This last question did the opposite. It certainly,
(21:16):
if anything, it could have planted a seat of doubt
in terms of Cassie's willingness or unwillingness to be a
part of everything.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, and I think what she was up there for
three days Cassie and her testimony, and look, they cross
examined her and their questions about where was she on
that fence right, how much of it was she there
as a victim, how much of it was she an accomplice?
How much was she there willingly doing this stuff? And
(21:44):
I think that they were trying to make a point here,
and I think they made a point to do this
question last. But Cassie was asked, excuse me. Capricorn was
asked about a conversation she'd had with Cassie and she
had told according to Capricorn, was trying to plead with Cassie,
get out of this relationship with Diddy. Stop dating him,
(22:04):
is the advice she was trying to give. And this
robes is what she said. Cassie's response to.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
That was jay Z is taken. Who would I date?
That's hard to hear.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And that's the end of the after all whole days
she's testified. That is the last thing that the jury heard.
And I when I saw it, I was rattled by it.
And you start to consider or rethink, we give a
second thought to other things. You thought maybe you already
put to bed about this case, like, oh, I thought
(22:39):
one thing, but wait a minute, Wow.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Did she stay because and she endured whatever she did
willingly because she liked the fame, she liked the power,
she liked the money, she liked the access, she liked
that life, and so she put up with obvious abuse
that we've heard testified by so many people. I don't
think that is in question whatsoever. But was she complicit
(23:02):
because she liked the end result, even if the means
by which she had to get those results were horrific
and heinous. She chose to be in that world and
to be in that position because she liked the way
she was living.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
That is what the jury now is considering. And they
now only need one juror to buy into that enough
and the next thing, you know, this is not the
guilty verdict that the prosecution is after. And again this
been said in jest. Was she just making a little joke,
But it didn't seem to come off that way, and
it certainly is not why they asked the question at
(23:41):
the end of her testimony. That testimony is going to continue.
She's done. But she was the only one on the
stand yesterday actually went a little past there usual three
o'clock break time in the afternoon. But today four more
witnesses are expected, and I guess what is it. Two
of them would have might have some more personal stories about.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Day, right, So one we'll hear from a Los Angeles
Police Department officer and a Los Angeles Fire Department areson investigator.
But the ones that I think we were just referencing
that will be perhaps the most interesting will be Ditty's stylist,
Deontay Nash. We're going to hear from the stylist, and
then this might be a big one. The government did
(24:21):
say it wanted to call another alleged victim of Ditty's.
This one will be anonymous. They're giving her the moniker
Mia as she takes the stand. Miya is a pseudonym.
We all we know is that she's one of Combe's
former employees and that she wants and wishes to remain anonymous.
We were told some of these women would be coming forward,
(24:42):
but they would not be revealing their identities. So it
will be very interesting to hear what Mia has to
say on the stand today.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
And we will continue to update you here, folks. For now,
I'm TJ. Holmes along with Amy Robot giving you your
daily Diddy Trial update. Thanks for tuning in, We will
check in with you again soon
Hello everyone, It's Wednesday, May twenty eighth. Welcome to Amy
and TJ. I'm Amy Roebuck and I'm TJ Holmes. Why
are you puzzled when I said welcome to Amy and TJ?
Because I forgot what we're doing. We do so many podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It feels this one's about relationship, that one's about crying,
This one's about news, that one's about something else. So
I forgot where we were.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yes, well, this is the Sean Diddycombs recap that we've
been doing every day after testimony, so we can give
you a one stop shop where you don't have to
go and try to find who said what when. It's
very confusing when you go through all the different news
outlets to see what happened to trials. So we have
done all of that for you, and we're going to
(00:50):
go over what happened in court yesterday. And it was
pretty remarkable what happened on Tuesday. This is the start
of the third full week of testimony the prosecution's case
against Calms. There was only one witness, but my goodness,
she packed a punch.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
This was Capricorn Clark. She makes an impression. If you
have no idea who she is just by her name.
Her name is Capricorn Clark. She's a former assistant Taditty
and global brand director for him. She also worked as
Cassie's creative director, and she worked several people rogues we've
heard from so far. I think she might be the
one that's worked the longest for him of the people,
(01:27):
at least that we've heard. From two thousand and four
to twenty twelve, was it.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
But then once again she came back again all the
way up to twenty eighteen, and just last year in
April of twenty twenty four. In the spring of twenty
twenty four, she tried to work for him again.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
So they have a long standing relationship. And look, she
this is a lady. A lot of people gotten up
and testified about what they saw and here and there,
and some of his assistants. She was in that inner
circle and she handled even called herself his protector. So
she was right there, very trusted, and she saw a
little bit of everything, according to her testimony, and she
(02:05):
gave some details. There were even it's hard to compare
days of testimony and details that are more chilling than others.
But some of the stuff she talked about will leave
you shook.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I mean she was with Ditty, like we mentioned, on
and off for twenty years, and not only did she
see things or hear things, she says she experienced things directly,
which is why a lot of people have questioned why
she would stay so long, why she would stand by
him for so long, why she wanted to return to
work again and again. If you believe what her testimony is,
(02:39):
it's hard to imagine that you would choose to continually
put yourself back in that kind of environment.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, she said it. It's complicated. My relationship with him
is complicated, she said. Even to this day, she misses
the job and she would still go back again. As
early as last year, she was still in some conversations
about a potential role she might have with Ditty. But
she was described on the stand yesterday at times that
there are several reporters in the room from several outlets
who are giving their accounts, but they were all rose
(03:08):
pretty universal and saying she cried uncontrollably few times.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Understand.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
I think the verb was she was sobbing uncontrollably, uncontrollably,
which gives you an image of what was happening up
on the stand. But yes, she said throughout it all,
she wanted Ditty's approval. And that's what we've heard time
and time again. He created something with some of these
women and some of these assistants and some of these
folks who worked with him, who begged and craved for
(03:34):
his approval. And she said when she kept going back,
she quote wanted her life back.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
She wants approval from a guy who, she also said
on the stand, threatened to kill her on more than
one occasion, who fired her on more than one occasion.
She heard him threaten to kill other people as well.
She witnessed what she said was horrific violence. But at
the same time, we are still talking about someone that
she had whatever level of respect for or adoration for,
(04:04):
or maybe just the role she was in and the
power she had by having access who knows what, But
she said he really she was complicated and still to
this day she misses the job.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, that's and that is truly complicated. I don't I
can't think of a better word to describe it than that.
And what her testimony, what we heard from her yesterday
was key and central to the prosecution's case specifically to
a kidnapping charge, because she claims she was kidnapped by
Sean Diddy Combs in the early morning hours to go
(04:36):
over to kid Cuddy's house.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
That was, of course, the rapper who.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
He had a beef with because he was seeing his
on again, off again girlfriend Cassie Ventura, and when he
found out, he, according to Capricorn, got her in the
early morning hours and forced her. He had a gun
in his hand. He showed up disheveled. She said he
had a rip in the crotch of his pants and
(05:00):
said we're going to kill Cutty.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
This was important. This was a critical part of the
prosecution's case because if they prove or convince the jury
at least that did he was involved and his associates
were involved in other crimes as a part of his enterprise.
They're trying to prove a racketeering charge. They're trying to
essentially show what they showed when they were convicting mobsters
(05:24):
back in the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties. This rico charge,
if you will, They're trying to prove he has a
criminal enterprise. So this is why it is important. Another crime,
kidnapping is a pretty serious crime and Capricorn Clark Clark
claim she was taken against her will. This story is central,
I guess for the first couple to the first couple
(05:44):
of weeks of this trial rose because Kid Cutty, A
lot of people didn't even know his name potentially and
weren't familiar with his music. But he has been central
to this case because he is the guy who was
dating Cassie. Did he found out about it? And it's
set off this whole chain of events.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah, so yesterday we heard Capricorn Clark testify that Ditty
and his security guard went into Cutty's house and again
she's there against her will, she claims, And that's when
she says she called Cassie on a burner phone to
tell her that Ditty was in front of Cutty's house.
She goes through this whole explanation about Cutty coming to
the house, pulling up alongside Ditty's vehicle, and then taking off,
(06:22):
and she describes a chase ensued between the two.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
She said it felt like it was forever, but it
might have been a minute before Cutty essentially got away.
But that scene that night, we've heard it. We heard
Cassie talk about We heard Cuddy talk about it, but
to see it or hear it, at least from this
witness's perspective. A witness who claimed to be along for
the ride against her will, that is kidnapping. He has
a loaded gun telling hers she doesn't have a choice
(06:47):
but to come with him, so that is why she
ends up being there. But you go back to say
she called Cassie from a burner phone. The fact that
you were in any situation in life that you need
a burner phone so that your boyfriend or your boss
can't find out about what you're doing, that was just
the idea. She said she was the one that took
(07:07):
her to Best Buy to get a burner phone when
things got rough with her and Diddy.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I mean, if you have to do that, you have
to question what you're doing and who you're spending your
time with, because that is deeply concerning and speaks of volumes.
She also testified that after all of this, Diddy told
Cassie and Capricorn that they had to get kid Cutty
to not go to police, otherwise if they didn't do that,
(07:34):
she claims that Diddy said he'll kill them all her words.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Her testimony under oath saying that happened. She made a
comment earlier as well to in along those same lines
that Cassie's going to get us all killed. Right in
dating kid Cutty. She just knew how explosive potentially that
situation was, that you're having to sneak around or get
a burner front, all these things. But the idea that
she was told more on one occasion, my Diddy that
(08:02):
he's gonna kill folks, including her. I'm gonna kill all
of y'all if you don't just convince him to not
go to police, which they apparently they did convince him.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I thought it was so remarkable listening or hearing about
Capricorn's testimony about Cassie. It was it was all over
the place. On one hand, she talked about her and
she worked directly for her, saying she went from being
more of a sweet model to a feisty girlfriend. Feisty yes,
(08:42):
and then yes, what you just said. She said Cassie
was gonna get us all killed. But that's crazy, like
putting the blame on Cassie. Cassie is gonna get you
all killed, when the finger at times she did should
be pointed directly if this is all true at Diddy
for wanting to kill them all versus the response ability
on Cassie to not get them all killed.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Well, that's the I guess that speaks once again to
the psyche of everybody in that world, knowing that this
guy is the one we all depend on. This is
the one we all have to serve. So let's figure
out what we have to do, what we have to endure,
whether that's pain, whether that's embarrassment, whatever we have to
do to survive in his world and to keep this
guy happy. That's it, Bill. Look, the prosecution, if nothing else,
(09:27):
is building an idea of a world that we had
no idea about and has been consistent.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
And makes no sense in the real world.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
You know, to not blame the person who's actually committing
these atrocities or who you say is, but versus or
rather than the people who are making him upset, Which
that's kind of an insane thing to think about for me.
And she also said that Cassie wanted her out of
Diddy's inner circle, so you know, she definitely had a
(09:55):
tumultuous relationship with Cassie, and certainly that was explained on
the stand at least by ca Capricorn, and it's just
wild to hear all of what she said happened, specifically
on the kid Cutty situation. The cross examination was very
interesting because Ditty's lawyers went after Capricorn because, yes, she's
saying she was kidnapped. She's saying she went against her will.
(10:18):
She's saying he brandished a gun and she felt like
her life was under threat. But they pointed out that
she previously said she went with Ditty to kid Cutty's
house in order to keep him from doing something stupid.
She denied that, says she doesn't remember saying that, And
that's the question. Did she go willingly to protect him,
(10:40):
to do her job or what she thought was her job,
or was she taken against her will.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Look, legal experts out there say this is a very
important part of the prosecution's case. They need to prove
that a crime had taken place here. The kidnapping is
a very very important thing. Not just about sentiments anymore.
It's not just about oh my, this guy's crazy, he
had gun, he did some silly stuff, he was mad,
he was even hitting a woman. No, no, no, that
(11:06):
the kidnapping, they say, is very important in building a
case about a criminal enterprise. So there was another potential
incident in which she was kidnapped, though if they could
possibly prove because Capricorn Clark explained that there was another
incident a different year in which she was in charge
of jewelry for Diddy. That bag went missing and she
(11:27):
was taken robes to an abandoned floor of a building,
a dilapidated building, and was subjected to a light detector
test all day, several days by some big dude who
told her she needed to act right or you're gonna
find yourself in the East River. Yeah, he gave her
that threat when she was so nervous. They couldn't get
a good reading, they said on the light detector, and
(11:48):
he told her you need to calm down because if
I can't get a good reading, they're gonna throw you
in the river. So that's a threat one and potential
kidnapping as well. So that is now the details are
solations in that. But for legal reason, this is very
important for them building.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Theyay, you just put yourself or imagine it does sound
like a scene out of a movie.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
It doesn't sound like real life.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
This was all happening here around the Manhattan area, and
apparently she described this guy, you said, a big dude.
She said he was five times the size of her,
is what she said on the stand, and he was intimidating.
And yes, she said she felt like her life was
under threat because she couldn't relax enough or calm down
enough for the light detector to have a good reading
(12:30):
when that bag of diamonds went missing. She also describes
another incident back in two thousand and six where she
apparently walked up to Ditty's personal chef and made an
offhanded comment because they didn't have turkey bacon, and she said,
I hate living here or something under her breath. The
chef hears it and goes and tells Ditty in the
(12:52):
next room what she just said. And then what Diddy
did next. She claims he came running at her, running
at her from the room and pushed her violently because
and then said, if you don't want to live here,
get the f out of here now, And so she
says she did leave. So you hear all of this
and these stories, what she witnessed, what she experienced, she says,
(13:14):
and she's still begging, years and years later to come
back to work. For him, pleading for his job, for
her job, begging him for forgiveness.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
That was over the Cuddy stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Right, Yeah, she did.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yeah, that was emails, right, she says she sent twenty
fourteen and fifteen. This is one part where they said
she did cry pretty hard on the stand having to
read these emails and what she was begging for forgiveness
for having not told him that Cassie was dating Cutty.
That was ten years ago and she's on the stand there.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Still crying about him said about it.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
And yes, but this is after she's been pushed, after
she's been threatened, after she's been afraid for her life.
She's begging for forgiveness. That's wild to me to hear
hear her talk about this. And then there was an
incident in Central Park.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Now that one is again. She was taking the Central Park.
It was late at night, just Ditty and a security guard.
I this one jumped out of me because I think
about Central Park. We spent so much time in Central Park.
We think about how many times we've run or enjoyed
a There are nothing but happy thoughts. Quite frankly, anytime
I think about Central.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Park, setting of beautiful movies and you're strolling hand in Hanner,
you're taking a beautiful run, or you're taking in you know,
the beautiful scenery and the people. Yeah, you're not thinking
about violent crimes. I mean, I know they can happen,
but certainly it's not what you think of.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
So this is why this one got me and got
maybe a lot of New Yorkers to think. You might
have been, you know, just hanging out in the park
on a pleasant evening and Diddy was threatening to kill
a woman under the cover of darkness somewhere there with
a security guard. She said, yeah, took her to the park.
And this was because she had a previous relationship or
working relationship with Shube Knight, who was a business rival,
(14:54):
a rap rival, rap industry rival with Diddy. She didn't
disclose that previously. He found out about it, got upset
and took her and threatened to.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Kill her.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
In the park.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
And when he fired her, he told her he'd make
her kill herself.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
He's gonna make things that bad for it. And she's
she believes she got blacklist, that she tried unsuccessfully for
a while to find work in the industry. But all
this stuff we're saying about her to this day, if
he if he gets if he's found not innocent, if
he called her and asked her to come back and work,
I absolutely think.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
I mean, if he sound not guilty, you mean, if
he walks, if he walks and gets back.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
What I'm saying, I'm making an extreme point, My point being,
after all we're hearing, I don't think there's a question
that this woman still feels some sense of loyalty to
him and would still return to his circle if she
were allowed to do so.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Would he allow that? I mean, she's being compelled to testify. Obviously,
she's not doing this because she chose to. Most of
the folks on the stand are there because they're compelled to,
speaking to their fear of retribution or any sort of retaliation.
And I can't even imagine what these folks are thinking about,
after hearing their testimony and staring at him right there
(16:06):
in the courtroom as they're saying all of these mind
blowing things, what it would be like for them if
he is not convicted. I haven't even gone there, but
I'm just now thinking about what that must feel like,
the fear and the trepidation that might speak to some
of the sobbing and the crying.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
She's probably so.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Conflicted and so torn about what to do, what to say,
and what not to do.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
One thing she did do.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Despite all the things, perhaps negative, that she said about
Cassie Ventura, she absolutely corroborated Cassie's testimony about being beaten
by did He Combs And so many who have gone
up on the stand have done the same. They have
cord Cassie's testimony about the violence she endured from did
(17:02):
He tough to hear. Yeah, she says she saw personally
did He kick Cassie repeatedly while she was in fetal position,
silently crying after he found out about kid Cutti. She
witnessed it first hand.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
That's tough to hear.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
That one was tough to hear. Look, so much of
this testimony has been just brutal and devastating, and to
imagine somebody endured that repeatedly for years. But this was
one I guess I for some reason got very much
a visual of this to imagine. Yeah, I mean, Cassie's
not a big girl, but she's cruel just to be
(17:39):
in that position, essentially giving up, essentially saying please stop,
I'm not fighting you. I have nothing. It's not just
smacking somebody with a hand, to kick somebody repeatedly, tough
to here and this is these are all allegations, but
for some reason, that one is one of all we've
heard that I visualized and had such a reaction to
that description of her and then the crying silently even
(18:01):
that detail.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yes, I mean it's and it was so bad that
Cassie said, sorry, excuse me that Capricorn Clark said she
called Cassie's mom and said, he as in Ditty is
beating the shit out of your daughter, And she said,
this is also so devastating that Cassie's mom told her
I can't call the police, but you can please help her.
(18:28):
That I don't care who you are. You're a mom,
you're a parent. The idea that you're getting a phone
call saying your daughter's being beaten severely and you say
I can't call.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Police, that's a tough one. Can you please help her?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
That's a tough one.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
That is just devastating to me. And to think about
the picture they're painting of Ditty. You know, when you
talk about kicking someone when they're not fighting back, when
they're clearly in a position of protection that you just
keep going after them. That just I can't even get
my head around at That reminds me of people who
(19:05):
hurt animals. When you start hurting the helpless, that's when
it goes to a whole other level of cruelty.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Oh this is to say, right, you should kick a
man when he's down. I just just that visual and
that description that she gave and this, I don't know
what look we talked about. There's plenty here. There's so
many things in here for us to examine, from the
music industry, from the young people who are in it,
(19:34):
to fame, to wealth, to power, to sex, to all
may things. Race. There's so much to examine in here,
But this is one and I hope something we continue
to learn about domestic violence and victims of domestic violence,
being a friend and a family member of folks who
might be going through this stuff. Because these are two
(19:55):
women who I believe loved this girl, that really cared
for Cassie. One is looking at her being kicked repeatedly
and won't call police. Another she calls the girl's mother,
who no one I would argue on the planet loves
Cassie more than her mom and a mom didn't do anything.
What in God's name are we doing? And I'm not
(20:19):
I do not envy. I'm not criticizing the women for
the position that they were in or they were put in,
but what are we doing when that is happening?
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:28):
I think this could be hopefully a wake up call
for a deeper understanding of what actually goes on those dynamics,
the power of them, and what compels people to freeze
or fight. You know, it's it's or you know, it's
like they say, when you're in certain situations that are stressful,
you have the flight or fight, but there's a freeze
(20:50):
as well, and you see.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
That happening a lot.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
When when Capricorn was being cross examined, there was one
and it was I think it was the fun question
that Diddy's attorneys asked Capricorn, and this was fairly devastating.
We talked about how much she bolstered Cassie's testimony and
corroborated her testimony. This last question did the opposite. It certainly,
(21:16):
if anything, it could have planted a seat of doubt
in terms of Cassie's willingness or unwillingness to be a
part of everything.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, and I think what she was up there for
three days Cassie and her testimony, and look, they cross
examined her and their questions about where was she on
that fence right, how much of it was she there
as a victim, how much of it was she an accomplice?
How much was she there willingly doing this stuff? And
(21:44):
I think that they were trying to make a point here,
and I think they made a point to do this
question last. But Cassie was asked, excuse me. Capricorn was
asked about a conversation she'd had with Cassie and she
had told according to Capricorn, was trying to plead with Cassie,
get out of this relationship with Diddy. Stop dating him,
(22:04):
is the advice she was trying to give. And this
robes is what she said. Cassie's response to.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
That was jay Z is taken. Who would I date?
That's hard to hear.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And that's the end of the after all whole days
she's testified. That is the last thing that the jury heard.
And I when I saw it, I was rattled by it.
And you start to consider or rethink, we give a
second thought to other things. You thought maybe you already
put to bed about this case, like, oh, I thought
(22:39):
one thing, but wait a minute, Wow.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Did she stay because and she endured whatever she did
willingly because she liked the fame, she liked the power,
she liked the money, she liked the access, she liked
that life, and so she put up with obvious abuse
that we've heard testified by so many people. I don't
think that is in question whatsoever. But was she complicit
(23:02):
because she liked the end result, even if the means
by which she had to get those results were horrific
and heinous. She chose to be in that world and
to be in that position because she liked the way
she was living.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
That is what the jury now is considering. And they
now only need one juror to buy into that enough
and the next thing, you know, this is not the
guilty verdict that the prosecution is after. And again this
been said in jest. Was she just making a little joke,
But it didn't seem to come off that way, and
it certainly is not why they asked the question at
(23:41):
the end of her testimony. That testimony is going to continue.
She's done. But she was the only one on the
stand yesterday actually went a little past there usual three
o'clock break time in the afternoon. But today four more
witnesses are expected, and I guess what is it. Two
of them would have might have some more personal stories about.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Day, right, So one we'll hear from a Los Angeles
Police Department officer and a Los Angeles Fire Department areson investigator.
But the ones that I think we were just referencing
that will be perhaps the most interesting will be Ditty's stylist,
Deontay Nash. We're going to hear from the stylist, and
then this might be a big one. The government did
(24:21):
say it wanted to call another alleged victim of Ditty's.
This one will be anonymous. They're giving her the moniker
Mia as she takes the stand. Miya is a pseudonym.
We all we know is that she's one of Combe's
former employees and that she wants and wishes to remain anonymous.
We were told some of these women would be coming forward,
(24:42):
but they would not be revealing their identities. So it
will be very interesting to hear what Mia has to
say on the stand today.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
And we will continue to update you here, folks. For now,
I'm TJ. Holmes along with Amy Robot giving you your
daily Diddy Trial update. Thanks for tuning in, We will
check in with you again soon
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Zima
Chris Harrison
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