April 26, 2023 • 40 mins
Chris and Lauren were so sad to hear of the sudden passing of legendary Dancing with the Stars judge, Len Goodman.
They gathered a few Dancing with the Stars friends to share memories and their love for this icon.
In our hearts, he wins the Mirrorball Trophy with all tens.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio Podcast.
Welcome to a very special edition of the most Dramatic
podcast ever. I'm Chris Harrison alongside Lauren Zema from her
home office in Austin, Texas, we woke to the very
sad news that legendary Dancing with the Stars judge had
(00:25):
Judge Lynn Goodman had passed away at the age of
seventy eight. Lynn was just known as a wonderful, kind
giving man. Obviously we all loved to have millions did
watching Dancing with the Stars all those years. He died
in his home, surrounded by his family. He had been
battling bone cancer for quite some time and stepped away
from the show to spend time back home. But when
(00:49):
so much in this day and age is made of
people that are divisive, people that are angry, why not
do a show about someone that everybody just loved. Lynn
was one of those guys that everybody could just rally around.
Even when he was being kind of critical of the dancers,
you knew it came out of a good place.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
They all respected him one hundred percent, and we wanted
to give a couple of those people who worked with
him for so long the time to share their memories
with him. I think we're also in a day and
age where you know, somebody passes and it's kind of
a quick blip and then it's on to the next
And you and I were both just so involved with
this show. I covered Dancing with the Stars for six
(01:30):
seven years with Entertainment Tonight. You saw several bachelor people
go on the show, and you'd attended several times, and
so we just wanted to reach out to some of
our dancer friends and former contestant friends and share some
memories of Len and talk about a show that we
both loved and a guy who everybody, as you said,
loved and respected.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I remember when the show was being pitched and an
ABC executive came in our control room and said, we're
talking about so By the way, Lynn was also the
judge of Strictly Calm Dancing. That is what Dancing with
the Stars is. It was a BBC show first, same
thing celebrities, you know, dancing with pro dancers. Lynn was
on that show and for many years he would go
(02:11):
back and forth between the BBC show and then come
to Hollywood and do Dancing with the Stars. And when
I remember what it was pitched. I'm like, I don't
know slabs pro dancers. Clearly I was wrong. And Tony
Bernielli who was also a judge, He came over from
Strictly Come Dancing and they spent many, many years together.
But I remember Trista Wrenn. Trista was the first. She
(02:35):
was our bachelorette, and she was the first person ever
voted off Dancing with the Stars. She was, Yes, she
has the dubious honors.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
So when they was the first elimination of the first season.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
And they of the show. So when the show started,
you know that that started this symbiotic relationship. Obviously we're
all in the ABC family on primetime and Dancing with
Air when The Bachelor wasn't on, and so often they
used people from our show. Well, it all started with Trista,
our first bachelorette. But yeah, she had dubious honor. The
first person in the history of the show ever voted
(03:07):
off was Trista.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Well, it also sort of became kind of a controversial
battle between your shows. I guess I would interview pros
a lot of the time, would say some of them
that they struggled with when Bachelor contestants were on because
they would have this strong fandom voting for them that
wasn't actually watching Dancing with the Stars like the Bachelor Nation,
fans would vote for the contestants, but they weren't actually watching,
(03:30):
which bothered the pros sometimes and it also sort of
held over contestants head sometimes whether they would be able
to go be on the show.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Well, like I mean, you remember infamously, you remember Sean
Loh did so well because he was so beloved. Caitlin Bristow,
Hannah Brown, those are the people that did so great
on the show, and they danced really well. Not Sean,
the ladies did. And he'll be the first to tell you,
but you're right, I remember you. During the voting, it
was a lot of well, this is a popularity contest.
The Bachelor has this built in fandom, and it just
(03:59):
went to show up about how beloved these people were
when they came off The Bachelor of bache Arette at
the time.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
But Lenn rose above it all.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
He did well. And to your point, I was on
the show quite a bit where I would stop by
and support whoever it was that was dancing at the time,
and I spent a lot of time with the judges.
I knew Carrie and Ama very well and got to
meet Lynn and spend a lot of time with him.
We'd be at ABC events. Just always such a kind,
(04:25):
good man, just a gentleman, Always a smile on his face,
a twinkle in his eye, always light on his step.
He looked and carried himself like a dancer, which he,
by the way, was he in his teens. He was
a competitive dancer and went on I believe it was
in his late twenties when he won the British championship.
He was the best dancer in the UK. So that's
(04:47):
where it came from. It came from his competitive edge.
And when he stopped competitive dancing, he's like, I'm done
with that. But obviously he was perfect for this job
which was created and then came to the States and
Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
That's something I love about Dancing with the Stars is
that the judges have always been people with legitimate experience.
You know, It's not like when Ellen DeGeneres was member,
when she was brought on to judge American Idol, right,
and everybody's like, why is this half right? But you know,
Lenn had an incredible pedigree, and I think I read
(05:22):
in one of the obituaries written about him this really
sweet quote. He said something like, you know, I'm just
a guy who got lucky. He was always very humble
as well that he became this dancer, But in terms
of this fame and becoming this judge and being on television,
he just viewed that he got lucky.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
He did an interview and he said, I want this
to be my obituary. He said, you can write it,
he said, and this is the quote you were talking about.
He was a dance teacher from Dartford who got lucky.
Because that's just about the truth of it. The self
deprecation clearly in that, but it doesn't tell the story
of how beloved he was. And so Elsie and I thought,
(06:00):
let's do a show just for a good man that
left a big impression on millions of people as we
watched him for the better part of two decades. And
as Lauren said, we're going to talk to some former
professional dancers, a couple of the celebrities who danced on
the show, and just hear their stories, the people that
were in the trenches with them day in and day out,
and so Lenn Goodman, this show is for you. Lindsay
(06:24):
Arnold became a professional dancer on season sixteen of Dancing
with the Stars. At the time, I remember when she
came in. If I'm not mistaken, it was about the
same time Whitney came in.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yes, we've all started the same season.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I remember meeting both of you at an ABC event.
You were the second youngest dancer and Dance with the
Star's history. Obviously you heard the story about Lenn passing away,
and I know he was someone near and dear to you,
as he was to everybody in that Dancing with the
Stars family. Can you shed some light on who he was,
what he meant?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yes, I mean, I think the outpouring of love that
we've seen has just really just paid tribute to him
as a person. But I don't think there's enough that
we could possibly say or do to like truly capture
how incredible this man was. I was somebody who had
watched Dancing with the Stars from season one, started out
as a die hard fan, like twelve year old me
(07:20):
sitting on my couch every single week, and Len was
always there, like he was a part of the show
from the beginning, and truly. The best way I can
discreim is he was the heart of the show, Like
he really really was. So it was so cool for
me because coming from a position of being a fan
watching these judges and watching Len in particular, and then
getting to be a part of the show and getting
(07:42):
to interact with him, I have to say, honestly, and
I think everybody would probably say the same thing, like
Len gives off this really like mean, like he gave
off this I'm a grumpy man vibe. But it was
the coolest thing ever to have that switch from like
feeling that and being like, oh, I'm so nervous to
meet Len, to literally be the most welcoming, warm, kind
(08:04):
person I had ever met in my life. It was
the coolest shift, Like, and it was that first season.
I saw it right away, Like it didn't take a
long time for me to see this incredible man that
he was. It was pretty instantaneous where I'm like, no,
he is a kind human and he says it like
it is, which is what made the show so incredible.
He never held back and he wasn't going to sugarcoat things,
(08:25):
and that's why I think people respected about him so much.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Lin's it seemed to me, And actually I should share
one thing about Len was he really didn't do the
press lines much because he usually was like flying back
to England. And I don't know how much you hung
out with him off stage, you know, in between when
the cameras were actually rolling. But was he that same
person or it seemed to me always like he would
(08:49):
be the type who'd probably come up to you after
the cameras stopped rolling and still give you that same feedback,
and that he was genuine through and through and he
would even be tough on you behind the scenes a
little bit, but in a good way.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
That is exactly it. It's that there was nothing like
him putting on a show. What you saw from Len,
no matter when it was is what was truly him.
And I think that was so special about him is
he was authentic to his core. And it's true he
would not come off stage and be like sorry I
had to say that. No he said something, it's because
(09:21):
he meant it, he felt it, he stood behind it,
and we all really respected that because we're like, that's
your opinion, that is what your job is.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Not to take anything. It all away from Carrie An
and Bruno who were lovely in their own right and
added their own little thumbprint to the show. But when
you're standing there as a dancer with your celebrity partner
and you're awaiting the judge's words, how much weight and
what did it mean when Len spoke?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Oh, that was everything, And like you said, it's like
no disrespect to the other judges, but Len was like
you cared so much about Len's opinion and it was
a universal thing, like we all felt it. And I
think it's just because of that authenticity that we knew
was there, Like we knew that what he said was
(10:08):
what he felt, and like we knew it was coming
from a place of like, Okay, whatever Len says, I've
got to listen to that. And it's true. It's true
for the good and the bad. If Lenn said something bad,
it hits you a little bit harder than the others.
And when he said something really good, you were like
even that much more stoked. And I love that, like
him getting a ten from Len became this thing that
(10:28):
like was such a prized possession.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
It meant so much, the ten from Lenn.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
It literally was like prize. And it's funny because I
feel like, as pros, we would kind of have to
explain that to our celebs because the celebs come in,
they're like a ten from Anyone's fine, We're like, yes, yes,
but yeah, the ten from Len. Because I feel like,
here's the thing. I feel like Len was one of
the most known judges to kind of talk to the
pros as well, to get after the pros if there
(10:54):
wasn't enough content, and kind of I feel like he
was the first one to kind of start not like
like discouraging the pros, but in a way like he
would be hard on us and it was good because
we needed it and we needed to hear that. So
it's like when we got that positive feedback from him,
I feel like it was also like he was giving
us a pat on the back, which felt really really good.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
How did he balance that with you, Lindsey? Or maybe
was it hard in the beginning though, because you and
Whitney were so young. I mean, you're not even you know,
full grown, experienced adult professional dancers on stage at that point,
but you're up there getting the feedback from Len along
with everybody else.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yeah, I think it was a little bit scary. I
think too, because when Whitney and I joined the show.
I feel like it started kind of shifting from being
just strict ballroom, Like all you saw was ballroom. There
was never any other styles or anything kind of incorporated.
And because we were cross trained, we did bring a
little bit of that, like we'd do a chow job,
but maybe we'd throw a little hip hop section in there,
and you know, Len hasn't always loved that, so but
(11:49):
it was cool because here's the thing, there was such
a respect between Len and the pros, Like we knew
what he liked to see, and we knew if we
were going to go a little different that he probably
was wasn't going to be on board with it. And
I feel like he always just paid so much respect
to the pros for our work, but then at the
same time was like, this is what I like and
you know that, and if you're gonna choose not to
(12:11):
do it, then I'm going to comment on it. So
it was like this mutual respect. But I feel like
it definitely shook things up when things started shifting a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
To echo off what LZ was just saying, Lens was,
was he a bit of a father figure? He was
probably a bit of a father figure over the entire franchise,
but to you and Whitney, maybe in a very real
way because you were so young, did he have that
effect on you? Did he kind of take you under
his wing of like helping you along as you were
so young starting on this show.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
I think the guidance that Len gave from behind the
table for me personally, I mean, he can't speak for everybody,
but for me personally was such a very It was
a driving force for the way that I became as
a choreographer, as a teacher, because, like I said, I
came into the show, I had a lot of different
style experience, and I wanted to be individual, Like I
wanted to bring a new flavor, something different that everybody
hadn't seen. But the same time, I feel like Len
(13:00):
really guided me and helped me make sure I was
keeping the integrity of the show and maintaining what the
show is all about, but then also like bringing my
own flair, and I love that he encouraged but also
like kept us in line. I think that was I
think it's very important. I think it's the reason that
the show has done as well as it has because
he really helped keep the integrity of the show.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Well, you've spoken him so well. Uh, Lin's even in
just these few minutes. And I got to ask you though,
and I have to thank you because I was just
looking at your Instagram story before you came on here.
You're not like heading to the hospital in a minute,
are you, because.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
I just I mean, we hope not, but it could.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
My du date is.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Next Friday, so I'm like, we could go at any point.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Which is exciting.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
Okay, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Let's make it happen.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
You're pregnant with baby number two. And I felt back
as I messaged you, can you please come do this
tribute to Len? And then I was looking at your
Instagram stories and You're like, I'm on one cent of
your time.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
You're literally sitting here in labor technically who he's talking
to you right?
Speaker 3 (14:00):
So but it's worth it.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
It is.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
When I heard you were doing this for Lin, I'm like,
of course, like I I can't like of course, of
course he was so special to me, to everybody. I mean,
it means so much that you're doing this too, So
I'm glad I could be a part of it.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Well, before I let you go have a baby, do
you have a goodbye story before before we leave you
that just kind of encapsulates Len. Something you remember, something
that you'll always remember.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
I'll never forget this because it was one of my
worst moments on the show and also one of my best.
This was season twenty two. My partner was yan Ye Morris.
It was the semi finals, very important week. Me and
wan Yer had like a really really great dance, like
probably one of his strongest dances. We were put last
in the show, like everything was set up for us
to be like good, and we had some props in
(14:51):
this dance and I dropped my prop and wan Ye,
my partner, slipped on the prop that I dropped, okay,
and then messed up like the entire rest of the routine,
and it was my fault. And I've never cried or
lost it, but I lost it. I was just a mess.
And funny enough, that same night they did the they
haven't done this in a while, but they paired the
(15:12):
judges with a couple of couples and like had them
to a dance together, and it was me and juan
Ye Morris, and then it was Val and ginger Z.
We did a dance and Len was our judge, and
he actually danced with us, and we had to do
that shortly after I had just had this full debacle,
and I remember that I am like in tears, just
like feeling so miserable. Len walks out. He had like
(15:34):
a ruffel shirt on, and part of the dance was
we did like some shimmies with him, and we're backstage practicing,
and I just had this like surreal moment that I'll
literally never forget, looking at Len, looking at where we were,
realizing that I'm dancing with this legend, this person that
I grew up watching admiring, and now get to work alongside.
(15:55):
I'm shimmying with him on national television. Like there's literally
nothing that could get me down in that moment, and
it was so cool because I needed it and just
his energy like that was also a really cool time
for me because it went from that was I think
my first experience with Len, where it went from like
we're we have this kind of like student teacher situation
till we were working together. We quographed the dance together
(16:16):
and then taught the celebrities together, and it was just
such a special moment and I'll never forget because it
was literally one of my worst nights on Dance with
the Stars, and then he made it one of my
most memorable things that I will literally never forget.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Clearly a man that left an impression on you, as
he did millions of other people. Lindsay Arnold, thank you
so much. Danced for a decade, ten years on Dancing
with the Stars. Hard to believe, yes, and even harder
to believe that she's sitting there in labor right now.
And let me just say, God, bless you on a healthy, happy,
beautiful baby.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
That means so much to me.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Thanks for having me. We love you, Lenz. Could we
see you back on the show where I actually haven't
talked to you in a while, or are you like
busy at home with babies now?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
So I don't really know. I really like people ask
all the time, and like I've not closed the door
at all, Like I definitely have not. I've never said like,
oh I'm done forever. And when I had the conversation
with the show, it was really just like timing. It's
just gonna have to be a timing thing.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
So we'll see.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
I'm sure that two kids is going to rock my
world even more than one, so we will see how
those things.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
First.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Let's just let's take care of the baby this week out, then.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
We'll assess how things are.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
So many congrats and thank you for talking to us,
and hopefully we'll see in person soon.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Thanks Linz, guys, Thank you guys, have a good day.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Joining us.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Now.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Another professional dancer, Emma Slater, who kind of came to
the show maybe a little bit differently. She was part
of the troupe, uh, you know, the ensemble that would
dance in the show, and then out of that was
picked to be one of the professional dancers and has
gone on to have an amazing career on Dance with
the Stars. So, Imma, just first of all, the sad
(18:05):
news about lenn and what he meant to you.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
Yeah, it was so heartbreaking to me. Len is like
a grandfather and he's been in my life since I
was about twelve or thirteen. We're both from England and
I grew up in the competitive world and Len is
actually a very very very well respected judge from England.
(18:29):
He grew up he's like the legend of ballroom and
so he would judge a lot of the competitions that
I was at so overall, losing him, someone who has
been a part of my life throughout many different facets
of it, was really shocking. I was not expecting that.
I didn't know he was as sick as he was,
and I hope he wasn't in pain, but yeah, it
(18:51):
was a real shock yesterday.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Can you give a little more light on that, because
we all know Lyn over here in the States is
Dancing with the Stars and clearly he was strictly come
dancing with the BBC also though very visible, but maybe
talk about what a legend he was in dance. You've again,
he's been judging your competition since you were a little girl.
And he is the name, and he has a dance company,
(19:13):
he has a dance school in England, so his name
still carries on.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Oh yeah, it's still good.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
I mean he is as ballroom, as tight laced as
they come. He would turn up to these competitions which
were held every Sunday in England and everybody came, and
he would come and look so smart and dapper, always
in a suit. I remember I saw him in jeans
for the first time at Dancing with the Stars and
he was just backstage and he had a white t
(19:42):
shirt on and jeans, and I've never seen him outside
of a shirt or in any of the pants other
than trowser pants like soup pounds. So from me, it
was quite a shock, like I've never seen him so relaxed,
and he was talking about golf.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Actually he loved golf. But way back in England.
Speaker 6 (19:59):
When he adjudicating, he was the Lend that you saw
on screen, only you didn't get to know how you know,
playful and wise and grumpy he was because he would
just be standing there with a pen and paper and
God bless him, he always marked me really well. So
I remember my parents would take me to every competition
where they knew he was a judge because they knew, oh,
(20:21):
Lens on the panel, he'll mark her into the finals.
So we would drive like sometimes four hours every Sunday
just to go to a competition where he was and
I might, honestly, I might even have got his autograph
when I was maybe twelve or thirteen because he was
such a legend. That was just the thing to do,
is you looked up to the people that were extremely
(20:43):
respected and wise in the field, and definitely Lend was
one of them.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Emma, I feel like you have a unique story then,
because most people say he critiques so harshly. What was
that connection that you had that he would mark you?
Speaker 6 (20:56):
Well, I know, and well you know when I came
into the whole Dancing with the Stars realm and became
judged on national TV by him, he was the judge
that I absolutely generated the most I don't want to
say the word fear, but I was the most anxious
about Len's comment because he had judged me from such
(21:17):
a young age, and and so I really hung onto
his every word because he was an actual judge to me.
He wasn't just a TV judge. He used to do
that throughout my whole childhood and my whole adolescence. So
it was quite a shock to see him in this space.
It was almost like, oh, I couldn't get away from
like the actual judges of my childhood. But I actually
(21:40):
I managed to tell him that. So last season, obviously
he made this announcement or the show made the announcement
that Len was retiring. Absolute shocked to me. I was,
I'm very I'm such a sensitive person. I was balling
my eyes out. And then we went to it wasn't
a commercial break, but the set was changing, so I
(22:01):
had a few moments to go down to the judge's
table and grab his hands and say, hey, I can't
believe that you're retiring.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
You've been part of my life for so long.
Speaker 6 (22:10):
And I gave him a hug and I told him,
you know, remember when you would judge me when I
was a kid, and you were always the best to
me and so sweet. And somebody called it on camera,
and so I actually have that video last season of
me having this moment. And then I walked off and
I got all tiary and now I'm so grateful for
that and that I had those few short minutes with him,
(22:33):
because I mean, I guess time is precious, and I
just didn't know that he wouldn't be here for me
to say it to him anymore.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Good lesson, good lesson, And you talk to him.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
And when was the last time he got an a
talk to him? Emma?
Speaker 4 (22:44):
It was last season.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
It was around about maybe a week after that was
the finals, and I congratulated and told him what an
amazing legacy he has in the show, and just congratulated
him for being a part of the show and.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Told him to told him to play golf.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
He absolutely loved golf, so we would talk about that
quite a bit. Actually, I have no interest in golf whatsoever,
but I just knew that he would just talk about
it at the time and he would love it and
sort of like light up. So told him to do
all that and that I would be seeing him soon,
which course isn't going to happen, but he's always going
to be with us.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
I'm glad you have that moment.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 6 (23:25):
I really, looking back on it, it's made me think, God,
I got to take more of those moments with more people.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Well, it sounds like he was I mean I even
in covering the show, I was saying earlier he didn't
always do the press line. I think he did. He
keep a little bit of that private boundary even though
you guys still felt quite close to him.
Speaker 6 (23:45):
Yeah, even backstage, it's almost like you didn't know whether
you could go up to him because he did like
to take that line and sometimes you would. Sometimes he
would absolutely drill you on the dance floor. You'd be
standing there getting a comment. And I remember with James
(24:06):
Van der Beeek he said, tooty fruity, what a booty
and then and then afterwards you would want to go
and approach him and be like, oh, thank you for
your comments, or like that was that was such a
funny remark. Like you would always talk about tea or
prune Drew's or something quite essentially British, but you would
never know if you were able to come up to
him and talk to him, because he did like to
(24:27):
keep a separation. He loved being in his trailer, he
loved having his teas, and you know you did okay,
but sometimes he would sometimes he'd be like, love what
you did, and then you felt it, you.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Know, Well, can I ask you, I'm having known him
so long, what did you take from him about teaching? What?
What has? What did you learn from him that you've
brought into the way that you teach, the way that
you teach your partners, the way that you convey what
dances to somebody?
Speaker 6 (24:55):
I think, I mean, Lenny's a person of fundamentals and
he really knows the rule book. So whenever things would
get a little bit crazy in the dances, he would
tell you to keep it in line, and he would
keep you in check and he would be like, don't
be rolling around on the floor, don't be crazy. All
these what wafty arm movements. He was a classic man
(25:15):
who really liked the simple elements and really appreciated the
quintessential beauty of his craft. And so I knew if
I wanted to please Len, I would choreograph it very traditionally,
and I would put a lot of the recognizable steps
in that I knew he loved and that I knew
were part of the boring world. And if I wanted to, like,
you know, make him grumpy, then just don't do any
(25:38):
of that and just do.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Your own thing. But you would hear it. You would
hear about it I get from him.
Speaker 6 (25:43):
I really took the tradition is good, and I will
keep I will honor that and keep that for him.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Oh I like that. That's a good line right there.
Tradition is good, and you'll keep that.
Speaker 6 (25:52):
There's definitely going to be something that I will do
in the future that will be dedicated to him, for sure.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
And I think even taking the time. What's funny is
you're not too far from us. You're in Austin, but
you're only here briefly, so we're still doing this on zoom.
What are you doing down here? Are you meeting a cowboy.
What's going on? Can we set you up with a
nice Texas cowboy?
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Oh, a Texas cowboy would be lovely.
Speaker 6 (26:14):
I've not had the pleasure of meeting on the Texas
Cowboys so far in Austin, but I'm going to see
James van Derbeek and we were just talking about him
on the season, and actually our Fonso is going to
be here too, so we're actually having a mini reunion.
It was planned before the tragic news of Land, but
it will be actually quite nice to be amongst people
(26:34):
that can kind of celebrate and honor him.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
So I'm just here visiting my friends for a couple
of days.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Well, Emma, thank you so much for the time. Truly
appreciate it in your thoughts of Land and your perspective,
because you have a perspective nobody has, which is knowing
him virtually your entire life. So appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Thank you so much, and thank you for honoring him.
I love that you guys are great.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
It was great talking to a couple of the professional
dancers to get their perspective and their reverence of Len
and what he meant. But I wanted to talk to
a couple of the celebrities, and there are plenty that
came out of the Bachelor Bachelorette world, and one of
them joins me now from his home in Iowa. I
believe he's in Iowa right now. Chris Soles was our
bachelor and then he was, of course on Dancing with
(27:29):
the Stars. His dancing partner was Whitney Carson. I believe
it was season twenty of Dancing with the Stars. You
were on how you doing, Bud.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
I'm well, Chris, how are you doing? Great?
Speaker 7 (27:41):
Man?
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I appreciate you spending some time to talk about a
man that meant so much to everybody. And I wanted
to get a couple of celebrity perspectives on this. What
did Lynn mean to you guys as celebrity dancers? What
was his imp act?
Speaker 7 (28:02):
You know?
Speaker 8 (28:03):
The first time I met Lynn was outside a hotel
I think it's Orlando and in West Hollywood, and that
was when I just got He asked me the bachelor.
Speaker 5 (28:14):
He had no idea who.
Speaker 8 (28:15):
I was, and I knew who he was, and I
sat down next to him and I just told him
what I was going through. And I said, yeah, they
just asked me to be a bachelor, and whatever and.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
He said, well, you know what that means.
Speaker 8 (28:31):
I means you're probably gonna be in I'm Dancing with
the Stars like no now a chance in hell. And uh, yeah,
that was that was my first time meeting Lynn. And
then you know his impact on me. It was incredible
just to have a ton of respect for him. And
(28:52):
he brought a presence to that show that was you know,
brought a legitimacy to that show, which was remarkable, and
and uh and uh, just just a brilliant guy.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Obviously, the professional dancers talked about the reverence they had
and trying to get a good score and a good
word from Lend. But you're saying that the celebrities felt
that as well, even though that wasn't your world.
Speaker 8 (29:18):
I think everyone respected that. I mean, when you go
into that world, you ark shut. He wanted to be
professional and and I don't know, I guess that's where
my heart was.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
And and and you.
Speaker 8 (29:28):
Couldn't you couldn't really argue with his his presence and
his background. He was the real deal, you know, and
and there was he wasn't in it to say say
things that were anything but the truth.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And when he seemed to, he seemed to appreciate. Uh,
and I remember you you you know, you and I
talked about this, if you're going to do it. He
appreciated when celebrities put their heart and soul into it
and actually went for it. He knew you weren't professional,
he knew you guys weren't great, but he really seemed
to appreciate your effort and your love of dance and
(30:06):
your love of all of that was dancing with the stars.
That seemed to be what resonated with me towards the
celebrities and and you in particular, because you did. You
were kind of the country guy. It's like, oh, he's
not really going to do this, but you did, like
you really sold out for that and you went for
it with all your heart as you typically do with
everything you do. Was that something that you felt from Lend.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
Yeah, I know hund percent.
Speaker 8 (30:32):
I respect any person in any profession that that really,
as you know, has their heart in it, and he
had his heart in that profession. There was no question,
as do I with you know, whether it's farming or
what our experience together on the show on the batch,
are you're there, enter or you're out? Not those kind
(30:55):
of things resonate. You know, when you see somebody that
you just can't deny, that doesn't matter what you say.
Speaker 5 (31:01):
Words are words are just options. When you when you
see somebody.
Speaker 8 (31:06):
That has you just know, you just know, no, no
fool fool bullshit, you just know. And that was Len
and he was a good man. You just could tell.
And it's a loss to see him go.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah, well, hey, Bud, I appreciate it. It's good to
see you again. And uh, I appreciate you pulling off
on the side of the road to share a few
words and thoughts and memories of uh Lynn goodman. I
appreciate it. And uh, you're good in life. Life treating
you well.
Speaker 8 (31:36):
In Iowa, we are planting corn and uh just doing
God's work over here and one day at a time.
Speaker 5 (31:45):
Man, Yeah, doing well. How are you?
Speaker 1 (31:48):
I'm doing wonderful.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Family is good, everybody's healthy and and uh that's that's
all right. And uh so I appreciate it. Was it
was good to see you at Well's wedding and I
miss seeing you and hopefully our pasti across again soon.
Speaker 8 (32:02):
Likewise, like thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Good to see you, man, Hi brother, take care. He
was our Bachelor, and then he appeared on season ten
of Dancing with the Stars joining me. Now, Jake, Pavelka, Jake,
it has been a while, my friend, How are you
doing it?
Speaker 7 (32:19):
Sure? Has Chris doing really well? I missed you.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
How's everything going really good?
Speaker 1 (32:24):
I'm sorry, we're uh, you know, reconvening under these circumstances.
But I wanted to get, you know, your perspective on
a guy that we all loved and adored, Lynn Goodman,
who passed away, and hearing the perspective of the celebrities,
I think is interesting because he was so revered as
this godfather and this you know, huge, huge all star
(32:49):
of dancing. So the professionals loved and adored him and
admired him. But I'm wondering, what did you think of
Lynn when you met him or heard of him as
a judge on Dancing?
Speaker 7 (32:59):
Well, you know my takeaway from dancing as far as
you know, it's been been many, many years, but he
you know, Bruno Tagnoli is really funny carry in and
Abba is just a huge character with a huge personality,
brings a lot of the show. Lynn. Lynn was the
you know, the the cutting edge professional and he cared
(33:20):
about everybody. Uh, you know, he genuinely, no matter what
your skill level, gave you advice at your current level
to because he wanted to see you succeed. And I
think he was always disappointed, you know, when when somebody
just wasn't quite going to get it, or when somebody
had a breakthrough, and that's you know, that's that's the
(33:41):
most memorable takeaway. Something funny though, when when we were
shooting the show in twenty ten, they keep everybody at
the you know, at the same apartment complex there in
Los Angeles, real close to maybe s Television City. And
I don't know how old Linn was at the time,
(34:02):
but yeah, he wore a bright speedo by the pool.
You'd see him down there frequently getting some son.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
A side of Lynn you didn't necessarily need to see
or or want to.
Speaker 7 (34:18):
But you know what, that's okay because he was just
as happy as a lark by the pool, didn't care
what anybody thought. Such a great guy. I'm so sad
to learn that he's passed away.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah, you know, I think everybody's sentiment is the same
of you know, one of the dancers we talked to
earlier just kind of summed it up as he was
the heart of the show, kind of this father's figure
and earning his respect, earning his words meant a lot
to you.
Speaker 7 (34:45):
Guys, It really did, because Lynn was you know, I mean,
most of the people that are on Dancing with the Stars,
including the professionals, you know, they're they're entertainers. Lynn Lynn
is a dancer and a teacher, instructor, a very effective instructor,
because you know, one of the big things on that show.
One of the things that I kind of struggled with
(35:06):
a little bit is just because you were a crazy
dancer and just do some incredible things with your body
on a dance floor does not mean that you can
explain that to somebody. You know, how to do what
you're doing and when, and Lynn just had that muscle
that he could flex in that he could he could
see what you're doing, you see what you're doing wrong,
(35:28):
and give you very technical details in a very short
amount of time while you're standing there, and not make
you feel judged. You know you were being judged, but
he just had a very delicate way of putting it.
And that's so appreciated because everybody on there, most people
can't dance right unless you're Nicole Scherzinger. But most people
go on there that can't dance and got two lefts
(35:48):
to trying to learn it. They're doing it in front
of America, and it can be it's nerve wracking, and
he just really understood that.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, I think it goes back to he was a
very well renowned a judic cater over in Europe and England,
and so he was used to dealing with kids and
talking to people that are just learning and so uh
he he it's good to hear he had this way
about him and just an amazing man, and it's it's
good to hear the perspective of people that were going
(36:17):
through the process of what what he meant to, even
the celebrities on the show. It's very cool.
Speaker 7 (36:24):
Yes, yeah, absolutely that that's very very well well uh
well stated.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Before I let you go, just your your lasting impression
of Len what you will remember about him forever, you
know what.
Speaker 7 (36:40):
Uh So they didn't capture this on camera, but Chelsea
Iwer my partner and I and it was it was
towards the semifinals. I mean he was episode six or
seven out of the ten. We had a wardrobe malfunction
and nobody saw it except Lynn, And then afterwards he said, Chris,
(37:02):
what happened was, uh, it was a It was a
move where I was, you know, on my knees and
I was spinning Chelsea real fast twice and she moves her,
you know, spins around twice in my arms, and somehow
my hand got mixed up with her wardrobe and went
right into the front of her fold, and I got it.
(37:25):
Bless her heart, you know, it is what it is.
Nobody saw it. America didn't say anything when it aired.
She Chelsea and I thought we were the only two
that actually knew that that happened. Lynn came up after
the show and said, what did you think about that?
He said, I saw what exactly what happened. You guys
(37:45):
gonna start dating right.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
That's a great guy, a great guy, and I appreciate
you taking the time to share your perspective. It's been
a while and hopefully we won't wait so long before
we catch up again.
Speaker 7 (38:00):
My friend, Yes, sir, I'd love that, all.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Right, Jake Pavelka appreciate.
Speaker 7 (38:04):
It, you bet, Take care, Chris, thank you, My.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Thanks to the professional dancers. Lindsay Arnold Imma Slater and
celebrity dancers Chris Sols Jake Pavelka for their perspective and
their words for Lynn Goodman, who we lost this week.
We remember him through their words as this adjudicator, this judge,
(38:32):
this celebrity, and he was a celebrity in the world
of dance and was huge and the BBC was huge
on ABC with Dancing with the Stars and did an
amazing job and touched millions and millions of lives, as
Lendsay Arnold said, shaped her life and Emma Slater from
the age of twelve shaped her life. But I think
(38:54):
if he were here, he would agree that the greatest
job he ever held was that of husband, father and grandfather.
And I said this earlier, but to repeat it because
it is such a Lynn Goodman thing to say. The
obituary that he had written for himself was he was
(39:19):
a dance teacher from Dartford who got lucky. Because that's
just about the truth of it. Well, Len, with all
due respect, I know those are your words, but you
were so much more than that. You made such a
bigger impact than that. And people often say at a
funeral and at times like this, what is legacy legacy
(39:42):
is that lasting impression the lives you change when you
were long gone, and that Lynn Goodman was not luck.
That was all you. So thank you for a life
well lived and for all that you gave us for
this many years. And I appreciate you the listener indulging
(40:04):
Lauren and I for doing this special episode today for
Lynn Goodman. Truly appreciate it. And we will talk to
you next time because we have a lot more to
talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at
the most dramatic pod ever and make sure to write
us a review and leave us five stars. I'll talk
to you next time.
This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio Podcast.
Welcome to a very special edition of the most Dramatic
podcast ever. I'm Chris Harrison alongside Lauren Zema from her
home office in Austin, Texas, we woke to the very
sad news that legendary Dancing with the Stars judge had
(00:25):
Judge Lynn Goodman had passed away at the age of
seventy eight. Lynn was just known as a wonderful, kind
giving man. Obviously we all loved to have millions did
watching Dancing with the Stars all those years. He died
in his home, surrounded by his family. He had been
battling bone cancer for quite some time and stepped away
from the show to spend time back home. But when
(00:49):
so much in this day and age is made of
people that are divisive, people that are angry, why not
do a show about someone that everybody just loved. Lynn
was one of those guys that everybody could just rally around.
Even when he was being kind of critical of the dancers,
you knew it came out of a good place.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
They all respected him one hundred percent, and we wanted
to give a couple of those people who worked with
him for so long the time to share their memories
with him. I think we're also in a day and
age where you know, somebody passes and it's kind of
a quick blip and then it's on to the next
And you and I were both just so involved with
this show. I covered Dancing with the Stars for six
(01:30):
seven years with Entertainment Tonight. You saw several bachelor people
go on the show, and you'd attended several times, and
so we just wanted to reach out to some of
our dancer friends and former contestant friends and share some
memories of Len and talk about a show that we
both loved and a guy who everybody, as you said,
loved and respected.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I remember when the show was being pitched and an
ABC executive came in our control room and said, we're
talking about so By the way, Lynn was also the
judge of Strictly Calm Dancing. That is what Dancing with
the Stars is. It was a BBC show first, same
thing celebrities, you know, dancing with pro dancers. Lynn was
on that show and for many years he would go
(02:11):
back and forth between the BBC show and then come
to Hollywood and do Dancing with the Stars. And when
I remember what it was pitched. I'm like, I don't
know slabs pro dancers. Clearly I was wrong. And Tony
Bernielli who was also a judge, He came over from
Strictly Come Dancing and they spent many, many years together.
But I remember Trista Wrenn. Trista was the first. She
(02:35):
was our bachelorette, and she was the first person ever
voted off Dancing with the Stars. She was, Yes, she
has the dubious honors.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
So when they was the first elimination of the first season.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
And they of the show. So when the show started,
you know that that started this symbiotic relationship. Obviously we're
all in the ABC family on primetime and Dancing with
Air when The Bachelor wasn't on, and so often they
used people from our show. Well, it all started with Trista,
our first bachelorette. But yeah, she had dubious honor. The
first person in the history of the show ever voted
(03:07):
off was Trista.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Well, it also sort of became kind of a controversial
battle between your shows. I guess I would interview pros
a lot of the time, would say some of them
that they struggled with when Bachelor contestants were on because
they would have this strong fandom voting for them that
wasn't actually watching Dancing with the Stars like the Bachelor Nation,
fans would vote for the contestants, but they weren't actually watching,
(03:30):
which bothered the pros sometimes and it also sort of
held over contestants head sometimes whether they would be able
to go be on the show.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Well, like I mean, you remember infamously, you remember Sean
Loh did so well because he was so beloved. Caitlin Bristow,
Hannah Brown, those are the people that did so great
on the show, and they danced really well. Not Sean,
the ladies did. And he'll be the first to tell you,
but you're right, I remember you. During the voting, it
was a lot of well, this is a popularity contest.
The Bachelor has this built in fandom, and it just
(03:59):
went to show up about how beloved these people were
when they came off The Bachelor of bache Arette at
the time.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
But Lenn rose above it all.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
He did well. And to your point, I was on
the show quite a bit where I would stop by
and support whoever it was that was dancing at the time,
and I spent a lot of time with the judges.
I knew Carrie and Ama very well and got to
meet Lynn and spend a lot of time with him.
We'd be at ABC events. Just always such a kind,
(04:25):
good man, just a gentleman, Always a smile on his face,
a twinkle in his eye, always light on his step.
He looked and carried himself like a dancer, which he,
by the way, was he in his teens. He was
a competitive dancer and went on I believe it was
in his late twenties when he won the British championship.
He was the best dancer in the UK. So that's
(04:47):
where it came from. It came from his competitive edge.
And when he stopped competitive dancing, he's like, I'm done
with that. But obviously he was perfect for this job
which was created and then came to the States and
Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
That's something I love about Dancing with the Stars is
that the judges have always been people with legitimate experience.
You know, It's not like when Ellen DeGeneres was member,
when she was brought on to judge American Idol, right,
and everybody's like, why is this half right? But you know,
Lenn had an incredible pedigree, and I think I read
(05:22):
in one of the obituaries written about him this really
sweet quote. He said something like, you know, I'm just
a guy who got lucky. He was always very humble
as well that he became this dancer, But in terms
of this fame and becoming this judge and being on television,
he just viewed that he got lucky.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
He did an interview and he said, I want this
to be my obituary. He said, you can write it,
he said, and this is the quote you were talking about.
He was a dance teacher from Dartford who got lucky.
Because that's just about the truth of it. The self
deprecation clearly in that, but it doesn't tell the story
of how beloved he was. And so Elsie and I thought,
(06:00):
let's do a show just for a good man that
left a big impression on millions of people as we
watched him for the better part of two decades. And
as Lauren said, we're going to talk to some former
professional dancers, a couple of the celebrities who danced on
the show, and just hear their stories, the people that
were in the trenches with them day in and day out,
and so Lenn Goodman, this show is for you. Lindsay
(06:24):
Arnold became a professional dancer on season sixteen of Dancing
with the Stars. At the time, I remember when she
came in. If I'm not mistaken, it was about the
same time Whitney came in.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yes, we've all started the same season.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I remember meeting both of you at an ABC event.
You were the second youngest dancer and Dance with the
Star's history. Obviously you heard the story about Lenn passing away,
and I know he was someone near and dear to you,
as he was to everybody in that Dancing with the
Stars family. Can you shed some light on who he was,
what he meant?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yes, I mean, I think the outpouring of love that
we've seen has just really just paid tribute to him
as a person. But I don't think there's enough that
we could possibly say or do to like truly capture
how incredible this man was. I was somebody who had
watched Dancing with the Stars from season one, started out
as a die hard fan, like twelve year old me
(07:20):
sitting on my couch every single week, and Len was
always there, like he was a part of the show
from the beginning, and truly. The best way I can
discreim is he was the heart of the show, Like
he really really was. So it was so cool for
me because coming from a position of being a fan
watching these judges and watching Len in particular, and then
getting to be a part of the show and getting
(07:42):
to interact with him, I have to say, honestly, and
I think everybody would probably say the same thing, like
Len gives off this really like mean, like he gave
off this I'm a grumpy man vibe. But it was
the coolest thing ever to have that switch from like
feeling that and being like, oh, I'm so nervous to
meet Len, to literally be the most welcoming, warm, kind
(08:04):
person I had ever met in my life. It was
the coolest shift, Like, and it was that first season.
I saw it right away, Like it didn't take a
long time for me to see this incredible man that
he was. It was pretty instantaneous where I'm like, no,
he is a kind human and he says it like
it is, which is what made the show so incredible.
He never held back and he wasn't going to sugarcoat things,
(08:25):
and that's why I think people respected about him so much.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Lin's it seemed to me, And actually I should share
one thing about Len was he really didn't do the
press lines much because he usually was like flying back
to England. And I don't know how much you hung
out with him off stage, you know, in between when
the cameras were actually rolling. But was he that same
person or it seemed to me always like he would
(08:49):
be the type who'd probably come up to you after
the cameras stopped rolling and still give you that same feedback,
and that he was genuine through and through and he
would even be tough on you behind the scenes a
little bit, but in a good way.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
That is exactly it. It's that there was nothing like
him putting on a show. What you saw from Len,
no matter when it was is what was truly him.
And I think that was so special about him is
he was authentic to his core. And it's true he
would not come off stage and be like sorry I
had to say that. No he said something, it's because
(09:21):
he meant it, he felt it, he stood behind it,
and we all really respected that because we're like, that's
your opinion, that is what your job is.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Not to take anything. It all away from Carrie An
and Bruno who were lovely in their own right and
added their own little thumbprint to the show. But when
you're standing there as a dancer with your celebrity partner
and you're awaiting the judge's words, how much weight and
what did it mean when Len spoke?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Oh, that was everything, And like you said, it's like
no disrespect to the other judges, but Len was like
you cared so much about Len's opinion and it was
a universal thing, like we all felt it. And I
think it's just because of that authenticity that we knew
was there, Like we knew that what he said was
(10:08):
what he felt, and like we knew it was coming
from a place of like, Okay, whatever Len says, I've
got to listen to that. And it's true. It's true
for the good and the bad. If Lenn said something bad,
it hits you a little bit harder than the others.
And when he said something really good, you were like
even that much more stoked. And I love that, like
him getting a ten from Len became this thing that
(10:28):
like was such a prized possession.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
It meant so much, the ten from Lenn.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
It literally was like prize. And it's funny because I
feel like, as pros, we would kind of have to
explain that to our celebs because the celebs come in,
they're like a ten from Anyone's fine, We're like, yes, yes,
but yeah, the ten from Len. Because I feel like,
here's the thing. I feel like Len was one of
the most known judges to kind of talk to the
pros as well, to get after the pros if there
(10:54):
wasn't enough content, and kind of I feel like he
was the first one to kind of start not like
like discouraging the pros, but in a way like he
would be hard on us and it was good because
we needed it and we needed to hear that. So
it's like when we got that positive feedback from him,
I feel like it was also like he was giving
us a pat on the back, which felt really really good.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
How did he balance that with you, Lindsey? Or maybe
was it hard in the beginning though, because you and
Whitney were so young. I mean, you're not even you know,
full grown, experienced adult professional dancers on stage at that point,
but you're up there getting the feedback from Len along
with everybody else.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yeah, I think it was a little bit scary. I
think too, because when Whitney and I joined the show.
I feel like it started kind of shifting from being
just strict ballroom, Like all you saw was ballroom. There
was never any other styles or anything kind of incorporated.
And because we were cross trained, we did bring a
little bit of that, like we'd do a chow job,
but maybe we'd throw a little hip hop section in there,
and you know, Len hasn't always loved that, so but
(11:49):
it was cool because here's the thing, there was such
a respect between Len and the pros, Like we knew
what he liked to see, and we knew if we
were going to go a little different that he probably
was wasn't going to be on board with it. And
I feel like he always just paid so much respect
to the pros for our work, but then at the
same time was like, this is what I like and
you know that, and if you're gonna choose not to
(12:11):
do it, then I'm going to comment on it. So
it was like this mutual respect. But I feel like
it definitely shook things up when things started shifting a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
To echo off what LZ was just saying, Lens was,
was he a bit of a father figure? He was
probably a bit of a father figure over the entire franchise,
but to you and Whitney, maybe in a very real
way because you were so young, did he have that
effect on you? Did he kind of take you under
his wing of like helping you along as you were
so young starting on this show.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
I think the guidance that Len gave from behind the
table for me personally, I mean, he can't speak for everybody,
but for me personally was such a very It was
a driving force for the way that I became as
a choreographer, as a teacher, because, like I said, I
came into the show, I had a lot of different
style experience, and I wanted to be individual, Like I
wanted to bring a new flavor, something different that everybody
hadn't seen. But the same time, I feel like Len
(13:00):
really guided me and helped me make sure I was
keeping the integrity of the show and maintaining what the
show is all about, but then also like bringing my
own flair, and I love that he encouraged but also
like kept us in line. I think that was I
think it's very important. I think it's the reason that
the show has done as well as it has because
he really helped keep the integrity of the show.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Well, you've spoken him so well. Uh, Lin's even in
just these few minutes. And I got to ask you though,
and I have to thank you because I was just
looking at your Instagram story before you came on here.
You're not like heading to the hospital in a minute,
are you, because.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
I just I mean, we hope not, but it could.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
My du date is.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Next Friday, so I'm like, we could go at any point.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Which is exciting.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
Okay, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Let's make it happen.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
You're pregnant with baby number two. And I felt back
as I messaged you, can you please come do this
tribute to Len? And then I was looking at your
Instagram stories and You're like, I'm on one cent of
your time.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
You're literally sitting here in labor technically who he's talking
to you right?
Speaker 3 (14:00):
So but it's worth it.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
It is.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
When I heard you were doing this for Lin, I'm like,
of course, like I I can't like of course, of
course he was so special to me, to everybody. I mean,
it means so much that you're doing this too, So
I'm glad I could be a part of it.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Well, before I let you go have a baby, do
you have a goodbye story before before we leave you
that just kind of encapsulates Len. Something you remember, something
that you'll always remember.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
I'll never forget this because it was one of my
worst moments on the show and also one of my best.
This was season twenty two. My partner was yan Ye Morris.
It was the semi finals, very important week. Me and
wan Yer had like a really really great dance, like
probably one of his strongest dances. We were put last
in the show, like everything was set up for us
to be like good, and we had some props in
(14:51):
this dance and I dropped my prop and wan Ye,
my partner, slipped on the prop that I dropped, okay,
and then messed up like the entire rest of the routine,
and it was my fault. And I've never cried or
lost it, but I lost it. I was just a mess.
And funny enough, that same night they did the they
haven't done this in a while, but they paired the
(15:12):
judges with a couple of couples and like had them
to a dance together, and it was me and juan
Ye Morris, and then it was Val and ginger Z.
We did a dance and Len was our judge, and
he actually danced with us, and we had to do
that shortly after I had just had this full debacle,
and I remember that I am like in tears, just
like feeling so miserable. Len walks out. He had like
(15:34):
a ruffel shirt on, and part of the dance was
we did like some shimmies with him, and we're backstage practicing,
and I just had this like surreal moment that I'll
literally never forget, looking at Len, looking at where we were,
realizing that I'm dancing with this legend, this person that
I grew up watching admiring, and now get to work alongside.
(15:55):
I'm shimmying with him on national television. Like there's literally
nothing that could get me down in that moment, and
it was so cool because I needed it and just
his energy like that was also a really cool time
for me because it went from that was I think
my first experience with Len, where it went from like
we're we have this kind of like student teacher situation
till we were working together. We quographed the dance together
(16:16):
and then taught the celebrities together, and it was just
such a special moment and I'll never forget because it
was literally one of my worst nights on Dance with
the Stars, and then he made it one of my
most memorable things that I will literally never forget.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Clearly a man that left an impression on you, as
he did millions of other people. Lindsay Arnold, thank you
so much. Danced for a decade, ten years on Dancing
with the Stars. Hard to believe, yes, and even harder
to believe that she's sitting there in labor right now.
And let me just say, God, bless you on a healthy, happy,
beautiful baby.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
That means so much to me.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Thanks for having me. We love you, Lenz. Could we
see you back on the show where I actually haven't
talked to you in a while, or are you like
busy at home with babies now?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
So I don't really know. I really like people ask
all the time, and like I've not closed the door
at all, Like I definitely have not. I've never said like,
oh I'm done forever. And when I had the conversation
with the show, it was really just like timing. It's
just gonna have to be a timing thing.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
So we'll see.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
I'm sure that two kids is going to rock my
world even more than one, so we will see how
those things.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
First.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Let's just let's take care of the baby this week out, then.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
We'll assess how things are.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
So many congrats and thank you for talking to us,
and hopefully we'll see in person soon.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Thanks Linz, guys, Thank you guys, have a good day.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Joining us.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Now.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Another professional dancer, Emma Slater, who kind of came to
the show maybe a little bit differently. She was part
of the troupe, uh, you know, the ensemble that would
dance in the show, and then out of that was
picked to be one of the professional dancers and has
gone on to have an amazing career on Dance with
the Stars. So, Imma, just first of all, the sad
(18:05):
news about lenn and what he meant to you.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
Yeah, it was so heartbreaking to me. Len is like
a grandfather and he's been in my life since I
was about twelve or thirteen. We're both from England and
I grew up in the competitive world and Len is
actually a very very very well respected judge from England.
(18:29):
He grew up he's like the legend of ballroom and
so he would judge a lot of the competitions that
I was at so overall, losing him, someone who has
been a part of my life throughout many different facets
of it, was really shocking. I was not expecting that.
I didn't know he was as sick as he was,
and I hope he wasn't in pain, but yeah, it
(18:51):
was a real shock yesterday.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Can you give a little more light on that, because
we all know Lyn over here in the States is
Dancing with the Stars and clearly he was strictly come
dancing with the BBC also though very visible, but maybe
talk about what a legend he was in dance. You've again,
he's been judging your competition since you were a little girl.
And he is the name, and he has a dance company,
(19:13):
he has a dance school in England, so his name
still carries on.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Oh yeah, it's still good.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
I mean he is as ballroom, as tight laced as
they come. He would turn up to these competitions which
were held every Sunday in England and everybody came, and
he would come and look so smart and dapper, always
in a suit. I remember I saw him in jeans
for the first time at Dancing with the Stars and
he was just backstage and he had a white t
(19:42):
shirt on and jeans, and I've never seen him outside
of a shirt or in any of the pants other
than trowser pants like soup pounds. So from me, it
was quite a shock, like I've never seen him so relaxed,
and he was talking about golf.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Actually he loved golf. But way back in England.
Speaker 6 (19:59):
When he adjudicating, he was the Lend that you saw
on screen, only you didn't get to know how you know,
playful and wise and grumpy he was because he would
just be standing there with a pen and paper and
God bless him, he always marked me really well. So
I remember my parents would take me to every competition
where they knew he was a judge because they knew, oh,
(20:21):
Lens on the panel, he'll mark her into the finals.
So we would drive like sometimes four hours every Sunday
just to go to a competition where he was and
I might, honestly, I might even have got his autograph
when I was maybe twelve or thirteen because he was
such a legend. That was just the thing to do,
is you looked up to the people that were extremely
(20:43):
respected and wise in the field, and definitely Lend was
one of them.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Emma, I feel like you have a unique story then,
because most people say he critiques so harshly. What was
that connection that you had that he would mark you?
Speaker 6 (20:56):
Well, I know, and well you know when I came
into the whole Dancing with the Stars realm and became
judged on national TV by him, he was the judge
that I absolutely generated the most I don't want to
say the word fear, but I was the most anxious
about Len's comment because he had judged me from such
(21:17):
a young age, and and so I really hung onto
his every word because he was an actual judge to me.
He wasn't just a TV judge. He used to do
that throughout my whole childhood and my whole adolescence. So
it was quite a shock to see him in this space.
It was almost like, oh, I couldn't get away from
like the actual judges of my childhood. But I actually
(21:40):
I managed to tell him that. So last season, obviously
he made this announcement or the show made the announcement
that Len was retiring. Absolute shocked to me. I was,
I'm very I'm such a sensitive person. I was balling
my eyes out. And then we went to it wasn't
a commercial break, but the set was changing, so I
(22:01):
had a few moments to go down to the judge's
table and grab his hands and say, hey, I can't
believe that you're retiring.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
You've been part of my life for so long.
Speaker 6 (22:10):
And I gave him a hug and I told him,
you know, remember when you would judge me when I
was a kid, and you were always the best to
me and so sweet. And somebody called it on camera,
and so I actually have that video last season of
me having this moment. And then I walked off and
I got all tiary and now I'm so grateful for
that and that I had those few short minutes with him,
(22:33):
because I mean, I guess time is precious, and I
just didn't know that he wouldn't be here for me
to say it to him anymore.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Good lesson, good lesson, And you talk to him.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
And when was the last time he got an a
talk to him? Emma?
Speaker 4 (22:44):
It was last season.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
It was around about maybe a week after that was
the finals, and I congratulated and told him what an
amazing legacy he has in the show, and just congratulated
him for being a part of the show and.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Told him to told him to play golf.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
He absolutely loved golf, so we would talk about that
quite a bit. Actually, I have no interest in golf whatsoever,
but I just knew that he would just talk about
it at the time and he would love it and
sort of like light up. So told him to do
all that and that I would be seeing him soon,
which course isn't going to happen, but he's always going
to be with us.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
I'm glad you have that moment.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 6 (23:25):
I really, looking back on it, it's made me think, God,
I got to take more of those moments with more people.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Well, it sounds like he was I mean I even
in covering the show, I was saying earlier he didn't
always do the press line. I think he did. He
keep a little bit of that private boundary even though
you guys still felt quite close to him.
Speaker 6 (23:45):
Yeah, even backstage, it's almost like you didn't know whether
you could go up to him because he did like
to take that line and sometimes you would. Sometimes he
would absolutely drill you on the dance floor. You'd be
standing there getting a comment. And I remember with James
(24:06):
Van der Beeek he said, tooty fruity, what a booty
and then and then afterwards you would want to go
and approach him and be like, oh, thank you for
your comments, or like that was that was such a
funny remark. Like you would always talk about tea or
prune Drew's or something quite essentially British, but you would
never know if you were able to come up to
him and talk to him, because he did like to
(24:27):
keep a separation. He loved being in his trailer, he
loved having his teas, and you know you did okay,
but sometimes he would sometimes he'd be like, love what
you did, and then you felt it, you.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Know, Well, can I ask you, I'm having known him
so long, what did you take from him about teaching? What?
What has? What did you learn from him that you've
brought into the way that you teach, the way that
you teach your partners, the way that you convey what
dances to somebody?
Speaker 6 (24:55):
I think, I mean, Lenny's a person of fundamentals and
he really knows the rule book. So whenever things would
get a little bit crazy in the dances, he would
tell you to keep it in line, and he would
keep you in check and he would be like, don't
be rolling around on the floor, don't be crazy. All
these what wafty arm movements. He was a classic man
(25:15):
who really liked the simple elements and really appreciated the
quintessential beauty of his craft. And so I knew if
I wanted to please Len, I would choreograph it very traditionally,
and I would put a lot of the recognizable steps
in that I knew he loved and that I knew
were part of the boring world. And if I wanted to, like,
you know, make him grumpy, then just don't do any
(25:38):
of that and just do.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Your own thing. But you would hear it. You would
hear about it I get from him.
Speaker 6 (25:43):
I really took the tradition is good, and I will
keep I will honor that and keep that for him.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Oh I like that. That's a good line right there.
Tradition is good, and you'll keep that.
Speaker 6 (25:52):
There's definitely going to be something that I will do
in the future that will be dedicated to him, for sure.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
And I think even taking the time. What's funny is
you're not too far from us. You're in Austin, but
you're only here briefly, so we're still doing this on zoom.
What are you doing down here? Are you meeting a cowboy.
What's going on? Can we set you up with a
nice Texas cowboy?
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Oh, a Texas cowboy would be lovely.
Speaker 6 (26:14):
I've not had the pleasure of meeting on the Texas
Cowboys so far in Austin, but I'm going to see
James van Derbeek and we were just talking about him
on the season, and actually our Fonso is going to
be here too, so we're actually having a mini reunion.
It was planned before the tragic news of Land, but
it will be actually quite nice to be amongst people
(26:34):
that can kind of celebrate and honor him.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
So I'm just here visiting my friends for a couple
of days.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Well, Emma, thank you so much for the time. Truly
appreciate it in your thoughts of Land and your perspective,
because you have a perspective nobody has, which is knowing
him virtually your entire life. So appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Thank you so much, and thank you for honoring him.
I love that you guys are great.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
It was great talking to a couple of the professional
dancers to get their perspective and their reverence of Len
and what he meant. But I wanted to talk to
a couple of the celebrities, and there are plenty that
came out of the Bachelor Bachelorette world, and one of
them joins me now from his home in Iowa. I
believe he's in Iowa right now. Chris Soles was our
bachelor and then he was, of course on Dancing with
(27:29):
the Stars. His dancing partner was Whitney Carson. I believe
it was season twenty of Dancing with the Stars. You
were on how you doing, Bud.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
I'm well, Chris, how are you doing? Great?
Speaker 7 (27:41):
Man?
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I appreciate you spending some time to talk about a
man that meant so much to everybody. And I wanted
to get a couple of celebrity perspectives on this. What
did Lynn mean to you guys as celebrity dancers? What
was his imp act?
Speaker 7 (28:02):
You know?
Speaker 8 (28:03):
The first time I met Lynn was outside a hotel
I think it's Orlando and in West Hollywood, and that
was when I just got He asked me the bachelor.
Speaker 5 (28:14):
He had no idea who.
Speaker 8 (28:15):
I was, and I knew who he was, and I
sat down next to him and I just told him
what I was going through. And I said, yeah, they
just asked me to be a bachelor, and whatever and.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
He said, well, you know what that means.
Speaker 8 (28:31):
I means you're probably gonna be in I'm Dancing with
the Stars like no now a chance in hell. And uh, yeah,
that was that was my first time meeting Lynn. And
then you know his impact on me. It was incredible
just to have a ton of respect for him. And
(28:52):
he brought a presence to that show that was you know,
brought a legitimacy to that show, which was remarkable, and
and uh and uh, just just a brilliant guy.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Obviously, the professional dancers talked about the reverence they had
and trying to get a good score and a good
word from Lend. But you're saying that the celebrities felt
that as well, even though that wasn't your world.
Speaker 8 (29:18):
I think everyone respected that. I mean, when you go
into that world, you ark shut. He wanted to be
professional and and I don't know, I guess that's where
my heart was.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
And and and you.
Speaker 8 (29:28):
Couldn't you couldn't really argue with his his presence and
his background. He was the real deal, you know, and
and there was he wasn't in it to say say
things that were anything but the truth.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And when he seemed to, he seemed to appreciate. Uh,
and I remember you you you know, you and I
talked about this, if you're going to do it. He
appreciated when celebrities put their heart and soul into it
and actually went for it. He knew you weren't professional,
he knew you guys weren't great, but he really seemed
to appreciate your effort and your love of dance and
(30:06):
your love of all of that was dancing with the stars.
That seemed to be what resonated with me towards the
celebrities and and you in particular, because you did. You
were kind of the country guy. It's like, oh, he's
not really going to do this, but you did, like
you really sold out for that and you went for
it with all your heart as you typically do with
everything you do. Was that something that you felt from Lend.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
Yeah, I know hund percent.
Speaker 8 (30:32):
I respect any person in any profession that that really,
as you know, has their heart in it, and he
had his heart in that profession. There was no question,
as do I with you know, whether it's farming or
what our experience together on the show on the batch,
are you're there, enter or you're out? Not those kind
(30:55):
of things resonate. You know, when you see somebody that
you just can't deny, that doesn't matter what you say.
Speaker 5 (31:01):
Words are words are just options. When you when you
see somebody.
Speaker 8 (31:06):
That has you just know, you just know, no, no
fool fool bullshit, you just know. And that was Len
and he was a good man. You just could tell.
And it's a loss to see him go.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah, well, hey, Bud, I appreciate it. It's good to
see you again. And uh, I appreciate you pulling off
on the side of the road to share a few
words and thoughts and memories of uh Lynn goodman. I
appreciate it. And uh, you're good in life. Life treating
you well.
Speaker 8 (31:36):
In Iowa, we are planting corn and uh just doing
God's work over here and one day at a time.
Speaker 5 (31:45):
Man, Yeah, doing well. How are you?
Speaker 1 (31:48):
I'm doing wonderful.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Family is good, everybody's healthy and and uh that's that's
all right. And uh so I appreciate it. Was it
was good to see you at Well's wedding and I
miss seeing you and hopefully our pasti across again soon.
Speaker 8 (32:02):
Likewise, like thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Good to see you, man, Hi brother, take care. He
was our Bachelor, and then he appeared on season ten
of Dancing with the Stars joining me. Now, Jake, Pavelka, Jake,
it has been a while, my friend, How are you
doing it?
Speaker 7 (32:19):
Sure? Has Chris doing really well? I missed you.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
How's everything going really good?
Speaker 1 (32:24):
I'm sorry, we're uh, you know, reconvening under these circumstances.
But I wanted to get, you know, your perspective on
a guy that we all loved and adored, Lynn Goodman,
who passed away, and hearing the perspective of the celebrities,
I think is interesting because he was so revered as
this godfather and this you know, huge, huge all star
(32:49):
of dancing. So the professionals loved and adored him and
admired him. But I'm wondering, what did you think of
Lynn when you met him or heard of him as
a judge on Dancing?
Speaker 7 (32:59):
Well, you know my takeaway from dancing as far as
you know, it's been been many, many years, but he
you know, Bruno Tagnoli is really funny carry in and
Abba is just a huge character with a huge personality,
brings a lot of the show. Lynn. Lynn was the
you know, the the cutting edge professional and he cared
(33:20):
about everybody. Uh, you know, he genuinely, no matter what
your skill level, gave you advice at your current level
to because he wanted to see you succeed. And I
think he was always disappointed, you know, when when somebody
just wasn't quite going to get it, or when somebody
had a breakthrough, and that's you know, that's that's the
(33:41):
most memorable takeaway. Something funny though, when when we were
shooting the show in twenty ten, they keep everybody at
the you know, at the same apartment complex there in
Los Angeles, real close to maybe s Television City. And
I don't know how old Linn was at the time,
(34:02):
but yeah, he wore a bright speedo by the pool.
You'd see him down there frequently getting some son.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
A side of Lynn you didn't necessarily need to see
or or want to.
Speaker 7 (34:18):
But you know what, that's okay because he was just
as happy as a lark by the pool, didn't care
what anybody thought. Such a great guy. I'm so sad
to learn that he's passed away.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah, you know, I think everybody's sentiment is the same
of you know, one of the dancers we talked to
earlier just kind of summed it up as he was
the heart of the show, kind of this father's figure
and earning his respect, earning his words meant a lot
to you.
Speaker 7 (34:45):
Guys, It really did, because Lynn was you know, I mean,
most of the people that are on Dancing with the Stars,
including the professionals, you know, they're they're entertainers. Lynn Lynn
is a dancer and a teacher, instructor, a very effective instructor,
because you know, one of the big things on that show.
One of the things that I kind of struggled with
(35:06):
a little bit is just because you were a crazy
dancer and just do some incredible things with your body
on a dance floor does not mean that you can
explain that to somebody. You know, how to do what
you're doing and when, and Lynn just had that muscle
that he could flex in that he could he could
see what you're doing, you see what you're doing wrong,
(35:28):
and give you very technical details in a very short
amount of time while you're standing there, and not make
you feel judged. You know you were being judged, but
he just had a very delicate way of putting it.
And that's so appreciated because everybody on there, most people
can't dance right unless you're Nicole Scherzinger. But most people
go on there that can't dance and got two lefts
(35:48):
to trying to learn it. They're doing it in front
of America, and it can be it's nerve wracking, and
he just really understood that.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, I think it goes back to he was a
very well renowned a judic cater over in Europe and England,
and so he was used to dealing with kids and
talking to people that are just learning and so uh
he he it's good to hear he had this way
about him and just an amazing man, and it's it's
good to hear the perspective of people that were going
(36:17):
through the process of what what he meant to, even
the celebrities on the show. It's very cool.
Speaker 7 (36:24):
Yes, yeah, absolutely that that's very very well well uh
well stated.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Before I let you go, just your your lasting impression
of Len what you will remember about him forever, you
know what.
Speaker 7 (36:40):
Uh So they didn't capture this on camera, but Chelsea
Iwer my partner and I and it was it was
towards the semifinals. I mean he was episode six or
seven out of the ten. We had a wardrobe malfunction
and nobody saw it except Lynn, And then afterwards he said, Chris,
(37:02):
what happened was, uh, it was a It was a
move where I was, you know, on my knees and
I was spinning Chelsea real fast twice and she moves her,
you know, spins around twice in my arms, and somehow
my hand got mixed up with her wardrobe and went
right into the front of her fold, and I got it.
(37:25):
Bless her heart, you know, it is what it is.
Nobody saw it. America didn't say anything when it aired.
She Chelsea and I thought we were the only two
that actually knew that that happened. Lynn came up after
the show and said, what did you think about that?
He said, I saw what exactly what happened. You guys
(37:45):
gonna start dating right.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
That's a great guy, a great guy, and I appreciate
you taking the time to share your perspective. It's been
a while and hopefully we won't wait so long before
we catch up again.
Speaker 7 (38:00):
My friend, Yes, sir, I'd love that, all.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Right, Jake Pavelka appreciate.
Speaker 7 (38:04):
It, you bet, Take care, Chris, thank you, My.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Thanks to the professional dancers. Lindsay Arnold Imma Slater and
celebrity dancers Chris Sols Jake Pavelka for their perspective and
their words for Lynn Goodman, who we lost this week.
We remember him through their words as this adjudicator, this judge,
(38:32):
this celebrity, and he was a celebrity in the world
of dance and was huge and the BBC was huge
on ABC with Dancing with the Stars and did an
amazing job and touched millions and millions of lives, as
Lendsay Arnold said, shaped her life and Emma Slater from
the age of twelve shaped her life. But I think
(38:54):
if he were here, he would agree that the greatest
job he ever held was that of husband, father and grandfather.
And I said this earlier, but to repeat it because
it is such a Lynn Goodman thing to say. The
obituary that he had written for himself was he was
(39:19):
a dance teacher from Dartford who got lucky. Because that's
just about the truth of it. Well, Len, with all
due respect, I know those are your words, but you
were so much more than that. You made such a
bigger impact than that. And people often say at a
funeral and at times like this, what is legacy legacy
(39:42):
is that lasting impression the lives you change when you
were long gone, and that Lynn Goodman was not luck.
That was all you. So thank you for a life
well lived and for all that you gave us for
this many years. And I appreciate you the listener indulging
(40:04):
Lauren and I for doing this special episode today for
Lynn Goodman. Truly appreciate it. And we will talk to
you next time because we have a lot more to
talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at
the most dramatic pod ever and make sure to write
us a review and leave us five stars. I'll talk
to you next time.
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