Two Jersey Js: Real Friends or Reality Fakes?

Are the friendships on RHONJ real?  Were Jackie and Jen being authentically themselves while the cameras were rolling? 

Plus, would they be friends without being cast together on the show? 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, everyone, It's Jackie Goldschneider and Jen Fessler and we
are two Jersey Jays.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hi, guys, I feel like it's been a while, right.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
I know, I feel like we were recording so much
and then we had a nice long break.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
How was that passover? Oh? Thank you for asking. Passover
was great. We spent it because you know this, we
got a house at the beach, down at the shore,
but a little further than what we know from, like
let's say the show about the Shore, so closer to Philly.
So we got this house and it's been quite a
feat and to furnish it and get it ready for

(00:36):
the summer. But the four of us went and had
passed over there and it was actually really nice. Oh
that's so nice. What about yours? We were away, We
were away from most of it. I want to hear
about your natum.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
It was amazing. I mean, Barcelona and Madrid are both beautiful.
I had never been, and the food was fantastic and
I ate so much. I was proud of myself because
sometimes hard for.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Me, but it was really great.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
But as much as I loved it, last year we
went to Rome and I just felt like nothing can
come close to Rome.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Italy is always going to be my number one.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah, But we came home enough time to get the
kids went back to school today and we came home
with enough time to let them.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Like on jet lag, but.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
The other like two nights ago, I woke up in
the middle of the night to.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Go to the bathroom.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
And I wear an eyemask, right, so I pulled it
up a little bit, and I'm walking to the bathroom
and you know those monster flies, like those big black
ones that bounce like crazy on the walls. There was
one in my room and it buzzed in my ear
and I turned my head as I was walking.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
To You're gonna freak me out. You're gonna freak me
gonna be like a horror film.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Oh, and I slammed my face into the box that
holds that has our like alarm keypad. And then I
got so I al conopulated that I fell backwards into
my laundry basket.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
It was like the worst than I was still jet lagged, Jackie.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
I thought you were going to say that the fly
went into your ear canal and I no, no, I
was not.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
I was gonna have to check out a.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Big fat lip and like, oh i'd even notice. Let
me say, well, the MIC's in front of it and it's.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Getting bad act. See. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
But anyway, so other than that, though, the trip was
great and uh, I'm glad to be home. I'm not
one of those people who likes to travel for like
two weeks.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
At a time.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
I like to get home after like five days. I'm like,
this is great, but like I'm ready for my bed
and I get.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Depressed, well by boundry machine. Really, I don't like to go.
I don't know, I get a little every time vacation ends.
Oh no, not me. I like coming home. I like
coming home, but I definitely and I've there are times
where I've like, okay, we've had enough. Like no Vietnam,
I was depressed, but like anytime sounded like such a
spectacular trip it was. It really was. I don't know.

(03:06):
But yeah, and then you said you had well because
I told you my back went out yesterday, so.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Oh yeah, I had a I don't know, I never
have back problems. Like three weeks ago, my back started
hurting and then it was so bad.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
I was like an old lady.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
We were going on these tours and the kids stopping
and like stretching my worst feeling.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
I know, how's your back. It's okay, it's okay. I
have to get on the plane tomorrow. So I'm telling
myself it's okay.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, you're going to a concert.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
I'm going on but yes, so exciting. I wish that
you were coming. It is going to be a lot
of fun. I think Country Music Festival in Napa with
iHeart time. You love country music. You're a texted girl.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
I know, knew nothing about Well now I feel like
country is coming into the pop world.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
So I know, like Morgan Wallen, I know, like.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
The people who have gone like pop, but and I
love it, but I know nothing really about country music.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
That he used to be a bigger country music fan,
but then my family started to love it. Was specifically
Jeff and he when he loves something, it's all of
that all the time. It's every really good until I
get burnt out and I'm like, oh, that's funny.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
When I was a kid growing up in Staten Island,
my dad, I guess it was sort of his midlife crisis,
became a cowboy and so we were like just this
Jewish family.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Living in same what.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
It lasted a few years that was it and everyone
called him Buffalo Berry and we were just this Jewish
family living in the middle of Staten Island. And my
dad wore like full cowboy gear. That is so hilarious.
For a while, for a few years.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
My dad did that becoming a biker. Oh really did
it last? No?

Speaker 1 (04:51):
But anyway, all he would play was country music and
like his long paddlelac that smelled like smoke. And it
was just country music all the time until it was
but my only exposure to country music.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
See, you'll have a blast.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
And then I'm hot on your heels going to Wango Tangoa.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
And just now it's like I'm a little jealous. There's
gonna be some bigs there. I can't no, no, no, no,
it's Mother's Day.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
What you said, right, I know I'm going to go
with alexis good time.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Anyway, I am really really excited for this topic today
because you don't have to be a white Lotus fan
to really engage in this. But the topic is authenticity,
like being authenticity and like your friendships, your relationships with
the show, with everything. But we also are going to

(05:43):
dive in a little bit to the speech that Carrie
Coon gave during the White Lotus season finale that really.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
It really uh talks about.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
Her view on the relationships with the other two women
she was with, and but how she saw herself and.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
What the friendships meant to her.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
And I think it's to take that line by line
and really dissect that and see how it translates to
our own lives.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
So authenticity, I feel like it's just a buzzword, right,
Are you being authentic? She's not authentic, he's authentic, She's
not authentic. It's like it's one of those words that
now is starting to annoy me a little bit. But
you know, I guess like gaslighting. A little like gaslighting,
I give just tided, But what are people saying it is?

Speaker 1 (06:31):
Now? Wait, there's another word, weaponizing. People are saying that's yes.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Oh my god, there's so much weaponizing. Yeah, oh yeah,
all of those. So but listen, I know what it means.
I know what it means when I'm not authentic and
when I am being authentic. And we're talking right now
about how it changes as we get older. So authenticity
as we get older, Well, I mean I was a

(06:56):
people pleaser my whole life. I think it has to
do with probably my relationship with my father and not
just my father. But and I think you can. It's
hard to be authentic if you're a people pleaser. And
I am much less of a people pleaser than I
used to be, I think to a fault, Like I

(07:20):
have this one story that I tell so that it
really just just stuck with me. I had a friend
who we had plans to go out for a drink
and another friend gotten al and said, Okay, well I'm
going out with this fourth person. Let's just all do
it together. We'll all go out. The fourth person was

(07:41):
someone I was friendly with but not close friends with
at that time, and I said in this text chain.
I said, no, the person wasn't on the chain. And
my friend said, what do you mean no? I said,
I don't want to do that, and so she was like, well,
what do you mean why not? I said, because I

(08:01):
don't want to. I don't want to be I don't
want to be around anyone tonight that I'm not whatever
she's like, but we're all going out, you know her,
we're friends. And I said, so, do you want me
to lie and to make up a reason to tell
you no? The reason I don't want to is simply
because I don't want to, and I just remember owning
that Like that moment for me probably sounds a little silly,

(08:22):
but was so huge, Like I don't need to make
up an excuse. I don't want to go out with
someone that I'm not very good friends with tonight. I
don't feel like shooting. I don't want to hear about
their kids. I don't want to have to, you know,
ask about the things. I'm tired. My time is limited.
But I for some reason, it felt very authentic to me,
and it feels to me I wish that I could

(08:43):
operate like that all the time. And it wasn't being mean.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
I think that as you get oh, I certainly as
I've gotten older, the biggest power that I've I've sensed
like the biggest change is being able to say no.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
No.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
It is not feel or not feeling says bad, you know,
because I always felt bad. I was a yes person
for so long, and I have no problem saying no now.
And I have the wisdom to know. I mean, I'm
almost fifty, and I have this feeling that has only
come in the past few years that if I am

(09:18):
being myself and someone doesn't like it.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
They're not for me, they are not my person a.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, and I do since sometimes I stop now and
take stock of how I'm actually feeling, and I know
who makes me feel good and who doesn't. And I
really enjoy being around the people who make me feel good.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
And I say yes to that a lot, but I
say no to a lot of things now. I don't
feel like I feel like life is really short. And
I've seen.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
Many people that I know not doing well, like in
you know, getting sick or really they're just things happening.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah you. I have four friends right now who were
recently diagnostic cancer.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
Yeah, And I kind of don't want to waste the time,
you know, waste time doing things that don't make me
happy anymore. And I think that I'm really lucky because I,
for a long time, like you, I was a people
pleaser and I had a really hard time saying no.
I didn't want people to be disappointed in me. I
was always worried about what people thought of me, and
just really getting rid of all of that as I

(10:25):
get older. And it's not just a function of age,
I think that's a function also a therapy, but I
think being able to say no to things has opened
my life up a lot.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, I agree, therapy has definitely helped me. And I'm
not always I'm not perfect at it. I still find
myself getting caught up in people pleasing and saying what
I think that people want to hear. But I'm way
more aware of it. I do it way less than
I used to, and I'm always like my therapist always
says to me, like I'm already ahead the game because

(10:56):
I can see it, so I can see that I'm
actually doing it. You know, Yes, agree, And I think.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
You know, people ask a lot about the show is
it real, or the friendship's real or all of that real?

Speaker 2 (11:11):
And I have a few opinions on that.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
I mean, first of all, on the show, it's very
hard to be completely real because and I'm not just
saying me, I'm saying in general. First of all, you
have to say things that you wouldn't normally say in
real life. Right Like, if you dislike somebody and you
walk into a room with them, my baseline would be
to just not pay attention to them. But on a

(11:35):
show where you're getting paid to give your opinion, you
cannot do that. You can't just like close up, so
you're saying things that you probably wouldn't say ordinarily in
real life, even though you do feel them right. You're
confronting people that you would probably just ignore. And I

(11:57):
also think that there's this like this constant like knowledge
that the audience is going to judge you, and nobody
wants to be punched in the face for the next
like three months, So you're not going to say even
if you think something, you're not going to say the
things that are going to get you absolutely destroyed online
unless you've had too much to drink properly.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Right well, but that you know, it's so funny because
I think that's part of what made the very beginning
of Housewife specifically like for me at least like New
York I didn't watch this Orange County as much at
the very beginning, but they had no knowledge of what
could happen or would happen, or you know, the social

(12:40):
media of it all, so there was they had no
way to prepare themselves. And as talking about authenticity, I
feel like they were so authentic and it's very hard
to do it now because you see what can happen
right like back in the day of the Housewives franchises,

(13:02):
it was a you know, there was a clean no
one knew what anything could turn into. So yeah, definitely
more sort of self awareness, which I guess is sometimes
translated into not being as authentic, right right, Yeah, I mean,
but it is hard.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
It is hard to be completely totally authentic on the shows.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
But I did. I always tried my hardest. I've got
to say that those are the words I really tried.
And I think that people ask me all the tomic
would you do differently? I did the best I could
and with what I had in every single moment, and
I tried to be as honest as I could be.
I think that I fee feel differently about situations now

(13:47):
than I did when I was on the show. Maybe
I would react differently now, but I can't say I
have regrets per se because I was in the moment.
No me, neither me neither not at all. I thing
I was trying my best.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
I did have a season where I cried a lot,
and I think maybe I would try to be a
little stronger that season. But but that's authentic as you can, Yes,
I know, but also like it's a show, like it's
not that deep you know. So okay, so let's talk
about making new friends at this sage.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Do you enjoy making new friends or do you? Are
you so? In all honesty, Jack, I've been I've always
there are certain things that like we all are born
with gifted and I don't you know. I talk about
this again a lot in therapy. I connect with people
very easily and always have from when I was a
little kid. So I tend to make friends and I'm

(14:47):
not This is not in a braggy way, because everyone
has stuff right that they're just born with. I have
for some reason, I can just connect with people. It's
you know, I have a million bad things about me,
good things about me, whatever. But as I'm getting older,
I want to less and less. Like I'm not as
interested in making new friends as I used to be.

(15:08):
So I'm know if that's a good thing or bad thing,
it's just what it is. I don't really feel like
bringing new people as much into my world unless I
really connect with someone and you know, I have some
crazy kind of chemistry with someone. Friendship work, you know,
and I don't know, I feel like I have a
lot of friends now and I'm not as eager to

(15:31):
you know, connect like I used.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
To be, are you. I enjoy making new friends, but
only if I really feel that connection, then I'll pursue it.
If not, I get lazy with it because I have
my people. I have my girls here in my town.
I have my college friends, and I have like my
like you know you, I have like other friends like

(15:56):
that are like single friends, you know, like, But I
I don't know. I like making friends. But I have
this one friend and she has a million friends, right,
and she is invited to like every single thing. She's
friends with, every single person I know, every party you
go to, she's there. And I was talking to her,

(16:16):
and she said, I really.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
Just like people. Because I said, how do you keep
up with all of these things?

Speaker 1 (16:22):
She said, I really enjoy people, like I love hearing
people's stories and seeing people's lives and knowing people's like adventures,
and like, I just thought to myself, that's such an
interesting way. I don't think she gets in so deep
with anybody, but she just loves like she has her
close friends, but she just loves being around people. Think,

(16:46):
I think, to each their own, but like to Evan,
I love people anymore, I guess I used to.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
I know I connect with people easily. I'm also I
love being alone. I love like I love my alone time.
I don't know. Do you feel like you love people
so much? I love the people I love. I don't.
I don't love you, know what. It's funny. I do
like people. I do.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
I'm one of those people who I like you until
you give me reason not to like you. And Evan
is the opposite. He doesn't like anybody until they give
him reasons to like him, and then he loves them.
But he, like my baseline is to start off really
liking you. And I am easy to get along with.
And I'm an easy forgiver too, unless I've been burned,
like a few times, then I won't.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
But I think I am at least an easy forgiver.
It's not a good thing or a bad thing. You think?
Is that a good thing? I think it's a good
thing probably. And I'm also an easy apologizer, like I
don't have a hard time saying I'm sorry me neither me,
neither you and I would we be friends if it
wasn't for the show. I think, in all honesty we

(17:54):
would probably be. This is gonna be a weird thing
to say, even better friends. I one hundred percent agree
with that.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
I do because I think that there's well, first of all,
you're friends with people who don't like me, which means
that we can't always go to things together. But also
and I'm friends with people that don't like me, No,
they like you. Actually, well we can discuss that all.
That's a whole other yes, but I think that also,

(18:27):
like it's weird, like if the show came back and
one of us was back and one of us wasn't,
I don't see how that wouldn't make things awkward.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
Right, Yeah, I guess. I mean I'm more like this show. Yes, yes,
for being on it, of course, that's yes, But I
sort of mean more like because with the show and
just what it is, right, it is about conflict resolution
and and we're together all the time in this very

(18:59):
in this micro cause, in the arena. But without that,
you know, what would we ever we met in Upper
Cell River or Tenafly and let's say I was a
little younger or you were a little older, kids the
same age. I mean, how would we not get along? Right?

Speaker 1 (19:15):
Like, we're basically very similar. And I think that's what
Drew us to each other from the beginning.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
I mean, just a lot of a lot in common
and not you know, a lot maybe because we're Jewish
and we have kids while mine are older again, but
we run in similar circles and so and then you
would take away that piece of it that was hard
to navigate, which is a lot of times has to
do with.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
The show, right, Yeah, for sure, And the show is
not going to last forever. So I think that's a
really exciting thing for us, right Like when the show
is completely over for both of us, I think that
maybe we could explore like a new part of listen.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
We also have this together, so we're bonded through this.
And I'm not trying to say that, you know, we're
not good friends, but the show makes things complicated, and sometimes,
you know, it becomes for all of us. I don't
think anyone gets away without feeling that kind of tension
that comes with the show. And there's a lot of
competition and there's a lot of yes.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
And I will tell you this, I have circled through
friends on this show, and no matter who I was
friends with at any given time, everyone was bad mouthing everyone.
And I will just say that so I'm not sure
how authentic friendships are, and it's the reason why I
didn't watch Beverly Hills this season. But it's the reason
why someone like Garcela leaves and unfollows everyone on the cast.

(20:38):
It's because the friendships aren't They're built on a shared experience,
and once that experience is gone, I think a piece
of the friendship disintegrates. Even if you didn't watch White Lotus,

(21:02):
you didn't need to in order to really get involved
in this part of it. To stay with us, we're
going to read you this speech by Carrie Kuhon.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
So just a preface.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
Three women in the White Lotus cast were on a
girl's trip together.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
They were childhood friends.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
One of the women, she's a beautiful actress married to
a younger man. Another woman is played by Leslie Bibb,
and she's sort of like has it all together, fancy
Texas woman an auscar out I don't remember, like a Republican,

(21:46):
very polished. And then the third is played by Carrie Kuhn,
who is a brilliant actress, and she is sort of
like the narchorus of the group, right, like, she does
not have her shit together.

Speaker 2 (22:03):
She's more she's single, she's.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
Got a like kind of wild teenager, and they had
a really interesting week in Thailand where they were often
bad mouthing each other when one wasn't in the room.
And we're supposed to believe that they were the best
of friends from childhood, but you often were questioning how

(22:28):
close this group of women were and whether they really
liked each other, Right.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
Scary Jack is that was my favorite part of this
of this season, their friend group, their friendship, which is
kind of funny because is probably because I relate to it,
you know, on some level, like maybe specifically with housewives,
but you know that whole sort of it was not
so much of their friendship was not authentic. I mean this,

(22:53):
this speech at the end that Carry Coons gives I
do believe was of course, So we'll get to.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
That, right, Well, well I'm gonna read it, okay, and
then we could break it down.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
So this is right after the Beautiful Actress.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
One says she's been on cloud nine all week. So
Carrie Kuhn says, that's funny because if I'm being honest,
all week, I've been so sad. I just feel like
my expectations were too high. Or I just feel like
as you get older, you have to justify your life.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
You know, and your choices.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
And when I'm with you, guys, it's just so like
transparent what my choices were and my mistakes. I have
no belief system, and I mean I've had a lot
of them, but I mean work was my religion forever,
but I definitely lost my belief there and then I
tried love and that was just a painful. Religion just
made everything worse. And then even for me, just like

(23:48):
being a mother, that didn't save me either. But I
had this epiphany today, I don't need religion or God
to give my life meaning, because time gives a meaning.
We started this life together. I mean, we're going through
it apart, but we're still together. And I look at you, guys,
and it feels meaningful and I can't explain it. But
even when we're just sitting around the pool talking about
whatever in nine, it still feels very deep. I'm glad

(24:12):
you have a beautiful face, and I'm glad that you
have a beautiful life, and I'm just happy to be
at the table. I love you, so I happen even
just prot for by the way, well done, so there's
that maybe should get into script and television.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
And also I didn't I gots to we knew out
of it when you just read it. It reminds me
so much of my high school friends because there are
four of us. We get together once a year. My
friend has a house on the Chesapeake in Maryland, and
it's this great house and every year we've been doing
it for so many years now, and it feels just

(24:48):
like what you said. And sometimes, if I'm being honest,
it does feel like like you're comparing your life and
trying to justify your life. Because I go back with
these women since freshman year of high school, and so
you see their lives and and it's now we have

(25:10):
pure love for each other. I'm very lucky with these
three women. There's not jealousy, and there's not it's not
like what these three were doing. We don't talk about
each other room, but there's something about like having known
each other all of these years and like my choice
has become very real, Like I live this way, Jill

(25:34):
lives this way, Kelly lives this way, Allison lives this way,
and maybe I should have lived more like Alison lives
or you know, like I mean, there's just a lot
that comes right, that gets right in my face when
the four of us are together. I agree with that.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
I have that with my college friends, and we have
a very different lives, and again we don't talk about
each other. I wouldn't have a bad word to say
about any of them if they left the room.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
But I agree that I look at their lives.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
And sometimes I'm like, am I spending enough time with
my kids?

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Am I?

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Like?

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Should I be living healthier life? I question a lot
of my health choices me too, I do that.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
One thing that got me from the start was Jacqueline
saying she had been on cloud nine all week, and
I felt like it started off very inauthentic because if
you watch the show, you saw that she couldn't reach
her husband. She's married to a younger man married no,
I think it was her husband. Yeah, And then she

(26:40):
spoiler alert she cheated on him with Valentine, right, And
I just felt like, if you're doing that, and you
and you're so she seemed very hungry to be recognized
and very just like I felt like she fearly was

(27:07):
not happy, Like maybe she loved being famous and beautiful,
but there was definitely a missing piece. And I think
to say that you were on cloud nine all week
when you were unable to reach your husband, wondering what
he was doing, and then cheating on him, I think.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
That's and then having it having to actually be confronted
about cheating by your other two friends.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Like that didn't go well, and bad mouthing your friends.
I don't think that's a happy person. I just don't.
I don't see how you could say that you've been
on cloud nine all week. I feel like this there
was a lot of pretending to be happy. And I
think a lot of women pretend to be happy because
if you don't keep that happy face on, a lot
of sadness can come in. You know, it's hard being

(27:52):
our age. We might not talk our age me Jackie Goldschneider.
Our age means middle aged. It's that the indivisible woman
thing that we talked about last year. You know, at
this age, you're you're really kind of like neither here
nor there. Your children leave, everyone seems younger. I remember
getting to my town, moving to my town, and I

(28:13):
was like, ah, like I'm the young new blood, and
like I'm young, and like so many people, you're old
and now like I'm old and so many people here
are young.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
Oh, it's so weird. Women are all my friends are
leaving now. They're all downside moving to Florida right move
in to Arizona. People are just moving. Man.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
It's like it's it's it's crazy, Like I don't feel
old personally, but I'm older, you know. And I think
that if you don't keep a happy face on sometimes
and keep a facade on sometimes, that you can get
kind of depressed. So I understand it. But at the
same time, I don't think. I don't think that Jacqueline's

(28:54):
character was being authentic.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
I don't either, But I also I don't I don't
keep a happy face on all the time. No, no, no,
I don't either. I'm just saying for a lot of
what No, I know, I'm not even saying you me,
but like like that whole thing, like I don't know,
I'm not good, like when I'm unhappy, like everyone has
to know about it. I mean not really not me,
Like I'll like if you ask me, how are you,
and I'm not okay, I'm not okay. I don't really

(29:19):
and maybe that's partially I mean, I guess I'm authentic
in that in that way, and everything in my life
is not perfect and it is not weird, like I don'tant.
I have a lot of blessings, but I also have
a lot to deal with all the time, like we
all do.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
You know, Yeah, how did you feel about?

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (29:43):
So I read a lot of I tend to deep
dive when I'm really interested in something, So I deep
dived White.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Lotus a lot.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
But specifically this speech, you know, Carrie Coon kind of
indicates that friendships are what give her life meaning, right,
And I saw a lot of different opinions on whether
friendship is enough, and I think for some people it

(30:14):
could be right, but for me that would not be enough,
you mean in terms of what I don't get it? So, okay,
So for ex, like if you didn't have a husband
and children you mean, yeah, So I don't think that
friendships can replace everything else. I mean that's just me personally.

(30:38):
I think that friendships are amazing, but I don't know
many people who would. I certainly wouldn't die for my friends, right,
but I would from my family. And I don't know
that the friendships are deep enough two be what gives

(31:00):
your life meaning. It will be amazing, but not for
me personally. They wouldn't be enough now that I know otherwise,
they wouldn't be enough to give my life.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Meaning, I just thought of So, my sister has a
best friend, and when I say a best friend, I
mean like a best friend on the phone with each other,
anything that happens. All of us know her, her kid,
my sister's kids, she is, she's family. I mean they
are as close as I am to Robin, like I

(31:30):
that's how close her friend is to her. And they
probably share a lot more than even my sister and
I do. I mean, it has it is different because
we have a mother and father that we share and
you know, it's whatever. But my point is that recently
my sister's friend got diagnosed with cancer and my which

(31:52):
I don't want to even get into because whatever, I'm
not saying her name, but it doesn't matter. But anyway,
I just kept thinking like this person too, so so
first I thought of her, but then also I thought
of my sister because she is a part of my
sister's life and as important to her, I feel like
as anybody can be, and she is. It's hard to

(32:17):
picture one of them without the other. And I mean that, like,
I don't know that. I have a lot of very
close friendships, but in this case, I feel like they're
just like that. It's like, you have a husband, you
have kids, and you have for my sister, she has
this best friend. I think it is possible to have
friends that are that close. This friend of hers is

(32:37):
not married, doesn't have kids, but everything is just Robin
and her kids. So I don't know, just maybe think
of that, And I don't know, I really.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Because I it comes back to the well, who would
you lay your life down for and who would do
it for you? And I don't think that there's people
outside of my family.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Well later that's a hard one. I mean kids, because
that's just well.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
But also like who would you trust completely one hundred
percent trust? Right? I love my friends and I've had
the same best friend since I'm eighteen. She was my
maid of honor, I was hers and we're still best friends.
And I don't think that there's anyone in the world
that I would one hundred percent trust aside from.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
My family, like my my trust do you mean tell
people things?

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Just like if it came down to not even like
tell people, Yeah, my deepest darkest secret.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
Maybe that I don't know that I would one.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
Hundred percent trust that anyone who's not my immediate family would.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Would hold that sacred. You know, and I do have
very strong friendships. I'm just being honest. I don't we
do here. Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Think that there's I don't think that friendships run as
deep and they can be beautiful, and they can, and
I have amazing friendships, but I don't think they run
as deep as family.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
I just don't. And I know that a lot of
people would spew that, but I just don't nothing. I mean,
that's been your experience. So yeah, And I love my friendships.
I just maybe I just don't.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
Look I don't need them to be that for me
because I have a big family.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Do you say I love you to your friends and
do you always mean it? I don't know. Do I
always mean it? Is I love you a lot? I
always say I love you. It's not the same I
love you. I guess I love you? Is are different
for different telling my mother I love her or my kids?
Or is it the same? I don't know. It comes
very naturally to me to say I love you, so
I don't It's a great question. I have to think

(34:55):
about it. I mean, I don't think I don't mean it.
Maybe I don't know. I had out love you say
it too easily. I don't know easily. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Like if I'm leaving dinner with like six women and
three of them are close and three are not, I'll
say love you to everyone. I do so A lot
of times I don't mean it.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
What is love you mean? Like, for a friend, love
you means I don't know, that means I'll die.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
I do love my friends, Yeah, but I don't love
my acquaintances and I hands it out.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Yeah yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
But I think in this instance, and I heard that
the I love yous were not part of the speech
that Mike White wrote that they all kind of impurpose.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
You know that the way they said those I love
yous were very different than like a casual I love
you like. They looked each other in the eye after
that speech, and they weren't saying it in like a
cute way. They were really saying it. Did you notice
that it was cool? I did, And I think it
served an important purpose.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
I think it sort of brought them all back to
the same place of we have shit and we know,
we have shit, and like we're not perfect friends and
we don't have perfect lives, but at the end of
it all, we're there for each other.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Because they really they were saying, like the real me
sees the real you like who I am, all of
my shit, regardless of her beautiful face or her beautiful
life or her like you know, past all that, Like
there's actual real love there.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah. I didn't feel bad for Carrie Coon's character though.
I kind of felt like she was a free bird.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
She was a little bit she also at times they
all were, I mean, have it is that one would
leave the room and the other twoul talk, and then
the other lead the room and the other two would talk.
I mean, it was definitely Carrie. She wasn't like, you know,
she loved shooting like some shade. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Those were not friendships though that I I feel drawn to.
I don't like the thought of a friend talking about
me when I leave the room, and I try really
hard not to talk about friends behind their back. I
go back and forth with how I feel about Sometimes
I really like it, and then I feel bad because
I feel like it it's a little toxic.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
It is definitely toxic, and I definitely also like it.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
Yeah, well I think I've heard that gossip is a
very like natural human way to make like the world
makes sense to you.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
It makes us feel better. Yeah, but I'm trying.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
And you know, another thing that came up when I
was deep diving all of this is something called the
modern woman's dilemma.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
So there was a USA Today article about.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
How talking about Carrie Coon's speech and sort of how
women have achieved so much and we are still like
we are the most unhappy that we've been.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
Some of the.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Research was saying that women in the US do better
than ever before, And there was a Pew Research Center
pole that said last year women earned an average of
eighty five percent.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
It was up four percentage points from twenty to twenty three.
We earn eighty five percent of what men earn.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
We have more college degrees than men, and single women
own more homes than single men, and just women are
just doing so great and they are so unhappy. They're
calling it the female happiness paradox. We have much more anxiety, depression, sadness, loneliness, anger,
mental health.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
I mean it's same as kids. Kids have all these
things now that we didn't have right, all.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
Yeah, well, the kids, I think is social media, but
also I think there's also yes, but it's yes, definitely
it's technology in general though, you know, And it's like
even if it's video games, it's still the kids have
more materialistically, well not all kids, I guess, and kids
are now you know, anxiety among adolescents is an epidemic.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
But anyway, we're talking about women our age. Yes, so
what is that about it? Why do you think that
we're so unhappy? You think it's technology.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
I'm not personally so unhappy, but I know a lot
of women who are.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
I mean, yeah, I mean everything all roads lead back
to social media, right, But I don't know. I think
we have way more access to each other's lives and
by each other just mean our friends and our family,
but around the world, right, like we see, right.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Which I think makes it very easy to compare ourselves
to other people. And I think comparison, it's very true,
it's the thief of joy. It's any time I start
to compare myself to other people, I feel bad instantly.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
To comparison, to despair. If you hear that. Yeah, so,
but also like I don't know, there's a lot this
world is not This is not an easy place to
be right now. I mean I can think of when
I feel unhappy, and part of it, yes, I think
it has to do with comparing and social media and

(39:58):
all of that, but also just world is so crazy
and I can get myself caught up in thinking about
the Middle East and Israel and just be depressed and
and you know, it's this is a crazy world that
we live in, no matter how much stuff we have,
and certainly you and I are very blessed, and there
always gonna beeple that people that have more than us

(40:19):
and people that have left way less and way more.
We have enough, and that how you know, luckier we
that we don't have to we're not hungry, and we
have way more than we even need. But still there's unhappiness.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
Well, I think you know what social media does is
makes a lot of things anti climactic. Like I always
said to myself, if I ever get to actually publish
a book, like that's all I'll ever need in life.
And then I published a book, and like three weeks later,
I was kind of like, yeah, it doesn't feel like

(40:54):
it's amazing, but it doesn't feel like I thought it
would feel because then I look on and I see
people whose books better than mine, and I see people
who are on longer book tours and people who are
enjoying it more. And I was, and it makes everything
kind of feel anti climactic, right, And then it said

(41:14):
to myself, God, if I ever get an podcast on
iHeart and a.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Book, it's all all ever fucking read in the world.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
And now I've got a podcast on iHeart and a book,
and it's kind of like how life works.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Well, I don't. I don't feel satisfied yet what else
do I know?

Speaker 1 (41:33):
FOT is different than an unhappy Like, No, I'm not unhappy.
I'm just saying, like social media, I'm saying, this is
why I'm happy, because nothing is ever good enough because
you were always seeing what everyone else is doing.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Well. I always tell the story of how when we
this is our third house in my town, and when
we saw it and we were bidding on it and
hoping to get it, I remember saying, if I end
up we end up getting this house, I will never
have an unhappy day. I can ever like and the house,
my house is a beautiful house. It's not you know,
I don't live enough in a mansion and it's it

(42:07):
is just a beautiful house that I fell in love
with when I saw it, and I thought, I'll never
be unhappy. I can't be unhappy living in this house.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
I mean, I do recall someone on our cast saying
it was a cute little house.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yes, I definitely it was a cute little house. Yes,
everything you have that perspective, I suppose, but it is.
It is a cute house. Just I love my house, gorgeous.
I've had many unhappy moments here, so yeah, I know,
I just you know what, and I do feel like
unhappy ones.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
It does sound like therapy mumbo jumbo, but it brings
ties back everything about authenticity and female friendships and all
of it and what gives life meaning. And I think
that you really are not going to find and I
learned this the hard way. You're not going to find
happiness from external stuff, because there's always going to be

(42:59):
some one doing it better, someone who looks better, someone
who's richer, smarter, achieving more. You really have to do
the inner work. And like I envy so much the
people who are so at peace with their lives and
happy with their lives that they don't search for external validation,
because as much as I've conquered my insecurities, I still

(43:23):
need more external validation than I'm comfortable with.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
And I think that's so human, right, It's like that's
I think most most of us, specifically women, but like
feel like that, and I mean, you get better, right,
I Mean, we've talked a lot about this, but it's
not trying to be You're trying, you know, if you're
trying to climb up the ladder, whatever the ladder is.

(43:49):
I don't know, the social ladder at the door, let's
say the ladder of fame, or and you're up at
the top right now, you're famous, and you are, you
feel beautiful, and all you worry about is the fall,
writer is losing what you have up here, And then
when you're down at the bottom, you can only concentrate
on climbing that ladder, getting somewhere. And meanwhile, the idea

(44:09):
is to know that you're special, you're enough, you have enough,
like living in dignity doesn't matter if you're up here
or down here. I mean I've told that. My shrink
told me that a long time ago, and it's always
sort of stuck with me, and especially like in the
crazy world that I've been living in. You've been living
in longer than I have. But of reality television where

(44:29):
oh everybody likes me, and then what if they don't
like me tomorrow or nobody likes me? How do I
make them like me? You know, it's like it has
to just living authentically, maybe just like it doesn't matter.
I know who I am. I do the best I can.
I love who I love. Blah blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yeah. Same, But I don't want I don't want you
to take wrong what I said. I think female friendships
are incredibly important, and they're incredibly important to me. I
just don't me personally. I don't think that they replace
the their relationship wrong with what you said.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
I mean, yeah, I don't. This is your experience, Like
that's another one of those buzz things I can't expressions.
It's your experience and that's your value.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
Journey, Journey stopped gaslighting, Journey, stop gas lighting.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
I'm weaponizing my life. But I you know, I do.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
I do enjoy making new friends, and I don't think
you're ever too old to make new friends. And I
don't know, I think I really struggled with friendships when
I was in high school and so now I I appreciate.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Them so much.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
And when I am with my friends, I feel good.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
I feel really good.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
And when I'm with the wrong people, I feel really bad.
And you've seen that, You've seen the way I change
in certain situation.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
I mean we have all gone through that in our
own ways, everybody. I mean, you know that's not I
know how you feel and I've felt it too.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
Yeah, anyway, if you haven't watched White Lotus, go watch
it because it is definitely even outside.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
I didn't want to go to Thailand after watching.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
It, Yeah, I don't. I've never felt a draw to Thailand,
I did. I think ever since the tsunami, I've been scared.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
I've been always thought I would want to go there,
But like it wasn't like the other White Lotuses that
were Where were they Greece for one of them? Oh
my god?

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Season two of White Lotus in Sicily, Yes, was the
most amazing television show I have why in Italy? Why
was the first season I thought was good?

Speaker 2 (46:41):
Second season was all amazing, Like like Thailand, the way
that they portrayed it just felt very dark.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
I heard, oh yeah, that water balloon festival in town.
Yeah they yeah, they did not do it justice. I
know that people like it was like even in.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
A school that they sat by, it was like there
was never any sun, like they were sitting sunbathing. I
couldn't even feel.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Yeah, second season of White Lotus is the best show ever.
I think that third season was the second best. And
first season I liked, didn't love I mean anything that
Jennifer Coolidge y Oh, I mean, she's just amazing.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
But by the way, on the plane ride.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Home from Spain, I couldn't sleep, so I watched Bob
Dylan movie and then it was over, and I didn't
know watch you know, I love a biopic and I
love music movies, but I thought it was just like
I think Timothy Shallomey was amazing.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
But the movie itself I thought was very good. I
definitely didn't think it was I don't know, he was
coming up for me and like, I'm like nah.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Anyway, So after that I didn't want to watch another movie.
I didn't have an attention span, so I was slipping
through the TV shows on there, and I haven't been
watching as much Bravo these days only because like I'm
watching Atlanta Housewives. Sometimes it's a little hard for me
to watch the Housewives right now because I have very
mixed feelings about how I feel about things, and so
I've been avoiding some of the Housewives shows. But they

(48:11):
had season one of The Valley on there, and I
never watched earlier Van der Pum Rules season, so I
know nothing about these characters. And I watched episode one,
season one of The Valley and oh my god, I
watched all three and then came home and like binge
the rest of season one. It is so good. Dentfessler

(48:31):
watched The Valley is maybe the best show I've ever
seen on Bravo. Oh, come on, unbelievable. Yes, it's unbelievable.
Every person on that show is giving it everything. I mean,
I'm only at the end of season one, but really
truly interesting people giving it everything and really being talk

(48:53):
about being authentica.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
So and I would love to get.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
That you met who did you meet from the valt Brittany.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
But I sat by Janet and she was it was
really fun, like we had a great time together. And
then she said they would said they would come on
the pod and Brittany too.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
I would love that. I would love it. It's a
really great show. Anyway, this was fun. This was fun,
and it was authentic. It was very authentic, and I
look forward to one day when we were little old
ladies seeing what our friendship's like.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Without the show. Yes, a man's Sister. So until next time, guys,
next time,