February 6, 2023 • 52 mins
Kaitlyn Bristowe joins Chris Harrison.
Chris tackles the big headlines of the week which, in a shocking twist, included Kaitlyn Bristowe talking about how he ghosted her after the Bachelor announcement.
Chris gives his side of the story and with this being The Most Dramatic Podcast Ever…also invited Kaitlyn on to hash it out and…she agreed. Will they be able to work it out or will old wounds be exposed?
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the most dramatic podcast ever, and I heard
radio podcast. Welcome to the most dramatic podcast ever. I'm
Chris Harrison. Welcome to another dramatic week. A week where
I wasn't exactly sure what the big topics and big
headlines we're gonna be, and then it turned out maybe
the most dramatic headline of the week involve me. Caitlin
(00:22):
Bristow went on a podcast and talked about our friendship
deteriorating and how I essentially ghosted her. Well, you know,
I have to talk about this, but there's only one
way to do it. Caitlin Bristow is going to join
me because we have a lot to talk about, but
we have a lot of other dramatic headlines to get to.
(00:43):
My beautiful fiance, Laurenzima is here with me. Tom Brady
has retired again after twenty three years in the NFL.
The forty five year old says, this time it is
for real and it's for good. And on that point,
I totally believe um that this is it. At forty
five years old, he is done. Well. The reason we
(01:05):
wanted to bring this up because you know, the most
dramatic headlines will be about the relationship headliness. No, no, no, no,
he would never do that to me or to the
wonderful listeners at home. But even I am invested in
this right because when Tom Brady first announced his retirement,
pretty quickly his relationships seemed to fall apart. And then
(01:26):
we found out that he and Gazelle bunch in after
many years together, we're getting a divorce, which is always sad,
is always hard. Um. And then now when he announces
his second retirement, I turned to you and said, was
it worth it? And it's really interesting to me how people,
(01:47):
and maybe there's a difference in men women, you know,
your relationship status, how you react to this news. Because
my first reaction when hearing okay, so after all that,
you know, he was only retired the first time for
a weeks and he goes back as another season plays
poorly right or poorly? Was not good? Okay? Um? And
(02:07):
then now he's officially going to retire once again. So
one more season, one more mediocre season by his standards. Anyway,
was it worth it? I have two bizarre schools of thought,
and it's funny that your mind went there. My mind
went to when he immediately retired last time last year,
(02:29):
and the f t X crypto thing came out. I
think two things are at play here. One I think
Tom Brady was he was a big advisor and part
of the f t X scandal, this crypto scandal. I
think he lost tens of millions of dollars. And my
first thought was, Oh, he and his agents had to
(02:51):
get him back because he lost so much money, and
it would also kind of turn the tide on any
PR problems. But when he retired this time, my first
thought was, you know what he did last year. He
went back to be with his boys. It was therapy
for him. And I don't believe and I don't know.
I don't know Giselle, I don't know Tom. I've never
(03:12):
met either one of them, but I find it hard
to believe that he unretired and then you know, a
month later, that's what tore their relationship apart, and that's
what caused the divorce. Maybe it was the straw that
broke the camel's back, but I can't imagine that is
what really blew it up from the start. So my
thought was Tom knew they were headed this direction. They
probably had already started the proceedings and separating their lives.
(03:37):
And for a guy, I think it was his therapy.
It was I need to go back and belong to something.
I can't just get a divorce and not have my job,
not have my locker room, not have my boys. So
I think it was more therapeutic and cathartic that he
went back knowing he was getting a divorce. I have
(03:58):
nothing scientific to debate this on. Just as a man,
I could see that's why he may have done it. Well,
that's interesting and looks certainly, if one major area of
your life is falling apart your relationship, you don't want
your career to be falling apart two. But I mean, look,
I agree with you. I certainly don't think the divorce.
They must have been having problems for a while, and
(04:18):
there were rumors about that for a while. But you know,
she has kind of set in interviews, I I what
she has said. Her own words were that she kind
of needed him to show her that the family was
a priority. She needed him to set football aside, and
he wasn't willing to do that. What my read on it,
more so was I I think when you have someone
(04:39):
in a relationship who's so passionate about their job. And also,
I mean you're dealing with two people who are in
the very top of their field, of the greatest in
their field. Yeah, she is the highest. She either still
holds the title or did hold the title for highest
paid supermodel in the world. He's known as the goat, right, Okay,
she's kind of the goat herself. Yes, to be referred
(05:00):
to as go but yes, so Dad's dramatic dad joke
of the week. Um, So, I think that you're dealing
with two people who, in order to have a family,
they had to both make sacrifices for their careers. I
think she felt like she'd made more of the sacrifice
and she was ready for him to do that, and
he couldn't show her he could do that. And I
(05:24):
mean that's the thing, though, if you can't walk away,
then you have drawn that line in the sand. And
when I but when I say was it worth it?
I would be interested for him to give and I
don't think he will, but I would like for him
to give a very honest interview about it. Now. I
do think it could have been worth it in that
for any of us, whether it's a job or a relationship,
(05:46):
I've said before, I have to know I put everything
into this thing before I can walk away. And maybe
for him, he had to play that final season and no,
you know what, I don't think I can keep winning
super Bowls every time, and and so he had to
know time I'm done. And maybe maybe and you know,
it's hard to leave on top. Very few superstars have
the ability to win and then walk away. And again, Hey, Tom,
(06:11):
open invitation to come on the most dramatic podcast ever.
I would love to talk to him. I will talk
zero sports with you. Maybe we'll talk a little golf
because he's a big golfer. Um. But I really want
to know what was the impetus for coming back. Was
it what Lauren is saying or was it more of, Hey,
my life is falling apart, we are separating. I realized,
(06:33):
now I can't say this marriage. I need to go
back to at least something I can control. And you
and I know this, and we've both been through divorces
and we've been through something else that was pretty extraordinary.
You want to hold onto something you can control, and
football between the lines, he knew he could control, even
going back to a team that wasn't that great, and
he knew he wasn't gonna win the super Bowl, but
(06:55):
at least he had control of that. When I was
going through my divorce, I didn't tell anyone at work.
No one at work knew that I was having marital problems.
Nobody knew that anything was wrong. I just when it
was happening, when we had definitely split. Then I kind
of started to tell a few people. And in part
(07:15):
that was because, you know, I mean, certainly, when you're
thinking maybe we'll stay together, then you you don't want
to tell everybody In case you stay together, UM, you
don't want people to have that, you know, remember that
it's hard for people to forget um. But it was
more so that it was I was like, my personal
life is struggling so much. I can't let this career
(07:39):
that I've worked so hard for be affected too. I
have to, like, I've worked so hard for this, this
has to remain intact, and this part of my life
has to be the same and a safe space where
I can go just like you were, I would I
would probably say I did the same thing, and most
of mine was because, yes, I had to deal with
the press of it all and being the joke and
(07:59):
the talk of the town on the late night shows
and stuff as the host of the Bachelor is getting divorced.
I mean, the jokes right themselves, but I too wanted
to at least control this environment. It was something I
was good at. It was something that I was recognized for,
and at least this part of my life I had
peace while the rest of it was falling apart. And
I maybe that's the way it was for Tom. Do
(08:21):
you remember any of the late night jokes. I remember
Jimmy Kimmel, and I remember talking to Jimmy Kimmel about Yeah,
I think we are friendly, and I think he even
texted me of like, hey, sorry, pal, you know just
he reached out and I said, I totally get it.
I mean, if I was in the same position, I
would be writing these jokes too. The doctor of Love,
(08:42):
the guy who's known for love is getting a divorce.
I mean, come on, it's pretty rich. Yeah, I mean
talk about dad jokes. It's a layup, um. But yeah,
by the way, open invitation to Tom, open invitation to Giselle.
I would love to I really would love to talk
to them on a very personal level, just about these relationships.
Of when, when they knew what led to these decisions?
(09:04):
What did him coming back force or did it at all?
Was this already a foregone conclusion? A lot of questions
that only two people know. Um, and if you know, obviously,
if they want to go peacefully into the night, God
bless them for that. Well, I saw a lot of
people now saying, um, will they get back together? I
don't think that. I don't think so. I think it's
that ship is sailed, right. And she wrote something very
(09:26):
nice on his Instagram announcement of retirement number two. She
said something like, I wish you all the best in
the future. I think that's done. What's your good saying
about relationships? But they end for a reason, relationships and
for a reason. And it's not to say some people
get back together, I know, but usually things in for
a reason. And that is true as as did this story.
(09:47):
And so let's move on to our next headline. This
is a surprise headline for you, a twist on Oh yes, well,
we want to do a twist on the most traumatic
headlines ever. We're going to surprise each other. This just
the headline I found and and LZ doesn't know about this.
I just found it fascinating. Not really the story. It's
about actress Emily Raddikowski upon her divorce. I guess she's
(10:10):
had two divorces, this one to Sebastian Bear mclard um.
And she was asked about her wedding ring and wedding
rings in general and dresses. And we had had this
discussion last week. Is what made it come right to
mine when we talked about the wedding dress and what
do you do with it? Do you save it? Is
it weird if your fiance new wife has her dress
(10:31):
or old dress from a prior wedding and the same
thing goes for rings. And she said, you know, I
keep it. I still have my wedding ring. And I
thought about you, and I'm like, I don't know where
your wedding ring is. And I thought, you know what,
I bet Lauren doesn't know where my wedding ring is
from my prior wedding. Do you have it? I don't
know where it is? You haven't I do? Um. My
(10:52):
wedding ring was something that was really I know they're
all personal, but it was very emotional for me and
tied to my family. It was a replica of my
grandfather's ring, And you know what my grandfather meant to me, Um,
and all of us seven grandchildren. I'm the youngest of seven.
When we got married, we all had my grandfather's ring
(11:13):
replicated and we all wear those. So that's what I had.
And so I and my grandfather and grandmother were still
alive when I got married. They're both gone now, God
rest their souls. But I kept it because it's a
tie to them, not necessarily to my wedding. But I
keep it because every time I see it, it reminds
me of my grandfather, who I admired as much as
any man in my life, and the same thing for
(11:34):
my grandmother. I never had a wedding ring, I could say,
but it makes so much sense. I don't want to
say anything disparaging, but it just seems to fit. Why
(11:54):
why it's never gonna laugh? Yeah, why didn't you have
a wedding ring? I you know, Well, honestly, I I
had my engagement ring, and I really liked my engagement
I loved my engagement ring, actually, Um, and I just
didn't see the point in a wedding ring. I thought,
I know, some people kind of style them and stacked
them together and all that. But to be honest, I thought,
(12:19):
we've spent enough money on the engagement ring. Why do
I need a wedding ring. I've wondered if I'll get
a wedding ring for you, and I, well, that's what
I was just thinking. So right now, what you have
on very beautiful ring. But I love my engagement so
it's an engagement ring. So I see what you're saying,
adding on the wedding band. Yeah, I don't want to
change the way it looks. I love it exactly as
it is. Okay, well, I think that's totally fine. By
(12:39):
the way, if you want to do that, that's great. Um,
But you know, it's funny, I thought the same thing.
I had not thought. I've guys obsessed so much about
the ring, and I wanted to get Laura in the
right ring, and it was something that I was so
worried about because she's very particular, and what are you
talking about in a good way? And so I just
(12:59):
I just wanted to you happy, and I wanted to
be something you loved. Then I thought to myself, after
reading this story with Emily Raddikowski, was like, oh, I'm
also getting married. I haven't thought about getting totally forgot
you were getting married. I forgot. I just forgot about
getting a ring. I haven't. We haven't talked about it.
I haven't thought about your right. But by the way, okay,
(13:20):
is this to my point? How important is a wedding ring? Well,
I think, to me, not really that important. Let's get tattoos.
I don't want to get it. Who was it either
Wells or began tests the wedding tattoo? Um, I don't.
I don't do test one. They're very chic. I'm not
(13:41):
as cool as Beyonce who dropped the Big World Tour.
By the way, congrass Beyonce. But I think I would
just go basic ring. Um if I did another one.
I think I would like to have a ring. I
think it's representative of our love and our commitment. Can
I say there's something sexy about the idea of you
in a wedding ring. I don't want to get weird
(14:02):
on the podcast now, but I do like that it's
there's some It's kind of like you like to wear watches.
I think men don't wear that much jewelry, so it
is just a nice successory to see. So I would
like to see you in a wedding ring. I don't
know if I'll get a wedding ring again. I love
my engagement ring, and hey, I'm a babe on a budget.
I do think if it's not that important to you,
you don't need to spend the money. You already have
the engagement ring. It's okay. Um, so yeah that's interesting. Yes, wait,
(14:26):
but you still haven't told me where your wedding ring is.
It's in It's in my closet. Gosh, I've got to
go through a little jewelry. You go through my stuff,
plunny um, And honestly, you you may you may have
seen it a million times and wouldn't even know because
it's it's a lover's not. So you may have seen
it because it does not look like a conventional wedding ring.
(14:49):
And people used to ask me all the time on
the show, because obviously I was married for the first
chunk that I was doing the Bachelor Bacherettes, and people
would ask, is that your wedding ring? What is that?
And it was kind of a Celtic not a lovers
not and that's what my grandfather had, and so I
had one made pretty close to it a replica, and
so it probably you've seen it and just didn't know. Well,
(15:12):
now we got to see about a new wedding band.
We should tell people when we're gonna get married soon.
We should do a whole podcast about We will do
a whole podcast. It needs more of a moment. Well,
(15:34):
that leads me to the headline, I'm surprising you with
relationship related headline, of course, one of the most dramatic
headlines of the week. Ben Stiller and his lovely wife
Christine have been married for years. They actually split up
and got back together, but now they're back together speaking
out of people being able to get back together, and
(15:54):
she has revealed on her new podcast that they were
both each there's rebounds in the very beginning that when
they first started dating, they'd both gotten out of serious
relationships and they didn't take their own relationship seriously because
they were both rebounding. But now it's so interesting because
they've been married, they've been together almost twenty years in total.
(16:14):
So the question is is it a good idea to
date someone who's on the rebound. I need a rebound
spectrum because there's zero of Oh, I was just dating
someone for a few weeks, a few months, whatever, It
wasn't that serious. I'm on. You know you're on the
rebound technically. Two. I was married twenty years, I have kids.
(16:36):
I'm on winding a lot. Well. Part of the reason
I picked this is because I think it's very applicable
to you and I. We've said before, I don't know
if you and I would be together if I was
the first person you dated. I think you can move that. Yeah.
I actually I've never told this story. I actually apologized
(16:56):
to the first person I started dating, and I said,
I'm just telling you right now, I'm a red hot mess. Yeah,
I'm gonna be no didotist like the first date? Are you?
He was pretty early on. I just said, you know, look,
I I this is not going to go well. She
stuck with it. Was, you know, in the cute, charming
(17:17):
way that I can present things. But I just knew.
Like I said, I had been married almost twenty years,
two kids. I hadn't dated since the nineties, so things
had changed quite a bit. Apparently I missed my twenties
and thirties started dating in my forties, so very interesting.
A whole new world presented itself to me and I
(17:37):
just knew I needed time. I needed time, honestly to
dive into my kids make sure everybody was okay, not
because they needed it, because I needed to do that.
That's that's the caretaker in me. So I was. I
was pretty self aware that I was probably pretty messy. Well,
there you go on the rebound spectrum. Yes you were.
I was the twelve from zero to ten. I was
(18:00):
the twelve on the spectrum. Well exactly, how are you? Well,
We're gonna keep the focus on you for a minute.
Let me let's circle back on me. I do think
you needed to figure out dating again. Like you said,
it's really interesting. I mean, you got married very young.
You're twenty two and so you had never dated after college.
You'd never dated as an adult, right, Apparently going to
(18:22):
Raiders of the Lost Dark no longer that great of
a date. I love you've told me the story about
how you had to realize that it was. It might
have even come across weird to ask someone to pick
them up. First of all, phone calls. I like to
call people. I'm not a big Texter. I think it's
just impersonal and things get lost in translation. I mean,
(18:43):
if you call as you start dating. If you call
a girl and you offered to pick them up for
a date, you would have thought I was a serial killer.
The first person I said, well, i'll pick you up,
and there was this this long pause. She's like, I'm
not giving him my address. Clearly her head was spinning,
(19:04):
and she quickly came up with a lie, Well, I'm
gonna be coming from here there work, I'll meet you there.
I'm like, okay. So I asked another friend of mine,
a girl. I said, Hey, did I just do something wrong?
I called this person, I asked her out on a
date at dinner date, and I was going to a place.
(19:27):
I picked a place geographically kind to where she lived,
and you would have thought I slapped her in public.
It was just like it was so off putting. And
then I learned and she's like, oh, yeah, we don't
do that anymore because stalkers. You know, time podcast is
ruined it for all of us. Well, I love that
(19:47):
you're trying to be a gentleman, um, but yeah, I
do think you you had to figure out how to
date again, and there was certainly I think an element
of you having to see what else was out there,
Like if you and I had met each other then.
To be honest, I don't know if you would have
appreciated how great I am. I would not have No,
I wouldn't have it. I'm glad that I went through
(20:10):
the exercise I did of being alone living alone. I
think that's important. By the way, um just finding out
are you a dependent person? Are you an independent person?
Do you like being alone? Can you be alone with
yourself and enjoy your life and then you can add
somebody to that, they don't become your life. So I
think I was much healthier and ready. As you always say,
(20:33):
you're always a huge proponent of life places, life experiences
and moments, and it's about timing. Our timing was right, yes,
But what's interesting is I was worried when we started
dating that I was dating too soon after getting out
of my marriage. I was worried that it was I
was worried I needed to take more time for myself,
(20:55):
and I remember kind of having this debate in my head.
I dated. So I've been single for a matter of months.
I'd kind of just gone on some dates with some
other people, and then you and I went on our
first date. And I remember thinking fairly early on I
didn't take I also didn't take it very seriously fairly
early on, I was like trepidacious. I also honestly thought,
(21:16):
you know what's I gotta be careful about dating him.
How will this affect my career? I don't want people
to think that I'm just using him as a you know,
for a moment. So we kept thinking secret for something
like six months until we really knew it was serious.
But I remember thinking early on, I don't know if
I need more time on my own, but I also
(21:40):
don't this guy is great, and I don't know if
I want to let him go, Like is it worth?
I wound up coming to the conclusion that you gotta
take chances, you gotta go for it. And I knew
how great you were, and so I couldn't let this
wonderful man pass me by. UM. I also think I
realized that, even though I was still a bit in
(22:00):
the rebound phase, that my marriage had been unwinding for
a while, and so it wasn't like I got out
of something in this kind of shocking way. And I
also wasn't married for as long as you were, so
you know, I think I and I had dated in
my twenties. I've had those single years, so I was
I was still in a life place of wanting to
(22:21):
be in a relationship. I wasn't like, I want to
get out there and date. I had wanted to be
in a relationship at that phase. So maybe it's also
about what you're wanting. Are you wanting a rebound and
you just want to have a little fun or are
you wanting that relationship. I'm glad you made that choice.
By the way, me too. Where we gotta get wedding rings? Gosh,
Hall grows up another big dramatic headline, and we can
(22:56):
finally put a pin in this story. Amy Robot t
J Homes are out. At Good Morning America. It is official.
They are gone. Statement released on a Friday night as
all news that needs to get buried. Is he the
trash on a Friday afternoon. You and I have talked
about this so much because I think we've seen so
much of our own struggle in Amy and t J's journey.
(23:21):
Um and man, I will say, I just look at
all this and I think, what a mess, What a
mess of the way that this always handled Because it
was something that ended up being in the press for
months I don't think it had to be. And at
the end of the day, now, I mean to me,
these were two people very beloved, their ratings were good,
(23:41):
they were doing well, and now ABC's got to start
all over again, figure it out. I think it was
all very poorly handled, and the damage control the source
reporting on this was pretty fascinating. The leaks that were
coming out um from the news room, from Exact A producers,
from other producers, and that basically stated exactly what you
(24:05):
were saying, that the morale in the news room and
at ABC News is at an all time low, that
this is something that should have lasted two days, and
it lasted months and then ended up in a meltdown
of epic proportions, and it's spawn out of control. There's
(24:27):
a saying, if you stand for everything in life, you
stand for nothing. I'm gonna invent a new saying. If
you stand for nothing in life, you stand for nothing,
and it causes an absolute mess. I just coined this
phrase because of something I kind of went through, and
I've watched what Amy and t J have gone through,
(24:47):
and it's when people in positions of power leaders stand
for nothing, they think they're being safe they're waiting to
see which way the wind is blowing. What are people
saying on social media? That's not leadership, And that is
what created this void, that then created this mess, that
(25:08):
then created what we have now where and I get
the t J. You know, the the affairs that came
up and all that they had no choice but to
let him go. You mean, because it came out he'd
had affairs with he had other affairs with supports, Yeah,
allegedly and so and then. But Amy is kind of
caught in the crossfire because she still has done nothing
(25:29):
other than get in a relationship with t J. Holmes.
But there's someone who was at work, yes, with so
many equal clearly, but if you're read between the lines,
what happened was a settlement was reached. Is it a
fire able offense if you have a romantic relationship with
someone who's you're equal at work? And what you're talking
(25:51):
about standing for nothing or standing for something? I think
that we all like to feel a sense of comfort.
We like to feel like a decision and has been made,
And the problem they had here was that no decision
was made. Think about how much you hate being in
a are we or aren't we in a relationship versus
if someone would just break up with you. It's like,
(26:11):
just dump me if you're gonna dump me, or let's
stay We're gonna stay together and let's try to figure
this out. The are we or aren't we? To me
is worse because if you've gotten dumped, you can start
moving forward. They were in this are we or aren't we?
And I think the audience felt that, the public felt
that their newsroom felt that, and people just want to know,
are we standing by this or not? And I do
(26:33):
think that if the decision had been made to support
them and to say no, you know what, t J
and Amy are going to stay on the air. We
think they're both really good at their jobs and they're
staying on the air, then I think the audience would
have been we would have been Yeah. The biggest thing
to me about this whole situation and it was a
reminder out of a lot of what we've been through. UM.
(26:55):
But I actually learned it years ago when I lost
my dad. UM is that you can be at a company,
at a brand, and it's in any industry. You can
be there for decades. You can feel very connected to
this company in this job but that relationship you and
your company. At the end of the day, they are
looking out for their bottom line, for their brand, for
(27:17):
their bottom line, for their money, and you have to
look out for yourself because as much as you might
feel like work is your family, and we all spend
so much time at work, right it's a huge part
of our lives. There's a motion in that relationship, but
it's still business and that company is still going to
do what's best for them, and it's a good reminder
of that. Three more headlines I want to get to
(27:41):
that have to do with kind of Bachelor related headlines.
Number one, first and foremost, Caitlin Bristow made some news
last week talking about me in that I had ghosted
her during her stant as host of The Batchelor Bachelor
(28:01):
when she came in, when her ination came in. She
did an interview on a podcast and it made headlines.
It made a lot of headlines. My phone is blown up.
I am going to dive deeper into this story and
just a little bit as we bring Caitlin Bristow on
for an interview and the two of us are going
to dive into this. But before we get to that,
(28:24):
I want to congratulate former Bachelorette Claire Crawley, who got
married to Mascot Sports CEO Ryan Dawkins. Congratulations Claire Um
someone who has kind of been a part of the franchise.
Was a part of the franchise for quite some time.
She was on one Pablos season and and we brought
her back as the bachelorette. Just always love Claire. She
(28:46):
was always just one of those people that I wanted
to find love, and I, you know, I thought we
did on the show during that pandemic season where she
was the batcherette. It obviously didn't work out, but it
has now and she has found her help. Did you
really think she found love on that season? I thought
it was just crazy enough to work. I did, I
really did. I did not. I thought, you know what,
(29:07):
it's the pandemic. There are no rules, it's bizarre. Maybe
this just will work. You thought that Claire and Dale
were going to make You know, I'm a hopeless optimist.
I am a big believer of when this happens, when
things happened like this, I am all in. But she
got married. By the way. A side note to this wedding.
Her wedding dress was stolen from her car? Are you
(29:31):
kidding me? First of all, who steals a wedding dress?
That's horrible. There's a special place in hell for someone
who steals a wedding dress, right, you know what it is.
So a couple of questions. If you see a wedding dress,
you know what it is. What are you gonna do
with it? What are you gonna take it to a
pawn shop? Yeah, they're going to sell it? Yeah, but
can you sell a wedding dress put on I don't know,
(29:53):
Facebook market place? Of course you can sell a wedding dress.
Well then I stand corrected on that, but still, but
if we take the positive spin on it, I was
really impressed by Claire's reaction. She said she just moved forward,
She got another dress. She said, if it's meant to
be this way, it'll be. And I thought, oh my gosh,
that is the right outlook to have as a bride,
because I've been to enough weddings and I've been in
(30:14):
a wedding of my own at this point to know
your wedding day is not going to go off a perfectly.
There will be some kind of hitch and your happiness
on that day hinges on whether you can go with
the flow. I mean, sometimes there's a disaster, but on
the little stuff go with the flow, and your wedding
dress getting stolen and her going with the flow, I
applaud Claire Crawley. Well, I think this shows that a
(30:34):
she's in love and be she has grown tremendously because
and I think Claire will back me up on this,
if if something like this had happened while she was
the bacherette, it would not have gone well. Oh. I
think she would have been pretty upset and there would
have been uh, some downtime in shooting while we figured
this out. So you see some growth here. I see
some growth. And I think it also just goes to
(30:56):
when you're happy and you find peace in your life,
you find peace in all of your life. And I
think that's where she is. And I'm so happy for
her and Ryan are congratulations. I still can't believe that
you thought her and they were going to work. I'm
proticing this, can I ask you really quickly. I don't
know if he'll be honest about this. I know you're positive.
(31:16):
I know you're an optimist who from the show got
engaged and you are like I don't think this is
going to work out. M hm. He doesn't always like
to answer these questions. But I was trying to think
of somebody that. I mean, I was trying to think earlier.
I go early days for some reason. That's why I
guess I start in chronological order and work my way up.
(31:36):
I don't know as many of those as the opposite,
where oh you thought it was really gonna I thought
it was gonna work and it didn't work. I mean, look,
could you look at you know, Ari and Becca? And
(31:57):
I remember too with Ason Mesnick that ended up being
in the Great Switch, just because there was so much
confusion and so much emotion emotion going into those uh
decisions Alex Michelle from season one. So just there was
times when I thought, you know, are they fully committed
(32:18):
to this? Um often it's the Bachelor's not the bachelorettes.
Women are just better at this. You're better human beings.
Men are not smart animals. Well that's the gauge too though, right.
I always say this, I think the greatest indicator of
a relationship success is effort. Like when you just said,
as someone committed, is someone trying? Because if they're trying,
that means they want to be there. If it's a
(32:41):
quick indicator to me, if someone's not putting an effort,
get out, because you can't make somebody care. Totally agree.
Al Right, Well, anyway, congrats to Claire truly, she looks
so happy and so beautiful, and she is somebody who
has been through a lot, and so I'm so happy
that she's finally found the right person for her. Before
we go to break, um, I want to make note
(33:02):
of this, and this is on a somber note, and
it just breaks my heart. It breaks our heart, dear friends.
Sarah Herron, beloved member of Our Bachelor World, and her
fiance Dylan Brown, announced their son Oliver passed away after
being born at just twenty four weeks old. The couple
(33:24):
said that Oliver died in his dad's arms shortly after
being born. And I don't have much to say it
all other than Sarah Dylan, we send our love, our prayers.
We're thinking about you guys. Um. I know this is
unimaginable at this time, and we just love you and
(33:49):
support you, and just know that thousands, hundreds of thousands
of people are sending their love and support to you
as well. We'll be right back. Welcome back to the
(34:12):
most dramatic podcast ever. I'm Chris Harrison. Easily the most
dramatic headline of the week is something we're about to
dive into, and that was an interview that Caitlin Bristow
gave last week where she was talking about the demise
of our friendship and how, in her words, it had
(34:33):
gone down the toilet when she got the job the
mentorship is hosting the Bachelorette with Tassia, and she expressed
a lot in that interview, and I wanted to dive
into this because I think this is really interesting on
so many levels for a relationship and a friendship. I
(34:57):
think many years ago, maybe when I was younger, I
would have taken this as someone throwing shade. She's angry
at me, she's taking shots, and then you get into
this he said, she said, going back and forth, Um,
trading blows. But I don't think that's what this is about.
And I'll be honest, I haven't spoken to Caitlin yet.
(35:19):
We're about to talk. She's about to join me right
here on the show, and you're gonna hear it all.
But what I took from this when I read the articles,
listened to the podcast that she did. It wasn't a
cry for help, but I took it as a cry
for something that she lost, something that she was sad
(35:43):
that she lost, and that was our friendship. And so
instead of getting mad or even disappointed, which I'm not,
I was saddened that a friend of mine was mourning
the loss of our friendship and that that friendship had changed.
And yeah, us to a certain degree, it did change.
(36:03):
And we're going to talk all about that. And again,
Caitlin and I had have texted several times over the
last week, but we have not had a chance to
talk on the phone. And I'm glad because you are
going to get to hear everything as it plays out
(36:24):
in real time right now. Joining me right now from
her home in Nashville, Tennessee, Caitlin Bristow. Caitlin, thank you
so much for jumping on and joining me. Oh my gosh,
Chris Harrison, thank you for having me. I I want
to say, unfortunately, we are not holding up our podcast
(36:44):
tradition and sharing a few bottles of wine while we
do this, as we did the first time when I
was doing your podcast back at my house in Los Angeles. Um,
we need to get back to that tradition soon. But
I am at the home office in Austin. You're in Nashville,
So I'm gonna in it over to you. Yes, what
did you want to say? What were you hoping to
(37:06):
express in that interview? First of all, I hate headlines
so much because they never tell the full story. They
all it's always just you know how it is to
get people who just like believe one thing and then
they're not going to read the article. I mean, I'm
guilty of it. I read headlines all the time and go,
oh my god, and then I don't read the poll article. Um.
But in that in that interview, which I'm actually shocked
(37:29):
that it blew up like this because I feel like
I've talked about this before on my own podcast. But
what I was saying in it was not that you
ghosted me. I was just saying that you and I
were so close and when everything went down and then
I got this whatever you want to call it, role
of quote unquote mentoring because they didn't want to pay
(37:50):
me what they pay you to host. Uh. They that
I was like, oh my gosh, I need to talk
to Chris. That's that was my first reaction. I was like,
I have to talk to Chris. All the headlines again
are saying Caitlin and Tasia taking over Chris's job, and
I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold the phone. And
then obviously I was not thinking about what you could
(38:12):
be going through, So I'm only thinking about myself, going
he's not texting me back, he must hate me, He's
not saying anything to me, Like, obviously I did something wrong,
and I just, you know, went into a little self
pity party and decided to put the blame on you
for a minute. But what I was saying in the
interview was it's it wasn't about me. You were going
(38:33):
through so much at that time, and you probably didn't
even know what you wanted to say to me or
how to say it. And you're you're not like me.
You react with logic. I react with emotion. I was like, hello,
bombarding you with text messages. You weren't responding to me,
and I just needed to realize it wasn't about me
at that time. That's what I was trying to say,
(38:54):
And that's why I wanted to have you on because
you know, going back and forth based on clickbait headlines.
And I, for one know when you're on a podcast
and you say a lot, and you kind of say
things off the cuff, but when it's put in print,
it looks so different and it sounds so different, especially
when you line things up when you say, Caitlin Bristow,
(39:14):
you know, our our relationship went down the toilet and
I texted him ten times and he didn't respond, and well,
you're just kind of throwing these things out making a
grander point, but when you just put him in print,
it looked really bad. Because I'll back up and let
everybody in on on how this went down back in
the day. Was so you were right as all this
(39:36):
came out. You were on entertainment tonight and I knew that,
and so I called you that morning and we talked
a little bit, and you made the statements that you
were going to make, and we talked about that, and
I supported you and said, look, I totally understand do
what you gotta do, um that this doesn't affect us.
And then subsequently, Um you and TASTI were name aimed.
(40:00):
We hadn't talked after that, and then when you were
named a mentor again, we we will get into that part.
So you texted me after you got the mentorship and
the Tin time. By the way, when she says Tin texts,
seven of them were just that day and I'm not
going to read them to you. But it was, you know,
one of those things where she missed a word and
she's like, wait, I meant this and meant this. So
(40:22):
it wasn't like you were hammering me with text messages
of call me, call me, call me. It was really
this one strain of thoughts that came out on one
day and then a couple I think a week later
or so you said, hey, if you get a chance,
call me, um. And so there wasn't a ghosting um.
(40:43):
And I don't even know if you said I ghosted you,
but that was just clickbait. Yeah. So, but as far
as the ghosting thing goes, that wasn't the case at all.
And it had nothing, and I mean nothing to do
with you and Tasia hosting the show. It had to
do with the fact that I was going through something
extraordinary and it had really nothing to do and I
(41:04):
don't mean this in a condest anyway. I had nothing
to do with you or Tasha, And at that time
I needed people in my life, and I circled the
wagons with people that could be unconditionally loving and caring,
people that were reaching out saying, hey, Bud, how are
you are you okay? Checking on my kids, checking in
on Lauren, making sure she was okay, and you weren't
(41:29):
equipped to do that because of where you were in
all this. I don't know what, does that make sense? Yeah,
but yes it does. And I this is why talking
it out is so important, is because again, perception is
never the actual reality. And so to me, I was like,
I feel like I did reach out to you, and
(41:51):
then I feel like I did reach out to Lauren,
and I feel like I cared so much, but I
was also in such a weird position, and then I
understand that you were also into weird positions. So when
I didn't get text messages back, I was like, Okay,
it's just this is what it has to be. The
relationship obviously has to change. So then I feel like
(42:11):
I wanted to continue to reach out and check in
and talk, but then I felt like, well, I'm he's
not ready to talk to me, Like it was like
this weird thing that we should have just freaking jumped
on the phone and I know, And that's what I
was saying in that interview is now I know from
you know, the benefit of hindsight, I now know that
was nothing to do with me. That was nothing to
(42:31):
do with like you said, um, and you were in
a position where I totally understand. When you're going through
something like that, you have to really take a look
at your circle and who is who is in it,
and who's there for you and and who you know
cuts you out or doesn't talk to you. So I
get I totally get it well in the dynamic of
our relationship. It's not unlike many you know, look for
(42:55):
twenty years I've for bachelor's and bachelorettes. I was the
mentor somewhat of it, maybe a father figure where I
listened and I asked questions and I was all about
you in your life because that was my job. And
I cared and I took a lot of pride in that,
and that's that's how our relationships started. At this time,
(43:19):
I needed that flip of just the hey, how are
you like? Are you okay? Not? Not? Are you okay
with me taking the show? And you're irreplaceable? And I
I appreciated those words. I did, but it was just
at that time I wasn't. I didn't have the bandwidth
to deal with all of that, and I wasn't. And
(43:42):
by the way, I really and truly just wasn't worried
at all about who was hosting and who was the
next mentor and what the show was going to do.
I get that I was thinking of you, as Chris Harrison,
the host of the Bachelor franchise, worried about that. I wasn't,
and and I was thinking about our friends, but I
wasn't thinking about you as a human being and what
(44:02):
you might have been going through at that time. And
I think that's natural because that's how our relationship has
always been to a certain degree. I mean, it's it's
definitely evolved, as as wonderful relationships do. Um, but I
find I I find many of those relationships that have
started as the Bachelor Bacherette have kind of remained that
not one sided, but definitely more so. Yeah, just because
(44:26):
that's how it started. And I think some of you
kind of still look at me as that person that
you know. I remember my parents and now being a parent,
I get it, like my kids don't go hey, that
how are you doing? You know, what's going on in
your life? Tell me about you? And so when a
relationship starts like that, it takes a long time for
it to evolve out of that. Yeah, I never thought
(44:48):
about it like that, to be honest with you, which again,
I'm glad to hear that side of it because that's
so valid and so fair, and I never really thought
about it that way. Well, it was important to me
to have this conversation, and I wanted ever went to hear,
and I'm glad we didn't talk. And I told everybody
leading into our interview that you and I were trying
to talk. But Caitlin is the busiest woman in the world.
For four days, we've been exchanging text messages trying to
(45:10):
set up a phone call and then, honest to god, guys,
I got a text at three am this morning from
Caitlin saying, hey, sorry, I never called you. Um, I
will see you, you know, for this zoom that we're
doing for this podcast and my dear lord. So this
show is about relationships, it's about love, it's about communicating,
(45:31):
and it's important to me. And I thought, you know,
if I was younger and I saw maybe this click
bait headlines. I would have been like, you know, Caitlin
is dead to me or screw her or whatever. Instead
I saw it and correct me if I'm wrong. Not
as a cry for help, but I said, as a
cry for a lost friendship and something that she has
realized that she lost in her life that's changed, and
(45:53):
so she wasn't trying to shade me. It was a
cry for hey, I don't want to lose this, And
that's how I took it. Good. I'm glad you took
it that way because I have genuinely since that, since
that moment of not getting text back, have been like
grieving our friendship. Like I was like, oh my gosh,
I missed the days where I could call you at
(46:15):
any time or talk to you or like, I don't know,
I just I loved our friendship so much. And so yeah,
I feel like obviously I could have gone about that
in a much different way. But you know how podcasts
go now that your podcast, yeah, I know, well you do.
You get these interviews and you go into things and
aspects of it that you weren't expecting, and you just
start talking and you get pretty comfortable and you just
(46:37):
let it go. And and even the it doesn't take
much to crack that vault. But you know, even things
that came off awkward, like the meeting at Wells and
Sarah's wedding, I was so excited to see you guys,
Lauren and I. You know, honestly, the other thing I
can tell people's I talked to j a lot. I
talked to Jason. Um we talk a lot more than
(47:00):
I talked to you, because we you know, we also
text each other like dudes do about sports and stuff.
But I was so excited to see you guys at
the wedding, and it wasn't awkward at all. We came.
I was talking to Jason and you were talking to
somebody else, and then you walked over and joined us,
and I gave you a big hug, and it was
really sweet what you said. And it came off and
in print like it was awkward, and I want to
(47:22):
tell people it was not. When when you said to me, hey,
I miss you and I missed this, I it really
hit me in the heart. And I gave you a big,
long hug and we embraced for probably ten seconds too long.
And you know, I, I said, you know, I'm I'm
I've always been here. I'm always here for you, and
that's I didn't mean like, hey, I'm always here. It's
(47:43):
on you and that's when you see it in print.
That's how it came off, but it wasn't. You should
know that Caitlin and I were hugging, hugging, and I
didn't whisper in her ear, but I just said to her,
it's like, I'm always here. You know you haven't lost me?
Was my point to me the hug. I was like, oh,
got I genuinely like miss you. And when you said
(48:03):
I've always been here, that's when my brain went, no,
you haven't. You ignored me and you didn't text me back.
But again, we all know how I'm dramatic. That's why
you know you've seen it all too well. That was
how I respond. I respond always with emotion and I
wanted to be like but I didn't feel like you were.
But again I had to rel it in and know
(48:25):
that you didn't have to be You didn't have to
be there for me at that time. I should have
been more there for you, if anything, and I was
expecting you'd be there for me, and that was wrong.
I know, you were a little put off too during
that time because I had spoken to Tasia and it
came out that I had congratulated her. Well, the truth is,
(48:46):
Tasia and I were talking about something completely different, and
someone on the inside of production had let me know
that you guys were going to take over as mentors
um host whatever it was named. But someone on the
inside let me know that, which I appreciated, And while
I was talking to take you about something completely different,
(49:07):
I did mention to her. I was like, oh, hey,
by the way, I do know this because neither one
of you had reached out and said hey, because it
was awkward. Another one of you reached out and said, hey, Chris,
just know that they're talking to me about this. We're
gonna do this. So while I was on the phone
with her, I just brought it up myself and said,
just so you know, no hard feelings for you and Caitlin.
I am in no way angry. I'm in no way bitter.
(49:28):
I don't feel like you two stabbed me in the back.
I would not expect either one of you to say,
I love Chris, he's my friend. I'm turning down this job,
you know, Screw you. Knowing, well, they're just gonna go
get somebody else. Why would you turn down that opportunity
when this had nothing to do with you, That's all
I said to her. That's really fair. I feel like
(49:48):
in that time I wastly thinking about my own feelings
there um, I mean, and it was all because I
freaking love you, that's the that was all where the
stem um is because I don't want anyone because I have,
to a different extent, did not know what you were
going through because it is you know, it's uncomfortable. I'm
(50:11):
friends with I'm friends with you. Then I get this
role that I don't know what I'm doing, and it
all just was so uncomfortable, and I just didn't I
made it about me in that moment because I didn't
want you to be upset with me, not even thinking
I'm not even thinking, oh, he's actually going through something else.
He's not upset with me. This has nothing to do
(50:32):
with me. I didn't think that in the moment. Yeah,
And I didn't want to bring everybody else into that.
And as I said to you, you know, when we
talked on the phone as you were about to do
that entertainment tonight story, I said, look, you know, the
only thing I can do right now, like if you
speak up, if you say something and it's taken the
wrong way or whatever's like, you're just going to be
drug into this. And I was like, don't don't come
(50:53):
into this. Um and and as I, you know, save
yourself and just move on. And I did that out
of love, and I did that out of caring for everybody.
But the other thing is I as I as things
settled down and you guys were hosting the show, Um, yeah, A,
it was awkward and be where would I fit into that,
(51:15):
you know, calling you and Tasia. Honestly, what I would
have loved is for you two to have called me
during the negotiation and during when they were talking to you,
so I could have helped you like I normally would have.
You could have called and said, hey, this is because
oh my gosh, do you really think we would call
you to help us negotiate to that? You know, you
know I would have by the way I would have
(51:35):
told you guys, I know you would have. I would
have been like, hey, so hey, I'm taking your job
that you've had for twenty years. Um, I want this
to be totally normal, which clearly I did not do
a good job at because they were like, yeah, no,
well we're that was not on you, and it was
not on Tasha. It was not on either one of you. Well,
(51:57):
I'm glad we're finally getting this chance to talk, and
I want to push the pause button for the moment
because we're coming to the end of our time here
on this podcast. But there's so much more I want
to talk to you about about hosting The Bachelorette, what
that was like, all the emotions you went through, what
you thought about me in that moment, and what about
(52:20):
you and Jason, how are you doing? Are you planning
a wedding? I want to hear about all of it.
So this conversation will continue because we have a lot
more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on
Instagram at the most Dramatic pod ever, and make sure
to write us a review and leave us five stars.
I'll talk to you next time.
This is the most dramatic podcast ever, and I heard
radio podcast. Welcome to the most dramatic podcast ever. I'm
Chris Harrison. Welcome to another dramatic week. A week where
I wasn't exactly sure what the big topics and big
headlines we're gonna be, and then it turned out maybe
the most dramatic headline of the week involve me. Caitlin
(00:22):
Bristow went on a podcast and talked about our friendship
deteriorating and how I essentially ghosted her. Well, you know,
I have to talk about this, but there's only one
way to do it. Caitlin Bristow is going to join
me because we have a lot to talk about, but
we have a lot of other dramatic headlines to get to.
(00:43):
My beautiful fiance, Laurenzima is here with me. Tom Brady
has retired again after twenty three years in the NFL.
The forty five year old says, this time it is
for real and it's for good. And on that point,
I totally believe um that this is it. At forty
five years old, he is done. Well. The reason we
(01:05):
wanted to bring this up because you know, the most
dramatic headlines will be about the relationship headliness. No, no, no, no,
he would never do that to me or to the
wonderful listeners at home. But even I am invested in
this right because when Tom Brady first announced his retirement,
pretty quickly his relationships seemed to fall apart. And then
(01:26):
we found out that he and Gazelle bunch in after
many years together, we're getting a divorce, which is always sad,
is always hard. Um. And then now when he announces
his second retirement, I turned to you and said, was
it worth it? And it's really interesting to me how people,
(01:47):
and maybe there's a difference in men women, you know,
your relationship status, how you react to this news. Because
my first reaction when hearing okay, so after all that,
you know, he was only retired the first time for
a weeks and he goes back as another season plays
poorly right or poorly? Was not good? Okay? Um? And
(02:07):
then now he's officially going to retire once again. So
one more season, one more mediocre season by his standards. Anyway,
was it worth it? I have two bizarre schools of thought,
and it's funny that your mind went there. My mind
went to when he immediately retired last time last year,
(02:29):
and the f t X crypto thing came out. I
think two things are at play here. One I think
Tom Brady was he was a big advisor and part
of the f t X scandal, this crypto scandal. I
think he lost tens of millions of dollars. And my
first thought was, Oh, he and his agents had to
(02:51):
get him back because he lost so much money, and
it would also kind of turn the tide on any
PR problems. But when he retired this time, my first
thought was, you know what he did last year. He
went back to be with his boys. It was therapy
for him. And I don't believe and I don't know.
I don't know Giselle, I don't know Tom. I've never
(03:12):
met either one of them, but I find it hard
to believe that he unretired and then you know, a
month later, that's what tore their relationship apart, and that's
what caused the divorce. Maybe it was the straw that
broke the camel's back, but I can't imagine that is
what really blew it up from the start. So my
thought was Tom knew they were headed this direction. They
probably had already started the proceedings and separating their lives.
(03:37):
And for a guy, I think it was his therapy.
It was I need to go back and belong to something.
I can't just get a divorce and not have my job,
not have my locker room, not have my boys. So
I think it was more therapeutic and cathartic that he
went back knowing he was getting a divorce. I have
(03:58):
nothing scientific to debate this on. Just as a man,
I could see that's why he may have done it. Well,
that's interesting and looks certainly, if one major area of
your life is falling apart your relationship, you don't want
your career to be falling apart two. But I mean, look,
I agree with you. I certainly don't think the divorce.
They must have been having problems for a while, and
(04:18):
there were rumors about that for a while. But you know,
she has kind of set in interviews, I I what
she has said. Her own words were that she kind
of needed him to show her that the family was
a priority. She needed him to set football aside, and
he wasn't willing to do that. What my read on it,
more so was I I think when you have someone
(04:39):
in a relationship who's so passionate about their job. And also,
I mean you're dealing with two people who are in
the very top of their field, of the greatest in
their field. Yeah, she is the highest. She either still
holds the title or did hold the title for highest
paid supermodel in the world. He's known as the goat, right, Okay,
she's kind of the goat herself. Yes, to be referred
(05:00):
to as go but yes, so Dad's dramatic dad joke
of the week. Um, So, I think that you're dealing
with two people who, in order to have a family,
they had to both make sacrifices for their careers. I
think she felt like she'd made more of the sacrifice
and she was ready for him to do that, and
he couldn't show her he could do that. And I
(05:24):
mean that's the thing, though, if you can't walk away,
then you have drawn that line in the sand. And
when I but when I say was it worth it?
I would be interested for him to give and I
don't think he will, but I would like for him
to give a very honest interview about it. Now. I
do think it could have been worth it in that
for any of us, whether it's a job or a relationship,
(05:46):
I've said before, I have to know I put everything
into this thing before I can walk away. And maybe
for him, he had to play that final season and no,
you know what, I don't think I can keep winning
super Bowls every time, and and so he had to
know time I'm done. And maybe maybe and you know,
it's hard to leave on top. Very few superstars have
the ability to win and then walk away. And again, Hey, Tom,
(06:11):
open invitation to come on the most dramatic podcast ever.
I would love to talk to him. I will talk
zero sports with you. Maybe we'll talk a little golf
because he's a big golfer. Um. But I really want
to know what was the impetus for coming back. Was
it what Lauren is saying or was it more of, Hey,
my life is falling apart, we are separating. I realized,
(06:33):
now I can't say this marriage. I need to go
back to at least something I can control. And you
and I know this, and we've both been through divorces
and we've been through something else that was pretty extraordinary.
You want to hold onto something you can control, and
football between the lines, he knew he could control, even
going back to a team that wasn't that great, and
he knew he wasn't gonna win the super Bowl, but
(06:55):
at least he had control of that. When I was
going through my divorce, I didn't tell anyone at work.
No one at work knew that I was having marital problems.
Nobody knew that anything was wrong. I just when it
was happening, when we had definitely split. Then I kind
of started to tell a few people. And in part
(07:15):
that was because, you know, I mean, certainly, when you're
thinking maybe we'll stay together, then you you don't want
to tell everybody In case you stay together, UM, you
don't want people to have that, you know, remember that
it's hard for people to forget um. But it was
more so that it was I was like, my personal
life is struggling so much. I can't let this career
(07:39):
that I've worked so hard for be affected too. I
have to, like, I've worked so hard for this, this
has to remain intact, and this part of my life
has to be the same and a safe space where
I can go just like you were, I would I
would probably say I did the same thing, and most
of mine was because, yes, I had to deal with
the press of it all and being the joke and
(07:59):
the talk of the town on the late night shows
and stuff as the host of the Bachelor is getting divorced.
I mean, the jokes right themselves, but I too wanted
to at least control this environment. It was something I
was good at. It was something that I was recognized for,
and at least this part of my life I had
peace while the rest of it was falling apart. And
I maybe that's the way it was for Tom. Do
(08:21):
you remember any of the late night jokes. I remember
Jimmy Kimmel, and I remember talking to Jimmy Kimmel about Yeah,
I think we are friendly, and I think he even
texted me of like, hey, sorry, pal, you know just
he reached out and I said, I totally get it.
I mean, if I was in the same position, I
would be writing these jokes too. The doctor of Love,
(08:42):
the guy who's known for love is getting a divorce.
I mean, come on, it's pretty rich. Yeah, I mean
talk about dad jokes. It's a layup, um. But yeah,
by the way, open invitation to Tom, open invitation to Giselle.
I would love to I really would love to talk
to them on a very personal level, just about these relationships.
Of when, when they knew what led to these decisions?
(09:04):
What did him coming back force or did it at all?
Was this already a foregone conclusion? A lot of questions
that only two people know. Um, and if you know, obviously,
if they want to go peacefully into the night, God
bless them for that. Well, I saw a lot of
people now saying, um, will they get back together? I
don't think that. I don't think so. I think it's
that ship is sailed, right. And she wrote something very
(09:26):
nice on his Instagram announcement of retirement number two. She
said something like, I wish you all the best in
the future. I think that's done. What's your good saying
about relationships? But they end for a reason, relationships and
for a reason. And it's not to say some people
get back together, I know, but usually things in for
a reason. And that is true as as did this story.
(09:47):
And so let's move on to our next headline. This
is a surprise headline for you, a twist on Oh yes, well,
we want to do a twist on the most traumatic
headlines ever. We're going to surprise each other. This just
the headline I found and and LZ doesn't know about this.
I just found it fascinating. Not really the story. It's
about actress Emily Raddikowski upon her divorce. I guess she's
(10:10):
had two divorces, this one to Sebastian Bear mclard um.
And she was asked about her wedding ring and wedding
rings in general and dresses. And we had had this
discussion last week. Is what made it come right to
mine when we talked about the wedding dress and what
do you do with it? Do you save it? Is
it weird if your fiance new wife has her dress
(10:31):
or old dress from a prior wedding and the same
thing goes for rings. And she said, you know, I
keep it. I still have my wedding ring. And I
thought about you, and I'm like, I don't know where
your wedding ring is. And I thought, you know what,
I bet Lauren doesn't know where my wedding ring is
from my prior wedding. Do you have it? I don't
know where it is? You haven't I do? Um. My
(10:52):
wedding ring was something that was really I know they're
all personal, but it was very emotional for me and
tied to my family. It was a replica of my
grandfather's ring, And you know what my grandfather meant to me, Um,
and all of us seven grandchildren. I'm the youngest of seven.
When we got married, we all had my grandfather's ring
(11:13):
replicated and we all wear those. So that's what I had.
And so I and my grandfather and grandmother were still
alive when I got married. They're both gone now, God
rest their souls. But I kept it because it's a
tie to them, not necessarily to my wedding. But I
keep it because every time I see it, it reminds
me of my grandfather, who I admired as much as
any man in my life, and the same thing for
(11:34):
my grandmother. I never had a wedding ring, I could say,
but it makes so much sense. I don't want to
say anything disparaging, but it just seems to fit. Why
(11:54):
why it's never gonna laugh? Yeah, why didn't you have
a wedding ring? I you know, Well, honestly, I I
had my engagement ring, and I really liked my engagement
I loved my engagement ring, actually, Um, and I just
didn't see the point in a wedding ring. I thought,
I know, some people kind of style them and stacked
them together and all that. But to be honest, I thought,
(12:19):
we've spent enough money on the engagement ring. Why do
I need a wedding ring. I've wondered if I'll get
a wedding ring for you, and I, well, that's what
I was just thinking. So right now, what you have
on very beautiful ring. But I love my engagement so
it's an engagement ring. So I see what you're saying,
adding on the wedding band. Yeah, I don't want to
change the way it looks. I love it exactly as
it is. Okay, well, I think that's totally fine. By
(12:39):
the way, if you want to do that, that's great. Um,
But you know, it's funny, I thought the same thing.
I had not thought. I've guys obsessed so much about
the ring, and I wanted to get Laura in the
right ring, and it was something that I was so
worried about because she's very particular, and what are you
talking about in a good way? And so I just
(12:59):
I just wanted to you happy, and I wanted to
be something you loved. Then I thought to myself, after
reading this story with Emily Raddikowski, was like, oh, I'm
also getting married. I haven't thought about getting totally forgot
you were getting married. I forgot. I just forgot about
getting a ring. I haven't. We haven't talked about it.
I haven't thought about your right. But by the way, okay,
(13:20):
is this to my point? How important is a wedding ring? Well,
I think, to me, not really that important. Let's get tattoos.
I don't want to get it. Who was it either
Wells or began tests the wedding tattoo? Um, I don't.
I don't do test one. They're very chic. I'm not
(13:41):
as cool as Beyonce who dropped the Big World Tour.
By the way, congrass Beyonce. But I think I would
just go basic ring. Um if I did another one.
I think I would like to have a ring. I
think it's representative of our love and our commitment. Can
I say there's something sexy about the idea of you
in a wedding ring. I don't want to get weird
(14:02):
on the podcast now, but I do like that it's
there's some It's kind of like you like to wear watches.
I think men don't wear that much jewelry, so it
is just a nice successory to see. So I would
like to see you in a wedding ring. I don't
know if I'll get a wedding ring again. I love
my engagement ring, and hey, I'm a babe on a budget.
I do think if it's not that important to you,
you don't need to spend the money. You already have
the engagement ring. It's okay. Um, so yeah that's interesting. Yes, wait,
(14:26):
but you still haven't told me where your wedding ring is.
It's in It's in my closet. Gosh, I've got to
go through a little jewelry. You go through my stuff,
plunny um, And honestly, you you may you may have
seen it a million times and wouldn't even know because
it's it's a lover's not. So you may have seen
it because it does not look like a conventional wedding ring.
(14:49):
And people used to ask me all the time on
the show, because obviously I was married for the first
chunk that I was doing the Bachelor Bacherettes, and people
would ask, is that your wedding ring? What is that?
And it was kind of a Celtic not a lovers
not and that's what my grandfather had, and so I
had one made pretty close to it a replica, and
so it probably you've seen it and just didn't know. Well,
(15:12):
now we got to see about a new wedding band.
We should tell people when we're gonna get married soon.
We should do a whole podcast about We will do
a whole podcast. It needs more of a moment. Well,
(15:34):
that leads me to the headline, I'm surprising you with
relationship related headline, of course, one of the most dramatic
headlines of the week. Ben Stiller and his lovely wife
Christine have been married for years. They actually split up
and got back together, but now they're back together speaking
out of people being able to get back together, and
(15:54):
she has revealed on her new podcast that they were
both each there's rebounds in the very beginning that when
they first started dating, they'd both gotten out of serious
relationships and they didn't take their own relationship seriously because
they were both rebounding. But now it's so interesting because
they've been married, they've been together almost twenty years in total.
(16:14):
So the question is is it a good idea to
date someone who's on the rebound. I need a rebound
spectrum because there's zero of Oh, I was just dating
someone for a few weeks, a few months, whatever, It
wasn't that serious. I'm on. You know you're on the
rebound technically. Two. I was married twenty years, I have kids.
(16:36):
I'm on winding a lot. Well. Part of the reason
I picked this is because I think it's very applicable
to you and I. We've said before, I don't know
if you and I would be together if I was
the first person you dated. I think you can move that. Yeah.
I actually I've never told this story. I actually apologized
(16:56):
to the first person I started dating, and I said,
I'm just telling you right now, I'm a red hot mess. Yeah,
I'm gonna be no didotist like the first date? Are you?
He was pretty early on. I just said, you know, look,
I I this is not going to go well. She
stuck with it. Was, you know, in the cute, charming
(17:17):
way that I can present things. But I just knew.
Like I said, I had been married almost twenty years,
two kids. I hadn't dated since the nineties, so things
had changed quite a bit. Apparently I missed my twenties
and thirties started dating in my forties, so very interesting.
A whole new world presented itself to me and I
(17:37):
just knew I needed time. I needed time, honestly to
dive into my kids make sure everybody was okay, not
because they needed it, because I needed to do that.
That's that's the caretaker in me. So I was. I
was pretty self aware that I was probably pretty messy. Well,
there you go on the rebound spectrum. Yes you were.
I was the twelve from zero to ten. I was
(18:00):
the twelve on the spectrum. Well exactly, how are you? Well,
We're gonna keep the focus on you for a minute.
Let me let's circle back on me. I do think
you needed to figure out dating again. Like you said,
it's really interesting. I mean, you got married very young.
You're twenty two and so you had never dated after college.
You'd never dated as an adult, right, Apparently going to
(18:22):
Raiders of the Lost Dark no longer that great of
a date. I love you've told me the story about
how you had to realize that it was. It might
have even come across weird to ask someone to pick
them up. First of all, phone calls. I like to
call people. I'm not a big Texter. I think it's
just impersonal and things get lost in translation. I mean,
(18:43):
if you call as you start dating. If you call
a girl and you offered to pick them up for
a date, you would have thought I was a serial killer.
The first person I said, well, i'll pick you up,
and there was this this long pause. She's like, I'm
not giving him my address. Clearly her head was spinning,
(19:04):
and she quickly came up with a lie, Well, I'm
gonna be coming from here there work, I'll meet you there.
I'm like, okay. So I asked another friend of mine,
a girl. I said, Hey, did I just do something wrong?
I called this person, I asked her out on a
date at dinner date, and I was going to a place.
(19:27):
I picked a place geographically kind to where she lived,
and you would have thought I slapped her in public.
It was just like it was so off putting. And
then I learned and she's like, oh, yeah, we don't
do that anymore because stalkers. You know, time podcast is
ruined it for all of us. Well, I love that
(19:47):
you're trying to be a gentleman, um, but yeah, I
do think you you had to figure out how to
date again, and there was certainly I think an element
of you having to see what else was out there,
Like if you and I had met each other then.
To be honest, I don't know if you would have
appreciated how great I am. I would not have No,
I wouldn't have it. I'm glad that I went through
(20:10):
the exercise I did of being alone living alone. I
think that's important. By the way, um just finding out
are you a dependent person? Are you an independent person?
Do you like being alone? Can you be alone with
yourself and enjoy your life and then you can add
somebody to that, they don't become your life. So I
think I was much healthier and ready. As you always say,
(20:33):
you're always a huge proponent of life places, life experiences
and moments, and it's about timing. Our timing was right, yes,
But what's interesting is I was worried when we started
dating that I was dating too soon after getting out
of my marriage. I was worried that it was I
was worried I needed to take more time for myself,
(20:55):
and I remember kind of having this debate in my head.
I dated. So I've been single for a matter of months.
I'd kind of just gone on some dates with some
other people, and then you and I went on our
first date. And I remember thinking fairly early on I
didn't take I also didn't take it very seriously fairly
early on, I was like trepidacious. I also honestly thought,
(21:16):
you know what's I gotta be careful about dating him.
How will this affect my career? I don't want people
to think that I'm just using him as a you know,
for a moment. So we kept thinking secret for something
like six months until we really knew it was serious.
But I remember thinking early on, I don't know if
I need more time on my own, but I also
(21:40):
don't this guy is great, and I don't know if
I want to let him go, Like is it worth?
I wound up coming to the conclusion that you gotta
take chances, you gotta go for it. And I knew
how great you were, and so I couldn't let this
wonderful man pass me by. UM. I also think I
realized that, even though I was still a bit in
(22:00):
the rebound phase, that my marriage had been unwinding for
a while, and so it wasn't like I got out
of something in this kind of shocking way. And I
also wasn't married for as long as you were, so
you know, I think I and I had dated in
my twenties. I've had those single years, so I was
I was still in a life place of wanting to
(22:21):
be in a relationship. I wasn't like, I want to
get out there and date. I had wanted to be
in a relationship at that phase. So maybe it's also
about what you're wanting. Are you wanting a rebound and
you just want to have a little fun or are
you wanting that relationship. I'm glad you made that choice.
By the way, me too. Where we gotta get wedding rings? Gosh,
Hall grows up another big dramatic headline, and we can
(22:56):
finally put a pin in this story. Amy Robot t
J Homes are out. At Good Morning America. It is official.
They are gone. Statement released on a Friday night as
all news that needs to get buried. Is he the
trash on a Friday afternoon. You and I have talked
about this so much because I think we've seen so
much of our own struggle in Amy and t J's journey.
(23:21):
Um and man, I will say, I just look at
all this and I think, what a mess, What a
mess of the way that this always handled Because it
was something that ended up being in the press for
months I don't think it had to be. And at
the end of the day, now, I mean to me,
these were two people very beloved, their ratings were good,
(23:41):
they were doing well, and now ABC's got to start
all over again, figure it out. I think it was
all very poorly handled, and the damage control the source
reporting on this was pretty fascinating. The leaks that were
coming out um from the news room, from Exact A producers,
from other producers, and that basically stated exactly what you
(24:05):
were saying, that the morale in the news room and
at ABC News is at an all time low, that
this is something that should have lasted two days, and
it lasted months and then ended up in a meltdown
of epic proportions, and it's spawn out of control. There's
(24:27):
a saying, if you stand for everything in life, you
stand for nothing. I'm gonna invent a new saying. If
you stand for nothing in life, you stand for nothing,
and it causes an absolute mess. I just coined this
phrase because of something I kind of went through, and
I've watched what Amy and t J have gone through,
(24:47):
and it's when people in positions of power leaders stand
for nothing, they think they're being safe they're waiting to
see which way the wind is blowing. What are people
saying on social media? That's not leadership, And that is
what created this void, that then created this mess, that
(25:08):
then created what we have now where and I get
the t J. You know, the the affairs that came
up and all that they had no choice but to
let him go. You mean, because it came out he'd
had affairs with he had other affairs with supports, Yeah,
allegedly and so and then. But Amy is kind of
caught in the crossfire because she still has done nothing
(25:29):
other than get in a relationship with t J. Holmes.
But there's someone who was at work, yes, with so
many equal clearly, but if you're read between the lines,
what happened was a settlement was reached. Is it a
fire able offense if you have a romantic relationship with
someone who's you're equal at work? And what you're talking
(25:51):
about standing for nothing or standing for something? I think
that we all like to feel a sense of comfort.
We like to feel like a decision and has been made,
And the problem they had here was that no decision
was made. Think about how much you hate being in
a are we or aren't we in a relationship versus
if someone would just break up with you. It's like,
(26:11):
just dump me if you're gonna dump me, or let's
stay We're gonna stay together and let's try to figure
this out. The are we or aren't we? To me
is worse because if you've gotten dumped, you can start
moving forward. They were in this are we or aren't we?
And I think the audience felt that, the public felt
that their newsroom felt that, and people just want to know,
are we standing by this or not? And I do
(26:33):
think that if the decision had been made to support
them and to say no, you know what, t J
and Amy are going to stay on the air. We
think they're both really good at their jobs and they're
staying on the air, then I think the audience would
have been we would have been Yeah. The biggest thing
to me about this whole situation and it was a
reminder out of a lot of what we've been through. UM.
(26:55):
But I actually learned it years ago when I lost
my dad. UM is that you can be at a company,
at a brand, and it's in any industry. You can
be there for decades. You can feel very connected to
this company in this job but that relationship you and
your company. At the end of the day, they are
looking out for their bottom line, for their brand, for
(27:17):
their bottom line, for their money, and you have to
look out for yourself because as much as you might
feel like work is your family, and we all spend
so much time at work, right it's a huge part
of our lives. There's a motion in that relationship, but
it's still business and that company is still going to
do what's best for them, and it's a good reminder
of that. Three more headlines I want to get to
(27:41):
that have to do with kind of Bachelor related headlines.
Number one, first and foremost, Caitlin Bristow made some news
last week talking about me in that I had ghosted
her during her stant as host of The Batchelor Bachelor
(28:01):
when she came in, when her ination came in. She
did an interview on a podcast and it made headlines.
It made a lot of headlines. My phone is blown up.
I am going to dive deeper into this story and
just a little bit as we bring Caitlin Bristow on
for an interview and the two of us are going
to dive into this. But before we get to that,
(28:24):
I want to congratulate former Bachelorette Claire Crawley, who got
married to Mascot Sports CEO Ryan Dawkins. Congratulations Claire Um
someone who has kind of been a part of the franchise.
Was a part of the franchise for quite some time.
She was on one Pablos season and and we brought
her back as the bachelorette. Just always love Claire. She
(28:46):
was always just one of those people that I wanted
to find love, and I, you know, I thought we
did on the show during that pandemic season where she
was the batcherette. It obviously didn't work out, but it
has now and she has found her help. Did you
really think she found love on that season? I thought
it was just crazy enough to work. I did, I
really did. I did not. I thought, you know what,
(29:07):
it's the pandemic. There are no rules, it's bizarre. Maybe
this just will work. You thought that Claire and Dale
were going to make You know, I'm a hopeless optimist.
I am a big believer of when this happens, when
things happened like this, I am all in. But she
got married. By the way. A side note to this wedding.
Her wedding dress was stolen from her car? Are you
(29:31):
kidding me? First of all, who steals a wedding dress?
That's horrible. There's a special place in hell for someone
who steals a wedding dress, right, you know what it is.
So a couple of questions. If you see a wedding dress,
you know what it is. What are you gonna do
with it? What are you gonna take it to a
pawn shop? Yeah, they're going to sell it? Yeah, but
can you sell a wedding dress put on I don't know,
(29:53):
Facebook market place? Of course you can sell a wedding dress.
Well then I stand corrected on that, but still, but
if we take the positive spin on it, I was
really impressed by Claire's reaction. She said she just moved forward,
She got another dress. She said, if it's meant to
be this way, it'll be. And I thought, oh my gosh,
that is the right outlook to have as a bride,
because I've been to enough weddings and I've been in
(30:14):
a wedding of my own at this point to know
your wedding day is not going to go off a perfectly.
There will be some kind of hitch and your happiness
on that day hinges on whether you can go with
the flow. I mean, sometimes there's a disaster, but on
the little stuff go with the flow, and your wedding
dress getting stolen and her going with the flow, I
applaud Claire Crawley. Well, I think this shows that a
(30:34):
she's in love and be she has grown tremendously because
and I think Claire will back me up on this,
if if something like this had happened while she was
the bacherette, it would not have gone well. Oh. I
think she would have been pretty upset and there would
have been uh, some downtime in shooting while we figured
this out. So you see some growth here. I see
some growth. And I think it also just goes to
(30:56):
when you're happy and you find peace in your life,
you find peace in all of your life. And I
think that's where she is. And I'm so happy for
her and Ryan are congratulations. I still can't believe that
you thought her and they were going to work. I'm
proticing this, can I ask you really quickly. I don't
know if he'll be honest about this. I know you're positive.
(31:16):
I know you're an optimist who from the show got
engaged and you are like I don't think this is
going to work out. M hm. He doesn't always like
to answer these questions. But I was trying to think
of somebody that. I mean, I was trying to think earlier.
I go early days for some reason. That's why I
guess I start in chronological order and work my way up.
(31:36):
I don't know as many of those as the opposite,
where oh you thought it was really gonna I thought
it was gonna work and it didn't work. I mean, look,
could you look at you know, Ari and Becca? And
(31:57):
I remember too with Ason Mesnick that ended up being
in the Great Switch, just because there was so much
confusion and so much emotion emotion going into those uh
decisions Alex Michelle from season one. So just there was
times when I thought, you know, are they fully committed
(32:18):
to this? Um often it's the Bachelor's not the bachelorettes.
Women are just better at this. You're better human beings.
Men are not smart animals. Well that's the gauge too though, right.
I always say this, I think the greatest indicator of
a relationship success is effort. Like when you just said,
as someone committed, is someone trying? Because if they're trying,
that means they want to be there. If it's a
(32:41):
quick indicator to me, if someone's not putting an effort,
get out, because you can't make somebody care. Totally agree.
Al Right, Well, anyway, congrats to Claire truly, she looks
so happy and so beautiful, and she is somebody who
has been through a lot, and so I'm so happy
that she's finally found the right person for her. Before
we go to break, um, I want to make note
(33:02):
of this, and this is on a somber note, and
it just breaks my heart. It breaks our heart, dear friends.
Sarah Herron, beloved member of Our Bachelor World, and her
fiance Dylan Brown, announced their son Oliver passed away after
being born at just twenty four weeks old. The couple
(33:24):
said that Oliver died in his dad's arms shortly after
being born. And I don't have much to say it
all other than Sarah Dylan, we send our love, our prayers.
We're thinking about you guys. Um. I know this is
unimaginable at this time, and we just love you and
(33:49):
support you, and just know that thousands, hundreds of thousands
of people are sending their love and support to you
as well. We'll be right back. Welcome back to the
(34:12):
most dramatic podcast ever. I'm Chris Harrison. Easily the most
dramatic headline of the week is something we're about to
dive into, and that was an interview that Caitlin Bristow
gave last week where she was talking about the demise
of our friendship and how, in her words, it had
(34:33):
gone down the toilet when she got the job the
mentorship is hosting the Bachelorette with Tassia, and she expressed
a lot in that interview, and I wanted to dive
into this because I think this is really interesting on
so many levels for a relationship and a friendship. I
(34:57):
think many years ago, maybe when I was younger, I
would have taken this as someone throwing shade. She's angry
at me, she's taking shots, and then you get into
this he said, she said, going back and forth, Um,
trading blows. But I don't think that's what this is about.
And I'll be honest, I haven't spoken to Caitlin yet.
(35:19):
We're about to talk. She's about to join me right
here on the show, and you're gonna hear it all.
But what I took from this when I read the articles,
listened to the podcast that she did. It wasn't a
cry for help, but I took it as a cry
for something that she lost, something that she was sad
(35:43):
that she lost, and that was our friendship. And so
instead of getting mad or even disappointed, which I'm not,
I was saddened that a friend of mine was mourning
the loss of our friendship and that that friendship had changed.
And yeah, us to a certain degree, it did change.
(36:03):
And we're going to talk all about that. And again,
Caitlin and I had have texted several times over the
last week, but we have not had a chance to
talk on the phone. And I'm glad because you are
going to get to hear everything as it plays out
(36:24):
in real time right now. Joining me right now from
her home in Nashville, Tennessee, Caitlin Bristow. Caitlin, thank you
so much for jumping on and joining me. Oh my gosh,
Chris Harrison, thank you for having me. I I want
to say, unfortunately, we are not holding up our podcast
(36:44):
tradition and sharing a few bottles of wine while we
do this, as we did the first time when I
was doing your podcast back at my house in Los Angeles. Um,
we need to get back to that tradition soon. But
I am at the home office in Austin. You're in Nashville,
So I'm gonna in it over to you. Yes, what
did you want to say? What were you hoping to
(37:06):
express in that interview? First of all, I hate headlines
so much because they never tell the full story. They
all it's always just you know how it is to
get people who just like believe one thing and then
they're not going to read the article. I mean, I'm
guilty of it. I read headlines all the time and go,
oh my god, and then I don't read the poll article. Um.
But in that in that interview, which I'm actually shocked
(37:29):
that it blew up like this because I feel like
I've talked about this before on my own podcast. But
what I was saying in it was not that you
ghosted me. I was just saying that you and I
were so close and when everything went down and then
I got this whatever you want to call it, role
of quote unquote mentoring because they didn't want to pay
(37:50):
me what they pay you to host. Uh. They that
I was like, oh my gosh, I need to talk
to Chris. That's that was my first reaction. I was like,
I have to talk to Chris. All the headlines again
are saying Caitlin and Tasia taking over Chris's job, and
I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold the phone. And
then obviously I was not thinking about what you could
(38:12):
be going through, So I'm only thinking about myself, going
he's not texting me back, he must hate me, He's
not saying anything to me, Like, obviously I did something wrong,
and I just, you know, went into a little self
pity party and decided to put the blame on you
for a minute. But what I was saying in the
interview was it's it wasn't about me. You were going
(38:33):
through so much at that time, and you probably didn't
even know what you wanted to say to me or
how to say it. And you're you're not like me.
You react with logic. I react with emotion. I was like, hello,
bombarding you with text messages. You weren't responding to me,
and I just needed to realize it wasn't about me
at that time. That's what I was trying to say,
(38:54):
And that's why I wanted to have you on because
you know, going back and forth based on clickbait headlines.
And I, for one know when you're on a podcast
and you say a lot, and you kind of say
things off the cuff, but when it's put in print,
it looks so different and it sounds so different, especially
when you line things up when you say, Caitlin Bristow,
(39:14):
you know, our our relationship went down the toilet and
I texted him ten times and he didn't respond, and well,
you're just kind of throwing these things out making a
grander point, but when you just put him in print,
it looked really bad. Because I'll back up and let
everybody in on on how this went down back in
the day. Was so you were right as all this
(39:36):
came out. You were on entertainment tonight and I knew that,
and so I called you that morning and we talked
a little bit, and you made the statements that you
were going to make, and we talked about that, and
I supported you and said, look, I totally understand do
what you gotta do, um that this doesn't affect us.
And then subsequently, Um you and TASTI were name aimed.
(40:00):
We hadn't talked after that, and then when you were
named a mentor again, we we will get into that part.
So you texted me after you got the mentorship and
the Tin time. By the way, when she says Tin texts,
seven of them were just that day and I'm not
going to read them to you. But it was, you know,
one of those things where she missed a word and
she's like, wait, I meant this and meant this. So
(40:22):
it wasn't like you were hammering me with text messages
of call me, call me, call me. It was really
this one strain of thoughts that came out on one
day and then a couple I think a week later
or so you said, hey, if you get a chance,
call me, um. And so there wasn't a ghosting um.
(40:43):
And I don't even know if you said I ghosted you,
but that was just clickbait. Yeah. So, but as far
as the ghosting thing goes, that wasn't the case at all.
And it had nothing, and I mean nothing to do
with you and Tasia hosting the show. It had to
do with the fact that I was going through something
extraordinary and it had really nothing to do and I
(41:04):
don't mean this in a condest anyway. I had nothing
to do with you or Tasha, And at that time
I needed people in my life, and I circled the
wagons with people that could be unconditionally loving and caring,
people that were reaching out saying, hey, Bud, how are
you are you okay? Checking on my kids, checking in
on Lauren, making sure she was okay, and you weren't
(41:29):
equipped to do that because of where you were in
all this. I don't know what, does that make sense? Yeah,
but yes it does. And I this is why talking
it out is so important, is because again, perception is
never the actual reality. And so to me, I was like,
I feel like I did reach out to you, and
(41:51):
then I feel like I did reach out to Lauren,
and I feel like I cared so much, but I
was also in such a weird position, and then I
understand that you were also into weird positions. So when
I didn't get text messages back, I was like, Okay,
it's just this is what it has to be. The
relationship obviously has to change. So then I feel like
(42:11):
I wanted to continue to reach out and check in
and talk, but then I felt like, well, I'm he's
not ready to talk to me, Like it was like
this weird thing that we should have just freaking jumped
on the phone and I know, And that's what I
was saying in that interview is now I know from
you know, the benefit of hindsight, I now know that
was nothing to do with me. That was nothing to
(42:31):
do with like you said, um, and you were in
a position where I totally understand. When you're going through
something like that, you have to really take a look
at your circle and who is who is in it,
and who's there for you and and who you know
cuts you out or doesn't talk to you. So I
get I totally get it well in the dynamic of
our relationship. It's not unlike many you know, look for
(42:55):
twenty years I've for bachelor's and bachelorettes. I was the
mentor somewhat of it, maybe a father figure where I
listened and I asked questions and I was all about
you in your life because that was my job. And
I cared and I took a lot of pride in that,
and that's that's how our relationships started. At this time,
(43:19):
I needed that flip of just the hey, how are
you like? Are you okay? Not? Not? Are you okay
with me taking the show? And you're irreplaceable? And I
I appreciated those words. I did, but it was just
at that time I wasn't. I didn't have the bandwidth
to deal with all of that, and I wasn't. And
(43:42):
by the way, I really and truly just wasn't worried
at all about who was hosting and who was the
next mentor and what the show was going to do.
I get that I was thinking of you, as Chris Harrison,
the host of the Bachelor franchise, worried about that. I wasn't,
and and I was thinking about our friends, but I
wasn't thinking about you as a human being and what
(44:02):
you might have been going through at that time. And
I think that's natural because that's how our relationship has
always been to a certain degree. I mean, it's it's
definitely evolved, as as wonderful relationships do. Um, but I
find I I find many of those relationships that have
started as the Bachelor Bacherette have kind of remained that
not one sided, but definitely more so. Yeah, just because
(44:26):
that's how it started. And I think some of you
kind of still look at me as that person that
you know. I remember my parents and now being a parent,
I get it, like my kids don't go hey, that
how are you doing? You know, what's going on in
your life? Tell me about you? And so when a
relationship starts like that, it takes a long time for
it to evolve out of that. Yeah, I never thought
(44:48):
about it like that, to be honest with you, which again,
I'm glad to hear that side of it because that's
so valid and so fair, and I never really thought
about it that way. Well, it was important to me
to have this conversation, and I wanted ever went to hear,
and I'm glad we didn't talk. And I told everybody
leading into our interview that you and I were trying
to talk. But Caitlin is the busiest woman in the world.
For four days, we've been exchanging text messages trying to
(45:10):
set up a phone call and then, honest to god, guys,
I got a text at three am this morning from
Caitlin saying, hey, sorry, I never called you. Um, I
will see you, you know, for this zoom that we're
doing for this podcast and my dear lord. So this
show is about relationships, it's about love, it's about communicating,
(45:31):
and it's important to me. And I thought, you know,
if I was younger and I saw maybe this click
bait headlines. I would have been like, you know, Caitlin
is dead to me or screw her or whatever. Instead
I saw it and correct me if I'm wrong. Not
as a cry for help, but I said, as a
cry for a lost friendship and something that she has
realized that she lost in her life that's changed, and
(45:53):
so she wasn't trying to shade me. It was a
cry for hey, I don't want to lose this, And
that's how I took it. Good. I'm glad you took
it that way because I have genuinely since that, since
that moment of not getting text back, have been like
grieving our friendship. Like I was like, oh my gosh,
I missed the days where I could call you at
(46:15):
any time or talk to you or like, I don't know,
I just I loved our friendship so much. And so yeah,
I feel like obviously I could have gone about that
in a much different way. But you know how podcasts
go now that your podcast, yeah, I know, well you do.
You get these interviews and you go into things and
aspects of it that you weren't expecting, and you just
start talking and you get pretty comfortable and you just
(46:37):
let it go. And and even the it doesn't take
much to crack that vault. But you know, even things
that came off awkward, like the meeting at Wells and
Sarah's wedding, I was so excited to see you guys,
Lauren and I. You know, honestly, the other thing I
can tell people's I talked to j a lot. I
talked to Jason. Um we talk a lot more than
(47:00):
I talked to you, because we you know, we also
text each other like dudes do about sports and stuff.
But I was so excited to see you guys at
the wedding, and it wasn't awkward at all. We came.
I was talking to Jason and you were talking to
somebody else, and then you walked over and joined us,
and I gave you a big hug, and it was
really sweet what you said. And it came off and
in print like it was awkward, and I want to
(47:22):
tell people it was not. When when you said to me, hey,
I miss you and I missed this, I it really
hit me in the heart. And I gave you a big,
long hug and we embraced for probably ten seconds too long.
And you know, I, I said, you know, I'm I'm
I've always been here. I'm always here for you, and
that's I didn't mean like, hey, I'm always here. It's
(47:43):
on you and that's when you see it in print.
That's how it came off, but it wasn't. You should
know that Caitlin and I were hugging, hugging, and I
didn't whisper in her ear, but I just said to her,
it's like, I'm always here. You know you haven't lost me?
Was my point to me the hug. I was like, oh,
got I genuinely like miss you. And when you said
(48:03):
I've always been here, that's when my brain went, no,
you haven't. You ignored me and you didn't text me back.
But again, we all know how I'm dramatic. That's why
you know you've seen it all too well. That was
how I respond. I respond always with emotion and I
wanted to be like but I didn't feel like you were.
But again I had to rel it in and know
(48:25):
that you didn't have to be You didn't have to
be there for me at that time. I should have
been more there for you, if anything, and I was
expecting you'd be there for me, and that was wrong.
I know, you were a little put off too during
that time because I had spoken to Tasia and it
came out that I had congratulated her. Well, the truth is,
(48:46):
Tasia and I were talking about something completely different, and
someone on the inside of production had let me know
that you guys were going to take over as mentors
um host whatever it was named. But someone on the
inside let me know that, which I appreciated, And while
I was talking to take you about something completely different,
(49:07):
I did mention to her. I was like, oh, hey,
by the way, I do know this because neither one
of you had reached out and said hey, because it
was awkward. Another one of you reached out and said, hey, Chris,
just know that they're talking to me about this. We're
gonna do this. So while I was on the phone
with her, I just brought it up myself and said,
just so you know, no hard feelings for you and Caitlin.
I am in no way angry. I'm in no way bitter.
(49:28):
I don't feel like you two stabbed me in the back.
I would not expect either one of you to say,
I love Chris, he's my friend. I'm turning down this job,
you know, Screw you. Knowing, well, they're just gonna go
get somebody else. Why would you turn down that opportunity
when this had nothing to do with you, That's all
I said to her. That's really fair. I feel like
(49:48):
in that time I wastly thinking about my own feelings
there um, I mean, and it was all because I
freaking love you, that's the that was all where the
stem um is because I don't want anyone because I have,
to a different extent, did not know what you were
going through because it is you know, it's uncomfortable. I'm
(50:11):
friends with I'm friends with you. Then I get this
role that I don't know what I'm doing, and it
all just was so uncomfortable, and I just didn't I
made it about me in that moment because I didn't
want you to be upset with me, not even thinking
I'm not even thinking, oh, he's actually going through something else.
He's not upset with me. This has nothing to do
(50:32):
with me. I didn't think that in the moment. Yeah,
And I didn't want to bring everybody else into that.
And as I said to you, you know, when we
talked on the phone as you were about to do
that entertainment tonight story, I said, look, you know, the
only thing I can do right now, like if you
speak up, if you say something and it's taken the
wrong way or whatever's like, you're just going to be
drug into this. And I was like, don't don't come
(50:53):
into this. Um and and as I, you know, save
yourself and just move on. And I did that out
of love, and I did that out of caring for everybody.
But the other thing is I as I as things
settled down and you guys were hosting the show, Um, yeah, A,
it was awkward and be where would I fit into that,
(51:15):
you know, calling you and Tasia. Honestly, what I would
have loved is for you two to have called me
during the negotiation and during when they were talking to you,
so I could have helped you like I normally would have.
You could have called and said, hey, this is because
oh my gosh, do you really think we would call
you to help us negotiate to that? You know, you
know I would have by the way I would have
(51:35):
told you guys, I know you would have. I would
have been like, hey, so hey, I'm taking your job
that you've had for twenty years. Um, I want this
to be totally normal, which clearly I did not do
a good job at because they were like, yeah, no,
well we're that was not on you, and it was
not on Tasha. It was not on either one of you. Well,
(51:57):
I'm glad we're finally getting this chance to talk, and
I want to push the pause button for the moment
because we're coming to the end of our time here
on this podcast. But there's so much more I want
to talk to you about about hosting The Bachelorette, what
that was like, all the emotions you went through, what
you thought about me in that moment, and what about
(52:20):
you and Jason, how are you doing? Are you planning
a wedding? I want to hear about all of it.
So this conversation will continue because we have a lot
more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on
Instagram at the most Dramatic pod ever, and make sure
to write us a review and leave us five stars.
I'll talk to you next time.
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Zima
Chris Harrison
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