October 19, 2025 • 42 mins
It’s Breast Cancer Awareness Month, and Dr. Stacie Stephenson talks about the non traditional, functional ways you can supplement treatment and improve your health. She also talks about the importance of gut health and the entire food group you should completely cut out of your diet to prevent disease.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome everyone to this edition of Amy and TJ. I
think most of you know that it's October and that
means it is Breast Cancer Awareness Month, and certainly we
have devoted some time talking about this very important time
of year. It's a reminder to women and men everywhere
to make sure they put their health first, to make
(00:23):
and keep those doctor's appointments, and certainly some of the
directives coming out of this month have changed and saved lives.
Present party included, I absolutely credit this month to saving
my life and for me actually being here because I
got my mammogram on October first, twelve years ago, which
led to a breast cancer diagnosis, and I am thankfully
(00:46):
right now cancer free, and I attribute that to the
awareness that this month raises. Our next guest is a
huge proponent of not just being in the cancer field,
but absolutely empowering men and women everywhere in preventative ways
and certainly in the care of the cancer regimen, maybe
(01:08):
outside of normal or your typical physician led way where
she actually has done the research. She has walked the
walk to figure out how to give all sorts of
types of care to folks who are walking down that road.
Her name is doctor Stacy Stevenson. She is an internationally
(01:29):
recognized physician, a best selling author, and a leader in
what I didn't really know this term, functional and integrative medicine.
Doctor Stacy, thank you for being with us today.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I am really really happy to be here. Your story
is so inspiring. And twelve years later, I don't know
if anybody could hear me, I was back here screaming
and clapping, but I didn't want to talk too much
over you, but I was clapping. Twelve years that's just
fabulous and cheers to one hundred more for you.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Thank you, doctor Stacey. And TJ has been a huge
part of being It's taught to be the care giver
or at least the support of partner along the way
in some of these And when you get to cancer
diagnosis isn't just for a year or for a few
months while you're being treated. It is a lifetime. And
(02:20):
so I know you focus on that as well, because
everyone in the house.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Is impacted, well everyone. I don't know if TJ wants
to comment on that, but I bet he would say
everyone is impacted in the house. Just any type of
illness impacts your entire family, right any big dietary change,
any type of disease, from mental health to any forms
of physical health truly impact the entire family. But I'd
(02:45):
love to hear TJ's position, But personally, what we hear
the most in our families that we work with is
that it's just absolutely terrifying for the caregivers because there's
just a true out of control, feeling no control, don't
know what tomorrow is going to bring. You want to
be strong, You want to be there for your partner,
(03:07):
your brother, your sister, your mom, dad, whomever, and you
kind of have to carry the entire burden, it feels like,
all by yourself so that the person who's suffering can
be their absolute best. What was your experience, TJ?
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Well, no, this is all I didn't go through it, right.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
I only been together now three plus years, so I
didn't go through some of that stuff A lot of.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Family members do.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
So I'm here and thinks they're smiling, it's going to
check up every six months and got a cansroversary to celebrate.
So I certainly wouldn't put myself in some of the
categories of a lot of families. When you made me
think of something, here do you find often that it
is a family member or a friend that ends up
being the one who encourages someone to get into that
(03:53):
Mamma Van to get into the doctor for the screenings.
Or is this something where a lot of women now
know to take it up on themselves and they take
responsibility for their health on this one, you.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Know what, I think October? You bring up October has
just really increased awareness, just like we hoped it would,
And women in general have this white hot spotlight on
cancer in general, which then spreads into the rest of
the family, which I think is wonderful. They are parts
of me at sometimes that think, Okay, it's not just
(04:25):
about breast cancer in October, although I love that celebrating women,
It's also about cancer prevention. I think about prostate cancer
hand in hand with breast cancer. But your question is
a very good one. Do I think women are taking
it upon themselves or do I think we've done a
good job of our campaigning. I think it's all of
the above. It very commonly is a friend or family
(04:46):
member that really encourages people. Physicians have become much more
intentional and intensive about making sure people get their screenings.
We have improved accessibility, and that is Norman enormous access
in general has improved across the world and in all
(05:06):
different cultures. Getting early detection used to be very much
a Western medicine construct. In other words, the United States,
North America, you know, Western Europe was more advanced in
getting screenings. Other countries around the world with sort of
lesser lesser economic power, were just waiting for people to
become symptomatic. More commonly, they weren't getting their screenings. With
(05:29):
the advent of mammograms getting cheaper and cheaper and cheaper
and more available and more available in this sprawl out
into all communities, all cultures throughout the world, and the
education has improved immensely for prevention, and candidly that prevention
is critical in those underserved communities and the you know,
(05:51):
the communities internationally that have less economic power, it's even
more critical to get screening because the treatment will be
less invasive when the person, when the lady needs the treatment,
it will be easier to access because the woman won't
need secondary and tertiary centers, which'll be able to be
treated closer to home. So everybody wins with early detection
(06:14):
and prevention no matter what your economic status, no matter
what your age, no matter where you live, and mammograms
are a key that has unlocked that because the entire
international healthcare community has done a really good job of
spreading that word, and then we focus it intensely in
(06:34):
October and you know, campaign to grab your mom, grab
your sister, grab your friend, you know, go get your screenings.
And I think it's been just a compilation of a
decade of intensive health focus on this matter. And it
has been women leading the charge originally, but I think
everybody's gotten on it over time. Who doesn't have a
(06:58):
mom's sister and friends. I mean, you know, we're fifty
to fifty ladies and mass We're all in it.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I'm curious, babe, because having been with me now for
three years and seeing my focus and my concerns sometimes
when little things get scary in a way that they
wouldn't have otherwise had I not had cancer, Have you
taken your health more seriously? Have you been more willing
(07:27):
to make those doctor's appointments, to get the blood work done,
to focus on your diet. Has it changed anything for
you just to see?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
No, because I will have its dire at the end
of the day, I'm still to do.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
And if it ain't doctor, you know this, If it
ain't broken, ain't bleeding, I ain't going to the doctor.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Is that fairly simple?
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Even though I'm forty eight and pretty healthy, I haven't
had any major issues to put me on edge. I
don't want to have one. But your question, no, not really?
Do you find doctor still in the family front here
for a second, do you find that some family members
end up getting sick? I mean finding themselves that they're
(08:05):
not taking care of themselves doesn't mean they at least
to something like cancer. But do we have to be careful?
Would you give that warning to a lot of family members?
Make sure during these times you also are taking care
of yourself as you're trying to focus on the health
of your love, the one who has just been diagnosed.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Possibly, oh absolutely critically. And now I'm gonna I'm gonna
slightly yell at you to go start getting all of
your screenings doing it.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So, yes, I mean, really, it's telling doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
You have to give a carot, you know, he has
to treat, he has to have a motivation. I don't know,
Maybe it's a bottle of line. I don't know. Yeah,
definitely give a treat, have to give a little sweet
with this hour. But that being said, yes, family members
are at great risk because they are taking on the stress.
They are maybe managing the appointments, taking care of transportation,
(08:56):
worried about finances. We haven't even talked about finances during
a cancer diagnosis. Most many, many times household income drops
dramatically or is affected dramatically throughout cancer treatment and cancer recovery.
That affects the person who is bringing home the finances
to the family immensely, and that sets that person up
for typically more chronic type illnesses, autoimm illnesses, obesity, diabetes,
(09:22):
cardiac disease. And remember these are hitting families oftentimes. Whereas
you might have been susceptible amy to breast cancer, well,
your partner at the time or a caretaker or a
family member, that person might have been more susceptible to diabetes,
for example, And due to all of that stress and
not eating well and not taking care of themselves. Oops,
(09:43):
two years after your cancer diagnosis, that person now has
a chronic disease that we see incredibly commonly, and you
can track it pretty It's pretty clear to track stress.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
A lot of time right, Yeah, Yeah, you're stressed, and
you just go for what makes you feel good at
the time, not necessarily what's good for you to be doing.
You have spent much of your career focusing on the
root causes of these types of diseases, not just cancer,
but certainly cancer included not just treating the symptoms and
dealing with the treatment, but actually trying to figure out
(10:20):
what we all can do better.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
And I know.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
We have changed our diet TJ and I. We have
lowered our alcohol intake, we have done things that we
have been well. We've been deliberate about those choices given
all that we know now. But people talk about superfoods,
and they talk about gut health, and they talk there
are all of these other factors that you don't necessarily
hear about when you go to get your physical or
(10:44):
you go to your oncologist. But you have really focused
on those aspects of medicine that we don't hear enough
about it. And there are so many different competing views
it's hard to know what's true and what's not. Are
there go to things you can be eat that you
can be putting into your diet that can absolutely improve
your overall health. And prevent diseases like cancer.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Well, simple answer is yes, and I know that's probably
I don't know if that's the answer people want to
hear or not hear. But we are setting ourselves up
from the environmental exposures, from the nutritional exposures, from the
stress exposures, from the sugar, from the additives, from the
toxicity that is triggering our genome for sure, to express
(11:28):
these cancers at a much higher rate. Breast cancer rates
have gone up, unfortunately. Luckily though, survival rates have also
gone up. But I deeply believe that the rates of
overall cases are increasing for two reasons. One is the
detection that we were talking about. Hands down, we're detecting
more cases earlier. You can't ignore that. But step two
(11:51):
is we are increasingly having a poorer quality of food.
We have poor soil quality, We are nutritionally less and
less capable. Our macronutrient balance has been all over the map,
as you pointed out, from eat all carbohydrates to no
only eight fats to oh no, be a carnivore diet.
My god, I mean it just I could side here
(12:12):
for hours and do myth versus fact with you guys
on diets, but I think what and so that has
all become additive. Simple vitamin D deficiencies that are really
intense in the population, which sounds very surprising, trigger and
stimulate forms of cancer. Breast being one vitamin D is
critical in the prevention of prostate cancer as well. These
(12:35):
are vitamins that are also critical during the phase of
treating cancers as well. So there are some critical critical
nutrients that we are very aware. Magnesium, zinc, the trace
minerals are critical in both prevention and whilst we're being
treated both. I think most of the time it's oh,
(12:55):
my god, Doc, like, what diet should I do on
a regular daily basis that I that I can maintain.
Don't give me some crazy diet that's unrealistic. And the
best thing I could say there is my dream for
everybody would be more or less a gluten free dairy free.
I have my reasons for that. It doesn't mean you're
(13:16):
gluten sensitive necessarily, but there are a lot of reasons
that relate to that carbohydrate balance and also the the
the basically the genetic poor quality of the wheat that
we eat in this country. However, the eating things that
come from the ground like eating real food. Like if
(13:36):
I actually, you know what, if I could boil down
one piece, it would just say as little process food
as you possibly can. You know, it's kind of like
your mom said, eat your fruits, eat your vegetables, eat
the lean meats. Be smart. Quit eating the sugar. You know,
Cut the alcohol. Sorry, no, you guys have cut the alcohol.
(13:58):
That's right. It doesn't have to be to zero. Don't
be extreme. Don't be tempted by any of the super
extreme diets I mentioned one, you know, the carnivore concept.
A lot of them are just remixtures of diets that
have been around for a long time. Anyway, there's basically
no new news in our physiology, our biochemistry, or the
(14:19):
diet of human beings. There are new ways to package
it and make it sound sexy or interesting or new
or trendy or a fad. We haven't really learned anything
massively earth shattering about the need for your diet and
nutrition in a very long time. We just have to
keep teaching each other how to implement it. So I
(14:45):
don't like a lot of cow dairy in the diet
that much. I can say. People hate to hear that,
because everybody likes their cheese and it's easy, and most
women say, oh, but cottage cheese has protein, and Swiss
cheese has protein. And I like my yogurt and things
like this, but that is saturated animal fat also, so
(15:06):
I would I would limit my dairy. Uh, it doesn't
have to be zero, but that would be a favorite.
Remembering too that many dairy products are highly processed, so
the more you get out of the ground. You mentioned superfoods,
those are some of the faves. Some of them are
kind of hard to eat. I don't know how much
kale you can eat, but if you can do it,
do it. I do. And you know what another thing
(15:29):
about food, like I don't like all the superfoods and
foods that I recommend and that I eat. I admit it.
I don't like it all. I just do it. Like
are we grown ups? Just like I don't know, hold
your nose eat the broccoli. I don't know. I mean, really,
(15:52):
I didn't grow up on fish. I grew up in
the Midwest. We didn't eat a bunch. Yeah, I didn't
eat a bunch of salmon.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
I have struggled with that, but I'd love that. You
just guess I grew up in the Midwest, moved stuff.
But yes, my whole all my family is from right
around where you are, and we did not grow up
with seafood. And I have struggled with that. And I
watched TJ just devour seafood and I'm jealous because it's
hard for me.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, you can train your palette. We can. Adults have to. Literally,
I mean I've sat in front of patients a million
times and in the Midwest and their idea and this
is no disrespect. Okay. I grew up on like fish sticks,
do you remember that? Yeah, what I thought was fish
like in the box with the sticks fishmen.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yes, Catholic. On Fridays, I went to the Catholic school
elementary school. We had fish stick Fridays, and I think
it continuded to my dislike of seafood.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
That's so funny. And then I feel like, I don't know,
maybe once in a while, like bass from the lake
or something like that, Right, people fished and I didn't
know what you didn't know what the heck you were eating,
and kids don't like that stuff in But as a
grown up, just train your palette, and sometimes you're not
gonna like it all, Like I've taught myself how to
(17:09):
how to I may not love it, but how to
eat those quality fatty fishes. They're really really critical. They're
also really critical for your brain. That's got invatory. They're
incredibly important for your brain. All right, got a question,
(17:34):
I see it.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Yeah, you got to help me here, And well, I
know habits, bad habits are very very hard to break,
even though they're very easy to make. But you're sounding
like that so much resistance that people taking care of
their own health is simply I don't like how that
food tastes.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Are you?
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Really do you find so much resistance as someone taking
care of themselves? Is that that argument? It doesn't sound
like one to be sympathetic to, like, Okay, you want
to be like this and risk a heart attack just
because you don't like asparagus?
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Right?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
That kind of thing? Is that?
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Really a massive challenge is getting people to get out
of a habit of just eating bad stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Have you looked to do it? Have you seen the
rate of obesity in our country?
Speaker 4 (18:22):
But Doc, we're told oftentimes that folks can't help it
because of this, they have this health problem, this health problem.
I often find that in the conversation. We're trying to
be sensitive, and I understand that, but so much often
is the responsibility is not lying at the feet of
that person who might be unhealthy. It's something else going on.
(18:45):
So I'm asking you, as a doctor, when you're in
that room with them, is it really sometimes that simple?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
You can't get people to change something.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
As simple as what you put in your mouth.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
It's true, change is hard. These are ingrained habits. These
are habits that we grew up with. It tastes good,
it provides you pleasure and enjoyment. Also cost right, also
eat or speed you're shopping quickly, you don't have time
to go to the farmer's market. I'm telling you behind doors,
(19:20):
when you're when you're really speaking one on one to
a human being who's trying to change their health. No,
they don't just say okay, Doc, give me the list,
I'll eat all that stuff, great, no problem, then they
walk out the door. No, it's a successive approximation and
gradual learning. They need help, they need coaching. They know
you're kind of saying, come on, doctor, Stacy, why do
(19:41):
we need a clinical nutritionist or a functional medicine doctor
when we know to eat our broccoli. We know to
eat our kale, and we know to eat lean meats.
People do know. I think they know, they know the basics.
Most people know some base line, you know, fresh fruits
and vegetables. They want to know other specifics like what
oils should I cook with? That one's kind of complex
and confusing. What meats our best? That one, I think
(20:03):
is a little complex for people. What nutrients are in
what foods? Those are a little more sciencey and you
sort of need to teach. But you're just asking that
core basic diet. Is it hard to change? Yes, Your
palate becomes a custom you become accustomed to where creatures
of habit. We buy the same things at the store,
(20:24):
We do the same routine. Everybody's busy. You want to
buy a lot of processed food and a lot of
frozen foods. So really, what I'm saying about eating true
fresh things that come from the ground as nature intended,
I'm asking you not to buy things in boxes. That's
really hard. I think that's really hard for average Americans.
(20:44):
Look at the carts, right, what are people put in
their carts? Look around the store next tide when you
go and just running it now you guys might just
do the more usual, the smarter thing, which is to
shop more frequently.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
What we do we do.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
There's nothing a freezer, nothing except for ice.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
That's awesome. So here, look in your pantry, if you
and look in your freezer. Those are the two. Like
if I did a television show, you know what I
would do, I would like raid people's houses and go
go let them, let me open their refrigerator and their freezer,
and let me open their pantry.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I've watched that show. Because so if you what would
you throw out in someone's refrigerator? What would you throw out?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Well, I would get rid of a lot. I mean,
it's the pantry that I'm more worried about. The refrigerator
would sort of yeah, it's the pantry that I'm more
worried about. It's the crackers and the cookies and the breads,
and the box foods and the box meals that they're
going to mix with something, the packets of things that
have all the chemicals that they're going to mix with
the meat or maybe whatever. I don't even know some
(21:50):
of that stuff anymore. Refrigerator is more of a telltale
from a you know that one. I just want to
see if there's fresh I want to see if there's
actually if there are actually fresh fruits and vegetables in there.
You sodas, I mean, that's where you're gonna put the sodas.
(22:11):
That's whe're gonna put all the the additives and the condiments,
and depending which you know, which ones are good and
which ones are not so great, that's where you're gonna
stuff all the pickles. I don't know, you know, just
I don't know any quick grab kind of things. But
there can be good things in the refrigerator as well.
But and the freezer too. Part of what I would
be looking at is how old things are. Yeah, people
(22:34):
leave stuff in their fridge that couldn't be eaten.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
You put it in a way, and I think it
helped me and maybe helped a lot of other people.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
When you see it from the perspective you just gave
as a doctor, as not someone who is medically necessarily
going to help you lose weight. You all are counselors.
You counsel people through what they need to be doing.
I think looking at it that way versus I think
a lot of people do. Think a person who's having
a weight prop goes to a doctor, give me the medicine,
help me lose the weight. And certainly in this day
and time, people are taking injections and losing weight. So
(23:11):
thank you. You put that in a way that makes
it make more sense of how maybe we should be
viewing doctors as counselors.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Especially who are helping people on this. So thank you.
That makes perfect sense to me.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
You're welcome. That's what we all thought we were in
school for, and then unfortunately we all learned that we
really weren't in school to learn how to truly take
care of people. I can remember the moment. I can
remember the moment in medical school where I went, oh,
crime many and you sort of look around the room
and you know, you're all there thinking you're going to
take care of people. And I asked a question about
(23:43):
nutrition and it was a very softball question. It wasn't
something radical, and I got the doctor because they're calling
you doctor before your doctor. We are here to learn
about pharmaceuticals and surgery. That is what will be in
your toolkit. And I just remember thinking, oh, okay, here
(24:05):
we go. And you know what that does. It chills you.
It puts us silence over your thoughts of what if, well,
what else aren't I supposed to? Aren't I here just
to help human beings in whatever tools we have. I
mean I remember walking in and feeling it did it
really matter what we were going to offer people, as
(24:26):
long as it was what worked and what they needed
and what helped them. You are very correct. You take
me down another road and we're on breast cancer today.
But we don't have enough time in the healthcare system
to counsel, as you just stated, we should have more time.
That is our job, because I believe most human beings
(24:48):
intuitively understand their health. They understand a lot of what's
going on. They do a lot of reading their bodies.
Are very intelligent beings, and they just need the extra help.
And it takes a little bit of time, and it
takes tailoring to your individual needs and those quiet conversations
like when you were sort of shocked about the asparagus.
(25:10):
They're only gonna tell me that, probably like a one
on one private moment, right, They're not going to tell
me some of the embarrassing things like doc, like they're
not gonna tell all their friends they're confused what fish
to eat, or I hate asparagus or I mean, I've
got people that eat baby food. There's all kinds of
food disorders out there, and they only really bubble up
(25:33):
when you're in a very when they're safe, when people
are safe to speak about it. And speaking of that
includes these breast cancer screenings. And I was curious, Amy,
you felt you'd waited too long to do your screening,
but you were only forty. Did you sense that you
had low risk?
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Oh? Absolutely so. I had been given my prescription to
get a mammogram when I was thirty nine by my obgyn,
and they had just changed that time the recommendations to
fifty if you had no family history. I have a
very large family. My mom's one of nine, my dad's
one of six zero breast cancer diagnoses in my family
(26:15):
at that point. So it was completely the last thing
on my mind. So I deliberately threw away my prescription.
I lost it and I couldn't find it, and said, eh,
I'll do it in ten years. And if I hadn't
been given the assignment for work, I would not have
gotten a mammogram period. I felt like I was perfectly healthy,
look and I did not eat well. I will be
(26:35):
fully honest, I just always happened to be naturally thin.
I worked out, and I felt like I could eat
what I wanted, and I didn't have good habits. And
it wasn't until later after my treatment was done where
I was feeling scared and secure and fragile, like what
else could I should I be doing? But no one,
I have to be honest, and I had great care
(26:56):
and amazing doctors, but no one is focused on your nutrition.
Known is focused on what you're putting in your body.
They're focused on putting chemo in you and other drugs
and medicines that I'm grateful for that help me get
me to where I am now. But there was no
discussion about food. I heard drink less. But short of that,
we really don't talk to cancer patients or frankly, most
(27:21):
people don't get a full understanding when they go in
for their annual, if they even go in for their annual,
about what to eat and what not to eat, And
so I'm just always so fascinated that wouldn't that be
one of the major focuses. You would think, what's the
one thing we can all do that we have total
control over, And that's what we consume how we fuel
(27:41):
our bodies.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Well, you just stated my entire profession that is one
of the very few things that we have control over
what we actually put in our mouth. And you also
were just making me giggle inside because I was thinking
to myself, do you guys have pets, dog, cats, whatever?
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yes? Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
When you take your dog to the vet and they're
sick and mystery sickness, let's say I personally, in my experience,
the first thing the vet asks you, it's what are
they eating? That's true, the first question short of that
they're bleeding or something, you know, trauma. But if it's
this mystery illness, what are you feeding your puppy? What
(28:25):
are you feeding your dog? It's the first thing we
talk about with an infant who can't speak with us. Right,
are they eating? Are they eat are they digesting? Well?
Are they going to the bathroom? Are they doing this?
Are they doing that? Or how long does it take
them to eat? Same thing with the puppy or the dog.
But you go into a person physician and I don't
what is the first question, where's your insurance card? Basically
(28:48):
I don't know. Let's the wallet biopsy as we call it.
But I'm giving I'm giving you a little the darker
side of medicine here. And then the second question, and
it's sort of like, why are you here right? What
what brought you in today? And that's fine, that's a
that's a lovely first. That is what we should ask
you. You know, what were you thinking about that brought you
(29:10):
in to see us today. That's that's a very open
ended question. You're going to share what's going on for you,
but almost never in that entire conversation. Are you going
to get what are you eating? Tell me about your digestion?
I mean you might, you could be with a gas
cerentrologist and things like this. But I'm being funny because
it's it really should be the number one. Are you sleeping?
(29:33):
What are you eating? How are you feeling? What brings
you in today? What's your stress level? That's what I
want to know first out of the gate, short of
your you're not bleeding? You know, That's what's all different question.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And I know that you are a part of some
cutting edge studies that you are a part of in
terms of cancer research. One of them involves prebiotic fiber
and uchinia treatments. Others acupuncture along with chemotherapy that prevents
(30:12):
nerve damage with early stage brest cancer patients. I mean,
these are things that you know, we have to as
patients go try to find on the internet. But there
is I have not seen or heard from someone who
there are some holistic approaches to cancer, but it's it's
few and far between, and so you are actually finding
(30:32):
some real connections between some non traditional medicines and treating cancers.
We are where are we field? But we don't have enough.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
We don't have enough. It's a complicated terrain because a
lot of it is in the field that I like
to call wisdom medicine, or that's kind of the wisdom
that's been passed down through the ages from family member
to family member, friend to friend to friend, and some
of them are extremely value Integrative cancer research is complicated
because it breaks down into several realms more or less.
(31:08):
In decades past, it's kind of been the last ditch
efforts that people often win to other countries to find
other treatments. It wasn't terribly safe, you didn't necessarily know
what it was. I actually worked with an organization called
the Gateway for Cancer Research that we specifically seek out
integrative medicine cancer oriented treatments, and we also do traditional
(31:33):
at the bedside clinical phase one treatment. So we try
to balance about seventy percent traditional therapies that we fund,
but we still want them to be extremely avant garde.
We want to fund therapies that typically would not get
funded even when they're say a chemotherapy or a surgery
or a radiation or a device. But we apply thirty
percent of our funds in search and finding integrative oriented
(31:57):
cancer trials. And that can be for the treatment of
the primary disease, that can be to ease the side
effects of treatment of the primary disease. Those therapies could
be something that we're trying to prevent a recurrence. And honestly,
you know what, I feel, integrative therapies really shine in
(32:19):
secondary prevention, meaning your case amy you don't want to
get where you were again. The reason I think those
therapies really shine post treatment is when you're deep in
your original treatment, you really have to focus right. You're
going through a lot. It could be surgery, it could
be radiation. You're thinking about a lot of things. It's
(32:40):
not easy to add complex therapies on top of that.
We can add what I call adjunctive that ease you're suffering,
ease your pain, help your body tolerate the treatments, and
here are some examples. Vitamin C is just I consider
it almost magic. So one of the studies we worked
on was pre treading vitamin C before chemotherapy. Loading up
(33:03):
vitamin C IV before your chemotherapy treatment will ease the
chemotherapy side effects a whole heck of a lot like
it is game changing, transformational, never heard that before. That's
a really really critical one we do. We are utilizing
acupuncture and studying acupuncture as well for neuropathy, which, as
(33:24):
you know, is a common side effect post radiation for
alt forms of cancers, but particularly breast cancer. It's a
real bugaboo and utilizing acupuncture, but we could utilize acupuncture
also for pain management. We could utilize it for stimulating
those nerves to bring them back to life. Essentially, that's
what neuropathy means, sort of the death of the small nerves,
and we can utilize acupunctures to stimulate the improvement and
(33:48):
health of those nerves. Candidly, it's been around for four
or five thousand years. Acupuncture, well, you know it's sometimes
I'm like, why do I why do we have to
study this? Why don't we just do it?
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Like?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Are we hurting anybody? It's not that expensive, we know
how to do it, we know how it works. But
everybody likes to study. Everybody likes research, and it's my field.
I know. That's why I can make fun of it. So, yes,
we do have acupuncture trials going on as well. We
have evaluations in trace minerals like copper that relates to
(34:21):
we've found copper depletions in triple negative breast cancers, so
we've learned that the lower copper values can actually trigger
those cancers to occur. And that goes back to the soil.
You mentioned another one. We said ac vitamin C, prebiotic
fiber was another. Not just I just just mind your microbiome.
(34:45):
Let's like, do ten shows on that? Sorry? Ten shows
on your microbiome. I just have to say, mind your
microbiome in your health in general. For cancer, it's extremely
critical as well, because that is your immune system that
is protecting and stimulating eighty percent of the immune function
in your body. We would be insane to not protect
(35:06):
our microbiome in cancer prevention. During cancer treatment and for
prevention of secondary occurrence.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Doctor Sacy. In terms of that, what is there one
thing or two things that you should everyone should add
into their diet, whether you're a cancer patient, survivor or not,
that contributes to gut health.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
You know, I think an easy thing if you just
want to go, okay, I'm going to do this, I'm
going to give you two and that is take a
fiber supplement. It tastes grows sorry, sorry TJ. They don't
taste very good. Just hold your nose, okay, But anyway,
take a fiber. You can take them in pills too.
By the way, you don't have to drink them, but
it's nice to drink them because you get the hydration.
(35:46):
So I'm a fan of any vitamin A nutrient that
is in a liquid. I love liquids, I love shakes,
I love drinks. I love powders that are in water
because guess what, you get the water too. Because I'm
somebody that doesn't get that thirsty get to drink. With
all my knowledge and all that I work in this,
I have to force myself to make sure and get
that water in as well. So taking my nutrients or
(36:10):
vitamins or amino acids or fiber or even a powdered
vitamin C in a liquid helps me because then I
get two focuses, right, I'm doing the nutrients and the
second one is I really do support taking probiotics. These days,
it doesn't have to be all that complicated. You can
take a basic, fairly inexpensive Acidophilus ambifitous general broad spectrum probiotic.
(36:34):
They're not that expensive. There was a time where I
had to be really really specific with the prescribing of
one for like your general health. We really don't need
to be quite as specific anymore. It's grown so much.
The availability is safer. It's you know, I could give
you fifteen brands that I support, but really getting it
(36:58):
down is really really important. And choose something that is
well decently within your budget at a quality type store,
and you'll do okay on the On the probiotic, I'm
a big probiotic fan. Those are those are critical. It's
just really hard to get those things in your food anymore.
I don't want to age myself, but you know, twenty
(37:18):
years ago I might have worked with you a little
more to get it all in your diet. I might
if you like came to me and you were one
of those people that went, oh, Doc, I don't want
to take any vitamins. That's stupid, and people do. I
want to get it from my food, and I just
I just really want to do it that way. Can't
you get vitamins from your food? And I go, yeah,
you can. It's really hard anymore, and you're gonna have
(37:41):
to work really hard at it. So I would take
the easy route guarantee. I mean, you want your food quality,
do your best, but guess what the vitamins, the nutrients,
the fiber that I mentioned, the taking your your probiotics
to inhabit your microbiome insurance policy, that just layers on
(38:03):
the guarantee. I mean I eat very well and I
still take all the nutrients.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
That's good to hear. We had someone once tell us
that it just makes for expensive p so.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I know everybody says that, and oh god, it drives
me crazy. Like if you said to me, Doc, I
only have fifty dollars a month for spare for my vitamins.
That's my budget, I could do it. I could give
you the really like type that's not very much. I mean,
(38:36):
that's tough. That's tough. We're probably in a multi vitamin
and an EPA, DHA and maybe a probiotic. That probably
is about what you could do. But by the way,
I would still do it. Do you eliminate vitamins in
your urine? Yes? Of course, you use what you can
use and you eliminate the rest. Same with your food.
(38:58):
I don't know. I love I don't know.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
No, I appreciate it. I love this empowerment and the
fact that you can because I always felt like I
was cheating by taking a supplements that it's very cool
to hear. I want to make sure we get in.
This is our last question for you. You have. This
is people are going to be listening to this while
your gala is probably in full swing here, but your
thirty fourth Annual Cures Gala this weekend in Illinois, and
(39:25):
you spotlight the urgency of patient centered cancer research. Why
is this such an important weekend for you? And just
give us a sense of of what you hope to accomplish.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Well, thank you for letting me talk about that for
a moment. We are we're upcoming this weekend for our
one of our two largest annual fundraisers. We like to
do it in the month of October. We raise funds
for phase one clinical cancer care trials and what that
means is they go directly to the bedside. We are
an organization that funds directly from a trial to a
(39:59):
human The trials have to be ready to go to
a human being and they are just awaiting funding. Other
types of organizations fund earlier phases. We are at that
spot where the person desperately needs the treatment. This is
probably their last resort, and we are scouring and taking
in applications every single day from researchers internationally actually and
(40:23):
looking to fund the best and the brightest that we
can possibly find that have patients available and ready to
have their treatment. And that takes money, and that's what
we'll be doing this weekend and hopefully bringing in as
much as we possibly can. Fundraising, of course goes on
all the time, but events create this wonderful space where
we can highlight a patient who's received our care. We
(40:45):
will be talking and bringing in a patient of ours
that's received life changing care and he will be sharing
his story. It brings people together. We all share in
that one cause. I really deeply believe in that community
aspect of funding, it's very critical. Certainly you can fundraise
without getting together, but it's a whole heck of a
lot more meaningful when you see survivors, family members, people
(41:10):
that have received care, donors that want to fund the care.
Bringing them all together in one cause is what we'll
be doing this weekend.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Well, doctor Stacy Stevenson, thank you for all that you do.
We appreciate I loved your frank talk too, by the way,
it was wonderful to hear just speaking like the rest
of us do. I understood everything you said.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
I tried not to do too much jargon.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
No, but a lot of this is empowering. You know,
we can talk personal responsibility, but it's also empowering. And
the research you're doing is having a real life impact
on folks feeling like they can do something to do better,
to be better, to live better, and to feel stronger.
So thank you. We wish you the best in your
fundraising efforts this weekend, and really appreciate you being on
(42:00):
the podcast with us.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Thank you, nice meeting you. Congratulations. I should have said
that at the top I heard the fabulous news and
a beautiful ring. I'm a yellow I'm a yellow diamond
girl too. Thank you job, good job, TJ, good job.
Thank you, thank you.
Welcome everyone to this edition of Amy and TJ. I
think most of you know that it's October and that
means it is Breast Cancer Awareness Month, and certainly we
have devoted some time talking about this very important time
of year. It's a reminder to women and men everywhere
to make sure they put their health first, to make
(00:23):
and keep those doctor's appointments, and certainly some of the
directives coming out of this month have changed and saved lives.
Present party included, I absolutely credit this month to saving
my life and for me actually being here because I
got my mammogram on October first, twelve years ago, which
led to a breast cancer diagnosis, and I am thankfully
(00:46):
right now cancer free, and I attribute that to the
awareness that this month raises. Our next guest is a
huge proponent of not just being in the cancer field,
but absolutely empowering men and women everywhere in preventative ways
and certainly in the care of the cancer regimen, maybe
(01:08):
outside of normal or your typical physician led way where
she actually has done the research. She has walked the
walk to figure out how to give all sorts of
types of care to folks who are walking down that road.
Her name is doctor Stacy Stevenson. She is an internationally
(01:29):
recognized physician, a best selling author, and a leader in
what I didn't really know this term, functional and integrative medicine.
Doctor Stacy, thank you for being with us today.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I am really really happy to be here. Your story
is so inspiring. And twelve years later, I don't know
if anybody could hear me, I was back here screaming
and clapping, but I didn't want to talk too much
over you, but I was clapping. Twelve years that's just
fabulous and cheers to one hundred more for you.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Thank you, doctor Stacey. And TJ has been a huge
part of being It's taught to be the care giver
or at least the support of partner along the way
in some of these And when you get to cancer
diagnosis isn't just for a year or for a few
months while you're being treated. It is a lifetime. And
(02:20):
so I know you focus on that as well, because
everyone in the house.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Is impacted, well everyone. I don't know if TJ wants
to comment on that, but I bet he would say
everyone is impacted in the house. Just any type of
illness impacts your entire family, right any big dietary change,
any type of disease, from mental health to any forms
of physical health truly impact the entire family. But I'd
(02:45):
love to hear TJ's position, But personally, what we hear
the most in our families that we work with is
that it's just absolutely terrifying for the caregivers because there's
just a true out of control, feeling no control, don't
know what tomorrow is going to bring. You want to
be strong, You want to be there for your partner,
(03:07):
your brother, your sister, your mom, dad, whomever, and you
kind of have to carry the entire burden, it feels like,
all by yourself so that the person who's suffering can
be their absolute best. What was your experience, TJ?
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Well, no, this is all I didn't go through it, right.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
I only been together now three plus years, so I
didn't go through some of that stuff A lot of.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Family members do.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
So I'm here and thinks they're smiling, it's going to
check up every six months and got a cansroversary to celebrate.
So I certainly wouldn't put myself in some of the
categories of a lot of families. When you made me
think of something, here do you find often that it
is a family member or a friend that ends up
being the one who encourages someone to get into that
(03:53):
Mamma Van to get into the doctor for the screenings.
Or is this something where a lot of women now
know to take it up on themselves and they take
responsibility for their health on this one, you.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Know what, I think October? You bring up October has
just really increased awareness, just like we hoped it would,
And women in general have this white hot spotlight on
cancer in general, which then spreads into the rest of
the family, which I think is wonderful. They are parts
of me at sometimes that think, Okay, it's not just
(04:25):
about breast cancer in October, although I love that celebrating women,
It's also about cancer prevention. I think about prostate cancer
hand in hand with breast cancer. But your question is
a very good one. Do I think women are taking
it upon themselves or do I think we've done a
good job of our campaigning. I think it's all of
the above. It very commonly is a friend or family
(04:46):
member that really encourages people. Physicians have become much more
intentional and intensive about making sure people get their screenings.
We have improved accessibility, and that is Norman enormous access
in general has improved across the world and in all
(05:06):
different cultures. Getting early detection used to be very much
a Western medicine construct. In other words, the United States,
North America, you know, Western Europe was more advanced in
getting screenings. Other countries around the world with sort of
lesser lesser economic power, were just waiting for people to
become symptomatic. More commonly, they weren't getting their screenings. With
(05:29):
the advent of mammograms getting cheaper and cheaper and cheaper
and more available and more available in this sprawl out
into all communities, all cultures throughout the world, and the
education has improved immensely for prevention, and candidly that prevention
is critical in those underserved communities and the you know,
(05:51):
the communities internationally that have less economic power, it's even
more critical to get screening because the treatment will be
less invasive when the person, when the lady needs the treatment,
it will be easier to access because the woman won't
need secondary and tertiary centers, which'll be able to be
treated closer to home. So everybody wins with early detection
(06:14):
and prevention no matter what your economic status, no matter
what your age, no matter where you live, and mammograms
are a key that has unlocked that because the entire
international healthcare community has done a really good job of
spreading that word, and then we focus it intensely in
(06:34):
October and you know, campaign to grab your mom, grab
your sister, grab your friend, you know, go get your screenings.
And I think it's been just a compilation of a
decade of intensive health focus on this matter. And it
has been women leading the charge originally, but I think
everybody's gotten on it over time. Who doesn't have a
(06:58):
mom's sister and friends. I mean, you know, we're fifty
to fifty ladies and mass We're all in it.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I'm curious, babe, because having been with me now for
three years and seeing my focus and my concerns sometimes
when little things get scary in a way that they
wouldn't have otherwise had I not had cancer, Have you
taken your health more seriously? Have you been more willing
(07:27):
to make those doctor's appointments, to get the blood work done,
to focus on your diet. Has it changed anything for
you just to see?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
No, because I will have its dire at the end
of the day, I'm still to do.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
And if it ain't doctor, you know this, If it
ain't broken, ain't bleeding, I ain't going to the doctor.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Is that fairly simple?
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Even though I'm forty eight and pretty healthy, I haven't
had any major issues to put me on edge. I
don't want to have one. But your question, no, not really?
Do you find doctor still in the family front here
for a second, do you find that some family members
end up getting sick? I mean finding themselves that they're
(08:05):
not taking care of themselves doesn't mean they at least
to something like cancer. But do we have to be careful?
Would you give that warning to a lot of family members?
Make sure during these times you also are taking care
of yourself as you're trying to focus on the health
of your love, the one who has just been diagnosed.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Possibly, oh absolutely critically. And now I'm gonna I'm gonna
slightly yell at you to go start getting all of
your screenings doing it.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So, yes, I mean, really, it's telling doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
You have to give a carot, you know, he has
to treat, he has to have a motivation. I don't know,
Maybe it's a bottle of line. I don't know. Yeah,
definitely give a treat, have to give a little sweet
with this hour. But that being said, yes, family members
are at great risk because they are taking on the stress.
They are maybe managing the appointments, taking care of transportation,
(08:56):
worried about finances. We haven't even talked about finances during
a cancer diagnosis. Most many, many times household income drops
dramatically or is affected dramatically throughout cancer treatment and cancer recovery.
That affects the person who is bringing home the finances
to the family immensely, and that sets that person up
for typically more chronic type illnesses, autoimm illnesses, obesity, diabetes,
(09:22):
cardiac disease. And remember these are hitting families oftentimes. Whereas
you might have been susceptible amy to breast cancer, well,
your partner at the time or a caretaker or a
family member, that person might have been more susceptible to diabetes,
for example, And due to all of that stress and
not eating well and not taking care of themselves. Oops,
(09:43):
two years after your cancer diagnosis, that person now has
a chronic disease that we see incredibly commonly, and you
can track it pretty It's pretty clear to track stress.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
A lot of time right, Yeah, Yeah, you're stressed, and
you just go for what makes you feel good at
the time, not necessarily what's good for you to be doing.
You have spent much of your career focusing on the
root causes of these types of diseases, not just cancer,
but certainly cancer included not just treating the symptoms and
dealing with the treatment, but actually trying to figure out
(10:20):
what we all can do better.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
And I know.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
We have changed our diet TJ and I. We have
lowered our alcohol intake, we have done things that we
have been well. We've been deliberate about those choices given
all that we know now. But people talk about superfoods,
and they talk about gut health, and they talk there
are all of these other factors that you don't necessarily
hear about when you go to get your physical or
(10:44):
you go to your oncologist. But you have really focused
on those aspects of medicine that we don't hear enough
about it. And there are so many different competing views
it's hard to know what's true and what's not. Are
there go to things you can be eat that you
can be putting into your diet that can absolutely improve
your overall health. And prevent diseases like cancer.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Well, simple answer is yes, and I know that's probably
I don't know if that's the answer people want to
hear or not hear. But we are setting ourselves up
from the environmental exposures, from the nutritional exposures, from the
stress exposures, from the sugar, from the additives, from the
toxicity that is triggering our genome for sure, to express
(11:28):
these cancers at a much higher rate. Breast cancer rates
have gone up, unfortunately. Luckily though, survival rates have also
gone up. But I deeply believe that the rates of
overall cases are increasing for two reasons. One is the
detection that we were talking about. Hands down, we're detecting
more cases earlier. You can't ignore that. But step two
(11:51):
is we are increasingly having a poorer quality of food.
We have poor soil quality, We are nutritionally less and
less capable. Our macronutrient balance has been all over the map,
as you pointed out, from eat all carbohydrates to no
only eight fats to oh no, be a carnivore diet.
My god, I mean it just I could side here
(12:12):
for hours and do myth versus fact with you guys
on diets, but I think what and so that has
all become additive. Simple vitamin D deficiencies that are really
intense in the population, which sounds very surprising, trigger and
stimulate forms of cancer. Breast being one vitamin D is
critical in the prevention of prostate cancer as well. These
(12:35):
are vitamins that are also critical during the phase of
treating cancers as well. So there are some critical critical
nutrients that we are very aware. Magnesium, zinc, the trace
minerals are critical in both prevention and whilst we're being
treated both. I think most of the time it's oh,
(12:55):
my god, Doc, like, what diet should I do on
a regular daily basis that I that I can maintain.
Don't give me some crazy diet that's unrealistic. And the
best thing I could say there is my dream for
everybody would be more or less a gluten free dairy free.
I have my reasons for that. It doesn't mean you're
(13:16):
gluten sensitive necessarily, but there are a lot of reasons
that relate to that carbohydrate balance and also the the
the basically the genetic poor quality of the wheat that
we eat in this country. However, the eating things that
come from the ground like eating real food. Like if
(13:36):
I actually, you know what, if I could boil down
one piece, it would just say as little process food
as you possibly can. You know, it's kind of like
your mom said, eat your fruits, eat your vegetables, eat
the lean meats. Be smart. Quit eating the sugar. You know,
Cut the alcohol. Sorry, no, you guys have cut the alcohol.
(13:58):
That's right. It doesn't have to be to zero. Don't
be extreme. Don't be tempted by any of the super
extreme diets I mentioned one, you know, the carnivore concept.
A lot of them are just remixtures of diets that
have been around for a long time. Anyway, there's basically
no new news in our physiology, our biochemistry, or the
(14:19):
diet of human beings. There are new ways to package
it and make it sound sexy or interesting or new
or trendy or a fad. We haven't really learned anything
massively earth shattering about the need for your diet and
nutrition in a very long time. We just have to
keep teaching each other how to implement it. So I
(14:45):
don't like a lot of cow dairy in the diet
that much. I can say. People hate to hear that,
because everybody likes their cheese and it's easy, and most
women say, oh, but cottage cheese has protein, and Swiss
cheese has protein. And I like my yogurt and things
like this, but that is saturated animal fat also, so
(15:06):
I would I would limit my dairy. Uh, it doesn't
have to be zero, but that would be a favorite.
Remembering too that many dairy products are highly processed, so
the more you get out of the ground. You mentioned superfoods,
those are some of the faves. Some of them are
kind of hard to eat. I don't know how much
kale you can eat, but if you can do it,
do it. I do. And you know what another thing
(15:29):
about food, like I don't like all the superfoods and
foods that I recommend and that I eat. I admit it.
I don't like it all. I just do it. Like
are we grown ups? Just like I don't know, hold
your nose eat the broccoli. I don't know. I mean, really,
(15:52):
I didn't grow up on fish. I grew up in
the Midwest. We didn't eat a bunch. Yeah, I didn't
eat a bunch of salmon.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
I have struggled with that, but I'd love that. You
just guess I grew up in the Midwest, moved stuff.
But yes, my whole all my family is from right
around where you are, and we did not grow up
with seafood. And I have struggled with that. And I
watched TJ just devour seafood and I'm jealous because it's
hard for me.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, you can train your palette. We can. Adults have to. Literally,
I mean I've sat in front of patients a million
times and in the Midwest and their idea and this
is no disrespect. Okay. I grew up on like fish sticks,
do you remember that? Yeah, what I thought was fish
like in the box with the sticks fishmen.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yes, Catholic. On Fridays, I went to the Catholic school
elementary school. We had fish stick Fridays, and I think
it continuded to my dislike of seafood.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
That's so funny. And then I feel like, I don't know,
maybe once in a while, like bass from the lake
or something like that, Right, people fished and I didn't
know what you didn't know what the heck you were eating,
and kids don't like that stuff in But as a
grown up, just train your palette, and sometimes you're not
gonna like it all, Like I've taught myself how to
(17:09):
how to I may not love it, but how to
eat those quality fatty fishes. They're really really critical. They're
also really critical for your brain. That's got invatory. They're
incredibly important for your brain. All right, got a question,
(17:34):
I see it.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Yeah, you got to help me here, And well, I
know habits, bad habits are very very hard to break,
even though they're very easy to make. But you're sounding
like that so much resistance that people taking care of
their own health is simply I don't like how that
food tastes.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Are you?
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Really do you find so much resistance as someone taking
care of themselves? Is that that argument? It doesn't sound
like one to be sympathetic to, like, Okay, you want
to be like this and risk a heart attack just
because you don't like asparagus?
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Right?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
That kind of thing? Is that?
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Really a massive challenge is getting people to get out
of a habit of just eating bad stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Have you looked to do it? Have you seen the
rate of obesity in our country?
Speaker 4 (18:22):
But Doc, we're told oftentimes that folks can't help it
because of this, they have this health problem, this health problem.
I often find that in the conversation. We're trying to
be sensitive, and I understand that, but so much often
is the responsibility is not lying at the feet of
that person who might be unhealthy. It's something else going on.
(18:45):
So I'm asking you, as a doctor, when you're in
that room with them, is it really sometimes that simple?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
You can't get people to change something.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
As simple as what you put in your mouth.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
It's true, change is hard. These are ingrained habits. These
are habits that we grew up with. It tastes good,
it provides you pleasure and enjoyment. Also cost right, also
eat or speed you're shopping quickly, you don't have time
to go to the farmer's market. I'm telling you behind doors,
(19:20):
when you're when you're really speaking one on one to
a human being who's trying to change their health. No,
they don't just say okay, Doc, give me the list,
I'll eat all that stuff, great, no problem, then they
walk out the door. No, it's a successive approximation and
gradual learning. They need help, they need coaching. They know
you're kind of saying, come on, doctor, Stacy, why do
(19:41):
we need a clinical nutritionist or a functional medicine doctor
when we know to eat our broccoli. We know to
eat our kale, and we know to eat lean meats.
People do know. I think they know, they know the basics.
Most people know some base line, you know, fresh fruits
and vegetables. They want to know other specifics like what
oils should I cook with? That one's kind of complex
and confusing. What meats our best? That one, I think
(20:03):
is a little complex for people. What nutrients are in
what foods? Those are a little more sciencey and you
sort of need to teach. But you're just asking that
core basic diet. Is it hard to change? Yes, Your
palate becomes a custom you become accustomed to where creatures
of habit. We buy the same things at the store,
(20:24):
We do the same routine. Everybody's busy. You want to
buy a lot of processed food and a lot of
frozen foods. So really, what I'm saying about eating true
fresh things that come from the ground as nature intended,
I'm asking you not to buy things in boxes. That's
really hard. I think that's really hard for average Americans.
(20:44):
Look at the carts, right, what are people put in
their carts? Look around the store next tide when you
go and just running it now you guys might just
do the more usual, the smarter thing, which is to
shop more frequently.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
What we do we do.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
There's nothing a freezer, nothing except for ice.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
That's awesome. So here, look in your pantry, if you
and look in your freezer. Those are the two. Like
if I did a television show, you know what I
would do, I would like raid people's houses and go
go let them, let me open their refrigerator and their freezer,
and let me open their pantry.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I've watched that show. Because so if you what would
you throw out in someone's refrigerator? What would you throw out?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Well, I would get rid of a lot. I mean,
it's the pantry that I'm more worried about. The refrigerator
would sort of yeah, it's the pantry that I'm more
worried about. It's the crackers and the cookies and the breads,
and the box foods and the box meals that they're
going to mix with something, the packets of things that
have all the chemicals that they're going to mix with
the meat or maybe whatever. I don't even know some
(21:50):
of that stuff anymore. Refrigerator is more of a telltale
from a you know that one. I just want to
see if there's fresh I want to see if there's
actually if there are actually fresh fruits and vegetables in there.
You sodas, I mean, that's where you're gonna put the sodas.
(22:11):
That's whe're gonna put all the the additives and the condiments,
and depending which you know, which ones are good and
which ones are not so great, that's where you're gonna
stuff all the pickles. I don't know, you know, just
I don't know any quick grab kind of things. But
there can be good things in the refrigerator as well.
But and the freezer too. Part of what I would
be looking at is how old things are. Yeah, people
(22:34):
leave stuff in their fridge that couldn't be eaten.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
You put it in a way, and I think it
helped me and maybe helped a lot of other people.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
When you see it from the perspective you just gave
as a doctor, as not someone who is medically necessarily
going to help you lose weight. You all are counselors.
You counsel people through what they need to be doing.
I think looking at it that way versus I think
a lot of people do. Think a person who's having
a weight prop goes to a doctor, give me the medicine,
help me lose the weight. And certainly in this day
and time, people are taking injections and losing weight. So
(23:11):
thank you. You put that in a way that makes
it make more sense of how maybe we should be
viewing doctors as counselors.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Especially who are helping people on this. So thank you.
That makes perfect sense to me.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
You're welcome. That's what we all thought we were in
school for, and then unfortunately we all learned that we
really weren't in school to learn how to truly take
care of people. I can remember the moment. I can
remember the moment in medical school where I went, oh,
crime many and you sort of look around the room
and you know, you're all there thinking you're going to
take care of people. And I asked a question about
(23:43):
nutrition and it was a very softball question. It wasn't
something radical, and I got the doctor because they're calling
you doctor before your doctor. We are here to learn
about pharmaceuticals and surgery. That is what will be in
your toolkit. And I just remember thinking, oh, okay, here
(24:05):
we go. And you know what that does. It chills you.
It puts us silence over your thoughts of what if, well,
what else aren't I supposed to? Aren't I here just
to help human beings in whatever tools we have. I
mean I remember walking in and feeling it did it
really matter what we were going to offer people, as
(24:26):
long as it was what worked and what they needed
and what helped them. You are very correct. You take
me down another road and we're on breast cancer today.
But we don't have enough time in the healthcare system
to counsel, as you just stated, we should have more time.
That is our job, because I believe most human beings
(24:48):
intuitively understand their health. They understand a lot of what's
going on. They do a lot of reading their bodies.
Are very intelligent beings, and they just need the extra help.
And it takes a little bit of time, and it
takes tailoring to your individual needs and those quiet conversations
like when you were sort of shocked about the asparagus.
(25:10):
They're only gonna tell me that, probably like a one
on one private moment, right, They're not going to tell
me some of the embarrassing things like doc, like they're
not gonna tell all their friends they're confused what fish
to eat, or I hate asparagus or I mean, I've
got people that eat baby food. There's all kinds of
food disorders out there, and they only really bubble up
(25:33):
when you're in a very when they're safe, when people
are safe to speak about it. And speaking of that
includes these breast cancer screenings. And I was curious, Amy,
you felt you'd waited too long to do your screening,
but you were only forty. Did you sense that you
had low risk?
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Oh? Absolutely so. I had been given my prescription to
get a mammogram when I was thirty nine by my obgyn,
and they had just changed that time the recommendations to
fifty if you had no family history. I have a
very large family. My mom's one of nine, my dad's
one of six zero breast cancer diagnoses in my family
(26:15):
at that point. So it was completely the last thing
on my mind. So I deliberately threw away my prescription.
I lost it and I couldn't find it, and said, eh,
I'll do it in ten years. And if I hadn't
been given the assignment for work, I would not have
gotten a mammogram period. I felt like I was perfectly healthy,
look and I did not eat well. I will be
(26:35):
fully honest, I just always happened to be naturally thin.
I worked out, and I felt like I could eat
what I wanted, and I didn't have good habits. And
it wasn't until later after my treatment was done where
I was feeling scared and secure and fragile, like what
else could I should I be doing? But no one,
I have to be honest, and I had great care
(26:56):
and amazing doctors, but no one is focused on your nutrition.
Known is focused on what you're putting in your body.
They're focused on putting chemo in you and other drugs
and medicines that I'm grateful for that help me get
me to where I am now. But there was no
discussion about food. I heard drink less. But short of that,
we really don't talk to cancer patients or frankly, most
(27:21):
people don't get a full understanding when they go in
for their annual, if they even go in for their annual,
about what to eat and what not to eat, And
so I'm just always so fascinated that wouldn't that be
one of the major focuses. You would think, what's the
one thing we can all do that we have total
control over, And that's what we consume how we fuel
(27:41):
our bodies.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Well, you just stated my entire profession that is one
of the very few things that we have control over
what we actually put in our mouth. And you also
were just making me giggle inside because I was thinking
to myself, do you guys have pets, dog, cats, whatever?
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yes? Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
When you take your dog to the vet and they're
sick and mystery sickness, let's say I personally, in my experience,
the first thing the vet asks you, it's what are
they eating? That's true, the first question short of that
they're bleeding or something, you know, trauma. But if it's
this mystery illness, what are you feeding your puppy? What
(28:25):
are you feeding your dog? It's the first thing we
talk about with an infant who can't speak with us. Right,
are they eating? Are they eat are they digesting? Well?
Are they going to the bathroom? Are they doing this?
Are they doing that? Or how long does it take
them to eat? Same thing with the puppy or the dog.
But you go into a person physician and I don't
what is the first question, where's your insurance card? Basically
(28:48):
I don't know. Let's the wallet biopsy as we call it.
But I'm giving I'm giving you a little the darker
side of medicine here. And then the second question, and
it's sort of like, why are you here right? What
what brought you in today? And that's fine, that's a
that's a lovely first. That is what we should ask
you. You know, what were you thinking about that brought you
(29:10):
in to see us today. That's that's a very open
ended question. You're going to share what's going on for you,
but almost never in that entire conversation. Are you going
to get what are you eating? Tell me about your digestion?
I mean you might, you could be with a gas
cerentrologist and things like this. But I'm being funny because
it's it really should be the number one. Are you sleeping?
(29:33):
What are you eating? How are you feeling? What brings
you in today? What's your stress level? That's what I
want to know first out of the gate, short of
your you're not bleeding? You know, That's what's all different question.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And I know that you are a part of some
cutting edge studies that you are a part of in
terms of cancer research. One of them involves prebiotic fiber
and uchinia treatments. Others acupuncture along with chemotherapy that prevents
(30:12):
nerve damage with early stage brest cancer patients. I mean,
these are things that you know, we have to as
patients go try to find on the internet. But there
is I have not seen or heard from someone who
there are some holistic approaches to cancer, but it's it's
few and far between, and so you are actually finding
(30:32):
some real connections between some non traditional medicines and treating cancers.
We are where are we field? But we don't have enough.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
We don't have enough. It's a complicated terrain because a
lot of it is in the field that I like
to call wisdom medicine, or that's kind of the wisdom
that's been passed down through the ages from family member
to family member, friend to friend to friend, and some
of them are extremely value Integrative cancer research is complicated
because it breaks down into several realms more or less.
(31:08):
In decades past, it's kind of been the last ditch
efforts that people often win to other countries to find
other treatments. It wasn't terribly safe, you didn't necessarily know
what it was. I actually worked with an organization called
the Gateway for Cancer Research that we specifically seek out
integrative medicine cancer oriented treatments, and we also do traditional
(31:33):
at the bedside clinical phase one treatment. So we try
to balance about seventy percent traditional therapies that we fund,
but we still want them to be extremely avant garde.
We want to fund therapies that typically would not get
funded even when they're say a chemotherapy or a surgery
or a radiation or a device. But we apply thirty
percent of our funds in search and finding integrative oriented
(31:57):
cancer trials. And that can be for the treatment of
the primary disease, that can be to ease the side
effects of treatment of the primary disease. Those therapies could
be something that we're trying to prevent a recurrence. And honestly,
you know what, I feel, integrative therapies really shine in
(32:19):
secondary prevention, meaning your case amy you don't want to
get where you were again. The reason I think those
therapies really shine post treatment is when you're deep in
your original treatment, you really have to focus right. You're
going through a lot. It could be surgery, it could
be radiation. You're thinking about a lot of things. It's
(32:40):
not easy to add complex therapies on top of that.
We can add what I call adjunctive that ease you're suffering,
ease your pain, help your body tolerate the treatments, and
here are some examples. Vitamin C is just I consider
it almost magic. So one of the studies we worked
on was pre treading vitamin C before chemotherapy. Loading up
(33:03):
vitamin C IV before your chemotherapy treatment will ease the
chemotherapy side effects a whole heck of a lot like
it is game changing, transformational, never heard that before. That's
a really really critical one we do. We are utilizing
acupuncture and studying acupuncture as well for neuropathy, which, as
(33:24):
you know, is a common side effect post radiation for
alt forms of cancers, but particularly breast cancer. It's a
real bugaboo and utilizing acupuncture, but we could utilize acupuncture
also for pain management. We could utilize it for stimulating
those nerves to bring them back to life. Essentially, that's
what neuropathy means, sort of the death of the small nerves,
and we can utilize acupunctures to stimulate the improvement and
(33:48):
health of those nerves. Candidly, it's been around for four
or five thousand years. Acupuncture, well, you know it's sometimes
I'm like, why do I why do we have to
study this? Why don't we just do it?
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Like?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Are we hurting anybody? It's not that expensive, we know
how to do it, we know how it works. But
everybody likes to study. Everybody likes research, and it's my field.
I know. That's why I can make fun of it. So, yes,
we do have acupuncture trials going on as well. We
have evaluations in trace minerals like copper that relates to
(34:21):
we've found copper depletions in triple negative breast cancers, so
we've learned that the lower copper values can actually trigger
those cancers to occur. And that goes back to the soil.
You mentioned another one. We said ac vitamin C, prebiotic
fiber was another. Not just I just just mind your microbiome.
(34:45):
Let's like, do ten shows on that? Sorry? Ten shows
on your microbiome. I just have to say, mind your
microbiome in your health in general. For cancer, it's extremely
critical as well, because that is your immune system that
is protecting and stimulating eighty percent of the immune function
in your body. We would be insane to not protect
(35:06):
our microbiome in cancer prevention. During cancer treatment and for
prevention of secondary occurrence.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Doctor Sacy. In terms of that, what is there one
thing or two things that you should everyone should add
into their diet, whether you're a cancer patient, survivor or not,
that contributes to gut health.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
You know, I think an easy thing if you just
want to go, okay, I'm going to do this, I'm
going to give you two and that is take a
fiber supplement. It tastes grows sorry, sorry TJ. They don't
taste very good. Just hold your nose, okay, But anyway,
take a fiber. You can take them in pills too.
By the way, you don't have to drink them, but
it's nice to drink them because you get the hydration.
(35:46):
So I'm a fan of any vitamin A nutrient that
is in a liquid. I love liquids, I love shakes,
I love drinks. I love powders that are in water
because guess what, you get the water too. Because I'm
somebody that doesn't get that thirsty get to drink. With
all my knowledge and all that I work in this,
I have to force myself to make sure and get
that water in as well. So taking my nutrients or
(36:10):
vitamins or amino acids or fiber or even a powdered
vitamin C in a liquid helps me because then I
get two focuses, right, I'm doing the nutrients and the
second one is I really do support taking probiotics. These days,
it doesn't have to be all that complicated. You can
take a basic, fairly inexpensive Acidophilus ambifitous general broad spectrum probiotic.
(36:34):
They're not that expensive. There was a time where I
had to be really really specific with the prescribing of
one for like your general health. We really don't need
to be quite as specific anymore. It's grown so much.
The availability is safer. It's you know, I could give
you fifteen brands that I support, but really getting it
(36:58):
down is really really important. And choose something that is
well decently within your budget at a quality type store,
and you'll do okay on the On the probiotic, I'm
a big probiotic fan. Those are those are critical. It's
just really hard to get those things in your food anymore.
I don't want to age myself, but you know, twenty
(37:18):
years ago I might have worked with you a little
more to get it all in your diet. I might
if you like came to me and you were one
of those people that went, oh, Doc, I don't want
to take any vitamins. That's stupid, and people do. I
want to get it from my food, and I just
I just really want to do it that way. Can't
you get vitamins from your food? And I go, yeah,
you can. It's really hard anymore, and you're gonna have
(37:41):
to work really hard at it. So I would take
the easy route guarantee. I mean, you want your food quality,
do your best, but guess what the vitamins, the nutrients,
the fiber that I mentioned, the taking your your probiotics
to inhabit your microbiome insurance policy, that just layers on
(38:03):
the guarantee. I mean I eat very well and I
still take all the nutrients.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
That's good to hear. We had someone once tell us
that it just makes for expensive p so.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I know everybody says that, and oh god, it drives
me crazy. Like if you said to me, Doc, I
only have fifty dollars a month for spare for my vitamins.
That's my budget, I could do it. I could give
you the really like type that's not very much. I mean,
(38:36):
that's tough. That's tough. We're probably in a multi vitamin
and an EPA, DHA and maybe a probiotic. That probably
is about what you could do. But by the way,
I would still do it. Do you eliminate vitamins in
your urine? Yes? Of course, you use what you can
use and you eliminate the rest. Same with your food.
(38:58):
I don't know. I love I don't know.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
No, I appreciate it. I love this empowerment and the
fact that you can because I always felt like I
was cheating by taking a supplements that it's very cool
to hear. I want to make sure we get in.
This is our last question for you. You have. This
is people are going to be listening to this while
your gala is probably in full swing here, but your
thirty fourth Annual Cures Gala this weekend in Illinois, and
(39:25):
you spotlight the urgency of patient centered cancer research. Why
is this such an important weekend for you? And just
give us a sense of of what you hope to accomplish.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Well, thank you for letting me talk about that for
a moment. We are we're upcoming this weekend for our
one of our two largest annual fundraisers. We like to
do it in the month of October. We raise funds
for phase one clinical cancer care trials and what that
means is they go directly to the bedside. We are
an organization that funds directly from a trial to a
(39:59):
human The trials have to be ready to go to
a human being and they are just awaiting funding. Other
types of organizations fund earlier phases. We are at that
spot where the person desperately needs the treatment. This is
probably their last resort, and we are scouring and taking
in applications every single day from researchers internationally actually and
(40:23):
looking to fund the best and the brightest that we
can possibly find that have patients available and ready to
have their treatment. And that takes money, and that's what
we'll be doing this weekend and hopefully bringing in as
much as we possibly can. Fundraising, of course goes on
all the time, but events create this wonderful space where
we can highlight a patient who's received our care. We
(40:45):
will be talking and bringing in a patient of ours
that's received life changing care and he will be sharing
his story. It brings people together. We all share in
that one cause. I really deeply believe in that community
aspect of funding, it's very critical. Certainly you can fundraise
without getting together, but it's a whole heck of a
lot more meaningful when you see survivors, family members, people
(41:10):
that have received care, donors that want to fund the care.
Bringing them all together in one cause is what we'll
be doing this weekend.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Well, doctor Stacy Stevenson, thank you for all that you do.
We appreciate I loved your frank talk too, by the way,
it was wonderful to hear just speaking like the rest
of us do. I understood everything you said.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
I tried not to do too much jargon.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
No, but a lot of this is empowering. You know,
we can talk personal responsibility, but it's also empowering. And
the research you're doing is having a real life impact
on folks feeling like they can do something to do better,
to be better, to live better, and to feel stronger.
So thank you. We wish you the best in your
fundraising efforts this weekend, and really appreciate you being on
(42:00):
the podcast with us.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Thank you, nice meeting you. Congratulations. I should have said
that at the top I heard the fabulous news and
a beautiful ring. I'm a yellow I'm a yellow diamond
girl too. Thank you job, good job, TJ, good job.
Thank you, thank you.
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Zima
Chris Harrison
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