July 31, 2025 • 19 mins
Amy and T.J. go over the very latest and shocking details about the 28 year old elementary school teacher now facing two capital murder charges in the deaths of Clinton and Cristen Brink.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, folks. It is Thursday, July thirty first, and after
a five day manhunt, police found the man they believe
murdered a couple I was out on a hike with
their young children. And it turns out he's an elementary
school teacher. Welcome to this what the actual hell episode
of Amy and TJ Robes. A killer, a monster on
(00:25):
the loose, someone who was capable of killing a couple
right in front of their kids. And it's a school teacher.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
And you know what, it's a point to be made
that it's an elementary school teacher too.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I mean, I know, any educator who's in charge.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Of guiding our children and you trust your children with
is shocking enough. But to think he was with these
small children, he was a fifth grade school teacher, and
to think that he was capable of doing what has
been a shocking and hainous crime, even if it was
just this couple alone, but to do it in front
of their two young girls, it's beyond unthinkable. And to
(01:04):
know now that police say it was a twenty eight
year old fifth grade school teacher, and we talked.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I didn't think about this till this moment, but the
two girls who were there with their parents were ages
seven and nine. That nine year old is right about
fifth grade age. That's just wild of whatever coincidence it
may be. But I think for five days, Northwest Arkansas
was living in fear. This guy has been on the run.
At least the person they believe always innocent till proven guilty.
(01:32):
But right now they're telling the community there is no
longer a threat to the community because they have this
guy with robes. That area up there and has a
lot you visited, I went to school there, but there
is a lot of mountains and rough terrain and places
to go and hide and hiking trails and it's all
a part of that area. And to think that somebody
(01:53):
might have just been running around lurking, but we just
won some mountain man. This guy was involved in off
that he needed a haircut, and that's how you got
called it. Not out in the woods, but getting a
damn haircut.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
And that's such a good point. That's also something that's
so shocking. I think many of us imagined, Yes, some survivalist,
some lone wolf, some person who's separated from society, who
has chosen to be off the grid, who knows the
land who can hide and know this was a dude
who was living in a very metropolitan area. For people
(02:24):
who don't know, this area of Arkansas is first of all,
it's gorgeous, and second it's highly populated. It's we just
were at a wedding in Springdale a few months ago.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Your sister lives there, your niece lives there.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
And this is a big biking and hiking and running community.
Everyone's outdoors all the time. I couldn't even imagine be
the biking community and the running community.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I doubt a lot of.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
People felt safe doing those activities while he was on
the loose for these past five days.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
And the Devil's Den State Park there, they've had all
their trails closed since the weekend when this actually happened.
So yeah, everybody was kind of living in fear in
this area. But like you're saying, Robes, we were like,
you do I really want to go out in a
trail and be out in the woods. You're thinking somebody's
lurking around in all those places to hide. No, he
was smack dab in the middle of Springdale, and not
(03:14):
just in the middle of that town. He was about
to play a very important role in that town as
a member of the school community. He had moved to
this area because he had just been hired for the
Springdale at the Springdale School District. And so this guy,
James Andrew McCann is the name, really young guy, twenty
eight years old. He's now facing two counts of capital murder.
(03:34):
He is expected to be in court tomorrow for a hearing.
But Robes, you go back to this incident that really
not just shocked the community, but kind of shocking for
the nation when we heard what happened in the park
on Saturday. Yeah, a couple attacked, but they were walking,
a family of four walking.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yes, Clinton and Kristen Brink they had just moved, so sadly,
just moved to northwest Arkansas. Clinton was about to start
a job as a delivery truck driver. Kristen was a
registered nurse. And yes, there are two young girls seven
and nine were with them out on a hike. It
was a hot day, but it was a beautiful sunny day,
so the woods might have been a little treat cooling
(04:10):
them with the shade. So yeah, they were just on
their way, as were several other folks in the area
on those very same hiking trails.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
It's such a place of peace.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It's a place where you feel safe, especially when you
have your whole family with you and you know other
people are on the trail as well.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I don't think anybody you know, I'm an avid hiker.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Never when i'm alone, maybe running in the woods, which
I've done, maybe I'm a little bit more aware and
a little concerned, but not really.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
And certainly when you've got a group and a family,
and you.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Just would never, even you wouldn't have your guard up necessarily.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Broad daylight, Saturday afternoon on a hiking trail. You're in
a group of four, you feel safe. There was nothing
that family would have been out there worried about other
than poison, ivy or a snake bite. You're just not
expecting this. And I think that was the shocking part
Rose when we heard Wait a minute, the kids were
seven and nine, and you hear this and you think, first,
(05:04):
did they see it? Did they have to witness all
of this? Did they have to see their parents being killed?
And then we weren't how are the kids? The kids
were fine, not harmed at all.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Well, the reports are that the kids somehow managed and
we're going to be getting more details in the next
couple of days. Police have assured us, but the kids
ended up at the visitors center, and they are the
ones who told the woman at the desk.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Our parents have been attacked.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So they certainly it seems as though they saw at
least the attack itself. Who knows how much they saw.
But we were just conjecturing the other day, thinking, if
you're the parents, you're probably just screaming, run, run, run.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
To your kids.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
And they did that very thing, and we're able to
get to safety unharmed. And that is when the visitor
center alerted nine to one to one, and that I
mean shortly thereafter. I believe they was found in the body.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
And you've mentioned there with the parents. Probably did any
parent you just instinctively ever going to do this, But
I think it was the family of the two who died.
Didn't They say in the statement that they died protecting Yes,
they made that point that they died protecting their kids.
And you know, if they got attack, their first thought
(06:14):
was I need to do everything I can to make
sure these kids get out of here. And okay, the
last act of their life I'm sure was protecting their
seven to nine year old kid.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Of course it was.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
And you know, those little girls, I'm sure told their
family members exactly what happened, so they were able to
speak with authority and clarity that Clinton and Kristen died
saving their daughters.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Okay, so we're waiting and waiting, right, And that was
some controversy early on in the in the community was
actually pissed at police. What was it a six hour gap?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Yes, it was a six hour gap.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Between the attack and when the reports first came in
and when they let the public know.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
It was between when they found the bodies and when
they actually alerted the public that there was a double
murderer on the loose.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, public didn't appreciate that. How did I can't even
remember right now exactly how they explained it. It didn't sound
like the best explanation. But take them out there. Word
It was hard to get word out.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Police claimed that by the time they did all the
interviews that they needed to complete on the scene there
to figure out exactly what may have happened, and the
fact that it was rugged terrain, so it took them
a while to reach people to investigate the scene. And
then on top of that, they say they were spotty
cell service, so it was difficult literally to get the
word out, they claim.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
So that was just six hours, and people there were criticizing,
but it went much longer than six hours. This went
four days, so it took five days before they tracked
this person down. They did have a composite sketch that
went out. The sketch compared to the suspect. Do you
think it was spot on spint on?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Oh, I thought it was really really well done. And
we're getting a little bit of interesting tidbits about how
that sketch may have even come about, because we've heard
you know, obviously there were other people on the trail
here and there, but there's a local podcaster, a guy
out of Arkansas who was an investigative podcast and he
actually spoke to a couple who was on the trail
(08:02):
and they talked about They said they were the ones
who gave the details to police where they were able
to complete this composite sketch.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
But they saw a man who stood out first.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Of all that day, that hiking day, it was about
one hundred degrees, they said, so everybody was dressed appropriately
except for this man they saw who was dressed head
to toe in black. They said he looked like he
was on a mission, and they described the way he
looked at them as though he was. He gave them
a death stare, and they described him as just having
bad energy to the point where they kind.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Of looked at each other.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
They had a dog with them and they were just like, whoof.
And so they didn't know until the next day that
anything had happened. The word didn't get out, and that's
when they said they both looked at each other and said,
oh my god, we saw him.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
And it wasn't just them able to do the composite sketch.
I haven't seen where the picture came from, but some
of you listening we'll remember the sketch came out. And
then a day or two later they had a picture.
They were calling, I mean, they were all hikers. If
you were in this area, please look at your pictures,
look at your video. You might have possibly inadvertently gotten
(09:08):
a shot of this suspect. And so they released an
image and this thing was creepy as hell. So all
the descriptions we were getting dark had dark pants, a
duffelebell or a backpack and all this stuff. And then
to see the image just from the back of somebody
looking out that they say was the suspect. And again
I made the comment, you and I watch a lot
(09:29):
of horror movies and it is a hallmark of a
lot of them. One of the scariest scenes is the
monster or the killer just a silhouette of that person.
You can't see the face, and that's what it looked like.
It was a creepy, creepy picture. And he's all black,
one hundred degree a day, fully in all black.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, And first of all, when if you're a hiker,
you don't typically see people all in all black, in
long sleeves when it's that hot outside, with a duffle
back the way he had it, it wasn't even like a
hiker's backpack. It was more like a duffel amesh duffle ball,
So he had something in there.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
It just looked eerie.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And certainly, when you see the mugshot of this man
compared to the sketch, I think it's spot on, do.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
You not, Oh? Almost goodness, it's just the hat. And
again where he was caught. We were just commenting a
second ago. All the descriptions said a guy in a
dark hat and then we got word that he was
arrested at a barber shop. Yes, at a salon in Springdale,
mid haircut, we're told police go in, they cover the front,
they cover the back. They apparently saw a vehicle that
(10:32):
matched a description, so they go in looking for the guy.
He's in the chair getting a haircut, and in his
post arrest picture looks like they didn't finish his haircut.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah, he actually looks like a man who had half
his haircut and still was in need of it. And
the woman who was actually cutting his hair, this was
at Lupita's beauty salon and barber shop in Springdale. She
actually took pictures of his of police had actually used
part of his hair as evidence, and then his vehicle.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
She was taking videos and pictures.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
She can you imagine you're cutting a customer's hair and
police storm in and arrest him, and you realize that
this person who you were touching, who you were that
close with, was this double murder suspect that police had
been searching for for five days. I can't even get
my head around what that must have been like for her.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
You know that anybody who's been to a swan, anybody
ever had a haircut. It is a very intimate experience.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
It is.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Folks have to be right up on you, right up under,
you're touching you in all kinds of ways. And to again,
that thought rolled to me. I've been in places with
murderers on the other side of a jail cell, right,
and that scares the hell.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Out of me.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Oh yeah, it's eerie. A's hell.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I mean to think the guy somebody it's capable of
doing what he's accused of, is the guy you're casually
just around is absolutely terrifying.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And yeah, and it's one of those other moments where look,
police right now have said they don't believe that McGahn
knew his victims or had any reason why he would
have chosen those people and that family in particular, But
it's so fascinating to think how he chose, why he chose.
So he passes this one family with the dog who
(12:19):
take note of him but doesn't bother them. He's walking
around town apparently in Springdale, decides not to attack anybody else.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
He's in a barber shop.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
He's peaceful and calm. You know, It's just so it's
unexplicable and it's unimaginable. How and why someone like that
would make the choices.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
That he did.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
But folks, it was shocking the crime. Several days of
the man hunt, it was intense, It was terrifying. But
then comes the arrest and then we learn who this
guy is, and this guy has been teaching elementary school
students for the past several years. Allry, folks. We continue
(13:15):
now with the word of James Andrew mcgahann, a twenty
eight year old man who has now been charged with
two counts of capital murder and the death of two
hikers who are hiking in Arkansas at Devil's Den State
Park along with their young children. They were killed last Saturday.
After five day manhunt, they have finally tracked him down
and rose, I don't know if we gave it good enough.
Perspective of northwest Arkansas, I guess most people are familiar
(13:40):
with the University of Arkansas and Fayetteville up there in
northwest Arkansas. Obviously I'm familiar to where I went to school.
So if you go to Faytteville, you go about ten
miles north and you hit Springdale. But if you're in
Faydville and you go about twenty five miles south you
hit Devil's Den State Park, So it's about thirty five
miles between Devil'sden State Park where the murders happened, and
(14:03):
Springdale ultimately, so it appears that is where certainly he
was spending his time. He was living in robes, he
was about to start working.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Can you imagine if you have a child in that
school system and you just think about the fact that
if he hadn't been caught.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
When does school start there pretty soon? Correct?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I mean down there, it's usually like early to mid August,
So he could have been in a classroom with children
in a matter of days or at least in a
matter of a week or two, if he had not
been caught, and if those folks who hadn't recognized him
or recognized that he looks strange given those descriptions to
police handed over the videos and photos that they had.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Some folks had.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
One guy had a video of a car of the car,
and that is how they were able to get it.
I actually watched that video online today. So just people
who inadvertently happened to capture him. All of this video,
all this technology handed over to pull allowed them to
zero in on this man. But had that not been
the case, it is so frightening to think he could
have been hiding in plain sight and teaching your children.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
And you don't. You mentioned the car, and what is
important to make the note of it was duct tape
on the license plate. And given what he was wearing,
giving what he was carrying, he seemed like he was
going out there with a purpose. This was premeditated. Well,
did he just go out there to find someone to kill?
(15:31):
Was he? I can't imagine. Again, they don't think he
was targeting these folks in particular, So what was his
plan really to find a random person to kill?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Police?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
The only thing they said, and while they did say
yes that they don't believe that he knew his victims,
but they did say that they didn't want to address
motive right now. So I read into that that perhaps
they do have an idea, they're just not ready to
reveal it yet, because again, everyone in these cases wants
to know the why, not that it helps, not that
it necessarily, it doesn't bring anyone back, it doesn't alleviate grief,
(16:03):
but just to understand, perhaps in order to prevent, but
really it's just it's mind.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Boggling, and you know I mentioned after you said it,
he said, Hey, this guy soon could have been teaching kids. Now,
it seems they say he hadn't started yet, and he
had not interacted with any of the students or any
of the parents. But I'm looking at the website here.
School starts in a matter of two weeks August eleventh.
He was that close to being in a classroom, they say,
(16:30):
August eleventh, Yes, first day of school in Springdale.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
They said he hadn't interacted with students or parents. They
didn't necessarily say he hadn't interacted with other teachers, because
you know, teachers go back early, they get their classroom
set up. No word yet if anyone had actually interacted
with him.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Had he been in the school already at this point.
Don't teachers go and prep My mom also the elementary
school teacher. She seemed like she worked all summer.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
To me, absolutely, And you know, he again passed those
background checks in the Springdale public school system. He also
did in the Oklahoma school system he was working in.
He was also licensed to teach in the state of
Texas as well, so you know he had access to children.
It's just we it's so frightening thing goodness, he was caught.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
When he was caught, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
If folks will wonder about background checks, and at least
two I think, or maybe even three school districts he's
worked with put out statements pretty quickly saying, yes, he
worked here, this is when, this is when he left,
and he passed all background checks. Yes, teachers have to
do it. How do you what signs were missed?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Right?
Speaker 1 (17:33):
And it's not a suggestion that any of these school
district did anything wrong. But if a guy passes a
background check, how do you register? How do you sit
across a table from somebody and go, yeah, this might
be a killer. We're not going to hire this one,
even though he has a resume that shows he's worked
as a teacher in several other school districts. I don't
know what you could possibly do about it.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I think we will be hearing from parents, students, folks
who actually were in his classrooms, and I'm really curious
to hear what their take was of him. Did they
not notice anything, did he pass as a normal, friendly
elementary school teacher, or did people always feel like he
(18:11):
had strange energy or they got bad vibes from him?
And I'm hoping, and I can only imagine most people
will say, holy crab, this guy taught me or this
guy taught my kids, and I you know, parent student
excuse me, parent teacher conferences. I mean, he had to
have had interactions with lots of folks over the last
several years dealing with their most prized possession, their children.
(18:34):
So people, you remember teachers, and you really remember teachers
that you don't like or you don't think are good
for your kids.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
So I am very.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Curious because obviously his name just came out, but I
could only imagine we're going to be hearing a lot about.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Who this guy was leading up to this vicious attack.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
All right, guys, we're going to keep an eye on
all that's happening in this case. Yes, there's some relief
in northwest Arkansas that a potential killer, the killer is
potentially off off the streets. Yes, it's clearness. To make
this point. Police up there do not believe there is
a continued threat to the community because of these murders.
They believe they have their guy, Their guy will be
(19:14):
in court tomorrow. Has he interruptedly yet at all?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
No, we haven't heard anything about the plea, just that
He's been charged with two counts of capital murder and
he could face the death penalty in the state of Arkansas.
There are twenty three people on death row in Arkansas
right now, so this is a state that has no
problem putting people on death row. But yes, his hearing
is tomorrow, August first, and we will of course give
(19:37):
you all the latest details as they become available in
terms of just who this man was, any more information
and certainly what the courts decide to do with him tomorrow.
In the meantime, though, want to thank you for listening.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I'm Amy Robach alongside my partner T. J. Holmes.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
We hope you have a wonderful day today.
Hey, folks. It is Thursday, July thirty first, and after
a five day manhunt, police found the man they believe
murdered a couple I was out on a hike with
their young children. And it turns out he's an elementary
school teacher. Welcome to this what the actual hell episode
of Amy and TJ Robes. A killer, a monster on
(00:25):
the loose, someone who was capable of killing a couple
right in front of their kids. And it's a school teacher.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
And you know what, it's a point to be made
that it's an elementary school teacher too.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I mean, I know, any educator who's in charge.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Of guiding our children and you trust your children with
is shocking enough. But to think he was with these
small children, he was a fifth grade school teacher, and
to think that he was capable of doing what has
been a shocking and hainous crime, even if it was
just this couple alone, but to do it in front
of their two young girls, it's beyond unthinkable. And to
(01:04):
know now that police say it was a twenty eight
year old fifth grade school teacher, and we talked.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I didn't think about this till this moment, but the
two girls who were there with their parents were ages
seven and nine. That nine year old is right about
fifth grade age. That's just wild of whatever coincidence it
may be. But I think for five days, Northwest Arkansas
was living in fear. This guy has been on the run.
At least the person they believe always innocent till proven guilty.
(01:32):
But right now they're telling the community there is no
longer a threat to the community because they have this
guy with robes. That area up there and has a
lot you visited, I went to school there, but there
is a lot of mountains and rough terrain and places
to go and hide and hiking trails and it's all
a part of that area. And to think that somebody
(01:53):
might have just been running around lurking, but we just
won some mountain man. This guy was involved in off
that he needed a haircut, and that's how you got
called it. Not out in the woods, but getting a
damn haircut.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
And that's such a good point. That's also something that's
so shocking. I think many of us imagined, Yes, some survivalist,
some lone wolf, some person who's separated from society, who
has chosen to be off the grid, who knows the
land who can hide and know this was a dude
who was living in a very metropolitan area. For people
(02:24):
who don't know, this area of Arkansas is first of all,
it's gorgeous, and second it's highly populated. It's we just
were at a wedding in Springdale a few months ago.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Your sister lives there, your niece lives there.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
And this is a big biking and hiking and running community.
Everyone's outdoors all the time. I couldn't even imagine be
the biking community and the running community.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I doubt a lot of.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
People felt safe doing those activities while he was on
the loose for these past five days.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
And the Devil's Den State Park there, they've had all
their trails closed since the weekend when this actually happened.
So yeah, everybody was kind of living in fear in
this area. But like you're saying, Robes, we were like,
you do I really want to go out in a
trail and be out in the woods. You're thinking somebody's
lurking around in all those places to hide. No, he
was smack dab in the middle of Springdale, and not
(03:14):
just in the middle of that town. He was about
to play a very important role in that town as
a member of the school community. He had moved to
this area because he had just been hired for the
Springdale at the Springdale School District. And so this guy,
James Andrew McCann is the name, really young guy, twenty
eight years old. He's now facing two counts of capital murder.
(03:34):
He is expected to be in court tomorrow for a hearing.
But Robes, you go back to this incident that really
not just shocked the community, but kind of shocking for
the nation when we heard what happened in the park
on Saturday. Yeah, a couple attacked, but they were walking,
a family of four walking.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yes, Clinton and Kristen Brink they had just moved, so sadly,
just moved to northwest Arkansas. Clinton was about to start
a job as a delivery truck driver. Kristen was a
registered nurse. And yes, there are two young girls seven
and nine were with them out on a hike. It
was a hot day, but it was a beautiful sunny day,
so the woods might have been a little treat cooling
(04:10):
them with the shade. So yeah, they were just on
their way, as were several other folks in the area
on those very same hiking trails.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
It's such a place of peace.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It's a place where you feel safe, especially when you
have your whole family with you and you know other
people are on the trail as well.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I don't think anybody you know, I'm an avid hiker.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Never when i'm alone, maybe running in the woods, which
I've done, maybe I'm a little bit more aware and
a little concerned, but not really.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
And certainly when you've got a group and a family,
and you.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Just would never, even you wouldn't have your guard up necessarily.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Broad daylight, Saturday afternoon on a hiking trail. You're in
a group of four, you feel safe. There was nothing
that family would have been out there worried about other
than poison, ivy or a snake bite. You're just not
expecting this. And I think that was the shocking part
Rose when we heard Wait a minute, the kids were
seven and nine, and you hear this and you think, first,
(05:04):
did they see it? Did they have to witness all
of this? Did they have to see their parents being killed?
And then we weren't how are the kids? The kids
were fine, not harmed at all.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Well, the reports are that the kids somehow managed and
we're going to be getting more details in the next
couple of days. Police have assured us, but the kids
ended up at the visitors center, and they are the
ones who told the woman at the desk.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Our parents have been attacked.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So they certainly it seems as though they saw at
least the attack itself. Who knows how much they saw.
But we were just conjecturing the other day, thinking, if
you're the parents, you're probably just screaming, run, run, run.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
To your kids.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
And they did that very thing, and we're able to
get to safety unharmed. And that is when the visitor
center alerted nine to one to one, and that I
mean shortly thereafter. I believe they was found in the body.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
And you've mentioned there with the parents. Probably did any
parent you just instinctively ever going to do this, But
I think it was the family of the two who died.
Didn't They say in the statement that they died protecting Yes,
they made that point that they died protecting their kids.
And you know, if they got attack, their first thought
(06:14):
was I need to do everything I can to make
sure these kids get out of here. And okay, the
last act of their life I'm sure was protecting their
seven to nine year old kid.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Of course it was.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
And you know, those little girls, I'm sure told their
family members exactly what happened, so they were able to
speak with authority and clarity that Clinton and Kristen died
saving their daughters.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Okay, so we're waiting and waiting, right, And that was
some controversy early on in the in the community was
actually pissed at police. What was it a six hour gap?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Yes, it was a six hour gap.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Between the attack and when the reports first came in
and when they let the public know.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
It was between when they found the bodies and when
they actually alerted the public that there was a double
murderer on the loose.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, public didn't appreciate that. How did I can't even
remember right now exactly how they explained it. It didn't sound
like the best explanation. But take them out there. Word
It was hard to get word out.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Police claimed that by the time they did all the
interviews that they needed to complete on the scene there
to figure out exactly what may have happened, and the
fact that it was rugged terrain, so it took them
a while to reach people to investigate the scene. And
then on top of that, they say they were spotty
cell service, so it was difficult literally to get the
word out, they claim.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
So that was just six hours, and people there were criticizing,
but it went much longer than six hours. This went
four days, so it took five days before they tracked
this person down. They did have a composite sketch that
went out. The sketch compared to the suspect. Do you
think it was spot on spint on?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Oh, I thought it was really really well done. And
we're getting a little bit of interesting tidbits about how
that sketch may have even come about, because we've heard
you know, obviously there were other people on the trail
here and there, but there's a local podcaster, a guy
out of Arkansas who was an investigative podcast and he
actually spoke to a couple who was on the trail
(08:02):
and they talked about They said they were the ones
who gave the details to police where they were able
to complete this composite sketch.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
But they saw a man who stood out first.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Of all that day, that hiking day, it was about
one hundred degrees, they said, so everybody was dressed appropriately
except for this man they saw who was dressed head
to toe in black. They said he looked like he
was on a mission, and they described the way he
looked at them as though he was. He gave them
a death stare, and they described him as just having
bad energy to the point where they kind.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Of looked at each other.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
They had a dog with them and they were just like, whoof.
And so they didn't know until the next day that
anything had happened. The word didn't get out, and that's
when they said they both looked at each other and said,
oh my god, we saw him.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
And it wasn't just them able to do the composite sketch.
I haven't seen where the picture came from, but some
of you listening we'll remember the sketch came out. And
then a day or two later they had a picture.
They were calling, I mean, they were all hikers. If
you were in this area, please look at your pictures,
look at your video. You might have possibly inadvertently gotten
(09:08):
a shot of this suspect. And so they released an
image and this thing was creepy as hell. So all
the descriptions we were getting dark had dark pants, a
duffelebell or a backpack and all this stuff. And then
to see the image just from the back of somebody
looking out that they say was the suspect. And again
I made the comment, you and I watch a lot
(09:29):
of horror movies and it is a hallmark of a
lot of them. One of the scariest scenes is the
monster or the killer just a silhouette of that person.
You can't see the face, and that's what it looked like.
It was a creepy, creepy picture. And he's all black,
one hundred degree a day, fully in all black.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, And first of all, when if you're a hiker,
you don't typically see people all in all black, in
long sleeves when it's that hot outside, with a duffle
back the way he had it, it wasn't even like a
hiker's backpack. It was more like a duffel amesh duffle ball,
So he had something in there.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
It just looked eerie.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And certainly, when you see the mugshot of this man
compared to the sketch, I think it's spot on, do.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
You not, Oh? Almost goodness, it's just the hat. And
again where he was caught. We were just commenting a
second ago. All the descriptions said a guy in a
dark hat and then we got word that he was
arrested at a barber shop. Yes, at a salon in Springdale,
mid haircut, we're told police go in, they cover the front,
they cover the back. They apparently saw a vehicle that
(10:32):
matched a description, so they go in looking for the guy.
He's in the chair getting a haircut, and in his
post arrest picture looks like they didn't finish his haircut.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah, he actually looks like a man who had half
his haircut and still was in need of it. And
the woman who was actually cutting his hair, this was
at Lupita's beauty salon and barber shop in Springdale. She
actually took pictures of his of police had actually used
part of his hair as evidence, and then his vehicle.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
She was taking videos and pictures.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
She can you imagine you're cutting a customer's hair and
police storm in and arrest him, and you realize that
this person who you were touching, who you were that
close with, was this double murder suspect that police had
been searching for for five days. I can't even get
my head around what that must have been like for her.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
You know that anybody who's been to a swan, anybody
ever had a haircut. It is a very intimate experience.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
It is.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Folks have to be right up on you, right up under,
you're touching you in all kinds of ways. And to again,
that thought rolled to me. I've been in places with
murderers on the other side of a jail cell, right,
and that scares the hell.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Out of me.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Oh yeah, it's eerie. A's hell.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I mean to think the guy somebody it's capable of
doing what he's accused of, is the guy you're casually
just around is absolutely terrifying.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And yeah, and it's one of those other moments where look,
police right now have said they don't believe that McGahn
knew his victims or had any reason why he would
have chosen those people and that family in particular, But
it's so fascinating to think how he chose, why he chose.
So he passes this one family with the dog who
(12:19):
take note of him but doesn't bother them. He's walking
around town apparently in Springdale, decides not to attack anybody else.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
He's in a barber shop.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
He's peaceful and calm. You know, It's just so it's
unexplicable and it's unimaginable. How and why someone like that
would make the choices.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
That he did.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
But folks, it was shocking the crime. Several days of
the man hunt, it was intense, It was terrifying. But
then comes the arrest and then we learn who this
guy is, and this guy has been teaching elementary school
students for the past several years. Allry, folks. We continue
(13:15):
now with the word of James Andrew mcgahann, a twenty
eight year old man who has now been charged with
two counts of capital murder and the death of two
hikers who are hiking in Arkansas at Devil's Den State
Park along with their young children. They were killed last Saturday.
After five day manhunt, they have finally tracked him down
and rose, I don't know if we gave it good enough.
Perspective of northwest Arkansas, I guess most people are familiar
(13:40):
with the University of Arkansas and Fayetteville up there in
northwest Arkansas. Obviously I'm familiar to where I went to school.
So if you go to Faytteville, you go about ten
miles north and you hit Springdale. But if you're in
Faydville and you go about twenty five miles south you
hit Devil's Den State Park, So it's about thirty five
miles between Devil'sden State Park where the murders happened, and
(14:03):
Springdale ultimately, so it appears that is where certainly he
was spending his time. He was living in robes, he
was about to start working.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Can you imagine if you have a child in that
school system and you just think about the fact that
if he hadn't been caught.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
When does school start there pretty soon? Correct?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I mean down there, it's usually like early to mid August,
So he could have been in a classroom with children
in a matter of days or at least in a
matter of a week or two, if he had not
been caught, and if those folks who hadn't recognized him
or recognized that he looks strange given those descriptions to
police handed over the videos and photos that they had.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Some folks had.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
One guy had a video of a car of the car,
and that is how they were able to get it.
I actually watched that video online today. So just people
who inadvertently happened to capture him. All of this video,
all this technology handed over to pull allowed them to
zero in on this man. But had that not been
the case, it is so frightening to think he could
have been hiding in plain sight and teaching your children.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
And you don't. You mentioned the car, and what is
important to make the note of it was duct tape
on the license plate. And given what he was wearing,
giving what he was carrying, he seemed like he was
going out there with a purpose. This was premeditated. Well,
did he just go out there to find someone to kill?
(15:31):
Was he? I can't imagine. Again, they don't think he
was targeting these folks in particular, So what was his
plan really to find a random person to kill?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Police?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
The only thing they said, and while they did say
yes that they don't believe that he knew his victims,
but they did say that they didn't want to address
motive right now. So I read into that that perhaps
they do have an idea, they're just not ready to
reveal it yet, because again, everyone in these cases wants
to know the why, not that it helps, not that
it necessarily, it doesn't bring anyone back, it doesn't alleviate grief,
(16:03):
but just to understand, perhaps in order to prevent, but
really it's just it's mind.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Boggling, and you know I mentioned after you said it,
he said, Hey, this guy soon could have been teaching kids. Now,
it seems they say he hadn't started yet, and he
had not interacted with any of the students or any
of the parents. But I'm looking at the website here.
School starts in a matter of two weeks August eleventh.
He was that close to being in a classroom, they say,
(16:30):
August eleventh, Yes, first day of school in Springdale.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
They said he hadn't interacted with students or parents. They
didn't necessarily say he hadn't interacted with other teachers, because
you know, teachers go back early, they get their classroom
set up. No word yet if anyone had actually interacted
with him.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Had he been in the school already at this point.
Don't teachers go and prep My mom also the elementary
school teacher. She seemed like she worked all summer.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
To me, absolutely, And you know, he again passed those
background checks in the Springdale public school system. He also
did in the Oklahoma school system he was working in.
He was also licensed to teach in the state of
Texas as well, so you know he had access to children.
It's just we it's so frightening thing goodness, he was caught.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
When he was caught, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
If folks will wonder about background checks, and at least
two I think, or maybe even three school districts he's
worked with put out statements pretty quickly saying, yes, he
worked here, this is when, this is when he left,
and he passed all background checks. Yes, teachers have to
do it. How do you what signs were missed?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Right?
Speaker 1 (17:33):
And it's not a suggestion that any of these school
district did anything wrong. But if a guy passes a
background check, how do you register? How do you sit
across a table from somebody and go, yeah, this might
be a killer. We're not going to hire this one,
even though he has a resume that shows he's worked
as a teacher in several other school districts. I don't
know what you could possibly do about it.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I think we will be hearing from parents, students, folks
who actually were in his classrooms, and I'm really curious
to hear what their take was of him. Did they
not notice anything, did he pass as a normal, friendly
elementary school teacher, or did people always feel like he
(18:11):
had strange energy or they got bad vibes from him?
And I'm hoping, and I can only imagine most people
will say, holy crab, this guy taught me or this
guy taught my kids, and I you know, parent student
excuse me, parent teacher conferences. I mean, he had to
have had interactions with lots of folks over the last
several years dealing with their most prized possession, their children.
(18:34):
So people, you remember teachers, and you really remember teachers
that you don't like or you don't think are good
for your kids.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
So I am very.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Curious because obviously his name just came out, but I
could only imagine we're going to be hearing a lot about.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Who this guy was leading up to this vicious attack.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
All right, guys, we're going to keep an eye on
all that's happening in this case. Yes, there's some relief
in northwest Arkansas that a potential killer, the killer is
potentially off off the streets. Yes, it's clearness. To make
this point. Police up there do not believe there is
a continued threat to the community because of these murders.
They believe they have their guy, Their guy will be
(19:14):
in court tomorrow. Has he interruptedly yet at all?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
No, we haven't heard anything about the plea, just that
He's been charged with two counts of capital murder and
he could face the death penalty in the state of Arkansas.
There are twenty three people on death row in Arkansas
right now, so this is a state that has no
problem putting people on death row. But yes, his hearing
is tomorrow, August first, and we will of course give
(19:37):
you all the latest details as they become available in
terms of just who this man was, any more information
and certainly what the courts decide to do with him tomorrow.
In the meantime, though, want to thank you for listening.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I'm Amy Robach alongside my partner T. J. Holmes.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
We hope you have a wonderful day today.
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Zima
Chris Harrison
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