January 16, 2023 • 47 mins
Chris comes right at the latest headlines involving Nick Viall. So many questions… Was there shade or wasn’t there? Can you get canceled again after you’ve already been canceled? Plus, the “were you fired?” debate gets put to bed. And stand by your mate… relationship advice for listeners!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the most dramatic podcast ever, and I heart
radio podcast. Welcome to the most dramatic podcast ever. I'm
Chris Harrison. What an unbelievable week it's been. What a moving,
emotional week it has been, and it's all because of you, guys.
(00:22):
I was a little bit scared two do this podcast,
jump into this endeavor and be so honest and vulnerable
with you, and you have embraced and been so spectacular,
and you've taken the podcast to number one in its
first week, and I just wanted to say thank you.
(00:43):
We are humbled. I say we because Elsie is sitting
right next to me, and we are just so humbled,
so grateful. We love you guys so very much, and
it has made me so enthusiastic about jumping into this
week and conte enuing on with this project. And here's
where I want to start today. The headlines. The first
(01:06):
headline that immediately came after the show aired, Chris Harrison
shades Nick Vial, and then right after that, Nick Vale
shades Chris Harrison. Let me clear this up very quickly.
Nick is a friend of mine. Nick was very supportive
(01:26):
of me when I was going through all this. He
defended my character. I've been on his podcast. We talked
from time to time. As he said, we're not besties.
We don't hang out every day, we don't barbecue all
the time. But I consider him a friend. And he
did defend me, and he allowed people to come on
his show and defend me, and for that, I'm very
grateful and I appreciate it. And there was no shade
(01:51):
being thrown at Nick. And then a couple of days later,
I realized why Nick was so sensitive to that moment
and didn't want this kind of press. He got engaged.
He got down on one knee and proposed to Natalie,
and he got engaged. And I first and foremost want
(02:12):
to say congratulations. I'm so happy for them. I talked
to Nick and then we FaceTime to actually after the engagement.
I saw the beautiful ring on Natalie's finger. It is stunning,
by the way, nice work, and Lauren and I send
our love. We are so happy for them. We can't
wait to hear about wedding plans and all the great
things to come. Um. But yeah, I see the timing
(02:34):
of last week and those headlines not great. Sorry, pal,
that was kind of crappy. Um. The other headline, I
have to talk about the saga and Good Morning America
with Amy Robock and t J Holmes. I have a
lot of strong opinions about this. This is personal. A
(02:56):
report came out that Amy and t J had been
let go and that they have lawyered up. And to that,
I say, good for you, guys, good for you for
those of you to catch up. They had been I
guess suspended, taken off the air from g M A
(03:17):
three where they were co hosting, and they've they've had
this affair, and man, do I have strong feelings about this,
first of all, very uh sympathetic and empathetic, understanding really
what they're going through. And I'm not talking about morally,
say what you will about how this has all happened
and their affairs and how they've handled this. I will
(03:40):
say this, none of us know. You don't know what's
happening in anyone's house. You don't know. And this is
not to excuse anything, but we have no idea. You
have no idea what's going on in your neighbor's house
right now, even if you see them every day, you
don't know. And it is this irony is not lost
on me that they are going through the exact same thing.
(04:01):
And then the headlines come out that they have both
lawyered up and they are both fighting this, And to that,
I say, good on you, good on you. You guys go,
I've been in this business for a long time. You
sign these contracts. There are morality clauses in there. Is
(04:23):
it morally reprehensible to fall in love? Because that's what
they've done. That is the crime that they are being
punished for, is falling in love? And is it morally reprehensible?
Is it against the law to fall in love with
someone at work that is equal to you? They're on
(04:45):
level footing, they were co hosts. Is it illegal or
wrong to fall in love with someone equal to you
and to follow those feelings? And if everybody knew about
this s which you know all the sources from inside
are saying. And by the way I've worked in newsrooms,
there are no secrets that this was the worst kept
(05:07):
secret at g m A. Everybody knew about it. The
co host knew about it. And for them now to
get on this moral hi box and say, well, we
just found out about this, you know, we we we
have to take a stand morally you knew about this,
and now you're taking a stand because well maybe you
(05:29):
don't feel like it looks good publicly. That's totally different.
So t J and Amy, good on, you fight the
good fight. I was going to suggest, by the way,
I have an amazing lawyer if you guys need um,
and he kind of knows the opponent. So let me
know if you need anything. I'm Amy and t J.
I'm here for you. Um. And again, this isn't to
(05:51):
say what's happened in their own houses, what happened in
their own bedrooms. I don't know. You know. I can
read the tabloids like you, but they don't know either.
It's all speculation. Um. And I know the feeling of
being at work on a Monday and then on Tuesday
(06:13):
you're being pulled off the air and you are being ostracized,
backs are being turned by your co host, by your
co workers. Your whole life has changed. Their whole life.
Think of a snow globe. Their whole life is a
snow globe that just got picked up and shaken. And
again I'm not defending anything because I don't know the
(06:33):
facts behind everything. This is just my my gut, my emotions,
after what I have been through and knowing, man, this
this there's a lot of similarities to this. UM And
I'm sitting here with l Z and I have to
bring her in on this because we went through this together.
I feel for them so much because of some of
(06:54):
the stuff I've read. And look, we talked about how
you can't always believe what sources say. But when I
was re ng some of the reports I saw actually
one day before the news came out that they were
let go. They were let go on Friday, and I
believe on Thursday there was a report that said, um,
Amy and t J are expecting this to, you know,
(07:15):
be just fine. They think that things are going to
cool down and there's no grounds to fire them on
and they won't be fired. A source was saying, And
I have to say that sounded very familiar to me.
All that that, uh, you know, you're being told, oh
think you know, let's things are cool, don't worry UM
And Look, I just feel for them on that. Like
(07:41):
you were saying, they're in a relationship. I don't think
they did anything wrong work wise, right, It doesn't seem
like they did to me. They're being let go. In
my opinion because of just how things look and so
the fact that they've lawyered up, yeah, good for them.
So here's my show idea. I'm gonna throw you a pitch,
(08:06):
and you know, just to show that I'm a good guy,
I'm gonna save Good Morning America. And this is a
one time offer for ABC and g m A. I
will come back for one day and I will host
Good Morning America and I will do a sit down
(08:27):
with Amy and t J. This is what they should
have done from the start, but I'm here to save
the day. You're welcome. I will host a tell all,
we'll sit down, We'll hash all this out with Amy
and t J. If you tell me, that wouldn't get
the biggest ratings in the history of g m A.
(08:49):
That would be a massive show, a sit down where
we hash all this out. But that's my pitch. Would
would you let t J and Amy ask you questions
as well? It would be a forum, obviously I would.
I would want to talk more about them, but yeah,
I would. It would be a given a take and
I think it would be spectacular. I saw a comment
(09:14):
the other day from Lisa Renna, who just left her
Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. She said on an Instagram
messy equals ratings, and there has never been a more clear,
simple and dead on way of putting it. Well, here's
the thing, in all seriousness at ABC News, lean into it.
Whether it's Lisa Renna's point to the messy, lean into
the story instead of running and hiding and then speculation
(09:37):
and you leave, you leave a vacuum. I remember reading
there was some I'm going to forget the outlet, but
this article about how brands are now brands and companies
make their decisions based on social media feedback now right.
And on the one hand, that can be a great thing.
It can be a great way to access your audience.
I think it was awesome on The Bachelor in many ways.
(09:58):
But on the other hand, I do think companies are
making decisions about people's lives and careers based on a
couple of voices on Twitter, and Twitter is not representative
of how the general public feels. The numbers aren't even
there to support that, not even close. It is a
minute percentage of people who are on Twitter, and what
(10:21):
happens is two or three tweets get pulled for a
clickbait headline. For an outlet, and then everything feels bigger
than it is, or one opinion feels bigger than it is,
and companies get scared. So Amy and t J. I
feel for you, guys. I very much sympathize with what
you're going through, and I can only imagine how your
(10:41):
world has been turned upside down. Um it's it. I
feel a little gutted again just just seeing those headlines.
And just because I know you. You guys, you two
are up against one of the biggest companies in the world,
and and I'm glad you have each other. I hope
you still have each other. I hope they're working as
a team on us. But legally this is going to
(11:02):
be fascinating as well, because you remember it was Amy
Roeback who had the nuts on the Epstein story. Remember
when that Remember when the leaked tape got out. So
Amy Roeback got caught on that hot Mike moment where
she said, we had Epstein dead to rights, we had
all of this, and then man did that story just disappear?
(11:23):
And man did Amy just disappear quickly after that? Meaning
she was saying that she had the story and Epstein
and she said something like they wouldn't let her do
the story. And remember she got she got silenced. So
they've lawyered up. And this is going to be nasty.
It'll probably be pretty quiet. It'll be for the most
(11:47):
part out of the public eye. I'm sure things will
be leaked. I'm sorry, sources will say. Um. And so
this will be a very fascinating story. Worry to follow,
and I will be following with my heart. Um. And again,
make no bones about it. I'll tell you which side
(12:08):
I'm on. I'll take David every time. Watch out for
the slingshot Goliath. Okay, So with those headlines out of
the way, I also want this week, in this episode
(12:31):
to be hearing from you, um, all of the fans,
the listeners and getting your takes. And so I see
and I'm guys, I'm new at this, so give me
a break. But I see we have a collar on
the line. So I hope I don't screw this up.
I hope I don't hang up on this person. Uh
who's with me? And Uh? What's on your mind? Who's
on the line? Hi, my name is Missy. Hey missy,
(12:54):
how are you doing crazy crazy times right now? Yeah?
What is what's your question or what's your comment. I
have a lot of questions for you. Oh gosh, okay, Um, well, first,
I'm a reality show junkie. I will admit I haven't
(13:14):
seen the last couple of seasons of the Bachelor, but
I do still watch Bachelor in Paradise and I recently
got into Love Is Blind, which has been huge. Have
you watched that? You know? I watched a little bit
of it. I always watch a little bit of everything
just to see what's in the marketplace and like who's
hosting and how they're doing it and how it's different. Um,
(13:36):
so yes, I have watched it. I'm not a devout fan, right, Okay,
I'm a new fan. I just finished season three, went
back to season one, and I'm going to season two.
But I mean, I guess you don't watch it too much.
But I just wanted your thoughts because it seems like
there's actually more successful couples that last coming out of
(13:56):
that show than the Bachelor. Interesting. Um, and I don't
know why that is or but well, first of all,
they have a very short track record. What have they
had three or four seasons, but they've got like six
couples in each season. So the odds are probably right. Well,
and you mentioned you mentioned something interesting about Paradise. Um.
You know, obviously the backs for backs arette you have
(14:18):
one shot at making one relationship work, and that's a
very difficult thing as opposed to on Paradise we have
what you know, five six, seven, eight different men and women.
Of course, the percentages, yeah, the percentages are higher for sure,
and that you know, that's that's an interesting concept when
you start talking about what kind of show you're gonna produce,
(14:39):
you know, are you going to give one person a chance?
And it's it's a it's a real lightning in a
bottle moment to make something like that work, to just
have one person find love because there's so many variables.
So you know, I like those concepts like a love
is blind and like some of these other shows that
have come to the forefront and really taken over as
far as social relevance goes. Do you think, Missy, I'm
(15:01):
can I pipe in with a follow up question because
I'm so interested in this path you've taken us on
high Missy, do you think though that that you just
said on Bachelor Bachelorette it's one relationship? Do you also
think part of the reason the Paradise couples were more
successful is because the pressure level was different on those
couples versus the bachelor and the bachelorette had so much
(15:23):
to answer to from everybody. You're right, there is definitely
something to that having been in that an environment, that arena,
there is a lot of pressure on being the one
person as opposed to you can fly under the radar.
I mean, I remember when Jaden Tanner came in and
they just kind of disappeared and had their own little
love story going and we just kind of followed along.
So there definitely is a difference in in the pressure
(15:44):
of all that. Missy, what else you got? How hard
is it actually in paradise because these people all look
like they're sweating all the time, and how do they
sleep in that? And it's not, by the way, it's
not just paradise. Um. You know, you have these locations.
South Africa comes to mind, Bora, Bora, and they're beautiful,
they're exotic. Thailand, oh my gosh. You know, humid it
(16:06):
gets you don't even you don't know if the heat
is coming from above or below. You're just sweating out
of places you didn't even know you had um. It
is remarkably difficult, not not just for the cast, and
it is hard to let me bring back something else. Also,
when we're in Paradise, there is a time when the
crabs are born and hatched and then migrate, and that
(16:31):
typically happens while we're shooting. So in the middle of
this you have the crabs and I'm talking hundreds and
thousands walking through the set over you onto the beach
to go be free, and it's like, so the things
you deal with are really bizarre. And yes, the the heat,
the sweat, and then, by the way, then you're in
(16:52):
Iceland and you're freezing to death, So those those elements
always come into play as well. I actually once started
compiling and I never in it, so I give this
to another journalist out there. Someone should do it. I
started compiling a list of products from past Paradise sylams
that they used that like worked well against sweat on
the beach, like the best foundation, the best hair stuff.
(17:14):
So somebody should do that. From the cast, I can
tell you from experience. You go past blotting and talcum
powder and bass and you go to a towel. Are
you ross in the with the leather pants. You know,
I was ross exactly. There's not enough talcum powder in
the world you'd use. You know, my makeup artist at
some point just gives up and she's like, here's a
(17:34):
towel because it looks like a bucket was thrown on you. Um, Missy,
thanks for taking me down memory lane there. Did you
have anything else? I guess I do have one question obviously.
You know there's a lot online about like your exit
with where you fired, like what actually happened? Oh, miss
you with the big question at the end. I love it, Missy.
(17:56):
Are you a journalist? Absolutely not. Um, you know what,
I'll jump in, Missy, I'm so glad you asked that
because I see that a lot too, and it's a
bit I get a little defensive when I see people
saying he was fired, um, which I know doesn't come
from a place of malice at all. I think, you know,
(18:20):
people are just kind of assuming or summarizing. When we
did the podcast last week, I saw some people doing
TikTok's about it or whatever, and they're saying, so Chris
talks about when he was fired, and I don't I
don't think it's malicious at all. But I would say,
you know what, No, I'll say it. Chris was not fired.
Chris was not fired. And um, I don't think I
(18:45):
won't say any more than that, Missy. If it were
a relationship, it would be complicated. Hey, thank you so
much for calling in. I love hearing from you. Um,
and I hopefully will talk to you again. Thanks Missy.
By all right, we have another caller. Hi. This is Eileen. Hey, Eileen,
(19:05):
how you doing. You're on with Chris and Lauren. What's
on your mind? So? First of all, I'm a super fan.
I've been watching since day one, since Alex Michelle. Thank
you that. Wow, you just dated yourself. Alex Michelle was
the first Bachelor babe like the I know you know
it's funny. People don't sorry to cut you off only
but people don't remember because he was. It really wasn't
(19:27):
the most popular season as far as ratings go, but
he was. He was number one. It was the spring
of two thousand two. It was Alex Michelle out of Dallas, Texas.
Come on, Eileen with the trivia. I love it. Now.
Do you do you know where he is today? Do
you keep in touch with him? You know, of all
the people I have lost touch with it's Alex Michelle.
(19:49):
I have heard vicious rumors because we tried to track
him down while we were doing the greatest you know
episodes ever whatever it was. I was shooting during the
pandemic in my house and we tried to track him down.
Someone let me know they saw him in New York
City and they saw him actually at the train station.
I think he was walking across Grand Central Station. And
then this sounds real. This sounds like I think this
(20:11):
is real. I really, this is uh, this is like
Michael Jackson. Still I'm true. No, I think no. I
think I've heard he was in New York City. I
heard he's doing good, But no, I've lost touch with him.
I'm so curious to know, what do you think of
the whole Bachelor Nation craze? Like it's did you did
you coin that? Like it's it's insane, like how famous
and just the whole even from Dancing with the Star
(20:34):
as these people win, like I mean a dance like
it's just insane. What what you started? Actually a great question.
I did coin that phrase. I was actually the first
person to use Bachelor Nation. But to me, it's gotten
kind of convoluted. Not that I'm you know, take so
much pride that I upsets me. But no, I I
take pride in the fact I created the Bachelor Nation
(20:55):
phrase and started using it. But I thought of that
as you, you the listener, you the viewer. I meant
it for all of you that I connected with each
and every week that watched and loved the show and
held it so dear. The people that were on the
show were my bachelor family. That's how I referred to them.
And you know, it's this is silly to even get
(21:17):
this deep into the weeds on this, but that's how
I felt. Bachelor Nation was you, and I always thought
that that was sacred. And then some people started saying, oh,
Bachelor Nation, and that's everybody on the show and off,
and so that was my bachelor family. You or my bad.
You were my Bachelor Nation, and now you're my drama
Nation with the most dramatic podcast ever. You have a
(21:38):
few more questions, if you have time, How did you
like originally get the gig? Oh my gosh, Eileen, we're
really going to we're taking deep. Um. You know what's
funny is watching for a long time. So I'm like
you know I'm a fan, thank you. I never auditioned
for the show. I never auditioned. I heard there was
a show that I was on the list for and
at the time they were looking for a kind of
(21:58):
an unknown guy x door who was at the time,
I was married, someone who was married. I was expecting
my first child, my son Josh, who let's date ourselves
now he's a junior in college for crying out loud. Um.
But that was it, and it was a number of
meetings that I had. I never auditioned. There was no
reading for it, as you often do in Hollywood, and
(22:19):
it was really odd. I mean, I don't mean this
in a negative way, but I did less to get
this job than in probably any job I've ever had
where I had to probably audition or or show something. Um.
But they saw something in me that they loved and
they didn't want a big name, and that's that was key,
because really, usually somebody wants a name to launch a show, right.
(22:40):
You want Jimmy Kimmel or Howard Stern or whoever Drew
Carey to come in and host uh Prices, right, because
it's a name that you can kind of sell the
show on. And this particular moment, they didn't they didn't
want that and and for some reason they tapped me
on the shoulder. Was the craziest thing a fan? Like?
(23:01):
What was like? Because you're I know, you're you're spotted
probably everywhere. What's the craziest thing a fan? You know
when they saw you? What they said? Wow? Um hmm.
I've had a lot of I've had I've had, you know,
I get the I get the typical stuff of like, um,
you know Rose guy or hey, you know that? That
(23:22):
part I love And let me just say this, I
love it. I love it all. I love when people
come up to Lauren and I I love when they
because of the people who do come up are just
lovely people and they just want to talk and they
just want to chat. And I love meeting people. And
this is why I love this podcast and talking to you,
because it's just a chance to get to know people
(23:42):
and and hear them. And so I've heard, you know,
I've heard some really uncomfortable stories like I've been sitting
at an airport bar or whatever, and someone will just
be sitting next to me and all of a sudden,
this woman is telling me her sex life and telling
me all about her husband and all, and I'm like, wow,
you know this is getting deep, and so I just
(24:03):
I love the fact though that people feel like, well,
I know you, you're You're Chris, and I can sit
down and talk with you just like everybody else can.
And so I do love the fact sometimes it gets
a little personal, but I love that that is our relationship.
And that's what this podcast is going to be all about,
is you being able to open up to me and
let's just talk. Let's talk relationships, and sometimes it gets
(24:25):
really personal. Are there any like Are there any like
I've always wanted to know? There any like Bachelor of
Bachelrettes that, like you wanted to be the Bachelor of
Bachelorette in the seasons that weren't picked, you know, necessarily
have the same names. But was there anyone that you like,
push for, like you thought would be agreed that never
got a shot. I remember you telling me you thought
Jason Tartet would have been a great bachelor, which is
(24:48):
so wonderful that him and Caitlin are together now. They
still found each other through the show. But I remember
you saying that you you just thought Jason had it
all and would have been a great bachelor. Well and
going back to another answer, I love Jason, uh you know,
and I love Jason and Caitlin and I'm happy for them.
I'm they're engaged. And I um talk to Jay a
lot because we talked a lot of football stuff. Buffalo guy. Um,
(25:08):
but that is you know, he he was phenomenal. He's
just a good dude, and I think people really uh
related to him, and so there there were definitely people
along the way that I had opinions just like you did. Eileen.
Thank you so much for calling in. I really appreciate it.
I love doing this. This is what it's all about, Eileen.
Thank you for watching since the beginning. My gosh, thank you,
(25:32):
thank you. You know, thanks Eileen. You know what's funny
is people that will come up to me or or
direct message, and I've gotten a lot of these this
week of I've been watching you since I was, you know,
a kid, My mom and I would watch or I've
been watching since i was ten, or I've been watching
since i was twenty years old. And I'm like, I
love that, and man, that makes me feel a little
(25:54):
aged older. I'm like he was like, oh my, you know,
but I do love those stories because this show connected people.
What I did and what I was a part of
connected people. You watched with your mom, you watched with
your dad. It was the only thing maybe you talked about,
and if nothing else, I love that. Hey, Chris, this
(26:23):
is Lisa. Hey Lisa. How's it going today? Um? Going? Wow? Good?
Sitting in this rain, it's kind of cozy inside. You
must be West Coast, California, California store. Yes, Um, So
what's on your mind? What are your questions? So I
am curious. I'm just I'm wondering how it all felt when, um,
(26:43):
everything went down, because it felt like your career could
be over and it was so public, um, and you
are such a pro with such amazing talent, and I'm
sure it wasn't easy achieving what you did and getting
to where you were, And I'm just wondering if you
can talk about, um, what it was like when it
all happened, and how it felt, and like specifically how
(27:05):
you poked and how you actually moved forward, um, because
like it just felt like such a blow that you know,
many of us experienced stuff like that, but not really Well,
good question, Lisa. Thanks, I it didn't feel good. Um.
But career wise, you know, it was interesting. When I
was in the middle of it, I never worried about
(27:26):
my job and I knew maybe it was on the line,
but I wasn't worried about my job. But later when
everything kind of settled, when the dust settled, I definitely had,
you know, those thoughts when I was lying awake at
night thinking huh, what's next and figuring out what that
(27:49):
was going to be. I gave myself and I used
this word a lot, but I gave myself a little
grace and I had to just Lauren will love this
because I'm going to use a sports term. I called
a time out um and did a little long commercial
break to take stock of my life. And I don't
know what gave me the pause or the ability to
(28:12):
do this, but I was able to kind of step
back and say, look, and this reminds me of a relationship,
and maybe it helped. Thankfully, I went through a crazy
divorce of don't just jump into something, and I've been
offered things. I've you know, people immediately started kind of
pitching me ideas and um, and I love that and
I appreciated that, but I don't know it just felt
like maybe I shouldn't get married again so soon. Maybe
(28:35):
I don't need to be dating right away. And and
I mean that in a professional sense of I need
to stop for a second, step away, spend some time
fall in love with the woman that that I was
falling in love with, spend some time with my kids,
get them through senior year of high school into college.
And I just felt like there would be time for this,
(28:58):
There would be time for me later, and I would
get back to it. So I just I don't know
if that makes sense, but I guess what I thought was,
I'm just going to put a pen in this for now,
um and let it come about naturally. And it's what
I did after my divorce and it worked, and so
I thought, maybe I'll just apply this here, um and
and so far, knock on wood, So good, right, Kelsy,
(29:21):
I mean, we're in love, right, This is good, it's working, okay, good,
But no, it's very thoughtful, because Lisa, I think it's
it's if I'm being honest, I had those moments. Of course,
I had those moments when I thought to myself, I'm
only fifty, I'm not done. You know. I love what
I do I love creating, I love producing, I love hosting.
UM So I'm not done, but I need to be
(29:44):
done for the moment. I need to just take take
a moment here that's super interesting, Like, do you feel
like it? In some ways it sounds like there was
a gift there in getting to spend time with your family,
more time than you would have my gosh, but do
you feel like it changed you as a person, Like
as a person or as a professional, like any of it.
(30:05):
There's no way you come out of this unscathed and unchanged.
There's no way you have to grow. Um, it's just impossible.
We've we I say we because Lauren has been with
me every step of the way. We've definitely changed and
grown together. UM. I said this in an earlier episode
where you're as you get older, your circle gets smaller,
(30:28):
anyway gets tighter. Um. T J. Holmes and Amy Roebeck
are about to go through this. People you think are
your friends, people you think are going to stand beside you, don't. UM.
Co workers, people you work with, people you work for.
You will be surprised, good and bad, um by how
people react. And so yeah, your your circle changes, your
(30:49):
perspective changes. Luckily, I always had a good head on
my shoulders. I have been blessed with an amazing family. UM.
And I know people get a little weary and wheezy
easy about this when I mentioned faith, But I'm strong
in my faith. And so those were the things I
knew were important. And I preached this to my kids,
and you got to live it if you're going to
preach it, and that is remember what's important, Remember who's important.
(31:13):
And I never defined myself by my career, and so
when that was taken away, when that was stripped away,
I was okay. I found solace and I found strength
and what I always found strength then. And I think
to your question, if I had lost what I found
strength and pride in my family, that would have been
(31:34):
what's gutting. But I always had that and so I
was always able to wake up every day and just
keep moving forward. I love that. So important and such
good advice. UM, So important and important to remember to
prioritize that stuff always. Um. Can I ask one more question?
You bet? One more Lisa? Okay, UM, So do you
(31:55):
feel like you have to be overly censored now after
what happened? Like, do you feel like you're going to
be canceled again, and like specifically, like it just feels
like such a fine line between making sure that everyone
in our society feels valued and included, which I do
think is really important. Um, but also with censorship, which
(32:16):
I mean I personally feel it's not a good thing. Um.
You know, people may disagree. Um, people do disagree, right, Um,
But I feel like it's such a balance between the
two because, particularly in the media, I just don't think
censorship is a good thing. I think we need to
know stuff and here stuff. So yeah, So just wondering like,
(32:36):
how do you how do you approach that now, or
how do you think through that or think about it?
That's such a good question. I was, as you were
asking your other question and about how Chris has changed,
I was going to challenge him a little bit and say,
but don't you think you've changed on that? Actually? I
mean I feel I've changed. I have definitely gotten more. Um,
(32:59):
I've shut down out a little bit as a person.
I'm actually trying to push myself back to the open, fun,
silly person and that side of myself that I used
to be. I find myself so cautious. I find myself
you know, I think the hardest part about all this
for us is probably that you start to question your gut.
(33:20):
Um we you know, everybody says trust your gut, but
when you are trying to be open and then you're
you find yourself in being told to be quiet and everything. Um,
it's hard. And I have to say that it's so
important to remember that so many marginalized communities have felt
this way for such a long time. And so I
(33:43):
I don't know, I mean, as a woman, we felt
that it's all it's all these things to remember that
people can feel hurt and in pain, and that we
have to remember to try to be as sensitive as
we can. Um. So I but I have found myself.
Yet you on the one hand, you want to be
careful and then on the their hand, you have to
remind yourself like be who you are and hopefully say
(34:06):
what you think without hurting anyone, and hopefully say what
you think without getting shut down it. But it's a
really hard to do. Well, it's a tough line to walk, right,
I mean, doing this podcast. This is episode three. I
was scared to death those first two episodes. I was
very careful and I've always been careful about how I speak.
(34:26):
I I try to always think. And that's why, honestly,
going back to that interview, why it was just such
a bizarre moment, even for me looking back, because I'm
usually so much more thoughtful and careful about how I
speak in people's feelings and how my words will be taken.
But now, even more than than ever, I care and
(34:50):
I also worry about it, you know, because and I
realized there's there's this is a double edged sword, and
two sides of this, and this might seem contradictory, but
it's not. I I'm careful. I want to be marked,
but at the same time, I want to be open
and honest with you, and I know that that's going
to ruffle feathers. I know that I can't please everybody,
and so you can't go through life walking on eggshells
(35:12):
hoping everybody's going to be happy with me. I'm gonna
please everybody. Luckily, I got over that a long time ago,
because you can't live this life. I've lived in the
public eye for so long and not take shots. You know,
people will come at you for for all kinds of things.
Luckily I have a thick skin. But it's different now.
And it's different for me now because of what I've
(35:33):
gone through. And can I be canceled again? Probably? I
don't know. I you know, I'm sure, I'm sure I
could go somewhere, you know, and and make that happen.
But you know, it's it's a delicate tightrope and it
always has been, but I think now more than ever.
And Lisa, thank you so much for the thoughtful questions.
(35:53):
These questions have been amazing today. Well, thanks so much
for your answers. And I'm so glad you're back, So
glad you're doing this podcast. I can't wait to keep
hearing it. Lisa, thank you so much. I love this.
I love taking these phone calls. I love hearing from you.
Um getting a chance to talk to you dramination. Hi Chris,
(36:23):
this is Sam. Hey Sam, how you doing. I'm good?
How are you excellent? Thank you? Beautiful day? Good. Yes, UM,
I have a first I have a few questions, but UM,
I first wanted to ask you, you know, after everything happened,
did you ever have like a big breakdown moment, like
you know, crying on your hands and knees, or like
(36:45):
crying in your bed. I imagine that must have been
very hard after everything happened. Yeah, yeah, Um. There were
all kinds of moments. Um. There was one in particular.
I remember Lauren sitting here. I had just gotten off
(37:11):
I had so many phone calls and and things would
just go on for all day, and by the end
of the day I was usually just like wrung out.
I was done, so was so was l z. Um.
But I remember something in particular happened, and I don't
even recall exactly what it was, not that I could
probably tell you, but um, and that doesn't matter. I
walked into the kitchen and and Lauren was there, and
(37:36):
I just looked at her and I was I was done.
And I don't necessarily know if I fell fell to
my knees or anything that dramatic, but I just I
just remember that specific moment where I think we both
cried a little bit because it meant so much to us.
But there were there were many moments like that, UM,
(37:59):
where he felt a little overwhelmed and and and again
to go back to t J. Holmes and Amy Roeback, Um,
in all seriousness with them at g m A and
what they're going through right now, I know that feeling
of the world feels like it's against you. When you're
(38:21):
facing such a big foe and it's coming from all
sides and you're trying to figure out what's best for everybody,
it's really difficult. And so that's why you know, my
heart goes out to them, um, no matter what the
facts are behind the scenes, UM, because I just got it.
(38:44):
That part was triggering, because yeah, I just even now,
I feel it in my gut. I know the moment
where I felt the worst about everything, which was sorry,
who's the caller? I'm so sorry? Sam? I am I
get I don't know. I feel like I feel like
Sam just took us into therapy and I'm gonna lay
(39:07):
down on the couch right now, Sam, Sam, that was
That's such a good question. I would have asked, and
I did have asked in a million interviews. What was
the moment you knew it was over? What was the
moment you knew you were done? When? When did you
break down? Um? By the way, there were many times
where I don't know how Chris didn't break down more.
I yelled at him a lot. I was very UM.
(39:29):
I tried. There were moments where I tried to be
strong and then there were moments where I would lose it. Um,
but I the moment that is maybe the most painful
for me actually to look back on, was the night
before you did the g M A interview. You were
(39:49):
sitting in bed, and I just remember feeling like, um, sorry,
It's funny how quickly I still cry. Um, Like you
weren't yourself. You were sitting there and like trying to,
you know, be so prepared for this because you wanted
(40:11):
to do right by everybody in that interview, and I
remember you're saying something like, you know, I don't know
how to follow my gut anymore here, and you were not.
You just weren't yourself to me, and I had a
bad feeling that I just felt like he's in such
(40:33):
a dark, confused place that he doesn't know how to
answer from. He doesn't know how to operate, you know,
as himself anymore. And gosh, it was it's very scary
when you get to that place. That was the toughest moment,
and I didn't know how to get you back. So Sam,
thanks for taking any gosh, I don't mean to depress you, Sam,
(40:58):
any other questions. No, thank you so much for sharing
that and actually Lauren, I'm glad you're there too, because, Um,
I actually had a question for you because I was wondering, like,
did anyone ever tell you that you should break up
with Chris during any of this? Like that must have
been a weird spot good question you put in. So
(41:20):
I was just wondering what happened, uh during that time too,
and if anyone ever said anything to you like that, Sam,
Yes they did. Um. Yes, I got d M s
from people telling me to break up with Chris. Um.
I got d M s from people telling me how
could I stay with Chris. Um. I had people in
(41:43):
the industry telling me that I should protect myself and
that from my career I should break up with Chris. Um.
So yes, And I guess to take it to I mean,
maybe to expand and say the reason I didn't do that,
um was because, like I said, Chris, I mean, I'm
(42:05):
divorced too, and to me, everybody is going to make mistakes.
I said this last week, It's all about how you
respond from those mistakes. UM. I did not break up
with Chris. That was never even on my mind because
right away Chris knew he had been imperfect, knew he
(42:28):
had made a mistake, knew that he'd hurt people, and
he was so sorry for hurting people. Um, and he
right away was thinking about how to make that better,
how to do right by everybody, how to fix everything. So,
oh my gosh, I had seen who Chris really was
in a million moments other than that interview, and I
(42:52):
saw the capability of his heart and who he could
be in a million moments after that interview and since
so breaking up with Chris was never an option for me, because,
thank goodness, I know who he is, and he saw
and he showed me who he was even more. Thanks Sam,
(43:13):
I'm so glad that you two are still together and
that you have come out on the other side of this.
So I'm glad to hear that me too. And Sam,
thank you for thank you for your thoughtful questions and
and just thank you for listening to the podcast. I
hope it is what you wanted to be, and I
hope it turns into more of what you want. I
truly appreciate it. I'm very grateful me too. Thank you
(43:35):
so much. I love the show and keep on doing
what you're doing. Thanks Sam, Thank you. Wow, what an
incredible day this has been. What an amazing episode. I
want to thank everybody who called in. I want to
thank everybody for their questions. This has been overwhelming for
Elz and I. This has been incredible and I just
(43:57):
I'm so grateful and truly appreciative and I of this.
I love it. This is this is what I want
to show, not just talking about like what's happened, but
this is what I want to show to be about
where we start getting into stuff, relationships and I. It's
something we all relate to, right. We all have relationships,
we all get in them, we all get out of them.
(44:18):
We all have a great breakup story, a great love story.
So this is what I want to dive into. And
I'm looking so forward to this. So thank you Dramination.
I look forward to so much more and if you
will indulge me, there is one more thing I want
to talk about today, and this is on a very
personal note. And no matter who you are, you can
(44:40):
say you are a self made man or woman. None
of us are self made. We all have teachers, mentors,
just people in our lives that have given us a
leg up, people that have been there, people that got
us from here to there, whatever that moment was, and
I have many people like that in my life, but
(45:01):
I just lost one last week. His name was Brian Harvey.
He was my college soccer coach. For those of you
some know me that I love the game of soccer
and it was my life for a big part of
my childhood and into adulthood. And I played four years
of soccer at Oklahoma City University. The reason I did
so was because of this man, Brian Harvey, who found
(45:23):
me my senior year of high school and recruited me
and took me to o s U where I played
for him. But he was so much more than than
just a coach, um as all mentors, leaders and great
coaches are. He affected my life permanently. He took a young, cocky,
arrogant eighteen year old soccer player that didn't have a
(45:46):
lot of direction and gave him focus, Um, gave him meaning.
He's He's partially the reason that I got into media
and got into sportscasting and and found this avenue in
my life. And he changed. Brian. For those obviously you
don't know, but Brian did more for soccer in Oklahoma
(46:08):
than any human being ever will. He coached for thirty
five years he was an absolute legend in soccer and
especially at OCU. He touched the lives of thousands of
young men and women, whether he coached them at his
club at Ocu, where he coached both the men and
the women, he did youth camps. He touched the lives
(46:32):
of so many of us, and we are all so grateful.
And to Judy and Nicole, his wife and daughter who
um shared him with us, we are so grateful and
sorry and on such a down note, but there are
(46:54):
people in our lives who are so important and never
get a shout out. And and for all the Brian
Harvey's out there, I just want to say thank you
and Harve. This one's dedicated to you. I'll miss you
and I love you, and I'll talk to you all
next week. Thank you for being here, because we have
(47:15):
a lot more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow
us on Instagram at the most dramatic pod ever and
make sure to write us a review and leave us
five stars. I'll talk to you next time.
This is the most dramatic podcast ever, and I heart
radio podcast. Welcome to the most dramatic podcast ever. I'm
Chris Harrison. What an unbelievable week it's been. What a moving,
emotional week it has been, and it's all because of you, guys.
(00:22):
I was a little bit scared two do this podcast,
jump into this endeavor and be so honest and vulnerable
with you, and you have embraced and been so spectacular,
and you've taken the podcast to number one in its
first week, and I just wanted to say thank you.
(00:43):
We are humbled. I say we because Elsie is sitting
right next to me, and we are just so humbled,
so grateful. We love you guys so very much, and
it has made me so enthusiastic about jumping into this
week and conte enuing on with this project. And here's
where I want to start today. The headlines. The first
(01:06):
headline that immediately came after the show aired, Chris Harrison
shades Nick Vial, and then right after that, Nick Vale
shades Chris Harrison. Let me clear this up very quickly.
Nick is a friend of mine. Nick was very supportive
(01:26):
of me when I was going through all this. He
defended my character. I've been on his podcast. We talked
from time to time. As he said, we're not besties.
We don't hang out every day, we don't barbecue all
the time. But I consider him a friend. And he
did defend me, and he allowed people to come on
his show and defend me, and for that, I'm very
grateful and I appreciate it. And there was no shade
(01:51):
being thrown at Nick. And then a couple of days later,
I realized why Nick was so sensitive to that moment
and didn't want this kind of press. He got engaged.
He got down on one knee and proposed to Natalie,
and he got engaged. And I first and foremost want
(02:12):
to say congratulations. I'm so happy for them. I talked
to Nick and then we FaceTime to actually after the engagement.
I saw the beautiful ring on Natalie's finger. It is stunning,
by the way, nice work, and Lauren and I send
our love. We are so happy for them. We can't
wait to hear about wedding plans and all the great
things to come. Um. But yeah, I see the timing
(02:34):
of last week and those headlines not great. Sorry, pal,
that was kind of crappy. Um. The other headline, I
have to talk about the saga and Good Morning America
with Amy Robock and t J Holmes. I have a
lot of strong opinions about this. This is personal. A
(02:56):
report came out that Amy and t J had been
let go and that they have lawyered up. And to that,
I say, good for you, guys, good for you for
those of you to catch up. They had been I
guess suspended, taken off the air from g M A
(03:17):
three where they were co hosting, and they've they've had
this affair, and man, do I have strong feelings about this,
first of all, very uh sympathetic and empathetic, understanding really
what they're going through. And I'm not talking about morally,
say what you will about how this has all happened
and their affairs and how they've handled this. I will
(03:40):
say this, none of us know. You don't know what's
happening in anyone's house. You don't know. And this is
not to excuse anything, but we have no idea. You
have no idea what's going on in your neighbor's house
right now, even if you see them every day, you
don't know. And it is this irony is not lost
on me that they are going through the exact same thing.
(04:01):
And then the headlines come out that they have both
lawyered up and they are both fighting this, And to that,
I say, good on you, good on you. You guys go,
I've been in this business for a long time. You
sign these contracts. There are morality clauses in there. Is
(04:23):
it morally reprehensible to fall in love? Because that's what
they've done. That is the crime that they are being
punished for, is falling in love? And is it morally reprehensible?
Is it against the law to fall in love with
someone at work that is equal to you? They're on
(04:45):
level footing, they were co hosts. Is it illegal or
wrong to fall in love with someone equal to you
and to follow those feelings? And if everybody knew about
this s which you know all the sources from inside
are saying. And by the way I've worked in newsrooms,
there are no secrets that this was the worst kept
(05:07):
secret at g m A. Everybody knew about it. The
co host knew about it. And for them now to
get on this moral hi box and say, well, we
just found out about this, you know, we we we
have to take a stand morally you knew about this,
and now you're taking a stand because well maybe you
(05:29):
don't feel like it looks good publicly. That's totally different.
So t J and Amy, good on, you fight the
good fight. I was going to suggest, by the way,
I have an amazing lawyer if you guys need um,
and he kind of knows the opponent. So let me
know if you need anything. I'm Amy and t J.
I'm here for you. Um. And again, this isn't to
(05:51):
say what's happened in their own houses, what happened in
their own bedrooms. I don't know. You know. I can
read the tabloids like you, but they don't know either.
It's all speculation. Um. And I know the feeling of
being at work on a Monday and then on Tuesday
(06:13):
you're being pulled off the air and you are being ostracized,
backs are being turned by your co host, by your
co workers. Your whole life has changed. Their whole life.
Think of a snow globe. Their whole life is a
snow globe that just got picked up and shaken. And
again I'm not defending anything because I don't know the
(06:33):
facts behind everything. This is just my my gut, my emotions,
after what I have been through and knowing, man, this
this there's a lot of similarities to this. UM And
I'm sitting here with l Z and I have to
bring her in on this because we went through this together.
I feel for them so much because of some of
(06:54):
the stuff I've read. And look, we talked about how
you can't always believe what sources say. But when I
was re ng some of the reports I saw actually
one day before the news came out that they were
let go. They were let go on Friday, and I
believe on Thursday there was a report that said, um,
Amy and t J are expecting this to, you know,
(07:15):
be just fine. They think that things are going to
cool down and there's no grounds to fire them on
and they won't be fired. A source was saying, And
I have to say that sounded very familiar to me.
All that that, uh, you know, you're being told, oh
think you know, let's things are cool, don't worry UM
And Look, I just feel for them on that. Like
(07:41):
you were saying, they're in a relationship. I don't think
they did anything wrong work wise, right, It doesn't seem
like they did to me. They're being let go. In
my opinion because of just how things look and so
the fact that they've lawyered up, yeah, good for them.
So here's my show idea. I'm gonna throw you a pitch,
(08:06):
and you know, just to show that I'm a good guy,
I'm gonna save Good Morning America. And this is a
one time offer for ABC and g m A. I
will come back for one day and I will host
Good Morning America and I will do a sit down
(08:27):
with Amy and t J. This is what they should
have done from the start, but I'm here to save
the day. You're welcome. I will host a tell all,
we'll sit down, We'll hash all this out with Amy
and t J. If you tell me, that wouldn't get
the biggest ratings in the history of g m A.
(08:49):
That would be a massive show, a sit down where
we hash all this out. But that's my pitch. Would
would you let t J and Amy ask you questions
as well? It would be a forum, obviously I would.
I would want to talk more about them, but yeah,
I would. It would be a given a take and
I think it would be spectacular. I saw a comment
(09:14):
the other day from Lisa Renna, who just left her
Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. She said on an Instagram
messy equals ratings, and there has never been a more clear,
simple and dead on way of putting it. Well, here's
the thing, in all seriousness at ABC News, lean into it.
Whether it's Lisa Renna's point to the messy, lean into
the story instead of running and hiding and then speculation
(09:37):
and you leave, you leave a vacuum. I remember reading
there was some I'm going to forget the outlet, but
this article about how brands are now brands and companies
make their decisions based on social media feedback now right.
And on the one hand, that can be a great thing.
It can be a great way to access your audience.
I think it was awesome on The Bachelor in many ways.
(09:58):
But on the other hand, I do think companies are
making decisions about people's lives and careers based on a
couple of voices on Twitter, and Twitter is not representative
of how the general public feels. The numbers aren't even
there to support that, not even close. It is a
minute percentage of people who are on Twitter, and what
(10:21):
happens is two or three tweets get pulled for a
clickbait headline. For an outlet, and then everything feels bigger
than it is, or one opinion feels bigger than it is,
and companies get scared. So Amy and t J. I
feel for you, guys. I very much sympathize with what
you're going through, and I can only imagine how your
(10:41):
world has been turned upside down. Um it's it. I
feel a little gutted again just just seeing those headlines.
And just because I know you. You guys, you two
are up against one of the biggest companies in the world,
and and I'm glad you have each other. I hope
you still have each other. I hope they're working as
a team on us. But legally this is going to
(11:02):
be fascinating as well, because you remember it was Amy
Roeback who had the nuts on the Epstein story. Remember
when that Remember when the leaked tape got out. So
Amy Roeback got caught on that hot Mike moment where
she said, we had Epstein dead to rights, we had
all of this, and then man did that story just disappear?
(11:23):
And man did Amy just disappear quickly after that? Meaning
she was saying that she had the story and Epstein
and she said something like they wouldn't let her do
the story. And remember she got she got silenced. So
they've lawyered up. And this is going to be nasty.
It'll probably be pretty quiet. It'll be for the most
(11:47):
part out of the public eye. I'm sure things will
be leaked. I'm sorry, sources will say. Um. And so
this will be a very fascinating story. Worry to follow,
and I will be following with my heart. Um. And again,
make no bones about it. I'll tell you which side
(12:08):
I'm on. I'll take David every time. Watch out for
the slingshot Goliath. Okay, So with those headlines out of
the way, I also want this week, in this episode
(12:31):
to be hearing from you, um, all of the fans,
the listeners and getting your takes. And so I see
and I'm guys, I'm new at this, so give me
a break. But I see we have a collar on
the line. So I hope I don't screw this up.
I hope I don't hang up on this person. Uh
who's with me? And Uh? What's on your mind? Who's
on the line? Hi, my name is Missy. Hey missy,
(12:54):
how are you doing crazy crazy times right now? Yeah?
What is what's your question or what's your comment. I
have a lot of questions for you. Oh gosh, okay, Um, well, first,
I'm a reality show junkie. I will admit I haven't
(13:14):
seen the last couple of seasons of the Bachelor, but
I do still watch Bachelor in Paradise and I recently
got into Love Is Blind, which has been huge. Have
you watched that? You know? I watched a little bit
of it. I always watch a little bit of everything
just to see what's in the marketplace and like who's
hosting and how they're doing it and how it's different. Um,
(13:36):
so yes, I have watched it. I'm not a devout fan, right, Okay,
I'm a new fan. I just finished season three, went
back to season one, and I'm going to season two.
But I mean, I guess you don't watch it too much.
But I just wanted your thoughts because it seems like
there's actually more successful couples that last coming out of
(13:56):
that show than the Bachelor. Interesting. Um, and I don't
know why that is or but well, first of all,
they have a very short track record. What have they
had three or four seasons, but they've got like six
couples in each season. So the odds are probably right. Well,
and you mentioned you mentioned something interesting about Paradise. Um.
You know, obviously the backs for backs arette you have
(14:18):
one shot at making one relationship work, and that's a
very difficult thing as opposed to on Paradise we have
what you know, five six, seven, eight different men and women.
Of course, the percentages, yeah, the percentages are higher for sure,
and that you know, that's that's an interesting concept when
you start talking about what kind of show you're gonna produce,
(14:39):
you know, are you going to give one person a chance?
And it's it's a it's a real lightning in a
bottle moment to make something like that work, to just
have one person find love because there's so many variables.
So you know, I like those concepts like a love
is blind and like some of these other shows that
have come to the forefront and really taken over as
far as social relevance goes. Do you think, Missy, I'm
(15:01):
can I pipe in with a follow up question because
I'm so interested in this path you've taken us on
high Missy, do you think though that that you just
said on Bachelor Bachelorette it's one relationship? Do you also
think part of the reason the Paradise couples were more
successful is because the pressure level was different on those
couples versus the bachelor and the bachelorette had so much
(15:23):
to answer to from everybody. You're right, there is definitely
something to that having been in that an environment, that arena,
there is a lot of pressure on being the one
person as opposed to you can fly under the radar.
I mean, I remember when Jaden Tanner came in and
they just kind of disappeared and had their own little
love story going and we just kind of followed along.
So there definitely is a difference in in the pressure
(15:44):
of all that. Missy, what else you got? How hard
is it actually in paradise because these people all look
like they're sweating all the time, and how do they
sleep in that? And it's not, by the way, it's
not just paradise. Um. You know, you have these locations.
South Africa comes to mind, Bora, Bora, and they're beautiful,
they're exotic. Thailand, oh my gosh. You know, humid it
(16:06):
gets you don't even you don't know if the heat
is coming from above or below. You're just sweating out
of places you didn't even know you had um. It
is remarkably difficult, not not just for the cast, and
it is hard to let me bring back something else. Also,
when we're in Paradise, there is a time when the
crabs are born and hatched and then migrate, and that
(16:31):
typically happens while we're shooting. So in the middle of
this you have the crabs and I'm talking hundreds and
thousands walking through the set over you onto the beach
to go be free, and it's like, so the things
you deal with are really bizarre. And yes, the the heat,
the sweat, and then, by the way, then you're in
(16:52):
Iceland and you're freezing to death, So those those elements
always come into play as well. I actually once started
compiling and I never in it, so I give this
to another journalist out there. Someone should do it. I
started compiling a list of products from past Paradise sylams
that they used that like worked well against sweat on
the beach, like the best foundation, the best hair stuff.
(17:14):
So somebody should do that. From the cast, I can
tell you from experience. You go past blotting and talcum
powder and bass and you go to a towel. Are
you ross in the with the leather pants. You know,
I was ross exactly. There's not enough talcum powder in
the world you'd use. You know, my makeup artist at
some point just gives up and she's like, here's a
(17:34):
towel because it looks like a bucket was thrown on you. Um, Missy,
thanks for taking me down memory lane there. Did you
have anything else? I guess I do have one question obviously.
You know there's a lot online about like your exit
with where you fired, like what actually happened? Oh, miss
you with the big question at the end. I love it, Missy.
(17:56):
Are you a journalist? Absolutely not. Um, you know what,
I'll jump in, Missy, I'm so glad you asked that
because I see that a lot too, and it's a
bit I get a little defensive when I see people
saying he was fired, um, which I know doesn't come
from a place of malice at all. I think, you know,
(18:20):
people are just kind of assuming or summarizing. When we
did the podcast last week, I saw some people doing
TikTok's about it or whatever, and they're saying, so Chris
talks about when he was fired, and I don't I
don't think it's malicious at all. But I would say,
you know what, No, I'll say it. Chris was not fired.
Chris was not fired. And um, I don't think I
(18:45):
won't say any more than that, Missy. If it were
a relationship, it would be complicated. Hey, thank you so
much for calling in. I love hearing from you. Um,
and I hopefully will talk to you again. Thanks Missy.
By all right, we have another caller. Hi. This is Eileen. Hey, Eileen,
(19:05):
how you doing. You're on with Chris and Lauren. What's
on your mind? So? First of all, I'm a super fan.
I've been watching since day one, since Alex Michelle. Thank
you that. Wow, you just dated yourself. Alex Michelle was
the first Bachelor babe like the I know you know
it's funny. People don't sorry to cut you off only
but people don't remember because he was. It really wasn't
(19:27):
the most popular season as far as ratings go, but
he was. He was number one. It was the spring
of two thousand two. It was Alex Michelle out of Dallas, Texas.
Come on, Eileen with the trivia. I love it. Now.
Do you do you know where he is today? Do
you keep in touch with him? You know, of all
the people I have lost touch with it's Alex Michelle.
(19:49):
I have heard vicious rumors because we tried to track
him down while we were doing the greatest you know
episodes ever whatever it was. I was shooting during the
pandemic in my house and we tried to track him down.
Someone let me know they saw him in New York
City and they saw him actually at the train station.
I think he was walking across Grand Central Station. And
then this sounds real. This sounds like I think this
(20:11):
is real. I really, this is uh, this is like
Michael Jackson. Still I'm true. No, I think no. I
think I've heard he was in New York City. I
heard he's doing good, But no, I've lost touch with him.
I'm so curious to know, what do you think of
the whole Bachelor Nation craze? Like it's did you did
you coin that? Like it's it's insane, like how famous
and just the whole even from Dancing with the Star
(20:34):
as these people win, like I mean a dance like
it's just insane. What what you started? Actually a great question.
I did coin that phrase. I was actually the first
person to use Bachelor Nation. But to me, it's gotten
kind of convoluted. Not that I'm you know, take so
much pride that I upsets me. But no, I I
take pride in the fact I created the Bachelor Nation
(20:55):
phrase and started using it. But I thought of that
as you, you the listener, you the viewer. I meant
it for all of you that I connected with each
and every week that watched and loved the show and
held it so dear. The people that were on the
show were my bachelor family. That's how I referred to them.
And you know, it's this is silly to even get
(21:17):
this deep into the weeds on this, but that's how
I felt. Bachelor Nation was you, and I always thought
that that was sacred. And then some people started saying, oh,
Bachelor Nation, and that's everybody on the show and off,
and so that was my bachelor family. You or my bad.
You were my Bachelor Nation, and now you're my drama
Nation with the most dramatic podcast ever. You have a
(21:38):
few more questions, if you have time, How did you
like originally get the gig? Oh my gosh, Eileen, we're
really going to we're taking deep. Um. You know what's
funny is watching for a long time. So I'm like
you know I'm a fan, thank you. I never auditioned
for the show. I never auditioned. I heard there was
a show that I was on the list for and
at the time they were looking for a kind of
(21:58):
an unknown guy x door who was at the time,
I was married, someone who was married. I was expecting
my first child, my son Josh, who let's date ourselves
now he's a junior in college for crying out loud. Um.
But that was it, and it was a number of
meetings that I had. I never auditioned. There was no
reading for it, as you often do in Hollywood, and
(22:19):
it was really odd. I mean, I don't mean this
in a negative way, but I did less to get
this job than in probably any job I've ever had
where I had to probably audition or or show something. Um.
But they saw something in me that they loved and
they didn't want a big name, and that's that was key,
because really, usually somebody wants a name to launch a show, right.
(22:40):
You want Jimmy Kimmel or Howard Stern or whoever Drew
Carey to come in and host uh Prices, right, because
it's a name that you can kind of sell the
show on. And this particular moment, they didn't they didn't
want that and and for some reason they tapped me
on the shoulder. Was the craziest thing a fan? Like?
(23:01):
What was like? Because you're I know, you're you're spotted
probably everywhere. What's the craziest thing a fan? You know
when they saw you? What they said? Wow? Um hmm.
I've had a lot of I've had I've had, you know,
I get the I get the typical stuff of like, um,
you know Rose guy or hey, you know that? That
(23:22):
part I love And let me just say this, I
love it. I love it all. I love when people
come up to Lauren and I I love when they
because of the people who do come up are just
lovely people and they just want to talk and they
just want to chat. And I love meeting people. And
this is why I love this podcast and talking to you,
because it's just a chance to get to know people
(23:42):
and and hear them. And so I've heard, you know,
I've heard some really uncomfortable stories like I've been sitting
at an airport bar or whatever, and someone will just
be sitting next to me and all of a sudden,
this woman is telling me her sex life and telling
me all about her husband and all, and I'm like, wow,
you know this is getting deep, and so I just
(24:03):
I love the fact though that people feel like, well,
I know you, you're You're Chris, and I can sit
down and talk with you just like everybody else can.
And so I do love the fact sometimes it gets
a little personal, but I love that that is our relationship.
And that's what this podcast is going to be all about,
is you being able to open up to me and
let's just talk. Let's talk relationships, and sometimes it gets
(24:25):
really personal. Are there any like Are there any like
I've always wanted to know? There any like Bachelor of
Bachelrettes that, like you wanted to be the Bachelor of
Bachelorette in the seasons that weren't picked, you know, necessarily
have the same names. But was there anyone that you like,
push for, like you thought would be agreed that never
got a shot. I remember you telling me you thought
Jason Tartet would have been a great bachelor, which is
(24:48):
so wonderful that him and Caitlin are together now. They
still found each other through the show. But I remember
you saying that you you just thought Jason had it
all and would have been a great bachelor. Well and
going back to another answer, I love Jason, uh you know,
and I love Jason and Caitlin and I'm happy for them.
I'm they're engaged. And I um talk to Jay a
lot because we talked a lot of football stuff. Buffalo guy. Um,
(25:08):
but that is you know, he he was phenomenal. He's
just a good dude, and I think people really uh
related to him, and so there there were definitely people
along the way that I had opinions just like you did. Eileen.
Thank you so much for calling in. I really appreciate it.
I love doing this. This is what it's all about, Eileen.
Thank you for watching since the beginning. My gosh, thank you,
(25:32):
thank you. You know, thanks Eileen. You know what's funny
is people that will come up to me or or
direct message, and I've gotten a lot of these this
week of I've been watching you since I was, you know,
a kid, My mom and I would watch or I've
been watching since i was ten, or I've been watching
since i was twenty years old. And I'm like, I
love that, and man, that makes me feel a little
(25:54):
aged older. I'm like he was like, oh my, you know,
but I do love those stories because this show connected people.
What I did and what I was a part of
connected people. You watched with your mom, you watched with
your dad. It was the only thing maybe you talked about,
and if nothing else, I love that. Hey, Chris, this
(26:23):
is Lisa. Hey Lisa. How's it going today? Um? Going? Wow? Good?
Sitting in this rain, it's kind of cozy inside. You
must be West Coast, California, California store. Yes, Um, So
what's on your mind? What are your questions? So I
am curious. I'm just I'm wondering how it all felt when, um,
(26:43):
everything went down, because it felt like your career could
be over and it was so public, um, and you
are such a pro with such amazing talent, and I'm
sure it wasn't easy achieving what you did and getting
to where you were, And I'm just wondering if you
can talk about, um, what it was like when it
all happened, and how it felt, and like specifically how
(27:05):
you poked and how you actually moved forward, um, because
like it just felt like such a blow that you know,
many of us experienced stuff like that, but not really Well,
good question, Lisa. Thanks, I it didn't feel good. Um.
But career wise, you know, it was interesting. When I
was in the middle of it, I never worried about
(27:26):
my job and I knew maybe it was on the line,
but I wasn't worried about my job. But later when
everything kind of settled, when the dust settled, I definitely had,
you know, those thoughts when I was lying awake at
night thinking huh, what's next and figuring out what that
(27:49):
was going to be. I gave myself and I used
this word a lot, but I gave myself a little
grace and I had to just Lauren will love this
because I'm going to use a sports term. I called
a time out um and did a little long commercial
break to take stock of my life. And I don't
know what gave me the pause or the ability to
(28:12):
do this, but I was able to kind of step
back and say, look, and this reminds me of a relationship,
and maybe it helped. Thankfully, I went through a crazy
divorce of don't just jump into something, and I've been
offered things. I've you know, people immediately started kind of
pitching me ideas and um, and I love that and
I appreciated that, but I don't know it just felt
like maybe I shouldn't get married again so soon. Maybe
(28:35):
I don't need to be dating right away. And and
I mean that in a professional sense of I need
to stop for a second, step away, spend some time
fall in love with the woman that that I was
falling in love with, spend some time with my kids,
get them through senior year of high school into college.
And I just felt like there would be time for this,
(28:58):
There would be time for me later, and I would
get back to it. So I just I don't know
if that makes sense, but I guess what I thought was,
I'm just going to put a pen in this for now,
um and let it come about naturally. And it's what
I did after my divorce and it worked, and so
I thought, maybe I'll just apply this here, um and
and so far, knock on wood, So good, right, Kelsy,
(29:21):
I mean, we're in love, right, This is good, it's working, okay, good,
But no, it's very thoughtful, because Lisa, I think it's
it's if I'm being honest, I had those moments. Of course,
I had those moments when I thought to myself, I'm
only fifty, I'm not done. You know. I love what
I do I love creating, I love producing, I love hosting.
UM So I'm not done, but I need to be
(29:44):
done for the moment. I need to just take take
a moment here that's super interesting, Like, do you feel
like it? In some ways it sounds like there was
a gift there in getting to spend time with your family,
more time than you would have my gosh, but do
you feel like it changed you as a person, Like
as a person or as a professional, like any of it.
(30:05):
There's no way you come out of this unscathed and unchanged.
There's no way you have to grow. Um, it's just impossible.
We've we I say we because Lauren has been with
me every step of the way. We've definitely changed and
grown together. UM. I said this in an earlier episode
where you're as you get older, your circle gets smaller,
(30:28):
anyway gets tighter. Um. T J. Holmes and Amy Roebeck
are about to go through this. People you think are
your friends, people you think are going to stand beside you, don't. UM.
Co workers, people you work with, people you work for.
You will be surprised, good and bad, um by how
people react. And so yeah, your your circle changes, your
(30:49):
perspective changes. Luckily, I always had a good head on
my shoulders. I have been blessed with an amazing family. UM.
And I know people get a little weary and wheezy
easy about this when I mentioned faith, But I'm strong
in my faith. And so those were the things I
knew were important. And I preached this to my kids,
and you got to live it if you're going to
preach it, and that is remember what's important, Remember who's important.
(31:13):
And I never defined myself by my career, and so
when that was taken away, when that was stripped away,
I was okay. I found solace and I found strength
and what I always found strength then. And I think
to your question, if I had lost what I found
strength and pride in my family, that would have been
(31:34):
what's gutting. But I always had that and so I
was always able to wake up every day and just
keep moving forward. I love that. So important and such
good advice. UM, So important and important to remember to
prioritize that stuff always. Um. Can I ask one more question?
You bet? One more Lisa? Okay, UM, So do you
(31:55):
feel like you have to be overly censored now after
what happened? Like, do you feel like you're going to
be canceled again, and like specifically, like it just feels
like such a fine line between making sure that everyone
in our society feels valued and included, which I do
think is really important. Um, but also with censorship, which
(32:16):
I mean I personally feel it's not a good thing. Um.
You know, people may disagree. Um, people do disagree, right, Um,
But I feel like it's such a balance between the
two because, particularly in the media, I just don't think
censorship is a good thing. I think we need to
know stuff and here stuff. So yeah, So just wondering like,
(32:36):
how do you how do you approach that now, or
how do you think through that or think about it?
That's such a good question. I was, as you were
asking your other question and about how Chris has changed,
I was going to challenge him a little bit and say,
but don't you think you've changed on that? Actually? I
mean I feel I've changed. I have definitely gotten more. Um,
(32:59):
I've shut down out a little bit as a person.
I'm actually trying to push myself back to the open, fun,
silly person and that side of myself that I used
to be. I find myself so cautious. I find myself
you know, I think the hardest part about all this
for us is probably that you start to question your gut.
(33:20):
Um we you know, everybody says trust your gut, but
when you are trying to be open and then you're
you find yourself in being told to be quiet and everything. Um,
it's hard. And I have to say that it's so
important to remember that so many marginalized communities have felt
this way for such a long time. And so I
(33:43):
I don't know, I mean, as a woman, we felt
that it's all it's all these things to remember that
people can feel hurt and in pain, and that we
have to remember to try to be as sensitive as
we can. Um. So I but I have found myself.
Yet you on the one hand, you want to be
careful and then on the their hand, you have to
remind yourself like be who you are and hopefully say
(34:06):
what you think without hurting anyone, and hopefully say what
you think without getting shut down it. But it's a
really hard to do. Well, it's a tough line to walk, right,
I mean, doing this podcast. This is episode three. I
was scared to death those first two episodes. I was
very careful and I've always been careful about how I speak.
(34:26):
I I try to always think. And that's why, honestly,
going back to that interview, why it was just such
a bizarre moment, even for me looking back, because I'm
usually so much more thoughtful and careful about how I
speak in people's feelings and how my words will be taken.
But now, even more than than ever, I care and
(34:50):
I also worry about it, you know, because and I
realized there's there's this is a double edged sword, and
two sides of this, and this might seem contradictory, but
it's not. I I'm careful. I want to be marked,
but at the same time, I want to be open
and honest with you, and I know that that's going
to ruffle feathers. I know that I can't please everybody,
and so you can't go through life walking on eggshells
(35:12):
hoping everybody's going to be happy with me. I'm gonna
please everybody. Luckily, I got over that a long time ago,
because you can't live this life. I've lived in the
public eye for so long and not take shots. You know,
people will come at you for for all kinds of things.
Luckily I have a thick skin. But it's different now.
And it's different for me now because of what I've
(35:33):
gone through. And can I be canceled again? Probably? I
don't know. I you know, I'm sure, I'm sure I
could go somewhere, you know, and and make that happen.
But you know, it's it's a delicate tightrope and it
always has been, but I think now more than ever.
And Lisa, thank you so much for the thoughtful questions.
(35:53):
These questions have been amazing today. Well, thanks so much
for your answers. And I'm so glad you're back, So
glad you're doing this podcast. I can't wait to keep
hearing it. Lisa, thank you so much. I love this.
I love taking these phone calls. I love hearing from you.
Um getting a chance to talk to you dramination. Hi Chris,
(36:23):
this is Sam. Hey Sam, how you doing. I'm good?
How are you excellent? Thank you? Beautiful day? Good. Yes, UM,
I have a first I have a few questions, but UM,
I first wanted to ask you, you know, after everything happened,
did you ever have like a big breakdown moment, like
you know, crying on your hands and knees, or like
(36:45):
crying in your bed. I imagine that must have been
very hard after everything happened. Yeah, yeah, Um. There were
all kinds of moments. Um. There was one in particular.
I remember Lauren sitting here. I had just gotten off
(37:11):
I had so many phone calls and and things would
just go on for all day, and by the end
of the day I was usually just like wrung out.
I was done, so was so was l z. Um.
But I remember something in particular happened, and I don't
even recall exactly what it was, not that I could
probably tell you, but um, and that doesn't matter. I
walked into the kitchen and and Lauren was there, and
(37:36):
I just looked at her and I was I was done.
And I don't necessarily know if I fell fell to
my knees or anything that dramatic, but I just I
just remember that specific moment where I think we both
cried a little bit because it meant so much to us.
But there were there were many moments like that, UM,
(37:59):
where he felt a little overwhelmed and and and again
to go back to t J. Holmes and Amy Roeback, Um,
in all seriousness with them at g m A and
what they're going through right now, I know that feeling
of the world feels like it's against you. When you're
(38:21):
facing such a big foe and it's coming from all
sides and you're trying to figure out what's best for everybody,
it's really difficult. And so that's why you know, my
heart goes out to them, um, no matter what the
facts are behind the scenes, UM, because I just got it.
(38:44):
That part was triggering, because yeah, I just even now,
I feel it in my gut. I know the moment
where I felt the worst about everything, which was sorry,
who's the caller? I'm so sorry? Sam? I am I
get I don't know. I feel like I feel like
Sam just took us into therapy and I'm gonna lay
(39:07):
down on the couch right now, Sam, Sam, that was
That's such a good question. I would have asked, and
I did have asked in a million interviews. What was
the moment you knew it was over? What was the
moment you knew you were done? When? When did you
break down? Um? By the way, there were many times
where I don't know how Chris didn't break down more.
I yelled at him a lot. I was very UM.
(39:29):
I tried. There were moments where I tried to be
strong and then there were moments where I would lose it. Um,
but I the moment that is maybe the most painful
for me actually to look back on, was the night
before you did the g M A interview. You were
(39:49):
sitting in bed, and I just remember feeling like, um, sorry,
It's funny how quickly I still cry. Um, Like you
weren't yourself. You were sitting there and like trying to,
you know, be so prepared for this because you wanted
(40:11):
to do right by everybody in that interview, and I
remember you're saying something like, you know, I don't know
how to follow my gut anymore here, and you were not.
You just weren't yourself to me, and I had a
bad feeling that I just felt like he's in such
(40:33):
a dark, confused place that he doesn't know how to
answer from. He doesn't know how to operate, you know,
as himself anymore. And gosh, it was it's very scary
when you get to that place. That was the toughest moment,
and I didn't know how to get you back. So Sam,
thanks for taking any gosh, I don't mean to depress you, Sam,
(40:58):
any other questions. No, thank you so much for sharing
that and actually Lauren, I'm glad you're there too, because, Um,
I actually had a question for you because I was wondering, like,
did anyone ever tell you that you should break up
with Chris during any of this? Like that must have
been a weird spot good question you put in. So
(41:20):
I was just wondering what happened, uh during that time too,
and if anyone ever said anything to you like that, Sam,
Yes they did. Um. Yes, I got d M s
from people telling me to break up with Chris. Um.
I got d M s from people telling me how
could I stay with Chris. Um. I had people in
(41:43):
the industry telling me that I should protect myself and
that from my career I should break up with Chris. Um.
So yes, And I guess to take it to I mean,
maybe to expand and say the reason I didn't do that,
um was because, like I said, Chris, I mean, I'm
(42:05):
divorced too, and to me, everybody is going to make mistakes.
I said this last week, It's all about how you
respond from those mistakes. UM. I did not break up
with Chris. That was never even on my mind because
right away Chris knew he had been imperfect, knew he
(42:28):
had made a mistake, knew that he'd hurt people, and
he was so sorry for hurting people. Um, and he
right away was thinking about how to make that better,
how to do right by everybody, how to fix everything. So,
oh my gosh, I had seen who Chris really was
in a million moments other than that interview, and I
(42:52):
saw the capability of his heart and who he could
be in a million moments after that interview and since
so breaking up with Chris was never an option for me, because,
thank goodness, I know who he is, and he saw
and he showed me who he was even more. Thanks Sam,
(43:13):
I'm so glad that you two are still together and
that you have come out on the other side of this.
So I'm glad to hear that me too. And Sam,
thank you for thank you for your thoughtful questions and
and just thank you for listening to the podcast. I
hope it is what you wanted to be, and I
hope it turns into more of what you want. I
truly appreciate it. I'm very grateful me too. Thank you
(43:35):
so much. I love the show and keep on doing
what you're doing. Thanks Sam, Thank you. Wow, what an
incredible day this has been. What an amazing episode. I
want to thank everybody who called in. I want to
thank everybody for their questions. This has been overwhelming for
Elz and I. This has been incredible and I just
(43:57):
I'm so grateful and truly appreciative and I of this.
I love it. This is this is what I want
to show, not just talking about like what's happened, but
this is what I want to show to be about
where we start getting into stuff, relationships and I. It's
something we all relate to, right. We all have relationships,
we all get in them, we all get out of them.
(44:18):
We all have a great breakup story, a great love story.
So this is what I want to dive into. And
I'm looking so forward to this. So thank you Dramination.
I look forward to so much more and if you
will indulge me, there is one more thing I want
to talk about today, and this is on a very
personal note. And no matter who you are, you can
(44:40):
say you are a self made man or woman. None
of us are self made. We all have teachers, mentors,
just people in our lives that have given us a
leg up, people that have been there, people that got
us from here to there, whatever that moment was, and
I have many people like that in my life, but
(45:01):
I just lost one last week. His name was Brian Harvey.
He was my college soccer coach. For those of you
some know me that I love the game of soccer
and it was my life for a big part of
my childhood and into adulthood. And I played four years
of soccer at Oklahoma City University. The reason I did
so was because of this man, Brian Harvey, who found
(45:23):
me my senior year of high school and recruited me
and took me to o s U where I played
for him. But he was so much more than than
just a coach, um as all mentors, leaders and great
coaches are. He affected my life permanently. He took a young, cocky,
arrogant eighteen year old soccer player that didn't have a
(45:46):
lot of direction and gave him focus, Um, gave him meaning.
He's He's partially the reason that I got into media
and got into sportscasting and and found this avenue in
my life. And he changed. Brian. For those obviously you
don't know, but Brian did more for soccer in Oklahoma
(46:08):
than any human being ever will. He coached for thirty
five years he was an absolute legend in soccer and
especially at OCU. He touched the lives of thousands of
young men and women, whether he coached them at his
club at Ocu, where he coached both the men and
the women, he did youth camps. He touched the lives
(46:32):
of so many of us, and we are all so grateful.
And to Judy and Nicole, his wife and daughter who
um shared him with us, we are so grateful and
sorry and on such a down note, but there are
(46:54):
people in our lives who are so important and never
get a shout out. And and for all the Brian
Harvey's out there, I just want to say thank you
and Harve. This one's dedicated to you. I'll miss you
and I love you, and I'll talk to you all
next week. Thank you for being here, because we have
(47:15):
a lot more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow
us on Instagram at the most dramatic pod ever and
make sure to write us a review and leave us
five stars. I'll talk to you next time.
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Zima
Chris Harrison
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