David Koechner

Today Brian sits down to talk with the hilarious David Koechner who played Michael’s inappropriate friend, the Pacman - Todd Packer. David explains how it was like to grow up in a little town in Missouri, how he manifested his SNL days at age 13, his iconic role as Champ Kind on Anchorman, and of course, how he brought The Office’s cringiest character to life.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Have you ever felt depressed about work only to have
your dad be like, why you're so down? So you
told him you hate your job and he said, well,
you better talk yourself out of it. And then you thought, hmm,
I love to talk. I could host a podcast. And
then you went to Speaker from my Heart and started
a podcast and got good at it, then monetized it,
then quit your boring job and told your dad thanks
for the advice. And he was like, well, that's not
what I meant and I don't understand what a podcast is,

(00:20):
but you seem happy, So that's great, kiddo. You ever
do that? Well, you could at speaker dot com. That's
spr E A K E R. Ask your dad you
actually don't. Hi. I'm Arden Marine from Insatiable and will
you accept this rose podcast? And I'm Julianne Robinson and
Emmy nominated director of Bridgeton and we are the hosts

(00:40):
of Lady of the Road, a funny and inspiring podcast
where we have conversations with influential women about their lives
and we get self health advice because we are always
looking to improve ourselves. Sure story, we talk about money, health, relationships,
you name it from inspiring women like Joan Jet, Nicole Buyer,
Lauren Laptez Retta and more. Listen and subscribe to Lady
the Road on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,

(01:02):
sole wherever you get your podcasts. Hi. I'm Hillary Clinton
and I'm so excited to be back with a third
season of You and Me Both. When I started this podcast,
we were going through some tough times, and let's face it,
we still are. And here's what I know. We cannot
get through this alone. So please join me for more

(01:24):
conversations with people who will make you think, make you laugh,
and help us find a path forward. This season, I'll
be talking about the state of our democracy with experts
and with people organizing on the ground. Will draw inspiration
from some amazing people like Olympic star Alison Felix and
Grammy Award winner Brandy Carlisle. And we'll get into the

(01:48):
hard stuff with writer Cheryl Strait and my dear friend
and colleague, Juma Aberdeen. So join us. Listen to You
and Me both on the I Heart Radio app, Apple
podcast or where where you get your podcast. Hi, gang,

(02:15):
my name is David Kecker. I'm Todd Packer from the
office The pac Man what's up, my nerds? He Hello again, everybody.
Welcome to another episode of the Office Deep Dive. Buckle up.

(02:36):
It's gonna be a bumpy ride today, that's all I'll
tell you. I am, as always your host, Brian baum Gartner,
and I've got some exciting news. As you know, I
am soon going to be transitioning into my new podcast,
Off the Beat, which is going to take what we
do here at the Office Deep Dive and expand it

(02:57):
to more of your favorite guests and shows. So we
will still be talking to folks associated with the Office,
but so much more. And so today you're gonna get
a little sneak peek of what you can expect in
Off the Beat as we bring in a very special guest,
one of my good friends and one of the funniest

(03:19):
guys that I know, David Keckner. Now you may know
him as Todd Packer from the Office, the pac Man himself.
But today we're gonna go deep, that's what she said.
We're gonna go into his full career, starting with his
early days at Second City and Improv Olympic to s
n L where he got his start alongside Will Ferrell,

(03:43):
his move out to l A, which led to his
big break as champ Kind on Anchorman, and well the
longstanding friendship he's had with both Steve Carrell and Nancy
Walls Correll, which is how he landed his guest starring
role on the Office as the man we all understandably

(04:04):
love to hate. So let's dive in right now. The
man who brought everyone in the world of the Office
down is here today to lift us up. David Keckner. Everybody,
Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and squeak on

(04:27):
Bubble and Squeaker cooking at every month, left over from
the nubb before. Hey, well what do I see but

(04:48):
double b he's looking at me? How are you, buddy?
Always I'm great. Always with the hat I need I
need lessons from you in hat wear. Well, you know,
it's just it's the sun for me unfair. So I
for me, it's it's more like, um, it's not necessarily fashioned.
It's a necessity of like I gotta keep the sun off. No,

(05:12):
but I do that. But I just wear baseball hats,
and I go into hat stores to try to find
something just a little bit more fashionable. I can't. I
don't know it's my head shape or something. See how
I have a small head too. So um, but it's
really Brian, I gotta say, I've always thought this. It's

(05:32):
all a decision about I can wear that. Really, I
just need to have confidence. That's that's what I think.
You just go yep, I can wear that, and then
you do because I can work for For us, it's
the larger forehead, the superior forehead that we have. But
it's for me it's the ears I gotta watch out for,

(05:54):
you know, because the ball cap doesn't do those. So, Babe,
do you sunscreen? I do, sure, Okay, yeah, I don't
religiously sunscreen, So I got it. That's this is the
lazy sunscreen for me. Lazy sunscreen, but fashionable, way more
fashionable as well. Well, thank you for saying so. And
you're right, Yeah, I am right. I'm right, Dave. You

(06:18):
are one of the funniest people I've ever met. Um
that that almost goes with without let's stop there. That
was the episode, and I am now fully stated I
want to go back with you because there's a lot
about your life that I don't know. I know obviously. Well,

(06:40):
we'll talk about the chiefs later. On in Kansas City.
But you were born in Tipton, Missouri, and I assume
your family was in in farming, right, your dad manufactured
chicken turkey coops, turkey coops. I always start with saying
he manufactured livestock trailers, so then people get at least
a vision of it's on a trailer. Then I add

(07:00):
coops to it so they know it's on a trailer.
Because every time I say it, people go oh fors,
like something in your backyard, Like, well, um, that's condescending,
And you're also ignorant and not interested because it seems
to me like when they go, oh for your backyard,
I've never seen a turkey coop in someone's backyard. I've
seen chicken coops. But to me, like, oh like your backyard, Like, oh,

(07:22):
so you don't want to hear the rest of the story.
That's what I take away from it. Um, so, no,
they were. There were forty foot trailers and uh large
racks that are built for transferring turkeys from the farm
to the processing plant, so from their home to uh
their death, yes, their uh to our mouths. So my

(07:47):
dad was a manufacturer. He built a lot of different
other farm inpluments like hey, bail forks uh pharaohing crates,
which is another thing that's too long to get into,
gas barrel stands, picnic table frames. But the biggest part
of the business was turkey coops. And yeah, so from
Tipton it's right dead center of Missouri and from north
southeast west it's like right in the middle on Highway

(08:07):
fifty between Jefferson City, the state capital, and Saidelia, which
is where the Missouri State Fair was held every year.
That is a very special place in my heart. And
so yeah, that's where I grew up. Town to two
thousand people. Wow, And now, when did you start thinking
about being a performer? And I'm gonna get I'm gonna
use the word performer generally now because I want to

(08:29):
talk about that a little bit later, about what you
consider yourself. But when did you start thinking, oh, this
may be something that I want to do. Well. I've
said this before. I'm one of six kids, and so
when I was ten, I have a distinct memory of
walking around the west side of my house by myself,
being very contemplative and thinking, I gotta get out of here.

(08:50):
I have to I have to live in a city
I I don't know where I'm gonna go. I'm gonna
miss my family and friends, but I know I've got
to go. And then when I was thirteen was the
year for Saturday at Live, and I knew my parents
wouldn't let me watch it because they wouldn't let me
watch like laugh In or a lot of shows, you know,
like A Room twenty two or stuff like that was

(09:10):
too racy. But they leased to go out dancing every
weekend to the local Farmers and Sportsmen's Club, and I
had a babysit my three younger siblings, and I knew
they weren't to be there, so I didn't say anything.
I didn't ask permission because I knew they would have
said no, So I didn't say anything, so I didn't
have to lie. I just wouldn't mention because I don't

(09:30):
know if you remember, you're a little bit younger than me,
but they would do. They were doing some live commercials
promoting Saturday Live. I was like, this is brand news,
this is a live show, and it's comedy. It looks
like something that I've never seen before. And so my
parents were gone and so SNL, let's see it aired
at ten thirty in the Midwest, and I remember watching

(09:51):
it and through that first year I was like, I
want to do that. I want to be on that show. Now.
Then you don't don't tell people because you're in a
small town. Small small towns don't really embrace dreams. And again,
this is before the internet. So I had no that's
the title of your new book. Yeah, I like you

(10:16):
said new book, as if I've written many, um. But
so that was in my head and I didn't tell people.
I didn't tell anyone. And again, there's no performance opportunity
or stage opportunity in Tipton. None except once a year
there was the high school play, and you couldn't do
that into your junior so there was no opportunity. This

(10:39):
is pre internet. There's not a ton of books. I'd
never met an actor. I didn't know how it worked.
So that's that's that's when I knew, though. You just
you've watched SNL and you were like, I want to
do that. That's what I want to do. Yeo. So
what was your process then, of of leaving Tipton. I
know you went to Chicago. How did you decide that

(11:00):
was the place or go about getting there? Well, I
went to college first and I was a political science major. Again,
that's surprising to me. That's the most surprising thing you've
said so far. Really, that's funny. The thing was, the
thing is because I'm very political. Uh, I didn't even
have a thought that I should be a theater major.

(11:24):
That didn't come up. I thought, you go to college
for something that is dedicated to a pursuit, a career,
a profession. So I thought, well, I'm going to be
in politics. And I really, looking back on it, I
think that was my desire to seek a stage. But
I also had this altruistic streak where I thought a
politician their job was to help people. So I did

(11:47):
that for three years, and then I started realizing that
this isn't no one's talking about the you know, how
you use power or or the process or politics to
really help people. It was us about this machinations of
things going on. The third year was kind of getting
to the more dry aspects of politics and the administrative

(12:07):
end of it. And I remember thinking, well, shoot, I've
met so many bright people in this pursuit. And I thought, well,
the people in politics are either from a political family
or they are very wealthy, or they're the smartest person
in any room they walk into, and I was none
of those things. So I just quit going to my
classes because I remember thinking, I don't want to be

(12:28):
a lawyer. I don't want to just work for a senator,
and that doesn't seem like these people are really committed
to just helping people. So I quit going to all
my classes. So as you know, if that happens, you're
what they call academically ineligible, which is my way of punting.
It really was. And my dad said, well, Dave, I

(12:49):
don't know what you want to do, but I don't
think you want to go to school. And for me
that was a relief. I didn't there was no punishment,
but for him as a relief because it's like, Okay,
this kid's off my doll I don't. So he sold
me the car I was driving. It was a god,
what year was that thing? It was a nineteen probably
a nineteen seventy seven Plymouth Grand Fury. Uh. He sold

(13:14):
me that car for four hundred dollars. And then I
was there in Clymie, Missouri. I was working three different
jobs just to make it, you know, paying for your
rent and all that stuff, and then a buddy of
mine and I. By this point, Brian, I had read
a bunch of books about Saturday Live, like there's a
smaller book called Backstage at Saturday Night Live. Then I
was starting to read books about Second City, and I'd

(13:34):
read the book about John Belushi Wired, and everything that
kept coming up was like, Oh, they're all from Second City.
So a buddy of mine and I we drove up
to Chicago and we saw a show at Second City
and I was like, oh my god, Oh my god.
You know, sitting there in the whole time, was like, God,
this is what I want, This is what I want.
And then on the way out, so actually on the

(13:56):
second level, they're the big, big room and Second City.
Go downstairs and there's a big poster and it was
advertising classes. I was like, oh my god, that's oh
that's how that's how they do it. And I had
a matchbook and a golf pencil, because back then you
would fill out a piece of paper for your mainly address.
They wanted people's just like now they want your information.

(14:17):
And so I surreptitiously wrote down the number for classes
on that matchbook. Because I'm from Tipton, I expected someone
to tap on my shoulder and say, what are you
writing that down for? You can't do that. That's the
kind of narrative you come from a small town, like
you don't, don't you have? You can't do that. And
so then I went back to Columbia, Missouri, and I

(14:38):
called and I found out that they taught very different
levels of classes. And then I saved my money so
that summer I came up and took a two week
concentrated course for what was called Player's Workshop. And then
I went home and like, that's it, I'm doing this.
Went home. It took another year to save money and
come back. And then I moved to Chicago when I
was twenty four. Wow, and and you, because I know

(15:01):
you worked at Improv Olympic as well. Were you doing
both of those things simultaneously or once I got to town,
I made the mistake of thinking I had to be
in restaurant management to uh to afford living in Chicago,
which I didn't realize. I made less money there than
I would have if I was waiting tables. It took
six months there. So I just kept all these things

(15:22):
that happened happened for a reason, like I didn't move
to Chicago to La twenty four, and I didn't start
right away. And then when I was ready to start,
and I quit working as a restaurant manager, I got
a job waiting tables and I opened up the Chicago
Tribune in the Sunday section had an article about Dell
Close and Sharna helping from the Improv Olympic and about

(15:43):
what they were doing, and they were going to have
their own television show, and I like, this is the
place to go. So I started first at the Improv Olympic,
which was a blessing, Like all these things lined up
and sent me to the right direction every time. And
it was a delay in a sense, but it is
the right time because at that point, all these other
people were moving to town and starting classes, and they

(16:03):
had all been fans of sun Life the same relative
age that I had been, and we're all happened to
be there. But everybody wanted to be good. It wasn't
about being famous or successful. Is about you wanted to
go there and do this thing and create that then
find a way to do that magic you had been
witnessing and be part of that type of thing. And
it just so happens. So I started the probalymic first,

(16:25):
and then I started taking classes at Second City simultaneously,
so I was taken both classes. So about that time
I was probably doing at least four nights of classes
a week, and then within a year then I would
be doing four nights of classes and or performance every
week for my entire time in Chicago. And then years

(16:45):
later you read the book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell and
they talked about the ten thousand hours theory and I
looked back like, oh wow, I did it. I put
that time in and that's the thing. So that's how
that's how it happened. And for people who don't know
Dell Close, this is a legendary comedy teacher in Chicago
who was there at the same time with you. Well,

(17:08):
when I was there, Chris Farley and I started. Actually
Chris Farley started I think six months later than me,
but Chris Farley, Pat Finn, Pete Halley, Neil Flynn, Mike Coleman. Then,
uh so this is at Second City that it's Dave Rasowski,
Dave Pasquasy. A lot of these people are legends that

(17:29):
you might not be household names, but trust me. These
are legendary and prop performers. Tim Madows was there, Joel
Murray was there, and then over the Second City side
at the same time was Stephen Colbert, Steve Carrell, Richard
Kind had Jeff left town. But the list of the
people that I ended up working with in Chicago is

(17:49):
a who's who of people who eventually became amazing. So
then just behind me was Matt Besser, Amy Poehler, Ian Roberts,
Matt Walsh, tina A, Rachel Dratch, Ratio Sayings, Adam McKay
and other other names. Now these are writers John Glazer,
Brian McCann, Brian Stack, Kevin Dorff. The list goes on

(18:12):
and on, and Tommy, Andy Richter. It just goes on,
and you realize that this was just happened to be
an amazing time. And before I left town, I got
Saturday Live after a couple of years, after many years
working there. But um I met with a guy named
Bernie Sillons is one of the persons that started Second City,

(18:32):
and he and I had lunch and he said he
had never seen such a confluence of talent as had
been there in this past ten years. And I look
at it now and like that has never happened again.
Like this group of people that all came through at
this particular time in history, and all of them made
a big impact in show business or in media. I guess,

(18:56):
well you were there. I know Nancy Walls was also
the this Nancy. Sorry I forgot to mention. Nancy and
I were on Saturday and Live together. Nancy Correll had
been dating, Yes, she'd been dating Steve Carrell. So Nancy
and I actually were in the same company at Second City,
and then we both got hired on Saturday Live at
the same time, and then we both got let go
from Saturday Night Live at the same time. Nancy and

(19:19):
Steve got married this summer she and I got hired,
and uh, I was at their wedding and we were
out there, you know, and Steve audition for SNL. I
mean that can be to be believed, like they didn't
recognize like Steve Carrell's specialness. Um, I guess I guess
I had to say thank God because then I probably
wouldn't have gotten hired. But so, yeah, they got married
right before we started doing SNL that first season. Nancy

(19:41):
and I and then I think Steve was doing a play.
He had been at Second City for a long time,
and I was a huge fan of his back then.
And he then went and did a play at the
Goodman called Picasso at the Lapino Gil which was a
stim Martin play, and then he ended up, I think,
doing it at a Broadway theater in New York, so
they were there at the same time. Too interesting. I

(20:03):
didn't know did he play Einstein? Remember, I don't never
saw the play. Yeah, how arrogant is that that? I
didn't think, oh shit, you know, it's one of those things.
Back then, I probably would have said he's done something stupid,
like I'd like to see her play in such a
way that meant like, fuck you, you know what I
mean that I would have thought, you want to see

(20:24):
my play? Oh, how good of you to come down
to see my play. But you know, you're busy thinking
about yourself and doing a million other things. But I
never did get it. I didn't have a chance to
see it in Chicago and then in New York. I
forget when the run was, but I didn't. I didn't
get a chance to see it. It's a hard time

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Treatment on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or
wherever you get your podcasts. Were you still at Second
City when you auditioned for S and L. Yeah? Yeah,

(24:40):
so that was why you left Second Yeah? That. I
always thought to myself, I'm not going to go to
New York or Los Angeles without a job, like I
would see people leave Chicago and go to l A.
But I always thought to myself, go when a job
takes you there. And I was fortunate enough that a
job took me away. Tell me about that audition experience.

(25:02):
I've heard so many amazing stories. Did you audition for Lauren? Yeah?
I tell you I had. It's weird and it sounds arrogant,
but I knew I was going to get it because
when I was thirteen as I told you, I decided
I'm going to be on that show. And it wasn't
a feeling of hubrists or ego. It was just kind

(25:25):
of this knowing, well, I'm going to be on that show.
And so when I got asked to audition, I kind
of heard other people had talked and some of the
scouts had come through, and I knew they really liked me,
and I heard from other people that Lauren really thought
highly of me. So this is before I went out
to audition, So I really I felt at ease. And

(25:46):
so my first audition, you had to come in with
a an original character, and then you had to do
a political impression, and then you had to do a
celebrity impression. So I did at Buchanan because he has
got a grave, gravelly voice like I do. Pat Buchanan
is this right wing commentator on on back then it

(26:07):
was CNN because there wasn't Fox News yet, but he
was a right wing guy who was one of the
first guys talking about building a wall. And then I
did Jack Lemon and Jim Carey doing a buddy movie
and they were arguing about whose trailer was bigger, and
Brian I improvised the entire thing, just off the top
of your head. YEP. I had some thoughts, you know, how,

(26:29):
you think because I was I was at the I OH.
There's such a purity to improvisation, Like you don't decide
what you're doing ahead of time. Now that is a
blessing and a curse. And you never repeat yourself at
the I OH, Like if you did the same character
week after week, people look like, what what are you doing?
That's kind of like cheating. So after the first audition,

(26:52):
which I just improvised, I wrote the second audition. The
second audition, can't remember exactly. It may have been just
go do your aracters, or it may have been do
the political impression and whatever characters you want to do.
I remember I didn't have to do celebrities anymore, so
I think I may have done Pat Buchanan again. And
then I'd written this little piece which is almost a

(27:13):
one man show of just characters, because I love to
do characters back in Chicago too, and so I had
all these little things I was going to do. It's
almost like they blended together, and it's studio eight h.
There's no audience and no one's laughing, and there's no warmth,
and it's a bit cold, and there's cameras. Now I
didn't know, and thankfully I didn't know. The cameras are

(27:35):
a live feed. There's people all over NBC, all over
the building, watching all over the building and on the
West coast. You don't know that you have a very
large audience of people. You don't know that until later,
And thankfully you don't know, because that would have probably
been more anxiety inducing than anything else. But again, that

(27:57):
doesn't exist unless you let it come into your head.
And I had this sense of calm and peace that
I knew, I knew what I was doing, and I
in myself, I knew that what I was gonna do
was gonna be satisfactory to me and that this is
what I have, and there was no worry to it.
And I did it and I felt very good about it.

(28:18):
I don't remember if there was a laugh at all,
because no one gives it up. And then you wait
another week or two, and then you get called back again.
And you're getting called back and they don't tell you
to prep or anything like that. You're just getting called
back for a meeting and you don't know what it is,
so you go to a meeting and it's Lauren Michaels
is in there, and Steve Higgins was the head writer.

(28:40):
And then Lauren talks to you, and it's really weird
because he talks about this or that. He talks about baseball,
and I'm like, funk, I don't know a thing about baseball.
And then in Chicago that summer, five people had died
from the heat, and for whatever reason, that was on
my mind because it's just been a headline that's talking
about that, and I remember Lauren Lauren saying we're done
talking about that now to kind of prompt me that okay,

(29:03):
either he doesn't want to hear about this story or whatever.
And so then it goes on I don't know, five
ten minutes, and then at some point Steve leans Ummer
goes congratulations, you're hired. They're like, oh, okay, because you're like, what.
It doesn't seem to be structured to this meeting, but
I do. I think the final meeting is just to
check out if you're if you've got a screw loose,

(29:24):
or you're a nut job or something, or you're just
not ready, if you're too green or something. It would
be pretty evident at that point, there was one guy,
and I don't know where he was from, and I
don't know what his name was, but I do know
that in the previous two auditions everyone thought he was
British because all he did was speaking of British accent,
and we're all from America. We don't know if it's
a real one or not. It seemed fine, It did

(29:46):
seem I didn't get to know him. It seemed a
bit presentational to me. But then apparently at his meeting
it came out like, oh, I'm not really British, but
he'd always been doing everything. It's like, okay, fella, there
seems to be a p sential problem with you. And
then he didn't make use. Everyone's like, probably that guy's
gonna make it, but he was gone. So I think
that's what that final meeting is, to find out, Hey,

(30:09):
what do we got here? Now we're just one on one,
there's no performance. Who are you? So? Yes, Will Farrell
and I were hired the same day, and then Will
and I went to a baseball game that night and
a limo pulls up and myself and Will and Steve
Higgins sat in the fourth row behind home plate. Their
Laurence seats Born didn't sit with us. He sat with
Jim Silly, who did all the films, the short films

(30:30):
about eighteen rows back. And we're like, so we're at
the game with Lauren. This is how a game with
Lauren works. And before that, Lauren had mentioned to me, Um,
Dave at the meeting, that's right, Dave. You know, this
is your first time that people see you on television,
so it's up to you. Do you want to have
hair or not? I was like what? And he told

(30:51):
me all the people that had wigs and all the
people that had plugs, and I'm not gonna tell you,
but it was a list. You're thinking like, oh, yeah,
I can see that. I can see. I think to
myself like, is he telling me I have to get
it too pay? Is he telling me I have to
get hair plugs? I was like, oh fun, because I
was thinking there's no way I could ever live it

(31:12):
down with my buddies from Chicago if I show up
on TV with hair, because they'd be like, the fuck
are you? Or my family would just probably go, oh,
this is sad. And then I remember later, Lauren, you know,
because I could, I assume he could clearly see. I
was struggling with it. And I remember after the game

(31:33):
he said, Dave about the hair, Fuck, it doesn't matter
to you. You be you like, Oh, thank god. So
that was that. I may have been like the first
bald guy on the show. Maybe not that it matters, right,
That is so interesting, So you know that's how it happened. Yeah,
And there's a bunch of new people with me as

(31:54):
Me and Will Ferrell and CHERRYO Terry and Jim Brewer
and Darryl Hamm and and Nancy Walls and Molly Shannon's
second year, McDonald's third year, Spades fifth year, uh, Tim
Meadows fifth year. Then Chris Cantan came on halfway through
the season. God, they're there's a whole picture over there. Oh,

(32:17):
Mark McKinney's second year. I think that's all of this. Wow,
that's amazing. I love that and I love that you, you
you know, sitting at home and Tipton said that's what
I'm gonna do, and then you did, and then that
brought you calm later on. Yeah, I tell you, Brian.

(32:37):
And when I got the show, I already decided my mind,
I'm not staying. You get a six year contract, and
I already decided I'm not staying six years because I
was felt there's some people that stayed too long here
and I'm not going to be one of them. And
I thought, I'm gonna be here three years, and whether
you believe in manifesting things or not, after the first year,
I wasn't invited back, and I was shocked because I

(32:59):
had a great first year, but apparently some people on
the West Coast didn't dig what I was doing. And
I like that. I'm Irish Catholic, and as a person
from Second City and a teacher there had once told
me because he was Irish too, he was you know,
we Irish, we don't suffer fools gladly, and I certainly didn't.
And I had very strong opinions about what should and

(33:22):
shouldn't be on the show, and I think I was
pretty loud in my opinions, and no one gave me
fuck because you know, you're you're not running the show, boy,
You're on the show. Do anything to get on the show.
And it's been suggested to me that I do this
one character as a talk show, and I thought that
was the dumbest idea I've heard, and I told them
that that I realized after I wasn't asked. BacT, they
weren't asking me. They were telling me do this. But

(33:45):
they were nice to know how about this as a
talk show, And I would say, that's what's wrong with
this show. We have too many talk shows. We need
more scenes. No one cares what you think. But you know,
it was a blessing, I guess, because you know, I
moved out to l as a fortunate to start working
right away. I had a development deal within three months
that I moved out here. So I've been very fortunate.

(34:06):
That's awesome. I want to mention really quickly. I know
you did stuff with Conan O'Brien before you left New
York right a little bit, Lauren Lauren felt bad. Lauren
did not want to fire me. Lauren wanted to keep me.
But this the year that I was on SNL is
the first year that mad TV came on the air,
and then Howard Stern had a late night show, so

(34:27):
that they had competition in that hour for the first time,
and so West Coast had a little bit more leverage
on Lauren. Of course, there's a different politics that's going
on there, and so they said we want changes, but
Lauren wanted to keep me, and an effort to keep me,
he said, maybe you can become a regular player on
Conan show, which they didn't have that position. So I

(34:50):
remember going to someone's birthday party and Conan was there,
and I think Lauren had mentioned to Conan, you know,
why don't you make Kettner a regular player on your show?
And Conor was was kind of like He's like, I
love you, but to be honest, that doesn't exist here.
And we don't have the money. This is pretty early
in their show, like they didn't have a budget for

(35:10):
because every dollars accounted for, so if if you had
more money for talent, it would be you'd get another writer.
And so they weren't hiring me as a writer. Uh,
it would have been a great education for me to
be a writer, because I'm sure it would have had
plenty of ideas. I sure I probably could have made
it work. But the the idea of hiring an actor
is to come on and be on the show. And
he kind of let me down jannily like that doesn't

(35:32):
exist year and I thought I didn't really want to
do that either, because I didn't want to stay in
the same building. Was like, Hey, you're back in the
minor leagues, in the same building, on the same station
at the same time, but not on the time you
want to be there. So it was like, yeah, I
wasn't fighting for us that. Yeah, it hurt like hell, man,
it hurt like hell, But yeah, I moved to l A.
Then that next year, that September, when you know they're

(35:53):
going back to work, I packed up all my stuff
in a U haul and drove out to l A.
Did you meet Gruber? Oh? Gruber. The first time I
met him, he guest wrote on the show for two
weeks in January of nineties six, and I had put Gerald.
I got a sketch of Gerald Tibbins on the air,

(36:14):
and he always liked that character. And Dave. Dave's from
uh he had spent a lot of time in Iowa.
So he's from Midwest, and so am I. Dave Gruber
Allen is a legendary comedy figure, and he and I
eventually did this show called The Naked Trucker and t Bones,
and so he and I both got cast in this
movie called dil Scallion, directed by Jordan Brady, who has
now become a huge commercial director, and so I got

(36:36):
cast in that and groupers in the show too, and
he was doing a late night show at Largo. The
old Largo is a smaller club now it's his big
theater in in l A or mid mid size theater
in l A where they do a lot of comedy.
And he said, hey, I'm doing the show called The
Naked Truckers shows you come by and do a guest
spot as your t bones character. So after we've wrapped
the film, I came by and I did I think

(36:58):
ten minutes of his show, and he did like forty minutes,
and then he invited me back the next week, and
I think I did fifteen minutes, and then the same
thing the next week, and then I said, hey, why
don't I just stay up for the whole show because
it was working and he and I were just improvising this.
It was a really weird thing. So the Naked Trucker
sings songs about being on the road and they're just
really absurd comedy songs, and he would tell stories and

(37:21):
then here I come with this character that's a ne'er
do weel carny slash hobo who can quote Chaucer and
Noam Chomsky, so he's kind of like an intellectual Carny,
and so the chemistry was just perfect, and the partnership
was just incredible, and so he and I together was

(37:43):
just magic. And we did that show for seven years
in l A. And I'd say to this day it's
probably one of my my fondest memories of performing ever,
because man, it was just fantastic and the greatest compliment
I'd ever heard in doing that shows alive. Then we
became a headliner there twice a month. But the greatest

(38:03):
complin I ever got was from some writers, because a
lot of Hollywood writers would come to the show, like
every Hollywood person came to the show, and some Hollywood
writers had said, um, we come to this show for
inspiration to realize that great comedy can still be done
in this town. I was like, Wow, I didn't you know.
I've never been a guy that's big on seeking advantage

(38:25):
or trying to not really understanding how to leverage what
I have into something bigger. I just always assumed something
bigger and the right thing is going to come along.
It doesn't work that way. You've really got to be
very specific and determined about exactly what you want to
turn this thing into. And um, it turned into a
very compromised show on Comedy Central in one season, and

(38:50):
it's there and I haven't looked at it in years.
There's a lot of great stuff we had. But it's
really confusing because the success Comedy Central had in comedy
shows was Chappelle and men Siah and that the format
for that was the comic comes out and talks and
then throws to a sketch. We weren't a sketch duo,
and so the format they forced us into was counterintuitive

(39:12):
to what we should have been doing. But I didn't
have the right people around me to be able to
force Comedy Central's hand and say no, no, we're gonna
do the show that we want to do, and so
I just went along with it. And you know, it
was great. We had our own show. I've got to
dig through all the tapes and start putting that stuff
online and see what it was. Maybe it was one
of those things like probably a little bit ahead of
his time, and I don't say that ego wise. It

(39:33):
was just kind of confusing for people. And they promoted it.
I said, don't you ever promote this is blue collar
comedy because it's not that's not the crowd for this.
I said, we're more of a daily show crowd. Um.
And so they came up and started calling it roadhouse comedy,
like we we didn't call it. We call our comedy.
But you know, what the fuck is roadhouse comedy? Like

(39:57):
it's you know, they would say it's smart, Like, don't
fucking ever say dumb when you're referring to my comedy,
because it tells me that you don't get it at all. Anyway.
Is that network? You're still in there? And I mean
that in all seriousness, good, good, whatever. I think that's
shitty because that's ego based. But they made a lot
of mistakes, and my mistake was letting them do it right.

(40:19):
What what would you consider yourself? Are you? And I
brought this up earlier. Are you a stand up? Are you?
Are you an improviser? Are you an actor? I know
you're all you do all of those things. How do
you view yourself? And it doesn't really matter, it's just curious,
but from between you and me, like we we do

(40:39):
delineate between those types of things. But you said a performer,
and I think that's probably the closest thing. That's a
catch all for what I am. I love performing, whether
it's with just two people or a thousand, so there's
a performance. So I guess the other part would be
I'm an entertainer. So I didn't do stand up until
I had my fifth child, because at that point it's

(41:00):
like I can never have a down month, like I
can't rely on anybody else to bring income. And if
you're a stand up you do have some independence, like
you can just go out and get it. That's the
best part. And the other thing is that at this
point in my career, I could start as a headliner,
which is a bit of a cheap because you know,
in the stand up world you pay your dues, but
I had paid my dues on other stages, and I've

(41:23):
never stopped performing live, so I've always performed live in Chicago,
always performed in l A all the time. So I
would do the take a Trucker show or else I
would do sketch character pieces on stand up shows because
there's a variety of entertainment being done, all kinds of
alternative rooms, so it's always a place to go perform live.
So when I started doing stand up was kind of

(41:44):
like me doing a one man show, because I would
do character pieces. In fact, my first hour I had
like I had Brian, I had changes on stage in
comedy clubs, and I think people were wanting, like, what
the fuck is going on here? Um, because it's not
it's not the natural rhythm that they're used to, like
bought it up, bout it up, Bob, and there's this guy.

(42:05):
Let this added to the entire show by anyway, So
that was very interesting. But at the same time, to me,
I'm like, I'm doing an hour of entertainment. You call
it stand up, call it whatever you want. The stand
up aspect is one person in front of a microphone
standing up there. That's it. So you can't tell me, oh,
I'm not doing it the way you do it. Like
I'm gonna do it the way I do it, and

(42:25):
I'm getting the same result that audience full of people
is laughing. So I think I think what you said
performers correct, because there's performance when you're acting, and there's
performance who are doing stand up or your sketch or whatever.
So yeah, hello, hello, Hi, Oh my god, I want

(42:47):
to come through the screen and hug you. Hey, everybody
Jessica's or here also known as Vanessa Abrams on Gossip Girl.
I am so excited to share my new podcast with
you guys. It's called XO XO and it's a walkdown
memory lane all about Gossip Girl. I'll chat with some
of the cast crew fans of the show, and I'm

(43:08):
just so pumped for you guys to go on this
journey with me. All Right, I made Westwick. I played
Chuck Bass. I just can't believe that I did that
with my life, Jay, we had like the most amazing time.
Listen to XO XO on the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jake Halbern,

(43:31):
host of deep Cover. Our new season is about a
lawyer who helped the mob run Chicago. We controlled the courts,
we controlled absolutely everything. He bribed judges and even helped
a hit man walk free, until one day when he
started talking with the FBI and promised that he could
take the mob down. I've spent the past year trying

(43:52):
to figure out why he flipped and what he was
really after. From my perspective, Bob was too good to
be true. There's gotta be something wrong with this. I
wouldn't trust that guy. He looks like a little scum,
big liar stool Bidgeon. He looked like what he was
or at. I can say with all certainty I think
he's a hero because he didn't have to do what
he did, and he did it anyway. The moment I

(44:13):
put the wire around the first time, my life was over.
If it ever got out, they would kill me. In
the heartbeat, listen to deep Cover on the I Heart
Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Give us the over attention. We need everything you've got fast.
Waiting on Reparations would beat the podcast. Tune in every

(44:34):
Thursday politics and wordplay. We fight for the people because
they got us in the worst way, from the Hill Cooper,
the Bomb Bay, to Cant from the left on Clay
to what the neo kan say every Thursday, the heavy
conversation and to break us off with some break because
we're waiting repas. Listen to Waiting on Reparations on the
I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get

(44:55):
your podcasts. When did you meet Greg Daniels? I met
Greg Daniels the first time when I was writing a
pilot with a writer from King of the Hill, John Callier,

(45:21):
Jesus Christ Kicker, John Callier, amazing man, amazing writer. So
we wrote a pilot for the for the Gerald character.
This is before the Naked Trucker, and it was really good,
but they didn't understand it at all. They liked it,
but it never went to pilots. So we wrote the
script and so Greg would come around. Then say, I
was a friend of Norm his cock from Saturday Live.

(45:43):
He was a writer on Saturday Live, Canadian wright who's
head writing for Kids in the Hall, and so I
wanted Normal to do it. Norm was too busy because
he was writing on the King of the Hill and
doing something else. And then John and I wrote the pilot.
He was He was fantastic. But anyway, that's when I
met Greg for the first time, and Norm and I
were friends, and then Norm and I wrote bunch of
stuff together. We wrote several scripts for two movie scripts

(46:04):
for Gerald. They got close and then didn't get made.
And then Norm was one of the head writers for
the Naked Trigger and TBone show on Comedy Central. So
but that's how I met Greg. Yeah. Yeah, So the
story goes, you're shooting snakes on a plane in Canada.
In Canada, and you you get a call about coming

(46:26):
on and appearing on this television show The Office. Now
I had I had auditioned. You had auditioned for Michael Scott.
But I was a huge fan of The British Office,
and as you remember, the pilot episode for the American
Office borrowed heavily from the pilot episode of the British Office.
And I couldn't get Ricky gervais rhythms out of my head.

(46:47):
I couldn't audition because I was like, well, here's how
he says it. How else would anyone say it? Because
the way he does it's perfect. So I couldn't. I auditioned,
but it was neither here nor there because I didn't
have a take other than what he did. That's so
interesting because you know, Steve didn't know Ricky Gervais's version
of the Office, so when he went in he didn't

(47:07):
have that reference. That's fascinating. So you had met Greg
then auditioning for Michael, and then they called you about Packer.
Is that what happened? Yes, As like you said, as
the story goes, you'd had a wonderful actor who was
quite capable, but I think he was struggling with it
for whatever reason and it just wasn't working. And I

(47:28):
think they all agreed like, oh, this doesn't this isn't
quite there. So the new guys went on to shoot
the next episode. I think it might have been episode four,
and I think this was episode three when Packer comes
and so Steve. They were, I guess, still auditioning, and
Steve apparently had said to Greg Daniels, how about Keckner
for Packer? And I'm sure Gregg was thinking, yeah, he's

(47:49):
awful um as a human being, let's bring him as
But no. So with that, you know, I had had
a pretty good career going. We'd already done Anchorman, so
you know, you've got the comp pence and you know yourself.
You know, Packer. To me, it was like, oh my lord,
you come in and say these awful things to people
and get away with it. Fun. Plus it's my buddy Steve,

(48:12):
all right, you know, there's no pressure. Really, I'm just
gonna come in and do it. Okay. Now, had I
had to audition for it, it would have been different
because then you're trying rather than like like I said before,
on s and L. I just went and did what
I do and it worked, and you get the job.
You just go do what you do. When you're audition
for it, you're doing what in your there's part of

(48:33):
your mind that goes, I'm I'm doing what I hope
they want. Doesn't help it. It is so smart. That
is just so smart, because you're right, of course, no
matter what you're auditioning for, and you know what, what
did they tell you all the time? Right, make it
your own, just do your version of it. But no,
there's always still a place in the back of your

(48:53):
mind that's going like, oh, well, they must want this
version of me or that at her that it's that
is so free, that's so true. I've never told this before,
but I I borrowed from you and Robin Williams, actually
the two of you who I started working with. I

(49:15):
did a few projects with him right around the same time,
maybe a little bit after. And I'll tell you you.
I mean to say like Dave was packer all the
time on set, That's an inaccurate statement. But what I
mean is is that you were so free and fun

(49:37):
and brought just an amazing energy to the set every
single time. You were there and now, whether it was
because of your confidence or your relationship with Steve and
you had known Greg and you were like, well, they're
not gonna fire me or whatever it was, but you know,
but I just mean, you just came in and it

(49:57):
was immediately like, we're not doing brain surgery here, guys.
We're making comedy television and let's make it fun and
keep the atmosphere light. And I always respected you for that,
and Robin was the same way on set, just like
we're not going to take this too seriously, and um, yeah,

(50:20):
I just I always I always respected you for that
and feel like I learned from you about that. I've
taken to other projects to be like, let's let's keep
this loose, let's keep this light, because ultimately that energy
is just way more helpful to creating comedy television. Right. Yeah.
There's a great improv teacher and he runs the Annoyance

(50:42):
Theater in Chicago, and he's one of my peers in Chicago.
Guy named Mick Napier, and he's legendary at this point now,
but he had written a one man show at the
Annoyance for himself and it was called sex Boy because
Nick was going through his life and transition of whatever
he felt his sexuality was, so that was part of it.

(51:02):
He grew up in a small town in Indiana, and
you know, I think he may have been buy or whatever,
but just figuring that whole thing out and putting it
out on stage. But he had a preamble in his
program and he said, and I don't know if he
borrowed it from somewhere else, but he said, it's called
a play. It's not called a bore or a trial
or a suffering. It's called a play. So let us

(51:23):
do that. And I always thought, yes, it's called a play.
It's called a teleplay, it's called a screenplay. But the
operative word is to play. And our job is to
go out and play. And for me, if i'm the
best day ever is when you've got a job in
show business. So for me, I'm gonna pay witness to that.

(51:45):
Today we get to do the thing we wanted to
do when thousands and thousands and thousands of people who
want to do what we get to do don't get
to do it. So let's play and celebrate it. That's
my attitude, like, let's go have some fun. Yeah, that's
awesome did you feel because again they said come and
do what you do, that you felt the freedom to

(52:08):
just do what you do. There was no judgment, there
was no restraint. So yeah, I didn't. I didn't put
any guardrails or parameters on what I was gonna do,
and you never did. Yes. And plus the other thing,
I knew the characters based on Finchy from the original Office,
and Finchy was fucking crazy and awful. He's not as

(52:30):
bad as Finchy. Who remember Finchy takes one of the
girls from the office and he has sex with her
in the alleyway and the look on his face is
just priceless. Yeah, although you did, you know, poop in
Michael's office and serve laced cupcakes, which actually I thank

(52:53):
you for that because that was one of my most
favorite I mean, people talk about the chili or the
this or that, but one of my most favorite physical
comedy scenes that I was able to do was like
the flashback scene with Andy slash ed Helms and I
after we got dosed up on your cupcakes, maybe my favorite.

(53:16):
But I feel like your role is a real manifestation
of what ended up being a central part of the show,
which was Michael's journey right from I mean clearly a
friend of yours from early on, or at least wanted
to seem cool, to be a friend of yours, to
ultimately sort of, you know, shedding the shackles of you

(53:37):
and being able to sort of evolve as a human being. Exactly.
It's the representation of stunted adolescence, right. There are men
that never grow, and then then they don't when you
don't care to grow, when you won't take a signal,
or there's no desire to be a better human, or
if there's someone suggests that you don't hear it, and
in fact you try to defeat it, you would chat

(54:00):
lenge it. And you know, it's just that absolute stubbornness
that I'm fine, but it's also pain, right, I am
resolute in my pain, and I won't look at it.
I will only drown it. I'll drown it with alcohol,
I'll drown it with my noise, I'll drown it with
my terrible behavior. And and and then you find out you're
given license. When you're that horrible, no one dares to

(54:23):
challenge you because they don't want to be bear the
brunt of whatever you're gonna bring. They're just like, this
is a storm that's coming in. Because Packer is not
there all the time. It's a storm. I'll weather the storm,
battened down the hashes and wait for it to go away.
So that's what happens, right, And he's an emotional hand
grenade and he's a terrible storm. I've never thought of
that before, but that's exactly what happens. He's a storm

(54:43):
coming through and I was like, just let it go.
Let it go, because he's got this Ally and Michael,
until there are strong women that come into his life
and say no, no, that's not okay, that's interesting. Now.
I have you ever run across anyone that this point, Brian,
And you know this phenomenon as well as I do,
and it's something I can't quite wrap my head around.

(55:05):
The phenomenon that is The Office is unlike any television
show I would say in the history of television. It's
beyond compare. I've never been part of something this incredible.
I'm imagining the people from The Sopranos and Game of
Thrones have the same thing. But the difference is because
it's The Office and it's a comedy and it brings
something else to everybody's life. It's so important to people's

(55:27):
lives and their devotion to it. It changes people's lives
and it's it's it's a real deep part of their lives.
And you've heard people say it got me through cancer,
or it got me through this breakup, or it got
us together, and it's unlike anything else. Have you ever
heard anyone who has written a dissertation or their college

(55:48):
thesis on the office. Oh yeah, well there's first college
classes now that are to the show. Well, I think
I think the thing that is, and you know, it's
part of it. I've been exploring over the last couple
of years, which I think, as you say, it makes
it wholly unique from even the shows that you mentioned,
which was that seven eight years after we filmed anything,

(56:14):
it was bigger than it was when we were on
like it continues to expand and grow. Do you have
an idea of why that is? Here's the way I
look at it, and what I look at is why
it appeals to a twelve year old all the way
to a fifty year old. And beyond the way I
look at it is when they come to it at twelve,

(56:34):
they're exploring what they think is adult humor for the
first time, and they get it and they understand it
because it's so sharply written, like, oh, jokes can be
subtle and smart and big and broad and done at
the same time. So they're starting to see the tapestry
of humor. And then in high school it's kind of
like you get that shared communion of you get the

(56:58):
joke the way I get the joke. Yeah, it's a
hip show. There's hip humor in it too. There's the
obvious stuff, but then there's a saddle stuff, so there's
another thing. Then in college, I believe it gives you
that that security blanket of well, I'm gonna have to
go out in the world and work, but it's not
so scary because those buffoons on the office seem to

(57:19):
make it work and so it can't be that scarier place.
And then when you get into the workplace, you go, oh,
that's right, Well, at least it's not. Our place is
better than that place. But there are some people at
the work in this place that I like that place,
And as you're gone, then you embrace like where the office.
So that's why I think there's this thread that runs
through all of those things. The deep psychological impact. I

(57:44):
haven't broken that down, but that's the only threat. I
feel like I kind of have a beat on why
it's got that appeal from twelve to ninety. But the
psychological and the psychological thing I probably breaks down to
a bunch of different categories. And you know what Comedia
dell artein is and for the for your listeners, I
don't know if you talked about it. Comedia dell arte is.

(58:06):
It's an Italian art form and they based their characters there.
They had eleven archetypes based on these representations of what
humans were, from low class to high class, but all
of them were lampooned. And so I know we don't
have time to break it down, but if you look
at the office, they are all represented by one of
the comedy archetypes from Comedia dell arte as our most sitcoms,

(58:29):
and we're really just making fun of ourselves. And what
we do is we see ourselves represented on the screen
in those characters, and it gives us comfort and worth
and the ability to go on because I belong I'm
part of something larger than me, and I'm represented here
and that's me and that person is someone else I
love and you know, enjoy, or that person is a

(58:49):
caution and everyone recognizes that that's the worst person. We
all agree on that is terrible right now. I think
you're exactly right, you know. I mean, people talk about,
you know, Michael Scott, the character of Michael Scott, and
he says inappropriate things, and he says misguided things, but

(59:11):
I think that throughout the show, you really get to
know these people, and as mean as he is or
misguided as he is at times, he has a tremendous
amount of heart. And all of the characters have a
tremendous amount of heart, which I think brings comfort. I
don't know, but that's I think. I think you're absolutely right.

(59:32):
Every all the regular players on the show, you know,
we identify was struggle, and so everyone's struggling, but they
all succeed and they get through, and the best way
to get through is to have heart and to identify
with what kindness is and make the better choice. And
it might take someone several times to make the better choice,

(59:53):
but you're rooting for them, like, don't do that make
the right choice please this time? But you know you
have to not make that right choice a long time
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the United States Fourth Service and the AD Council. You
were on SNL. We haven't even talked about, but obviously
you know huge classic now all time comedy movies. Anchorman

(01:02:31):
champ Kind. What is the role now that you have
done throughout your career that you would say that you
are are most recognized for. Oh, well, it's Todd Packer
hands down, and then champ Kind second. It was a
puzzle to me because after three years of being on,
just two episodes of season of the Office, when you'd

(01:02:54):
see your name in print David Kicker from the Office
and Anchorman like, wait, no, it's Ackerman in the Office.
I'm not I'm not on the Office. I'm barely on
the Office. But I think the thing about Packer is
he was referenced a lot in the show, even when
he's not there, or I think people would feel there's like,

(01:03:15):
oh shit, something's going on, things are bad. Is Packer coming?
I think there's a pervasive feeling like it any is
a storm on its way? Can we avoid the storm?
Or just an episode where Packer is gonna show up
and it's always this loathsome feel like, oh, I don't
want I don't want the ghosts, the horrible ghost to

(01:03:37):
visit tonight. Yes, well, if Packer is coming, there's no
way to avoid them. Let's just be clear about that. There.
You might batten down the hatches, but you can't. You
can't protect yourself. Yes, things are gonna be overturned. I
do want to mention obviously, you are still incredibly busy

(01:03:58):
and successful, and I know right now you're on tour.
And by the way, I do have to say that,
I do have to tell you this. People ask me
now all the time, you know, I say, oh, I'm
going to this college or I'm going here there, and
they're like, oh, you know, stand up and I for me,
you you mentioned sort of this before. I can't even

(01:04:19):
call myself a stand up because I feel like it's
cheating because I didn't go through that before. It's cheating now.
But you're doing a live show, David Keckner dot com.
You can grab tickets there. You're going everywhere, right all
around the country. Yeah, this is the I'm doing more
dates this year than I ever had before because I'm

(01:04:40):
writing a new show and I will be doing a
special before the end of the year. Yeah. And you know,
it takes a long time to become a stand up,
and they say, and I've been doing it long enough
now that I feel like i can call myself one. Okay,
But you know, rather than trying to do what everybody
else is doing, I finally like, no, no, David, You've
got to embrace the thing that you do and do

(01:05:02):
more of that because there's so many great stand ups
that do so many different things well like that, do
what you do well, Dave, don't try and be a
little bit of this and a little bit of that before.
I think a lot of my show has been a
little bit of this, a little bit of that, like
compared to a lot of different influences that we've all had.
But then at some point you're like, well, what's your

(01:05:22):
thing do You're just an hour of just your thing
the way you want to do it, and they'll come
good for you to see that. There are moments sometimes
in shows if I'm doing a character piece where someone
who's used to the rhythm of the stand up going
from this joke to another. Now I'm in a character
like what and you know the thing that I have
and you have too, is like you've got to say

(01:05:43):
the stuff from the office and anchorman because that's what
got me here. So I do have to do that
in my show, and I recognize that. So once that's done, like, okay, guys,
we're done with that. Now comes my turn. I struggle
with whether to make them wait for it or just
getting off off the bats. I don't know. I'm the
same way. I don't There's not an answer. Okay, there's

(01:06:05):
you know, it's up to you. I think what I've done,
I've done both. I've done where I do it right away,
and I've done where I do it halfway through. And
I sometimes will do it when they yell right. You know,
after fifteen minutes, someone will yell whammy, and I know
they can't even pay attention to my show until they
hear whammy. It's almost like, Okay, I'll give you a whammy.

(01:06:28):
It's almost like a kid, all Right, you're gonna get
one cookie and then we're gonna you know, then we're
going home or whatever they We're gonna settle in and
watch the movie. Yes, you get popcorn and soda pop.
Then you've gotta be quiet for the whole movie. But
there is that because there's people who just can't stand it.
When's he gonna say whammy? What's he gonna say? What's up?
My nerds? I can't to hear you say what's up?

(01:06:50):
My nerds? I get it you and I can't run
from this. It's it's what got them in the seats
in the first places. That is through. I can't leave
you without talking about the Kansas City Chiefs. Maybe the
greatest game in the history of the NFL, the Buffalo

(01:07:14):
Bills losing somehow with thirteen seconds left on the clock
and Kansas City coming through. What your experience watching the
last thirteen plus seconds of that game, Well, I'd be
a liar if I didn't say I had availed myself
to the idea that it's okay, okay, it's okay. I

(01:07:36):
knew we were playing the best other team in my
estimation in the game this year. I knew that the
Buffalo Bills would be our toughest opponent of the year.
We've got so many weapons, You've got so much hope,
and we've got my homes and all of them. You
don't just say we've got my homes. We've got my
homes and Kelsey and Hill and Pringle and everybody you know,

(01:07:57):
and Williams and Edwards Hilaire on that front line. We've
got everything. But there is something about the magic of
these two quarterbacks, Alan and Mahomes, and they both kept
doing it, and it's you know, it's only about the time,
because they would have come back and scored, yeah, back
and forth all night. Yeah, we just happened to have

(01:08:18):
the ball. Alan played an absolutely perfect game and lost
and lost. Um so I was willing. I was willing
to accept defeat. I wasn't defeated. I was willing to go, Okay,
well we put it all out there too, and I
can't believe they came back after what we just did.
And there there's never because there's always talking about time

(01:08:41):
management and football. You left him too much time? You like,
you're like, what, you left him too much time? There's
thirteen seconds. Then you know you can't second guess their coach. Right,
let's put him deep on. Everyone could say you should
have swibbed it. You should have kicked an on side kick.
You shaid it, well, the should should and then how

(01:09:02):
are you gonna go? You know seventy yards that's not
going to happen. Well, yeah, well the special team it
does and it's okay, and you've got to be part
of a special game. And I felt too, was like, god,
do we start saying this is the greatest game. I
was at the Colosseum when the Chiefs and the Rams
scored a hundred and nine points and kept going back

(01:09:22):
and forth. That was an amazing game. We lost that one,
but the lesson was we were right there. We could
do it. We scored forty summer fifty points, right, like
we can do it. So yeah, it to be part
of a great game is something else. Yeah, it was amazing.
If you are playing in the super Bowl, good luck,

(01:09:43):
and if you're not, well you won. I think the
greatest game in the NFL history, the best game I've
ever seen. Yeah, I don't see how we're not there.
I'm pretty confident. But you know, one game, one day
at a time, and I know you and Aaron are close,
and uh, that's tough. Yeah, that was not as fun.

(01:10:06):
I'll be honest. I was hoping. I was hoping it
was going to be uh, the Chiefs and the Packers.
I thought it was going to be. I did too.
I thought I was pretty sure that's that's and I
thought that's going to be an incredible game because we
didn't play the Packers. We played the Packers without Aaron Rodgers.
Earlier in the season. We didn't beat the Packers. We
beat the Packers without Aaron Rodgers. That's not the Packers, right. Yeah, Well,

(01:10:32):
good luck, enjoy enjoy it, and Dave, thank you so
much for coming on. Pleasure, appreciate you so much and
sharing well you're inside about the office but also I
think some amazing words for for anyone who not only
has a dream of being an entertainer or in this business,
but but really any business. So thank you, my friend.

(01:10:54):
I appreciate you as well. Double be great to spend
time with you. Thank God for chechno aology so we
can hang out and it's wonderful. All my brother, best
your family, have a great day. That was amazing, David,

(01:11:22):
Thank you so much for stopping by. Funny I expected
Deep I did not, but hey, I loved it. All
of you out there listening, that was great, right, I
hope you enjoyed it. Off the Beat is going to
be freaking awesome. I'm so excited. I'm gonna be back

(01:11:45):
next week here with the man who brought the Office
to the States once again, Ben Silverman. It's gonna be
a bitter sweet episode, but I cannot wait to go
off the Beat with all of you. I'll see you then.

(01:12:07):
The Office. Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by
me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our producers
are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia. Our theme song Bubble
and Squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and
the episode was mixed by Seth Olandsky. I'm Sarah Wendell

(01:12:44):
and for close to twenty years, I've been a wildly
recognized expert in the world of romance. And I'm Alicia Ry,
best selling author of over twenty romance novels. Introducing I
Heart's new romance podcast, love Struck Daily. Every day we
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