March 2, 2021 • 46 mins
High school sweethearts (well, classmates) Brian and Ed Helms (Andy Bernard) reunite to talk about... the weather. Ed also dives into his Daily Show years, the Stamford office, and what it took to play the yuppie bro with a heart of gold.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi. My name is Cassidy Zachary and I am April
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wherever you get your podcasts. This is Ed Helms and
(01:28):
I played Andy Bernard on the Office. Hello everybody, welcome back.
This is the Office Deep Dive. In case you clicked
on the wrong podcast, I'm your host Brian baum Gartner.
Today I am delighted to bring you my conversation with
(01:53):
America's banjo playing sweetheart Ed Helms. Um. Now, a lot
of people don't know this. Ed and I knew each
other very well. I mean very well. We went to
the same high school. We went to the Westminster Schools
in Atlanta, Georgia. We were in the same ensemble choir
I think, or corral or something anyway where we sang
(02:17):
back when I pretended to sing. He still sings, but
I don't. I don't think so much anymore. But we
had a bond and we're not just Georgians or Atlanta's.
We are those things, but we are from the same
high school in the same area and grew up with
the same people. So our history is very very shared.
(02:38):
And Ed and I lost. We weren't in touch for
a number of years. He was doing stand up comedy
and was on The Daily Show in New York and
I was traveling around doing theater and eventually landed in
Los Angeles. And when we were shooting the webisodes, this
would have been the summer of two thousand and six,
(03:01):
and uh, I was shooting a talking head and suddenly,
right behind the camera, I see Greg Daniels walked by,
followed by Ed Helms, and all I I can't even
I don't even think at that moment, Oh, that's actor
Ed Helms or that's Daily Show correspondent Ed Helms. My
mind goes, that's why is Ed Helms here? My friend
(03:25):
from high school? Like that's all. Like he didn't call
and tell me he was coming. And uh, of course
he was in the middle of an interview and tour
with Greg Daniels, who he was meeting with about about
coming on the Office starting in season three. So that
was the first time I had seen him in a
a long time. But oh, man, if you ever get
(03:48):
a chance to spend in the evening with Ed Helms,
you will not be disappointed. He is joyful above all else,
more than any one else who was on the show,
or maybe anyone that I've ever met. He is a joyful,
soulfulful person. Soulful. I'm having trouble saying the word soulful,
(04:13):
but I think I got it the second time. I
don't know. Here is dead helms, Bubble and squeak. I
love it. Bubble and squeak on Bubble and squeaker cookie
every month left over from the nabb before. He dude,
(04:47):
are wonderful. Oh my god, it's so good to see
you too. You look so much older. Okay, alright, alright,
here's your ginger snaps? What is that so funny? I
don't know why that's there there for your assistant. Um,
she just started well a week and a half ago,
(05:10):
and you're not like I've never I've never had a
conversation with her about ginger snaps. So do you like gingers? Well? Sure,
who doesn't like ginger snap? I know, but it's that
like a thing that you ask for when you go
to work. Never, never, ever, have I ever asked for
ginger snaps. Yeah, I don't know. How are you. When
(05:30):
was the last time you were back in Atlanta? I
haven't been to Atlanta, and way too long I did.
I did three movies there over the last few years.
But um, I am getting a little homesick for Atlanta,
which I never thought i'd say. I'm very happy to
be not living there, but but I do like it
(05:52):
when I go back. Now, my last three years, I've
shot movies in North Carolina, Mexico, and Columbus Georgia. And
Columbus Georgia was the hottest. Yeah. Well, the hard part
about hot weather in the South, and I really hope
we can stick with weather as a subject. Sorry, but
(06:16):
I love it. No, honestly, it's fun to talk about Georgia.
I know, I know, I know from there, but it's
it does there's no reprieve like in l A or
in in desert climates, or or like even in the
Northeast it cools off at night, whereas in the South
there's no escape. Like if you're in the shade, you're
(06:37):
still muggy and hot, and then when night comes, it's
just a hot night. It's not like a cool like
the temperature does not go down. Um. Autumn, Yeah, Halloween
is when I miss miss Atlanta because that the autumn's
they're so long, they're so it's so protracted, the trees
(06:58):
are changing forever. That's when I get missed dive for right,
So you moved out of Atlanta, you went to the Northeast.
Now what were you doing right before you came onto
the Office. I was on the Daily Show. Yeah. Yeah,
I've been on the Daily Show for four and a
half years. And I had done a pilot for NBC
(07:25):
for Kevin Riley. It was really fun. It was a
multi camera pilot that I that the Daily Show let
me kind of sneak away to do. It's just a
few weeks of work and it did not get picked up,
but it was a ton of fun. And then it
went really well, and Kevin Riley was I guess he
liked he liked me, so he so he made a
(07:46):
talent deal with me at NBC. It's funny. I you know,
I remember I remember being at the Daily Show and
and and I knew Steve from the Daily Show. You
worked with him. Yeah, we we overlapped, not very much,
but an off that you know that we were acquaintances. Uh,
we overlapped probably five or six months or something. And
(08:07):
then I just remember getting word that he was gonna
do the Office and just thinking like that is so perfect,
that is going to be so good. So you knew
the British version of it, Yes for sure. Yeah, I mean,
I you know, I'm I'm a comedy nerd and was
very much in the comedy universe. And uh, and so
(08:30):
then the idea of I mean, Steve's character on the
on the Daily Show was at its best when he
was of sort of a version of Michael Scott, like
not self aware, kind of usually less informed than everyone
around him. Um, he was brilliant on the Daily Show
(08:52):
because he really kind of pioneered the form of Daily
Show segments in which the correspondent is the butt of
the jokes, as opposed to really just making fun of
somebody else, which, yeah, which is which is easy and
means spirited. Usually it's kind of shooting fish in a
bucket and it's not as interesting. But Steve kind of
(09:16):
really shifted that and found this way of being kind
of an idiot news reporter and that was so funny
and fresh and and still able to get great satire
into the pieces. Um, that's true. Often he played like
the pseudo expert or the you know, the teacher in
(09:37):
a way that then became yeah, just confident about the
wrong things, right. And and so that's why when I
heard he was going to do The Office. I just
was like that, I mean, yes, Ricky Gervais is a genius,
this version will also be great. Uh. And then it
was and what's crazy, I think I told you this
(09:59):
recently too, is that was so around that time, I
was just sort of looking for my exit strategy from
the Daily Show. I loved working there, but I knew
that I had to just shake things up because I
was really starting to feel like in a rut. So
I was auditioning for a lot of things, and I did.
I got. I auditioned for the The Office, like the
original cast of The Office in you auditioned for Jim.
(10:21):
Is that right? Yes, I'm almost positive. Then I auditioned
for Jim. Yeah. And you know, obviously it would have
been a better show if I were him, clearly, Um,
but this wasn't you were in New York because in
(10:42):
New York City, and and you know, I went to
thirty Rock at the casting office there, and I forget
the casting director's name. It was the head of casting
for NBC in New York. In New York. Yeah, Um,
and I just went in it was I was I
was excited about it because I knew the British for vision,
but I wasn't super optimistic or anything, and I don't
(11:05):
remember it being an especially good or bad audition. I
just kind of went in and I'd love to see
the tape. I don't know if it's so so great.
I know that, but like, yeah, Rain and Jenna's and
I've seen a few of them out there, but that's
so crazy that funny. I'll ask Allison Jones, um, so okay.
(11:30):
So then so you don't get Jim. Don't get Jim.
It's just sort of back to business as usual at
the Daily Show. I'm trying to cultivate some ideas to
bring back to NBC, maybe just you know, on the
off chance that they take a shot on developing a
real show with me. And I was out here for
(11:50):
some reason and Borg came down. Why don't you meet
with Greg and just have a chat. And so I
went in and we had a chat and it was great.
I remember Greg had seen this short that I did
with my friend Nick Poppy called Zombie American, and it
(12:11):
was it was basically a mockumentary about a zombie just
trying to get out on the dating scene and all
the sort of um, all the pitfalls of being like
why being a zombie is like a was the problem,
it's a liability on the on the dating scene. And uh.
It was you know, tiny little short with no budget,
but we spent all the money on the zombie makeup.
(12:32):
So it was like a hard commitment to full on
press thattic zombie, which made it super funny because I
the character was just a guy talking to the camera
and you know, talking about how like it's awkward on
a date when your finger falls off or or um
or when people you show up for a blind date
and they see you from afar and turn and walk
(12:53):
away and and and it was like a this really poignant,
very real but also obviously very silly piece and it's
it was like a ten minute short. And Greg had
seen that. I don't know how it was not out there,
but um, he'd gotten his hands on it. That I
think was probably my best foot forward as an office character,
(13:14):
because it was talking heads to the camera. It was
small performance, it was very it was just totally in
the same family as the office, so that was part
of the conversation. And then they then he and Paul
Paul Lieberstein came in and he started talking about this
character Andy Connecticut yacht club spoiled and obviously we're not
(13:38):
from Connecticut, we're not from yacht clubs, but we're from
you know, we went to prep school in Atlanta with
I think kids that are totally analogous to Andy Bernard,
and so it was a type that I understood immediately,
white white belt with the just like yeah loafers upbraided
white belt and holos and so knew that. So yeah,
(14:02):
we just started talking about it and it and it
was making us laugh and pitching kind of like, oh yeah,
he probably took sailing lessons but never passed the test
that allows you to actually take sailboats out from the
club because he just wasn't good at I don't know,
just like dumb fun stuff that when we were laughing
about it, and then I went back to work at
(14:26):
the Daily Show and got the call that hey, we're
gonna do a couple of episodes, you know in this
Scranton off I mean in the Stanford Stanford office, and
I was told it would be two months of work.
They had in mind eight episodes, I think. So I
went to my ep at the Daily Show and I said, look,
(14:50):
this is Steve's show, it's in the family. What do
you say, Can I go and do this? It's two months,
it's a long time. This was also right around the
time that Colbert had left to do the Colbert Report.
It just was kind of a fraught time for correspondence
at the Daily Show. UM, and they were very skittish
(15:12):
about it, and they were like, I just we don't
think we can let you go. You know, it's there's
a lot going on in the world and we just
need And I was very I was very disappointed, but
you know, tried to kind of understand that, and it
put me in this bind where I was like, I
(15:33):
can either resign from the Daily Show for two months
of work or turned down the Office. And my analysis was, well,
I've been on the Daily Show for four and a
half years. There's nothing I can do on this show
now that's gonna like change how I'm perceived out there.
(15:55):
I'll get better and better and do hopefully do funnier
and funnier stuff, but it's not no one's gonna see
that I can act. No one's gonna see that I
can do other stuff. And the Office was not a
hit at this point either. Like it was. It was
it was like a very show that I loved, but
it was by no means like a sure thing to
jump into. But I just decided it was worth the
(16:18):
risk and I had to. I had like, even if
I only worked for those eight weeks, I would have
a really good new thing. So I took the plunge
and the rest is history. As they say, it's a
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It scared me to death, Like it scared me. I
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I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts. So Gregg talked to me about the idea
(20:33):
of Andy and Stanford as being basically to Jim Dwight
in Scranton, but with a whole different demeanor, Right, Like
you talked about preppy East Coast waspy, little ivy but
incompetent and idiot, but in a totally different way than
(20:54):
the trans am heavy metal dungeons and dragon weird nerd
in in Scranton. Right, Were you aware of that? I
don't think I understood at that time exactly how analogous
Stanford was supposed to be to Scranton, And I didn't
think too hard about it because It was really interesting
(21:18):
because this we shot obviously, all of our stuff was
on the on another set, and we didn't interact with
you guys much at all during that time, just by
virtue of the fact that we were shooting on separate
stages at different times and different stories and all that stuff.
So I really felt like we were in our own show,
(21:39):
like we were kind of doing our own thing. Um.
And it was instantly the most fun thing I've ever done.
Like it was instantly. It just was so joyful. Rashida
and I were kind of the new kids, like we
we were a little click that kind of had each
other's back. The writers were clearly having fun with our characters,
(22:01):
which is the best. I mean, that's when it's you're
really having fun. The writers were showing up to set
and joking around with us, and John was I mean John,
he obviously was such a stalwart of the show at
that and and central character, so his disposition towards us
(22:21):
really mattered, I think, to us and to our kind
of like self esteem coming into this, and he could
not have been more warm and fun and playful, and
but like having the confidence of somebody who had been there.
A couple of years or you know, it was really
just a year, two seasons. Um. We just jelled and
(22:44):
were instantly having fun and making each other laugh um
a lot. It just felt great. Yeah, I never thought
about this before until you started talking that. It's almost
as though John, in the middle of doing a show,
basically had a spin off that then was still a
(23:05):
part of the same show, right, like a spin office
taking a character and going and creating another show around
that character in a different environment. And in a way,
that's what was happening. I think looking back, I I mean,
I think that that was a test of us about
an actual spinoff. But I don't I mean, I'm not
in Greg's head. I don't know the answer that. I've
(23:27):
never asked him that, but I years later, looking back,
it just seemed like it was just like a set
up for a spin It's it's the way sitcomes at
that time. We're spinning shows off, like you put someone
in a new environment and all of a sudden introduced
new characters and all of a sudden, like they're in
a new times line. Um. But but I don't know that.
(23:49):
I don't know if it's t or not. But you're
you're right. It did. It was kind of a classic
spinoff move. It just wound up re kind of merging
back into the into the original show. Yeah, I've been
thinking a lot about and you hear about the office.
You think of the office as being sort of in
a place of stasis, right that there's the bullpen, and
(24:11):
that's what the office is, and people get used to that,
and people like that, and they don't typically like it
when something changes. But I felt like what Greg did,
he kept, whether it was conscious or not, creating sort
of a new kinetic energy by disrupting by making Jim
(24:34):
go to Stanford, by making Pam go to art school,
you know. And that helped the momentum of the show,
and I think provided a stark relief for comparison because,
like you were saying before, it really was an analog
Chip as the boss was so different from Michael Scott
(24:55):
like he was. He was sort of like the cool
jock boss, right, but but problematic for other reasons, you know,
like wanting to play Call of Duty all the time.
And uh. And then I my my character being sort
of like a Dwight analog, as you said, but totally different.
Rashida being romantic competitor. It's all like, yeah, I think it.
(25:19):
It's just served to really heighten all of what was
great about Scranton. Yeah, so at some point you are
told that you're going to stick around and now you're
going to come in and join scrant How was that transition?
So I can't remember when it became clear that I
(25:40):
was going to stick around, if it was before we
did started doing episodes in Scranton or after, because I
think Andy's departure to Anger Management was sort of like
the end of my agreed upon time. I can't quite
remember all that timeline, but I will say this, those
first few episodes in the Scranton office was like it's
(26:07):
like a little kid walking into Yankee Stadium. Like even
though the show wasn't huge, it was huge to me.
And I loved it, and I loved what everybody was doing,
and I just thought it was the funniest thing in
the world. And so to walk in onto that set
and actually have lines and have like fun stuff to do,
(26:28):
I just felt like I was in the major leagues
and uh in it, but not in an intimidating way,
in a like supported way, and um, you guys, everyone
was so cool right. It just was such a great
group of people. Yeah. Uh, it was just fun. Well
and and you know, now hearing more of the specifics
(26:51):
of your story. Early on, I mean, we were all
a group of actors that had had minimal to no
six sess in television and film at that point, from
varying degrees, like six months before I was doing theater
and just just starting right. And you know, Steve had
done obviously The Daily Show. But when even when Steve
(27:14):
was on, it was kind of before The Daily Show
was cool cool, it was it was the Bush administration
that really I think launched it. I mean, Graig Kilborne
was great and I was a fan from then, but
again that's just because I'm a comedy nerd. I think
in the zeitgeist, it really was George Bush that kind
of catapulted the Daily Show. Um, and so yeah, everybody
(27:36):
I think had the attitude that they had because no
one seemed bigger than anybody else. You know, there wasn't
the structure that exists where there's the star and there's
the kind of star and there. You know, like everybody
was kind of figuring it out. And as the show
started to pick up and we were all sort of
a part of that together. Yeah, I remember that that year,
(28:01):
so I got kind of officially brought into the cast
and was in the regular season after Anger Anger Management.
I was just there. I was like part of the show.
And the Emmys were around that time, and that year
the Daily Show and the Office one Emmys for Best Show,
(28:22):
and I was like, I'm doing something right. This is
going pretty good. But that was that was really fun.
That was and the Emmy's of course, was such a
fun thing for the cast and everybody just oh man,
those are those are great? The salad days, the salad days,
(28:44):
good times. Hello, and welcome to our show. I'm Zoie
de Channel and I'm so excited to be joined by
my friends and cast mates Hannah Simone and lam More
and more to recap our hit television series New Girl.
Join us every Monday on the Welcome to Our Show podcast,
(29:06):
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Plus each week you'll hear hilarious stories like this at
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or wherever you get your podcasts. On the latest season
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We spent a lot of time together around a dining
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it was a very intense experience. All episodes of Next
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(30:33):
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the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you
get your podcast. How much do you think the character
of Andy is like you? Ed Well, I would say
(31:41):
that not very He's not very much like me, but
only because I'm I have better editing mechanisms for my
own behavior. But I think a lot of Andy's impulses
and instincts are you know, I relate to, Uh, He's
just not self aware enough to put a check on them.
(32:06):
There are things that I actually really envy about Andy
that I wish I was more like um and the
Angela storyline really I think brought that out that that
was a thing that made me I mean, I was
kind of loved Andy's douche baggery from a comedy standpoint,
it's just fun and ridiculous. But the Angela stuff, like
(32:32):
just seeing him really put his heart on his sleeve.
I felt, that's when I really fell in love with
this this character and I And that's something that I
I've always struggled with. Maybe it's part of just our
southern upbringing, but like expressing emotions in real ways and
being transparent and being you know, just chasing something that
(32:55):
you love and that means a lot to you. It's
that was that's it was hard for me. It was
hard for me to kind of mature in that way. Uh.
And Andy is just he's the best, Like that's the
he's he fell in love with Angela, and I was like,
this is it. I'm all in and I love you
(33:16):
and he and everybody knew it, and he was there
was no shame, there was no kind of reticence. And
I think I just always loved that about Andy. And
I think that his rage was a kind of the
flip side of that, like he just wasn't able to
kind of control the expression of his emotions. Uh, and
(33:40):
sometimes when he should have and it had beautiful consequences
in in some of his romantic relationships and then obviously
devastating consequences and in other ways. But I think that
that's what you know, Greg and the other writers and
you obviously in creating that Arcter and and everybody. But
(34:02):
you know, we talked a lot about I've talked a
lot about the more specific the characters are drawn, the
more universal they become. And so you think, oh, let's
paint in broad strokes, this is generally who this guy is, right,
And it's the white braided belts and the polo shirts,
(34:27):
and that's who that guy is. Okay, I get Andy,
That's that's who Andy is. But no, he had one
of the biggest hearts on the show and was able
to express that in a really specific, true, genuine way,
and that that dichotomy and complexity I feel like made
him really real and lovable. Yeah, I think you're you're
(34:49):
onto something specificity, which I think a lot of comedy
writers sometimes shy away from because the the the instinct
is like the more specific I draw a character, the
more people won't relate to that character. But it's the opposite,
Like to your point, it is the exact opposite, and
I think of like, I was just having this conversation
(35:11):
with a writer the other day about how John hughes
movies we're you know, on paper, John Hughes shot all
his movies in Glencoe, Illinois, which is one of the
most affluent suburbs in the country. I mean, all mansions,
all beautiful lawns, everything. You know, it shouldn't be relatable, right,
(35:32):
that should be that should be alienating to everybody, And
yet there's so much specificity in those characters. And that's
what people find themselves in that specificity because audiences say,
you know, I may not understand how a teenager can
drive a BMW, but I can understand how that character
(35:54):
is devastated by that breakup that they're having, or or
the fact that the way that they're acting out, or
the way that um this little passion that they have
is getting made fun of by their friends or whatever. It's.
It's those details allow more people to connect. Um. You
talked about your relationship with with Angela Um and how
(36:16):
that's how you began to fall in love with Andy Um.
Do you think that his well, the fact that he
was a cuckolt, like, did that begin to make him
more sympathetic to audiences as well. Yeah, for sure. Uh,
that was a pretty sly move, I think on the
(36:36):
on Greg's part, I'm trying to kind of tap back
into my my thoughts. At the time, it felt really
fun to unleash that part of Andy because so much
of what he did was antagonistic and sort of confrontational
(36:57):
or passive aggressive. And for him to have to be
putting positive energy out there, even though it was so
misplaced or so well it was misapplied to Angela, that
was so fun and it just it made It's part
of what I think positive energy makes someone like, makes
an audience like a character. Um, you don't get Angela
(37:21):
and then Aaron shows up talk a little bit about
that relationship because I didn't remember that you're love for
her or your initial fascination starts like the first day
she's there. It's like, oh, well, there's there's a new
one in the office. Let's go for her. You've got
(37:43):
no baggage with this person. We can write our own story.
Let's start from scratch. Here we go. Yeah, that's yeah,
that's great. Um. I think that in thinking about it,
that the Andy and Aaron storyline becomes you know, kind
of a parallel with what was happening what happened with
(38:05):
Jim and Pam earlier. It just had a slightly more
absurdist bent to it. There were still tender moments, there
was still that longing on both sides. Um. But I
think that I don't know, talk about that a little
bit if if you recall your approach to it, or
did the writers talk to you about where that relationship
(38:25):
was going to go from the beginning or No, I
don't think so. I don't think there was a uh
an arc spelled out early on. But you know, Aaron's
energy was just so funny and it felt right for
Andy in a way, both of them being very left
(38:45):
footed socially kind of made them perfect for each other,
but also like gave them lots of stumbling. You know,
it's like a pigeon toed person dancing with a bow
legged person, like does this it looks like an egg beater?
Like is this this is weird? Um? And I guess
some it just felt right and fun and then there
(39:11):
was a lot of um obviously, just a lot of
complication that I think emerged in ways that Andy and
Aaron sabotaged the relationships and their their own relationship in
different ways. Um. I loved that chapter. I don't I
(39:31):
don't remember exactly how it wound down, but I remember
being a little confused about sort of like how how
that storyline kind of got wrapped up. And I think
I remember not enjoying the shooting the episodes as much
where we were in conflict, you know, when there was
(39:53):
like real bad stuff happening between Andy and Aaron, it
wasn't as fun. It just but I mean, that's that's
just an actor complaining. Um, But I think there was
something so breezy and simple and natural about just kind
of goofing off with Aaron and finding that comedy was
(40:15):
very fun, and then later on tapping into darker parts
of these characters that, like I said, they sabotaged the
relationship in different ways. It felt a little harder to
make funny or harder to make silly, and um but yeah, um.
In the New York Times, Paul said about you and Andy,
(40:42):
he had so much in common with this character we
wanted to create. I can't remember when they started merging.
He has this undeniable likability when he's at his most awful,
you can't help but love the guy. I think that's
true about me or about Andy, Well, I do. I
that's a really flattering thing, and that's uh and it
(41:07):
speaks to what a sweet and wonderful person Paul is.
But I that is my greatest hope for the character
of Andy, that that he can be kind of wretched
but in a way that you can tell is in
spite of himself, and that he really does want to
be better. You know, That's the part I think I
(41:29):
connect with the most and feel like it's the most
I have the most in common with Andy is like
I I I stumble through the world socially and in
relationships and all of it. I think, like most of us,
I just I always I am frustrated at myself when
(41:49):
I screw it up, whatever it is, and whether it's
a simple social interaction or a big meaningful thing in
my life, whatever it is. I but I want to
be better. I just want to be better, and I
try to be better, and I still fail a lot. Um.
It's why I'm so grateful to everyone in my life
who loves me, because it's always stumbling through all of it.
(42:11):
But um, Andy at his core wants to be good,
He wants to be a good person. He wants to
say the right thing, and only occasionally does he nail
it right. There's times where Andy was not just beautiful
in his expressions of love, but sometimes really tender and
(42:33):
like a good listener. Right, And that's not something we
associate with Andy Bernard at all, but those are those
are moments where I think his better angels are really
intervening and kind of guiding him because but they're there
like his his desire to be better and his instincts
are constantly fighting his reactionary impulses. All right, we're gonna
(43:08):
stop there for now. Sorry. I know Ed is amazing
to listen to, and what I love is the love
that he has for Andy Bernard. You know, there were
a lot of people who didn't love Andy Bernard, but
Ed Helms loved Andy Bernard. And that is the sign
of a true artist and great actor. Lesson lesson one
(43:32):
from me, Never ever judge your characters. Just find a
way to fall in love with them. But we are
going to hear more from Ed h in an upcoming episode,
so stay tuned for that. Thank you to Ed for
joining me for part one. Although you'll you'll be back
for part two uh and thank you all for listening.
(43:53):
We will see you next week. The Office Deep Dive
is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside
our executive producer Langley. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer.
(44:14):
Our associate producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor
is Diego Tapia. My main man in the booth is
Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by
my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed
by seth O Landscape from Cavalry Audio, the studio that
(44:51):
brought you The Devil Within and The Shadow Girls comes
a new true crime podcast, The Pink Moon Murders. The
local sheriff of leaves there may be more than one killer.
They were afraid he's face it out in that area.
The family was targeted, most of them targeted while they
were sleeping. The Pink Moon Murders is available on February
twenty second, and you can follow The Pink Moon Murders
(45:12):
on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts. Hey Lee, the listeners take here.
Last season on Lethal Lit. You might remember I came
to Hollow Falls on a mission. Well, I'm finding out
that in this town, the dead don't keep their secrets
for long, and the bodies keep piling up. The second
(45:37):
season if Lethal Lit is available now on the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Hi. I'm Hillary Clinton and I'm so
excited to be back with a third season of You
and Me Both. When I started this podcast, we were
(45:58):
going through some tough times, and let's face it, we
still are. And here's what I know. We cannot get
through this alone. So please join me for more conversations
with people who will make you think, make you laugh,
and help us find a path forward. This season, I'll
be talking about the state of our democracy with experts
(46:18):
and with people organizing on the ground. We'll draw inspiration
from some amazing people like Olympic star Alison Felix and
Grammy Award winner Brandy Carlisle. And we'll get into the
hard stuff with writer Cheryl Strait and my dear friend
and colleague, Huma Aberdeen. So join us. Listen to You
(46:39):
and Me Both on the I Heart Radio app, Apple
podcast or wherever you get your podcasts
Hi. My name is Cassidy Zachary and I am April
Callaghan and we are fashion historian and co hosts and
the creators of the podcast Dressed the History of Fashion,
which is dedicated to investigating the significance of dress from
throughout history and around the world. And we are so
excited to bring you a brand new season celebrating groundbreaking
(00:20):
fashion figures and exploring the history of everything from coursts
to blue jeans. Dressed the History of Fashion is available
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(00:44):
Find a forest near you and discover the force dot org.
Brought to you by the United States for Service and
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in Treatment, a weekly podcast of shocking survivor experiences and
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(01:06):
of one team treatment facility each season. First up, Provo
Canyon School. This one is personal. Listen to Trapped in
Treatment on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get your podcasts. This is Ed Helms and
(01:28):
I played Andy Bernard on the Office. Hello everybody, welcome back.
This is the Office Deep Dive. In case you clicked
on the wrong podcast, I'm your host Brian baum Gartner.
Today I am delighted to bring you my conversation with
(01:53):
America's banjo playing sweetheart Ed Helms. Um. Now, a lot
of people don't know this. Ed and I knew each
other very well. I mean very well. We went to
the same high school. We went to the Westminster Schools
in Atlanta, Georgia. We were in the same ensemble choir
I think, or corral or something anyway where we sang
(02:17):
back when I pretended to sing. He still sings, but
I don't. I don't think so much anymore. But we
had a bond and we're not just Georgians or Atlanta's.
We are those things, but we are from the same
high school in the same area and grew up with
the same people. So our history is very very shared.
(02:38):
And Ed and I lost. We weren't in touch for
a number of years. He was doing stand up comedy
and was on The Daily Show in New York and
I was traveling around doing theater and eventually landed in
Los Angeles. And when we were shooting the webisodes, this
would have been the summer of two thousand and six,
(03:01):
and uh, I was shooting a talking head and suddenly,
right behind the camera, I see Greg Daniels walked by,
followed by Ed Helms, and all I I can't even
I don't even think at that moment, Oh, that's actor
Ed Helms or that's Daily Show correspondent Ed Helms. My
mind goes, that's why is Ed Helms here? My friend
(03:25):
from high school? Like that's all. Like he didn't call
and tell me he was coming. And uh, of course
he was in the middle of an interview and tour
with Greg Daniels, who he was meeting with about about
coming on the Office starting in season three. So that
was the first time I had seen him in a
a long time. But oh, man, if you ever get
(03:48):
a chance to spend in the evening with Ed Helms,
you will not be disappointed. He is joyful above all else,
more than any one else who was on the show,
or maybe anyone that I've ever met. He is a joyful,
soulfulful person. Soulful. I'm having trouble saying the word soulful,
(04:13):
but I think I got it the second time. I
don't know. Here is dead helms, Bubble and squeak. I
love it. Bubble and squeak on Bubble and squeaker cookie
every month left over from the nabb before. He dude,
(04:47):
are wonderful. Oh my god, it's so good to see
you too. You look so much older. Okay, alright, alright,
here's your ginger snaps? What is that so funny? I
don't know why that's there there for your assistant. Um,
she just started well a week and a half ago,
(05:10):
and you're not like I've never I've never had a
conversation with her about ginger snaps. So do you like gingers? Well? Sure,
who doesn't like ginger snap? I know, but it's that
like a thing that you ask for when you go
to work. Never, never, ever, have I ever asked for
ginger snaps. Yeah, I don't know. How are you. When
(05:30):
was the last time you were back in Atlanta? I
haven't been to Atlanta, and way too long I did.
I did three movies there over the last few years.
But um, I am getting a little homesick for Atlanta,
which I never thought i'd say. I'm very happy to
be not living there, but but I do like it
(05:52):
when I go back. Now, my last three years, I've
shot movies in North Carolina, Mexico, and Columbus Georgia. And
Columbus Georgia was the hottest. Yeah. Well, the hard part
about hot weather in the South, and I really hope
we can stick with weather as a subject. Sorry, but
(06:16):
I love it. No, honestly, it's fun to talk about Georgia.
I know, I know, I know from there, but it's
it does there's no reprieve like in l A or
in in desert climates, or or like even in the
Northeast it cools off at night, whereas in the South
there's no escape. Like if you're in the shade, you're
(06:37):
still muggy and hot, and then when night comes, it's
just a hot night. It's not like a cool like
the temperature does not go down. Um. Autumn, Yeah, Halloween
is when I miss miss Atlanta because that the autumn's
they're so long, they're so it's so protracted, the trees
(06:58):
are changing forever. That's when I get missed dive for right,
So you moved out of Atlanta, you went to the Northeast.
Now what were you doing right before you came onto
the Office. I was on the Daily Show. Yeah. Yeah,
I've been on the Daily Show for four and a
half years. And I had done a pilot for NBC
(07:25):
for Kevin Riley. It was really fun. It was a
multi camera pilot that I that the Daily Show let
me kind of sneak away to do. It's just a
few weeks of work and it did not get picked up,
but it was a ton of fun. And then it
went really well, and Kevin Riley was I guess he
liked he liked me, so he so he made a
(07:46):
talent deal with me at NBC. It's funny. I you know,
I remember I remember being at the Daily Show and
and and I knew Steve from the Daily Show. You
worked with him. Yeah, we we overlapped, not very much,
but an off that you know that we were acquaintances. Uh,
we overlapped probably five or six months or something. And
(08:07):
then I just remember getting word that he was gonna
do the Office and just thinking like that is so perfect,
that is going to be so good. So you knew
the British version of it, Yes for sure. Yeah, I mean,
I you know, I'm I'm a comedy nerd and was
very much in the comedy universe. And uh, and so
(08:30):
then the idea of I mean, Steve's character on the
on the Daily Show was at its best when he
was of sort of a version of Michael Scott, like
not self aware, kind of usually less informed than everyone
around him. Um, he was brilliant on the Daily Show
(08:52):
because he really kind of pioneered the form of Daily
Show segments in which the correspondent is the butt of
the jokes, as opposed to really just making fun of
somebody else, which, yeah, which is which is easy and
means spirited. Usually it's kind of shooting fish in a
bucket and it's not as interesting. But Steve kind of
(09:16):
really shifted that and found this way of being kind
of an idiot news reporter and that was so funny
and fresh and and still able to get great satire
into the pieces. Um, that's true. Often he played like
the pseudo expert or the you know, the teacher in
(09:37):
a way that then became yeah, just confident about the
wrong things, right. And and so that's why when I
heard he was going to do The Office. I just
was like that, I mean, yes, Ricky Gervais is a genius,
this version will also be great. Uh. And then it
was and what's crazy, I think I told you this
(09:59):
recently too, is that was so around that time, I
was just sort of looking for my exit strategy from
the Daily Show. I loved working there, but I knew
that I had to just shake things up because I
was really starting to feel like in a rut. So
I was auditioning for a lot of things, and I did.
I got. I auditioned for the The Office, like the
original cast of The Office in you auditioned for Jim.
(10:21):
Is that right? Yes, I'm almost positive. Then I auditioned
for Jim. Yeah. And you know, obviously it would have
been a better show if I were him, clearly, Um,
but this wasn't you were in New York because in
(10:42):
New York City, and and you know, I went to
thirty Rock at the casting office there, and I forget
the casting director's name. It was the head of casting
for NBC in New York. In New York. Yeah, Um,
and I just went in it was I was I
was excited about it because I knew the British for vision,
but I wasn't super optimistic or anything, and I don't
(11:05):
remember it being an especially good or bad audition. I
just kind of went in and I'd love to see
the tape. I don't know if it's so so great.
I know that, but like, yeah, Rain and Jenna's and
I've seen a few of them out there, but that's
so crazy that funny. I'll ask Allison Jones, um, so okay.
(11:30):
So then so you don't get Jim. Don't get Jim.
It's just sort of back to business as usual at
the Daily Show. I'm trying to cultivate some ideas to
bring back to NBC, maybe just you know, on the
off chance that they take a shot on developing a
real show with me. And I was out here for
(11:50):
some reason and Borg came down. Why don't you meet
with Greg and just have a chat. And so I
went in and we had a chat and it was great.
I remember Greg had seen this short that I did
with my friend Nick Poppy called Zombie American, and it
(12:11):
was it was basically a mockumentary about a zombie just
trying to get out on the dating scene and all
the sort of um, all the pitfalls of being like
why being a zombie is like a was the problem,
it's a liability on the on the dating scene. And uh.
It was you know, tiny little short with no budget,
but we spent all the money on the zombie makeup.
(12:32):
So it was like a hard commitment to full on
press thattic zombie, which made it super funny because I
the character was just a guy talking to the camera
and you know, talking about how like it's awkward on
a date when your finger falls off or or um
or when people you show up for a blind date
and they see you from afar and turn and walk
(12:53):
away and and and it was like a this really poignant,
very real but also obviously very silly piece and it's
it was like a ten minute short. And Greg had
seen that. I don't know how it was not out there,
but um, he'd gotten his hands on it. That I
think was probably my best foot forward as an office character,
(13:14):
because it was talking heads to the camera. It was
small performance, it was very it was just totally in
the same family as the office, so that was part
of the conversation. And then they then he and Paul
Paul Lieberstein came in and he started talking about this
character Andy Connecticut yacht club spoiled and obviously we're not
(13:38):
from Connecticut, we're not from yacht clubs, but we're from
you know, we went to prep school in Atlanta with
I think kids that are totally analogous to Andy Bernard,
and so it was a type that I understood immediately,
white white belt with the just like yeah loafers upbraided
white belt and holos and so knew that. So yeah,
(14:02):
we just started talking about it and it and it
was making us laugh and pitching kind of like, oh yeah,
he probably took sailing lessons but never passed the test
that allows you to actually take sailboats out from the
club because he just wasn't good at I don't know,
just like dumb fun stuff that when we were laughing
about it, and then I went back to work at
(14:26):
the Daily Show and got the call that hey, we're
gonna do a couple of episodes, you know in this
Scranton off I mean in the Stanford Stanford office, and
I was told it would be two months of work.
They had in mind eight episodes, I think. So I
went to my ep at the Daily Show and I said, look,
(14:50):
this is Steve's show, it's in the family. What do
you say, Can I go and do this? It's two months,
it's a long time. This was also right around the
time that Colbert had left to do the Colbert Report.
It just was kind of a fraught time for correspondence
at the Daily Show. UM, and they were very skittish
(15:12):
about it, and they were like, I just we don't
think we can let you go. You know, it's there's
a lot going on in the world and we just
need And I was very I was very disappointed, but
you know, tried to kind of understand that, and it
put me in this bind where I was like, I
(15:33):
can either resign from the Daily Show for two months
of work or turned down the Office. And my analysis was, well,
I've been on the Daily Show for four and a
half years. There's nothing I can do on this show
now that's gonna like change how I'm perceived out there.
(15:55):
I'll get better and better and do hopefully do funnier
and funnier stuff, but it's not no one's gonna see
that I can act. No one's gonna see that I
can do other stuff. And the Office was not a
hit at this point either. Like it was. It was
it was like a very show that I loved, but
it was by no means like a sure thing to
jump into. But I just decided it was worth the
(16:18):
risk and I had to. I had like, even if
I only worked for those eight weeks, I would have
a really good new thing. So I took the plunge
and the rest is history. As they say, it's a
(16:42):
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to hire, you need Indeed. And we're live here outside
the Perez family home, just waiting for the And there
they go, almost on time. This morning. Mom is coming
out the front door strong with a double arm kid carry.
Looks like dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up
the rear. Oh but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers
(18:37):
and toys are everywhere. Oh but mom has just nailed
the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now
the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten,
has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the
bag clothes and they're off, but looks like Mom doesn't
realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of
the car and there it goes. Ah, that's a shame
(19:01):
that mug was a fan favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff,
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(19:23):
Devil Within and The Shadow Girls, comes a new true
crime podcast, The Pink Moon Murders. The local sheriff believes
there may be more than one killery. It's been four
days since those bodies were found and there's no arrest
as it this morning. They were afraid it's face it
out in that area, what if they come back or whatever.
It scared me to death, Like it scared me. I
(19:45):
was very very intimidating to live here. Crazy to think
you go to sleep one night maybe snuggling with your
loved one and never wake up, or maybe you wake
up in a struggle for your life, which you lose.
Joint host David Raderman as he explores one fateful night
when evil descended upon smaller town, Ohio killed eight members
of an Ohio family in a pre planned execution. The
(20:06):
family was targeted, most of them targeted while they were sleeping.
The Pink Moon Murders is available on February twenty second,
and you can follow The Pink Moon Murders on the
I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts. So Gregg talked to me about the idea
(20:33):
of Andy and Stanford as being basically to Jim Dwight
in Scranton, but with a whole different demeanor, Right, Like
you talked about preppy East Coast waspy, little ivy but
incompetent and idiot, but in a totally different way than
(20:54):
the trans am heavy metal dungeons and dragon weird nerd
in in Scranton. Right, Were you aware of that? I
don't think I understood at that time exactly how analogous
Stanford was supposed to be to Scranton, And I didn't
think too hard about it because It was really interesting
(21:18):
because this we shot obviously, all of our stuff was
on the on another set, and we didn't interact with
you guys much at all during that time, just by
virtue of the fact that we were shooting on separate
stages at different times and different stories and all that stuff.
So I really felt like we were in our own show,
(21:39):
like we were kind of doing our own thing. Um.
And it was instantly the most fun thing I've ever done.
Like it was instantly. It just was so joyful. Rashida
and I were kind of the new kids, like we
we were a little click that kind of had each
other's back. The writers were clearly having fun with our characters,
(22:01):
which is the best. I mean, that's when it's you're
really having fun. The writers were showing up to set
and joking around with us, and John was I mean John,
he obviously was such a stalwart of the show at
that and and central character, so his disposition towards us
(22:21):
really mattered, I think, to us and to our kind
of like self esteem coming into this, and he could
not have been more warm and fun and playful, and
but like having the confidence of somebody who had been there.
A couple of years or you know, it was really
just a year, two seasons. Um. We just jelled and
(22:44):
were instantly having fun and making each other laugh um
a lot. It just felt great. Yeah, I never thought
about this before until you started talking that. It's almost
as though John, in the middle of doing a show,
basically had a spin off that then was still a
(23:05):
part of the same show, right, like a spin office
taking a character and going and creating another show around
that character in a different environment. And in a way,
that's what was happening. I think looking back, I I mean,
I think that that was a test of us about
an actual spinoff. But I don't I mean, I'm not
in Greg's head. I don't know the answer that. I've
(23:27):
never asked him that, but I years later, looking back,
it just seemed like it was just like a set
up for a spin It's it's the way sitcomes at
that time. We're spinning shows off, like you put someone
in a new environment and all of a sudden introduced
new characters and all of a sudden, like they're in
a new times line. Um. But but I don't know that.
(23:49):
I don't know if it's t or not. But you're
you're right. It did. It was kind of a classic
spinoff move. It just wound up re kind of merging
back into the into the original show. Yeah, I've been
thinking a lot about and you hear about the office.
You think of the office as being sort of in
a place of stasis, right that there's the bullpen, and
(24:11):
that's what the office is, and people get used to that,
and people like that, and they don't typically like it
when something changes. But I felt like what Greg did,
he kept, whether it was conscious or not, creating sort
of a new kinetic energy by disrupting by making Jim
(24:34):
go to Stanford, by making Pam go to art school,
you know. And that helped the momentum of the show,
and I think provided a stark relief for comparison because,
like you were saying before, it really was an analog
Chip as the boss was so different from Michael Scott
(24:55):
like he was. He was sort of like the cool
jock boss, right, but but problematic for other reasons, you know,
like wanting to play Call of Duty all the time.
And uh. And then I my my character being sort
of like a Dwight analog, as you said, but totally different.
Rashida being romantic competitor. It's all like, yeah, I think it.
(25:19):
It's just served to really heighten all of what was
great about Scranton. Yeah, so at some point you are
told that you're going to stick around and now you're
going to come in and join scrant How was that transition?
So I can't remember when it became clear that I
(25:40):
was going to stick around, if it was before we
did started doing episodes in Scranton or after, because I
think Andy's departure to Anger Management was sort of like
the end of my agreed upon time. I can't quite
remember all that timeline, but I will say this, those
first few episodes in the Scranton office was like it's
(26:07):
like a little kid walking into Yankee Stadium. Like even
though the show wasn't huge, it was huge to me.
And I loved it, and I loved what everybody was doing,
and I just thought it was the funniest thing in
the world. And so to walk in onto that set
and actually have lines and have like fun stuff to do,
(26:28):
I just felt like I was in the major leagues
and uh in it, but not in an intimidating way,
in a like supported way, and um, you guys, everyone
was so cool right. It just was such a great
group of people. Yeah. Uh, it was just fun. Well
and and you know, now hearing more of the specifics
(26:51):
of your story. Early on, I mean, we were all
a group of actors that had had minimal to no
six sess in television and film at that point, from
varying degrees, like six months before I was doing theater
and just just starting right. And you know, Steve had
done obviously The Daily Show. But when even when Steve
(27:14):
was on, it was kind of before The Daily Show
was cool cool, it was it was the Bush administration
that really I think launched it. I mean, Graig Kilborne
was great and I was a fan from then, but
again that's just because I'm a comedy nerd. I think
in the zeitgeist, it really was George Bush that kind
of catapulted the Daily Show. Um, and so yeah, everybody
(27:36):
I think had the attitude that they had because no
one seemed bigger than anybody else. You know, there wasn't
the structure that exists where there's the star and there's
the kind of star and there. You know, like everybody
was kind of figuring it out. And as the show
started to pick up and we were all sort of
a part of that together. Yeah, I remember that that year,
(28:01):
so I got kind of officially brought into the cast
and was in the regular season after Anger Anger Management.
I was just there. I was like part of the show.
And the Emmys were around that time, and that year
the Daily Show and the Office one Emmys for Best Show,
(28:22):
and I was like, I'm doing something right. This is
going pretty good. But that was that was really fun.
That was and the Emmy's of course, was such a
fun thing for the cast and everybody just oh man,
those are those are great? The salad days, the salad days,
(28:44):
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(31:16):
the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you
get your podcast. How much do you think the character
of Andy is like you? Ed Well, I would say
(31:41):
that not very He's not very much like me, but
only because I'm I have better editing mechanisms for my
own behavior. But I think a lot of Andy's impulses
and instincts are you know, I relate to, Uh, He's
just not self aware enough to put a check on them.
(32:06):
There are things that I actually really envy about Andy
that I wish I was more like um and the
Angela storyline really I think brought that out that that
was a thing that made me I mean, I was
kind of loved Andy's douche baggery from a comedy standpoint,
it's just fun and ridiculous. But the Angela stuff, like
(32:32):
just seeing him really put his heart on his sleeve.
I felt, that's when I really fell in love with
this this character and I And that's something that I
I've always struggled with. Maybe it's part of just our
southern upbringing, but like expressing emotions in real ways and
being transparent and being you know, just chasing something that
(32:55):
you love and that means a lot to you. It's
that was that's it was hard for me. It was
hard for me to kind of mature in that way. Uh.
And Andy is just he's the best, Like that's the
he's he fell in love with Angela, and I was like,
this is it. I'm all in and I love you
(33:16):
and he and everybody knew it, and he was there
was no shame, there was no kind of reticence. And
I think I just always loved that about Andy. And
I think that his rage was a kind of the
flip side of that, like he just wasn't able to
kind of control the expression of his emotions. Uh, and
(33:40):
sometimes when he should have and it had beautiful consequences
in in some of his romantic relationships and then obviously
devastating consequences and in other ways. But I think that
that's what you know, Greg and the other writers and
you obviously in creating that Arcter and and everybody. But
(34:02):
you know, we talked a lot about I've talked a
lot about the more specific the characters are drawn, the
more universal they become. And so you think, oh, let's
paint in broad strokes, this is generally who this guy is, right,
And it's the white braided belts and the polo shirts,
(34:27):
and that's who that guy is. Okay, I get Andy,
That's that's who Andy is. But no, he had one
of the biggest hearts on the show and was able
to express that in a really specific, true, genuine way,
and that that dichotomy and complexity I feel like made
him really real and lovable. Yeah, I think you're you're
(34:49):
onto something specificity, which I think a lot of comedy
writers sometimes shy away from because the the the instinct
is like the more specific I draw a character, the
more people won't relate to that character. But it's the opposite,
Like to your point, it is the exact opposite, and
I think of like, I was just having this conversation
(35:11):
with a writer the other day about how John hughes
movies we're you know, on paper, John Hughes shot all
his movies in Glencoe, Illinois, which is one of the
most affluent suburbs in the country. I mean, all mansions,
all beautiful lawns, everything. You know, it shouldn't be relatable, right,
(35:32):
that should be that should be alienating to everybody, And
yet there's so much specificity in those characters. And that's
what people find themselves in that specificity because audiences say,
you know, I may not understand how a teenager can
drive a BMW, but I can understand how that character
(35:54):
is devastated by that breakup that they're having, or or
the fact that the way that they're acting out, or
the way that um this little passion that they have
is getting made fun of by their friends or whatever. It's.
It's those details allow more people to connect. Um. You
talked about your relationship with with Angela Um and how
(36:16):
that's how you began to fall in love with Andy Um.
Do you think that his well, the fact that he
was a cuckolt, like, did that begin to make him
more sympathetic to audiences as well. Yeah, for sure. Uh,
that was a pretty sly move, I think on the
(36:36):
on Greg's part, I'm trying to kind of tap back
into my my thoughts. At the time, it felt really
fun to unleash that part of Andy because so much
of what he did was antagonistic and sort of confrontational
(36:57):
or passive aggressive. And for him to have to be
putting positive energy out there, even though it was so
misplaced or so well it was misapplied to Angela, that
was so fun and it just it made It's part
of what I think positive energy makes someone like, makes
an audience like a character. Um, you don't get Angela
(37:21):
and then Aaron shows up talk a little bit about
that relationship because I didn't remember that you're love for
her or your initial fascination starts like the first day
she's there. It's like, oh, well, there's there's a new
one in the office. Let's go for her. You've got
(37:43):
no baggage with this person. We can write our own story.
Let's start from scratch. Here we go. Yeah, that's yeah,
that's great. Um. I think that in thinking about it,
that the Andy and Aaron storyline becomes you know, kind
of a parallel with what was happening what happened with
(38:05):
Jim and Pam earlier. It just had a slightly more
absurdist bent to it. There were still tender moments, there
was still that longing on both sides. Um. But I
think that I don't know, talk about that a little
bit if if you recall your approach to it, or
did the writers talk to you about where that relationship
(38:25):
was going to go from the beginning or No, I
don't think so. I don't think there was a uh
an arc spelled out early on. But you know, Aaron's
energy was just so funny and it felt right for
Andy in a way, both of them being very left
(38:45):
footed socially kind of made them perfect for each other,
but also like gave them lots of stumbling. You know,
it's like a pigeon toed person dancing with a bow
legged person, like does this it looks like an egg beater?
Like is this this is weird? Um? And I guess
some it just felt right and fun and then there
(39:11):
was a lot of um obviously, just a lot of
complication that I think emerged in ways that Andy and
Aaron sabotaged the relationships and their their own relationship in
different ways. Um. I loved that chapter. I don't I
(39:31):
don't remember exactly how it wound down, but I remember
being a little confused about sort of like how how
that storyline kind of got wrapped up. And I think
I remember not enjoying the shooting the episodes as much
where we were in conflict, you know, when there was
(39:53):
like real bad stuff happening between Andy and Aaron, it
wasn't as fun. It just but I mean, that's that's
just an actor complaining. Um, But I think there was
something so breezy and simple and natural about just kind
of goofing off with Aaron and finding that comedy was
(40:15):
very fun, and then later on tapping into darker parts
of these characters that, like I said, they sabotaged the
relationship in different ways. It felt a little harder to
make funny or harder to make silly, and um but yeah, um.
In the New York Times, Paul said about you and Andy,
(40:42):
he had so much in common with this character we
wanted to create. I can't remember when they started merging.
He has this undeniable likability when he's at his most awful,
you can't help but love the guy. I think that's
true about me or about Andy, Well, I do. I
that's a really flattering thing, and that's uh and it
(41:07):
speaks to what a sweet and wonderful person Paul is.
But I that is my greatest hope for the character
of Andy, that that he can be kind of wretched
but in a way that you can tell is in
spite of himself, and that he really does want to
be better. You know, That's the part I think I
(41:29):
connect with the most and feel like it's the most
I have the most in common with Andy is like
I I I stumble through the world socially and in
relationships and all of it. I think, like most of us,
I just I always I am frustrated at myself when
(41:49):
I screw it up, whatever it is, and whether it's
a simple social interaction or a big meaningful thing in
my life, whatever it is. I but I want to
be better. I just want to be better, and I
try to be better, and I still fail a lot. Um.
It's why I'm so grateful to everyone in my life
who loves me, because it's always stumbling through all of it.
(42:11):
But um, Andy at his core wants to be good,
He wants to be a good person. He wants to
say the right thing, and only occasionally does he nail
it right. There's times where Andy was not just beautiful
in his expressions of love, but sometimes really tender and
(42:33):
like a good listener. Right, And that's not something we
associate with Andy Bernard at all, but those are those
are moments where I think his better angels are really
intervening and kind of guiding him because but they're there
like his his desire to be better and his instincts
are constantly fighting his reactionary impulses. All right, we're gonna
(43:08):
stop there for now. Sorry. I know Ed is amazing
to listen to, and what I love is the love
that he has for Andy Bernard. You know, there were
a lot of people who didn't love Andy Bernard, but
Ed Helms loved Andy Bernard. And that is the sign
of a true artist and great actor. Lesson lesson one
(43:32):
from me, Never ever judge your characters. Just find a
way to fall in love with them. But we are
going to hear more from Ed h in an upcoming episode,
so stay tuned for that. Thank you to Ed for
joining me for part one. Although you'll you'll be back
for part two uh and thank you all for listening.
(43:53):
We will see you next week. The Office Deep Dive
is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside
our executive producer Langley. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer.
(44:14):
Our associate producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor
is Diego Tapia. My main man in the booth is
Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by
my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed
by seth O Landscape from Cavalry Audio, the studio that
(44:51):
brought you The Devil Within and The Shadow Girls comes
a new true crime podcast, The Pink Moon Murders. The
local sheriff of leaves there may be more than one killer.
They were afraid he's face it out in that area.
The family was targeted, most of them targeted while they
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twenty second, and you can follow The Pink Moon Murders
(45:12):
on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts. Hey Lee, the listeners take here.
Last season on Lethal Lit. You might remember I came
to Hollow Falls on a mission. Well, I'm finding out
that in this town, the dead don't keep their secrets
for long, and the bodies keep piling up. The second
(45:37):
season if Lethal Lit is available now on the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Hi. I'm Hillary Clinton and I'm so
excited to be back with a third season of You
and Me Both. When I started this podcast, we were
(45:58):
going through some tough times, and let's face it, we
still are. And here's what I know. We cannot get
through this alone. So please join me for more conversations
with people who will make you think, make you laugh,
and help us find a path forward. This season, I'll
be talking about the state of our democracy with experts
(46:18):
and with people organizing on the ground. We'll draw inspiration
from some amazing people like Olympic star Alison Felix and
Grammy Award winner Brandy Carlisle. And we'll get into the
hard stuff with writer Cheryl Strait and my dear friend
and colleague, Huma Aberdeen. So join us. Listen to You
(46:39):
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