September 29, 2021 • 53 mins
Debbie Pierce and Kim Ferry, key hairstylist and department head respectively, join Brian to discuss all things hair on The Office...They talk about hair chair therapy, their close relationship with actors, all the crazy Halloween wigs, and - of course - Kevin’s toupee.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Debbie Peers and I was key hairstylist on the Office.
I'm Kim Ferry and I was the department head for
the office. Hello everybody, You're gonna love this one. Uh.
First off, welcome to another installment of the Office Deep Dive.
(00:28):
I am your host, Brian Baumgartner. The studio is crowded today, people,
I am bringing you my conversation with the other half
of our hair and makeup crew, the hair department of
the Office. Now, if you haven't already, go listen to
my interview with the office is head makeup artist Laverne Karacuzzi,
(00:51):
because we make a few references to that conversation here.
But then be sure to come right back to hear
more fascinating behind the scenes stories from my very good
friends Debbie Pierce and Kim Ferry. Now, having Debbie and
Kim in the studio, it was like it was like
getting a warm hug. I mean, when you think about it,
(01:15):
I spent an entire decade of my life working with
the two of them, and they really are extraordinary people
to work with. They brought a brand new perspective to
the beauty of the office conversation, Like you won't believe
how long it took to make sure Meredith's bald cap
looked well bald, and and the thought that went into
(01:38):
Pam's hair evolution. I truly had no idea the care
and concern that these women gave not only to the show,
the plot, the crew, but but also to each other
in really difficult times of their lives. It's nothing short
of astounding. We were lucky to have them on set then,
(02:00):
and well we're so lucky to have them on the
podcast now. Now. Maybe that's enough tuting of their horns
for now. I think our conversation really speaks for itself.
So get ready to be blown away, like like the
hair dryer blown away anyway. The wonderful geniuses that made
(02:25):
up the hair department of the Office, Debbie Pierce and
Kim Ferry, Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and
Squeak on Bubble and Squeaker, cooking at every moment, lift
over from the nut before. What is? Oh my god,
(03:04):
it's so good to see. Oh my god, are you
I'm good. I'm good. Oh my gosh. Thank you guys
so much than it's fun to get together, man, look
at you. I love the shirt. Well done, very well done.
(03:26):
Um you today, this has been so great? Are you
kidding me? I saw Laverne yesterday, Yes, yes, Um. I
mean so many writers that are all now running their
own worlds. Mike Sure and Brent Forrester, Claire Scanlon and
Jenna Angela and Rain We've done so it's just so
(03:51):
fun to see everybody. I know. But it's it's amazing. Um.
I was out and I had my jacket on the
we got season five or six or something, and all
of a sudden, I was in a restaurant and this
girl said, oh, I love your jacket. I said, do
you watch the show? Oh? Yes, we love the Office.
(04:13):
It was a whole new generation, right, I mean anywhere
from thirteen to thirty five. I mean, it's it's a
whole new group of people. Why do you think that is?
I don't know. I think they just identified with the characters,
and uh, that is on Netflix now and it's reruns
and the series. So I just think they get a
(04:35):
character that they really like and and they identify with
them and it just has snowballed. It's it's amazing. Yeah.
I mean we have been talking about and part of
what I'm going back and looking at is. You know,
we were the top scripted show on NBC for a
long time, but the show now is bigger than it
(04:59):
was that through Netflix. I'm just like, what, I don't know,
what do you think? Just people identifying with the characters? Yeah,
I just you know season too, it hit its prime. Yeah,
that's when it really did. It did, and they just
wanted to see what was Steve gonna do next time?
And the whole cast of characters. Really, the whole cast
of characters, you never know what they're gonna do or
(05:21):
say no. Because we were just laughing before you came
in talking about Kim. When she called me about the show.
She said, Debbie, UM, you know I'm gonna do this
little show called The Office. You know, it's just about
five um actors, you know, a couple of girls and
uh so simple, you know, you know, can what you think?
(05:41):
Come and join me and let's do this. I said, okay, okay,
I'll call you tomorrow. So I didn't. I said, yeah, Kim,
I'd like to do that. I'd like to do that
with you. And then this little show blew up into
this mega It was that hit. Yeah, so you said
(06:03):
the show hit its prime in season two? Is that
because that's when you guys came on it is it
your responsible right? Exactly right? And you know we didn't
have any budget either. We were so do you remember
we were literally throwing like a can of hair sprayed
to each other across like over the actors. Do you
remember that we had no budget. We supplies and stuff
(06:26):
on my own, right, and then Kim would go to
set and I would be in the trailer, so I
had to do all the guest actors and everything body
that came back. So all of a sudden, we looked
at each other set, Uh, this is getting to be
bigger then we thought. So, you know, then after you know,
(06:46):
see what the season three or four that we were
able to get it really got another additional partition because
it was kind of our one. But remember we would
take breaks to we would sat down and we didn't
know if the show was going to come back and
see and they'd be like, okay, hey, we got another six,
let's just do these six right, great, Okay, we'll be
back great, and then it would sat down again, and
(07:06):
it was really confusing those first steps two season two. Yeah,
but it made it through. That must have been hard
from a crew perspective to to you know, like we
did that first six of season two, and then we
went away and we had no idea if we were
coming back or you know, and then and and that's
real tricky because people need to know where their money
(07:29):
is going to come from, of course, and so you
get scared that you lose your crew because you know,
you don't want people go to other the shows, you
know and stuff. But we were blessed. We were blessed.
We kept our crew pretty much together. I mean, there
were a few people that had to leave and stuff,
but we were blessed all the way to the end. Yeah,
(07:50):
what do you think was so we were going for
a very realistic look, moving away from what television was
at that time, if you think about friends and stuff
was did that present challenges or did that make it easier? Yeah? Yeah, no,
presented challenges, especially for me. Well you know, both of
(08:10):
us want to oh yeah, yeah, so we both worked.
It worked in salons, you know, prior to getting into
film television. But um, you know, when you see a
person and something looks array, you know, out of out
of whack and stuff, you immediately want to go over
there and do something. And also with the makeup. I'm
(08:30):
sure the verrant probably told you you want to at
least haven't had a little colitude a person and everything.
So yeah, it presents a challenge. And so it was
funny because remember we didn't the second season though you
were all having your own makeup and your own stuff.
They we weren't touching them. You're forgetting that because they
were getting their own touch ups at their own station
(08:52):
and they had there and we would be sitting waiting.
We would not go in that second season because that's
that was per Pulfi, per Greg Daniel. But that was
hard that, yeah, that you don't It was you guys
that were touching yourself up and we would see you
at the season three okay, season three we were able
(09:12):
to then actually go in and start doing touch ups
on you. But season two it was very I remember
going in different probably wasn't supposed to, but I did
not did not in season two it did, okay, I remember,
oh my gosh, yeah, and I um I remember Ken
(09:33):
Koppas was talking to me about he said that there
was and this was before you, but on the on
the pilot and moving forward as they were sort of
establishing the look, and Ken went to all of the
heads of department and said, anything that you would get
fired on on some other show are the things that
(09:54):
we want. So like, if a hair is out of place,
and if a lighting isn't quite right, if we don't
have a perfect frame shot on an actor, that's all good.
We want those little mistakes to make it, you know,
feel more real. Yeah, and that's kind of what you
were told to write, like the hair did not have
to match. Yeah. I mean originally I was offered the
(10:16):
first six episodes, but I was still working on another show,
so I couldn't do it. But I wish, I wish, Yeah,
I just I couldn't because when we came in second season,
everything changed. The whole look of the cast, yeah changed. Well,
Steve had he was the first severe on that first season,
(10:37):
and Kim softened him up. It looked great. Yeah, So
what was the direction. We've talked a lot about that about,
you know, feeling like if we were a show that's
going to go on for longer than a season or two. Yeah,
that Michael, we needed to find some redeeming values. And
then they started writing in short ways and his look changed. Well.
(10:57):
He also he had gone through you know, the Virgin
so he basically had lost a lot of weight too,
and looked a bit different than we did it first.
But I remember coming in and having a meeting with
him and in the trailer actually and just discussing with him.
You know, I watched the first six episodes when I
knew I was going to get the second season, and
I told him, I really you know, they wanted him
(11:20):
to look like Gordon Gecko. That was like his look. Technically,
that's what they designed it for. Its gray slick, but
it was too for me. It was too greasy and
too slick and and not flattering and severe. Right, So
I told him, like, I really want to make a
big change, and I want to discuss it with you.
And I did that pretty much with a lot of
the actors, just kind of asking them, you know, how
(11:41):
do you feel and what do you want and then
let's incorporate this and then I can pitch it to
Greg because he did have the final say over looks
and things, and he was really great though. I mean,
he would always listen to us and if we really
wanted to push one kind of look or one certain thing,
it was okay, and he would always come around, so
that was great. I really appreciated his thought. Yeah, so
(12:01):
doing that, trying to create that very sort of realistic look,
ultimately it is more difficult than sort of that high fashion.
I don't know. I don't know. It was easy, it
was casual. It was also looked like real people, so
they can be a little dishovel. I mean, it's almost
easier because you're not doing the high end glam stuff.
(12:21):
We're not putting on these you know, when I was
doing Pretty liars, like they have all this hair, you
have this makeup, you have this wardrobe. We didn't really
have that, so it wasn't except when we do special shows. Yeah,
when we did the Halloween episodes. Halloween episodes were always tricky,
but yeah, I loved it though. I did every single
week on that show entire time. Yeah, and I remember
(12:43):
even the Halloween episodes. If you think of other shows
that have Halloween episodes, the makeup, the hair, like, everything
should look perfect, right. But Greg, I remember there was
a discussion about him saying, well, but these are real
people who are dressing for their office, so it's not
gonna look perfect. He was very adamant about that these
(13:05):
aren't people that are going to spend huge amounts of money.
They just want to throw like a cheap He's like,
make sure it's a cheap, simple wig that someone would
buy office, you know, a basic store. It's not like
a whole thing. Although we got a little more into
that when you know, Rain and Creed and they started.
We started with the wigs, and it got a little
(13:25):
better as we went further. But in the beginning, yeah, definitely,
and I wanted to show and tells for him. I
would walk upstairs, I would present the whigs because he
would give me an idea of you know, I want,
you know, Mindy to have this, I want you know,
Rain to have this um and he would kind of
give me some ideas to go with and then I
would present it to him. So I would carry it
up and go to the writers. I try to make
(13:46):
sure not many writers were in there, so that it
was just kind of him and I wouldn't get too
many beings because it gets lost. But it was great
that the collaboration was fun and they were always open
to it, and it was fun to be in there
and watch them like laugh at this stuff and be like, Oh,
that's gonna be so great or it's gonna be so
good on them. It was fun. Do you feel there
was more collaboration on the office than other shows. Yes? Absolutely.
(14:08):
I think what I love about Greg is that he
even if he wanted to discuss it, like he would
listen and he would hear your side of it. It
wasn't in other shows where they're just like, no, we
want it like this. So, you know, he's such a
kind person. And he would kind of stroll into our
trailers sometimes and just wander around, which I love. And
we were doing right and I'd be like anything He's
(14:29):
like no, and he just like walked through, like need
a haircut or anything. Sure, great, he's aidelic Sometimes he
just you know, randomly come in. But yes, he's such
a good person. But he trusts the people that he hired,
and that's what I respect and that's what I really
appreciated about him. Yeah. He it's what do they say,
(14:49):
what's the He's smart enough to know what he doesn't know,
you know, like he you know, like and get the
people that do. Yes. Have you said that quote about
Steve even a way too? What was it? Okay? This
is a great speed of the leader is the speed
of the game. That my girlfriend gave me that quote, um,
(15:11):
meaning that the person that is upfront is who has
the you know, the authority and the wherewithal umbility responsibilities,
our leader. They're they're the leaders, and then the gang follows.
So whoever is upfront, they're going to look at that person.
That's what keeps us together, the leader. Yeah. Do you
(15:33):
think Steve was a good leader? Yeah, I do. Great leader,
a great leader. So, Debbie, when Steve left, I was
reminded a lot of people went around from different departments
and told stories about Steve. And three different people have
told me one story, which was the story that you told, Um,
(15:58):
it was about him. You were in a van. Yes, Uh,
Steve was quite a gentleman and Um at that time,
nobody really knew. But I was going through a situation
with my hip. I was in a lot of pain
and getting up and down on the van was very
(16:18):
hard for me, and so UM, Kim and all the games,
you know, they kind of knew, and so they would
let me sit in the front when we would go
on on location and stuff. So this one day, UM,
we were all gathering into the van, um Steve and
some of the actors, and I went to proceed to
go in the back and he looked at me. He goes, Debbie,
(16:40):
where are you going? I said, well, I'm letting you stay.
He said, you go and take that seat, and I just, um,
I just thought that was such a kind thing, because
here is he's the star of the show, and he
always did. He would stand there at that van. He
would hold the door and help us in the van.
(17:00):
You know, I said, some mama's raised a nice young man.
But that's how he was, right. Yeah, but he did
that with everybody, even you know what I mean, even
just like he would wait and some other people would
just go to their trailers, but he always stood there,
every single woman down, every single man. And yes, so
(17:24):
that meant so much to me. And it was funny
because we came back, I think it was towards the
end and um, he said, how are you doing, Debby?
I said, I'm doing fine. Since I've seen you got
a new hips bionic now and since then I've got
another new Hi. I am the bion. I was talking
(18:07):
into Laverne about what people don't realize is the hair
and makeup trailer is what is what is it is
the trick. It is the place where everybody comes. Um,
you can make a break a show in the makeup
and hair trail. I'm serious. You can make or break
a show well because the way the environment is created.
(18:30):
The way the environment is created because when actors come
in in the morning, that early in the morning, it
has to be calm and a safe place that they
know they can come in. They can you know, study
their lines, they can just relax and you as you work,
you get to know your actors. You get to know
when they're feeling okay and when they're not. You get
(18:53):
to know when you can talk to them and laugh
and joke, and you get to know when you need
to shut up and don't say nothing exactly walk way
and you need to walk away I mean, or you know,
just give them their space, right. Yeah. So I told
the producer that one time on another show. I said, Um,
you know you gotta know that it starts right in here.
(19:14):
We create an atmosphere and give them a place of
safe safety, a safe player and the kind place we
might play music that's soothing so that they can get
into character and give them the performance that you need.
You know, it's very interesting. I haven't really thought about
this before, but just hearing you talk, just go with
(19:36):
me for a second. Maybe this is bad, but when
you hear some of what you're saying, the thing that
is occurring to me is that you don't realize that
as an actor, you're being poked and prodded kind of
for twelve hours a day. Yeah, Like there's no in
in no other sort of business. Are there people up
(19:56):
in your business business? Right hours, it's like unzip your pants,
take off your pants, let's run this wire up your leg,
onto your chest, onto your skin. You know, someone's touching
your face and touching your hand, right, And there are
times where like you're trying to work on a scene,
you're trying to do something and it's just like poke poke,
(20:17):
poke poke, and so yeah, like the necessity to have
an environment, especially first time that we're just getting ready
like like sort of like stay away jackals. Let's you know,
let's at least start the day we have to do
these things, but let's try to create an environment that
doesn't create sort of high stress and high anxiety from
(20:40):
the very beginning. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well will you
try to feel your actors, and when you go you
might look up a Brian, do you need anything, and
you'll say no, and I'll say, okay, back off and
go to the next person, you know. So we try
to respect that because we know that that is a
thing where somebody's I'm gonna at you all the time.
(21:01):
Sometimes it's like okay, I need a break here, right. Yeah,
And especially I would say for continuity photos too. I
know we had that thing up there, you'd have to
stand there with all four sides, something that we have
to do. And I know it's got to be annoying
when you're we do, but we have to do our
job too, because this is the stuff we have to submit.
This is we have to turn in. This is going
(21:22):
to be a record, because sometimes it is the question
was that curl this way? Or was it that? And
then But basically, you guys were really really good. I
mean you were very patient. And I went to another
show and uh no, no, no, no, no no no.
Somebody told me Phillis was on another show, and um
(21:43):
she went in and the guy said, I need to
take your picture. Phillis got up there, she said, turn around.
The guy said, Dabby, she did all four sides was
trained well, real crazer. We foller today. It was hilarious.
(22:06):
Phillis just turned around. She didn't she didn't squawk about anything.
That's because we had to do that. Yeah. Well we
had such a large cast, a large and it just
get up bigger and bigger. This season, it just kept
up getting bigger and bigger and bigger. So so many
people to track and have to take care of. Yes, indeed,
(22:26):
we had to keep a book. Yeah, Laverne talked about
the battle plan. Yeah, that was important every day. That
is something that the eighties would make for us. And
we'd have basically a chart and it would have like
at the top of it it would be you know,
Kim and then who I do, and then Debbie and
who she does down the line, and then then there
(22:48):
was a makeup side as well, so we could really
know and understand who was going where at what time
because it was so many people getting through the work first,
and then when it was like everybody had to be
out on set, well that was you know, we had
everybody through, but we got him through. We did all
(23:09):
the time. All the time. We did. Who were the
actors that you principally took care of. Um. I did Steve, John, Jenna, Angela,
b J Mindy and make sure yeah he was yeah yeah.
And then you and I did Phyllis, I did you,
(23:31):
I did um Kate, Oscar and Leslie and then guest
started to split them up. I loved I bet you did.
Everybody loved address you're Everyone was like Debbie, you know
he was British, Debbie, his hair is fine. Why are
you still messing with his hair? Funny little more, Debbie,
(23:57):
get your hands, get your hair off. Indes hairby it's professional.
He's he was a nice guy. He was really a
nice guy. Um, but you took care of you both
worked on it. But kind of the biggest I think
(24:18):
I can't think of really anything bigger hair additions throughout
the series became Kevin's tupay. I almost brought that today. Yeah,
I thought about it because it's in my storage. You know,
I'm literally driving here I go. Yes, I should have gone,
and I would have like presented it to you so
you could pet it one more time. I'll bring it
(24:41):
back for you. Yes, monumental. Yeah, I have a oh.
I just posted a picture on my Instagram. Hold on.
But it's like the picture of you when I was
first trying it on, you remember, and Jenna and Oscar
came up and they're just like they were making fun
of you, and we were like they were heckling him,
but he was standing strong. He was strong that this
(25:05):
whole thing. Yes, I think it was supposed to be
just a gag for the wedding. Yes, it was a gig,
and then it came back. It came back. Um, so
you guys come in season two, we're struggling. We're struggling.
(25:27):
Then at the end of that season we get picked
up fairly early for a full third season and The
Office wins the Emmy for Best Comedy. Do you remember
those feelings or did you feel like, well, we've got
job security now, or you know, what was the what
was the feeling around there as we shifted from a
(25:47):
little engine that maybe do you remember? Um, I remember
this because this was when for the Emmy's all the
girls came in that day to the trailer and they
had cheese and crackers and we had champagne and it
was us doing them in our trailer where you know,
everyone else is going too high end, you know, salons
(26:07):
and they're probably getting everything done, but all the girls
wanted to be together and it was so sweet. It
was such a fun morning and it was just us
doing their hair and everyone was excited and they were
happy and it was getting and it was amazing. It
was amazing, and they were like eating and drinking. We
were doing champagne and we're like, wow, what if you
guys like you're gonna win, We're gonna win. It's gonna happen.
And then it did. And then that we saw the
(26:29):
pictures and it was just what a great moment. It
was like a victory for our little show that could
really Yeah, I totally forgot about that. All the ladies
came and the like literally in the trailer. In the trailer, Yeah,
yeah they did. That's really good. And then things went
(26:50):
well for a while, and then there was the strike. Yes,
what are your memories of that time? Well, it was
you know, everybody was like up in the air about
whether we're going to have jobs or not. And uh,
we we went down for what like well, yeah it did, um.
(27:12):
But the first remember the first day we didn't want
to cross because the writers were there literally the whole
cast um as we were standing and I remember b J.
You know, you had the fence right that we had,
and he was on the other side of it, and
I was like, I don't want to cross either. I'm
union where He's like it's okay. I'm like, it's not okay.
(27:33):
And I remember getting choked up, like I don't want
to do this to you. You guys are my family,
Like I don't want to pass. And he said no,
look they're telling you to cross. And so we sat
on the stage and just waited. We just waited because
there was nothing else we could do. I think about
six seven hours later, they said you can go home.
I remember we went. I think that I never got
(27:53):
in hair and makeup. I guess there were a couple
of talking heads that were shot that could be shot,
but it wasn't when there wasn't much no And I
remember being there as well because at a certain point
we weren't sure what was happening. Awkward, yeah, but you know,
as a mom of two young kids and I was
the person supporting my household, um, it was terrifying. But
(28:18):
I will never forget Greg Daniels and his wife writing
a check, remember that for a thousand dollars every thousand,
every family, every family. I was floor because that made
such a difference to my household. I went to the
(28:38):
mail that day, and uh, you know, people were sending
Christmas cards and stuff, and so I looked at the
cards and then I saw this card from Craig Daniels.
I'm going, oh, isn't that nice? And so I opened
up the card and I'm reading and then I see
this check And I didn't. I didn't really look at
(28:59):
it really key nearly at first, you know, and I said, oh,
how sweet. I thought it was a hundred dollars. I
looked and then I started Catholic zeros and I said,
oh my god, I'm telling you. I almost literally beat
on myself. I was like, I was like, oh my god,
I could not believe it. But I told that story
(29:21):
to quite a few of my friends who worked on
other shows, and they were like, are you kidding me?
I said no, they I said, the producer and the actors,
because you guys came after the strike was over, when
we came back, and you gave us like two thousand
dollars a piece to the whole crew. That was nunheard of.
(29:45):
That was simply unheard of. It was such a blessing
to all of us because many people had families like him,
and they needed to know they had some sucks sort
of security and what what they were gonna do. I mean,
because other shows were down also, so this was such
a blessing and because we were family. Yeah, at that point,
(30:05):
we absolutely true. That's absolutely true. Yeah, you felt it.
I mean, Greg, you know the caterers and what show
has the same caterers for nine years? Eventually someone's like,
we did, guys, we love it burn in a good way, right,
(30:30):
But I mean he he didn't ever want to change
it up. He had loyalty to everyone who was there.
Yeah he did, Yeah, he did. Those guys were so good.
We ate well. They us. They would even remember they
would put up on our like if you they knew
that you liked a certain things they made like a
name of my breed or something. True. That's true, that's true.
(30:53):
I still have pictures of those menus. That's true. That's right.
And and we had the best craft service at Peter
Peter got blessed, bless Yeah, you started talking about this
(31:23):
a little before, but just how hair changed over over
the course of the show, like specifically with Pam or
with Kelly. What were the decisions that were made. Were
you softening Pam or what happened? It depended on what
episode we were doing. Again, originally, in the beginning, they
(31:43):
were supposed to be very simple, very plain, you know,
regular day people. But as some people became producers of
the show, then they had an actual say more in
what I could do for them. So, um, you'll see
the evolution of Pam's hair for instance, where she was
very kind of messy and it was a scrunchy thing
(32:04):
and kind of pulled back right and she had that
clip in all the time, and then and then literally
in season two and I remember her talking about this
because I listened to her podcast, but she said, you know,
Kim was so happy for the first time ever she
was able to have all of her hair down, which
was true because we had had it, you know, in
a clip with the scrunchy and it was just and
(32:25):
she has this natural curl and we got to kind
of smooth it out and make it a little more
fun and a little more designed. And the same thing
with Angela. You know, originally her character was she's supposed
to be very severe, She's very uptight. She doesn't really
care as much. She just wants you know, she's all business.
So that was true in the first few but then
(32:48):
as that evolved as well, then she had her hair
in a ponytail and then sometimes she'd have it down
and I did the Angela braid on her, which was
really fun, and that little headband braid, and and so
she got to be a little softer, but also her
character was softening. So I think it kind of played
with how they you know, what their direction was, as
they're falling in love with different people, or their meeting
(33:09):
new people, or kind of that course of it just
going forward. But um, and the same thing with Steve
when I first met him and we changed his hair
immediately and he was really on board too, so that
kind of stayed and he kind of kept that same
look for him the whole time. But again there were
a lot of hair gags. There was gum and his hair.
I remember that day I had to peanut butter on
(33:29):
my hands for twelve hours and it was just insane. So,
you know, every gag had its thing, And even the
big thing with with Kate and having her head shaved,
that was four weeks of prep for me because I
had to plan you know, she needed to be bald,
so we needed a specialist and then he ended up,
you know, doing the ball cap for her. But I
(33:50):
had to build hair pieces for her, and we had
to do tests, and we had to do another test
and then a third test and then remember you guys
were like grabbing the hair, and you know, I had
to teacher, and I had to shave um. I had
to get a certain clipper, and then I had to
modify the clipper just so it wouldn't tear if she
was pushing it back because it was so thin. You
have to make sure it's not going to tear. Like
(34:11):
there was so many variables to that. It was four
weeks of prep just for that gag. But everybody thought
she actually shaved her head, which it was pretty great,
pretty great, and and and Kate, it's really healthy and
so much, so much to make that flat. It took
me forty five minutes to do the actual rap to
get her head underneath. And then yeah, it was a lot,
(34:32):
which was fun. Though I loved that stuff. I love
that Greg would challenge me and he was happy each time,
which was great. So, right, was there ever any discussion
about Pam's hair changing based on where she was with
her relationship with Jim. Yes, yes, absolutely about that, as
(34:53):
she was kind of they were kind of falling for
each other. She got a lot more saw after, so
we did. We got rid of all her natural curl
and we started doing like blow drives, and then we
started doing curls and waves and something very soft because
she was kind of falling in love with this person
and same thing for him, so it definitely changed for
her at that point. Right, Um, so did you leave
(35:18):
before the end? I sadly did a few days. Um,
because as the show was ending, right, Greg kept adding
and then he added another week, and then he added
another week. And what I had set up was that
I was going to be going to show Pretty Little
(35:39):
Liars actually, and I had gotten that job, but it
was literally like a month and a half away. So
I thought, well, fine, I'll take a little time off,
you know, and then I'll just top on this other show.
And then he like booked another week and I'm like, well,
and I even told production too, I you know, this
is getting nervous, because then it pushed again and I
was like, wow, this is really getting close, and I'm
(36:01):
a little nervous, but they're like, no, no, no, it's
never going to go over that. And then I remember
literally the Sunday night that we were wrapping or I wrapped,
we still had a couple more days. It's like three
more days or something. I think you did. I don't remember,
but um, I was devastated because I really wanted to
be there. That was my show. I lived that show
for ten years basically, you know, on and off, with
(36:22):
the seasons that we would go down a little bit. Yeah,
it was really hard for me to not be there
those last few days, and I know that it was
a whole thing with everyone there and everyone came back,
and I felt really left out. I'm not gonna lie.
It was sad. Oh yeah, yeah, because that was I mean,
I lived that show for so long and it was
all of my friends, and I wish I could have
been there. I know, Debbie took over and she ran it,
(36:44):
you know, those last few days, and I knew she
would do a great job. But it was really hard
because I then, you know, started Sunday night, I rapped,
I think it was like twelve thirty at night, and
then Monday morning, I went in at seven am to
load into the next trailer and worked you know that
week as a prep week, and then went right into
(37:04):
that show. So I didn't get a break. But I
really hate that I missed those last few days. But
they would sendny pictures and they were communicating, Yeah, it awesomething.
I mean to see a show that you've been with
all that many years and your baby, it was your baby. Yeah,
I mean we were there from the beginning and uh,
(37:27):
you know, people came, people went, but we were still
there and to see it all come to an end
that it was just kind of heart wrenching. It. Yeah,
my kids would come and visit and I had that
picnic table in the back, if you remember, because I
would just want to sit with them privately, and every
time all the actors and more, I'm like, no, no, no, no,
you don't you know, like they would come up, they
(37:47):
would pick up the kids, they would take them to
craft service and it was so sweet, Like it was
such a great I don't know if you'll ever have
another show like that. I really I don't know, do you.
I mean, it was such a different show than any
thing I've ever been on. Right, and I still am
in touch with Angelot. You know, I'm hopefully going to
go to their podcast and hang with them for a minute.
(38:08):
But you know, it was so nice to see Creed
in Vegas. And then I've I've seen Kate doing some
shows and I was still in touch and still there.
You know, Um, I did this crazy show for Hulu Housewives,
yeah and the kidding, and I went and uh, they
(38:32):
were telling me who was going to be on it,
and I saw Angela and so I said, well, you know,
we're not going to tell it until we had to
meet with the actors. And so when I walked in
her face just lit day and we hugged each other,
it was just wonderful. She said, I didn't know you
were going to be here. It was a good surprise,
(38:55):
and so we were able to you know, work everything out.
It was just you know, like a home week. It's great.
(39:17):
Oh my gosh. I um, yeah, it's just to me,
it's crazy like these I mean, ordinary is a nice
way to say it, but a lot of ordinary looking
people on this show, middle aged office workers. Even though
the characters are universal. The fact that so many kids
are into it now, my kids are into this show, now,
(39:41):
you know how weird. That is for me. They love
Effort has a Dunder Mifflin shirt, he has Dunder mid
Flynn pants, like he says, Oh my god, all my
friends and they love that show. Like you know, it
makes me kind of cool. Yes, you are how old?
He's fifteen and he's that's were now Connor just passed me.
(40:04):
It's not baby. They were yeah, they were tiny. Do
they remember anything about being there? They remember craft service? Okay, right,
well that makes sense. Yeah, that's where they can get
All my friends. Teenagers and young adults are into it,
all of them. Yeah. Yeah, And you're like you said,
(40:26):
if you wear anything that has like my jacket or
I have my chat onto something, people walk out there
like right on. You know, yeah, they stopped you and stuff.
I remember we did the thing out and uh we
were at the country club somewhere West l As. It
was a golf thing, okay, yes, remember remember yes, yes,
And so we were going back and forth and they
(40:48):
were huge crowds of young people, teenagers that were like
so excited about the show. Yeah yeah, even then young
It appeals to ye the parents though, and yeah, I
think it appears that it appeals I'm telling you from
thirteen on up? Is your thirteen year old into it
(41:10):
or more than sixteen? Um, he was watching it for
a while, but then he's kind of switched into his
mother stuff, so he goes back to it. But yeah,
EVERT was excited that he um, yeah, that he has
stuff from the show, and yeah, it's kind of cool. Yeah. Six. Four,
I know. Four. Let me let me ask you one
more question. What five? Why would you choose to work
(41:36):
in film and television as opposed to like a salon? Okay,
I can tell you what it is for me. Um,
As a little girl, I used to watch television and
old movies. I loved old movies, you know, Clark Gable,
Myrna Lloyd, whoever, Gary Cooper, Sydney Port Geane, Kelly, Freda Stair, Oh,
(42:02):
my god, Rosny Russell. So it was just a dream
of mine, and I guess I as I grew up,
and I just started realizing what God gave me as
a gift, which was was doing here. I did. My
mother would give me dollars every year and m by
the time they ended, she get up Christmas, by the
(42:23):
time June came, they were balled here because I curled
him and twisted them. And so I guess when I
came out here, it was a goal of mine to
get into film and television. That wasn't an easy thing,
but um, I just kept pursuing and um, but it
(42:44):
wasn't my timing, it was God's timing. And uh, one
day he opened up a door for me and I
went through and oh my god, it's just been wonderful.
But I wanted to work, and so and I worked
in the salon. I had a very sccessful career in
the salon. When I got ready to leave, my clients
were like, what you leave in me? You know? I
(43:07):
knew a platform artists to write a platform artists. Yeah,
I work for Revalon for many years and so I
had different phases of the beauty industry. But this was
and is my favorite. Yeah. I I've been um blessed
to work on some really great shows, meet some really
(43:29):
good people. This one here, now, I just gotta say
how much I love and care about her. Um. Oh,
I know what you're gonna say when we started this show,
and you're gonna excuse me we started the show. Um,
I was diagnosed with breast cancer and I told Kimmy
(43:53):
I said, Kim, I know that you know you you
need to have some money that's going to be around
and help you and do and all. And um, you
know I'm gonna have to go and take care of this.
And I appreciate you let me work with you so far,
but I know you're gonna need to get somebody else.
And she said to me, Debbie Pierce, I will not
(44:17):
let you go. That's because you're gonna need those hours
and you're going to need that to get through this.
So I will cover your shift every night, and you
will go to therapy and you will take care of
yourself so you survive this. And I will do anything
you need. And she did. She brought in some people
temporarily to help. And then I, um, I went all
(44:40):
you guys, all guys, she wouldn't let me quit. Um.
I went UH through treatment for two and a half months.
I left every day after after touch ups at two
and I went to UH Daniel Freeman which is no
more at in l A meeting Inglewood, and I took
(45:00):
my treatment. I had my surgery and took my treatment
and I came back to work. And you guys, you
know we're so kind and loving to me, and I
appreciate that so much to this day. I I just
love this one. Yeah, and you're still here kicking at girls.
(45:23):
Yeah we did the right thing. Yeah we did well.
How does it feel knowing you were a little girl
watching Clark Gable and fred As Stare and you grew
up and became an important part of television history yourself? Brian,
(45:48):
I can't tell you, um, what a feeling that is. Um.
The last two years eighteen and nineteen, I worked on
a couple of projects that were nominated for Emmies, and
I got nominated um along with those projects, and I
(46:10):
I was just floored because here's this little black girl
from Younger's New York who watched all those people on
the movies and television and everything, and now I have
an opportunity two be in that arena and do the work.
(46:31):
I was honored. I was thrilled. I was humbled. I
was thanking my God that I was able to I
have this opportunity to do what I love to do.
It was amazing. It was amazing. So I I'm and
I'm still in awe. You know. I worked on a
(46:53):
thing that a couple of weeks ago they were doing
a thing called Perry Amazing. Oh yeah, they're doing a
Pary Amazing, which is a period they're doing it when
he was a young lawyer. Yeah, it was very cool
they did it. We did the thirties and all. So
that was wonderful for me. And that was the great
thing about um, you know, having opportunities to go back
(47:16):
and do periods that you grew up seeing. It's just
fun here to do, you know. And even when we
did stuff on the show, doing different wigs and stuff
to uh, you know whatever characters, and we did Farrell, Um,
Will Farrell, we had we did Will Ferrell and uh
(47:37):
you remember Fredis Stair but not Will Ferrell. Sorry, Will
no lovely man. It's such a lovely man. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
we did. We did uh we did some fun things
Phyllis's wedding. Yeah, what are you What are you most
(47:57):
proud of? Honestly, I would say the Office, I really would.
It was such a great show. It was It seemed
in the beginning we had so many challenges and it
just wasn't going to go, but we stuck with it
and then it just like slowly got this falling And
actually I remember, um and I've said this to other people.
(48:19):
Remember when you guys had my Space where before Facebook,
they all went out and I remember, like Jenna and Johnny,
like all of you, We're going and saying, you know,
we want to be on Carson and we want to
go on these shows. And you put yourself out there.
And I feel sincerely that that's what saved the show
because you were, you know, in a in a time
where we didn't have I mean, social media how it
(48:40):
is today is crazy, but back then you were physically
going to shows, you were going on my Space. You
understood that we could reach more people, and I think
that helped float it and then it turned it. Yeah,
I mean we were definitely so we were struggling so
much and we all felt like it could end at
any moment. Yeah, there was a very active campaign by
(49:04):
the actors to say, like, let's see if we can
keep this going a little bit longer, just because we
felt like it was. It was, it was a good
show and it was worth it. You put in the work,
You actually put in the work, and that's what turned
everything around. Yeah, it did, it really did. And I think, yes,
like I said, season two, I think it found it
(49:25):
the footing of it and it kind of excelled, and
it just it took on a life of its own,
and I think that's really what held it together. And
I knew they within a few weeks were like, yeah,
I really did. And it just went forever, which was awesome.
So it was nice to have that long of a
run and through the whole process to what was cool
is that people are getting married, people are buying cars
(49:47):
for the first time, people are buying house and you know,
so it kind of it was such a cool thing
to see everybody, you know, moving into different stages of
what of life. Yeah yeah, I mean whole thirties was
spent there. Oh wow, yes, I mean that's that's a decade.
(50:08):
It was a decade of our lives. Yeah, yeah, it was.
That's why it's so sentimental and it's so it meant
so much, such a great show. Yeah. Well, um, thank
you guys so much for coming to talk to me
so much. It's so good to see. It's so good
to see you. I will get your hairpiece to you
(50:29):
and we'll just try it on someday. You know. I
just wore a really really bad one for the first
time since then, like a really bad yes, I mean
it was sort of intentionally it was. It was a
movie that took place in the eighties, and it had
kind of a what is it Jimmy swagger, like jim
(50:53):
Baker Baker kind of. They showed me a picture of
the idea which was like kind us Sam Donaldson with
that like strong, strong with the hair. Yeah, so it
wasn't necessarily supposed to look good. I don't know. I
haven't seen the dailies. We'll see if it if that works,
(51:16):
if it works like somewhat believably because there's yeah, but yeah,
it comes off later in the movie. Yeah. Um, thanks
you guys. Oh my god, the three of us, can
we get a photo of me? And Oh my gosh,
(51:38):
good to see you. Oh how much fun did I have?
Debbie and Kim. Thank you so much for joining me.
(52:00):
I really enjoyed talking to you. And let me just say,
I am so glad that you decided to join the
TV biz and leave your beauty salons. I don't know
what we would have done without you and listeners. I
don't know what we would do without you, so thank
you so much for listening. You know, if a tree
falls in the woods and no one listens. Did we
(52:24):
make this podcast? I don't know, but I hope you
have a magnificent week and I am going to see
you next time for another episode of the Office Deep Dive.
The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by
(52:46):
me Brian baum Gartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our
senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers are Diego Tapia
and Liz Hayes. My main man in the booth is
Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by
my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed
by Seth Olandsky.
I'm Debbie Peers and I was key hairstylist on the Office.
I'm Kim Ferry and I was the department head for
the office. Hello everybody, You're gonna love this one. Uh.
First off, welcome to another installment of the Office Deep Dive.
(00:28):
I am your host, Brian Baumgartner. The studio is crowded today, people,
I am bringing you my conversation with the other half
of our hair and makeup crew, the hair department of
the Office. Now, if you haven't already, go listen to
my interview with the office is head makeup artist Laverne Karacuzzi,
(00:51):
because we make a few references to that conversation here.
But then be sure to come right back to hear
more fascinating behind the scenes stories from my very good
friends Debbie Pierce and Kim Ferry. Now, having Debbie and
Kim in the studio, it was like it was like
getting a warm hug. I mean, when you think about it,
(01:15):
I spent an entire decade of my life working with
the two of them, and they really are extraordinary people
to work with. They brought a brand new perspective to
the beauty of the office conversation, Like you won't believe
how long it took to make sure Meredith's bald cap
looked well bald, and and the thought that went into
(01:38):
Pam's hair evolution. I truly had no idea the care
and concern that these women gave not only to the show,
the plot, the crew, but but also to each other
in really difficult times of their lives. It's nothing short
of astounding. We were lucky to have them on set then,
(02:00):
and well we're so lucky to have them on the
podcast now. Now. Maybe that's enough tuting of their horns
for now. I think our conversation really speaks for itself.
So get ready to be blown away, like like the
hair dryer blown away anyway. The wonderful geniuses that made
(02:25):
up the hair department of the Office, Debbie Pierce and
Kim Ferry, Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and
Squeak on Bubble and Squeaker, cooking at every moment, lift
over from the nut before. What is? Oh my god,
(03:04):
it's so good to see. Oh my god, are you
I'm good. I'm good. Oh my gosh. Thank you guys
so much than it's fun to get together, man, look
at you. I love the shirt. Well done, very well done.
(03:26):
Um you today, this has been so great? Are you
kidding me? I saw Laverne yesterday, Yes, yes, Um. I
mean so many writers that are all now running their
own worlds. Mike Sure and Brent Forrester, Claire Scanlon and
Jenna Angela and Rain We've done so it's just so
(03:51):
fun to see everybody. I know. But it's it's amazing. Um.
I was out and I had my jacket on the
we got season five or six or something, and all
of a sudden, I was in a restaurant and this
girl said, oh, I love your jacket. I said, do
you watch the show? Oh? Yes, we love the Office.
(04:13):
It was a whole new generation, right, I mean anywhere
from thirteen to thirty five. I mean, it's it's a
whole new group of people. Why do you think that is?
I don't know. I think they just identified with the characters,
and uh, that is on Netflix now and it's reruns
and the series. So I just think they get a
(04:35):
character that they really like and and they identify with
them and it just has snowballed. It's it's amazing. Yeah.
I mean we have been talking about and part of
what I'm going back and looking at is. You know,
we were the top scripted show on NBC for a
long time, but the show now is bigger than it
(04:59):
was that through Netflix. I'm just like, what, I don't know,
what do you think? Just people identifying with the characters? Yeah,
I just you know season too, it hit its prime. Yeah,
that's when it really did. It did, and they just
wanted to see what was Steve gonna do next time?
And the whole cast of characters. Really, the whole cast
of characters, you never know what they're gonna do or
(05:21):
say no. Because we were just laughing before you came
in talking about Kim. When she called me about the show.
She said, Debbie, UM, you know I'm gonna do this
little show called The Office. You know, it's just about
five um actors, you know, a couple of girls and
uh so simple, you know, you know, can what you think?
(05:41):
Come and join me and let's do this. I said, okay, okay,
I'll call you tomorrow. So I didn't. I said, yeah, Kim,
I'd like to do that. I'd like to do that
with you. And then this little show blew up into
this mega It was that hit. Yeah, so you said
(06:03):
the show hit its prime in season two? Is that
because that's when you guys came on it is it
your responsible right? Exactly right? And you know we didn't
have any budget either. We were so do you remember
we were literally throwing like a can of hair sprayed
to each other across like over the actors. Do you
remember that we had no budget. We supplies and stuff
(06:26):
on my own, right, and then Kim would go to
set and I would be in the trailer, so I
had to do all the guest actors and everything body
that came back. So all of a sudden, we looked
at each other set, Uh, this is getting to be
bigger then we thought. So, you know, then after you know,
(06:46):
see what the season three or four that we were
able to get it really got another additional partition because
it was kind of our one. But remember we would
take breaks to we would sat down and we didn't
know if the show was going to come back and
see and they'd be like, okay, hey, we got another six,
let's just do these six right, great, Okay, we'll be
back great, and then it would sat down again, and
(07:06):
it was really confusing those first steps two season two. Yeah,
but it made it through. That must have been hard
from a crew perspective to to you know, like we
did that first six of season two, and then we
went away and we had no idea if we were
coming back or you know, and then and and that's
real tricky because people need to know where their money
(07:29):
is going to come from, of course, and so you
get scared that you lose your crew because you know,
you don't want people go to other the shows, you
know and stuff. But we were blessed. We were blessed.
We kept our crew pretty much together. I mean, there
were a few people that had to leave and stuff,
but we were blessed all the way to the end. Yeah,
(07:50):
what do you think was so we were going for
a very realistic look, moving away from what television was
at that time, if you think about friends and stuff
was did that present challenges or did that make it easier? Yeah? Yeah, no,
presented challenges, especially for me. Well you know, both of
(08:10):
us want to oh yeah, yeah, so we both worked.
It worked in salons, you know, prior to getting into
film television. But um, you know, when you see a
person and something looks array, you know, out of out
of whack and stuff, you immediately want to go over
there and do something. And also with the makeup. I'm
(08:30):
sure the verrant probably told you you want to at
least haven't had a little colitude a person and everything.
So yeah, it presents a challenge. And so it was
funny because remember we didn't the second season though you
were all having your own makeup and your own stuff.
They we weren't touching them. You're forgetting that because they
were getting their own touch ups at their own station
(08:52):
and they had there and we would be sitting waiting.
We would not go in that second season because that's
that was per Pulfi, per Greg Daniel. But that was
hard that, yeah, that you don't It was you guys
that were touching yourself up and we would see you
at the season three okay, season three we were able
(09:12):
to then actually go in and start doing touch ups
on you. But season two it was very I remember
going in different probably wasn't supposed to, but I did
not did not in season two it did, okay, I remember,
oh my gosh, yeah, and I um I remember Ken
(09:33):
Koppas was talking to me about he said that there
was and this was before you, but on the on
the pilot and moving forward as they were sort of
establishing the look, and Ken went to all of the
heads of department and said, anything that you would get
fired on on some other show are the things that
(09:54):
we want. So like, if a hair is out of place,
and if a lighting isn't quite right, if we don't
have a perfect frame shot on an actor, that's all good.
We want those little mistakes to make it, you know,
feel more real. Yeah, and that's kind of what you
were told to write, like the hair did not have
to match. Yeah. I mean originally I was offered the
(10:16):
first six episodes, but I was still working on another show,
so I couldn't do it. But I wish, I wish, Yeah,
I just I couldn't because when we came in second season,
everything changed. The whole look of the cast, yeah changed. Well,
Steve had he was the first severe on that first season,
(10:37):
and Kim softened him up. It looked great. Yeah, So
what was the direction. We've talked a lot about that about,
you know, feeling like if we were a show that's
going to go on for longer than a season or two. Yeah,
that Michael, we needed to find some redeeming values. And
then they started writing in short ways and his look changed. Well.
(10:57):
He also he had gone through you know, the Virgin
so he basically had lost a lot of weight too,
and looked a bit different than we did it first.
But I remember coming in and having a meeting with
him and in the trailer actually and just discussing with him.
You know, I watched the first six episodes when I
knew I was going to get the second season, and
I told him, I really you know, they wanted him
(11:20):
to look like Gordon Gecko. That was like his look. Technically,
that's what they designed it for. Its gray slick, but
it was too for me. It was too greasy and
too slick and and not flattering and severe. Right, So
I told him, like, I really want to make a
big change, and I want to discuss it with you.
And I did that pretty much with a lot of
the actors, just kind of asking them, you know, how
(11:41):
do you feel and what do you want and then
let's incorporate this and then I can pitch it to
Greg because he did have the final say over looks
and things, and he was really great though. I mean,
he would always listen to us and if we really
wanted to push one kind of look or one certain thing,
it was okay, and he would always come around, so
that was great. I really appreciated his thought. Yeah, so
(12:01):
doing that, trying to create that very sort of realistic look,
ultimately it is more difficult than sort of that high fashion.
I don't know. I don't know. It was easy, it
was casual. It was also looked like real people, so
they can be a little dishovel. I mean, it's almost
easier because you're not doing the high end glam stuff.
(12:21):
We're not putting on these you know, when I was
doing Pretty liars, like they have all this hair, you
have this makeup, you have this wardrobe. We didn't really
have that, so it wasn't except when we do special shows. Yeah,
when we did the Halloween episodes. Halloween episodes were always tricky,
but yeah, I loved it though. I did every single
week on that show entire time. Yeah, and I remember
(12:43):
even the Halloween episodes. If you think of other shows
that have Halloween episodes, the makeup, the hair, like, everything
should look perfect, right. But Greg, I remember there was
a discussion about him saying, well, but these are real
people who are dressing for their office, so it's not
gonna look perfect. He was very adamant about that these
(13:05):
aren't people that are going to spend huge amounts of money.
They just want to throw like a cheap He's like,
make sure it's a cheap, simple wig that someone would
buy office, you know, a basic store. It's not like
a whole thing. Although we got a little more into
that when you know, Rain and Creed and they started.
We started with the wigs, and it got a little
(13:25):
better as we went further. But in the beginning, yeah, definitely,
and I wanted to show and tells for him. I
would walk upstairs, I would present the whigs because he
would give me an idea of you know, I want,
you know, Mindy to have this, I want you know,
Rain to have this um and he would kind of
give me some ideas to go with and then I
would present it to him. So I would carry it
up and go to the writers. I try to make
(13:46):
sure not many writers were in there, so that it
was just kind of him and I wouldn't get too
many beings because it gets lost. But it was great
that the collaboration was fun and they were always open
to it, and it was fun to be in there
and watch them like laugh at this stuff and be like, Oh,
that's gonna be so great or it's gonna be so
good on them. It was fun. Do you feel there
was more collaboration on the office than other shows. Yes? Absolutely.
(14:08):
I think what I love about Greg is that he
even if he wanted to discuss it, like he would
listen and he would hear your side of it. It
wasn't in other shows where they're just like, no, we
want it like this. So, you know, he's such a
kind person. And he would kind of stroll into our
trailers sometimes and just wander around, which I love. And
we were doing right and I'd be like anything He's
(14:29):
like no, and he just like walked through, like need
a haircut or anything. Sure, great, he's aidelic Sometimes he
just you know, randomly come in. But yes, he's such
a good person. But he trusts the people that he hired,
and that's what I respect and that's what I really
appreciated about him. Yeah. He it's what do they say,
(14:49):
what's the He's smart enough to know what he doesn't know,
you know, like he you know, like and get the
people that do. Yes. Have you said that quote about
Steve even a way too? What was it? Okay? This
is a great speed of the leader is the speed
of the game. That my girlfriend gave me that quote, um,
(15:11):
meaning that the person that is upfront is who has
the you know, the authority and the wherewithal umbility responsibilities,
our leader. They're they're the leaders, and then the gang follows.
So whoever is upfront, they're going to look at that person.
That's what keeps us together, the leader. Yeah. Do you
(15:33):
think Steve was a good leader? Yeah, I do. Great leader,
a great leader. So, Debbie, when Steve left, I was
reminded a lot of people went around from different departments
and told stories about Steve. And three different people have
told me one story, which was the story that you told, Um,
(15:58):
it was about him. You were in a van. Yes, Uh,
Steve was quite a gentleman and Um at that time,
nobody really knew. But I was going through a situation
with my hip. I was in a lot of pain
and getting up and down on the van was very
(16:18):
hard for me, and so UM, Kim and all the games,
you know, they kind of knew, and so they would
let me sit in the front when we would go
on on location and stuff. So this one day, UM,
we were all gathering into the van, um Steve and
some of the actors, and I went to proceed to
go in the back and he looked at me. He goes, Debbie,
(16:40):
where are you going? I said, well, I'm letting you stay.
He said, you go and take that seat, and I just, um,
I just thought that was such a kind thing, because
here is he's the star of the show, and he
always did. He would stand there at that van. He
would hold the door and help us in the van.
(17:00):
You know, I said, some mama's raised a nice young man.
But that's how he was, right. Yeah, but he did
that with everybody, even you know what I mean, even
just like he would wait and some other people would
just go to their trailers, but he always stood there,
every single woman down, every single man. And yes, so
(17:24):
that meant so much to me. And it was funny
because we came back, I think it was towards the
end and um, he said, how are you doing, Debby?
I said, I'm doing fine. Since I've seen you got
a new hips bionic now and since then I've got
another new Hi. I am the bion. I was talking
(18:07):
into Laverne about what people don't realize is the hair
and makeup trailer is what is what is it is
the trick. It is the place where everybody comes. Um,
you can make a break a show in the makeup
and hair trail. I'm serious. You can make or break
a show well because the way the environment is created.
(18:30):
The way the environment is created because when actors come
in in the morning, that early in the morning, it
has to be calm and a safe place that they
know they can come in. They can you know, study
their lines, they can just relax and you as you work,
you get to know your actors. You get to know
when they're feeling okay and when they're not. You get
(18:53):
to know when you can talk to them and laugh
and joke, and you get to know when you need
to shut up and don't say nothing exactly walk way
and you need to walk away I mean, or you know,
just give them their space, right. Yeah. So I told
the producer that one time on another show. I said, Um,
you know you gotta know that it starts right in here.
(19:14):
We create an atmosphere and give them a place of
safe safety, a safe player and the kind place we
might play music that's soothing so that they can get
into character and give them the performance that you need.
You know, it's very interesting. I haven't really thought about
this before, but just hearing you talk, just go with
(19:36):
me for a second. Maybe this is bad, but when
you hear some of what you're saying, the thing that
is occurring to me is that you don't realize that
as an actor, you're being poked and prodded kind of
for twelve hours a day. Yeah, Like there's no in
in no other sort of business. Are there people up
(19:56):
in your business business? Right hours, it's like unzip your pants,
take off your pants, let's run this wire up your leg,
onto your chest, onto your skin. You know, someone's touching
your face and touching your hand, right, And there are
times where like you're trying to work on a scene,
you're trying to do something and it's just like poke poke,
(20:17):
poke poke, and so yeah, like the necessity to have
an environment, especially first time that we're just getting ready
like like sort of like stay away jackals. Let's you know,
let's at least start the day we have to do
these things, but let's try to create an environment that
doesn't create sort of high stress and high anxiety from
(20:40):
the very beginning. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well will you
try to feel your actors, and when you go you
might look up a Brian, do you need anything, and
you'll say no, and I'll say, okay, back off and
go to the next person, you know. So we try
to respect that because we know that that is a
thing where somebody's I'm gonna at you all the time.
(21:01):
Sometimes it's like okay, I need a break here, right. Yeah,
And especially I would say for continuity photos too. I
know we had that thing up there, you'd have to
stand there with all four sides, something that we have
to do. And I know it's got to be annoying
when you're we do, but we have to do our
job too, because this is the stuff we have to submit.
This is we have to turn in. This is going
(21:22):
to be a record, because sometimes it is the question
was that curl this way? Or was it that? And
then But basically, you guys were really really good. I
mean you were very patient. And I went to another
show and uh no, no, no, no, no no no.
Somebody told me Phillis was on another show, and um
(21:43):
she went in and the guy said, I need to
take your picture. Phillis got up there, she said, turn around.
The guy said, Dabby, she did all four sides was
trained well, real crazer. We foller today. It was hilarious.
(22:06):
Phillis just turned around. She didn't she didn't squawk about anything.
That's because we had to do that. Yeah. Well we
had such a large cast, a large and it just
get up bigger and bigger. This season, it just kept
up getting bigger and bigger and bigger. So so many
people to track and have to take care of. Yes, indeed,
(22:26):
we had to keep a book. Yeah, Laverne talked about
the battle plan. Yeah, that was important every day. That
is something that the eighties would make for us. And
we'd have basically a chart and it would have like
at the top of it it would be you know,
Kim and then who I do, and then Debbie and
who she does down the line, and then then there
(22:48):
was a makeup side as well, so we could really
know and understand who was going where at what time
because it was so many people getting through the work first,
and then when it was like everybody had to be
out on set, well that was you know, we had
everybody through, but we got him through. We did all
(23:09):
the time. All the time. We did. Who were the
actors that you principally took care of. Um. I did Steve, John, Jenna, Angela,
b J Mindy and make sure yeah he was yeah yeah.
And then you and I did Phyllis, I did you,
(23:31):
I did um Kate, Oscar and Leslie and then guest
started to split them up. I loved I bet you did.
Everybody loved address you're Everyone was like Debbie, you know
he was British, Debbie, his hair is fine. Why are
you still messing with his hair? Funny little more, Debbie,
(23:57):
get your hands, get your hair off. Indes hairby it's professional.
He's he was a nice guy. He was really a
nice guy. Um, but you took care of you both
worked on it. But kind of the biggest I think
(24:18):
I can't think of really anything bigger hair additions throughout
the series became Kevin's tupay. I almost brought that today. Yeah,
I thought about it because it's in my storage. You know,
I'm literally driving here I go. Yes, I should have gone,
and I would have like presented it to you so
you could pet it one more time. I'll bring it
(24:41):
back for you. Yes, monumental. Yeah, I have a oh.
I just posted a picture on my Instagram. Hold on.
But it's like the picture of you when I was
first trying it on, you remember, and Jenna and Oscar
came up and they're just like they were making fun
of you, and we were like they were heckling him,
but he was standing strong. He was strong that this
(25:05):
whole thing. Yes, I think it was supposed to be
just a gag for the wedding. Yes, it was a gig,
and then it came back. It came back. Um, so
you guys come in season two, we're struggling. We're struggling.
(25:27):
Then at the end of that season we get picked
up fairly early for a full third season and The
Office wins the Emmy for Best Comedy. Do you remember
those feelings or did you feel like, well, we've got
job security now, or you know, what was the what
was the feeling around there as we shifted from a
(25:47):
little engine that maybe do you remember? Um, I remember
this because this was when for the Emmy's all the
girls came in that day to the trailer and they
had cheese and crackers and we had champagne and it
was us doing them in our trailer where you know,
everyone else is going too high end, you know, salons
(26:07):
and they're probably getting everything done, but all the girls
wanted to be together and it was so sweet. It
was such a fun morning and it was just us
doing their hair and everyone was excited and they were
happy and it was getting and it was amazing. It
was amazing, and they were like eating and drinking. We
were doing champagne and we're like, wow, what if you
guys like you're gonna win, We're gonna win. It's gonna happen.
And then it did. And then that we saw the
(26:29):
pictures and it was just what a great moment. It
was like a victory for our little show that could
really Yeah, I totally forgot about that. All the ladies
came and the like literally in the trailer. In the trailer, Yeah,
yeah they did. That's really good. And then things went
(26:50):
well for a while, and then there was the strike. Yes,
what are your memories of that time? Well, it was
you know, everybody was like up in the air about
whether we're going to have jobs or not. And uh,
we we went down for what like well, yeah it did, um.
(27:12):
But the first remember the first day we didn't want
to cross because the writers were there literally the whole
cast um as we were standing and I remember b J.
You know, you had the fence right that we had,
and he was on the other side of it, and
I was like, I don't want to cross either. I'm
union where He's like it's okay. I'm like, it's not okay.
(27:33):
And I remember getting choked up, like I don't want
to do this to you. You guys are my family,
Like I don't want to pass. And he said no,
look they're telling you to cross. And so we sat
on the stage and just waited. We just waited because
there was nothing else we could do. I think about
six seven hours later, they said you can go home.
I remember we went. I think that I never got
(27:53):
in hair and makeup. I guess there were a couple
of talking heads that were shot that could be shot,
but it wasn't when there wasn't much no And I
remember being there as well because at a certain point
we weren't sure what was happening. Awkward, yeah, but you know,
as a mom of two young kids and I was
the person supporting my household, um, it was terrifying. But
(28:18):
I will never forget Greg Daniels and his wife writing
a check, remember that for a thousand dollars every thousand,
every family, every family. I was floor because that made
such a difference to my household. I went to the
(28:38):
mail that day, and uh, you know, people were sending
Christmas cards and stuff, and so I looked at the
cards and then I saw this card from Craig Daniels.
I'm going, oh, isn't that nice? And so I opened
up the card and I'm reading and then I see
this check And I didn't. I didn't really look at
(28:59):
it really key nearly at first, you know, and I said, oh,
how sweet. I thought it was a hundred dollars. I
looked and then I started Catholic zeros and I said,
oh my god, I'm telling you. I almost literally beat
on myself. I was like, I was like, oh my god,
I could not believe it. But I told that story
(29:21):
to quite a few of my friends who worked on
other shows, and they were like, are you kidding me?
I said no, they I said, the producer and the actors,
because you guys came after the strike was over, when
we came back, and you gave us like two thousand
dollars a piece to the whole crew. That was nunheard of.
(29:45):
That was simply unheard of. It was such a blessing
to all of us because many people had families like him,
and they needed to know they had some sucks sort
of security and what what they were gonna do. I mean,
because other shows were down also, so this was such
a blessing and because we were family. Yeah, at that point,
(30:05):
we absolutely true. That's absolutely true. Yeah, you felt it.
I mean, Greg, you know the caterers and what show
has the same caterers for nine years? Eventually someone's like,
we did, guys, we love it burn in a good way, right,
(30:30):
But I mean he he didn't ever want to change
it up. He had loyalty to everyone who was there.
Yeah he did, Yeah, he did. Those guys were so good.
We ate well. They us. They would even remember they
would put up on our like if you they knew
that you liked a certain things they made like a
name of my breed or something. True. That's true, that's true.
(30:53):
I still have pictures of those menus. That's true. That's right.
And and we had the best craft service at Peter
Peter got blessed, bless Yeah, you started talking about this
(31:23):
a little before, but just how hair changed over over
the course of the show, like specifically with Pam or
with Kelly. What were the decisions that were made. Were
you softening Pam or what happened? It depended on what
episode we were doing. Again, originally, in the beginning, they
(31:43):
were supposed to be very simple, very plain, you know,
regular day people. But as some people became producers of
the show, then they had an actual say more in
what I could do for them. So, um, you'll see
the evolution of Pam's hair for instance, where she was
very kind of messy and it was a scrunchy thing
(32:04):
and kind of pulled back right and she had that
clip in all the time, and then and then literally
in season two and I remember her talking about this
because I listened to her podcast, but she said, you know,
Kim was so happy for the first time ever she
was able to have all of her hair down, which
was true because we had had it, you know, in
a clip with the scrunchy and it was just and
(32:25):
she has this natural curl and we got to kind
of smooth it out and make it a little more
fun and a little more designed. And the same thing
with Angela. You know, originally her character was she's supposed
to be very severe, She's very uptight. She doesn't really
care as much. She just wants you know, she's all business.
So that was true in the first few but then
(32:48):
as that evolved as well, then she had her hair
in a ponytail and then sometimes she'd have it down
and I did the Angela braid on her, which was
really fun, and that little headband braid, and and so
she got to be a little softer, but also her
character was softening. So I think it kind of played
with how they you know, what their direction was, as
they're falling in love with different people, or their meeting
(33:09):
new people, or kind of that course of it just
going forward. But um, and the same thing with Steve
when I first met him and we changed his hair
immediately and he was really on board too, so that
kind of stayed and he kind of kept that same
look for him the whole time. But again there were
a lot of hair gags. There was gum and his hair.
I remember that day I had to peanut butter on
(33:29):
my hands for twelve hours and it was just insane. So,
you know, every gag had its thing, And even the
big thing with with Kate and having her head shaved,
that was four weeks of prep for me because I
had to plan you know, she needed to be bald,
so we needed a specialist and then he ended up,
you know, doing the ball cap for her. But I
(33:50):
had to build hair pieces for her, and we had
to do tests, and we had to do another test
and then a third test and then remember you guys
were like grabbing the hair, and you know, I had
to teacher, and I had to shave um. I had
to get a certain clipper, and then I had to
modify the clipper just so it wouldn't tear if she
was pushing it back because it was so thin. You
have to make sure it's not going to tear. Like
(34:11):
there was so many variables to that. It was four
weeks of prep just for that gag. But everybody thought
she actually shaved her head, which it was pretty great,
pretty great, and and and Kate, it's really healthy and
so much, so much to make that flat. It took
me forty five minutes to do the actual rap to
get her head underneath. And then yeah, it was a lot,
(34:32):
which was fun. Though I loved that stuff. I love
that Greg would challenge me and he was happy each time,
which was great. So, right, was there ever any discussion
about Pam's hair changing based on where she was with
her relationship with Jim. Yes, yes, absolutely about that, as
(34:53):
she was kind of they were kind of falling for
each other. She got a lot more saw after, so
we did. We got rid of all her natural curl
and we started doing like blow drives, and then we
started doing curls and waves and something very soft because
she was kind of falling in love with this person
and same thing for him, so it definitely changed for
her at that point. Right, Um, so did you leave
(35:18):
before the end? I sadly did a few days. Um,
because as the show was ending, right, Greg kept adding
and then he added another week, and then he added
another week. And what I had set up was that
I was going to be going to show Pretty Little
(35:39):
Liars actually, and I had gotten that job, but it
was literally like a month and a half away. So
I thought, well, fine, I'll take a little time off,
you know, and then I'll just top on this other show.
And then he like booked another week and I'm like, well,
and I even told production too, I you know, this
is getting nervous, because then it pushed again and I
was like, wow, this is really getting close, and I'm
(36:01):
a little nervous, but they're like, no, no, no, it's
never going to go over that. And then I remember
literally the Sunday night that we were wrapping or I wrapped,
we still had a couple more days. It's like three
more days or something. I think you did. I don't remember,
but um, I was devastated because I really wanted to
be there. That was my show. I lived that show
for ten years basically, you know, on and off, with
(36:22):
the seasons that we would go down a little bit. Yeah,
it was really hard for me to not be there
those last few days, and I know that it was
a whole thing with everyone there and everyone came back,
and I felt really left out. I'm not gonna lie.
It was sad. Oh yeah, yeah, because that was I mean,
I lived that show for so long and it was
all of my friends, and I wish I could have
been there. I know, Debbie took over and she ran it,
(36:44):
you know, those last few days, and I knew she
would do a great job. But it was really hard
because I then, you know, started Sunday night, I rapped,
I think it was like twelve thirty at night, and
then Monday morning, I went in at seven am to
load into the next trailer and worked you know that
week as a prep week, and then went right into
(37:04):
that show. So I didn't get a break. But I
really hate that I missed those last few days. But
they would sendny pictures and they were communicating, Yeah, it awesomething.
I mean to see a show that you've been with
all that many years and your baby, it was your baby. Yeah,
I mean we were there from the beginning and uh,
(37:27):
you know, people came, people went, but we were still
there and to see it all come to an end
that it was just kind of heart wrenching. It. Yeah,
my kids would come and visit and I had that
picnic table in the back, if you remember, because I
would just want to sit with them privately, and every
time all the actors and more, I'm like, no, no, no, no,
you don't you know, like they would come up, they
(37:47):
would pick up the kids, they would take them to
craft service and it was so sweet, Like it was
such a great I don't know if you'll ever have
another show like that. I really I don't know, do you.
I mean, it was such a different show than any
thing I've ever been on. Right, and I still am
in touch with Angelot. You know, I'm hopefully going to
go to their podcast and hang with them for a minute.
(38:08):
But you know, it was so nice to see Creed
in Vegas. And then I've I've seen Kate doing some
shows and I was still in touch and still there.
You know, Um, I did this crazy show for Hulu Housewives,
yeah and the kidding, and I went and uh, they
(38:32):
were telling me who was going to be on it,
and I saw Angela and so I said, well, you know,
we're not going to tell it until we had to
meet with the actors. And so when I walked in
her face just lit day and we hugged each other,
it was just wonderful. She said, I didn't know you
were going to be here. It was a good surprise,
(38:55):
and so we were able to you know, work everything out.
It was just you know, like a home week. It's great.
(39:17):
Oh my gosh. I um, yeah, it's just to me,
it's crazy like these I mean, ordinary is a nice
way to say it, but a lot of ordinary looking
people on this show, middle aged office workers. Even though
the characters are universal. The fact that so many kids
are into it now, my kids are into this show, now,
(39:41):
you know how weird. That is for me. They love
Effort has a Dunder Mifflin shirt, he has Dunder mid
Flynn pants, like he says, Oh my god, all my
friends and they love that show. Like you know, it
makes me kind of cool. Yes, you are how old?
He's fifteen and he's that's were now Connor just passed me.
(40:04):
It's not baby. They were yeah, they were tiny. Do
they remember anything about being there? They remember craft service? Okay, right,
well that makes sense. Yeah, that's where they can get
All my friends. Teenagers and young adults are into it,
all of them. Yeah. Yeah, And you're like you said,
(40:26):
if you wear anything that has like my jacket or
I have my chat onto something, people walk out there
like right on. You know, yeah, they stopped you and stuff.
I remember we did the thing out and uh we
were at the country club somewhere West l As. It
was a golf thing, okay, yes, remember remember yes, yes,
And so we were going back and forth and they
(40:48):
were huge crowds of young people, teenagers that were like
so excited about the show. Yeah yeah, even then young
It appeals to ye the parents though, and yeah, I
think it appears that it appeals I'm telling you from
thirteen on up? Is your thirteen year old into it
(41:10):
or more than sixteen? Um, he was watching it for
a while, but then he's kind of switched into his
mother stuff, so he goes back to it. But yeah,
EVERT was excited that he um, yeah, that he has
stuff from the show, and yeah, it's kind of cool. Yeah. Six. Four,
I know. Four. Let me let me ask you one
more question. What five? Why would you choose to work
(41:36):
in film and television as opposed to like a salon? Okay,
I can tell you what it is for me. Um,
As a little girl, I used to watch television and
old movies. I loved old movies, you know, Clark Gable,
Myrna Lloyd, whoever, Gary Cooper, Sydney Port Geane, Kelly, Freda Stair, Oh,
(42:02):
my god, Rosny Russell. So it was just a dream
of mine, and I guess I as I grew up,
and I just started realizing what God gave me as
a gift, which was was doing here. I did. My
mother would give me dollars every year and m by
the time they ended, she get up Christmas, by the
(42:23):
time June came, they were balled here because I curled
him and twisted them. And so I guess when I
came out here, it was a goal of mine to
get into film and television. That wasn't an easy thing,
but um, I just kept pursuing and um, but it
(42:44):
wasn't my timing, it was God's timing. And uh, one
day he opened up a door for me and I
went through and oh my god, it's just been wonderful.
But I wanted to work, and so and I worked
in the salon. I had a very sccessful career in
the salon. When I got ready to leave, my clients
were like, what you leave in me? You know? I
(43:07):
knew a platform artists to write a platform artists. Yeah,
I work for Revalon for many years and so I
had different phases of the beauty industry. But this was
and is my favorite. Yeah. I I've been um blessed
to work on some really great shows, meet some really
(43:29):
good people. This one here, now, I just gotta say
how much I love and care about her. Um. Oh,
I know what you're gonna say when we started this show,
and you're gonna excuse me we started the show. Um,
I was diagnosed with breast cancer and I told Kimmy
(43:53):
I said, Kim, I know that you know you you
need to have some money that's going to be around
and help you and do and all. And um, you
know I'm gonna have to go and take care of this.
And I appreciate you let me work with you so far,
but I know you're gonna need to get somebody else.
And she said to me, Debbie Pierce, I will not
(44:17):
let you go. That's because you're gonna need those hours
and you're going to need that to get through this.
So I will cover your shift every night, and you
will go to therapy and you will take care of
yourself so you survive this. And I will do anything
you need. And she did. She brought in some people
temporarily to help. And then I, um, I went all
(44:40):
you guys, all guys, she wouldn't let me quit. Um.
I went UH through treatment for two and a half months.
I left every day after after touch ups at two
and I went to UH Daniel Freeman which is no
more at in l A meeting Inglewood, and I took
(45:00):
my treatment. I had my surgery and took my treatment
and I came back to work. And you guys, you
know we're so kind and loving to me, and I
appreciate that so much to this day. I I just
love this one. Yeah, and you're still here kicking at girls.
(45:23):
Yeah we did the right thing. Yeah we did well.
How does it feel knowing you were a little girl
watching Clark Gable and fred As Stare and you grew
up and became an important part of television history yourself? Brian,
(45:48):
I can't tell you, um, what a feeling that is. Um.
The last two years eighteen and nineteen, I worked on
a couple of projects that were nominated for Emmies, and
I got nominated um along with those projects, and I
(46:10):
I was just floored because here's this little black girl
from Younger's New York who watched all those people on
the movies and television and everything, and now I have
an opportunity two be in that arena and do the work.
(46:31):
I was honored. I was thrilled. I was humbled. I
was thanking my God that I was able to I
have this opportunity to do what I love to do.
It was amazing. It was amazing. So I I'm and
I'm still in awe. You know. I worked on a
(46:53):
thing that a couple of weeks ago they were doing
a thing called Perry Amazing. Oh yeah, they're doing a
Pary Amazing, which is a period they're doing it when
he was a young lawyer. Yeah, it was very cool
they did it. We did the thirties and all. So
that was wonderful for me. And that was the great
thing about um, you know, having opportunities to go back
(47:16):
and do periods that you grew up seeing. It's just
fun here to do, you know. And even when we
did stuff on the show, doing different wigs and stuff
to uh, you know whatever characters, and we did Farrell, Um,
Will Farrell, we had we did Will Ferrell and uh
(47:37):
you remember Fredis Stair but not Will Ferrell. Sorry, Will
no lovely man. It's such a lovely man. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
we did. We did uh we did some fun things
Phyllis's wedding. Yeah, what are you What are you most
(47:57):
proud of? Honestly, I would say the Office, I really would.
It was such a great show. It was It seemed
in the beginning we had so many challenges and it
just wasn't going to go, but we stuck with it
and then it just like slowly got this falling And
actually I remember, um and I've said this to other people.
(48:19):
Remember when you guys had my Space where before Facebook,
they all went out and I remember, like Jenna and Johnny,
like all of you, We're going and saying, you know,
we want to be on Carson and we want to
go on these shows. And you put yourself out there.
And I feel sincerely that that's what saved the show
because you were, you know, in a in a time
where we didn't have I mean, social media how it
(48:40):
is today is crazy, but back then you were physically
going to shows, you were going on my Space. You
understood that we could reach more people, and I think
that helped float it and then it turned it. Yeah,
I mean we were definitely so we were struggling so
much and we all felt like it could end at
any moment. Yeah, there was a very active campaign by
(49:04):
the actors to say, like, let's see if we can
keep this going a little bit longer, just because we
felt like it was. It was, it was a good
show and it was worth it. You put in the work,
You actually put in the work, and that's what turned
everything around. Yeah, it did, it really did. And I think, yes,
like I said, season two, I think it found it
(49:25):
the footing of it and it kind of excelled, and
it just it took on a life of its own,
and I think that's really what held it together. And
I knew they within a few weeks were like, yeah,
I really did. And it just went forever, which was awesome.
So it was nice to have that long of a
run and through the whole process to what was cool
is that people are getting married, people are buying cars
(49:47):
for the first time, people are buying house and you know,
so it kind of it was such a cool thing
to see everybody, you know, moving into different stages of
what of life. Yeah yeah, I mean whole thirties was
spent there. Oh wow, yes, I mean that's that's a decade.
(50:08):
It was a decade of our lives. Yeah, yeah, it was.
That's why it's so sentimental and it's so it meant
so much, such a great show. Yeah. Well, um, thank
you guys so much for coming to talk to me
so much. It's so good to see. It's so good
to see you. I will get your hairpiece to you
(50:29):
and we'll just try it on someday. You know. I
just wore a really really bad one for the first
time since then, like a really bad yes, I mean
it was sort of intentionally it was. It was a
movie that took place in the eighties, and it had
kind of a what is it Jimmy swagger, like jim
(50:53):
Baker Baker kind of. They showed me a picture of
the idea which was like kind us Sam Donaldson with
that like strong, strong with the hair. Yeah, so it
wasn't necessarily supposed to look good. I don't know. I
haven't seen the dailies. We'll see if it if that works,
(51:16):
if it works like somewhat believably because there's yeah, but yeah,
it comes off later in the movie. Yeah. Um, thanks
you guys. Oh my god, the three of us, can
we get a photo of me? And Oh my gosh,
(51:38):
good to see you. Oh how much fun did I have?
Debbie and Kim. Thank you so much for joining me.
(52:00):
I really enjoyed talking to you. And let me just say,
I am so glad that you decided to join the
TV biz and leave your beauty salons. I don't know
what we would have done without you and listeners. I
don't know what we would do without you, so thank
you so much for listening. You know, if a tree
falls in the woods and no one listens. Did we
(52:24):
make this podcast? I don't know, but I hope you
have a magnificent week and I am going to see
you next time for another episode of the Office Deep Dive.
The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by
(52:46):
me Brian baum Gartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our
senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers are Diego Tapia
and Liz Hayes. My main man in the booth is
Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by
my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed
by Seth Olandsky.
Host
Brian Baumgartner
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