February 16, 2021 • 36 mins
She may look a lot like Pam Beesley, but Jenna Fischer is actually pretty different from her character. Jenna discusses how she learned that drama "wasn't her thing," the time she laid everything down to protect the Office pilot DVD, and DMing fans on Myspace from set... back when Myspace was a thing.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Jenna Fisher. I played Pam Beasley. Hi everybody,
welcome back. Here we are. We're back baby the Office
Deep Dive. I'm your host, Brian Baumgartner. Today you will
be hearing my conversation with Jenna Fisher. Let me tell
(00:30):
you something. Jenna and I bonded during the run of
the show. We were both nerds for television, and we
would have long conversations about television and what we were
doing in television. In a way, those conversations are what
led me to want to do this podcast. Conversations that
(00:51):
I had over the years with Jenna and recently since
I started this podcast. And she obviously is the grand Puma.
I don't think that's the right phrase of podcast. Her
and Angela obviously a host and produced office Ladies. Jenna
and I over the last couple of years have been
bonding once again over the office, what the office means
(01:16):
today in the cultural zeitgeist, and she and I have
had lengthy conversations about that very subject. And today you're
gonna get to be a a fly on the wall.
I can't wait for you to hear it. She is
one of the most insightful, incisive, smart uh women that
I know, and I'm so excited to talk about the
(01:38):
thing that we both love, the office. So here she
is Jenna Fisher. Bubble and squeak, I love it. Bubble
and squeaker, Bubble and squeaker cookie, every moon, lift over
(01:59):
the night, befo. Oh are you? What is this? I
don't know? Are you? Oh my gosh, it's happening. You
(02:23):
can see. I got all dressed up in my in
my hat and puffy coat. I are we beginning? Have
we begun? I mean you're ready? Looks Officially, you have
papers and in a computer? Do you use a You
don't use a computer during my podcast, I use papers
and Angel uses notes note cards. See. I can scroll here,
(02:44):
I can scroll through things, and I can skip on
interesting things. But you're staring right in my eyes while
you do Yeah, so I don't have to do this. Yeah.
That's so loud and messy, and I was very distracted
by that. It's slightly weird to be staring it out
while someone's hand is like scrolling. I won't see it.
I won't, I won't. I'm not going to scroll through
(03:06):
fifteen pages. Fifteen pages. Listen, there's a lot here. This
is a big day. It's a really big day. So
two three, what were you doing before the office? I
had been at this point finally making a living as
an actor for one year. I'd been in Los Angeles
(03:28):
over seven years, but I was finally earning my all
of my living from just acting. I had done a pilot.
You get paid a lot to do a pilot, so
that was a big thing. But the pilot wasn't picked up.
So I made a grandiose announcement to my management and
agents that I would be quitting acting. I couldn't take
it anymore. I couldn't take the rejection. I just was
(03:51):
putting my heart out there and I just thought, I'm
going to become a vet technician. I was very sure
this is true, this is true. Don't remember this. I
looked into it. It's a two year program. It's very
full time. And my manager, Naomi oeden Kirk, she said
to me, Jenna, will you give us one more year?
I mean, you're so close, you really are. You don't
(04:14):
understand this is what it is. My acting coach yelled
at me and said, don't be stupid. You're doing great.
This is what an actor's life is. It's a series
of minor accomplishments and tons of rejection. So this is
being an actor. You're doing it. So I said, Okay,
I'll do one more year. And that was the year
(04:37):
that I got the audition for Pam on the Office.
By the way, I was also uh starting down my
vet tech. I was working with an animal rescue group
and I was taking care of cats in my own home.
I was learning how to do things like fluids and
all kinds of medical things. I did not know this. Yeah,
(05:01):
I was trapped neutering and releasing cats in the wild word.
Then Allison Jones called and asked me to audition for
the Office. Now I had been auditioning for Allison Jones
for five years. So the first thing I went on
a general meeting with Allison and uh it was a
great meeting, and Allison called me into audition for a
one line role on Freaks and Geeks. I didn't get it.
(05:24):
Then Allison called me to audition for Undeclared, which was
a Jet Apatow show, for one line, and I got it.
And then that one line led to a second episode
where I had two lines. So this was my first
recurring role. But this is all you know a while ago.
Um I think I also through Allison, got my very
(05:46):
first speaking role on television was for Spin City the
Charlie Sheen years. So those were some a few of
my ways that Allison had been in my life, and
she was great. She also called me in for like
a Steven Spielberg mini series that I bombed. It went nowhere.
I was horrible, and she said, maybe drama is not
your thing, and then yeah, you know it's You're gonna
(06:09):
be fine. Don't worry. I'm still going to call you
in for other things, but maybe drama is not your thing.
So very quickly, my Alison Jones story was I moved
to l A right before The Office started, and I
knew the British version of the Office very well, and
I knew they were doing an American version. I was like,
this is the show that I must be on. And
(06:29):
so I went to my agent at the time and
I said, Okay, they're looking for people who are not known,
and they said, this is a direct quote. They said,
they're looking for unknown people, but not like you, unknown,
not like totally. But my manager he kept calling and
calling and calling, and I went and I met with
(06:51):
Phillis then I met with Alison and then I ended
up doing that. Well, so here's the thing that little
caveat in the casting call that said known actors only.
That was why this was my big break. And this
was also why I had been so frustrated and wanted
to give up, because I would go through these long
audition processes for television shows and I would get as
(07:14):
far as the on camera test part, and then they
would give it to Alice and Hannagan. Alison Hannagan got
like three parts that I was four. She I could
not breakthrough Alice in Hannagan. But I was this unknown
actor and I had absolutely nothing to offer a billboard
on sunset boulevard. I had, you know, no name recognition.
(07:37):
So I couldn't get these big lead parts until the office,
when finally the thing that had been working against me
was my gift, which was that I was unknown. Right,
And now, what do you remember about the day off?
Did you see anybody else there any other people that
you you knew at the time or that ended up
being cast, or was there anything specific about that day? Well,
(07:58):
I've seen those casting sheets that Allison showed us at
the end of the series, and I saw all the
various well known now well known people who came in
to read for the different parts, and none of those
people were at my casting call that I remember, but
I was. I was just very focused on my audition.
Can we play that clip? You have a clip? M hmm.
(08:23):
I hope they get rid of me, because then I
might actually get off my ass and do something, because
I don't think it's many little girls dreams to grow
up and be a receptionist. And I don't know what
I'm gonna do, but whatever it is, it's got to
be a career move, not just another arbitrary job. And
Jim's advice was that it's better to be at the
bottom of a ladder that you want to climb than
(08:45):
halfway up one you don't. Was that my audition? That's insane?
Do you remember that? I mean? Was that was that you?
Or was that was that scripted? That was scripted? So
I had a monologue that was scripted that that talking head.
I also did a scene. I did the scene where
Michael fires Pam and she calls him a jerk, where
(09:06):
he fake fires her as a joke, and then I
had a just improvised interview with Greg. Greg Daniels was
there at my first audition. I went, I guess straight
to producers, as they call it. So Alison and Greg
were there, and I remember Greg being very wringing his
(09:27):
hands like in like a fun like he couldn't believe
he's going to get to start this project and he's
so excited, and and I just remember the way he
was looking at me. He was very curious, kind of like,
she's not doing much? Is she interesting? That's so well,
So I'm gonna start talking about myself again, because it's
(09:49):
ultimately everything is about me. My thing was I knew
that Kevin was the part that I should have, and
Alison Jones is brilliant, but she had me reading for Stanley,
and so I read Stanley as if it were Kevin Ah,
And then I left the room thinking, well, I'm not sure,
(10:11):
and sure enough she ran after me and said, we
had this other part that we want you to look at.
And so then that's how that happened. Oh that's amazing. Um,
the test process, how is that? Yeah? So normally when
you test for a show, you just perform your scenes
live in front of a conference room full of executives.
(10:34):
But we were told that because the camera was such
an essential part of our show, and relating to the
camera was so important that they wanted to do an
on camera series of test scenes with the final four
actors for each part. So they called us into an
actual office building for two days and they mixed and
(10:54):
matched us and they taped us doing scenes. And it
was great because we were able to give those looks
to camera. We were able to react when we noticed
the camera was there when we thought it wasn't. It
really was such a huge element of the show. Greg's
other argument for doing it that way was that the
show was small and its acting and the moments that
(11:18):
played the biggest were small moments, and he didn't really
feel like auditioning in a conference room was going to
give the executives the right feel for what he was
going for what the show was. Yeah, totally genius. And
now I think you have told this story or this
is lore. What do you remember about Your manager calls
(11:39):
you and says you've been cast as Pam. Yes, I
think you might be wondering if The first question I
asked was is John Krasinski playing Jim and that is true?
And they said yes, And I was like, Okay, then
we're going to be fine. Because I was a little worried.
I was like, if it's not him, I hope I
can still do it, because they mad to me with
(12:00):
him a lot on our test day, and you know,
I was like, this guy's making it real easy for me,
so please cast me with him. Now, going back to
(12:29):
the pilot, it seems to me that so like your
test experience, right, there were a number of things that
were unique and different that came from from Ken or
Greg or a combination. Um, what are some of the
things that you remember that we're different in the way
that the pilot was shot from say a normal television show.
(12:53):
I remember on the pilot, everyone in the cast had
to be hair and makeup ready and at their desk
starting at seven thirty am, and we would work quote
unquote for thirty minutes. And Ken would walk around with
just a camera operator and a boom and record us
(13:13):
at our desks. Just be roll of us at our desks, right,
And what what did you think of the pilot when
you saw it? What did I think of the pilot
when I saw it. I must have watched that pilot
a gazillion times. I have a very embarrassing story about
watching them. Okay, go ahead. So um. There was a
(13:35):
friend of a friend who was this big deal manager
and he really wanted to see the pilot. And I thought, well,
I have a DVD of the pilot. Maybe I'll take
it to his office. But I was so afraid of
it leaking that I insisted that he watched it while
I sit across from him. I wouldn't leave the office
(13:56):
without the DVD. I was like, well, you can watch it,
but you have to watch it right now while I wait,
what was I doing? I was nobody. I don't know.
Isn't that so weird? So bizarre? But he really wanted
to see it because everybody in town wanted to see
the pilot. Everyone wanted to see it. They were dying
(14:16):
to see what this American version of the British show
was going to be. Now, Brian, do you remember coming
to my house and watching the pilot and sitting on
my floor and gathering all together? Yes? I do. Yeah.
Angela was talking to me about it recently and she
was like, well, I remember you couldn't get the sound
to work on your sound system And I was like really,
and she was like yeah, and I remember my dog
(14:37):
got out and I had to chase my dog down
the street. That's another story, but but that was sort
of the beginning of us all gathering together to watch
the show every week, which is what we did. That's
so I've totally forgot about that. Um So, so we're
in a real office space and we are doing this
(14:59):
fake work, b rural stuff, like all of these elements
to try to create sort of the ultimate reality. And
to me that there's something interesting. Well, what would you
say your training was as an act as an actor? Yeah, um,
I have a Bachelor of Arts and Theater from a
little liberal arts college in rural Missouri called Treuman State.
So this job was a dream job for me as
(15:22):
a theater geek. To be able to do this acting
exercise where I'm at my disk, excuse me very much,
but I'm acting, was like, oh, it was everything my
training had prepared me for that. Yes, that's and so
that was you and then Rain and I knew each
other a little bit from theater as well. And then
(15:43):
you've got Angela and Oscar and Steve who are like
improv right, and we've got b J and Craig Robinson
that are stand up guys. Primarily to me, there's there
was something about the creation of the ensemble that there
were all of these funny people, but they all sort
of had a different perspective, and there was something about
(16:05):
the reality, sort of the ultra reality of being stuck
in this room and doing this work and always being
there together that that sort of helped meld us together
in a weird way. Yeah, I think if we had
all been improv performers, it would have been a ship show, right,
Or if we were all theater people, we would have
(16:25):
been taking off all of ourselves too. Seriously, the mix
was important, like the way all of the ingredients came together.
And I think you know, another thing that was really
unusual was that we were all always at work, because
if you weren't a scene, you were in the background
of a scene. We would joke sometimes we'd be like,
do none of us go to the bathroom? We never
(16:48):
leave for lunch, Like we're always all at our desks.
By season six or seven, people were going to the
bathroom a little bit more from Time to Die more
more often then Um, all right, well theoter nerd. How
is Pam different from Jenna? Well, it would not take
me three years to tell Jim that I had feelings
(17:10):
for him. I mean, I would have dumped Roy much quicker.
I would have been like, who's this guy? Because not
just that, I mean when we meet Pam and Jim,
they've already been working together for a couple of years,
and then it's still three more years after that before
they figure some stuff out. I mean, I I'm much
more ambitious, much more of an entrepreneurial spirit than Pam. However,
(17:38):
the way that we are very similar is that it
took me a long time, like Pam, to figure out
how to speak up for myself. Like Pam, I spent
many years sitting at a reception desk wishing that I
was doing something else. I literally sat at reception desks
and day dreamed about the day that I might be
(18:00):
an actor. And Pam sits at that desk and she
daydreams about being artistically expressed, And so I could really
relate to that, that feeling of I want something more
than what I'm doing, but I don't know how to
get it exactly. But I will say that as Jenna,
I was taking much more actions in my life to
(18:22):
get out of my situation than I think Pam did.
It took Pam a lot longer, but she had a
lot of more um forces against her than I did.
You know, I'm not sure Pam's mom was saying things
to her, or her parents were saying things to her like, honey,
you can do anything you want to do. If you
want to be an artist, you go be an artist.
(18:43):
I mean that that was the messaging that I was
getting from my parents. You gotta go for it. Do
what you love in life. Even if you aren't successful,
you'll be glad you did it. I mean, I had
those kind of parents. They didn't support me financially as
an actor, but they supported my spirit and they were
always is there for that pep talk, And I mean,
I don't even know if I can explain how valuable
(19:05):
that was. And it was clear to me that Pam
didn't have some of those tools and her toolbox. Do
you do you think that Greg and the writing staff,
because in a way they were masterful about this, right
about finding things, finding things that were true to you
the actor, and incorporating them into the story. Do you
(19:26):
think that Pam's want and desire to be an artist
and to be seen in that way? Do you think
that there's anything that was taken from you. I'm not sure,
because if I remember correctly, I feel like the character
on the British show had some minor desire to be
an artist. Doesn't doesn't the Tim character give Don some
drawing pencils at some point? Am I making that up?
(19:49):
I don't remember. I don't know, But um I do
know that Greg used to ask me questions about my thoughts,
and that that was so unusual. The fact that several
of our writers were also actors, so they were down
with us, they were observing us all the time. I
mean you, Angela and Oscar single handedly created that insane
(20:13):
dynamic between the three of you through I believe improvisation
when you were bored in the background, and so then
you've got Mindy, b J and Paul watching you guys
and then taking that back up to the writer's room
and flushing it out. It was genius that Gregg did
it that way. But then more than that, Greg truly
(20:34):
believed that no one knew our characters more than we did,
and he would ask us questions all the time. He
cared about our opinions. He wanted to know all the time,
what do you think Pam would think of this situation.
He was always very curious. He also knew that I
worked in offices and that I had worked as a receptionist,
and he used to ask me questions, what's the craziest
(20:54):
thing one of your boss has ever made you do?
And I can't remember if I told the story to
him before or after, But there's that episode where Michael
is refusing to sign all of his documents until the
end of the day. He just keeps putting it off
and putting it off and putting it off. And I
(21:15):
told Greg I had this boss once that every month,
at the end of the month, he had to turn
in this boiler plate report and he would put it
off and put it off. In one time, he put
it off so long I had to drive to l
a X because that was the last FedEx pickup. And
I was so pissed. And Greg was like he loved
those stories. He loved whenever we told him stories like that,
(21:38):
and they would get used. Okay, so was you have
(21:59):
the pilot we eventually air. It's striking to me that
you started like December ish right of like two thousand
three into January. We shot the pilot in February of
two thousand four, and it's thirteen months before anything gets
on the air. It's not so, I mean, it's well,
(22:22):
I've got a story about that. We shot the pilot
in March of two thousand four, and my thirtieth birthday
was March seven of two thousand four, and I did
not invite any of you to my thirtieth birthday party
because I assumed I would never see you again. I
was so sure that making the pilot was the end
(22:43):
of our show, that it would never get picked up,
not because it wasn't good, but because it was so
good and so weird and so special that no one
would give us a chance. I thought, well, I don't know.
All the word on the street was just how fun
making your pilot? That's all it'll be. And then, similarly,
(23:03):
have fun making your next five episodes. They'll probably just
be yours to own on a DVD enjoy. So yeah,
so then we go back, We make these five episodes
in a complete bubble, and then it was not until yeah,
like that following what was it? Was it like April
of two thousand five? They started March of two thousand five,
(23:25):
they finally start airing and they had to tell us
by May if we were picked up for the second season,
then yes, yeah, crazy, and we were a disaster, like
a ratings disaster. Well, if if it were today, we
would be a ratings hit right off the bat, because
(23:46):
but yes, we were a ratings disaster. But then you
know what happened, and I know exactly why we got
picked up. It was that four year old Virgin came out. Yeah,
fort year old Virtue came out. And I can I
can hear in my imagination a conference room filled with
(24:08):
NBC executives all saying, we aren't going to be the
assholes who let Steve Correll, the number one box office comedy,
start out of his television contract. Right, we're picking up
this show for six episodes of season two. Again, six
episodes is all we got for season two. But then
they really did Taylor the show more to Steve, more
(24:31):
to what Steve would be as Michael rather than um
as inspired by David Brent. So what do you remember?
What differences do you remember between one and two? Like
artistic changes, artistic changes. I think the biggest thing I
noticed was when we started season two, Steve had lost
like what twenty pounds are more. I don't know. He
(24:51):
was so fit because he had gotten in shape for
four year old virgin. And they started allowing the character
of Michael to be more sympath addict. They would let
him break our heart a little bit. Even in the Dundees,
for example, you see a bunch of people heckel Michael,
and then you see the people in the office stand
(25:12):
up for Michael. And in the first season none of
us ever stood up for Michael. We all just hated Michael.
But they started to allow Steve to display vulnerability, which
he's so good at. But then also you have an
episode in season two, like the Client, where you see
Michael start out as what seems like a total buffoon
(25:35):
and turn into a masterful salesperson. Right, you see a
reason that he actually has this job. Yes, And I
think those were differences. In the first season, we just
really leaned into his mean spirited buffoonery the ways he
irritated us. But now in season two we were bringing
(25:55):
out sprinklings of these very redeeming qualities in him. Or
even the Halloween episode in season two where at the
very end, after he's had this horrible day of having
to fire someone, you see him hand out candy to
these little kids. It makes me cry every time I
watch it every time, or the end of Office Olympics
where he's crying because everyone is so genuinely applauding for
(26:19):
his purchase of a condo. These little moments in each episode.
There seemed to be one in each episode that was
very different from season one. Right um season two, everything
everything changed, Right, so we have six episodes, and then
we do six episodes, and then didn't we get four more?
(26:41):
And then three more and then two? And then what
I remember very clearly was sometime after the New year,
they said, okay, you can finish two, and then within
two weeks we had an order for season three, a
(27:02):
full order. I did not remember that. Yes I do.
Do you think I'm wrong? No, I don't ge're wrong.
I always wondered because to me, I did not feel
like I had job security until Steve won the Golden Globe.
Well there was that, and then there was iTunes. Yeah,
they started doing the video iPods. The Christmas episode went
(27:25):
to number one like that, and the Christmas episode on
TV was our highest rated show. So it was like,
you know, from December to January, suddenly things changed, and
then after season two we won the Emmy. Yes, is
(27:45):
there anything specific about that night that you remember? I
remember that Emmy's because at this point now we had
become a bit of a critical darling. So in the beginning,
the critics hated us and they only compared us to
the British show. And then we had turned them around
now in time for the this Emmy Awards, and so
(28:08):
being at these awards, we were the new kids on
the block. We were super fresh. The critics loved us,
but we were still not a front runner to win,
and so it was a complete surprise when we won.
Many people there had no idea who we were. They
didn't recognize us. It's funny, I remember um. I remember
(28:29):
running into the cast of Scrubs and they were like
the big deal guys, and we were the newbies and
they were super nice to us, and I was like,
oh my gosh, it's Scrubs. Cut to like eight years later.
I remember then being at an award show and running
into the next batch, the new freshman class of TV,
(28:51):
and I remember thinking, oh, I'm Scrubs. Now we're Scrubs.
We're We're like the kids who've been around the block
a few times, totally see mine wasn't mine was Porsche
DROSSI oh you ran into at the first Emmy super nice,
so great, Yes, and that's what I thought. Um. Going
(29:12):
back a little bit, another thing that I think made
us really unique, um and also sort of that ultra
realism was Scranton. Yeah, and making the decision for it
to be Scranton. Well, and I know that they did
a lot of research when it came to just the
(29:34):
things that were around the office, local radio stations, hers
potato chips from Pennsylvania, We're in our vending machine, really
creating this realism, the Lackawanna County, UM, coal mine, coal mine.
It was like that, you know, working all that stuff
into the show. I know it really always broke Greg's
heart that we never shot an episode in Scranton. Every
(29:57):
year they would toy with idea of taking us there,
and it was just always cost prohibitive. I know Greg's
dream was that we would shoot the St. Patrick's Day Parade.
This is so crazy that you're saying this. That was
literally when asked my biggest regret, that was it? Yeah,
I would say the same. My biggest regret was that
(30:19):
we never shot in Scranton, but the city of Scranton.
I remember one year they were really looking into this
parade idea and they agreed to move their parade two
months earlier, you know, because we would have to shoot
before St. Patrick's Day. So they were going to have
their St. Patrick's Day parade in January, and they just
couldn't figure out, cost wise how to get the entire
(30:43):
cast and crew there. Right, to me, it's it's this
weird like dichotomy thing where even though it was about
Scranton where very few people had gone right on a
national scale, like people don't know those places, but having
those details sprinkled into me somehow translated to making it
(31:05):
more universal. I absolutely agree with you. I think as
a person who grew up in St. Louis, Missouri, me
and other people who grew up there, we so identify
our city as part of us, and so it made
it more universally real that we identified so strongly with
(31:25):
the city we were in Scranton, and I think that's
true of a lot of people where you grow up, right. No, absolutely,
there's just I love that city and there's something about
my connection to that city. Do you remember the I
can't remember the year, but the presidential election right where
everybody who was running somehow suddenly everybody was from Scranton, right,
(31:48):
like Joe Biden, Scranton connection, Hillary Clinton. They're all trying
to get into the office. Totally, it was all like,
oh yeah in Scranton, Pennsylvania. I used to go and
visit Grandma and she would you know. It was this
crazy like became the sort of cultural touchstone, like the
heart of the nation is located in Scranton, Pennsylvania. I
(32:11):
love it. Um. We talked about there was an interesting
thing where, you know, the ultimate question is why the
show is what it is now, which will examine in
a minute. But it seems like we were writing this
digital wave right like the show started. We're going to
(32:32):
do a show about a dying industry, and at the
same time that we're doing a show about a dying industry,
the technological advances we end up writing this wave. Well,
early on, you might remember a bunch of us were
on my Space Yes we're going to discuss Yes. Well, Angela,
b J and I and you did as well. We
(32:55):
had these MySpace pages that were on our computers while
we were in scenes, and we were interacting with people
on my Space. We were blogging, but we were also
I would type things to people like an instant message,
like Hey, when you watch the such and such episode
in this scene, you'll know I was typing this to you,
and we just it was like before Twitter, before Instagram,
(33:19):
before social media. It was really before Facebook. My Space
was the place that there was this social interaction totally.
And then there was iTunes that was huge for us.
And then there were the webisodes, the first show that
did that online content and obviously sort of culminating in
(33:39):
in Netflix. How do you think that the that those
things helped us either reach an audience or well, I
think it connected people deeply to the show. And to
have the actors of the TV show that you really
love interacting with you, answering your questions, caring as much
(34:00):
as you do, it kind of makes you feel like
you're part of it in a more real, intimate way.
And also it was real. That connection was real. There
would be times when the writers and Greg would read
some Twitter feedback about an episode or a storyline, and
it did affect things going forward. Give Me my Remote,
(34:24):
I think, was a website to where give me my
Remote yeah, all of the stuff. Yes, the idea of
these bloggers. We had a bunch of fan sites. We
had Office Tally dot com run by Jenny Tan and
this gal, Jenny did such a good job of running
this website that she would we would invite her to
visit the set and give her exclusives and things. And
(34:47):
then there was Northern Attack that was based on that
line from Diversity Day as Abraham Lincoln said, I will
attack you with the north Northern Attack. I love northern,
so give me my remote Northern Attack. All of these
TV websites and bloggers people started blogging about us, and
we were cool, right, like, oh no, totally yeah, And
(35:10):
so this was happening for the part of something. Yeah,
you were part of something. You were part of a
movement in a way, and and our show was part
of that movement. I think, all right, we're gonna pause
(35:34):
there for now, but we are going to be back
with more. Jenna, Oh my gosh, it's so good. It's
so good. I'm gonna make you wait for it until then.
Thank you for listening, all of you, and have have
a fantastic week. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and
(36:01):
executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer
Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer, our associate
producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor is Diego Tapia.
My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. Our
theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend
(36:22):
Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by seth Olansky
This is Jenna Fisher. I played Pam Beasley. Hi everybody,
welcome back. Here we are. We're back baby the Office
Deep Dive. I'm your host, Brian Baumgartner. Today you will
be hearing my conversation with Jenna Fisher. Let me tell
(00:30):
you something. Jenna and I bonded during the run of
the show. We were both nerds for television, and we
would have long conversations about television and what we were
doing in television. In a way, those conversations are what
led me to want to do this podcast. Conversations that
(00:51):
I had over the years with Jenna and recently since
I started this podcast. And she obviously is the grand Puma.
I don't think that's the right phrase of podcast. Her
and Angela obviously a host and produced office Ladies. Jenna
and I over the last couple of years have been
bonding once again over the office, what the office means
(01:16):
today in the cultural zeitgeist, and she and I have
had lengthy conversations about that very subject. And today you're
gonna get to be a a fly on the wall.
I can't wait for you to hear it. She is
one of the most insightful, incisive, smart uh women that
I know, and I'm so excited to talk about the
(01:38):
thing that we both love, the office. So here she
is Jenna Fisher. Bubble and squeak, I love it. Bubble
and squeaker, Bubble and squeaker cookie, every moon, lift over
(01:59):
the night, befo. Oh are you? What is this? I
don't know? Are you? Oh my gosh, it's happening. You
(02:23):
can see. I got all dressed up in my in
my hat and puffy coat. I are we beginning? Have
we begun? I mean you're ready? Looks Officially, you have
papers and in a computer? Do you use a You
don't use a computer during my podcast, I use papers
and Angel uses notes note cards. See. I can scroll here,
(02:44):
I can scroll through things, and I can skip on
interesting things. But you're staring right in my eyes while
you do Yeah, so I don't have to do this. Yeah.
That's so loud and messy, and I was very distracted
by that. It's slightly weird to be staring it out
while someone's hand is like scrolling. I won't see it.
I won't, I won't. I'm not going to scroll through
(03:06):
fifteen pages. Fifteen pages. Listen, there's a lot here. This
is a big day. It's a really big day. So
two three, what were you doing before the office? I
had been at this point finally making a living as
an actor for one year. I'd been in Los Angeles
(03:28):
over seven years, but I was finally earning my all
of my living from just acting. I had done a pilot.
You get paid a lot to do a pilot, so
that was a big thing. But the pilot wasn't picked up.
So I made a grandiose announcement to my management and
agents that I would be quitting acting. I couldn't take
it anymore. I couldn't take the rejection. I just was
(03:51):
putting my heart out there and I just thought, I'm
going to become a vet technician. I was very sure
this is true, this is true. Don't remember this. I
looked into it. It's a two year program. It's very
full time. And my manager, Naomi oeden Kirk, she said
to me, Jenna, will you give us one more year?
I mean, you're so close, you really are. You don't
(04:14):
understand this is what it is. My acting coach yelled
at me and said, don't be stupid. You're doing great.
This is what an actor's life is. It's a series
of minor accomplishments and tons of rejection. So this is
being an actor. You're doing it. So I said, Okay,
I'll do one more year. And that was the year
(04:37):
that I got the audition for Pam on the Office.
By the way, I was also uh starting down my
vet tech. I was working with an animal rescue group
and I was taking care of cats in my own home.
I was learning how to do things like fluids and
all kinds of medical things. I did not know this. Yeah,
(05:01):
I was trapped neutering and releasing cats in the wild word.
Then Allison Jones called and asked me to audition for
the Office. Now I had been auditioning for Allison Jones
for five years. So the first thing I went on
a general meeting with Allison and uh it was a
great meeting, and Allison called me into audition for a
one line role on Freaks and Geeks. I didn't get it.
(05:24):
Then Allison called me to audition for Undeclared, which was
a Jet Apatow show, for one line, and I got it.
And then that one line led to a second episode
where I had two lines. So this was my first
recurring role. But this is all you know a while ago.
Um I think I also through Allison, got my very
(05:46):
first speaking role on television was for Spin City the
Charlie Sheen years. So those were some a few of
my ways that Allison had been in my life, and
she was great. She also called me in for like
a Steven Spielberg mini series that I bombed. It went nowhere.
I was horrible, and she said, maybe drama is not
your thing, and then yeah, you know it's You're gonna
(06:09):
be fine. Don't worry. I'm still going to call you
in for other things, but maybe drama is not your thing.
So very quickly, my Alison Jones story was I moved
to l A right before The Office started, and I
knew the British version of the Office very well, and
I knew they were doing an American version. I was like,
this is the show that I must be on. And
(06:29):
so I went to my agent at the time and
I said, Okay, they're looking for people who are not known,
and they said, this is a direct quote. They said,
they're looking for unknown people, but not like you, unknown,
not like totally. But my manager he kept calling and
calling and calling, and I went and I met with
(06:51):
Phillis then I met with Alison and then I ended
up doing that. Well, so here's the thing that little
caveat in the casting call that said known actors only.
That was why this was my big break. And this
was also why I had been so frustrated and wanted
to give up, because I would go through these long
audition processes for television shows and I would get as
(07:14):
far as the on camera test part, and then they
would give it to Alice and Hannagan. Alison Hannagan got
like three parts that I was four. She I could
not breakthrough Alice in Hannagan. But I was this unknown
actor and I had absolutely nothing to offer a billboard
on sunset boulevard. I had, you know, no name recognition.
(07:37):
So I couldn't get these big lead parts until the office,
when finally the thing that had been working against me
was my gift, which was that I was unknown. Right,
And now, what do you remember about the day off?
Did you see anybody else there any other people that
you you knew at the time or that ended up
being cast, or was there anything specific about that day? Well,
(07:58):
I've seen those casting sheets that Allison showed us at
the end of the series, and I saw all the
various well known now well known people who came in
to read for the different parts, and none of those
people were at my casting call that I remember, but
I was. I was just very focused on my audition.
Can we play that clip? You have a clip? M hmm.
(08:23):
I hope they get rid of me, because then I
might actually get off my ass and do something, because
I don't think it's many little girls dreams to grow
up and be a receptionist. And I don't know what
I'm gonna do, but whatever it is, it's got to
be a career move, not just another arbitrary job. And
Jim's advice was that it's better to be at the
bottom of a ladder that you want to climb than
(08:45):
halfway up one you don't. Was that my audition? That's insane?
Do you remember that? I mean? Was that was that you?
Or was that was that scripted? That was scripted? So
I had a monologue that was scripted that that talking head.
I also did a scene. I did the scene where
Michael fires Pam and she calls him a jerk, where
(09:06):
he fake fires her as a joke, and then I
had a just improvised interview with Greg. Greg Daniels was
there at my first audition. I went, I guess straight
to producers, as they call it. So Alison and Greg
were there, and I remember Greg being very wringing his
(09:27):
hands like in like a fun like he couldn't believe
he's going to get to start this project and he's
so excited, and and I just remember the way he
was looking at me. He was very curious, kind of like,
she's not doing much? Is she interesting? That's so well,
So I'm gonna start talking about myself again, because it's
(09:49):
ultimately everything is about me. My thing was I knew
that Kevin was the part that I should have, and
Alison Jones is brilliant, but she had me reading for Stanley,
and so I read Stanley as if it were Kevin Ah,
And then I left the room thinking, well, I'm not sure,
(10:11):
and sure enough she ran after me and said, we
had this other part that we want you to look at.
And so then that's how that happened. Oh that's amazing. Um,
the test process, how is that? Yeah? So normally when
you test for a show, you just perform your scenes
live in front of a conference room full of executives.
(10:34):
But we were told that because the camera was such
an essential part of our show, and relating to the
camera was so important that they wanted to do an
on camera series of test scenes with the final four
actors for each part. So they called us into an
actual office building for two days and they mixed and
(10:54):
matched us and they taped us doing scenes. And it
was great because we were able to give those looks
to camera. We were able to react when we noticed
the camera was there when we thought it wasn't. It
really was such a huge element of the show. Greg's
other argument for doing it that way was that the
show was small and its acting and the moments that
(11:18):
played the biggest were small moments, and he didn't really
feel like auditioning in a conference room was going to
give the executives the right feel for what he was
going for what the show was. Yeah, totally genius. And
now I think you have told this story or this
is lore. What do you remember about Your manager calls
(11:39):
you and says you've been cast as Pam. Yes, I
think you might be wondering if The first question I
asked was is John Krasinski playing Jim and that is true?
And they said yes, And I was like, Okay, then
we're going to be fine. Because I was a little worried.
I was like, if it's not him, I hope I
can still do it, because they mad to me with
(12:00):
him a lot on our test day, and you know,
I was like, this guy's making it real easy for me,
so please cast me with him. Now, going back to
(12:29):
the pilot, it seems to me that so like your
test experience, right, there were a number of things that
were unique and different that came from from Ken or
Greg or a combination. Um, what are some of the
things that you remember that we're different in the way
that the pilot was shot from say a normal television show.
(12:53):
I remember on the pilot, everyone in the cast had
to be hair and makeup ready and at their desk
starting at seven thirty am, and we would work quote
unquote for thirty minutes. And Ken would walk around with
just a camera operator and a boom and record us
(13:13):
at our desks. Just be roll of us at our desks, right,
And what what did you think of the pilot when
you saw it? What did I think of the pilot
when I saw it. I must have watched that pilot
a gazillion times. I have a very embarrassing story about
watching them. Okay, go ahead. So um. There was a
(13:35):
friend of a friend who was this big deal manager
and he really wanted to see the pilot. And I thought, well,
I have a DVD of the pilot. Maybe I'll take
it to his office. But I was so afraid of
it leaking that I insisted that he watched it while
I sit across from him. I wouldn't leave the office
(13:56):
without the DVD. I was like, well, you can watch it,
but you have to watch it right now while I wait,
what was I doing? I was nobody. I don't know.
Isn't that so weird? So bizarre? But he really wanted
to see it because everybody in town wanted to see
the pilot. Everyone wanted to see it. They were dying
(14:16):
to see what this American version of the British show
was going to be. Now, Brian, do you remember coming
to my house and watching the pilot and sitting on
my floor and gathering all together? Yes? I do. Yeah.
Angela was talking to me about it recently and she
was like, well, I remember you couldn't get the sound
to work on your sound system And I was like really,
and she was like yeah, and I remember my dog
(14:37):
got out and I had to chase my dog down
the street. That's another story, but but that was sort
of the beginning of us all gathering together to watch
the show every week, which is what we did. That's
so I've totally forgot about that. Um So, so we're
in a real office space and we are doing this
(14:59):
fake work, b rural stuff, like all of these elements
to try to create sort of the ultimate reality. And
to me that there's something interesting. Well, what would you
say your training was as an act as an actor? Yeah, um,
I have a Bachelor of Arts and Theater from a
little liberal arts college in rural Missouri called Treuman State.
So this job was a dream job for me as
(15:22):
a theater geek. To be able to do this acting
exercise where I'm at my disk, excuse me very much,
but I'm acting, was like, oh, it was everything my
training had prepared me for that. Yes, that's and so
that was you and then Rain and I knew each
other a little bit from theater as well. And then
(15:43):
you've got Angela and Oscar and Steve who are like
improv right, and we've got b J and Craig Robinson
that are stand up guys. Primarily to me, there's there
was something about the creation of the ensemble that there
were all of these funny people, but they all sort
of had a different perspective, and there was something about
(16:05):
the reality, sort of the ultra reality of being stuck
in this room and doing this work and always being
there together that that sort of helped meld us together
in a weird way. Yeah, I think if we had
all been improv performers, it would have been a ship show, right,
Or if we were all theater people, we would have
(16:25):
been taking off all of ourselves too. Seriously, the mix
was important, like the way all of the ingredients came together.
And I think you know, another thing that was really
unusual was that we were all always at work, because
if you weren't a scene, you were in the background
of a scene. We would joke sometimes we'd be like,
do none of us go to the bathroom? We never
(16:48):
leave for lunch, Like we're always all at our desks.
By season six or seven, people were going to the
bathroom a little bit more from Time to Die more
more often then Um, all right, well theoter nerd. How
is Pam different from Jenna? Well, it would not take
me three years to tell Jim that I had feelings
(17:10):
for him. I mean, I would have dumped Roy much quicker.
I would have been like, who's this guy? Because not
just that, I mean when we meet Pam and Jim,
they've already been working together for a couple of years,
and then it's still three more years after that before
they figure some stuff out. I mean, I I'm much
more ambitious, much more of an entrepreneurial spirit than Pam. However,
(17:38):
the way that we are very similar is that it
took me a long time, like Pam, to figure out
how to speak up for myself. Like Pam, I spent
many years sitting at a reception desk wishing that I
was doing something else. I literally sat at reception desks
and day dreamed about the day that I might be
(18:00):
an actor. And Pam sits at that desk and she
daydreams about being artistically expressed, And so I could really
relate to that, that feeling of I want something more
than what I'm doing, but I don't know how to
get it exactly. But I will say that as Jenna,
I was taking much more actions in my life to
(18:22):
get out of my situation than I think Pam did.
It took Pam a lot longer, but she had a
lot of more um forces against her than I did.
You know, I'm not sure Pam's mom was saying things
to her, or her parents were saying things to her like, honey,
you can do anything you want to do. If you
want to be an artist, you go be an artist.
(18:43):
I mean that that was the messaging that I was
getting from my parents. You gotta go for it. Do
what you love in life. Even if you aren't successful,
you'll be glad you did it. I mean, I had
those kind of parents. They didn't support me financially as
an actor, but they supported my spirit and they were
always is there for that pep talk, And I mean,
I don't even know if I can explain how valuable
(19:05):
that was. And it was clear to me that Pam
didn't have some of those tools and her toolbox. Do
you do you think that Greg and the writing staff,
because in a way they were masterful about this, right
about finding things, finding things that were true to you
the actor, and incorporating them into the story. Do you
(19:26):
think that Pam's want and desire to be an artist
and to be seen in that way? Do you think
that there's anything that was taken from you. I'm not sure,
because if I remember correctly, I feel like the character
on the British show had some minor desire to be
an artist. Doesn't doesn't the Tim character give Don some
drawing pencils at some point? Am I making that up?
(19:49):
I don't remember. I don't know, But um I do
know that Greg used to ask me questions about my thoughts,
and that that was so unusual. The fact that several
of our writers were also actors, so they were down
with us, they were observing us all the time. I
mean you, Angela and Oscar single handedly created that insane
(20:13):
dynamic between the three of you through I believe improvisation
when you were bored in the background, and so then
you've got Mindy, b J and Paul watching you guys
and then taking that back up to the writer's room
and flushing it out. It was genius that Gregg did
it that way. But then more than that, Greg truly
(20:34):
believed that no one knew our characters more than we did,
and he would ask us questions all the time. He
cared about our opinions. He wanted to know all the time,
what do you think Pam would think of this situation.
He was always very curious. He also knew that I
worked in offices and that I had worked as a receptionist,
and he used to ask me questions, what's the craziest
(20:54):
thing one of your boss has ever made you do?
And I can't remember if I told the story to
him before or after, But there's that episode where Michael
is refusing to sign all of his documents until the
end of the day. He just keeps putting it off
and putting it off and putting it off. And I
(21:15):
told Greg I had this boss once that every month,
at the end of the month, he had to turn
in this boiler plate report and he would put it
off and put it off. In one time, he put
it off so long I had to drive to l
a X because that was the last FedEx pickup. And
I was so pissed. And Greg was like he loved
those stories. He loved whenever we told him stories like that,
(21:38):
and they would get used. Okay, so was you have
(21:59):
the pilot we eventually air. It's striking to me that
you started like December ish right of like two thousand
three into January. We shot the pilot in February of
two thousand four, and it's thirteen months before anything gets
on the air. It's not so, I mean, it's well,
(22:22):
I've got a story about that. We shot the pilot
in March of two thousand four, and my thirtieth birthday
was March seven of two thousand four, and I did
not invite any of you to my thirtieth birthday party
because I assumed I would never see you again. I
was so sure that making the pilot was the end
(22:43):
of our show, that it would never get picked up,
not because it wasn't good, but because it was so
good and so weird and so special that no one
would give us a chance. I thought, well, I don't know.
All the word on the street was just how fun
making your pilot? That's all it'll be. And then, similarly,
(23:03):
have fun making your next five episodes. They'll probably just
be yours to own on a DVD enjoy. So yeah,
so then we go back, We make these five episodes
in a complete bubble, and then it was not until yeah,
like that following what was it? Was it like April
of two thousand five? They started March of two thousand five,
(23:25):
they finally start airing and they had to tell us
by May if we were picked up for the second season,
then yes, yeah, crazy, and we were a disaster, like
a ratings disaster. Well, if if it were today, we
would be a ratings hit right off the bat, because
(23:46):
but yes, we were a ratings disaster. But then you
know what happened, and I know exactly why we got
picked up. It was that four year old Virgin came out. Yeah,
fort year old Virtue came out. And I can I
can hear in my imagination a conference room filled with
(24:08):
NBC executives all saying, we aren't going to be the
assholes who let Steve Correll, the number one box office comedy,
start out of his television contract. Right, we're picking up
this show for six episodes of season two. Again, six
episodes is all we got for season two. But then
they really did Taylor the show more to Steve, more
(24:31):
to what Steve would be as Michael rather than um
as inspired by David Brent. So what do you remember?
What differences do you remember between one and two? Like
artistic changes, artistic changes. I think the biggest thing I
noticed was when we started season two, Steve had lost
like what twenty pounds are more. I don't know. He
(24:51):
was so fit because he had gotten in shape for
four year old virgin. And they started allowing the character
of Michael to be more sympath addict. They would let
him break our heart a little bit. Even in the Dundees,
for example, you see a bunch of people heckel Michael,
and then you see the people in the office stand
(25:12):
up for Michael. And in the first season none of
us ever stood up for Michael. We all just hated Michael.
But they started to allow Steve to display vulnerability, which
he's so good at. But then also you have an
episode in season two, like the Client, where you see
Michael start out as what seems like a total buffoon
(25:35):
and turn into a masterful salesperson. Right, you see a
reason that he actually has this job. Yes, And I
think those were differences. In the first season, we just
really leaned into his mean spirited buffoonery the ways he
irritated us. But now in season two we were bringing
(25:55):
out sprinklings of these very redeeming qualities in him. Or
even the Halloween episode in season two where at the
very end, after he's had this horrible day of having
to fire someone, you see him hand out candy to
these little kids. It makes me cry every time I
watch it every time, or the end of Office Olympics
where he's crying because everyone is so genuinely applauding for
(26:19):
his purchase of a condo. These little moments in each episode.
There seemed to be one in each episode that was
very different from season one. Right um season two, everything
everything changed, Right, so we have six episodes, and then
we do six episodes, and then didn't we get four more?
(26:41):
And then three more and then two? And then what
I remember very clearly was sometime after the New year,
they said, okay, you can finish two, and then within
two weeks we had an order for season three, a
(27:02):
full order. I did not remember that. Yes I do.
Do you think I'm wrong? No, I don't ge're wrong.
I always wondered because to me, I did not feel
like I had job security until Steve won the Golden Globe.
Well there was that, and then there was iTunes. Yeah,
they started doing the video iPods. The Christmas episode went
(27:25):
to number one like that, and the Christmas episode on
TV was our highest rated show. So it was like,
you know, from December to January, suddenly things changed, and
then after season two we won the Emmy. Yes, is
(27:45):
there anything specific about that night that you remember? I
remember that Emmy's because at this point now we had
become a bit of a critical darling. So in the beginning,
the critics hated us and they only compared us to
the British show. And then we had turned them around
now in time for the this Emmy Awards, and so
(28:08):
being at these awards, we were the new kids on
the block. We were super fresh. The critics loved us,
but we were still not a front runner to win,
and so it was a complete surprise when we won.
Many people there had no idea who we were. They
didn't recognize us. It's funny, I remember um. I remember
(28:29):
running into the cast of Scrubs and they were like
the big deal guys, and we were the newbies and
they were super nice to us, and I was like,
oh my gosh, it's Scrubs. Cut to like eight years later.
I remember then being at an award show and running
into the next batch, the new freshman class of TV,
(28:51):
and I remember thinking, oh, I'm Scrubs. Now we're Scrubs.
We're We're like the kids who've been around the block
a few times, totally see mine wasn't mine was Porsche
DROSSI oh you ran into at the first Emmy super nice,
so great, Yes, and that's what I thought. Um. Going
(29:12):
back a little bit, another thing that I think made
us really unique, um and also sort of that ultra
realism was Scranton. Yeah, and making the decision for it
to be Scranton. Well, and I know that they did
a lot of research when it came to just the
(29:34):
things that were around the office, local radio stations, hers
potato chips from Pennsylvania, We're in our vending machine, really
creating this realism, the Lackawanna County, UM, coal mine, coal mine.
It was like that, you know, working all that stuff
into the show. I know it really always broke Greg's
heart that we never shot an episode in Scranton. Every
(29:57):
year they would toy with idea of taking us there,
and it was just always cost prohibitive. I know Greg's
dream was that we would shoot the St. Patrick's Day Parade.
This is so crazy that you're saying this. That was
literally when asked my biggest regret, that was it? Yeah,
I would say the same. My biggest regret was that
(30:19):
we never shot in Scranton, but the city of Scranton.
I remember one year they were really looking into this
parade idea and they agreed to move their parade two
months earlier, you know, because we would have to shoot
before St. Patrick's Day. So they were going to have
their St. Patrick's Day parade in January, and they just
couldn't figure out, cost wise how to get the entire
(30:43):
cast and crew there. Right, to me, it's it's this
weird like dichotomy thing where even though it was about
Scranton where very few people had gone right on a
national scale, like people don't know those places, but having
those details sprinkled into me somehow translated to making it
(31:05):
more universal. I absolutely agree with you. I think as
a person who grew up in St. Louis, Missouri, me
and other people who grew up there, we so identify
our city as part of us, and so it made
it more universally real that we identified so strongly with
(31:25):
the city we were in Scranton, and I think that's
true of a lot of people where you grow up, right. No, absolutely,
there's just I love that city and there's something about
my connection to that city. Do you remember the I
can't remember the year, but the presidential election right where
everybody who was running somehow suddenly everybody was from Scranton, right,
(31:48):
like Joe Biden, Scranton connection, Hillary Clinton. They're all trying
to get into the office. Totally, it was all like,
oh yeah in Scranton, Pennsylvania. I used to go and
visit Grandma and she would you know. It was this
crazy like became the sort of cultural touchstone, like the
heart of the nation is located in Scranton, Pennsylvania. I
(32:11):
love it. Um. We talked about there was an interesting
thing where, you know, the ultimate question is why the
show is what it is now, which will examine in
a minute. But it seems like we were writing this
digital wave right like the show started. We're going to
(32:32):
do a show about a dying industry, and at the
same time that we're doing a show about a dying industry,
the technological advances we end up writing this wave. Well,
early on, you might remember a bunch of us were
on my Space Yes we're going to discuss Yes. Well, Angela,
b J and I and you did as well. We
(32:55):
had these MySpace pages that were on our computers while
we were in scenes, and we were interacting with people
on my Space. We were blogging, but we were also
I would type things to people like an instant message,
like Hey, when you watch the such and such episode
in this scene, you'll know I was typing this to you,
and we just it was like before Twitter, before Instagram,
(33:19):
before social media. It was really before Facebook. My Space
was the place that there was this social interaction totally.
And then there was iTunes that was huge for us.
And then there were the webisodes, the first show that
did that online content and obviously sort of culminating in
(33:39):
in Netflix. How do you think that the that those
things helped us either reach an audience or well, I
think it connected people deeply to the show. And to
have the actors of the TV show that you really
love interacting with you, answering your questions, caring as much
(34:00):
as you do, it kind of makes you feel like
you're part of it in a more real, intimate way.
And also it was real. That connection was real. There
would be times when the writers and Greg would read
some Twitter feedback about an episode or a storyline, and
it did affect things going forward. Give Me my Remote,
(34:24):
I think, was a website to where give me my
Remote yeah, all of the stuff. Yes, the idea of
these bloggers. We had a bunch of fan sites. We
had Office Tally dot com run by Jenny Tan and
this gal, Jenny did such a good job of running
this website that she would we would invite her to
visit the set and give her exclusives and things. And
(34:47):
then there was Northern Attack that was based on that
line from Diversity Day as Abraham Lincoln said, I will
attack you with the north Northern Attack. I love northern,
so give me my remote Northern Attack. All of these
TV websites and bloggers people started blogging about us, and
we were cool, right, like, oh no, totally yeah, And
(35:10):
so this was happening for the part of something. Yeah,
you were part of something. You were part of a
movement in a way, and and our show was part
of that movement. I think, all right, we're gonna pause
(35:34):
there for now, but we are going to be back
with more. Jenna, Oh my gosh, it's so good. It's
so good. I'm gonna make you wait for it until then.
Thank you for listening, all of you, and have have
a fantastic week. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and
(36:01):
executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer
Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer, our associate
producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor is Diego Tapia.
My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. Our
theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend
(36:22):
Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by seth Olansky
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