May 18, 2021 • 44 mins
Kate Flannery, who you may know as Meredith Palmer, stumbles into this week’s episode to talk all things The Office with Brian. They discuss the origins of her character, how she was a 40 year old waitress when Steve was a 40 year old virgin, and, of course, boobs.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, I'm Kate Flannery and I played Meredith Palmer on
the Office. Hello everyone, and welcome to the Office. Deep
dive with me. That's right, your host Brian Baumgartner. On
today's show, we have the incredible Kate Flannery. As you
(00:31):
just heard now. I have always felt a special bond
with Kate because I think more than anyone else in
the cast, Kate and I we put our bodies on
the line for the show. I mean just in terms
of pure physical comedy and like shameless personal humiliation. I
(00:55):
think Kate and I deserve medals for bravery and and
maybe Kate most of all, she was just completely fearless
and she was always up for anything she was asked
to do. In fact, the last time I saw Kate
before we sat down for this conversation, I went to
(01:17):
see Kate uh in a taping for Dancing with the
Stars that Kate was a contestant on, and she asked
me to come see her perform, and I went. And
let me be honest, it's kind of a weird experience.
You're in this giant warehouse, there are assistants moving around everywhere,
(01:39):
There's applause signs telling you when to laugh, and went
to clap, and went to stand and went to sit
and and then all of a sudden, the music starts
and Kate literally descends from the ceiling because she's doing
this Mary Poppins number. She's Mary Poppins. And I see
her descending and I immediately start crying. I'm I am
(02:05):
overcome with emotion because the fearlessness, and let's be honest,
I'm not We're not spring chickens. And she had total
commitment and she was dancing her heart out. But that's
Kate anyway. I did not cry in this interview, but
(02:27):
we did talk about how Kate had to flash her
boobs a lot on the show, so that was the
thing we didn't We didn't cry, but we talked about boobs.
How's that for a setup? Without any more blabbering from me,
here is the woman who bared it all for your entertainment,
Kate Flannery. Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and
(02:54):
squeak on Bubble and Squeaker cooking ever from the nut, Well,
(03:15):
well are good? How are you good? How's it going?
Oh my gosh, awesome? They becked in a box. They
have been locked in a box. This is not our
regular studio. Yes, this I thought was construction, but apparently
it's a folly. Are you gonna make folly sounds? I'm
(03:36):
going to just start running on the grass. You can
recreate the fire drill step right exactly. Um. You can
throw your coat on the thing unless you're cold. What's
up to you? Is she fine? Here on the mic?
Can I talk about people behind their back on this?
You can say whatever you want. UM, So now I
(04:00):
know some of this, but two thousand four, yes, what? Well?
First of all, what was your training exactly? Like? What
were you doing work wise before the office? Well? He
was in Chicago. Right after college. I studied theater UH
in Philadelphia and in Virginia for a couple of years,
and then I UM graduated from the University AUNTS in
(04:21):
phillip And then my aunt sent me a ticket to
check out Chicago and Second City because she thought it
would be a good fit. So I studied a Second
city and then I got hired by the touring company,
so I knew Steve. Steve was in one of the
resident companies when I was touring UM. But then I
moved to New York. I did the year long tour
of the real life Brady Bunch a few years later,
and then moved to New York for six months, and
(04:42):
then got asked to do the show Valley the Dolls
in l a uh. And then I was here for
about a year and then came close to a few
different shows. I was like up for the Data Carvey Show,
which obviously Steve, Steve Coral and Steve Colbert got I
tested for it to get came close, um, and then um,
the show I was doing when off Broadway. So I
went to New York. So I was in New York
for three years. Okay, I'm old five years. So you
(05:07):
were in Chicago in and around Second City for five years,
then went back to New York, then l a then
back to New York for three years. And then when
did you come back to l a uh. I moved
back because I got a new manager, and I was
basically like waiting tables, and then started to do my
comedy act, the Lampshades, and was, you know, just like
(05:27):
doing some guest star stuff. I did Bernie Mac. I
guess Creed was in the same episode that I did
a Bernie Mack. Yeah, he didn't have any lines he
was just like a doctor in the background or something.
I was so funny. And then um, I booked a
recurring gig on Boomtown and my second episode we were
about to shoot and they said that the show got canceled.
So that was that, and then I was I had
(05:47):
auditioned for the pilot of the Office. I was up
for the part of Jan. I read for the part
of Jan, did not get it. Obviously they want a
completely different way. But Allison Jones said that I think
the show was good for you, which was awesome. And
then I just remember like doing my comedy act like Lampshades,
that we were We were supposed to do so many
things and like kind of fell through. We were supposed
to be on Mad TV for four episodes, and I'm
(06:08):
like they canceled when it was a whole lot of
almost And then I remember getting a call that they
were trying to fill a spot after they shot the
pilot in August. You guys shot in February, and in
August I got the call to go in and read
for Allison Jones. And then by the time I got
home from that I found out I got the job.
Because I didn't have a cell phone side away for
my landline to get to message. Okay, so wait, so
(06:30):
you read for jan I do not know? Yeah, yeah
I did, but there would be too much sexual chemistry
between me and Steve if I got that part. She
said she thought she still thought it would be a
good like I love. That's why I love about Allison.
It's like she remembers things. So I somehow registered, you know,
And I remember going to the next audition for what
became Meredith. I don't she was called Meredith at the audition,
(06:53):
but I remember they said no makeup, and like, really,
no makeup. Usually when they say no makeup, it's like
lip gloss and semescara. And also was like really no, no, no, no,
take it off, take it off, take off the lashes. No.
I wasn't very much but yeah interesting. Yeah, so then
you so you came back and at the time, you're
(07:15):
do you remember what the what the description was of
the character just said she was lactose, intolerant, divorced and
had his directed me go light chill, right, Yeah, and
you knew who? Did you know? I knew Angela because
we were in an improv group in All chickenprov group
called Bitch Planet in two thousand in l A. And
(07:37):
I knew Steve because I knew him from from Second
City and also he did the first few months of
the Really Brady Bunch. He was the first Greg Brady
when we used to do that crazy show. Yeah, yeah, crazy,
but there was so much sexual chemistry between me and
see what we could. I'm just kidding, sorry, I mean
he you definitely showed your boobs to him a lot. Yeah.
(08:00):
The first time we shot that Christmas episode, he said,
I'm not looking at them, I'm just gonna stay at
your clavical. I was like, I think, I mean, should
I be insulted by? Might should I feel? But I
don't know what to do. He was such a gentleman
though really I knew he was my best interest at
heart to the end. I um. I have said many
times in terms of just pure comedy and the direction
(08:24):
with McDougall and like everything, that moment with you at
the end might be one of my favorite moments, Oh
my god of no of the of the whole series,
because he's so well directed to and it's so like
just the way that it played. It was such a subtle,
unexpected crazy, so unexpected and you have that like that
(08:45):
like gas band of like oh my gosh. And then
him just the look on his face and picking up
that camera and taking a picture just is so perfect.
And even the moment after we were like he's you know,
he's not going to do anything, Like he's like he's done.
That was it. That's all he wanted was a picture,
which is so fantastic because I feel like so many
(09:06):
other actors would have played that differently, and Steve had
such economy and such brilliant I I mean, I'm sure
you remember this, but I feel like every every you
never knew exactly what he was going to do, and
he could do five different, six different things in different takes,
like completely different with the same words, with the same dialect,
and just be like, make these really amazing, subtle, strong choices,
(09:28):
crazy great. I felt like I was watching someone who thought,
I have to make the people in here laugh, Like
that's what I'm gonna do. And if we rehearse it
and we do this and we do that, like then
everyone's gonna expect exactly. Yes, so great at that. Yeah,
that's that's so well put. Yeah, he definitely had a plan.
(09:48):
He definitely had many many ideas all the time. Oh
my god, I'm such a deadbeat as an actor when
I think. But I think he's really one of those
rare gems. And it's just shocking that he didn't want
an Emmy for that role. Yeah, it's a travesty, but
he's he's not a politician, he's never been, never been so,
(10:09):
and I think some of its politics, which is um,
so you come back in and you are now reading
for Meredith or unnamed misdirected me character and um, did
they show you the pilot? Did you see the pilot?
I saw the pilot later I saw the pilot. Uh yeah,
(10:31):
after you were cast. Yes, okay, did you have any
specific thoughts about it? Well? I was nervous that it
was exactly like the British pilot. I think everybody was nervous.
But I still thought it was funny, and I thought
what they added that was American was really funny. What's
a what's you know? And I thought everyone was much
more understandable than the British fruition. I'm one of those
(10:52):
people that watch Is the British Office with subtitles because
I want to get it all. Is that terrible? No?
It's not terrible. When I walked through life with you,
I need subtitles too, But you're just like Philly, Pennsylvania.
I hard to understand. Sorry. Um, so I heard that
(11:14):
Greg made a conscious decision to stay as close to
the British pilot because he thought if he did, the
network couldn't give no. Wow, brilliant, brilliant. It makes so
much sense. And I remember my brother Chris Hasten, who
I met on the show. He's a still photographer for NBC.
(11:34):
He was shooting the pilot gallery and he was told,
if anybody looks at the camera except for Steve, that's it.
We're done. Like Greg really wanted to look documentary, and
and Chris said there were so many specific instructions because
Greg was so uh protective of making sure to get
this absolutely rights. Thank god. Interesting. Yeah, so even in
(11:59):
the PR shoot, Chris the photographer was directed, yes, which
is never the case, I mean very rarely. There might
be a note or two, but nothing, nothing that's intense.
And Greg was like, just you know, um, very stressed,
stressed out about it. He just wanted to be absolutely right.
Thank goodness. Do you feel like, um, you had any
(12:23):
specific hurdles or anything you had to overcome specifically because
you weren't on the pilot. Well, I wasn't sure if
I was coming back every week. I wasn't sure. I
remember talking to Phillis about it. She goes, I think
you might. I'm like, okay, because I definitely felt like
I was getting stories, um because I I'm allowed to
say that I replaced somebody from the pilot. So I
(12:44):
was getting stories that like, you know, they're going to
see you know, if if this is actually even a place,
like maybe it's you know, maybe this character won't anything exists.
I don't even know. So there was pressure definitely, but
you know, I was like, okay, we'll see I mean,
everybody's nice. And they told I don't remember this. They
told us to bring paperwork, which so the first season
(13:05):
we literally sat at our desks because they wanted us
to really be busy doing real what looked like real
office work. I thought that was so brilliant. Yeah. Do
you think that that did anything to help create the ensemble?
I do, because I feel like everyone had a focus immediately.
You weren't like looking for someone to throw you the ball,
(13:27):
and if you did get the ball, you were busy
doing your work, like that's what people doing a documentary.
I mean, it's so it must be so uncomfortable for
somebody in a regular scrant In Pennsylvania office to have
a camera around, Like that's not a comfort zone. There's
nothing comfortable about that. So I love that that was
part of the mix. And then we we had this
weird medical paperwork that was like they bought, the prop
(13:48):
department bought. So I remember creating these like weird little
patterns of stapling things and like, and I remember Jenna
and I had a whole dance where we would have
these weird clearance papers that we would sign for each other.
It was so bizarre, but it was fantastic, right right,
No one's talked about that before, but yeah, like our
prop papers were essentially old expired medical documents from people's procedures,
(14:14):
like a bunch of the ton of them. They lasted
for years, yes, And I remember doing the same thing
like okay, and I would pull pieces of paper that
looked more like Excel, like like that number right, so
like so like if I had a whole thing that
was mostly writing, I was like, wow, this doesn't really
look right, right, Like I need something that looks like numbers,
(14:36):
and then you would look and it would be like
red blood cell count numbers for Jason Alexander from Wow.
Jason's okay though, everybody, It's ok Yeah. It was a
bizarre This is so pre internet recycling. There you go,
all right, we were doing some brainwork. You're hilarious recycling.
(14:58):
This is true repurposing, messing. A paper company office needs
paper ladies and gentlemen. We were not destroying trees for
this Charlee and show. That's hilarious. And of course you
know Ken koppas directing like go ahead, you never say action,
go ahead. Loved him just but understanding that, like you're
not just suddenly turning on. You're already in You're already
(15:20):
in it. You you're working, so just continue, go ahead.
It's perfect. It's like the perfect direction. We talked to
him about that some too. Yeah, bringing us in early
and having that thirty minutes of like worktime and having
us all there together in that room doing bs paperwork.
You and quiet and very quiet, so quiet, painful subtimes. Yes,
(15:45):
and then you would just hear like John or Leslie
or Phillis, pretend to be honest. Sure, sure. And I
also remember during the healthcare episode that was the first
time I improvised, and the whole thing about the unse
is different from a vagina. I still have a vagina.
Remember Greg telling me I ran in him. I was
still waiting tables during the first season, and I would
(16:08):
see some people from the show at my restaurant and
I would see Ken Kappas sometimes and then I saw
Greg and I wasn't waiting on it, but he came
back because I had to talk to you. I love
that he like completely ignored that I was wearing a
uniforms fantastic. I'm fighting with the network about vagina. I
just really want to keep it in. I'm really hoping
it works out. And I was like, yeah, I mean
(16:28):
like he just can't. He came up to you. So
you're working at Cape Manolini still, which is Beverly Hills
fancy restaurant where every famous person on the planet came in.
So you were there through When did you stop? I
stopped right before we started season two, so literally a
couple of weeks. So I quit my no I covered
my ships during the weekend, and I used to work
(16:50):
my Sunday brunch and then I because we only shot
it was, you know, after the pilot was just five episodes.
So yeah, and then and then I remember Amy Hackerling
came in with their parents, Brian Gordon came, a few
people came in, and they kind of gave me this
look like oh, hi, sorry, I mean they didn't. They
were a little condescending or a little too sympathetic. I
(17:11):
was like, it's fine whatever on the four year old wagress,
I know, I get up steve to the four year
old version, on the four ye old wages whatever. I mean,
it is what it is, you know. And then when
Greg came in, he completely ignored the fact that I
was wearing like I love him for that so much.
I mean, I'm sure he just was like, oh, but
we got business to attend to. Let's get to it,
you know, so we're you still working there once the
(17:33):
start airing. Yeah, did you have people come up to you?
I did some. Actually, one time someone asked me. They said, hey,
I have a question for you. Are you lactose intolerant?
And I said, yes, thanks for not bringing up my
hystery activation. That was like their way of yeah. And
then I remember, like Marty Panzer who was bart Barry
(17:54):
Maneler's lyricist, was pissed because he said, come in here
on Tuesday nights and you, uh, you're not here. But
everybody nobody was on me because they're all watching the show.
They're all up at the bar watching you, and I
can't get any good service, Like whatever, looks like you
did it? Oh my god, Um, did you did you
(18:21):
think the show would be picked up? I wasn't sure.
And I remember we didn't get invited to the first upfronts,
and I remember thinking like, okay, well, and I think
technically we weren't regular until Bose curz Um. But I
felt like we had a shot. I felt like there
was some vibe something that just felt different from anything
else I'd ever been involved with. It was really intense
(18:44):
and and really great and just half unfolded so wonderfully.
It was like a slow, steady, wonderful rise, which never
happens in this town. And I know that there had
been documentary mockumentary movies like spinal Type and stuff, but
never never a TV show even some of the mocumentary stuff,
(19:05):
Like I feel like our show is up with the
very best. I mean, I really feel that way even
all nine seasons, Like there's things where you just go yes, yes,
(19:35):
so the office. You know, I want to tell you
I have this sort of theory that part of the
specialness not sure it's a word, specialness or uniqueness of
the ensemble had to do with, you know, how attractive
we all were, how completely fucking sexy we were. No,
(19:56):
but that was new, you know that was a new thing,
you know. I mean that was definitely a concept is
we were not supposed to be attracted. And I felt
like I held that mantel pretty well all nine years.
I just have to say. Some people ask for a
little more makeup. I was like, nope, I'm sticking with
the game, sticking with it. Love it, lived it, living it,
love it. And my boyfriend used to say, I look
better taking out the trash and I did on the show,
and which is fine with me. I'm really I'm it's fine,
(20:18):
you know, And now I know I'm not looking so good.
People go, you look exactly like you did on the show.
Compliment and a dig I'll take it all. Um, I
you know we're in the same um space. But you
had you and Steve and Angela and Oscar who you
(20:40):
were great improblems and Rain and I we were doing
check off right, and then you had b J and
and Craig doing stand up right. Sure, so true, and
you know I love the way you broke down. And um,
were you in the Seagull or Three Sisters? When you
rang three sisters? Three sisters? We did three Sisters together.
(21:02):
I also did the Seagull I was at in college.
I think I was in the Three Sisters at least
twice from once with Rain. Um, but yeah, I know
it's crazy, that's so, that's so right on. I mean
truly like I was doing the darkest of darkest, yes,
(21:23):
and it was no. I used to always say that
I was in a drama. I used to say that
to Greg, and actually he said that to me once.
He goes, this isn't a drama, and I was like,
it is for me. It is like right, Um, you
are the only person from Pennsylvania. Yeah, Zach Woods is too,
he's from he's in Bucks County, but he came along later.
(21:45):
So I was the one always bitching to get tasty
cakes into the vending machines because there's no there really
is no vending machine in Pennsylvania that does not have
tasty cakes, and we eventually did, but it was very brief.
That's all right, mission accomplished. They were too expensive. I
don't know, I'm not sure to be um, what do
you think about setting the show specifically in Scranton, Pennsylvania,
(22:06):
so goes along with Slough, England, which is this kind
of forgettable town that had a glory day. But I mean,
growing up in Philadelphia, Scranton was a joke, so it
was always the butt of many jokes. I think what
Greg did was he got very very specific and used
contradictory ideas that you don't see in television, like there's
(22:31):
the big dumb guy Kevin, but he's really good at
basketball and he's a poker savant. But Meredith as well,
like the ways that she was very specific. Yes, yes,
and sometimes I didn't always like every one. While I
remember improvising and feeling like I'm not sure if this
is gonna work whatever. I felt like season three was
(22:51):
a little bit of a struggle. I felt like I
got I mean, or there was a little more trial
and error or something, and that I feel like once
we got to season four, once I got hit by
the car in the fun run, episode was like we're
off to the races. But season three, I feel like
I was particularly cut out a lot, and I felt
like some of it was like we were trying for
things that didn't quite hit um. And some of that
(23:12):
might may have just been me not getting it, but
I was. I was a little bit like, oh my gosh,
I I hope we you know, I hope we find something,
you know suddenly, and boy did we. But just kind
of like understanding, like another layer of like, oh, she's
she's a mess, but she's also not a victim, and
she's not she's not as involved, but in a in
a very conscious way, she's not excluded. She just wants
(23:35):
to stay in her life, like literally, like she doesn't
want to get involved with I don't know. I've had
women come up to me and be like, oh my god,
I'm the Meredith of my office, and and it's not
just because they're like a drinker, because they usually are
and they're loud and proud, so I totally believe them,
like only a Meredith would be like a Meredith. Wow.
You know. It's like that to me is like the
(23:56):
ultimate compliment. It's fantastic. You know, my dad into bar.
I don't know if you knew this, but so I'm
a bar inner's daughter. You remember that Halloween episode, the
first Halloween episode that was supposed to be when it
was revealed that Meredith was a drinker and the whole
thing got cut, And remember Paul Fieg was like, I'm
so sorry. The network just wanted more of Michael Scott
handing candy to the kids from his new condom and like, uh, anyway,
(24:19):
my dad on a bar and my dad understood the
complexities of alcoholics too, and some of them were extremely
functional in some ways and charming and others and then
blow it and then get get back you know, really
mess up their life and then get it back together.
You know, there's little elements. I feel like there were subtle,
subtle things that kept showing up, like Meredith's relationship with
her son Jakie and you know, bring your daughter to
(24:40):
work day, Meredith brings her son, uh, who's a nightmare
and calls Michael Scott Mr poop so good so but
again like and and Meredith's ever forgiving and she's not
like a mean mom, She's she's a little indulgent, you know,
which again, like I don't know if that would have
been my first choice, but I totally respect it. I
(25:01):
get it. I see that in other people and I think,
oh my god, the writing was so great, Like they
really did not need my help, right. I think you
touched on something that I never really thought about before.
But you have a lot of kind of wonderful moments
with Michael Scott, like specifically with him. You know, there's
(25:24):
obviously the Christmas episode where you know, you flash him
for the first time. Um, but yeah, fun run when
he hits you with the car, break your pelvis. There's
a very tender moment at the end of that that
episode when you hear what he's done for you. Yeah.
It's interesting to me that Meredith functions kind of sol
(25:47):
in the in the group of an Ian. This has
never occurred to me before. But you know, that sort
of iconic shot of you playing Solitaire on the computer, like,
there's some connection to that, and you weren't by and large,
you weren't going over and hanging out at sales or
coming over to the account, which I think gave your
(26:09):
character an opportunity to do a lot of special things.
And obviously you being gifted physically as well well. It's
fun to get to do the physical comedy. And I
was thinking, you know, the the Valentine episode, the first
Valentine episode season two, when Phyllis is getting all these
gifts and Pam is really upset, and you just seem,
you know, Meredith with their big olpen and then we
find out that she's drinking and then she's passed out
(26:29):
with a line in her hair. I mean that to
me was like, what a perfect, perfect little just just
perfect enough. We get it, We've been there, we know that.
I mean again, there's so many layers and it's just
I don't know, I just feel so um, it's just
so fortunate to be a part of something that I
(26:50):
think always have a respect level that most other TV
shows don't have. I really don't. How do you feel
like Kate influenced Meredith? Um? I think I will. For one,
I was always willing to do most of my own stunts,
and for me, that made it more fun. I felt
I felt like I was really experiencing more that makes
(27:11):
any sense. Um. And and I also think that audience
knows sometimes when you know there's you know, I don't
if you guys used to watch The Bionic Woman but
there was always like some six foot guy in a
blonde wig pretending to be Jamie Summers, like so bad,
But yeah, I just it made me feel a little
more part of the process, and I felt like it
was one of my strengths that I really enjoyed it.
So when I was planking in the men's room and
(27:33):
Dwight comes and blows me off the top of the
stall with the fire extinguisher, that was me. So you know,
you didn't you didn't do one thing, though, Uh, there's
a couple of things I didn't do. I did. I
didn't get my hair on fire, and did not light
my hair on fire. When I heard that there was
like face gel involved, I was like, I don't know
if I wanted. I didn't shake my hand, I did not. Yeah,
(27:57):
good for you. I think I disappointed Greg, but really
he was shocked. He was like really, I'm like, I'm sorry,
but no, my hair is my thing. What I um? Well,
actually leading into that, do you there was so much
sexual stuff with Meredith. Yea. My parents were so happy
(28:17):
about that. My dad's so Catholic. He was like, oh,
what is going on? Do you when people say that
we couldn't do the show today. Do you think that
do you think that's a part of it. I was
reminded doing the research about you selling sex for steak, Yeah,
for steak coupons? Yeah yeah, yeah. But she was contrite,
(28:41):
she admitted it, and she was asking for forgiveness, right,
there's got to be I mean, there's some conscience in that,
which is funny and sad. I mean, that's that's the
best thing about The Office, is that it's the funny
and sad. Right. Um, there was a time I thought
Kevin and Mereth might we did kiss that one time?
(29:02):
You remember that? I didn't make it on the air.
I can't. I don't remember now. What was it? What
was the context like that? I know, I can't remember.
It was at my desk? You know? Why did we
do that? Was it? Was it a party? I remember
it was like a test, Like I remember. I think
about it every night. I just can't remember so much
sexual attention between you and I. Oh my gosh, what
(29:25):
was it? I can't remember. Shoot, I'm not sure. Oh
my gosh. I felt like they toyed. I felt like
the writer's toyed with it for a memure. Yes they did.
I do remember this a little bit. And I think
it was before the Valentine episode when Kevin was looking
for a girlfriend. Okay, I think it was before that.
It was to be explored. That's so fun. I forgot
that we're not lives. We can't have a fan phone in,
(29:47):
we can't answer damn. Um. Yeah, I'm gonna have to
I'm gonna have to think about it. I don't know
that it aired that. It may not have. It may
not have. Was that tough for you though? The getting
naked part of it was a little like ship but
it's a little like jumping out of an airplane. And
I will tell you, as great as you know Randal
and Matt were, I always felt like I didn't get much.
(30:10):
I kind that lunch after we shot me pick upless.
It was a little uncomfortable. And I think the last season,
season nine, there was an episode where we're watching parts
of the documentary at Oscar's desk in a scene and
I would have like a little bit of moleskin and
it fell and Ed's like, whoa, wha, whoa, we have
to stop. He was like, we could really see your boob.
I'm like, oh no, I had no idea. I was
(30:31):
so embarrassed. Oh I forgot about that. Yeah. No, but
you were so fearless in both the physicality that you
did and the pranks that you did. I feel like
you and I had did a lot of really bad
(30:51):
I remember the one what you wouldn't think about it
like watching the show. But we were loading boxes. We
were the warehouse was gone, right, and there was like
oil on the on the warehouse floor and we're like
pushing boxes like that was our idea to be more
efficient was to push boxes. And they just kept having
me ball and I'm like, guys, this is concorde, Like
(31:15):
this is not like there's no padding, there's no there. Yeah.
I think that was I think the hardest one for weirdly,
but you wouldn't think it, right, No, no, no, but
it's those little things because you're not padded and no,
I totally no. There was no safety meeting about it before,
like seriously, like there's a reason why they used to
do that stuff because you don't want to get hurt. Well,
(31:36):
me holding you on my back, oh my god, with
the that was intense. That's that's one of those things
that's like what drugs was someone on who came up
with that idea that Meredith strapped on Kevin's back crazy
make the idiots perform like monkeys. What do you remember
(32:15):
about finding out that Steve was leaving U. I literally
was with Creed. We were on the side of the
office doing like a satellite press junket um and we
and they had announced it that morning, so every venue
wanted to talk about it, and I was like, wow,
(32:38):
because of course it was emotional. I mean, who are
we We're not I mean Michael Scott. You know, Michael
Scott is thunder reveling, he is the office. Um. Yeah,
I was so freaked out. And literally I told Creed,
I'm like, okay, anytime they talk about this, just just
pretend like we can't hear the feet, like I think
the feed's going. I'm sorry, I'm getting some interference. What
was the question? Wishing him all the best? Like we
(32:59):
had the little thing where we would figure out how
to get out of the conversation. So but I was
I was definitely freaked out. And I mean, the great thing,
the great thing about our show is that I feel
like Greg Daniels is so trustworthy, and I feel like
he's picked so many great writers, and I feel like,
if anything could have survived a couple more years without
step Growl, it was because of Greg Daniels. But I
(33:22):
was nervous. I was, and I was nervous about Spader
um just because he's not a comedy guy. And he's brilliant,
but he's not a comedy guy. And I kind of
had this little thing like, oh no, he's holding the baby.
He's gonna drop the baby. Don't drop the baby. And
also I was intimidated because he's he's like a movie
star and I had seen so many all of his movies,
and you know, and there was so much sexual tension
(33:43):
between the two of us, so much, so much, but
I felt like there was sexual tension between me and Spade.
They're they're probably even more even more seriously, Spader, he
liked anyone there is sexual um. The season eight Christmas episode,
(34:03):
there was one take where he's sort of like Meredith
thinks she's actually made me gonna go to dinner with
em or something like that, she's got a chance with him,
and he sort of touches her cheeks like no, no, no,
and she goes to hug me, and I literally one take,
I grabbed his ass and then I was like immediately
when we stopped, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm
so sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I just felt like,
oh my god, he goes, No, he goes. That was
(34:25):
the right thing to do. End up using it, but
I was like, I don't grab James Spader's ask Kate
what them. I was so nervous. I was like, oh no,
oh no, oh no, he's amazing, amazing. Yeah. Pool party
supposedly at Robert California's house. That was the hardest episode
(34:48):
for me to do. Wow, I was in the pool
a really that's really really long time. And it was
one of the hardest for me because I had to
be in a bathing suit on camera in my forties
dream not and you think, like, you're in a pool,
why are you complaining? But like because of like hypothermia.
They had it, but it was gross. It was heated,
(35:11):
but it was indoors. So it was kind of like
an old holiday in that you can swim in that's hot,
and then you're in it for like in a day,
maybe nine hours in the water. Yeah. Yeah, and you
guys were doing those chicken fights with with on your shoulder. Yeah,
Oh my god. That was crazy. Again, the sexual tension
(35:31):
was off the charts. Um, so we had how important
it was, you know, for the pilot specifically, um, but
then the guest casting after that, to not have any stars, yes,
to keep it as unknown people. Yes. Yeah. And I
remember even Carol Burnett at the TC as she said
she she loved our show during her speech and she
wanted to be involved. And I think they were like, Nope,
(35:52):
too famous, too funny, too much. Yes, that's right, that
was an idea. But yeah, but then you know, of course, um,
Kathy Bates, come on, Cathy Bates Spader. Yeah. Well I
loved working with Will so fun Oh my god, just
the greatest. He had remembered. We had had dinner literally
(36:13):
in like four uh in New York when he first
got hired on S and L with Andy Richter, and
I was like, I couldn't believe that he remembered. And
I remember being embarrassed because I had a really embarrassing
ex boyfriend who was a real douche bag. He's like,
I felt really intimidated because all you guys were from Chicago,
and I felt like you guys were like so great
(36:34):
at while I was like, what is so crazy anyway,
but I love I love love Wolfore that's bad. Uh.
My story similar to that was Kathy Bates went to
s M. Uh she was there before me, but while
I was there, she had already won the oscar and
she came back to like they opened a new theater
(36:55):
and my mom got a book of Shakespeare's sonnets sent
it to Kathy Bates, told her that I was a
really big fan, and I went to s M. You
and I did this show and got it. I believe
the only autographed item that I have of anyone that
I can recall, like to Brian, you know, good luck
(37:15):
in your future, blah blah blah. Kathy Bates. So I
hear she's going to be on the show, And now
here we are and we're in the makeup trailer, and
I came up behind her and I said, I wanted, Kathy,
I want to show you. It wasn't her first day,
so I did not want to seem like a crazy stalker,
but I came up behind her and I said, you know,
I just want to show you that my mom. And
of course I wasn't expecting her to remember I'm sure
(37:36):
she's signed you know a lot of things just to say, like,
how crazy is this that my mom did this? I
know crazy, Oh my gosh, that's awesome. She then had
me arrested, but she had me arrested too. That's just
a little fun thing we used to do with get
people arrested. Um. What do you remember about going in
(38:03):
to shoot the finale? Um? I remember trying to be
as present as possible and just to try to enjoy
all of it because it was such a great ending.
And um, and then I remember Greg just saying one
more take, one more take, how about this? How about this?
I remember we were all two hours late for our
own rap party that people were texting and calling like
(38:26):
where are you? Like, just like, no one wanted to end.
No one wanted to end. There's so few moments like
that in this business where you can actually feel the
emotional part of the joy that all those years represented,
and the way all of our lives changed, and the
(38:46):
way that it the show continues to speak to people,
and like people feel so connected and they feel so comfortable.
It's so rare. I mean, really, I I make jokes
like if I got hit by a car tomorrow, for real,
I'd be fine, Like like it was, this was such
an amazing chapter, you know, and so few actors get this,
(39:07):
so few actors. It's it's, uh, it's really an honor.
Why do you think that young people have connected to
the show. Why is the show more popular now than
it was? To two reasons. The most basic reason is
that being in an office like dunder Mifflin with one
big room with all the offices, it's much like being
(39:29):
in a classroom, and Michael Scott is like he's the boss,
but he's like the teacher. I mean, I think kids
can always relate to having to sit next to someone
that they didn't necessarily pick, but they're kind of stuck
with for years. And also I think the show is
so smart. There's so many subtle things. You can watch
it a million times and see different things that you
didn't see before that you weren't paying attention, Like you
can notice different things. There's so many Easter eggs and
(39:51):
like weird little things that just kind of keeping. And
some of it's like stuff that got cut, like I
don't remember the weight loss episode, where like people still
have questions about like Meredith's skin, because there's a whole
storyline where Meredith got sun poisoned on a fishing boat,
and um, it got worse and worse as a week
went on, and it never got explained. And I remember
Steve was like he thought it was so brilliant that
(40:12):
they just didn't worry about explaining it, because how many
times you work with people that you're not that close
to and like something's going on. You're like, I don't
even want to know what's going on with it, you
know what I mean, Like not even And also like
skin is like a weird personal things, so you would
be like, what's wrong with your skin? No one would do,
you know. So it's like this kind of wonderful thing.
It's just we're just kind of existing as as a
(40:34):
real documentary would happen, where some things are not explained.
And I feel like kids are so smart, and I
feel like they feel like they're smarter maybe than their
parents by the way that they notice the office in
a way that maybe people have been watching very typical
sitcoms for years don't don't necessarily plug into immediately. I
feel like they're not as tainted by that. I don't know,
(40:55):
that's just a thought. Yeah, No, I I think you're right. No,
that's great. Um alright. Last question, hardest question. What does
the office mean to you? The office means joy, validation, success, um, love, fun,
(41:25):
great process and probably the best part of my life.
I knew you were going to say, well before you
set it, I know, I almost set it for you,
and I was like, nope, that's find it. Yeah, oh yeah, Kate,
thank you so much, Thank you so much. I'm so
(41:45):
glad we could get drunk like this. This is awesome.
This coffee has you have no idea what's in it? Actually,
no clue? Um, so awesome. I always loved watching your
process too. I have to say this because I always
felt like you you had You just had certain instincts
that like just I feel like you were such a
co creator and Kevin, like just in your not speaking
(42:08):
as well, but like there would be things that you
would just it was you. You were fearless and really amazing,
and I feel like, yes, the writing is amazing, but
I feel like no one else could do what you did.
No one. Well, thank you all right, everyone, that is
(42:38):
all for the one and only Kate Flannery. Kate, I
know you called me fearless there, but you are the
fearless one. I admire you so much and I cannot
wait to get absolutely wasted with you again soon. And
you know what, same to all your listeners out there.
(43:00):
Let's do it sometime, as long as you're of age,
of course, But until then, please join me back here
next week for another interview. I need to go fill
up this coffee cump the office. Deep Dive is hosted
(43:23):
and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive
producer Langley. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer, our producer
is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor is die Go Tapia.
My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. Our
theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend
(43:43):
Cree Bratton, and the episode was mixed by seth Olansky
Hi, I'm Kate Flannery and I played Meredith Palmer on
the Office. Hello everyone, and welcome to the Office. Deep
dive with me. That's right, your host Brian Baumgartner. On
today's show, we have the incredible Kate Flannery. As you
(00:31):
just heard now. I have always felt a special bond
with Kate because I think more than anyone else in
the cast, Kate and I we put our bodies on
the line for the show. I mean just in terms
of pure physical comedy and like shameless personal humiliation. I
(00:55):
think Kate and I deserve medals for bravery and and
maybe Kate most of all, she was just completely fearless
and she was always up for anything she was asked
to do. In fact, the last time I saw Kate
before we sat down for this conversation, I went to
(01:17):
see Kate uh in a taping for Dancing with the
Stars that Kate was a contestant on, and she asked
me to come see her perform, and I went. And
let me be honest, it's kind of a weird experience.
You're in this giant warehouse, there are assistants moving around everywhere,
(01:39):
There's applause signs telling you when to laugh, and went
to clap, and went to stand and went to sit
and and then all of a sudden, the music starts
and Kate literally descends from the ceiling because she's doing
this Mary Poppins number. She's Mary Poppins. And I see
her descending and I immediately start crying. I'm I am
(02:05):
overcome with emotion because the fearlessness, and let's be honest,
I'm not We're not spring chickens. And she had total
commitment and she was dancing her heart out. But that's
Kate anyway. I did not cry in this interview, but
(02:27):
we did talk about how Kate had to flash her
boobs a lot on the show, so that was the
thing we didn't We didn't cry, but we talked about boobs.
How's that for a setup? Without any more blabbering from me,
here is the woman who bared it all for your entertainment,
Kate Flannery. Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and
(02:54):
squeak on Bubble and Squeaker cooking ever from the nut, Well,
(03:15):
well are good? How are you good? How's it going?
Oh my gosh, awesome? They becked in a box. They
have been locked in a box. This is not our
regular studio. Yes, this I thought was construction, but apparently
it's a folly. Are you gonna make folly sounds? I'm
(03:36):
going to just start running on the grass. You can
recreate the fire drill step right exactly. Um. You can
throw your coat on the thing unless you're cold. What's
up to you? Is she fine? Here on the mic?
Can I talk about people behind their back on this?
You can say whatever you want. UM, So now I
(04:00):
know some of this, but two thousand four, yes, what? Well?
First of all, what was your training exactly? Like? What
were you doing work wise before the office? Well? He
was in Chicago. Right after college. I studied theater UH
in Philadelphia and in Virginia for a couple of years,
and then I UM graduated from the University AUNTS in
(04:21):
phillip And then my aunt sent me a ticket to
check out Chicago and Second City because she thought it
would be a good fit. So I studied a Second
city and then I got hired by the touring company,
so I knew Steve. Steve was in one of the
resident companies when I was touring UM. But then I
moved to New York. I did the year long tour
of the real life Brady Bunch a few years later,
and then moved to New York for six months, and
(04:42):
then got asked to do the show Valley the Dolls
in l a uh. And then I was here for
about a year and then came close to a few
different shows. I was like up for the Data Carvey Show,
which obviously Steve, Steve Coral and Steve Colbert got I
tested for it to get came close, um, and then um,
the show I was doing when off Broadway. So I
went to New York. So I was in New York
for three years. Okay, I'm old five years. So you
(05:07):
were in Chicago in and around Second City for five years,
then went back to New York, then l a then
back to New York for three years. And then when
did you come back to l a uh. I moved
back because I got a new manager, and I was
basically like waiting tables, and then started to do my
comedy act, the Lampshades, and was, you know, just like
(05:27):
doing some guest star stuff. I did Bernie Mac. I
guess Creed was in the same episode that I did
a Bernie Mack. Yeah, he didn't have any lines he
was just like a doctor in the background or something.
I was so funny. And then um, I booked a
recurring gig on Boomtown and my second episode we were
about to shoot and they said that the show got canceled.
So that was that, and then I was I had
(05:47):
auditioned for the pilot of the Office. I was up
for the part of Jan. I read for the part
of Jan, did not get it. Obviously they want a
completely different way. But Allison Jones said that I think
the show was good for you, which was awesome. And
then I just remember like doing my comedy act like Lampshades,
that we were We were supposed to do so many
things and like kind of fell through. We were supposed
to be on Mad TV for four episodes, and I'm
(06:08):
like they canceled when it was a whole lot of
almost And then I remember getting a call that they
were trying to fill a spot after they shot the
pilot in August. You guys shot in February, and in
August I got the call to go in and read
for Allison Jones. And then by the time I got
home from that I found out I got the job.
Because I didn't have a cell phone side away for
my landline to get to message. Okay, so wait, so
(06:30):
you read for jan I do not know? Yeah, yeah
I did, but there would be too much sexual chemistry
between me and Steve if I got that part. She
said she thought she still thought it would be a
good like I love. That's why I love about Allison.
It's like she remembers things. So I somehow registered, you know,
And I remember going to the next audition for what
became Meredith. I don't she was called Meredith at the audition,
(06:53):
but I remember they said no makeup, and like, really,
no makeup. Usually when they say no makeup, it's like
lip gloss and semescara. And also was like really no, no, no, no,
take it off, take it off, take off the lashes. No.
I wasn't very much but yeah interesting. Yeah, so then
you so you came back and at the time, you're
(07:15):
do you remember what the what the description was of
the character just said she was lactose, intolerant, divorced and
had his directed me go light chill, right, Yeah, and
you knew who? Did you know? I knew Angela because
we were in an improv group in All chickenprov group
called Bitch Planet in two thousand in l A. And
(07:37):
I knew Steve because I knew him from from Second
City and also he did the first few months of
the Really Brady Bunch. He was the first Greg Brady
when we used to do that crazy show. Yeah, yeah, crazy,
but there was so much sexual chemistry between me and
see what we could. I'm just kidding, sorry, I mean
he you definitely showed your boobs to him a lot. Yeah.
(08:00):
The first time we shot that Christmas episode, he said,
I'm not looking at them, I'm just gonna stay at
your clavical. I was like, I think, I mean, should
I be insulted by? Might should I feel? But I
don't know what to do. He was such a gentleman
though really I knew he was my best interest at
heart to the end. I um. I have said many
times in terms of just pure comedy and the direction
(08:24):
with McDougall and like everything, that moment with you at
the end might be one of my favorite moments, Oh
my god of no of the of the whole series,
because he's so well directed to and it's so like
just the way that it played. It was such a subtle,
unexpected crazy, so unexpected and you have that like that
(08:45):
like gas band of like oh my gosh. And then
him just the look on his face and picking up
that camera and taking a picture just is so perfect.
And even the moment after we were like he's you know,
he's not going to do anything, Like he's like he's done.
That was it. That's all he wanted was a picture,
which is so fantastic because I feel like so many
(09:06):
other actors would have played that differently, and Steve had
such economy and such brilliant I I mean, I'm sure
you remember this, but I feel like every every you
never knew exactly what he was going to do, and
he could do five different, six different things in different takes,
like completely different with the same words, with the same dialect,
and just be like, make these really amazing, subtle, strong choices,
(09:28):
crazy great. I felt like I was watching someone who thought,
I have to make the people in here laugh, Like
that's what I'm gonna do. And if we rehearse it
and we do this and we do that, like then
everyone's gonna expect exactly. Yes, so great at that. Yeah,
that's that's so well put. Yeah, he definitely had a plan.
(09:48):
He definitely had many many ideas all the time. Oh
my god, I'm such a deadbeat as an actor when
I think. But I think he's really one of those
rare gems. And it's just shocking that he didn't want
an Emmy for that role. Yeah, it's a travesty, but
he's he's not a politician, he's never been, never been so,
(10:09):
and I think some of its politics, which is um,
so you come back in and you are now reading
for Meredith or unnamed misdirected me character and um, did
they show you the pilot? Did you see the pilot?
I saw the pilot later I saw the pilot. Uh yeah,
(10:31):
after you were cast. Yes, okay, did you have any
specific thoughts about it? Well? I was nervous that it
was exactly like the British pilot. I think everybody was nervous.
But I still thought it was funny, and I thought
what they added that was American was really funny. What's
a what's you know? And I thought everyone was much
more understandable than the British fruition. I'm one of those
(10:52):
people that watch Is the British Office with subtitles because
I want to get it all. Is that terrible? No?
It's not terrible. When I walked through life with you,
I need subtitles too, But you're just like Philly, Pennsylvania.
I hard to understand. Sorry. Um, so I heard that
(11:14):
Greg made a conscious decision to stay as close to
the British pilot because he thought if he did, the
network couldn't give no. Wow, brilliant, brilliant. It makes so
much sense. And I remember my brother Chris Hasten, who
I met on the show. He's a still photographer for NBC.
(11:34):
He was shooting the pilot gallery and he was told,
if anybody looks at the camera except for Steve, that's it.
We're done. Like Greg really wanted to look documentary, and
and Chris said there were so many specific instructions because
Greg was so uh protective of making sure to get
this absolutely rights. Thank god. Interesting. Yeah, so even in
(11:59):
the PR shoot, Chris the photographer was directed, yes, which
is never the case, I mean very rarely. There might
be a note or two, but nothing, nothing that's intense.
And Greg was like, just you know, um, very stressed,
stressed out about it. He just wanted to be absolutely right.
Thank goodness. Do you feel like, um, you had any
(12:23):
specific hurdles or anything you had to overcome specifically because
you weren't on the pilot. Well, I wasn't sure if
I was coming back every week. I wasn't sure. I
remember talking to Phillis about it. She goes, I think
you might. I'm like, okay, because I definitely felt like
I was getting stories, um because I I'm allowed to
say that I replaced somebody from the pilot. So I
(12:44):
was getting stories that like, you know, they're going to
see you know, if if this is actually even a place,
like maybe it's you know, maybe this character won't anything exists.
I don't even know. So there was pressure definitely, but
you know, I was like, okay, we'll see I mean,
everybody's nice. And they told I don't remember this. They
told us to bring paperwork, which so the first season
(13:05):
we literally sat at our desks because they wanted us
to really be busy doing real what looked like real
office work. I thought that was so brilliant. Yeah. Do
you think that that did anything to help create the ensemble?
I do, because I feel like everyone had a focus immediately.
You weren't like looking for someone to throw you the ball,
(13:27):
and if you did get the ball, you were busy
doing your work, like that's what people doing a documentary.
I mean, it's so it must be so uncomfortable for
somebody in a regular scrant In Pennsylvania office to have
a camera around, Like that's not a comfort zone. There's
nothing comfortable about that. So I love that that was
part of the mix. And then we we had this
weird medical paperwork that was like they bought, the prop
(13:48):
department bought. So I remember creating these like weird little
patterns of stapling things and like, and I remember Jenna
and I had a whole dance where we would have
these weird clearance papers that we would sign for each other.
It was so bizarre, but it was fantastic, right right,
No one's talked about that before, but yeah, like our
prop papers were essentially old expired medical documents from people's procedures,
(14:14):
like a bunch of the ton of them. They lasted
for years, yes, And I remember doing the same thing
like okay, and I would pull pieces of paper that
looked more like Excel, like like that number right, so
like so like if I had a whole thing that
was mostly writing, I was like, wow, this doesn't really
look right, right, Like I need something that looks like numbers,
(14:36):
and then you would look and it would be like
red blood cell count numbers for Jason Alexander from Wow.
Jason's okay though, everybody, It's ok Yeah. It was a
bizarre This is so pre internet recycling. There you go,
all right, we were doing some brainwork. You're hilarious recycling.
(14:58):
This is true repurposing, messing. A paper company office needs
paper ladies and gentlemen. We were not destroying trees for
this Charlee and show. That's hilarious. And of course you
know Ken koppas directing like go ahead, you never say action,
go ahead. Loved him just but understanding that, like you're
not just suddenly turning on. You're already in You're already
(15:20):
in it. You you're working, so just continue, go ahead.
It's perfect. It's like the perfect direction. We talked to
him about that some too. Yeah, bringing us in early
and having that thirty minutes of like worktime and having
us all there together in that room doing bs paperwork.
You and quiet and very quiet, so quiet, painful subtimes. Yes,
(15:45):
and then you would just hear like John or Leslie
or Phillis, pretend to be honest. Sure, sure. And I
also remember during the healthcare episode that was the first
time I improvised, and the whole thing about the unse
is different from a vagina. I still have a vagina.
Remember Greg telling me I ran in him. I was
still waiting tables during the first season, and I would
(16:08):
see some people from the show at my restaurant and
I would see Ken Kappas sometimes and then I saw
Greg and I wasn't waiting on it, but he came
back because I had to talk to you. I love
that he like completely ignored that I was wearing a
uniforms fantastic. I'm fighting with the network about vagina. I
just really want to keep it in. I'm really hoping
it works out. And I was like, yeah, I mean
(16:28):
like he just can't. He came up to you. So
you're working at Cape Manolini still, which is Beverly Hills
fancy restaurant where every famous person on the planet came in.
So you were there through When did you stop? I
stopped right before we started season two, so literally a
couple of weeks. So I quit my no I covered
my ships during the weekend, and I used to work
(16:50):
my Sunday brunch and then I because we only shot
it was, you know, after the pilot was just five episodes.
So yeah, and then and then I remember Amy Hackerling
came in with their parents, Brian Gordon came, a few
people came in, and they kind of gave me this
look like oh, hi, sorry, I mean they didn't. They
were a little condescending or a little too sympathetic. I
(17:11):
was like, it's fine whatever on the four year old wagress,
I know, I get up steve to the four year
old version, on the four ye old wages whatever. I mean,
it is what it is, you know. And then when
Greg came in, he completely ignored the fact that I
was wearing like I love him for that so much.
I mean, I'm sure he just was like, oh, but
we got business to attend to. Let's get to it,
you know, so we're you still working there once the
(17:33):
start airing. Yeah, did you have people come up to you?
I did some. Actually, one time someone asked me. They said, hey,
I have a question for you. Are you lactose intolerant?
And I said, yes, thanks for not bringing up my
hystery activation. That was like their way of yeah. And
then I remember, like Marty Panzer who was bart Barry
(17:54):
Maneler's lyricist, was pissed because he said, come in here
on Tuesday nights and you, uh, you're not here. But
everybody nobody was on me because they're all watching the show.
They're all up at the bar watching you, and I
can't get any good service, Like whatever, looks like you
did it? Oh my god, Um, did you did you
(18:21):
think the show would be picked up? I wasn't sure.
And I remember we didn't get invited to the first upfronts,
and I remember thinking like, okay, well, and I think
technically we weren't regular until Bose curz Um. But I
felt like we had a shot. I felt like there
was some vibe something that just felt different from anything
else I'd ever been involved with. It was really intense
(18:44):
and and really great and just half unfolded so wonderfully.
It was like a slow, steady, wonderful rise, which never
happens in this town. And I know that there had
been documentary mockumentary movies like spinal Type and stuff, but
never never a TV show even some of the mocumentary stuff,
(19:05):
Like I feel like our show is up with the
very best. I mean, I really feel that way even
all nine seasons, Like there's things where you just go yes, yes,
(19:35):
so the office. You know, I want to tell you
I have this sort of theory that part of the
specialness not sure it's a word, specialness or uniqueness of
the ensemble had to do with, you know, how attractive
we all were, how completely fucking sexy we were. No,
(19:56):
but that was new, you know that was a new thing,
you know. I mean that was definitely a concept is
we were not supposed to be attracted. And I felt
like I held that mantel pretty well all nine years.
I just have to say. Some people ask for a
little more makeup. I was like, nope, I'm sticking with
the game, sticking with it. Love it, lived it, living it,
love it. And my boyfriend used to say, I look
better taking out the trash and I did on the show,
and which is fine with me. I'm really I'm it's fine,
(20:18):
you know, And now I know I'm not looking so good.
People go, you look exactly like you did on the show.
Compliment and a dig I'll take it all. Um, I
you know we're in the same um space. But you
had you and Steve and Angela and Oscar who you
(20:40):
were great improblems and Rain and I we were doing
check off right, and then you had b J and
and Craig doing stand up right. Sure, so true, and
you know I love the way you broke down. And um,
were you in the Seagull or Three Sisters? When you
rang three sisters? Three sisters? We did three Sisters together.
(21:02):
I also did the Seagull I was at in college.
I think I was in the Three Sisters at least
twice from once with Rain. Um, but yeah, I know
it's crazy, that's so, that's so right on. I mean
truly like I was doing the darkest of darkest, yes,
(21:23):
and it was no. I used to always say that
I was in a drama. I used to say that
to Greg, and actually he said that to me once.
He goes, this isn't a drama, and I was like,
it is for me. It is like right, Um, you
are the only person from Pennsylvania. Yeah, Zach Woods is too,
he's from he's in Bucks County, but he came along later.
(21:45):
So I was the one always bitching to get tasty
cakes into the vending machines because there's no there really
is no vending machine in Pennsylvania that does not have
tasty cakes, and we eventually did, but it was very brief.
That's all right, mission accomplished. They were too expensive. I
don't know, I'm not sure to be um, what do
you think about setting the show specifically in Scranton, Pennsylvania,
(22:06):
so goes along with Slough, England, which is this kind
of forgettable town that had a glory day. But I mean,
growing up in Philadelphia, Scranton was a joke, so it
was always the butt of many jokes. I think what
Greg did was he got very very specific and used
contradictory ideas that you don't see in television, like there's
(22:31):
the big dumb guy Kevin, but he's really good at
basketball and he's a poker savant. But Meredith as well,
like the ways that she was very specific. Yes, yes,
and sometimes I didn't always like every one. While I
remember improvising and feeling like I'm not sure if this
is gonna work whatever. I felt like season three was
(22:51):
a little bit of a struggle. I felt like I
got I mean, or there was a little more trial
and error or something, and that I feel like once
we got to season four, once I got hit by
the car in the fun run, episode was like we're
off to the races. But season three, I feel like
I was particularly cut out a lot, and I felt
like some of it was like we were trying for
things that didn't quite hit um. And some of that
(23:12):
might may have just been me not getting it, but
I was. I was a little bit like, oh my gosh,
I I hope we you know, I hope we find something,
you know suddenly, and boy did we. But just kind
of like understanding, like another layer of like, oh, she's
she's a mess, but she's also not a victim, and
she's not she's not as involved, but in a in
a very conscious way, she's not excluded. She just wants
(23:35):
to stay in her life, like literally, like she doesn't
want to get involved with I don't know. I've had
women come up to me and be like, oh my god,
I'm the Meredith of my office, and and it's not
just because they're like a drinker, because they usually are
and they're loud and proud, so I totally believe them,
like only a Meredith would be like a Meredith. Wow.
You know. It's like that to me is like the
(23:56):
ultimate compliment. It's fantastic. You know, my dad into bar.
I don't know if you knew this, but so I'm
a bar inner's daughter. You remember that Halloween episode, the
first Halloween episode that was supposed to be when it
was revealed that Meredith was a drinker and the whole
thing got cut, And remember Paul Fieg was like, I'm
so sorry. The network just wanted more of Michael Scott
handing candy to the kids from his new condom and like, uh, anyway,
(24:19):
my dad on a bar and my dad understood the
complexities of alcoholics too, and some of them were extremely
functional in some ways and charming and others and then
blow it and then get get back you know, really
mess up their life and then get it back together.
You know, there's little elements. I feel like there were subtle,
subtle things that kept showing up, like Meredith's relationship with
her son Jakie and you know, bring your daughter to
(24:40):
work day, Meredith brings her son, uh, who's a nightmare
and calls Michael Scott Mr poop so good so but
again like and and Meredith's ever forgiving and she's not
like a mean mom, She's she's a little indulgent, you know,
which again, like I don't know if that would have
been my first choice, but I totally respect it. I
(25:01):
get it. I see that in other people and I think,
oh my god, the writing was so great, Like they
really did not need my help, right. I think you
touched on something that I never really thought about before.
But you have a lot of kind of wonderful moments
with Michael Scott, like specifically with him. You know, there's
(25:24):
obviously the Christmas episode where you know, you flash him
for the first time. Um, but yeah, fun run when
he hits you with the car, break your pelvis. There's
a very tender moment at the end of that that
episode when you hear what he's done for you. Yeah.
It's interesting to me that Meredith functions kind of sol
(25:47):
in the in the group of an Ian. This has
never occurred to me before. But you know, that sort
of iconic shot of you playing Solitaire on the computer, like,
there's some connection to that, and you weren't by and large,
you weren't going over and hanging out at sales or
coming over to the account, which I think gave your
(26:09):
character an opportunity to do a lot of special things.
And obviously you being gifted physically as well well. It's
fun to get to do the physical comedy. And I
was thinking, you know, the the Valentine episode, the first
Valentine episode season two, when Phyllis is getting all these
gifts and Pam is really upset, and you just seem,
you know, Meredith with their big olpen and then we
find out that she's drinking and then she's passed out
(26:29):
with a line in her hair. I mean that to
me was like, what a perfect, perfect little just just
perfect enough. We get it, We've been there, we know that.
I mean again, there's so many layers and it's just
I don't know, I just feel so um, it's just
so fortunate to be a part of something that I
(26:50):
think always have a respect level that most other TV
shows don't have. I really don't. How do you feel
like Kate influenced Meredith? Um? I think I will. For one,
I was always willing to do most of my own stunts,
and for me, that made it more fun. I felt
I felt like I was really experiencing more that makes
(27:11):
any sense. Um. And and I also think that audience
knows sometimes when you know there's you know, I don't
if you guys used to watch The Bionic Woman but
there was always like some six foot guy in a
blonde wig pretending to be Jamie Summers, like so bad,
But yeah, I just it made me feel a little
more part of the process, and I felt like it
was one of my strengths that I really enjoyed it.
So when I was planking in the men's room and
(27:33):
Dwight comes and blows me off the top of the
stall with the fire extinguisher, that was me. So you know,
you didn't you didn't do one thing, though, Uh, there's
a couple of things I didn't do. I did. I
didn't get my hair on fire, and did not light
my hair on fire. When I heard that there was
like face gel involved, I was like, I don't know
if I wanted. I didn't shake my hand, I did not. Yeah,
(27:57):
good for you. I think I disappointed Greg, but really
he was shocked. He was like really, I'm like, I'm sorry,
but no, my hair is my thing. What I um? Well,
actually leading into that, do you there was so much
sexual stuff with Meredith. Yea. My parents were so happy
(28:17):
about that. My dad's so Catholic. He was like, oh,
what is going on? Do you when people say that
we couldn't do the show today. Do you think that
do you think that's a part of it. I was
reminded doing the research about you selling sex for steak, Yeah,
for steak coupons? Yeah yeah, yeah. But she was contrite,
(28:41):
she admitted it, and she was asking for forgiveness, right,
there's got to be I mean, there's some conscience in that,
which is funny and sad. I mean, that's that's the
best thing about The Office, is that it's the funny
and sad. Right. Um, there was a time I thought
Kevin and Mereth might we did kiss that one time?
(29:02):
You remember that? I didn't make it on the air.
I can't. I don't remember now. What was it? What
was the context like that? I know, I can't remember.
It was at my desk? You know? Why did we
do that? Was it? Was it a party? I remember
it was like a test, Like I remember. I think
about it every night. I just can't remember so much
sexual attention between you and I. Oh my gosh, what
(29:25):
was it? I can't remember. Shoot, I'm not sure. Oh
my gosh. I felt like they toyed. I felt like
the writer's toyed with it for a memure. Yes they did.
I do remember this a little bit. And I think
it was before the Valentine episode when Kevin was looking
for a girlfriend. Okay, I think it was before that.
It was to be explored. That's so fun. I forgot
that we're not lives. We can't have a fan phone in,
(29:47):
we can't answer damn. Um. Yeah, I'm gonna have to
I'm gonna have to think about it. I don't know
that it aired that. It may not have. It may
not have. Was that tough for you though? The getting
naked part of it was a little like ship but
it's a little like jumping out of an airplane. And
I will tell you, as great as you know Randal
and Matt were, I always felt like I didn't get much.
(30:10):
I kind that lunch after we shot me pick upless.
It was a little uncomfortable. And I think the last season,
season nine, there was an episode where we're watching parts
of the documentary at Oscar's desk in a scene and
I would have like a little bit of moleskin and
it fell and Ed's like, whoa, wha, whoa, we have
to stop. He was like, we could really see your boob.
I'm like, oh no, I had no idea. I was
(30:31):
so embarrassed. Oh I forgot about that. Yeah. No, but
you were so fearless in both the physicality that you
did and the pranks that you did. I feel like
you and I had did a lot of really bad
(30:51):
I remember the one what you wouldn't think about it
like watching the show. But we were loading boxes. We
were the warehouse was gone, right, and there was like
oil on the on the warehouse floor and we're like
pushing boxes like that was our idea to be more
efficient was to push boxes. And they just kept having
me ball and I'm like, guys, this is concorde, Like
(31:15):
this is not like there's no padding, there's no there. Yeah.
I think that was I think the hardest one for weirdly,
but you wouldn't think it, right, No, no, no, but
it's those little things because you're not padded and no,
I totally no. There was no safety meeting about it before,
like seriously, like there's a reason why they used to
do that stuff because you don't want to get hurt. Well,
(31:36):
me holding you on my back, oh my god, with
the that was intense. That's that's one of those things
that's like what drugs was someone on who came up
with that idea that Meredith strapped on Kevin's back crazy
make the idiots perform like monkeys. What do you remember
(32:15):
about finding out that Steve was leaving U. I literally
was with Creed. We were on the side of the
office doing like a satellite press junket um and we
and they had announced it that morning, so every venue
wanted to talk about it, and I was like, wow,
(32:38):
because of course it was emotional. I mean, who are
we We're not I mean Michael Scott. You know, Michael
Scott is thunder reveling, he is the office. Um. Yeah,
I was so freaked out. And literally I told Creed,
I'm like, okay, anytime they talk about this, just just
pretend like we can't hear the feet, like I think
the feed's going. I'm sorry, I'm getting some interference. What
was the question? Wishing him all the best? Like we
(32:59):
had the little thing where we would figure out how
to get out of the conversation. So but I was
I was definitely freaked out. And I mean, the great thing,
the great thing about our show is that I feel
like Greg Daniels is so trustworthy, and I feel like
he's picked so many great writers, and I feel like,
if anything could have survived a couple more years without
step Growl, it was because of Greg Daniels. But I
(33:22):
was nervous. I was, and I was nervous about Spader
um just because he's not a comedy guy. And he's brilliant,
but he's not a comedy guy. And I kind of
had this little thing like, oh no, he's holding the baby.
He's gonna drop the baby. Don't drop the baby. And
also I was intimidated because he's he's like a movie
star and I had seen so many all of his movies,
and you know, and there was so much sexual tension
(33:43):
between the two of us, so much, so much, but
I felt like there was sexual tension between me and Spade.
They're they're probably even more even more seriously, Spader, he
liked anyone there is sexual um. The season eight Christmas episode,
(34:03):
there was one take where he's sort of like Meredith
thinks she's actually made me gonna go to dinner with
em or something like that, she's got a chance with him,
and he sort of touches her cheeks like no, no, no,
and she goes to hug me, and I literally one take,
I grabbed his ass and then I was like immediately
when we stopped, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm
so sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I just felt like,
oh my god, he goes, No, he goes. That was
(34:25):
the right thing to do. End up using it, but
I was like, I don't grab James Spader's ask Kate
what them. I was so nervous. I was like, oh no,
oh no, oh no, he's amazing, amazing. Yeah. Pool party
supposedly at Robert California's house. That was the hardest episode
(34:48):
for me to do. Wow, I was in the pool
a really that's really really long time. And it was
one of the hardest for me because I had to
be in a bathing suit on camera in my forties
dream not and you think, like, you're in a pool,
why are you complaining? But like because of like hypothermia.
They had it, but it was gross. It was heated,
(35:11):
but it was indoors. So it was kind of like
an old holiday in that you can swim in that's hot,
and then you're in it for like in a day,
maybe nine hours in the water. Yeah. Yeah, and you
guys were doing those chicken fights with with on your shoulder. Yeah,
Oh my god. That was crazy. Again, the sexual tension
(35:31):
was off the charts. Um, so we had how important
it was, you know, for the pilot specifically, um, but
then the guest casting after that, to not have any stars, yes,
to keep it as unknown people. Yes. Yeah. And I
remember even Carol Burnett at the TC as she said
she she loved our show during her speech and she
wanted to be involved. And I think they were like, Nope,
(35:52):
too famous, too funny, too much. Yes, that's right, that
was an idea. But yeah, but then you know, of course, um,
Kathy Bates, come on, Cathy Bates Spader. Yeah. Well I
loved working with Will so fun Oh my god, just
the greatest. He had remembered. We had had dinner literally
(36:13):
in like four uh in New York when he first
got hired on S and L with Andy Richter, and
I was like, I couldn't believe that he remembered. And
I remember being embarrassed because I had a really embarrassing
ex boyfriend who was a real douche bag. He's like,
I felt really intimidated because all you guys were from Chicago,
and I felt like you guys were like so great
(36:34):
at while I was like, what is so crazy anyway,
but I love I love love Wolfore that's bad. Uh.
My story similar to that was Kathy Bates went to
s M. Uh she was there before me, but while
I was there, she had already won the oscar and
she came back to like they opened a new theater
(36:55):
and my mom got a book of Shakespeare's sonnets sent
it to Kathy Bates, told her that I was a
really big fan, and I went to s M. You
and I did this show and got it. I believe
the only autographed item that I have of anyone that
I can recall, like to Brian, you know, good luck
(37:15):
in your future, blah blah blah. Kathy Bates. So I
hear she's going to be on the show, And now
here we are and we're in the makeup trailer, and
I came up behind her and I said, I wanted, Kathy,
I want to show you. It wasn't her first day,
so I did not want to seem like a crazy stalker,
but I came up behind her and I said, you know,
I just want to show you that my mom. And
of course I wasn't expecting her to remember I'm sure
(37:36):
she's signed you know a lot of things just to say, like,
how crazy is this that my mom did this? I
know crazy, Oh my gosh, that's awesome. She then had
me arrested, but she had me arrested too. That's just
a little fun thing we used to do with get
people arrested. Um. What do you remember about going in
(38:03):
to shoot the finale? Um? I remember trying to be
as present as possible and just to try to enjoy
all of it because it was such a great ending.
And um, and then I remember Greg just saying one
more take, one more take, how about this? How about this?
I remember we were all two hours late for our
own rap party that people were texting and calling like
(38:26):
where are you? Like, just like, no one wanted to end.
No one wanted to end. There's so few moments like
that in this business where you can actually feel the
emotional part of the joy that all those years represented,
and the way all of our lives changed, and the
(38:46):
way that it the show continues to speak to people,
and like people feel so connected and they feel so comfortable.
It's so rare. I mean, really, I I make jokes
like if I got hit by a car tomorrow, for real,
I'd be fine, Like like it was, this was such
an amazing chapter, you know, and so few actors get this,
(39:07):
so few actors. It's it's, uh, it's really an honor.
Why do you think that young people have connected to
the show. Why is the show more popular now than
it was? To two reasons. The most basic reason is
that being in an office like dunder Mifflin with one
big room with all the offices, it's much like being
(39:29):
in a classroom, and Michael Scott is like he's the boss,
but he's like the teacher. I mean, I think kids
can always relate to having to sit next to someone
that they didn't necessarily pick, but they're kind of stuck
with for years. And also I think the show is
so smart. There's so many subtle things. You can watch
it a million times and see different things that you
didn't see before that you weren't paying attention, Like you
can notice different things. There's so many Easter eggs and
(39:51):
like weird little things that just kind of keeping. And
some of it's like stuff that got cut, like I
don't remember the weight loss episode, where like people still
have questions about like Meredith's skin, because there's a whole
storyline where Meredith got sun poisoned on a fishing boat,
and um, it got worse and worse as a week
went on, and it never got explained. And I remember
Steve was like he thought it was so brilliant that
(40:12):
they just didn't worry about explaining it, because how many
times you work with people that you're not that close
to and like something's going on. You're like, I don't
even want to know what's going on with it, you
know what I mean, Like not even And also like
skin is like a weird personal things, so you would
be like, what's wrong with your skin? No one would do,
you know. So it's like this kind of wonderful thing.
It's just we're just kind of existing as as a
(40:34):
real documentary would happen, where some things are not explained.
And I feel like kids are so smart, and I
feel like they feel like they're smarter maybe than their
parents by the way that they notice the office in
a way that maybe people have been watching very typical
sitcoms for years don't don't necessarily plug into immediately. I
feel like they're not as tainted by that. I don't know,
(40:55):
that's just a thought. Yeah, No, I I think you're right. No,
that's great. Um alright. Last question, hardest question. What does
the office mean to you? The office means joy, validation, success, um, love, fun,
(41:25):
great process and probably the best part of my life.
I knew you were going to say, well before you
set it, I know, I almost set it for you,
and I was like, nope, that's find it. Yeah, oh yeah, Kate,
thank you so much, Thank you so much. I'm so
(41:45):
glad we could get drunk like this. This is awesome.
This coffee has you have no idea what's in it? Actually,
no clue? Um, so awesome. I always loved watching your
process too. I have to say this because I always
felt like you you had You just had certain instincts
that like just I feel like you were such a
co creator and Kevin, like just in your not speaking
(42:08):
as well, but like there would be things that you
would just it was you. You were fearless and really amazing,
and I feel like, yes, the writing is amazing, but
I feel like no one else could do what you did.
No one. Well, thank you all right, everyone, that is
(42:38):
all for the one and only Kate Flannery. Kate, I
know you called me fearless there, but you are the
fearless one. I admire you so much and I cannot
wait to get absolutely wasted with you again soon. And
you know what, same to all your listeners out there.
(43:00):
Let's do it sometime, as long as you're of age,
of course, But until then, please join me back here
next week for another interview. I need to go fill
up this coffee cump the office. Deep Dive is hosted
(43:23):
and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive
producer Langley. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer, our producer
is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor is die Go Tapia.
My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. Our
theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend
(43:43):
Cree Bratton, and the episode was mixed by seth Olansky
Host
Brian Baumgartner
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