September 7, 2021 • 36 mins
The Office wouldn’t be what it is today without the amazing - and amazingly talented - women who contributed to its success. We’re kicking off a new mini deep dive into some of the incredible women of The Office - starting with the one who was there from the very beginning - executive producer Teri Weinberg. She gives Brian all the inside scoop from the network perspective, and talks about how she went from making skincare products in her kitchen to TV shows in some of the biggest studios out there.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, I'm Terry Weinberg and I am the executive producer
of the Office. Hello everyone, and welcome to you guessed
it the Office deep Dive. I am your host Brian Baumgartner.
(00:26):
But I bet you guessed that too, because you are
all very smart, as is my wonderful guest today, Terry Weinberg.
That was a transition. Now, Terry was an executive producer
of the Office and a longtime partner of Ben Silverman,
(00:47):
which truly makes her a saint, let's be honest, uh,
But she was definitely there from the very beginning in
the room where it happened, as they say, the whom,
where they grew the Office from a tiny seed of
an idea into the crazy popular show that it is today. Um,
(01:09):
as you will hear all about momentarily, Terry was involved
from day one in the casting and and really the
creation of the show. But what's even more fascinating to
me is that in the later years of the show,
Terry jumped over to work on the network side at NBC,
so she saw things from the inside and then also
(01:31):
from the network side and how the network was dealing
with the show. She has a really unique perspective on
the whole story of the Office, and this conversation kicks
off another mini series that we're doing, highlighting just some
of the many talented, hilarious, super smart women who made
(01:54):
the Office what it is, both in front of the
camera and behind the scenes. This is a great bunch
of interviews, if I do say so myself, So I am.
I'm really excited to share them all with you. So
let's get started, shall we today with Terry Weinberg Bubble
(02:16):
and Squeak. I love it Bubble and Squeak on Bubble
and Squeaker cooking at every moment, lift over from the
nut Pole. You know, a lot of the cast I
(02:40):
will say, like, we do really still, you know, keep
in touch, Like our fantasy football league is still going
like fifteen years later. So John and Rain and me
and some of the crew guys, and good luck with
that this year exactly. But Oscar and Angela and I
(03:01):
and you know, Rain and I and John. And that's
part of the thing too about this COVID business is
that people are reaching out more. You know, my birthday
was on Monday, and I spent the entire day and Zooms,
I mean the entire day, you know, but people you
you're learning two things. One we're working harder to stay
connected with people, and then you're also learning who wants
(03:23):
to stay connected to you? You know. Yea Father's Day
I heard from people like Father's Day, Like what nobody
ever reaches that? Why are you? I'm not your father?
Like everyone's reaching out. I don't know. That's been really great. Okay,
So you were so omnipresent through all of the beginning.
(03:46):
So if you go all the way back now is
nineteen years ago, how did you meet Ben? When did
you start working for Reveling? What was the transition there?
I'm at Ben in two thousands. I had two roommates
at the time. One of my roommates, who Ben had
known for some time, who I think date he dated
for one second, introduced him to our other roommate. Now
(04:11):
Ben was still working at William Morris, I think he
was still in London, and he would fly out to
l A and he would be out here every month
and he would stay for you know, a couple of
weeks whatever. So she introduced one roommate, introduces him to
the other. They start dating. In true Ben fashion, he
(04:32):
used to stay at the Lermitage I think it was
for three weeks at a time. Either she would stay
at the Lermitage with him or he would stay and
our duplex. And so I started to see him a
lot and got to know him just socially. And at
that point my roommate that he was dating and me,
I just left I c M and we started a
(04:53):
skincare company. I would be up all day, all night
making all these skincare products in my kitchen and I
was talking about about, you know what my experience was
at I c M and whatever. We just got to
know each other really well. And it was in March
I think of two thousand one. He pulled an all
(05:15):
nighter I think at the Oscars, came home. I'm up
at four or five in the morning making these things.
He comes walking in in his Oswald Botang purple suit, right,
and um, we just started talking. He said, you know what,
I'm gonna start my own production company. I've been bringing
formats in to the States, and I really just want
(05:38):
to have more of a creative experience. I want to
be a producer. And when I do that, I want
you to go work for me. And I said, okay, well,
I have no idea what you're talking about. But okay,
Ben talked to me next year because I didn't take
him seriously, but he kept bringing up and he always
said to me, you know, I really appreciate your work ethic.
I like the experience that you have. I have no
(06:00):
idea what you'd be doing yet, but I know that
I need you to be a part of my company.
So cut to that next year where he made the
deal with the vend Universal was Barry Diller at the time,
and he brought Howard Owens, Mark Coops, and Chris Grant
from New York. They were all still in New York,
and he said, I'm bringing these three guys. Didn't know them.
(06:22):
We have a bungalow at Universal. So I want you
to go and set at the office and I meet
a house, Go find me a house. This is no
surprise at all, and we will be there in two
(06:42):
months or something like that. So what do I do.
I go on the lot. I get the whole entire
bungalow up ready to go. All they had to do
was walk in and pick up a pen and go
to work phones everything. I'm navigated my way through the
entire Universal, every department you could possibly imagine anyway they
(07:04):
come out and we all just learned how to produce,
just the five of us. You would have thought that
a hundred people worked at that production company, and it
was us five and so Ben, Mark and Howard. You know,
we're focusing mostly on international. You know, we had Nashville
Star I think was being developed, and Biggest Loser just
(07:26):
kind of you know, looking at formats and kind of
touching on what that stuff was going to be, which
I really didn't have any interest in. And we had
the Format two Coupling. That was our first show that
we started to produce in scripted television, and so I
just kind of cut my teeth in that process. I
would just sit in the corner, you know, in a
(07:46):
room and listen to, you know, the conversations, and I
went to every I did everything with Ben. I went everywhere.
I was on every phone, call you everything that you
could possibly imagine. That's really how I learned is listening
to executives, listening to studios, listening to creative people. I
certainly had a deep familiarity with script because that's how
I was raised. A I C. M. And then I
(08:07):
just each day I just kept immersing myself deeper and
deeper in that process, and that's really how I built
the scripted department at REVLI. What did you learn from
your experience on Coupling that you felt like impacted bringing
the office over? We learned a couple of things. One,
(08:28):
you know, there was so much pressure on that show
because it was being coined the Next Friends, and we
realized that, oh, ship, that's a big problem because people
are going to have an expectation that we are trying
to be the next Friends, which we had no intention
of being. So learning about how critical marketing is of
a show, and also we pretty much adhered to every
(08:50):
script from the British version instead of kind of making
it our own, and so we also learned that that
stuff doesn't necessarily translate. So I think we learned that
going into that process we needed to have a voice.
We needed to have somebody come in that, you know,
understood the rhythms and the uniqueness of what that show was,
(09:12):
but had to bring in their own voice and make
it their own right. Stephen actually said to me that
he felt like his greatest contribution was actually and one
thing he said to Ricky was stepped back, like they
know culturally about what's happening in America or rhythms or
specific sensibilities or whatever. So the more we can stay
(09:34):
out of it, the better. I Mean, the most beautiful
thing about what Ricky and Stephen did was exactly that
they came over, met the cast, spent time with Greg
and just talked about the things that we really cared about.
How did you create these characters? What made you want
(09:55):
to be in this world? How did these rhythms, like
all of the things that we're more important. Instead of
tell us exactly how you, you know, get this shot
or whatever, it was really more about all the impetus
is on creating the show. And then they were the
most incredible cheerleaders one could ever have. I mean, they
were absolutely dream partners, and they literally just sat back
(10:19):
and like fans, fell in love with the show. And
I'll never forget, and I'm sure you'll remember. I mean,
I was kind of a blur, but when we won
the Emmy and we were all up on the stage
and Greg reached out and said, Ricky and Stephen, I
know you're out there somewhere, you know, because of you,
you're brilliantly I can't remember exactly what he said, And
(10:42):
then I remembered watching the telecast back and Ricky and
Stephen they were so proud but got so shy and
didn't want to take any of the credit for it.
It was beautiful, and they never had egos about it
to say, this is our thing and we're lending it
to you. This is our thing, and we're giving this
(11:04):
to you and we're trusting you to go and do
your own thing. Yeah. So, at what point in the
process when you were working with REVELI did you become
aware of the office, the British Office. I mean it
had to be in the beginning, because Ben had the rights,
he had already secured them. And I remembered Ben showing
(11:28):
it to me and said, look at this and tell
me what you think. And I remembered watching and said,
oh my god, I have to we have to do this.
I don't know what the funk we're doing, but we
have to do this. I was absolutely obsessed so very
early on. And then then we put the time into,
you know, try to find the right voice. And in
(11:49):
the conversations that Bennett had with Ari, Greg's name obviously
came up, and I'm sure he probably told you this,
but he just would not watch it. I mean I
think he sat on it for three weeks or something
like that. And then finally Ben was talking to Ari
and said, is this guy that ever you know watched this?
And I think already said the same thing to Greg,
are you gonna watch this? You know, because they're going
(12:12):
to move on? And then Greg, I think watched it
over that weekend and came back and said, oh my god,
I hope to god they didn't move on because I
have to do this. Yeah, that's awesome. What was your
initial impression of him? Introvert, brilliant, one of the nicest
people I've ever met, collaborative, open, you know, and welcome,
(12:34):
didn't bring any ego, respected us and me even I
don't know if he knew how much I'd ever you know,
produced in my life, and immediately just treated us like
his partners. I fell in love with them immediately and thought,
my god, how do we get so lucky? This man
is just brilliant, you know, Greg, He's thoughtful, he's tactile,
(12:59):
and his hands like he thinks before he you know,
there's a lot ruminating in here before he would share
an idea, but he was incredibly thoughtful and very very
respectful of the format and of Ricky and Stephen, and
cautious because we all knew we were stepping in a
gigantic pile of are you guys kidding me that you're
actually going to attempt to do this? So yeah, I
(13:22):
just I only have the most and still the fondest
memories of Greg. Was there anybody else that you feel
like you seriously considered or was Greg at Greg? Was it?
Ricky and Stephen told me both separately that what sold
them was that Greg saw it as a love story. Yeah,
(13:44):
it was a It was a love story. Was about humanity,
it was about human behavior, It was all about people.
It was all about heart. The thing that we can
all relate to is that, in some form or fashion,
we've been in a work place where you're not necessarily
happy about the work that you're doing, but you fall
(14:04):
in love with the people. It's love and hate relationship.
They become family, they become you know, you see them
more typically in your life than you do your family members.
And so it really was about the love that's created,
you know, in a workplace. For sure, you were in
(14:42):
the room for the majority of not all of the
casting sessions. Was there anyone who walked in right away
that was ultimately cast that you went, that's the person
John Steve. But Steve is a different story. He didn't
really audition. Um you know, it was a really interesting
(15:04):
audition process because I don't think any one of us
had ever really kind of been through anything like that before.
Because actors would come in and read a scene and
then they would improv, you know, and Greg would throw
ridiculous little lines out and say, go tell me you
just got into the refrigerator this morning, you know, or
(15:24):
just these really kind of weird random things. And we
saw so many actors, you know, Greg, myself, Ken Howard, Ben,
you know, Allison and um Phillis would be in the
conference room at REVELI for eight or ten hours a
day just and it was just a constant. And Alison,
(15:47):
she had such a deep knowledge of you know, stand
ups and second cities and groundlings and people that we've
never seen before. And so there were so many people
that were so interesting to us. I think is we
whittled things down and it became all of you. We
knew it was all of you, because everybody didn't fit
(16:07):
the mold that we were looking for, but they brought
something special and beautiful. It was like making a puzzle.
Everybody just fit in so beautifully for you know, Jim
and Pam and Dwight, etcetera. Talk to me a little
bit about doing screen tests, filming them in the office
as opposed to doing regular studio and network tests. How
(16:29):
rare was that at that time we were the first,
if I remember correctly, And the reason was very It
was selfish on our part because a we thought, they
will never make this show if two actors, you know,
because at that time, actors used to walk into the
president's office and there would be twenty people behind the
(16:51):
president and two people would be asked to perform a
scene or something with all these eyeballs on them, and
it was the most unnatural process anybody could ever imagine.
And then I remember when I went to NBC and
became a programmer and we were asking people to do that.
I said, I don't want to I don't want to
do that. I want to put people on tape because
it doesn't you don't get the real person because they're
(17:14):
so busy performing for a room. And so so yeah,
I think we were the first of its kind, and
I think because of that, it started to kind of
shift the way people were auditioning. Do you remember Phillis
of course, no, I mean reading, and of course anything
about the discussion around casting her, yes, I mean part
(17:35):
of the process was either she would run the camera
or Allison would run the camera, and then if Allison
didn't feel like reading, Phillis would read. And then Phillis
started reading more and more. And I don't remember if
it was Ken that said it first or Greg but said,
oh my god, she has to be in the show.
(17:56):
She's so funny, and we all said, oh my hud, yes,
And I remembered us asking Allison, how do you feel
about if we steal Phillis? And she said, oh my god,
you know, yes, you know, take her. And I remember
us telling her and it was it was pretty amazing.
(18:17):
What do you remember so thinking about the Office and
what that show was, the style to no laugh track,
all that, what was the landscape of television that that
show was born into, Like what was popular what was
done on broadcast TV at that time? Seinfeld cheers all
of the seminal comedies that were so smart. But the
(18:42):
thing about that time, as I remember is that ratings
were everything. Eighteen to thirty four was everything. You had
to have, you know, a twenty share or something. So
having you know, five million people or six million people
watching your show is just a non starter. You know,
it had to be twenty million. And our audience was very,
(19:03):
very concentrated in the eighteen to thirty four and it
was very K plus, but it was small. And so
that's the challenge was how do we keep ourselves on
the air when A the pilot tested worse than I
think any other pilot had ever tested on NBC. Besides,
I think Seinfeld didn't test well either, and uh, you know,
(19:27):
we only had six episodes to prove ourselves, and we
were kind of at that time also scheduled in kind
of the okay, you're dead. It was in March, and
that's when people said, well, wire shows starting to air
after the you know, prime time fall in mid season shows,
and so we kind of felt like they were just
(19:48):
getting rid of us. So the pilot bombed when it
was tested. Were you concerned about that, yes, because it
was you know at that time, if something tests really bad,
it's d o A, you know, and if it's not
d O A good luck trying to convince your network
that it's a pilot that they should bet on. And
(20:11):
so if not for Kevin Riley, this show would not
have a life. I really do believe that he put
his career on the line. So yeah, we're very concerned,
and I think it's part of the reason why it
tested so poorly. It's just because it was something that
people have never seen before. And those groups that come
(20:33):
in to do the testing, you know, they get paid
seventy five or fifty dollars or whatever, and then they
judge your material based on twenty minutes of something and
tell you if it's good or it's bad. That was
a real learning experience for me and something that I thought,
God if I could And I think when Ben and
(20:55):
I went to NBC, we didn't care so much about testing.
We cared more about instinct. We cared about the shows
that we loved and wanted a program So I think
that came into a full circle as we went from
producer to programmer. That testing serves a certain purpose, but
it shouldn't be the be all hand all of the
success of something. Right. Well, speaking of that, how did
(21:18):
your relationship to the office change when you moved to NBC.
The only thing that changed was that I could be
an even larger advocate for it inside the network. Not
that I needed to be, because at that point, you know,
we were we were just a well oiled machine. You know.
(21:38):
It was interesting because then I became Greg's executive and
to switch from being partner and fighting for certain things
over here and now being you know, I had programmer,
having to fight for certain things that I knew were
in the best interest of the network without interfering with
the integrity of the show. And here's a perfect example.
(21:59):
We want The Office to to air after the super Bowl,
and um, we needed to make sure that if whoever
was watching the super Bowl had never seen The Office before,
that we had to do something completely outrageous to let
people say, oh my god, I have never seen this show.
I love this, I'm staying And Greg had pitched a
(22:22):
cold open, and I remembered saying, you know, this is
kind of cool, but getting a little pressure from Jeff,
you know, and Ben to make sure that we have
some celebrities in there. And you know, we never had
celebrities on our show. It was always about, you know,
making sure that it felt like we were dropping into
(22:44):
a world of just human beings, and in Greg's brilliant fashion,
found a way to bring in celebrities without having the
celebrities feel like they were really a part of the office.
And I challenged him to do the most outrageous cold
open that he could, you know, if people were only
(23:05):
going to see the first minute and a half of
the show. So it was having to you know, maneuver
a little bit differently as becoming a kind of network
person as opposed to his partner on the show. That's fascinating. Yeah,
I never put it within that context that at that moment,
(23:26):
the people that he was having to do this push
and pull for that episode was you guys. I was
the person that would call the network for Greg or
the studio and say he's not doing that, or we're
not changing this or you know, because he did not
like those confrontational moments. And I always said, you want confrontation,
(23:49):
just bring it over to Mama and I'll take care
of it. Now I'm the person on the other end
of the phone getting, you know, well, we want to
do this, we need to do that, uh, you know,
and and giving notes you know, on scripts was crazy,
but it wasn't it was. You know, my instincts didn't
(24:09):
change because I always knew that he was way smarter
than me, and I would, you know, I could only
you know, the one thing that Greg said to me
way back in the beginning when we first started this
relationship and he started developing the show, was what's most
important to me is that you tell me how you feel.
How does the episode make you feel? How did the
(24:30):
relationships of the characters in this episode make you feel?
You know, do you feel moved enough? Do you feel
motivated enough? Do you feel And so I would look
at the scripts and just think about how did it
make me feel. I didn't look at it and say, well,
the structure isn't so much blah la lah. It is
about are we accomplishing this really quiet moment between Jim
(24:53):
and Pam? Is there something going on with the accountants
in the in the corner that we're peeking in on,
you know, with the rest of the offices and seeing
so those little things. Are you feeling them? Are you
picking up on them? It was really about how it
made me feel, and that's how I continued to produce
from that point on. How do characters make me feel,
(25:14):
how do the moments make me feel? I love that
so much. Um Musty TV became a big thing for NBC.
(25:42):
Where do you feel like the Office fit into that
legacy of musty TV comedy on NBC? Oh well, maybe
you know this is um arrogant, but we're integral to
the NBC Thursday lamp. I mean we are integral to
the conversation about what a seminal NBC comedy is. I
(26:07):
absolutely believe that. I believe that we defied all odds
of becoming a successful comedy. Who would have ever thought
we were going to do two d and twenty episodes.
I mean, think about it. We got a five episode
pick up and then we got at episode pickup. Really
we didn't get a full season, so not only define
(26:27):
all of those odds, but also kind of redefining what
a comedy was, you know, on television and introducing people
into a world that might have felt different, but they
also felt like it was so familiar to them and
that you could really you know, because people come to
comedies for two reasons, really to laugh their faces off
(26:52):
and to fall in love with a cast, a family,
a workplace, you know, buddy comedy, whatever, it is. And
I think having the extensive cast that we had, I mean,
what did we have towards the end of the run? Characters?
Fifteen characters? Who does that? And every single one of
you had people who just loved you. Everybody had their fans.
(27:14):
I mean, we got our TV Land Future comedy classic
in season three or four or something. It's right here. Yeah,
so what year is that? Oh my god, there's not
a date on it. Hold on, now there's a date.
It's probably on the other side. Oh, it is tight.
(27:38):
So we were a classic already in season three or four. Yeah, four,
And the fact that we were considered that and look
at it, you know now, I mean, I have young kids.
I went to a kid's of our Mitzvah last year.
They're all thirteen fourteen. I was accosted. It was like
(28:00):
I was a celebrity at this bar Mitzvah because these
kids were obsessed with the show. And we always said
we had a hidden demographic from the beginning that was
under eighteen. But now we have This show has had
a life and then another life and another life. And
I really do believe that we are are a part
of that conversation. What do you remember about the decision
(28:24):
to end the show pain. I hated it. It was
one of the worst memories that I have of our
beautiful love story. It's always hard when you're making decisions
about when you move forward on a show and when
you don't from a business standpoint, which I can't respond
(28:45):
to because I wasn't on that side of the business
at that point, but it was really fucking hard. It
was hard all the conversations we had, you know, from
from being an executive producer, sitting with our cast, talking
to you know, the studio, the network, and it's kind
of a blurn out because I've tried to push it
(29:06):
out of my consciousness, but it was. It was excruciatingly painful,
and um, I think it hurt a lot of us.
I don't know if people really talked about it, but
when we shot the last episode, I was so emotionally
and physically exhausted. I think I cried for the last month,
you know, but when we were all taking that very
(29:27):
last shot. I have a book that NBC made for us.
I'm sure you've looked at it, and my face is
this big, and I'm bright red, and I am crying,
and I couldn't believe that it was over. I felt
like we had so much more to do and it
(29:48):
was over and took a long time to I have
a lot of my own kind of internal things about
the show that you know, I'll you deal with as
a profession and all. It was excruciating, the hard. Yeah,
what are you most proud of about the show? What?
My god, how do I put that in one thing? Dude,
(30:13):
I'm most proud that every single one of us that
were involved in the first season of our show, we
came to work every day and said, if we're only
making six total episodes, let's make the best episodes that
we know how to make, and let's come in here
(30:34):
and do the work and do it with love, and
do it with everything that we have, and do it
for ourselves, you know. And we all showed up on
that lot every single day and made I'm getting emotional
about this, and made an incredibly beautiful show. And it
was for all of us. Whether you were in the cast,
(30:55):
whether you were in the crew, whether you were in accounting,
that you were in props, catering, whatever, everybody came and
just it was like we were on our own island.
I think that we all loved it so much, and
everybody came and did their job and did it really
(31:19):
well and for each other. I could tell you a
million other things, but I think I'm most proud of
that being given that opportunity and making our family. Thenk
you cry. I hope I bought it here. I was
trying to not say anything. I wanted to get your
audio there. No, it was. Yeah, everybody that came in,
(31:45):
I played them a clip and we don't have that
ability here, goddamn it. No, but you'll know it's the
last line of the show. It's Jenna, It's sorry, it's Pam,
and there's beauty and ordinary things. Isn't that kind of
the point. I feel like Greg wrote that episode, He
wrote that last line. That's what he thought it was about.
(32:09):
What did you think it was about? I thought it
was I thought it was too I thought it was
taking something that could have been the most simple and
uninteresting idea about a group of people, you know, going
to work in a dying business, and turning it into
(32:33):
something that was so much bigger than that. It was
bigger than them, it was bigger than us, all of us. Yeah,
it was finding joy and using opportunities to just make
people laugh, you know, and be able to escape the
you know, maybe the dull drums of their own life
(32:56):
and go be with their friends. All of those little
beautiful gems that all of you guys were able to
create every episode. I mean, we can still probably go
back through and I'll see things I never saw before.
And I've seen those things a million times, and that
was the whole idea. You know, everything was calculated to
(33:20):
where Homer Simpson was sitting in the you know, bullpen.
You know, all those everything was perfectly calculated, just two
for fun of people being able to find the little
Easter eggs. That's another thing about Greg. He's like a
grown child. It was juicy, and when he spoke, he
did these things with his hands because it was so fun.
(33:41):
You know. He always just wanted people to have fun
and joy, even if you're an adult, that you could
still just be a kid. Yeah. Is that answer your
question totally? Terry, thank you so much for talking to me.
I really so good to see you. You're so smart.
I hope you stay healthy, and I just appreciate your
(34:03):
time and talking to me about this. First of all,
I'll talk to you about anything, because I love you,
and it's such a joy to be able to kind
of walk back down certain parts of our super long
you know, memory lane. I'm really excited to hear what
(34:24):
everybody else has to say to I know, I know
it's gonna be really cool because I think I get
these questions asked all the time, and so it's nice
that we'd be able. We're able to you know, share it.
So I love that you're doing this and I'm absolutely
thrilled to be a part of it. It's my pleasure. Well,
(34:55):
there you have it, Terry Weinberg. Folks, I truly love
talking about the business side of things, but I have
to say it is always so special to talk to
a producer who feels so passionately about the creative side
of the show as well as Terry clearly does. So
(35:17):
thank you so much for stopping by. Terry, I love you,
um and thanks to all of you for stopping by
as well. I look forward to seeing you next week
for more of our series on the Women of the Office.
We've got some terrific stuff coming your way, So until then,
I hope you have a great week. The Office Deep
(35:45):
Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner
alongside our executive producer Langley. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer.
Our producers are Emily Carr and Diego Tapio, and our
intern is Hannah Harris. My main man in the booth
is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed
(36:06):
by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was
mixed by Seth Olandsky
Hi, I'm Terry Weinberg and I am the executive producer
of the Office. Hello everyone, and welcome to you guessed
it the Office deep Dive. I am your host Brian Baumgartner.
(00:26):
But I bet you guessed that too, because you are
all very smart, as is my wonderful guest today, Terry Weinberg.
That was a transition. Now, Terry was an executive producer
of the Office and a longtime partner of Ben Silverman,
(00:47):
which truly makes her a saint, let's be honest, uh,
But she was definitely there from the very beginning in
the room where it happened, as they say, the whom,
where they grew the Office from a tiny seed of
an idea into the crazy popular show that it is today. Um,
(01:09):
as you will hear all about momentarily, Terry was involved
from day one in the casting and and really the
creation of the show. But what's even more fascinating to
me is that in the later years of the show,
Terry jumped over to work on the network side at NBC,
so she saw things from the inside and then also
(01:31):
from the network side and how the network was dealing
with the show. She has a really unique perspective on
the whole story of the Office, and this conversation kicks
off another mini series that we're doing, highlighting just some
of the many talented, hilarious, super smart women who made
(01:54):
the Office what it is, both in front of the
camera and behind the scenes. This is a great bunch
of interviews, if I do say so myself, So I am.
I'm really excited to share them all with you. So
let's get started, shall we today with Terry Weinberg Bubble
(02:16):
and Squeak. I love it Bubble and Squeak on Bubble
and Squeaker cooking at every moment, lift over from the
nut Pole. You know, a lot of the cast I
(02:40):
will say, like, we do really still, you know, keep
in touch, Like our fantasy football league is still going
like fifteen years later. So John and Rain and me
and some of the crew guys, and good luck with
that this year exactly. But Oscar and Angela and I
(03:01):
and you know, Rain and I and John. And that's
part of the thing too about this COVID business is
that people are reaching out more. You know, my birthday
was on Monday, and I spent the entire day and Zooms,
I mean the entire day, you know, but people you
you're learning two things. One we're working harder to stay
connected with people, and then you're also learning who wants
(03:23):
to stay connected to you? You know. Yea Father's Day
I heard from people like Father's Day, Like what nobody
ever reaches that? Why are you? I'm not your father?
Like everyone's reaching out. I don't know. That's been really great. Okay,
So you were so omnipresent through all of the beginning.
(03:46):
So if you go all the way back now is
nineteen years ago, how did you meet Ben? When did
you start working for Reveling? What was the transition there?
I'm at Ben in two thousands. I had two roommates
at the time. One of my roommates, who Ben had
known for some time, who I think date he dated
for one second, introduced him to our other roommate. Now
(04:11):
Ben was still working at William Morris, I think he
was still in London, and he would fly out to
l A and he would be out here every month
and he would stay for you know, a couple of
weeks whatever. So she introduced one roommate, introduces him to
the other. They start dating. In true Ben fashion, he
(04:32):
used to stay at the Lermitage I think it was
for three weeks at a time. Either she would stay
at the Lermitage with him or he would stay and
our duplex. And so I started to see him a
lot and got to know him just socially. And at
that point my roommate that he was dating and me,
I just left I c M and we started a
(04:53):
skincare company. I would be up all day, all night
making all these skincare products in my kitchen and I
was talking about about, you know what my experience was
at I c M and whatever. We just got to
know each other really well. And it was in March
I think of two thousand one. He pulled an all
(05:15):
nighter I think at the Oscars, came home. I'm up
at four or five in the morning making these things.
He comes walking in in his Oswald Botang purple suit, right,
and um, we just started talking. He said, you know what,
I'm gonna start my own production company. I've been bringing
formats in to the States, and I really just want
(05:38):
to have more of a creative experience. I want to
be a producer. And when I do that, I want
you to go work for me. And I said, okay, well,
I have no idea what you're talking about. But okay,
Ben talked to me next year because I didn't take
him seriously, but he kept bringing up and he always
said to me, you know, I really appreciate your work ethic.
I like the experience that you have. I have no
(06:00):
idea what you'd be doing yet, but I know that
I need you to be a part of my company.
So cut to that next year where he made the
deal with the vend Universal was Barry Diller at the time,
and he brought Howard Owens, Mark Coops, and Chris Grant
from New York. They were all still in New York,
and he said, I'm bringing these three guys. Didn't know them.
(06:22):
We have a bungalow at Universal. So I want you
to go and set at the office and I meet
a house, Go find me a house. This is no
surprise at all, and we will be there in two
(06:42):
months or something like that. So what do I do.
I go on the lot. I get the whole entire
bungalow up ready to go. All they had to do
was walk in and pick up a pen and go
to work phones everything. I'm navigated my way through the
entire Universal, every department you could possibly imagine anyway they
(07:04):
come out and we all just learned how to produce,
just the five of us. You would have thought that
a hundred people worked at that production company, and it
was us five and so Ben, Mark and Howard. You know,
we're focusing mostly on international. You know, we had Nashville
Star I think was being developed, and Biggest Loser just
(07:26):
kind of you know, looking at formats and kind of
touching on what that stuff was going to be, which
I really didn't have any interest in. And we had
the Format two Coupling. That was our first show that
we started to produce in scripted television, and so I
just kind of cut my teeth in that process. I
would just sit in the corner, you know, in a
(07:46):
room and listen to, you know, the conversations, and I
went to every I did everything with Ben. I went everywhere.
I was on every phone, call you everything that you
could possibly imagine. That's really how I learned is listening
to executives, listening to studios, listening to creative people. I
certainly had a deep familiarity with script because that's how
I was raised. A I C. M. And then I
(08:07):
just each day I just kept immersing myself deeper and
deeper in that process, and that's really how I built
the scripted department at REVLI. What did you learn from
your experience on Coupling that you felt like impacted bringing
the office over? We learned a couple of things. One,
(08:28):
you know, there was so much pressure on that show
because it was being coined the Next Friends, and we
realized that, oh, ship, that's a big problem because people
are going to have an expectation that we are trying
to be the next Friends, which we had no intention
of being. So learning about how critical marketing is of
a show, and also we pretty much adhered to every
(08:50):
script from the British version instead of kind of making
it our own, and so we also learned that that
stuff doesn't necessarily translate. So I think we learned that
going into that process we needed to have a voice.
We needed to have somebody come in that, you know,
understood the rhythms and the uniqueness of what that show was,
(09:12):
but had to bring in their own voice and make
it their own right. Stephen actually said to me that
he felt like his greatest contribution was actually and one
thing he said to Ricky was stepped back, like they
know culturally about what's happening in America or rhythms or
specific sensibilities or whatever. So the more we can stay
(09:34):
out of it, the better. I Mean, the most beautiful
thing about what Ricky and Stephen did was exactly that
they came over, met the cast, spent time with Greg
and just talked about the things that we really cared about.
How did you create these characters? What made you want
(09:55):
to be in this world? How did these rhythms, like
all of the things that we're more important. Instead of
tell us exactly how you, you know, get this shot
or whatever, it was really more about all the impetus
is on creating the show. And then they were the
most incredible cheerleaders one could ever have. I mean, they
were absolutely dream partners, and they literally just sat back
(10:19):
and like fans, fell in love with the show. And
I'll never forget, and I'm sure you'll remember. I mean,
I was kind of a blur, but when we won
the Emmy and we were all up on the stage
and Greg reached out and said, Ricky and Stephen, I
know you're out there somewhere, you know, because of you,
you're brilliantly I can't remember exactly what he said, And
(10:42):
then I remembered watching the telecast back and Ricky and
Stephen they were so proud but got so shy and
didn't want to take any of the credit for it.
It was beautiful, and they never had egos about it
to say, this is our thing and we're lending it
to you. This is our thing, and we're giving this
(11:04):
to you and we're trusting you to go and do
your own thing. Yeah. So, at what point in the
process when you were working with REVELI did you become
aware of the office, the British Office. I mean it
had to be in the beginning, because Ben had the rights,
he had already secured them. And I remembered Ben showing
(11:28):
it to me and said, look at this and tell
me what you think. And I remembered watching and said,
oh my god, I have to we have to do this.
I don't know what the funk we're doing, but we
have to do this. I was absolutely obsessed so very
early on. And then then we put the time into,
you know, try to find the right voice. And in
(11:49):
the conversations that Bennett had with Ari, Greg's name obviously
came up, and I'm sure he probably told you this,
but he just would not watch it. I mean I
think he sat on it for three weeks or something
like that. And then finally Ben was talking to Ari
and said, is this guy that ever you know watched this?
And I think already said the same thing to Greg,
are you gonna watch this? You know, because they're going
(12:12):
to move on? And then Greg, I think watched it
over that weekend and came back and said, oh my god,
I hope to god they didn't move on because I
have to do this. Yeah, that's awesome. What was your
initial impression of him? Introvert, brilliant, one of the nicest
people I've ever met, collaborative, open, you know, and welcome,
(12:34):
didn't bring any ego, respected us and me even I
don't know if he knew how much I'd ever you know,
produced in my life, and immediately just treated us like
his partners. I fell in love with them immediately and thought,
my god, how do we get so lucky? This man
is just brilliant, you know, Greg, He's thoughtful, he's tactile,
(12:59):
and his hands like he thinks before he you know,
there's a lot ruminating in here before he would share
an idea, but he was incredibly thoughtful and very very
respectful of the format and of Ricky and Stephen, and
cautious because we all knew we were stepping in a
gigantic pile of are you guys kidding me that you're
actually going to attempt to do this? So yeah, I
(13:22):
just I only have the most and still the fondest
memories of Greg. Was there anybody else that you feel
like you seriously considered or was Greg at Greg? Was it?
Ricky and Stephen told me both separately that what sold
them was that Greg saw it as a love story. Yeah,
(13:44):
it was a It was a love story. Was about humanity,
it was about human behavior, It was all about people.
It was all about heart. The thing that we can
all relate to is that, in some form or fashion,
we've been in a work place where you're not necessarily
happy about the work that you're doing, but you fall
(14:04):
in love with the people. It's love and hate relationship.
They become family, they become you know, you see them
more typically in your life than you do your family members.
And so it really was about the love that's created,
you know, in a workplace. For sure, you were in
(14:42):
the room for the majority of not all of the
casting sessions. Was there anyone who walked in right away
that was ultimately cast that you went, that's the person
John Steve. But Steve is a different story. He didn't
really audition. Um you know, it was a really interesting
(15:04):
audition process because I don't think any one of us
had ever really kind of been through anything like that before.
Because actors would come in and read a scene and
then they would improv, you know, and Greg would throw
ridiculous little lines out and say, go tell me you
just got into the refrigerator this morning, you know, or
(15:24):
just these really kind of weird random things. And we
saw so many actors, you know, Greg, myself, Ken Howard, Ben,
you know, Allison and um Phillis would be in the
conference room at REVELI for eight or ten hours a
day just and it was just a constant. And Alison,
(15:47):
she had such a deep knowledge of you know, stand
ups and second cities and groundlings and people that we've
never seen before. And so there were so many people
that were so interesting to us. I think is we
whittled things down and it became all of you. We
knew it was all of you, because everybody didn't fit
(16:07):
the mold that we were looking for, but they brought
something special and beautiful. It was like making a puzzle.
Everybody just fit in so beautifully for you know, Jim
and Pam and Dwight, etcetera. Talk to me a little
bit about doing screen tests, filming them in the office
as opposed to doing regular studio and network tests. How
(16:29):
rare was that at that time we were the first,
if I remember correctly, And the reason was very It
was selfish on our part because a we thought, they
will never make this show if two actors, you know,
because at that time, actors used to walk into the
president's office and there would be twenty people behind the
(16:51):
president and two people would be asked to perform a
scene or something with all these eyeballs on them, and
it was the most unnatural process anybody could ever imagine.
And then I remember when I went to NBC and
became a programmer and we were asking people to do that.
I said, I don't want to I don't want to
do that. I want to put people on tape because
it doesn't you don't get the real person because they're
(17:14):
so busy performing for a room. And so so yeah,
I think we were the first of its kind, and
I think because of that, it started to kind of
shift the way people were auditioning. Do you remember Phillis
of course, no, I mean reading, and of course anything
about the discussion around casting her, yes, I mean part
(17:35):
of the process was either she would run the camera
or Allison would run the camera, and then if Allison
didn't feel like reading, Phillis would read. And then Phillis
started reading more and more. And I don't remember if
it was Ken that said it first or Greg but said,
oh my god, she has to be in the show.
(17:56):
She's so funny, and we all said, oh my hud, yes,
And I remembered us asking Allison, how do you feel
about if we steal Phillis? And she said, oh my god,
you know, yes, you know, take her. And I remember
us telling her and it was it was pretty amazing.
(18:17):
What do you remember so thinking about the Office and
what that show was, the style to no laugh track,
all that, what was the landscape of television that that
show was born into, Like what was popular what was
done on broadcast TV at that time? Seinfeld cheers all
of the seminal comedies that were so smart. But the
(18:42):
thing about that time, as I remember is that ratings
were everything. Eighteen to thirty four was everything. You had
to have, you know, a twenty share or something. So
having you know, five million people or six million people
watching your show is just a non starter. You know,
it had to be twenty million. And our audience was very,
(19:03):
very concentrated in the eighteen to thirty four and it
was very K plus, but it was small. And so
that's the challenge was how do we keep ourselves on
the air when A the pilot tested worse than I
think any other pilot had ever tested on NBC. Besides,
I think Seinfeld didn't test well either, and uh, you know,
(19:27):
we only had six episodes to prove ourselves, and we
were kind of at that time also scheduled in kind
of the okay, you're dead. It was in March, and
that's when people said, well, wire shows starting to air
after the you know, prime time fall in mid season shows,
and so we kind of felt like they were just
(19:48):
getting rid of us. So the pilot bombed when it
was tested. Were you concerned about that, yes, because it
was you know at that time, if something tests really bad,
it's d o A, you know, and if it's not
d O A good luck trying to convince your network
that it's a pilot that they should bet on. And
(20:11):
so if not for Kevin Riley, this show would not
have a life. I really do believe that he put
his career on the line. So yeah, we're very concerned,
and I think it's part of the reason why it
tested so poorly. It's just because it was something that
people have never seen before. And those groups that come
(20:33):
in to do the testing, you know, they get paid
seventy five or fifty dollars or whatever, and then they
judge your material based on twenty minutes of something and
tell you if it's good or it's bad. That was
a real learning experience for me and something that I thought,
God if I could And I think when Ben and
(20:55):
I went to NBC, we didn't care so much about testing.
We cared more about instinct. We cared about the shows
that we loved and wanted a program So I think
that came into a full circle as we went from
producer to programmer. That testing serves a certain purpose, but
it shouldn't be the be all hand all of the
success of something. Right. Well, speaking of that, how did
(21:18):
your relationship to the office change when you moved to NBC.
The only thing that changed was that I could be
an even larger advocate for it inside the network. Not
that I needed to be, because at that point, you know,
we were we were just a well oiled machine. You know.
(21:38):
It was interesting because then I became Greg's executive and
to switch from being partner and fighting for certain things
over here and now being you know, I had programmer,
having to fight for certain things that I knew were
in the best interest of the network without interfering with
the integrity of the show. And here's a perfect example.
(21:59):
We want The Office to to air after the super Bowl,
and um, we needed to make sure that if whoever
was watching the super Bowl had never seen The Office before,
that we had to do something completely outrageous to let
people say, oh my god, I have never seen this show.
I love this, I'm staying And Greg had pitched a
(22:22):
cold open, and I remembered saying, you know, this is
kind of cool, but getting a little pressure from Jeff,
you know, and Ben to make sure that we have
some celebrities in there. And you know, we never had
celebrities on our show. It was always about, you know,
making sure that it felt like we were dropping into
(22:44):
a world of just human beings, and in Greg's brilliant fashion,
found a way to bring in celebrities without having the
celebrities feel like they were really a part of the office.
And I challenged him to do the most outrageous cold
open that he could, you know, if people were only
(23:05):
going to see the first minute and a half of
the show. So it was having to you know, maneuver
a little bit differently as becoming a kind of network
person as opposed to his partner on the show. That's fascinating. Yeah,
I never put it within that context that at that moment,
(23:26):
the people that he was having to do this push
and pull for that episode was you guys. I was
the person that would call the network for Greg or
the studio and say he's not doing that, or we're
not changing this or you know, because he did not
like those confrontational moments. And I always said, you want confrontation,
(23:49):
just bring it over to Mama and I'll take care
of it. Now I'm the person on the other end
of the phone getting, you know, well, we want to
do this, we need to do that, uh, you know,
and and giving notes you know, on scripts was crazy,
but it wasn't it was. You know, my instincts didn't
(24:09):
change because I always knew that he was way smarter
than me, and I would, you know, I could only
you know, the one thing that Greg said to me
way back in the beginning when we first started this
relationship and he started developing the show, was what's most
important to me is that you tell me how you feel.
How does the episode make you feel? How did the
(24:30):
relationships of the characters in this episode make you feel?
You know, do you feel moved enough? Do you feel
motivated enough? Do you feel And so I would look
at the scripts and just think about how did it
make me feel. I didn't look at it and say, well,
the structure isn't so much blah la lah. It is
about are we accomplishing this really quiet moment between Jim
(24:53):
and Pam? Is there something going on with the accountants
in the in the corner that we're peeking in on,
you know, with the rest of the offices and seeing
so those little things. Are you feeling them? Are you
picking up on them? It was really about how it
made me feel, and that's how I continued to produce
from that point on. How do characters make me feel,
(25:14):
how do the moments make me feel? I love that
so much. Um Musty TV became a big thing for NBC.
(25:42):
Where do you feel like the Office fit into that
legacy of musty TV comedy on NBC? Oh well, maybe
you know this is um arrogant, but we're integral to
the NBC Thursday lamp. I mean we are integral to
the conversation about what a seminal NBC comedy is. I
(26:07):
absolutely believe that. I believe that we defied all odds
of becoming a successful comedy. Who would have ever thought
we were going to do two d and twenty episodes.
I mean, think about it. We got a five episode
pick up and then we got at episode pickup. Really
we didn't get a full season, so not only define
(26:27):
all of those odds, but also kind of redefining what
a comedy was, you know, on television and introducing people
into a world that might have felt different, but they
also felt like it was so familiar to them and
that you could really you know, because people come to
comedies for two reasons, really to laugh their faces off
(26:52):
and to fall in love with a cast, a family,
a workplace, you know, buddy comedy, whatever, it is. And
I think having the extensive cast that we had, I mean,
what did we have towards the end of the run? Characters?
Fifteen characters? Who does that? And every single one of
you had people who just loved you. Everybody had their fans.
(27:14):
I mean, we got our TV Land Future comedy classic
in season three or four or something. It's right here. Yeah,
so what year is that? Oh my god, there's not
a date on it. Hold on, now there's a date.
It's probably on the other side. Oh, it is tight.
(27:38):
So we were a classic already in season three or four. Yeah, four,
And the fact that we were considered that and look
at it, you know now, I mean, I have young kids.
I went to a kid's of our Mitzvah last year.
They're all thirteen fourteen. I was accosted. It was like
(28:00):
I was a celebrity at this bar Mitzvah because these
kids were obsessed with the show. And we always said
we had a hidden demographic from the beginning that was
under eighteen. But now we have This show has had
a life and then another life and another life. And
I really do believe that we are are a part
of that conversation. What do you remember about the decision
(28:24):
to end the show pain. I hated it. It was
one of the worst memories that I have of our
beautiful love story. It's always hard when you're making decisions
about when you move forward on a show and when
you don't from a business standpoint, which I can't respond
(28:45):
to because I wasn't on that side of the business
at that point, but it was really fucking hard. It
was hard all the conversations we had, you know, from
from being an executive producer, sitting with our cast, talking
to you know, the studio, the network, and it's kind
of a blurn out because I've tried to push it
(29:06):
out of my consciousness, but it was. It was excruciatingly painful,
and um, I think it hurt a lot of us.
I don't know if people really talked about it, but
when we shot the last episode, I was so emotionally
and physically exhausted. I think I cried for the last month,
you know, but when we were all taking that very
(29:27):
last shot. I have a book that NBC made for us.
I'm sure you've looked at it, and my face is
this big, and I'm bright red, and I am crying,
and I couldn't believe that it was over. I felt
like we had so much more to do and it
(29:48):
was over and took a long time to I have
a lot of my own kind of internal things about
the show that you know, I'll you deal with as
a profession and all. It was excruciating, the hard. Yeah,
what are you most proud of about the show? What?
My god, how do I put that in one thing? Dude,
(30:13):
I'm most proud that every single one of us that
were involved in the first season of our show, we
came to work every day and said, if we're only
making six total episodes, let's make the best episodes that
we know how to make, and let's come in here
(30:34):
and do the work and do it with love, and
do it with everything that we have, and do it
for ourselves, you know. And we all showed up on
that lot every single day and made I'm getting emotional
about this, and made an incredibly beautiful show. And it
was for all of us. Whether you were in the cast,
(30:55):
whether you were in the crew, whether you were in accounting,
that you were in props, catering, whatever, everybody came and
just it was like we were on our own island.
I think that we all loved it so much, and
everybody came and did their job and did it really
(31:19):
well and for each other. I could tell you a
million other things, but I think I'm most proud of
that being given that opportunity and making our family. Thenk
you cry. I hope I bought it here. I was
trying to not say anything. I wanted to get your
audio there. No, it was. Yeah, everybody that came in,
(31:45):
I played them a clip and we don't have that
ability here, goddamn it. No, but you'll know it's the
last line of the show. It's Jenna, It's sorry, it's Pam,
and there's beauty and ordinary things. Isn't that kind of
the point. I feel like Greg wrote that episode, He
wrote that last line. That's what he thought it was about.
(32:09):
What did you think it was about? I thought it
was I thought it was too I thought it was
taking something that could have been the most simple and
uninteresting idea about a group of people, you know, going
to work in a dying business, and turning it into
(32:33):
something that was so much bigger than that. It was
bigger than them, it was bigger than us, all of us. Yeah,
it was finding joy and using opportunities to just make
people laugh, you know, and be able to escape the
you know, maybe the dull drums of their own life
(32:56):
and go be with their friends. All of those little
beautiful gems that all of you guys were able to
create every episode. I mean, we can still probably go
back through and I'll see things I never saw before.
And I've seen those things a million times, and that
was the whole idea. You know, everything was calculated to
(33:20):
where Homer Simpson was sitting in the you know, bullpen.
You know, all those everything was perfectly calculated, just two
for fun of people being able to find the little
Easter eggs. That's another thing about Greg. He's like a
grown child. It was juicy, and when he spoke, he
did these things with his hands because it was so fun.
(33:41):
You know. He always just wanted people to have fun
and joy, even if you're an adult, that you could
still just be a kid. Yeah. Is that answer your
question totally? Terry, thank you so much for talking to me.
I really so good to see you. You're so smart.
I hope you stay healthy, and I just appreciate your
(34:03):
time and talking to me about this. First of all,
I'll talk to you about anything, because I love you,
and it's such a joy to be able to kind
of walk back down certain parts of our super long
you know, memory lane. I'm really excited to hear what
(34:24):
everybody else has to say to I know, I know
it's gonna be really cool because I think I get
these questions asked all the time, and so it's nice
that we'd be able. We're able to you know, share it.
So I love that you're doing this and I'm absolutely
thrilled to be a part of it. It's my pleasure. Well,
(34:55):
there you have it, Terry Weinberg. Folks, I truly love
talking about the business side of things, but I have
to say it is always so special to talk to
a producer who feels so passionately about the creative side
of the show as well as Terry clearly does. So
(35:17):
thank you so much for stopping by. Terry, I love you,
um and thanks to all of you for stopping by
as well. I look forward to seeing you next week
for more of our series on the Women of the Office.
We've got some terrific stuff coming your way, So until then,
I hope you have a great week. The Office Deep
(35:45):
Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner
alongside our executive producer Langley. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer.
Our producers are Emily Carr and Diego Tapio, and our
intern is Hannah Harris. My main man in the booth
is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed
(36:06):
by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was
mixed by Seth Olandsky
Host
Brian Baumgartner
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